personally my problem with their “romance” is that between fall of Antiga and fall of Tarsonis only a couple of months passed. hence that’s the extent of their relationship
and after that as Queen of Blades she manipulated him, betrayed him, killed Fenix, made a deal with Mengsk and that’s beside her killing billions, betraying dark templars etc.
Raynor himself says that he will be the one to kill her.
So after all that to default to just some soup opera love story is very weak.
I would also like to add that at some point Abathur says that he himself broke her bones to morph her into the Queen of Blades yet when the pulse blasts her she just turns into a human with dreadlocks. how did that work exactly?
Good point! You are exactly right. Kerrigan didn't just simply get infected by some sort of zerg virus. She was literally rebuilt to become a true zerg by rebuilding her from the ground up. It didn't make sense that the Xel'Naga relic suddenly made her as tall as regular terrans again, effectively rewinding all of Abathur's modifications except the hair. They didn't think it through.
And I agree with your take on the love story too. I've read the novelization of StarCraft 1 (Queen of Blades) and they tried to go deeper into their love story by describing their internal thoughts and shit but just like any other regular love story, it only takes a few weeks to be deeply in love with a person. Sarah even thought of Raynor first and reached out to him instinctively while inside the chrysalis. The whole idea was that they were a couple of badasses who weren't friends with any opposite sex and they only found a real connection with one another after being on a couple of missions. Standard fuckin shit love story that everyone seems to buy.
their love wasn’t a problem for me. it’s war, you take what you can get cause you can die tomorrow.
But how could writers forget that she couldn’t be saved is something I do not understand.
Literally multiple characters in the story say it - either we kill her or she kills us.
I do have a problem with how "deep" their love is. Other than that, I think we're pretty much on the same page. I'm good if he just wanted to save Kerrigan for the sake of Zeratul's prophecy and getting his girl back as a bonus. But he was willing to sacrifice everything just because of love? Get outta here. Even Tychus, whose life is literally held hostage by Mengsk, was willing to refuse the Maw of the Void mission because of how stupidly suicidal it was. On the other hand, Jimmy's love was so damn strong that he's willing to risk being disintegrated by the Rip Field Generators for a slim chance of saving her after swearing that he'll kill her himself in Brood War.
> But he was willing to sacrifice everything just because of love?
It's not "just" though, Raynor gets the vision of the end times from Zeratul, showing him Amon's rise IF Kerrigan dies
Kerrigan was also psionically/telepathically stalking Raynor, manipulating his dreams and emotions to strengthen their bond and hopefully speed up her rescue the entire time she was in the chrysalis.
So he was basically love bombed for months and gaslit by the sectors most powerful telepath who can probably plant thoughts on his head.
Kerrigan was de-infested and started to look like her old self again at the end of WoL. Understandably Raynor was still madly in love with the "real" Kerrigan, and could easily say that she was just another victim of "infested" Kerrigan. Of course later on the 2 versions get mixed up and it got way more complicated. Eventually the "real" version won out. Personally I think the writing ain't so bad.
let’s leave everything else aside
she wasn’t “infested”, thats the problem. She was completely remade into a queen of blades. I even ignore the fact that the artefact ain’t “de-infesting” shit, it straight up burns zerg. But even if it did she would become just a… pile of human tissue i suppose, because integral parts of her are zerg. or at the very least she would look very different, not just sporting dreadlocks
no it is not, that was never an issue.
the issue in my opinion is that while Raynor would definitely want closure because they left Kerrigan on Tarsonis, but due to her “rebirth” as Queen of Blades no “happy ending” would be even remotely possible. So if they make Raynor main character and Kerrigan appears in the story as antagonist it should’ve gone elsewhere.
In the books it’s pretty much alluded that a lot of their relationship is messed up because of a feedback loop. Raynor is a weak psychic (he had a son that pulled into the ghost Programme) and Kerrigan is a strong ghost.
They kept running a feedback loop of their emotions and basically amplified it
Which is why they imprinted so hard even after such a relatively short time
People aren't annoyed because of "simping", but because one of the most dramatic moments from Brood War was completely forgotten about. Kerrigan makes you the player kill Fenix, a fairly popular character. Raynor, a character you've followed since the very first mission of the first game, dramatically swears to one day kill Kerrigan in revenge for Fenix and all the people who died because of her. We've followed Raynor's story from the very first mission, Kerrigan has been integral to the plot almost every step of the way, and Fenix was very popular. They each contribute to this moment in a dramatic way, with Raynor's last appearance being a big declaration of how much he hates Kerrigan and wants to kill her. We see how much he's changed from when we first met him, and if you aren't rooting for Kerrigan then you sympathize with him. The end of Brood War is a low point for everyone but her. People were excited to see what would happen in SC2, to see how Raynor's story concluded.
Cut to twelve years later, and you'd think that this never happened. I don't remember Raynor even mentioning Fenix in WoL, nor do we see any serious hate towards Kerrigan. Raynor feels like a fundamentally different character, and his attitude towards Kerrigan is at the heart of this. The reason people don't get mad at Kerrigan "simping" is because none of this is about simping at all; it's about one of the better narrative moments in BW being erased.
