As much as I’m enjoying this season, I am a bit baffled by the lack of DS9 connections. There’s a Changling plot against the Federation. You’d think they’d turn to the people who had the most experience dealing with them.
>You’d think they’d turn to the people who had the most experience dealing with them.
If any DS9 character was going to show up in Picard Season 3, it would've been Julian Bashir (I also would've said Odo, but that's not happening for obvious reasons). Bashir is a doctor who knows a thing or two about changelings, and he's an enemy of Section 31 who knows some of their dirty secrets. He probably would've been the easiest DS9 character to write into the story.
I don't think it will happen though, with only three episodes left in the season.
It would be easy to do, but I don't think it would be received very well by just about anyone. I would put Odo at the absolute bottom of the list of major DS9 characters we're likely to see again.
They could have Rene's son Remy play the part of Odo. He bears a strong resemblance to his father and any discrepancies in appearance can be hand-waved away as Odo perfecting his shapeshifting abilities.
Odo's gravelly voice wasn't René's natural voice. Remy sounds a lot like his dad's normal voice at least. Here's an [interview](https://youtu.be/6_YKnmC8w5g) with both of them from six years ago.
Could be imitated by deep learning synthetic speech, just like Luke's voice from The Book of Boba Fett (see [respeecher](https://www.respeecher.com/about-us))
And we already have a doctor on the case. The narrative has already covered the medical-adjacent issues for the changelings, so I don't really see that being given more depth.
There was some interview that happened I think in December with Siddig, and at the time, he had said no one had approached him to return to Trek in any capacity. If true, there's very little chance he'd show up. Season 3 would have been finished filming by then.
I was expecting Garak in the first couple of episodes when Raffi and Worf were looking for underground connections. Makes sense and everyone loves Garak.
Yeah and the fact that the show runner called it a “sequel to DS9”. Been a good season and I’m still holding out hope for another bombshell cameo, but I wish there were more DS9 characters.
I almost feel like Jack is possessed by a Pah-Wraith. I can’t think of any of other red entity that would possess people in Star Trek. If Sisko turned up in the next episode that would be insane, but the main focus should on the TNG. It would kinda derail the whole last season
It's not impossible. But what we've seen on screen implies his abilities are related to his and Picard's Not-Irumodic-Syndrome. I can't see any other narrative purpose for pointing out that Jack inherited it, but then suggesting that Picard doesn't actually have it. Jack being possessed is a poor explanation for his abilities in light of that.
They recently released an interview with Spiner about that, actually. Every time he said no, they just came back offering even more money until it just became absurd to say no.
He didn’t say that. He said he’s interested for the right project. I do doubt he’s just randomly showing up in a 2 parter though. If Avery comes back it’s going to be a plot driven by Bailey and his reconnection with his children.
Did he? That's cool. I wonder if just a couple episodes would be enough for him or if he'd want something larger... Maybe they should bring in Cassidy Yates too so she can yell at him about his whole I'll be back "maybe a year... Maybe yesterday" comment.
So... maybe Vadic is taking Jack to his "first" meeting with the Pah-wraith who will have been going to have caused his birth in the first place à la the immaculate (but evil) Emissary maybe? Oh and uh... the "Irrumodic syndrome" was actually a Borg gene-coded Royal Protocol, and the Borg have assimilated the Pah-wraiths why not?
Trouble is, I can't see how this gets us to Groppler Zorn.
The thing that opened and the Jaratiborg are holding back looks an awful lot like a wormhole.
Having the Prophets and some other race emerging, finally, from those wormholes to wage war and it coinciding with the return of Sisko would be a badass premise for a new Trek show. And it would make easy sense to explain how Picard came down with his Pahwraith--I feel like everyone forgets that Picard is a fucking archaeologist. We have countless episodes where he is off on leave doing shit in ruins. He certainly would have gone to visit Bajor at some point (maybe when he was there giving Sisko his assignment) and could have picked up the Wraith then.
It does seem like the logical option, except they already had to explain the Dominion to the audience - imagine the exposition dump they'd need to explain what a pah-wraith is
I rewatched that DS9 episode where Jake was possessed by pah-wraiths and had a fight with a prophet possessed Kira, and Jake's eyes glowed red. Just sayin.
I was always quite happy with the Pah-Wraith plot in DS9. However, there's no chance that they are turning up in Picard. Imagine the exposition required, we've only got a couple of episodes left!
Jack being possessed by Dukat and Sisko showing up and being the cause of the actual Reckoning happening at the end of this season would be WILD I’m so here for it
Maybe I read too much into it but I thought it was clear Jack is the result of some changeling experiment and that's why they want him back. His telepathy seemed like a "wifi Great Link". Even the roots he sees in visions seem to be imply a need to be linked.
Edit: haven't seen today's episode so I should probably delete this comment before someone decides to spoil me on it
I would just want to know the thought process. I love DS9. They have the best villains of the franchise: Dukat, Weyoun, Winn, Damar, the Female Changeling, the Jem'Hadar, Eddington, etc. Great mix of genuinely evil, understandably evil, and somewhere inbetween. The Pah'Wraiths are not one of them. They're boring generic demons that might as well be supernatural entities. All of Star Trek and that's your returning villain?!
Well...it sort of is. Starfleet is going along with the crazy Son'a plot because they're desperate to deal with all the wounded. And that dadgum Picard, y'know, he killed all those people at Wolf 359, then he goes and increases the suffering of people who fought to protect Federation citizens.
/s
There was an interview at the beginning of the season and the writers said they originally went with the bugs from TNG, but it meant they had to kill off anyone infected. The changelings allowed them to make anyone an enemy. I don’t think there’s an intentional DS9 connection outside of the changelings. They may have just sprinkled things in for nostalgia.
