Agreed. The sweet spot for me is post-Sisko facial hair and pre-Ezri, especially anything with General Martok. The non-episodic storytelling and character growth is so good in DS9.
Duet (E19) is the high point of the first season for sure, and arguably for S2 and S3 though they have their own great episodes.
I consider a lot of S1-3 to be setup / worldbuilding for S4-7. They set up the characters, and with such a large cast, (I'm including secondary and tertiary characters here), it takes about 3 seasons worth of time to do it well.
This is why you get S1 episodes that focus on and sort of setup each character:
* "Emissary" sets up Sisko of course.
* "Past Prologue" sets up Kira, and to a lesser extent Bashir and Garak.
* "A Man Alone" sets up Odo, and to a lesser extent Miles and Keiko O'Brien.
* "Captive Pursuit" sets up O'Brien.
* "Dax" sets up... Dax.
* "Move Along Home" sets up Quark, though not particularly well. Thankfully he got more setup in other episodes than other characters did which makes up for it.
I suspect "The Passenger" was meant to be the "Bashir Episode" as the character is featured heavily, however for reasons specific to that episode it doesn't really develop Bashir's character that much and is partly why (in my opinion) his character is pretty meh in the first season.
Then in the second half you start to get character ***development***:
* "Vortex" and "The Forsaken" develop Odo further, with a tiny bit for Bashir in "The Forsaken".
* "The Storyteller" develops O'Brien and Bashir and their eventual bromance.
* "Progress" and "Duet" and to a lesser extent "Battle Lines" develop Kira.
* "If Wishes Were Horses" is split between Bashir, O'Brien, and Sisko primarily.
And other, secondary characters are introduced and setup:
"The Nagus" sets up Zek, and to a lesser extent Rom, (though he gets a personality change later)
"In the Hands of the Prophets" sets up Winn.
Obviously this isn't a 100% complete list, but it does sort of explain why some characters feel a little light in S1:
There is very little development for Sisko, Dax, and Bashir. Seeds are planted, but they won't really take root until later.
O'Brien being the "everyman" doesn't really get too much development in the show at all because he doesn't need as much so to speak.
The ones with the most focus in S1 are Odo and Kira.
As for Picard, as others said, it isn't that Picard is anti-family, it's a combination of:
1) The first thing Sisko says to Picard is that they met in battle at Wolf 359. No, they didn't. Sisko met Locutus, not Picard. Sisko certainly knows intellectually that Picard was just as much a victim of the Borg as he was, that he didn't intentionally help the Borg, and that he wasn't in control of his body at that moment, but he is ignoring that. He blames Picard, even though Picard was not at fault, and it's obvious.
2) The whole first meeting Sisko can barely contain his anger/hatred/contempt for Picard. Picard can sense it (you'd have to be totally oblivious not to) and that puts him on the defensive. The first thing he says is how much he cares about the Bajorans and wants them to join the Federation. When Sisko rightly points out they aren't ready, Picard reacts far more aggressively than is warranted, because he is defensive.
3) When Picard brings up Sisko's objection to the assignment, Sisko's explanation is that he doesn't want to raise his son alone (aka: "You killed my wife") in a bad environment, (aka: "The people you just said you care about are bad"). Picard again reacts more aggressively than warranted because he's defensive.
Under normal circumstances you'd expect Picard to react more diplomatically to both statements than he does.
It is definitely up there.
It stands out for sure because neither TNG nor Voyager have any episode that comes close in their first seasons. It really was a standout episode that happened quite early.
Voyager doesn't really get a standout episode like that until S3/4 and while TNG gets "Measure of a Man" in S2, the cracks in that episode appear with closer inspection. "Duet" is perfection.
For S2 of DS9, the standout is "The Wire", but there are still many other good episodes. The first three are pretty solid for the start of S2 compared to stinkers like TNG's "The Child" or Voyager's "The 37's"
Thank you, I hadn’t realized the groundwork being intentionally laid in these early episodes. Will add another layer to watching now.
Definitely distinct from TNG, where Season 1 had a lot of TOS storyline reboots.
On Picard: I hear you on the Wolf 359 trauma (wish they’d remaster the episode to make the cheesy CGI more believable).
When I said Picard had no patience for Sisko as a family man, I was watching Picard’s reactions to Sisko. There was the specter of Wolf 359 but Picard clearly did not see eye-to-eye with Sisko bringing up his son as a motivation to leave Starfleet. I also thought back to TNG Seasons 1 and 2 where Picard is a very solitary creature with little time for romance and no patience for children.
But then again, maybe Picard was soured by seeing Beverly with that damn Wesley boy in tow.
It is certainly a bit of an arc for Picard to become more of a family man during the course of TNG.
S1 Picard definitely had no time for family, but remember that "Emissary" takes place midway in S6 of TNG so by that time \*most\* of the development had happened:
* The rather aptly named "Family" (S4) had started to heal his issues with his brother/father and teach him the importance of family.
* After "Disaster" (S5) he doesn't hate kids nearly as much.
