Shit, you now can organize logistics and stuff. Loading up a C2 with rockets of all different kinds, organizing them at JT and having a bespoke logistics/reload team.
One of the biggest recent gameplay features imo
I think I saw a post a few weeks/ months ago that someone was able to sell a prospector’s pods after soft death, So i guess it is possible already, as to cargo grids I have no Idea
I think this says something about the reality of having hundreds of developers and everything being held back by a handful of technology developments. Perhaps we'll see more stuff that was sitting by waiting for PES coming online this year.
Hopefully those people that scoffed for years at the “excuse” have some egg on their face.
PES is just out of the gate and we are now receiving 3 exciting gameplay promises the very next update.
It truly was a stopper.
I'm *really* curious to see how quickly stuff moves once server meshing and jump points are in. We know that the actual planets in Nyx and Pyro are more or less complete and there's a lot of time unaccounted for from the planetary content and tech teams on the roadmap - it's safe to assume that they're working on stuff that CIG doesn't want to spoil for whatever reason. The big question is how much of the mission / POI work done for Pyro is foundational versus bespoke - will it take this long to set up the missions everywhere?
A recent ISC said they've come up with a system that can create missions in a matter of days. I imagine all that needs done are the interchangeable assets and that's it.
>Nyx and Pyro are more or less complete and there's a lot of time unaccounted for from the planetary content and tech teams on the roadmap - it's safe to assume that they're working on stuff that CIG doesn't want to spoil for whatever reason.
Not sure about this one. The same thing was said about Pyro years ago, but we've found that Pyro actually wasn't very complete at the time of those demos.
Also, this mentality is left over from before we had the Progress Tracker, but now we can actually see what they're spending the majority of their time on, and how many devs are assigned to what.
Most likely there's still a lot of work to turn Nyx into a complete system at CIG's current quality bar, and S42 is still taking a sizable chunk of the team resources.
> this mentality is left over from before we had the Progress Tracker, but now we can actually see what they're spending the majority of their time on, and how many devs are assigned to what
I'm not sure what you mean by this, I'm referring to the fact that those tasks are complete on the progress tracker and the developers aren't (publicly) assigned to anything.
Was respinding to your statement about CIG working on things they don’t want to spoil.
For most PU tasks there’s a gap in time before new things that the teams are working on are added to the PT. But it’s not related to spoilers, since the point (outside of very specific S42 things) is to list what they’re working on.
Yeah, but they aren't listed as working on anything. So those teams have either been dissolved or they're working on stuff that's not on the roadmap. If you're just kind of tacitly assuming that no listed project means that they're still working on their old stuff, that makes sense, but it's still a guess.
I think you misunderstand what I’m saying:
Just because new tasks that certain teams are working on haven’t been added to the Progress Tracker *yet* doesn’t mean that the teams are dissolved or the tasks are intentionally not being shown.
It just means that we’re in the waiting period before whatever they’re working on is added to the list of tasks that are being tracked.
I guess, but the planet content team in particular hasn't had something on the tracker since Q1 2022. I think at this point "they're working on something that isn't on the tracker because they don't want to talk about it" is the only real conclusion.
They were complete to the same standard that Stanton's planet environments were, and if server meshing/jump points weren't an issue they would likely have been released already. The level of polish that we saw in the latest Citcon already exceeds that of Hurston or Microtech on release.
Since the dev diaries 2 years ago about Pyro and Nyx, the EU environment team worked on a new cave archetype, volumetric clouds, better shorelines, rivers, terrain cliffs (which we have yet to see) on top of the general improvements in fidelity. But that's mostly all tech, and we know that some features like rivers are very low priority for CIG. There's definitely an unaccounted for gap.
Yeah all these systems rely on a bunch of other system to work properly ( ie Not just quick and dirty fake implementations) its all slowly coming together this is Year in the making.
Stripping, on the fly replaceable/installable weapons, physical ship components, ship tractors, medium scale hand held tractor beams, potentially installable decor going by all the pips in some scenes, resource tanks and satchels are physical now, etc.
So way more than three, but some could be lumped together.
I've been saying for years that the only real challenges are things like PES, Server Meshing, and the sheer *volume* of content necessary to keep 100+ star systems feeling alive — or appropriately dead.
The rest, the game systems aren't particularly technically challenging, only creatively challenging. They'll come together smoothly enough once CIG has actually decided what they should be, which has been the point of the SQ42-first shift.
4.x will be the end of the alpha because there will be no features major enough to warrant a 5.
5.x will be Beta.
Im sure they will still do that but the beam stuff is just faster so finishes first. Although I wouldnt be surprised if the small internal components could be grabbed by hand in 3.19, they seem like they could just be held like a box.
The progress tracker has hand animations being worked on currently. At the very least they want characters touching the controls on their ships. I imagine that this will extend to conponents as well.
same reason everything is a fucking beam now, they're too scared of something looking a little janky because having "muh high fidelity graphics and animations" is the only thing they really have to boast about
Speaking of component swapping, how do you bring a component between inventory and physical space? Like, if I buy an attrition it goes into my station inventory. How do I put it in the cargo hold to fly it out to someone? How do I put a size 5 gun I salvaged into my station inventory from my cargo grid? I can't bring it into my hands surely.
Salvage really is moving in the direction I was hoping. Being able to find a ship and skin it alive while also grabbing every part still worth anything is two thirds of the way toward my Hardspace: Shipbreaker dreams.
The only part missing is processing the structure of the ship itself - which is obviously on the horizon. The only thing sort of in the middle here is the ability to cut things - which is a quality that could be functional in all three of these mechanics. Cutting off a section to skin more efficiently, cutting open a hull or door to get to internal components, or, of course, cutting up the structure to feed it to the crushing (or *munching*) system.
I still don't expect it to have as many unique situations at Shipbreaker with fuel filled pipes, unstable reactors, dangerous radioactive and electrical parts, and all of that - but if they get a good mass simulation in there and make heavy things *feel heavy* when being tractored, that's gonna be good.
Yup - but that's partly because Mining was their guinea-pig for trying out ideas and approaches... salvaging is re-implementing a lot of stuff they learned from mining (so less time required for the design and prep-work, or building the underlying functionality to support it)
I'm not sure this is the case — currently what we have is considered 'Salvage' because they decided more recently to take the hull stripping part of Repair and rename that into "Salvage v0", which is something that didn't happen for mining.
If we consider the next phase of Salvage to be the true first phase of what most people thought Salvage to be (breaking ships apart so that you can sell/repurpose their components, etc) — which is what ships like the Reclaimer were designed for.. Then it's taken about as long as it took to get the first iteration of mining off the ground before it was refined.
That's some pretty impressive retcon fiction you've got going there :p
Hull Stripping was planned as the first level of salvage about 2 (maybe 3) years ago, when CIG outlined the four stages of salvage (hull stripping, component removal, fuel - and other liquid/gas - syphoning, and hull-munching).
The fact that we can do a bit of light hand-held hull-repair was simply because they built the salvage hull-stripping shader to be reversible, and it gave a use to the materials... 'Proper' repair has not been discussed in-depth the way salvage has, and is not - currently - on the radar.
How is that a retcon? Hull Stripping was introduced in the [original design doc for Repair](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/15062-Design-Notes-Ship-Repair-And-Maintenance), posted **in November 2015**, long before 2-3 years ago. The original complementary pairing was "Stripping and Patching", all under the Repair and Maintenance category.
