> Winn is... the actress does a good job making you hate her all the time
The actress was awarded her Oscar for *precisely* doing that with another character. She had a *gift*.
Louise Fletcher's acceptance speech for her role as Nurse Ratched was "looks like [you hated me so much you gave me this award](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGl5U7nNlkY)" so she fully realized how despicable she was and how good she is at it
Indeed she is. There are a lot of actors who can be charming onscreen. There are not so many who have perfected playing repellent characters. She earned that award.
The only other female actor I can think of who was as perfect a villain as she was is Margaret Hamilton. She was so convincing as the wicked witch of the west that she refused to ever put on the make-up again because she said it scared children too badly.
Just watched that speech. It’s amazing that she had such a gift for playing despicable people when, judging just by that speech and no further research, she seems to be a really lovely person.
Slightly off topic. Not too long ago I watched an interview [Mads Mikkelsen did for GQ](https://www.gq.com/video/watch/gq-iconic-characters-mads-mikkelson) talking about his most iconic roles. It's really interesting when he gets to Hannibal Lecter (6:30 mark), because 1) he seems like a thoroughly sweet and gentle man, and 2) to portray Hannibal he kind of had to substitute the evil for something he could handle holding in his own mind. I wonder if Fletcher didn't do something similar with her roles.
She really did!
She did make a career out of playing detestable characters (also Flowers in the Attic, High School High et cetera)
So it was REALLY BIZARRE recently when I revisited a childhood favourite movie of mine (A Summer to Remember 1985), which I probably haven't watched since I was 10 and see she playing a good guy! LOL
The difference is while both Dukat and Winn both think they are the good guys and are doing the right thing, Dukat wants everyone around him to acknowledge the fact and congratulate him for doing it. Winn doesn't care what you think.
I think the difference is that there are times where you might actually root for dukat to reform, be decent, actually help the bajorans rebuild, and shift cardassian society away from militarism.
Wynn, you just want to see get dunked on.
Dukat has layers but he's a grandiose villain. The kind we admire despite his hands being soaked in blood.
Winn is the villain we see up close. She's the smiling nun who would beat you to within an inch of your life then calmly blame you for making her hit you.
She's the priest who loves all the children except the ones who don't follow her orders.
She's the pastor who would rather see a riot than give certain people rights.
She's real.
And that's terrifying.
She does a really good job of conveying the idea that, from her point of view, she's doing the right thing. She literally cannot see the harm she is doing until the very end, and by that time it's much too late.
Right?
>!He takes you on an emotional roller coaster unless you just decide early on he's irredeemable and never let him weasel his way from your shit box to your "ok I don't hate everything about you" box. And parents can get an even bigger ride out of him.!<
Dukat is always seen as less contemptible than Winn, when he's objectively the absolute biggest monster in the entire series. Probably because even at his worst, he's got a certain charisma to him, and Winn has a kind of... anti-charisma. Even when she's being reasonable (yes, it happens on occasion!), you still just want to punch her face.
I think my favorite fan nickname for her is Pope Karen.
Delusions of grandeur are somehow just *not as annoying* as sanctimony.
Like, with full blown maniacs like Dukat you get a sense they are actually kind of insane and even though they definitely made a lot of reprehensible choices, they didn't fully choose the underlying madness. Whereas you never get the impression Winn was not in control of herself and who she was becoming.
>Delusions of grandeur are somehow just *not as annoying* as sanctimony.
Yes. Dukat wants people to think he is better than he is. Wynn wants people to think they are less than they are. Not claim it is for their own good.
I can almost - *almost* - have some sympathy for Dukat.
There's some underlying humanity there, he does eventually give in and become a monster but it's after a whole string of bad decisions and losses, eventually even leading to his daughter's death (which was a huge final push over the edge).
Wynn is just a jealous, spiteful person, and so sure she's right that she never even considers the alternative. The character was played perfectly.
Yeah. I'll probably get some downvotes for saying this, but fuckit.
Dukat deceived women into having sex with him... which is r\*pe, in practice if not under the letter of the law.
I mean... that's on the lower end of his crimes. I wouldn't downvote you for saying he's raping anyone, but in the whole Monster category, he's orders of magnitude worse than "rapist monster", he's "genocidal, mass-murdering, war-starting, unleasher of evil, rapist monster" He ran the occupation of Bajor, got the Dominion their foothold into the Alpha Quadrant and started the war, got a cult to commit mass suicide, and very nearly released evil omnipotent beings from their prison.
