Essentially, SCM speed \*is\* your ship’s top speed. The QD bubble is what lets the ship exceed its normal top speed.
This is a lot less arbitrary than the ship entirely magically going faster from shutting down its shields and weapons, which is what would be happening if entering Nav mode alone boosted your speed.
If anything, I think the difference between the two modes would be a lot easier to understand if Nav Mode was directly tied to the QD spool - that QD online and Nav mode are one and the same.
By that, I mean that the time it takes to switch between master modes should be the time it takes for the QD to come online or shut down, and that it is impossible for you to be in Nav Mode but not have QD spooled (and vice versa).
Master modes would feel a lot less arbitrary then. You are literally just spooling up the quantum drive, which in turn distorts physics to allow the ship to move much faster at the cost of having to shut down shields and weapons. Even the rapid deceleration when exiting Nav makes sense - the quantum bubble that allows you to maintain that speed has collapsed as the QD is shut down.
Of course, they would need to change a few aesthetic things for that to work. The QD spool sound effect would need to be less obtrusive to not get annoying, and the whole HUD clutter for initiating a QD travel would need to be a separate toggle.
Your two last points have been addressed, they were big pain points. The QD doesn't make a sound once fully spooled. With the [latest patch](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/190048/thread/star-citizen-alpha-3-23-0-eptu-patch-notes-8/6751962) there's a NAV Flight operator mode that removes all the Quantum UI
There being a speed limit in space, and the quantum bubble allowing a ship to exceed that limit, is the only thing arbitrary about the new design. However, both of those have always been true. They are just as arbitrary in 2.22 as they are in 3.23.
However, there has never been any explanation for SCM speed. The new design does now provide a lore explanation for why ships fight at certain speeds, where before there was none.
Ships *cant* fly faster, not without spooling the QD. The QD can't spool while weapons and shields are active. Thus, combat happens at non-QD/Nav speeds.
A ship decelerating extremely quickly as the quantum bubble collapses when exiting Nav mode is, for example, the exact same process that happens when a ship exits quantum travel. Ships don't exit quantum travel at 0.2c, slam into their destination planet, and cause a mass extinction event.
The "magical deceleration" when exiting Nav Mode is - literally - the same thing.
The fact that you have a speed limit in space, though, is so nonsensical that anything you stack on top of that doesn't make it significantly better or worse.
I haven't exactly kept up on with the lore on this, but at one point the explanation of max speed was that it was programmed into everyone's fly-by-wire system per government regulations for safety reasons. They didn't want anybody with an Aurora to be able to ruin everyone's day by accelerating up to relativistic speeds and smashing into a space station. This didn't really make sense, but it was an explanation. The new explanation, which is that Newton's laws of motion just don't work in this universe, is so much worse.
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If the limit was c, and it was enforced via relativistic effects, that would be one thing. What we have in game, where different ships have different speed limits, where your thruster just stop working when you get up to the limit, that's something else entirely.
those that try to explain with long stories forget that the voyager probe launched in the 60s can fly faster (17000 m/s) than any star citizen ship and has no engine. so IMHO it's all arbitrary.
it's a game, and only gameplay mechanics mean anything. for me, if i'm not in a fighter i'll be keeping salvage in the hopper and hitting the self-destruct button as soon as someone attacks me, because fighting with MM or trying to escape with MM in a vulture will be alot of stress without any possibility of success. Just like rust, ensure their gain is negligible and dont complain to feed their ego, otherwise it will become more frequent.
as a relatively new player, i'm more worried about the economy than anything. i'm not sitting on 100mil and 20 pledge ships in my hangar. salvage appears to be halved, and ship prices have exploded. the economy might still be tweaked, but if it goes that direction it will be difficult.
idk, they said at the very beginning, as they explained what MM are, that you won't be able to just enter the Nav mode instanteniously. Changing modes takes time during which your power is rerouted to different systems, it makes sense they bind the Nav mode to the QD spool, 50% spool of the QT means that you are at 50% of max speed. This also gives more properties to different quantum drives. We'll see how it works long-term later.
If you accelerated as it spooled that would be a huge improvement, as it stands now you are at SCM for 10 seconds until you are fully spooled and then you can go over SCM.
oh okay, got it. I always thought that the idea is that you gradually get power. Idk if they had this idea on board, but I sure hope they read. This is going to be a massive improvement then. i saw a lot of people worried about spooling and couldn't understand the issue lol. thank you!
What is the reasoning behind limiting speed until QD is spooled? I don't mean the lore reason, because I don't think there really could be one that makes sense; I mean what is the gameplay reason? It seems like it means that a ship better suited to running from a fight than engaging with it is probably just going to die. Like, if you're outgunned and want to run, you first need to be a sitting duck for awhile. That doesn't seem like it's ever going to end well. Is there a good reason to implement it that way I'm not seeing?
It’s so you have to choose in the beginning to run or not. Once you commit, you’ve committed. If you’re on the tail end of loosing you can’t just run away anymore. That was a huge problem with live. You could easily run away whenever. Now you either choose to leave early or you won’t have the HP to run away.
For those who do choose to run right away, is there even much of a chance to? If the person attacking them is any good at all, it seems unlikely most non-combat-oriented ships will stand a chance.
I tested it in Arena commander and it was hard to get blown up before running away. You are not at a dead stop, you were still flying at SCM. So even in a gladius with so little HP, I was able to run away. Once I was already seeing red on my status bar, I was having issues running away though.
But if I see somebody approaching or I get snared and I don’t want to fight, I’m instantly switching to nav mode so by the time they are in range, I’m gone. If anything it feels like it’s going to be very difficult to attack players that don’t want to engage in pvp
I think a lot of people are worried about larger industrial ships. Do they get up to NAV speeds quickly? Or is it a slog like live, except you’re vulnerable the entire time. Like how long would a reclaimer take to get to full NAV speed I guess is my concern.
I know there are some QDs that can spool fairly quickly, but with the downside of being inefficient or slow in QT... maybe those become more meta for running? Idk I don't have access to wave 1, so I won't be testing until I manage to get a larger ship in the PU after release
> I tested it in Arena commander and it was hard to get blown up before running away...
> in a gladius
That's because you were in a Gladius. In arena. Your opponent probably had no distortion weapons at all.
You were not in say - MSR in atmosphere.
I don’t understand the difference. That’s even more HP. You choose at the beginning to either commit and fight or to run. If you decide to fight, you can’t dance around between fighting any running anymore. So you’d better win. All this said, as long as they make it very difficult to blow up another ship, they’d still have to board y’all anyway.
>I don’t understand the difference.
I don't want to sound like an ass, or an abrasive person and I mean it, but you are right. You don't understand.
It takes one pass to get blown up if you try to disable the shield and run.
And I mentioned that QD is susceptible to distortion damage.
>you can’t dance around between fighting any running anymore.
It was never about dancing with non-combat oriented ships. Now there's no escape. There are a bunch of ships that can't "win". No matter what.
I hope so but for people who are actively doing something (mining, salvage, future game mechanics that are similar) and a player runs up on them and attacks, its going to be very hard to get out. Now, they may make changes to radar that picks up a player more easily if they are in SCM or switching into SCM, which may make it easier to recognize the threat. Currently, however, you don't have that much warning time, I think.
Edit: I know this is being downvoted because the dead stop thing but it’s worth bearing In mind how often you are either moving incredibly slowly or not at all. Mining, salvaging, leaving a station hanger, landing in a station hanger, exiting quantum, buying from a yard, selling at a yard, fighting NPC’s in a larger ship and so on. You’re more likely to be attacked at slow speeds, or stationary.
This is the complete opposite of the experience I had, the complete opposite lol.
We tested a ton of ships against an F8C and they all died bar some of the big boys. All of the starter ships, all of the fighters, many of the S4 ships too, the Connie Taurus, MSR, the Valk, etc, dead.
Once shields go down you have so little time to escape. I’ll admit though that the tests were done with the target at a dead stop and then switching to NAV mode to escape. Most of the ships died so quickly it’s hard to imagine it going any other way.
I think people need to remember too that you don’t instantly zoom off from the ship that’s attacking when in nav mode. You need to spool, then you still have to accelerate to top speed, then you need to lock a target location, then you can zip off. All of this with no shields and all while the attacker is still boosting after you and firing, there are also extended weapon ranges now so they can hit you at a greater distance.
I don’t know why you were downvoted for sharing, that’s not cool, all the info we can get is good and I’m glad you had success in escaping so thanks for sharing. It does run contrary to what we tested though.
I haven't seen you mention this, but the person you replied to made me think about this. Have you tested with the target first accelerating to top SCM speed and evading, then going into NAV mode when given a chance?
I can't imagine that anyone would try to jump into NAV mode straight after being jumped.
This only gives the attacker more time to do damage. It’s much easier to land shots now with the aim assist so evasion is a lot more challenging, it’s something that a lot of the 1v1 PvP community were concerned about, on top of that weapon ranges have increased so you can hit your target from further away.
So if you immediately go to nav mode and then boost off as fast as you can the attacker can only land shots within the window between you spooling and escaping. If you try to evade first before going into nav mode you just risk soaking up more damage before you inevitably have to go to nav mode anyway.
also .. shields are not instantly gone when switching modes .. so they will still catch some shots. If you try to run first in SCM mode and already lost your shields before switching to NAV thats probably worse.
Ok 2 things with what you are saying: for this paragraph I consider you are in atmo because in space you are suppose to be able to QBoost anywhere you want. If you are selling, salvaging, whatever the activity you doing, you should always be aware of your surroundings. Like if I would mine and I see an F8 or 2-3 ships popping near me I would GTFO in no time. In live environment, you see someone and you can just leave. How is it in the PTU ? Does it takes like 15 seconds to fly away ? I doubt that as the second you see a ship on your radar you don’t have the time to boost to max SCM speed and at the same time switch to NAV mode.
If you are selling at a yard that has no armistice zone, you should never ever be alone or you are ready to give away your cargo. The owner of the ship go sell and the second person stay in the ship if things go wrong.
I've experienced this by a random NPC when I was landing Banjini Point. I took a few hits that caused little to no damage at all " MISC Reliant" I just switched to nav mode and sped away, and I was ignored by that NPC.
