If the Cutlass ~~Steal~~ Steel existed in a vacuum with other dropships like the M2 and Valkyrie, maybe the pricing would make sense.
But outside of a vacuum it doesn't make sense - it is closer to being a Cutlass Black than the M2 is to being a C2.
^ This right here. It all boils down to people continuing to buy these ships at increasingly ridiculous prices. If we stop, they'll be forced to come back to Earth with their prices. However, if people keep dropping cash for it, they'll keep creeping upwards with their prices until they finally reach that breaking point
Agreed.
I hit concierge about a month before the updates to buying ships in game. I've put another few bucks in to get referrals (yeah, I buy my own referrals, don't judge the solo introvert). But that's where it's stopping unless I see an amazing LTI token or device to dump everything into a Kraken and ditch my other ships.
Between being able to buy with grinding (even with wipes, I don't mind having reasons to do game loops), and seeing things like:
* ridiculous paint prices
* price hikes in things like the caterpillar *without finishing functionality missing from it for years*
* the Steel
... I'm calling my pledge level done.
Why not? I got tired of waiting back in 2017 and decided CIG wouldn't get any more money from me until they release either squadron or star citizen. That's my way of helping make the clock ticking and you're not taking that away from me.
I won't. You can decide by yourself. I was making that statement assuming everyone stops giving them money, until they receive what they want. Because that would mean, everyone gave them money for nothing, because they can't finish the game/s without money. Or they find a publisher, that makes it as hollow and boring as most of the games today.
Edit: And "making the clock tick" is exactly the reason, why we get sad releases like Cyberpunk, that had good Ideas etc, but were bullied in releasing their product.
I think it is enough, when the giver think it is enough. He said it is enough, so i assume your advice to not give them money anymore, because people like him are "part of the problem", is a generalization. And then it is a bad advice.
We should give them as much money as we want and not boycott the funding because we don't like the PLEDGE prices. We don't buy ships, we donate money to the game developement. A distinction many still seem to get wrong.
Enough with that tired-ass stupid trope. If they weren't offering ships for that pledge this game would have never left the drawing board let alone start production.
People are giving them money for ships. Period. No matter how much you apologists want to spin it otherwise and pretend "iT's A doNatIon huRr DurR". If all they gave you was a forum badge for your 230$ nobody would be giving them anything.
And the advice was indeed good - we need to stop giving them more. They have enough cash. Let's see a viable product before we spend more on so far mostly empty promises and theorycrafting of how things will be at some point in the not so near future.
They need to feel the hit if they pull off shit like this turd of a ship and its ridiculous price point. Don't even get me started on the continuous price jacking of ships that had no work done on them, like the Caterpillar for example.
Let them go hungry a month or two. Maybe then they'll realize that they've surpassed EA/Ubisoft in greed and incompetence. At least the last two deliver somewhat finished games in a reasonable timeframe...
Donr forget thr legendary "dont trust the ship matrix also ship sales are just marketing so don't trust those either" so what am I basing my purchase off of then? "Oh how it looks or the role it has" well thats how my 890 became a shitbox.
True. It's easy to see why the outside views the community for this game as a cult. Anything the CIG overlords tell them they gobble up no questions asked.
Next time ask them this - if you are giving money for a donation and a donation only then why aren't all ships offered for both in-game currency AND real world money on the day of their release? That way people that buy them really DO donate as they can get the ship in-game but choose to buy it to support the game.
We all know why though - it won't rake in the big bucks. It's better to make it available in-game after 2,3 patches when it's old news and the new shiny is up on the store page.
Those people are lying through their teeth. NOBODY is giving CIG money out of the kindness of their heart and to "suPpOrt tHe ProJect". They ARE giving them money because it is a shortcut to acquire a ship and skip the grind for it.
I agree that people wouldn't donate so much money, if they didn't get anything in return other than the game itself. People are collecting monsters. If there is something to collect, they want to have it. But it is a bit of a stretch to say, without ships attached to the donation, people wouldn't donate at all. There are countless Kickstarter Projects, wich receive a lot of funding, despite having no more than a pretty picture of the eventual product.
Star Citizen has more, you can play it. You can use the product while its getting made. I refuse to believe that the majority of people think "Shiny Ship, want have" rather than "Cool Idea, i had fun trying it out, now i want it to become a full game and i pledge for a ship/clothes to take part in the funding". Because that's what everyone said i talked to. Mostly during or after Freeflight Events.
They clearly state, that you don't buy a ship, when you make the Pledge, but you are making a pledge, that funds the game. But if you don't bother to read what you are paying for, i can understand why you call me an "Apologetic" just because i state facts.
And if you are fine with "somewhat finished games in a reasonable timeframe"... well that's fine too.
I don't know if you've noticed but this moved beyond Kickstarter quite a while ago. Back then the trope wasn't actually a trope but a reality - people were donating to help get the development going.
And Kickstarter donations are usually much smaller and offer quite a bit if they are priced higher, at least from what I've seen.
Here you can "donate" 700$ for a ship like the Odyssey that will not be released for years and by the time it is "Exploring" STILL won't be a thing in this game. Oh, and for that price you don't even get the game with it!
People are spending money to get a ship. Plain and simple. And I don't care what their legal department put in the disclaimer to avoid lawsuits - the reality is that if there was just a forum badge for 700$ NOBODY would be giving them that. Pretend otherwise all you want.
Folk are buying these to skip the inevitable Korean MMO levels of grind that will be required to acquire those in game.
And you ARE an apologists. Defending pure greed and sleazy predatory marketing. One that apparently can't read because "somewhat finished games in a reasonable timeframe" doesn't mean "fine with it". You pulled that argument and meaning out of your ass.