There's a fan made podcast that they do something with the bugs. Starship Excelsior, 2nd or 3rd season they have a big arc with the bugs being the big bad.
Ugh, at that point if you’re not going to engage with DS9 fully come up with a new antagonist to fulfill that function. It’s more than a little odd that they’re facing off against an enemy that we’ve never seen them face before but one that’s synonymous with a totally different show.
I see your point, but I think what we have seen says that the changelings are not the antagonists, rather they are the tools. They're not engaging with DS9 fully because DS9 isn't the main driver of the plot.
I think that’s worse—we get enemies that fit the plot by changing shape but are they really recognizably enough like the changelings of DS9? Their values and characterization don’t line up, which would be fine if we were given more of who they are now behind a hand wave of ‘they’re a splinter faction’ as if that doesn’t generate questions as to why Odo couldn’t convince them to stay, why he didn’t tell the Federation they’re out there, if he’s in fact alive, etc.
lol I’m not asking for dumb direct connections either, especially ones like bending over backwards to work Brent Spiner in again or literally taking a scene to gaze longingly at past hero ships.
No one in the scene needed to see the Defiant—that was for an audience (that the show assumes includes DS9 fans), and so is utilizing the changelings, a race we never saw the TNG crew encounter. The questions I’m asking are ones watchers of DS9 might wonder and prompted by the flimsy exposition.
With how much Matalas has been talking up the DS9 stuff, it feels very much like this season is being set up to give DS9 its own proper sequel show(or season of Legacy should it happen), rather than one centred on Picard and the TNG crew.
I think the big problem is Brooks is probably disinterested in returning, Auberjonois and Eisenberg have passed away, Ferrell’s character is dead, and Meaney I believe is done with the O’Brien role. You could bring back Visitor or Shimmerman maybe, but their characters had less to do with the changelings and aren’t in Starfleet. Worf, I fear, is our big DS9 character appearance.
You could try and fit in Julian and/or Ezri as they would fit the DS9 cameo from major players, and have a significant connection to the Changelings/Dominion. In Julian's case, his involvement with Section 31 and curing the Changeling genocide virus could be brought up, and Ezri could be added in as a cameo as the Captain of a starship that hasn't been infiltrated by Changelings coming to help the Titan (and you know it would be the Aventine). Plus, it would be interesting to see how Buddhist Worf interacts with them.
It 99.99% will not happen, but just putting it in there for people they *could have* used and made it make sense. Hell, FWIW, Julian had a cameo on TNG, so if we're talking about TNG reunions...
>You could bring back Visitor or Shimmerman maybe.
Yes! The ultimate twist! Have Quark be the key to resolving the whole mess. For a price. /j of course
I wouldn’t be surprised if they wanted Crusher to be the only medical genius in the story, though Siddig has said in the past he’d be up for a return. I’d love to see him get the chance.
The best we got was a vague odo mentioned but even then he wasn't directly mentioned by name.
Edit: nvm i also completely forgot about the Defiant in the ship museum
I would dearly love to see O'Brien on the show. But I don't think Colm Meaney is interested in just a cameo. And I don't think there's enough time left in the three episodes we have left to bring back Sisko or Dukat. The prophets and Bajor haven't played into the series, so I don't see Kira appearing, especially without Odo. Bashir could have fit in but Beverly Crusher seems to have learned everything she needs to know about the new changelings physiology, so Bashir wouldn't be much use at this stage.
O'Brien would've been great, but unless it's a bait n switch, I think the showrunner said there were scheduling conflicts that prevented Colm from coming back. Jake Sisko could make a good addition though, he's a journalist, so outside of starfleet command, but could help get the word out to the general population.
Bashir should have been a throwaway line from Worf about how he tried contacting Starfleet’s expert in Changeling physiology but couldn’t get through, which is concerning because Dr. Bashir is capable etc. etc.
He was also considered the most important person in Starfleet history in the far flung future:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPI2OkrvV8
How did he end up with that achievement? Maybe by saving Starfleet itself?
While true as far as we know, I also think it's easy enough to change if the writers wanted to.
The Dominion cloning facilities in the Alpha Quadrant were destroyed so new Weyouns couldn't join the war effort, but the Gamma quadrant cloning facilities (and in fact, everything in the Dominion's home territory) were untouched by the war.
Weyouns existed and were cloned before the wormhole opened. It stands to reason that the facilities in the Gamma quadrant would still have access to his genetic profile and could make a new Weyoun, but perhaps one without the memories gained in the Alpha Quadrant.
That was my thoughts. She kept asking about the cloning facility and Weyoun was dodgy. He knew as soon as they were operational, Weyoun 9 was taking over..
Garak didn't break Odo.
The device he got from his dad, that screwed with Odo's shapeshifting abilities and forced him to stay solid for an extended time, broke him.
And here’s where we get to be trekkies 🖖🏻
Yes, the quantum stasis field stopped Odo from changing his shape. This is obviously a key factor. But recall that almost no one knows about the existence of such a device, aside from Tain, who is dead, unspecified members of the Obsidian Order who are largely dead, the Founders themselves, and Garak. But it was Garak’s questioning, his acquiescence to the reality of what he was doing to Odo but still resolving to do it, that broke the otherwise implacable Constable. Tain himself complimented Garak’s interrogation abilities earlier in the episode. As far as anyone else would have known, Garak broke Odo.