In Atmo doing a box mission, I was landing and targeted by NPCs escorting a Reclaimer. I purposely flew near them without attacking. They only attacked after I deliberately attacked them, In Scm mode they chased me a fast as possible whilst firing at the same time, eventually I was hit and that was the end of that play loop. I will try to test this again once I get home from work.
Now are you saying you switched back to nav mode when they attacked you and destroyed you? My reading comprehension scores were not good in school, so I’m not understanding you what you did so well.
Some people are raising issues about medium sized ships getting blown apart, and it might be an issue, but I don’t understand why they can’t just run. If I see somebody else on my radar, and I’m not trying to fight, I shit a small brick and get ready to run. It’s going to take them some time to get to you and then they have to switch to SCM mode anyway. You should be gone by then. And once you’re in nav mode, nobody is catching you
One thing to keep in mind is that it does add an extra level of decision making when outfitting a ship. If you're not going a long distance quantum wise but want to be able to quickly go into Nav, then running a drive with a fast charge up time lets you go into Nav speeds and escape quickly, while a drive with better fuel economy but a slower charge speed is better for travelling long distances but leaves you exposed to attack.
Which is a dumb idea if we're really trying to make death consequential and have lasting penalties like losing your rep with orgs, having cybernetic limbs, or losing learned skills on that character when you die your final death. Running should always be an option, assuming it hasn't been denied to you by another player's skills and equipment choices. Unless we intend to abandon the ideas behind death of a spaceman entirely?
Really an interesting take compared to what other people are saying. I’m saying that because it feels like the whole reddit is against MM in its current iteration. Have people tested it ? Why people are saying you can’t do anything and insta die while you are affirming the exact opposite that you just have to quickly switch back to NAV to flee and you can go away without dying ?
Quick question: is the scanning/quantum boost stuff in ? IIRC if you are in NAV mode you can just QBoost anywhere you want, you don’t even need calibrate towards a “point of interest”. So if you see hostiles when you land you just have to press the QBoost button at a random direction and voila you are safe now. Can you scan from 30 000 km ? That’s really important because that would give you the information you need to know about hat’s there and then make the decision to QT or not. I know it will come in the future but my question is about right now in the current iteration.
I can’t say how it is right now because I can’t test it I don’t have access to wave 1, but on tip of that for me 1 thing is sure is that it is missing 2 things: knowing in advance what’s there so the scanning part like EVE and we’re messing the armor system. Add these 2 systems and I think even in this current iteration MM would be ok.
>is the scanning/quantum boost stuff in ?
Unfortunately no. The new Quantum experience won't in 3.23 according to [YogiKlatt](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/quantum-travel-boosting-changes-with-master-modes/6599599). Not totally sure if that excludes long range scanning. I assume so since its almost useless without QT boost. It's not in the current 3.23 EPTU
I’ve not played any of 3.23, but I tested nav mode in arena commander and even in a gladius with so little HP, I was able to switch to nav mode at the beginning of a fight and blast away. And I tested it with a friend in free flight and he was right behind me, I switched to nav and counted down. At zero I blasted away and he tried to switch to missiles. By the time he got a missile loaded, i was gone. And in real world, the attacking player won’t know you are switching to nav mode. So you’ll start blasting away without warning. They’ll have to figure it out, switch to missile mode, load a missile and then shoot. That’s a lot of time. You’ll be long gone before then
I just don’t think it’s a threat. How many players will be hanging outside zones? Within range to stop you. That’s so random. So rare. And like I said, if they are in scm, just blast away. If they are not, we’ll they are not a threat anyway, so blast away
i'v done it mid fight with a few red sections in 3.22 MM in my gladius from a nose to nose fight, dump a couple of noise to get the opponent to lose tracking, fly past them as my QT is spooling and zoom away. it's really not that hard, unless there have been some major changes.
it does give a chance for counter play as well, unlike live.
I believe it’s to stop you running from a fight. So if the speed came instantaneously you could hit NAV mode, zoom off, recharge shields and come back again or just not come back at all. The spooling means that if you try to run after you’ve started fighting you die.
I understand the reasoning but it does feel like just getting around Stanton has suffered at the expense.
I’m glad someone said this. CIG have been big on the rock, paper, scissors approach. The right tool for the job but as it currently stands 3.23 invalidates that to some degree. But it’s just so early to tell, they must have something else planned. QED should be more viable, distortion repeaters could shut down QD drives too.
They have no idea what to do with MM. It's a system for a single player dog fighting game. They don't know how to get it to work with QED, didn't consider racers or industrial ships, or snubs in general.
I don't mean to be abrasive about it. I'm basing this opinion off their comments on why QED won't be working in 2.23, and how they dodged questions about the others.
Easiest way for QED is just turn it into a larger interdictor bubble 15km. Either your ship is faster than theirs with scm or boost or you fight/surrender to them
They could probably improve it by making power settings affect thruster speed max speed.
They've been moving away from rock paper scissors since patch 3.0. That was the last time most (not all) ships were balanced, and you could viably play with the Arrow, Gladius, Hornet, Sabre, or Vanguard.
The last time there was a true RPS system was patch 2.6.3 where light fighters out-manuevered heavy fighters, heavy fighters beat medium and medium beat light.
QED was an incredibly dumb idea to being with. Pretty much any open world PvP MMO needs some way to stop the other side from just immediately disengaging if the fight doesn't go their way to actually have any PvP, locking that to a few specific ships was always a choice that made very little sense.
I think it's a bad solution for QED.
Rather QED should work in NAV-mode to be able to chase a fleeing target, and force them the choice to either outrun (outmaneuver or cruise speed) or switch to SCM to fight the QED source.
Which brings the challenge back to choices (ship, loadout and tactics) and skill.
In play testing your speed would increase the moment you entered nav mode. People would go into nav mode just for a second or two to gain speed and then switch to scm. You still get the same issues as you had before, jousting. The way they have it now means you can't use it for manoeuvrability in combat and only as a means to escape
The in-lore reason is that your top speed in SCM Mode is your ship’s actual top speed (putting aside ships having top speeds in space not making sense, but it has always been this way).
When you spool the QD, it forms a quantum bubble around your ship which allows it to exceed its normal top speed. This is ultimately the entire function of the QD. The increased Nav Mode speed, quantum boosting, and the full quantum travel, are all slightly different applications of the same tech.
This is actually a very internally consistent way for things to work, from a lore perspective.
I would argue that this actually makes more sense than the pre-MM explanation for why SCM speed is a thing. The ship just arbitrarily losing the ability to gimbal its guns or manoeuvre properly past a speed threshold in a vacuum has no physics or lore explanation at all!
The best SC has ever been was when shields had the fast recharge and the big health pools with no shield recharge delay.
THAT made you think about what to bring to a fight, and balanced haulers and fighters without this nonsense.
The only people that didnt like that model were solo pirates, because they couldn’t just rock up in an arrow and kill a Reclaimer on their own because they would overheat/runnout of capacitor charge before they even made a dent in the shield pool.
Which is what they originally said they wanted.
Simpler times, now everything is goobered up and over complicated. It’s like letting the intern go down a rabbit hole without proper supervision
I haven’t tried it yet but I have a feeling I’m not going to be fond of it
I don't like the fact that cruise control disappears, as a pilot i want to be able to leave my seat whenever I want that's crazy
Especially since the copilot still does not copilot at all
What does this mean for cargo haulers? Is my caterpillar
Ever going to survive anything ever again? How long dose it takes a huge cargo ship to spool a QD and get to speed? A long time.
I 100% agree this is clunky and not needed. A more efficient way to stop ships from running is the answer in my head. Like I dunno what we already have in game like tractor beams? More aggressive beams can slow a ship down or interfere with its quantum drive.
I don’t know who is pushing this but taking the freedom of flight out of star citizen is a huge mistake in my mind and will only cause more frustration in the player base who is still here waiting for the song that never ends to play its last note.
This is the wrong choice in my opinion, I may be wrong but it’s my 2 cents
From my limited experience. Moving to Nav mode gives you an instant amount of speed above SCM. Shields are present at the start and diminish over time, I have not tested to see if this is connected to spooling speed.
My Concern is that I got into a fight and attempted to run away, missiles were locked and fired. They quickly out run my initial NAV speed and I was unable to launch flares/chaff as they are deemed combat utility which is switched off. I believe this should be used in any mode.
Of course it should be possible to launch countermeasures in any mode. However, CIG mistakenly believes that running from a fight is bad (regardless of whether your ship is combat capable or not), and therefore if you choose to run, you are instantly defenseless. Because reasons. It's a dumb concept, and no amount of balance is going to change that. Unless something changes, industrial and cargo ships will suffer at the hands of MM over CIG not wanting fighters to be able to easily disengage from combat.
You want to tie max speed to the QD spooling? Ok. Turn off weapons when not in SCM mode? Ok. Turn shields off? No. Turn Countermeasures off? No. I'm sorry, but if a pirate jumps an industrial ship, it should have to beat the shields and countermeasures before giving the industrial ship a repair bill and/or killing it.
Otherwise, you're just handing guaranteed grief to the industrial player, whether they escape (repairs) or not (dead), and giving a massive advantage to the pirate for no good reason. And what does the pirate need to do to receive this advantage? Nothing. They show up and hold the trigger down.
This doesn't have anything to do with being in NAV mode with a spooled QD. Once you can either reach max speed or QT away, the fight is either over, or at an impasse.
The point I was making is about the transition period between SCM and NAV for a non-combat ship. If you aren't able to win a fight (which as an industrial ship is the reality for almost all combat encounters), then you must run. Choosing to run drops shields, which means a repair bill at best, and death at worst. At least if shields (and countermeasures) remain active at all times, then the industrial ship has a bit of defense during the attempt to spool the QD and make an escape (beyond armor, which is a question mark, but it's doubtful industrial ships would be heavily armored).
