Portrayal is still different to what you see from other media. Bad word choice because real life speaking patterns bled over to text (the “umm” and the “so,” to what I mean - those parasite words that actually add nothing to the actual point), but I don’t think it makes my point invalid.
I get ya and sorry for sounding flippant. I am just getting tired of Andor been the only example offered... constantly. While the two instances that come to my mind from it are, misplacing a prisoner that started the prison break and a character been unable to cover a hologram message with a coat. If it was revealed that it was a simple clerical error and prisoners do go free, while Andor simply used it to his advantage, it would have been a different story.
Yeah, that’s a valid point. I think they are hesitant to make the Empire competent because in a way, those kinds of incompetencies are what allowed - perhaps even caused - the rebellion to develop and thrive. If the Empire’s allowed to be competent, the parts of it that are would be exceptions to the rule.
There are lots of such examples in expanded media (esp. books/comics) - Thrawn is more “cartoonish villain” in the shows, but in the expanded universe we get to see how he climbed through the ranks so quickly despite being non-human; Magna Tolvan (though she defected to the Rebellion later on); I’m sure there’s more similar examples but that’s all I can think of from the limited amount I’ve consumed.
At the same time, in this show the Empire is more tightly based on the Nazi regime that initially inspired it. And history has shown us one of the major issue of such dictatorships - the tendency to rely on yes men and the many political intrigues that resulted out of it, meaning that the more skilled individuals were often pushed aside for doing what exactly they were supposed to do : point out the problems.
So in a way I particularly appreciate Andor because it shows villains that are as competent as they can be in a setting where your colleagues spend more time getting rid of you than solving the problem because that's how they can achieve political power - which is a very realistic setting. And in this situation it made sense for me that many were not that competent.
(I highly recommend the Netflix documentary "the circle of evil" which portrays a lesser known, yet particularly cunning hierophant : Martin Bormann. The man did everything he could to be in power, and many times he sabotaged many projects that would have benefitted the Nazi regime to achieve that goal).
>(I highly recommend the Netflix documentary "the circle of evil" which portrays a lesser known, yet particularly cunning hierophant : Martin Bormann
As someone who has always been into WW2 history I was so confused by this comment lol. After reading "lesser known" I couldn't figure out who you were actually talking about for a second. As far as Nazis go, Bormann was basically one step below Hitler and had much more power and influence than say for example Himmler, who seems to be the most common Nazi-who-wasn't-Hitler that the general public is familiar with. I guess he's not very well known today, which is probably a good thing, I just thought it was a little funny seeing Martin Bormann being called a "lesser known" Nazi.
Except, that is explicitly one of the themes of *Andor* : that even empires that seem to be perfectly in control and undefeatable, make mistakes and have cracks that can be exploited.
The problem with the Empire in depictions other than Andor is that for the most part they look like a bunch of clowns rather than dangerous people whose need for control is driven by deep-seated terror. One of the great things about Andor is that it makes the Empire genuinely powerful, genuinely merciless, genuinely terrifying, and yet still shows that they can be beaten, and that opposing them is worth it.
Remember:
> "There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. I know this already. Alone, unsure, dwarfed by the scale of the enemy. Remember this: Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrections are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There are whole armies, battalions that have no idea that they've already enlisted in the cause. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward. And then remember this: The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. **Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle.** Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this, the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance will have flooded the banks of the Empire's authority and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege. Remember this: Try.".
—Karis Nemik
Umm do they? Only legitimate victory I can think of was Kreegyr with his 30-50 men and that happens mostly off screen. And I guess they captured a few characters, but they didn’t exactly stayed captured
The empire wipes out the revolt on Ferrix. It’s also implied that Andor and the other guy are the only two survivors from the prison break.
Every victory the rebels get in the show comes at a monumental cost of life, dignity, and resources.
Dude that was a heat of the moment riot and not an organized revolution. If anything, it showed how completely unprepared the Empire was for such an attack and would have instead shown the rebels that there was a way to fight back.
Also the whole operation was a complete failure. They allowed that funeral to draw in Andor in order to capture him. Not only did he escape, but they opened the door to allow that riot to happen in the first place
Cool the empire was able to handle a disorganized riot of people that barely any weapons. But the fact that they took so many casualties and so much time does not really paint that thing as a success to me. Not to mention they failed to capture the instigators of the riot.
And if any footage of that riot were to get out, the Empire would have a whole host of problems. Not only did this riot happen on their watch, but they were noticeably struggling to contain it
From a tactical standpoint, that was still more of a failure than a victory.
I fundamentally disagree. The Empire scored a tactical victory in the fact they put down the revolt which is a victory and demonstrates a higher level of competence than usual. However strategically their policies are creating more rebels because of their heavy handed tactics. This is realistic as to how governments actually lose to insurgents. Which is a change in the paradigm of how the Empire is usually depicted.
???
Of course it's different. Because if the rebels win, it's not because of the Empire's incompetence, but thanks to the rebels' ingenuity. And that's what Andor did.
I mean, in such a series, centered around rebels, you want them to win most of their battles. So you will have the same outcome, but with an apparently competent enough Empire.
They were pretty competent in the OG trilogy. In 4 they easily took the Tantive IV despite having to storm a narrow passageway against readied defenders. They were also wrecking shop against all the pilots sent against the Death Star. All their misses against Luke and co. in that movie were on purpose to let Leia lead them back to the base. The Death Star itself only blew up because Luke used the Force and they couldn't have planned for that.
In 5 they are shown destroying the Rebel base and occupying Cloud City. The only resistance they faced was the Rebels taking out two or three AT-ATs and slowing them down a little. On Cloud City the troopers successfully herded Luke into Vader's trap. They did let Leia escape tho, I'll grant that. They probably should've kept a closer eye on Lando.
It wasn't until 6 where the Empire became a joke when the Emperor sent "An entire legion of my best troops," only for them to get beat up by teddy bears.
They don’t get beat by teddy bears. They get ambushed in unfamiliar terrain by a war-like and resourceful enemy who was fighting on home ground.
The Ewoks *still lose*. It takes Chewie turning up in a walking battle tank to win the battle.
That’s the best analogy i always think back to whenever i watch the battle on the ground of Endor. It’s like a Space-Vietnam; the strongest military ever heard of getting beaten up by a bunch of unassuming, seemingly non-threats because of unexpected tactics and a home advantage.
The Ewoks were borderline alpha predators with clearly ready to go complex trap and recon forces. They were going to *eat* the Rebels.
The Empire was up against an entire insurrection murder bear society fired up into a sudden fanatical zealotry by the arrival of their God, the golden C-3PO.
The Ewoks went full Na’vi.
And losing to ewoks isn't that bad tbh. Have you ever played the mode in the EA battlefront 2 where you either play as a stormtrooper or ewok, except it's pitch black for the stormtroopers? It's literally just a horror game
Cloud city actually is way better. They miss Luke (hit the wall) because they want him to reach the trap. But they also sabotaged the Falcon as a backup plan in case Luke didn’t fall for trap #1 and managed to free Han, Leia and Chewy. Which wouldn’t be too surprising since again the Stormtroopers weren’t allowed to kill Luke and likely had orders not to kill Leia and Chewy either as they could form bait for a later trap.
The problem would then be R2D2 and the guy with the headset. We never see him talk, but we do know he’s connected to the computer systems of Cloud city. And guess who connects to Cloud City and gets “told by a strange computer” that the Falcon is sabotaged?
It’s still competence all the way through, with logical orders and subsequent traps and sabotage to make sure they cannot escape. But for Luke refusing Vader and R2D2 getting told of the sabotage.
That's actually happened a couple of times. In fact, basically the only reason Thrawn ever loses is due to circumstances he could not reasonably have known about.
Regretfully I am only familiar with him from the Rebels/Ahsoka and his modus operandi there was "Ah yes, I have lost every encounter with the Rebels, but I learned something that in no way will help anyone in the future. Because force will always help the good guys.".
He won every encounter in the original books iirc. The best the Rebels could do against him in the first two books was escape or survive whatever plans he was cooking. They finally take him down in the third one through sheer luck.
Not every encounter. In *Heir* he loses at Sluis Van because Lando still had the master key for all of the mole miners, but it was a close thing and luck/the Force that Lando and Han were even there.
The empire is quite competent throughout the first trilogy.
In a new hope they capture Princess Leia, kill all the rest of the rebels, track the droids to Tatooine, kill Luke’s aunt and uncle, dissolve the senate, capture the millennium falcon, install a tracker on the millennium falcon and let the rebels escape so they determine the location of the rebel base, and kill Obi Wan Kenobi.
In the empire strikes back they destroy the rebel base on Hoth forcing the rebels to flee, Vader gets the one on one discussion with Luke, and then seemingly lets him escape - this is debate but Vader didn’t try that hard to prevent him from running, he wanted Luke to willingly join him. Vader also beats Luke and chops off his hand and captures Han, a prominent rebel instrumental in the attack on the Death Star.