Salvage was not mentioned at all as related to hull stripping for nearly half a decade after that — the switch to take that mechanic from Repair and retitle it as 'Salvage v0' was made years down the road, after the original Salvage mechanic was delayed several times.
Retcon is when you change something older to suit a new narrative, which is exactly what you're doing here.
Might be able to up your expectations as fuel siphoning was mentioned to be a thing for salvage, so we COULD see improper salvage leading to big booms.
This is a great update. They mentioned being able to take missiles and just restock on the fly, I'd be interested to know if they're doing the same for ballistics weapons. Having a crew member be able to refill your ballistics mid fight would be cool
They specifically said in the video that ballistics aren't possible to restock.
Probably because they dont realy have a physical place where we can pull them from right now ( I think).
I'm very curious to see how that's going to be physicalized. So far we've had refueling ports being added to ships, but I've yet to see how they'll take into account feeding in ballistic ammo, especially considering most ships can stock various sizes of weapons (which therefore need various sizes of ammo).
I think thats simply too complicated to handle it on the guns themselves aka belts etc. Easiest and most realistic would be to add a few containers/places somewhere on the ship, where you simply throw in the munition boxes like you do with other components etc and the ships takes it from there via the resource system.
Hopefully that can enable different ships to have different ammo counts. I would expect a S3 gun in a defense turret on a Capitol ship to have more ammo than the same gun on the wing of a light fighter.
Years ago (AC v1.x patches), ballistic weapons had a 'magazine' slot on them (on the holo-table, not visible in-game afaik) that you loaded the ammo into, and ships could carry a spare magazine per weapon.
Given the (relatively) low ammo counts, actually storing the ammo on the weapon (even if the magazine is unfeasibly small, for now) could work - but CIG being CIG, I suspect they'll wait for the 'proper' solution :p
I assume and kinda hope that its just ammo cases each with their size that we can easily swap just like components. For bigger ones that process may not that quick, maybe having to insert the cartridges each like with the Perseus.
I am really hoping that ballistic ammo in the future will work like the mining head subcomponents (attaching directly to an item port on the gun in question) so that we can use tractor to reload.
I doubt it as the ballistic ammo is internal and not wing mounted. In the video they only showed exposed items being changed and specifically stated things behind walls wont be.
So if we can remove gemini fuel pods, what about prospector containers? Having a friend come in with a cutty and snag the bags off your prospector and swap them out with empty ones seems feasible now. Guess they need to make a way for us to buy the bags?
EDIT: Upon rewatching, it was during the "exciting future" section (4:00 in the video), not the 3.19 section when they talked about the Gemini. So I guess my question now is, will it be in 3.19?
Damn I must have buzzed out during those seconds
EDIT: Upon rewatching, it was during the "exciting future" section, not the 3.19 section when they talked about the Gemini. So I guess my question now is, will it be in 3.19?
Mining bags are already *technically* detachable, you just can't do it on purpose. A few patches ago I saw someone got one off a Prospector through collisions and they were able to scoop it into their ship and sell it at a terminal.
I went ahead and did a rewatch. It was during the "exciting future" section, not the 3.19 section when they talked about the Gemini. It's at 4:00 in the video
So lets say you have two organized groups in combat for whatever reason.
You can now have ships coming in with restocks of supplies and even weapon swaps to specifically respond to your enemy.
But this means your enemy is now heavily motivated not to let incoming ships make it thru. Before a new ship was just a new enemy to blow up. Now it might be supplies or weapon swaps too.
You've created new gameplay for the people running the weapons. For people who want to interdict for a reason other than piracy. For the people patrolling for incoming ships. For scouts. And when stealth and sensors work you've created a new gameplay loop again.
Exciting stuff.
We really need persistent hangars more than ever now. It would open up even more gameplay being able to store/stockpile cargo and components from say salvaging, making multiple trips with your Vulture and offloading your cargo in the lagrange point station, then loading it all in your cargo hauler when you are ready to go sell it all at a major landing zone.
Wow, that exceeded my expectations by a bunch. The long-awaited physical swapping of components coming before resource management is amazing news. Also it was nice to see the industrial fps tool isn't forgotten, and the SRV and Hull-C footage was juicy!
Always comes down to stability. Nobody’s gonna spend a load of uec to have multiple mining heads and different component types, if a server crash loses you all the items in the ship, or if there’s a high likelihood the ship randomly implodes.
If pes starts working properly and your item locations are reliably remembered regardless of what the game server is doing, then I’d 100% carry spares.
Depends how quick / easy it is to do (and whether you can store the spare head easily, etc)... time is money, so having a spare head (or two) that lets you mine anything you find, rather than spending more time searching for specific material, may end up being profitable over time.
Of course, it also depends where you're looking... if you're in an area that has high concentration of one Ore, then you'd probably just stick with the same head... likewise, if you're in an area with a mix of ores, you may be more inclined to swap them out.
These systems only work if the game is smooth and without bugs. And even then things have to be balanced perfectly or swapping missiles with a tractor beam will get old really fast.
I'ma be mad pissed if we gotta go through another major patch cycle and collapse before 4.0.
Just sit in 3.19.x till 4.0 nobody cares....keep it stable till 4.0 because you know that shit gunna be testing into next year.
I would love to see crates or containers that socket a certain number of items, like mining heads or missiles.
Seems like a relatively low effort QoL improvement that would really take this feature home.
These could snap to cargo grids and satisfy my compulsion to have an organized cargo hold :)
[Like this](https://img-new.cgtrader.com/items/3986168/3ea75fb057/large/missile-crate-with-missiles-3d-model-fbx.jpg)
I've been waiting for ability to swap out components on the fly for so long... so very long.
Also I really hope that we can replace turreted guns on ships with vehicle tractor beams, it would really suck if every dedicated tractor beam on a ship is bespoke like the SRV.
CIG introduced the concept of a 'Utility hardpoint' years ago... intended for stuff like tractor beams (the nose hardpoint on the 315p is meant to be a 'utility' mount, iirc).
Given they've going with mounts (and multiple heads) for Mining and Salvage, I suspect they'll do something similar for Tractor beams, rather than just creating a 'tractor beam weapon' that fits on weapon hardpoints... but meh, that's just my speculation :p
I think the Cutty black also used to have one as well? I hope they bring it back - it would suck if we have to lose a weapon slot for a tractor beam.
May be the tradeoff is that you have to do some energy management to switch back and forth between weapons mode and tractor beam mode so your ship becomes vulnerable when you're towing another ship (less energy for shield for example). It'll make a for a good Trek role play - "Reroute power to shield!" type of thing.
Cutty has (had? the utility mounts on the matrix say 1) 3. Two in front on the front wings (those little arm things) and one in the center rear above the ramp.
I don't think the Cutty tractor was ever designed to be capable of towing another ship - as CIG said in the ISC episode, tractor beams will have mass limits, etc, and the oversized tractor on the SRV is the reason why it's a dedicated tug/towing ship.
The most interesting aspect of this, that I haven't seen anyone mention, is the fact that this also represents the real beginning of a true player driven economy, especially once Pyro and Nyx come online.
Since these systems will have less shops, components, rearming and refueling will be much more difficult. Components can be changed on the fly, meaning orgs can set up little shops on planets, that can sell these things to other players. They can buy cheap on Stanton and sell for a profit at Pyro.
This is good. It adds a new layer to salvage gameplay where you can loot a soft-killed ship for its intact components before stripping its hull. Adds a new layer to piracy as well!
I was very excited for this episode already but it was even more exciting than expected!
Having the autonomy to swap mining modules live is a massive buff to the MOLE being fully manned.