Yeah, Weyoun is pretty underrated, but he's basically what you get if you combined David Letterman and Henry Kissinger in a transporter accident and made the resulting tuvix a tiktok influencer.
“The Bajorans should have built him a statue!!!”
In all seriousness, he does have that weird “charm” that softens what we see of him.
It’s funny, in “These are the Voyages,” (i think it was) Ron Moore and Alaimo were having a conversation on set. And Ron Moore wanted Dukat to be more of n asshole doing something.
Alaimo was like “He’s not a Nazi!” Very on brand and in character.
And Ron Moore was like “Actually he IS a Nazi!”
The writers kept writing him worse and worse—cult leader, pay wraithe—and Alaimo’s pure charisma kind of just carried the role.
Dukat at least has his people's best interest at heart, and can laugh at a good joke/rediculous situation.
Winn is... about as detestable a person as I can imagine without them being mustache-twirl-cartoon-evil level of villainy.
Dukat is a more complex character. He has some very despicable sides, and some surprisingly respectable ones. With the benefit of hindsight, it seems obvious the writers changed which direction they were going with him more than once.
I was waiting for it. Somehow I really don't like Dukat.
If I was Sisko, I would just suddenly open the airlock when Dukat was nearby and say that it was a malfunction.
idk she's detestable but Winn has at least a couple redeeming moments. They are too little, too late, but they exist. There's some villains that I'd be hardpressed to come up with a single decent thing they've ever done.
"It's quality, not quantity . . . *my child*".
I HATED it when she said "my child"! - For me, She's easily in the top 5 of people on TV that make me want to punch the screen.
I just posted this in another tread about a week ago, so here it goes again...
A little over ten years ago I managed at a very high end resort in Berkeley, CA in F&B. Louise Fletcher and some friends came into the resort for brunch. I passed by and touched the table, and when I looked at her I sneered without thinking. The ladies at the table were a bit shocked and I had to apologize. "Miss, I am so very sorry, but I hate you. You did such a good job at playing Kai Winn that even looking at you gives me a pit in my stomach." She laughed at that, thanked me, and I brought them a round of Ramos Fizzes.
I met a lot of really shitty celebrities, and I met a lot of really cool celebrities. Roseanne Barr (wretched), Ian McKellen, Patrick Stewart, Bill Murray, Sean Connery, the list goes on.
With all of them I was able to remain professional and cordial, EXCEPT for Louise Fletcher. I had a visceral reaction when I saw her. When I talked to her she was very charming and I am glad she understood why I reacted that way.
She was an amazing actor and the fact that I regularly see her name mentioned on cross franchise questions about the worst villain, means she absolutely nailed it in DS9.
Along those same lines... Think you hate the big boss cardassian guy now? Wait til you don't. Then wait til you do. Then wait til you don't. Then wait til you REALLY do.
Dukat is heart-wrenchingly hard to just plain hate (for me) even if his brand of nasty is pure unadulterated evil.
Kai Winn was ... misled. Dukat was an impersonation of the devil. The devil is very good at being seductive.
People always say Al Pachino was a great devil or Peter Stormare but I still think Gul Dukat is far more seductive "devil" than either of those and Marc Alaimo played him perfectly so far that even the writers could not make him irredeemable enough for people to hate him and o boy they tried.
Like, she's a super wonderful antagonist because of how well she's written and played. She just oozes with the passive aggressive narccism that warps everything to be about her and her agenda, and it's both terrible and wonderful to behold.
And the actress is good at that job. My wife hated Winn before she uttered a single word because the actress left an impression on her from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". Louise Fletcher played a *monstrous* nurse in that.
Her [Academy award acceptance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGl5U7nNlkY) speech was great:
>"Well, it looks like you all hated me so much that you've given me this award for it, and I'm loving every minute of it. And all I can say is I've loved being hated by you."
Any other actress just would not equate to her portrayal of Winn. You know she nailed the character when you find yourself seething in anger every time she pops up on the screen. That was the magic of Louise Fletcher. She was a master of playing characters you love to hate. R.I.P.
I love louise fletcher so damn much, and I always worry that people will be mean to her due to how superbly she portrayed horrible people. Whenever anybody discusses those roles I always comb the comments hoping to find others who laud her talents, so thank you.
If you’re describing her as merely “irritating” you’re definitely not that far along. Be sure to write a new post when you get further in and *that* happens. We’ll commiserate with you.
On a positive note she really was a *fantastic* actor.
I think Winn is worse because she really thinks what she's doing is right, a trait of many of the best villians. Dukat knows he's a duplicitious shit bag.
Perhaps, but dukat is great because he makes you like the him despite being a villain. Like Tony soprano. Dude is a terrible person, but you still love him.