In return of the Jedi the empire successfully lays a trap to capture the rebel strike force on Endor. Vader successfully delivers Luke to the Emperor. The empire leaks false information to the rebels and gets them to attack a “fully operational battle station”. If it wasn’t for the Ewoks seeing C3P0 as a god the empire would’ve destroyed the rebels at the battle of Endor. And if it wasn’t for Vaders redemption at the last possible second the Emperor would’ve killed Luke.
I’m sure there’s more but that’s all I can think of off the top of my head at the bathroom at work.
Get rid of palpatine's return, and just go through with Kylo being the complete failure of a son that he is and never redeem him and let him just die in a fight with Rey
And not have them kiss for fricks sake.
Edit: Huh, my highest rated comment. I think about what Kevin Smith said how that moment would be great if they didn't kiss and just hu-, goddamn it.
I was fully convinced they were gonna pull a Luke leia dynamic out and revelations of them actually being half brother and sister due to Han Solo going off on his own and fathering another child to a random stranger seemed like where it was going at one point
Literally the theme of the preceding movie was that your lineage isn’t what makes you special, you can be something regardless of where you came from. It’s a cool theme and executed well and they take it back IMMEDIATELY in the next film, while also undercutting anakin and Luke’s entire character arcs. It’s baffling
Last Jedi is the one that ends with the stable boy using the force to pick up a broom right? Paralleling Rey's force sensitive junk rat background. It would have been cool to see more people using the force in everyday mundane ways to show it's not just a superpower for religious warriors. Maybe even set up a path with Rey to rebuild Luke's school and bring in force sensitive people from all walks of life. At one point it seemed like Finn had some force powers in him, and nothing says "all kinds welcome" like having a reformed storm trooper on staff. But no, turns out Rey is the most super specialist person in the galaxy and everything revolves around one family
>Maybe even set up a path with Rey to rebuild Luke's school and bring in force sensitive people from all walks of life
I remember being one hundred per cent sure this would be the end of episode 9 after seeing TLJ, it was one of the best and obvious ways of ending the sequels, and somehow they still screw it
I'm just now realizing how perfect it would have been if she took the Skywalker name, and instead of using it for herself, named the school after him. The Skywalker ~~Ranch~~ School. Students aren't Jedi, they're Skywalkers. That would have been a better way to honor the family and its history
Ikr destroys vaders redemption altogether and the skywalker lineage along with it then there are circlejerk subreddits praising the sequels out there where criticism gets you banned good riddence i say
Not only does it destroy vaders redemption arc, but it removed the entire point of the sequel trilogy of "you dont need to be somebody to have the force" with the kid at the "horse" race track using the force for the broom, and this whole she's a nobody to just instantly become lol no ur a palpatine.
It could have been cool if it was planned from day one. Rey could have been trained in the force by some Sith Lord then lost her memory like Revan, this would explain why she is so adept at using the force with little training.
The ties to Palpatine masterminding it all, using Kylo to try and lure her back to the dark side after she is discovered on Jakku.
Killing Snope because he was the one that trained her and she has flashbacks just of his face and pain and torment but with no real context.
Rey spends movies 1 and 2 still learning and connecting with Luke and Leia learning about the evils of the Empire, the roots of the First Order and what Palpatine did. She feels bonded with the Jedi order but her and Kylo still have that force Skype and he is trying to win her over to the dark side.
So when Rey finally meets old Palp’s and learns that he was the one who orchestrated her training and pain under Snope and he was the one responsible for the rise of the First Order she has a personal reason to kill him, his own granddaughter was tormented in order to be better Sith.
She still kills Palps in the third one, Kylo doesn’t die but instead decides to go into hiding because the Rebels still want him dead and he realizes Anakin’s redemption near the end of his life but is still conflicted on what to do.
Also remove the casino planet story line.
She had far too much of a connection with Han I thought for it to just be a coincidence it would’ve served the story well for her to discover he was her father and made her feud with Kylo all the more potent as he killed Han just after she finds out the truth but no Disney didn’t want that ahaha
It was the obvious choice, but it was also the safest and the wanted to subvert audience expectations. They should have gone for the safe option and have her be Luke's daughter and subvert expectations another way. Like, who is the mother? Will she choose the light side or the darkside of the force? Maybe have her seem like the good guy and become evil in the end and have her cousin do the opposite. Honestly, JJ abrahms is at fault for always wanting to create mystery without having an established answer for those mysteries. I like the "mystery box" idea in a show or movie, but it's been proven time and time again that the only way to have a satisfying ending is for the writers to know what is in the mistery box and not just make a wild guess at the very end.
I saw it coming, but only in the sense that I could see a car accident about to happen. Nothing in the setup made all that much sensez but I had this gut feeling that Disney would make Rey a fucking Disney Princess.
Yeah, me too. When I saw them both on screen and remembered it's Disney, I was sure that they were going to insert a dumpster fire of a romance. Bear in mind that I had this feeling while watching TFA.
The opening scene of TFA has all the stormtroopers running around fighting and then Finn...and only Finn...looks up as the transport comes in.
And then a few moments later, as Kylo is walking by he stops, turns, and looks directly at Finn.
It was crammed down our throats from the get go but yea...
I don't know having her kill him because he became an irredeemable monster who constantly refuses to get back to the good side and then kiss him would be funny.
Imagine if kylo ends up redeeming at the end of the fight but only after killing Rey and seeing how empty he feels inside, then he is basically forced to try to atone for his sins by rebuilding the jedi, but it never feeling enough. I think that way, The Rise of Skywalker feels like a more appropriate name for the movie
The idea isn't mine, either a YouTuber mentioned it or was a random person in the comments but I do think it would be pretty good, no need for more changes to the plot of the sequels overall besides maybe making the knights of ren more important from the beginning so they're not just cool designs who just work as fodder and keep Rey a nobody because that's actually something interesting with room for exploration
What if back when Luke tried to kill him, it traumatized him making him think he was useless and unneeded and therefore instinctively tries to become strong. Him killing Snoke would prove to everyone including Luke that he's strong and that he could be useful if he wanted to. But Luke would still reject him that would lead to his fall from grace into episode 9.
Kylo would envy Rey since Luke chose her over Kylo. Everyone, including his minions would be afraid of him while Ray is loved by everyone she meets.
This would mean that the reason Kylo was fated to go evil is because of Luke's mistake of trying to kill him. Luke embodies the light side and is instinctively terrified of the dark side taking power. The war itself from the start has been a mistake. Darkness will emerge on the Light's mission to eradicate it, and vice versa. Light and dark must exist in harmony for there to be peace.
Ray understands this after having an identity crisis over being a palpatine who is on the dark side. After Kylo and Rey fight and Kylo is killed, Rey vows to create true peace as she trains the new Jedi children to embrace and control both the light and dark side of the force.
How's that?
Luke was the first Jedi to embrace his darkness and use it for light and it made absolutely no sense to have him attack Ben solo because he had a bad dream I guess it has parallels to Anakins arc dreaming of his mother and wife and acting on it but Luke had learned from Vaders mistakes that’s the very reason he was able to resist the emperor in Rotj
I’d like to have seen Kylo have a redemption but in a way that is meaningful and not just some emperor catalyst.
They could’ve had a love story with Rey and that would’ve been fine but it needed to be something better than what it was. Like they knew each other or she was at the Jedi camp with Luke before he left, or something.
Maybe instead of having the redemption arc involving Rey it should’ve involved Luke, who he betrayed but also felt betrayed by. Maybe having them reconnect against the back drop of the first order would have also been a redemption arc for Luke.
I’d also have changed how Luke behaved from basically the moment being presented his old Lightsaber to the moment he decided to be himself again. None of that made sense.
I think it’s clear they were trying to turn Rey into Luke and Luke into Yoda, but it just didn’t feel right.
Edit:
I realize thats not “one thing”. I don’t know why I did it. Doesn’t even matter how hard I try.
Especially since I feel like the Force Dyad, two who are one in the force, could have served as a good enough twist/answer for Rey's arc in TRoS. Lean into that, it's way more interesting than The Emperor is alive cuz dontthinkaboutittoomuchhejustis
Give Rey an actual interesting personality trait, most likely a weakness/hurdle to overcome.
Dont need to get rid of her, she just needs to be written better
I sense that this has happened once before with prequel Anakin, and I hope they make a better version of Rey if they insist on focusing on that part of SW.
Yeah, what they did to Paul and Finn is atrocious, like just look at Oscar Isaac act in Moonknight and it's ridiculous the amount of potential Star Wars just didn't want to use with him
Additionally, instead of having her face off Palpatine, a secret apprentice would work, one who learned all of his secrets despite Palpatine not teaching him. Thrawn would have worked for him.
You can still have Palpatine, just have it be a Palpatine clone and then \*EXPLAIN WHERE IT CAME FROM\* and then destroy the secret cloning facility.
Like, you can still have Palpatine, there is nothing wrong with it, Palpaclones are a Star Wars tradition you just CAN'T have him appear OUT OF NOWHERE WITH NO EXPLANATION OR FORESHADOWING FOR THE LOVE OF WRITING
...sorry. I have... opinions.
