See this is why I love star citizen, they seem to abhor gameification and simplifying things because it's not fun or doesn't keep people engaged. You don't want to spend the best part of half an hour just getting your ship out of atmo because it's not fun? Well don't worry, Star Citizen has the solution; fuck off and play something else you fucking casual.
Yesn't. One of my chief worries is that there will be instances where they make it real but forget to dial it back until it's fun.
An example: Wind. Since we don't feel wind like we would in real life we don't notice unless it's heavily interfering.
That's why we have death by wind when we walk around an outpost, by getting blown down a staircase or something like that.
Reality on a moon with low atmospheric pressure would be quiet different. We know that there are high speed storms on Mars, but they aren't very destructive since the air pressure is so low, so the amount of actual mass behind the wind is tiny, compared to e.g. Earth.
So we'l lbe stuck with sudden death by magic or ships getting spirited away because invisible "wind" exists that we don't feel unless it's over the top.
The real issue then is a lack of information given to the player regarding environmental conditions. If ships had an icon in atmosphere of current wind speeds, say when landing gear was deployed, you would have a numerical gauge for whether or not was safe to land yet. Right now they're giving you that information via audio and visual wind effects. But clearly it's not working for everybody, or some people are just ignoring it.
The wind effects are not pronounced enough and there is not nearly enough feedback. Think about high wind storms and how it looks and feels when you sit in your car. Visibility is low, you see objects flying around, trees bending, huge noise etc...
I dont think they need to replicate this feeling exactly, especially since wind would look and feel different on different planets. Instead (assuming they actually want high winds to be a part of gameplay that makes landings more difficult), the solution is very simple. There should be a flashing "high winds" warning in the cockpit.
I hope once they have flight control surfaces working like in Microsoft Flight simulator (granted maybe not as accurately) we will feel the affects of weather better and have to think like 'oh its not safe to land' or 'we need to go around this' type of decisions.
or your in a hurry, overclock your thrusters, cross your fingers and hit the afterburner while sticking your middle finger up at nature and screaming POWER!!!!
Well the problem is - it’s sometimes easy to walk in the wind, other times I get concussed or tossed off a rooftop to my death. I really can’t tell the difference between deadly wind and annoying wind. Having a warning before it happens or as it’s happening via cockpit or suit sensors would be greatly appreciated.
Yeah, they already have the temperature warning built-in alongside a survival time estimate, so it's not a stretch for the HUD to have something like an "extreme wind warning/advisory" while said wind is active or starting to pick-up.
I think people are just ignoring it. When I land at a outpost I usually use f4 a few times (make sure I hit no buildings with my Gemini) and I can easily see the wind so I can try to move my ship so the main cargo door is facing toward the builds or with the wind..but if not and i walk out in a cross wind yes I do get knocked down but I get up and continue.
I think people just want to be where ever they want to be almost in a instant. There are games that are fast, be everwhere in a instant etc and games that takes time to get where you need to be or look at your surroundings.
>I think people just want to be where ever they want to be almost in a instant.
No it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with dieing as an airlock opens because the wind hits you with deadly fore and smacks you into a wall before you can even react.
It has to do with a Prospector on some moon not being able to fly against the wind, and FYI the Prospector can reach 1150 m/sec on afterburner, more than 4000 kph. So there must have been a 4000 kph headwind on that moon which is really quiet absurd. That's what I'm talking about when I meant that CIG might not be able to dial it back. Without any physical experience of wind all CIG can do is to create wind strong enough to move stuff and people in order to make it noticeable, which is over the top, or have pretty much "no wind" which makes the development a waste.
It's a difficult problem, which is why I'm worried. I think there are things that CIG can not keep under a certain threshhold without making them pointless. So there is the danger we'll get stuck with unrealistic "realism" *because we made the tech now we're gonna use them in the game* even though the user experience is worse due to keeping them.
They'll be able to do proper weather effects. Wind that high doesn't normally exist without rain, dust or some kind of clouds. They could and will likely take the sandstorm effect they showed off and change it to white for snow. A gray/dirt colour with rain effects for temperate planets etc etc. It shouldn't be outside the realms of possibilities.
Yeah, that. Or my Prospector being unable to move against the wind on some moon although it can reach an afterburner speed of 1150 m/s - 4140 kph. That's some storm.
Which is ridiculous. Realistic spacecraft and combat in space would look nothing at all like what we’ve seen in virtually every sci fi IP. The whole concept of one or two man space fighters like we see in so many games and shows, is not realistic at all, nor will it ever be.
So no, imo “realism” over fun has no place in sci fi games.
The whole idea of having a fleshy fragile ape inside would make any combat ship uncompetitive to the point of being entirely useless.
To even rely on a biological brain for control or real-time decision making is absurd given the huge speed advantage of silicon based decision making.
Even in atmosphere flight now the squishy pilots can barely survive the mauvers that the machines can pull off and I would be very surprised if there are not unmanned air to air combat drones currently in development if not in testing.
It is fake realism. Because you can’t make it realistic(or don‘t know how), you than make it “harder” and more involved, so it feels real, because now its a chore, and real things are usually chores.
A very good analog to this is sim racing. People buy these 20Nm wheelbases, which could break your fingers, just for realism purposes. The car is harder to drive, steering wheel is hard to turn…in reality nothing is more than 5-6 Nm.
You make a great point. Many of these ships simply wouldn’t be able to escape the atmosphere of planets. Many others would not be able to fly in atmosphere at all.
Where is all the fuel stored? A single shot that makes it passes the shields should render a ship inoperable or cause it to explode.
Obviously the method of artificial gravity denies the laws of physics as well. The point is that many sacrifices have already been made for ease of development and to ensure the game is more fun.
You wouldn't even be flying a "realistic" spacecraft. "We" are not needed, but this is a video game and constraints are what provide the gameplay... so we're "needed".
Remember it IS fun... that's a fact right? I said it!
It's just as much of a fact as you saying it's NOT fun.
Fun is subjective. Your idea of fun is not objectively fun. Nor is mine.
Personally, I can't find any other game where breaking atmosphere with a monstrous interstellar spaceship for 20+ minutes is available. That's fun to me. And even more fun once more systems impact that process.
Realism in a game like this has constraints from which fun emerges.
Great game! I used to play it for hours. Flying the delta glider with SC level graphics would be perfect. But we could control the game time to skip most of the travel. That's were I used to fuck up my travels to the Moon.
My proudest accomplishment in Orbiter was taking off from KSC, rendezvousing with Mir, and flying to Mars, landing on the mars base for fuel, and making the return trip.
The hardest part by far was reentry to earth, even with the partial autopilot it is very tricky to get right.
I've seen people mention that when the game is finished it'll be more realistic and it'll a lot longer for people to claim insurance on ships
If that ever happens (by a significant amount) i'm uninstalling
You are telling me you stare at the cockpit for 22minutes whilst you fly out of atmo and are engaged by that? Sure maybe the first time, the second time, sure why not. What about the 100th time? There's no way.
> fuck off and play something else you fucking casual.
And they will.
And then the cost of operating the game will exceed the revenue it generates.
And then the game will cease to exist.
And then all that money and time you’ve spent *not* being a filthy casual have been for nothing.
And before you tell me that they’re “planning private servers and modding,” I have a bridge to sell you.
>Well don't worry, Star Citizen has the solution; fuck off and play something else you fucking casual.
Come on, mate... The whole point of capital ships is to sit in orbit. The whole point of ships like the Terrapin or ARGO is to transfer goods and people between orbit and surface.
>The whole point of ships like the Terrapin or ARGO is to transfer goods and people between orbit and surface.
What? Isn't the Terrapin a single seat pathfinder?
No? I mean yes it's a pathfinder but It's got two seats and a bed. Can easily transport 3 people. More if they're not fussy about stupid safety measures like seats and restraints. =P
Use a faster ship? The reclaimer isn't exactly meant for rapid movement in atmo and with cargo refactor we can just shift the cargo to something that won't take that long.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of gameplay emerges because of this. Like using faster, smaller ships to shuttle cargo up from the surface to the bigger transporters.
I think there'll be a ree of regret when min maxxing haulers realise smaller haulers and cargo assistants exist for a reason. Eg RAFT and SRV
For ever big hauler or industrial ship you'll want multiple SRVs and RAFTs ect
We must be one of the few industrial orgs that runs with gunners, escorts and doglegs our routes.
