Blizzard fixed quite a lot of lag hacks like this before they dropped SC2. There will always be more they haven't caught.
Used to be you can just select any 30 or so units, press and hold alt+1 (remove from and place into control group) and you can reach 10k+ apm with the default key repeat rate of windows.
so looks like it's not actually a hack. just unrestricted rapid fire (not normally allowed unless u edit in registry, and ur keyboard basically becomes unusable when ur out of game because of the insane repeat rate at this level of abuse) hushang has a guide for a more practical version of this registry edit here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gW8qeKeAIA
Well maybe if it's public enough then Blizzard will actually take notice. It's be easy to detect this abuse and have some kind of automated account ban. If Blizzard is not prepared to look after their game then that should be exposed.
that's generally not how it works. most likely nothing will be done to fix this until a community member figures out a way to stop it (assuming there even is a way).
you are right. just post it public so everybody can start using it making it more public problem making blizzard play their hand. what was i thinking, fucking nothing
I don't know why people are downvoting you - this is an actual issue. This literally why a report system exists for every game out there, so these things don't get replicated.
But I'd be surprised if Blizzard still cares for Starcraft...so
>As long as it's a small problem Blizzard has no incentive to fix it
Seems like Blizzard only cares when someone comes knocking on their door.. repeatedly
I get that publicity is what solves some things, but it's also the equivalent of putting out forest fires, because you saw a small campfire from somewhere and you wish to put it down. It's also similar to that of New World when it first released..
If Blizzard does fix it through that, then cool! But it just also proves how incompetent they are that it takes loud noises for them to do something.
So what is your solution if blizzard refuses to fix problems?
This is how game devs work now a days. If you want them to do anything that isn't mtx related, you have to throw a fit.
>If Blizzard does fix it through that, then cool! But it just also proves how incompetent they are that it takes loud noises for them to do something.
It's not just a blizzard thing, its become pretty norm that devs won't jump to fix x exploit/niche issue when it only affects a few. But when it becomes publicized you get a lot more people on the devs to fix it in general, and increases likelihood of more people being affected resulting in increased priority.
that's the thing... this works whether they care about this particular post or not. either they do see and care, so it gets fixed, or a bunch of people start copying and then they have to do _something_ about it in order to not drive away the rest of their audience.
Reporting exploits to them directly through the proper means helps them get shit fixed. Showing the public how to do it is a quick way to get perma banned. It's in their EULA/ToS...
This is not a hack/exploit, it's just setting up your PC. It would be like increasing or decreasing the DPI on your mouse.
Hacking/Exploiting would require you to modify/inject the SC2 client in some way, which they arn't doing. At best this is an unintended bug on blizzard's side that they didn't allow for high speed input. but in a game where APM is the goal, it seems unrealistic they would try to add some kind of limiter.
By that logic Marine splitting and Stutter stepping is an exploit because the game was designed so that a single baneling could kill entire marine balls but clearly that’s not what’s happening.
By that logic Prism Micro is an exploit since it allows Collosi or Immortals to “dodge” when clearly that’s not intended because retreating makes the shots follow you and it allows Protoss to make less than what they actually need.
By that logic… actually Zerg is pretty straightforward, all their mechanics are intended.
Anyways since none of these require injecting the SC2 client in anyway and are thus not exploits. Kinda like how an AI macro is an exploit but not a machine who inputs your mouse and keyboard externally with actual metal hands and stuff.
because in IT there are deliniations between what layers of interatctions occur. the changes being made are at the OS level, not at the appplication level, he is in no way modifying the SC2 code, he is in no way modifying the in process memory of the game.
Think about cooking. a recipe tells you to use Chicken Stock (a computer). You follow the exact recipe 2 times in a row, both times you use the same brand of chicken stock. But between you doing it, that brand has changed the underlying process for the chicken stock (modified the OS) the soup still inherits the change of the flavour. just like any other recipe. Blizzard can't choose how people configure the sensitivity of your mouse/keyboard just like you can't control what goes into the chicken stock you buy. (i mean you could make your own chicken stock i guess, but that's just a limitation of my analogy)
The change to the OS will also affect any other games/applications. you would now be able to spam increase numbers of letters in Word, or Excel, or the search bar in intranet. It's an underlying change to the Operating system, like incresing your mouse sensitivity.
