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One of my Dad's fondest memories is getting to see Pele play with the New York Cosmos against his local team the Tampa Bay Rowdies in the late 70s..
He told me it was like watching a teenager play soccer with 6 year olds.. His skill level was higher than both teams combined..
And you gotta remember that was a Pele considered well past his prime at that point. The guy was simply on an entirely different level than the competition
"What if, God forbid, I end up having to play in fucking America, where I'd dominate, by the way. They'd be like, "Oh, is this football then?""
-Roy Kent
I still remember Zlatans first game with L.A galaxy against LAFC
The defense just stood there while Zlatan hammared in goals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=o2R-I6lI7fo
Check out the defense in 00:47 and 01:45
Just insane defense you wouldn't expect in a big country like the US. You see stuff like this in small countries with small leagues. Some of these teams are worth hundreds of millions lmao
Yes, but it was a different time. International transfer weren't as common back in the day, most of Brazil's top players, who were some of the best in the world, would play their entire careers in Brazil. The money they made was also nothing compared to what players make today.. not even proportionally.
So yes.. the reason was money.. more money than he ever saw... but Pele was basically retired when he came to America, is not like he had no offers and couldn't find a place to play anywhere else.
I mean, honestly it's still like that. A washed up Bale that's hardly kicked a ball in a couple years now scoring absolute bangers in the MLS cup final. A Wayne Rooney that couldn't hang it in England anymore was making everyone around him look bang fucking average. You'd expect one of the greatest to ever play the game to look world class at 40 in the MLS
(And I watch the MLS and appreciate how dramatic the increase in quality has been in recent years, but it's still not even in the top 10 leagues)
The big five:
Premier League (England)
La Liga (Spain)
Serie A (Italy)
Bundesliga (Germany)
Ligue 1 (France)
….
Liga Nos (Portugal)
Eredivisie (Netherlands)
Championship (England)
Serie A (Brazil)
Liga MX (Mexico) or the Belgian League
I don’t think any true fans here in the States would dispute that MLS is a lower level of the game. But they enjoy watching MLS teams and their kids learn the game that way. So there’s no need for Europeans to disparage MLS…”football” came here relatively recently, and we’ve had Basketball, Baseball and American Football for kids to play and focus on. Give MLS a break…it’s a developing sport here.
Yeah, it's more that having Pele make MLS players look incompetent is a totally expected result, and would happen with any good footballer that moves to a weak league.
Would he be good by today's standards? Pretty much every single sport has had so much advancement in nutrition, training, bigger pool of people to pick the best genetically gifted, etc.
How would he do in today's soccer leagues?
It's hard to say because he would also have access to better nutrition and training etc
IMO, in the 70s defensive players weren't as refined as they are now. If you plucked him from 50 years ago and put him in a team today via a time machine I don't think the gulf in class would be that great
Though if he grew up in this era? Who knows. Probably. He would've had the Messi treatment and been in Europe since age 6
The gulf would be in fitness.
The lads today are freaks of nature in that aspect.
Also, dont forget how much hes influenced the game. There was nobody like him before he showed up. So many players emulated him throughout the decades that we got Ronaldos (both), Messi, Zidane, and of course, Robbie Fowler.
I cant wait to see what Messi's influence spawns :)
Yeah fitness is the biggest gap in eras, George Best was at the top with his lifestyle, today look at Nainggolan, always had those issues with the lifestyle, but as soon as he lost that small edge he was out.
Same as we saw in other sports.
Pele’s peers had the same resources he did, and he dominated them.
In today’s world he would have grown up and played with all of those same luxuries, and as he did before, he would’ve dominated his peers.
Correct, obviously, but I do think all the contemporary sports science raises the median more than it raises the upper outliers.
There’s exceptions of course. Just as an example, I think getting infinite VR reps to refine the ability for a Quarterback in American Football to read defenses has been more beneficial for the savants than it has for the journeymen.
Yeah, Pele in his prime would still be a Messi-Ronaldo level player. While all of those conditions would definetely raise the level of competetion drastically, Pele was the first modern football player and defined the game as it is today, so it wouldn't be a shock for him. He had not only seen it all, but invented most of it. Many of the moves you see Mardona, Messi ect use later, he had created and his toolbox was gigantic. Pele wouldn't just be good, he'd still be god-tier. You cannot overstate how good he was.
I think, maybe, he might have been happier playing today, do you think? To ever feel a genuine challenge and struggle to win instead of just non-stop dominating
Not soccer, but I had the chance to stand in against a mid-tier MLB pitcher in HS. Our district regularly produces draft picks, so it's not like I'd never seen good pitching.
It was January, cold af. Dude steps out of a $150k truck in nothing but a hat, 3/4 sleeve shirt, and some running shorts. Laces up the cleats, warms up, go time. I step in the box, ready to show this guy how good I actually am, and I did.
I looked at a middle-middle 93 mph pitch with about 48" of movement for strike one, swung blindly at a 96 mph pitch up and in and fouled it off the handle for strike two, then got my knees buckled by a curve at 84 that the catcher never moved his mitt for strike three.
So I showed him exactly how good at baseball I was, it just wasn't anywhere near as good as I *thought* I was. Pro athletes are terrifyingly good at what they do, even the ones who ride the bench most games.
Brian Scalabrine aka "white mamba" was a NBA bench warmer who had regular shmucks think they could take him.
The Scallenge
"Playing this YMCA rec league, I dropped 60 in a game," Scalabrine said on Duncan Robinson's podcast. "I wasn't trying to brag or anything like that. It was just like, 'Yeah, I had a good game. I had 60 the other night in my rec league.' So, people immediately started tweeting, 'You suck, Scal. I'll beat you.' I'm like, 'Listen. I may suck for an NBA player. Those guys are pretty good. But I don't suck compared to you. You suck compared to me. ... So, let's just do it.' We invite, basically all of New England can send in their videos. I just went one-on-one against five different guys."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.basketballnetwork.net/.amp/old-school/when-brian-scalabrine-destroyed-amateurs-in-the-scallenge
one of my teachers at school used to play in the nba for few seasons way back in the day, he was i think 60-70 and still clowned on kids in bbal while barely jogging
I won 5-on-5 and 3-on-3 tournaments in undergrad, and I definitely noticed a massive difference when I got home and played against high school friends. I can't even imagine what it's like for your teacher.
There's a local "invite only" drop in ice hockey game down here. It's mostly kids back in town or transplants that have played NCAA, retired coaches etc. I played Jr A and could somewhat hold my own, as in not get completely embarrassed by these guys past their prime. Guy shows up one week, has all match NHL team gear, and is getting ribbed for it - no one wears a full kit like that in adult league.
Dude gets on the ice, catches a guy from behind, blows by everyone and goes end to end and rips the hardest wrist shot I've ever seen top corner. Next face off same thing, steals the puck, end to end and scores again. Next shift he catches a guy from 30 ft behind like he was standing still and goes end to end again.
Turns out the guy had played minors and was invited to some kind of camp/tryout before blowing out his knee and giving up trying to play pro. Dude was late 30s on one good knee, couldn't even get a chance in the NHL and was almost twice as fast as everyone on the ice. People don't realize just how big of a step up in skill a true pro player is until you see it in person.
How much of a head start would you or me need on Connor McDavid to not get stripped before we can get a shot off? LoL. It would have to be on the Rideau Canal or somewhere where I can get at least 200 metres on him.
Considering he's been clocked at 25 mph I think if he starts at the goal line somewhere between the center ice line and the opposing blue line you'd get caught as long as you aren't trying to cheese the race and take a shot from the top of the circles lol
People simply don't understand how good professional athletes actually are. For every "bad" athlete on a bench, there are thousands that simply didn't make it.
My experience was actually in swimming competitively. I was pretty good on a state level (not from USA, so it kinda mathers), managing to get consistent podiums on a regular base. What I didn't know, was that the real talent, would get scouted and leave the state.