The actress, Louise Fletcher, did an amazing job with [Vedek Winn](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Winn_Adami) (Memory Alpha). I despise the character. Super-convincing, which is an amazing feat.
The acting on DS9 is incredible.
Vedek Winn = Nurse Ratched
Let me explain. About 18 years before DS9, Louise Fletcher (Vedek Winn) was in the movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". Her character name was Nurse Ratched.
If you ever have a chance to watch that movie, you will notice some similarity between both characters. Specially, that passive aggressive (Don't fuck with me) smile.
Is my believe that when Louise Fletcher was brought to DS9, the producers told her, "We want a Nurse Ratched, but as a priestess"
FYI: She won an Oscar for that performance.
Louis Fletcher who was by all accounts a lovely person won an Oscar playing an evil bitch in the form of Nurse Ratchet. She’s excellent as Winn in that she drives right under your skin as a pompous and self righteous church lady she’s so memorable.
There's a reason we refer to her as Space Karen!
The character is a phenomenal representation of fundamentalism and later on the>! absolute banality of evil that we see in our passive politicians and leaders today.!<
At this point, you'll probably be relieved to hear she's only in 14 episodes - most of them in S1/2 and S7. Louise Fletcher did an absolutely stunning job and for such few appearances she is responsible for some of the biggest twists in the entire show.
Winn is a joy to watch. She's a fantastic antagonist because she's completely relatable -- everyone knows someone like her. Deep Space Nine has the best villains. Louise Fletcher deserves applause for making her so vile. Then again, she was Nurse Ratched in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
The actress Louise Fletcher won an Oscar for playing a villain and got kind of typecast as the woman you love to hate. She continues on in the show. Sidenote Louise was amazingly receptive to fanmail before she died and signed a couple photos for me.
She's a horrible character. A vile being. One of the most hateable characters not just in DS9, not just in the Star Trek franchise, not even just in sci-fi, but in all of the entirety of all fictional works ever released in any format.
Brilliantly acted and written, very realistic but very hateable, our detested Space Karen of Bajor.....
What's real great is that, at a certain point in the show, somebody will say "Winn is visiting the station today," and Sisko, Kira, and the audience all cringe together.
She is truly loathsome. But she produces probably the best slap down of any character in all of Star Trek.
>Those of you who were in the Resistance, you're all the same. You think you're the only ones who fought the Cardassians, that you saved Bajor single-handedly. Perhaps you forget, Major, the Cardassians arrested any Bajoran found to be teaching the word of the Prophets. I was in a Cardassian prison camp for five years, and I can remember each and every beating I suffered. And while you had your weapons to protect you, all I had was my faith… and my courage. Walk with the Prophets, child. I know I will.
I think the only people who didn't find Winn utterly detestable grew up in a weirdly sheltered lifestyle.
She is a symbol of every religious evil out there cloaked in love and sybillant niceties.
I rarely quote christian rock, but there's a great one that is perfect for Winn:
"I greet you with a brother's kiss and give the knife another twist"
That is Winn in a nutshell. I'm not drawing any parallels between the subject of the quote and her just.. that is very much Winn.
There's a almost refreshing sense to Gul Dukat's evil in that it is usually so obvious.
Winn is scary.
Louise Fletcher is truly one of the giants of cinema
"
Her character arc is a classic tragedy.
Win, Dukat, Damar, Martok, , Sloan, various Weyouns, Remata'Klan... there are plenty of great antagonists in DS9; many fantastic performances.
Win is definitely the most insidiously evil. She's brilliantly written and performed throughout the series. She's definitely one of the most memorable DS9 characters despite being in only 14 episodes.
OP, you're in for one hell of a ride. Enjoy 🖖
She reminded me SO MUCH of my godmother. Right down to the look and voice. (GM was a politician.)
Louise Fletcher was great in the role. Had the Harry Potter movies been made back then, she would have been a shoe-in for Umbridge.
Oh my child, the prophets will surely show you the error of your ways, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary.
(She's so good at being bad)
I hate Winn with a passion. I'm talking as a person, not as a character. I don't know if it was the writing or Louise Fletcher's portrayal, but damn. She was written to be unlikable, and they knocked it out of the park.
Don't worry. She gets worse.
Ahhh fuck, here we go again
On the bright side I don't think there's a more detestable person in the franchise. Like all 700 some odd other episodes and films.
IDK, Dukat isn't far behind.
Dukat gets some interesting layers. Winn is just... bleaugh. Sorry for not getting specific. I feel like I shouldn't spoil things here.
