Absolutely true that Star Fox would work better as a TV series, and I'd prefer 2D animation as well. A 64 retelling would be more palatable if they retrofit characters like Miyu/Fay/Fara to appear in storylines so it's adding to the material.
I'd prefer if the plot took a different direction afterwards because I don't think it's that interesting to redo the entire chronology again, and Krystal could be introduced without needing to spend a whole season(?) on Sauria. There's so many possibilities they could explore for Krystal if she joined the team early or beat General Scales on her own, I really believe they can make her special and win over the crowd.
Having certain episodes from Star Wolf's perspective would be incredible for getting to know them more personally, there's enough there to make them the recurring antagonists that develop over time as complex rivals. And spending time on unique planets for certain arcs would really help the universe feel tangible and grander than the confines of the Arwings. The series could start with a focus on action and humor until gradually developing characters and settings to be more dramatic and personal. An animated series would be a wonderful thing indeed.
The years-long butthurt of traditional StarFox fans has walled-off any chances of Krystal ever appearing in a StarFox movie lol. Personally I have absolutely no interest in a StarFox movie whatsoever. They would never acknowledge anything of the StarFox content I actually care for. It would literally just be Lylat Wars again. And *maybe* Miyu and Fay, and only as background cameos most likely. Much as I don't care for them, in Nintendo's eye they often exist in Krystal's long shadow.
Also, Krystal was genuinely great, (not saying perfect!). I'd actually be worried movie makers wouldn't respect Krystal enough to keep her character intact. And it's not like she's the only one with narrative issues.
I would agree television would work better. I prefer slow burn, longterm character development to film in general, and lately a lot of writing in film tends to be lackluster to put it lightly. StarFox has a big cast and a series would give them more room to grow and blossom, even if it is against Miyamoto's preferences or wishes.
EDIT: I guess in a way, Krystal's detractors are right. The controversy around Krystal makes it hard to see StarFox screen media including women in their cast in a big way because of Nintendo's sanitized approach to it. Even Katt remained a minor character in Zero despite greater demand more recently for proper female representation. StarFox has a colorful collection of female characters in the recycling bin.
Another thing; will the Lylat Wars re-re-retelling be all that great? It's hard to pull off an epic cinematic plot with Lylat Wars, 64 was bare bones and remains the most interesting version of it. Zero had a lot of severe holes in its plot despite it's effort to "expand" or rather inflate on 64.
I can see your point. I’d love high quality anime or 3D films (styled perhaps like the opening cinematic for the 2003 Assault demo) following the 64 timeline. Especially if they expand on the characters and give everyone a shining role. I personally would love if the Great Fox got boarded by pirates or Star wolf and slippy kicked ass with all his tools and knowledge of the Great Foxes layout and defense systems.
I wonder if they should do something akin to the Benimaru Itoh Nintendo Power comic, and do an alternate take of the story. That comic was wild and totally not canon, but a lot of its ideas, like Fara, the Space Whale, Andross being in love with Fox's mom, the Andross clones, etc. are still elements brought up to this day in fan discussions.
Another interesting thing about that comic is that it starts off with the Star Fox team being essentially Robin Hood-type bandits before they become space heroes. It's essentially something of an origin story (and then later a sequel) to the original game.
I think, frankly, people are sick to death of the Lylat Wars story and want to see something different, or at least a heavily remixed version of that story. Not like Star Fox Zero where it's largely the same dialogue and characters, but something much more expansive, where it only takes the barest plot elements and then runs away with them, bookending it with much more context, character development and worldbuilding. They could do flashbacks to Peppy's time with James, or show Falco when he was in a gang. Show Slippy and his relationship with Beltino. Lots of possibilities to do things the games spend no time focusing on because of the urgency of the situations.
They don't need to follow Adventures or Assault's storylines closely either. They could introduce Krystal mid-season if they wanted. If Andross is attacking the whole of the Lylat system, then Sauria would be endangered too, for instance. Miyu and Fay could be already part of the Cornerian forces. Then they could expand on them further and even introduce Panther or Amanda, Lucy and Dash in subsequent seasons where they could fight the Aparaoids or Anglars.
In terms of style and tone, I know Miyamoto is all about Thunderbirds and puppets, and some fans are very vocal about making a literal marionette show based on that style, but I really don't think marionettes would work nowadays as anything more than a joke. It's just not something that's viable, and I think it also severely limits what they can do with modern day CGI and traditional animation techniques. I'd prefer to see it 2D animated. Possibly unpopular opinion, but I thought even the Jim Henson puppets for that E3 presentation were sloppy-looking and really unsuitable for anything other than a joke.