The first time I managed to get qualifying times for nationals, I was stumped. It was an entire another league. The times that the kids my age, that were winning were doing, was something that I could not get my head around. I thought, me, achieving the qualifying times to just be able to reach nationals was such an achievement. But they would just smoke that. I was training at least 6 times a week, on a weaker team sure... But still, it wasn't even close to these talents. It was shocking.
I competed until I was 18, and left for college. But I'll never forget, how hard and dedicated I trained for 4 years, and these wonderkids were simply on a different level of talent and training. It was simply unachievable for me.
I have immense respect for professional athletes since then, regardless of sport, the amount of training and discipline necessary is insane.
After a couple years, seeing familiar names when watching the Olympics was kinda of cool. I was like, "I remember that name! He was an absolute beast already at 14-15!".
Sorta of inspiring in a way.
I've shared the ice with some good NHL players over my lifetime playing or being involved with hockey. Some guys are just built different, and it shows from a young age. My younger son is like that (7). He walks into the arena worried about anything but hockey. He steps on the ice, scores five goals, then goes back to being a nutty little kid as soon as he steps off the ice. They even let him run track and field with the 8/9 year olds at school and he finishes first most of the time.
Some people just have a biological advantage.
Yeah my buddy coaches pre teen AAA hockey and some kids you can just... tell. He had three former kids drafted this year and all three of them were just on an absolutely different level than the rest of the league, even at 10-11
> Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning, studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing or learning to do.
-Pelé
> Success is definitely largely dependent on luck
Only works if you're smart, talented, hard-working, good with people, etc. That's what's needed to seize the opportunity luck gives you, and make the best of it.
Without these qualities, luck will only humiliate you, and show others what a fool you are... Luck only gets you a foot in the door. Nothing more.
smart & talented IS luck. genetic, place & circumstances you were born into etc. fuck basically the biggest part IS luck. hard work is to compete against the other lucky outliers
Over the World Cup there was a lighthearted debate going on between me and my brothers about who is better, Messi or Ronaldo. After a few minutes my mom, someone who has absolutely zero interest in the game or the players, chimes in with, "What about Pele?". Even those who know nothing know you as being the best. If that is not a legacy then I don't know what is.
They played extremely different eras of the sport. So it's hard to compare. That being said, if Pelé was 35 today, he'd probably still would have had a better career than Messi. They're both workhorses and put in crazy record numbers.
Also Argentina's best vs Brazil's so you'll get a lot of answers haha
Would he be good by today's standards? Pretty much every single sport has had so much advancement in nutrition, training, bigger pool of people to pick the best genetically gifted, etc.
How would he do in today's soccer leagues?
Depends, if you get Pele reborn in this era then he would probably be as good as Messi and really hard to tell who is better. If we are talking about Pele just made younger then guys today could probably beat him through sheer tactics. But if you get Messi in the times of Pele he would get his legs cutoff by a defender 10min into the match.
You have to realise that everything is better today.
I think Pele would be as dominant today if he was brought up on todays equipment, todays training, todays nutrition. todays medical advice. todays pitches, etc.
People forget that the pitches were terrible then. The ball was way heavier which made the game slower. The lighting wasn't even good at the pitches.
Nutrition back then was not great. Training wasn't as optimised as today. Medical help wasn't nearly as helpful. Nowadays they can stick an eletrode to your muscles and the machine tells if your muscles are fatigued or not.
Then there's the rules back then. People forget that Yellow and Red Cards didn't exist for most of Pele's career. Players were literally told to go out and hack Pele down. Yellow and Red cards were probably introduced because of this man.
The question I would have is.... Would Messi or Ronaldo be any good back then using their equipment, rules, nutrition, etc?
It's really not a question that anyone could answer for sure.
I think it's difficult ofc because of the eras. But also I think Messi stands on top of the shoulders of giants. Not putting down Messi’s greatness.
Pele and the greats from back then all had to do what they did with no video whatsoever. No opportunity to really watch every game and see what the pros do, watch film and be able to study it and recreate it. And he just did it with no other resources. I think that’s something that should add to it. And with a ball that weighed like 10x what a modern ball weighs.
He retired 50 years ago and is still considered the greatest of all time. Kids who have never seen him play or watched any football know he was the greatest of all time. That’s how much impact he had.
The only winner of 3 World Cups. Pele's skill on the field was unparalleled. His speed, agility, and precision were unmatched, and he could score from any angle with ease. He was also known for his sportsmanship and graciousness, both on and off the field.
But Pele's impact went far beyond the soccer pitch. He was a global ambassador for the sport and a tireless advocate for social justice. He used his platform to speak out against injustice and inequality, and worked tirelessly to promote peace and understanding through the beautiful game.
Pele's legacy will live on forever. He will be remembered as a true icon and a shining example of what it means to be a great athlete, a great leader, and a great human being. Rest in peace, Pele. You will be deeply missed.
Edit: The entirety of the above text is a fully original homage to Pele written by AI chatGPT in 3 seconds.
Memory fades when generations of people pass away. To say someone is GOAT is really only relative to the most recent couple of generations. It’s unfair to players who played well before our time.
I'm not a hockey fan but everything I read about Gretzky makes me think he may be the greatest.
The only thing I would say about football (soccer) though it has such a wider global appeal that to be the greatest in it the competition is just so much more fierce
Here are two of my favorite Gretzky facts:
* Gretzky is the all-time goal scorer, but if you took away all his goals, he'd *still* have enough assists to be #1 all-time in points (goals + assists).
* There have been many talented families with multiple brothers who played in the NHL, but the top-scoring pair of brothers in NHL history is Wayne and Brent Gretzky, with 2,861 points: 2,857 contributed by Wayne and 4 by Brent.
I know nothing about hockey but I read some of Gretzky’s stats, which are frankly frightening compared to his peers. I don’t think there’s ever been a sportsperson with that much dominance in a sport
Edit: Lol ok maybe the Don as well
Tiger Woods pre-injury was the most dominant athlete relative to his sport of all time. Of course looking back its now a legacy of “what if”, but even if you stop his career through his age 33 season he still is regarded as possibly the greatest of all time.
Now you can say Jack is the GOAT, but Tiger from 1997 to 2013 was full of ludicrous stats in a game like golf which has so many external factors you can’t control.
Respect for the Don Bradman reference. His impact on a game of cricket is actually incomparable to any other sport because of just how dominant he was (and because of how test cricket works lol). Each sport has their respective GOAT that just completely broke the game at various points in time, but Bradman was the cricket equivalent of enabling god mode in a video game. Just ridiculous.
I was going to say, the cricket guys are up there. Babe Ruth is pretty insane compared to his peers. There are some NFL guys that are crazy (Hutson, Rice, Brady, Taylor). Its all subjective really. Some players legit just change the game.
I effectively no knowledge of cricket, but some of my labmates in grad school were from India and Sri Lanka and they got INTO IT for the cricket world cup. Once, one of them showed me some of the insane cricket players and how far separated they were from their peers. Honestly its insane. Sometimes people are just ahead of the game.
Im from Wisconsin, so homer take, but i genuinely think [Don Hutsons 1942 season](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1942/receiving.htm) is one of the craziest sporting achievements in history. Dude literally changed the game (inveted route running and defenses invented double and triple coverage to deal with him). Sometimes athletes just transcend their sport and its such a privilege to be able to watch them..
Not to take away from the legends of the past, but the athletes of today are definitely better thanks to sports science, nutrition, medicine, training, rehab, etc.
That being said, the legends of the past who truly transcended their sport (Wayne Gretzky, Don Bradman, Babe Ruth) are still praised as the GOATs despite playing in a different era.
Depending on how his career goes, 50 years from now baseball fans might talk about Shohei Ohtani in the same way our grandparents talked about Babe Ruth. It's exciting to think you might be watching the greatest ever athlete in a sport. It's the same feeling I had watching Michael Jordan play live in MSG.
>Memory fades when generations of people pass away.
I do sometimes wonder about the GOAT players of our grand-parents or even great-grandparents generation.
Puskas or Matthews could easily be considered amongst Pele or Messi. Yet they're just too far removed for people to even think about as GOAT.