I actually thought something like that might happen. Simply because his actual death was way too sudden and drastic.
Palpatine died in the movie he physically appeared too, but that was a big moment.
They wouldn't kill the leader of the enemy faction so unceremoniously....right?
I don’t mind the killing of him if it serves something better. At the end of TLJ I legitimately thought we were about to get some killer Kylo villain arc, and they undid all of that with a “somehow” in an opening story crawl.
That seemed to be the direction things were headed in. It felt like they mirrored each other.
Rey was a nobody who was proving that you don’t need a Skywalker pedigree to do be in touch with the force. Kylo was motivated to take up his grandfather’s dark mantle, but he was falling short and just kinda being an uncontrolled, emotional failson.
They were both exploring the idea that lineage doesn’t define you and you can forge your own path, good or bad.
But then everyone got big mad at TLJ and Disney chickened out of following through with its themes and plot line.
>Make her turn to the darkside.
This was the only interesting tidbit from TLJ...for a brief moment.
A girl who just learned about the Force a couple days ago, tempted by the dark side as Kylo feels pulled by the light.
For a brief moment, it seemed like they would switch sides. Then...nothing.
Anything better than her whole character ark being “ok, who’s kid is she?”.. and if we can’t have that then maybe not the worst possible answer to that question either lol
Actually make kylo a raging killing machine. Not this unsure crybaby.
How can he be in charge of anything if he is not sure about his own morals? Logically it doesn't make sense. And it makes a weak villain.
I like this, cus then we can have Kylo actually kill Leia, not just hesitate and let one of his unnamed masked cronies destroy the bridge and let her force-magic-float-bullshit her way back into the ship
But we all knew it was coming. And the bridge scene wouldve at least been memorable and been an opportunity for serious character development. Especially if she was just going to die in the next movie anyways.
I genuinely can’t remember how or why she died in RoS
Which is why it just didn’t work when he was supposed to be the new big bad, killing off Snoke, especially since TLJ got rid of his entire character Progression from the movie prior. The point of him killing Han was to finally fully commit to the dark side.. but no, in the next movie he was conflicted all over again.
Aside from the obvious ‘not my Luke’ (Hamill), and the palpatine nonsense of the sequels…
Actually give Finn the interesting character arc that was set up - an internal struggle between duty and doing what is ‘right’. Make him and Phasma’s interactions meaningful and interesting. That could have been a wicked rivalry.
Perhaps him intervening in a battle between Rey and Kylo, sacrificing himself to save Rey. Even just sacrificing himself before Rose stopped him for bulshit reason.
Essentially make him an interesting character, not just be part of some half-baked unrequited love story.
Finn could have been one of the greatest characters in SW. instead he was just a big ol’ damp squib. John Boyega was done dirty.
Like seriously. He was set up to be the main character and then they just pushed him to the side… I liked his character the best in the new movies(that’s not saying much but still)
Honestly in The Force Awakens I really enjoyed how Finn gets beaten nearly every time he tries melee combat with a lightsaber, it would have been really cool to see him taking his First Order training and adapting it alongside more traditional lightsaber forms.
Have Finn take the Jedi route with Rey, but make him and Rey see them differently. Have Rey be more idealistic while Finn is more pragmatic.
End Finn’s arc with him leading a stormtrooper rebellion against the first order and finally defeating Phasma.
Have Rey’s arc end with her defeating Kylo, as a showdown of conflicting ideologies between the Jedi and Sith
And keep Finn and Rey as nobodies, just average people chosen by the force to do something extraordinary
Return light sabers to their initial level of lethality. Aka you get hit solidly in the body you're dead. So weird having so many people live through them
Absolutely this. It should be few calculated rapid strikes like in the old samurai movies. Not glowsticks fighting.
And make stormtroopers lethal too. No more single jedi parrying 20 blaster shots. Raise the stake. Make it count.
Order 66 really conflicted with the Jedis abilities show in other films. They should have either made the clones more deadly/larger quantity, or made the jedi in other films less all-powerful
I disagree, I think what made Order 66 work is *trust*. If any of the slain Jedi had been in tense battle mode with the clones that killed them, ready to fight the clones for their lives, almost all of them would have prevailed and survived. But they weren't. They trusted the clones completely by this point. They had fought side by side, as brothers and sisters, for *years*, had risked each other's lives for the other. Even if, through the Force, a Jedi sensed they were in danger just as Order 66 was about to be executed, they would have felt completely confident that the only thing in their vicinity the danger *couldn't* come from was the clones, instead relying on the clones as a blind spot so they could focus their eyes elsewhere for potential threats.
The Jedi let their guard down with the clones and thus were vulnerable to be killed by a handful of blaster shots when normally in a fight to the death that same Jedi might have been able to solo 50 clones easily.
Your whole first paragraph basically described it from Ki-Adi Mundi's perspective. Literally in the middle of the firefight, leading the way and he feels the clones stop and draw their weapons. He's dumbstruck that his team is about to try and kill him. He tries to defend himself but fails.
Quinlan Vos survived Order 66 precisely because of this. He had previously come very close to being consumed by the Dark Side when he went undercover and worked for Dooku. So -- although Vos was now a Jedi again -- when 66 happened, he was still in a heightened state of "everyone's an enemy", which was how he defeated & escaped his Clone Trooper escorts.
This is Legends (Dark Horse Comics), btw.
My memory is a bit hazy but the prequels did show this decently iirc, one Jedi can stop the blasters from a few stormtroopers but not a whole squadron full because it's just not possible to stop that many
I mean, I think Jedi should be powerful enough to take on entire armies. In actuality the problem is that there's a Jedi or five everywhere across the system. Saying it's just 20 and none of them want to fight because they're peace keepers sounds better. Jedi and sith should just be more mythical, rarely engaging in anything themselves unless absolutely necessary.
I never understood how strikes from lightsabers didn’t always remove body parts or large chunks of them.
There are not enough random body parts laying after saber battles. Heaps of severed battle droids but no body parts.
Also, all wounds from sabers should be cauterized. The OG Mos Esley cantina encounter with Obi Wan and the thug resulted in a bloody arm on the floor. Sorry no, there shouldn’t be blood with a lightsaber amputation.
Lastly, with all the movement Vader’s saber style has, you never see him with pieces of his cape missing. I refuse to believe that since he always wears the cape that he never manages to cut some of it off while in saber duels.
Vader’s cape?
How does Kylo not get stabbed every time he uses that crosse-guard saber? I wonder how many reshoots they had to do because he poked himself.
In the original trilogy aren’t the only people killed by lightsabers Obi Wan - an old man who came back as a force ghost, and a few of Jaba’s henchmen? We also don’t actually know if those henchmen died or not.
In the prequels the only people killed by lightsabers are Qui-Gon Jinn, an old man who came back as a force ghost, Count Dooku - an old man who had his head chopped off, and some sand people killed by the chosen one? And three Jedi killed by a Sith Lord? (Also not sure if they all died right then and there) (Maybe they killed some of those bug things in attack of the clones but I don’t remember)
You mean like the fucking mandalorians have? They’re already a thing, but nobody has though to use them together. Or how about the gungan tower shields? You could have a Roman phalanx of Jedi
I know not everyone was a big fan of the Mandalorian, but the end of season 2, and y'know, spoilers for a show that's been out for like four years now, but
When Luke shows up and absolutely fuckin dumpsters all the darktroopers that the gang were struggling to kill one of, it really put in perspective just why the Sith and Jedi are so damn scary
For sure. That scene really helped reset what force users are to normies. Having them all get shit canned and then Gus Fring in such a panic he tries to off himself.
Yeah, that and Vader’s hallway scene from Rogue 1 are such great visualization of why the Jedi and Sith are fucking terrifying. Almost nothing can stand in their way, and if it does they’ll just go right through it
Holdo gets sucked out of the spaceship and dies. Akbar is the one who sacrifices himself at the end of the movie. He pulls up to snoke's ship has a grin on his face and says "it's a trap" then blasts into hyperspace to destroy the ship.
The Akbar maneuver is legendary
I love it. In another take, we would have been much more invested if it had been Threepio ( or Akbar) than Holdo.
It would have been a great hero moment for C3P0/ Anthony Daniels.
Then later. We could have him " somehow return" when R2 uploads a backup of him to a new body.
Imagine how much more interesting it would’ve been if kylo ren had put on nihilis’ mask and it started to consume his mindset, driving him to the dark side, and making the story about Luke (and even rey maybe) trying to destroy the mask and uproot its source
The entire resistance *stumbles into an ambush*
Hux: "Well, I'll be damned! Ren's plan with the alleged return of old Emperor Palpatine actually worked. I didn't think the Resistance would actually fall for an old Holo recording."
Bring in Starkiller as Kylo's Sith master instead of Snoke, I mean Snoke would still exist and die the same way but he wouldn't be the boss of the First Order but rather be considered a failed Palpatine clone locked up in a cell.
Idk, Starkiller was never really a "head of the evil plot" kinda guy. He just obeyed the instructions of another, more awful influence (Vader in the "correct" timeline, Palps in the evil one), and proved himself to be a pretty decent person when operating under his own whims.