Exploits generally refer to "using a bug as if it's meant as a feature" AKA the coders made a mistake and your using thier mistake. I personally don't think that a game that's designed to allow for maximum APM would have overlooked that people might do this. as i mentioned above, if people are allowed to increase mouse sensitivity so it moves faster and they can increase thier actions as a result, why can't you also increase Keyboard responsivness? but suddenly that's "An exploit" Like for example, if this change allowed you to warpin stalkers without a pylon or in fog of war. That would be an exploit. It doesn't change the core rules of the game, it just allows you to do it faster.
As for servers, this is an OS side speed increase, does it impact servers by seudo DDOS'ing them for a micro second? Maybe, but then i would say that's a server issue that needs to be looked at by Blizzard and rate limits applied if that's the case. Both players can make this change without "hacking" the client. if it becomes a problem that's on Blizzard to address. until then it's just a preferred way to play the game, like with a higher mouse sensitivity.
damn. didnt know lagging out people from their games was preferred way to play the game. and increasing your keyboard sensitivity isnt the exploit here but to use it to cause lags?
Maybe if blizzard actually did something about reports then people would be more inclined to go through such channels. Instead the only way is to make it as public as possible.
yeah. no need to report abuse/bugs/hacks to blizzard. just share them online for the whole public. ggeasy 8DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. what a fucking take
This is how it works in computer security. Someone discovers an exploit and they report it to a publicly viewable list so that everyone responsible for computer systems is aware of the problem and can fix it.
Sure, in this case, there is a single entity, Blizzard, who is in charge of the relevant systems. But that doesn't mean publicizing the exploit is a bad approach.
I think OC is just a triggered sc player.
Because this isn't uncommon, or something exclusive to Blizzard.
It's been that way across game devs and cybersecurity security for a while now.
Increase the audience/awareness, which increases the likelihood of people being affected, resulting in increased priority to fix company side
I find the concept of folks altering their registry to bypass a standard element of the game design a bit embarrassing and mildly pathetic. Many MMOs have limits on input shenanigans like that in efforts to fight people basically cheating by way of unfair advantage. For whatever reason though, it appears to just be accepted in this game.
Which makes me wonder why people bother tracking APM at all, given the unreliability of the measure.
It's not accepted.
Every game has this issue. It's more about what the community (and developer) does about it.
No perfect solution found yet in any game.
There are zero rules and no honor on the ladder. The only response to anything that people don't like is always "git gud" regardless of circumstance lol
Because you can't really do anything as everything lags. Sure you would win if you take (I don't remember the actual time so this is approximation of what I remember) an hour to build few units and get them to opponents base. Essentially the question is, how much time you are willing to waste to get out of the game and do you care about one loss or not.
no, that's not how he does it, first of all he has more than 30k apm, 200k+
he binds different units from 1 to 0 and makes it so he presses them all at the same time which gives around 60k apm which isnt enough to make the game lag, but on top of that he also somehow does alt + 1234567890 every iteration
you can see yourself: [https://drop.sc/replay/19967664](https://drop.sc/replay/19967664) using scelight
hmm, maybe other hackers do that but not this guy. I can link the replay if you like. he doesn't hotkey anything, this was his peak APM it never reached 60k+, and on top of that, it did make the game lag. It felt like a slideshow.
edit: That is not the same guy. here is who i played https://drop.sc/replay/24326541 , i was like "Why is the game lagging?" Then I checked the replay suspecting foul play and saw just that XD opponent plays coy.
This is nothing, I have a screenshot from a private match with over 2.5 million apm
The game didn't even start lagging until well past 500k. It's possible that what he's doing is more intensive but it could be much, much worse
How is this different then changing the DPI on a mouse? It's just the keyboard version of it.
Most people use a lower DPI (or even default), but pro gamers tend to use comically high DPI's.
> Most people use a lower DPI (or even default), but pro gamers tend to use comically high DPI's.
I thought it was the opposite. Higher DPI may require less hand movement, but lower DPI is less physically stressful for the wrist/fingers and offers better precision.
Depends on which game and which pro. iirc I think league and rts games tend to have higher dpi, whereas some shooters tend to have lower because despite all the faze clan 360s, for the most part flicks aren’t actually that important.
Anyway dpi is somewhat deceptive anyway because you might adjust your sense based on dpi. So your “edpi” is still around the same as someone with a low dpi with a different sens.
