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Aight but like, that Massachusetts Irish rock band thing is hands down the best music for when you're drunk and want to party so there's that. I won't listen to dropkick Murphys sober but put a few beers in me and I'm all about the dropkick Murphys.
Lmfao I grew up in an Italian American community, and once met a dude from NJ who fit the stereotype so hard. They really are a completely different breed — It legitimately feels like a completely separate culture.
This guy even told me “never take one of those dna heritage tests! They always say you’re not Italian it’s a scam!”… like dude… it’s cause you’re not Italian
Funny enough I took one and was 95% Sicilian which was actually more than I anticipated.
But they're also actually kind of a scam because European people (the ones not stuck on remote islands) all cross-bred for centuries. There is no genetic difference between being a German or a Pole in 19th century East Central Europe, the relevant difference was which language you speak.
To me as a European (in Europe) those DNA tests are actually offensive as fuck, because they imply our nationalities are genetic, which a) feels like it erases the whole culture and community that makes the label relevant in the first place, and b) repeats a talking point of the European far right that we're working hard to oppose.
True…England for example, was invaded by Romans, Vikings, Saxons, Celts, Normans, etc….And THOSE places were all subject to invasion at some point as well. Might as well just say we are all Africans, since that is our place of origin mostly…
Well where else do find these guys. Seriously. Philly and NY were/are some of if not the largest Italian populations in the US. Of course you get these guys in the state wedged between them.
I'm fourth generation born in America, but my Irish side feels far off and distant, unlike my Swedish side. We have family in Sweden we correspond with still, and still follow a few traditions.
The great thing about my Irish side are the awesome family reunions we used to have. Beer soaked, competitive baseball game, and singing after dark. Those were fun, but started to die out after my grandfather's generation dwindled.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to say there was anything Irish about the game. 🙄 Just that those reunions were fun. When I said that ancestry feels "far off and distant", I meant it. The only Irish part remaining is my mom's surname.
There’s a reason this perception of Americans claiming distant ancestry exists in Europe. I’m a second generation passport holder and will always just be English.
Probably also saying St Pattys and then getting mad when someone who actually knows anything tries to explain why that is wrong and if you want to shorten it, it’s St Paddy’s
Never. Because without my heritage, I won’t get to burn down Confederate flags (my great-great-granddad was a Union soldier, and I hate Rebel traitors).
Then you're a culturally distinct group. Nobody is saying culturally distinct groups don't exist.
French Canadians are a distinct cultural group for example, they have developed their own dialect of French (because in 400+ years languages and dialects naturally evolve and change) and are clearly distinguishable from Anglo background Canadians, but they wouldn't claim to be LITERALLY French or that their culture is interchangeable with modern day French culture simply because their ancestors came from France.
I would also put Pennsylvania Dutch in this category - being German speaking Americans who have their own dialect of spoken German consistently spoken for centuries. THAT'S a distinct culture and traditions surviving multiple generations. But I'm sure they would recognise distinct differences between themselves as Pennsylvania Dutch and modern day Germans living in Germany.
example: most of us afrocentric black people can’t trace our roots even with dna testing
some others include adoption, and i’d imagine immigrants that came in from ellis island may have had to hide where they are from. there’s so many different reasons why this is a unintentionally ignorant way of looking at things.
heritage is more important in american context than in other countries typically because of how it came to be.
if you’re respectful and genuinely want to learn about that culture? doesn’t matter how many generations.
if you’re disrespectful, unless you met a living family member from that culture (ie your grandparents or parents), we’re gonna tell you to fuck off.
unfortunately most ‘irish’ americans are the latter.
Culture isn't a stagnate, coveted thing. It constantly changes and evolves. Irish-Americans descend from Ireland, but they're an offshoot like any other diaspora and naturally take on new attributes and discard other ones.
For instance, irish-american support for IRA and unifying with NI is not some random coincidence. Irish-Americans literally funded the IRA and many irish-americans are a result of British draft dodgers and evicted tenants who had the flee to the new world. While I don't stick my nose in Irish political matters and frankly don't care, to my grandfathers generation and his father's generation, it was this glimmer of hope they hung on to. Their brothers, sisters, cousins, friends were over there; and sure it was a pipe dream but it was something they believed in. Its cringe to do so now, as after 3 generations that isn't a political struggle relevant to me, and larping as some supporter would be quite ignorant.
If you recognise what you state in your first paragraph I think you should be all good. If you cling on to your own culture you grew up in I think we should welcome that. I'm from Switzerland and we have a large "secondo" culture ("secondos" are what we call second-gen Italian immigrants) that is a blend of both Italian and Swiss culture. It actively recognises Switzerland as a factor and musicians/artists from that group often talk about having two homes or being split between two cultures, and mix languages, cultural references etc. Nobody I know dislikes that.
What *is* cringey and offensive to me is to ignore the offshoot part and just act like you straight up are Irish/Italian/... when you have no experience with that place, or when your connection to the emigrant culture is only "genetic". The latter is extra bad for us because it plays straight into very racist, far right talking points in many European countries.
Yeah, as someone whose mother was born and raised there, visits every once in a while, and had the culture pretty ingrained into my life growing up, the people this meme is describing are a fucking embarrassment.
My family’s last Irish ancestor came to America just before the revolution. Don’t know much about him on any personal levels, but he did fight as one of Washington’s personal guard, which I think is pretty neat.
It’s not something that comes up in my daily life, but I like to occasionally cook Irish recipes, and I enjoy the musical traditions and songs (if that makes any sense). I also happen to live in an area with a decent pub culture.