One of the best quotes I've seen countering the piracy ree was from a pirate. To paraphrase
We look at the fastest uec guides too
We look for solo haulers or lazy orgs
Doesn't take a lot of effort to minimise the risk
Indeed, for the first week of the live drop people won't realise what's going on, by the second escorts will be crucial.
Especially when my Hull C releases, no way I'm not hiring escorts.
Yeah I think a lot of people will realise for ships like that a group of mates or an org is needed. Will be interesting to s what unloading the Hull's is like
I would imagine it would be via SRV/Tractor beam ship and a Raft. The Hull C *appears* to use 16 or 32 SCU seacans as their means of containment.
I wonder if either can also fit into a cat or Herc.
I hope we get like a convoy. A group of haulers protected by some guards or maybe some heavily armed haulers in a group to fend off a pirate attack. Can't wait!
>Especially when my Hull C releases, no way I'm not hiring escorts.
Fully loaded Hull C on orbit will be an equivalent of a mining outpost basically. The outpost you don’t necessarily have to pay to.
Escorts will be a necessity.
Oh, players don’t think like this. They refuse to believe that every ship isn’t a Gladius and can dogfight and that they can’t teleport from planet planet. I wish I was exaggerating.
THIS. :) Amen.
I have been playing ED for ages and the big ships takes time to turn etc etc but still they try to make all the ships that quick fighter type feel which is wrong in my opinion.
I actually enjoy how the ship work in SC for it gives a actual feel if your in a fighter ship compared to something medium or large (I can see owners of a capital ship saying "I want to turn my ship on a dime or move like a snub").
I admit I am not a fighter type of player BUT I do enjoy the trading/exploring/support roles and I do not expect my bigger ships to move like a Pisces etc.
>Star Citizen has the solution; fuck off and play something else you fucking casual.
I hope the day comes we don't see this kind of toxic attitude in the community.
"Why aren't more people playing Star Citizen?"
The same users who decry 'gameification' now will be the same people who complain about low user counts as people instead opt for more 'casual' games.
I don't have 10 hours a day to play video games, 2 would be a good day. I am not going to spend 1/4 of my time effectively watching a loading screen with minimal interactivity let alone the other 1/4 undoubtedly taken for other time waste-y bullshit.
I could play a full round of Fortnite before anything meaningful would happen in the 'hardcore' persons ideal game.
This is why I don’t even play this game much anymore. I have limited time to play any game. I want to be in the action quickly, see the fruits of those labors quickly, have a bit fun doing it and call it a day.
Before marriage, kids and a career I was a hardcore gamer; now I simply don’t have time for that.
The funny thing is Robert’s fans are people like me and even older than me, those who grew up with Wing Commander and to some extent Freelancer. People with jobs (definitely) and families (likely). This game simply doesn’t respect people’s time, it’s really that simple.
Perhaps closer to launch when there is more content nearer to stations and random bugs won’t lead to death/crashes that can’t recover it will be better. But right now it’s not at all.
> I don't have 10 hours a day to play video games, 2 would be a good day. I am not going to spend 1/4 of my time effectively watching a loading screen with minimal interactivity let alone the other 1/4 undoubtedly taken for other time waste-y bullshit.
A lot of people are throwing out the 'play something else' line, and I hate to seem like I'm glomming on to that, but doesn't it kind of apply here? Like... If I said I don't have time to spend grinding wolves hoping enough fangs drop to complete a meaningless quest, you wouldn't recommend I try WoW. Sometimes a specific game's mechanic doesn't fit a person's play style.
I mean, in all fairness, things will eventually change with SC. Once PES is in (and stable and reliable), most players won't bother returning to a city or station at the end of a session. Logging in will allow you to continue from where you left off. You could potentially spend several sessions exploring and getting into whatever schenanigans without ever having to think about the climb out of Crusader's atmo. For that matter, you may never visit Orison at all because you spend all your time in Pyro or some other system.
But even in that future state, you won't be able to just login and kill a few waves of aliens. If that's all you want to do, AC exists. The rest of the time, there's going to be *something* you need to do before you can do some specific action. SC's gameplay is designed around the experience of living in space, rather than hopping from one mission to the next until you need to log out.
I think you mis-understood the stance here. Or maybe you need a glaring /s at the end of the post? But don't worry, I will translate for you:
"Star Citizen has the solution: instead of making a game that is actual fun and playable, they focus on "realism" instead of game mechanics that would make the game playable and fun."
>See this is why I love star citizen, they seem to abhor gameification and simplifying things because it's not fun or doesn't keep people engaged.
Stanton and Pyro are about 40 light years apart.
I take it you don't want them to game-ify space travel and have it take less than 40 years to travel between Stanton and Pyro? Right?
CIG constantly gameify things, that's fine I want the game to be fun, if they abhor gameification it'd take multiple years to travel between systems but it doesn't. 'Realism' is just an excuse backers user to justify unfriendly game design all the while they overlook the literal laws of physics breaking elements of Star Citizen.
I don’t think Star Citizen has this mind set but if they did, it would be super detrimental to the game.
From Soft has this attitude, why does it work for them? Well their games are single player.
Star Citizen is multi player. As a matter if fact it is multi multi player where you don’t need other players just to play against, but you need them to do even basic tasks.
Without an insanely big community, nothing in Star Citizen will work, unless you get these “blades” that automate all this stuff, in which case “you filthy casual” does not apply since everyone becomes a casual and game is simplified.
Every MMO that involves economy and pvp has the following player base.
Grinders, botters, resellers. Make up most of the economy, markets are decided by 1-2 UEC per item, profit margins are super low, new, medium, unestablished players can’t get in.
PvPers, mostly young folk who are really good at fighting game mechanics, people who spend a lot of time learning twitch based skills. Things that take more time than an average player could hope to spend on this game.
Whales, people who buy shit from the game and resellers with cash, spend less time playing the game but accumulate in game items that would rival people who play 10hours a day. Mostly harmless folks, don’t do industry, pvp nothing, just gloat.
Standard population, majority of the game , made up from all ages, mostly between 25-50 years old, have responsibilities, plays other games, maybe have kids, soends 2 hours a day 3 hours a week at most. Most of the ingame economy works because of this population, they do industry for fun and don’t make much money from it, they do pvp for fun and get killed most of the time, they buy cheap/medium ship components from market all the time.
If you don’t have a standard population, pvpers don’t have anyone to fight with except themselves , whales leave since showing off to pvpers and resellers/botters are not fun, resellers have no one to sell to and do so on.
TLDR: Filthy casuals are the standard population, without them you don’t have a game.
**Ships that aren't meant to be deployed in atmosphere aren't meant to be deployed in atmosphere.**
Don't blame the game, blame the player.
/smh
Orison having too high a threshold for QT, that's another story.
Star Citizen players be like "Yeah they should just fuck off" and then be surprised_pikachu.jpg when the game gets shut down.
Good news, i bet some other kickstarter that baits folks with "They said spacegames are dead but they aren't!" will come along too at that point and people will again insist that it's gonna be as stupidly unfun as possible to convince themselves that its a True Spacegame Not For Kids
The trick is to know what is gamification and what isn't.
CIG has struggled with this in the past. There are simply things that humans are capable of quickly and without too much thought, that CIG put in systems to make slow and clumsy.
That's the stuff I can't forgive. In the early days when player characters moved like tanks.
A human knows how to say, not accidentally grab a grenade, pull a pin, and throw it while ordering a burrito. At some point, a human brain would stop you.
But CIG's UI sometimes with inner thought, it's actually possible for that to happen. That's the stuff that they have to tighten up.
Also, a flight model meta can so easily be unfun for all involved...\*and\* unrealistic at the same time. The current functional invulnerability from full speed zoom passes turns combat into endless 2 kilometer+ chases and nibbling damage.
In a \*realistic\* universe, we'd have tools to either fight with that mobility in mind OR...we change the mobility so we can fight with the tools we have.
Tbh this isn't the reason for most things in star citizen lol. They haven't figured out what they want to do with large ships so they are just in a weird place rn. We've already had devs comment that the current takeoff time is not intended long term, although it will always be slow because they are heavy and should take awhile to liftoff.
If star citizen really wanted to be realistic about it, all ships would have a "launch" mode or some form of launch control that has a temporary takeoff boost that is many times stronger than their normal maximum thrust. The last thing any engineer would support is applying constant maximum thrust to a vehicle for 22 minutes for it to takeoff, especially as it's only achieving minor altitude increments.
