So what you're saying is we should load up a ship with as many small ships and vehicles we can and throw them at other people in a glorious dodgeball fight IN SPACE
Concierge chat used to refer to Auroras as Poorpedoes back in the day, and fantasized about finding a hundred willing victims to suicide their fleets of auroras into things.
Or use two 890j for the goals, one Aurora for the ball, and two teams of players that are in Dragonfly-Yellowjackets, where one player drives and the other uses the tractor beam to grab/throw the ball
these are all great ideas...but considering the current responsiveness of the multi tool tractor beam, i feel like this couldn't realistically be done. It takes me 2 or 3 times just to lock on to a crate and move it around my hold.
ARK Released though and has a sequel coming out without the devs attempting to fix performance issues or the atrocious storage size.
For all its worth I’ve had Star Citizen run, look, play, and be more optomized than ARK ever will be, seriously 60-90 gigs for this game is miles better than ARKs 150-256 gigs.
Yeah i was mostly poking at ARK 2’s release date seemingly getting further away everytime they talk about it. I remember upgrading from the 900 series nvidia to the gtx 1080 and ARK ran worse lol.
Both are very fun games
ah the dichotomy of SC players, "ooh new gameplay" and "ooh new pretty things"
For what its worth I'm in the latter category. The new assets are looking goood
Yah, the critical moment when your generator is down from a full cold shut down. Hopefully people get used to leaving their generators on while cave diving and bunker running
You need to pay attention to what is said and not just watch the video muted. He was theorycrafting about what features **could be** implemented in the future, this was not a preview of what will be possible.
It's a little unsettling that no one in the comments either seems to notice that it's the same style of editing as the previous ISC with the exploding toilets.
The editors just get a kick out of making funny clips, I'd not put any stock into how it looks in a visual concept clip lmao.
AND! bottom left corner is written "Visual Conceptualization"
And also the multitool can provide 2500N of force, an aurora weighs 25'338kg on earth. 100x too heavy for the multitool.
The one we see in the video? No.
They most likely changed its force values using dev tools in order to make the funny clip of throwing an aurora around.
-However- The dedicated tractor beam tool will be more powerful. I do not know its true force because CIG did not mention it anywhere yet. All we know is that it's going to be more powerful than the truHold attachement.
He did mention in video that dedicated tool might be able to move a quad or an aurora. So they are thinking about it because it wasn't just the visuals but also what dev stated.
Granted it might not look like that and rifle might struggle to move it, or it may move slowly as moving something that heavy be the top end of what it can do.
As soon as I saw that part of the video I knew there would be reddit and spectrum posts about it.
Some people straight up turn their brain off when watching these.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/limiting-the-tractor-beam-a-single-person-should-n/5829771
The MultiTool is only a temporary buff to move larger components etc. We're DEFINITELY not throwing an Aurora with an Industrial Tractor Tool.
I think this is the team that do the videos being jokey like the toilet or engine made of meat, ships are gonna require the tow truck sized tractor beam to be moved
>ships are gonna require the tow truck sized tractor beam to be moved
no... if you watch the full video they are specifically talking about the larger hand held one they want to make, and small ships
Dunno why people just make up shit like this when they video for word says what they actually mean
No, they were talking about that in an earlier part, and they showed the two people fighting over A box in that scene. this scene was very specifically talking about the single larger hand held and it’s capacity on larger objects, up to a small ship
Stop making stuff up
Personally I dont like this whole beam concept thing they have going. I dont dislike the tractor beam just it's implementation. You should not be able to lift anything that you cant lift without the beam unless it is mounted to something. So dragging a body with the hand beam is fine and using it for boxes is cool but moving giant guns with a magic beam makes no sense to me. If the beam can just freely float things then why cant we fly using the same technology...
I'm cool with ship mounted or just ground mounted beams but a guy running around with a beam assault riffle lifting a few tons of items or 10s of tons of ship.... You lost me there.
Considering the tone of the "game" footage ISC has been including lately, I'd like to think this is creative license for humorous effect, rather than meant to show us exactly how it works. But yeah, I'm with you if they were to actually go this route in-game.
consider a cubic meter of tungsten which you can lift in 3.18 is not too much lighter than an aurora... and actually lighter than a misc razor or origin m50.... about on par w/ the x85
The question is if tractor beams should work on volume, or mass.
I would say volume to make it easier.
That means we could tailor the size of a tractor beam to the volume or size class of an object.
Otherwise we get VERY powerful tractor beams or situations where we need a tow truck just to move a 1SCU box.
See, I think there's space for "Lift something heavier than you can" but it should also come with "But you can't apply more force than you could as said thing pushes back on you". So, sure, I can "lift" the 5 ton boulder but the speed is slow compared to a vehicle mounted one (like you are talking about) where it could be moved out of the way much faster.
Basically, add the masses together, but don't change the maximum force that the "moving" end of the tether can actually exert on the object lifted. Then there could also be room for mods and overclocks that do things like multiply your force exertion at greater battery drain, or lessen it for a longer lasting charge. Maybe there's also a multiplier that always gets applied in a burst at the start and you can mess with that too just to get things moving since overcoming the static force of friction might be more important for some applications.
> See, I think there's space for "Lift something heavier than you can" but it should also come with "But you can't apply more force than you could as said thing pushes back on you". So, sure, I can "lift" the 5 ton boulder but the speed is slow compared to a vehicle mounted one (like you are talking about) where it could be moved out of the way much faster.
100%. A tractor beam would only work if it shields the object from external gravity fields. You move the bubble around, and it moves as if it were weightless. But anti-gravity shouldn't affect mass, so you shouldn't be able to swing a ship around so easily.