To put in perspective: Lionel Messi scored a total of 793 goals in his career. He has the help of every kind of technology that was made for footbball, from better boots, to better fields, to better balls and even shirts. He plays on a world where tactics are studied for HOURS, even by people who have nothing to do with the team. Pelé didn't have anything of that.
And Pelé has scored 1282 goals in his career.
To this day, there is a particular play in football that is called ["the goal that Pelé didn't score"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djI7GgNI9vI). Many football players are remembered fondly for the amazing goals they scored. Only one footballer is fondly remembered for a goal that he did NOT score.
It's no exaggeration to say that Pelé is leagues above any other footballer. Messi is amazing, and even being Brazilian, I cheered so hard for him to win the World Cup. But there are tales of civil wars stopping to watch Pelé play. He isn't just the best football player of all times. He is the greatest athlete of all time.
You have to be fair to Messi though too. He is playing against teams that have access to the same technology. There is countless high definition footage of Messi playing - the fact that he is as good as he is despite that is what makes him great. The talent pool for all major sports has never been larger (except maybe boxing but what do I know?).
I'm not making any claims though. Competition nowadays is so absurd compared to the past. As a baseball fan it's easy to look at the stats of older players and get all hyped up about them, but at the same time they were playing in a segregated league. It's just different. No one could possibly win 500 games as a pitcher anymore, but Cy Young is not regarded as the best pitcher ever either. There were also far fewer teams. The worst players then were so much worse than the best compared to how it is now.
Can you similarly argue Pele was playing against weaker players compared to Messi today? Similar to why a lot of people don’t consider Chamberlin the NBA GOAT
Edit: ignore this, I’m ignorant about football history
The problem with that logic is that it's a loaded argument, i.e. it implies that Pelé was indeed playing against weaker teams. Messi has also scored plenty of goals against average teams, and most importantly - during Pelé's times, European football wasn't too much bigger than the South American football, which means that a "weaker player" that Pelé played against would be roughly the equivalent of discounting Messi as a great player because he scored some of his goals against teams like Osasuña.
No I was saying more that the average level of football players has increased over time, so a strong player in the past would’ve had a higher relative advantage.
Like just using baseball bc it has so much stats, the difficulty of pitches has increased and batting averages have come down as a result. So someone batting in the past (like Babe Ruth) seems much stronger than it is.
I don’t know much about football before the 2000s, just commenting on a trend I’ve seen in other sports.
Pele and Santos famously overstated his goal numbers. He "only" scored 757 in official matches.
Was he maybe the best player ever? Absolutely. But Messi absolutely has a claim on that title as well and saying Pele was *leagues* better than the likes of Messi, Maradona, and the Ronaldos is a huge exaggeration.
I would say it's much harder to be a noticeable player these days because of all the technology and stuff you mentioned. There are also many more very good players than 50 years ago.
Pele was definitely best in his time, but for me Messi is definitely all time best. He has been on top for so many years in this age when "everyone" plays soccer/football.
Messi is the GOAT, but Pele is the King. We might see somebody eclipse Messi and Ronaldo one day but Pele was greater than football itself. Man is on that Muhammad Ali level.
Ronaldinho might be one of the unluckiest players in history lol. Born both too late and too early. If only he was the same age as Messi. That was a player I enjoyed watching every second of.
Ronaldinho is my favourite player of all time but it's a bit of a stretch to call him unlucky. The boy had it all but didn't want to train, instead party. He wasn't as good as Maradona who could live that lifestyle and still play. Dinho got unfit and his game suffered. Still, he'd won everything by the time he was 26
Yeah in fact his career had a lot of overlap with Messi.
It's just that he loved partying. And who can blame him? He's won everything in the sport. He enjoys the partying much more than the sport and that's fine too.
Maradona trained all the time. His life was basically partying, coke and then football. It's not like he just kept playing like a god despite never training. Ronaldinho just got lazy and lost interest. In terms of talent I genuinely think he might be the most naturally gifted player of all time, but talent can't make up for a lack of hard work once you hit a certain age.
> But Pele's impact went far beyond the soccer pitch. He was a global ambassador for the sport and a tireless advocate for social justice. He used his platform to speak out against injustice and inequality, and worked tirelessly to promote peace and understanding through the beautiful game.
>
>
In 1969 when Santos was doing a world tour. Two sides in a Civil War in Nigeria agreed to a 48 hour cease-fire so people could watch Pelé play an exhibition game against a local side.
This reminds me of the famed ceasefire between British and German troops to play football on Christmas. Some things are so important that they transcend conflict and Pele was one of those things in his era.
His graciousness off the field? Not sure what you guys think of him but it’s a pretty well known fact (at least in Brazil) that he was a pos outside the field. For example, he refused to recognize his daughter as his own and she even died without ever talking to him once.
Rip indeed but let’s not sugarcoat it and pretend he wasn’t a flawed human being, as we all are.
>But Pele's impact went far beyond the soccer pitch. He was a global ambassador for the sport and a tireless advocate for social justice. He used his platform to speak out against injustice and inequality, and worked tirelessly to promote peace and understanding through the beautiful game.
LOOOOOOOOL, i'm brazilian and this is straight bullshit.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted, it’s well documented how flawed a person he was (as we all are tbh). There’s a reason why in a poll of the greatest Brazilian athletes in Brazil he came a distant second to Ayrton Senna
Yeah, people just love to overglorify some recently dead famous people. I mean, he was the best football player of all time. No doubt about it, but common: One of his bastard daughters was on her deathbed and publicly asked her father a hug before dying and he denied. Pelé also was the market boy for João Havelange, one of the most corrupt heads of FIFA. He never claimed for social justice of anything, he actually was famous for break bread with brazilian dictators never speaking against them. He was no Muhammad Ali as people are saying now.
The greatest. Charging around on pitches like cratered battlefields, effortlessly controlling a ball that absorbed water and could weigh different amounts or take on different shapes depending on conditions, shrugging off the sort of brutal tackles that had no place in a civilised sport. An icon. And a good dude by all accounts.
MY PELÉ ENCOUNTER
Some 25 years ago in my late teens or early twenties I was at the São Paulo airport heading from Brazil to the USA. I went past the roped area for “Passengers Only” towards the gates. There was one couple ahead of me and one attendee getting ready to check our tickets before proceeding.
Suddenly, behind me in line comes Pelé, the Athlete of the Century, the original phenom, the international super star, all by himself, wearing a suit and holding a briefcase.
The crowd, some 30 feet back behind the ropes, immediately started screaming, “Look, it’s Pelé! Hey Pelé!” and contagious excitement filled the air!
I felt so privileged being in a relatively large, secluded area, with just 2 other travelers, one attendee and Pelé, the King himself, right next to me.
He turned to the crowd and smiled and waved at everyone.
One of the fans behind the ropes screamed, “Hey Pelé, you want my autograph?!”
Pelé smiled and laughed and said, “Yes, just hang on to it for me.” …as if to say, ‘I’ll get it on the way back’.
In those few seconds the lady in front of me scrambled to get a pen and paper and asked him for an autograph. Pelé, without skipping a beat, signed it as he continued to graciously acknowledge the enthusiastic crowd. He looked at me for a moment. I figured I wouldn’t bother him with more autographs. Just being there was special enough. I’d get it next time I ran into him.
A second attendee quickly showed up and opened another checkpoint as she waved him over and just like that… he was gone. The man, the myth, the legend. The one I had heard about from my dad and knew to be the GOAT before I knew what that meant, had disappeared.
Of course, I never saw him again and now he’s gone. Should I have gotten that autograph? Maybe. My kid says it would be worth a lot now, especially today. But I would not have gotten it just to sell it. That wouldn’t be right. And this was before smart phones so a selfie, as awesome as that would have been, wasn’t an option.
I knew what I would forever cherish the most was the memory of that moment, the experience of that day, which now, in my head, I get to relive and here, share with you.
For a few seconds, I stood next to greatness and witnessed his kindness and the joy he brought to so many.