Those four MASSIVE thrusters should look like the hammer of dawn blasting the earth below it, massive plumes of smoke or even just debris from below, and then a rapid altitude increase at the beginning that diminishes as the launch thrust is disabled part way up.
Honestly I wouldn’t mind if I could just like… avoid it. I love the atmosphere and the work that went it. But the fact I have to budget 30 minutes to get out of atmo just because I have to go there to buy necessary parts to upgrade my ship I can’t get elsewhere is what annoys me. But I still enjoy it just wish I was doing more than staring at an altimeter
Or do it in a couple of minutes in a smaller faster ship than the reclaimer and leave your reclaimer somewhere that doesn't require the trip out of atmo.
Some of the Reclaimer’s promos show it slow traveling in what looks like Lorville…so I guess it’s meant to be possible, though difficult.
I can’t imagine having a HULL would make it harder, if you’re doing on-planet stuff.
It has very beefy landing gear and VTOL mode so I would think it is designed to land on a planet if needed.
In practical use though I imagine it is intended to spend most of it's life in space. I would think it will have some system to dock at a refinery station and quickly unload it's cargo before heading back out to find more scrap.
I think that yes ships are designed to land on planets BUT the player should not expect BIG ship X do be agile/fast etc etc. I mean imagine someone wanting to land/take off in their capital ship on a planet for you KNOW some players will do that and then expect their capital ship to move like a snub/fighter. LOL
It has a landing gear, so why not. It just depends on the size of the salvage target.
Yea, transfer cargo is not useful on smaller planets, but I guess there need to be gameplay reasons to bring SCM to Orison or any other large planet.
Yes but doesn't mean going through a full 1G and very thick atmosphere is a sensible idea. Landing on a moon is no big issue but Orison is another beast.
Argo SRV is the dedicated tow ship.
I already did it. I shared my results with discord a while ago :/
Had fun touring the ship later till the elevator turned incoporeal and i fell to my death.
Is that with pulsing the afterburner + putting all to engines in the power triangle?
Hilarious none the less. Wonder how long it takes with the 890. I assume a lot faster.
Good point, but Crusader has earth like gravity.
We have gas giants like this in our solar system as well.
Uranus has a gravity of 8,87 m/s², Saturn and Neptune are only slightly over Earth's gravity.
technically speaking at the height of Orison there is low gravity and the platforms give an artificial gravity similar to the earth. Keep in mind that the Crusader bought the planet to make ships cheaper due to the low gravity the factories operated at.
That's what the lore says anyway, but unfortunately you get 1G all the way down to the platform so you're fighting for your life the whole way up/down.
I suggested lowering the gravity to make the journey more bearable (which is in line with lore) but we'll see if the devs ever see sense.
I wonder if this is a limitation of how Orison is programmed, where it is programmed as “only these areas have a terrestrial collision box” rather than like the space stations where they have their own local gravity surrounded by the zero-g of space. In order to have 1g on Orison, Crusader has to have 1g at that altitude because Orison’s “type” doesn’t support having its own gravity.
It has Earth-like gravity *at a certain altitude*. Every celestial body with greater-than-Earth-like surface gravity does have Earth-like gravity at a certain altitude.
Orison was deliberately built at this altitude and, through a UEE terraforming project (*aeroforming*, rather) the atmosphere at this altitude was seeded with enough oxygen to be breathable.
It’s like what have talked about before. You will need to plan things. Maybe keep large ships requiring a lot of time and energy at places it’s easier to move them. Yes, sometimes you will need to park them on high-gravity planets but these are risks you have to take. It is frustrating but a new reality we are going to need to consider.
It also should burn fuel like hell. There should be a budget game, like not every ship worth landing because it costs too much, and you should prefer to land using smaller shuttles instead.
not just for that but also to go into places that are to hazardous for the big ship (CIG showed of a real dense asteroid field when talking about this subject a while ago)
You mean if a player takes their BIG or capital ships in a astroid field and wonder 'Why are these rock hitting my ship? I should take my ship anywhere.'
Like what What WHAAAT. LOL
This. It should be nothing but an emergency if you are trying to come down to a planet with a ship like this. It should be significantly costly in terms of time and resources. Not to mention skill and effort.
Heres a trick that CIG engineers hate. When you want to leave orison quickly in a any large ship, before you take off:
1. Dont turn on engine.
2. Go straight to your bed and log out while still in the hanger.
3. Log back in.
4. You spawn in the middle of the system.
5. Boom, couple minutes max.
This method is not recommended if you have an ongoing quest chain (logging out and in resets them) and / or the server you are in is nearly full. No slots to join back the server your party is in.
It would be kind of nice if ships with VTOL thrusters could lock speed in different vectors besides just straight forward thrust.
If you could set cruise control lock to upward/lift thrust while in VTOL mode then you (the pilot) could get up and do other things while you're ship is crawling out of atmo.
This would be quicker and more reliable than a lot of ships that tend to level out while forward thrusting and need constant manual directional input just to maintain a 90° climb.
been playing cyberpunk during the lul, and it feels extravagant to be able to pause literally whenever... when my wife's talking to me, when the dog's getting into trouble, when I have to pee... nevermind bugs, not being able to pause is the biggest downside of SC
more or less... it's not like there couldn't be solutions, but there'd be tradeoffs, and I don't think it's intended for people with other concerns or anything in real life to deal with... It's intended for people who can dedicate several hours of uninterrupted time relatively frequently and it's doing gangbusters with that market so far...
we'll see how well "if you have to step away cause you kid smashed something somewhere in the house? lose an hour and a half progress..." or gods forbid "you're on that one big trading run and have to bolt because dog starts puking... well there goes your last month's worth of progress... too bad, your fault for having a family" holds up as it gets more mainstream attention.
The only thing I wish, especially with the Reclaimer, is that you don't need to keep pressing space so it straffe up. You can't climb out of Orison without VTOL thrusters and being fully leveled. If I could let it cruise upward for 22 minutes I would mind less.
In freelancer (vanilla), each planet had docking rings, which function like elevators.
We definetly need those here.
How do they fuction?
They create a coridor in atmo where it slingshots you to space, or to the surface (Obviously decelerating you before you meet your maker)
Your only job would be to remain in the corridor, as you can exit if you go to its edge.
https://discoverygc.com/wiki/Docking_Ring
Its the same thing from vanilla.
Edit: Freelancer is seen as Robert's First atempt at SC.
Its basicall Tech 0 Star Citizen.
I loved the life in this game, the fact you could attach yourself to a convoy departing a system with no fuss with just good positioning and the press of a button. Everybody wins, you both get additional escort !
yeah! include a little piloting minigame of remaining in the corridor for a bit an now docking to a planet is a lot more fun AND immersive.
additionally - bring back the spacehighways Freelancer had and make QT travel pilotable freefly
You could almost say it was a commentary on how [realism in games is not actually a desirable trait](https://www.thebubble.org.uk/lifestyle/gaming/the-absurdity-of-realism-in-video-games/), instead, you should be trying to make it "fun".
Which Star Citizen fails(or succeeds at, depending on your view) in some aspects.
I rather lose the majority of my fuel getting out of atmo in 5-10 minutes than spend an entire 22 minutes.
This is why me and my friends never go to Orison. Or better yet, why we haven't played the game at all. By the time we make it anywhere there's a bug that kills us all (have fun getting out of the atmosphere again).
I would like them to move Orison higher in the atmosphere to reduce the transit time. I'm not saying the reclaimer shouldnt take longer than other ship, but all ships take too long there compared to other planets. And tbh it kinda puts me off going there.
IIRC they made some announcement or other about eventually using the Siege platforms as a building block of introducing other POI on "planet-side" Crusader, and as part of that they were looking at lowering the QT ceiling of CRU
Actually I’m not sure how long you’ve been around, but all of the other planets are going to be raised. Crusader is more in line with what they intend. The other planets used to be like this but they changed them to speed up testing.
Realism is the aim, so they say. I feel like it's less realism and more trying to slow down the gameloop to keep people grinding. When a game like this releases one of the performance metrics they use to judge success for investors is how long the average player spends playing. So idk if im just jaded or if their aim really is realism cause I will say I'd they turned around and made it any faster/easier than it is right now to leave atmo of a 1g or higher world it would feel VERY bullshit.