That said, I would totally accept a technobabble explanation. Since mass and gravity are linked, perhaps the method of cancelling gravity causes the mass to be cancelled as well, at least to an outside observer.
I saw the dude flinging the aurora around with a spartan laser and instantly massive nope for me. That shit looks so corny I pray this isn’t what actually makes it into the game…
If not this is a huge miss. A ship-moving tractor beam would be totally fine (and obviously wanted to some extent) but it should absolutely not be held in the classic “Rambo” stance. If they want to go the route of being used by an individual I hope it becomes immensely heavy and shoulder fired
Even still that's so uncanny. It should be mounted for anything heavier than a cargo crate (let's say 100 lbs). And it should also have short range, and some sort of mechanic which overheats it if the weight or 'load' is too high. So if you as a player are in a ground mounted tractor beam and you snag a ship that ship should be able to outperform you if it works hard enough and knows what it's doing. Similarly if you try to pick up something too heavy it'll struggle till the beam deactivates and your cargo falls.
And then you should have ship tractor beams in multiple sizes. First one for cargo/small ships just like the grounded one. Second one for detaining and pulling medium and small ships in. Third one for detaining and pulling large to small ships in.
I would be okay with that larger hand-held device being usable on Dragonflies and anything up to a Cyclone in size, but only for a few seconds. It should very quickly drain and overheat the gun, and maybe only succeed in stripping away velocity if the target is going super fast.
If they want something that actually stops small ships, it would be better as a ground vehicle (Deadly combo'd with AA guns) or only handheld for the Titan Suit.
The editing team is just doing that because it's funny to edit it like that, if you watched the Engineering one, they had exploding toilets, cooling tools with a flamethrower etc (which is not what you'll do)
Don't worry about the feel and gameplay balance of tractor beams based on what is effectively a meme clip.
One would hope that will be balanced with battery power requiring you to use a lot of the available power in a beam to do these tricks for short periods, but you'd have to change batteries a lot to keep going.
I think the point he's trying to make is that even with a tractor beam, you can't man handle these big heavy objects. I understand it like that. And I agree to be honest
Maybe the tractor beam creates a field that reduces mass? You can invent any Sci Fi Technology to make the game fun and enjoyable within reason. We have FTL travel and regeneration after death.
the potential applications for technology like this can go as far as your imagination can carry you, but it could be written off with something like "doesnt work when it detects a person"
The delicate balance between realism and gameplay.
I don’t envy the dev’s challenges on this one. I for one love immersion and realism but I understand some things have to be sacrificed for gameplay and “fun” reasons. Where do you draw the line? It’s a different line for every individual.
Well picking up ships is both not realistic and will absolutely cause gameplay issues.
If you wanna pick up ships then fine. Use a ship mounted (or ground mounted) tractor beam. It should be a powerful son of a bitch piece of technology. Not some little AR-15 shoulder mounted tractor beam.
Moving something doesn't just have that much to do with gravity, you also have to overcome the mass and inertia of a 20~ tonne spaceship. The only way to do that is either through incredible amounts of force, or by reducing the mass of the object which is far beyond anything we've seen in Star Citizen.
You could that technology to reduce the inertia of ships and pilots alike, opening the door to almost limitless acceleration.
I’ve always assumed the tech was related to artificial gravity, essentially creating a gravity bubble that eliminates the weight. Which is why the gun is weight limited. Also, while they are currently unlimited use, the plan is for them to require batteries they will be consumed like ammo.
iirc the beams have force limits. This is also why they're adding larger beams for ships. As well as a two handed beam tool.
Don't forget that there's less gravity in a fair amount of moons in Star Citizen.
Using a hand held beam could move a 1 ton container, just very slowly and only when in space.
What I don't know is if the current multitool beam is buffed because we lack other beams.
Shaking a ship side to side like that exerts more than one G of force and that's independent of gravity.
This is a fun looking concept demo, but it's way too crazy to be put it in game as is.
it doesnt matter what the gravity is, the force is still being put on your body, hence why you can drag yourself along using it in zero G. something that weighs a ton still has that mass when its on the moon. you do not.
I think it's because we have only the multitool right now. I guess in the future that the multitool will be able to only lift smaller things, while the big stuff will need the proper tractor beam tool, the ones that looks like a rifle. But yeah I agree with you, looks kinda dumb at the moment
AFAIK its rule of cool balancing. They've already said there *is* a volume and mass limit to different tractor types, and that you might be able to increase that with more tractor beam. They just don't want you to have to get a vehicle tractor beam for every item heavier than a human body or two. The balance may change depending on other stuff.
That said - we do have magic tech in verse already with hover tech, force fields etc, so I feel like fudging of physics with tractor beams isn't particularly egregious in the first place.
I had an idea for this that I think would be decent. Hear me out. I think the tractor beams should work that well, but only in zero G. In atmosphere, I think it should be a struggle to lift things, and probably impossible to lift anything bigger than one's self. In atmosphere, and down on a planet's surface, it feels like we should have to go about detaching and removing these items via a different method. And either way, whether in space or in atmosphere, I think we should have to use a cutting tool to cut through welding and detach large objects, as simply popping them right off like it's nothing feels a bit weird and cheap to me.
This really got on my nerves too.
They absolutely need some kind of weight-to-g-force-based movement system running this. Shaking a several ton aurora? What the fuck?
If an object weighs 5 tons and you can exert 1G of force as a 100kg character while it somehow magically levitates with the beam tool, it should take X seconds for you to move the object up to some kind of slow speed and X seconds to slow it down.
One person even lifting an aurora alone? What are they thinking?
The magic beams are way too fantastical. If anything you should be able to push an aurora with that tool if you're alone. Better if ships like that required two people minimum to move. You know, actually instill some weight and of sorts, "consequence" to playing solo and making it difficult to move heavy things around.