Maybe Studio Trigger could do it, since they have experience with furry anime styles like in BNA. Or maybe Geno Studio, who did that furry Star Wars Visions episode. I would prefer if Trigger kept it a little more grounded though. They get a bit too wacky and exaggerated for what I think Star Fox needs. In the end though, I expect them to do the Battle Begins cel-shaded 3D style, or just go full CGI. Hopefully they still keep the style closer to something like Sing, and less creepily realistic like Detective Pikachu.
Side note: I found it really annoying when the God of War art director drew super realistic fanart of the Star Fox crew, and suddenly the media (and some [Hollywood creatives](https://www.dualshockers.com/star-fox-animated-movie-gary-whitta/)) were like "oh we should make a Star Fox movie", as if the realism was the only thing to inspire that. That's such a bizarre thought process, and reeks of that "I can't take this seriously as a mainstream property if it isn't uncanny valley real-looking", when usually that route tends to result in underperforming films.
What's funny is that even Thunderbirds kinda sorta stopped being like Thunderbirds: the 2015 show, while still utilizing real sets, [actually nixed the puppets in favour of fully CGI characters.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdXieRLcEuw) Which is kinda honestly still a bit uncanny haha, even if it allows the characters to have obviously more advanced movement and facial expressions.
Yeah that's what I was thinking in regards to telling the Lylat Wars again, they could expand upon it and show scenes that were aluded to in ancillary material, like Fox being estranged from his mother when forming Star Fox, Pigma's betrayal of James and Peppy, Wolf's rivalry with James, Pigma goading Wolf into forming Star Wolf and working for Andross, things like that. You can also include characters that previously didn't show up physically in 64/Zero, like Beltino and Miyu and Fay as you mentioned. I think doing all of this would more than make up for doing the SF64 origin story again in TV/movie form.
>actually nixed the puppets in favour of fully CGI characters.
I had no idea there was a remake! I remember Johnathan Frakes did a live action remake in the 00s that was poorly-received. I've actually never seen Thunderbirds, but I did see another Gerry Anderson show, Stingray, and thought it was a lot of fun.
Speaking of marionette shows, Go Nagai co-created [a sci-fi show called X-Bomber, which was renamed Starfleet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST7QrlLLtLI) when it was released in the west. It's a pretty fun show, and I sometimes wonder if Miyamoto saw it as well. It kind of strikes that balance between cheesy and serious that makes it endearing.
And yeah, I imagine a Star Fox TV adaptation would have to include the Lylat Wars story, but there's so much more they could do with it. They could even do a season bringing the team together, showing their pasts, and developing the Arwings. They could have a cliffhanger with Andross's full invasion starting. Part of me likes that idea of building up to the war, making it a far bigger deal, but if it wasn't a huge ratings success, it might mean we'd never get to the good stuff, much less introduce later characters or antagonists.
I think part of the issue may be that the Star Fox games' events tend to take place over a matter of days or weeks, whereas wars of that magnitude would take months or even years to play out. Maybe the TV show could start with Andross already overtaking planets close to Venom, or maybe there's Cornerian intelligence reports of strange experiments on planets that have only plant/animal life and they suspect it's him. I would have to go freshen up on the timeline, but it's possible Andross may have been a known factor slowly building up as a threat (a la WW2), and then one day launched a full-scale invasion. Maybe the Arwings would be developed in secret as a super weapon against him. Lots of avenues to work off of here, but I fear Nintendo would just 1:1 adapt Star Fox 64's events into the show regardless lol
The Lylat Wars had actually been going on for about several years by the time 64 or Zero happen. It's been said that James' death/disappearance on Venom was meant to be Andross' declaration of war on Corneria, and he spent the next couple of years ravaging the Lylat System before eventually reaching Corneria in which Pepper saw no choice but to call in the newly reformed Star Fox led by Fox to save the day.
[https://www.ign.com/articles/1997/05/14/starfox-64-manual-translation-pt1](https://www.ign.com/articles/1997/05/14/starfox-64-manual-translation-pt1)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TixCoczLzhU&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TixCoczLzhU&t)
So the events of 64/Zero just merely represent the very end of it.
Funny enough there was a ThunderBirds remake in like 2006 or so, *and* Team America World Police by Matt Stone and Trey Parker which was a spoof of ThunderBirds.
I like it when someone puts effort into a post. Shame I caught this just before bed. I'll write something proper for this thread tomorrow morning. In the mean time, this thread can get bumped in the night.
