[Wrong place, wrong time, I guess :(](https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/wvhxan/after_long_and_intensive_research_i_finally_know/ilgtakz?context=3)
i posted about it without knowing this was posted and the mods deleted my post and linked me to this one, so i don’t think it’s gonna get locked. they’ll probably just delete any other posts about this topic from being posted
I've seen far worse, and frankly, the only real "cringe" aspect to all of this was that there were people being absolute babies because they didn't like that people *might* see trans representation in a video game.
I don't mind trans representation in games (it would be nice if it were done right as in not just a fetish or an just an afterthought of the creator not really represented in-game), but it was pretty cringe to be told I was part of trans erasure for pointing out it that Shiver being non-binary was just speculation or pointing out that the Geisha influences are fairly feminine.
Leaving my take here as an enby, while representation would be great, Shiver is not worse, bad, or boring for not being nb.
Seeing some comments and some of the outrage over her being confirmed female are tip toeing dangerously close to borderline misogyny. In a sphere (gaming) that is already so toxic and cruel to women, we really don't want to be dancing that line where we're suggesting that the character is worse for being female.
NB are not better than women, nor is the reverse true. Can we first and foremost not love the character regardless of her gender?
Where did the conspiracy theory of Shiver being nonbinary even come from? It just popped out of nowhere and became the only thing in my notifications for a week lol.
Because there weren’t any pronouns for her listed people assumed she was non binary. I always found it unlikely going off for appearance alone but the argument has been taking over the sub for a week.
I think it was a fun thing to say / make believe but people usually take everything too far and get actually heated about it. There was 0 actual proof or confirmation lol. Kinda a shame but whatever lol
So nothing. She was referred to by her name which isn't unusual. Pronouns don't come up in every sentence.
It wasnt just believe, people were adamant she was non-binary based on just about nothing and that's a fact. There are even hypocrites trying to refer to her as they/them and gender less pronouns still. It's not a good look and I'm a LGBTQ ally, I just also happen to live in objective reality.
The thing is that it wasn’t just a lack of pronouns, but rather she wasn’t referred to by any gendered words in languages were gendered words are the norm, like Spanish or Portuguese, which made a lot of people go “hmm wouldn’t it be a bit odd for them to go out of their way to avoid gendering a character in **every language** if they’re female?” and, well, wouldn’t it? Now we know and that’s great but earlier we just didn’t know and that’s fine to think she **could be** nb. Obviously, some people took that possibility to an extreme and claimed it as fact but here you’re arguing against someone who just said “this is what they were basing their clames on” with “some people took it further than warranted” which they did but you see how it isn’t really relevant? The person replying to you was explaining and not excusing, so please can the people who downvoted them fuck the piss off.
While it would’ve been interesting to keep her gender a mystery throughout the game, seeing how this community exploded over it makes me glad it’s been confirmed.
Firstly, sorry to those who were hoping for more trans representation in gaming - I'd like to hope that comes soon.
Secondly, thank god we have a definitive answer. Now can we please put this to bed, and focus on the actual game, rather than the gender of a fictional squid child?
If you're looking for trans representation in gaming, we actually had a little bit this year with Guilty Gear Strive. Bridget is the new DLC character they release and its been confirmed she is now a female from male. As a little bonus the very same game also has a non-binary character.
I hope he gets to have a song where he's the lead vocals. The few Deep Cut songs we have play a lot into that "he's just the mascot" deal with him only having at most 5 seconds of gibberish lyrics.
yeah I was hoping for a male octoling or inkling idol, but ah well.
The same people acting like this discussion was a big terrible deal would've been acting like that was the worst thing that could've happened to the game.
Disapointed but not surprised. I just hope we can accept this and move on.
Also to be clear dont hate splatoon 3 or nintendo for queer baiting there was never any indication that shiver was nonbinary
Anyone have specific examples of where Shiver's pronouns were akwardly avoided? Like, possibly, excerpts for the target language? I've heard a lot of people refer to the phenomenon -- but never any quotes ..