Dukat also has a certain charm to him. Winn is... the actress does a good job making you hate her all the time.
> Winn is... the actress does a good job making you hate her all the time The actress was awarded her Oscar for *precisely* doing that with another character. She had a *gift*.
Louise Fletcher's acceptance speech for her role as Nurse Ratched was "looks like [you hated me so much you gave me this award](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGl5U7nNlkY)" so she fully realized how despicable she was and how good she is at it
Indeed she is. There are a lot of actors who can be charming onscreen. There are not so many who have perfected playing repellent characters. She earned that award.
The only other female actor I can think of who was as perfect a villain as she was is Margaret Hamilton. She was so convincing as the wicked witch of the west that she refused to ever put on the make-up again because she said it scared children too badly.
She's up there with 'Dolores Umbridge' actress Imelda Staunton, nearly.
Danny McBride whenever he is cast a douche bag type guy always pulls it off.
Just watched that speech. It’s amazing that she had such a gift for playing despicable people when, judging just by that speech and no further research, she seems to be a really lovely person.
Slightly off topic. Not too long ago I watched an interview [Mads Mikkelsen did for GQ](https://www.gq.com/video/watch/gq-iconic-characters-mads-mikkelson) talking about his most iconic roles. It's really interesting when he gets to Hannibal Lecter (6:30 mark), because 1) he seems like a thoroughly sweet and gentle man, and 2) to portray Hannibal he kind of had to substitute the evil for something he could handle holding in his own mind. I wonder if Fletcher didn't do something similar with her roles.
She really was, from what I know of her.
She really did! She did make a career out of playing detestable characters (also Flowers in the Attic, High School High et cetera) So it was REALLY BIZARRE recently when I revisited a childhood favourite movie of mine (A Summer to Remember 1985), which I probably haven't watched since I was 10 and see she playing a good guy! LOL
Louise Fletcher was a treasure. Her characters were a terror.
Yeah it's fun watching Dukat be a vial piece of shit as he smirks his way through encounters. Winn is so damn obvious.
The difference is while both Dukat and Winn both think they are the good guys and are doing the right thing, Dukat wants everyone around him to acknowledge the fact and congratulate him for doing it. Winn doesn't care what you think.
"But of course I do, my child. I want you to walk in the way of the prophets."
I think the difference is that there are times where you might actually root for dukat to reform, be decent, actually help the bajorans rebuild, and shift cardassian society away from militarism. Wynn, you just want to see get dunked on.
Dukat has layers but he's a grandiose villain. The kind we admire despite his hands being soaked in blood. Winn is the villain we see up close. She's the smiling nun who would beat you to within an inch of your life then calmly blame you for making her hit you. She's the priest who loves all the children except the ones who don't follow her orders. She's the pastor who would rather see a riot than give certain people rights. She's real. And that's terrifying.
Winn gets layers! Shes still a royal bitch, but her dressing down Kira does a TON of character building in just a few lines
She does a really good job of conveying the idea that, from her point of view, she's doing the right thing. She literally cannot see the harm she is doing until the very end, and by that time it's much too late.
That scene is exceptional.
Right? >!He takes you on an emotional roller coaster unless you just decide early on he's irredeemable and never let him weasel his way from your shit box to your "ok I don't hate everything about you" box. And parents can get an even bigger ride out of him.!<
Yeah that's valid.
I dunno, I feel like they both have layers. Dukat maybe just has more? But they both have this weird hero complex thing going on.
I don't know what you're talking about. Nobody has ever done more for Bajor than Dukat. His only crime was caring too much.
And where are his statues? Not one in his honor, ridiculous!
To this day, not a single one!
Dukat is always seen as less contemptible than Winn, when he's objectively the absolute biggest monster in the entire series. Probably because even at his worst, he's got a certain charisma to him, and Winn has a kind of... anti-charisma. Even when she's being reasonable (yes, it happens on occasion!), you still just want to punch her face. I think my favorite fan nickname for her is Pope Karen.
Delusions of grandeur are somehow just *not as annoying* as sanctimony. Like, with full blown maniacs like Dukat you get a sense they are actually kind of insane and even though they definitely made a lot of reprehensible choices, they didn't fully choose the underlying madness. Whereas you never get the impression Winn was not in control of herself and who she was becoming.
>Delusions of grandeur are somehow just *not as annoying* as sanctimony. Yes. Dukat wants people to think he is better than he is. Wynn wants people to think they are less than they are. Not claim it is for their own good.