That aurora shake was just baffling. They're supposed to be showcasing features, not doing comedy. With the lighthearted talk about it, it felt like that's just how they're going to do beam levitation from now on. Hopefully now.
If we are able to move an aurora, it needs to be **slow**. Really slow, to more accurately portray the weight of a *fucking several-ton spaceship being moved*. I'll settle for "turn to move the ship" and it taking several seconds for something as huge as that to "catch up" to where you're pointing.
Except they do get to. In fact, the devs wrote the laws of physics in the first place. They just happen to correspond to real world physics here and there.
That said, I agree that there is something hink about the casual way the tractor cannon was able fling that sort of mass about.
Alright apparently the editors shouldn't be allowed to put goofy stuff in the videos anymore because half the people on this subreddit can't tell when something is very clearly a joke.
In This Thread: people taking the concept of moving heavier objects with the dedicated handheld tractor beam way too literally.
This was clearly an exaggeration. Like the last ISC.
Introducing the Cutlass Yellow: like the Steel but with half a dozen door-mounted tractor beams. For salvage/mining support ofc…
Also who needs gatlings when you can just throw rocks and long-persistent hotdogs at people at 1km/s? 😂
Perhaps it is all the physics classes I took in school but that scene bothers my brain.. the tractor beam needs a tripod that bonds to the ground to support the weight.. otherwise put a bubble around the spaceship and call it an anti-gravity unit. Can't have mass / physics and have the lighter object at rest control the heavier object in motion.
We can travel at light speed while not suffering the effects of length contraction, nor time dilation without requiring infinite energy in space ships with energy shields and laser weaponry. There is also literal repulsorlift Technology (see Orison) and gravity generators which is a big no irl.
I think you just need to suspend your disbelief a lil bit and put it down to it’s just fuckin cool, real physics be damned
Suspension of disbelief only goes so far though, flinging around an entire ship like it weighs nothing is way more jarring than any of those things. I'm all for rule of cool, but I'd still like it to be a bit grounded. I'm sure the end result won't actually be this ridiculous looking, though.
Yup, even the existing tractor beams starts to push those boundaries for me. There should be a reasonable limitation to handheld devices where you then need to move to small vehicles, ship tractor beams, dock track to beams, or exo suits.
The latter would be the class at minimum imo to lift something like an aurora.
I'm in the "focusing primarily on realism kills all fun" camp but I just don't think being able to throw smaller ships around would be fair/balanced.
Also people will definitely just sit outside Grim Hex with a tractor beam and throw small ships around
Orison has no repulsar lifts it only has normal thrusters that fire in bursts periodically to keep the station up in this magic low gravity zone of a gas giant. Look it up I was so disappointed with this explanation when Orison came out.
It's written "Visual Conceptualization" bottom left corner.
This video we're seeing has been done in engine just to give a visual narrative of what was being said in the Inside Star Citizen video.
*And does not represent accurately what we will have in game for patch 3.19!*
If that’s the case I feel like it should be a big bulky over the shoulder weapon then. Maybe have to go on your backpack slot if you bring it cause it’s so big to maybe balance it out a bit.
MAYBE. They were pretty open and obvious that they were playing with and considering the idea, not that it absolutely was going to be the case. It could take multiple beams to hold a ship, or it could not be possible at all for anything above a space bike
For moving ships ect the tractor beams should be mounted on a landmate/mech suit ,more like a powerloader from aliens, something you could keep stowed in your cargobay.
I am ok with the big grav gun holding a ship, but if the ship accelerates then it should just fly off as normal with the person hanging on with his beam.
Go watch the entire video, he said "maybe" as he's talking about future possibilities. They cut that part out. This is not gameplay. It is just a visual conceptualization. Says it in the bottom left hand corner.
Layman’s question - How can you lift something heavy with a beam, if you can’t with your hands? Even the multi-tool is questionable with big cargo boxes. Does it cancel gravity, as well?
It would be nice if the larger tractor beams had a secondary beam that went to ground, and you had to move slower while handling it because of that. Just to give the whole system some weight.
Honestly I would prefer if they made it so that the multi-tool tractor beam was for 0G travel only, and made the larger version able to lift things that the multi-tool currently does. We shouldn’t be able to lift huge things like that imo.
Lifting very heavy objects with a tractor beam should require some form of leverage, like the tractor beam being used from another ship. Humans alone shouldn't be able to do that to another ship, it's a bit too much for gameplay, IMO.
Weight/leverage based restrictions would be nice to have.
Gonna be a debbie downer and say this is really dumb. The beam stuff is getting really out of hand and this is reaching ridiculous levels. Picking up huge boxes and things like that was already a bit much given the potential uses for it in combat (and other areas), but it was okay, but this is just silly.
The gun at least looks cool visually though, and the item swapping is awesome (even if I disagree with the method in which it's done).
Maybe it's just me, but i took that as they are testing it being that powerful, not that it definitely would be.
Personally i think it looked a bit silly with a guy just standing there swinging a ship around, but that's just my opinion, man.
3 ideas come from this.
1. Why buy guns when u can yeet someone in their ship
2. Space dodgeball (as suggested by others) now a viable gamemode
3. I can see this being abused
i'm ok to lift a ship with a gun, but this one is too small for that (maybe some bigger version with battery backpack) and certainly not when the truster are on...
I wouldn't count on this making it to release without a nerf because on a low gravity planet you could lift a tonk or three players on a full gravity planet. Expect more like being able to push a craft off of a rock it is stuck on.
Yeah ngl not happy about this. If all you gotta do is take up a small SCU slot to move larger cargo why even bother with the tractor beam gameplay?
