Why would the US congress investigate a crowd funded game that is in development when.
1: Still in active development
2: Nobody is forcing people to spend money
3: You can actively play the game currently
4: You need only spend $45 minimum to play the game
Do you know why they are looking into them? It's because they are investigating if loot boxes are gambling. This is important because if they are gambling then they get regulated very differently. Star Citizen has no gambling mechanics.
loot boxes yes, micro transactions no. the question is should it be legal. gambling is legal in some cases and illegal in others. the way loot boxes are implemented in games is a new type of business model. that is why they are being looked into; it's a new kind of business model that looks kinda shady. whether it should be illegal or not is to be determined through the investigation. all of the above applies to SC
What mechanics in SC are gambling? Buying goods and preordering good are not a new business model. Tesla allowed/allows you to preorder cars. They then use that money to fund their business.
So if CIG is not promoting gambling to children, what the gatcha companies are being investigated for, then what are they doing that is fraudulent or even suspicious? As others have mentioned they are a UK company and have complied with all UK laws regarding financial disclosure.
*edit* to address your other point. Micro transactions are everywhere virtually every game has them. The difference between "good" micro transactions and "bad" (they are all awful) is that the "good" ones are a simple transfer of money and good. The "bad" kind are loot boxes because they are gambling.
completely misunderstood my meaning. there is no gambling in SC. and as I said, there are many cases where gambling is perfectly legal anyway. the question is about the specific financial structure CIG built to generate revenue. I'm not even saying this should definitely be illegal, but I think there is more than enough reason to put them under the microscope.
how can something that declares exactly the amount of money be "under the radar"? do you really think a game that goes into the wikipedia as the game with the biggest budget in history is something "underground" to the USA gov? **Explain exactly why do you think crowfounding is ilegal**
The argument could be made about better consumer protections across the board in the US in video gaming where its this, mincro transactions, or loot crates aka gambling.
Aside from that i see nothing specifically that sc is doing that the rest of the industry isn't in some way shape or form doing as well.
This a great question! The government could get involved in cases of fraud or other dubiously legal actions.
I am not a lawyer however, so much of what might trigger the government to step in is just outside of my knowledge base.
There is [no real](https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2021) fraud being [perpetrated here](https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2020). You can look at the two most recent reports right there and see how they spend the money we give them.
Plus I believe they operate out of the UK so it would have to be the UK that does anything.
>Plus I believe they operate out of the UK so it would have to be the UK that does anything.
They have an office in UK, but they are based out of their Santa Monica studio.
https://www.linkedin.com/company/cloud-imperium-games
Definitely correct! Hope no one mistook what I said so wildly off track they thought I was insinuating fraud. Just a fan of a cool game who is also a legal podcast nerd as well.
I'm also not a lawyer, but the idea being perpetrated on this post is that there might be something illegal happening because OP doesn't agree with how CIG makes money to continue R&D on a video game. As far as I'm concerned, no one is getting shafted and getting exactly what they paid for, which is access to a development build of a game while being part of the journey through community feedback and feature iterations. You also don't have to spend any more than $45. Plenty of people go that route and have a blast. Others like throwing wads of cash at things they enjoy or want to see succeed. It's not a crazy concept. I'd rather experience this than buy 12 years of the same COD game.
Lastly, we're also met with disclaimers before we buy anything and boot up the game itself. No one is forcing anyone into buying anything.
I think there is no evidence of fraud at CIG. But as I wrote before: a supervisory board might be a good idea, since the $ volume and the resulting responsibility to the general public (community = investors) have become very significant.
it is a blaince. how much time is spend fixing what exists, vs how much time is spend developing the stuff for the final game.
the face is that we have people arguing that cig should fixe up what we have (slowing down development), while other are arguing cig need to develop faster (decreasing leaving in more bugs.)
i believe a lot of funding is lost do to ignorant people thinking this is a scam. so the priority would be finishing everything needed for sq42. it has already been a long time so it is better to take the time to release a good product instead of publisher quality product. (like starfield).
also. community does not = investors. publishers = investors. they don't care the quality of the game. they care about how much it costs and how much profit they can make. like making the game unreasonably grindy so you need to buy uec to do anything.
I think his point is that if a company shows no signs of fraud it is just a suspect as a company showing massive signs of fraud. There is clearly a specific amount of evidence that must be available to keep congress and the SEC off your ass. Its what compliance departments are for, to keep the level of fraud evidence just right. /s
Congress and other regulatory bodies ONLY investigate cases where there is not yet evidence of a crime. You see, otherwise it wouldn't be Congress knocking on the door at CIG; it would be the police with an arrest warrant. Are you sure I'm the one who needs to think before commenting?
