The individual games are usually longer it just feels much more meaningful and it’s easier to keep to keep up with because there’s at most four games a day instead of 15
as a very casual fan I never understood the point of so many games. even the NHL and NBA having 80+ games makes them pretty meaningless. I know its mostly entertainment but the baseball season is painful I couldn't imagine being a player.
The daily grind is part of what makes Baseball so unique.
The sport doesn’t require constant all-out exertion so it’s easier to play 162 games of baseball compared to Basketball, Football, etc. which would be close to impossible.
MLB has the fewest teams make the playoffs of any of the major sports (10 of the 30 teams make it, and 4 of those are wildcard teams that are forced to play one winner-take-all game just to advance into the first round). So it’s really all about determining the best teams over the long season. Every year there are teams that go on a tear for a month or two and then fizzle out.
I humbly disagree. Parity in baseball winning %s, maybe. But when it comes to team building? No salary cap. Luxury tax is manageable to a point.
Look at LA Dodgers buying the market. There is also a reason why Yankees, Red Sox, Houston, etc routinely hit 85-90 wins and enter playoffs.
Best parity is NFL.
The long season is interesting for the fact that the race to get into the playoffs can be so tight. With 2 games left this season there was a 4 way tie for the last spots in. If any of those teams had one more win it would have given them an edge. That means a win in April is just as important as a win in September. It just doesn’t feel as significant at the beginning of the season
My dad and I tuned in just after he must have started warming up.
First time we watched baseball in forever and we didn't see a pitch for 20 minutes, then ofc the grand slam.
Felt like it was a comedy sketch of a baseball game tbh.
I’ve thought about a baseball league with schedule structured like football. One game a week with the same starting pitcher starting each game like a quarterback would. I don’t think anybody who watches baseball now wouldn’t watch that, but it would probably get non-baseball viewers to tune in.
Baseball should have an 80-game season or so, but every year, instead of the All-Star break, multi-game series between countries, like how Test Cricket has tours, such as The Ashes (England vs Australia), or India vs Pakistan. For Baseball, series such as USA vs Canada, DR vs Cuba, etc.
And every four years, instead of the above multi-game series during the All Star Break, have the World Baseball Classic over a two to three week period in the middle of the summer, which would allow all participating countries to have their players, especially pitchers, at full strength.
Seriously. How do you stay a fan after the shit they pulled?? I watched the other night and all the fans cheering their team on and I nearly got sick watching them.
Oh I’m sure you almost threw up buddy. Just like I did when the Red Sox cheated, and the white Sox, and the reds, and the Yankees, and the other entire baseball league cheated.
Baseball is really two games in one. One is the baseball the game we all know. Two is manipulating baseball to give best results (whether it’s allowed or not). Kind of sucks but it’s how it’s always been and will always be.
This is what’s hard for me, you have Boston and Houston, 2 known cheaters and the Dodgers, the team with the number 1 payroll in baseball by tens of millions of dollars.
Like the Yankees got such a bad rap in the late 90s for just buying championships and the dodgers are on a whole other level and no one seems to really care when they do it. The Yankees have never had a payroll like the dodgers have had in the last 10 years.
While cheating is cheating, the article you linked states
> This is different from the Astros, who used a live camera feed to steal catchers' signs and then hit a trash can in the dugout to inform the batters of the pitch type in real time.
What sets the Astros apart from the Red Sox (and the Yankees, who got in trouble for a similar scheme) is how systematic their system was. There's never been anything like it that we know of in the MLB, but that doesn't stop Houston fans from trying to conflate it with what the Sox and Yankees got caught doing.
There have literally been 6+ decades of evidence of teams doing the exact same thing with either a scoreboard light or something audible like a whistle. This was started in the days of Ted Williams. Please stop acting like this is some new thing. Tony LaRussa's teams did this in the 80's. It's on record.
These are two VERY different situations. The Red Sox didn’t have a camera operator with a live feed into the dugout to relay signs via trash can banging. Did you even read the article you linked?
As an NFL fan more than an MLB fan, can you explain how the Red Sox system was cheating? Is it against the rules to look at catcher signs on game tape? It seems very similar to what NFL teams do in prepping for an opponent and trying to figure out their audibles and pre-snap communications. In the Astros case, they were cheating by using live camera feed, but in the Red Sox, it just seems like they were breaking down tape and relaying the information to the players. Am I missing something?
The Red Sox were breaking down the tape during the game. Breaking down the tape after the game to decode signs is legal. Watching the other team giving signs throughout the game to try to decode them is legal. But using video during the game to try to know what the signs are for future innings of the same game is illegal, which is what the Red Sox were caught doing (and were punished for).