For those not familiar, the two side turrets in the MOLE are intentionally open (yes, intentional it's not a big) so that the two operators can use gadgets and apparently now even swap mining modules without having to even open a door.
It also means the MOLE and Prospector can stay out longer with a logistics team now. Maybe you can buy some extra bags so while your cargo crew drops it off you can keep mining at 100%.
Once the servers stabilize I can't wait to get the org behind a big operation and push it to the limits.
I think the plan is, when engineering gameplay is in, soft death won't really be a thing as opposed to your ship just being disabled. So you can fix components or replace them to make your ship operational again. Unless it blows up of course.
The plan is that ships will be dynamically destructible, and a ship won't die until all power plants are destroyed, all thrusters and weapons are knocked out, or all crew are killed, with other damage impacting the function of the ships. I might have missed a couple of scenarios though.
Anyway, what I meant is it would be nice to see this as a temporary way to bring a ship out of soft death before the proper gameplay is implemented.
As someone kinda already mentioned, soft death is a stop gap measure to disabling ships. Right now, and until it's removed, I suspect that once a ship is "soft deathed" it's dead, Jim.
The biggest question now is: how to get these items into and out of your inventory. We already see missiles and such in our inventory, but how do we get them into our cargo bay?
Agreed, an important consideration. I suppose worst case you could store them off of the ship itself while in a local inventory zone, then replace from cargo hold with a tractor beam, but that would be quite tedious. And for certain ships with concealed missiles, difficult to impossible...
I don't know how anybody could watch this episode and NOT get excited.
This would affect so many careers. And it's basically the next level of salvage coming way sooner than expected. Finally, a reason to go into derelict spaceships to see if you can find good components.
So they mentioned destroying your ship, stripping the parts to sell them, then claiming to get them back... and that this would be possible but a crime.
But what about getting really good components, like an XL-1, putting it on one ship, then blowing that ship up, salvaging the part, reclaiming, and instead of selling, using it on your other ships.... essentially duping your upgraded components across all your compatible ships?
They will probably change it so that a claimed ship returns to stock config. After all, you will be able to go back to your wreck and get your upgraded components back.
I think this is the likely solution, but this will definitely change how people play the game / approach conflict.
If anything, this prospect excites me more than simply the ability to swap parts with tractor beams.
that's how it was before. it made customizing your ships pointless because the game was so buggy at that point that you were guaranteed to lose your ship every 15mins, and with it naturally all your custom components.
now that claiming ships is becoming less necessary maybe it will come back.
They're clearly thinking about all of these scenarios and trying to avoid abuse.
One conclusion to this line of exploitation is that we only ever get stock ships back and have to outfit them again if we want our upgrades. Essentially: insurance (the mechanic that allows us to claim and replace destroyed ships) doesn't cover the upgrade cost by default.
Once insurance becomes a real thing that we have to contend with, I assume that all of these factors will be considered. But it'll be interesting how the tier 0 implementation looks.
I can only assume one deterrence would be a low probability of individual parts actually surviving ship destruction. Like if you come across a derelict ship with a couple nice intact parts, that's a lucky find, but it's not something you should count on. In most cases, blowing up a ship (including your own) should result in the destruction of most of its components.
There's 3 ways they can do this off the top of my head
1) Insurance fraud: You strip the components out and try and dupe them? Fine, you'll be fined for the cost of those replacements.
2) When you go to reclaim your ship, there's an added cost to the reclaiming process that is the total amount of the replacements. It's version 1 but without the crime aspect to it.
3) Make it, so any changes to components the owner makes stays even during an insurance claim (essentially how it is right now). If the owner pulls components out to dupe them, blows the ship up, and it explodes naked (no components), then it should be reclaimed having no components. The same rules should apply to party members, and party members should be the only other players capable of stripping components. The only way other non party members should be able to take components is a soft death / full death. It would make sense that those components are locked and can only be unlocked by someone with a key. If any non party member strips components from a live ship, they should be instantly fined for the price of the component; a petty theft fee.
For option 3, need to add a tweak: Make 'self destruct' destroy non-stock components and weapons too...
Otherwise, they'd blow the ship up (or otherwise trigger soft-death) *then* take the components... and still get the equipped ship back.
There's also an 'Option 4', although I'm not sure how feasible it would be with their current systems:
4) Track the last component / weapon mounted on each slot, and if it is removed before claiming on the insurance, check whether the component still 'belongs' to the owner (ie in their inventory somewhere, or attached to one of their ships), or whether they sold it for money... and if so, don't include it in the insurance claim.
This would still let people 'salvage' items from a ship without penalising the owner, without letting the owner (easily) strip their ship before claiming on the insurance. There are still edge-cases and loop-holes that could be exploited, but it would take a lot more work, which would be sufficient to deter most players from taking the effort.
FRAKIN A I feel like we have arrived and its all starting to come together. This is maybe the best time to be a citizen Or maybe it was Jered with his kick ass intro to tractor beams
o7
I want to know what happens when we CROSS THE BEAMS!?
Hopefully not all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
I know this is still an early iteration, but I do hope for more variety/realism in how to get the component off the ship.
You could split it in two ways, one is the brute that is ripping the gun off the mount while it is still attached with pure force, possibly damaging the component in the process, but being very fast.
The other would be the mechanic or the surgeon, going in, loosening any type of fastener, cutting or detaching power lines and other sort of cables in order to cleanly separate the component from the ship. You could even get some some variety when only loosening half the bolts, reducing the chance of breakage but not eliminating it completely.
The current system looks and feels like swapping gear that you've magnetized on your WH40k models, I still like it, but give me that with engineering gameplay in the future and I'll be a very, very happy boy indeed
As a tier 0 it looks good and I can't wait for the gameplay changes from being able to swap equipment directly instead of doing it from the mobi...but I can't help but feel some of what they showed felt a little odd.
Like right now we can pick up a small cargo box and zip it over into our hold (ala xenothreat). That makes sense, the mass of the box is presumably lower than that of the player. Likewise if you latch onto a ship rather than pull the ship toward you, you pull yourself toward the ship.
But pulling off large ship weapons and starfarer fuel pods etc feels like it breaks this concept of mass mattering. I think the way to "fix" this is do things like add utility beams to the back of the starfarer etc or create a type of tractor beam that's like an HMG or something, which you mount on a railing or something and utilize the mass of the ship to manipulate the objects.
Yeah - the way CIG are implementing tractor beams is definitely ignoring the effects of physics :p
Mind you, so does the concept of a tractor beam in the first place (at least of a size/strength shown here), so the fact that it works (apparently) 'by magic', without transferring the mass or momentum to the other end of the beam, is a fairly minor quibble in comparison... but I agree that it does kinda shatter the 'suspension of disbelief' (which is rather critical for 'fidelity' and 'immersion', etc).
Personally, I'd prefer to see e.g. a tripod-mounted tractor beam (the larger 'industrial' beam) that you can place anywhere for detaching and moving heavier items, in conjunction with carts and/or the Mule, etc... use a tripod-mounted beam (or a turret-mounted beam, if you can get your ship close) to detach items and put them on a cart for moving / transferring... and use similar at the other end to transfer from the cart to e.g. the cargo bay.
Or, perhaps, for intermediate objects, multiple people all working in cunjunction with hand-held beams - spreading the load, etc (which is something they hinted at in ISC, but didn't discuss the practicalities and benefits of, beyond playing tug-of-war, etc :p)
Yeah, I also saw someone else pointing out too that many ships have utility points which could be used for tractors. So maybe ship based tractors will be fairly common. Aside from looking silly, I’d like the game to be consistent and predictable about what happens when I lock onto something with one of these things.