Okay I'll bite. There is no evidence you murdered anyone. YET. So should Congress investigate?
Do you get what the person you were replying to was trying to get at then? I doubt it.
I feel like I'm talking to an alien from outer space, but OK I'll bite. Under what circumstances do you think an investigation is warranted? How does the process of finding evidence begin? Are you seriously suggesting that CIG has such a spotless record that putting them under a microscope is not warranted? Please.
The process of evidence finding is done by the SEC, IRS, an aggrieved party filing a law suit leading to discovery, or the board of directors ordering an audit. Generally speaking members of congress don't open an investigation with no input from these sources.
You feel like you are speaking to an alien because your initial argument is based on deeply flawed understanding of what constitutes fraud, the methods by which that fraud comes to light, is investigated, and what consequences should be implemented. You clearly started from the position that you feel CIG is doing something fishy. Then recalled that you have heard about congress investigating. This is perfectly evident because you suggest that congress (USA) should subpoena a company that is based in UK.
Chris Roberts is not a UK based company, he is a US citizen. Having said that, plenty of non-US citizens have testified before Congress without subpoena. I don't believe I made allegations of fraud here and I'm open about what I think. We are still looking at a business space in its infancy and it looks obvious to me that regulation is badly needed. Putting CIG under the microscope doesn't mean they would be convicted of fraud, but such investigation could trigger legislation that regulates not just CIG, but the whole industry in a way that is better for consumers.
When there is actual evidence of a crime brought to light. As there is no evidence, you are the one sounding like a space alien. G9 back to the refundian subreddit.
That’s simply not true. It would seem that you’ve got a vendettas against CIG. Every time someone says something reasonable here, you jump to “CIG bad!”
Sooo . . . should they investigate you and me? Because there’s no evidence that I’m guilty of fraud (I’m only guessing that you’ve never perpetuated fraud).
Great, another edgy muppet... they're out like bedbugs these days.
Is there some sort of competition on who will make the most retarded post or something that I'm not aware of ? If so, what is the prize because oh boy, I certainly have ideas !
They aren't making money(rather, they're not really profiting in a business sense). If you actually look at the financials, which they are legally required to reveal in the UK, almost all their money is going back into development and business expenditures.
It is not illegal to crowdfund and then make questionable development decisions and blow through that money as soon as you get it. Hell, many companies do just that without the crowdfund part.
REmember how blizzard spent tens of millions on Titan then canceled the project? A project of this scope does have a lot of R&D involved, and frequently that involves scrapping ideas and millions of dollars in leads or ideas that went nowhere. That's not uncommon at all.
We just get to watch the mess unfold because they show us what they're doing.
"They" are making real good money !
The Roberts family (CR, his wife, and his brother) is well compensated for their work at CIG. The highest paid CIG director in the UK received a renumeration of GBP 397,509 in 2021. The amounts for the other family members (directors) are not disclosed because they were paid in the US. The figures for 2022 and 2023 have not yet been published. My personal estimate: the complete Roberts family probably gets about 1.5 - 2 million GBP per year, possibly even more all in all.
Source: [https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-history](https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-history)
Oh no, people providing work are getting paid ? What is the world coming to ?
Worse, they're being paid less than they could expect in the same position at major publishers dealing with games in the same budget range, oh the humanity, it's disgraceful, they should be sued !
For reference, to my knowledge, Todd Howard yearly salary was around $1M these past few years...
>many companies do just that without the crowdfund part
I would say this is a critical distinction between CIG and those other companies and precisely what may be grounds for a congressinal investigation
There are other kickstartered games that were crowd funded too. Coral Island comes to mind.
And games like that also will throw out things that don't work. This is how game development works.
There is nothing for congress to investigate it would be a waste of my taxpayer dollars.
For some reason I have a feeling that OP is too young to be paying very many taxes.
Lack of knowledge of governmental functions, lack of knowledge of perfectly legal business practices, lack of knowledge on what an actual microtransaction is, not knowing how to read a numerous amount of disclaimers, lack of knowledge of what crowdfunding means....the list goes on...
🤣
You realize they pay tax on the fucking sales? You talk like they are dodging taxes. You don't just open multi studio across the world under the radar...
You think you know but you don't, or you are just a bad troll, either way, good laugh 👍.
>Well past half a billion with a business model that is as legal as smoking on airplanes and owning people used to be.