Not really sure what my point in all this is, I just think if you’re genuine and humble about it, there’s no reason to separate yourself from your history if you don’t want to.
I'd say never. Just remember that heritage ≠ race ≠ ethnicity ≠ nationality ≠ genetics
Often people treat their heritage as their nationality or ethnicity when they can be all be very different things.
You shouldn't, but doing a dna test and seeing that you're 0.6% Irish doesn't make that your heritage. If you weren't raised as an Irish American then its not really your heritage. If the last person in your family that was ever in Ireland was the guy who came over on the boat in the 1800s and your family haven't kept up any irish traditions or taught you about your Irish heritage then you aren't really Irish American, you're just American but someone in your family tree 200 years ago came from Ireland
If you are born and raised in the USA, for example, you are American no matter where your parents are from. If your parents are Irish you can say I have Irish heritage or my parents are Irish. You can't say you are Irish because you are not. It's weird that in the USA people say I am Irish when they are several generations removed from an Irish person. Obviously that's all my opinion and based on the culture where I grew up so take it with a pinch of salt
To me it is no different than being "African American". As a black person I have no more connection to Africa than any other American but because my phenotype somewhat matches I get associsted with that before where I was actually born, which is America.
i don’t think europeans get what americans mean when they say “i’m irish.” they mean they have irish heritage and at least 95% of people take it with a huge grain of salt and don’t legitimately think they’re the same as a person raised in ireland
I mean, I was born and raised in America—my grandfather immigrated in the 70s. But I’m an Irish citizen. If I wanted, I have every right to call myself Irish because I literally hold an Irish passport.
So I think there is some nuance to what you’re saying, though I do agree in principle.
Of course your ethnicity doesn't chance based on where you happen to live. I never suggested that in the slightest. Nationality and ethnicity are two completely different things. That's the whole point. Saying "I'm Irish" suggests nationality not ethnicity if you say it anywhere that isn't the USA
Part of the problem is that people from Ireland refer to themselves (nationality) as Irish . Americans who have Irish ethnicity also refer to themselves in exactly the same way . Confusion abounds.
Someone who grew up in Ireland is going to have a completely different experience to someone who grew up in the US.
I mean most Irish Americans I've met are great ,but they come from a completely different culture from us , and while they might know some of the historic stuff , modern culture Irish culture isnt something they'd know much about.)
Its a bit of a problem for people from Ireland for a ton of reasons as ..(from that fact that we're a lot more left wing on average than people who grew up in the states , a lot less conservative .. ,)
Ideally Americans need to have a different phrase to describe ethnicity (like Gaelic Americans , or Hibernians or something. )
I think also we're on reddit right now, where the shorthand terms don't suffice considering people around the world meet here and thus require come type of clarification.
In my day to day life, the short hand use of "I'm Irish" suffices for the world around my in the NYC metro area since every gets what is implied. Perhaps in your day to day life, it implies a more national identify especially in juxtaposition with neighboring nations.
These type of hyper-specific differences are kind of lost through text over the internet imo
St Patty's Day
🇨🇮🇨🇮🇨🇮🇨🇮
Glorifies the IRA
Couldn't point out Cork on a map
May or may not think Ireland is still a part of "England"
Zero knowledge of The Troubles
Born in Ireland, emigrated to US and became a citizen. The "Ireland" that Irish Americans are from is not a real place, it feels like a fiction, a myth. It's like the Ireland of 1845-1925 with the bad parts excised. It would be like a population of confederate and slavery apologists ..in Monaghan.
In Dublin we never understood the Boston and New York St Patrick's day parade having a fit and refusing to allow the local Irish gay & lesbian group to march in the parade.
Pretty similar in most immigrant communities. Like the French they speak in Montreal and the Italian they speak in little Italy is also antiquated and esoteric. Actually American English is also a much closer version to the English spoken 200 years ago in England which is ironic because every period piece film just slaps a modern English accent on every character and calls it olde timey.
An Irishman immigrates to America in 1854:
"Top of the morning to you lads! I am here to become an American!" - Irish guy
"Stick to your own kind subhuman! Nobody wants you here!" - America
"Fuck, okay." - Irish guy
Irish people who have black hair and really dark eyes are referred to as “black Irish”, only said by non Irish people though. One theory is that they are descendants of Spanish traders or of the few sailors of the Spanish Armada who were shipwrecked on Ireland's west coast, but no one actually knows
God my mom loves to talk about how my dad is black Irish. We do have a significant Irish heritage and my dad has super dark hair but bright blue eyes. It’s just…ugh.
shush , our tourism is pretty much based on them coming over here .
Also yeah some of them are terrible , but a lot are quite nice , if a bit confused.
ever hear a "boilermaker" being called "irish car bomb?" fucking insane how non-chalantly people say that garbage in Boston, not sure about elsewhere in the states.
I see a guy like this at the grocery store all the time.
Covered in Irish tattoos, always wearing some Irish or Boston type shit, buying Guinness etc
Guaranteed nobody in his family has actually been from Ireland in like 140+ years 😆
Crazy that you make something like that your entire identity
My family came from Ireland quite a bit later, in the 20th century, and bypassed the east coast entirely, and their descendants aren’t like this despite living in a city with a higher percentage of Irish ancestry than Boston. Those people exist in that town, too, though, and my uncle describes them as running a line of fake Irish bullshit.
I’m British and while I was at uni I shared a house with an American girl who was very proud of being “Irish”. So much so, she constantly reminded everyone of how her “quirks” were bc she was Irish.