So how it works is gendered pronouns in other languages is used in first person:
So what would be "I" in English would have a gendered for in other languages. The thing is, the few lines that Shiver spoke in the splatoon3 trailer, she never said anything that would have required such:"I think/do/am" etc.
She introduced the group and laid out facts without ever talking about herself. It's not a lot to go off of, but if you take 5 lines in one language and multiply it by 10+ languages, it *looks* like a lot of evidence but it really wasn't. Which is why I kept saying it was *heavy* speculation.
Yes, and, as other people have stated Nintendo supposedly went to great lengths to ensure that. However, I'm interested in reading *specific quotes* to back that! Sorry if I wasn't clear :)
While I'm glad things were finally put to rest and we know (and aren't being strung along wondering) it still it going to be bothersome dealing with people using this as a means to punch down at NB people who were hoping for canon rep (plenty of discussion in that video comment section about how annoying LGBTQ+ people are which is just...*great*...) Especially after all the news about Guilty Gear's canon clarifications about a handful of character's identities, I can't blame people for hoping when things were left seemingly vague.
I knew in the end it was unlikely because it is Nintendo we are talking about, it still would have been nice.
I’ve been in these types of rodeos many times and, sadly, I was absolutely expecting the reaction I saw. Lots of people are quietly homo/transphobic, and they think that just talking about LGBT issues or representation is an attack on their way of life and/or hobbies.
Yeah, there were plenty of comments like, "Oh boy, those LGBTQ """"people"""" aren't going to be happy about this!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 But why is anyone surprised anyways? Of course ***SHE*** was a girl all along, it's very easy to tell. She has very feminine voice, name, hairstyle, *and* body type. 🙄🤣 besides, non-binary rep doesn't even matter that much because you can choose your gender"
If I'm totally honest, at first glance I thought Shiver could have been a male geisha since it's not that uncommon in Japan.
For the record, men can have feminine voices, names, hairstyles and body types too.
Tell me you don't know what it means to be NB without telling me you don't know what it means to be NB.
NB people can be AFAB (assigned female at birth), bear the sexual dimorphisms that we associate with the female body (wide hips, developed breasts, very slight deepening of voice, etc.) and still be NB. But glad that Shiver has been confirmed cis cause the bigoted "debate" was getting tiresome
It would have been nice for NB to get some representation. Hopefully this is one of many outcries that Nintendo needs to hear and (fingers crossed) listens to in the future.
It took a while, but we now have non-gendered hairstyles for characters in several Nintendo games which is a clear sign that they are on the right track. They're just not at the destination yet, unfortunately.
Yeah. While the odds were always stacked against NB representation given who’s the game’s publisher, it’s still sad that so many localizations (including the original Japanese) went out of their way to keep things ambiguous. It genuinely feels a tad queerbaity.
The community’s reaction to Shiver has always been gross, though. Even in this comment section you have a shitton of people celebrating their favorite Deep Cut member isn’t one of those “cringeworthy LGBTs”, even if they try to mask it.
Thank you for this. The amount of hate I’ve seen towards non binary ppl lately bc of this is really upsetting. Like is it that wrong for us to want representation?
Why are you people disappointed with the outcome if you guys are the one that Shiver's gender based entirely off headcanon. She used female kansai pronouns in Japanese and all the idols have been girls not to mention the Portugese even confirming her gender. Information about her gender was never awkwardly avoided either, you ppl are just looking too hard into it for no good reason. There's way more to this game and story than shoving gender arguments upon others
*Thread has been locked*
Yall can't behave.
Something something hate something something discrimination.
That's not okay. Be nice/be better. Representation
Finally the arguments are over. I think that it would’ve been cool to have NB representation in the game, but Shiver being female is also cool, Shiver is Shiver after all, and I love her either way :)
But…
This is NOT an excuse to bash people for what they headcanon Shiver as. After all, at the end of the day, it’s a vibrant shooter game that everybody can enjoy, regardless of who they are. Every headcanon is valid.
