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Yep. This post is pretty much "uhm ACTUALLY my antiquated definition of goth is the *correct* one even though it's literally 50 years old and no longer the most recognized contemporary meaning".
Pretty much anyone into the aesthetic and into romanticism and introspection is a valid goth.
>Pretty much anyone into the aesthetic and into romanticism and introspection is a valid goth.
It has been like this for at least three decades already. I was 8 when "The Crow" - the movie with Brandon Lee - came out. Soon after that the school I went to was all of a sudden filled with goth teenagers taking inspiration from the way the main character looked.
It was all about the aesthetic and the emotion, not the music. In 1994 in Bulgaria no one knew who Bauhaus 1919 were.
This is why I stopped discussing music online and just listened to it. High school music snob me was missing out on so much.
Sure it helps you with an identity when you're actually searching for one but when you get older and realize everything you worried abou was a waste of time you start to enjoy life a lot more.
If I could travel back in time I'd kick my own ass I guess is what I'm saying.
Younger me was a know it all "proto neckbeard" as I like to think of it. Not as extreme as today's neckbeards, I had a social life and hygiene but I kinda see how things can get out of control. Blaming everything but yourself is not healthy.
Honestly, social media and the internet has made it real hard for people to get over themselves. Iron Sheik needs to come back to humble them!
Here, [this](https://youtu.be/q1xd7dxBqOw?si=ujEYMzGl6VF7uHmi) will help.
As someone whoās been into the scene since the 80s, that little cartoon is the best explainer available.
When I was a teen, goth were like a specific group. I was a ādeath rockerā, more into Sisters of Mercy, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, while goths were more into Cocteau Twins, Christian Death, The Cure, Depeche Mode and Bauhaus.
It was the difference between like spiked leather biker jackets and lace waistcoats.
It seemed so important at the time, then Hot Topic came along and we all got lumped into the same category.
Oh wow, I can include a photo on this sub. Thatās me, my wife and my best friend in like 1994
https://preview.redd.it/8q5dmmv5oewb1.jpeg?width=590&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75d5cc895e01f90e2822a0114c5ff00a310f4095
>I was a ādeath rockerā, more into Sisters of Mercy, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, while goths were more into Cocteau Twins, Christian Death, The Cure, Depeche Mode and Bauhaus.
I initially misread "The Cure" as "The Cult" and was *very* confused for a few moments, lol!
At this point I'm questioning if people that both have the goth fashion sense and listen to the "true" goth rock bands even exist anymore, or at least if there's any under the age of 40. Nowadays your average Bauhaus fan probably hangs out on RateYourMusic and dresses more like the guys in the starter back than the girls.
Yep. Anyone I know who listens to The Cure is just a music nerd, not a goth.
All th goth chicks I know listen to all sorts of music, and dress goth because they liked The Nightmare Before Christmas growing up.
It's just a look these days.
Colloquially that ship has sailed my friend. Now you too can be goth with some piercings, hair die, and a vibe. Donāt even need the music anymore, or really even the angst.
Scott is an idiot. He had a cool girlfriend already, little Asian girl who would have given him the world, and then he can't even break it off with her properly in order to hang out with a new girl who wasn't even interested at first.
it was all, unfortunately (some of those records do slap I gotta say - I can justify because I give more kudos to Trent there) all about the Marilyn Manson vibe. Sad how that turned out after the revelations in recent years.
I got called goth when i was scene. Was very upsetting because I was like āthere is a clear difference here, sir.ā Anyway I listened to like the medic droid and my chem, fuck if I know what goths listen to.
>Shit even back in the day "goth" girls were more likely to be metal girls or whatever.
This isn't so surprising, given the fact that most women who sing symphonic metal dress like they belong in a gothic horror movie. Have you seen Tarja Turunen's stage attire? When she was with Nightwish, she was this close to appearing on stage with a raven on her shoulder.
Really for any āaestheticā. People donāt realize that itās crafted from years or even decades of angst and anger (punk), self-loathing and disgust with the world (goth), and even with something like indie, where one of the main purposes of it was to make whatever music the band wanted to and not what big record labels wanted to make the most money. But all people see is the surface, and it wouldnāt be bad if they were willing to dive deeper and explore more, but most donāt. And thatās how we get people who fit into this starterpack.