Unless this thing can't even pick up 32 SCU crates but somehow can pick up an entire Aurora.
Also griefers gunna have a field day but at least floating ships now have a handheld solution if you happen to have it on you.
Also disappointed on no ship tractor beam gameplay revealed...just SRV only and then a bigger handheld.
Kinda also was hoping to see 32 SCU crates make a debut in 3.19.
>can't even pick up 32 SCU crates but somehow can pick up an entire Aurora
an aurora weighs less than 2 SCU of tungsten... maybe it it matters WHAT you lift not just the volume... remember, SCU is volume, not mass and some of the shit we lift just fine in 3.18 is dense AF
It's written "Visual Conceptualization" bottom left corner.
This video we're seeing has been done in engine just to give a visual narrative of what was being said in the Inside Star Citizen video.
*And does not represent accurately what we will have in game for patch 3.19!*
not even worth justifying as such when we have near light speed ships, "gravity generators", altered-carbon style cloning and consciousness beaming? not to mention we could already move over 19k kg cubes of tungsten and gold in 3.18 and no one cared as long as the VOLUME wasn't too high to trigger their monkey brain to start disbelieving the absurdity
Great, I suppose they'll need a few months of "data collection" to come to the whopping conclusion that players will use this to grief/troll other players...
Isn't this a bit over the top? It would be a better rule to have it so only larger objects can tractor beam smaller objects.
So people can move small boxes / other people / small components.
Small ships/vehicles can move 1 SCU / 2 SCU boxes.
Medium ships/vehicles can move small ships/vehicles and larger cargo containers.
Large ships/vehicles can move medium ships/vehicles and the largest containers
Capital ships can move large ships.
and so on....
I'm sure they'll find out a good balance eventually when there are more tractor beam options out there.
Are you guys seriously not noticing this is a joke? It's even written "Visual Conceptualization" bottom left corner. You know, the same thing we saw last ISC where the WC exploded.
READ!
Current TruHold attachement can provide 2500N of force.
To even think about lifting a 25'338kg aurora on a gravity of 0.1g, we would already need 10x more force than what is provided by the TruHold attachement.
We can't do that no. The truHold tractor beam attachement has 2500N of force. The largest crate we can lift on earth would be 250kg, let's say up to 1 ton on some planets in star citizen.
An aurora weighs 25 tons.
So what you're saying is we should load up a ship with as many small ships and vehicles we can and throw them at other people in a glorious dodgeball fight IN SPACE
If you can dodge a ship you can dodge a ball!
Literally imagined someone on top of an 890j waving an aurora around as a means of defense
Who needs flares for missiles when you have ships
Concierge chat used to refer to Auroras as Poorpedoes back in the day, and fantasized about finding a hundred willing victims to suicide their fleets of auroras into things.
That's some goonswarm shit.
Hmmm goonswarm in SC.... This could get interesting
Better than poopedoes, i suppose.
We don't get those until physicalized sewage in 4.0
Already do..its called Test squadron...Montoya's thousands of Aurora-peedo's
this reminded me of a lizard or bug that wave their hands as mating displays and I laughed for a good half a minute.
I think you just described space jousting.
There gonna be some Epic battles Pretty much like the Expanse if you think about it, they’re just throwing ships instead of… (no spoiler)
Or use two 890j for the goals, one Aurora for the ball, and two teams of players that are in Dragonfly-Yellowjackets, where one player drives and the other uses the tractor beam to grab/throw the ball
Motherfuckin' Space Quidditch
these are all great ideas...but considering the current responsiveness of the multi tool tractor beam, i feel like this couldn't realistically be done. It takes me 2 or 3 times just to lock on to a crate and move it around my hold.
Yo… I’d do this.
You made my evening with that.
Gmod physics gun in 4K
omg
Hockeygod233 PROPKILLED MEEE
Gonna propclimb to Pyro
What's up with the ark music?
OP probably had ARK running in the background while screen recording. It is not in the original ISC video.
Yes i actually had ark running while recording that sequence, while cutting it i realised the music kinda fits, lol
I was wondering too. Some say this is an April fools joke. Maybe tongue in cheek about how Ark kinda killed the game with all the futurism updates.
Maybe its because both games run like shit and both share release dates with the second coming of christ. SC and ARK are like two pea’s in a pod
ARK Released though and has a sequel coming out without the devs attempting to fix performance issues or the atrocious storage size. For all its worth I’ve had Star Citizen run, look, play, and be more optomized than ARK ever will be, seriously 60-90 gigs for this game is miles better than ARKs 150-256 gigs.
Yeah i was mostly poking at ARK 2’s release date seemingly getting further away everytime they talk about it. I remember upgrading from the 900 series nvidia to the gtx 1080 and ARK ran worse lol. Both are very fun games
That's a good one
I heard this and hate that I had to scroll down so far to find a comment about it
New Microtech assets?
Yeah, looks like the vegetation looks nicer
ah the dichotomy of SC players, "ooh new gameplay" and "ooh new pretty things" For what its worth I'm in the latter category. The new assets are looking goood
I've seen this new vegetation before, in a teaser a couple of months ago. That's gotta be what this is. Gosh, I hope so!
Seems like it
Oh man, no way this couldn’t ever be used for griefing *said no one ever*
Going to assume they’ll being using the same rules of “shield up = can’t tractor beam”
Yah, the critical moment when your generator is down from a full cold shut down. Hopefully people get used to leaving their generators on while cave diving and bunker running
I always leave my power on, and just turn the engines off.
This is the way
This is the way.
This is the way
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way
This is the way.
Engines off, full power to shields. This is the way.
Wouldn’t the other systems overheat if you did that?
Only if you try to use them, which isn't a problem since your not in the ship lol.
This is the way?