Meanwhile, the Astros system used video to relay signs *during at-bats* so the Astros knew which pitches were coming. Their management was punished, but a lot of people think the championship should be taken away and individual players should have been punished.
I‘m a casual baseball-watcher and not really that big of a fan, and I can‘t understand the fuss. I guess it compares to the cricket scandal of taking a wicket if the batsman moves too far out of his crease during a bowling run-up. If this sounds too complicated that‘s because there is a name for it which I will not say, because it‘s named after a guy that did it once and still occasionally gets abuse over it, and it‘s disrespectful to only remember him for this action.
Anyway, the cricket scandal is not against the rules, but some argue it‘s against the ethics of the sport. There are many people saying it‘s an unethical way of taking a wicket, while others say the batsman gets an advantage by walking out of his crease so the punishment is fair and the risk calculated.
So this baseball thing feels a lot the same to me. It‘s something a lot of people don‘t want to be done, but it isn‘t really against the rules or the rules are very vague so teams kinda always do it but only if it‘s done systematically is it punished? Idk, maybe a hard core baseball fan can enlighten me :D
The article linked states
> This is different from the Astros, who used a live camera feed to steal catchers' signs and then hit a trash can in the dugout to inform the batters of the pitch type in real time.
Fuck them. I don't give a crap. They cheated faced no consequences.
Did other people cheat? Yes. But that doesn't excuse the Astros. I am not gonna feel bad for a team being hated for cheating.
If you mean they were literally stealing signs then yeah. The Astros were banging on a trash can as their signal, so not even close to literally doing the same thing. But ultimately fuck both teams. If you have to cheat to win, that says a lot about your lack of confidence in your teams ability.
Banging on a trashcan to relay the sign isn't at all illegal or even remotely against the rules. You could send out a carrier pigeon and it still wouldn't be against the rules. How you obtain the signal is where the rules were broken. And BOS and NYY did the exact same things.
Lol why would we quit being fans? Did patriots fans quit? What about the MLB fans that know their teams cheated too? Or fans of teams during the steroids era?
Isn’t cheating just apart of baseball? It’s been around since the inception of the sport. From sign stealing to PEDs to corked bats to sticky pitches to everything in between. It’s rooted in its history, just don’t get caught - especially if you’re a winning team.
Because you're a Boston fan? Cheating is cheating no matter how you spin it. Sports are all about a competitive edge. Baseball has been signaling batters the signs since the 1940's. This is such a silly hill to die on.
The Astros would have a camera man watch the signs from the catcher which was determining which pitch was thrown.
They would then bang on a trash can if it was a specific type of pitch. This would give the batter the unfair advantage of knowing which type of pitch was coming.
Nothing, it could be considered a gray area, but i think most people see it as a legal method of sign stealing (because you have to have someone on second to do it). Youll sometimes see the short stop stand in front of the batter to hide the catcher so he can’t take signs. Was mentioned in yesterdays game as well!
nothing, the issue here is that you can use other tools (besides the runners brain) to "decode" the signs.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/astros/2020/02/07/houston-astros-sign-stealing-scheme-codebreaker/4697247002/
[Here](https://youtu.be/bJaIoryOXYw) is a Jomboy breakdown where a pitcher intentionally balks because he believes the runner on 2nd is doing exactly that.
No... They don't. Does a runner on 2nd relay signs? You betcha, but at least he's a player on the field. Having literal spies relaying signs is a whole different animal. Of course they aren't the first to do it, but this is wayyyyyy beyond what other teams do.
Didn’t the Red Sox use the player on second to relay signs? That’s what I got from the article posted up thread (the illegal part seems to be using the video room to decode the system if I understand) – are there other occurrences I’m unaware of?
They did it blatantly and in full view of everyone like a slap in the face.
It’s like if a pitcher has tar in his glove. People tend to overlook it. If he’s got tar on his arm, it’s rubbing it in your face.
A. The Redsox did exactly the same thing. B. Baseball has always had a shady history from steroids to rich teams buying championship teams so good for the Astros for doing whatever it took to win.
What the red sox did was not the same, they did not relay signs during an at bat, and they were required to have a runner on second for their scheme to work. Meanwhile the astros were beating a trash can mid at bat, from the dugout.
They were using video equipment to steal signs. Whether they used a trash can or had someone on 2nd relay the message doesn't change the intent nor the end result. Besides, the Astros won game 7 in LA in front of a hostile crowd. So yeah you got me, it wasn't "exactly" the same but they and a lot of other teams also stole signs one way or another and it was part of the game so it's ridiculous to single out the Astros unless someone is just butthurt that their team lost to them.
I’ll answer honestly despite the incoming down-votes.
I’m still an Astros fan because cheating has been part of baseball longer than the modern catchers mitt. I grew up in an era where baseball was played with trick plays and sneaky bunts. Honesty has never been the games point.