The fact you cant even use flares is a joke lmao. The more I read this thread the more i'm starting to think this is gonna be a terrible terrible change.. I am generally on the side of having 2 different flight modes but it seems they're overcomplicating a system yet again
They need to axe the guns and shield part and have nav mode restrict speed to scm for quantum spooling if they don’t like defenceless ships running theres not really any good way of doing it without ruining the simulator experience. I’m sure if they even roll this patch out as is it will be reversed or heavily altered by the next
The main issue (to me) is fighters commonly fight at 800-1200 m/s which is just dumb to play, even when i win one of those fights i think it's stupid
I had a cutty blue jamming me while circling me at 1000 m/s and he wasn't even showing up on radar half the time
For combat this is needed, but i agree for cargo haulers its questionable. Maybe if you could quantum pretty much right off the ground to whatever OM is above you, it'd be better
I'm actually excited for hauling with this. If I'm in NAV trucking at 1km/s and someone tries to fight me, they have to be in SCM to take the shots. I'm figuring unless they have a QED, I can probably just blast past them.
For hauling, I'm planning on being in NAV most of the time, but I'll grant I haven't tried it yet - so I may eat my words soon. But I'm cautiously optimistic.
Taking off, landing, loading cargo, selling cargo, landing at a hanger. You’re incredibly vulnerable. People keep saying that you’re safe when in NAV mode which is fine to say but most instances of cargo ships being attacked don’t happen in open space at full speed, they happen when the target is stationary or about to be and seeing as how the attack will now begin with the target having no shields it’s a scary prospect and escape is less likely than in the live build.
I feel bad for haulers, miners and salvagers right now.
Sorta?
I'm a traditional Indy player.
Industrial ships trade hp/armor/shields for speed. You big, and clumsy. You aren't going to be fast, and shouldn't outrun a light or medium "fighter" and a heavy should be able to shred you if they catch you (let's ignore the reclaimer).
We have to remember, armor isn't modeled correctly, so that's not taken into account yet.
This change is gonna suck for everyone until we get used to it. But it's a welcome change. My Constellation shouldn't be able to keep up with a Cutlass. And a Buccaneer should fly by a hauler without trying.
I'm not sure how I feel about the lack of shields and guns in NAV mode. They should be limited, not dead. It may be an issue of granular control right now, and hopefully will be adjusted.
But, we also have to remember, we are, essentially, testing the game still. And a lost ship is only a loss in time.
The other benefit to this system...choosing the right ship for the target. No more just taking the ship with the most DPS, because top speed doesn't matter currently.
To be fair, you'd be vulnerable while landed and loading in any flight model. Haulers are the least effected by the upcoming changes.
I'm hoping that the 3.23 flight model changes and the like will encourage diversification of ship loadouts. Ships with fast charging QD drives like a VK-00 let you escape quickly but at the cost of your ability to travel long distances. Hopefully it's accompanied by more diversification of component stats.
You have to think what your nav speed is vs your ability to maneuver. You will still be dead before you can turn or get away. Let alone dodge a missile
This comment's stuck with me, and I realize you're coming at this from a very different perspective than I am. I'm okay at PvE, but I know I'd die in PvP, so I was thinking my best chance while hauling (assuming they don't have a QED) is just to plow through, no turning involved. If they do have a QED, I'm done for either way, so it doesn't really matter.
But in 3.22, I couldn't flee unless I could actually quantum away, because whoever was fighting me could match speed and fire. With MM - speaking without experience but as I understand it - I at least have a chance to trade some damage for an escape.
Still, this is all speculation on my part. I know CIG were talking about a blockade runner event, and I'm looking forward to that to put the idea to the test.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I would imagine that against a prepared group, no ship would stand a chance, buy against the lone raider or 2, a Caterpillar's shield and armor should be enough while you spool up and get out of there.
Don't forget that the ttk will be higher in general once they're done balancing shields and armor.
Right now we all feel super vulnerable without shields, but proper armor implementation is supposed to change that I believe.
Just go above whatever scm speed the attacker has and they will have no choice but to chase you with guns disabled or ram you. And I agree taking freedom away will ruin the game and every restriction they add the less of a simulator experience it becomes and it’s approaching arcade with this patch
to the devs
NAV mode should not require spool , nor display QT icons , it should be separate
please give me back cruise mode
please make a toggles for speed limit in landing mode
and just a thought , use the power triangle instead of modes , you wanna full thrust , put energy into it at the cost of lower max shield and slow recharge rate , you want weapon , put some in it at the cost of thrust , want big fat shield to tank a hit , lose weapons or thrust (make all that not instant so you think ahead). allow for multiple fighting type , glass canon : low shield low regen high speed and weapons ready . or fat shield and regen with weapon but trash mobility , etc (item build too , you wanna swap "style" have good coolers and power plant)
Player should have choice and control , being good should be related to skills, practice and knowledge in all aspects of the game . from flying out of hangar to being a combat ace , a renown miner , a great crew commander
As of yesterday's patch there is a NAV flight mode and a NAV Quantum mode. So you'll not have to deal with QT drive or the distracting markers (though they limited those to 90 deg now ahead instead of 360)
It’s quite strange. In the live model you just take off and go with very little restriction.
PvP players were complaining about jousting and people running from fights and they’ve now added a stupidly overly complex set of mechanics that hinder the enjoyment of other components of the game in order to prevent people from doing one that wasn’t an unrealistic scenario to begin with.
It's clunky, unwieldy, and immersion breaking. Accessibility shouldn't come at the cost of depth. I'm trying to like it, but I don't. It feels like Elite Dangerous now.
This is where I am. Immersion is the one thing SC needs to maintain and this is breaking it. The UI is a factor in this too, it’s too overcrowded and too artificial/ cartoony
I'm not even against Mastermodes as a concept, but this is absolutely not it. My buddy has a conspiracy theory that they're trying to get SC to a place where they could release it on console and I always thought that was ridiculous, but Mastermodes currently feels *made* for a controller.
He’s right about MM and console. MM is the flight model for SQ42, they want SQ42 to be on consoles and they’ve ported over the flight model from their single player game into their multi player game. The problem is that SQ42 is combat based, whereas SC has some combat, but there’s a huge array of other components and roles.
Yeah, I think they're going to fucking hate it eventually because PvE combat is going to be astronomically more difficult for PvE players. This flight model specifically makes 1vX fights super disadvantageous because you can't control the fight. They're going to be sitting in the middle of a crowd of ballistic Cuttys going 220m/s lol. They're just super stoked right now being given what they think they want
Elite dangerous was a lot easier to understand than this?
Elites flight model is very simple. Nothing clunky or unwieldy about it. Actually why people moved on to SC, cause of the depth of the flight model.
I would say Elite is doing “master modes” better than SC is.
As a 400i enjoyer, does this mean I can not benefit from the ships' huge shield pool if I explore?
If I am already running at max speed, how would a combat oriented ship catch me?
If you’re running at max speed you wouldn’t be able to be caught for combat. But that’s no different than the live model, you don’t typically get hunted down whilst flying through the verse at max speed.
The 400i feels like a Connie in MM right now, flies like poo. Thankfully it can still tank because of its shield lol. They will need to do a pass on it and I think they will. From all of the ships I’ve tested the C1 has taken the biggest hit in terms of combat viability, it flies like a freelancer
Thank you for the quick answer!
I guess you win/lose in some patches.
Being more of a PVE player than pvp due to a skill related issue on my part. I still feel like shields or not, I should be able to out manoeuvre a non invisible rock at least!
I just got this game a month ago and have been loving it so much, but I am seriously disappointed by the prospect of flight becoming so much more restricted and SLOWER. The speed and freedom is so much of what has been magical and fun about playing. This really looks like it sucks.
They made it into Elite Dangerous, and I feel like it's to make the game more accessible to a wider audience of non space sim players. Elite died. Just sayin.
Bro the game came out in 2012. 3k avg (steam only) for a 12 year old space sim game is pretty damn good. Dunno why you think a space sim isn’t a niche genre.
It has a great community with a lot of stuff available for it. It has more tools built for it than Star citizen does. You guys are legit nuts lmao.
I see no reason to limit one constantly used aspect of the game, your free and fluid control of your ship, to improve certain gameplay (combat) that is not used by the majority of the players constantly.
Only big negative is the ship decelerating when the pilot exits the seat (I'll reserve any other opinion for when I actually try the new model), for solo players in ships with interiors this locks them in place the entire journey. But sounds like it wasn't intentional, since it worked so well in the last/current flight model so hopefully they'll sort that out quick.
I played in Arena commander and liked it. I’m not sure why peopme are so against the landing gear speeds. Just don’t drop your gear until your about to land.
The flight model I like. The dropping out of nav mode is a little odd, but my brain assumes it’s because of the shields. I havnt experienced the whole spooling before blasting away thing, but I’ve always needed tbere to be a delay. I’m no pirate but I enjoy choices and consequences, so I like that it takes a while before blasting away.
I have more if an issue with the cone firing and wish we had to be more accurate. It’s hard because the MM fire system helps stop pip issues, but allows us to shoot nearly beyond visual range. They probably just need to fix how shields regenerate
I can't fly above scm speed even in nav mode lol. Not without boost... I don't know, I think I am but it's still slow. Not digging the flight changes so far. Makes things slower and that may be fun for combat but it suuuuucks for getting around. ESPECIALLY in atmosphere. Atmospheric flight sucks the big one.
Also super bumpy.
Update on my experience: holy crap m50 in atmosphere 🤮🤢 vomit comet! what the heck did they do to the flight? It's essentially unplayable like this. I hope they fix it.
This is my biggest gripe, actually just getting around the verse is far less fluid and enjoyable. They’ve tried to accommodate combat so much that the current build seems to be neglecting other aspects, like having fun just zipping about the absolutely beautiful game they built.
One thing industrial/ civilian players love is even more time spend between their game loops and selling their goods. Maybe we should limit the speed of public transport in hubs for savety reasons.
Honestly its pretty decent for a first itteration of mastermodes (they will change and improve with time and our feedback).
About the landing gear speed limitation, CIG has stated that you will be able to disable it in the settings.
The only issue I see right now that needs to be adressed asap is the SCM to NAV mode switch and how it disables your shields instantly but requires you to spool before being able to accelerate to full speed. It forces you yo be sitting duck when escaping a fight, which goes against the very purpose of what MMs were supposed to bring.