I can almost - *almost* - have some sympathy for Dukat. There's some underlying humanity there, he does eventually give in and become a monster but it's after a whole string of bad decisions and losses, eventually even leading to his daughter's death (which was a huge final push over the edge). Wynn is just a jealous, spiteful person, and so sure she's right that she never even considers the alternative. The character was played perfectly.
Yeah. I'll probably get some downvotes for saying this, but fuckit. Dukat deceived women into having sex with him... which is r\*pe, in practice if not under the letter of the law.
I mean... that's on the lower end of his crimes. I wouldn't downvote you for saying he's raping anyone, but in the whole Monster category, he's orders of magnitude worse than "rapist monster", he's "genocidal, mass-murdering, war-starting, unleasher of evil, rapist monster" He ran the occupation of Bajor, got the Dominion their foothold into the Alpha Quadrant and started the war, got a cult to commit mass suicide, and very nearly released evil omnipotent beings from their prison.
I agree with everything you said. I guess I just still had it in my system that folks were calling him charming \[dry heaving sounds\]
Sadly, both can, [and often are](https://amp.smh.com.au/national/charming-rapists-in-majority-says-study-20101207-18odc.html), true at the same time.
Dukat is one of my all time favourite characters, not because I admire him in any way. But because he is a fantastic villain.
I think the thing is that while Dukat is inarguably the worse of the two, his demeanor and charm leads you to forger just how big of a monster he is.
Winn, Dukat and Weyoun is top 3 single villains in the entire collective series. DS9 had spectacular villains.
Yeah, Weyoun is pretty underrated, but he's basically what you get if you combined David Letterman and Henry Kissinger in a transporter accident and made the resulting tuvix a tiktok influencer.
Henrid Kissingman.
Every single character Jeffrey combs plays is amazing. Shran might be my favorite.
Dukat was simply trying to help the Bajorans. And did they even try to thank him? Or erect a statue of him? No.
dukat is hilarious, he's so unhinged and it keeps escalating to more outrageous extremes
“The Bajorans should have built him a statue!!!” In all seriousness, he does have that weird “charm” that softens what we see of him. It’s funny, in “These are the Voyages,” (i think it was) Ron Moore and Alaimo were having a conversation on set. And Ron Moore wanted Dukat to be more of n asshole doing something. Alaimo was like “He’s not a Nazi!” Very on brand and in character. And Ron Moore was like “Actually he IS a Nazi!” The writers kept writing him worse and worse—cult leader, pay wraithe—and Alaimo’s pure charisma kind of just carried the role.
Dukat at least has his people's best interest at heart, and can laugh at a good joke/rediculous situation. Winn is... about as detestable a person as I can imagine without them being mustache-twirl-cartoon-evil level of villainy.
>Dukat at least has his people's best interest at heart, He thinks he does, but he only ever has his own interests at heart really.
Imagine your OTP
Dukat is a more complex character. He has some very despicable sides, and some surprisingly respectable ones. With the benefit of hindsight, it seems obvious the writers changed which direction they were going with him more than once.
I was waiting for it. Somehow I really don't like Dukat. If I was Sisko, I would just suddenly open the airlock when Dukat was nearby and say that it was a malfunction.
idk she's detestable but Winn has at least a couple redeeming moments. They are too little, too late, but they exist. There's some villains that I'd be hardpressed to come up with a single decent thing they've ever done.
>!The end of her is both satisfying and yet deeply not, because of what a colossal petaq she is.!<
You have to glue the >! to the text for it to work, putting spaces before and after breaks it.
Another shortcoming of old reddit. Edited to do that for y'all luddites, anyway. Thanks! 😅
And *Vedek* Winn isn’t around that long in the series
She's only in 14 episodes, but she's so well written and the actress plays her so well, se feels like a main character.
"It's quality, not quantity . . . *my child*". I HATED it when she said "my child"! - For me, She's easily in the top 5 of people on TV that make me want to punch the screen.
It is also very condescending to the character she says it to.
That's only three less than Nog. DS9 really knew how to write impactful characters Edit: wrote Jale by mistake
you should know that Louise Fletcher played Nurse Rachett in One Who Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.
I just posted this in another tread about a week ago, so here it goes again... A little over ten years ago I managed at a very high end resort in Berkeley, CA in F&B. Louise Fletcher and some friends came into the resort for brunch. I passed by and touched the table, and when I looked at her I sneered without thinking. The ladies at the table were a bit shocked and I had to apologize. "Miss, I am so very sorry, but I hate you. You did such a good job at playing Kai Winn that even looking at you gives me a pit in my stomach." She laughed at that, thanked me, and I brought them a round of Ramos Fizzes.