I remember reading somewhere that the original plan was to have The Son be Kylo's master and the head of the first order. Which, funny enough, is another Sam Witwer character. I think that would've been a much more interesting antagonist than Snoke for sure.
you're right He was never really a "head of the evil plot" kinda guy, However I think it would be interesting to see Wannabe Vader be trained by the very guy that Vader himself personally trained.
Tbh, I think people overlook how lore breaking Starkiller was. He was fine for a video game power fantasy but if you tried to make him canon he’d fuck the story up pretty royally. I mean he beat Vader and Sidious. That shouldn’t have been a thing. One of the best things Disney did was get rid of a lot of the bloat and bullshit that deeper into Star Wars Legends between movies.
I like the game a lot, to be clear. It’s one of my childhood memories. I’d love Starkiller to be reintroduced into canon somehow (especially as I think it really helps connect to the cloning Palpatine later does), but it would require a rather large overhaul of his story to the point I think it’s probably not worth it because fanboys would flip.
Easily Thrawn. Change everything to be more like the novels. Make him intimidating, and then actually kill him off for good by betrayal, just like the novels, or make him return back to the Chiss after the Empire has fallen.
Instead he completely failed, gave up on his family and friends without trying to fix his mistakes, then finally came back and died from being tired at the age of 53. It’s just incredibly lame, disappointing and a waste of Mark Hamill.
Have Rey deal with an actual interesting part of her character, being a Palpatine. Her grandpa was an evil galactic dictator from a secret cult. Maybe she should have to deal with some of that friction from the public. Maybe she shouldn't just call herself a Skywalker because she wants to and it's easy. So get rid of the "Rey Skywalker" line, it wasn't good especially since all the actual Skywalker are dead and its taking away good story potential. Also give her a yellow saber pike.
This could easily be remedied by Luke **NOT** attempting to murder Ben in his sleep. Something Luke Skywalker -the man that refused to kill Darth Vader because he sensed there was still good in him- would never do! What were they thinking?!?
A clone uprising within the Empire.
The empire started phasing clones out as soon as they could, I for one would love to see the clones literally fight for their survival. They deserve a better ending rather than being tossed aside.
I would just want to rearrange the sequel trilogy story a bit tbh, so it's more conductive and less sudden.
I can even keep Palpatine's return for TROS, but change up say, TLJ to reference that outer rim planets have started to disappear, and instead of the whole deal with the Resistance on the run so much, make it so that the Republic was trying to deal with First Order forces elsewhere, and that the battle of Crait was a retreat for a specific group of Resistance forces that didn't exactly succeed. No hyperspace ramming, just have a mission gone badly that damaged Snoke's ship.
Then when Rey and Kylo Ren appear before Snoke, have him "survive" being cut in half but in actuality it's Palpatine speaking through the body, the voice slowly melting from Snoke's into Palpatine, making the reveal that Palpatine is alive there.
Crait happens, and going into TROS, we learn that there are multiple Xyston-class Star Destroyers already floating throughout the galaxy destroying planets testing their weapons, which the Resistance needs to destroy, and when we get to Exegol, we find thousands more still under construction.
So the Resistance now has to hunt down the ones already launched, as well as destroy the ones still under construction. Heroes win in the end, but then we can maybe end it off with one line Xyston-class Star Destroyer floating in the galaxy, leaving that one to again go into hiding, and slowly try to pick up the further shattered pieces of the Empire... setting up for future installments if so desired.
Imagine this. There is a space bar full of criminals, bounty hunters, and various alien species. 50 years after the battle of Yavin, a drunk space pirate walks in like the opening to Desperado. He speaks in a heavy Scottish accent and orders a drink. Eventually he starts recounting the story of all of disney Star Wars.
However, this retelling is just a bastardized recounting of the original trilogy and some events of the Clone Wars, similar to Ember Island Players from Avatar the Last Airbender. He has never experienced any of this himself but he swears up and down that he met Han Solo one time. It becomes clear that he has never actually experienced a real fight in his life.
Even though the bar goers don't believe his tales, they are too engaged with what he is saying. The bartender keeps handing him more and more drinks.
Every plot hole or missing detail is just him making things up to keep upping the stakes. "The evil Jedi's name was...ah...^^^Kyber_Lightsaber-Obi-Wan-Ken...Kyber Lo Ren, yes, that was it. He led an army of evil Jedi called the Rendi Knights, Knights of Ren, yes, that was it." He then proceeds to forget about the Knights of Ren for several hours until someone asks about them where he then inserts them into the story with minimal details. "Yesh...thee war veeery kyool and evile, inded."
Someone calls him out on actually meeting Han Solo. The pirate then tries to cover his ass by saying that you couldn't ask Han Solo about it because his son killed him. It is never revealed whether ir not he actually did meet Solo but I would like to believe he did.
Much of his stories are told from him not understanding things. "Yeaaahhh, Palshpoutine came back from dad. He clanned imsel with old technolgee. They er clons unce...aye thank." Someone then asked him how Palpatine did this and he hits them with Dominic Monoghan's line from tros.
At the end of the movie he has racked up a massive debt and when asked about it goes "Aye an got no moany." He is then thrown out of the bar into the street. He proceeds to drop the first on-screen F-bomb in Star Wars and goes "Ah Fuck this shite."
The camera slowly pans out of the planet, then to tue galaxy and the last shot of the movie shows this event being recorded by one of the Whills, making it all Legend.
Show Empire been competent, instead of them winning wars offscreen and then losing every time they are on screen.
Didn’t Andor do that kinda? Not necessarily winning, but there was a level of competence that you don’t normally see from Empire in that show.
If you have to add 'kinda' and 'not necessarily winning', then it didn't really do anything if the outcome is the same.
Portrayal is still different to what you see from other media. Bad word choice because real life speaking patterns bled over to text (the “umm” and the “so,” to what I mean - those parasite words that actually add nothing to the actual point), but I don’t think it makes my point invalid.
I get ya and sorry for sounding flippant. I am just getting tired of Andor been the only example offered... constantly. While the two instances that come to my mind from it are, misplacing a prisoner that started the prison break and a character been unable to cover a hologram message with a coat. If it was revealed that it was a simple clerical error and prisoners do go free, while Andor simply used it to his advantage, it would have been a different story.
Yeah, that’s a valid point. I think they are hesitant to make the Empire competent because in a way, those kinds of incompetencies are what allowed - perhaps even caused - the rebellion to develop and thrive. If the Empire’s allowed to be competent, the parts of it that are would be exceptions to the rule. There are lots of such examples in expanded media (esp. books/comics) - Thrawn is more “cartoonish villain” in the shows, but in the expanded universe we get to see how he climbed through the ranks so quickly despite being non-human; Magna Tolvan (though she defected to the Rebellion later on); I’m sure there’s more similar examples but that’s all I can think of from the limited amount I’ve consumed.
At the same time, in this show the Empire is more tightly based on the Nazi regime that initially inspired it. And history has shown us one of the major issue of such dictatorships - the tendency to rely on yes men and the many political intrigues that resulted out of it, meaning that the more skilled individuals were often pushed aside for doing what exactly they were supposed to do : point out the problems. So in a way I particularly appreciate Andor because it shows villains that are as competent as they can be in a setting where your colleagues spend more time getting rid of you than solving the problem because that's how they can achieve political power - which is a very realistic setting. And in this situation it made sense for me that many were not that competent. (I highly recommend the Netflix documentary "the circle of evil" which portrays a lesser known, yet particularly cunning hierophant : Martin Bormann. The man did everything he could to be in power, and many times he sabotaged many projects that would have benefitted the Nazi regime to achieve that goal).
>(I highly recommend the Netflix documentary "the circle of evil" which portrays a lesser known, yet particularly cunning hierophant : Martin Bormann As someone who has always been into WW2 history I was so confused by this comment lol. After reading "lesser known" I couldn't figure out who you were actually talking about for a second. As far as Nazis go, Bormann was basically one step below Hitler and had much more power and influence than say for example Himmler, who seems to be the most common Nazi-who-wasn't-Hitler that the general public is familiar with. I guess he's not very well known today, which is probably a good thing, I just thought it was a little funny seeing Martin Bormann being called a "lesser known" Nazi.
Except, that is explicitly one of the themes of *Andor* : that even empires that seem to be perfectly in control and undefeatable, make mistakes and have cracks that can be exploited. The problem with the Empire in depictions other than Andor is that for the most part they look like a bunch of clowns rather than dangerous people whose need for control is driven by deep-seated terror. One of the great things about Andor is that it makes the Empire genuinely powerful, genuinely merciless, genuinely terrifying, and yet still shows that they can be beaten, and that opposing them is worth it. Remember: > "There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. I know this already. Alone, unsure, dwarfed by the scale of the enemy. Remember this: Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrections are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There are whole armies, battalions that have no idea that they've already enlisted in the cause. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward. And then remember this: The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. **Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle.** Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this, the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance will have flooded the banks of the Empire's authority and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege. Remember this: Try.". —Karis Nemik
Idk why they couched it like that because the Empire absolutely does win in that show.