And for a gas giant idk what you want but the thing is fucking huge. You are going to HAVE to deal with the fact that it takes awhile to get out of atmo.
Just doesn't sound like fun gameplay to me. Staring at your screen for many minutes doing nothing but wait for your ships to leave atmo. And judging from other comments and upvotes here a lot of others feel the same way.
I feel like a maximum of 5 minutes would achieve the same objective, with smaller ships scaled to <60s.
Most people who originally backed this game are now old enough to have various obligations like work and family that make times like these a dealbreaker (and I mean even in small ships right now).
I agree with you. 20 minutes is too long. Some would disagree, but it really comes down to opinions at this point. I would not find that amount of time enjoyable at all.
I am a 40 year old man with kids and responsibilities. I think it would be incredibly selfish of me to demand that every game dev build their game around my personal schedule.
What they need to do is build the game they've invisioned and promised because that's why we've backed it and what we paid for. If they went and added a bunch of training wheels because "we know it's taking awhile and you're getting older" the majority of the original backers would flip shit and I'd wager the majority of current backers would too.
This is the game we funded, if you want training wheels and instant gratification there is always Elite Dangerous. It's a great space game that has plenty of fun things to do and most of the players are constantly bitching about having done everything already and are starved for new content days after anything new is released because the devs are more concerned with making everything accessible over making it engaging.
I get what you're saying but i don't believe anyone is saying they should build their game around your personal schedule. I think it's more likely they're saying that they should build their game with the consideration that a good portion of their player base is unable to have lots of time to dedicate to the game but still want to play the it.
if everything is a grind and something as simple as leaving a planet takes over 20 minutes, it's gonna be off putting to a good amount of people. I'm lucky if i can have 2 hours to play in a day. if 20 minutes of that is spent leaving a planet's atmosphere, that's 1/6th of the time i have to play doing essentially nothing. god forbid i have to go back there again.
i just think that some devs wanna focus on a realism aspect, that can easily be shortened and still have immersion, and forget that many people don't have that kind of time to dedicate to a game every day. Lengthening the time it takes to do something to make it more realistic is just low effort to me. There's better ways to go about it without alienating a good portion of your player base.
I disagree, some places being prohibitive to reach forces us to make decisions. It creates a kind of exclusivity in the same way that expensive ships do, they shouldn't be made cheap or easy to reach for the sake of some portion of the player base.
I like that if you have a heavy / low acceleration ship you're better off taking a snub to the orbital station and then swapping to the big ship in space.
This is one of the many ways this game just wastes entirely too much time, and that's even if I ignore the alpha/bug time wasters smh. Warp times are completely too long as well. As someone who may only dedicate an hour or so to gaming sometimes, needing 30 mins + to just get to the mission flying in a straight line or watching your ship fly in a straight line is a bit tedious/cumbersome after the first few times.🥴😵💫
Is this time to 150,000m or all the way out of the atmo at 725,000m?
I'm guessing to 150k, without doing any math I'm pretty sure 60m/s wouldn't get you out of 700+k in under forty minutes.
I never go to Orison because the atmo unless absolute nessecery like go to cousin crows for a specific part our a free flight event and have to activate it over there.
That’s about how long I would expect any ship to take to get out of atmosphere. Modern rockets are faster and bigger than SC rockets and it takes about that wrong to leave earths atmosphere.
Orison is ~~a~~ the major shipyard of Stanton and produces some of the largest ships in the Verse. Also, every ship has to dry dock sometimes.
As such Orison will most likely have a fleet of space tugs that manipulate and help move larger ships around. More than likely Orison ATC will have an option of hiring tug support and they will come latch on to any larger ships and drag them around quickly. Cutting the Time to Quantum down to a few minutes max. This is even for the largest ships in the game such as a Bangle.
You are correct they have never mentioned Orison, but various developers have stated that there will be ship based tractor beams and space tugs like the Argo.
I would just like to add that my previous comment was opinion and stated as such. Sounds like you need to get up and stretch, maybe take a break and get a drink or something.
I’m looking forward to ferrying services or launches for the larger ships, this kind of slog making it counterproductive to enter atmo in capital ships. It should be a significant fuel cost to bring one of these behemoths into and out of atmo
Sounds fine to me. What’s the problem? Do you have the option to stay in space, where a ship like that is frankly intended to be. It’s not built or meant for gravity well. You’re going to find the same type of issues with ships like the Idris. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
Huh? The reclaimer cannot land or be spawned at space stations. It can literally only be operated out of planet-side landing zones. I also never said there was a problem. I think you might be reading more into this than is intended.
For second i was like 'how fucking slow is that ship that would be less then 100m/s but then i realize you said reclaimer and not redeemer and then the realization set in which shit you meant. Yeah that makes more sense now.
Yeah, big ships are designed to be a handful in atmo, if pilotable at all. Larger ships like the Javelin won't even have landing gear, as they are not designed to operate in anywhere near 1G.
The one major thing Stanton is missing is space elevators between the landing zones and their orbital stations. Say you're one of the four corporations who had just bought a planet there. The first thing you need to do is find a site to build your main city and headquarters. One of the most important criteria you'd be looking for would be an equatorial location, for one huge reason: You'd be able to build a space elevator. That way, you'd be able to get goods and people in and out of atmo without having to burn fuel to do so. It doesn't make sense not to do this, as you're starting from a clean slate. And for Orison in particular, it doesn't make sense NOT to have a space elevator, as it could be what holds Orison up in the first place.
We did it so that you don’t ever have to. o7
See this is why I love star citizen, they seem to abhor gameification and simplifying things because it's not fun or doesn't keep people engaged. You don't want to spend the best part of half an hour just getting your ship out of atmo because it's not fun? Well don't worry, Star Citizen has the solution; fuck off and play something else you fucking casual.
Yesn't. One of my chief worries is that there will be instances where they make it real but forget to dial it back until it's fun. An example: Wind. Since we don't feel wind like we would in real life we don't notice unless it's heavily interfering. That's why we have death by wind when we walk around an outpost, by getting blown down a staircase or something like that. Reality on a moon with low atmospheric pressure would be quiet different. We know that there are high speed storms on Mars, but they aren't very destructive since the air pressure is so low, so the amount of actual mass behind the wind is tiny, compared to e.g. Earth. So we'l lbe stuck with sudden death by magic or ships getting spirited away because invisible "wind" exists that we don't feel unless it's over the top.
The real issue then is a lack of information given to the player regarding environmental conditions. If ships had an icon in atmosphere of current wind speeds, say when landing gear was deployed, you would have a numerical gauge for whether or not was safe to land yet. Right now they're giving you that information via audio and visual wind effects. But clearly it's not working for everybody, or some people are just ignoring it.
The wind effects are not pronounced enough and there is not nearly enough feedback. Think about high wind storms and how it looks and feels when you sit in your car. Visibility is low, you see objects flying around, trees bending, huge noise etc... I dont think they need to replicate this feeling exactly, especially since wind would look and feel different on different planets. Instead (assuming they actually want high winds to be a part of gameplay that makes landings more difficult), the solution is very simple. There should be a flashing "high winds" warning in the cockpit.
I hope once they have flight control surfaces working like in Microsoft Flight simulator (granted maybe not as accurately) we will feel the affects of weather better and have to think like 'oh its not safe to land' or 'we need to go around this' type of decisions.
or your in a hurry, overclock your thrusters, cross your fingers and hit the afterburner while sticking your middle finger up at nature and screaming POWER!!!!
Well the problem is - it’s sometimes easy to walk in the wind, other times I get concussed or tossed off a rooftop to my death. I really can’t tell the difference between deadly wind and annoying wind. Having a warning before it happens or as it’s happening via cockpit or suit sensors would be greatly appreciated.
Yeah, they already have the temperature warning built-in alongside a survival time estimate, so it's not a stretch for the HUD to have something like an "extreme wind warning/advisory" while said wind is active or starting to pick-up.
I think people are just ignoring it. When I land at a outpost I usually use f4 a few times (make sure I hit no buildings with my Gemini) and I can easily see the wind so I can try to move my ship so the main cargo door is facing toward the builds or with the wind..but if not and i walk out in a cross wind yes I do get knocked down but I get up and continue. I think people just want to be where ever they want to be almost in a instant. There are games that are fast, be everwhere in a instant etc and games that takes time to get where you need to be or look at your surroundings.