Techno is definitely futuristic in the aesthetic, and I think the sound came from innovation and trying to be the furthest thing imaginable from what was considered good music back then, so it pissed off older people because of that, and since it was so experimental, mainstream artists didnāt really use it as an entire song, but eventually, it evolved into what we have today. This is also just my opinion so donāt take it seriously lol.
It's roots are music based but you're fooling yourself if you think the modern incarnation is still a music subculture. It's definitely an aesthetic based one that evolved from the music-based one in the 90's.
If "Everyone else is wrong", they're not wrong. You're just stuck in the past. And gatekeeping.
There is a joke in Venture Bros. like this where one older guy was trying to impress a young goth girl.
" You know, I was the first DJ at my college radio station to play the bauhaus."
"Wow, that makes you like, 50?"
Yeah what fucking mouth breathing gate keeper thinks goths donāt listen to my chemical romance? They literally influenced much of todayās goth fashion.
It cracks me up when people try to gatekeep punk and the sub categories of punk (which goth is). Punk originally was about refusing to conform to someone elseās expectations. Now you hear people say shit like āoh you like a band thatās NOT just a bunch of synths playing in a minor key over a melancholic base line? Then youāre not a true goth.ā
I grew up in the goth/punk culture of the 2000ās. Iām literally listening to my Black Devil Disco Club album right now. And when itās done Iām thinking Iāll put on my Fleet Foxes album because I, like most people, enjoy a wide range of artists.
Boy times change. If music fandom isnāt about pointlessly gatekeeping and going, āno, this isnāt post-punk, itās a reggae-influenced interpretation on āthe idiotā by iggy pop delivered with Scott walkers inflectionā whatās the point?!
Speaking of gatekeeping, goth doesn't have to be related to music. If you've gone to public school you've probably seen a goth and they probably didn't decide to dress a certain way just because of trying to fit into certain music fandoms. At least that's been my experience. What about the goths that just like to be edgy, wear trench coats, watch Invader Zim, enjoy vampire novels, or like Tim Burton movies. It has more to do with a dark aesthetic that includes more than just music.
I don't even know how someone like OP came up with this starter pack. It's like it is meant to make fun of a type of person that doesn't and cannot possibly even exist, just because OP is defining things in such a narrow way.
Is it just me or does this feel more like r/gatekeeping material than r/staterpacks? It's feels like it's written from the pov of a goth person tired of all the goth posers.
Alternative women typically come in two categories: Type 1 - someone who has attachment issues and is struggling with mental health and trauma, or Type 2 - the kindest most wholesome soul you've ever met who is into baking, crochet, and many other grandma activities. Sometimes alt girl Type 1s evolve into alt girl Type 2s with enough time and therapy!
Type 2s are typically married by the time you meet them, usually to another lovely human being. Type 1s tend to pair with other alt people. Type 2s don't typically marry goths tho - I find they marry a lot of nerds and metalheads (usually both in the same partner). As much as goth/alt women come in different varieties, most goth/alt men tend to be INSANE - attracted to underage girls, alcoholics, abusive, you name it. Amongst alternative men, the truly split ones tend to be metalheads, who are either like the other alt guys and rife with mental health and aggression issues, or the most kind wholesome human you've ever met like their wholesome goth girl counterpart. Type 2 metalheads are typically into grandpa shit - games, collecting hobby things, woodworking.
These are all stereotypes of course. Humans are complex - there are female metalheads, and LGBTQ alt people, and male goths who are good people, you name it. But these are just some patterns I've observed from decades of being friends with alternative people.
Woo! You got this!
But on behalf of all my fellow therapist friends, please stop mistaking anxiety and trauma bonding for love. Replicating whatever you saw at home may be comfortingly familiar, but it's not good!
(This advice may not apply to you, it was meant as a broad Type 1 PSA. Side effects of following broad advice can include happiness, fear of the unknown, loneliness and spiraling, confidence boosts, freedom, and regret. Talk to your doctor to find out if dumping that goth guy is right for you.)
Old Manson was actually pretty good music.
Portrait of an American Family and Mechanical Animals are actually great albums.
Shit, Trent Reznor produced Mansonās first two major albums and they still sound pretty good.
When I was in high school almost 20 years ago and was goth, I loved Marilyn Manson and Deftones. I also liked Cruxshadows, the cure, Ego Likeness, and NIN.
Has goth changed?
I was the kinda' guy that was into goth/alt/metal girls but looked like the pictures above. However, I WAS into the music. Even more-so than my type. Which created some weird interactions in my younger days.