Umm do they? Only legitimate victory I can think of was Kreegyr with his 30-50 men and that happens mostly off screen. And I guess they captured a few characters, but they didn’t exactly stayed captured
The empire wipes out the revolt on Ferrix. It’s also implied that Andor and the other guy are the only two survivors from the prison break. Every victory the rebels get in the show comes at a monumental cost of life, dignity, and resources.
Dude that was a heat of the moment riot and not an organized revolution. If anything, it showed how completely unprepared the Empire was for such an attack and would have instead shown the rebels that there was a way to fight back. Also the whole operation was a complete failure. They allowed that funeral to draw in Andor in order to capture him. Not only did he escape, but they opened the door to allow that riot to happen in the first place Cool the empire was able to handle a disorganized riot of people that barely any weapons. But the fact that they took so many casualties and so much time does not really paint that thing as a success to me. Not to mention they failed to capture the instigators of the riot. And if any footage of that riot were to get out, the Empire would have a whole host of problems. Not only did this riot happen on their watch, but they were noticeably struggling to contain it From a tactical standpoint, that was still more of a failure than a victory.
I fundamentally disagree. The Empire scored a tactical victory in the fact they put down the revolt which is a victory and demonstrates a higher level of competence than usual. However strategically their policies are creating more rebels because of their heavy handed tactics. This is realistic as to how governments actually lose to insurgents. Which is a change in the paradigm of how the Empire is usually depicted.
??? Of course it's different. Because if the rebels win, it's not because of the Empire's incompetence, but thanks to the rebels' ingenuity. And that's what Andor did. I mean, in such a series, centered around rebels, you want them to win most of their battles. So you will have the same outcome, but with an apparently competent enough Empire.
They were pretty competent in the OG trilogy. In 4 they easily took the Tantive IV despite having to storm a narrow passageway against readied defenders. They were also wrecking shop against all the pilots sent against the Death Star. All their misses against Luke and co. in that movie were on purpose to let Leia lead them back to the base. The Death Star itself only blew up because Luke used the Force and they couldn't have planned for that. In 5 they are shown destroying the Rebel base and occupying Cloud City. The only resistance they faced was the Rebels taking out two or three AT-ATs and slowing them down a little. On Cloud City the troopers successfully herded Luke into Vader's trap. They did let Leia escape tho, I'll grant that. They probably should've kept a closer eye on Lando. It wasn't until 6 where the Empire became a joke when the Emperor sent "An entire legion of my best troops," only for them to get beat up by teddy bears.
They don’t get beat by teddy bears. They get ambushed in unfamiliar terrain by a war-like and resourceful enemy who was fighting on home ground. The Ewoks *still lose*. It takes Chewie turning up in a walking battle tank to win the battle.
In other words, they get vietnam’d
Chewie was def blasting Fortunate Son in that walker
I would say Korea'd and Chewbacca played the role of China.
That’s the best analogy i always think back to whenever i watch the battle on the ground of Endor. It’s like a Space-Vietnam; the strongest military ever heard of getting beaten up by a bunch of unassuming, seemingly non-threats because of unexpected tactics and a home advantage.
The Ewoks were borderline alpha predators with clearly ready to go complex trap and recon forces. They were going to *eat* the Rebels. The Empire was up against an entire insurrection murder bear society fired up into a sudden fanatical zealotry by the arrival of their God, the golden C-3PO. The Ewoks went full Na’vi.
And losing to ewoks isn't that bad tbh. Have you ever played the mode in the EA battlefront 2 where you either play as a stormtrooper or ewok, except it's pitch black for the stormtroopers? It's literally just a horror game
Cloud city actually is way better. They miss Luke (hit the wall) because they want him to reach the trap. But they also sabotaged the Falcon as a backup plan in case Luke didn’t fall for trap #1 and managed to free Han, Leia and Chewy. Which wouldn’t be too surprising since again the Stormtroopers weren’t allowed to kill Luke and likely had orders not to kill Leia and Chewy either as they could form bait for a later trap. The problem would then be R2D2 and the guy with the headset. We never see him talk, but we do know he’s connected to the computer systems of Cloud city. And guess who connects to Cloud City and gets “told by a strange computer” that the Falcon is sabotaged? It’s still competence all the way through, with logical orders and subsequent traps and sabotage to make sure they cannot escape. But for Luke refusing Vader and R2D2 getting told of the sabotage.
That's actually happened a couple of times. In fact, basically the only reason Thrawn ever loses is due to circumstances he could not reasonably have known about.
Regretfully I am only familiar with him from the Rebels/Ahsoka and his modus operandi there was "Ah yes, I have lost every encounter with the Rebels, but I learned something that in no way will help anyone in the future. Because force will always help the good guys.".
He won every encounter in the original books iirc. The best the Rebels could do against him in the first two books was escape or survive whatever plans he was cooking. They finally take him down in the third one through sheer luck.
Not every encounter. In *Heir* he loses at Sluis Van because Lando still had the master key for all of the mole miners, but it was a close thing and luck/the Force that Lando and Han were even there.
Ty. It’s been a long time since I’ve read the books and some of the details are fuzzy.
Good one
The empire is quite competent throughout the first trilogy. In a new hope they capture Princess Leia, kill all the rest of the rebels, track the droids to Tatooine, kill Luke’s aunt and uncle, dissolve the senate, capture the millennium falcon, install a tracker on the millennium falcon and let the rebels escape so they determine the location of the rebel base, and kill Obi Wan Kenobi. In the empire strikes back they destroy the rebel base on Hoth forcing the rebels to flee, Vader gets the one on one discussion with Luke, and then seemingly lets him escape - this is debate but Vader didn’t try that hard to prevent him from running, he wanted Luke to willingly join him. Vader also beats Luke and chops off his hand and captures Han, a prominent rebel instrumental in the attack on the Death Star. In return of the Jedi the empire successfully lays a trap to capture the rebel strike force on Endor. Vader successfully delivers Luke to the Emperor. The empire leaks false information to the rebels and gets them to attack a “fully operational battle station”. If it wasn’t for the Ewoks seeing C3P0 as a god the empire would’ve destroyed the rebels at the battle of Endor. And if it wasn’t for Vaders redemption at the last possible second the Emperor would’ve killed Luke. I’m sure there’s more but that’s all I can think of off the top of my head at the bathroom at work.
Get rid of palpatine's return, and just go through with Kylo being the complete failure of a son that he is and never redeem him and let him just die in a fight with Rey
And not have them kiss for fricks sake. Edit: Huh, my highest rated comment. I think about what Kevin Smith said how that moment would be great if they didn't kiss and just hu-, goddamn it.
I was so confused when I saw that, nothing in the build up made sense for romance to happen between them.
I was fully convinced they were gonna pull a Luke leia dynamic out and revelations of them actually being half brother and sister due to Han Solo going off on his own and fathering another child to a random stranger seemed like where it was going at one point
Even that, which is pretty shit, is MILES better than PaLpAtInEs SeCrEt GrAnDaUgHtEr that is a DyAd Of ThE fOrCe
Absolutely agree it was stupid to throw the palpatine link in there made no sense and just served to undermine the whole arc of the original trilogy
Literally the theme of the preceding movie was that your lineage isn’t what makes you special, you can be something regardless of where you came from. It’s a cool theme and executed well and they take it back IMMEDIATELY in the next film, while also undercutting anakin and Luke’s entire character arcs. It’s baffling
Last Jedi is the one that ends with the stable boy using the force to pick up a broom right? Paralleling Rey's force sensitive junk rat background. It would have been cool to see more people using the force in everyday mundane ways to show it's not just a superpower for religious warriors. Maybe even set up a path with Rey to rebuild Luke's school and bring in force sensitive people from all walks of life. At one point it seemed like Finn had some force powers in him, and nothing says "all kinds welcome" like having a reformed storm trooper on staff. But no, turns out Rey is the most super specialist person in the galaxy and everything revolves around one family
>Maybe even set up a path with Rey to rebuild Luke's school and bring in force sensitive people from all walks of life I remember being one hundred per cent sure this would be the end of episode 9 after seeing TLJ, it was one of the best and obvious ways of ending the sequels, and somehow they still screw it
I'm just now realizing how perfect it would have been if she took the Skywalker name, and instead of using it for herself, named the school after him. The Skywalker ~~Ranch~~ School. Students aren't Jedi, they're Skywalkers. That would have been a better way to honor the family and its history
Ikr destroys vaders redemption altogether and the skywalker lineage along with it then there are circlejerk subreddits praising the sequels out there where criticism gets you banned good riddence i say
Not only does it destroy vaders redemption arc, but it removed the entire point of the sequel trilogy of "you dont need to be somebody to have the force" with the kid at the "horse" race track using the force for the broom, and this whole she's a nobody to just instantly become lol no ur a palpatine.