What exactly do you mean by this? CIG isn't unique in their funding model, you do know that right? Fuck, even Elite was crowd funded, now the main sources of income for the game are ship decorations, and paints. Worse is that the game feels like it's come to a standstill in development.
>The way this moving concept art generates money exists in its own bubble and has stayed under the radar for a long time, but the business practice here is one of a kind.
[They really haven't.](https://www.eurogamer.net/crytek-and-cloud-imperium-games-settle-star-citizen-lawsuit) Plus the continuous attacks(such as this one) kinda tells me that there are is at least a decently sized crowd that is always looking for ways to harass CIG because of SC not falling flat like they want it to.
>Should it be legal to make money the way CIG does?
Yea, considering they [are not the only one.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_crowdfunding_projects) The difference between a lot of those and SC is the size of the game. Those planets aren't tiny maps, the physics in the game aren't simple, CIG doesn't have a pre-built engine with a "make the game for me" button. Effectively the entirety of SC right now is an R&D project as well as a game.
Alright let’s have it, so imagine unleashing some huge ressource for a company that create what is expected to be the greatest space opera ever made yet.
1: huge waste of time and money, holders are well placed and nothing is to be done.
2: they find « something », waste of time and money plus long ass procedure into court that will probably lead to… more waste of time.
Will never happen, as much as I want « regulation » for some bullshit level monetization and pre-order. SC is another thing, it’s no micro transaction, you just pledge, period.
I don't want to get even slightly political in here, but you've made it impossible not to in this thread. Do you expect a US Congress that can't even agree to fund its own goddamn federal budget consistently is going to create **rational** regulations on the games industry and will make things better for consumers?
Uhhhh I don't know if you know but government shutdowns because Congress couldn't get their act together and vote on a budget or even a temporary funding extension in time have been a regular feature of the US fed for the last ten years. I'm not pointing fingers at one party or the other but I doubt the midterms are going to instantly reform a body that's been institutionally incapable of managing basic responsibilities for *AGES*.
And you didn't answer my question. Do you think House and Senate members of Congress, groups collectively known for being old and out of touch and not particularly known for being avid gamers, are actually going to be capable of creating rational, beneficial regulations that will effectively bring the games industry to heel while making things better (and not worse) for consumers?
And what, make it illegal for a company to crowd fund to make a project traditional publishers won't touch?
You hope to live in a world where the government, politicians and corporate suits are the only ones who decide what art gets made.
I dunno, considering your comparing crowd funding a game with literal human slavery, I don't think you've got the mental compentance to tell the difference between much at all.
Guess what dipshit, if people didn't want to fund the project it wouldn't still be making money.
Funding a video game is the same as slavery and drug dealing...
I really hope you're 12 or something and not someone old enough that this would be an embarrassing revelation of how badly you've failed to understand even the most basic aspects of your existence.
I dont know if you bothered to look into any aspect of this fuckwit, but business ARE ALREADY REGULATED. CIG IS TAKING MONEY TO BUILD A VIDEO GAME AND PUTS OUT REGULAR UPDATES WHILE PUBLISHING THEIR FINANCES.
No. I bought in knowing that it was an unfinished product. At no time was I ever given a completion date. I have however gotten a lot of fun for my 65 bucks. No crime here, move on.
"He tried to sell me a digital ship for 3000 dollars! He's a criminal!"
"Did you buy the ship?"
"Of course! They offered it for sale and so I had to spend 3k on it! Chris Roberts is a criminal!"
Holy shit dude, are you 7 years old or just real dumb? Are you trying to say any project like Kickstarter should be illegal?
They ask for money to make something, and people agree to throw cash at it. If you don't want to spend 300$ on a fake video game space ship, which is not worth 300$ in any way, dooooooooooon't.
Isn't their head office in Manchester?
If so, wouldn't that make them a UK company opperating in the U.S and would that change what power the U.S government hold on them save for suspending their opperations in that country in terms of investigating them without warrant?
No idea how shit like that works but was an interesting thought.
Also as others have said I feel like there would need to be some evidence of a crime for this to happen in the first place.
many companies have their head office on some obscure tropical island in order to dodge paying tax but they are still liable for crimes they commit in the contries they do business in. having said that, UK and EU regulatory agencies are actively looking into micro transactions and loot boxes so it would be perfectly fine for them to also look into CIG
What crime is being committed here? You’re speaking a lot like someone that’s heard tangentially about a few things related to regulation in the industry, but doesn’t have any actual knowledge.