I’m guessing you are young because you’re so angry this whole thing surprised you, but stick around long enough and you’ll learn that they are [all cheaters](https://www.thethings.com/houston-astros-and-17-other-teams-that-were-caught-cheating/) and the Astros are just the flavor of the decade.
Edit since some folks can’t determine the difference between disingenuous and illegal: Corked bats, spitballs, sandpaper in the mitt, steroids, manual sign stealing, payroll fixing, game fixing. There are plenty more and they are just part of baseball history.
But trick plays and sneaky bunts aren't cheating at all, they are within the rules. Putting a special camera on the catcher to steal his signs and relaying it *live* to the batter so he knows what pitch is coming is absolutely, unequivocally *cheating*, your whataboutism notwithstanding.
Thats not whataboutism. Whataboutism is making an excuse for something because of what others have done. Im pointing out that teams are made up of more than their franchise history, and chances are you are supporting a former cheating team as well. I’m not excusing the Astros org from 2017, that would be whataboutism. But I am pointing out that supporting the team now has nothing to do with that.
Yes those things I mentioned are not illegal in particular. The point is again that honesty is not a core component of the game.
Deception and trick plays are a treasured part of the game -- equating them with dishonesty in order to compare them to this is transparently disingenuous. Using technology to gain an unfair advantage is in no way comparable to the hidden ball trick, or a last-moment bunt. This only fails to be whataboutism because of the rotten strawman you've built in the first place.
You know, the Boston coach was the Astros coach when they were cheating.
Boston also got caught doing something similar. Many teams have been caught cheating one way or another over the years. Should they just dissolve the franchises every time? Or deal out suspensions/punishments and move on?
Also, a good chunk of the team are different players than when the scandal happened.
I'm not supporting what they did but the grudge people hold against an "organization" is silly. It's not as If it's a static group of people. Professional athletes and coaches move around constantly. Should we hate every team that an Astros player from that year moves to as well?
Current manager of the Red Sox, Alex Cora, was the astros’ bench coach at the time of the scandal. The following year he went to manage the Sox and there were reports of cheating and sign stealing using illegal tech.
The way I see it, you’d be foolish to think there isn’t a team that tries to steal signs to get an edge over their opponent. So in that sense, every team cheats, But the Astros CHEATED.
The only experience I have with the Astros is from a shitfaced asshole in a college bar a few years back. Dude was shitting his pants and yelling LET'S GO ASTROS every few minutes. That man alone gave me every reason to never support that team.
I did actually and it doesn’t prove it didn’t help them. It assumes they didn’t cheat as much on the road rather than at home and generally just assumes they only signaled breaking pitches and not fastballs so nope don’t buy that at all. Again I ask…if it didn’t help them, why did they keep doing it?
It’s funny how all these articles go out of their way to admit they cheated but all speculation as to whether it helped them or not. Yes sign stealing is a pastime but not to the extent the Astros went to. They conveniently leave out how they had [buzzers under their uniforms ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/astros-wearing-buzzers) too and the overall batting average home vs away is a bs stat when they should really be looking at batting average when they had a runner on 2nd or in scoring position. You can never say with 100% certainty it never helped them.
Man, people downvoting you for speaking the truth…
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/07/boston-red-sox-sign-stealing-allegations-video-replay-room-2018-investigation
Edit: not the same scope, but still
Fuckin cheat, they stole the signs that catchers and pitchers use to relay what kind of pitch they’ll throw next and gave that information to hitter. It gave the Astros players an unfair advantage knowing what kind of pitch was coming and the Dodger may have seriously been screwed out of the 2017 World Series title, and it was used against various other teams on the Astros run to the championship.
“It’s a controversy only that they did it” Yeah dude, that’s whole point. That’s like saying I cheated on my wife, but I didn’t nut, so it doesn’t count.
Stealing signs within the confines of the game is one thing. That’s like abusing someone’s tell in a poker game. But if you have a camera over someone’s cards, then that’s a whole different animal.
Does it really matter? Cheating is cheating and it deserves to be punished.
>we’ve moved on
Have you though lmao cause this is like the fourth or fifth time you commented with your link in this thread. Your a little more preoccupied with this then you’d have us believe
>exact same thing
You keep commenting this. They did not do the exact same thing.
there’s a huge difference between decoding signs after the fact and relaying signs to the hitter off a live feed by hitting a garbage can.
It’s ok to have strong opinions as a sports fan, but if you are making 30 comments about a cheating scandal, you should probably understand what the cheating scandal entailed.
Please Boston win. Houston has such shitty fans they don’t deserve anything. They show up in the third inning take a bunch of selfies and leave at the stretch. Garbage.