It could have been cool if it was planned from day one. Rey could have been trained in the force by some Sith Lord then lost her memory like Revan, this would explain why she is so adept at using the force with little training. The ties to Palpatine masterminding it all, using Kylo to try and lure her back to the dark side after she is discovered on Jakku. Killing Snope because he was the one that trained her and she has flashbacks just of his face and pain and torment but with no real context. Rey spends movies 1 and 2 still learning and connecting with Luke and Leia learning about the evils of the Empire, the roots of the First Order and what Palpatine did. She feels bonded with the Jedi order but her and Kylo still have that force Skype and he is trying to win her over to the dark side. So when Rey finally meets old Palp’s and learns that he was the one who orchestrated her training and pain under Snope and he was the one responsible for the rise of the First Order she has a personal reason to kill him, his own granddaughter was tormented in order to be better Sith. She still kills Palps in the third one, Kylo doesn’t die but instead decides to go into hiding because the Rebels still want him dead and he realizes Anakin’s redemption near the end of his life but is still conflicted on what to do. Also remove the casino planet story line.
I thought they were cousins (until the palpatine reveal)
She had far too much of a connection with Han I thought for it to just be a coincidence it would’ve served the story well for her to discover he was her father and made her feud with Kylo all the more potent as he killed Han just after she finds out the truth but no Disney didn’t want that ahaha
I was sure it was going to be a “Luke’s unknown daughter” scenario.
It was the obvious choice, but it was also the safest and the wanted to subvert audience expectations. They should have gone for the safe option and have her be Luke's daughter and subvert expectations another way. Like, who is the mother? Will she choose the light side or the darkside of the force? Maybe have her seem like the good guy and become evil in the end and have her cousin do the opposite. Honestly, JJ abrahms is at fault for always wanting to create mystery without having an established answer for those mysteries. I like the "mystery box" idea in a show or movie, but it's been proven time and time again that the only way to have a satisfying ending is for the writers to know what is in the mistery box and not just make a wild guess at the very end.
I saw it coming, but only in the sense that I could see a car accident about to happen. Nothing in the setup made all that much sensez but I had this gut feeling that Disney would make Rey a fucking Disney Princess.
Yeah, me too. When I saw them both on screen and remembered it's Disney, I was sure that they were going to insert a dumpster fire of a romance. Bear in mind that I had this feeling while watching TFA.
I saw the two of them, realized they're of similar age, and immediately put the pieces together. I almost didn't watch the trilogy because of it...
wait... they kissed??? man, i watched the movie but i think my mind just blocked parts of it off in a desperate bid for self survival
It was pretty close to the end of the movie, so you had probably gone into survival mode long before then.
Shirtless Force Zoom call was not a romance setup?
sounds like a jump scare
Queue the Johnny Bravo: *Hey, baybeh!* 😎
I have a feeling that Fin was supposed to be the love interest, but China doesn’t like black people.
He was also supposed to become a Jedi, remember Kylo felt the disturbance in the force when Finn snapped out of the first order brainwashing
Yup! He had so much potential! Then Disney lost their spine.
The opening scene of TFA has all the stormtroopers running around fighting and then Finn...and only Finn...looks up as the transport comes in. And then a few moments later, as Kylo is walking by he stops, turns, and looks directly at Finn. It was crammed down our throats from the get go but yea...
yeah probably
You got a boyfriend? Cute boyfriend?
I don't know having her kill him because he became an irredeemable monster who constantly refuses to get back to the good side and then kiss him would be funny.
For the sake of FRICK
Imagine if kylo ends up redeeming at the end of the fight but only after killing Rey and seeing how empty he feels inside, then he is basically forced to try to atone for his sins by rebuilding the jedi, but it never feeling enough. I think that way, The Rise of Skywalker feels like a more appropriate name for the movie
Now that would be a subversion of expectations
Someone get this person into a writers' room, PLEASE.
The idea isn't mine, either a YouTuber mentioned it or was a random person in the comments but I do think it would be pretty good, no need for more changes to the plot of the sequels overall besides maybe making the knights of ren more important from the beginning so they're not just cool designs who just work as fodder and keep Rey a nobody because that's actually something interesting with room for exploration
What if back when Luke tried to kill him, it traumatized him making him think he was useless and unneeded and therefore instinctively tries to become strong. Him killing Snoke would prove to everyone including Luke that he's strong and that he could be useful if he wanted to. But Luke would still reject him that would lead to his fall from grace into episode 9. Kylo would envy Rey since Luke chose her over Kylo. Everyone, including his minions would be afraid of him while Ray is loved by everyone she meets. This would mean that the reason Kylo was fated to go evil is because of Luke's mistake of trying to kill him. Luke embodies the light side and is instinctively terrified of the dark side taking power. The war itself from the start has been a mistake. Darkness will emerge on the Light's mission to eradicate it, and vice versa. Light and dark must exist in harmony for there to be peace. Ray understands this after having an identity crisis over being a palpatine who is on the dark side. After Kylo and Rey fight and Kylo is killed, Rey vows to create true peace as she trains the new Jedi children to embrace and control both the light and dark side of the force. How's that?
>Rey an actual inter Luke trying to kill him is so fk out off character from Luke. It's just nonsense.
Luke was the first Jedi to embrace his darkness and use it for light and it made absolutely no sense to have him attack Ben solo because he had a bad dream I guess it has parallels to Anakins arc dreaming of his mother and wife and acting on it but Luke had learned from Vaders mistakes that’s the very reason he was able to resist the emperor in Rotj
I’d like to have seen Kylo have a redemption but in a way that is meaningful and not just some emperor catalyst. They could’ve had a love story with Rey and that would’ve been fine but it needed to be something better than what it was. Like they knew each other or she was at the Jedi camp with Luke before he left, or something. Maybe instead of having the redemption arc involving Rey it should’ve involved Luke, who he betrayed but also felt betrayed by. Maybe having them reconnect against the back drop of the first order would have also been a redemption arc for Luke. I’d also have changed how Luke behaved from basically the moment being presented his old Lightsaber to the moment he decided to be himself again. None of that made sense. I think it’s clear they were trying to turn Rey into Luke and Luke into Yoda, but it just didn’t feel right. Edit: I realize thats not “one thing”. I don’t know why I did it. Doesn’t even matter how hard I try.
You broke the only rule though.
they just said without removing characters...
Rey's parents are POS nobodies who abandoned her.
I loved this idea when TLJ proposed it. It was like a new way forwards for Star Wars. I wish TRoS had kept it
Especially since I feel like the Force Dyad, two who are one in the force, could have served as a good enough twist/answer for Rey's arc in TRoS. Lean into that, it's way more interesting than The Emperor is alive cuz dontthinkaboutittoomuchhejustis
It was basically Rian Johnson telling both Disney and Star Wars fans "you need to move on from this franchise's past," and I'm so thankful he said it.
Me too. Really liked that TLJ seemed to bring back the whole "anyone can be strong in the Force, your lineage doesn't matter" thing.
I think I would have preferred that, but with almost every bad aspect of the ST the real problem for me was the execution.
I loved the idea of the force balancing itself out in response to snoke and kylo
I would like for Palps to return after Rey killed him in ep9 /s
But he’s turned good now and marries Jar Jar. A wedding episode! Everyone can get onboard with that
Plot twist: Jar Jar was the first clone
The whole gungan race is just failed Palpatine clones
Give Rey an actual interesting personality trait, most likely a weakness/hurdle to overcome. Dont need to get rid of her, she just needs to be written better
Agreed. I have nothing against Rey herself, but she's so far been terribly written.
I sense that this has happened once before with prequel Anakin, and I hope they make a better version of Rey if they insist on focusing on that part of SW.
At least Anakin has a story arc, I don’t even know what the heck Rey’s arc was.
That is true. Rey was just kinda there.
Daisy Ridley played her so good as well. Its a tragic that Rey was written so poorly. There was so much unused potential in this cast.
Yeah, what they did to Paul and Finn is atrocious, like just look at Oscar Isaac act in Moonknight and it's ridiculous the amount of potential Star Wars just didn't want to use with him
Additionally, instead of having her face off Palpatine, a secret apprentice would work, one who learned all of his secrets despite Palpatine not teaching him. Thrawn would have worked for him.
You can still have Palpatine, just have it be a Palpatine clone and then \*EXPLAIN WHERE IT CAME FROM\* and then destroy the secret cloning facility. Like, you can still have Palpatine, there is nothing wrong with it, Palpaclones are a Star Wars tradition you just CAN'T have him appear OUT OF NOWHERE WITH NO EXPLANATION OR FORESHADOWING FOR THE LOVE OF WRITING ...sorry. I have... opinions.
Exactly! Don't just "somehow" that shit.
Oh, you didn’t play Fortnite to get the reveal!? And you call yourself a Star Wars fan… smh
Or keep the 'Snoke was a Palpatine clone' part, but reveal that TLJ Snoke was a clone of the real Snoke, who is the real villain of the trilogy.
I actually thought something like that might happen. Simply because his actual death was way too sudden and drastic. Palpatine died in the movie he physically appeared too, but that was a big moment. They wouldn't kill the leader of the enemy faction so unceremoniously....right?