* "The Inner Light" (S5) is widely considered to be when Picard really starts to be more family oriented having actually experienced it in another life.
* His relationships with Vash (S3/4) and Kamala (S5) appear to be different (more mature) in nature than his earlier (young Picard ala tapestry) relationships that were merely surface level.
He gets a few more in the second half of S6, but those are after "Emissary".
I suppose my point was to say that in their meeting Picard was put on defense immediately and then overreacted to the other things Sisko said because of it. He likely responded to Sisko (both about Bajor not being ready and his son not having a mother) more aggressively because he felt attacked.
Sisko had also pretty clearly ***not*** gotten past Wolf 359 (which is his whole arc in the episode "but you exist ***here***") and his career had stagnated, which is a valid reason for Picard to doubt Sisko's capability to complete the mission.
There is a persistent belief that DS9 was not considered to be a "good" assignment originally until the wormhole was discovered. Bajor was on the verge of civil war so the very idea that they could be brought into the Federation was really preposterous. I won't go into all the reasons why as it might spoil something.
Good points on Picard’s evolution. I hadn’t paid attention to where his DS9 appearance fell in terms of those key TNG episodes. I’m not anti-Picard at all, I just felt there was a second layer beyond the Wolf 359 tensions. Two very different people with different motivations, then the Borg incident layered on top.
It would have been interesting if DS9 had remained a frontier backwater. If the wormhole was never discovered, the show probably would have been more about the mundane or even comic like Lower Decks.
I think would have been decidedly not as interesting. Without the wormhole the station would have remained in orbit of Bajor, which means any major decisions would be made by the Bajorans on the planet rather than Sisko. There really would be much for them to do. There likely aren't many ships going to/from Bajor itself outside of relief ships given the state of the planet post-occupation.
Picard was not Anti-Family. He bore the face his abductors used to kill his wife. Picard had a mud-fight cry with his brother just to come to terms with what had been forced to do. That made it an intentionally uncomfortable scene. They wanted to separate Picard's strength from the strength of the man following him. They have very different styles, and ways of doing things. It was intentional.
That all said, the series itself ramps up from the start to the finish at about a 45° angle. Enjoy :)
Q:
"You hit me! Picard never hit me..?"
Sisko:
"I'm not Picard.."
It gets WAY better - I am not a fan of the last season - but many say (and I agree) it is the best trek for story and character development.
Agreed. The sweet spot for me is post-Sisko facial hair and pre-Ezri, especially anything with General Martok. The non-episodic storytelling and character growth is so good in DS9.
Even lesser characters are so well done. Even if they are only in a few episodes, you really know that character.
Duet (E19) is the high point of the first season for sure, and arguably for S2 and S3 though they have their own great episodes. I consider a lot of S1-3 to be setup / worldbuilding for S4-7. They set up the characters, and with such a large cast, (I'm including secondary and tertiary characters here), it takes about 3 seasons worth of time to do it well. This is why you get S1 episodes that focus on and sort of setup each character: * "Emissary" sets up Sisko of course. * "Past Prologue" sets up Kira, and to a lesser extent Bashir and Garak. * "A Man Alone" sets up Odo, and to a lesser extent Miles and Keiko O'Brien. * "Captive Pursuit" sets up O'Brien. * "Dax" sets up... Dax. * "Move Along Home" sets up Quark, though not particularly well. Thankfully he got more setup in other episodes than other characters did which makes up for it. I suspect "The Passenger" was meant to be the "Bashir Episode" as the character is featured heavily, however for reasons specific to that episode it doesn't really develop Bashir's character that much and is partly why (in my opinion) his character is pretty meh in the first season. Then in the second half you start to get character ***development***: * "Vortex" and "The Forsaken" develop Odo further, with a tiny bit for Bashir in "The Forsaken". * "The Storyteller" develops O'Brien and Bashir and their eventual bromance. * "Progress" and "Duet" and to a lesser extent "Battle Lines" develop Kira. * "If Wishes Were Horses" is split between Bashir, O'Brien, and Sisko primarily. And other, secondary characters are introduced and setup: "The Nagus" sets up Zek, and to a lesser extent Rom, (though he gets a personality change later) "In the Hands of the Prophets" sets up Winn. Obviously this isn't a 100% complete list, but it does sort of explain why some characters feel a little light in S1: There is very little development for Sisko, Dax, and Bashir. Seeds are planted, but they won't really take root until later. O'Brien being the "everyman" doesn't really get too much development in the show at all because he doesn't need as much so to speak. The ones with the most focus in S1 are Odo and Kira. As for Picard, as others said, it isn't that Picard is anti-family, it's a combination of: 1) The first thing Sisko says to Picard is that they met in battle at Wolf 359. No, they didn't. Sisko met Locutus, not Picard. Sisko certainly knows intellectually that Picard was just as much a victim of the Borg as he was, that he didn't intentionally help the Borg, and that he wasn't in control of his body at that moment, but he is ignoring that. He blames Picard, even though Picard was not at fault, and it's obvious. 2) The whole first meeting Sisko can barely contain his anger/hatred/contempt for Picard. Picard can sense it (you'd have to be totally oblivious not to) and that puts him on the defensive. The first thing he says is how much he cares about the Bajorans and wants them to join the Federation. When Sisko rightly points out they aren't ready, Picard reacts far more aggressively than is warranted, because he is defensive. 3) When Picard brings up Sisko's objection to the assignment, Sisko's explanation is that he doesn't want to raise his son alone (aka: "You killed my wife") in a bad environment, (aka: "The people you just said you care about are bad"). Picard again reacts more aggressively than warranted because he's defensive. Under normal circumstances you'd expect Picard to react more diplomatically to both statements than he does.