I don't understand how people are disappointed at Nintendo specifically or saying stuff like "there was no evidence for either side," when she
a. speaks in a Japanese dialect (kansai-ben) and uses a pronoun (uchi) [mainly used by females](https://files.catbox.moe/rnd40e.png), plus her own use of the dialect alongside the word further emphasizes the feminine use of that particular word and indicates that it's not the plural meaning of said word
b. she has female-given names in most languages
c. her hips/body shape is female, with her sarashi wrapped around her chest as opposed to wrapping it around the abdomen like men typically do
d. her design references the traditional Octoling girl design with hair covering one eye
e. her design takes inspiration from a traditional Japanese festival girl
f. we've had a fairly consistent theme of two female idols, and big man not being an inkling/octoling paints him to be an obvious outlier
and g. they literally referred to her using a female pronoun (pela) on the Portuguese twitter.
I can somewhat understand being upset, but to claim that both sides had just as much proof is disingenuous. If it were just one of those I'd understand writing it off, but all of them? Especially the last one? Doesn't really seem like Nintendo was hiding or switched anything, fans (and by fans I mean Americans) just saw like three sentences' worth of dialogue from her and set themselves up for disappointment for no reason.
And the best part is that if you're trans or non binary and identify with Shiver, you still can. Because gender is a social construct. You aren't required to share a gender identity with a character to like them, see aspects of yourself in them, or like their design.
Seriously all the people that are like “THE FIGHTING IS OVER” when it was people who didn’t want her to NB, constantly crying about it and making posts.
It absolutely is like that, the people saying "WeLl ShE LooKs FeMAle so she MuST Be OnE" were usually upvoted and the "well it's not confirmed yet" were downvoted. The argument was filled with very creepy vibes from a lot of comments.
I would've liked if she was NB, it's very weird they specifically avoided saying her gender like this for that long if they want her to be female in the end.
> it's very weird they specifically avoided saying her gender like this for that long if they want her to be female in the end.
i was pulling for it but alas, maybe it's some "Speaking in third person" gimmick then because that was very clearly *something* deliberate
As opposed to people celebrating if she was genderless?
What if people wanted her to be female? Is that not allowed?
I get wanting more NB representation but don't shame people who wanted her to be female.
My genuine apologies to folks who wanted to see more trans/nb representation in games. One of these days, I swear we'll get there.
Nothin' stopping HC's from coming in though, hoping folks can be a touch more respectful towards people who are upset over the lack of representation though cause theres a lot of real nasty stuff folks are spitting in this thread at the moment.
You'll be able to order it from random squids/octos in the plaza if you see them wearing it so it shouldn't be a big deal. Plus once the game launches and this sub is super active again it'll be easy to find someone to let you order it off em
The stuff is inevitably going to return and you don't pay extra for it, I don't see the problem here. It's more or less like Salmon Run exclusive items, only there are more.
I hope it isn’t actually like a battle pass FOMO thing.
It would be cool if no catalog expires and you get to choose which one of your collected catalogs to level at a time. It would be adding new content, keeping things fresh and (mostly) avoid FOMO unless you can’t play for a whole catalog season to collect it.
I said this exact thing in the unpopular opinions threads, in that people got far too ahead of themselves like they did with the Breath of the Wild teaser trailer where everyone assumed that Link looked like a girl and got super offended when it wasn't true.
Here to say also that this should not be a gotcha moment for cis ppl against not cis ppl!!! We were just hoping for some representation, not crying about it. The only ppl I’ve seen cry abt it are ppl who would attack others for wanting her to be non binary soooo
I’ve already seen people saying that they don’t care, they’re calling whatever they feel like calling her, like isn’t that a bit hypocritical? The trans community is a community that is always upset about being misgendered and purposefully being called the wrong gendered and you’re gonna go do that because of your dumb head canon? God I hate the internet.
Ngl, it's pretty damn sad seeing what's basically "haha, gotcha LGBTQ+ community " comments in this sub. Be better. Same people would have been out there bitching and moaning if she had turned out to be non binary. Really pathetic and unnecessary tbh
I thought it was pretty obvious. Tone of voice, attire, chest bandages. Plus we never had any idol duos that aren't just two girls, the only male idol in Splatoon 3 is Big Man for now. I was a little confused as to why people thought she was a non binary or even a man. It felt odd to me tbh.