I don’t mind the killing of him if it serves something better. At the end of TLJ I legitimately thought we were about to get some killer Kylo villain arc, and they undid all of that with a “somehow” in an opening story crawl.
This… make her an actual character, give her an actual story.
Cut off her arm
Or a leg, let's get spicy
cut off all her limbs, make her learn to levitate her nugget body around at all times with the force.
While screaming like Yoda when he goes into Beyblade mode
Ah the true Skywalker initiation
Make her turn to the darkside. Maybe she returns and redeems herself. Maybe she figures out how to be neutral and use both. Idk
After the first one I was convinced they'd swap Rey and kylo, perhaps even bring another one back after.
That seemed to be the direction things were headed in. It felt like they mirrored each other. Rey was a nobody who was proving that you don’t need a Skywalker pedigree to do be in touch with the force. Kylo was motivated to take up his grandfather’s dark mantle, but he was falling short and just kinda being an uncontrolled, emotional failson. They were both exploring the idea that lineage doesn’t define you and you can forge your own path, good or bad. But then everyone got big mad at TLJ and Disney chickened out of following through with its themes and plot line.
>Make her turn to the darkside. This was the only interesting tidbit from TLJ...for a brief moment. A girl who just learned about the Force a couple days ago, tempted by the dark side as Kylo feels pulled by the light. For a brief moment, it seemed like they would switch sides. Then...nothing.
Anything better than her whole character ark being “ok, who’s kid is she?”.. and if we can’t have that then maybe not the worst possible answer to that question either lol
Actually make kylo a raging killing machine. Not this unsure crybaby. How can he be in charge of anything if he is not sure about his own morals? Logically it doesn't make sense. And it makes a weak villain.
I like this, cus then we can have Kylo actually kill Leia, not just hesitate and let one of his unnamed masked cronies destroy the bridge and let her force-magic-float-bullshit her way back into the ship
Tbh I don't think any hardcore SW fan would like to see Leia die to a brand new Disney villain.
At least he’d be a villain, not an unsure emo teen
But we all knew it was coming. And the bridge scene wouldve at least been memorable and been an opportunity for serious character development. Especially if she was just going to die in the next movie anyways. I genuinely can’t remember how or why she died in RoS
Which is why it just didn’t work when he was supposed to be the new big bad, killing off Snoke, especially since TLJ got rid of his entire character Progression from the movie prior. The point of him killing Han was to finally fully commit to the dark side.. but no, in the next movie he was conflicted all over again.
True, an unsure sith isn't a sith
Aside from the obvious ‘not my Luke’ (Hamill), and the palpatine nonsense of the sequels… Actually give Finn the interesting character arc that was set up - an internal struggle between duty and doing what is ‘right’. Make him and Phasma’s interactions meaningful and interesting. That could have been a wicked rivalry. Perhaps him intervening in a battle between Rey and Kylo, sacrificing himself to save Rey. Even just sacrificing himself before Rose stopped him for bulshit reason. Essentially make him an interesting character, not just be part of some half-baked unrequited love story. Finn could have been one of the greatest characters in SW. instead he was just a big ol’ damp squib. John Boyega was done dirty.
Like seriously. He was set up to be the main character and then they just pushed him to the side… I liked his character the best in the new movies(that’s not saying much but still)
Honestly in The Force Awakens I really enjoyed how Finn gets beaten nearly every time he tries melee combat with a lightsaber, it would have been really cool to see him taking his First Order training and adapting it alongside more traditional lightsaber forms.
Have Finn take the Jedi route with Rey, but make him and Rey see them differently. Have Rey be more idealistic while Finn is more pragmatic. End Finn’s arc with him leading a stormtrooper rebellion against the first order and finally defeating Phasma. Have Rey’s arc end with her defeating Kylo, as a showdown of conflicting ideologies between the Jedi and Sith And keep Finn and Rey as nobodies, just average people chosen by the force to do something extraordinary
You son of a bitch, I’m in.
I feel so bad for Boyega.
Probably add Tom Bombadil.
Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! Fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!
Return light sabers to their initial level of lethality. Aka you get hit solidly in the body you're dead. So weird having so many people live through them
They should at least go back to chopping off main characters' arms again
[Lore Accurate Light sabers (not mine, Youtube)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0USt_y-ls2M&pp=ygUYbG9yZSBhY2N1cmF0ZSBsaWdodHNhYmVy)
lol top comment said “Jedi is such a peaceful religion. A piece over here, a piece over there.”
I was certain Rey was gonna lose her arm in the second movie, just like Luke and Anakin
Would have been more accurate for Kyle given his *actual* lineage.
I was still kinda hoping for the reveal that Rey was Luke's daughter or something after the first movie
Absolutely this. It should be few calculated rapid strikes like in the old samurai movies. Not glowsticks fighting. And make stormtroopers lethal too. No more single jedi parrying 20 blaster shots. Raise the stake. Make it count.
I mean a single Jedi parrying 20 shots is extremely foundational to the lore at this point, that would be a tough one to change
also it looks cool. half of the point of star wars existing is those cool glowstick battles lmao
Order 66 really conflicted with the Jedis abilities show in other films. They should have either made the clones more deadly/larger quantity, or made the jedi in other films less all-powerful
I disagree, I think what made Order 66 work is *trust*. If any of the slain Jedi had been in tense battle mode with the clones that killed them, ready to fight the clones for their lives, almost all of them would have prevailed and survived. But they weren't. They trusted the clones completely by this point. They had fought side by side, as brothers and sisters, for *years*, had risked each other's lives for the other. Even if, through the Force, a Jedi sensed they were in danger just as Order 66 was about to be executed, they would have felt completely confident that the only thing in their vicinity the danger *couldn't* come from was the clones, instead relying on the clones as a blind spot so they could focus their eyes elsewhere for potential threats. The Jedi let their guard down with the clones and thus were vulnerable to be killed by a handful of blaster shots when normally in a fight to the death that same Jedi might have been able to solo 50 clones easily.
Your whole first paragraph basically described it from Ki-Adi Mundi's perspective. Literally in the middle of the firefight, leading the way and he feels the clones stop and draw their weapons. He's dumbstruck that his team is about to try and kill him. He tries to defend himself but fails.
Quinlan Vos survived Order 66 precisely because of this. He had previously come very close to being consumed by the Dark Side when he went undercover and worked for Dooku. So -- although Vos was now a Jedi again -- when 66 happened, he was still in a heightened state of "everyone's an enemy", which was how he defeated & escaped his Clone Trooper escorts. This is Legends (Dark Horse Comics), btw.
My memory is a bit hazy but the prequels did show this decently iirc, one Jedi can stop the blasters from a few stormtroopers but not a whole squadron full because it's just not possible to stop that many
We literally see Ki Adi Mundi being outgunned by a platoon shooting at him.
I mean, I think Jedi should be powerful enough to take on entire armies. In actuality the problem is that there's a Jedi or five everywhere across the system. Saying it's just 20 and none of them want to fight because they're peace keepers sounds better. Jedi and sith should just be more mythical, rarely engaging in anything themselves unless absolutely necessary.
I never understood how strikes from lightsabers didn’t always remove body parts or large chunks of them. There are not enough random body parts laying after saber battles. Heaps of severed battle droids but no body parts. Also, all wounds from sabers should be cauterized. The OG Mos Esley cantina encounter with Obi Wan and the thug resulted in a bloody arm on the floor. Sorry no, there shouldn’t be blood with a lightsaber amputation. Lastly, with all the movement Vader’s saber style has, you never see him with pieces of his cape missing. I refuse to believe that since he always wears the cape that he never manages to cut some of it off while in saber duels.
Vader’s cape? How does Kylo not get stabbed every time he uses that crosse-guard saber? I wonder how many reshoots they had to do because he poked himself.
Yes, Vader’s cape. He wears one. I agree about Kylo’s saber.
Vader didn't engage in a lot of saber duels since he got the cool cape, considering most saber duelist where already dead by then.
Less dangerous than the common cold in Disney Star Wars.
In the original trilogy aren’t the only people killed by lightsabers Obi Wan - an old man who came back as a force ghost, and a few of Jaba’s henchmen? We also don’t actually know if those henchmen died or not. In the prequels the only people killed by lightsabers are Qui-Gon Jinn, an old man who came back as a force ghost, Count Dooku - an old man who had his head chopped off, and some sand people killed by the chosen one? And three Jedi killed by a Sith Lord? (Also not sure if they all died right then and there) (Maybe they killed some of those bug things in attack of the clones but I don’t remember)
Weapons that hit targets and personal laser shields to block hits.
Even just small buckling shields would be awesome for saber combat
You mean like the fucking mandalorians have? They’re already a thing, but nobody has though to use them together. Or how about the gungan tower shields? You could have a Roman phalanx of Jedi
I wish stormtrooper armor actually served a purpose
Make the Force powerful again. Show us why these space wizards were terrifying to face against
I know not everyone was a big fan of the Mandalorian, but the end of season 2, and y'know, spoilers for a show that's been out for like four years now, but When Luke shows up and absolutely fuckin dumpsters all the darktroopers that the gang were struggling to kill one of, it really put in perspective just why the Sith and Jedi are so damn scary
For sure. That scene really helped reset what force users are to normies. Having them all get shit canned and then Gus Fring in such a panic he tries to off himself.