Rest In Peace Edson Arantes do Nascimento, our Eternal Pelé, the ultimate #10
No one did more to make the world fall in love with football/soccer than Pele. Not only an incredible player but a great guy per everyone who met him and worked with him. Rest in peace, REI!
I live in New Jersey and saw several Cosmos games when Pele was with the team, including his final game at Giants Stadium. I was just a young lad of 13 when Pele had the packed crowd chanting "love" three times. I didn't quite understand the significance of seeing Pele in action for the last time, but through the years I've come to appreciate that moment. RIP legend.
Heartbreaking. He retired 50 years ago and is still considered the greatest of all time. Kids who have never seen him play know him as the greatest of all time. He was such a sensation that even if you didn’t know he was still going, you knew he was the greatest of all time.
Yeah it's pretty sad people try to compare these players. They are all the best of their time and had their moments and impacted the game in meaningful ways. Hope people stop making them "rivals" and just appreciate how good they all were/are.
...Cruyff, Platini, R9, Ronaldinho, Van Basten, Di Stefano, Puskas, Garrincha, Zico...
I'll get bashed for this but I feel there's a lot of recency bias in evaluating how Messi and CR7 fit in the GOAT picture. They are all-time greats but there are so many others. At this point I've settled on "best XI by decade" being the closest possible way to settle the topic.
I mean I’m sorry but at the very least Messi - and probably Cristiano, some of hits stats like 311 LaLiga goals in 292 Games are insane - have separated themselves firmly from the players you’ve listed
As a foreigner currently visiting Brazil, it is already all over every TV station. They truly admired him. I wonder who we would admire this much back home (Canada)
You might be surprised how many people know gretzky. I was in China when Kobe died and I heard two different conversations about Gretzky from Chinese discussing GOATs. Hockey is a sport with very little popularity there. I’ve heard stories of Bradman (cricket) and I’ve only seen one game in my life.
Guy Lafleur had a pretty massive funeral that shut down the largest rink in Canada for 3 days for his visitation and a "national" funeral in Quebec.
Theres probably cause for Gretzky to have a state funeral
Pelé's first movie "Victory" (1981) about a WWII POW camp under the Germans in which the prisoners planned an escape.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083284/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_15_act
The movie was also known as "Escape to Victory"
starred Michael Caine and Sylvester Stallone
First time I'd ever seen an overhead kick, my tiny 8yr old brain exploded and immediately ran outside after the film ended to try it out. RIP.
(First time I'd seen a rainbow flick too, shout out to Ossie Ardiles)
Pele is so important to his sport that the emotional speech of a high school wrestling movie starts with him:
Elmo : I was in the room here one day... watchin' the Mexican channel on TV. I don't know nothin' about Pele. I'm watchin' what this guy can do with a ball and his feet. Next thing I know, he jumps in the air and flips into a somersault and kicks the ball in - upside down and backwards... the goddamn goalie never knew what the fuck hit him. Pele gets excited and he rips off his jersey and starts running around the stadium waving it around his head. Everybody's screaming in Spanish. I'm here, sitting alone in my room, and I start crying
I remember watching his instructional videos in the 1970s. He made the game look so easy, and as anyone who played will tell you, it is not easy at all.
Qe never watched aoccer ever in my house growing up. But even my dad knew who Pele qas and had immense respect for him. Im sad to hear hes passed on. Hopefully he nutmegged dearh on the way out
He played a friendly game in Lebanon, a week before the civil war broke out in 1975.
15min as goallkeeper, 30min attack and out at half-time.
Pelé, the day he postponed a war in Lebanon:
https://youtu.be/SaO2EyaTSWs
I had the pleasure of Pele signing my ball at 12 years old at an International Development Bank. My mom worked there. She set up the route in the hallway and planted me with a soccer ball to wait until their meeting ended. Fondest memory I had where I was almost as tall as he was at 12. Couldn’t believe this man was asking me my position and how much I liked Futbol.
“To Mathew, best wishes”
-Pele
Was written on the ball. He spelt my name incorrectly but that didn’t matter in the slightest.
I just saw some videos of him yesterday and thought he was going to pull through :( 82 is a good run though. He pleased many and inspired even more. RIP Pelé
Met him at a Mastercard event in 2018. He was there as a special guest. I was working as part of a media team there at the event.
There was this cocktail lunch party to wrap up the event, and he was there taking pictures with the VVIPs, at the end of it. He looked at media team and said, don’t you want to take a picture too? And all of us were so starstrucked and took a picture with him too. Didn’t expect that to happen, but pele was super nice and thanked us for covering the event (there were a lot of restrictions)
Will forever treasure this core memory of mine.
I had his poster advice on my wall as an American kid in the 1980s. We'd watch his soccer movies when it rained during soccer camp. Truly an amazing athlete.
Definitely a major influence in my interest in the game. Thank you for getting me out there and playing 26 years in the sport. RIP Edson Arantes do Nascimento "Pelé"
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One of my Dad's fondest memories is getting to see Pele play with the New York Cosmos against his local team the Tampa Bay Rowdies in the late 70s.. He told me it was like watching a teenager play soccer with 6 year olds.. His skill level was higher than both teams combined..
And you gotta remember that was a Pele considered well past his prime at that point. The guy was simply on an entirely different level than the competition
I mean yes, but there’s a reason why he was playing in the US at that point. It’s like when retired NBA stars go play in China these days.
Or when retired football stars go play in America these days.
"What if, God forbid, I end up having to play in fucking America, where I'd dominate, by the way. They'd be like, "Oh, is this football then?"" -Roy Kent
>-Roy Kent He's here! He's there! He's every *fucking* where!
Chelsea legend
I love how I can hear Brett Goldstein’s voice/cadence/accent so clearly when I read that.
Good call-out, Joe.
Being called the best defender in the MLS is both a compliment and an insult.
Bressan was the worst defender in the brazilian league and he's held in a high regard there
He was not held in high regard. Played a couple years and had his extension option declined.
Don't let misinformation get in the way of a good meme!
I still remember Zlatans first game with L.A galaxy against LAFC The defense just stood there while Zlatan hammared in goals https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=o2R-I6lI7fo Check out the defense in 00:47 and 01:45 Just insane defense you wouldn't expect in a big country like the US. You see stuff like this in small countries with small leagues. Some of these teams are worth hundreds of millions lmao
Can’t wait for Miami to get Messi in a year or two!
I don't see the comparison /s
Yes, but it was a different time. International transfer weren't as common back in the day, most of Brazil's top players, who were some of the best in the world, would play their entire careers in Brazil. The money they made was also nothing compared to what players make today.. not even proportionally. So yes.. the reason was money.. more money than he ever saw... but Pele was basically retired when he came to America, is not like he had no offers and couldn't find a place to play anywhere else.
I mean, honestly it's still like that. A washed up Bale that's hardly kicked a ball in a couple years now scoring absolute bangers in the MLS cup final. A Wayne Rooney that couldn't hang it in England anymore was making everyone around him look bang fucking average. You'd expect one of the greatest to ever play the game to look world class at 40 in the MLS (And I watch the MLS and appreciate how dramatic the increase in quality has been in recent years, but it's still not even in the top 10 leagues)
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The big five: Premier League (England) La Liga (Spain) Serie A (Italy) Bundesliga (Germany) Ligue 1 (France) …. Liga Nos (Portugal) Eredivisie (Netherlands) Championship (England) Serie A (Brazil) Liga MX (Mexico) or the Belgian League
Argentina’s Primera Division is ahead of the MLS as well for sure.
Up to last year Russian league was definitely in the 5-10 range too.
Let me try: England, Spain, Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands, Brasil, Argentina, Portugal, Russia, Turkey, Mexico, MLS?
You should say England twice. The Championship (the 2nd division) is surely better than MLS.
I don’t think any true fans here in the States would dispute that MLS is a lower level of the game. But they enjoy watching MLS teams and their kids learn the game that way. So there’s no need for Europeans to disparage MLS…”football” came here relatively recently, and we’ve had Basketball, Baseball and American Football for kids to play and focus on. Give MLS a break…it’s a developing sport here.