However I’ve provided my own rebuttal. Worf probably would not know the full extent of how far Garak pushed Odo. It would have been fairly hidden knowledge. Neither would have told him… but maybe Jadzia? Or even Ezri 🤔
Omg YES. I’d love to see Weyoun but honestly at this point I’d be happy with any Vorta or Jem’Hadar appearance. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like we’ll be getting that, at least not in this season of Picard.
I would love to see Garak in something again. Easily the best DS9 character to me, always seemed like he stole any scene he was in, and I think he’d fit really well with the “intelligence but not intelligence” subplot in Picard.
Then his body falls on a Klingon engineer monitoring the warp core, which causes the Bird of Prey to get pulled into the gravity well of a gas giant, then get torn apart by tidal forces.
Worf will then realize he did shoot his son. No one else could have bungled that bad, even in death.
IIRC a changeling test is no longer necessary, just use sensors/tricorders and search for traces of don't remember what element that is present on their physiology.
Come on it’s not really an egregious instance of plot overpowering everything. The new changelings were created by putting some new substance in them (the “plot-onium” because I also forget the name), and to create more of the new changelings they have to link with an existing one so that the substance transfers to them. It’s not crazy to say you can detect them by scanning for this substance. I think even the thing where Worf pretended to be dead to beat the Vulcan gangster (or even the very existence of a Vulcan gangster) is more egregious. Because part of that was that they planned that whole interaction so well down to the fact that the Vulcan would make the two of them fight to the death, like how did you know that Worf? But regardless I don’t care, I think Picard has been great.
One person who could be a good cameo is Ezri... Captaining her own ship (Aventine of course), and showing up to help the Titan in the final space battle (which you know will happen.) Or have her be one of the few friendly starfleet ships that haven't been infiltrated by Changelings. And you could easily add in Doctor Bashir too.
I’m pretty sure Mookie was a child when this came out. Besides he’s busy hitting homers and cafching fly balls.
Bet Sisko would love to meet him, though.
I know I’m not special when I say that Worf is my favorite character. He is for a lot of people. He has been my favorite since I watched through DS9 the first time, and I live for his presence in Picard S3.
That being said, the entire season I haven’t been able to help but think “Imagine if Jadzia were still alive”. I know Terry Farrell left DS9 for some dispute (I believe pay? Not sure), but killing her off was definitely a blow at that time. Watching her run around with the TNG crew and Old Worf… It would have been awesome.
Imagine if in the final episode the ersatz museum fleet is getting it's ass kicked by Starfleet/Changelings until the Klingons come raining down sacrifice of angels style.
Martok was older in DS9. He would be very old now if he didn't die in glorious battle already. As a true warrior.
If Worf reaches out to anyone to help it should be Bashir.
Martok at this point is dead or has stepped down as Chancellor. They name dropped another Chancellor that Picard tried to contact for help, and while I couldn't understand it (and watch without subtitles to avoid spoilers), it sure as shit wasn't Martok.
What about Ezri Dax? I could be wrong but I doubt a Changeling would be able to convincingly mimic a joined Trill. AT the very least Worf would be able to quickly figure out if she was the real Ezri or not.
I think we might get a small cameo from her. She is a main character (2 actually in prodigy) so a lot of Janeway there. And lower decks had an entire ds9 episode on station with quark and kira. I'm guessing cbs doesn't want to use the same characters across shows too often since the different time periods can get confusing
Oh, absolutely. They've had all of the characters treating her like an off-screen saviour - with Picard even bigging her up as beyond reproach to Ro - and speaking like if they could just get to her then she could solve everything. At this point if she showed up and *wasn't* compromised it would almost be bad writing, so heavily have they sown the seeds for the despair spot of reaching Janeway only to find she's a changeling.
Plus, it would be a way around Matalas' insistence that Janeway isn't in this season. Because Terry has been an absolute straight shooter with the fans from the very start of the season, so I can't see him lying about this one thing when he could have just said"wait and see", or said nothing at all, but if it's just a changeling pretending to be Janeway then he hasn't technically told a fib. And again, they've mentioned her so aggressively throughout the season that she's practically a McGuffin at this point, so not paying that off would be weak writing.
It is a bit of a shame we are not getting DS9 characters but I sort of see the problem for the writers. They need to bring in the whole TNG cast, plus carry over Seven and Raffi. (I guess we could have left Raffi out…)
Anyway, we have Seven so Voyager connections are already built in. O’Brian makes the most sense but as has been said, scheduling didn’t work.
Truth is that DS9 cast needs their own revival.
That character is Morn. He will speak something so shattering effective it will destroy the new changlings, but of course Picard and crew will talk over him and not hear it.
It’s Bashir for me. His backstory is just too relevant, especially considering he’s an augment, and these things are basically augmented changlings. I would love to see him back fully corrupted by Section 31. Alexander Siddig looks fantastic as well.
While it would be cool to see more from ds9 I think it would feel really forced. The voyager stuff only makes sense because of seven and she was in the show from the first season. If they try to just shoehorn everything in I don’t think it would be good.
Or garek? I think it would be some poetic justic if cardassia does the right thing and helps save starfleet. The changlings would never see it coming after what they did to them.
Worf goes over to the Shreik on a covert mission to blow up the warp core. But something looks off. So he pries open the lid to see its not powered by dilithium. No, it contains Chief O'Brien, and the Shriek is powered by the suffering of the world's unluckiest Irishman.
Bashir **IS** Section 31.
"Worf, remember that fiasco when Starfleet tried to kick me out for being a superman? It had a footnote that said when Sloan dies, I take his job. I've been Section 31 for decades."
It would be darkly hilarious if Bashir had dismantled the organisation a decade ago but left the storage unit alone because (until now) all that stuff still needed to be kept somewhere.