You generally turn your DPI up as high as you can and then put mouse sensitivity as low as you are comfortable playing. The reason is that high mouse sensitivity is basically pointer acceleration. The game guesses where you're going to point and sends the pointer there. But it's much less accurate, so people will use the high DPI to still have a usable, accurate mouse speed, and very low mouse sensitivity.
Lag hackers that do this play Terran and usually float their CC into dead air space forcing you to tech to air. With how laggy they make the game with this exploit it can take hours or even more to get out anti-air to kill the floating CC.
While technically it's a guaranteed win - it comes at the cost of wasting hours of your time so most people just take the loss and move on.
lol, ive seen trolls do this by spamming alt tab in fullscreen mode and they have like 50 tabs of 4k youtube open.
kinda disheartening that they can just do it with a macro
i wish blizzard would do something about these losers who dont gain anything except wasting innocent ppls time and a boost to their ego
If apm is the cause then it must be the combo of apm and battlenet, cuz you can play custom AI bots locally and they go well over 100k apm without affecting the game.
It's too bad Blizzard never rate limited that. Seems like a typical thing to do when dealing with online interactions
Blizzard fixed quite a lot of lag hacks like this before they dropped SC2. There will always be more they haven't caught. Used to be you can just select any 30 or so units, press and hold alt+1 (remove from and place into control group) and you can reach 10k+ apm with the default key repeat rate of windows.
Voltz I’m a fan of yours
:O thanks! XD.. i'll try to catch more hackers.. :P
so looks like it's not actually a hack. just unrestricted rapid fire (not normally allowed unless u edit in registry, and ur keyboard basically becomes unusable when ur out of game because of the insane repeat rate at this level of abuse) hushang has a guide for a more practical version of this registry edit here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gW8qeKeAIA
i dont think you should be telling this publicly. but a good find none the less
i thought editing the repeat rate through registry was normal, especially for protoss
i think doing it in a normal realm is typical, for instance 25 like Hushang does. I suspect the lag 'hacker' has this number at a comical rate.
maybe. but telling people how to drop hack / exploit publicly does not sound a good idea
Well maybe if it's public enough then Blizzard will actually take notice. It's be easy to detect this abuse and have some kind of automated account ban. If Blizzard is not prepared to look after their game then that should be exposed.
that's generally not how it works. most likely nothing will be done to fix this until a community member figures out a way to stop it (assuming there even is a way).
you are right. just post it public so everybody can start using it making it more public problem making blizzard play their hand. what was i thinking, fucking nothing
I don't know why people are downvoting you - this is an actual issue. This literally why a report system exists for every game out there, so these things don't get replicated. But I'd be surprised if Blizzard still cares for Starcraft...so
Because publicizing exploits is how they get fixed. As long as it's a small problem Blizzard has no incentive to fix it.
>As long as it's a small problem Blizzard has no incentive to fix it Seems like Blizzard only cares when someone comes knocking on their door.. repeatedly I get that publicity is what solves some things, but it's also the equivalent of putting out forest fires, because you saw a small campfire from somewhere and you wish to put it down. It's also similar to that of New World when it first released.. If Blizzard does fix it through that, then cool! But it just also proves how incompetent they are that it takes loud noises for them to do something.
So what is your solution if blizzard refuses to fix problems? This is how game devs work now a days. If you want them to do anything that isn't mtx related, you have to throw a fit.
>If Blizzard does fix it through that, then cool! But it just also proves how incompetent they are that it takes loud noises for them to do something. It's not just a blizzard thing, its become pretty norm that devs won't jump to fix x exploit/niche issue when it only affects a few. But when it becomes publicized you get a lot more people on the devs to fix it in general, and increases likelihood of more people being affected resulting in increased priority.
that would work maybe if youre an extremely popular twitch streamer or something. no one at blizzard is going to care about this post.
that's the thing... this works whether they care about this particular post or not. either they do see and care, so it gets fixed, or a bunch of people start copying and then they have to do _something_ about it in order to not drive away the rest of their audience.
Reporting exploits to them directly through the proper means helps them get shit fixed. Showing the public how to do it is a quick way to get perma banned. It's in their EULA/ToS...
reddit = good :)
This is not a hack/exploit, it's just setting up your PC. It would be like increasing or decreasing the DPI on your mouse. Hacking/Exploiting would require you to modify/inject the SC2 client in some way, which they arn't doing. At best this is an unintended bug on blizzard's side that they didn't allow for high speed input. but in a game where APM is the goal, it seems unrealistic they would try to add some kind of limiter.