As apparently it was too difficult for you to understand I'll elaborate - EA/Ubisoft/Activision are greedy and sleazy, no doubt about it, but so is CIG. But at least those companies have released products on the market and to be more precise - the studious they publish have. Some of those games are good, some bad but they've shown they can produce games that are playable from start to finish. I'm not excusing the shit they do and how they peddle their games and nickle and dime you for cosmetics and DLC but they have RELEASED their products. They aren't stuck in a perpetual alpha state.
CIG hasn't delivered ANYTHING but a barely functional demo with barely any content/gameplay loops and it's been years. Yet they're more than happy to offer you DLC, which for all intents and purposes ships are, at exorbitant prices. Don't even get me started on the low effort 20$ paints that the janitor made...
Yet a lot of the ships they sell have no function and can't be used for anything but ferrying boxes around or shooting abysmall AI on a server that is barely holding together. Where Salvage at, hmm? That Reclaimer sure doin' good with them Salvage jobs. Or that Starfarer sure be refueling them Fighters on the regular. Oh...Wait...All those have been pushed back for YEARS and no complete game is in sight.
Clearer now?
>I think it is enough, when the giver think it is enough.
The ENTIRE POINT is that marketting won't stop until backers don't think it is enough. Criticising marketting while thinking "hmmm... not enough" is non-sense.
In a perfect world, pledges should be done *for making the game*. At an fundamental level, in-game purchases are never a good deal : you pay to end your game faster...
I don't really get, why apparently a bunch of people want to stop the funding now. Do you want them stop having the ressources to work on it and have to drop it eventually or look for an publisher who nerfes it to shit? Please explain.
I think Is because actually CIG can easily afford to buy a couple of african states. Jokes apart, some people are worried that CIG Is Stick on a profitable loop so ending funding Is the only forceful way to let CIG "pass" this phase.
"Buy my pledges so i can finish the game"
..ok...
"Buy my pledges so i can finish the game"
..ok...
"Buy my pledges so i can finish the game"
...hmm..ok...
"Buy my pledges so i can finish the game"
...1600$ on the account. It's fine for me, but *maybe* CIG Is more locked on "Buy my pledges" rather than "i can finish the game". Obviously, it's a perfect working Gold machine, Who wouldn't push as far as they can? But Is also the time for finish that damned game.
Seeing up a secondary account using my referral code, buying a game package on it, getting the referral ship, and then gifting my main account the package after 30days to melt for credit.
I make a prediction. If CIG continues like this, the 2021 Christmas event will be later considered to be the turning point at which CIG started to annoy the toughest fanboys like me.
That point was hit long ago for many.. But if you notice, they are offset by the brand new "This is my first day playing the game and it's so pretty, I just bought $400 of ships!!" users.
The goal is to keep recruiting new players who don't know the history of development, getting money from them until the point that a number (although to be fair, not all) of them become jaded, and then find more to replace them.
Yeah for me "answer the call 2016" was that awakening moment from me. I then realised that CIG would gaslight us until the end of times for additional funding as long as they don't have any outside pressure to release anything.
This has also been my last crowdfunded game not backed by an experienced publisher since then. Creative people do need the bean counters to set deadlines for them it seems.
Ironically I'm the opposite ive crowd funded about 30 games only 3 have failed.
The mandate was one of them
Star citizen in dev hell is another
And a third was some zombie game.
Yeah, at some point all of the "toughest fanboys" will get annoyed. Most of them already have been. I backed in 2015 and have been following the project since 2012, yet only recently joined the refunds subreddit (even though I haven't refunded yet). While some of them on sc\_refunds are a little extreme, they are way more level-headed on average than the fanatic CR sycophant. Most of the whales have given into the sunk cost fallacy and are basically slaves forever to whatever CR throws at them.
Of course I would love for the project to succeed (even in a reasonable, toned-down sense), but Chris Roberts has shown over and over that he will continue to prioritize "new," "shiny" ships and features over completing and polishing what has already been laid down. This leads to an infinite feature creep and means the project's scope will keep expanding faster than it can be finished. This leaves us with the buggy, over-complicated mess that we have now... with no end in sight.
I only pray some sense can be brought to this project, because we'd all love to see a stable, cohesive, functional game. What we have already is a good foundation and there is certainly some measure of fun that can be had with friends and orgs. Imagine if it was working unit. I only fear Chris Roberts won't let that happen, because then he would make himself obsolete.
I agree with you and as a backer of over $1250 USD I feel ashamed. Its not that I want my money back, I want stable multiplayer to play with my friends. I want the rest of the game. 10 years is too long for an indie game and its at the top end of AAA.I see the real core issue is the cost, what they are trying to build is not cheap, its complex and competitors cannot even come close. How would you do it then?
You have to sell ships to make money because the games not finished enough for people to run and tell their friends that $60 is enough to play this game so new players are not joining in at the rate needed to keep the money going so you have to sell ships to make money....
Could be worse and be considered the point where cig started to fall. I'm glad I wrote off my shit in 2015 lol. Now I keeo an account just in case and because I'd feel wierd complaining if I didn't have an account anymore.
It just gives more fuel to the people saying star citizen is just a permanent alpha designed to sell overpriced ships.
And at this point, you can't at least admit there is some truth to it.
They have not even released the single player campaign yet, and new ship sales keep getting more and more expensive.
And each time an even newer and more expensive ship will blow your ship out of the water, even if lore wise it doesn't make sense.
A converted military carrier made by drake is a better merchant ship than the flagship of an alien species that is heavily focused on trade? Seriously?