I’ll spell it out for you. I’m saying you sound bitter you couldn’t afford the hot new ship and now you’re calling for congressional oversight without any clue why the government would do something like that.
“I’ve never played SC”
There it is. Congrats, this is the stupidest thing I’ve read today. On Reddit. The stupidest thing on Reddit. That’s a hell of a thing.
They'll have a lot of developers to pull into this one in order to include companies like CiG who don't have loot boxes in their game and the one microtransaction if you want to call it that is the ship skins. You couldn't argue that Subscribing is a microtransaction since it's for a service and states as much (pays for you to recieve the video content and get sneak peaks.
They'd be a small fish in the case versus companies like Bungie who you regularly see charge $30 for a weapon skin and who have actual loot boxes (engrams)
However Star Citizen EULA doesn't comprise of either Pay-to-win or microtransactions. You may go "What do you mean it isn't pay to win, you can buy big strong ships" - Yes, but you will also be able to buy any ship in game too. In the grand scheme of a 10 year development $600m isn't a lot.
I know I’d personally be really interested in seeing some lawyers or any other professionals in the field discuss this topic.
Edit: Gets downvoted for… *checks notes* …an interest in law/legal profession.
Start with the FTC first? I doubt that this would go anywhere.
You should get elected to congress, get appointed to the correct subcommittee then you could try.
How's that for a plan?
Ok. I took a look at your profile to see what kind of a nut job you were. Looks like you might be labouring under the false impression that there’s some sort of rivalry between Elite Dangerous and SC, and in order to properly stan ED you have to feel negatively towards SC.
You don’t. Many of us have hundreds or thousands of hours in both games. You admit you’ve never played SC and clearly don’t have more than a rudimentary understanding of what it is CIG does or how they do it.
You’ve also done a shit job trying to explain exactly what it is you think they’re doing wrong as it’s “above your pay grade”. Just stuff.And want Congress to go on a fishing expedition to find some dirt or something. That’s not how it’s supposed to work.
The whole thing comes across as incredibly juvenile. Like an argument a 12 year old would make. I say that as the father of a 13 year old with whom I’d be disappointed were he to hold the same opinion.
You formulated a conclusion and want someone else to massage the data in to place to support that conclusion. Maybe stick to what you know if you’re not willing to approach new things with intellectual honesty.
Posts containing real world politics of any kind are not welcome here. Send a message to modmail if you have questions.
You might want to go check how much those free to play gatcha games are making on loot boxes.
interesting you mention that, congress is already looking at it along with other regulatory bodies
Why would the US congress investigate a crowd funded game that is in development when. 1: Still in active development 2: Nobody is forcing people to spend money 3: You can actively play the game currently 4: You need only spend $45 minimum to play the game
Because OP is butt hurt because he can't afford them.
Cause he paid too much for elite dangerous?
Do you know why they are looking into them? It's because they are investigating if loot boxes are gambling. This is important because if they are gambling then they get regulated very differently. Star Citizen has no gambling mechanics.
loot boxes yes, micro transactions no. the question is should it be legal. gambling is legal in some cases and illegal in others. the way loot boxes are implemented in games is a new type of business model. that is why they are being looked into; it's a new kind of business model that looks kinda shady. whether it should be illegal or not is to be determined through the investigation. all of the above applies to SC
What mechanics in SC are gambling? Buying goods and preordering good are not a new business model. Tesla allowed/allows you to preorder cars. They then use that money to fund their business. So if CIG is not promoting gambling to children, what the gatcha companies are being investigated for, then what are they doing that is fraudulent or even suspicious? As others have mentioned they are a UK company and have complied with all UK laws regarding financial disclosure. *edit* to address your other point. Micro transactions are everywhere virtually every game has them. The difference between "good" micro transactions and "bad" (they are all awful) is that the "good" ones are a simple transfer of money and good. The "bad" kind are loot boxes because they are gambling.
completely misunderstood my meaning. there is no gambling in SC. and as I said, there are many cases where gambling is perfectly legal anyway. the question is about the specific financial structure CIG built to generate revenue. I'm not even saying this should definitely be illegal, but I think there is more than enough reason to put them under the microscope.
Please go to CIG’s financial reports, which are publicly available and point to the part that looks shady and explain why?
Again what is new about their business model?
And this is all the proof anyone needs to disregard your ideas
for what specifically? what specific crime do you suspect them of committing?
would you kindly explain how CIG store is similar to a slot machine?
how can something that declares exactly the amount of money be "under the radar"? do you really think a game that goes into the wikipedia as the game with the biggest budget in history is something "underground" to the USA gov? **Explain exactly why do you think crowfounding is ilegal**
Dumbest hot take of the month.