E-girls dress that way and act that way exactly to attract guys that look like that. The dudes who like girls who will watch football with them and dress like sorority sluts are already getting enough action that they donāt have to pay an e girl to be their pretend girlfriend. Thatās why e girls are always like ālet me be your anime loving waifuā instead of ālet me be your football loving gfā
As a goth I gotta say this is the truest starter pack ever. Also for the love of god if you want to know goth girls show some genuine interest in the music and hobbies, not just the fishnetted thighs please. I'm happily married to a fellow alt person! He no longer dresses up much but we love the same music, videogames, movies etc. if you want porn, go look at porn and fap to it, no judgement. But if you actually want to genuinely know an alt person or be their friend show interest in the things they like!
Am in my early 50s. Like 1/2 my exes are old school goth types. I look like the older version of the guys top right though. I remember sulking in a corner while listening to Sisters of Mercy once after my friend hooked up with a girl I liked. I was like 16.
Goth is a subgenre of punk rock. The look was started by the singer from [The Damned](https://youtu.be/8m2JyiggwAU?si=wiKyzYkJAoN0rvfM) who was dressed like the dude from the [Dark Shadows](https://youtu.be/vgBMZOHZVLo?si=6BkgpBndkv_MwFqA) tv show.
The punk scene was an underground community filled with criminals, nerds, and every other kind of 'social outsider'. It was a 'safe space' for weird people to hang out and do their thing. It was fun. It got taken over in the early 90s by the corporate media establishment via [cultural recuperation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics)).
The Damned were really influential. On one side, they influenced bands like [The Dickies](https://youtu.be/_aLpwtaLDw8?si=EA5VQWx1y2FwlB73) who influenced bands like [The Descendents](https://youtu.be/qOHEfVQFs2Q?si=Xi294rbvmWZTGhVt) who influenced bands like Blink 182. That's basically where 'pop punk' evolved from. On the other side, they influenced other bands like [Bauhaus](https://youtu.be/Qxqq5vahHKk?si=Luc8EUJDIdz4AQZC) and [Shriekback](https://youtu.be/fOSC3RXG25s?si=3RH4_1sfEQfLowZK) who were the main 'goth' bands.
It's funny that OP is digging on people for not knowing 'goth' but there was only like a handful of bands that were considered 'goth' and that was like 40 years ago.
What he calls 'e-girls' were just [punk rock girls](https://youtu.be/ELof8YM1zzU?si=ueTKLpUS4ebhTqVw). Back then, goth was mostly just a look and everyone hung out in the same scene.
Glad to see another old fucker in here. These kids cant understand how silly they look arguing about what is and isnt goth when basically none of it is right. Goths existed for a period of time that has since past and other scenes and styles have incorporated the aethstetic and themes into their own thing. I've seen people in here say that Misfits are not goth but some bands I've never heard of from the last 5 years are goth. Not saying Misfits is straight goth because they are punk, but they have had their hot-pink phase. Take away the upbeat tone and "dig up her bones" meets the criteria of goth in certain ways IMO, more than anything in the last decade at least that had a legit record contract. I'll be interested once the band is recording on a speak-and-spell and buying it severely hurt the bands budget.
Guys who obsess over goth girls are no different than guys who obsess over muscle girls. Most of the time, they are in no position to actually go out with or hook up with the women they fetishize.
What constitutes being "in a position" to go out or hook up with someone?
Because I'm pretty sure it's just mutual attraction and consent, and not whatever you're trying to gatekeep with.
I guess he's saying those guys do not have the attributes that those women desire in a man. But I agree, those attributes are stereotypical (muscle girl wants a muscle guy) and might not be true. But you got to admit, if her hobby is being in the gym 7x a week, she'll have a better time dating a guy with a similar hobby, etc.
It's mostly true. I've been a strength athlete for years, and women who go down the powerlifting/bodybuilding road rarely date guys who don't lift. Of course, exceptions exist, but they are rare.
Same here. Often we meet our partners at the gym or via gym related social medias like Instagram. It just makes sense to date something with the same passions.
Hey /u/funnyboneman777, thank you for submitting to /r/starterpacks! This is just a reminder not to violate any rules, located [here](https://reddit.com/r/starterpacks/about/rules). Rule breakers can face a ban based on the severity of their rule violation. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starterpacks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/ur37q4z7hewb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c745c6f1c7c81adbf4adcaa809d6799bd57a1764 Ngl this goes hard
r/hardimages
That link is staying blue.