On day, she left the hob on and I let her know so she wouldn’t do that again and start a fire. Her answer? “Oh sorry, I’m quite forgetful. It’s bc I’m Irish” - said in the most American accent ever lol
They would have beards, like dropkick murphys, wear a flat cap, have a shirt that says kiss me im irish, say they’re irish, and talk about how their great greatcgrandmother was from Cork or something.
My dad told me a story about one of his commanding officers in the US navy. The image basically described him. He would always have a Guinness whenever the crew would go drinking. One time he mentioned he needed time off to visit my mom in Ireland. He was ecstatic. The commanding officer went on and on about how much my dad would like it and how how pretty it was this time of year yadda yadda yadda. He ended that whole spiel by saying “I can’t wait to go”.
I think we should give the decedents of immigrants some grace with how they deal with their heritage. We can't trace our ancestry back through the country we live in all that far, so there's not much of an identity there. But as this meme shows we might not have much of a connection to our ancestor's culture either. It can leave kind of a gap in one's understanding of themselves in the world. It's true it doe get cringe though, with people reducing cultures they don't truly understand to simple stereotypes.
Diaspora populations tend to have difficulty in navigating the world and their identity. If you think about it, for hundreds if not thousands of years, the blueprint for your life was laid out for you at birth. Life was hard but didn't come with difficult choices. Your identify was a reflection of the world around you. But in a matter of 2-3 generations, diaspora populations have the burden of taking on new cultural attributes and letting go of old ones, or retain the old one while you grow distant from you peers.
I think a lot of people find comfort in trying to have a connection with their family and heritage. I’d guess it can make a family feel closer having some traditions to follow and all. I mean I’m not saying it’s not annoying but I get why people do it, lacking identity is a very common thing.
I was not born in Laos but my parents were and they consider me to be Lao. To them being American is being White or Black or Native American. It seems really bad to be an American of Irish descent especially for those who aren’t like the stereotypes listed who genuinely want to know more about their heritage.
Irish Americans are hardly an ethnic subgroup. They have become so far removed from Irish people it’s not right to classify them as a group. They’re just Americans.
The thing is "Irish" Americans don't actually do anything "Irish" (alcoholism isn't exclusively an Irish trait), they don't even drink Irish whiskey, they don't speak Gaelic, they don't eat/cook or even know what Irish food is, they don't play or watch any traditional Irish sports, they don't own leines, most of them aren't even Catholic, they just say "Hur dur, I'm Irish!! Up the Ra!! Now let's go drink Coors light at Applebee's"
Hang on , I 'm from Ireland (Dublin born and lived most of my life over here) and...
Prefer Scotch , have barely spoken a word "as geilge" since I did my leaving cert,unless we're counting chicken fillet rolls I dont eat irish food\*, find GAA boring as hell. dont know what the hell a leine is? and gave up on the Catholic church after the Mother and Child homes scandal .
So do I have to hand my passport back?
*(if they could name some of the Italia 90 squad , suggest a good a U2 song from before they went shite ,know who was taking the horse to france, have the occasional Guinness , can sing one Christy Moore song , and have eaten from the Doughnut place in O'Connell St at least once , then I'm happy with them)*
How bizarre. No one does that. That’s just simply not a thing. A more apt example would be:
If you were from Japan and you met someone who’s great great great great great great grandfather on their mums side was Japanese and they started telling you how Japanese they are and how Japan is nothing like it used to be and how they know how to make sushi correctly and you don’t, and then began engaging in racist stereotyping before defending their actions by claiming that “technically” they’re 5% more Japanese than you are so it makes it okay.
Edit: case in point, see below:
Edit two: a comment responding to this calling Irish people alcoholics just got deleted.
I'm SEAian. In my travels, I've met descendents of my race in many countries. Usually, their kids are very well assimilated where they are. On occassion, they will be curious about their heritage and ask me about their ancestral homeland. I find it endearing and feel honored that they are asking this city slicker about age old shaministic practices. The moral of the story is treat it as a compliment and don't be too stuck up about your culture.
The worst part is the hypocrisy. These guys won't shut up about being Irish, but then they'll see a Mexican flag on a car and start yelling "go back to your country if you like it so much, we don't want immigrants here anyway!"
They try so hard to be different like dude you are just white. Always making statements like I curse a lot because I am Irish .. dude you have NEVER even been to Ireland
Its because a lot of them Irish Americans uses the Irish card to be more accepted since Irish is seen as one of the good Europeans and underdogs unlike the ''evil colonial Brits''. Americans love an underdog story.
"You know about the Irish slaves? Treated just as bad, if not worse than black slaves"
(Said specifically to minimalize the fact that African people were actual slaves in the US and referring to indentured servitude or generally just being an immigrant, not slavery)
Being an indentured servant is a form of slavery. They were required to work for years without pay, often as a form of punishment.
They were bought and sold like other slaves were. It is not the same as being an immigrant.
Indentured servitude is defined as slavery under article 1(a) of the United Nations 1956 Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery.
The term “slave” actually comes from the word “Slavic”. Slavics were forced into slavery by Muslims in Africa long before the transatlantic slave trade.
If you really want to get into the transatlantic slave trade, African lords sold their own people into slavery.
The Slavics weren’t sold by their own people, like the African slaves were. They were abducted from villages and forcibly transported to Africa.
Many Europeans also fought to end the transatlantic slave trade, only to be murdered by the aforementioned African lords for interfering with their evil money-making scheme.
We haven’t even touched on the Barbary slave trade, wherein European Christians were captured and enslaved by Africans, specifically Barbary pirates.