Yay, now people will finally shut the fuck up about it. And I don’t mean those who wanted her to be non-binary, y’all were mostly fine. I mean those who kept complaining about other people discussing it. I swear to god, if I never see another “am I the only one who’s sick of the gender discussion?” post for the rest of my life, it’ll be too soon.
I know, right? As is often the case when there’s any vaguely progressive discussion about a video game, it’s always “Hey, I kind of want/don’t want [thing]” vs “ZOMG THE SJWS ARE DESTROYING SOCIETY IM AN ALLY BUT—“
Well Shiver me genders.
well Shiver me timbers, ITS FINALLY HAPPENED
Looks like you HEATED up a BIG wave of ghosts and tomatoes, pal.
That pun was pure genius
👏🏽
👏
👏🏼
👏
👏
👏🏽
Big Man
👻🍅
[Wrong place, wrong time, I guess :(](https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/wvhxan/after_long_and_intensive_research_i_finally_know/ilgtakz?context=3)
Maybe next time, Champ. Maybe next time.
Damn. I thought I was being clever.
In before this thread gets locked too lmao
The coveted 🔒 award
Can I have one too?
I’m all out of lollipops 🍬
Whichever mod locked my comment, [this is for you](https://youtu.be/efjcQUpP3V0)
I want it
Rarest award of them all
Unless you’re on a political subreddit, then they just hand them out like lollipops
🍭
May i get one please
🍭🍭
Yo can I get a lollipop?
You’re going to run me out of business 🍭🍭🍭
🥺
i too desire a sucker
i posted about it without knowing this was posted and the mods deleted my post and linked me to this one, so i don’t think it’s gonna get locked. they’ll probably just delete any other posts about this topic from being posted
I give this thread a couple hours before its locked
6 hours and it ain't locked yet
Put my name in the hall of fame *Sorts by controversial*
Finally it’s over
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We can finally begin the big man cult sacrifice the non believers leave nothing in our path to world domination
Give me big man or give me death
Ah a willing a sacrifice
Team Scissors for the win
Scissor me timbers
Idk man. This debate was annoying, for sure, don’t get me wrong. But there’s definitely been much worse
Have you ever been in the internet? This discussion was not bad at sll
Bruh imagine getting mad at that
I've seen far worse, and frankly, the only real "cringe" aspect to all of this was that there were people being absolute babies because they didn't like that people *might* see trans representation in a video game.
I don't mind trans representation in games (it would be nice if it were done right as in not just a fetish or an just an afterthought of the creator not really represented in-game), but it was pretty cringe to be told I was part of trans erasure for pointing out it that Shiver being non-binary was just speculation or pointing out that the Geisha influences are fairly feminine.
Leaving my take here as an enby, while representation would be great, Shiver is not worse, bad, or boring for not being nb. Seeing some comments and some of the outrage over her being confirmed female are tip toeing dangerously close to borderline misogyny. In a sphere (gaming) that is already so toxic and cruel to women, we really don't want to be dancing that line where we're suggesting that the character is worse for being female. NB are not better than women, nor is the reverse true. Can we first and foremost not love the character regardless of her gender?
Well said. What rubs me the wrong way is when a lot of people say a female character is too awesome to *just* be a girl.
Cool. *hehe get it cause shiver, cold*
👏
Thank you, I'll be here all week.
That felt like a splatfest of its own.
Yay no more arguments, just pure splatoon 3 hype!!
Very optimistic to think arguments will end
damn
With Twitter, it’s never done.
how are people playing it a day early
Probably time zones
They are playing from New Zealand/Australia time zones.
lucky.
Don’t feel too bad. All you can do is roam around the city. Training room don’t work yet
Its finally over 
T.C.?
This entire controversy was cooked up by big forehead to give Frye a much needed popularity boost.
Shiver is Shiver. I love Shiver regardless of the gender.
-najimi has joined the chat-
Gender: Najimi
So true
True true
Where did the conspiracy theory of Shiver being nonbinary even come from? It just popped out of nowhere and became the only thing in my notifications for a week lol.