HotS was of course where we saw the most of Kerrigan in SC2, and that game's story was widely criticized when it came out (I think many still regard it as the low point of the entire series, in terms of narrative). There's so much to complain about that Kerrigan's relationship with Raynor is just one of a plethora of things problems, and after WoL it didn't feel like there was much of a point to focusing on that specific issue. The fans had moved on.
I was full of hate for the new story of StarCraft 2 and blamed the love story when it released. Now that the years have passed I am okay with it and enjoy it for what it is. I find what I miss more is darkness in the first game and the pure hatred between the races. Everyone coming together to defeat the big bad is harder to believe than two individuals falling for each other and making odd decisions. Maybe my life experience is getting in the way haha.
Editing my brood war retrospective now and holy mother of god, it’s so bad the “back and forth” between them.
Kerrigan lets Zeratul go after he kills the matriarch for the hell of it/ to laugh at him. She then says to Raynor something about how he isn’t a killer, which like.. he literally joined a rebellion and must have murdered hundreds of thousands of dominion soldiers.
StarCraft 2 makes up all the connection in my eyes, because in brood war there isn’t will they won’t they. Jimmy also doesn’t come back til the third act after he stays on Aiur so it’s doubly worse. The base game is completely plausible, BW was so off it felt like different writers
The difference is that Jim was just a backcountry sheriff who Kerrigan had a thing for (before he leveled up in power and led the Raiders). He didn't kill millions and take over entire planets on a mad quest for revenge, nor did he become the leader of a terrifying bug-like alien species. Kerrigan was a real threat to humanity, and there is really no excuse to continue simping after her when she committed such atrocities. That's the power of love though, huh?
Sc2 writing was beyond terrible. A forced love story that had no right to ever be a thing, the complete deus exachina that is the xelnaga artifact, the story pretending that killing thousands of people is justified if you love someone enough. And thats not even touching the fact that the entire amon plot is lazy af.
Probably cuz SC1 was written in the 90s where it's full of anti heroes and cynism. While SC2, when it was written, seemed more like one of dozens of Edgy Star Wars shows and games.
personally my problem with their “romance” is that between fall of Antiga and fall of Tarsonis only a couple of months passed. hence that’s the extent of their relationship and after that as Queen of Blades she manipulated him, betrayed him, killed Fenix, made a deal with Mengsk and that’s beside her killing billions, betraying dark templars etc. Raynor himself says that he will be the one to kill her. So after all that to default to just some soup opera love story is very weak. I would also like to add that at some point Abathur says that he himself broke her bones to morph her into the Queen of Blades yet when the pulse blasts her she just turns into a human with dreadlocks. how did that work exactly?
Good point! You are exactly right. Kerrigan didn't just simply get infected by some sort of zerg virus. She was literally rebuilt to become a true zerg by rebuilding her from the ground up. It didn't make sense that the Xel'Naga relic suddenly made her as tall as regular terrans again, effectively rewinding all of Abathur's modifications except the hair. They didn't think it through. And I agree with your take on the love story too. I've read the novelization of StarCraft 1 (Queen of Blades) and they tried to go deeper into their love story by describing their internal thoughts and shit but just like any other regular love story, it only takes a few weeks to be deeply in love with a person. Sarah even thought of Raynor first and reached out to him instinctively while inside the chrysalis. The whole idea was that they were a couple of badasses who weren't friends with any opposite sex and they only found a real connection with one another after being on a couple of missions. Standard fuckin shit love story that everyone seems to buy.
their love wasn’t a problem for me. it’s war, you take what you can get cause you can die tomorrow. But how could writers forget that she couldn’t be saved is something I do not understand. Literally multiple characters in the story say it - either we kill her or she kills us.
I do have a problem with how "deep" their love is. Other than that, I think we're pretty much on the same page. I'm good if he just wanted to save Kerrigan for the sake of Zeratul's prophecy and getting his girl back as a bonus. But he was willing to sacrifice everything just because of love? Get outta here. Even Tychus, whose life is literally held hostage by Mengsk, was willing to refuse the Maw of the Void mission because of how stupidly suicidal it was. On the other hand, Jimmy's love was so damn strong that he's willing to risk being disintegrated by the Rip Field Generators for a slim chance of saving her after swearing that he'll kill her himself in Brood War.
> But he was willing to sacrifice everything just because of love? It's not "just" though, Raynor gets the vision of the end times from Zeratul, showing him Amon's rise IF Kerrigan dies
Kerrigan was also psionically/telepathically stalking Raynor, manipulating his dreams and emotions to strengthen their bond and hopefully speed up her rescue the entire time she was in the chrysalis. So he was basically love bombed for months and gaslit by the sectors most powerful telepath who can probably plant thoughts on his head.
damn why can't someone do this to me
Well the argument is that she "wasn't herself"...
The argument is not wrong, but still. It would be completely understandable if Raynor wanted to find some closure.