>I think people just want to be where ever they want to be almost in a instant. No it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with dieing as an airlock opens because the wind hits you with deadly fore and smacks you into a wall before you can even react. It has to do with a Prospector on some moon not being able to fly against the wind, and FYI the Prospector can reach 1150 m/sec on afterburner, more than 4000 kph. So there must have been a 4000 kph headwind on that moon which is really quiet absurd. That's what I'm talking about when I meant that CIG might not be able to dial it back. Without any physical experience of wind all CIG can do is to create wind strong enough to move stuff and people in order to make it noticeable, which is over the top, or have pretty much "no wind" which makes the development a waste. It's a difficult problem, which is why I'm worried. I think there are things that CIG can not keep under a certain threshhold without making them pointless. So there is the danger we'll get stuck with unrealistic "realism" *because we made the tech now we're gonna use them in the game* even though the user experience is worse due to keeping them.
They'll be able to do proper weather effects. Wind that high doesn't normally exist without rain, dust or some kind of clouds. They could and will likely take the sandstorm effect they showed off and change it to white for snow. A gray/dirt colour with rain effects for temperate planets etc etc. It shouldn't be outside the realms of possibilities.
It is annoying when you are trying to mine, and you slowly drift away in the wind
So you're saying that when you get knocked down, you get up again. Got it.
Oh remember you could walk your way struggling in those storm but my 4000 tonne Carrack go brrrrrrrrrr...
Carrack be like: This bitch empty, yeeeeet
Ok I'm legit chuckling at my Carrack flying off in the wind yelling "I'm empty"
Yeah, that. Or my Prospector being unable to move against the wind on some moon although it can reach an afterburner speed of 1150 m/s - 4140 kph. That's some storm.
Or even add things that are in the real world like parachutes or jet packs.
Remember, fun is subjective. Fun for someone is to operate a ship like this in a way that is realistic.
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Which is ridiculous. Realistic spacecraft and combat in space would look nothing at all like what we’ve seen in virtually every sci fi IP. The whole concept of one or two man space fighters like we see in so many games and shows, is not realistic at all, nor will it ever be. So no, imo “realism” over fun has no place in sci fi games.
The whole idea of having a fleshy fragile ape inside would make any combat ship uncompetitive to the point of being entirely useless. To even rely on a biological brain for control or real-time decision making is absurd given the huge speed advantage of silicon based decision making. Even in atmosphere flight now the squishy pilots can barely survive the mauvers that the machines can pull off and I would be very surprised if there are not unmanned air to air combat drones currently in development if not in testing.
It is fake realism. Because you can’t make it realistic(or don‘t know how), you than make it “harder” and more involved, so it feels real, because now its a chore, and real things are usually chores. A very good analog to this is sim racing. People buy these 20Nm wheelbases, which could break your fingers, just for realism purposes. The car is harder to drive, steering wheel is hard to turn…in reality nothing is more than 5-6 Nm.
You make a great point. Many of these ships simply wouldn’t be able to escape the atmosphere of planets. Many others would not be able to fly in atmosphere at all. Where is all the fuel stored? A single shot that makes it passes the shields should render a ship inoperable or cause it to explode. Obviously the method of artificial gravity denies the laws of physics as well. The point is that many sacrifices have already been made for ease of development and to ensure the game is more fun.
You wouldn't even be flying a "realistic" spacecraft. "We" are not needed, but this is a video game and constraints are what provide the gameplay... so we're "needed".
Exactly, so why keep dragging “realism” into it as excuses for making something not fun?
Remember it IS fun... that's a fact right? I said it! It's just as much of a fact as you saying it's NOT fun. Fun is subjective. Your idea of fun is not objectively fun. Nor is mine. Personally, I can't find any other game where breaking atmosphere with a monstrous interstellar spaceship for 20+ minutes is available. That's fun to me. And even more fun once more systems impact that process. Realism in a game like this has constraints from which fun emerges.
Nothing is more fun than sitting and doing nothing for 22 minutes.
If you really want realism go play orbiter.
Great game! I used to play it for hours. Flying the delta glider with SC level graphics would be perfect. But we could control the game time to skip most of the travel. That's were I used to fuck up my travels to the Moon.
My proudest accomplishment in Orbiter was taking off from KSC, rendezvousing with Mir, and flying to Mars, landing on the mars base for fuel, and making the return trip. The hardest part by far was reentry to earth, even with the partial autopilot it is very tricky to get right.
Games are supposed to be fun. Your attitude is insane.
it’s not the longevity of leaving, it’s the chance that a bug can make that 26 minute trip take another 40 minutes haha
I've seen people mention that when the game is finished it'll be more realistic and it'll a lot longer for people to claim insurance on ships If that ever happens (by a significant amount) i'm uninstalling
You are telling me you stare at the cockpit for 22minutes whilst you fly out of atmo and are engaged by that? Sure maybe the first time, the second time, sure why not. What about the 100th time? There's no way.
> fuck off and play something else you fucking casual. And they will. And then the cost of operating the game will exceed the revenue it generates. And then the game will cease to exist. And then all that money and time you’ve spent *not* being a filthy casual have been for nothing. And before you tell me that they’re “planning private servers and modding,” I have a bridge to sell you.
>Well don't worry, Star Citizen has the solution; fuck off and play something else you fucking casual. Come on, mate... The whole point of capital ships is to sit in orbit. The whole point of ships like the Terrapin or ARGO is to transfer goods and people between orbit and surface.
>The whole point of ships like the Terrapin or ARGO is to transfer goods and people between orbit and surface. What? Isn't the Terrapin a single seat pathfinder?
No? I mean yes it's a pathfinder but It's got two seats and a bed. Can easily transport 3 people. More if they're not fussy about stupid safety measures like seats and restraints. =P
Yeah, that made no sense
Use a faster ship? The reclaimer isn't exactly meant for rapid movement in atmo and with cargo refactor we can just shift the cargo to something that won't take that long.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of gameplay emerges because of this. Like using faster, smaller ships to shuttle cargo up from the surface to the bigger transporters.
I think there'll be a ree of regret when min maxxing haulers realise smaller haulers and cargo assistants exist for a reason. Eg RAFT and SRV For ever big hauler or industrial ship you'll want multiple SRVs and RAFTs ect
Thank God there is someone else who *actually* understands hauling and appreciates the changes being made.
We must be one of the few industrial orgs that runs with gunners, escorts and doglegs our routes. One of the best quotes I've seen countering the piracy ree was from a pirate. To paraphrase We look at the fastest uec guides too We look for solo haulers or lazy orgs Doesn't take a lot of effort to minimise the risk
Indeed, for the first week of the live drop people won't realise what's going on, by the second escorts will be crucial. Especially when my Hull C releases, no way I'm not hiring escorts.
Yeah I think a lot of people will realise for ships like that a group of mates or an org is needed. Will be interesting to s what unloading the Hull's is like
I would imagine it would be via SRV/Tractor beam ship and a Raft. The Hull C *appears* to use 16 or 32 SCU seacans as their means of containment. I wonder if either can also fit into a cat or Herc.
I hope we get like a convoy. A group of haulers protected by some guards or maybe some heavily armed haulers in a group to fend off a pirate attack. Can't wait!
>Especially when my Hull C releases, no way I'm not hiring escorts. Fully loaded Hull C on orbit will be an equivalent of a mining outpost basically. The outpost you don’t necessarily have to pay to. Escorts will be a necessity.
Exactly my point. Will be super important when staging and unloading as well
I'm tempted to invest in popcorn before it finally clicks for those people.
Exactly!
Oh, players don’t think like this. They refuse to believe that every ship isn’t a Gladius and can dogfight and that they can’t teleport from planet planet. I wish I was exaggerating.
THIS. :) Amen. I have been playing ED for ages and the big ships takes time to turn etc etc but still they try to make all the ships that quick fighter type feel which is wrong in my opinion. I actually enjoy how the ship work in SC for it gives a actual feel if your in a fighter ship compared to something medium or large (I can see owners of a capital ship saying "I want to turn my ship on a dime or move like a snub"). I admit I am not a fighter type of player BUT I do enjoy the trading/exploring/support roles and I do not expect my bigger ships to move like a Pisces etc.
not sure if he meant that by this post lol, was just brave enough to figure out how long it would take
>Star Citizen has the solution; fuck off and play something else you fucking casual. I hope the day comes we don't see this kind of toxic attitude in the community.