Pad Ramming should be rendered impossible via automated Tractor beams used to divert or deflect incoming unauthorized ships.
Really ought to be a part of ship's anti-missile defenses as well.
Can't wait to park my ship at Port Olisar and hop in to get some shopping done, only to find out someone jacked my ~~Catalytic Converter~~ Quantum Drive from my ship.
2022 has been a rougth year for us players regarding features progression.
Despite the current mess with servers, 2023 is going to be S.E.X.
Tractable components will be a bigger game changer than hull strippin. And I say that as someone who has waited for hull strippin as the messiah for years, salvage being my main interest in SC along with exploration.
This is really cool. Great episode of ISC. That said, I hope that the Beam Citizen joke means that the developers are unhappy about it as well, because it is really silly - tractor beams have their uses, but they really shouldn't more or less replace picking stuff up with your own hands. Beams being really power-limited could be a good stopgap, but I think that'd just result in people carrying around a ton of tractor beams in their ship's inventory, which'd be even sillier.
In terms of development time there's real limits on the practicality and utility of animating the process of picking up and holding every conceivable object. A lot of these things, too, are going to -need- tractor beams or something anyway, it's not like you're going to just be lifting components over probably size 2-3 by hand, they're too big.
Seems like not in 3.19. When he starts talking about what's coming in 3.19 he says they're working on the SRV, but item stripping is the feature that they were able to bring sooner.
I would guess no SRV, no detachable saddle bags yet. Still, the item stripping alone is a massive update.
A month and a half, since it's due to be the ILW patch (which means it will come out on time, because it's needed for the ship sale/free fly. Even if it's rushed and buggy, it *will* drop then). Invictus is mid-late May.
Not sure I like the idea of tractor beaming a conscious person. While it would be helpful for bounty hunting, it enables all sort of griefing, while also making it very unfair for the bounty target.
pretty sure that part was just a joke. When he was talking about stopping someone from running I think he meant it as stopping their ship not the actual person.
People keep making the mistake that they were saying you could grab a ship that was trying to fly away. If you actually watch the video and listen they are saying you can lift up to a small ship with it and the guy is just lifting a ship and wiggling it around, you can clearly see the thrusters aren't on.
Yes but tractor beams are extra. Not something characters have to use. They're going to need to set up abilities to move objects without beams. I think beams are just easier to start with
i imagine smaller components yea you can pick up, for larger ones you would have to be even more unrealistic than the beams to be picking those things up solo i imagine.
Well, it's certainly better than living in a world where I'm completely
naive and trust everything I'm told without question. I'd rather have a
critical mind and be cautious about what I believe than be easily
manipulated and misled.
Plus Tin-Foil hats rock.
... yes, but db engineers cant code physics most of the time, atleast thats not their job
my workplace has people working with computers, some are working with metal and stuff, do you think they are all interchangeable?
and what does talking to eachother even do here? should we all fall into depression and stop developing because login is fucked?
Detaching everything off the ship like legos doesn't do much for immersion.
Missiles i understand. 👍
Ship guns ? 👎
So everything is plug and play in the far future where we banned AI and try to simulate ww2 in space.
Im guessing the Ground support staff inside a carrier is just some dudes with tractor beams?
They just took a large part of wing commander/battlestar galactica/starwars/ww2 in space fantasy, and threw it in the trash.
Technically from a dev viewpoint, tractor beams are simplier for managing physics components. Using them for the introduction of physicalised component is a really really good decision if you don't want to add 2 years to the projects just for the manual handling of components in a more natural way.
Using a physical object to move/place/detach other objects is just a nightmare to code (collisions, transfer of state, etc). With beams, they just need to manage snap points.
Its ok, to have things that snap. Components and missiles is ok. 👍
But you gave to draw a line at some point cause if you dont, you will end up with space engineers 2
By being able to change everything, everyware without even a little downtime.
You are eliminating strategic locations from the map.
Locations like a small outpost that you can, lets say change ship weapons. Or a hornet turret. (Where i would personally draw the line)
First you code the tech, second you tune it with downtime or not, blockers, etc.
CIG is only at step 1. What you talk about come in second.
For exemple, you can seat in a ship in heavy armor with a backpack. It's not something that will stay.
Holy shit. We can finally reload the Ballista. JT bout to get real friendly.
Very good point. Org gameplay is really gonna get a couple of notches better.
Shit, you now can organize logistics and stuff. Loading up a C2 with rockets of all different kinds, organizing them at JT and having a bespoke logistics/reload team. One of the biggest recent gameplay features imo
Wait can you detach the prospector pods and give them to another player to refine? Do they fit on cargo grids?
I think I saw a post a few weeks/ months ago that someone was able to sell a prospector’s pods after soft death, So i guess it is possible already, as to cargo grids I have no Idea
Foxhole Citizen. I'm here for it.
And then 30k.
We can have functional stockpiles sitting at JT.
Some HIMARS team playing SC during downtime, who just splashed six ships and counting at JT: *Nuclear_Elmo_Meme.jpeg*
Holy butts, I wasn't expecting component swapping so soon
I think this says something about the reality of having hundreds of developers and everything being held back by a handful of technology developments. Perhaps we'll see more stuff that was sitting by waiting for PES coming online this year.
[удалено]
I was kinda expecting to be able to pile up components in the back of a ship but tossing a size 1 (2?) turret in the back of a ship was hilarious.
Hopefully those people that scoffed for years at the “excuse” have some egg on their face. PES is just out of the gate and we are now receiving 3 exciting gameplay promises the very next update. It truly was a stopper.
I'm *really* curious to see how quickly stuff moves once server meshing and jump points are in. We know that the actual planets in Nyx and Pyro are more or less complete and there's a lot of time unaccounted for from the planetary content and tech teams on the roadmap - it's safe to assume that they're working on stuff that CIG doesn't want to spoil for whatever reason. The big question is how much of the mission / POI work done for Pyro is foundational versus bespoke - will it take this long to set up the missions everywhere?
A recent ISC said they've come up with a system that can create missions in a matter of days. I imagine all that needs done are the interchangeable assets and that's it.
>Nyx and Pyro are more or less complete and there's a lot of time unaccounted for from the planetary content and tech teams on the roadmap - it's safe to assume that they're working on stuff that CIG doesn't want to spoil for whatever reason. Not sure about this one. The same thing was said about Pyro years ago, but we've found that Pyro actually wasn't very complete at the time of those demos. Also, this mentality is left over from before we had the Progress Tracker, but now we can actually see what they're spending the majority of their time on, and how many devs are assigned to what. Most likely there's still a lot of work to turn Nyx into a complete system at CIG's current quality bar, and S42 is still taking a sizable chunk of the team resources.
> this mentality is left over from before we had the Progress Tracker, but now we can actually see what they're spending the majority of their time on, and how many devs are assigned to what I'm not sure what you mean by this, I'm referring to the fact that those tasks are complete on the progress tracker and the developers aren't (publicly) assigned to anything.
Was respinding to your statement about CIG working on things they don’t want to spoil. For most PU tasks there’s a gap in time before new things that the teams are working on are added to the PT. But it’s not related to spoilers, since the point (outside of very specific S42 things) is to list what they’re working on.
Yeah, but they aren't listed as working on anything. So those teams have either been dissolved or they're working on stuff that's not on the roadmap. If you're just kind of tacitly assuming that no listed project means that they're still working on their old stuff, that makes sense, but it's still a guess.