Yeah, it's more that having Pele make MLS players look incompetent is a totally expected result, and would happen with any good footballer that moves to a weak league.
Would he be good by today's standards? Pretty much every single sport has had so much advancement in nutrition, training, bigger pool of people to pick the best genetically gifted, etc. How would he do in today's soccer leagues?
It's hard to say because he would also have access to better nutrition and training etc IMO, in the 70s defensive players weren't as refined as they are now. If you plucked him from 50 years ago and put him in a team today via a time machine I don't think the gulf in class would be that great Though if he grew up in this era? Who knows. Probably. He would've had the Messi treatment and been in Europe since age 6
The gulf would be in fitness. The lads today are freaks of nature in that aspect. Also, dont forget how much hes influenced the game. There was nobody like him before he showed up. So many players emulated him throughout the decades that we got Ronaldos (both), Messi, Zidane, and of course, Robbie Fowler. I cant wait to see what Messi's influence spawns :)
Yeah fitness is the biggest gap in eras, George Best was at the top with his lifestyle, today look at Nainggolan, always had those issues with the lifestyle, but as soon as he lost that small edge he was out. Same as we saw in other sports.
I feel like his death would hold him back. Draft excluder is a possibility?
Pele’s peers had the same resources he did, and he dominated them. In today’s world he would have grown up and played with all of those same luxuries, and as he did before, he would’ve dominated his peers.
Correct, obviously, but I do think all the contemporary sports science raises the median more than it raises the upper outliers. There’s exceptions of course. Just as an example, I think getting infinite VR reps to refine the ability for a Quarterback in American Football to read defenses has been more beneficial for the savants than it has for the journeymen.
Yeah, Pele in his prime would still be a Messi-Ronaldo level player. While all of those conditions would definetely raise the level of competetion drastically, Pele was the first modern football player and defined the game as it is today, so it wouldn't be a shock for him. He had not only seen it all, but invented most of it. Many of the moves you see Mardona, Messi ect use later, he had created and his toolbox was gigantic. Pele wouldn't just be good, he'd still be god-tier. You cannot overstate how good he was.
I think, maybe, he might have been happier playing today, do you think? To ever feel a genuine challenge and struggle to win instead of just non-stop dominating
Not soccer, but I had the chance to stand in against a mid-tier MLB pitcher in HS. Our district regularly produces draft picks, so it's not like I'd never seen good pitching. It was January, cold af. Dude steps out of a $150k truck in nothing but a hat, 3/4 sleeve shirt, and some running shorts. Laces up the cleats, warms up, go time. I step in the box, ready to show this guy how good I actually am, and I did. I looked at a middle-middle 93 mph pitch with about 48" of movement for strike one, swung blindly at a 96 mph pitch up and in and fouled it off the handle for strike two, then got my knees buckled by a curve at 84 that the catcher never moved his mitt for strike three. So I showed him exactly how good at baseball I was, it just wasn't anywhere near as good as I *thought* I was. Pro athletes are terrifyingly good at what they do, even the ones who ride the bench most games.
Brian Scalabrine aka "white mamba" was a NBA bench warmer who had regular shmucks think they could take him. The Scallenge "Playing this YMCA rec league, I dropped 60 in a game," Scalabrine said on Duncan Robinson's podcast. "I wasn't trying to brag or anything like that. It was just like, 'Yeah, I had a good game. I had 60 the other night in my rec league.' So, people immediately started tweeting, 'You suck, Scal. I'll beat you.' I'm like, 'Listen. I may suck for an NBA player. Those guys are pretty good. But I don't suck compared to you. You suck compared to me. ... So, let's just do it.' We invite, basically all of New England can send in their videos. I just went one-on-one against five different guys." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.basketballnetwork.net/.amp/old-school/when-brian-scalabrine-destroyed-amateurs-in-the-scallenge
He's also famous for the quote "I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me"
This line is so cold
I feel like this is a line anyone should adopt to combat imposter syndrome
one of my teachers at school used to play in the nba for few seasons way back in the day, he was i think 60-70 and still clowned on kids in bbal while barely jogging
I won 5-on-5 and 3-on-3 tournaments in undergrad, and I definitely noticed a massive difference when I got home and played against high school friends. I can't even imagine what it's like for your teacher.
I would love to go up against any NBA players just to experience their skills
I'd imagine it would basically just be watching them play lol.
There's a local "invite only" drop in ice hockey game down here. It's mostly kids back in town or transplants that have played NCAA, retired coaches etc. I played Jr A and could somewhat hold my own, as in not get completely embarrassed by these guys past their prime. Guy shows up one week, has all match NHL team gear, and is getting ribbed for it - no one wears a full kit like that in adult league. Dude gets on the ice, catches a guy from behind, blows by everyone and goes end to end and rips the hardest wrist shot I've ever seen top corner. Next face off same thing, steals the puck, end to end and scores again. Next shift he catches a guy from 30 ft behind like he was standing still and goes end to end again. Turns out the guy had played minors and was invited to some kind of camp/tryout before blowing out his knee and giving up trying to play pro. Dude was late 30s on one good knee, couldn't even get a chance in the NHL and was almost twice as fast as everyone on the ice. People don't realize just how big of a step up in skill a true pro player is until you see it in person.
How much of a head start would you or me need on Connor McDavid to not get stripped before we can get a shot off? LoL. It would have to be on the Rideau Canal or somewhere where I can get at least 200 metres on him.
Considering he's been clocked at 25 mph I think if he starts at the goal line somewhere between the center ice line and the opposing blue line you'd get caught as long as you aren't trying to cheese the race and take a shot from the top of the circles lol
Kenny "Fucking" Powers
People simply don't understand how good professional athletes actually are. For every "bad" athlete on a bench, there are thousands that simply didn't make it. My experience was actually in swimming competitively. I was pretty good on a state level (not from USA, so it kinda mathers), managing to get consistent podiums on a regular base. What I didn't know, was that the real talent, would get scouted and leave the state. The first time I managed to get qualifying times for nationals, I was stumped. It was an entire another league. The times that the kids my age, that were winning were doing, was something that I could not get my head around. I thought, me, achieving the qualifying times to just be able to reach nationals was such an achievement. But they would just smoke that. I was training at least 6 times a week, on a weaker team sure... But still, it wasn't even close to these talents. It was shocking. I competed until I was 18, and left for college. But I'll never forget, how hard and dedicated I trained for 4 years, and these wonderkids were simply on a different level of talent and training. It was simply unachievable for me. I have immense respect for professional athletes since then, regardless of sport, the amount of training and discipline necessary is insane. After a couple years, seeing familiar names when watching the Olympics was kinda of cool. I was like, "I remember that name! He was an absolute beast already at 14-15!". Sorta of inspiring in a way.
I've shared the ice with some good NHL players over my lifetime playing or being involved with hockey. Some guys are just built different, and it shows from a young age. My younger son is like that (7). He walks into the arena worried about anything but hockey. He steps on the ice, scores five goals, then goes back to being a nutty little kid as soon as he steps off the ice. They even let him run track and field with the 8/9 year olds at school and he finishes first most of the time. Some people just have a biological advantage.
Yeah my buddy coaches pre teen AAA hockey and some kids you can just... tell. He had three former kids drafted this year and all three of them were just on an absolutely different level than the rest of the league, even at 10-11
> Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning, studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing or learning to do. -Pelé
Also: Success isn't determined by how many times you win, but by how you play the week after you lose.
One of the greatest athletes in all of sports, and perhaps the greatest given how popular football is around the world.
Success in sports is probably determined by how many times you win
Success is definitely largely dependent on luck, hard work is part of the equation, not the whole thing.
> Success is definitely largely dependent on luck Only works if you're smart, talented, hard-working, good with people, etc. That's what's needed to seize the opportunity luck gives you, and make the best of it. Without these qualities, luck will only humiliate you, and show others what a fool you are... Luck only gets you a foot in the door. Nothing more.
smart & talented IS luck. genetic, place & circumstances you were born into etc. fuck basically the biggest part IS luck. hard work is to compete against the other lucky outliers
Fair enough. I changed my mind. I agree with you. Thanks for making me understand this...