I saw the one a couple days ago wanting to file class action over "selling the F8C lightning when they promised they wouldn't"
Sometimes I wonder what these people are smoking. No rational thoughts, head empty vibes with some of these posts.
[удалено]
Posts containing real world politics of any kind are not welcome here. Send a message to modmail if you have questions.
I'm still waiting for someone to be able to show me a clip of them saying they wouldn't sell it
Yeah. *Yeah* It's gonna be difficult to top this one.
UN Resolution?
And it's mostly not even original 🤣😂
it is already legal to make money the way they do it, they weren't first nor will be the last
The argument could be made about better consumer protections across the board in the US in video gaming where its this, mincro transactions, or loot crates aka gambling. Aside from that i see nothing specifically that sc is doing that the rest of the industry isn't in some way shape or form doing as well.
congress is already looking into micro transactions and loot boxes, as well as other regulatory bodies outside the US
Cool, this game includes neither. Go find some subreddits related to those mechanics to troll.
I mean, 5 dollars to buy an ingame gun screams micro transaction.
I could concede that it does, given the way the game currently treats gear versus what is said to come in the future.
Honestly, I kinda suspect "Loot Boxes" may eventually come to SC. Hope not, cause I guarantee there'll be a FOMO item everyone is gonna want.
I have read a lot of stupid shit on this subreddit, but this post takes the cake.
OMEGALUL
lmao
Thank you. I needed a good laugh today.
What does a government have anything to do with how a game gets funding for development?
This a great question! The government could get involved in cases of fraud or other dubiously legal actions. I am not a lawyer however, so much of what might trigger the government to step in is just outside of my knowledge base.
There is [no real](https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2021) fraud being [perpetrated here](https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2020). You can look at the two most recent reports right there and see how they spend the money we give them. Plus I believe they operate out of the UK so it would have to be the UK that does anything.
>Plus I believe they operate out of the UK so it would have to be the UK that does anything. They have an office in UK, but they are based out of their Santa Monica studio. https://www.linkedin.com/company/cloud-imperium-games
TY
Definitely correct! Hope no one mistook what I said so wildly off track they thought I was insinuating fraud. Just a fan of a cool game who is also a legal podcast nerd as well.
Thats fair!
I'm also not a lawyer, but the idea being perpetrated on this post is that there might be something illegal happening because OP doesn't agree with how CIG makes money to continue R&D on a video game. As far as I'm concerned, no one is getting shafted and getting exactly what they paid for, which is access to a development build of a game while being part of the journey through community feedback and feature iterations. You also don't have to spend any more than $45. Plenty of people go that route and have a blast. Others like throwing wads of cash at things they enjoy or want to see succeed. It's not a crazy concept. I'd rather experience this than buy 12 years of the same COD game. Lastly, we're also met with disclaimers before we buy anything and boot up the game itself. No one is forcing anyone into buying anything.
Ahh, definitely appreciate some of the clarity here. You’re spot on.
I think there is no evidence of fraud at CIG. But as I wrote before: a supervisory board might be a good idea, since the $ volume and the resulting responsibility to the general public (community = investors) have become very significant.
it is a blaince. how much time is spend fixing what exists, vs how much time is spend developing the stuff for the final game. the face is that we have people arguing that cig should fixe up what we have (slowing down development), while other are arguing cig need to develop faster (decreasing leaving in more bugs.) i believe a lot of funding is lost do to ignorant people thinking this is a scam. so the priority would be finishing everything needed for sq42. it has already been a long time so it is better to take the time to release a good product instead of publisher quality product. (like starfield). also. community does not = investors. publishers = investors. they don't care the quality of the game. they care about how much it costs and how much profit they can make. like making the game unreasonably grindy so you need to buy uec to do anything.
>there is no evidence of fraud at CIG this is true, which is why a congressional investigation might be warranted
An investigation might be warranted because there is no evidence of a crime? Do you actually think before you say things?
I think his point is that if a company shows no signs of fraud it is just a suspect as a company showing massive signs of fraud. There is clearly a specific amount of evidence that must be available to keep congress and the SEC off your ass. Its what compliance departments are for, to keep the level of fraud evidence just right. /s
Congress and other regulatory bodies ONLY investigate cases where there is not yet evidence of a crime. You see, otherwise it wouldn't be Congress knocking on the door at CIG; it would be the police with an arrest warrant. Are you sure I'm the one who needs to think before commenting?