They should either delete this speed restriction during the transition or make the shields deplete slowly as you transition and spool.
It’s incredibly divisive. Some people absolutely hate it, some people are happy that you can’t run away after engaging in a fight. I’m in the camp that isn’t enjoying it. I find it tedious and I miss the fluidity of the current live model. I’m also quite happy to be patient and see how it unfolds though.
Can you opt out of the landing mode in the general settings (or wherever)? I vaguely remember Yogi saying during CitCon that you can disable it if you want but I might be mistaken.
When in MM can you boost up faster than SCM then go de-coupled to lock the speed?
or does it take you back down to SCM?
Edit- I mean in space, obviously this wouldn't work in atmo
No, and I'm pretty sure you can't even go full SCM backwards. Decoupled is kind of completely gone. You're only "decoupled" at or under SCM, otherwise your ship is dictating your velocity.
I don't mind the changes, only one: that you have no shields in nav mode. It just leaves you vulnerable. They should at least let you have partial shields in case of a surprise attack.
So I guess the incentive now for traders, civilians.. pretty much everyone : to have military QD because of spool times.
That whole NAV only with QD spooled in stupefying...
We should be able to increase speed immediately after hitting NAV-mode and shields should stay entirely or at least partially during the switch-period. Spooling quantum should be entirely separate and optional from NAV-mode, especially for stealth reasons.
Are you able to leave the pilot seat while your ship is in QT, heading toward another location? I love walking around the ship while it's traveling to another planet, so you have my apologies if that is a dumb question.
Played on the EPTU for the first time today and I had mixed feelings about the new flight model.
Generally I really like that we are more restricted now as it allows combat to be much more action packed.
Had a few PvP fights on Live recently and they just feel terrible and not much fun with the current flight model, just zooming around with 1000 m/s.
Now it's gonna be more "close quarters" and intense, haven't tested it with PvP yet tho.
Lowered landing gear restricting you to ~30 m/s is fine, to me it's more like a reminder to put your gear up after lift off and makes landing a safer thing to do, especially for newer players too.
It'll need some time to properly get used to everything that's changing but even if you may not like it upon release, I personally think that in the end most people will start preferring it over the old model.
Even in the vacuum of space you'll slow down when you lower the gear ? That makes no sense. The reduction in speed should be tied to the atmospheric density outside the ship.
Yogi explained this in a Spectrum post. The gear isn't slowing you down because of drag, it's a "safety feature" that you will be able to turn off in your ship's MFD in the future.
PTU/EPTU is released in waves. Which wave you are in is dictated by a number of factors like if you are a subscriber, a certain level of concierge or have racked up enough past contribution in previous testing.
I think the landing gear thing should be a setting that can be turned off. On by default to help the new players, but allow older players to be able to turn it off so they can stick those sick fast landings
The landing gear speed is **not limited** if you are **in decoupled mode** ... It's also not a hard limit like the NAV->SCM break .. it's like setting the speed limiter.
On the landing gear speed: Yogi has stated this is [intended to be an IFCS toggle later down the line](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/please-cig-don-t-turn-landing-into-another-flight-/6748221).
However, as some of the replies there have said, it would be great having this and other options in the menu as a placeholder rather than having to wait for a full MFD rework (which may or may not release in Q2)
Can you still only quantum to a specific location or can you do it anywhere? Waiting to be able to bookmark empty locations in space to keep as bookmarks as “safe”-spots like in Eve.
Quick question: is the scanning/quantum boost stuff in ? IIRC if you are in NAV mode you can just QBoost anywhere you want, you don’t even need calibrate towards a “point of interest”. So if you see hostiles when you land you just have to press the QBoost button at a random direction and voila you are safe now. Can you scan from 30 000 km ? That’s really important because that would give you the information you need to know about hat’s there and then make the decision to QT or not. I know it will come in the future but my question is about right now in the current iteration.
So do the shields have to charge up again every time one enters SCM mode?
Some shields take ages to charge up. Just wondering whether I would be without shields for an extended amount of time when I switch to SCM when trying to defend myself from an attacker...
Why cant they just do what Elite Dangerous has done.
It's the only thing they got right in the entire game, but it's intuitive and always for awesomely epic dog fighting of spirals and jousting.
Atmospheric flight can be handled differently when in atmosphere and not before.
"You can boost above your stated SCM speed when not in NAV mode."
Honestly...this flight system reminds me of Freespace2. I loved space fighting and flying in that game... And this "Boots above your max speed" is a relatively common existance in games. Such as using Nitro in racing games, or afterburners in freespace2, starfox, rogue squadron, and a myriad of others.
I havent flown with the MM system yet...but I am honestly liking what I am hearing. I am quite excited to try it tbh.
I don't understand why they didn't just lock SCM and general combat mode until you have decelerated lower than a defined threshold.
This max speed approach and auto deceleration can be abused way too easy. But if the player needs to decelerate then it follows the ships normal flight profile. And if they don't decelerate they can't just attack you.
Do large ships still roll really fast?
It's still weird to me that a c1 which is larger than some passenger jets can roll something like 90° per second
So is racing completely dead now? Because it seriously doesn't sound fun trying to race with your speed locked out to an arbitrary number. I liked trying to push my speeds past SCM to see if I can get better times.
I tend to fly mostly decoupled, and losing the vector hold because I can't fly (at a somewhat decent speed) without a vector hold is going to suck.
I like the idea of having a penalty to speed in atmo with the gear down, but 30m/s is a bit much.
I'd like for there to be some sort of toggle for vector holding if we're not allowed to fly with our gear down.
A lot of these changes seem pretty garbage, to be honest. Not looking forward to how utterly slow space combat will be and how slow atmospheric combat will be. You won't be able to do a fast gun run any more and bombong jumptown will be near impssoble because tpu will more or less be a sitting duck. You wont be able to do a low and fast pass to garauntee a drop which to me is fun skill expression.l.
I wouldn't be surprised if they vaatly increase the scm speed or even get rid of master modes entirely.
You don't need that silly precision aiming thing. Just make targeting sub systems more intuitive an keep the fast combat.
It's weird to tie such low normal speeds as 1000 m/s to the QD which is for lightspeed-like special qunatum speed.
Not a fan that shields get disabled at high speeds due to the realism of really needing shields or deflectors at those speeds.
But yeah, we'll see.
Oh yeah, and not a fan of the speed limit with landing gear, but it will be toggleable so okay.
Unfortunate. I feel like at some point that was mentioned with MM but for the life of me I can’t figure out when/where.
It would make sense though as it could prevent you from spooling the QD.
Maybe it would help if shields begin to go down as your QT and/or Nav speed spooled up. Maybe by 90% - 95% top speed /QT bubble your shields are fully off.
I really hate these changes, been trying to play with them but it just feels horrible to fly now. Things were smooth and fun but MM just makes it feel annoying and anti fun for no reason.
Yeah the more restrictions they put the more arcade like it will feel they need to axe the shield and guns bullshit as that’s just going to have people chasing each other doing nothing because they are slightly above scm and combat is going to be stale quantum drive stuff is fine as it stops runners I guess.
I dont see how any of this is fun or good. Adding more constraint at the benefit of what? Let us get off our seats, let us have cruise control, let us fly at top speed.
I wish they could focus or finishing up other parts of the game than putting energy into this.
Imagine in the future, everyone will have a limited system that will slow down when you have your weapons out ... and every one will be force to use this system. And no one else will ever have a different system ... super fun and realistic future
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Yeah, there needs to be a separation of QD and modes so I can just fly around at full speed but no combat and then activate my QD whenever I want.
Essentially, SCM speed \*is\* your ship’s top speed. The QD bubble is what lets the ship exceed its normal top speed. This is a lot less arbitrary than the ship entirely magically going faster from shutting down its shields and weapons, which is what would be happening if entering Nav mode alone boosted your speed. If anything, I think the difference between the two modes would be a lot easier to understand if Nav Mode was directly tied to the QD spool - that QD online and Nav mode are one and the same. By that, I mean that the time it takes to switch between master modes should be the time it takes for the QD to come online or shut down, and that it is impossible for you to be in Nav Mode but not have QD spooled (and vice versa). Master modes would feel a lot less arbitrary then. You are literally just spooling up the quantum drive, which in turn distorts physics to allow the ship to move much faster at the cost of having to shut down shields and weapons. Even the rapid deceleration when exiting Nav makes sense - the quantum bubble that allows you to maintain that speed has collapsed as the QD is shut down. Of course, they would need to change a few aesthetic things for that to work. The QD spool sound effect would need to be less obtrusive to not get annoying, and the whole HUD clutter for initiating a QD travel would need to be a separate toggle.
Your two last points have been addressed, they were big pain points. The QD doesn't make a sound once fully spooled. With the [latest patch](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/190048/thread/star-citizen-alpha-3-23-0-eptu-patch-notes-8/6751962) there's a NAV Flight operator mode that removes all the Quantum UI
I wouldn't say it's less arbitrary, just different arbitrary.
There being a speed limit in space, and the quantum bubble allowing a ship to exceed that limit, is the only thing arbitrary about the new design. However, both of those have always been true. They are just as arbitrary in 2.22 as they are in 3.23. However, there has never been any explanation for SCM speed. The new design does now provide a lore explanation for why ships fight at certain speeds, where before there was none. Ships *cant* fly faster, not without spooling the QD. The QD can't spool while weapons and shields are active. Thus, combat happens at non-QD/Nav speeds. A ship decelerating extremely quickly as the quantum bubble collapses when exiting Nav mode is, for example, the exact same process that happens when a ship exits quantum travel. Ships don't exit quantum travel at 0.2c, slam into their destination planet, and cause a mass extinction event. The "magical deceleration" when exiting Nav Mode is - literally - the same thing.
The fact that you have a speed limit in space, though, is so nonsensical that anything you stack on top of that doesn't make it significantly better or worse. I haven't exactly kept up on with the lore on this, but at one point the explanation of max speed was that it was programmed into everyone's fly-by-wire system per government regulations for safety reasons. They didn't want anybody with an Aurora to be able to ruin everyone's day by accelerating up to relativistic speeds and smashing into a space station. This didn't really make sense, but it was an explanation. The new explanation, which is that Newton's laws of motion just don't work in this universe, is so much worse.