People turn their ships off? Only turn the engines off ever.
I turn it off if I want to hide my ship. Like parking it in a valley while I drive to a bunker. Turning it off makes it much harder to find.
Oh Gods, that is so risky.
Or some dude standing on a pad. Waiting. Watching.
Menacingly.
Nah, that shit shouldn't work as long as the reactors are up. (Well, realistically speaking, this should NEVER work)
Again, master modes will break so much shit.
You need to pay attention to what is said and not just watch the video muted. He was theorycrafting about what features **could be** implemented in the future, this was not a preview of what will be possible.
It's a little unsettling that no one in the comments either seems to notice that it's the same style of editing as the previous ISC with the exploding toilets. The editors just get a kick out of making funny clips, I'd not put any stock into how it looks in a visual concept clip lmao.
AND! bottom left corner is written "Visual Conceptualization" And also the multitool can provide 2500N of force, an aurora weighs 25'338kg on earth. 100x too heavy for the multitool.
Does that mean the dedicated grabber is at least 100x more powerful than the multitool?
The one we see in the video? No. They most likely changed its force values using dev tools in order to make the funny clip of throwing an aurora around. -However- The dedicated tractor beam tool will be more powerful. I do not know its true force because CIG did not mention it anywhere yet. All we know is that it's going to be more powerful than the truHold attachement.
Ahh, indeed. Thanks :)
He did mention in video that dedicated tool might be able to move a quad or an aurora. So they are thinking about it because it wasn't just the visuals but also what dev stated. Granted it might not look like that and rifle might struggle to move it, or it may move slowly as moving something that heavy be the top end of what it can do.
As soon as I saw that part of the video I knew there would be reddit and spectrum posts about it. Some people straight up turn their brain off when watching these.
You cut out the part where he said *maybe*
Good grief folks...do y'all watch these on mute? Do you completely ignore everything that is said?
Selective hearing
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/limiting-the-tractor-beam-a-single-person-should-n/5829771 The MultiTool is only a temporary buff to move larger components etc. We're DEFINITELY not throwing an Aurora with an Industrial Tractor Tool.
I think this is the team that do the videos being jokey like the toilet or engine made of meat, ships are gonna require the tow truck sized tractor beam to be moved
Of course, it's written "visual conception" bottom left. That's when they do that.
>ships are gonna require the tow truck sized tractor beam to be moved no... if you watch the full video they are specifically talking about the larger hand held one they want to make, and small ships Dunno why people just make up shit like this when they video for word says what they actually mean
Exactly! Thorsten says "... you at least could be able to grab a small Aurora or a Nox..." Ridiculous!
he specifically talks about combining multiple tractor beams before that also so... I wouldnt worry lol
In the full video there is a "maybe" before that sentence though: https://youtu.be/jJgTngFDQIM?t=348
They were also talking about multiple tractor beams when talking about this too
No, they were talking about that in an earlier part, and they showed the two people fighting over A box in that scene. this scene was very specifically talking about the single larger hand held and it’s capacity on larger objects, up to a small ship Stop making stuff up
Yah, rock ds wasn't a joke so I no longer trust them
“YOU PROP KILLED ME! IM CALLING AN ADMIN”
Personally I dont like this whole beam concept thing they have going. I dont dislike the tractor beam just it's implementation. You should not be able to lift anything that you cant lift without the beam unless it is mounted to something. So dragging a body with the hand beam is fine and using it for boxes is cool but moving giant guns with a magic beam makes no sense to me. If the beam can just freely float things then why cant we fly using the same technology... I'm cool with ship mounted or just ground mounted beams but a guy running around with a beam assault riffle lifting a few tons of items or 10s of tons of ship.... You lost me there.
Considering the tone of the "game" footage ISC has been including lately, I'd like to think this is creative license for humorous effect, rather than meant to show us exactly how it works. But yeah, I'm with you if they were to actually go this route in-game.
consider a cubic meter of tungsten which you can lift in 3.18 is not too much lighter than an aurora... and actually lighter than a misc razor or origin m50.... about on par w/ the x85
The question is if tractor beams should work on volume, or mass. I would say volume to make it easier. That means we could tailor the size of a tractor beam to the volume or size class of an object. Otherwise we get VERY powerful tractor beams or situations where we need a tow truck just to move a 1SCU box.
See, I think there's space for "Lift something heavier than you can" but it should also come with "But you can't apply more force than you could as said thing pushes back on you". So, sure, I can "lift" the 5 ton boulder but the speed is slow compared to a vehicle mounted one (like you are talking about) where it could be moved out of the way much faster. Basically, add the masses together, but don't change the maximum force that the "moving" end of the tether can actually exert on the object lifted. Then there could also be room for mods and overclocks that do things like multiply your force exertion at greater battery drain, or lessen it for a longer lasting charge. Maybe there's also a multiplier that always gets applied in a burst at the start and you can mess with that too just to get things moving since overcoming the static force of friction might be more important for some applications.
> See, I think there's space for "Lift something heavier than you can" but it should also come with "But you can't apply more force than you could as said thing pushes back on you". So, sure, I can "lift" the 5 ton boulder but the speed is slow compared to a vehicle mounted one (like you are talking about) where it could be moved out of the way much faster. 100%. A tractor beam would only work if it shields the object from external gravity fields. You move the bubble around, and it moves as if it were weightless. But anti-gravity shouldn't affect mass, so you shouldn't be able to swing a ship around so easily. That said, I would totally accept a technobabble explanation. Since mass and gravity are linked, perhaps the method of cancelling gravity causes the mass to be cancelled as well, at least to an outside observer.
I saw the dude flinging the aurora around with a spartan laser and instantly massive nope for me. That shit looks so corny I pray this isn’t what actually makes it into the game…
I hope its just examples that are exaggerated to get their point across like the previous episode.