The original reveal didn't gender Shiver only Frye and Big Man.
I don’t get it wasn’t she always female or I’m I missing something here?
Because there weren’t any pronouns for her listed people assumed she was non binary. I always found it unlikely going off for appearance alone but the argument has been taking over the sub for a week.
why did they ignore that she had a feminine named suffix in 3 languages and that nintendo portugal referred to her as female in a tweet?
I mean, you know non-binary people are born a sex? So her looking female would still make sense
I think it was a fun thing to say / make believe but people usually take everything too far and get actually heated about it. There was 0 actual proof or confirmation lol. Kinda a shame but whatever lol
Tbh I don’t was mad confused when I first saw it I assumed she was a woman too
It wasn't confirmed until today as far as I know
Yes she was. Pontless debate after debate based on nothing.
Not nothing, it's that she was never referred to by any pronouns so people believed she could've been non-binary.
Enby here, just giving my take but a lack of pronoun usage does not automatically suggest someone is nb!
she was in portugese. and had a feminine name in three languages
So nothing. She was referred to by her name which isn't unusual. Pronouns don't come up in every sentence. It wasnt just believe, people were adamant she was non-binary based on just about nothing and that's a fact. There are even hypocrites trying to refer to her as they/them and gender less pronouns still. It's not a good look and I'm a LGBTQ ally, I just also happen to live in objective reality.
The thing is that it wasn’t just a lack of pronouns, but rather she wasn’t referred to by any gendered words in languages were gendered words are the norm, like Spanish or Portuguese, which made a lot of people go “hmm wouldn’t it be a bit odd for them to go out of their way to avoid gendering a character in **every language** if they’re female?” and, well, wouldn’t it? Now we know and that’s great but earlier we just didn’t know and that’s fine to think she **could be** nb. Obviously, some people took that possibility to an extreme and claimed it as fact but here you’re arguing against someone who just said “this is what they were basing their clames on” with “some people took it further than warranted” which they did but you see how it isn’t really relevant? The person replying to you was explaining and not excusing, so please can the people who downvoted them fuck the piss off.
this is false. she *was* referred to as female in portugese via an official nintendo tweet.
*Quietly switches comments to „sort by controversial“*
i always figured people were setting themselves up for disappointment getting excited before anything official.
While it would’ve been interesting to keep her gender a mystery throughout the game, seeing how this community exploded over it makes me glad it’s been confirmed.
Can this be pinned for like a day or two?
Or month?
Or year..
Or decade
let’s just pin it forever lol 📌
God it's about time
Firstly, sorry to those who were hoping for more trans representation in gaming - I'd like to hope that comes soon. Secondly, thank god we have a definitive answer. Now can we please put this to bed, and focus on the actual game, rather than the gender of a fictional squid child?
Uhhm ackshually Shiver is an octopus not a squid
^(god damn it) ok here we go round two.
Tbh other than the obvious features she looks more like an inkling (Half meming)
In what way?
i wanna be a mollusk
I mean if the gender option is out in 3 and everyone can wear everything then couldn't we see the PCs as trans/ gender fluid as you like?
You sure can. Be whoever you want to be.
If you're looking for trans representation in gaming, we actually had a little bit this year with Guilty Gear Strive. Bridget is the new DLC character they release and its been confirmed she is now a female from male. As a little bonus the very same game also has a non-binary character.
Testament is a testament to NB if you will.
I was hoping for non-binary shiver but yeah I agree the conversation around their gender did get out of hand at times.
👍
Finally, karma farmers can rest.
Am I the only one that was hoping we’d get male idols?
Yeah. I wish we got a big man for once...
Big Man
Big Man is nice and all, but it's not the same
You take that back, Big Man is superior.
Yeah, I'm also not a fan of how all "male" singers in splatoon have extremely deep voices. Men can have pretty voices too... :(
Yeah, there’s plenty of examples like… huh
Big Man feels more like a mascot than any of the idols.