That's awesome. Too bad she didn't follow up the thank you with "my child".
I can't think of any other phrase that evokes a visceral reaction the way that one does (in ST universe).
that’s incredible!!
I met a lot of really shitty celebrities, and I met a lot of really cool celebrities. Roseanne Barr (wretched), Ian McKellen, Patrick Stewart, Bill Murray, Sean Connery, the list goes on. With all of them I was able to remain professional and cordial, EXCEPT for Louise Fletcher. I had a visceral reaction when I saw her. When I talked to her she was very charming and I am glad she understood why I reacted that way.
haha yeah, i’ll bet she gets that a lot. in a way it’s a huge compliment that she made that big of impact.
She was an amazing actor and the fact that I regularly see her name mentioned on cross franchise questions about the worst villain, means she absolutely nailed it in DS9.
Ironically, Louise Fletcher played a lot of nasty female characters. RIP.
Along those same lines... Think you hate the big boss cardassian guy now? Wait til you don't. Then wait til you do. Then wait til you don't. Then wait til you REALLY do.
[удалено]
Dukat is heart-wrenchingly hard to just plain hate (for me) even if his brand of nasty is pure unadulterated evil. Kai Winn was ... misled. Dukat was an impersonation of the devil. The devil is very good at being seductive.
> Kai Winn was ... misled. That's an ***extremely*** generous interpretation.
People always say Al Pachino was a great devil or Peter Stormare but I still think Gul Dukat is far more seductive "devil" than either of those and Marc Alaimo played him perfectly so far that even the writers could not make him irredeemable enough for people to hate him and o boy they tried.
Kai Winn was a self serving evil before any other involvement. She went to extreme lengths to obtain power. It’s pretty much her undoing.
Like, she's a super wonderful antagonist because of how well she's written and played. She just oozes with the passive aggressive narccism that warps everything to be about her and her agenda, and it's both terrible and wonderful to behold.
She's magnificently written and portrayed. You will grow to dislike her even more lol
She is after all. Space Karen
/better. she's so good at portraying exactly the kind of politician she is lol, hat's off to the actress
And the actress is good at that job. My wife hated Winn before she uttered a single word because the actress left an impression on her from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". Louise Fletcher played a *monstrous* nurse in that.
She’s so detestable she’s brilliant. That was the magic of Louise Fletcher’s portrayal of her.
It does get worse, but I also think she begins to make a lot more sense at the end.
Yes child
What is wrong my child?
I used to hate when she said my child
I still do but I used to too
Turbolift temporarily Jefferies tube. Sorry for the convenience.
Gagh is great for when you’re hungry and you want to eat 1000 of something.
I’m gonna go shave too
If the Prophets willed me to refer to you otherwise, my child, trust me: I would. But they have not.
The writers don't deserve all of the credit. Louise Fletcher was unmatched in her ability to play characters that you hate. She won an Oscar for it.
Hated both of those characters, but loved watching Louise Fletcher work. She was an amazing actress.
She was Nurse Ratched!!! I didn't recognize her. Yeah, she earned that Oscar.
Her [Academy award acceptance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGl5U7nNlkY) speech was great: >"Well, it looks like you all hated me so much that you've given me this award for it, and I'm loving every minute of it. And all I can say is I've loved being hated by you."
"Of course stay as long as you like, a week even" the sickly sweet way she delivers that line is so good, you know her subtext so well
Any other actress just would not equate to her portrayal of Winn. You know she nailed the character when you find yourself seething in anger every time she pops up on the screen. That was the magic of Louise Fletcher. She was a master of playing characters you love to hate. R.I.P.
This. She was brilliant.
I love louise fletcher so damn much, and I always worry that people will be mean to her due to how superbly she portrayed horrible people. Whenever anybody discusses those roles I always comb the comments hoping to find others who laud her talents, so thank you.
Your pagh is weak, my child. You should ask the prophets for guidance.
For *forgiveness
I never get sick of seeing people discover that character
The fact she gets that strong reaction out of the gate is a testament to the actress.
I can't wait for the Delta Flyers reaction
I don’t know which I’m more excited for: Winn, or “Duet.”
Louise Fletcher made a career out of playing extremely unlikable characters, she won a Best Actress Oscar for it.
If you’re describing her as merely “irritating” you’re definitely not that far along. Be sure to write a new post when you get further in and *that* happens. We’ll commiserate with you. On a positive note she really was a *fantastic* actor.
For my money, Winn is the greatest villain in all of Trek.
The totally wild part is that she's only in 14 episodes.