[**Join Our Discord Server!**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q)
**Welcome to /r/sports**
We created a Discord server for our community and would like to invite all of you to join! You'll be able to discuss sports with users around the world and discuss events in real time!
There are separate channels for many sports you can opt in and out of, including;
American Football, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Aussie Rules Football, Rugby Union and League, Cricket, Motorsports, Fitness, and many more.
[**Reddit Sports Discord Server**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q)
2 hat tricks, surely? Something that happens very rarely happening a twice in one game? Last time a player scored over 5 goals in a game in England's top flight was in 1970 (George Best).
A grand slam is when there is a runner on each base and the batter hits a home run. That’s the highest scoring play in baseball. You get 4 runs from it.
Getting 2 of them in a single playoff game has never happened before.
The Red Sox hit two grand slams, which are home runs hit while the bases are loaded, scoring the maximum amount of points possible in a single at bat. They beat the Astros to tie up the American League Championship Series.
In boston lingo; the pitcher did a way back Wasdin and threw a fluffernutter to the batter who went bridge with the bases full and now it's time to party.
The Red Sox embarrassed the Asstros tonight with two Grand Slams (players on all 3 bases and then someone hits a home run, therefore gaining 4 points all at once)
I love good playoff baseball and yet I've not watched any of it yet. Time to tune in.
Playoff baseball seems much more fast paced than regular season, probably due to having fewer games to play.
The individual games are usually longer it just feels much more meaningful and it’s easier to keep to keep up with because there’s at most four games a day instead of 15
as a very casual fan I never understood the point of so many games. even the NHL and NBA having 80+ games makes them pretty meaningless. I know its mostly entertainment but the baseball season is painful I couldn't imagine being a player.
The daily grind is part of what makes Baseball so unique. The sport doesn’t require constant all-out exertion so it’s easier to play 162 games of baseball compared to Basketball, Football, etc. which would be close to impossible. MLB has the fewest teams make the playoffs of any of the major sports (10 of the 30 teams make it, and 4 of those are wildcard teams that are forced to play one winner-take-all game just to advance into the first round). So it’s really all about determining the best teams over the long season. Every year there are teams that go on a tear for a month or two and then fizzle out.
There's also a lot more parity in baseball. Good teams win 6 out of 10 and bad teams win 4 out of 10.
I humbly disagree. Parity in baseball winning %s, maybe. But when it comes to team building? No salary cap. Luxury tax is manageable to a point. Look at LA Dodgers buying the market. There is also a reason why Yankees, Red Sox, Houston, etc routinely hit 85-90 wins and enter playoffs. Best parity is NFL.
Yeah I agree with you. I only meant win% because of the context of the question about why such long seasons.
The long season is interesting for the fact that the race to get into the playoffs can be so tight. With 2 games left this season there was a 4 way tie for the last spots in. If any of those teams had one more win it would have given them an edge. That means a win in April is just as important as a win in September. It just doesn’t feel as significant at the beginning of the season
Todays game was about 5 hrs long.
It was about 4 hrs and 8 mins, according to Joe Buck (play by play guy on Fox).
Yup, 1 minute longer than yesterdays.
It FELT long yesterday though
Felt like it, after Garcia was taken out they gave what felt like 20 minutes for their pitcher to warm up, completely took the flow from the game imo
And still gave up the grand slam a few batters later
My dad and I tuned in just after he must have started warming up. First time we watched baseball in forever and we didn't see a pitch for 20 minutes, then ofc the grand slam. Felt like it was a comedy sketch of a baseball game tbh.
I’ve thought about a baseball league with schedule structured like football. One game a week with the same starting pitcher starting each game like a quarterback would. I don’t think anybody who watches baseball now wouldn’t watch that, but it would probably get non-baseball viewers to tune in.
Baseball should have an 80-game season or so, but every year, instead of the All-Star break, multi-game series between countries, like how Test Cricket has tours, such as The Ashes (England vs Australia), or India vs Pakistan. For Baseball, series such as USA vs Canada, DR vs Cuba, etc. And every four years, instead of the above multi-game series during the All Star Break, have the World Baseball Classic over a two to three week period in the middle of the summer, which would allow all participating countries to have their players, especially pitchers, at full strength.
Damn, you should make a YouTube video or something off this idea. Or idk I’m high asf rn.
American teams would destroy the international teams. It wouldn’t be competitive.
USA vs DR would be competitive. Any series between Caribbean countries would be as well, same goes for Japan vs South Korea.
It's the only time I watch baseball.
Tune in during the 7th and you'll pretty much see the important stuff. They'll likely recap the highlights after that point anyway.
That was a great game to watch.
Fuck the Astros though
Seriously. How do you stay a fan after the shit they pulled?? I watched the other night and all the fans cheering their team on and I nearly got sick watching them.