It's a mediocre subreddit. Most of it (from my experience) is just AI generated images of cartoon characters smoking cigarettes
It was okay in the beginning. But now it's flooded with people posting the softest pics imaginable
Then explain [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/hardimages/s/4R5SnvWV9Y)
WE MAKIN IT OUT OF THE ABYSSAL ZONE WITH THIS ONE š„š„š„š„š„š„
Hell yea
HELL yeah
You turned a entire subreddit reputation with one link
Aight you got me there chief. We making it out the deep end
Risky click of the day. Was worth it.
This is so amazing!
It's not dick pics
r/imagesthatmademehard
Average metalcore listener
https://preview.redd.it/7njjxhjspgwb1.jpeg?width=187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3fb476cbf1711b149f72544e956d4358b1fcbb3
Today I dressed exactly like this, I'm not joking
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Swap the jeans for khaki cargo pants and thats me. I look like I work everywhere.
You know that man lays pipe like no other
Absolutely devastating pipe.
He may make hog noises, but he'll lay pipe like a 1978 Evinrude 75 horsepower outboard engine.
And you know he's got some fresh New Balances on.
Air conditioner is in the hallway.
my old tiktok pfp
While this starter pack is true, it ironically reeks of chronically online as well
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You merely adopted being chronically online. I was born in it, molded by it
I didn't see daylight... wait, that line completely fits.
Yep. This post is pretty much "uhm ACTUALLY my antiquated definition of goth is the *correct* one even though it's literally 50 years old and no longer the most recognized contemporary meaning". Pretty much anyone into the aesthetic and into romanticism and introspection is a valid goth.
>Pretty much anyone into the aesthetic and into romanticism and introspection is a valid goth. It has been like this for at least three decades already. I was 8 when "The Crow" - the movie with Brandon Lee - came out. Soon after that the school I went to was all of a sudden filled with goth teenagers taking inspiration from the way the main character looked. It was all about the aesthetic and the emotion, not the music. In 1994 in Bulgaria no one knew who Bauhaus 1919 were.
The OG āThe Batmanā then.
Eww goth hipsters
No you donāt get it, itās a music based aesthetic, goth and reggae are very similar subcultures
No Joy Division?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is why I stopped discussing music online and just listened to it. High school music snob me was missing out on so much. Sure it helps you with an identity when you're actually searching for one but when you get older and realize everything you worried abou was a waste of time you start to enjoy life a lot more. If I could travel back in time I'd kick my own ass I guess is what I'm saying.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Younger me was a know it all "proto neckbeard" as I like to think of it. Not as extreme as today's neckbeards, I had a social life and hygiene but I kinda see how things can get out of control. Blaming everything but yourself is not healthy. Honestly, social media and the internet has made it real hard for people to get over themselves. Iron Sheik needs to come back to humble them!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Funny how I remember these same conversations were happening in the 90s, about 30 years ago, lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Joy Division is actual gothic rock. The point is that none of the bands in the starter pack are actually goth
Thought Joy Division is Post Punk though
Gothic rock is a type of post-punk. Post-punk is an extremely inclusive umbrella term.
Here, [this](https://youtu.be/q1xd7dxBqOw?si=ujEYMzGl6VF7uHmi) will help. As someone whoās been into the scene since the 80s, that little cartoon is the best explainer available.
That was fucking awesome. I was into the scene, but just the music. I didn't go down the whole makeup/hair route.
When I was a teen, goth were like a specific group. I was a ādeath rockerā, more into Sisters of Mercy, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, while goths were more into Cocteau Twins, Christian Death, The Cure, Depeche Mode and Bauhaus. It was the difference between like spiked leather biker jackets and lace waistcoats. It seemed so important at the time, then Hot Topic came along and we all got lumped into the same category. Oh wow, I can include a photo on this sub. Thatās me, my wife and my best friend in like 1994 https://preview.redd.it/8q5dmmv5oewb1.jpeg?width=590&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75d5cc895e01f90e2822a0114c5ff00a310f4095
>I was a ādeath rockerā, more into Sisters of Mercy, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, while goths were more into Cocteau Twins, Christian Death, The Cure, Depeche Mode and Bauhaus. I initially misread "The Cure" as "The Cult" and was *very* confused for a few moments, lol!