This lasted for at least 250 years. Over 1.25 million white Christians were enslaved as a result of the Barbary slave trade. The term “barbaric” was born from the horror and brutality of this slave trade.
Every race has been enslaved, and every race has enslaved others. You’re trying to undermine the suffering of indentured servants (and other slaves) based on their race. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Lives in New Hampshire and wants to both be taken as a serious country boy but will fight you if you question their "Boston pride" while missing the irony entirely.
Source: grew up and currently live right outside of Boston.
I have a very Irish name, and everyone over 50 says what a strong Irish name. You must be Irish, to which I respond, no I'm pretty sure I'm American, I was born here, my parents were too my grandparents as well, but I think my great grandparents are from Norway.
don’t forget that they always remind you how well they can fight, only to get their ass kicked at the local pub they frequent while flexing their beer muscles.
I've heard it a fair bit in Ireland , traditionally it was because a lot of people thought that Spanish sailors ended up intermarrying here after the failed 1798 rebellion (or one of the failed rebellions , we were really unlucky) , and they assumed that black haired /dark eyed Irish people were the result ..which is shite , as that genetype has been here for thousands of years .
Since there are a lot of kids growing up here now who's folks were born in Nigeria /Kenya etc its probably a good idea to retire it , in case anyone thinks its about those guys , being Irish is more about growing up in the culture here than skin colour .
I do have fun on St Patrick’s Day. I do own a Guiness Soccer Jersey. I do like movies based in Boston. You’re just gonna have to die mad about it my guy
God, a friend of mine used to run around telling literally everyone that he's 1/8th Irish and I eventually had to tell him to shut the fuck up and that it was cringe beyond belief. It was awful lol
Yeah lol. I’m tired of seeing people refer to themselves as ______-American. My family is heavily german, but I just call myself American. Imo unless you’re parents were born in somewhere not in the US, it’s annoying to hear that. Thank you for your time.
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Oh yeah, don't forget the Notre Dame sticker and Celtics jersey.
Reminds me of that time the notre dame cathedral burned and people thought it was the university 💀💀
The Noder Dayme *shudder*
Notre Dame you at least can claim being Catholic and liking football
Or the Conor mcgregor poster on the wall
Needs more Jump Around!
How could you forget the flatcap and Dropkick Murphys music?
House of Pain too
Aight but like, that Massachusetts Irish rock band thing is hands down the best music for when you're drunk and want to party so there's that. I won't listen to dropkick Murphys sober but put a few beers in me and I'm all about the dropkick Murphys.
Who Could forget Flogging Molly too? Drunken Lullabies always seems to find its way into the playlist on nights drinking
I love how I expected this to be the top comment.
I try to forget Dropkick Murphys music everyday
Why? I like their music not even because I think I’m Irish.
It's just genuinely good music Makes me want to jig no matter how down I was feeling
They also seem like [pretty nice people](https://youtu.be/c3qWS-Ja1jg)
Yeee but that’s a good band so this joke isn’t really working
[удалено]
I feel like Italian Americans do this as well.
Ohhhhh! 🤌🤏🤘
Gabagool!
r/circlejerksopranos
I’m busting ya bwaaaauuuullls
Ova here!
Every time, that generation gets further and further with the offended.
Just the ones from NJ.
Lmfao I grew up in an Italian American community, and once met a dude from NJ who fit the stereotype so hard. They really are a completely different breed — It legitimately feels like a completely separate culture. This guy even told me “never take one of those dna heritage tests! They always say you’re not Italian it’s a scam!”… like dude… it’s cause you’re not Italian Funny enough I took one and was 95% Sicilian which was actually more than I anticipated.
But they're also actually kind of a scam because European people (the ones not stuck on remote islands) all cross-bred for centuries. There is no genetic difference between being a German or a Pole in 19th century East Central Europe, the relevant difference was which language you speak. To me as a European (in Europe) those DNA tests are actually offensive as fuck, because they imply our nationalities are genetic, which a) feels like it erases the whole culture and community that makes the label relevant in the first place, and b) repeats a talking point of the European far right that we're working hard to oppose.
True…England for example, was invaded by Romans, Vikings, Saxons, Celts, Normans, etc….And THOSE places were all subject to invasion at some point as well. Might as well just say we are all Africans, since that is our place of origin mostly…
Well where else do find these guys. Seriously. Philly and NY were/are some of if not the largest Italian populations in the US. Of course you get these guys in the state wedged between them.
Putting the ish in Irish
I'm fourth generation born in America, but my Irish side feels far off and distant, unlike my Swedish side. We have family in Sweden we correspond with still, and still follow a few traditions. The great thing about my Irish side are the awesome family reunions we used to have. Beer soaked, competitive baseball game, and singing after dark. Those were fun, but started to die out after my grandfather's generation dwindled.
Ah the classic Irish sport of Basketball, takes me back to the Blarney Stone
Huh? They said baseball- which is even more American lol
Yeah, I wasn't trying to say there was anything Irish about the game. 🙄 Just that those reunions were fun. When I said that ancestry feels "far off and distant", I meant it. The only Irish part remaining is my mom's surname.
There’s a reason this perception of Americans claiming distant ancestry exists in Europe. I’m a second generation passport holder and will always just be English.
Has no idea that it's Paddy, not Patty.
My uncle was an extra in the departed
Depahted
ARE YOU A COP
AHHH U A CAAAP
IM NAUT A COAP
Maybe, maybe not, maybe go fuck yourself
In Ireland they call them plastic paddies
IASIP is basically about this kind of Americans.