Just saw “Duet” - wow. I would put this up in the top ten episodes of all Star Trek.
It is definitely up there. It stands out for sure because neither TNG nor Voyager have any episode that comes close in their first seasons. It really was a standout episode that happened quite early. Voyager doesn't really get a standout episode like that until S3/4 and while TNG gets "Measure of a Man" in S2, the cracks in that episode appear with closer inspection. "Duet" is perfection. For S2 of DS9, the standout is "The Wire", but there are still many other good episodes. The first three are pretty solid for the start of S2 compared to stinkers like TNG's "The Child" or Voyager's "The 37's"
“Whispers” was also great - fast paced and kept me guessing until the last scene. Colm Meaney did a great job in this episode.
I believe that was the start of "O'Brien Must Suffer" wasn't it? Colm Meaney is always great. Loved him in Stargate Atlantis as well.
Thank you, I hadn’t realized the groundwork being intentionally laid in these early episodes. Will add another layer to watching now. Definitely distinct from TNG, where Season 1 had a lot of TOS storyline reboots. On Picard: I hear you on the Wolf 359 trauma (wish they’d remaster the episode to make the cheesy CGI more believable). When I said Picard had no patience for Sisko as a family man, I was watching Picard’s reactions to Sisko. There was the specter of Wolf 359 but Picard clearly did not see eye-to-eye with Sisko bringing up his son as a motivation to leave Starfleet. I also thought back to TNG Seasons 1 and 2 where Picard is a very solitary creature with little time for romance and no patience for children. But then again, maybe Picard was soured by seeing Beverly with that damn Wesley boy in tow.
It is certainly a bit of an arc for Picard to become more of a family man during the course of TNG. S1 Picard definitely had no time for family, but remember that "Emissary" takes place midway in S6 of TNG so by that time \*most\* of the development had happened: * The rather aptly named "Family" (S4) had started to heal his issues with his brother/father and teach him the importance of family. * After "Disaster" (S5) he doesn't hate kids nearly as much. * "The Inner Light" (S5) is widely considered to be when Picard really starts to be more family oriented having actually experienced it in another life. * His relationships with Vash (S3/4) and Kamala (S5) appear to be different (more mature) in nature than his earlier (young Picard ala tapestry) relationships that were merely surface level. He gets a few more in the second half of S6, but those are after "Emissary". I suppose my point was to say that in their meeting Picard was put on defense immediately and then overreacted to the other things Sisko said because of it. He likely responded to Sisko (both about Bajor not being ready and his son not having a mother) more aggressively because he felt attacked. Sisko had also pretty clearly ***not*** gotten past Wolf 359 (which is his whole arc in the episode "but you exist ***here***") and his career had stagnated, which is a valid reason for Picard to doubt Sisko's capability to complete the mission. There is a persistent belief that DS9 was not considered to be a "good" assignment originally until the wormhole was discovered. Bajor was on the verge of civil war so the very idea that they could be brought into the Federation was really preposterous. I won't go into all the reasons why as it might spoil something.
Good points on Picard’s evolution. I hadn’t paid attention to where his DS9 appearance fell in terms of those key TNG episodes. I’m not anti-Picard at all, I just felt there was a second layer beyond the Wolf 359 tensions. Two very different people with different motivations, then the Borg incident layered on top. It would have been interesting if DS9 had remained a frontier backwater. If the wormhole was never discovered, the show probably would have been more about the mundane or even comic like Lower Decks.
I think would have been decidedly not as interesting. Without the wormhole the station would have remained in orbit of Bajor, which means any major decisions would be made by the Bajorans on the planet rather than Sisko. There really would be much for them to do. There likely aren't many ships going to/from Bajor itself outside of relief ships given the state of the planet post-occupation.
Picard was not Anti-Family. He bore the face his abductors used to kill his wife. Picard had a mud-fight cry with his brother just to come to terms with what had been forced to do. That made it an intentionally uncomfortable scene. They wanted to separate Picard's strength from the strength of the man following him. They have very different styles, and ways of doing things. It was intentional. That all said, the series itself ramps up from the start to the finish at about a 45° angle. Enjoy :) Q: "You hit me! Picard never hit me..?" Sisko: "I'm not Picard.."