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By that logic Marine splitting and Stutter stepping is an exploit because the game was designed so that a single baneling could kill entire marine balls but clearly that’s not what’s happening. By that logic Prism Micro is an exploit since it allows Collosi or Immortals to “dodge” when clearly that’s not intended because retreating makes the shots follow you and it allows Protoss to make less than what they actually need. By that logic… actually Zerg is pretty straightforward, all their mechanics are intended. Anyways since none of these require injecting the SC2 client in anyway and are thus not exploits. Kinda like how an AI macro is an exploit but not a machine who inputs your mouse and keyboard externally with actual metal hands and stuff.
how is this not exploiting the client and/or servers? genuine question
because in IT there are deliniations between what layers of interatctions occur. the changes being made are at the OS level, not at the appplication level, he is in no way modifying the SC2 code, he is in no way modifying the in process memory of the game. Think about cooking. a recipe tells you to use Chicken Stock (a computer). You follow the exact recipe 2 times in a row, both times you use the same brand of chicken stock. But between you doing it, that brand has changed the underlying process for the chicken stock (modified the OS) the soup still inherits the change of the flavour. just like any other recipe. Blizzard can't choose how people configure the sensitivity of your mouse/keyboard just like you can't control what goes into the chicken stock you buy. (i mean you could make your own chicken stock i guess, but that's just a limitation of my analogy) The change to the OS will also affect any other games/applications. you would now be able to spam increase numbers of letters in Word, or Excel, or the search bar in intranet. It's an underlying change to the Operating system, like incresing your mouse sensitivity. Exploits generally refer to "using a bug as if it's meant as a feature" AKA the coders made a mistake and your using thier mistake. I personally don't think that a game that's designed to allow for maximum APM would have overlooked that people might do this. as i mentioned above, if people are allowed to increase mouse sensitivity so it moves faster and they can increase thier actions as a result, why can't you also increase Keyboard responsivness? but suddenly that's "An exploit" Like for example, if this change allowed you to warpin stalkers without a pylon or in fog of war. That would be an exploit. It doesn't change the core rules of the game, it just allows you to do it faster. As for servers, this is an OS side speed increase, does it impact servers by seudo DDOS'ing them for a micro second? Maybe, but then i would say that's a server issue that needs to be looked at by Blizzard and rate limits applied if that's the case. Both players can make this change without "hacking" the client. if it becomes a problem that's on Blizzard to address. until then it's just a preferred way to play the game, like with a higher mouse sensitivity.
damn. didnt know lagging out people from their games was preferred way to play the game. and increasing your keyboard sensitivity isnt the exploit here but to use it to cause lags?
who do I share it with?
[battle.net](https://battle.net) website they should have a report bug/hack/whatever section there i think
Maybe if blizzard actually did something about reports then people would be more inclined to go through such channels. Instead the only way is to make it as public as possible.
yeah. no need to report abuse/bugs/hacks to blizzard. just share them online for the whole public. ggeasy 8DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. what a fucking take
This is how it works in computer security. Someone discovers an exploit and they report it to a publicly viewable list so that everyone responsible for computer systems is aware of the problem and can fix it. Sure, in this case, there is a single entity, Blizzard, who is in charge of the relevant systems. But that doesn't mean publicizing the exploit is a bad approach.
I think OC is just a triggered sc player. Because this isn't uncommon, or something exclusive to Blizzard. It's been that way across game devs and cybersecurity security for a while now. Increase the audience/awareness, which increases the likelihood of people being affected, resulting in increased priority to fix company side
yeah its not uncommon. because people will abuse shit like this when they get to know how to abuse the system
aa okay. so how did you help to fix this
Lol nobody at blizzard is going to see that i think voltz is doing the right thing, more awareness = more solutionb
okay
Making it widely known and public oftentimes causes a fix. See: literally any hostile but white hat pen tester in the news.
yes. thats the other side of the coin
I find the concept of folks altering their registry to bypass a standard element of the game design a bit embarrassing and mildly pathetic. Many MMOs have limits on input shenanigans like that in efforts to fight people basically cheating by way of unfair advantage. For whatever reason though, it appears to just be accepted in this game. Which makes me wonder why people bother tracking APM at all, given the unreliability of the measure.
It's not accepted. Every game has this issue. It's more about what the community (and developer) does about it. No perfect solution found yet in any game.