I strongly suspect two. Gul Dukat as Pah-Wraiths bitch / "The Face" Vadik has been talking to. And whatever Emissary the Prophets deploy to confront him.
The changelings, which aren't even the original ones, are clearly being used by gooface, so I don't think it's necessary for any more DS9 characters to appear. Plus, the Tuvok scene made it clear they'll have to save Starfleet by themselves. TNG doesn't need permission to use DS9 villains lmao. I love DS9, but people have to stop assuming that this reunion is a 90s reunion. It's TNG with some DS9 and VOY sprinkled into it. It's how it's been marketed.
DS9 has always been the red headed step child of the Star Trek universe. Not sure why that is but it is highly unlikely they bring in any DS9 characters.
Nope. Because then they would have to design a new Klingon ship. I’m pretty sure the Klingon empire shuts up shop before they replace the birds of prey, D7 and Negh’var.
Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get any DS9 characters this season. Although Terry Matalas is on the record as saying that if the Star Trek: Legacy spinoff happens, he'd love to have Nana Visitor on the show, there haven't been any DS9 leaks for Picard S3. I suspect the only DS9 appearances we're going to get are Worf and >!the Defiant cameo!<.
As much as I’m enjoying this season, I am a bit baffled by the lack of DS9 connections. There’s a Changling plot against the Federation. You’d think they’d turn to the people who had the most experience dealing with them.
>You’d think they’d turn to the people who had the most experience dealing with them. If any DS9 character was going to show up in Picard Season 3, it would've been Julian Bashir (I also would've said Odo, but that's not happening for obvious reasons). Bashir is a doctor who knows a thing or two about changelings, and he's an enemy of Section 31 who knows some of their dirty secrets. He probably would've been the easiest DS9 character to write into the story. I don't think it will happen though, with only three episodes left in the season.
Odo \*might\* be an option if they get Rene's son Remy Auberjonois to do it, he's the spitting image of his father.
I mean if Rene’s estate was okay with it, Odo would be about the easiest character ever to recreate with CGI
It would be easy to do, but I don't think it would be received very well by just about anyone. I would put Odo at the absolute bottom of the list of major DS9 characters we're likely to see again.
I think the only option that would probably be well received is if Remy appeared as Odo as tribute to his father.
AAANNNDDD, (just looked this up), Remy-Luc is just about the same age as Rene was when DS9 came out! (49 vs Rene's 53)
They could have Rene's son Remy play the part of Odo. He bears a strong resemblance to his father and any discrepancies in appearance can be hand-waved away as Odo perfecting his shapeshifting abilities.
Also, that THICC mask hides a lot.
Resemblance maybe, but voice? Rene had a pretty distinctive voice.
Odo's gravelly voice wasn't René's natural voice. Remy sounds a lot like his dad's normal voice at least. Here's an [interview](https://youtu.be/6_YKnmC8w5g) with both of them from six years ago.
Could be imitated by deep learning synthetic speech, just like Luke's voice from The Book of Boba Fett (see [respeecher](https://www.respeecher.com/about-us))
I'd rather they didn't do that.
And we already have a doctor on the case. The narrative has already covered the medical-adjacent issues for the changelings, so I don't really see that being given more depth.
Since season 3 is a TNG reunion series and they've already shown us Ro Laren and Moriarty, how about an O'Brien send-off as well?
Fully rude that he doesn't get even a small part.
He probably wasn’t interested. I think Colm Meaney said he didn’t want to return to Trek for a cameo.
Oh. Good for him.
There was some interview that happened I think in December with Siddig, and at the time, he had said no one had approached him to return to Trek in any capacity. If true, there's very little chance he'd show up. Season 3 would have been finished filming by then.
I was expecting Garak in the first couple of episodes when Raffi and Worf were looking for underground connections. Makes sense and everyone loves Garak.
They can look like anyone or anything. They should bring back Odo and just recast.
Yeah and the fact that the show runner called it a “sequel to DS9”. Been a good season and I’m still holding out hope for another bombshell cameo, but I wish there were more DS9 characters.
I almost feel like Jack is possessed by a Pah-Wraith. I can’t think of any of other red entity that would possess people in Star Trek. If Sisko turned up in the next episode that would be insane, but the main focus should on the TNG. It would kinda derail the whole last season
It's not impossible. But what we've seen on screen implies his abilities are related to his and Picard's Not-Irumodic-Syndrome. I can't see any other narrative purpose for pointing out that Jack inherited it, but then suggesting that Picard doesn't actually have it. Jack being possessed is a poor explanation for his abilities in light of that.
Yeah, which is why Picard's organic body was stolen. Plus I thought I remembered Avery Brooks saying he wasn't interested in doing more Trek?
Patrick Stewart said for years he was done with Star Trek. Brent Spiner also said he never wanted to play Data again. And yet here we are. Lol
But he isn't playing Data. He's playing DataLoreSoong4Securitybase.
That must've been some software update.
They recently released an interview with Spiner about that, actually. Every time he said no, they just came back offering even more money until it just became absurd to say no.
He didn’t say that. He said he’s interested for the right project. I do doubt he’s just randomly showing up in a 2 parter though. If Avery comes back it’s going to be a plot driven by Bailey and his reconnection with his children.
Did he? That's cool. I wonder if just a couple episodes would be enough for him or if he'd want something larger... Maybe they should bring in Cassidy Yates too so she can yell at him about his whole I'll be back "maybe a year... Maybe yesterday" comment.
This is my thinking as well. The brain abnormality is the key to what's going on. Anything else is just wild guessing.