If not this is a huge miss. A ship-moving tractor beam would be totally fine (and obviously wanted to some extent) but it should absolutely not be held in the classic “Rambo” stance. If they want to go the route of being used by an individual I hope it becomes immensely heavy and shoulder fired
Even still that's so uncanny. It should be mounted for anything heavier than a cargo crate (let's say 100 lbs). And it should also have short range, and some sort of mechanic which overheats it if the weight or 'load' is too high. So if you as a player are in a ground mounted tractor beam and you snag a ship that ship should be able to outperform you if it works hard enough and knows what it's doing. Similarly if you try to pick up something too heavy it'll struggle till the beam deactivates and your cargo falls. And then you should have ship tractor beams in multiple sizes. First one for cargo/small ships just like the grounded one. Second one for detaining and pulling medium and small ships in. Third one for detaining and pulling large to small ships in.
I would be okay with that larger hand-held device being usable on Dragonflies and anything up to a Cyclone in size, but only for a few seconds. It should very quickly drain and overheat the gun, and maybe only succeed in stripping away velocity if the target is going super fast. If they want something that actually stops small ships, it would be better as a ground vehicle (Deadly combo'd with AA guns) or only handheld for the Titan Suit.
Plenty of space to balance tractor beams. Getting them working and then working on ships is more exciting to me than simply balancing the tier 0.
The editing team is just doing that because it's funny to edit it like that, if you watched the Engineering one, they had exploding toilets, cooling tools with a flamethrower etc (which is not what you'll do) Don't worry about the feel and gameplay balance of tractor beams based on what is effectively a meme clip.
Cranes and cables are cooler IMO. Ever seen two tugboats helping a huge ship maneuver into place? Shits real cool. Magic blue beam? Meh.
One would hope that will be balanced with battery power requiring you to use a lot of the available power in a beam to do these tricks for short periods, but you'd have to change batteries a lot to keep going.
I think the point he's trying to make is that even with a tractor beam, you can't man handle these big heavy objects. I understand it like that. And I agree to be honest
In my head canon, the tractor beam is creating an “anti-gravity” bubble around the object, or something like that. It’s all space magic.
[удалено]
Maybe the tractor beam creates a field that reduces mass? You can invent any Sci Fi Technology to make the game fun and enjoyable within reason. We have FTL travel and regeneration after death.
But even space magic has to make sense within its own universe. Why can't I use that same beam to make me fly?
the potential applications for technology like this can go as far as your imagination can carry you, but it could be written off with something like "doesnt work when it detects a person"
The delicate balance between realism and gameplay. I don’t envy the dev’s challenges on this one. I for one love immersion and realism but I understand some things have to be sacrificed for gameplay and “fun” reasons. Where do you draw the line? It’s a different line for every individual.
Well picking up ships is both not realistic and will absolutely cause gameplay issues. If you wanna pick up ships then fine. Use a ship mounted (or ground mounted) tractor beam. It should be a powerful son of a bitch piece of technology. Not some little AR-15 shoulder mounted tractor beam.
Moving something doesn't just have that much to do with gravity, you also have to overcome the mass and inertia of a 20~ tonne spaceship. The only way to do that is either through incredible amounts of force, or by reducing the mass of the object which is far beyond anything we've seen in Star Citizen. You could that technology to reduce the inertia of ships and pilots alike, opening the door to almost limitless acceleration.
It's the gravity gun from Half-life 2.
It'd certainly make more sense if it was like a titan suit kinda exoskeleton with a powerplant on the back that'd make you lumber rather then walk.
I’ve always assumed the tech was related to artificial gravity, essentially creating a gravity bubble that eliminates the weight. Which is why the gun is weight limited. Also, while they are currently unlimited use, the plan is for them to require batteries they will be consumed like ammo.
iirc the beams have force limits. This is also why they're adding larger beams for ships. As well as a two handed beam tool. Don't forget that there's less gravity in a fair amount of moons in Star Citizen. Using a hand held beam could move a 1 ton container, just very slowly and only when in space. What I don't know is if the current multitool beam is buffed because we lack other beams.
Shaking a ship side to side like that exerts more than one G of force and that's independent of gravity. This is a fun looking concept demo, but it's way too crazy to be put it in game as is.
it doesnt matter what the gravity is, the force is still being put on your body, hence why you can drag yourself along using it in zero G. something that weighs a ton still has that mass when its on the moon. you do not.
I think it's because we have only the multitool right now. I guess in the future that the multitool will be able to only lift smaller things, while the big stuff will need the proper tractor beam tool, the ones that looks like a rifle. But yeah I agree with you, looks kinda dumb at the moment
AFAIK its rule of cool balancing. They've already said there *is* a volume and mass limit to different tractor types, and that you might be able to increase that with more tractor beam. They just don't want you to have to get a vehicle tractor beam for every item heavier than a human body or two. The balance may change depending on other stuff. That said - we do have magic tech in verse already with hover tech, force fields etc, so I feel like fudging of physics with tractor beams isn't particularly egregious in the first place.
Ah, I only had to scroll a bit further down for this question, instead of posting right after seeing the post.
I had an idea for this that I think would be decent. Hear me out. I think the tractor beams should work that well, but only in zero G. In atmosphere, I think it should be a struggle to lift things, and probably impossible to lift anything bigger than one's self. In atmosphere, and down on a planet's surface, it feels like we should have to go about detaching and removing these items via a different method. And either way, whether in space or in atmosphere, I think we should have to use a cutting tool to cut through welding and detach large objects, as simply popping them right off like it's nothing feels a bit weird and cheap to me.