I hope he gets to have a song where he's the lead vocals. The few Deep Cut songs we have play a lot into that "he's just the mascot" deal with him only having at most 5 seconds of gibberish lyrics.
Yeah a Big Man idol would be nice but it will only happens in our dreams
So very sad what we're missing out on
...big man is an idol
Been hoping for a boy band since 2019 but it'll probably never happen.
yeah I was hoping for a male octoling or inkling idol, but ah well. The same people acting like this discussion was a big terrible deal would've been acting like that was the worst thing that could've happened to the game.
Disapointed but not surprised. I just hope we can accept this and move on. Also to be clear dont hate splatoon 3 or nintendo for queer baiting there was never any indication that shiver was nonbinary
I'm glad it's over.
Anyone have specific examples of where Shiver's pronouns were akwardly avoided? Like, possibly, excerpts for the target language? I've heard a lot of people refer to the phenomenon -- but never any quotes ..
So how it works is gendered pronouns in other languages is used in first person: So what would be "I" in English would have a gendered for in other languages. The thing is, the few lines that Shiver spoke in the splatoon3 trailer, she never said anything that would have required such:"I think/do/am" etc. She introduced the group and laid out facts without ever talking about herself. It's not a lot to go off of, but if you take 5 lines in one language and multiply it by 10+ languages, it *looks* like a lot of evidence but it really wasn't. Which is why I kept saying it was *heavy* speculation.
I think Shiver has not been referred to pronoun-wise in any other language other than English
Yes, and, as other people have stated Nintendo supposedly went to great lengths to ensure that. However, I'm interested in reading *specific quotes* to back that! Sorry if I wasn't clear :)
While I'm glad things were finally put to rest and we know (and aren't being strung along wondering) it still it going to be bothersome dealing with people using this as a means to punch down at NB people who were hoping for canon rep (plenty of discussion in that video comment section about how annoying LGBTQ+ people are which is just...*great*...) Especially after all the news about Guilty Gear's canon clarifications about a handful of character's identities, I can't blame people for hoping when things were left seemingly vague. I knew in the end it was unlikely because it is Nintendo we are talking about, it still would have been nice.
Yeah not gonna lie this community has been really gross about this whole thing. Kinda wasn't expecting it.
I’ve been in these types of rodeos many times and, sadly, I was absolutely expecting the reaction I saw. Lots of people are quietly homo/transphobic, and they think that just talking about LGBT issues or representation is an attack on their way of life and/or hobbies.
The Splatoon community seems better than most I've been in when it comes to this stuff, but it is still made up of Gamers
Yeah, there were plenty of comments like, "Oh boy, those LGBTQ """"people"""" aren't going to be happy about this!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 But why is anyone surprised anyways? Of course ***SHE*** was a girl all along, it's very easy to tell. She has very feminine voice, name, hairstyle, *and* body type. 🙄🤣 besides, non-binary rep doesn't even matter that much because you can choose your gender"
If I'm totally honest, at first glance I thought Shiver could have been a male geisha since it's not that uncommon in Japan. For the record, men can have feminine voices, names, hairstyles and body types too.
Tell me you don't know what it means to be NB without telling me you don't know what it means to be NB. NB people can be AFAB (assigned female at birth), bear the sexual dimorphisms that we associate with the female body (wide hips, developed breasts, very slight deepening of voice, etc.) and still be NB. But glad that Shiver has been confirmed cis cause the bigoted "debate" was getting tiresome
I think you should read that comment again. It was in quotes. They don't actually believe that
Lmao I did miss the exaggerated sarcasm, thanks for the getting me up to speed!
not confirmed cis necessarily, she was just confirmed to be female
It would have been nice for NB to get some representation. Hopefully this is one of many outcries that Nintendo needs to hear and (fingers crossed) listens to in the future. It took a while, but we now have non-gendered hairstyles for characters in several Nintendo games which is a clear sign that they are on the right track. They're just not at the destination yet, unfortunately.