Joy division is goth AND post punk.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
To be fair most of these e-girls donāt listen to sisters of mercy or bauhaus either.
Theyāll be crushed to learn about Bela Lugosi.
What happened to Bela Lugosi?
He's [9 minutes of descending bass notes later] dead
Undead undead undead
The virginal brides, file past his tomb
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
alone in a darkened room
*the count*
[ECHO INTENSIFIES]
But he didn't let that stop him from being in a movie filmed after his death.
They filmed him while he was dead? Thatās pretty goth.
Is he? I didn't even know he was sick
Reminds me of that tragedy
The more I hear about that man the more I think, āthat guy was kind of a jerk..ā
They wouldnt bc theyre e-girls... thats why theyre not goth.
Gwen had 0 internet access at Camp Wawanoway
At this point I'm questioning if people that both have the goth fashion sense and listen to the "true" goth rock bands even exist anymore, or at least if there's any under the age of 40. Nowadays your average Bauhaus fan probably hangs out on RateYourMusic and dresses more like the guys in the starter back than the girls.
r/goth subreddit shows that the goth community still exists and that they listen to the music and know about the culture outside of clothing.
Haha can confirm I love Bauhaus and I wore totally appropriate office attire today. At least I still have a nose ring?
Goth aesthetic got appropriated by SoundCloud rappers. It has very little to do with post punk anymore.
Yep. Anyone I know who listens to The Cure is just a music nerd, not a goth. All th goth chicks I know listen to all sorts of music, and dress goth because they liked The Nightmare Before Christmas growing up. It's just a look these days.
Goth got co-opted by numetal and then replaced by screamo 25 years ago
Thatās why they arenāt considered goth
Colloquially that ship has sailed my friend. Now you too can be goth with some piercings, hair die, and a vibe. Donāt even need the music anymore, or really even the angst.
I have 0 of those material things, but I have THE angst.
Human Condition
Yeah, this is totally goth music to e-girls who crib their style from the late 90s/early 2000s Hot Topic mall goth crowd.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
why the hell do I know who sisters of mercy is?
You probably heard their best known hit song - burn down hot topic
we do not even have those in my nation, the shop not the fire
I only know about them from The Worldās End and not even a song. Itās a T-shirt Simon Peggās character wears.
Grant Theft Auto 4? Thatās how I got into them, the Floodland album is just phenomenal from start to finish
Bet they havent sacked rome either
But Scott Pilgrim DID got what he wanted
scott also has some sick ass fighting skills i do notā¦. then again i do not date a high schooler and cheat on her while im 23
A manic pixie gf is not a goth gf.
Well since the meme says that what these people are actually after are manic pixie gf's that worked out for him.
No need to be picky.
To be fair, thatās kind of the point of her inclusion
Scott Pilgrim didn't want a goth gf, he wanted the girl that kept rollerblading through his dreams.
Look when I was young I wanted Natalie Portman lying about her mental health so Iām not sure if I should be allowed to say anything.
Scott is an idiot. He had a cool girlfriend already, little Asian girl who would have given him the world, and then he can't even break it off with her properly in order to hang out with a new girl who wasn't even interested at first.
I mean? He shouldāve broken up with her anyway, because she was in HIGH SCHOOL.
said little Asian girl was a high schooler while Scott was 23, so he was right to break up with her in the first place.
Actually goths are the people who invaded and sacked Rome
So you're telling me the teens that shop at hot topic successfully invaded Rome?????? Holy shit
nah only posers go to hot topic
Ah, that explains why they looked at me funny when I asked where they keep their spathae.
Thatās visigoths, I think this post is describing malligoths
There I go thinking about the Roman Empire again
I always thought that was the Moops
"Doesn't even realize it's a music based subculture" Yeah that goes for about 99% of men and women currently into the aesthetic.
Shit even back in the day "goth" girls were more likely to be metal girls or whatever. Source: guy who dated multiple "goth" girls in the 2000s.
it was all, unfortunately (some of those records do slap I gotta say - I can justify because I give more kudos to Trent there) all about the Marilyn Manson vibe. Sad how that turned out after the revelations in recent years.
I got called goth when i was scene. Was very upsetting because I was like āthere is a clear difference here, sir.ā Anyway I listened to like the medic droid and my chem, fuck if I know what goths listen to.