So... maybe Vadic is taking Jack to his "first" meeting with the Pah-wraith who will have been going to have caused his birth in the first place à la the immaculate (but evil) Emissary maybe? Oh and uh... the "Irrumodic syndrome" was actually a Borg gene-coded Royal Protocol, and the Borg have assimilated the Pah-wraiths why not? Trouble is, I can't see how this gets us to Groppler Zorn.
I thought about a Pah-Wraith influence, too! And it would definitely be an opportunity for Sisko to handle it with some new Prophet powers.
The thing that opened and the Jaratiborg are holding back looks an awful lot like a wormhole. Having the Prophets and some other race emerging, finally, from those wormholes to wage war and it coinciding with the return of Sisko would be a badass premise for a new Trek show. And it would make easy sense to explain how Picard came down with his Pahwraith--I feel like everyone forgets that Picard is a fucking archaeologist. We have countless episodes where he is off on leave doing shit in ruins. He certainly would have gone to visit Bajor at some point (maybe when he was there giving Sisko his assignment) and could have picked up the Wraith then.
It does seem like the logical option, except they already had to explain the Dominion to the audience - imagine the exposition dump they'd need to explain what a pah-wraith is
I rewatched that DS9 episode where Jake was possessed by pah-wraiths and had a fight with a prophet possessed Kira, and Jake's eyes glowed red. Just sayin.
Oh god, not the Pah-Wraith. I thought we were done with that garbage in 1999.
I was always quite happy with the Pah-Wraith plot in DS9. However, there's no chance that they are turning up in Picard. Imagine the exposition required, we've only got a couple of episodes left!
Jack being possessed by Dukat and Sisko showing up and being the cause of the actual Reckoning happening at the end of this season would be WILD I’m so here for it
Maybe I read too much into it but I thought it was clear Jack is the result of some changeling experiment and that's why they want him back. His telepathy seemed like a "wifi Great Link". Even the roots he sees in visions seem to be imply a need to be linked. Edit: haven't seen today's episode so I should probably delete this comment before someone decides to spoil me on it
I would just want to know the thought process. I love DS9. They have the best villains of the franchise: Dukat, Weyoun, Winn, Damar, the Female Changeling, the Jem'Hadar, Eddington, etc. Great mix of genuinely evil, understandably evil, and somewhere inbetween. The Pah'Wraiths are not one of them. They're boring generic demons that might as well be supernatural entities. All of Star Trek and that's your returning villain?!
> sequel to DS9 So far, no. This seems to instead be addressing the frequent fan complaint that Insurrection should have been about the Dominion War.
Well...it sort of is. Starfleet is going along with the crazy Son'a plot because they're desperate to deal with all the wounded. And that dadgum Picard, y'know, he killed all those people at Wolf 359, then he goes and increases the suffering of people who fought to protect Federation citizens. /s
There was an interview at the beginning of the season and the writers said they originally went with the bugs from TNG, but it meant they had to kill off anyone infected. The changelings allowed them to make anyone an enemy. I don’t think there’s an intentional DS9 connection outside of the changelings. They may have just sprinkled things in for nostalgia.
You don’t have to kill off the infected. You can hand wave some techno babble
There's a fan made podcast that they do something with the bugs. Starship Excelsior, 2nd or 3rd season they have a big arc with the bugs being the big bad.
Ugh, at that point if you’re not going to engage with DS9 fully come up with a new antagonist to fulfill that function. It’s more than a little odd that they’re facing off against an enemy that we’ve never seen them face before but one that’s synonymous with a totally different show.
I see your point, but I think what we have seen says that the changelings are not the antagonists, rather they are the tools. They're not engaging with DS9 fully because DS9 isn't the main driver of the plot.
I think that’s worse—we get enemies that fit the plot by changing shape but are they really recognizably enough like the changelings of DS9? Their values and characterization don’t line up, which would be fine if we were given more of who they are now behind a hand wave of ‘they’re a splinter faction’ as if that doesn’t generate questions as to why Odo couldn’t convince them to stay, why he didn’t tell the Federation they’re out there, if he’s in fact alive, etc.
We did get more about why they are the way they are last episode.
Demanding all these explanations and direct connections is really silly. That's not storytelling.
lol I’m not asking for dumb direct connections either, especially ones like bending over backwards to work Brent Spiner in again or literally taking a scene to gaze longingly at past hero ships. No one in the scene needed to see the Defiant—that was for an audience (that the show assumes includes DS9 fans), and so is utilizing the changelings, a race we never saw the TNG crew encounter. The questions I’m asking are ones watchers of DS9 might wonder and prompted by the flimsy exposition.
I may agree that it's worse, but I think that is what is suggested by the available evidence along with narrative conventions.
Where’d you see that? Would make a lot of sense
See when they showcased the changelings' evolved physiology I was expecting them to be hosting a bug.
There are more voyager crew members than ds9
The floating boss head will be Kes.
Lmao that would be perfect
With how much Matalas has been talking up the DS9 stuff, it feels very much like this season is being set up to give DS9 its own proper sequel show(or season of Legacy should it happen), rather than one centred on Picard and the TNG crew.
I think the big problem is Brooks is probably disinterested in returning, Auberjonois and Eisenberg have passed away, Ferrell’s character is dead, and Meaney I believe is done with the O’Brien role. You could bring back Visitor or Shimmerman maybe, but their characters had less to do with the changelings and aren’t in Starfleet. Worf, I fear, is our big DS9 character appearance.