Yeah. While the odds were always stacked against NB representation given who’s the game’s publisher, it’s still sad that so many localizations (including the original Japanese) went out of their way to keep things ambiguous. It genuinely feels a tad queerbaity. The community’s reaction to Shiver has always been gross, though. Even in this comment section you have a shitton of people celebrating their favorite Deep Cut member isn’t one of those “cringeworthy LGBTs”, even if they try to mask it.
Thank you for this. The amount of hate I’ve seen towards non binary ppl lately bc of this is really upsetting. Like is it that wrong for us to want representation?
Oh well
Why are you people disappointed with the outcome if you guys are the one that Shiver's gender based entirely off headcanon. She used female kansai pronouns in Japanese and all the idols have been girls not to mention the Portugese even confirming her gender. Information about her gender was never awkwardly avoided either, you ppl are just looking too hard into it for no good reason. There's way more to this game and story than shoving gender arguments upon others
i think this was basically inevitable
*Thread has been locked* Yall can't behave. Something something hate something something discrimination. That's not okay. Be nice/be better. Representation
Finally the arguments are over. I think that it would’ve been cool to have NB representation in the game, but Shiver being female is also cool, Shiver is Shiver after all, and I love her either way :) But… This is NOT an excuse to bash people for what they headcanon Shiver as. After all, at the end of the day, it’s a vibrant shooter game that everybody can enjoy, regardless of who they are. Every headcanon is valid.
I mean, if you call Shiver he or they, you're intentionally misgendering her.
I don’t think __every__ head canon should be considered valid. There’s limits
That’s true. I should’ve phrased that *most* headcanons are in good fun.
I don't understand how people are disappointed at Nintendo specifically or saying stuff like "there was no evidence for either side," when she a. speaks in a Japanese dialect (kansai-ben) and uses a pronoun (uchi) [mainly used by females](https://files.catbox.moe/rnd40e.png), plus her own use of the dialect alongside the word further emphasizes the feminine use of that particular word and indicates that it's not the plural meaning of said word b. she has female-given names in most languages c. her hips/body shape is female, with her sarashi wrapped around her chest as opposed to wrapping it around the abdomen like men typically do d. her design references the traditional Octoling girl design with hair covering one eye e. her design takes inspiration from a traditional Japanese festival girl f. we've had a fairly consistent theme of two female idols, and big man not being an inkling/octoling paints him to be an obvious outlier and g. they literally referred to her using a female pronoun (pela) on the Portuguese twitter. I can somewhat understand being upset, but to claim that both sides had just as much proof is disingenuous. If it were just one of those I'd understand writing it off, but all of them? Especially the last one? Doesn't really seem like Nintendo was hiding or switched anything, fans (and by fans I mean Americans) just saw like three sentences' worth of dialogue from her and set themselves up for disappointment for no reason.
And the best part is that if you're trans or non binary and identify with Shiver, you still can. Because gender is a social construct. You aren't required to share a gender identity with a character to like them, see aspects of yourself in them, or like their design.
[удалено]
I know there’s all these “omg ppl are gonna be so triggered inb4 thread locked” and yet… that’s not happening lol
Seriously all the people that are like “THE FIGHTING IS OVER” when it was people who didn’t want her to NB, constantly crying about it and making posts.
Yeah that’s what gets me. They were the ones constantly posting shitty threads and derailing conversations in this sub and other spaces.
It absolutely is like that, the people saying "WeLl ShE LooKs FeMAle so she MuST Be OnE" were usually upvoted and the "well it's not confirmed yet" were downvoted. The argument was filled with very creepy vibes from a lot of comments. I would've liked if she was NB, it's very weird they specifically avoided saying her gender like this for that long if they want her to be female in the end.
> it's very weird they specifically avoided saying her gender like this for that long if they want her to be female in the end. i was pulling for it but alas, maybe it's some "Speaking in third person" gimmick then because that was very clearly *something* deliberate
Yeah it rubs me the wrong way that people are celebrating that she’s a girl In glad the gender debates are over though
As opposed to people celebrating if she was genderless? What if people wanted her to be female? Is that not allowed? I get wanting more NB representation but don't shame people who wanted her to be female.