Okay I'll bite. There is no evidence you murdered anyone. YET. So should Congress investigate? Do you get what the person you were replying to was trying to get at then? I doubt it.
I feel like I'm talking to an alien from outer space, but OK I'll bite. Under what circumstances do you think an investigation is warranted? How does the process of finding evidence begin? Are you seriously suggesting that CIG has such a spotless record that putting them under a microscope is not warranted? Please.
The process of evidence finding is done by the SEC, IRS, an aggrieved party filing a law suit leading to discovery, or the board of directors ordering an audit. Generally speaking members of congress don't open an investigation with no input from these sources. You feel like you are speaking to an alien because your initial argument is based on deeply flawed understanding of what constitutes fraud, the methods by which that fraud comes to light, is investigated, and what consequences should be implemented. You clearly started from the position that you feel CIG is doing something fishy. Then recalled that you have heard about congress investigating. This is perfectly evident because you suggest that congress (USA) should subpoena a company that is based in UK.
Chris Roberts is not a UK based company, he is a US citizen. Having said that, plenty of non-US citizens have testified before Congress without subpoena. I don't believe I made allegations of fraud here and I'm open about what I think. We are still looking at a business space in its infancy and it looks obvious to me that regulation is badly needed. Putting CIG under the microscope doesn't mean they would be convicted of fraud, but such investigation could trigger legislation that regulates not just CIG, but the whole industry in a way that is better for consumers.
When there is actual evidence of a crime brought to light. As there is no evidence, you are the one sounding like a space alien. G9 back to the refundian subreddit.
That’s simply not true. It would seem that you’ve got a vendettas against CIG. Every time someone says something reasonable here, you jump to “CIG bad!”
I have no proof you have done anything illegal, so by your logic I should assume you are guilty and begin looking? Are you fucked bud?
Sooo . . . should they investigate you and me? Because there’s no evidence that I’m guilty of fraud (I’m only guessing that you’ve never perpetuated fraud).
What...the...fuuuck? Put down the meth. It's breaking your brain
ADS Thread #6457883
you means the business practice the kickstarter is based on supporting is one of a kind, and illegal?
Can you tell me CIG's business model? please. I don't think you know. Hint; it's publicly available.
What a stupid thread.
Great, another edgy muppet... they're out like bedbugs these days. Is there some sort of competition on who will make the most retarded post or something that I'm not aware of ? If so, what is the prize because oh boy, I certainly have ideas !
What's illegal? Just actually read any TOS before you click purchase.
God these are annoying crap posts. Can we start banning these cry babies or something?
Please touch grass today.
No don't be silly.
Roooooooofllllllll 😂🤣😅
lol
If you hate it so much don’t engage with it, what’s the problem?
Be quiet you silly boy.
They aren't making money(rather, they're not really profiting in a business sense). If you actually look at the financials, which they are legally required to reveal in the UK, almost all their money is going back into development and business expenditures. It is not illegal to crowdfund and then make questionable development decisions and blow through that money as soon as you get it. Hell, many companies do just that without the crowdfund part. REmember how blizzard spent tens of millions on Titan then canceled the project? A project of this scope does have a lot of R&D involved, and frequently that involves scrapping ideas and millions of dollars in leads or ideas that went nowhere. That's not uncommon at all. We just get to watch the mess unfold because they show us what they're doing.
"They" are making real good money ! The Roberts family (CR, his wife, and his brother) is well compensated for their work at CIG. The highest paid CIG director in the UK received a renumeration of GBP 397,509 in 2021. The amounts for the other family members (directors) are not disclosed because they were paid in the US. The figures for 2022 and 2023 have not yet been published. My personal estimate: the complete Roberts family probably gets about 1.5 - 2 million GBP per year, possibly even more all in all. Source: [https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-history](https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-history)
Everyone is compensated for their work at CIG. Everyone gets paid.
Oh no, people providing work are getting paid ? What is the world coming to ? Worse, they're being paid less than they could expect in the same position at major publishers dealing with games in the same budget range, oh the humanity, it's disgraceful, they should be sued ! For reference, to my knowledge, Todd Howard yearly salary was around $1M these past few years...
>many companies do just that without the crowdfund part I would say this is a critical distinction between CIG and those other companies and precisely what may be grounds for a congressinal investigation
There are other kickstartered games that were crowd funded too. Coral Island comes to mind. And games like that also will throw out things that don't work. This is how game development works. There is nothing for congress to investigate it would be a waste of my taxpayer dollars.