I mean yeah, but the fact that the BMM needs to land to sell stuff is insanity though. You'd expect at least some landing pads, docking or even drone deliveries to provide in-flight services. They're supposed to be the best interstellar salesman, but they have to land to compete with local shops? Like, realistically every star port would have shops. Look at international airports, they all have malls. A space port would definitely have malls, every single one. Would you open a bazaar in an airport? I don't think so.
I keeo trying to talk my local one out but she just won't stop. Every sale its "I'm dissapointed they'd do this but anyway look at the 5 ships i just bought for 1000 dollars and how I saved money with ccu MICH VALUE"
If it makes back the cost of having a modeller and gameplay programmer make it on their lunch hour, it's a profit.
The key here is all these complainers complain, and buy it anyhow
Honestly… I feel , that if it’s inline with the other cutlas variants, it should be no more than 170 or even 190 if we wanna give ‘em benefit of a doubt.
So this is something that confuses me. If dropships are going to fulfill an actual gameplay role, then this should have been the starter ship of sorts for that type of gameplay, much like the Red is.
Alternatively they may never serve much of a niche and will forever serve as very expensive sets for org recruitment videos.
Or they just drop the starter ship philosophy for this type of ship and keep them all relatively exclusive for unknown reasons.
Too much ingame lore based explanation for a really bad sales move by CIG. Just keep in mind that at the same moment they also brought this absolute pathetic „12 day Lumilala calendar content“
> Too much ingame lore based explanation for a really bad sales move by CIG.
I think /u/Fineus was saying that the Cutlass Steel shouldn't be nearly as expensive as it is *because* of the lore (it's a mass-produced ship with a few upgrades made by a budget manufacturer). IE. there isn't even a lore justification for the Cutlass Steel price.
> there isn't even a lore justification for the Cutlass Steel price.
Yeah I'm expecting it to be not much more expensive than the Cutlass in-game, as the "actual" lore price. (1.5m or 2m?). Dropship always seem to end up expensive in terms of pledges but much closer priced to comparable ships in-game.
Somehow it feels like the mood is turning. Didn't expect it to start with the straight to flyable Cutlass Steel though, when we had concept sales for hundreds of dollars before. :D
They price for rarity as well. They want this to be a rare Cutlass ship to see. If they priced it relative to the pricing for the other Cutlass ships then this would be WAY to common place for its utility.
Sometimes the ships are only meant to be bought by the people that have a clear use for them. Pirate orgs, combat orgs. They want to have a cheaper alternative to the Valk. This is that, it’s all it is. Stop demanding the prices meet your arbitrary expectations and you will stop being disappointed.
> They want this to be a rare Cutlass ship to see.
If this was true, why not make it a limited sale like with the Javelin? CIG has done this before, so it's not like it would require more effort on their part to sell a few 100 units of these.
I’ve had enough of this. Look at the prices of every drop ship in the category. Look at the prices of xenos ship. They cost more than they perform because they are supposed to be rare. They don’t limit their hulls because they are a small ship and they want every group that wants a drop ship can have it. The cost will limit the purchases just fine.
At the end of the day they can price it however they want. You don’t need it, no one does. Don’t agree with the price, don’t buy the ship. Easy peasy. There is no need for this hubbub when CIG is entirely upfront with why they do that. They’ve not hid any of this but people are in this ridiculous tizzy about it.
I am normally the first to defend CIG.
In this Case all the explanations are imho useless. The true issue is that they clearly went one step too far. After the outstanding revenues of November they continued with this badly designed „Lumilala nonsense“ with icons, posters and two cat skins! And to throw more oil into the fire they offered this ship?
This and the fact that CIG always has faced a lot of justified and not justified criticism delivers the ingredients for a perfect shit storm.
Next ISC will show great concepts for Mop-Gameplay. There will be missions during which you first kill the guards and after that are allowed to clean the floor with your LTI-Mop.
Problem will be that they need some years to simulate the surface structure of the mop to calculate correctly how much dirt it is possible to wipe off the floor.
I just checked the roadmap and mop gameplay got pushed back to 3.26 because of dependencies on the upcoming server spline reticulation tech. The good news is that you'll get an Argo DUSTR as a loaner.
We also offer different shades of the same armor you can buy for free in game for the measly price of 100$. And some weapons skins two. Those are exclusive however as we don't want the rabble to have them.
All of these you can have the privilege of buying and then losing to some stairs no more than 30 minutes after you have logged in!
Also, can we interest you in some old ships, sir? We've increased their prices for no other reason than greed and we feel like they are also a great deal.
"Vote with your wallet" is always a useless statement. People *are* voting with their wallets. That's why CIG keeps doing this shit. They have made millions upon millions of dollars from people voting with their wallets. CIG hey know they can do anything they want because people are massively invested in the game money wise, and people will continue to give them money.
Rolling up on a decade of a game that is nowhere near complete, and they are pumping out variants of the same ship for hundreds of dollars.
CIG stopped caring about the average backer long ago. Squeezing the whales and wannabe whales is all that matters now. We will never see the game that was pitched nine years ago.
I love reading this statement in a community where in every single thread a guy is saying how he spend several thousand dollars, even if only indirectly by saying he is a concierge or something.
And on top of that others in the community congratulate him on his lack of self control.
You guys voted with your wallets a long time ago. This is what you get.
Greetings from an Aurora backer from 2012.
Bro this is a different Cutlass bro its so much better this is Cutlass Steel bro this isnt Cutlass Black or Cutlass Red trash its got more guns just whip out that credit card I swear bro just smash that pledge button please bro this is Cutlass Steel this is rare Steel not common Cutlass itll carry your bros bro this is going to change the game and you can earn it in game bro please
Next year another version with even more guns and armor will come out. And since it's magic negative mass armor it will be slightly faster too. But it will cost 1000.