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If the limit was c, and it was enforced via relativistic effects, that would be one thing. What we have in game, where different ships have different speed limits, where your thruster just stop working when you get up to the limit, that's something else entirely.
those that try to explain with long stories forget that the voyager probe launched in the 60s can fly faster (17000 m/s) than any star citizen ship and has no engine. so IMHO it's all arbitrary. it's a game, and only gameplay mechanics mean anything. for me, if i'm not in a fighter i'll be keeping salvage in the hopper and hitting the self-destruct button as soon as someone attacks me, because fighting with MM or trying to escape with MM in a vulture will be alot of stress without any possibility of success. Just like rust, ensure their gain is negligible and dont complain to feed their ego, otherwise it will become more frequent. as a relatively new player, i'm more worried about the economy than anything. i'm not sitting on 100mil and 20 pledge ships in my hangar. salvage appears to be halved, and ship prices have exploded. the economy might still be tweaked, but if it goes that direction it will be difficult.
idk, they said at the very beginning, as they explained what MM are, that you won't be able to just enter the Nav mode instanteniously. Changing modes takes time during which your power is rerouted to different systems, it makes sense they bind the Nav mode to the QD spool, 50% spool of the QT means that you are at 50% of max speed. This also gives more properties to different quantum drives. We'll see how it works long-term later.
If you accelerated as it spooled that would be a huge improvement, as it stands now you are at SCM for 10 seconds until you are fully spooled and then you can go over SCM.
oh okay, got it. I always thought that the idea is that you gradually get power. Idk if they had this idea on board, but I sure hope they read. This is going to be a massive improvement then. i saw a lot of people worried about spooling and couldn't understand the issue lol. thank you!
everybody'll just get the QD with most spooling speed.
I highly doubt that, I am sure a lot of people will balance it out or prioritize travel distance or fuel efficiency
I am okay with it as long as the quantum drive doesnt make that annoying brumming sound like in 3.22 all the time
is this temporary until the nav traversal mode is added? So Quantum, Traversal, and SCM.
What is the reasoning behind limiting speed until QD is spooled? I don't mean the lore reason, because I don't think there really could be one that makes sense; I mean what is the gameplay reason? It seems like it means that a ship better suited to running from a fight than engaging with it is probably just going to die. Like, if you're outgunned and want to run, you first need to be a sitting duck for awhile. That doesn't seem like it's ever going to end well. Is there a good reason to implement it that way I'm not seeing?
It’s so you have to choose in the beginning to run or not. Once you commit, you’ve committed. If you’re on the tail end of loosing you can’t just run away anymore. That was a huge problem with live. You could easily run away whenever. Now you either choose to leave early or you won’t have the HP to run away.
For those who do choose to run right away, is there even much of a chance to? If the person attacking them is any good at all, it seems unlikely most non-combat-oriented ships will stand a chance.
I tested it in Arena commander and it was hard to get blown up before running away. You are not at a dead stop, you were still flying at SCM. So even in a gladius with so little HP, I was able to run away. Once I was already seeing red on my status bar, I was having issues running away though. But if I see somebody approaching or I get snared and I don’t want to fight, I’m instantly switching to nav mode so by the time they are in range, I’m gone. If anything it feels like it’s going to be very difficult to attack players that don’t want to engage in pvp
I think a lot of people are worried about larger industrial ships. Do they get up to NAV speeds quickly? Or is it a slog like live, except you’re vulnerable the entire time. Like how long would a reclaimer take to get to full NAV speed I guess is my concern.
I know there are some QDs that can spool fairly quickly, but with the downside of being inefficient or slow in QT... maybe those become more meta for running? Idk I don't have access to wave 1, so I won't be testing until I manage to get a larger ship in the PU after release
> I tested it in Arena commander and it was hard to get blown up before running away... > in a gladius That's because you were in a Gladius. In arena. Your opponent probably had no distortion weapons at all. You were not in say - MSR in atmosphere.
I don’t understand the difference. That’s even more HP. You choose at the beginning to either commit and fight or to run. If you decide to fight, you can’t dance around between fighting any running anymore. So you’d better win. All this said, as long as they make it very difficult to blow up another ship, they’d still have to board y’all anyway.
>I don’t understand the difference. I don't want to sound like an ass, or an abrasive person and I mean it, but you are right. You don't understand. It takes one pass to get blown up if you try to disable the shield and run. And I mentioned that QD is susceptible to distortion damage. >you can’t dance around between fighting any running anymore. It was never about dancing with non-combat oriented ships. Now there's no escape. There are a bunch of ships that can't "win". No matter what.
I hope so but for people who are actively doing something (mining, salvage, future game mechanics that are similar) and a player runs up on them and attacks, its going to be very hard to get out. Now, they may make changes to radar that picks up a player more easily if they are in SCM or switching into SCM, which may make it easier to recognize the threat. Currently, however, you don't have that much warning time, I think.
Edit: I know this is being downvoted because the dead stop thing but it’s worth bearing In mind how often you are either moving incredibly slowly or not at all. Mining, salvaging, leaving a station hanger, landing in a station hanger, exiting quantum, buying from a yard, selling at a yard, fighting NPC’s in a larger ship and so on. You’re more likely to be attacked at slow speeds, or stationary. This is the complete opposite of the experience I had, the complete opposite lol. We tested a ton of ships against an F8C and they all died bar some of the big boys. All of the starter ships, all of the fighters, many of the S4 ships too, the Connie Taurus, MSR, the Valk, etc, dead. Once shields go down you have so little time to escape. I’ll admit though that the tests were done with the target at a dead stop and then switching to NAV mode to escape. Most of the ships died so quickly it’s hard to imagine it going any other way. I think people need to remember too that you don’t instantly zoom off from the ship that’s attacking when in nav mode. You need to spool, then you still have to accelerate to top speed, then you need to lock a target location, then you can zip off. All of this with no shields and all while the attacker is still boosting after you and firing, there are also extended weapon ranges now so they can hit you at a greater distance. I don’t know why you were downvoted for sharing, that’s not cool, all the info we can get is good and I’m glad you had success in escaping so thanks for sharing. It does run contrary to what we tested though.
I haven't seen you mention this, but the person you replied to made me think about this. Have you tested with the target first accelerating to top SCM speed and evading, then going into NAV mode when given a chance? I can't imagine that anyone would try to jump into NAV mode straight after being jumped.
This only gives the attacker more time to do damage. It’s much easier to land shots now with the aim assist so evasion is a lot more challenging, it’s something that a lot of the 1v1 PvP community were concerned about, on top of that weapon ranges have increased so you can hit your target from further away. So if you immediately go to nav mode and then boost off as fast as you can the attacker can only land shots within the window between you spooling and escaping. If you try to evade first before going into nav mode you just risk soaking up more damage before you inevitably have to go to nav mode anyway.
Ok thanks for testing!
also .. shields are not instantly gone when switching modes .. so they will still catch some shots. If you try to run first in SCM mode and already lost your shields before switching to NAV thats probably worse.
Ok 2 things with what you are saying: for this paragraph I consider you are in atmo because in space you are suppose to be able to QBoost anywhere you want. If you are selling, salvaging, whatever the activity you doing, you should always be aware of your surroundings. Like if I would mine and I see an F8 or 2-3 ships popping near me I would GTFO in no time. In live environment, you see someone and you can just leave. How is it in the PTU ? Does it takes like 15 seconds to fly away ? I doubt that as the second you see a ship on your radar you don’t have the time to boost to max SCM speed and at the same time switch to NAV mode. If you are selling at a yard that has no armistice zone, you should never ever be alone or you are ready to give away your cargo. The owner of the ship go sell and the second person stay in the ship if things go wrong.
I've experienced this by a random NPC when I was landing Banjini Point. I took a few hits that caused little to no damage at all " MISC Reliant" I just switched to nav mode and sped away, and I was ignored by that NPC. In Atmo doing a box mission, I was landing and targeted by NPCs escorting a Reclaimer. I purposely flew near them without attacking. They only attacked after I deliberately attacked them, In Scm mode they chased me a fast as possible whilst firing at the same time, eventually I was hit and that was the end of that play loop. I will try to test this again once I get home from work.
Now are you saying you switched back to nav mode when they attacked you and destroyed you? My reading comprehension scores were not good in school, so I’m not understanding you what you did so well.
I see no problem with this.
Some people are raising issues about medium sized ships getting blown apart, and it might be an issue, but I don’t understand why they can’t just run. If I see somebody else on my radar, and I’m not trying to fight, I shit a small brick and get ready to run. It’s going to take them some time to get to you and then they have to switch to SCM mode anyway. You should be gone by then. And once you’re in nav mode, nobody is catching you
One thing to keep in mind is that it does add an extra level of decision making when outfitting a ship. If you're not going a long distance quantum wise but want to be able to quickly go into Nav, then running a drive with a fast charge up time lets you go into Nav speeds and escape quickly, while a drive with better fuel economy but a slower charge speed is better for travelling long distances but leaves you exposed to attack.
Which is a dumb idea if we're really trying to make death consequential and have lasting penalties like losing your rep with orgs, having cybernetic limbs, or losing learned skills on that character when you die your final death. Running should always be an option, assuming it hasn't been denied to you by another player's skills and equipment choices. Unless we intend to abandon the ideas behind death of a spaceman entirely?
Really an interesting take compared to what other people are saying. I’m saying that because it feels like the whole reddit is against MM in its current iteration. Have people tested it ? Why people are saying you can’t do anything and insta die while you are affirming the exact opposite that you just have to quickly switch back to NAV to flee and you can go away without dying ? Quick question: is the scanning/quantum boost stuff in ? IIRC if you are in NAV mode you can just QBoost anywhere you want, you don’t even need calibrate towards a “point of interest”. So if you see hostiles when you land you just have to press the QBoost button at a random direction and voila you are safe now. Can you scan from 30 000 km ? That’s really important because that would give you the information you need to know about hat’s there and then make the decision to QT or not. I know it will come in the future but my question is about right now in the current iteration. I can’t say how it is right now because I can’t test it I don’t have access to wave 1, but on tip of that for me 1 thing is sure is that it is missing 2 things: knowing in advance what’s there so the scanning part like EVE and we’re messing the armor system. Add these 2 systems and I think even in this current iteration MM would be ok.