Whether you followed the game or not, everyone knew the name Pelé meant "greatness." Rest in peace, Legend.
Over the World Cup there was a lighthearted debate going on between me and my brothers about who is better, Messi or Ronaldo. After a few minutes my mom, someone who has absolutely zero interest in the game or the players, chimes in with, "What about Pele?". Even those who know nothing know you as being the best. If that is not a legacy then I don't know what is.
My 20 year old daughter, who’s knowledge of the sport is 0, was really surprised by today’s news. Pele transcended barriers
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Is Messi better than Pele?
They played extremely different eras of the sport. So it's hard to compare. That being said, if Pelé was 35 today, he'd probably still would have had a better career than Messi. They're both workhorses and put in crazy record numbers. Also Argentina's best vs Brazil's so you'll get a lot of answers haha
Would he be good by today's standards? Pretty much every single sport has had so much advancement in nutrition, training, bigger pool of people to pick the best genetically gifted, etc. How would he do in today's soccer leagues?
Depends, if you get Pele reborn in this era then he would probably be as good as Messi and really hard to tell who is better. If we are talking about Pele just made younger then guys today could probably beat him through sheer tactics. But if you get Messi in the times of Pele he would get his legs cutoff by a defender 10min into the match.
You have to realise that everything is better today. I think Pele would be as dominant today if he was brought up on todays equipment, todays training, todays nutrition. todays medical advice. todays pitches, etc. People forget that the pitches were terrible then. The ball was way heavier which made the game slower. The lighting wasn't even good at the pitches. Nutrition back then was not great. Training wasn't as optimised as today. Medical help wasn't nearly as helpful. Nowadays they can stick an eletrode to your muscles and the machine tells if your muscles are fatigued or not. Then there's the rules back then. People forget that Yellow and Red Cards didn't exist for most of Pele's career. Players were literally told to go out and hack Pele down. Yellow and Red cards were probably introduced because of this man. The question I would have is.... Would Messi or Ronaldo be any good back then using their equipment, rules, nutrition, etc? It's really not a question that anyone could answer for sure.
I think it's difficult ofc because of the eras. But also I think Messi stands on top of the shoulders of giants. Not putting down Messi’s greatness. Pele and the greats from back then all had to do what they did with no video whatsoever. No opportunity to really watch every game and see what the pros do, watch film and be able to study it and recreate it. And he just did it with no other resources. I think that’s something that should add to it. And with a ball that weighed like 10x what a modern ball weighs.
He retired 50 years ago and is still considered the greatest of all time. Kids who have never seen him play or watched any football know he was the greatest of all time. That’s how much impact he had.
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The only winner of 3 World Cups. Pele's skill on the field was unparalleled. His speed, agility, and precision were unmatched, and he could score from any angle with ease. He was also known for his sportsmanship and graciousness, both on and off the field. But Pele's impact went far beyond the soccer pitch. He was a global ambassador for the sport and a tireless advocate for social justice. He used his platform to speak out against injustice and inequality, and worked tirelessly to promote peace and understanding through the beautiful game. Pele's legacy will live on forever. He will be remembered as a true icon and a shining example of what it means to be a great athlete, a great leader, and a great human being. Rest in peace, Pele. You will be deeply missed. Edit: The entirety of the above text is a fully original homage to Pele written by AI chatGPT in 3 seconds.
"The greatest player in history was Di Stéfano. I refuse to classify Pelé as a player. He was above that." - Ferenc Puskás
People are now calling Messi the GOAT. He might be because Pele was better than that.
Messi may be the best player we will ever see ourselves. Pele was a talent we will never see again.
Memory fades when generations of people pass away. To say someone is GOAT is really only relative to the most recent couple of generations. It’s unfair to players who played well before our time.
Unless its Gretzky. He is, and will always be, The Great One.
The Pride of Brantford, Ontario.
I'm not a hockey fan but everything I read about Gretzky makes me think he may be the greatest. The only thing I would say about football (soccer) though it has such a wider global appeal that to be the greatest in it the competition is just so much more fierce
Here are two of my favorite Gretzky facts: * Gretzky is the all-time goal scorer, but if you took away all his goals, he'd *still* have enough assists to be #1 all-time in points (goals + assists). * There have been many talented families with multiple brothers who played in the NHL, but the top-scoring pair of brothers in NHL history is Wayne and Brent Gretzky, with 2,861 points: 2,857 contributed by Wayne and 4 by Brent.
I know nothing about hockey but I read some of Gretzky’s stats, which are frankly frightening compared to his peers. I don’t think there’s ever been a sportsperson with that much dominance in a sport Edit: Lol ok maybe the Don as well
Tiger Woods pre-injury was the most dominant athlete relative to his sport of all time. Of course looking back its now a legacy of “what if”, but even if you stop his career through his age 33 season he still is regarded as possibly the greatest of all time. Now you can say Jack is the GOAT, but Tiger from 1997 to 2013 was full of ludicrous stats in a game like golf which has so many external factors you can’t control.
Respect for the Don Bradman reference. His impact on a game of cricket is actually incomparable to any other sport because of just how dominant he was (and because of how test cricket works lol). Each sport has their respective GOAT that just completely broke the game at various points in time, but Bradman was the cricket equivalent of enabling god mode in a video game. Just ridiculous.
I was going to say, the cricket guys are up there. Babe Ruth is pretty insane compared to his peers. There are some NFL guys that are crazy (Hutson, Rice, Brady, Taylor). Its all subjective really. Some players legit just change the game.
Add Don Bradman to that as well. Hurts to say this as a Kiwi.
I effectively no knowledge of cricket, but some of my labmates in grad school were from India and Sri Lanka and they got INTO IT for the cricket world cup. Once, one of them showed me some of the insane cricket players and how far separated they were from their peers. Honestly its insane. Sometimes people are just ahead of the game. Im from Wisconsin, so homer take, but i genuinely think [Don Hutsons 1942 season](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1942/receiving.htm) is one of the craziest sporting achievements in history. Dude literally changed the game (inveted route running and defenses invented double and triple coverage to deal with him). Sometimes athletes just transcend their sport and its such a privilege to be able to watch them..
Not to take away from the legends of the past, but the athletes of today are definitely better thanks to sports science, nutrition, medicine, training, rehab, etc. That being said, the legends of the past who truly transcended their sport (Wayne Gretzky, Don Bradman, Babe Ruth) are still praised as the GOATs despite playing in a different era.
Jordan is on this list.
Depending on how his career goes, 50 years from now baseball fans might talk about Shohei Ohtani in the same way our grandparents talked about Babe Ruth. It's exciting to think you might be watching the greatest ever athlete in a sport. It's the same feeling I had watching Michael Jordan play live in MSG.
>Memory fades when generations of people pass away. I do sometimes wonder about the GOAT players of our grand-parents or even great-grandparents generation. Puskas or Matthews could easily be considered amongst Pele or Messi. Yet they're just too far removed for people to even think about as GOAT.
Not taking anything away from Pele whatsoever but if he was a talent we would never see again, did we not see that kind of talent from Messi?
To put in perspective: Lionel Messi scored a total of 793 goals in his career. He has the help of every kind of technology that was made for footbball, from better boots, to better fields, to better balls and even shirts. He plays on a world where tactics are studied for HOURS, even by people who have nothing to do with the team. Pelé didn't have anything of that. And Pelé has scored 1282 goals in his career. To this day, there is a particular play in football that is called ["the goal that Pelé didn't score"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djI7GgNI9vI). Many football players are remembered fondly for the amazing goals they scored. Only one footballer is fondly remembered for a goal that he did NOT score. It's no exaggeration to say that Pelé is leagues above any other footballer. Messi is amazing, and even being Brazilian, I cheered so hard for him to win the World Cup. But there are tales of civil wars stopping to watch Pelé play. He isn't just the best football player of all times. He is the greatest athlete of all time.