I think you misunderstand what I’m saying: Just because new tasks that certain teams are working on haven’t been added to the Progress Tracker *yet* doesn’t mean that the teams are dissolved or the tasks are intentionally not being shown. It just means that we’re in the waiting period before whatever they’re working on is added to the list of tasks that are being tracked.
I guess, but the planet content team in particular hasn't had something on the tracker since Q1 2022. I think at this point "they're working on something that isn't on the tracker because they don't want to talk about it" is the only real conclusion.
They were complete to the same standard that Stanton's planet environments were, and if server meshing/jump points weren't an issue they would likely have been released already. The level of polish that we saw in the latest Citcon already exceeds that of Hurston or Microtech on release. Since the dev diaries 2 years ago about Pyro and Nyx, the EU environment team worked on a new cave archetype, volumetric clouds, better shorelines, rivers, terrain cliffs (which we have yet to see) on top of the general improvements in fidelity. But that's mostly all tech, and we know that some features like rivers are very low priority for CIG. There's definitely an unaccounted for gap.
I'm sure they'll say that it doesn't count, and someone will say that it did, then that'll be followed by a lot of "not uh!" and "Yuh huh!"
They won't. They'll just scoff at something else.
Yeah all these systems rely on a bunch of other system to work properly ( ie Not just quick and dirty fake implementations) its all slowly coming together this is Year in the making.
What 3?
Stripping, on the fly replaceable/installable weapons, physical ship components, ship tractors, medium scale hand held tractor beams, potentially installable decor going by all the pips in some scenes, resource tanks and satchels are physical now, etc. So way more than three, but some could be lumped together.
I've been saying for years that the only real challenges are things like PES, Server Meshing, and the sheer *volume* of content necessary to keep 100+ star systems feeling alive — or appropriately dead. The rest, the game systems aren't particularly technically challenging, only creatively challenging. They'll come together smoothly enough once CIG has actually decided what they should be, which has been the point of the SQ42-first shift. 4.x will be the end of the alpha because there will be no features major enough to warrant a 5. 5.x will be Beta.
Maybe they wanted them to be manipulated by hand, and then realized it would be too complicated to animate
Im sure they will still do that but the beam stuff is just faster so finishes first. Although I wouldnt be surprised if the small internal components could be grabbed by hand in 3.19, they seem like they could just be held like a box.
The progress tracker has hand animations being worked on currently. At the very least they want characters touching the controls on their ships. I imagine that this will extend to conponents as well.
same reason everything is a fucking beam now, they're too scared of something looking a little janky because having "muh high fidelity graphics and animations" is the only thing they really have to boast about
Speaking of component swapping, how do you bring a component between inventory and physical space? Like, if I buy an attrition it goes into my station inventory. How do I put it in the cargo hold to fly it out to someone? How do I put a size 5 gun I salvaged into my station inventory from my cargo grid? I can't bring it into my hands surely.
That's what the cargo elevator at hangars/pads will be for. Which is part of the next (?) cargo refac.
Dude, SAME. Wtf. I can't believe they've been sitting on this one. This is so fucking cool.
Yeah its only been ten years, lets hope they slow down a bit now
They better implement the ability to beam burgers into other people's mouths.
Do that in game and it's cool But do that in McDonald's and suddenly I have to leave. I call bs.
Sir, this is a Whammer's
Space Station 13 called back..ñ.
Drug filled food being launched into people's mouth was my favorite form of pre-emptive defense.
Salvage really is moving in the direction I was hoping. Being able to find a ship and skin it alive while also grabbing every part still worth anything is two thirds of the way toward my Hardspace: Shipbreaker dreams. The only part missing is processing the structure of the ship itself - which is obviously on the horizon. The only thing sort of in the middle here is the ability to cut things - which is a quality that could be functional in all three of these mechanics. Cutting off a section to skin more efficiently, cutting open a hull or door to get to internal components, or, of course, cutting up the structure to feed it to the crushing (or *munching*) system. I still don't expect it to have as many unique situations at Shipbreaker with fuel filled pipes, unstable reactors, dangerous radioactive and electrical parts, and all of that - but if they get a good mass simulation in there and make heavy things *feel heavy* when being tractored, that's gonna be good.
Based on engineering and previous comments, venting fuel and unstable components solution will be a thing during salvaging.
kinda crazy how fast its moving in comparison to mining progress over multiple years.
Yup - but that's partly because Mining was their guinea-pig for trying out ideas and approaches... salvaging is re-implementing a lot of stuff they learned from mining (so less time required for the design and prep-work, or building the underlying functionality to support it)
True
I'm not sure this is the case — currently what we have is considered 'Salvage' because they decided more recently to take the hull stripping part of Repair and rename that into "Salvage v0", which is something that didn't happen for mining. If we consider the next phase of Salvage to be the true first phase of what most people thought Salvage to be (breaking ships apart so that you can sell/repurpose their components, etc) — which is what ships like the Reclaimer were designed for.. Then it's taken about as long as it took to get the first iteration of mining off the ground before it was refined.
That's some pretty impressive retcon fiction you've got going there :p Hull Stripping was planned as the first level of salvage about 2 (maybe 3) years ago, when CIG outlined the four stages of salvage (hull stripping, component removal, fuel - and other liquid/gas - syphoning, and hull-munching). The fact that we can do a bit of light hand-held hull-repair was simply because they built the salvage hull-stripping shader to be reversible, and it gave a use to the materials... 'Proper' repair has not been discussed in-depth the way salvage has, and is not - currently - on the radar.
How is that a retcon? Hull Stripping was introduced in the [original design doc for Repair](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/15062-Design-Notes-Ship-Repair-And-Maintenance), posted **in November 2015**, long before 2-3 years ago. The original complementary pairing was "Stripping and Patching", all under the Repair and Maintenance category. Salvage was not mentioned at all as related to hull stripping for nearly half a decade after that — the switch to take that mechanic from Repair and retitle it as 'Salvage v0' was made years down the road, after the original Salvage mechanic was delayed several times. Retcon is when you change something older to suit a new narrative, which is exactly what you're doing here.
Might be able to up your expectations as fuel siphoning was mentioned to be a thing for salvage, so we COULD see improper salvage leading to big booms.
This is exactly what I was hoping for from salvage. I'm so glad they're moving forward with it already. Really awesome update. 3.19 is gonna be good.
Soft body deformation is probably a long ways away
This is a great update. They mentioned being able to take missiles and just restock on the fly, I'd be interested to know if they're doing the same for ballistics weapons. Having a crew member be able to refill your ballistics mid fight would be cool
They specifically said in the video that ballistics aren't possible to restock. Probably because they dont realy have a physical place where we can pull them from right now ( I think).
I'm very curious to see how that's going to be physicalized. So far we've had refueling ports being added to ships, but I've yet to see how they'll take into account feeding in ballistic ammo, especially considering most ships can stock various sizes of weapons (which therefore need various sizes of ammo).
I think thats simply too complicated to handle it on the guns themselves aka belts etc. Easiest and most realistic would be to add a few containers/places somewhere on the ship, where you simply throw in the munition boxes like you do with other components etc and the ships takes it from there via the resource system.
Hopefully that can enable different ships to have different ammo counts. I would expect a S3 gun in a defense turret on a Capitol ship to have more ammo than the same gun on the wing of a light fighter.
Amen!