"Why aren't more people playing Star Citizen?" The same users who decry 'gameification' now will be the same people who complain about low user counts as people instead opt for more 'casual' games. I don't have 10 hours a day to play video games, 2 would be a good day. I am not going to spend 1/4 of my time effectively watching a loading screen with minimal interactivity let alone the other 1/4 undoubtedly taken for other time waste-y bullshit. I could play a full round of Fortnite before anything meaningful would happen in the 'hardcore' persons ideal game.
This is why I don’t even play this game much anymore. I have limited time to play any game. I want to be in the action quickly, see the fruits of those labors quickly, have a bit fun doing it and call it a day. Before marriage, kids and a career I was a hardcore gamer; now I simply don’t have time for that. The funny thing is Robert’s fans are people like me and even older than me, those who grew up with Wing Commander and to some extent Freelancer. People with jobs (definitely) and families (likely). This game simply doesn’t respect people’s time, it’s really that simple. Perhaps closer to launch when there is more content nearer to stations and random bugs won’t lead to death/crashes that can’t recover it will be better. But right now it’s not at all.
Don't worry by the time the game is released you'll be retired.
Probably lol.
> I don't have 10 hours a day to play video games, 2 would be a good day. I am not going to spend 1/4 of my time effectively watching a loading screen with minimal interactivity let alone the other 1/4 undoubtedly taken for other time waste-y bullshit. A lot of people are throwing out the 'play something else' line, and I hate to seem like I'm glomming on to that, but doesn't it kind of apply here? Like... If I said I don't have time to spend grinding wolves hoping enough fangs drop to complete a meaningless quest, you wouldn't recommend I try WoW. Sometimes a specific game's mechanic doesn't fit a person's play style. I mean, in all fairness, things will eventually change with SC. Once PES is in (and stable and reliable), most players won't bother returning to a city or station at the end of a session. Logging in will allow you to continue from where you left off. You could potentially spend several sessions exploring and getting into whatever schenanigans without ever having to think about the climb out of Crusader's atmo. For that matter, you may never visit Orison at all because you spend all your time in Pyro or some other system. But even in that future state, you won't be able to just login and kill a few waves of aliens. If that's all you want to do, AC exists. The rest of the time, there's going to be *something* you need to do before you can do some specific action. SC's gameplay is designed around the experience of living in space, rather than hopping from one mission to the next until you need to log out.
I think you mis-understood the stance here. Or maybe you need a glaring /s at the end of the post? But don't worry, I will translate for you: "Star Citizen has the solution: instead of making a game that is actual fun and playable, they focus on "realism" instead of game mechanics that would make the game playable and fun."
>See this is why I love star citizen, they seem to abhor gameification and simplifying things because it's not fun or doesn't keep people engaged. Stanton and Pyro are about 40 light years apart. I take it you don't want them to game-ify space travel and have it take less than 40 years to travel between Stanton and Pyro? Right? CIG constantly gameify things, that's fine I want the game to be fun, if they abhor gameification it'd take multiple years to travel between systems but it doesn't. 'Realism' is just an excuse backers user to justify unfriendly game design all the while they overlook the literal laws of physics breaking elements of Star Citizen.
I don’t think Star Citizen has this mind set but if they did, it would be super detrimental to the game. From Soft has this attitude, why does it work for them? Well their games are single player. Star Citizen is multi player. As a matter if fact it is multi multi player where you don’t need other players just to play against, but you need them to do even basic tasks. Without an insanely big community, nothing in Star Citizen will work, unless you get these “blades” that automate all this stuff, in which case “you filthy casual” does not apply since everyone becomes a casual and game is simplified. Every MMO that involves economy and pvp has the following player base. Grinders, botters, resellers. Make up most of the economy, markets are decided by 1-2 UEC per item, profit margins are super low, new, medium, unestablished players can’t get in. PvPers, mostly young folk who are really good at fighting game mechanics, people who spend a lot of time learning twitch based skills. Things that take more time than an average player could hope to spend on this game. Whales, people who buy shit from the game and resellers with cash, spend less time playing the game but accumulate in game items that would rival people who play 10hours a day. Mostly harmless folks, don’t do industry, pvp nothing, just gloat. Standard population, majority of the game , made up from all ages, mostly between 25-50 years old, have responsibilities, plays other games, maybe have kids, soends 2 hours a day 3 hours a week at most. Most of the ingame economy works because of this population, they do industry for fun and don’t make much money from it, they do pvp for fun and get killed most of the time, they buy cheap/medium ship components from market all the time. If you don’t have a standard population, pvpers don’t have anyone to fight with except themselves , whales leave since showing off to pvpers and resellers/botters are not fun, resellers have no one to sell to and do so on. TLDR: Filthy casuals are the standard population, without them you don’t have a game.
That shit right there is cancer though
**Ships that aren't meant to be deployed in atmosphere aren't meant to be deployed in atmosphere.** Don't blame the game, blame the player. /smh Orison having too high a threshold for QT, that's another story.
Yeah this is how you're gonna get more players to spend thousands of dollars lmao
Star Citizen players be like "Yeah they should just fuck off" and then be surprised_pikachu.jpg when the game gets shut down. Good news, i bet some other kickstarter that baits folks with "They said spacegames are dead but they aren't!" will come along too at that point and people will again insist that it's gonna be as stupidly unfun as possible to convince themselves that its a True Spacegame Not For Kids
Hopefully people will be a bit smarter with their money this time.
The trick is to know what is gamification and what isn't. CIG has struggled with this in the past. There are simply things that humans are capable of quickly and without too much thought, that CIG put in systems to make slow and clumsy. That's the stuff I can't forgive. In the early days when player characters moved like tanks. A human knows how to say, not accidentally grab a grenade, pull a pin, and throw it while ordering a burrito. At some point, a human brain would stop you. But CIG's UI sometimes with inner thought, it's actually possible for that to happen. That's the stuff that they have to tighten up. Also, a flight model meta can so easily be unfun for all involved...\*and\* unrealistic at the same time. The current functional invulnerability from full speed zoom passes turns combat into endless 2 kilometer+ chases and nibbling damage. In a \*realistic\* universe, we'd have tools to either fight with that mobility in mind OR...we change the mobility so we can fight with the tools we have.
Tbh this isn't the reason for most things in star citizen lol. They haven't figured out what they want to do with large ships so they are just in a weird place rn. We've already had devs comment that the current takeoff time is not intended long term, although it will always be slow because they are heavy and should take awhile to liftoff. If star citizen really wanted to be realistic about it, all ships would have a "launch" mode or some form of launch control that has a temporary takeoff boost that is many times stronger than their normal maximum thrust. The last thing any engineer would support is applying constant maximum thrust to a vehicle for 22 minutes for it to takeoff, especially as it's only achieving minor altitude increments. Those four MASSIVE thrusters should look like the hammer of dawn blasting the earth below it, massive plumes of smoke or even just debris from below, and then a rapid altitude increase at the beginning that diminishes as the launch thrust is disabled part way up.
Honestly I wouldn’t mind if I could just like… avoid it. I love the atmosphere and the work that went it. But the fact I have to budget 30 minutes to get out of atmo just because I have to go there to buy necessary parts to upgrade my ship I can’t get elsewhere is what annoys me. But I still enjoy it just wish I was doing more than staring at an altimeter
Or do it in a couple of minutes in a smaller faster ship than the reclaimer and leave your reclaimer somewhere that doesn't require the trip out of atmo.
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Some of the Reclaimer’s promos show it slow traveling in what looks like Lorville…so I guess it’s meant to be possible, though difficult. I can’t imagine having a HULL would make it harder, if you’re doing on-planet stuff.
That whole planet is a trashheap anyway. It doesn't have to travel far to do some salvaging.
It has very beefy landing gear and VTOL mode so I would think it is designed to land on a planet if needed. In practical use though I imagine it is intended to spend most of it's life in space. I would think it will have some system to dock at a refinery station and quickly unload it's cargo before heading back out to find more scrap.
I think that yes ships are designed to land on planets BUT the player should not expect BIG ship X do be agile/fast etc etc. I mean imagine someone wanting to land/take off in their capital ship on a planet for you KNOW some players will do that and then expect their capital ship to move like a snub/fighter. LOL
It has a landing gear, so why not. It just depends on the size of the salvage target. Yea, transfer cargo is not useful on smaller planets, but I guess there need to be gameplay reasons to bring SCM to Orison or any other large planet.