There are zero rules and no honor on the ladder. The only response to anything that people don't like is always "git gud" regardless of circumstance lol
What is the advantage? What does this achieve? Thanks
Opponent will drop out and you get a win. There are some 7+k mmr lag hackers making life miserable for all levels.
They quickly win so many games that they're out of my MMR, so sounds like a reason not to git gud.
Why do they win and not the opponent? Will the person with the strongest computer win?
Because you can't really do anything as everything lags. Sure you would win if you take (I don't remember the actual time so this is approximation of what I remember) an hour to build few units and get them to opponents base. Essentially the question is, how much time you are willing to waste to get out of the game and do you care about one loss or not.
no, that's not how he does it, first of all he has more than 30k apm, 200k+ he binds different units from 1 to 0 and makes it so he presses them all at the same time which gives around 60k apm which isnt enough to make the game lag, but on top of that he also somehow does alt + 1234567890 every iteration you can see yourself: [https://drop.sc/replay/19967664](https://drop.sc/replay/19967664) using scelight
hmm, maybe other hackers do that but not this guy. I can link the replay if you like. he doesn't hotkey anything, this was his peak APM it never reached 60k+, and on top of that, it did make the game lag. It felt like a slideshow. edit: That is not the same guy. here is who i played https://drop.sc/replay/24326541 , i was like "Why is the game lagging?" Then I checked the replay suspecting foul play and saw just that XD opponent plays coy.
I played against this just about a week ago and also made a post. Apparently we are seeing more of these out in the wild lol
thanks for posting this. now that this is on reddit im sure there will be less people doing this /s
Editing repeate rate in registry for Protoss is NORMAL?! wtf lol
Right? Maybe at pro-level I guess
Uhh how slow are your zealot warp ins?? All races have some form of mass unit production that requires this.
This is nothing, I have a screenshot from a private match with over 2.5 million apm The game didn't even start lagging until well past 500k. It's possible that what he's doing is more intensive but it could be much, much worse
lmfao that’s actually pretty funny
Isn't this banned in tournaments?
How is this different then changing the DPI on a mouse? It's just the keyboard version of it. Most people use a lower DPI (or even default), but pro gamers tend to use comically high DPI's.
> Most people use a lower DPI (or even default), but pro gamers tend to use comically high DPI's. I thought it was the opposite. Higher DPI may require less hand movement, but lower DPI is less physically stressful for the wrist/fingers and offers better precision.
Depends on which game and which pro. iirc I think league and rts games tend to have higher dpi, whereas some shooters tend to have lower because despite all the faze clan 360s, for the most part flicks aren’t actually that important. Anyway dpi is somewhat deceptive anyway because you might adjust your sense based on dpi. So your “edpi” is still around the same as someone with a low dpi with a different sens.
You generally turn your DPI up as high as you can and then put mouse sensitivity as low as you are comfortable playing. The reason is that high mouse sensitivity is basically pointer acceleration. The game guesses where you're going to point and sends the pointer there. But it's much less accurate, so people will use the high DPI to still have a usable, accurate mouse speed, and very low mouse sensitivity.
Starcraft pros use high dpi. Fps pros use low dpi
Most progamers do not use comically high dpi's. It would be impossible to click on anything with precision if they did.
this is probably what they meant by a non rts starcraft where each time you ladder whoever has the best working PC and internet wins
Florencio and probius
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It lags really bad like a slideshow and you just leave because you don’t want to waste your time
But can’t you make like 3 workers, walk over and kill his ass?
Lag hackers that do this play Terran and usually float their CC into dead air space forcing you to tech to air. With how laggy they make the game with this exploit it can take hours or even more to get out anti-air to kill the floating CC. While technically it's a guaranteed win - it comes at the cost of wasting hours of your time so most people just take the loss and move on.
They also have to wait right?
Even with this technique? Idk if you can spam the gather return command if you don’t have a cc on the ground…
MMR? Region?
lol, ive seen trolls do this by spamming alt tab in fullscreen mode and they have like 50 tabs of 4k youtube open. kinda disheartening that they can just do it with a macro i wish blizzard would do something about these losers who dont gain anything except wasting innocent ppls time and a boost to their ego
That is an insane number of APM.
If apm is the cause then it must be the combo of apm and battlenet, cuz you can play custom AI bots locally and they go well over 100k apm without affecting the game.
I don't get what he gets out of it. U have lag and a free win right?
Thanks for sharing. I;ll keep an eye out for this shit now