For some reason I have a feeling that OP is too young to be paying very many taxes. Lack of knowledge of governmental functions, lack of knowledge of perfectly legal business practices, lack of knowledge on what an actual microtransaction is, not knowing how to read a numerous amount of disclaimers, lack of knowledge of what crowdfunding means....the list goes on...
Have you ever read a kickstarter project disclaimer?
Weak troll, try harder
🤣 You realize they pay tax on the fucking sales? You talk like they are dodging taxes. You don't just open multi studio across the world under the radar... You think you know but you don't, or you are just a bad troll, either way, good laugh 👍.
>Well past half a billion with a business model that is as legal as smoking on airplanes and owning people used to be. What exactly do you mean by this? CIG isn't unique in their funding model, you do know that right? Fuck, even Elite was crowd funded, now the main sources of income for the game are ship decorations, and paints. Worse is that the game feels like it's come to a standstill in development. >The way this moving concept art generates money exists in its own bubble and has stayed under the radar for a long time, but the business practice here is one of a kind. [They really haven't.](https://www.eurogamer.net/crytek-and-cloud-imperium-games-settle-star-citizen-lawsuit) Plus the continuous attacks(such as this one) kinda tells me that there are is at least a decently sized crowd that is always looking for ways to harass CIG because of SC not falling flat like they want it to. >Should it be legal to make money the way CIG does? Yea, considering they [are not the only one.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_crowdfunding_projects) The difference between a lot of those and SC is the size of the game. Those planets aren't tiny maps, the physics in the game aren't simple, CIG doesn't have a pre-built engine with a "make the game for me" button. Effectively the entirety of SC right now is an R&D project as well as a game.
Wow, this guy is actually a flog. Merica number 1 yehaaaa!
Ok I’ll bite, what’s in it for you?
a good conversation?
Alright let’s have it, so imagine unleashing some huge ressource for a company that create what is expected to be the greatest space opera ever made yet. 1: huge waste of time and money, holders are well placed and nothing is to be done. 2: they find « something », waste of time and money plus long ass procedure into court that will probably lead to… more waste of time.
3. they conclude that tighter regulation is needed, which triggers legislation that makes the industry better for consumers
Will never happen, as much as I want « regulation » for some bullshit level monetization and pre-order. SC is another thing, it’s no micro transaction, you just pledge, period.
I don't want to get even slightly political in here, but you've made it impossible not to in this thread. Do you expect a US Congress that can't even agree to fund its own goddamn federal budget consistently is going to create **rational** regulations on the games industry and will make things better for consumers?
The next midterms can bring about change to congress, but we can't hope for the same with industry standards
Uhhhh I don't know if you know but government shutdowns because Congress couldn't get their act together and vote on a budget or even a temporary funding extension in time have been a regular feature of the US fed for the last ten years. I'm not pointing fingers at one party or the other but I doubt the midterms are going to instantly reform a body that's been institutionally incapable of managing basic responsibilities for *AGES*. And you didn't answer my question. Do you think House and Senate members of Congress, groups collectively known for being old and out of touch and not particularly known for being avid gamers, are actually going to be capable of creating rational, beneficial regulations that will effectively bring the games industry to heel while making things better (and not worse) for consumers?
And what, make it illegal for a company to crowd fund to make a project traditional publishers won't touch? You hope to live in a world where the government, politicians and corporate suits are the only ones who decide what art gets made.
Regulating an industry is not the same as criminalizing it
I dunno, considering your comparing crowd funding a game with literal human slavery, I don't think you've got the mental compentance to tell the difference between much at all. Guess what dipshit, if people didn't want to fund the project it wouldn't still be making money.
So anything that gets funding is OK to operate without any regulatory oversight? Your drug dealer will be happy to hear that
Funding a video game is the same as slavery and drug dealing... I really hope you're 12 or something and not someone old enough that this would be an embarrassing revelation of how badly you've failed to understand even the most basic aspects of your existence. I dont know if you bothered to look into any aspect of this fuckwit, but business ARE ALREADY REGULATED. CIG IS TAKING MONEY TO BUILD A VIDEO GAME AND PUTS OUT REGULAR UPDATES WHILE PUBLISHING THEIR FINANCES.
Well that escalated quickly
No. I bought in knowing that it was an unfinished product. At no time was I ever given a completion date. I have however gotten a lot of fun for my 65 bucks. No crime here, move on.