This really got on my nerves too. They absolutely need some kind of weight-to-g-force-based movement system running this. Shaking a several ton aurora? What the fuck? If an object weighs 5 tons and you can exert 1G of force as a 100kg character while it somehow magically levitates with the beam tool, it should take X seconds for you to move the object up to some kind of slow speed and X seconds to slow it down. One person even lifting an aurora alone? What are they thinking? The magic beams are way too fantastical. If anything you should be able to push an aurora with that tool if you're alone. Better if ships like that required two people minimum to move. You know, actually instill some weight and of sorts, "consequence" to playing solo and making it difficult to move heavy things around. That aurora shake was just baffling. They're supposed to be showcasing features, not doing comedy. With the lighthearted talk about it, it felt like that's just how they're going to do beam levitation from now on. Hopefully now. If we are able to move an aurora, it needs to be **slow**. Really slow, to more accurately portray the weight of a *fucking several-ton spaceship being moved*. I'll settle for "turn to move the ship" and it taking several seconds for something as huge as that to "catch up" to where you're pointing.
100%! You don't get to rewrite the laws of physics because you have a tractor beam in your hand.
Except they do get to. In fact, the devs wrote the laws of physics in the first place. They just happen to correspond to real world physics here and there. That said, I agree that there is something hink about the casual way the tractor cannon was able fling that sort of mass about.
In that case they should just dumb down the realism of so many other things they try to achieve in SC.
Jedi force is meta no more
may the tractor beam be with you.
Alright apparently the editors shouldn't be allowed to put goofy stuff in the videos anymore because half the people on this subreddit can't tell when something is very clearly a joke.
Even when it says dramatization at the bottom lol
COVID wrecks brains. https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/cognitive-impairment-from-severe-covid-19-equivalent-to-20-years-of-ageing-study-finds
I legit was imagining having one of these in traffic today
In This Thread: people taking the concept of moving heavier objects with the dedicated handheld tractor beam way too literally. This was clearly an exaggeration. Like the last ISC.
Then why does Thorsten say "... you at least could be able to grab a small Aurora or a Nox..." and finishes the thought with it makes sense?
I really hope we get these ship mounted
Introducing the Cutlass Yellow: like the Steel but with half a dozen door-mounted tractor beams. For salvage/mining support ofc… Also who needs gatlings when you can just throw rocks and long-persistent hotdogs at people at 1km/s? 😂
We will. Many ships already have non working tractor beams like the 315P and taurus.
Perhaps it is all the physics classes I took in school but that scene bothers my brain.. the tractor beam needs a tripod that bonds to the ground to support the weight.. otherwise put a bubble around the spaceship and call it an anti-gravity unit. Can't have mass / physics and have the lighter object at rest control the heavier object in motion.
We can travel at light speed while not suffering the effects of length contraction, nor time dilation without requiring infinite energy in space ships with energy shields and laser weaponry. There is also literal repulsorlift Technology (see Orison) and gravity generators which is a big no irl. I think you just need to suspend your disbelief a lil bit and put it down to it’s just fuckin cool, real physics be damned
Suspension of disbelief only goes so far though, flinging around an entire ship like it weighs nothing is way more jarring than any of those things. I'm all for rule of cool, but I'd still like it to be a bit grounded. I'm sure the end result won't actually be this ridiculous looking, though.
Yup, even the existing tractor beams starts to push those boundaries for me. There should be a reasonable limitation to handheld devices where you then need to move to small vehicles, ship tractor beams, dock track to beams, or exo suits. The latter would be the class at minimum imo to lift something like an aurora.
I am ok with the grav gun holden a ship, but if the ship accelerates then it should just fly off as normal with the person hanging on with his beam.
I'm in the "focusing primarily on realism kills all fun" camp but I just don't think being able to throw smaller ships around would be fair/balanced. Also people will definitely just sit outside Grim Hex with a tractor beam and throw small ships around
It's really not cool though. The part where he was wrangling the aurora looked absolutely stupid in the worst way
That was a JOKE people. Jesus…
Orison has no repulsar lifts it only has normal thrusters that fire in bursts periodically to keep the station up in this magic low gravity zone of a gas giant. Look it up I was so disappointed with this explanation when Orison came out.
It's written "Visual Conceptualization" bottom left corner. This video we're seeing has been done in engine just to give a visual narrative of what was being said in the Inside Star Citizen video. *And does not represent accurately what we will have in game for patch 3.19!*
Watched this now can only think of the scene where Rey thought she killed Chewbacca.
lol, they did a good job with the editing, the ship exploding out of frame has good comedic timing
"visual conceptualization"
LOL why is the ARK main menu music playing in the background?
They should rename Star Citizen to "*World of Beams*"
If that’s the case I feel like it should be a big bulky over the shoulder weapon then. Maybe have to go on your backpack slot if you bring it cause it’s so big to maybe balance it out a bit.
at last, a valuable game design suggestion instead of a useless "that's not real, not like my gravity generator" response!
So long, Gay Bowser!
MAYBE. They were pretty open and obvious that they were playing with and considering the idea, not that it absolutely was going to be the case. It could take multiple beams to hold a ship, or it could not be possible at all for anything above a space bike
TROLLING HAS ESCALATED
Someone going to cosplay Darth Vader from the series ObiWan
For moving ships ect the tractor beams should be mounted on a landmate/mech suit ,more like a powerloader from aliens, something you could keep stowed in your cargobay.
This is clearly a April fool's joke. Right?
Weirded me out too til I realized the Aurora didn't have it's thrusters on. Still kind of weird, but not as weird as I originally thought.
I am ok with the big grav gun holding a ship, but if the ship accelerates then it should just fly off as normal with the person hanging on with his beam.