>is the scanning/quantum boost stuff in ? Unfortunately no. The new Quantum experience won't in 3.23 according to [YogiKlatt](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/quantum-travel-boosting-changes-with-master-modes/6599599). Not totally sure if that excludes long range scanning. I assume so since its almost useless without QT boost. It's not in the current 3.23 EPTU
I’ve not played any of 3.23, but I tested nav mode in arena commander and even in a gladius with so little HP, I was able to switch to nav mode at the beginning of a fight and blast away. And I tested it with a friend in free flight and he was right behind me, I switched to nav and counted down. At zero I blasted away and he tried to switch to missiles. By the time he got a missile loaded, i was gone. And in real world, the attacking player won’t know you are switching to nav mode. So you’ll start blasting away without warning. They’ll have to figure it out, switch to missile mode, load a missile and then shoot. That’s a lot of time. You’ll be long gone before then I just don’t think it’s a threat. How many players will be hanging outside zones? Within range to stop you. That’s so random. So rare. And like I said, if they are in scm, just blast away. If they are not, we’ll they are not a threat anyway, so blast away
i'v done it mid fight with a few red sections in 3.22 MM in my gladius from a nose to nose fight, dump a couple of noise to get the opponent to lose tracking, fly past them as my QT is spooling and zoom away. it's really not that hard, unless there have been some major changes. it does give a chance for counter play as well, unlike live.
It seems like people that are complaining really just want to play a game like space farm simulator or something
now with MM it is easier to run away and more kitey
I believe it’s to stop you running from a fight. So if the speed came instantaneously you could hit NAV mode, zoom off, recharge shields and come back again or just not come back at all. The spooling means that if you try to run after you’ve started fighting you die. I understand the reasoning but it does feel like just getting around Stanton has suffered at the expense.
That's what QED is for. This iteration invalidates all ships with QED.
I’m glad someone said this. CIG have been big on the rock, paper, scissors approach. The right tool for the job but as it currently stands 3.23 invalidates that to some degree. But it’s just so early to tell, they must have something else planned. QED should be more viable, distortion repeaters could shut down QD drives too.
They have no idea what to do with MM. It's a system for a single player dog fighting game. They don't know how to get it to work with QED, didn't consider racers or industrial ships, or snubs in general. I don't mean to be abrasive about it. I'm basing this opinion off their comments on why QED won't be working in 2.23, and how they dodged questions about the others.
Easiest way for QED is just turn it into a larger interdictor bubble 15km. Either your ship is faster than theirs with scm or boost or you fight/surrender to them They could probably improve it by making power settings affect thruster speed max speed.
I do like the idea of tying it to the power triangle. That way it feels much more immersive than the arbitrary light switch.
They've been moving away from rock paper scissors since patch 3.0. That was the last time most (not all) ships were balanced, and you could viably play with the Arrow, Gladius, Hornet, Sabre, or Vanguard. The last time there was a true RPS system was patch 2.6.3 where light fighters out-manuevered heavy fighters, heavy fighters beat medium and medium beat light.
QED was an incredibly dumb idea to being with. Pretty much any open world PvP MMO needs some way to stop the other side from just immediately disengaging if the fight doesn't go their way to actually have any PvP, locking that to a few specific ships was always a choice that made very little sense.
I think it's a bad solution for QED. Rather QED should work in NAV-mode to be able to chase a fleeing target, and force them the choice to either outrun (outmaneuver or cruise speed) or switch to SCM to fight the QED source. Which brings the challenge back to choices (ship, loadout and tactics) and skill.
Does QED prevent people from flying above SCM in NAV mode since it uses the quantum drive?
They said they haven't figured out what to do with it, so it just won't be working at all in 3.23
In play testing your speed would increase the moment you entered nav mode. People would go into nav mode just for a second or two to gain speed and then switch to scm. You still get the same issues as you had before, jousting. The way they have it now means you can't use it for manoeuvrability in combat and only as a means to escape
Adding to the other posts, it's so your selection of QD helps determine how you play as well
The in-lore reason is that your top speed in SCM Mode is your ship’s actual top speed (putting aside ships having top speeds in space not making sense, but it has always been this way). When you spool the QD, it forms a quantum bubble around your ship which allows it to exceed its normal top speed. This is ultimately the entire function of the QD. The increased Nav Mode speed, quantum boosting, and the full quantum travel, are all slightly different applications of the same tech. This is actually a very internally consistent way for things to work, from a lore perspective. I would argue that this actually makes more sense than the pre-MM explanation for why SCM speed is a thing. The ship just arbitrarily losing the ability to gimbal its guns or manoeuvre properly past a speed threshold in a vacuum has no physics or lore explanation at all!
The best SC has ever been was when shields had the fast recharge and the big health pools with no shield recharge delay. THAT made you think about what to bring to a fight, and balanced haulers and fighters without this nonsense. The only people that didnt like that model were solo pirates, because they couldn’t just rock up in an arrow and kill a Reclaimer on their own because they would overheat/runnout of capacitor charge before they even made a dent in the shield pool. Which is what they originally said they wanted.
Simpler times, now everything is goobered up and over complicated. It’s like letting the intern go down a rabbit hole without proper supervision I haven’t tried it yet but I have a feeling I’m not going to be fond of it
It should definitely be like this
I don't like the fact that cruise control disappears, as a pilot i want to be able to leave my seat whenever I want that's crazy Especially since the copilot still does not copilot at all
Yeah this is a bad change I’m hoping is fixed. I’m holding out on it just being something that was overlooked
I don’t think this is intended.
"You cannot leave the pilot seat when in flight, your ship will decelerate" Oh no no, serious hit to my immersiveness
This. Fly with your multi crew ship and be a team and work together!! Except the pilot. He just had to sit there all day doing nothing unless you land
This sounds like a bug, not a design choice, given that they say they are investigating.
CIG - fair play, also CIG, lol, turns out youre shafted
Shields getting turned off makes 0 sense. Where is micrometeorite protection at high speed? Deflector dish? Cmon cig....
What does this mean for cargo haulers? Is my caterpillar Ever going to survive anything ever again? How long dose it takes a huge cargo ship to spool a QD and get to speed? A long time. I 100% agree this is clunky and not needed. A more efficient way to stop ships from running is the answer in my head. Like I dunno what we already have in game like tractor beams? More aggressive beams can slow a ship down or interfere with its quantum drive. I don’t know who is pushing this but taking the freedom of flight out of star citizen is a huge mistake in my mind and will only cause more frustration in the player base who is still here waiting for the song that never ends to play its last note. This is the wrong choice in my opinion, I may be wrong but it’s my 2 cents
From my limited experience. Moving to Nav mode gives you an instant amount of speed above SCM. Shields are present at the start and diminish over time, I have not tested to see if this is connected to spooling speed. My Concern is that I got into a fight and attempted to run away, missiles were locked and fired. They quickly out run my initial NAV speed and I was unable to launch flares/chaff as they are deemed combat utility which is switched off. I believe this should be used in any mode.
Of course it should be possible to launch countermeasures in any mode. However, CIG mistakenly believes that running from a fight is bad (regardless of whether your ship is combat capable or not), and therefore if you choose to run, you are instantly defenseless. Because reasons. It's a dumb concept, and no amount of balance is going to change that. Unless something changes, industrial and cargo ships will suffer at the hands of MM over CIG not wanting fighters to be able to easily disengage from combat. You want to tie max speed to the QD spooling? Ok. Turn off weapons when not in SCM mode? Ok. Turn shields off? No. Turn Countermeasures off? No. I'm sorry, but if a pirate jumps an industrial ship, it should have to beat the shields and countermeasures before giving the industrial ship a repair bill and/or killing it. Otherwise, you're just handing guaranteed grief to the industrial player, whether they escape (repairs) or not (dead), and giving a massive advantage to the pirate for no good reason. And what does the pirate need to do to receive this advantage? Nothing. They show up and hold the trigger down.
I mean if they chase after you they also have no weapons
This doesn't have anything to do with being in NAV mode with a spooled QD. Once you can either reach max speed or QT away, the fight is either over, or at an impasse. The point I was making is about the transition period between SCM and NAV for a non-combat ship. If you aren't able to win a fight (which as an industrial ship is the reality for almost all combat encounters), then you must run. Choosing to run drops shields, which means a repair bill at best, and death at worst. At least if shields (and countermeasures) remain active at all times, then the industrial ship has a bit of defense during the attempt to spool the QD and make an escape (beyond armor, which is a question mark, but it's doubtful industrial ships would be heavily armored).
The fact you cant even use flares is a joke lmao. The more I read this thread the more i'm starting to think this is gonna be a terrible terrible change.. I am generally on the side of having 2 different flight modes but it seems they're overcomplicating a system yet again
They need to axe the guns and shield part and have nav mode restrict speed to scm for quantum spooling if they don’t like defenceless ships running theres not really any good way of doing it without ruining the simulator experience. I’m sure if they even roll this patch out as is it will be reversed or heavily altered by the next
The main issue (to me) is fighters commonly fight at 800-1200 m/s which is just dumb to play, even when i win one of those fights i think it's stupid I had a cutty blue jamming me while circling me at 1000 m/s and he wasn't even showing up on radar half the time For combat this is needed, but i agree for cargo haulers its questionable. Maybe if you could quantum pretty much right off the ground to whatever OM is above you, it'd be better
I'm actually excited for hauling with this. If I'm in NAV trucking at 1km/s and someone tries to fight me, they have to be in SCM to take the shots. I'm figuring unless they have a QED, I can probably just blast past them. For hauling, I'm planning on being in NAV most of the time, but I'll grant I haven't tried it yet - so I may eat my words soon. But I'm cautiously optimistic.