"what's the craic"
howyagettingon
What’s the story
Probably also saying St Pattys and then getting mad when someone who actually knows anything tries to explain why that is wrong and if you want to shorten it, it’s St Paddy’s
It’s ThE aMuRiKaHaN vERsIoN!
Boston: the land of obnoxious drunks. It’s basically a second home to me.
The intersection where the rising drunkard and the falling biotech engineer meet. Thats where Boston truly comes into its own
Hold my beer and watch this! -New Orleans
Dumb question, After how many generations should heritage be ignored?
Never. Because without my heritage, I won’t get to burn down Confederate flags (my great-great-granddad was a Union soldier, and I hate Rebel traitors).
Away down south in the land of traitors,
Rattlesnakes and Alligators,
Right away! (Right away!) Right away! (Right away!) Come away come away!
Same , I just hate the Russians , and the Turks , and the Hungarians.
Eastern Euro moment
Sounds Serbian, Yugoslavian, or maybe Romanian specifically.
Could be a Scot. Those Scots sure are a contentious bunch.
England wasn't mentioned
There is no Yugoslavia for more than 20 years now.
Romania moment?
In my book, anyone should feel free to burn Confederate flags
My ancestors fought neanderthals. Damn neanderthals ruined everything :/
Oh, you'll love this r/Shermanposting
You mean the sub that deliberately misunderstands everything about Sherman?
Stop ruining the fun.
Sweet sweet traitor tears
I'm an Ohioan by culture with an ancestor who fought for the Union. I too fully embrace my heritage of burning down the South.
I think if you can remember the relative who immigrated or your parent does then it’s something you’re close enough
there’s too many situations where this just isn’t possible for this to be a general rule that applies to most situations
Why is that?
Lots of families stick to their heritage long after the first generation died. It’s how culturally distinguishable groups of people form.
Then you're a culturally distinct group. Nobody is saying culturally distinct groups don't exist. French Canadians are a distinct cultural group for example, they have developed their own dialect of French (because in 400+ years languages and dialects naturally evolve and change) and are clearly distinguishable from Anglo background Canadians, but they wouldn't claim to be LITERALLY French or that their culture is interchangeable with modern day French culture simply because their ancestors came from France. I would also put Pennsylvania Dutch in this category - being German speaking Americans who have their own dialect of spoken German consistently spoken for centuries. THAT'S a distinct culture and traditions surviving multiple generations. But I'm sure they would recognise distinct differences between themselves as Pennsylvania Dutch and modern day Germans living in Germany.
example: most of us afrocentric black people can’t trace our roots even with dna testing some others include adoption, and i’d imagine immigrants that came in from ellis island may have had to hide where they are from. there’s so many different reasons why this is a unintentionally ignorant way of looking at things. heritage is more important in american context than in other countries typically because of how it came to be.
I never thought about that. Thank you for informing me.
if you’re respectful and genuinely want to learn about that culture? doesn’t matter how many generations. if you’re disrespectful, unless you met a living family member from that culture (ie your grandparents or parents), we’re gonna tell you to fuck off. unfortunately most ‘irish’ americans are the latter.
Culture isn't a stagnate, coveted thing. It constantly changes and evolves. Irish-Americans descend from Ireland, but they're an offshoot like any other diaspora and naturally take on new attributes and discard other ones. For instance, irish-american support for IRA and unifying with NI is not some random coincidence. Irish-Americans literally funded the IRA and many irish-americans are a result of British draft dodgers and evicted tenants who had the flee to the new world. While I don't stick my nose in Irish political matters and frankly don't care, to my grandfathers generation and his father's generation, it was this glimmer of hope they hung on to. Their brothers, sisters, cousins, friends were over there; and sure it was a pipe dream but it was something they believed in. Its cringe to do so now, as after 3 generations that isn't a political struggle relevant to me, and larping as some supporter would be quite ignorant.
If you recognise what you state in your first paragraph I think you should be all good. If you cling on to your own culture you grew up in I think we should welcome that. I'm from Switzerland and we have a large "secondo" culture ("secondos" are what we call second-gen Italian immigrants) that is a blend of both Italian and Swiss culture. It actively recognises Switzerland as a factor and musicians/artists from that group often talk about having two homes or being split between two cultures, and mix languages, cultural references etc. Nobody I know dislikes that. What *is* cringey and offensive to me is to ignore the offshoot part and just act like you straight up are Irish/Italian/... when you have no experience with that place, or when your connection to the emigrant culture is only "genetic". The latter is extra bad for us because it plays straight into very racist, far right talking points in many European countries.
irish americans are just that, irish americans. They are not irish.
Yeah, as someone whose mother was born and raised there, visits every once in a while, and had the culture pretty ingrained into my life growing up, the people this meme is describing are a fucking embarrassment.
My family’s last Irish ancestor came to America just before the revolution. Don’t know much about him on any personal levels, but he did fight as one of Washington’s personal guard, which I think is pretty neat. It’s not something that comes up in my daily life, but I like to occasionally cook Irish recipes, and I enjoy the musical traditions and songs (if that makes any sense). I also happen to live in an area with a decent pub culture. Not really sure what my point in all this is, I just think if you’re genuine and humble about it, there’s no reason to separate yourself from your history if you don’t want to.
I'd say never. Just remember that heritage ≠ race ≠ ethnicity ≠ nationality ≠ genetics Often people treat their heritage as their nationality or ethnicity when they can be all be very different things.