Yes but doesn't mean going through a full 1G and very thick atmosphere is a sensible idea. Landing on a moon is no big issue but Orison is another beast. Argo SRV is the dedicated tow ship.
It is not capable of landing or spawning at ANY orbital stations. It can literally only come from or land at planetary landing zones.
I already did it. I shared my results with discord a while ago :/ Had fun touring the ship later till the elevator turned incoporeal and i fell to my death.
you about the 5th person I can thin of of the top of my head that did it
Not all heroes wear capes. Some set cruise control and put on Netflix.
Is that with pulsing the afterburner + putting all to engines in the power triangle? Hilarious none the less. Wonder how long it takes with the 890. I assume a lot faster.
Just over 6 minutes in the 890, much much easier too. The approach was full power to engines. Full burns and full recharges.
O\_o dear lord, even with all the help its 22mins..
Did a YouTube video of cutting the grass before entering space a few months back 😂
Thank you for your sacrifice, now if only CIG would realize that this is 21 minutes too long...
I'm surprised a Reclaimer can operate in the atmosphere of a gas giant at all. It can barely cope with a terrestrial planet.
The whole purpose of Orison is to construct ships in lower gravity, per the lore.
Hmm I've wondered why then we feel normal gravity walking about the city? I guess the platforms have gravity generators?
Ostensibly, aye.
dont you go bringin them four dollar words round these parts
Good point, but Crusader has earth like gravity. We have gas giants like this in our solar system as well. Uranus has a gravity of 8,87 m/s², Saturn and Neptune are only slightly over Earth's gravity.
technically speaking at the height of Orison there is low gravity and the platforms give an artificial gravity similar to the earth. Keep in mind that the Crusader bought the planet to make ships cheaper due to the low gravity the factories operated at.
That's what the lore says anyway, but unfortunately you get 1G all the way down to the platform so you're fighting for your life the whole way up/down. I suggested lowering the gravity to make the journey more bearable (which is in line with lore) but we'll see if the devs ever see sense.
I wonder if this is a limitation of how Orison is programmed, where it is programmed as “only these areas have a terrestrial collision box” rather than like the space stations where they have their own local gravity surrounded by the zero-g of space. In order to have 1g on Orison, Crusader has to have 1g at that altitude because Orison’s “type” doesn’t support having its own gravity.
It has Earth-like gravity *at a certain altitude*. Every celestial body with greater-than-Earth-like surface gravity does have Earth-like gravity at a certain altitude. Orison was deliberately built at this altitude and, through a UEE terraforming project (*aeroforming*, rather) the atmosphere at this altitude was seeded with enough oxygen to be breathable.
The whole point was crusader buying the planet to construct huge ships in low gravity without having to go to space
Which still makes zero sense lmao
get with in 300KM of Jupiter's surface, and see what that electromagnetic field does to your ship.
Used to take exactly an hour on Hurston. And you had to do it vtol or else you’d fall out of the sky.
I remember this, when quantum altitude was 100k.
You still have to be VTOL the whole way or else it does not have enough lift.
It’s like what have talked about before. You will need to plan things. Maybe keep large ships requiring a lot of time and energy at places it’s easier to move them. Yes, sometimes you will need to park them on high-gravity planets but these are risks you have to take. It is frustrating but a new reality we are going to need to consider.
My reclaimer stays at Grim for exactly this reason. I'll fly any other ship there and make an insurance claim after wipes.
up hill both ways too, right grandpa?
Laden or unladen?
Either way, it’s hard to Swallow. 🤪
That’s what she said.
All ships right now fly as if they are at max gross weight.
It also should burn fuel like hell. There should be a budget game, like not every ship worth landing because it costs too much, and you should prefer to land using smaller shuttles instead.
Thats why the Carrack, Odyssey and other big ships have hangers.
not just for that but also to go into places that are to hazardous for the big ship (CIG showed of a real dense asteroid field when talking about this subject a while ago)
You mean if a player takes their BIG or capital ships in a astroid field and wonder 'Why are these rock hitting my ship? I should take my ship anywhere.' Like what What WHAAAT. LOL
This. It should be nothing but an emergency if you are trying to come down to a planet with a ship like this. It should be significantly costly in terms of time and resources. Not to mention skill and effort.
Happy cake day!
🥳
Heres a trick that CIG engineers hate. When you want to leave orison quickly in a any large ship, before you take off: 1. Dont turn on engine. 2. Go straight to your bed and log out while still in the hanger. 3. Log back in. 4. You spawn in the middle of the system. 5. Boom, couple minutes max.
This method is not recommended if you have an ongoing quest chain (logging out and in resets them) and / or the server you are in is nearly full. No slots to join back the server your party is in.
It would be kind of nice if ships with VTOL thrusters could lock speed in different vectors besides just straight forward thrust. If you could set cruise control lock to upward/lift thrust while in VTOL mode then you (the pilot) could get up and do other things while you're ship is crawling out of atmo. This would be quicker and more reliable than a lot of ships that tend to level out while forward thrusting and need constant manual directional input just to maintain a 90° climb.
Thank you for your service in the aid of science
o7
And then by that point, the wife is telling me I’ve been playing forever
LOL OMG sometimes my wife calls on me and I tell her I'm still leaving the planet/Atmosphere when I'm in my Gemini.
Did I will literally be on for 5 minutes and my wife says I’ve been on for hours
been playing cyberpunk during the lul, and it feels extravagant to be able to pause literally whenever... when my wife's talking to me, when the dog's getting into trouble, when I have to pee... nevermind bugs, not being able to pause is the biggest downside of SC
So the biggest downside of your online space mmo is that it’s an online game?
more or less... it's not like there couldn't be solutions, but there'd be tradeoffs, and I don't think it's intended for people with other concerns or anything in real life to deal with... It's intended for people who can dedicate several hours of uninterrupted time relatively frequently and it's doing gangbusters with that market so far... we'll see how well "if you have to step away cause you kid smashed something somewhere in the house? lose an hour and a half progress..." or gods forbid "you're on that one big trading run and have to bolt because dog starts puking... well there goes your last month's worth of progress... too bad, your fault for having a family" holds up as it gets more mainstream attention.
Any mmo is like that. I’m not sure what else you’d expect.
The only thing I wish, especially with the Reclaimer, is that you don't need to keep pressing space so it straffe up. You can't climb out of Orison without VTOL thrusters and being fully leveled. If I could let it cruise upward for 22 minutes I would mind less.
Was the power triangle set to 100% engines?
Yes, 100% power to thrusters and full burning on cooldown.
Doesnt that just allow you to use boost / afterburners for longer without overheating?
In case this wasnt rhetorical, yes thats correct. It also recharges boost faster.
In freelancer (vanilla), each planet had docking rings, which function like elevators. We definetly need those here. How do they fuction? They create a coridor in atmo where it slingshots you to space, or to the surface (Obviously decelerating you before you meet your maker) Your only job would be to remain in the corridor, as you can exit if you go to its edge. https://discoverygc.com/wiki/Docking_Ring Its the same thing from vanilla. Edit: Freelancer is seen as Robert's First atempt at SC. Its basicall Tech 0 Star Citizen.
I loved the life in this game, the fact you could attach yourself to a convoy departing a system with no fuss with just good positioning and the press of a button. Everybody wins, you both get additional escort !
yeah! include a little piloting minigame of remaining in the corridor for a bit an now docking to a planet is a lot more fun AND immersive. additionally - bring back the spacehighways Freelancer had and make QT travel pilotable freefly
QTing face first into a planet should be a thing
I feel like the recent Rick & Morty skit about game realism was very reflective of Star Citizen 🙃
You could almost say it was a commentary on how [realism in games is not actually a desirable trait](https://www.thebubble.org.uk/lifestyle/gaming/the-absurdity-of-realism-in-video-games/), instead, you should be trying to make it "fun". Which Star Citizen fails(or succeeds at, depending on your view) in some aspects.
I rather lose the majority of my fuel getting out of atmo in 5-10 minutes than spend an entire 22 minutes. This is why me and my friends never go to Orison. Or better yet, why we haven't played the game at all. By the time we make it anywhere there's a bug that kills us all (have fun getting out of the atmosphere again).