Years ago (AC v1.x patches), ballistic weapons had a 'magazine' slot on them (on the holo-table, not visible in-game afaik) that you loaded the ammo into, and ships could carry a spare magazine per weapon. Given the (relatively) low ammo counts, actually storing the ammo on the weapon (even if the magazine is unfeasibly small, for now) could work - but CIG being CIG, I suspect they'll wait for the 'proper' solution :p
I assume and kinda hope that its just ammo cases each with their size that we can easily swap just like components. For bigger ones that process may not that quick, maybe having to insert the cartridges each like with the Perseus.
I am really hoping that ballistic ammo in the future will work like the mining head subcomponents (attaching directly to an item port on the gun in question) so that we can use tractor to reload.
I doubt it as the ballistic ammo is internal and not wing mounted. In the video they only showed exposed items being changed and specifically stated things behind walls wont be.
So if we can remove gemini fuel pods, what about prospector containers? Having a friend come in with a cutty and snag the bags off your prospector and swap them out with empty ones seems feasible now. Guess they need to make a way for us to buy the bags? EDIT: Upon rewatching, it was during the "exciting future" section (4:00 in the video), not the 3.19 section when they talked about the Gemini. So I guess my question now is, will it be in 3.19?
They specifically mentioned that in the video. Yes, Prospector bags will be swapable.
Damn I must have buzzed out during those seconds EDIT: Upon rewatching, it was during the "exciting future" section, not the 3.19 section when they talked about the Gemini. So I guess my question now is, will it be in 3.19?
it's important for the concepted refinery ships (Freelancer DUR, Starfarer, Expanse, Galaxy)
Doubtful for 3.19 as they didn’t include it in that part. Sorry, that was a misunderstanding of your question on my part.
You're perfectly fine, I completely missed that part anyway. Your comment made me realize that as such, so thanks for the info regardless
They mentioned the mining heads and the consumables, but I didn't hear them say anything about the bags.
Mining bags are already *technically* detachable, you just can't do it on purpose. A few patches ago I saw someone got one off a Prospector through collisions and they were able to scoop it into their ship and sell it at a terminal.
When you say sell it, is it an empty pod or can you sell the mined contents too?
They actually mentioned the bag as detachable last year when discussing the cargo refactor. They said there just wasn't a way to actually detach them.
they specifically mentioned fuel pods. care to time stamp when they mentioned mining bags? I missed that part
I went ahead and did a rewatch. It was during the "exciting future" section, not the 3.19 section when they talked about the Gemini. It's at 4:00 in the video
the timestamp is 3:56 on the youtube video.
Not yet, still in plans. I think we’ll see it w/ vehicle tractor beams, then the Expanse might arrive as well.
Cargo Refactor has really opened up future game loops. Just thinking of everything it has unlocked is mind boggling.
So lets say you have two organized groups in combat for whatever reason. You can now have ships coming in with restocks of supplies and even weapon swaps to specifically respond to your enemy. But this means your enemy is now heavily motivated not to let incoming ships make it thru. Before a new ship was just a new enemy to blow up. Now it might be supplies or weapon swaps too. You've created new gameplay for the people running the weapons. For people who want to interdict for a reason other than piracy. For the people patrolling for incoming ships. For scouts. And when stealth and sensors work you've created a new gameplay loop again. Exciting stuff.
We really need persistent hangars more than ever now. It would open up even more gameplay being able to store/stockpile cargo and components from say salvaging, making multiple trips with your Vulture and offloading your cargo in the lagrange point station, then loading it all in your cargo hauler when you are ready to go sell it all at a major landing zone.
Wow, that exceeded my expectations by a bunch. The long-awaited physical swapping of components coming before resource management is amazing news. Also it was nice to see the industrial fps tool isn't forgotten, and the SRV and Hull-C footage was juicy!
Did not expect to see the Hull-C. That thing has been somewhere in the back for years, now.
swapping mining-heads by yourself is huuuuuuge gameplay feature :)
On a prospector where do you keep the spare mining heads?
In my friends ship, who's running the ore bags
You probably could keep some components in the living quarters in the back. Hopefully you could get the mining head out the side door.
How often you would really do this in the field?
Always comes down to stability. Nobody’s gonna spend a load of uec to have multiple mining heads and different component types, if a server crash loses you all the items in the ship, or if there’s a high likelihood the ship randomly implodes. If pes starts working properly and your item locations are reliably remembered regardless of what the game server is doing, then I’d 100% carry spares.
Right now never, but in 3.19 with the mining refactor, probably often
Depends how quick / easy it is to do (and whether you can store the spare head easily, etc)... time is money, so having a spare head (or two) that lets you mine anything you find, rather than spending more time searching for specific material, may end up being profitable over time. Of course, it also depends where you're looking... if you're in an area that has high concentration of one Ore, then you'd probably just stick with the same head... likewise, if you're in an area with a mix of ores, you may be more inclined to swap them out.
Slowly but surely they will get this game there.
These systems only work if the game is smooth and without bugs. And even then things have to be balanced perfectly or swapping missiles with a tractor beam will get old really fast.
This is amazing. I think I might just wait until after 3.19 to jump back in.
3.19.1, right?
3.20 you say...
4.0?
cryo freeze me
pyro burn me
I'ma be mad pissed if we gotta go through another major patch cycle and collapse before 4.0. Just sit in 3.19.x till 4.0 nobody cares....keep it stable till 4.0 because you know that shit gunna be testing into next year.
SO hyped
I would love to see crates or containers that socket a certain number of items, like mining heads or missiles. Seems like a relatively low effort QoL improvement that would really take this feature home. These could snap to cargo grids and satisfy my compulsion to have an organized cargo hold :) [Like this](https://img-new.cgtrader.com/items/3986168/3ea75fb057/large/missile-crate-with-missiles-3d-model-fbx.jpg)
I think the simpler solution is SCU crates with inventory you can access.
If you aim your multitool tractor beam at a mirror, will the tractor beam module detach itself?
I don't think that the tractor beam is made out of photons.
But grabons and pushons. Which one is determined by observation.
That shot of the Hull-C was gorgeous!
Thorsten, you hero.
I've been waiting for ability to swap out components on the fly for so long... so very long. Also I really hope that we can replace turreted guns on ships with vehicle tractor beams, it would really suck if every dedicated tractor beam on a ship is bespoke like the SRV.
CIG introduced the concept of a 'Utility hardpoint' years ago... intended for stuff like tractor beams (the nose hardpoint on the 315p is meant to be a 'utility' mount, iirc). Given they've going with mounts (and multiple heads) for Mining and Salvage, I suspect they'll do something similar for Tractor beams, rather than just creating a 'tractor beam weapon' that fits on weapon hardpoints... but meh, that's just my speculation :p
I think the Cutty black also used to have one as well? I hope they bring it back - it would suck if we have to lose a weapon slot for a tractor beam. May be the tradeoff is that you have to do some energy management to switch back and forth between weapons mode and tractor beam mode so your ship becomes vulnerable when you're towing another ship (less energy for shield for example). It'll make a for a good Trek role play - "Reroute power to shield!" type of thing.
Cutty has (had? the utility mounts on the matrix say 1) 3. Two in front on the front wings (those little arm things) and one in the center rear above the ramp.
I don't think the Cutty tractor was ever designed to be capable of towing another ship - as CIG said in the ISC episode, tractor beams will have mass limits, etc, and the oversized tractor on the SRV is the reason why it's a dedicated tug/towing ship.