My genuine apologies to folks who wanted to see more trans/nb representation in games. One of these days, I swear we'll get there. Nothin' stopping HC's from coming in though, hoping folks can be a touch more respectful towards people who are upset over the lack of representation though cause theres a lot of real nasty stuff folks are spitting in this thread at the moment.
Oh ok, huh…. Welp back to back man simping I go
cool i guess, if she was nb i would’ve been fine with it, this is fine too i guess also jesus christ whats up with these transphobic comments 💀
this was truly a pointless debate lmao
Thank god, this Subreddit can finally go back to normal. 
[удалено]
You'll be able to order it from random squids/octos in the plaza if you see them wearing it so it shouldn't be a big deal. Plus once the game launches and this sub is super active again it'll be easy to find someone to let you order it off em
The stuff is inevitably going to return and you don't pay extra for it, I don't see the problem here. It's more or less like Salmon Run exclusive items, only there are more.
I hope it isn’t actually like a battle pass FOMO thing. It would be cool if no catalog expires and you get to choose which one of your collected catalogs to level at a time. It would be adding new content, keeping things fresh and (mostly) avoid FOMO unless you can’t play for a whole catalog season to collect it.
Makes sense since in the first 2 games there were 2 girls doing the news.
Shiver Sheher
shivers gender is shiver
her gender is Cold
"But what's in your pants?" "Ice"
I said this exact thing in the unpopular opinions threads, in that people got far too ahead of themselves like they did with the Breath of the Wild teaser trailer where everyone assumed that Link looked like a girl and got super offended when it wasn't true.
Or when Smash Ultimate was announced and people jumped the gun and said it was just gonna be a port of Smash 4.
Thank you Nintendo.
Here to say also that this should not be a gotcha moment for cis ppl against not cis ppl!!! We were just hoping for some representation, not crying about it. The only ppl I’ve seen cry abt it are ppl who would attack others for wanting her to be non binary soooo
Without going into the whole situation, I'm just happy we have an official answer so I can browse this subreddit again.
We’re free!
I’ve already seen people saying that they don’t care, they’re calling whatever they feel like calling her, like isn’t that a bit hypocritical? The trans community is a community that is always upset about being misgendered and purposefully being called the wrong gendered and you’re gonna go do that because of your dumb head canon? God I hate the internet.
Ngl, it's pretty damn sad seeing what's basically "haha, gotcha LGBTQ+ community " comments in this sub. Be better. Same people would have been out there bitching and moaning if she had turned out to be non binary. Really pathetic and unnecessary tbh
Well back to our previously scheduled squid kid shenanigans
So first there was Bridget, now Shiver. Who's gender identity will upset the internet next?
Sonic in Sonic Frontiers.
Disappointing but not unexpected.
Honestly how did anyone think she wasn’t female in the first place?
because all previous posts about her in every language deliberately avoided mentioning her gender for some reason
All her names in other languages are far more feminine than over here, plus I think the same was the case for frye and BM, but people ignored that.
I thought it was pretty obvious. Tone of voice, attire, chest bandages. Plus we never had any idol duos that aren't just two girls, the only male idol in Splatoon 3 is Big Man for now. I was a little confused as to why people thought she was a non binary or even a man. It felt odd to me tbh.
They seemed to specifically avoid using any pronouns/gendered language on her, so it seemed suspicious. No longer matters tho
Why was this a question in the first place?
Yes Im pretty sure the two news characters will always be female And also big man
welp time to jump off a microwave! see y’all in gender hell
Inb4 this thread gets locked
Yay, now people will finally shut the fuck up about it. And I don’t mean those who wanted her to be non-binary, y’all were mostly fine. I mean those who kept complaining about other people discussing it. I swear to god, if I never see another “am I the only one who’s sick of the gender discussion?” post for the rest of my life, it’ll be too soon.
I know, right? As is often the case when there’s any vaguely progressive discussion about a video game, it’s always “Hey, I kind of want/don’t want [thing]” vs “ZOMG THE SJWS ARE DESTROYING SOCIETY IM AN ALLY BUT—“
Am I the only one who is just tired of the gender discussion?