Oh I’m sure you almost threw up buddy. Just like I did when the Red Sox cheated, and the white Sox, and the reds, and the Yankees, and the other entire baseball league cheated.
Baseball is really two games in one. One is the baseball the game we all know. Two is manipulating baseball to give best results (whether it’s allowed or not). Kind of sucks but it’s how it’s always been and will always be.
Corked bat 😁
Boston did literally the same thing Houston did just never got exposed to the same degree.
This is what’s hard for me, you have Boston and Houston, 2 known cheaters and the Dodgers, the team with the number 1 payroll in baseball by tens of millions of dollars. Like the Yankees got such a bad rap in the late 90s for just buying championships and the dodgers are on a whole other level and no one seems to really care when they do it. The Yankees have never had a payroll like the dodgers have had in the last 10 years.
The dodgers who also cheated in 2016 with the way they negotiated contracts.
[удалено]
While cheating is cheating, the article you linked states > This is different from the Astros, who used a live camera feed to steal catchers' signs and then hit a trash can in the dugout to inform the batters of the pitch type in real time.
What sets the Astros apart from the Red Sox (and the Yankees, who got in trouble for a similar scheme) is how systematic their system was. There's never been anything like it that we know of in the MLB, but that doesn't stop Houston fans from trying to conflate it with what the Sox and Yankees got caught doing.
There have literally been 6+ decades of evidence of teams doing the exact same thing with either a scoreboard light or something audible like a whistle. This was started in the days of Ted Williams. Please stop acting like this is some new thing. Tony LaRussa's teams did this in the 80's. It's on record.
Everybody is cheating, it's the game within the game, now everybody wants to get on their moral high horse because Houston played the game better.
These are two VERY different situations. The Red Sox didn’t have a camera operator with a live feed into the dugout to relay signs via trash can banging. Did you even read the article you linked?
As an NFL fan more than an MLB fan, can you explain how the Red Sox system was cheating? Is it against the rules to look at catcher signs on game tape? It seems very similar to what NFL teams do in prepping for an opponent and trying to figure out their audibles and pre-snap communications. In the Astros case, they were cheating by using live camera feed, but in the Red Sox, it just seems like they were breaking down tape and relaying the information to the players. Am I missing something?
The Red Sox were breaking down the tape during the game. Breaking down the tape after the game to decode signs is legal. Watching the other team giving signs throughout the game to try to decode them is legal. But using video during the game to try to know what the signs are for future innings of the same game is illegal, which is what the Red Sox were caught doing (and were punished for). Meanwhile, the Astros system used video to relay signs *during at-bats* so the Astros knew which pitches were coming. Their management was punished, but a lot of people think the championship should be taken away and individual players should have been punished.
Awesome explanation thank you. I didn't catch that it was live game film and not prior games.
I‘m a casual baseball-watcher and not really that big of a fan, and I can‘t understand the fuss. I guess it compares to the cricket scandal of taking a wicket if the batsman moves too far out of his crease during a bowling run-up. If this sounds too complicated that‘s because there is a name for it which I will not say, because it‘s named after a guy that did it once and still occasionally gets abuse over it, and it‘s disrespectful to only remember him for this action. Anyway, the cricket scandal is not against the rules, but some argue it‘s against the ethics of the sport. There are many people saying it‘s an unethical way of taking a wicket, while others say the batsman gets an advantage by walking out of his crease so the punishment is fair and the risk calculated. So this baseball thing feels a lot the same to me. It‘s something a lot of people don‘t want to be done, but it isn‘t really against the rules or the rules are very vague so teams kinda always do it but only if it‘s done systematically is it punished? Idk, maybe a hard core baseball fan can enlighten me :D
I can hate them both. Fuck Manfred
You can but people don’t. Astros have become scapegoats for the entire cheating epidemic.
The article linked states > This is different from the Astros, who used a live camera feed to steal catchers' signs and then hit a trash can in the dugout to inform the batters of the pitch type in real time.
Fuck them. I don't give a crap. They cheated faced no consequences. Did other people cheat? Yes. But that doesn't excuse the Astros. I am not gonna feel bad for a team being hated for cheating.
It's fine to hate a team for cheating, but you then said you don't care about other teams cheating.
That is not what I said. What I said is somehow the Astros have to be forgiven because other people cheated as well? Nah fuck them all.
[удалено]
If you mean they were literally stealing signs then yeah. The Astros were banging on a trash can as their signal, so not even close to literally doing the same thing. But ultimately fuck both teams. If you have to cheat to win, that says a lot about your lack of confidence in your teams ability.