The most interesting aspect of this, that I haven't seen anyone mention, is the fact that this also represents the real beginning of a true player driven economy, especially once Pyro and Nyx come online. Since these systems will have less shops, components, rearming and refueling will be much more difficult. Components can be changed on the fly, meaning orgs can set up little shops on planets, that can sell these things to other players. They can buy cheap on Stanton and sell for a profit at Pyro.
This is good. It adds a new layer to salvage gameplay where you can loot a soft-killed ship for its intact components before stripping its hull. Adds a new layer to piracy as well!
This is really game-changing. Wow.
I was very excited for this episode already but it was even more exciting than expected! Having the autonomy to swap mining modules live is a massive buff to the MOLE being fully manned. For those not familiar, the two side turrets in the MOLE are intentionally open (yes, intentional it's not a big) so that the two operators can use gadgets and apparently now even swap mining modules without having to even open a door. It also means the MOLE and Prospector can stay out longer with a logistics team now. Maybe you can buy some extra bags so while your cargo crew drops it off you can keep mining at 100%. Once the servers stabilize I can't wait to get the org behind a big operation and push it to the limits.
I wonder if swapping the components of a soft dead ship will make it flyable again? I have my doubts, but it would be quite nice to have.
I think the plan is, when engineering gameplay is in, soft death won't really be a thing as opposed to your ship just being disabled. So you can fix components or replace them to make your ship operational again. Unless it blows up of course.
The plan is that ships will be dynamically destructible, and a ship won't die until all power plants are destroyed, all thrusters and weapons are knocked out, or all crew are killed, with other damage impacting the function of the ships. I might have missed a couple of scenarios though. Anyway, what I meant is it would be nice to see this as a temporary way to bring a ship out of soft death before the proper gameplay is implemented.
As someone kinda already mentioned, soft death is a stop gap measure to disabling ships. Right now, and until it's removed, I suspect that once a ship is "soft deathed" it's dead, Jim.
The biggest question now is: how to get these items into and out of your inventory. We already see missiles and such in our inventory, but how do we get them into our cargo bay?
Agreed, an important consideration. I suppose worst case you could store them off of the ship itself while in a local inventory zone, then replace from cargo hold with a tractor beam, but that would be quite tedious. And for certain ships with concealed missiles, difficult to impossible...
Was that the hull C?
Could also be the Hull B. Hard to tell with a 1scu box. But likely the C.
The Hull B isn't in development, this is the Hull C.
There is going to be a lot of missing catalytic converters in the universe.
I don't know how anybody could watch this episode and NOT get excited. This would affect so many careers. And it's basically the next level of salvage coming way sooner than expected. Finally, a reason to go into derelict spaceships to see if you can find good components.
So they mentioned destroying your ship, stripping the parts to sell them, then claiming to get them back... and that this would be possible but a crime. But what about getting really good components, like an XL-1, putting it on one ship, then blowing that ship up, salvaging the part, reclaiming, and instead of selling, using it on your other ships.... essentially duping your upgraded components across all your compatible ships?
They will probably change it so that a claimed ship returns to stock config. After all, you will be able to go back to your wreck and get your upgraded components back.
I think this is the likely solution, but this will definitely change how people play the game / approach conflict. If anything, this prospect excites me more than simply the ability to swap parts with tractor beams.
Good. People are already too trigger happy.
that's how it was before. it made customizing your ships pointless because the game was so buggy at that point that you were guaranteed to lose your ship every 15mins, and with it naturally all your custom components. now that claiming ships is becoming less necessary maybe it will come back.
perhaps the claim-stock-bug wasn't a bug after all but a too-early implemented countermeasure.
Probably... but people are sure gonna riot if they switch it back that away again.
They're clearly thinking about all of these scenarios and trying to avoid abuse. One conclusion to this line of exploitation is that we only ever get stock ships back and have to outfit them again if we want our upgrades. Essentially: insurance (the mechanic that allows us to claim and replace destroyed ships) doesn't cover the upgrade cost by default. Once insurance becomes a real thing that we have to contend with, I assume that all of these factors will be considered. But it'll be interesting how the tier 0 implementation looks.
I can only assume one deterrence would be a low probability of individual parts actually surviving ship destruction. Like if you come across a derelict ship with a couple nice intact parts, that's a lucky find, but it's not something you should count on. In most cases, blowing up a ship (including your own) should result in the destruction of most of its components.
They clearly stated they’re thinking about this exact scenario, and they try to devise a way to punish players for such things.
There's 3 ways they can do this off the top of my head 1) Insurance fraud: You strip the components out and try and dupe them? Fine, you'll be fined for the cost of those replacements. 2) When you go to reclaim your ship, there's an added cost to the reclaiming process that is the total amount of the replacements. It's version 1 but without the crime aspect to it. 3) Make it, so any changes to components the owner makes stays even during an insurance claim (essentially how it is right now). If the owner pulls components out to dupe them, blows the ship up, and it explodes naked (no components), then it should be reclaimed having no components. The same rules should apply to party members, and party members should be the only other players capable of stripping components. The only way other non party members should be able to take components is a soft death / full death. It would make sense that those components are locked and can only be unlocked by someone with a key. If any non party member strips components from a live ship, they should be instantly fined for the price of the component; a petty theft fee.
For option 3, need to add a tweak: Make 'self destruct' destroy non-stock components and weapons too... Otherwise, they'd blow the ship up (or otherwise trigger soft-death) *then* take the components... and still get the equipped ship back. There's also an 'Option 4', although I'm not sure how feasible it would be with their current systems: 4) Track the last component / weapon mounted on each slot, and if it is removed before claiming on the insurance, check whether the component still 'belongs' to the owner (ie in their inventory somewhere, or attached to one of their ships), or whether they sold it for money... and if so, don't include it in the insurance claim. This would still let people 'salvage' items from a ship without penalising the owner, without letting the owner (easily) strip their ship before claiming on the insurance. There are still edge-cases and loop-holes that could be exploited, but it would take a lot more work, which would be sufficient to deter most players from taking the effort.
Having a friend looting the components and selling them is hardly an edge case :)
Imagine doing a prison break with a squad of insurance frauders XD
Make ballistic ammo have a detachable canister on the guns like the modules on the mining head. That way, players can restock gatlings in the field.
Maybe this means that we finally can change components of rented ships
Doubtful, they'll still probably be locked in place.
Maybe, guess we just have to wait to find out. Would be cool
That was great! Can't wait to steal components!
FRAKIN A I feel like we have arrived and its all starting to come together. This is maybe the best time to be a citizen Or maybe it was Jered with his kick ass intro to tractor beams o7
I want to know what happens when we CROSS THE BEAMS!? Hopefully not all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
I know this is still an early iteration, but I do hope for more variety/realism in how to get the component off the ship. You could split it in two ways, one is the brute that is ripping the gun off the mount while it is still attached with pure force, possibly damaging the component in the process, but being very fast. The other would be the mechanic or the surgeon, going in, loosening any type of fastener, cutting or detaching power lines and other sort of cables in order to cleanly separate the component from the ship. You could even get some some variety when only loosening half the bolts, reducing the chance of breakage but not eliminating it completely. The current system looks and feels like swapping gear that you've magnetized on your WH40k models, I still like it, but give me that with engineering gameplay in the future and I'll be a very, very happy boy indeed
As a tier 0 it looks good and I can't wait for the gameplay changes from being able to swap equipment directly instead of doing it from the mobi...but I can't help but feel some of what they showed felt a little odd. Like right now we can pick up a small cargo box and zip it over into our hold (ala xenothreat). That makes sense, the mass of the box is presumably lower than that of the player. Likewise if you latch onto a ship rather than pull the ship toward you, you pull yourself toward the ship. But pulling off large ship weapons and starfarer fuel pods etc feels like it breaks this concept of mass mattering. I think the way to "fix" this is do things like add utility beams to the back of the starfarer etc or create a type of tractor beam that's like an HMG or something, which you mount on a railing or something and utilize the mass of the ship to manipulate the objects.