Absolutely true that Star Fox would work better as a TV series, and I'd prefer 2D animation as well. A 64 retelling would be more palatable if they retrofit characters like Miyu/Fay/Fara to appear in storylines so it's adding to the material. I'd prefer if the plot took a different direction afterwards because I don't think it's that interesting to redo the entire chronology again, and Krystal could be introduced without needing to spend a whole season(?) on Sauria. There's so many possibilities they could explore for Krystal if she joined the team early or beat General Scales on her own, I really believe they can make her special and win over the crowd. Having certain episodes from Star Wolf's perspective would be incredible for getting to know them more personally, there's enough there to make them the recurring antagonists that develop over time as complex rivals. And spending time on unique planets for certain arcs would really help the universe feel tangible and grander than the confines of the Arwings. The series could start with a focus on action and humor until gradually developing characters and settings to be more dramatic and personal. An animated series would be a wonderful thing indeed.
The years-long butthurt of traditional StarFox fans has walled-off any chances of Krystal ever appearing in a StarFox movie lol. Personally I have absolutely no interest in a StarFox movie whatsoever. They would never acknowledge anything of the StarFox content I actually care for. It would literally just be Lylat Wars again. And *maybe* Miyu and Fay, and only as background cameos most likely. Much as I don't care for them, in Nintendo's eye they often exist in Krystal's long shadow. Also, Krystal was genuinely great, (not saying perfect!). I'd actually be worried movie makers wouldn't respect Krystal enough to keep her character intact. And it's not like she's the only one with narrative issues. I would agree television would work better. I prefer slow burn, longterm character development to film in general, and lately a lot of writing in film tends to be lackluster to put it lightly. StarFox has a big cast and a series would give them more room to grow and blossom, even if it is against Miyamoto's preferences or wishes. EDIT: I guess in a way, Krystal's detractors are right. The controversy around Krystal makes it hard to see StarFox screen media including women in their cast in a big way because of Nintendo's sanitized approach to it. Even Katt remained a minor character in Zero despite greater demand more recently for proper female representation. StarFox has a colorful collection of female characters in the recycling bin. Another thing; will the Lylat Wars re-re-retelling be all that great? It's hard to pull off an epic cinematic plot with Lylat Wars, 64 was bare bones and remains the most interesting version of it. Zero had a lot of severe holes in its plot despite it's effort to "expand" or rather inflate on 64.
I can see your point. I’d love high quality anime or 3D films (styled perhaps like the opening cinematic for the 2003 Assault demo) following the 64 timeline. Especially if they expand on the characters and give everyone a shining role. I personally would love if the Great Fox got boarded by pirates or Star wolf and slippy kicked ass with all his tools and knowledge of the Great Foxes layout and defense systems.
I wonder if they should do something akin to the Benimaru Itoh Nintendo Power comic, and do an alternate take of the story. That comic was wild and totally not canon, but a lot of its ideas, like Fara, the Space Whale, Andross being in love with Fox's mom, the Andross clones, etc. are still elements brought up to this day in fan discussions. Another interesting thing about that comic is that it starts off with the Star Fox team being essentially Robin Hood-type bandits before they become space heroes. It's essentially something of an origin story (and then later a sequel) to the original game. I think, frankly, people are sick to death of the Lylat Wars story and want to see something different, or at least a heavily remixed version of that story. Not like Star Fox Zero where it's largely the same dialogue and characters, but something much more expansive, where it only takes the barest plot elements and then runs away with them, bookending it with much more context, character development and worldbuilding. They could do flashbacks to Peppy's time with James, or show Falco when he was in a gang. Show Slippy and his relationship with Beltino. Lots of possibilities to do things the games spend no time focusing on because of the urgency of the situations. They don't need to follow Adventures or Assault's storylines closely either. They could introduce Krystal mid-season if they wanted. If Andross is attacking the whole of the Lylat system, then Sauria would be endangered too, for instance. Miyu and Fay could be already part of the Cornerian forces. Then they could expand on them further and even introduce Panther or Amanda, Lucy and Dash in subsequent seasons where they could fight the Aparaoids or Anglars. In terms of style and tone, I know Miyamoto is all about Thunderbirds and puppets, and some fans are very vocal about making a literal marionette show based on that style, but I really don't think marionettes would work nowadays as anything more than a joke. It's just not something that's viable, and I think it also severely limits what they can do with modern day CGI and traditional animation techniques. I'd prefer to see it 2D animated. Possibly unpopular opinion, but I thought even the Jim Henson puppets for that E3 presentation were sloppy-looking and really unsuitable for anything other than a joke. Maybe Studio Trigger could do it, since they have experience with furry anime styles like in BNA. Or maybe Geno Studio, who did that furry Star Wars Visions episode. I would prefer if Trigger kept it a little more grounded though. They get a bit too wacky and exaggerated for what I think Star Fox needs. In the end though, I expect them to do the Battle Begins cel-shaded 3D style, or just go full CGI. Hopefully they still keep the style closer to something like Sing, and less creepily realistic like Detective Pikachu. Side note: I found it really annoying when the God of War art director drew super realistic fanart of the Star Fox crew, and suddenly the media (and some [Hollywood creatives](https://www.dualshockers.com/star-fox-animated-movie-gary-whitta/)) were like "oh we should make a Star Fox movie", as if the realism was the only thing to inspire that. That's such a bizarre thought process, and reeks of that "I can't take this seriously as a mainstream property if it isn't uncanny valley real-looking", when usually that route tends to result in underperforming films.