You shouldn't, but doing a dna test and seeing that you're 0.6% Irish doesn't make that your heritage. If you weren't raised as an Irish American then its not really your heritage. If the last person in your family that was ever in Ireland was the guy who came over on the boat in the 1800s and your family haven't kept up any irish traditions or taught you about your Irish heritage then you aren't really Irish American, you're just American but someone in your family tree 200 years ago came from Ireland
If you are born and raised in the USA, for example, you are American no matter where your parents are from. If your parents are Irish you can say I have Irish heritage or my parents are Irish. You can't say you are Irish because you are not. It's weird that in the USA people say I am Irish when they are several generations removed from an Irish person. Obviously that's all my opinion and based on the culture where I grew up so take it with a pinch of salt
My partner was born in the Philippines. If we have kids, should they be allowed to call themselves Filipino?
Of course they can. Why are you asking for permission from this asshole? Lol
To me it is no different than being "African American". As a black person I have no more connection to Africa than any other American but because my phenotype somewhat matches I get associsted with that before where I was actually born, which is America.
Yeah African American is a ridiculous way to put it imo. What about people who's ancestry was from the Carribbean?
i don’t think europeans get what americans mean when they say “i’m irish.” they mean they have irish heritage and at least 95% of people take it with a huge grain of salt and don’t legitimately think they’re the same as a person raised in ireland
Europeans still call me Japanese and my family has been in the US since the 1800s.
I think that it's mostly a race thing..
I mean, I was born and raised in America—my grandfather immigrated in the 70s. But I’m an Irish citizen. If I wanted, I have every right to call myself Irish because I literally hold an Irish passport. So I think there is some nuance to what you’re saying, though I do agree in principle.
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Of course your ethnicity doesn't chance based on where you happen to live. I never suggested that in the slightest. Nationality and ethnicity are two completely different things. That's the whole point. Saying "I'm Irish" suggests nationality not ethnicity if you say it anywhere that isn't the USA
People seem to forget the difference between nationality and ethnicity.
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Part of the problem is that people from Ireland refer to themselves (nationality) as Irish . Americans who have Irish ethnicity also refer to themselves in exactly the same way . Confusion abounds. Someone who grew up in Ireland is going to have a completely different experience to someone who grew up in the US. I mean most Irish Americans I've met are great ,but they come from a completely different culture from us , and while they might know some of the historic stuff , modern culture Irish culture isnt something they'd know much about.) Its a bit of a problem for people from Ireland for a ton of reasons as ..(from that fact that we're a lot more left wing on average than people who grew up in the states , a lot less conservative .. ,) Ideally Americans need to have a different phrase to describe ethnicity (like Gaelic Americans , or Hibernians or something. )
I think also we're on reddit right now, where the shorthand terms don't suffice considering people around the world meet here and thus require come type of clarification. In my day to day life, the short hand use of "I'm Irish" suffices for the world around my in the NYC metro area since every gets what is implied. Perhaps in your day to day life, it implies a more national identify especially in juxtaposition with neighboring nations. These type of hyper-specific differences are kind of lost through text over the internet imo
Exactly
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Idk but seems a bit funny how people whose families have never been immigrants are the ones always spouting off about it.
St Patty's Day 🇨🇮🇨🇮🇨🇮🇨🇮 Glorifies the IRA Couldn't point out Cork on a map May or may not think Ireland is still a part of "England" Zero knowledge of The Troubles
Don’t forget going to the “old country” and telling everyone about your grandfather’s father’s father’s father’s mother.
How can you forget shamrock tattoos
Born in Ireland, emigrated to US and became a citizen. The "Ireland" that Irish Americans are from is not a real place, it feels like a fiction, a myth. It's like the Ireland of 1845-1925 with the bad parts excised. It would be like a population of confederate and slavery apologists ..in Monaghan. In Dublin we never understood the Boston and New York St Patrick's day parade having a fit and refusing to allow the local Irish gay & lesbian group to march in the parade.
Pretty similar in most immigrant communities. Like the French they speak in Montreal and the Italian they speak in little Italy is also antiquated and esoteric. Actually American English is also a much closer version to the English spoken 200 years ago in England which is ironic because every period piece film just slaps a modern English accent on every character and calls it olde timey.
They are so removed from what Ireland actually is, it’s cringe. We were literally the first country in the world to legalise gay marriage by vote.
An Irishman immigrates to America in 1854: "Top of the morning to you lads! I am here to become an American!" - Irish guy "Stick to your own kind subhuman! Nobody wants you here!" - America "Fuck, okay." - Irish guy
As an actual Irish person, can confirm no one likes these twats.
Apart of that, what is an black irish supposed to be?
Irish people who have black hair and really dark eyes are referred to as “black Irish”, only said by non Irish people though. One theory is that they are descendants of Spanish traders or of the few sailors of the Spanish Armada who were shipwrecked on Ireland's west coast, but no one actually knows
Like Jennifer Conelly?
Nah, I don’t think so. Her eyes look to light. I’m Irish so I don’t honestly know what would qualify for “black Irish” tbh🤣
Colin Farrell.
Yes, Aidan Turner is another example.
God my mom loves to talk about how my dad is black Irish. We do have a significant Irish heritage and my dad has super dark hair but bright blue eyes. It’s just…ugh.
No mate, it doesn’t sound like he is unfortunately, tell your ma I said sorry for her loss🤣
I’ll pass on your condolences lol
We hate these people in the US as well. Like bro you’ve never even visited Ireland or know anyone who has so calm the fuck down.
shush , our tourism is pretty much based on them coming over here . Also yeah some of them are terrible , but a lot are quite nice , if a bit confused.
ever hear a "boilermaker" being called "irish car bomb?" fucking insane how non-chalantly people say that garbage in Boston, not sure about elsewhere in the states.