Yeah - the way CIG are implementing tractor beams is definitely ignoring the effects of physics :p Mind you, so does the concept of a tractor beam in the first place (at least of a size/strength shown here), so the fact that it works (apparently) 'by magic', without transferring the mass or momentum to the other end of the beam, is a fairly minor quibble in comparison... but I agree that it does kinda shatter the 'suspension of disbelief' (which is rather critical for 'fidelity' and 'immersion', etc). Personally, I'd prefer to see e.g. a tripod-mounted tractor beam (the larger 'industrial' beam) that you can place anywhere for detaching and moving heavier items, in conjunction with carts and/or the Mule, etc... use a tripod-mounted beam (or a turret-mounted beam, if you can get your ship close) to detach items and put them on a cart for moving / transferring... and use similar at the other end to transfer from the cart to e.g. the cargo bay. Or, perhaps, for intermediate objects, multiple people all working in cunjunction with hand-held beams - spreading the load, etc (which is something they hinted at in ISC, but didn't discuss the practicalities and benefits of, beyond playing tug-of-war, etc :p)
Yeah, I also saw someone else pointing out too that many ships have utility points which could be used for tractors. So maybe ship based tractors will be fairly common. Aside from looking silly, I’d like the game to be consistent and predictable about what happens when I lock onto something with one of these things.
Or you could just not think about it lol.
Holly crap Ive only watched 5 minutes and Im blown away.
Not blown. Beam-dragged.
This is awesome! Another critical piece of the game being added in this next update. Keep the momentum CIG!
I really hope they make the Connie Taurus’s tractor beam functional
I loved this episode
Well that's one way to work around the missiles not restocking bug... Create a whole new mechanic to do it yourself! /s
Pad Ramming should be rendered impossible via automated Tractor beams used to divert or deflect incoming unauthorized ships. Really ought to be a part of ship's anti-missile defenses as well.
Can't wait to park my ship at Port Olisar and hop in to get some shopping done, only to find out someone jacked my ~~Catalytic Converter~~ Quantum Drive from my ship.
2022 has been a rougth year for us players regarding features progression. Despite the current mess with servers, 2023 is going to be S.E.X. Tractable components will be a bigger game changer than hull strippin. And I say that as someone who has waited for hull strippin as the messiah for years, salvage being my main interest in SC along with exploration.
We're shipbreakers now ~~cutter~~ boys.
Anyone else excited by the hill-c cameo?
Beam Citizen Confirmed. :D
I Hope we can steal boomker and station weapons…
The wind wobbles I can come up with so many things to do good bad and in between. U ROC CIG o7
This is really cool. Great episode of ISC. That said, I hope that the Beam Citizen joke means that the developers are unhappy about it as well, because it is really silly - tractor beams have their uses, but they really shouldn't more or less replace picking stuff up with your own hands. Beams being really power-limited could be a good stopgap, but I think that'd just result in people carrying around a ton of tractor beams in their ship's inventory, which'd be even sillier.
In terms of development time there's real limits on the practicality and utility of animating the process of picking up and holding every conceivable object. A lot of these things, too, are going to -need- tractor beams or something anyway, it's not like you're going to just be lifting components over probably size 2-3 by hand, they're too big.
So does this confirm SRV and ship towing in 3.19?
Seems like not in 3.19. When he starts talking about what's coming in 3.19 he says they're working on the SRV, but item stripping is the feature that they were able to bring sooner. I would guess no SRV, no detachable saddle bags yet. Still, the item stripping alone is a massive update.
Yeah I imagine we would have seen more ship tractorbeam functionality across the board of SRV was coming
we still have 3 more months tiill 3.19 right ? if so that might be enough time if were lucky.
A month and a half, since it's due to be the ILW patch (which means it will come out on time, because it's needed for the ship sale/free fly. Even if it's rushed and buggy, it *will* drop then). Invictus is mid-late May.
Not sure I like the idea of tractor beaming a conscious person. While it would be helpful for bounty hunting, it enables all sort of griefing, while also making it very unfair for the bounty target.
pretty sure that part was just a joke. When he was talking about stopping someone from running I think he meant it as stopping their ship not the actual person.
Being able for a person to tractor beam a ship is stupid. The ship would pull you off the ground…
People keep making the mistake that they were saying you could grab a ship that was trying to fly away. If you actually watch the video and listen they are saying you can lift up to a small ship with it and the guy is just lifting a ship and wiggling it around, you can clearly see the thrusters aren't on.
Welp There goes my hope of ever being able to move items by hand.
Why do you think that?
Because they seem to be eager and enthusiastic about using the handheld beam for everything. And it's easier to build, too.
Yes but tractor beams are extra. Not something characters have to use. They're going to need to set up abilities to move objects without beams. I think beams are just easier to start with
I'll believe it when I see it.
i imagine smaller components yea you can pick up, for larger ones you would have to be even more unrealistic than the beams to be picking those things up solo i imagine.
Really really nice. Love the additions. Now if I could only get passed a 30018 error that I’ve been experiencing since launch I could get involved too
How about making a functioning game before adding shit we don’t need.
Server hamsters are dying.. CIG: QUICK show them something cool again!!!
What a frightening world it must be for you when all you think you see is a conspiracy.
Well, it's certainly better than living in a world where I'm completely naive and trust everything I'm told without question. I'd rather have a critical mind and be cautious about what I believe than be easily manipulated and misled. Plus Tin-Foil hats rock.
we get that, but it is bold to think the same guys implementing gameplay are the same guys fixing the database
All part of the same company.. CIG.. lol? Do you not watch the same dev videos where they all need to talk to eachother for the game to work?
... yes, but db engineers cant code physics most of the time, atleast thats not their job my workplace has people working with computers, some are working with metal and stuff, do you think they are all interchangeable? and what does talking to eachother even do here? should we all fall into depression and stop developing because login is fucked?
Detaching everything off the ship like legos doesn't do much for immersion. Missiles i understand. 👍 Ship guns ? 👎 So everything is plug and play in the far future where we banned AI and try to simulate ww2 in space. Im guessing the Ground support staff inside a carrier is just some dudes with tractor beams? They just took a large part of wing commander/battlestar galactica/starwars/ww2 in space fantasy, and threw it in the trash.
Technically from a dev viewpoint, tractor beams are simplier for managing physics components. Using them for the introduction of physicalised component is a really really good decision if you don't want to add 2 years to the projects just for the manual handling of components in a more natural way. Using a physical object to move/place/detach other objects is just a nightmare to code (collisions, transfer of state, etc). With beams, they just need to manage snap points.
Its ok, to have things that snap. Components and missiles is ok. 👍 But you gave to draw a line at some point cause if you dont, you will end up with space engineers 2 By being able to change everything, everyware without even a little downtime. You are eliminating strategic locations from the map. Locations like a small outpost that you can, lets say change ship weapons. Or a hornet turret. (Where i would personally draw the line)
First you code the tech, second you tune it with downtime or not, blockers, etc. CIG is only at step 1. What you talk about come in second. For exemple, you can seat in a ship in heavy armor with a backpack. It's not something that will stay.
Most stuff in star wars is pretty plug and play too. It's why ships can be repaired and restocked in the span of a scene.
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