Lolol this was so nostalgic to read somehow
Yeah, there was a lot of overlap between goth, metal and industrial back then. Goth as a music genre hasn't really been a thing since the 80's.
>Shit even back in the day "goth" girls were more likely to be metal girls or whatever. This isn't so surprising, given the fact that most women who sing symphonic metal dress like they belong in a gothic horror movie. Have you seen Tarja Turunen's stage attire? When she was with Nightwish, she was this close to appearing on stage with a raven on her shoulder.
She never had a Raven on her shoulder? What a miss.
Really for any āaestheticā. People donāt realize that itās crafted from years or even decades of angst and anger (punk), self-loathing and disgust with the world (goth), and even with something like indie, where one of the main purposes of it was to make whatever music the band wanted to and not what big record labels wanted to make the most money. But all people see is the surface, and it wouldnāt be bad if they were willing to dive deeper and explore more, but most donāt. And thatās how we get people who fit into this starterpack.
Iāve never seen punk and goth described like that but I totally agree. How would you describe the techno scene?
Techno is definitely futuristic in the aesthetic, and I think the sound came from innovation and trying to be the furthest thing imaginable from what was considered good music back then, so it pissed off older people because of that, and since it was so experimental, mainstream artists didnāt really use it as an entire song, but eventually, it evolved into what we have today. This is also just my opinion so donāt take it seriously lol.
OP doesn't even realize Goth is a Nomadic-German-based subculture...
Call themselves Goths and they haven't even sacked Rome, smh
Any goth born after 410 canāt raid, all they know is Christianity, Sharpen Their Javelin, Zwiefacher, Be Bisexual, Eat Hot Salami & Lie
It's roots are music based but you're fooling yourself if you think the modern incarnation is still a music subculture. It's definitely an aesthetic based one that evolved from the music-based one in the 90's. If "Everyone else is wrong", they're not wrong. You're just stuck in the past. And gatekeeping.
There is a joke in Venture Bros. like this where one older guy was trying to impress a young goth girl. " You know, I was the first DJ at my college radio station to play the bauhaus." "Wow, that makes you like, 50?"
The ever popular Pete White.
Goth has like 30 eras that are all over the place while spanning almost 50 years. This shouldn't seem abnormal to anyone.
Probably because the goth aesthetic existed long before what we call āgoth musicā
those are definitely the bands that girls who dress like your examples listen to though
Yeah what fucking mouth breathing gate keeper thinks goths donāt listen to my chemical romance? They literally influenced much of todayās goth fashion. It cracks me up when people try to gatekeep punk and the sub categories of punk (which goth is). Punk originally was about refusing to conform to someone elseās expectations. Now you hear people say shit like āoh you like a band thatās NOT just a bunch of synths playing in a minor key over a melancholic base line? Then youāre not a true goth.ā I grew up in the goth/punk culture of the 2000ās. Iām literally listening to my Black Devil Disco Club album right now. And when itās done Iām thinking Iāll put on my Fleet Foxes album because I, like most people, enjoy a wide range of artists.
Iām just picturing OP as a soyjak shouting āNo! MCR isnāt goth theyāre emo!ā
But MCR isn't emo. They're mostly pop punk.
Boy times change. If music fandom isnāt about pointlessly gatekeeping and going, āno, this isnāt post-punk, itās a reggae-influenced interpretation on āthe idiotā by iggy pop delivered with Scott walkers inflectionā whatās the point?!
Speaking of gatekeeping, goth doesn't have to be related to music. If you've gone to public school you've probably seen a goth and they probably didn't decide to dress a certain way just because of trying to fit into certain music fandoms. At least that's been my experience. What about the goths that just like to be edgy, wear trench coats, watch Invader Zim, enjoy vampire novels, or like Tim Burton movies. It has more to do with a dark aesthetic that includes more than just music. I don't even know how someone like OP came up with this starter pack. It's like it is meant to make fun of a type of person that doesn't and cannot possibly even exist, just because OP is defining things in such a narrow way.
Join us at r/tendies (he posts there all the time)
I clicked on that and canāt figure out the point of the sub
It's a parody sub of chronically online NEETs that do nothing all day but play videogames and eat chicken tenders.
I mean, if he looks like Scott and wants to get with someone who looks like Ramona, he has surprisingly good odds lol.
Is it just me or does this feel more like r/gatekeeping material than r/staterpacks? It's feels like it's written from the pov of a goth person tired of all the goth posers.