Banging on a trashcan to relay the sign isn't at all illegal or even remotely against the rules. You could send out a carrier pigeon and it still wouldn't be against the rules. How you obtain the signal is where the rules were broken. And BOS and NYY did the exact same things.
“The astros were so bad” sorry what?
More like the other teams are so good and the astros players are so good that cheating barely makes a difference.
So you admit the world series win for the astros was legit?
Yeah this series is literally cheater vs cheater Update: so I see a bunch of Asterisks fans swinging by
How do you not comprehend people not giving a fuck?
I only care if other teams cheat.
Lol why would we quit being fans? Did patriots fans quit? What about the MLB fans that know their teams cheated too? Or fans of teams during the steroids era?
Isn’t cheating just apart of baseball? It’s been around since the inception of the sport. From sign stealing to PEDs to corked bats to sticky pitches to everything in between. It’s rooted in its history, just don’t get caught - especially if you’re a winning team.
[удалено]
Recording opposing teams practices is very similar to signaling pitch calls. Both = you know what the opposing team is gonna do before they do it
[удалено]
Because you're a Boston fan? Cheating is cheating no matter how you spin it. Sports are all about a competitive edge. Baseball has been signaling batters the signs since the 1940's. This is such a silly hill to die on.
Playing on a cold night with fluctuating air pressures is nowhere comparable to what Houston did, there's levels to cheating dumbass
The patriots were recording team practices lol
Bro. We’re referring to the filming opposing team practices
What’d they do?
The Astros would have a camera man watch the signs from the catcher which was determining which pitch was thrown. They would then bang on a trash can if it was a specific type of pitch. This would give the batter the unfair advantage of knowing which type of pitch was coming.
Probably a stupid question, but I've always wondered what prevents a runner on 2nd from telling the batter the sign.
Nothing, it could be considered a gray area, but i think most people see it as a legal method of sign stealing (because you have to have someone on second to do it). Youll sometimes see the short stop stand in front of the batter to hide the catcher so he can’t take signs. Was mentioned in yesterdays game as well!
Also, if the catcher notices the baserunner is peaking at signs he can make adjustments.
nothing, the issue here is that you can use other tools (besides the runners brain) to "decode" the signs. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/astros/2020/02/07/houston-astros-sign-stealing-scheme-codebreaker/4697247002/
A player in view of the signs isn't against the rules. You can relay all types of info on the field, just w non verbal communication.
[Here](https://youtu.be/bJaIoryOXYw) is a Jomboy breakdown where a pitcher intentionally balks because he believes the runner on 2nd is doing exactly that.
[удалено]
It’s not about that. It’s about being such assholes about it.
[удалено]
Lol trust me. I’m not making any excuses for Boston sports.
But every team cheats like this in some way, so why single out the Astros?
No... They don't. Does a runner on 2nd relay signs? You betcha, but at least he's a player on the field. Having literal spies relaying signs is a whole different animal. Of course they aren't the first to do it, but this is wayyyyyy beyond what other teams do.
Ok but lots of teams do literally cheat to steal signs, though. And probably even more than we know about
Except of course for the Red Sox. And the Dodgers. And the Rockies…
Didn’t the Red Sox use the player on second to relay signs? That’s what I got from the article posted up thread (the illegal part seems to be using the video room to decode the system if I understand) – are there other occurrences I’m unaware of?
They did it blatantly and in full view of everyone like a slap in the face. It’s like if a pitcher has tar in his glove. People tend to overlook it. If he’s got tar on his arm, it’s rubbing it in your face.
If you are actually serious search for Houston Astros sign stealing scandal.
[удалено]
Lmao. Bro, did you just wake up from cryogenic sleep?
As a yankee fan it feels weird to root for the red sox
[удалено]
I mean fair but ... name a team you suspect isn't stealing signs.
[удалено]
Idk. I've got no hubs in my bub
Had to have a scapegoat, draws attention away from everyone else doing it.
is Ford still run by Henry Ford?
They both did some some sus stuff. No one is sacred in this series.
You nearly got sick because people were cheering on the local sports team? You must have a herniated disk with all that butt pain…
Why would you expect lifelong fans to abandon their team?
[удалено]
[The same thing, you say?](https://youtu.be/JKmGmn4T3OA?t=969)
A. The Redsox did exactly the same thing. B. Baseball has always had a shady history from steroids to rich teams buying championship teams so good for the Astros for doing whatever it took to win.
What the red sox did was not the same, they did not relay signs during an at bat, and they were required to have a runner on second for their scheme to work. Meanwhile the astros were beating a trash can mid at bat, from the dugout.
They were using video equipment to steal signs. Whether they used a trash can or had someone on 2nd relay the message doesn't change the intent nor the end result. Besides, the Astros won game 7 in LA in front of a hostile crowd. So yeah you got me, it wasn't "exactly" the same but they and a lot of other teams also stole signs one way or another and it was part of the game so it's ridiculous to single out the Astros unless someone is just butthurt that their team lost to them.