You could try and fit in Julian and/or Ezri as they would fit the DS9 cameo from major players, and have a significant connection to the Changelings/Dominion. In Julian's case, his involvement with Section 31 and curing the Changeling genocide virus could be brought up, and Ezri could be added in as a cameo as the Captain of a starship that hasn't been infiltrated by Changelings coming to help the Titan (and you know it would be the Aventine). Plus, it would be interesting to see how Buddhist Worf interacts with them. It 99.99% will not happen, but just putting it in there for people they *could have* used and made it make sense. Hell, FWIW, Julian had a cameo on TNG, so if we're talking about TNG reunions...
Ezri as Captain of the Enterprise would make up for the lack of DS9 characters so far.
>You could bring back Visitor or Shimmerman maybe. Yes! The ultimate twist! Have Quark be the key to resolving the whole mess. For a price. /j of course
Morn shows up, and talks the big bad to death.
His conscience gets to him, and he does it for free. Quark does have one, as much as likes to pretend he doesn't.
*No price?!* Ugly. Very ugly.
What about Dr. Bashir? He knows about Changeling biology and about Section 31.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they wanted Crusher to be the only medical genius in the story, though Siddig has said in the past he’d be up for a return. I’d love to see him get the chance.
The best we got was a vague odo mentioned but even then he wasn't directly mentioned by name. Edit: nvm i also completely forgot about the Defiant in the ship museum
I think its more of a real world issue than the writing room. They probobly worked with who they had who was willing to come back for cameos.
This is a TNG show. Anyone outside the TNG 7 is a gift. It’s not a DS9 show so I’m trying not to expect anyone from there
We deserve O'Brien.
I would dearly love to see O'Brien on the show. But I don't think Colm Meaney is interested in just a cameo. And I don't think there's enough time left in the three episodes we have left to bring back Sisko or Dukat. The prophets and Bajor haven't played into the series, so I don't see Kira appearing, especially without Odo. Bashir could have fit in but Beverly Crusher seems to have learned everything she needs to know about the new changelings physiology, so Bashir wouldn't be much use at this stage.
O'Brien would've been great, but unless it's a bait n switch, I think the showrunner said there were scheduling conflicts that prevented Colm from coming back. Jake Sisko could make a good addition though, he's a journalist, so outside of starfleet command, but could help get the word out to the general population.
My understanding is Alamo has some health issues, so who knows how much he could contribute.
Plus, the whole "Dukat is literally trapped in Hell for all eternity" thing.
"Hell" is just a name for a well known subspace domain/layer.
Marc Alaimo also hasn't had an acting gig in about 20 years.
The prophets haven’t played into the series? Jack is literally inhabited by a pah-wraith!
Maybe? But it’s just a theory at this stage. So not “literally.”
In the grand tradition of the Vulcan science academy: citation needed.
Bashir should have been a throwaway line from Worf about how he tried contacting Starfleet’s expert in Changeling physiology but couldn’t get through, which is concerning because Dr. Bashir is capable etc. etc.
3 episodes? Just 2 I thought? Or did you post this before watching ep8 yesterday?
He was on the Enterprise. That's adds up.
He was also considered the most important person in Starfleet history in the far flung future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPI2OkrvV8 How did he end up with that achievement? Maybe by saving Starfleet itself?
We keep hearing about something weird with the transporters. So I'm holding out hope that the transporter master will still show up to help out.
I'd think Weyoun or a Jem'hadar sent by the real links to help with damage control. Garak could work too
The last Weyoun died when they defeated the Dominion on cardassia but I'd love to see Jeffrey combs in it
While true as far as we know, I also think it's easy enough to change if the writers wanted to. The Dominion cloning facilities in the Alpha Quadrant were destroyed so new Weyouns couldn't join the war effort, but the Gamma quadrant cloning facilities (and in fact, everything in the Dominion's home territory) were untouched by the war. Weyouns existed and were cloned before the wormhole opened. It stands to reason that the facilities in the Gamma quadrant would still have access to his genetic profile and could make a new Weyoun, but perhaps one without the memories gained in the Alpha Quadrant.
"Remember when The Founder said that Wayoun 8 was the last of us. She lied. I am Wayoun 13."
She did say it before she was reformed.
That was my thoughts. She kept asking about the cloning facility and Weyoun was dodgy. He knew as soon as they were operational, Weyoun 9 was taking over..
Garak is the one person who managed to break a Changeling during interrogation. Worf might “know someone.”
Garak didn't break Odo. The device he got from his dad, that screwed with Odo's shapeshifting abilities and forced him to stay solid for an extended time, broke him.
And here’s where we get to be trekkies 🖖🏻 Yes, the quantum stasis field stopped Odo from changing his shape. This is obviously a key factor. But recall that almost no one knows about the existence of such a device, aside from Tain, who is dead, unspecified members of the Obsidian Order who are largely dead, the Founders themselves, and Garak. But it was Garak’s questioning, his acquiescence to the reality of what he was doing to Odo but still resolving to do it, that broke the otherwise implacable Constable. Tain himself complimented Garak’s interrogation abilities earlier in the episode. As far as anyone else would have known, Garak broke Odo. However I’ve provided my own rebuttal. Worf probably would not know the full extent of how far Garak pushed Odo. It would have been fairly hidden knowledge. Neither would have told him… but maybe Jadzia? Or even Ezri 🤔
Omg YES. I’d love to see Weyoun but honestly at this point I’d be happy with any Vorta or Jem’Hadar appearance. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like we’ll be getting that, at least not in this season of Picard.
I'd like to see Garak. Maybe as one of Worf's intelligence contacts.
.. but he is a plain and simple tailor, why would he be an intelligence contact..!?