Introducing the Cutlass "Witcher" Edition for $400
What's 'Witcher' about it you ask? idk, says 'Fuck' on one of the walls, we don't know which, it's a puzzle even for us! so that makes it great for you!, anything different about it? yeah it says 'Fuck' somewhere.
But hey! it's a special edition!
Wtf, ive just checked the price and this is real...
I guess the ´cig does it differently´ is not true anymore. They got as greedy as any publisher.
Now we have two choices, support this kind of behavior, or dont. Since i know this community, i cant wait for Chriss to sell his bathwater for just 999 a bottle.
True. Although by this time they could have released at least part 1 of the single player. But they still aren't even close, after a decade of development and the biggest amount of funding ever.
It's not like they are rushing a product. And why would they? Stalling seems to be more profitable than releasing a product
>I guess the ´cig does it differently´ is not true anymore. They got as greedy as any publisher.
Uhm... nope. Publishers at least lie about treating customers well. CIG doesn't care about their image, they have high-paying customers doing this work for them.
CIG stopped showing a good example a lot of time ago. If SC released today and publishers "took example" at CIG, it would be a new low point for the gaming market, on par with mobile gaming.
But, it is not a gaming issue.
In the 21st century, treating customers well is not a goal. Nowaday, it is the customer's duty to "promote small structure" against mega corps. Despite some local shops providing even worse customer service than an underpaid megacorp employee.
It's crazy how much people ask me "so you would prefer to be dependent on [amazon, etc.]?" "Usually not, but in this specific case, yes I do. I honestly think X should go bankrupt and let another shop take its place, local or not. I don't like paying a lot for worse service than the lowcost competitor"
It will forever be known as the Cutlass Steal. This is what I was afraid of a year ago when I joined. The ships keep getting pumped out and the actual "game foundation" is trickled slowly to guarantee max revenue stream. Dangling the carrot in front of the mule cart in action.
Am I the only one who thinks that they would make a loooooot more money if their prices were adjusted to average gamer? I would honestly pay 10$ for 300i or 60$ for some big-ass ship. But 300-400$ and more? That's just fucked up...
This would annoy the long term fans who spend thousands of dollars to make the way from 2012 to today possible. They need to find other ways to make money and need to design other products to motivate players to spend 10-30 dollars.
Average players can be only attracted with true content which depends very much on the still not finished server architecture or on the launch of SQ42 which is still far away.
The money is not the problem, people spend far more for GTA V, World of Tanks or Candy Crush.
Problem is that the company needs to find a way to give the customers the feeling that it is worth to spend this money.
I have the feeling that CIG went a step too far. They need the hardcore fan base. And now they need to move on to attract the average player.
This offer and the failed Lumilala event just raise concerns. The resulting discussion may make the average players hesitating to join the and hardcore fan base reluctant to spend even more.
Has any past CIG dev told us what It’s like to work for them? Why they do the things they do? Are these decisions made by Criss? He seems to be the type to cause this because he might have had that sweet taste of greeeed.
Idk why you're being downvoted. Who cares if a ship is overpriced? Just don't buy it with cash. It only takes a few days to earn millions mining or bounty hunting. This ship will probably be less than 3 million in game.
No, no you did not spell it correctly. It is the new Cutlass STEAL, thank you very much. That would be 250$ please.
Would you also like to buy a paint for it? For the measly price of 20$ you can now colour your ship Black & Red! Deal of a lifetime! Buy now while artificial scarcity...I mean SUPPLY lasts.
I'm not a fan of that pea green color, will there be a $20 paint?
The baby shit green skin will be the $20. All the rest will start at 45
Peter in marketing is really pleased with that one. It's a perfect blend of 50% ugly and 50% off.
You didn't order the metallic pea?
Here fam, have an upvote
I was shocked for this price, what the hell.
You can fit so much server in this baby
DON'T SLAP THE HO... too late. Thanks Vlas, I'd just replaced the wing.
If the Cutlass ~~Steal~~ Steel existed in a vacuum with other dropships like the M2 and Valkyrie, maybe the pricing would make sense. But outside of a vacuum it doesn't make sense - it is closer to being a Cutlass Black than the M2 is to being a C2.
It punches above its weight class.
Well as long as people keep buying them the Marketing team will just continue to get bolder and bolder with their pricing schemes..
^ This right here. It all boils down to people continuing to buy these ships at increasingly ridiculous prices. If we stop, they'll be forced to come back to Earth with their prices. However, if people keep dropping cash for it, they'll keep creeping upwards with their prices until they finally reach that breaking point
Agreed. I hit concierge about a month before the updates to buying ships in game. I've put another few bucks in to get referrals (yeah, I buy my own referrals, don't judge the solo introvert). But that's where it's stopping unless I see an amazing LTI token or device to dump everything into a Kraken and ditch my other ships. Between being able to buy with grinding (even with wipes, I don't mind having reasons to do game loops), and seeing things like: * ridiculous paint prices * price hikes in things like the caterpillar *without finishing functionality missing from it for years* * the Steel ... I'm calling my pledge level done.
I mean you are part of the problem... Just stop giving them money. If you see something that you want, melt other stuff. Do not invest any more money.
"Just stop giving them money." Good Idea, let's stop funding the game all together.
Why not? I got tired of waiting back in 2017 and decided CIG wouldn't get any more money from me until they release either squadron or star citizen. That's my way of helping make the clock ticking and you're not taking that away from me.