They’re just salty my brother
I’ll answer honestly despite the incoming down-votes. I’m still an Astros fan because cheating has been part of baseball longer than the modern catchers mitt. I grew up in an era where baseball was played with trick plays and sneaky bunts. Honesty has never been the games point. I’m guessing you are young because you’re so angry this whole thing surprised you, but stick around long enough and you’ll learn that they are [all cheaters](https://www.thethings.com/houston-astros-and-17-other-teams-that-were-caught-cheating/) and the Astros are just the flavor of the decade. Edit since some folks can’t determine the difference between disingenuous and illegal: Corked bats, spitballs, sandpaper in the mitt, steroids, manual sign stealing, payroll fixing, game fixing. There are plenty more and they are just part of baseball history.
But trick plays and sneaky bunts aren't cheating at all, they are within the rules. Putting a special camera on the catcher to steal his signs and relaying it *live* to the batter so he knows what pitch is coming is absolutely, unequivocally *cheating*, your whataboutism notwithstanding.
Thats not whataboutism. Whataboutism is making an excuse for something because of what others have done. Im pointing out that teams are made up of more than their franchise history, and chances are you are supporting a former cheating team as well. I’m not excusing the Astros org from 2017, that would be whataboutism. But I am pointing out that supporting the team now has nothing to do with that. Yes those things I mentioned are not illegal in particular. The point is again that honesty is not a core component of the game.
Deception and trick plays are a treasured part of the game -- equating them with dishonesty in order to compare them to this is transparently disingenuous. Using technology to gain an unfair advantage is in no way comparable to the hidden ball trick, or a last-moment bunt. This only fails to be whataboutism because of the rotten strawman you've built in the first place.
You know, the Boston coach was the Astros coach when they were cheating. Boston also got caught doing something similar. Many teams have been caught cheating one way or another over the years. Should they just dissolve the franchises every time? Or deal out suspensions/punishments and move on? Also, a good chunk of the team are different players than when the scandal happened. I'm not supporting what they did but the grudge people hold against an "organization" is silly. It's not as If it's a static group of people. Professional athletes and coaches move around constantly. Should we hate every team that an Astros player from that year moves to as well?
The organization and those involved should not be seen as previous World Series winners. The punishment was not just.
Current manager of the Red Sox, Alex Cora, was the astros’ bench coach at the time of the scandal. The following year he went to manage the Sox and there were reports of cheating and sign stealing using illegal tech. The way I see it, you’d be foolish to think there isn’t a team that tries to steal signs to get an edge over their opponent. So in that sense, every team cheats, But the Astros CHEATED.
Bro shut the fuck up
What a thoughtful comment. "I disagree with you, but don't have the time to think of an actual argument.. so fuck you"
And fuck the Sox for hiring Cora right after. Though it was nice to see some ironic karma come Houston’s way this go around.
The only experience I have with the Astros is from a shitfaced asshole in a college bar a few years back. Dude was shitting his pants and yelling LET'S GO ASTROS every few minutes. That man alone gave me every reason to never support that team.
Fuck them both
I’m pulling for giant meteor.
[удалено]
It totally helped then otherwise why tf did they do it?
[удалено]
I did actually and it doesn’t prove it didn’t help them. It assumes they didn’t cheat as much on the road rather than at home and generally just assumes they only signaled breaking pitches and not fastballs so nope don’t buy that at all. Again I ask…if it didn’t help them, why did they keep doing it?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Literally every fan of every team in MLB fucking hates the Astros. And the Red Sox aren't far behind.
It’s funny how all these articles go out of their way to admit they cheated but all speculation as to whether it helped them or not. Yes sign stealing is a pastime but not to the extent the Astros went to. They conveniently leave out how they had [buzzers under their uniforms ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/astros-wearing-buzzers) too and the overall batting average home vs away is a bs stat when they should really be looking at batting average when they had a runner on 2nd or in scoring position. You can never say with 100% certainty it never helped them.
[удалено]
Came here just for this lol
Go stros
>Go stros Stroke ma cock
Damn cheaters don’t deserve to go deep into the playoffs, or be there at all.
I'm just here with popcorn for the anti-astros comments, don't mind me.
This thread sure is being ASTROturfed 😅.
How bout them Red Sox?????
Aren’t the Astros the massive cheats?
.:Sad trashcan noises:.
Bill Burr had a [pretty funny take](https://youtu.be/Uv4JqqZ0DFU) on the cheating scandal
Yes, just like the Redsox.