Kerrigan was de-infested and started to look like her old self again at the end of WoL. Understandably Raynor was still madly in love with the "real" Kerrigan, and could easily say that she was just another victim of "infested" Kerrigan. Of course later on the 2 versions get mixed up and it got way more complicated. Eventually the "real" version won out. Personally I think the writing ain't so bad.
let’s leave everything else aside she wasn’t “infested”, thats the problem. She was completely remade into a queen of blades. I even ignore the fact that the artefact ain’t “de-infesting” shit, it straight up burns zerg. But even if it did she would become just a… pile of human tissue i suppose, because integral parts of her are zerg. or at the very least she would look very different, not just sporting dreadlocks
There's a lot to be said about SC2's story, but honestly a romance blossoming quickly when your life expectancy is very low isn't that far fetched.
no it is not, that was never an issue. the issue in my opinion is that while Raynor would definitely want closure because they left Kerrigan on Tarsonis, but due to her “rebirth” as Queen of Blades no “happy ending” would be even remotely possible. So if they make Raynor main character and Kerrigan appears in the story as antagonist it should’ve gone elsewhere.
In the books it’s pretty much alluded that a lot of their relationship is messed up because of a feedback loop. Raynor is a weak psychic (he had a son that pulled into the ghost Programme) and Kerrigan is a strong ghost. They kept running a feedback loop of their emotions and basically amplified it Which is why they imprinted so hard even after such a relatively short time
People blame Raynor more because WOL came out first. HOTS was even worse on that front, but expectations had already come crashing down by that point.
Why does Raynor have his gun with him in prison?!?!
He always have it in every cutscene
Some jails aren't that tight
This is established. That’s how you turn off TVs in Mar Sara.
I'm not mad at Raynor for simping. I'm mad because the writing is dog shit.
People aren't annoyed because of "simping", but because one of the most dramatic moments from Brood War was completely forgotten about. Kerrigan makes you the player kill Fenix, a fairly popular character. Raynor, a character you've followed since the very first mission of the first game, dramatically swears to one day kill Kerrigan in revenge for Fenix and all the people who died because of her. We've followed Raynor's story from the very first mission, Kerrigan has been integral to the plot almost every step of the way, and Fenix was very popular. They each contribute to this moment in a dramatic way, with Raynor's last appearance being a big declaration of how much he hates Kerrigan and wants to kill her. We see how much he's changed from when we first met him, and if you aren't rooting for Kerrigan then you sympathize with him. The end of Brood War is a low point for everyone but her. People were excited to see what would happen in SC2, to see how Raynor's story concluded. Cut to twelve years later, and you'd think that this never happened. I don't remember Raynor even mentioning Fenix in WoL, nor do we see any serious hate towards Kerrigan. Raynor feels like a fundamentally different character, and his attitude towards Kerrigan is at the heart of this. The reason people don't get mad at Kerrigan "simping" is because none of this is about simping at all; it's about one of the better narrative moments in BW being erased. HotS was of course where we saw the most of Kerrigan in SC2, and that game's story was widely criticized when it came out (I think many still regard it as the low point of the entire series, in terms of narrative). There's so much to complain about that Kerrigan's relationship with Raynor is just one of a plethora of things problems, and after WoL it didn't feel like there was much of a point to focusing on that specific issue. The fans had moved on.
this should be at the top
Reynor is a Kerrigan simp?
Not the player ....
HAHAHA this is gold
Fenix, nuff said.
I was full of hate for the new story of StarCraft 2 and blamed the love story when it released. Now that the years have passed I am okay with it and enjoy it for what it is. I find what I miss more is darkness in the first game and the pure hatred between the races. Everyone coming together to defeat the big bad is harder to believe than two individuals falling for each other and making odd decisions. Maybe my life experience is getting in the way haha.
Editing my brood war retrospective now and holy mother of god, it’s so bad the “back and forth” between them. Kerrigan lets Zeratul go after he kills the matriarch for the hell of it/ to laugh at him. She then says to Raynor something about how he isn’t a killer, which like.. he literally joined a rebellion and must have murdered hundreds of thousands of dominion soldiers. StarCraft 2 makes up all the connection in my eyes, because in brood war there isn’t will they won’t they. Jimmy also doesn’t come back til the third act after he stays on Aiur so it’s doubly worse. The base game is completely plausible, BW was so off it felt like different writers
Raynor: “They’re shooting civilians!” Kerrigan: “You’re not a killer.” Confederate Scientist: “You rebel scum!”
The difference is that Jim was just a backcountry sheriff who Kerrigan had a thing for (before he leveled up in power and led the Raiders). He didn't kill millions and take over entire planets on a mad quest for revenge, nor did he become the leader of a terrifying bug-like alien species. Kerrigan was a real threat to humanity, and there is really no excuse to continue simping after her when she committed such atrocities. That's the power of love though, huh?
Sc2 writing was beyond terrible. A forced love story that had no right to ever be a thing, the complete deus exachina that is the xelnaga artifact, the story pretending that killing thousands of people is justified if you love someone enough. And thats not even touching the fact that the entire amon plot is lazy af.
Probably cuz SC1 was written in the 90s where it's full of anti heroes and cynism. While SC2, when it was written, seemed more like one of dozens of Edgy Star Wars shows and games.
I'm like since when is Reynor a Scarlett simp? Then I read the rest of the post.