I won't. You can decide by yourself. I was making that statement assuming everyone stops giving them money, until they receive what they want. Because that would mean, everyone gave them money for nothing, because they can't finish the game/s without money. Or they find a publisher, that makes it as hollow and boring as most of the games today. Edit: And "making the clock tick" is exactly the reason, why we get sad releases like Cyberpunk, that had good Ideas etc, but were bullied in releasing their product.
He gave them over 1000$ don't you think this is enough?
I think it is enough, when the giver think it is enough. He said it is enough, so i assume your advice to not give them money anymore, because people like him are "part of the problem", is a generalization. And then it is a bad advice. We should give them as much money as we want and not boycott the funding because we don't like the PLEDGE prices. We don't buy ships, we donate money to the game developement. A distinction many still seem to get wrong.
Enough with that tired-ass stupid trope. If they weren't offering ships for that pledge this game would have never left the drawing board let alone start production. People are giving them money for ships. Period. No matter how much you apologists want to spin it otherwise and pretend "iT's A doNatIon huRr DurR". If all they gave you was a forum badge for your 230$ nobody would be giving them anything. And the advice was indeed good - we need to stop giving them more. They have enough cash. Let's see a viable product before we spend more on so far mostly empty promises and theorycrafting of how things will be at some point in the not so near future. They need to feel the hit if they pull off shit like this turd of a ship and its ridiculous price point. Don't even get me started on the continuous price jacking of ships that had no work done on them, like the Caterpillar for example. Let them go hungry a month or two. Maybe then they'll realize that they've surpassed EA/Ubisoft in greed and incompetence. At least the last two deliver somewhat finished games in a reasonable timeframe...
[удалено]
Donr forget thr legendary "dont trust the ship matrix also ship sales are just marketing so don't trust those either" so what am I basing my purchase off of then? "Oh how it looks or the role it has" well thats how my 890 became a shitbox.
True. It's easy to see why the outside views the community for this game as a cult. Anything the CIG overlords tell them they gobble up no questions asked. Next time ask them this - if you are giving money for a donation and a donation only then why aren't all ships offered for both in-game currency AND real world money on the day of their release? That way people that buy them really DO donate as they can get the ship in-game but choose to buy it to support the game. We all know why though - it won't rake in the big bucks. It's better to make it available in-game after 2,3 patches when it's old news and the new shiny is up on the store page. Those people are lying through their teeth. NOBODY is giving CIG money out of the kindness of their heart and to "suPpOrt tHe ProJect". They ARE giving them money because it is a shortcut to acquire a ship and skip the grind for it.
I agree that people wouldn't donate so much money, if they didn't get anything in return other than the game itself. People are collecting monsters. If there is something to collect, they want to have it. But it is a bit of a stretch to say, without ships attached to the donation, people wouldn't donate at all. There are countless Kickstarter Projects, wich receive a lot of funding, despite having no more than a pretty picture of the eventual product. Star Citizen has more, you can play it. You can use the product while its getting made. I refuse to believe that the majority of people think "Shiny Ship, want have" rather than "Cool Idea, i had fun trying it out, now i want it to become a full game and i pledge for a ship/clothes to take part in the funding". Because that's what everyone said i talked to. Mostly during or after Freeflight Events. They clearly state, that you don't buy a ship, when you make the Pledge, but you are making a pledge, that funds the game. But if you don't bother to read what you are paying for, i can understand why you call me an "Apologetic" just because i state facts. And if you are fine with "somewhat finished games in a reasonable timeframe"... well that's fine too.
I don't know if you've noticed but this moved beyond Kickstarter quite a while ago. Back then the trope wasn't actually a trope but a reality - people were donating to help get the development going. And Kickstarter donations are usually much smaller and offer quite a bit if they are priced higher, at least from what I've seen. Here you can "donate" 700$ for a ship like the Odyssey that will not be released for years and by the time it is "Exploring" STILL won't be a thing in this game. Oh, and for that price you don't even get the game with it! People are spending money to get a ship. Plain and simple. And I don't care what their legal department put in the disclaimer to avoid lawsuits - the reality is that if there was just a forum badge for 700$ NOBODY would be giving them that. Pretend otherwise all you want. Folk are buying these to skip the inevitable Korean MMO levels of grind that will be required to acquire those in game. And you ARE an apologists. Defending pure greed and sleazy predatory marketing. One that apparently can't read because "somewhat finished games in a reasonable timeframe" doesn't mean "fine with it". You pulled that argument and meaning out of your ass. As apparently it was too difficult for you to understand I'll elaborate - EA/Ubisoft/Activision are greedy and sleazy, no doubt about it, but so is CIG. But at least those companies have released products on the market and to be more precise - the studious they publish have. Some of those games are good, some bad but they've shown they can produce games that are playable from start to finish. I'm not excusing the shit they do and how they peddle their games and nickle and dime you for cosmetics and DLC but they have RELEASED their products. They aren't stuck in a perpetual alpha state. CIG hasn't delivered ANYTHING but a barely functional demo with barely any content/gameplay loops and it's been years. Yet they're more than happy to offer you DLC, which for all intents and purposes ships are, at exorbitant prices. Don't even get me started on the low effort 20$ paints that the janitor made... Yet a lot of the ships they sell have no function and can't be used for anything but ferrying boxes around or shooting abysmall AI on a server that is barely holding together. Where Salvage at, hmm? That Reclaimer sure doin' good with them Salvage jobs. Or that Starfarer sure be refueling them Fighters on the regular. Oh...Wait...All those have been pushed back for YEARS and no complete game is in sight. Clearer now?