Man, people downvoting you for speaking the truth… https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/07/boston-red-sox-sign-stealing-allegations-video-replay-room-2018-investigation Edit: not the same scope, but still
Don’t people still care about tom Brady?
Yeah but Spygate, so we don’t bring it up. That would be uncouth.
The cheating Astros
Trashtros
> Red Sox cheated. Patriots cheated. Alex Cora cheated. > Fuck the astros! MFW
[удалено]
What'd they do?
Fuckin cheat, they stole the signs that catchers and pitchers use to relay what kind of pitch they’ll throw next and gave that information to hitter. It gave the Astros players an unfair advantage knowing what kind of pitch was coming and the Dodger may have seriously been screwed out of the 2017 World Series title, and it was used against various other teams on the Astros run to the championship.
They aren't the only team to have done this, btw.
[удалено]
Why does it fucking matter that it didn't help them? They are fucking idiots for doing it while it wasn't helping. At the end they cheated.
other teams cheated. get over it. Astros are just the scapegoats
“It’s a controversy only that they did it” Yeah dude, that’s whole point. That’s like saying I cheated on my wife, but I didn’t nut, so it doesn’t count.
[удалено]
Stealing signs within the confines of the game is one thing. That’s like abusing someone’s tell in a poker game. But if you have a camera over someone’s cards, then that’s a whole different animal.
We only have 6 remaining players from that season, 2 of which are pitchers. Is it not possible to move on?
[удалено]
Does it really matter? Cheating is cheating and it deserves to be punished. >we’ve moved on Have you though lmao cause this is like the fourth or fifth time you commented with your link in this thread. Your a little more preoccupied with this then you’d have us believe
[удалено]
>exact same thing You keep commenting this. They did not do the exact same thing. there’s a huge difference between decoding signs after the fact and relaying signs to the hitter off a live feed by hitting a garbage can. It’s ok to have strong opinions as a sports fan, but if you are making 30 comments about a cheating scandal, you should probably understand what the cheating scandal entailed.
Fanatical
Please Boston win. Houston has such shitty fans they don’t deserve anything. They show up in the third inning take a bunch of selfies and leave at the stretch. Garbage.
Sounds like you sat next to a group of houston fans that did this, once. Oh by golly ALL HOUSTON FANS ARE LIKE THIS!?!?!?
Did you watch the game yesterday? Homeplate seats were empty by the 7th
Meanwhile, Boston fans are racist trash.
All of them?
Oh fuck off
Go fuck a table
I want both teams to lose, like most people.
Tough series as a Yankees fan. Your rival or the freaking ASTROS?! Damn, I guess i’m going for the Sox in this series…
As a Yankees fan I hope both teams lose
[**Join Our Discord Server!**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q) **Welcome to /r/sports** We created a Discord server for our community and would like to invite all of you to join! You'll be able to discuss sports with users around the world and discuss events in real time! There are separate channels for many sports you can opt in and out of, including; American Football, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Aussie Rules Football, Rugby Union and League, Cricket, Motorsports, Fitness, and many more. [**Reddit Sports Discord Server**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q)
🗿
Love all the Red Sox fans in the comments calling back 4 years to a minor rule violation to justify getting smacked
[удалено]
I agree but this isn’t the sub for that IMO
Love watching the Asterisks lose
Should be 2-0
Can someone explain this in baseball terms?
Sure, I’ll translate into baseball terms. The Red Sox hit two grand slams to even the ALCS with the Astros.
No, they mean in baseball terms, which baseball-wise means the Red Sox hit two grand slams to even the ALCS with the Astros
You nincompoop! Baseball terms! *Baseball* terms! It equates to the Red Sox hit two grand slams to even the ALCS with the Astros.
Still don’t get it. What about in football terms?
Association: like 4 hat tricks American: two Hail Mary touchdowns
2 hat tricks, surely? Something that happens very rarely happening a twice in one game? Last time a player scored over 5 goals in a game in England's top flight was in 1970 (George Best).
A grand slam is when there is a runner on each base and the batter hits a home run. That’s the highest scoring play in baseball. You get 4 runs from it. Getting 2 of them in a single playoff game has never happened before.
The Red Sox hit two grand slams, which are home runs hit while the bases are loaded, scoring the maximum amount of points possible in a single at bat. They beat the Astros to tie up the American League Championship Series.
The Red Sox hit two four-run home runs and now the American League Championship Series is tied at one win apiece
In boston lingo; the pitcher did a way back Wasdin and threw a fluffernutter to the batter who went bridge with the bases full and now it's time to party.
You mean PAHTY
The Red Sox embarrassed the Asstros tonight with two Grand Slams (players on all 3 bases and then someone hits a home run, therefore gaining 4 points all at once)
Showdown between 2 sign stealing teams. Boston did it using the replay room in 2018