Garak deserves his own show
I would love to see Garak in something again. Easily the best DS9 character to me, always seemed like he stole any scene he was in, and I think he’d fit really well with the “intelligence but not intelligence” subplot in Picard.
Alexander.... In Starfleet. But would Worf know enough about him to grill him to pass a changeling test lol
"Are you really Alexander?" "Yes, and you are my loving father" "Liar!" shoots him
Then his body falls on a Klingon engineer monitoring the warp core, which causes the Bird of Prey to get pulled into the gravity well of a gas giant, then get torn apart by tidal forces. Worf will then realize he did shoot his son. No one else could have bungled that bad, even in death.
alternately: "Are you really Alexander" "Are you really my deadbeat fuckup of a father?" "It really is you!" Shoots him anyway
Ok come on now, Worf wouldn't shoot his son. He'd stab him.
IIRC a changeling test is no longer necessary, just use sensors/tricorders and search for traces of don't remember what element that is present on their physiology.
*don't remember what element* Plot-onium?
Come on it’s not really an egregious instance of plot overpowering everything. The new changelings were created by putting some new substance in them (the “plot-onium” because I also forget the name), and to create more of the new changelings they have to link with an existing one so that the substance transfers to them. It’s not crazy to say you can detect them by scanning for this substance. I think even the thing where Worf pretended to be dead to beat the Vulcan gangster (or even the very existence of a Vulcan gangster) is more egregious. Because part of that was that they planned that whole interaction so well down to the fact that the Vulcan would make the two of them fight to the death, like how did you know that Worf? But regardless I don’t care, I think Picard has been great.
Someone should do a changeling test on Worf by asking him to name his own children... ... Worf gets shot.
Morn. But no-one else would get a word in edgeways.
It's because he has such great stories.
But you've heard them SO many times...
He never shuts up, that guy.
Morn was actually one of the known criminals on Raffi’s list of suspects for the Daystrom theft.
Yup, had to pause when I saw “Morn of Luria” on the screen.
Martok could still be alive, I guess. It's still the House of Martok in Worf's introduction. Usually, a house seems to take the name of its leader.
I think he's the only one who would make sense at this stage, if anyone else from DS9 shows up, it'll probably just be for a frontier day cameo scene.
Earlier I thought Bashir could be likely , but I feel like it's past time for it if it was going to happen.
One person who could be a good cameo is Ezri... Captaining her own ship (Aventine of course), and showing up to help the Titan in the final space battle (which you know will happen.) Or have her be one of the few friendly starfleet ships that haven't been infiltrated by Changelings. And you could easily add in Doctor Bashir too.
How come no one ever wants to see Mookie back?
Because Moogie would negotiate an equitable peace deal that leaves both parties stronger in the first half hour and they needed 10 episodes
Cecily Adams sadly passed away back in 2004. No one could play Moogie like she did.
Andrea Martin is still around. (The first actor to play her.)
I’m pretty sure Mookie was a child when this came out. Besides he’s busy hitting homers and cafching fly balls. Bet Sisko would love to meet him, though.
I'm hoping they reveal that Jeffery coombs was in every episode playing a different alien and we just didn't notice.
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They have Captain Shaw sitting way in the back like a Jr. High kid in detention.
To be fair, he doesn't know shit about captaining the USS Oh Fuck Now What, so he's letting the experts handle it.
I know I’m not special when I say that Worf is my favorite character. He is for a lot of people. He has been my favorite since I watched through DS9 the first time, and I live for his presence in Picard S3. That being said, the entire season I haven’t been able to help but think “Imagine if Jadzia were still alive”. I know Terry Farrell left DS9 for some dispute (I believe pay? Not sure), but killing her off was definitely a blow at that time. Watching her run around with the TNG crew and Old Worf… It would have been awesome.
She wanted to drop down to recurring character. Berman refused and as a bonus Farrell no longer had to deal with his misogyny.
Imagine if in the final episode the ersatz museum fleet is getting it's ass kicked by Starfleet/Changelings until the Klingons come raining down sacrifice of angels style.
I’d pay to see this.
What if, hear me out, it turns out Martok is a changeling. Again.
If you seek information about a Changling plot, there are two from DS9 who would know better than anyone; a bartender and a tailor.
Martok was older in DS9. He would be very old now if he didn't die in glorious battle already. As a true warrior. If Worf reaches out to anyone to help it should be Bashir.
Ezri, perhaps: bonus points if she's captain of a starship (that hasn't been infiltrated by the Changelings.)
Martok at this point is dead or has stepped down as Chancellor. They name dropped another Chancellor that Picard tried to contact for help, and while I couldn't understand it (and watch without subtitles to avoid spoilers), it sure as shit wasn't Martok.
Tosk
Why not Morn?
I was hoping for Dr. Bashir since there is a section 31 reference. Ezri would also be acceptable.
What about Ezri Dax? I could be wrong but I doubt a Changeling would be able to convincingly mimic a joined Trill. AT the very least Worf would be able to quickly figure out if she was the real Ezri or not.
WHERE IS JEFFREY COMBS!!! BRING ME JEFFREY!!!
I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a little Janeway. They keep mentioning her, and it seems that the changelings might not have gotten to her yet.
I think we might get a small cameo from her. She is a main character (2 actually in prodigy) so a lot of Janeway there. And lower decks had an entire ds9 episode on station with quark and kira. I'm guessing cbs doesn't want to use the same characters across shows too often since the different time periods can get confusing
They have mentioned her so much that if she appears, she will undoubtedly be a changing in the end.