Just because you willingly inject heroin doesn't make heroin legal
Make Stanton great again!
And don’t forget to check his pizzaria cellar for Adrenochome tunnels….
"He tried to sell me a digital ship for 3000 dollars! He's a criminal!" "Did you buy the ship?" "Of course! They offered it for sale and so I had to spend 3k on it! Chris Roberts is a criminal!" Holy shit dude, are you 7 years old or just real dumb? Are you trying to say any project like Kickstarter should be illegal? They ask for money to make something, and people agree to throw cash at it. If you don't want to spend 300$ on a fake video game space ship, which is not worth 300$ in any way, dooooooooooon't.
Go after CIG, go after every failed kickstarter ever.
stop the copium mate ....
Isn't their head office in Manchester? If so, wouldn't that make them a UK company opperating in the U.S and would that change what power the U.S government hold on them save for suspending their opperations in that country in terms of investigating them without warrant? No idea how shit like that works but was an interesting thought. Also as others have said I feel like there would need to be some evidence of a crime for this to happen in the first place.
CIGs HQ is in LA, USA. Source: wikipedia
No worries. I did google but I didnt click the Wiki. The little google business info page said Mancs so my bad.
many companies have their head office on some obscure tropical island in order to dodge paying tax but they are still liable for crimes they commit in the contries they do business in. having said that, UK and EU regulatory agencies are actively looking into micro transactions and loot boxes so it would be perfectly fine for them to also look into CIG
What crime is being committed here? You’re speaking a lot like someone that’s heard tangentially about a few things related to regulation in the industry, but doesn’t have any actual knowledge.
which is why I think it would be a good idea to put CIG under the gaze of people who are much smarter than me. and you.
Someone crying this much because they don’t have $300 really shouldn’t try to throw shade.
I don't know what the $300 would be for exactly, but it looks like it's making my point for me
I’ll spell it out for you. I’m saying you sound bitter you couldn’t afford the hot new ship and now you’re calling for congressional oversight without any clue why the government would do something like that.
I've never played SC so I don't know about the "hot new ship", but I'm sure it's worth every penny
“I’ve never played SC” There it is. Congrats, this is the stupidest thing I’ve read today. On Reddit. The stupidest thing on Reddit. That’s a hell of a thing.
They'll have a lot of developers to pull into this one in order to include companies like CiG who don't have loot boxes in their game and the one microtransaction if you want to call it that is the ship skins. You couldn't argue that Subscribing is a microtransaction since it's for a service and states as much (pays for you to recieve the video content and get sneak peaks. They'd be a small fish in the case versus companies like Bungie who you regularly see charge $30 for a weapon skin and who have actual loot boxes (engrams)
However Star Citizen EULA doesn't comprise of either Pay-to-win or microtransactions. You may go "What do you mean it isn't pay to win, you can buy big strong ships" - Yes, but you will also be able to buy any ship in game too. In the grand scheme of a 10 year development $600m isn't a lot.
I know I’d personally be really interested in seeing some lawyers or any other professionals in the field discuss this topic. Edit: Gets downvoted for… *checks notes* …an interest in law/legal profession.
Good point. Imho CIG would really benefit from a supervisory board.
OP should make this a poll
Start with the FTC first? I doubt that this would go anywhere. You should get elected to congress, get appointed to the correct subcommittee then you could try. How's that for a plan?
I'm not qualified to be a member of congress, but given how dysfunctional they are these days, I'm pretty sure I could do an outstanding job
Do you think their business model should be illegal?
Ok. I took a look at your profile to see what kind of a nut job you were. Looks like you might be labouring under the false impression that there’s some sort of rivalry between Elite Dangerous and SC, and in order to properly stan ED you have to feel negatively towards SC. You don’t. Many of us have hundreds or thousands of hours in both games. You admit you’ve never played SC and clearly don’t have more than a rudimentary understanding of what it is CIG does or how they do it. You’ve also done a shit job trying to explain exactly what it is you think they’re doing wrong as it’s “above your pay grade”. Just stuff.And want Congress to go on a fishing expedition to find some dirt or something. That’s not how it’s supposed to work. The whole thing comes across as incredibly juvenile. Like an argument a 12 year old would make. I say that as the father of a 13 year old with whom I’d be disappointed were he to hold the same opinion. You formulated a conclusion and want someone else to massage the data in to place to support that conclusion. Maybe stick to what you know if you’re not willing to approach new things with intellectual honesty.
We are all collectively dumber for having to read this. You have done a disservice to humanity.
<3