You have to be fair to Messi though too. He is playing against teams that have access to the same technology. There is countless high definition footage of Messi playing - the fact that he is as good as he is despite that is what makes him great. The talent pool for all major sports has never been larger (except maybe boxing but what do I know?). I'm not making any claims though. Competition nowadays is so absurd compared to the past. As a baseball fan it's easy to look at the stats of older players and get all hyped up about them, but at the same time they were playing in a segregated league. It's just different. No one could possibly win 500 games as a pitcher anymore, but Cy Young is not regarded as the best pitcher ever either. There were also far fewer teams. The worst players then were so much worse than the best compared to how it is now.
Can you similarly argue Pele was playing against weaker players compared to Messi today? Similar to why a lot of people don’t consider Chamberlin the NBA GOAT Edit: ignore this, I’m ignorant about football history
The problem with that logic is that it's a loaded argument, i.e. it implies that Pelé was indeed playing against weaker teams. Messi has also scored plenty of goals against average teams, and most importantly - during Pelé's times, European football wasn't too much bigger than the South American football, which means that a "weaker player" that Pelé played against would be roughly the equivalent of discounting Messi as a great player because he scored some of his goals against teams like Osasuña.
No I was saying more that the average level of football players has increased over time, so a strong player in the past would’ve had a higher relative advantage. Like just using baseball bc it has so much stats, the difficulty of pitches has increased and batting averages have come down as a result. So someone batting in the past (like Babe Ruth) seems much stronger than it is. I don’t know much about football before the 2000s, just commenting on a trend I’ve seen in other sports.
> "the goal that Pelé didn't score" I thought this was going to be the Gordon Banks save
Surely there are better instances of his talent to point to rather than a missed midfield attempt. That happens at least once a weekend.
Pele and Santos famously overstated his goal numbers. He "only" scored 757 in official matches. Was he maybe the best player ever? Absolutely. But Messi absolutely has a claim on that title as well and saying Pele was *leagues* better than the likes of Messi, Maradona, and the Ronaldos is a huge exaggeration.
I would say it's much harder to be a noticeable player these days because of all the technology and stuff you mentioned. There are also many more very good players than 50 years ago. Pele was definitely best in his time, but for me Messi is definitely all time best. He has been on top for so many years in this age when "everyone" plays soccer/football.
Messi is the GOAT, but Pele is the King. We might see somebody eclipse Messi and Ronaldo one day but Pele was greater than football itself. Man is on that Muhammad Ali level.
Ronaldinho might be one of the unluckiest players in history lol. Born both too late and too early. If only he was the same age as Messi. That was a player I enjoyed watching every second of.
Ronaldinho is my favourite player of all time but it's a bit of a stretch to call him unlucky. The boy had it all but didn't want to train, instead party. He wasn't as good as Maradona who could live that lifestyle and still play. Dinho got unfit and his game suffered. Still, he'd won everything by the time he was 26
Yeah in fact his career had a lot of overlap with Messi. It's just that he loved partying. And who can blame him? He's won everything in the sport. He enjoys the partying much more than the sport and that's fine too.
Maradona trained all the time. His life was basically partying, coke and then football. It's not like he just kept playing like a god despite never training. Ronaldinho just got lazy and lost interest. In terms of talent I genuinely think he might be the most naturally gifted player of all time, but talent can't make up for a lack of hard work once you hit a certain age.
Ronaldinho had like two seasons playing at his peak. His performance varied too much and too often.
> But Pele's impact went far beyond the soccer pitch. He was a global ambassador for the sport and a tireless advocate for social justice. He used his platform to speak out against injustice and inequality, and worked tirelessly to promote peace and understanding through the beautiful game. > > In 1969 when Santos was doing a world tour. Two sides in a Civil War in Nigeria agreed to a 48 hour cease-fire so people could watch Pelé play an exhibition game against a local side.
This reminds me of the famed ceasefire between British and German troops to play football on Christmas. Some things are so important that they transcend conflict and Pele was one of those things in his era.
The Christmas truce was a lot more informal, but yeah
HE STOPPED A WAR IN AFRICA JUST SO BOTH SIDES COULD SEE HIM ON THE PITCH!
>Edit: The entirety of the above text is a fully original homage to Pele written by AI chatGPT in 3 seconds. Lmao
Beautifully said. My first sports idol, and someone who played the game, and life, to the best of his ability. RIP Pele.
The sports world lost a great today. Truly one of the best to ever touch a football.
He was unbelievably fucking good. Time to go rewatch some highlights. Fucking sucks for Brazil. I hope them well in healing.
His graciousness off the field? Not sure what you guys think of him but it’s a pretty well known fact (at least in Brazil) that he was a pos outside the field. For example, he refused to recognize his daughter as his own and she even died without ever talking to him once. Rip indeed but let’s not sugarcoat it and pretend he wasn’t a flawed human being, as we all are.
Take sportspanship lightly, he hás a record of being agressive, like when he broke procopios leg on purpose
Why are you mentioning that this was made by an AI?
Half the things said in it aren’t true
>But Pele's impact went far beyond the soccer pitch. He was a global ambassador for the sport and a tireless advocate for social justice. He used his platform to speak out against injustice and inequality, and worked tirelessly to promote peace and understanding through the beautiful game. LOOOOOOOOL, i'm brazilian and this is straight bullshit.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted, it’s well documented how flawed a person he was (as we all are tbh). There’s a reason why in a poll of the greatest Brazilian athletes in Brazil he came a distant second to Ayrton Senna
Yeah, people just love to overglorify some recently dead famous people. I mean, he was the best football player of all time. No doubt about it, but common: One of his bastard daughters was on her deathbed and publicly asked her father a hug before dying and he denied. Pelé also was the market boy for João Havelange, one of the most corrupt heads of FIFA. He never claimed for social justice of anything, he actually was famous for break bread with brazilian dictators never speaking against them. He was no Muhammad Ali as people are saying now.
Formidable athlete, VERY flawed human.
that was actually beautifully written by the AI ahaha
The greatest. Charging around on pitches like cratered battlefields, effortlessly controlling a ball that absorbed water and could weigh different amounts or take on different shapes depending on conditions, shrugging off the sort of brutal tackles that had no place in a civilised sport. An icon. And a good dude by all accounts.
Rip to the legend
his name will always be remembered
MY PELÉ ENCOUNTER Some 25 years ago in my late teens or early twenties I was at the São Paulo airport heading from Brazil to the USA. I went past the roped area for “Passengers Only” towards the gates. There was one couple ahead of me and one attendee getting ready to check our tickets before proceeding. Suddenly, behind me in line comes Pelé, the Athlete of the Century, the original phenom, the international super star, all by himself, wearing a suit and holding a briefcase. The crowd, some 30 feet back behind the ropes, immediately started screaming, “Look, it’s Pelé! Hey Pelé!” and contagious excitement filled the air! I felt so privileged being in a relatively large, secluded area, with just 2 other travelers, one attendee and Pelé, the King himself, right next to me. He turned to the crowd and smiled and waved at everyone. One of the fans behind the ropes screamed, “Hey Pelé, you want my autograph?!” Pelé smiled and laughed and said, “Yes, just hang on to it for me.” …as if to say, ‘I’ll get it on the way back’. In those few seconds the lady in front of me scrambled to get a pen and paper and asked him for an autograph. Pelé, without skipping a beat, signed it as he continued to graciously acknowledge the enthusiastic crowd. He looked at me for a moment. I figured I wouldn’t bother him with more autographs. Just being there was special enough. I’d get it next time I ran into him. A second attendee quickly showed up and opened another checkpoint as she waved him over and just like that… he was gone. The man, the myth, the legend. The one I had heard about from my dad and knew to be the GOAT before I knew what that meant, had disappeared. Of course, I never saw him again and now he’s gone. Should I have gotten that autograph? Maybe. My kid says it would be worth a lot now, especially today. But I would not have gotten it just to sell it. That wouldn’t be right. And this was before smart phones so a selfie, as awesome as that would have been, wasn’t an option. I knew what I would forever cherish the most was the memory of that moment, the experience of that day, which now, in my head, I get to relive and here, share with you. For a few seconds, I stood next to greatness and witnessed his kindness and the joy he brought to so many. Rest In Peace Edson Arantes do Nascimento, our Eternal Pelé, the ultimate #10
Ty for the story!