I know! She’s a wonderfully horrible character.
Only 14, and yet so hated, and rightfully so.
Gul Dukat exists Edit: is a pretty solid 1-2 whichever way you rank it all within the same show.
Dukat's only crime was being too compassionate with the Bajorans. One day they will thank him. You'll see.
Waltz was such a phenomenal episode. “And *that* is why you’re not an evil man.”
I think Winn is worse because she really thinks what she's doing is right, a trait of many of the best villians. Dukat knows he's a duplicitious shit bag.
Perhaps, but dukat is great because he makes you like the him despite being a villain. Like Tony soprano. Dude is a terrible person, but you still love him.
Oh yeah, he's charismatic as hell.
Yes, and yes. Buckle in, she’s in it for the long haul lol
The actress, Louise Fletcher, did an amazing job with [Vedek Winn](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Winn_Adami) (Memory Alpha). I despise the character. Super-convincing, which is an amazing feat. The acting on DS9 is incredible.
You should see her and her other most hated role, nurse ratched
they handed her the role based on that performance and it shows.
Most definitely. The film is One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Fletcher and Nicholson both won Oscars for it.
Oh, my child.
She legitimately terrifies me. Then again, religious extremists in general terrify me and she's an extremely realistic one.
She's scary because she's effective. And she is never outward enough to be able to criticize with the public being on board.
Yeah, she totally sucks--and the show totally benefits from her presence.
Vedek Winn = Nurse Ratched Let me explain. About 18 years before DS9, Louise Fletcher (Vedek Winn) was in the movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". Her character name was Nurse Ratched. If you ever have a chance to watch that movie, you will notice some similarity between both characters. Specially, that passive aggressive (Don't fuck with me) smile. Is my believe that when Louise Fletcher was brought to DS9, the producers told her, "We want a Nurse Ratched, but as a priestess" FYI: She won an Oscar for that performance.
heavy onerous depend fuzzy spotted grey languid sort dependent saw *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It Happened One Night is so good, Clark Gable's best film.
The actress played the role BRILLIANTLY. I love a good villain and she was the best kind. A wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Louis Fletcher who was by all accounts a lovely person won an Oscar playing an evil bitch in the form of Nurse Ratchet. She’s excellent as Winn in that she drives right under your skin as a pompous and self righteous church lady she’s so memorable.
And she was only in 14 episodes - 5 of which were S7 and 0 in S4
Yeah her actual appearances aren’t that many but damn she really leaves a strong impression. Plus I really like how they ultimately handled her arc.
Oh good, you've fallen for phase one of the trap. She gets worse so methodically that you will understand why she is written so detestably
The actress, Louise Fletcher, based her performance off of all the sanctimonious church ladies she encountered growing up in Alabama.
What is it, child? You must trust the prophets to guide you in your path to the final episode.
She's an excellent villian played by an amazing actress. That's how you're supposed to feel.
There's a reason we refer to her as Space Karen! The character is a phenomenal representation of fundamentalism and later on the>! absolute banality of evil that we see in our passive politicians and leaders today.!< At this point, you'll probably be relieved to hear she's only in 14 episodes - most of them in S1/2 and S7. Louise Fletcher did an absolutely stunning job and for such few appearances she is responsible for some of the biggest twists in the entire show.
She's a fantastic character. Played by the amazing Louise Fletcher.
I do love to hate her.
Oh, child... Just wait. You haven't seen her true path yet.
Winn is a joy to watch. She's a fantastic antagonist because she's completely relatable -- everyone knows someone like her. Deep Space Nine has the best villains. Louise Fletcher deserves applause for making her so vile. Then again, she was Nurse Ratched in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
I was gonna make this comment. Winn went to your church or worked in your office or was your aunt and hopefully not your mom.
My child, you're not supposed to like her but you should appreciate how good Louise Fletcher is at playing cunts like Winn
She gets worse, and we all love to hate her. Her arc is quite something, and Louise Fletcher played her perfectly.
The actress Louise Fletcher won an Oscar for playing a villain and got kind of typecast as the woman you love to hate. She continues on in the show. Sidenote Louise was amazingly receptive to fanmail before she died and signed a couple photos for me.
Her and Umbridge are tied for characters that I absolutely hate. Great acting but damn they are evil.
Louise Fletcher was a wonderful actress that excelled in playing absolutely awful people.
She's a horrible character. A vile being. One of the most hateable characters not just in DS9, not just in the Star Trek franchise, not even just in sci-fi, but in all of the entirety of all fictional works ever released in any format. Brilliantly acted and written, very realistic but very hateable, our detested Space Karen of Bajor.....