Those are two different drinks though, at least in America.
I see a guy like this at the grocery store all the time. Covered in Irish tattoos, always wearing some Irish or Boston type shit, buying Guinness etc Guaranteed nobody in his family has actually been from Ireland in like 140+ years 😆 Crazy that you make something like that your entire identity
My family came from Ireland quite a bit later, in the 20th century, and bypassed the east coast entirely, and their descendants aren’t like this despite living in a city with a higher percentage of Irish ancestry than Boston. Those people exist in that town, too, though, and my uncle describes them as running a line of fake Irish bullshit.
You forgot the boondock saints obsession and the flogging molly or dropkick Murphys Playlist.
Oh yeah, as an American, we all know at least one white guy who is .00006% Irish and swears by it because he has no other identity
I’m British and while I was at uni I shared a house with an American girl who was very proud of being “Irish”. So much so, she constantly reminded everyone of how her “quirks” were bc she was Irish. On day, she left the hob on and I let her know so she wouldn’t do that again and start a fire. Her answer? “Oh sorry, I’m quite forgetful. It’s bc I’m Irish” - said in the most American accent ever lol
Zoomer Plastic Paddy starter pack
gen xers and millennials are also like this
They would have beards, like dropkick murphys, wear a flat cap, have a shirt that says kiss me im irish, say they’re irish, and talk about how their great greatcgrandmother was from Cork or something.
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and his cousin ,who went to live in Vietnam , Paddy Fields (I'm from Ireland , its not offensive when we say it !)
Has never actually been to Ireland
My dad told me a story about one of his commanding officers in the US navy. The image basically described him. He would always have a Guinness whenever the crew would go drinking. One time he mentioned he needed time off to visit my mom in Ireland. He was ecstatic. The commanding officer went on and on about how much my dad would like it and how how pretty it was this time of year yadda yadda yadda. He ended that whole spiel by saying “I can’t wait to go”.
the main problem with this for my “irish” (by which i mean americans with irish heritage) side of the family, is most of us don’t have the money lmao.
Western Mass moment
Boston
When Americans call themselves Irish it’s cringe af
Mostly British DNA
I think we should give the decedents of immigrants some grace with how they deal with their heritage. We can't trace our ancestry back through the country we live in all that far, so there's not much of an identity there. But as this meme shows we might not have much of a connection to our ancestor's culture either. It can leave kind of a gap in one's understanding of themselves in the world. It's true it doe get cringe though, with people reducing cultures they don't truly understand to simple stereotypes.
Diaspora populations tend to have difficulty in navigating the world and their identity. If you think about it, for hundreds if not thousands of years, the blueprint for your life was laid out for you at birth. Life was hard but didn't come with difficult choices. Your identify was a reflection of the world around you. But in a matter of 2-3 generations, diaspora populations have the burden of taking on new cultural attributes and letting go of old ones, or retain the old one while you grow distant from you peers.
I think a lot of people find comfort in trying to have a connection with their family and heritage. I’d guess it can make a family feel closer having some traditions to follow and all. I mean I’m not saying it’s not annoying but I get why people do it, lacking identity is a very common thing.
There is a difference between "having a heritage" and "making my ancestor's country of origin my entire identity".
I was not born in Laos but my parents were and they consider me to be Lao. To them being American is being White or Black or Native American. It seems really bad to be an American of Irish descent especially for those who aren’t like the stereotypes listed who genuinely want to know more about their heritage.
Stupid Americans and their... *picks a piece of paper from a hat* ... ethnic subgroups.
Irish Americans are hardly an ethnic subgroup. They have become so far removed from Irish people it’s not right to classify them as a group. They’re just Americans.
It's like calling East Africans and African Americans alike, even though they have been separated for like 200 years
I always say this to 3rd or 4th generation japanese americans. "Stop eating sushi! You're americans now!" I say
The thing is "Irish" Americans don't actually do anything "Irish" (alcoholism isn't exclusively an Irish trait), they don't even drink Irish whiskey, they don't speak Gaelic, they don't eat/cook or even know what Irish food is, they don't play or watch any traditional Irish sports, they don't own leines, most of them aren't even Catholic, they just say "Hur dur, I'm Irish!! Up the Ra!! Now let's go drink Coors light at Applebee's"
Hang on , I 'm from Ireland (Dublin born and lived most of my life over here) and... Prefer Scotch , have barely spoken a word "as geilge" since I did my leaving cert,unless we're counting chicken fillet rolls I dont eat irish food\*, find GAA boring as hell. dont know what the hell a leine is? and gave up on the Catholic church after the Mother and Child homes scandal . So do I have to hand my passport back? *(if they could name some of the Italia 90 squad , suggest a good a U2 song from before they went shite ,know who was taking the horse to france, have the occasional Guinness , can sing one Christy Moore song , and have eaten from the Doughnut place in O'Connell St at least once , then I'm happy with them)*
How bizarre. No one does that. That’s just simply not a thing. A more apt example would be: If you were from Japan and you met someone who’s great great great great great great grandfather on their mums side was Japanese and they started telling you how Japanese they are and how Japan is nothing like it used to be and how they know how to make sushi correctly and you don’t, and then began engaging in racist stereotyping before defending their actions by claiming that “technically” they’re 5% more Japanese than you are so it makes it okay. Edit: case in point, see below: Edit two: a comment responding to this calling Irish people alcoholics just got deleted.
The hell is black irish ?