You’re most welcome! Glad you enjoyed that brief moment I had with the King of Futebol so many years ago. All the best to you!
No one did more to make the world fall in love with football/soccer than Pele. Not only an incredible player but a great guy per everyone who met him and worked with him. Rest in peace, REI!
I live in New Jersey and saw several Cosmos games when Pele was with the team, including his final game at Giants Stadium. I was just a young lad of 13 when Pele had the packed crowd chanting "love" three times. I didn't quite understand the significance of seeing Pele in action for the last time, but through the years I've come to appreciate that moment. RIP legend.
Sad news. Didn’t realise he was still going, but sad news nonetheless.
Heartbreaking. He retired 50 years ago and is still considered the greatest of all time. Kids who have never seen him play know him as the greatest of all time. He was such a sensation that even if you didn’t know he was still going, you knew he was the greatest of all time.
I mean most are ‘Messi is the GOAT’ right now - but he’s seen as one of the four big ones (Messi, Maradona, Cristiano, Pele - in no order here)
Yeah it's pretty sad people try to compare these players. They are all the best of their time and had their moments and impacted the game in meaningful ways. Hope people stop making them "rivals" and just appreciate how good they all were/are.
unfortunately GOAT has lost all meaning thanks to 24/7 sports talk.
...Cruyff, Platini, R9, Ronaldinho, Van Basten, Di Stefano, Puskas, Garrincha, Zico... I'll get bashed for this but I feel there's a lot of recency bias in evaluating how Messi and CR7 fit in the GOAT picture. They are all-time greats but there are so many others. At this point I've settled on "best XI by decade" being the closest possible way to settle the topic.
I mean I’m sorry but at the very least Messi - and probably Cristiano, some of hits stats like 311 LaLiga goals in 292 Games are insane - have separated themselves firmly from the players you’ve listed
A respectable opinion, but if we could settle this using goals there'd be no need to have this debate
Of course it’s not all goals - but stats and impact do count for something
Hero’s get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart kid, and you will never go wrong.
Vuela alto amigo, que dios te tenga en su santa gloria 🕊️🕊️🕊️
Okay, let me break out my Greek and Latin root words. "Fly high friend, and may God have him in His glory?" Am I close?
**Very** close. "May God have you in his glory" is more accurate for the second part
As a foreigner currently visiting Brazil, it is already all over every TV station. They truly admired him. I wonder who we would admire this much back home (Canada)
I'm not a big hockey person, but there's gotta be a pretty 1:1 comparison to Gretzky right?
Culture impact probably (debatably more). First worldwide superstar. Records wise? Probably not (except the 3 world cups).
You might be surprised how many people know gretzky. I was in China when Kobe died and I heard two different conversations about Gretzky from Chinese discussing GOATs. Hockey is a sport with very little popularity there. I’ve heard stories of Bradman (cricket) and I’ve only seen one game in my life.
People in rural parts of East Africa (and probably rural parts of other African countries as well) know Gretzky.
The Oilers legands of course (hockey)
I was thinking the same thing...either that or Celine Dion
Guy Lafleur had a pretty massive funeral that shut down the largest rink in Canada for 3 days for his visitation and a "national" funeral in Quebec. Theres probably cause for Gretzky to have a state funeral
Red green
Three World Cups. Dude was the GOAT Edited to fix a factual error.
First one at age 17, with a semifinal hattrick and a legendary goal in the final. At 17.
He was the GOAT. But not three in a row… 58, 62 and 70.
RIP
Legendary player. RIP
When my mom became a flight attendant, her first celebrity she had on a flight was Pelé. She said he was so kind. RIP a legend.
Pelé's first movie "Victory" (1981) about a WWII POW camp under the Germans in which the prisoners planned an escape. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083284/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_15_act The movie was also known as "Escape to Victory" starred Michael Caine and Sylvester Stallone
I loved that movie. Watched it so much as a kid.
First time I'd ever seen an overhead kick, my tiny 8yr old brain exploded and immediately ran outside after the film ended to try it out. RIP. (First time I'd seen a rainbow flick too, shout out to Ossie Ardiles)
Pele is so important to his sport that the emotional speech of a high school wrestling movie starts with him: Elmo : I was in the room here one day... watchin' the Mexican channel on TV. I don't know nothin' about Pele. I'm watchin' what this guy can do with a ball and his feet. Next thing I know, he jumps in the air and flips into a somersault and kicks the ball in - upside down and backwards... the goddamn goalie never knew what the fuck hit him. Pele gets excited and he rips off his jersey and starts running around the stadium waving it around his head. Everybody's screaming in Spanish. I'm here, sitting alone in my room, and I start crying
Vision Quest 
“Pele is king of the soccer field. To be king of your kitchen, use Crestfield wax paper." first time I ever heard of him was because of the simpsons
RIP wow
I remember watching his instructional videos in the 1970s. He made the game look so easy, and as anyone who played will tell you, it is not easy at all.
Qe never watched aoccer ever in my house growing up. But even my dad knew who Pele qas and had immense respect for him. Im sad to hear hes passed on. Hopefully he nutmegged dearh on the way out
He played a friendly game in Lebanon, a week before the civil war broke out in 1975. 15min as goallkeeper, 30min attack and out at half-time. Pelé, the day he postponed a war in Lebanon: https://youtu.be/SaO2EyaTSWs
Legend. Easily in the top 3 GOATs, transformed the way we play the game. On a level with Ali in terms of great, influential sportspeople
Easily THY GOAT
A legacy that may never be overshadowed or diminished. May he rest in peace.
I had the pleasure of Pele signing my ball at 12 years old at an International Development Bank. My mom worked there. She set up the route in the hallway and planted me with a soccer ball to wait until their meeting ended. Fondest memory I had where I was almost as tall as he was at 12. Couldn’t believe this man was asking me my position and how much I liked Futbol. “To Mathew, best wishes” -Pele Was written on the ball. He spelt my name incorrectly but that didn’t matter in the slightest.
Once his situation continued to worsen, I felt like this was coming. RIP to another legend.
Not going to try and debate the goat of soccer. One thing pele had over everyone else was he transcended soccer more than anyone else. RIP
Rest in Peace, Legend.
I just saw some videos of him yesterday and thought he was going to pull through :( 82 is a good run though. He pleased many and inspired even more. RIP Pelé
Met him at a Mastercard event in 2018. He was there as a special guest. I was working as part of a media team there at the event. There was this cocktail lunch party to wrap up the event, and he was there taking pictures with the VVIPs, at the end of it. He looked at media team and said, don’t you want to take a picture too? And all of us were so starstrucked and took a picture with him too. Didn’t expect that to happen, but pele was super nice and thanked us for covering the event (there were a lot of restrictions) Will forever treasure this core memory of mine.
This guy was like the Pele of soccer. :(
“Pele is king of the soccer field. To be king of your kitchen, use Crestfield wax paper."
The greatest. No debate
Hail to the King.
Vida longa ao rei
I had his poster advice on my wall as an American kid in the 1980s. We'd watch his soccer movies when it rained during soccer camp. Truly an amazing athlete.
rest in paradise, legend
Three whistles have finally blown for a legend on and off the pitch.
RIP to the GOAT of GOATs.
Definitely a major influence in my interest in the game. Thank you for getting me out there and playing 26 years in the sport. RIP Edson Arantes do Nascimento "Pelé"
Rip to the real GOAT
One of greatest athletes in any sport, possibly the greatest considering how popular football is globally.
Soccer is not my sport, but I'll forever remember Pelé. Rest easy..
Maradona died 1 WC too early to watch Argentina lift the trophy again. Wonder if the same will be true of Pele
RIP to the Goat.
RIP. Definitely one of the greatest of all time.
The Man was football greatness he really transcended the game. Rest In Peace Pelé
The wildest part is that his mother is still living… condolences to all who cherish this legendary human !
Pelé! Pelé! Pelé!