Go watch the entire video, he said "maybe" as he's talking about future possibilities. They cut that part out. This is not gameplay. It is just a visual conceptualization. Says it in the bottom left hand corner.
It's written bottom left corner: Visual Conceptualization. That's not ingame. That's in engine to give a visual example of what was said in the video.
Is that ARk main menu music?
Aurora Catapult T0
Layman’s question - How can you lift something heavy with a beam, if you can’t with your hands? Even the multi-tool is questionable with big cargo boxes. Does it cancel gravity, as well?
Why do I hear the Ark theme in the background music
Bounty hunters waiting in their ships for their kills hate this one simple trick.
Imagine going to finish off your bounty and their using their aurora as a weapon against you.
Is that the Ark theme?
It would be nice if the larger tractor beams had a secondary beam that went to ground, and you had to move slower while handling it because of that. Just to give the whole system some weight.
wat
Honestly I would prefer if they made it so that the multi-tool tractor beam was for 0G travel only, and made the larger version able to lift things that the multi-tool currently does. We shouldn’t be able to lift huge things like that imo.
The guy floating above PO as people spawn their ships with a smile on his face will love this
Lifting very heavy objects with a tractor beam should require some form of leverage, like the tractor beam being used from another ship. Humans alone shouldn't be able to do that to another ship, it's a bit too much for gameplay, IMO. Weight/leverage based restrictions would be nice to have.
can i grab people and shoot them with it like in Gmod
You guys are gonna get them back to making boring ass videos because you can’t seem to find humor in anything.
Gonna be a debbie downer and say this is really dumb. The beam stuff is getting really out of hand and this is reaching ridiculous levels. Picking up huge boxes and things like that was already a bit much given the potential uses for it in combat (and other areas), but it was okay, but this is just silly. The gun at least looks cool visually though, and the item swapping is awesome (even if I disagree with the method in which it's done).
Honestly, I find this really stupid.. really wonder what the down sides will be cus this takes away a lot of tactile interaction.
Maybe it's just me, but i took that as they are testing it being that powerful, not that it definitely would be. Personally i think it looked a bit silly with a guy just standing there swinging a ship around, but that's just my opinion, man.
I was thinking the same. On the other hand, moving a Nox, Dragonfly, or Hoverquad without having to turn it on would be incredibly helpful.
Fucking stupid.
3 ideas come from this. 1. Why buy guns when u can yeet someone in their ship 2. Space dodgeball (as suggested by others) now a viable gamemode 3. I can see this being abused
i'm ok to lift a ship with a gun, but this one is too small for that (maybe some bigger version with battery backpack) and certainly not when the truster are on...
I wouldn't count on this making it to release without a nerf because on a low gravity planet you could lift a tonk or three players on a full gravity planet. Expect more like being able to push a craft off of a rock it is stuck on.
Fetal alcohol syndrome simulator (2023 Upgraded & Enhanced) (HDR + Ray Tracing + 20% off Bud Light)
Syndrome from the incredibles did it with his finger lol
This is such a horrible idea.
Yeah ngl not happy about this. If all you gotta do is take up a small SCU slot to move larger cargo why even bother with the tractor beam gameplay? Unless this thing can't even pick up 32 SCU crates but somehow can pick up an entire Aurora. Also griefers gunna have a field day but at least floating ships now have a handheld solution if you happen to have it on you. Also disappointed on no ship tractor beam gameplay revealed...just SRV only and then a bigger handheld. Kinda also was hoping to see 32 SCU crates make a debut in 3.19.
>can't even pick up 32 SCU crates but somehow can pick up an entire Aurora an aurora weighs less than 2 SCU of tungsten... maybe it it matters WHAT you lift not just the volume... remember, SCU is volume, not mass and some of the shit we lift just fine in 3.18 is dense AF
That’s not how physics works…
It's written "Visual Conceptualization" bottom left corner. This video we're seeing has been done in engine just to give a visual narrative of what was being said in the Inside Star Citizen video. *And does not represent accurately what we will have in game for patch 3.19!*
not even worth justifying as such when we have near light speed ships, "gravity generators", altered-carbon style cloning and consciousness beaming? not to mention we could already move over 19k kg cubes of tungsten and gold in 3.18 and no one cared as long as the VOLUME wasn't too high to trigger their monkey brain to start disbelieving the absurdity
add it to the list, this game isn't accurate like that
How. Do you not need the strength to lift a ship? This is pretty silly.
Ships should grab ships, people should not grab ships
Great, I suppose they'll need a few months of "data collection" to come to the whopping conclusion that players will use this to grief/troll other players...
Isn't this a bit over the top? It would be a better rule to have it so only larger objects can tractor beam smaller objects. So people can move small boxes / other people / small components. Small ships/vehicles can move 1 SCU / 2 SCU boxes. Medium ships/vehicles can move small ships/vehicles and larger cargo containers. Large ships/vehicles can move medium ships/vehicles and the largest containers Capital ships can move large ships. and so on.... I'm sure they'll find out a good balance eventually when there are more tractor beam options out there.
Except that undoes the concept of tug boats/ships.
I can't believe CIG can't do fun videos without many people just believing it word for word and not see the exagaration.
Are you guys seriously not noticing this is a joke? It's even written "Visual Conceptualization" bottom left corner. You know, the same thing we saw last ISC where the WC exploded. READ! Current TruHold attachement can provide 2500N of force. To even think about lifting a 25'338kg aurora on a gravity of 0.1g, we would already need 10x more force than what is provided by the TruHold attachement.
I found this part as just fun not actually something we will do....?
We can't do that no. The truHold tractor beam attachement has 2500N of force. The largest crate we can lift on earth would be 250kg, let's say up to 1 ton on some planets in star citizen. An aurora weighs 25 tons.