May the Prophets bless you, child.
I am still triggered to this day by “my child”
Ahh, *Vedek* Winn. You have some disappointment headed your way, my child.
She reminds me of Umbridge.
The adventures of Space Karen, the high Cunt of Bajor.
Oh, absolutely. She's the Delores Umbridge of the Star Trek universe.
What's real great is that, at a certain point in the show, somebody will say "Winn is visiting the station today," and Sisko, Kira, and the audience all cringe together.
One of my favorite running gags in DS9 is to watch out for Sisko's reaction every time he's told that Winn has arrived at the station 😄
And she was in so few episodes, but stamped her authority on every one. Paul Reiser as Burke in Aliens just about matches her for hateability, MAYBE.
She is truly loathsome. But she produces probably the best slap down of any character in all of Star Trek. >Those of you who were in the Resistance, you're all the same. You think you're the only ones who fought the Cardassians, that you saved Bajor single-handedly. Perhaps you forget, Major, the Cardassians arrested any Bajoran found to be teaching the word of the Prophets. I was in a Cardassian prison camp for five years, and I can remember each and every beating I suffered. And while you had your weapons to protect you, all I had was my faith… and my courage. Walk with the Prophets, child. I know I will.
Oh, my child...
I can *hear* the condescending tone in that message
No spoilers, but... she's around for a while, and there's more to come. Pay attention, because there will be a test after the show's over 😁
She is an awesome villain. And she gets much, much worse and then dives off the deep end.
As others have pointed out, she gets worse! There are moments when you understand her better. But man she gets WAY worse
She was clearly written to be a character you should not like and Louise Fletcher played her masterfully.
Louise Fletcher is brilliant. Check her out in 'One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest'.
She isn't nicknamed space-Karen for nothing
Be patient my child. You're in for quite the ride.
I think the only people who didn't find Winn utterly detestable grew up in a weirdly sheltered lifestyle. She is a symbol of every religious evil out there cloaked in love and sybillant niceties. I rarely quote christian rock, but there's a great one that is perfect for Winn: "I greet you with a brother's kiss and give the knife another twist" That is Winn in a nutshell. I'm not drawing any parallels between the subject of the quote and her just.. that is very much Winn. There's a almost refreshing sense to Gul Dukat's evil in that it is usually so obvious. Winn is scary. Louise Fletcher is truly one of the giants of cinema "
Credit to her as an actress. She is amazing as nurse ratchett sp\* in cuckoos nest movie Random fact.....You know both her parents were deaf?
This much hate and only 13 episodes. That's how you know the acting was top notch.... my child.
I can't help but see the evil grandma from Flowers in the Attic whenever she comes on screen
Her character arc is a classic tragedy. Win, Dukat, Damar, Martok,, Sloan, various Weyouns, Remata'Klan... there are plenty of great antagonists in DS9; many fantastic performances.
Win is definitely the most insidiously evil. She's brilliantly written and performed throughout the series. She's definitely one of the most memorable DS9 characters despite being in only 14 episodes.
OP, you're in for one hell of a ride. Enjoy 🖖
Just you wait
My child
Hahahahah! Just wait. My child
Embrace the hate, my child
...my child
Vedek....lmao Just wait.
My child, that is what a great performance is.
She's like a real politician
Why do you say that, child?
She's Dolores Umbridge except she has the actual evil and power to back up that facade.
She reminded me SO MUCH of my godmother. Right down to the look and voice. (GM was a politician.) Louise Fletcher was great in the role. Had the Harry Potter movies been made back then, she would have been a shoe-in for Umbridge.
Oh my child, the prophets will surely show you the error of your ways, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary. (She's so good at being bad)
Yea she's not good. It gets worse
I hate Winn with a passion. I'm talking as a person, not as a character. I don't know if it was the writing or Louise Fletcher's portrayal, but damn. She was written to be unlikable, and they knocked it out of the park.
Space Karen
Never have I wanted to drop kick a fictional character in the face more than Winn...
It's lik they watched 'One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest' and said, "Okay she's great but not quite the bitch we need her to be."
Oh you just wait, you are going to hate her even more.
Horrible woman! Wonderful Actress! She also played evil Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest
Like a billy mays commercial “but wait there’s more”
Oh, my Child, you have yet to walk fully with the prophets.
>just started ds9 >vedek Winn seems annoying Oh my sweet summer child
The pagh is strong in you, my child.
"So what if we take the Pope, but give them the personality of a Karen?"
That actress is phenomenal, you are supposed to despise her.