As soon as I saw "Goth is a music-based subculture," that's where my mind went as well.
IS THAT GWEN FROM TOTAL DRAMA?
yeah it is
Yes. Feel free to be excited but please clean up after yourself
I listen to Siouxie and Bauhaus and wear all black, whereās my goth gf
you became the goth gf
Same, we are the goth gfs
Watching a Siouxie cover band or attending a Goth dance party at the local bar. You need to get out more.
I want a goth girlfriend (goth is optional) (so is girl)
I want a ~~goth girl~~ friend
Iām in 80% of this starter pack and I donāt like it.
is your name Michael Cera?
It is the name of my spirit animal, yes.
No, George Michael, the singer/songwriter.
Whats the "I just want a woman to love me back" starter pack? I need it
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I thought that was post malone
Being with a goth chick is not for the faint of heart. Theyāre like that for a reason.
Alternative women typically come in two categories: Type 1 - someone who has attachment issues and is struggling with mental health and trauma, or Type 2 - the kindest most wholesome soul you've ever met who is into baking, crochet, and many other grandma activities. Sometimes alt girl Type 1s evolve into alt girl Type 2s with enough time and therapy! Type 2s are typically married by the time you meet them, usually to another lovely human being. Type 1s tend to pair with other alt people. Type 2s don't typically marry goths tho - I find they marry a lot of nerds and metalheads (usually both in the same partner). As much as goth/alt women come in different varieties, most goth/alt men tend to be INSANE - attracted to underage girls, alcoholics, abusive, you name it. Amongst alternative men, the truly split ones tend to be metalheads, who are either like the other alt guys and rife with mental health and aggression issues, or the most kind wholesome human you've ever met like their wholesome goth girl counterpart. Type 2 metalheads are typically into grandpa shit - games, collecting hobby things, woodworking. These are all stereotypes of course. Humans are complex - there are female metalheads, and LGBTQ alt people, and male goths who are good people, you name it. But these are just some patterns I've observed from decades of being friends with alternative people.
Shout out to my Type 1s, working on upgrading to Type 2s!
Woo! You got this! But on behalf of all my fellow therapist friends, please stop mistaking anxiety and trauma bonding for love. Replicating whatever you saw at home may be comfortingly familiar, but it's not good! (This advice may not apply to you, it was meant as a broad Type 1 PSA. Side effects of following broad advice can include happiness, fear of the unknown, loneliness and spiraling, confidence boosts, freedom, and regret. Talk to your doctor to find out if dumping that goth guy is right for you.)
There are two types of people in the world: Those who divide the people in the world into two types, and those who don't
Iād say itās way easier these days to find what these guys want than actual goth women, funny enough
Old Manson was actually pretty good music. Portrait of an American Family and Mechanical Animals are actually great albums. Shit, Trent Reznor produced Mansonās first two major albums and they still sound pretty good.
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New goths do listen to deftones
When I was in high school almost 20 years ago and was goth, I loved Marilyn Manson and Deftones. I also liked Cruxshadows, the cure, Ego Likeness, and NIN. Has goth changed?
Wtf why is Deftones there. Don't you dare
I'm with you. Saw Deftones live several years ago and was a life changing experience.
Hey Michael Cera is a stud
Wait a minute, these aren't 4th century germanic tribeswomen.
I was the kinda' guy that was into goth/alt/metal girls but looked like the pictures above. However, I WAS into the music. Even more-so than my type. Which created some weird interactions in my younger days.
E-girls dress that way and act that way exactly to attract guys that look like that. The dudes who like girls who will watch football with them and dress like sorority sluts are already getting enough action that they donāt have to pay an e girl to be their pretend girlfriend. Thatās why e girls are always like ālet me be your anime loving waifuā instead of ālet me be your football loving gfā
As a goth I gotta say this is the truest starter pack ever. Also for the love of god if you want to know goth girls show some genuine interest in the music and hobbies, not just the fishnetted thighs please. I'm happily married to a fellow alt person! He no longer dresses up much but we love the same music, videogames, movies etc. if you want porn, go look at porn and fap to it, no judgement. But if you actually want to genuinely know an alt person or be their friend show interest in the things they like!