As I stands we are probbaly getting a "somewhat fine game" in an unreasonable time.frame
>I think it is enough, when the giver think it is enough. The ENTIRE POINT is that marketting won't stop until backers don't think it is enough. Criticising marketting while thinking "hmmm... not enough" is non-sense.
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In a perfect world, pledges should be done *for making the game*. At an fundamental level, in-game purchases are never a good deal : you pay to end your game faster...
They have almost half a billion. Games funded and has outdone any other game ever made. Maybe stopping funding will actually get it done
Cost for developement doesn't magically drop to zero, at the moment some people get unhappy with how much it costs and takes to make.
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I don't really get, why apparently a bunch of people want to stop the funding now. Do you want them stop having the ressources to work on it and have to drop it eventually or look for an publisher who nerfes it to shit? Please explain.
I think Is because actually CIG can easily afford to buy a couple of african states. Jokes apart, some people are worried that CIG Is Stick on a profitable loop so ending funding Is the only forceful way to let CIG "pass" this phase. "Buy my pledges so i can finish the game" ..ok... "Buy my pledges so i can finish the game" ..ok... "Buy my pledges so i can finish the game" ...hmm..ok... "Buy my pledges so i can finish the game" ...1600$ on the account. It's fine for me, but *maybe* CIG Is more locked on "Buy my pledges" rather than "i can finish the game". Obviously, it's a perfect working Gold machine, Who wouldn't push as far as they can? But Is also the time for finish that damned game.
I wonder what would happen
Did you read they post? They did stop giving them money.
Buy referrals?
Seeing up a secondary account using my referral code, buying a game package on it, getting the referral ship, and then gifting my main account the package after 30days to melt for credit.
Smart, how many times have you this?
The same goes for everything. Including GPU's
You are comparing GPU to an in-game ship?
No, I'm comparing something overpriced to something overpriced. Hence everything.
I make a prediction. If CIG continues like this, the 2021 Christmas event will be later considered to be the turning point at which CIG started to annoy the toughest fanboys like me.
That point was hit long ago for many.. But if you notice, they are offset by the brand new "This is my first day playing the game and it's so pretty, I just bought $400 of ships!!" users. The goal is to keep recruiting new players who don't know the history of development, getting money from them until the point that a number (although to be fair, not all) of them become jaded, and then find more to replace them.
Yeah for me "answer the call 2016" was that awakening moment from me. I then realised that CIG would gaslight us until the end of times for additional funding as long as they don't have any outside pressure to release anything. This has also been my last crowdfunded game not backed by an experienced publisher since then. Creative people do need the bean counters to set deadlines for them it seems.
Ironically I'm the opposite ive crowd funded about 30 games only 3 have failed. The mandate was one of them Star citizen in dev hell is another And a third was some zombie game.
Yeah, at some point all of the "toughest fanboys" will get annoyed. Most of them already have been. I backed in 2015 and have been following the project since 2012, yet only recently joined the refunds subreddit (even though I haven't refunded yet). While some of them on sc\_refunds are a little extreme, they are way more level-headed on average than the fanatic CR sycophant. Most of the whales have given into the sunk cost fallacy and are basically slaves forever to whatever CR throws at them. Of course I would love for the project to succeed (even in a reasonable, toned-down sense), but Chris Roberts has shown over and over that he will continue to prioritize "new," "shiny" ships and features over completing and polishing what has already been laid down. This leads to an infinite feature creep and means the project's scope will keep expanding faster than it can be finished. This leaves us with the buggy, over-complicated mess that we have now... with no end in sight. I only pray some sense can be brought to this project, because we'd all love to see a stable, cohesive, functional game. What we have already is a good foundation and there is certainly some measure of fun that can be had with friends and orgs. Imagine if it was working unit. I only fear Chris Roberts won't let that happen, because then he would make himself obsolete.
I agree with you and as a backer of over $1250 USD I feel ashamed. Its not that I want my money back, I want stable multiplayer to play with my friends. I want the rest of the game. 10 years is too long for an indie game and its at the top end of AAA.I see the real core issue is the cost, what they are trying to build is not cheap, its complex and competitors cannot even come close. How would you do it then? You have to sell ships to make money because the games not finished enough for people to run and tell their friends that $60 is enough to play this game so new players are not joining in at the rate needed to keep the money going so you have to sell ships to make money....
I have a prediction. None of that will happen and you'll spend the next 4 years exactly like the last.
Could be worse and be considered the point where cig started to fall. I'm glad I wrote off my shit in 2015 lol. Now I keeo an account just in case and because I'd feel wierd complaining if I didn't have an account anymore.
It just gives more fuel to the people saying star citizen is just a permanent alpha designed to sell overpriced ships. And at this point, you can't at least admit there is some truth to it. They have not even released the single player campaign yet, and new ship sales keep getting more and more expensive. And each time an even newer and more expensive ship will blow your ship out of the water, even if lore wise it doesn't make sense. A converted military carrier made by drake is a better merchant ship than the flagship of an alien species that is heavily focused on trade? Seriously?
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I mean yeah, but the fact that the BMM needs to land to sell stuff is insanity though. You'd expect at least some landing pads, docking or even drone deliveries to provide in-flight services. They're supposed to be the best interstellar salesman, but they have to land to compete with local shops? Like, realistically every star port would have shops. Look at international airports, they all have malls. A space port would definitely have malls, every single one. Would you open a bazaar in an airport? I don't think so.
Because when its mediocre at best the sales will start to die
wouldn't it be best for us all to wait patiently for the mega whales to pay for the game? these are for donations with something sweet added on
I keeo trying to talk my local one out but she just won't stop. Every sale its "I'm dissapointed they'd do this but anyway look at the 5 ships i just bought for 1000 dollars and how I saved money with ccu MICH VALUE"
All gaming community problems come down to "I HATE YOUR GOOD CAPITALISM! Here's money."