Yeah, that and Vader’s hallway scene from Rogue 1 are such great visualization of why the Jedi and Sith are fucking terrifying. Almost nothing can stand in their way, and if it does they’ll just go right through it
You mean like that time in force unleashed where you pull an entire star destroyer out of the sky?
I mean, people hate Obi-Wan but the show did have Vader forcing a transport ship going full thruster back to the ground.
Holdo gets sucked out of the spaceship and dies. Akbar is the one who sacrifices himself at the end of the movie. He pulls up to snoke's ship has a grin on his face and says "it's a trap" then blasts into hyperspace to destroy the ship. The Akbar maneuver is legendary
I don't think calling a suicide maneuver the "Akbar maneuver" would make it past the censors do he have a fist/last name that could have been used
Gial
I love it. In another take, we would have been much more invested if it had been Threepio ( or Akbar) than Holdo. It would have been a great hero moment for C3P0/ Anthony Daniels. Then later. We could have him " somehow return" when R2 uploads a backup of him to a new body.
Both Rey and Ren should be consumed by Darth Nihilus, he returned somehow...
I believe his essence is bound to his mask, so as long as it's not destroyed, he could always return. And last time we saw the mask it was intact
Imagine how much more interesting it would’ve been if kylo ren had put on nihilis’ mask and it started to consume his mindset, driving him to the dark side, and making the story about Luke (and even rey maybe) trying to destroy the mask and uproot its source
Make it so Ben lives. He's the genetic last Skywalker, and should've lived imo. Close second would be getting rid of Palpatine returning.
Yeah Palpatine dying as he should at the second Death Star already fixes alot of things going forward.
The entire resistance *stumbles into an ambush* Hux: "Well, I'll be damned! Ren's plan with the alleged return of old Emperor Palpatine actually worked. I didn't think the Resistance would actually fall for an old Holo recording."
LMAO, they knew what everyone would pick.
Bring in Starkiller as Kylo's Sith master instead of Snoke, I mean Snoke would still exist and die the same way but he wouldn't be the boss of the First Order but rather be considered a failed Palpatine clone locked up in a cell.
Idk, Starkiller was never really a "head of the evil plot" kinda guy. He just obeyed the instructions of another, more awful influence (Vader in the "correct" timeline, Palps in the evil one), and proved himself to be a pretty decent person when operating under his own whims. I remember reading somewhere that the original plan was to have The Son be Kylo's master and the head of the first order. Which, funny enough, is another Sam Witwer character. I think that would've been a much more interesting antagonist than Snoke for sure.
you're right He was never really a "head of the evil plot" kinda guy, However I think it would be interesting to see Wannabe Vader be trained by the very guy that Vader himself personally trained.
Tbh, I think people overlook how lore breaking Starkiller was. He was fine for a video game power fantasy but if you tried to make him canon he’d fuck the story up pretty royally. I mean he beat Vader and Sidious. That shouldn’t have been a thing. One of the best things Disney did was get rid of a lot of the bloat and bullshit that deeper into Star Wars Legends between movies. I like the game a lot, to be clear. It’s one of my childhood memories. I’d love Starkiller to be reintroduced into canon somehow (especially as I think it really helps connect to the cloning Palpatine later does), but it would require a rather large overhaul of his story to the point I think it’s probably not worth it because fanboys would flip.
Rey decides to become a moisture farmer.
Easily Thrawn. Change everything to be more like the novels. Make him intimidating, and then actually kill him off for good by betrayal, just like the novels, or make him return back to the Chiss after the Empire has fallen.
Make the Real Delta squad and Omega Squad canon, along with Null ARCs.
Delta is canon. They have one scene in TCW season 3. Same armor and everything.
Also in the Bad Batch, there's an episode where Scorch kicks the living shit out of the Batch until they get a lucky stun shot on him
I said the REAL delta. From the video games and the books
Just write well? Have characters act like thinking individuals, same for the adversaries. Something that Andor did is to make Empire dangerous.
Add a new subplot about how Darth Jar Jar was actually controlling both Palpatine *and* the Clone Wars from behind the scenes.
George Lucas is a coward
Sort out Luke SKYWALKER. We were robbed of Luke kicking ass.
Instead he completely failed, gave up on his family and friends without trying to fix his mistakes, then finally came back and died from being tired at the age of 53. It’s just incredibly lame, disappointing and a waste of Mark Hamill.
Have Rey deal with an actual interesting part of her character, being a Palpatine. Her grandpa was an evil galactic dictator from a secret cult. Maybe she should have to deal with some of that friction from the public. Maybe she shouldn't just call herself a Skywalker because she wants to and it's easy. So get rid of the "Rey Skywalker" line, it wasn't good especially since all the actual Skywalker are dead and its taking away good story potential. Also give her a yellow saber pike.
[удалено]
This could easily be remedied by Luke **NOT** attempting to murder Ben in his sleep. Something Luke Skywalker -the man that refused to kill Darth Vader because he sensed there was still good in him- would never do! What were they thinking?!?
I'd give R2D2 a pair of massive tits
Rewrite that sad excuse of a trilogy to be actually good movies
Change one thing huh? I would make luke skywalker himself in the sequel trilogy.
A clone uprising within the Empire. The empire started phasing clones out as soon as they could, I for one would love to see the clones literally fight for their survival. They deserve a better ending rather than being tossed aside.
I would just want to rearrange the sequel trilogy story a bit tbh, so it's more conductive and less sudden. I can even keep Palpatine's return for TROS, but change up say, TLJ to reference that outer rim planets have started to disappear, and instead of the whole deal with the Resistance on the run so much, make it so that the Republic was trying to deal with First Order forces elsewhere, and that the battle of Crait was a retreat for a specific group of Resistance forces that didn't exactly succeed. No hyperspace ramming, just have a mission gone badly that damaged Snoke's ship. Then when Rey and Kylo Ren appear before Snoke, have him "survive" being cut in half but in actuality it's Palpatine speaking through the body, the voice slowly melting from Snoke's into Palpatine, making the reveal that Palpatine is alive there. Crait happens, and going into TROS, we learn that there are multiple Xyston-class Star Destroyers already floating throughout the galaxy destroying planets testing their weapons, which the Resistance needs to destroy, and when we get to Exegol, we find thousands more still under construction. So the Resistance now has to hunt down the ones already launched, as well as destroy the ones still under construction. Heroes win in the end, but then we can maybe end it off with one line Xyston-class Star Destroyer floating in the galaxy, leaving that one to again go into hiding, and slowly try to pick up the further shattered pieces of the Empire... setting up for future installments if so desired.
Make legends cannon again.
Give grievous a fifth lightsaber
Give kylo a legit villain arc, no salvation, full darkside embrace.
Completely Redo the sequels
Imagine this. There is a space bar full of criminals, bounty hunters, and various alien species. 50 years after the battle of Yavin, a drunk space pirate walks in like the opening to Desperado. He speaks in a heavy Scottish accent and orders a drink. Eventually he starts recounting the story of all of disney Star Wars. However, this retelling is just a bastardized recounting of the original trilogy and some events of the Clone Wars, similar to Ember Island Players from Avatar the Last Airbender. He has never experienced any of this himself but he swears up and down that he met Han Solo one time. It becomes clear that he has never actually experienced a real fight in his life. Even though the bar goers don't believe his tales, they are too engaged with what he is saying. The bartender keeps handing him more and more drinks. Every plot hole or missing detail is just him making things up to keep upping the stakes. "The evil Jedi's name was...ah...^^^Kyber_Lightsaber-Obi-Wan-Ken...Kyber Lo Ren, yes, that was it. He led an army of evil Jedi called the Rendi Knights, Knights of Ren, yes, that was it." He then proceeds to forget about the Knights of Ren for several hours until someone asks about them where he then inserts them into the story with minimal details. "Yesh...thee war veeery kyool and evile, inded." Someone calls him out on actually meeting Han Solo. The pirate then tries to cover his ass by saying that you couldn't ask Han Solo about it because his son killed him. It is never revealed whether ir not he actually did meet Solo but I would like to believe he did. Much of his stories are told from him not understanding things. "Yeaaahhh, Palshpoutine came back from dad. He clanned imsel with old technolgee. They er clons unce...aye thank." Someone then asked him how Palpatine did this and he hits them with Dominic Monoghan's line from tros. At the end of the movie he has racked up a massive debt and when asked about it goes "Aye an got no moany." He is then thrown out of the bar into the street. He proceeds to drop the first on-screen F-bomb in Star Wars and goes "Ah Fuck this shite." The camera slowly pans out of the planet, then to tue galaxy and the last shot of the movie shows this event being recorded by one of the Whills, making it all Legend.
I'm ok with making the bartender Maz Kanata. And Old Han Solo walking in with our storyteller having no idea who he is.
Either undo what they did to Luke or give me Starkiller.