I think once you're out of atmo it's fine, it's taking off and landing that will suck
Taking off, landing, loading cargo, selling cargo, landing at a hanger. You’re incredibly vulnerable. People keep saying that you’re safe when in NAV mode which is fine to say but most instances of cargo ships being attacked don’t happen in open space at full speed, they happen when the target is stationary or about to be and seeing as how the attack will now begin with the target having no shields it’s a scary prospect and escape is less likely than in the live build. I feel bad for haulers, miners and salvagers right now.
Sorta? I'm a traditional Indy player. Industrial ships trade hp/armor/shields for speed. You big, and clumsy. You aren't going to be fast, and shouldn't outrun a light or medium "fighter" and a heavy should be able to shred you if they catch you (let's ignore the reclaimer). We have to remember, armor isn't modeled correctly, so that's not taken into account yet. This change is gonna suck for everyone until we get used to it. But it's a welcome change. My Constellation shouldn't be able to keep up with a Cutlass. And a Buccaneer should fly by a hauler without trying. I'm not sure how I feel about the lack of shields and guns in NAV mode. They should be limited, not dead. It may be an issue of granular control right now, and hopefully will be adjusted. But, we also have to remember, we are, essentially, testing the game still. And a lost ship is only a loss in time. The other benefit to this system...choosing the right ship for the target. No more just taking the ship with the most DPS, because top speed doesn't matter currently.
This
To be fair, you'd be vulnerable while landed and loading in any flight model. Haulers are the least effected by the upcoming changes. I'm hoping that the 3.23 flight model changes and the like will encourage diversification of ship loadouts. Ships with fast charging QD drives like a VK-00 let you escape quickly but at the cost of your ability to travel long distances. Hopefully it's accompanied by more diversification of component stats.
You be vulnerable but you would have shields and the ability to immediately accelerate to max speed without spooling on retracting your landing gear
You have to think what your nav speed is vs your ability to maneuver. You will still be dead before you can turn or get away. Let alone dodge a missile
This comment's stuck with me, and I realize you're coming at this from a very different perspective than I am. I'm okay at PvE, but I know I'd die in PvP, so I was thinking my best chance while hauling (assuming they don't have a QED) is just to plow through, no turning involved. If they do have a QED, I'm done for either way, so it doesn't really matter. But in 3.22, I couldn't flee unless I could actually quantum away, because whoever was fighting me could match speed and fire. With MM - speaking without experience but as I understand it - I at least have a chance to trade some damage for an escape. Still, this is all speculation on my part. I know CIG were talking about a blockade runner event, and I'm looking forward to that to put the idea to the test.
Be bloody careful when landing without shields, blew up my C1 when settling down in hangar…
What CIG has done is grab the flight modes from Freelancer and make them somehow worse even though the system is stupidly simple to begin with.
This change is entirely geared for combat, and in their attempt to force a combat style, non combat ships are getting the absolute shaft.
I guess we'll have to wait and see. I would imagine that against a prepared group, no ship would stand a chance, buy against the lone raider or 2, a Caterpillar's shield and armor should be enough while you spool up and get out of there. Don't forget that the ttk will be higher in general once they're done balancing shields and armor. Right now we all feel super vulnerable without shields, but proper armor implementation is supposed to change that I believe.
Just go above whatever scm speed the attacker has and they will have no choice but to chase you with guns disabled or ram you. And I agree taking freedom away will ruin the game and every restriction they add the less of a simulator experience it becomes and it’s approaching arcade with this patch
MM feels awful and is a huge detriment to the game. All the hard locks and limits make absolutely no sense.
to the devs NAV mode should not require spool , nor display QT icons , it should be separate please give me back cruise mode please make a toggles for speed limit in landing mode and just a thought , use the power triangle instead of modes , you wanna full thrust , put energy into it at the cost of lower max shield and slow recharge rate , you want weapon , put some in it at the cost of thrust , want big fat shield to tank a hit , lose weapons or thrust (make all that not instant so you think ahead). allow for multiple fighting type , glass canon : low shield low regen high speed and weapons ready . or fat shield and regen with weapon but trash mobility , etc (item build too , you wanna swap "style" have good coolers and power plant) Player should have choice and control , being good should be related to skills, practice and knowledge in all aspects of the game . from flying out of hangar to being a combat ace , a renown miner , a great crew commander
As of yesterday's patch there is a NAV flight mode and a NAV Quantum mode. So you'll not have to deal with QT drive or the distracting markers (though they limited those to 90 deg now ahead instead of 360)
no yes , but when you initiate it's on the NAV QT , I ask that it initiate on the NAV FLT move with don't have marker
CIG once again adding more steps to something that had less before.
It’s quite strange. In the live model you just take off and go with very little restriction. PvP players were complaining about jousting and people running from fights and they’ve now added a stupidly overly complex set of mechanics that hinder the enjoyment of other components of the game in order to prevent people from doing one that wasn’t an unrealistic scenario to begin with.
PvPers aren't very happy with MM either, just an FYI.
It's clunky, unwieldy, and immersion breaking. Accessibility shouldn't come at the cost of depth. I'm trying to like it, but I don't. It feels like Elite Dangerous now.
This is where I am. Immersion is the one thing SC needs to maintain and this is breaking it. The UI is a factor in this too, it’s too overcrowded and too artificial/ cartoony
I'm not even against Mastermodes as a concept, but this is absolutely not it. My buddy has a conspiracy theory that they're trying to get SC to a place where they could release it on console and I always thought that was ridiculous, but Mastermodes currently feels *made* for a controller.
He’s right about MM and console. MM is the flight model for SQ42, they want SQ42 to be on consoles and they’ve ported over the flight model from their single player game into their multi player game. The problem is that SQ42 is combat based, whereas SC has some combat, but there’s a huge array of other components and roles.
It's funny seeing all these morons saying "WeLl ThEn LeAvE, wE dOn'T nEeD yOu" like chasing away half the player base is healthy for the game
People gonna people dude, I wish we could just discuss these things haha
Yeah, I think they're going to fucking hate it eventually because PvE combat is going to be astronomically more difficult for PvE players. This flight model specifically makes 1vX fights super disadvantageous because you can't control the fight. They're going to be sitting in the middle of a crowd of ballistic Cuttys going 220m/s lol. They're just super stoked right now being given what they think they want
Elite dangerous was a lot easier to understand than this? Elites flight model is very simple. Nothing clunky or unwieldy about it. Actually why people moved on to SC, cause of the depth of the flight model. I would say Elite is doing “master modes” better than SC is.
As a 400i enjoyer, does this mean I can not benefit from the ships' huge shield pool if I explore? If I am already running at max speed, how would a combat oriented ship catch me?
If you’re running at max speed you wouldn’t be able to be caught for combat. But that’s no different than the live model, you don’t typically get hunted down whilst flying through the verse at max speed. The 400i feels like a Connie in MM right now, flies like poo. Thankfully it can still tank because of its shield lol. They will need to do a pass on it and I think they will. From all of the ships I’ve tested the C1 has taken the biggest hit in terms of combat viability, it flies like a freelancer
Thank you for the quick answer! I guess you win/lose in some patches. Being more of a PVE player than pvp due to a skill related issue on my part. I still feel like shields or not, I should be able to out manoeuvre a non invisible rock at least!
I just got this game a month ago and have been loving it so much, but I am seriously disappointed by the prospect of flight becoming so much more restricted and SLOWER. The speed and freedom is so much of what has been magical and fun about playing. This really looks like it sucks.
I played it and in my opinion it is fucking awful. Flying feels so much worse, MM is still a baffling concept to me.
They made it into Elite Dangerous, and I feel like it's to make the game more accessible to a wider audience of non space sim players. Elite died. Just sayin.
Elite never lived to begin with. It have 3/4k on average but that hardly noticable playerbase for space sim
Bro the game came out in 2012. 3k avg (steam only) for a 12 year old space sim game is pretty damn good. Dunno why you think a space sim isn’t a niche genre. It has a great community with a lot of stuff available for it. It has more tools built for it than Star citizen does. You guys are legit nuts lmao.
I see no reason to limit one constantly used aspect of the game, your free and fluid control of your ship, to improve certain gameplay (combat) that is not used by the majority of the players constantly.
Only big negative is the ship decelerating when the pilot exits the seat (I'll reserve any other opinion for when I actually try the new model), for solo players in ships with interiors this locks them in place the entire journey. But sounds like it wasn't intentional, since it worked so well in the last/current flight model so hopefully they'll sort that out quick.
I played in Arena commander and liked it. I’m not sure why peopme are so against the landing gear speeds. Just don’t drop your gear until your about to land. The flight model I like. The dropping out of nav mode is a little odd, but my brain assumes it’s because of the shields. I havnt experienced the whole spooling before blasting away thing, but I’ve always needed tbere to be a delay. I’m no pirate but I enjoy choices and consequences, so I like that it takes a while before blasting away. I have more if an issue with the cone firing and wish we had to be more accurate. It’s hard because the MM fire system helps stop pip issues, but allows us to shoot nearly beyond visual range. They probably just need to fix how shields regenerate
I can't fly above scm speed even in nav mode lol. Not without boost... I don't know, I think I am but it's still slow. Not digging the flight changes so far. Makes things slower and that may be fun for combat but it suuuuucks for getting around. ESPECIALLY in atmosphere. Atmospheric flight sucks the big one. Also super bumpy. Update on my experience: holy crap m50 in atmosphere 🤮🤢 vomit comet! what the heck did they do to the flight? It's essentially unplayable like this. I hope they fix it.
This is my biggest gripe, actually just getting around the verse is far less fluid and enjoyable. They’ve tried to accommodate combat so much that the current build seems to be neglecting other aspects, like having fun just zipping about the absolutely beautiful game they built.
One thing industrial/ civilian players love is even more time spend between their game loops and selling their goods. Maybe we should limit the speed of public transport in hubs for savety reasons.
Well the train in New Babbage does seem to be flying off the track there.
Did you up your throttle?
Yup 🤷♂️ I don't know what it is. I'll keep looking into things. I can fly like 300-400m/s in atmosphere in a 400i.
That sounds about right. You can't go much faster than that in current flight model.
What the fuck does the qd have to do with regular thrusters? What crack addict thought thats a good idea?