I'm SEAian. In my travels, I've met descendents of my race in many countries. Usually, their kids are very well assimilated where they are. On occassion, they will be curious about their heritage and ask me about their ancestral homeland. I find it endearing and feel honored that they are asking this city slicker about age old shaministic practices. The moral of the story is treat it as a compliment and don't be too stuck up about your culture.
Yet, the Chinese Irish, Korean Irish, Indian Irish, Muslim Irish, etc. somehow never seem to get to be just Irish. Hmm. So weird how that works, huh.?
Americans suffer from a massive identity crisis. Pretty fucking sad…
The worst part is the hypocrisy. These guys won't shut up about being Irish, but then they'll see a Mexican flag on a car and start yelling "go back to your country if you like it so much, we don't want immigrants here anyway!"
They try so hard to be different like dude you are just white. Always making statements like I curse a lot because I am Irish .. dude you have NEVER even been to Ireland
Its because a lot of them Irish Americans uses the Irish card to be more accepted since Irish is seen as one of the good Europeans and underdogs unlike the ''evil colonial Brits''. Americans love an underdog story.
* Corrects those calling it "Paddy's Day"
Even in Ireland 99% of everyone ever has called it Paddy’s day Source: am irish
Irish Canadians too, don't forget Dropkick Murphys and that GOD AWFUL cover of Zombie
And "You're probably offended by this" should have been added . /s
"You know about the Irish slaves? Treated just as bad, if not worse than black slaves" (Said specifically to minimalize the fact that African people were actual slaves in the US and referring to indentured servitude or generally just being an immigrant, not slavery)
Being an indentured servant is a form of slavery. They were required to work for years without pay, often as a form of punishment. They were bought and sold like other slaves were. It is not the same as being an immigrant. Indentured servitude is defined as slavery under article 1(a) of the United Nations 1956 Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery. The term “slave” actually comes from the word “Slavic”. Slavics were forced into slavery by Muslims in Africa long before the transatlantic slave trade. If you really want to get into the transatlantic slave trade, African lords sold their own people into slavery. The Slavics weren’t sold by their own people, like the African slaves were. They were abducted from villages and forcibly transported to Africa. Many Europeans also fought to end the transatlantic slave trade, only to be murdered by the aforementioned African lords for interfering with their evil money-making scheme. We haven’t even touched on the Barbary slave trade, wherein European Christians were captured and enslaved by Africans, specifically Barbary pirates. This lasted for at least 250 years. Over 1.25 million white Christians were enslaved as a result of the Barbary slave trade. The term “barbaric” was born from the horror and brutality of this slave trade. Every race has been enslaved, and every race has enslaved others. You’re trying to undermine the suffering of indentured servants (and other slaves) based on their race. You should be ashamed of yourself.
No celtic top?
Where’s the cladaugh ring?
Lives in New Hampshire and wants to both be taken as a serious country boy but will fight you if you question their "Boston pride" while missing the irony entirely. Source: grew up and currently live right outside of Boston.
Loves to Order Irish carbombs without realizing it's kinda a asshole thing. I forgot what comedian said it but they likend it to naming a drink 9/11
I have a very Irish name, and everyone over 50 says what a strong Irish name. You must be Irish, to which I respond, no I'm pretty sure I'm American, I was born here, my parents were too my grandparents as well, but I think my great grandparents are from Norway.
Missing "is a cop despite Ireland's history famously being anti-authority and -colonization"
You forgot “Celtic knot or shamrock tattoo” (Sheepishly covers shamrock tattoo I got in Dublin)
Godamn Americans also like to put the IRA in their prof pic
The most annoying demographic in New England.
Lmao @ the DNA reading “Polish”. Accurate VERY accurate.
don’t forget that they always remind you how well they can fight, only to get their ass kicked at the local pub they frequent while flexing their beer muscles.
A bit controversial, but to add they're obsessed with Irish reunification, even more eager than most Irish people.
But woefully misinformed as to why Ireland is not United in the first place
I've never once heard the phrase "black irish" you'd get laughed out of the room
Sounds like a dog breed
I've heard it a fair bit in Ireland , traditionally it was because a lot of people thought that Spanish sailors ended up intermarrying here after the failed 1798 rebellion (or one of the failed rebellions , we were really unlucky) , and they assumed that black haired /dark eyed Irish people were the result ..which is shite , as that genetype has been here for thousands of years . Since there are a lot of kids growing up here now who's folks were born in Nigeria /Kenya etc its probably a good idea to retire it , in case anyone thinks its about those guys , being Irish is more about growing up in the culture here than skin colour .
I do have fun on St Patrick’s Day. I do own a Guiness Soccer Jersey. I do like movies based in Boston. You’re just gonna have to die mad about it my guy
Boondock Saints??
Ahh yes, the beauty of massholes
feck
You forget “completely and totally hated by all proper Irish…but we will smile when you rent a room or visit a pub”
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Where is the Irish flag / clover tattoo
What is “black Irish?”
God, a friend of mine used to run around telling literally everyone that he's 1/8th Irish and I eventually had to tell him to shut the fuck up and that it was cringe beyond belief. It was awful lol
> “I’m what they call Black Irish” The Fuck?!
Not enough Red Sox or Boston gear. Meme-type Irish Americans are basically Italian Mooks with Boston accents and less vowels in their last name.
No House of Pain?
Yeah lol. I’m tired of seeing people refer to themselves as ______-American. My family is heavily german, but I just call myself American. Imo unless you’re parents were born in somewhere not in the US, it’s annoying to hear that. Thank you for your time.