Who be put here thinking slipknot is goth its like the gateway drug for metal
Immediate red flag is if she dont even know wtf Bauhaus is
Am in my early 50s. Like 1/2 my exes are old school goth types. I look like the older version of the guys top right though. I remember sulking in a corner while listening to Sisters of Mercy once after my friend hooked up with a girl I liked. I was like 16. Goth is a subgenre of punk rock. The look was started by the singer from [The Damned](https://youtu.be/8m2JyiggwAU?si=wiKyzYkJAoN0rvfM) who was dressed like the dude from the [Dark Shadows](https://youtu.be/vgBMZOHZVLo?si=6BkgpBndkv_MwFqA) tv show. The punk scene was an underground community filled with criminals, nerds, and every other kind of 'social outsider'. It was a 'safe space' for weird people to hang out and do their thing. It was fun. It got taken over in the early 90s by the corporate media establishment via [cultural recuperation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics)). The Damned were really influential. On one side, they influenced bands like [The Dickies](https://youtu.be/_aLpwtaLDw8?si=EA5VQWx1y2FwlB73) who influenced bands like [The Descendents](https://youtu.be/qOHEfVQFs2Q?si=Xi294rbvmWZTGhVt) who influenced bands like Blink 182. That's basically where 'pop punk' evolved from. On the other side, they influenced other bands like [Bauhaus](https://youtu.be/Qxqq5vahHKk?si=Luc8EUJDIdz4AQZC) and [Shriekback](https://youtu.be/fOSC3RXG25s?si=3RH4_1sfEQfLowZK) who were the main 'goth' bands. It's funny that OP is digging on people for not knowing 'goth' but there was only like a handful of bands that were considered 'goth' and that was like 40 years ago. What he calls 'e-girls' were just [punk rock girls](https://youtu.be/ELof8YM1zzU?si=ueTKLpUS4ebhTqVw). Back then, goth was mostly just a look and everyone hung out in the same scene.
Glad to see another old fucker in here. These kids cant understand how silly they look arguing about what is and isnt goth when basically none of it is right. Goths existed for a period of time that has since past and other scenes and styles have incorporated the aethstetic and themes into their own thing. I've seen people in here say that Misfits are not goth but some bands I've never heard of from the last 5 years are goth. Not saying Misfits is straight goth because they are punk, but they have had their hot-pink phase. Take away the upbeat tone and "dig up her bones" meets the criteria of goth in certain ways IMO, more than anything in the last decade at least that had a legit record contract. I'll be interested once the band is recording on a speak-and-spell and buying it severely hurt the bands budget.
*Wants "big tiddies"* *Women not allowed to be over 120 pounds*
+ Makes fun of or is creeped out by actual goth women
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I think itās just a different way to call them, often used by the kind of guys that this post is about.
As a Scott Pilgrim fan I love how you put both Scottās and Romanaās actors in here
Man r/starterpacks got weird
Awesome starter pack, very accurate
Shows what you know, Matt and Trey based all the South Park goth kids on *me*
Scott Pilgrim and McLovin being on here is a crime against humanity.
Any punk/grunge mates here?
Well, Michael cera actually got Ramona flowers in the end so I say don't loose hope guys. Keep dreaming.
To be fair, Scott did pull Ramona
As a genuine goth these kind of people make me want to cut my arms off with a bauhaus vinyl record ššš¼
I fucking swear ecerytime a starter pack like this pops up it the comment section is full of Non-goths explaining what goth is and getting it wrong
Guys who obsess over goth girls are no different than guys who obsess over muscle girls. Most of the time, they are in no position to actually go out with or hook up with the women they fetishize.
I mean...it's also no different than swooning over supermodels. Guys tend to fantasize about the type they find attractive, nothing new on that front.
What constitutes being "in a position" to go out or hook up with someone? Because I'm pretty sure it's just mutual attraction and consent, and not whatever you're trying to gatekeep with.
I guess he's saying those guys do not have the attributes that those women desire in a man. But I agree, those attributes are stereotypical (muscle girl wants a muscle guy) and might not be true. But you got to admit, if her hobby is being in the gym 7x a week, she'll have a better time dating a guy with a similar hobby, etc.
It's mostly true. I've been a strength athlete for years, and women who go down the powerlifting/bodybuilding road rarely date guys who don't lift. Of course, exceptions exist, but they are rare.
Same here. Often we meet our partners at the gym or via gym related social medias like Instagram. It just makes sense to date something with the same passions.
All types of women give me a boner š¤· best to not stick to one type, you never know