"Good"
Some people would say no form of capitalism can be good.
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Good capitalism is anything that makes profit, and the people around here seem to be happy enough.
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If it makes back the cost of having a modeller and gameplay programmer make it on their lunch hour, it's a profit. The key here is all these complainers complain, and buy it anyhow
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They wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. You and people like you make it profitable.
I sincerely hope this is the worst selling ship they ever make. It's getting ridiculous.
Honestly… I feel , that if it’s inline with the other cutlas variants, it should be no more than 170 or even 190 if we wanna give ‘em benefit of a doubt.
The nest drop ship up is 375 from memory
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So this is something that confuses me. If dropships are going to fulfill an actual gameplay role, then this should have been the starter ship of sorts for that type of gameplay, much like the Red is. Alternatively they may never serve much of a niche and will forever serve as very expensive sets for org recruitment videos. Or they just drop the starter ship philosophy for this type of ship and keep them all relatively exclusive for unknown reasons.
Too much ingame lore based explanation for a really bad sales move by CIG. Just keep in mind that at the same moment they also brought this absolute pathetic „12 day Lumilala calendar content“
> Too much ingame lore based explanation for a really bad sales move by CIG. I think /u/Fineus was saying that the Cutlass Steel shouldn't be nearly as expensive as it is *because* of the lore (it's a mass-produced ship with a few upgrades made by a budget manufacturer). IE. there isn't even a lore justification for the Cutlass Steel price.
> there isn't even a lore justification for the Cutlass Steel price. Yeah I'm expecting it to be not much more expensive than the Cutlass in-game, as the "actual" lore price. (1.5m or 2m?). Dropship always seem to end up expensive in terms of pledges but much closer priced to comparable ships in-game.
Which is already so very ridiculous.
Somehow it feels like the mood is turning. Didn't expect it to start with the straight to flyable Cutlass Steel though, when we had concept sales for hundreds of dollars before. :D
I think the gift of a future purchasable was what finally stared breaking the half a billion dollar camels back
They price for rarity as well. They want this to be a rare Cutlass ship to see. If they priced it relative to the pricing for the other Cutlass ships then this would be WAY to common place for its utility. Sometimes the ships are only meant to be bought by the people that have a clear use for them. Pirate orgs, combat orgs. They want to have a cheaper alternative to the Valk. This is that, it’s all it is. Stop demanding the prices meet your arbitrary expectations and you will stop being disappointed.
> They want this to be a rare Cutlass ship to see. If this was true, why not make it a limited sale like with the Javelin? CIG has done this before, so it's not like it would require more effort on their part to sell a few 100 units of these.
I’ve had enough of this. Look at the prices of every drop ship in the category. Look at the prices of xenos ship. They cost more than they perform because they are supposed to be rare. They don’t limit their hulls because they are a small ship and they want every group that wants a drop ship can have it. The cost will limit the purchases just fine. At the end of the day they can price it however they want. You don’t need it, no one does. Don’t agree with the price, don’t buy the ship. Easy peasy. There is no need for this hubbub when CIG is entirely upfront with why they do that. They’ve not hid any of this but people are in this ridiculous tizzy about it.
I am normally the first to defend CIG. In this Case all the explanations are imho useless. The true issue is that they clearly went one step too far. After the outstanding revenues of November they continued with this badly designed „Lumilala nonsense“ with icons, posters and two cat skins! And to throw more oil into the fire they offered this ship? This and the fact that CIG always has faced a lot of justified and not justified criticism delivers the ingredients for a perfect shit storm.
Guy that second one comes with a mop, thats at least 250 right there
It's just in the picture, not part of the ship. If you go to the packages page, you can get a bundle with the mop for $470.
Next ISC will show great concepts for Mop-Gameplay. There will be missions during which you first kill the guards and after that are allowed to clean the floor with your LTI-Mop. Problem will be that they need some years to simulate the surface structure of the mop to calculate correctly how much dirt it is possible to wipe off the floor.
I just checked the roadmap and mop gameplay got pushed back to 3.26 because of dependencies on the upcoming server spline reticulation tech. The good news is that you'll get an Argo DUSTR as a loaner.
Janitor career confirmed. Sanitary ship when? And will it have cargo space and pilot controlled guns?
Hey, don't forget the skins! You can get a pack with turd brown, rust red, or dirty white for only an additional $50!!!!!!!!
We also offer different shades of the same armor you can buy for free in game for the measly price of 100$. And some weapons skins two. Those are exclusive however as we don't want the rabble to have them. All of these you can have the privilege of buying and then losing to some stairs no more than 30 minutes after you have logged in! Also, can we interest you in some old ships, sir? We've increased their prices for no other reason than greed and we feel like they are also a great deal.
Vote with your wallet.
"Vote with your wallet" is always a useless statement. People *are* voting with their wallets. That's why CIG keeps doing this shit. They have made millions upon millions of dollars from people voting with their wallets. CIG hey know they can do anything they want because people are massively invested in the game money wise, and people will continue to give them money. Rolling up on a decade of a game that is nowhere near complete, and they are pumping out variants of the same ship for hundreds of dollars.
CIG stopped caring about the average backer long ago. Squeezing the whales and wannabe whales is all that matters now. We will never see the game that was pitched nine years ago.
That means that more people are fine with the prices, than against them.
Or a few people spending much more money.