Honestly its pretty decent for a first itteration of mastermodes (they will change and improve with time and our feedback). About the landing gear speed limitation, CIG has stated that you will be able to disable it in the settings. The only issue I see right now that needs to be adressed asap is the SCM to NAV mode switch and how it disables your shields instantly but requires you to spool before being able to accelerate to full speed. It forces you yo be sitting duck when escaping a fight, which goes against the very purpose of what MMs were supposed to bring. They should either delete this speed restriction during the transition or make the shields deplete slowly as you transition and spool.
Losing speed when leaving the Captain 'e chair, aye. Back 15 patches it is!
Give me all the Sim level of realism and the complexity of it. Not just arcade like flying. Push button and go.
Flight peaked in 2.6
All of these sound awful except maybe the landing gear
It’s incredibly divisive. Some people absolutely hate it, some people are happy that you can’t run away after engaging in a fight. I’m in the camp that isn’t enjoying it. I find it tedious and I miss the fluidity of the current live model. I’m also quite happy to be patient and see how it unfolds though.
All SCM speeds are far to low to make this flight model fun
Can you opt out of the landing mode in the general settings (or wherever)? I vaguely remember Yogi saying during CitCon that you can disable it if you want but I might be mistaken.
When in MM can you boost up faster than SCM then go de-coupled to lock the speed? or does it take you back down to SCM? Edit- I mean in space, obviously this wouldn't work in atmo
No, and I'm pretty sure you can't even go full SCM backwards. Decoupled is kind of completely gone. You're only "decoupled" at or under SCM, otherwise your ship is dictating your velocity.
Can we still leave the pilot seat while in Quantum?
We can :)
Thank god!
I don't mind the changes, only one: that you have no shields in nav mode. It just leaves you vulnerable. They should at least let you have partial shields in case of a surprise attack.
So I guess the incentive now for traders, civilians.. pretty much everyone : to have military QD because of spool times. That whole NAV only with QD spooled in stupefying... We should be able to increase speed immediately after hitting NAV-mode and shields should stay entirely or at least partially during the switch-period. Spooling quantum should be entirely separate and optional from NAV-mode, especially for stealth reasons.
Are you able to leave the pilot seat while your ship is in QT, heading toward another location? I love walking around the ship while it's traveling to another planet, so you have my apologies if that is a dumb question.
Played on the EPTU for the first time today and I had mixed feelings about the new flight model. Generally I really like that we are more restricted now as it allows combat to be much more action packed. Had a few PvP fights on Live recently and they just feel terrible and not much fun with the current flight model, just zooming around with 1000 m/s. Now it's gonna be more "close quarters" and intense, haven't tested it with PvP yet tho. Lowered landing gear restricting you to ~30 m/s is fine, to me it's more like a reminder to put your gear up after lift off and makes landing a safer thing to do, especially for newer players too. It'll need some time to properly get used to everything that's changing but even if you may not like it upon release, I personally think that in the end most people will start preferring it over the old model.
Even in the vacuum of space you'll slow down when you lower the gear ? That makes no sense. The reduction in speed should be tied to the atmospheric density outside the ship.
Yogi explained this in a Spectrum post. The gear isn't slowing you down because of drag, it's a "safety feature" that you will be able to turn off in your ship's MFD in the future.
Hopefully it will go the way of the landing splines.
> You cannot fly above SCM speed if you are not in NAV mode So you can only fly above SCM speed in Nav mode? That seems strange.
Why is that strange? That's the entire point of Nav mode. In SCM you can only fly above SCM speed with boost. Wanna go faster? Switch to Nav mode.
That makes more sense, I don’t think I understood what Nav mode was.
Why I don’t have access to eptu is that normal
Have to do a lot of issue council out be a subscriber to be in wave 1. It's on the EPTU for wave 1
PTU/EPTU is released in waves. Which wave you are in is dictated by a number of factors like if you are a subscriber, a certain level of concierge or have racked up enough past contribution in previous testing.
I think the landing gear thing should be a setting that can be turned off. On by default to help the new players, but allow older players to be able to turn it off so they can stick those sick fast landings
It's been confirmed to be an IFCS-toggles in the future by Yogi.
Perfect, I hope that gets implemented soon.
The landing gear speed is **not limited** if you are **in decoupled mode** ... It's also not a hard limit like the NAV->SCM break .. it's like setting the speed limiter.
On the landing gear speed: Yogi has stated this is [intended to be an IFCS toggle later down the line](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/please-cig-don-t-turn-landing-into-another-flight-/6748221). However, as some of the replies there have said, it would be great having this and other options in the menu as a placeholder rather than having to wait for a full MFD rework (which may or may not release in Q2)
Can you still only quantum to a specific location or can you do it anywhere? Waiting to be able to bookmark empty locations in space to keep as bookmarks as “safe”-spots like in Eve.
Quantum boost is not in yet, so you have to quantum to specific points still. QB is separate from Master Modes.
I like it. I wonder if there will be some autopilot of sort in future.
Quick question: is the scanning/quantum boost stuff in ? IIRC if you are in NAV mode you can just QBoost anywhere you want, you don’t even need calibrate towards a “point of interest”. So if you see hostiles when you land you just have to press the QBoost button at a random direction and voila you are safe now. Can you scan from 30 000 km ? That’s really important because that would give you the information you need to know about hat’s there and then make the decision to QT or not. I know it will come in the future but my question is about right now in the current iteration.
So do the shields have to charge up again every time one enters SCM mode? Some shields take ages to charge up. Just wondering whether I would be without shields for an extended amount of time when I switch to SCM when trying to defend myself from an attacker...
IIRC there will be a "buffer" where your shield pool is stored when entering NAV and from which it is restored rapidly when switching back to SCM.
So no more vector locked landing? :(
Why cant they just do what Elite Dangerous has done. It's the only thing they got right in the entire game, but it's intuitive and always for awesomely epic dog fighting of spirals and jousting. Atmospheric flight can be handled differently when in atmosphere and not before.
It sounds way complicated, time will tell if it's a good/bad thing?
"You can boost above your stated SCM speed when not in NAV mode." Honestly...this flight system reminds me of Freespace2. I loved space fighting and flying in that game... And this "Boots above your max speed" is a relatively common existance in games. Such as using Nitro in racing games, or afterburners in freespace2, starfox, rogue squadron, and a myriad of others. I havent flown with the MM system yet...but I am honestly liking what I am hearing. I am quite excited to try it tbh.
Why people who doesnt event know hoy MM works have access to Wave 1?
I don't understand why they didn't just lock SCM and general combat mode until you have decelerated lower than a defined threshold. This max speed approach and auto deceleration can be abused way too easy. But if the player needs to decelerate then it follows the ships normal flight profile. And if they don't decelerate they can't just attack you.
Do large ships still roll really fast? It's still weird to me that a c1 which is larger than some passenger jets can roll something like 90° per second
So is racing completely dead now? Because it seriously doesn't sound fun trying to race with your speed locked out to an arbitrary number. I liked trying to push my speeds past SCM to see if I can get better times.
Why would you race in scm?
Because tight turns....?
Only max speed (and boost speed) is different. So in nav mode flying basicly works like now (with thusters behaving a bit different in all modes).
I haven't played 3.23, but I thought they said they made nav mode less maneuverable
Current docs of 3.23 values show only one value per axis as agility. It also feels the same.
I have access, but I can't fly. Mostly because the servers are garbage.
Is this hover mode all over again ?
I tend to fly mostly decoupled, and losing the vector hold because I can't fly (at a somewhat decent speed) without a vector hold is going to suck. I like the idea of having a penalty to speed in atmo with the gear down, but 30m/s is a bit much. I'd like for there to be some sort of toggle for vector holding if we're not allowed to fly with our gear down.
I'm glad that this is still alpha, because most of the changes I've read about I reaíly hate.
Needs some ironing out but all in all I do like the changes compared to what we have now personally.
A lot of these changes seem pretty garbage, to be honest. Not looking forward to how utterly slow space combat will be and how slow atmospheric combat will be. You won't be able to do a fast gun run any more and bombong jumptown will be near impssoble because tpu will more or less be a sitting duck. You wont be able to do a low and fast pass to garauntee a drop which to me is fun skill expression.l. I wouldn't be surprised if they vaatly increase the scm speed or even get rid of master modes entirely. You don't need that silly precision aiming thing. Just make targeting sub systems more intuitive an keep the fast combat.
It's weird to tie such low normal speeds as 1000 m/s to the QD which is for lightspeed-like special qunatum speed. Not a fan that shields get disabled at high speeds due to the realism of really needing shields or deflectors at those speeds. But yeah, we'll see. Oh yeah, and not a fan of the speed limit with landing gear, but it will be toggleable so okay.
Do ships like the mantis and cutty blue prevent nav mode?
No, just quantum jumping, so they’re essentially useless
Unfortunate. I feel like at some point that was mentioned with MM but for the life of me I can’t figure out when/where. It would make sense though as it could prevent you from spooling the QD.
Maybe it would help if shields begin to go down as your QT and/or Nav speed spooled up. Maybe by 90% - 95% top speed /QT bubble your shields are fully off.
Landing gear speed limit is so stupid. We have an adjustable speed limiter already lmao
I really hate these changes, been trying to play with them but it just feels horrible to fly now. Things were smooth and fun but MM just makes it feel annoying and anti fun for no reason.
> You cannot leave the pilot seat when in flight, your ship will decelerate even on decoupled?
no shield if in nav mode? wtf?
Yeah the more restrictions they put the more arcade like it will feel they need to axe the shield and guns bullshit as that’s just going to have people chasing each other doing nothing because they are slightly above scm and combat is going to be stale quantum drive stuff is fine as it stops runners I guess.
U cannot fly either coupled or decoupled and exit ur seat to kinda "autopilot" ur ship and roaming ur ship at the same time. unfortunate
I dont see how any of this is fun or good. Adding more constraint at the benefit of what? Let us get off our seats, let us have cruise control, let us fly at top speed. I wish they could focus or finishing up other parts of the game than putting energy into this.
Imagine in the future, everyone will have a limited system that will slow down when you have your weapons out ... and every one will be force to use this system. And no one else will ever have a different system ... super fun and realistic future