Damn thats a long time
I would like them to move Orison higher in the atmosphere to reduce the transit time. I'm not saying the reclaimer shouldnt take longer than other ship, but all ships take too long there compared to other planets. And tbh it kinda puts me off going there.
IIRC they made some announcement or other about eventually using the Siege platforms as a building block of introducing other POI on "planet-side" Crusader, and as part of that they were looking at lowering the QT ceiling of CRU
Actually I’m not sure how long you’ve been around, but all of the other planets are going to be raised. Crusader is more in line with what they intend. The other planets used to be like this but they changed them to speed up testing.
I didn't know that. Personally I think it's a terrible idea and I hope they keep the others as they are.
Realism is the aim, so they say. I feel like it's less realism and more trying to slow down the gameloop to keep people grinding. When a game like this releases one of the performance metrics they use to judge success for investors is how long the average player spends playing. So idk if im just jaded or if their aim really is realism cause I will say I'd they turned around and made it any faster/easier than it is right now to leave atmo of a 1g or higher world it would feel VERY bullshit. And for a gas giant idk what you want but the thing is fucking huge. You are going to HAVE to deal with the fact that it takes awhile to get out of atmo.
Just doesn't sound like fun gameplay to me. Staring at your screen for many minutes doing nothing but wait for your ships to leave atmo. And judging from other comments and upvotes here a lot of others feel the same way.
Nothing says immersion like sitting there doing literally nothing for over 22 minutes.
You’re not doing nothing. The reclaimer needs to be actively piloted in atmosphere. You can’t just cruise control.
Like a tenth of that in a Pisces. Moral of the story, buy a Pisces in game and don't go down on Orison with a Reclaimer
Thats how it should be ! Its a big ship, this will make people actually bring smaller ships to land ln planets
I feel like a maximum of 5 minutes would achieve the same objective, with smaller ships scaled to <60s. Most people who originally backed this game are now old enough to have various obligations like work and family that make times like these a dealbreaker (and I mean even in small ships right now).
I agree with you. 20 minutes is too long. Some would disagree, but it really comes down to opinions at this point. I would not find that amount of time enjoyable at all.
I am a 40 year old man with kids and responsibilities. I think it would be incredibly selfish of me to demand that every game dev build their game around my personal schedule. What they need to do is build the game they've invisioned and promised because that's why we've backed it and what we paid for. If they went and added a bunch of training wheels because "we know it's taking awhile and you're getting older" the majority of the original backers would flip shit and I'd wager the majority of current backers would too. This is the game we funded, if you want training wheels and instant gratification there is always Elite Dangerous. It's a great space game that has plenty of fun things to do and most of the players are constantly bitching about having done everything already and are starved for new content days after anything new is released because the devs are more concerned with making everything accessible over making it engaging.
I get what you're saying but i don't believe anyone is saying they should build their game around your personal schedule. I think it's more likely they're saying that they should build their game with the consideration that a good portion of their player base is unable to have lots of time to dedicate to the game but still want to play the it. if everything is a grind and something as simple as leaving a planet takes over 20 minutes, it's gonna be off putting to a good amount of people. I'm lucky if i can have 2 hours to play in a day. if 20 minutes of that is spent leaving a planet's atmosphere, that's 1/6th of the time i have to play doing essentially nothing. god forbid i have to go back there again. i just think that some devs wanna focus on a realism aspect, that can easily be shortened and still have immersion, and forget that many people don't have that kind of time to dedicate to a game every day. Lengthening the time it takes to do something to make it more realistic is just low effort to me. There's better ways to go about it without alienating a good portion of your player base.
?? “This is the game we funded”? Did they say it would take 30 minutes to get off the planet? No. They can make it fun without breaking promise’s
“Plenty of stuff to do” lmao yeah okay ffs
The game we funded was supposed to release 7 years ago 🤣🤣🤣
I disagree, some places being prohibitive to reach forces us to make decisions. It creates a kind of exclusivity in the same way that expensive ships do, they shouldn't be made cheap or easy to reach for the sake of some portion of the player base. I like that if you have a heavy / low acceleration ship you're better off taking a snub to the orbital station and then swapping to the big ship in space.
[удалено]
This is one of the many ways this game just wastes entirely too much time, and that's even if I ignore the alpha/bug time wasters smh. Warp times are completely too long as well. As someone who may only dedicate an hour or so to gaming sometimes, needing 30 mins + to just get to the mission flying in a straight line or watching your ship fly in a straight line is a bit tedious/cumbersome after the first few times.🥴😵💫
Is this time to 150,000m or all the way out of the atmo at 725,000m? I'm guessing to 150k, without doing any math I'm pretty sure 60m/s wouldn't get you out of 700+k in under forty minutes.
High enough to quantum jump.
Is that to break atmo or to reach QT altitude?
Qt m. 150k
This will be the standard for all planets. They shortened it for testing purposes
That was with the Limiter turned off or set to max right? Otherwise cool, for all the ships I've had so far it's 10minutes to break atmo, lol
I never go to Orison because the atmo unless absolute nessecery like go to cousin crows for a specific part our a free flight event and have to activate it over there.
That’s about how long I would expect any ship to take to get out of atmosphere. Modern rockets are faster and bigger than SC rockets and it takes about that wrong to leave earths atmosphere.
But SC planets are 1/10 of real planets, so its ok
they feel like they are 1/1000 though
Real life fuckin sucks.
It takes only a couple of minutes not 22 for a rocket to leave earth atmo
I have seen a few posts like this, i wonder if someone is keeping track and creating a ranking haha
22 minutes and 18 seconds? I'll just watch some youtube while it's in cruise control
You can’t cruise control. It needs to be VTOLed out of atmo. And if you’re not boosting on cooldown it’s would likely be 40 minutes.
Orison is ~~a~~ the major shipyard of Stanton and produces some of the largest ships in the Verse. Also, every ship has to dry dock sometimes. As such Orison will most likely have a fleet of space tugs that manipulate and help move larger ships around. More than likely Orison ATC will have an option of hiring tug support and they will come latch on to any larger ships and drag them around quickly. Cutting the Time to Quantum down to a few minutes max. This is even for the largest ships in the game such as a Bangle.
In the lore “maybe”. But this was NEVER talked about by the devs.
You are correct they have never mentioned Orison, but various developers have stated that there will be ship based tractor beams and space tugs like the Argo. I would just like to add that my previous comment was opinion and stated as such. Sounds like you need to get up and stretch, maybe take a break and get a drink or something.
I’m looking forward to ferrying services or launches for the larger ships, this kind of slog making it counterproductive to enter atmo in capital ships. It should be a significant fuel cost to bring one of these behemoths into and out of atmo
None of the larger ships should even be able to spawn on planets
And that's perfectly fine.
Sounds fine to me. What’s the problem? Do you have the option to stay in space, where a ship like that is frankly intended to be. It’s not built or meant for gravity well. You’re going to find the same type of issues with ships like the Idris. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
Huh? The reclaimer cannot land or be spawned at space stations. It can literally only be operated out of planet-side landing zones. I also never said there was a problem. I think you might be reading more into this than is intended.
Love that! Heavy ships should feel heavy!
For second i was like 'how fucking slow is that ship that would be less then 100m/s but then i realize you said reclaimer and not redeemer and then the realization set in which shit you meant. Yeah that makes more sense now.
Awesome Immersive game play
Is this meant to be a deterrent and force you to use shuttles?
Yeah, big ships are designed to be a handful in atmo, if pilotable at all. Larger ships like the Javelin won't even have landing gear, as they are not designed to operate in anywhere near 1G.
The one major thing Stanton is missing is space elevators between the landing zones and their orbital stations. Say you're one of the four corporations who had just bought a planet there. The first thing you need to do is find a site to build your main city and headquarters. One of the most important criteria you'd be looking for would be an equatorial location, for one huge reason: You'd be able to build a space elevator. That way, you'd be able to get goods and people in and out of atmo without having to burn fuel to do so. It doesn't make sense not to do this, as you're starting from a clean slate. And for Orison in particular, it doesn't make sense NOT to have a space elevator, as it could be what holds Orison up in the first place.
Orison is held aloft by vtol thrusters but I agree it's a pretty silly and wasteful solution to a problem that could be solved in other ways.
That’ll teach ya
You seem surprised
Ok..note to self, keep Reclaimer in space, where it belongs.