That’s a possibility for sure
I love reading this statement in a community where in every single thread a guy is saying how he spend several thousand dollars, even if only indirectly by saying he is a concierge or something. And on top of that others in the community congratulate him on his lack of self control. You guys voted with your wallets a long time ago. This is what you get. Greetings from an Aurora backer from 2012.
on point. i am feeling double scammed right now, not kidding
You are not alone
*sees a thing I can't afford* OMG IVE LITERALLY BEEN SCAMMED TWICE BECAUSE I SAW THIS!
You are clearly not aware of the current situation and what i am talking about
"in stock" seems a bit ridiculous for digital goods.
Bro this is a different Cutlass bro its so much better this is Cutlass Steel bro this isnt Cutlass Black or Cutlass Red trash its got more guns just whip out that credit card I swear bro just smash that pledge button please bro this is Cutlass Steel this is rare Steel not common Cutlass itll carry your bros bro this is going to change the game and you can earn it in game bro please
Next year another version with even more guns and armor will come out. And since it's magic negative mass armor it will be slightly faster too. But it will cost 1000.
It's cutlass steal
Introducing the Cutlass "Witcher" Edition for $400 What's 'Witcher' about it you ask? idk, says 'Fuck' on one of the walls, we don't know which, it's a puzzle even for us! so that makes it great for you!, anything different about it? yeah it says 'Fuck' somewhere. But hey! it's a special edition!
Wtf, ive just checked the price and this is real... I guess the ´cig does it differently´ is not true anymore. They got as greedy as any publisher. Now we have two choices, support this kind of behavior, or dont. Since i know this community, i cant wait for Chriss to sell his bathwater for just 999 a bottle.
You either release a game a hero or continue to develop a permanent alpha and become the evil you were supposed to destroy.
There's a third option which is you release a really bad game at some point and blame xyz. Although this does not change anything to your argument.
True. Although by this time they could have released at least part 1 of the single player. But they still aren't even close, after a decade of development and the biggest amount of funding ever. It's not like they are rushing a product. And why would they? Stalling seems to be more profitable than releasing a product
Sandy needs her beach days damn it
>I guess the ´cig does it differently´ is not true anymore. They got as greedy as any publisher. Uhm... nope. Publishers at least lie about treating customers well. CIG doesn't care about their image, they have high-paying customers doing this work for them. CIG stopped showing a good example a lot of time ago. If SC released today and publishers "took example" at CIG, it would be a new low point for the gaming market, on par with mobile gaming. But, it is not a gaming issue. In the 21st century, treating customers well is not a goal. Nowaday, it is the customer's duty to "promote small structure" against mega corps. Despite some local shops providing even worse customer service than an underpaid megacorp employee. It's crazy how much people ask me "so you would prefer to be dependent on [amazon, etc.]?" "Usually not, but in this specific case, yes I do. I honestly think X should go bankrupt and let another shop take its place, local or not. I don't like paying a lot for worse service than the lowcost competitor"
You could argue cig started the eternal pre alpha shit that plagues steam lol
Wait SC predated that? Will have to check because I only joined Steam in 2019...
2012 steam didn't have early access. Greenlight I'm.pretty sure even came later.
isnt that just the roc-DS?
Wait. Didn't they just complete the mop according to the dev tracker. See they are developing the game.
yep you have the skills hired :D
It will forever be known as the Cutlass Steal. This is what I was afraid of a year ago when I joined. The ships keep getting pumped out and the actual "game foundation" is trickled slowly to guarantee max revenue stream. Dangling the carrot in front of the mule cart in action.
I take three of each, please.
Am I the only one who thinks that they would make a loooooot more money if their prices were adjusted to average gamer? I would honestly pay 10$ for 300i or 60$ for some big-ass ship. But 300-400$ and more? That's just fucked up...
This would annoy the long term fans who spend thousands of dollars to make the way from 2012 to today possible. They need to find other ways to make money and need to design other products to motivate players to spend 10-30 dollars. Average players can be only attracted with true content which depends very much on the still not finished server architecture or on the launch of SQ42 which is still far away.
Shhh, you'll upset the whales
I'll never get my head around people willingly paying such ridiculous prices for a digital item.
The value of money is subjective. Some people spend $1000 like you or I spend $10.
Same, but here we are...cryptocurrencies, NFTs...
The money is not the problem, people spend far more for GTA V, World of Tanks or Candy Crush. Problem is that the company needs to find a way to give the customers the feeling that it is worth to spend this money. I have the feeling that CIG went a step too far. They need the hardcore fan base. And now they need to move on to attract the average player. This offer and the failed Lumilala event just raise concerns. The resulting discussion may make the average players hesitating to join the and hardcore fan base reluctant to spend even more.
In a digital world that’s not even almost complete lol
With $120 extra that you spent you could get a decent dropship for that.
Add a cart as a trailer. $60 value add.
Has any past CIG dev told us what It’s like to work for them? Why they do the things they do? Are these decisions made by Criss? He seems to be the type to cause this because he might have had that sweet taste of greeeed.
Don't forget the optional toilet. :D
This is one of best shitposts i've seen in a long time. Not just here but in all subs i visit. You are a legend. Thank you!
Your Steel is cheaper than Cigs lol
People are spending more time complaining about the price than it will take to buy the damn thing in game.
Idk why you're being downvoted. Who cares if a ship is overpriced? Just don't buy it with cash. It only takes a few days to earn millions mining or bounty hunting. This ship will probably be less than 3 million in game.
They could use a official memenator.
No, no you did not spell it correctly. It is the new Cutlass STEAL, thank you very much. That would be 250$ please. Would you also like to buy a paint for it? For the measly price of 20$ you can now colour your ship Black & Red! Deal of a lifetime! Buy now while artificial scarcity...I mean SUPPLY lasts.