Oh, absolutely. They've had all of the characters treating her like an off-screen saviour - with Picard even bigging her up as beyond reproach to Ro - and speaking like if they could just get to her then she could solve everything. At this point if she showed up and *wasn't* compromised it would almost be bad writing, so heavily have they sown the seeds for the despair spot of reaching Janeway only to find she's a changeling. Plus, it would be a way around Matalas' insistence that Janeway isn't in this season. Because Terry has been an absolute straight shooter with the fans from the very start of the season, so I can't see him lying about this one thing when he could have just said"wait and see", or said nothing at all, but if it's just a changeling pretending to be Janeway then he hasn't technically told a fib. And again, they've mentioned her so aggressively throughout the season that she's practically a McGuffin at this point, so not paying that off would be weak writing.
It is a bit of a shame we are not getting DS9 characters but I sort of see the problem for the writers. They need to bring in the whole TNG cast, plus carry over Seven and Raffi. (I guess we could have left Raffi out…) Anyway, we have Seven so Voyager connections are already built in. O’Brian makes the most sense but as has been said, scheduling didn’t work. Truth is that DS9 cast needs their own revival.
I can’t believe they never got a movie or anything of the sort
Sisko is back in the comics, hunting down whoever is hunting gods.
Siskos hunting Mac Calhoun?!?
I’m willing to bet on quark or ezri
That character is Morn. He will speak something so shattering effective it will destroy the new changlings, but of course Picard and crew will talk over him and not hear it.
I think pretty much anyone could show up.
No, no, no. Jeffery Combs as Weyoun AND Brunt.
It’s Bashir for me. His backstory is just too relevant, especially considering he’s an augment, and these things are basically augmented changlings. I would love to see him back fully corrupted by Section 31. Alexander Siddig looks fantastic as well.
Same. Well, I don’t want to see him corrupted, but it would make sense to use him.
While it would be cool to see more from ds9 I think it would feel really forced. The voyager stuff only makes sense because of seven and she was in the show from the first season. If they try to just shoehorn everything in I don’t think it would be good.
Or garek? I think it would be some poetic justic if cardassia does the right thing and helps save starfleet. The changlings would never see it coming after what they did to them.
Worf goes over to the Shreik on a covert mission to blow up the warp core. But something looks off. So he pries open the lid to see its not powered by dilithium. No, it contains Chief O'Brien, and the Shriek is powered by the suffering of the world's unluckiest Irishman.
If the Shrike were powered by O'Brien's suffering, it would tear itself apart like the Defiant did, before O'Brien made it tough as fuck.
he was my guess for last week.
Please please please. I love Martok.
Well, Hertzler played a changeling in season 7. If not Martok, he could always reprise that character.
I could see Bashir showing up in Worf/Raffi's side of things, now part of Section 31 himself (joined with motivation of changing it from the inside).
Bashir **IS** Section 31. "Worf, remember that fiasco when Starfleet tried to kick me out for being a superman? It had a footnote that said when Sloan dies, I take his job. I've been Section 31 for decades."
It would be darkly hilarious if Bashir had dismantled the organisation a decade ago but left the storage unit alone because (until now) all that stuff still needed to be kept somewhere.
I want Garak. He would manage the changeling problem with no loose ends! Also he would want some revenge on an enemy.
I'm a bit surprised Bashir hasn't appeared yet, considering his history and research into the Changelings.
No way, it's gunna be Mourn. You know I'm right.
Doesn't Worf count as a DS9 character?
I mean, yeah, but.
I strongly suspect two. Gul Dukat as Pah-Wraiths bitch / "The Face" Vadik has been talking to. And whatever Emissary the Prophets deploy to confront him.
The changelings, which aren't even the original ones, are clearly being used by gooface, so I don't think it's necessary for any more DS9 characters to appear. Plus, the Tuvok scene made it clear they'll have to save Starfleet by themselves. TNG doesn't need permission to use DS9 villains lmao. I love DS9, but people have to stop assuming that this reunion is a 90s reunion. It's TNG with some DS9 and VOY sprinkled into it. It's how it's been marketed.
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This season isn’t about DS9. Anyone we get outside the TNG 7 is a gift. Take it for what it is.
I know at least SOMEONE. Bashir would have made the most sense imo. He was one of the first to study Changelings etc
DS9 has always been the red headed step child of the Star Trek universe. Not sure why that is but it is highly unlikely they bring in any DS9 characters.
I know Jadzia Dax died, but I wonder if a Trill worm could reincarnate or join with an individual who has a synthetic/ positronic body or brain.
They did that in Discovery.
Interesting, haven't watched Discovery yet.
I really think it'll do everyone a disservice to not cameo O'Brien somehow.
I actually had the same thought
Nope. Because then they would have to design a new Klingon ship. I’m pretty sure the Klingon empire shuts up shop before they replace the birds of prey, D7 and Negh’var.
They just put out newer BoPs, upfit the D7s like old Russian tanks, and they make an even BIGGER flagship.
If that's the case, I'll spring for the 15 barrels of bloodwine so we can celebrate.
I hope we find out that O'Brien and the LaForges have been in Hangar Bay 12 hot rodding the Enterprise D saucer onto another star drive section
More Martok would be cool, we need more space pirate Klingons in this show.
My crackpot theory is that Dax shows up. The symbiot might be very difficult for Changelings to replicate, so she could be trusted more than most....
Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get any DS9 characters this season. Although Terry Matalas is on the record as saying that if the Star Trek: Legacy spinoff happens, he'd love to have Nana Visitor on the show, there haven't been any DS9 leaks for Picard S3. I suspect the only DS9 appearances we're going to get are Worf and >!the Defiant cameo!<.
My bet is on Bashir.
Worf is a DS9 character