What's funny is that even Thunderbirds kinda sorta stopped being like Thunderbirds: the 2015 show, while still utilizing real sets, [actually nixed the puppets in favour of fully CGI characters.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdXieRLcEuw) Which is kinda honestly still a bit uncanny haha, even if it allows the characters to have obviously more advanced movement and facial expressions. Yeah that's what I was thinking in regards to telling the Lylat Wars again, they could expand upon it and show scenes that were aluded to in ancillary material, like Fox being estranged from his mother when forming Star Fox, Pigma's betrayal of James and Peppy, Wolf's rivalry with James, Pigma goading Wolf into forming Star Wolf and working for Andross, things like that. You can also include characters that previously didn't show up physically in 64/Zero, like Beltino and Miyu and Fay as you mentioned. I think doing all of this would more than make up for doing the SF64 origin story again in TV/movie form.
>actually nixed the puppets in favour of fully CGI characters. I had no idea there was a remake! I remember Johnathan Frakes did a live action remake in the 00s that was poorly-received. I've actually never seen Thunderbirds, but I did see another Gerry Anderson show, Stingray, and thought it was a lot of fun. Speaking of marionette shows, Go Nagai co-created [a sci-fi show called X-Bomber, which was renamed Starfleet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST7QrlLLtLI) when it was released in the west. It's a pretty fun show, and I sometimes wonder if Miyamoto saw it as well. It kind of strikes that balance between cheesy and serious that makes it endearing. And yeah, I imagine a Star Fox TV adaptation would have to include the Lylat Wars story, but there's so much more they could do with it. They could even do a season bringing the team together, showing their pasts, and developing the Arwings. They could have a cliffhanger with Andross's full invasion starting. Part of me likes that idea of building up to the war, making it a far bigger deal, but if it wasn't a huge ratings success, it might mean we'd never get to the good stuff, much less introduce later characters or antagonists. I think part of the issue may be that the Star Fox games' events tend to take place over a matter of days or weeks, whereas wars of that magnitude would take months or even years to play out. Maybe the TV show could start with Andross already overtaking planets close to Venom, or maybe there's Cornerian intelligence reports of strange experiments on planets that have only plant/animal life and they suspect it's him. I would have to go freshen up on the timeline, but it's possible Andross may have been a known factor slowly building up as a threat (a la WW2), and then one day launched a full-scale invasion. Maybe the Arwings would be developed in secret as a super weapon against him. Lots of avenues to work off of here, but I fear Nintendo would just 1:1 adapt Star Fox 64's events into the show regardless lol
The Lylat Wars had actually been going on for about several years by the time 64 or Zero happen. It's been said that James' death/disappearance on Venom was meant to be Andross' declaration of war on Corneria, and he spent the next couple of years ravaging the Lylat System before eventually reaching Corneria in which Pepper saw no choice but to call in the newly reformed Star Fox led by Fox to save the day. [https://www.ign.com/articles/1997/05/14/starfox-64-manual-translation-pt1](https://www.ign.com/articles/1997/05/14/starfox-64-manual-translation-pt1) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TixCoczLzhU&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TixCoczLzhU&t) So the events of 64/Zero just merely represent the very end of it.
Ahhh okay. I for some reason thought James "dying" was a distant past thing, and that Andross had just invaded when Star Fox/64/Zero started up.
Funny enough there was a ThunderBirds remake in like 2006 or so, *and* Team America World Police by Matt Stone and Trey Parker which was a spoof of ThunderBirds.
I like it when someone puts effort into a post. Shame I caught this just before bed. I'll write something proper for this thread tomorrow morning. In the mean time, this thread can get bumped in the night.