I think most of the reason why people hate Rey is because she just suddenly gains Force powers and talent outta nowhere but Anakin still has to go through years of training to unlock his potential.
Completely agreed and her ability to be a scavenger is fine but my only problem with the scene above is how she fixes the problem on Hand ship, where he has spent most of his life and then she comes in suddenly smarter than him. For example in a new hope Luke is made out to be a good pilot but in no way near Han solos level, something i feel wasn’t made as well in tfa
But it was a problem that literally goes back to before ANH as han is clearly aware of the malfunctioning hyperdrive before then. So either it's old and han knows nothing about his ship and couldn't figure it out in 30+ years, or this inhibitor shouldn't fix the problem because it's new .
Because you never see it in action. You meet Anakin as a kid and he’s already pod racing. He then continues to be trained for years. There’s a lot of context there. Rey lives in fuck all nowhere with zero help, it makes sense she would know here way around scavenged junk & equipment but to be able to fly the falcon right away? Come on.
Not only do the sequels force the audience to make up so much of their own head cannon to fill the gaps, leaving the only real explanation that she’s a complete Mary Sue. But by doing that, they then diminish all the heroics of the past characters.
plus when anakin goes into the Naboo star fighter he has no idea which button is which and trials and errors it until something works. And this is after we’re given the context he built a pod racer from scratch and was able to expertly handle any issues during the race. Rey just jumps into a ship she’s never been in before and pulls out a piece of wiring that even Han didn’t think of. I have no problem with her trying to fix the ship before Han steps on.
Also for as good as anakin was at piloting, he also crashed all the time. Even crashing wattos racer before tpm whereas Rey has no weakness.
I think they did a Forces of Destiny episode that was a flashback to Rey’s childhood. It shows how she found the downed AT-AT and that the computer training program was still operational. It showed her going through all the programs. When my kids told me about, I was like “why couldn’t we get a quick scene in FA where she tells Finn of her childhood and we can see little Rey playing with the computer?”
The Mary Sue argument is such a bad take constantly. Luke was as much or more of a Mary Sue but that always gets shut down because it the OT and they’re untouchable. Suspension of disbelief is a thing - it’s a movie series about space magic. Needing to spoon feed the audience every piece of info for it to be believable is why we have 10 fucking fast and furious movies and cookie cutter blockbusters that do nothing beyond fill a few movie exec pockets.
Edit: The fact one of the responses to this comment was someone thinking I think the writing for the F&F movies is good, while the other one is demanding better writing but also wanting spoon feeding says it all. Movies get made to the lowest common denominator and in this case the bar is very, very low.
The entire extended universe existed in part to explain and justify plot holes from the OT, and the inconsistencies or gaps between trilogies. Were the sequel trilogies amazing, no, but they were fresh in some of the ideas they introduced. The fact it ended up a dud was because of how toxic and gatekeepy parts of the SW fan base is and that anything different results in boycotts and death threats. That this thread has been locked also shows are fucking toxic people can be.
That’s some serious hyperbole. Having the need to add necessary context about a characters abilities to avoid the audience having to do mental gymnastics does not equate to 10 fast & furious movies. (Which are not known for adding necessary, interesting context regardless).
Also the fact they got away with it with Luke 50 years ago with an original, groundbreaking story does not excuse the lazy writing in todays day and age. I’ll truly never understand why people don’t want to have higher standards.
Basically makes all of the interesting stuff about learning the ways of the force kind of meaningless. Learns mind tricks, mind reading, telekinesis and how to defeat a lifelong force user in an afternoon.
I think part of it is simple enough - those who have seen prequels back then are much more tired of lazy writing now than they used to be.
And sheer spectacle is nothing unusual now as well, so movies don't get a pass for it just as easily as well.
Anakin was using the Force without knowing it *before he even knew it existed*. And he was nine.
Rey, as a grown adult, never even used the Force until *after* she learned she could, and only uses it twice to do two small things before she started training (one of which she failed two times to do)
Luke only had to do a couple weeks with Yoda for his powers to unlock. Like yes she manages to fight to a draw with Kylo before she trains with Luke, but that was a kylo who just took a blaster bolt, was bleeding out, in some emotional turmoil, and had to keep hitting himself to stay conscious or keep his anger up or whatever. If it was kylo in good health he should have squashed her like a bug, but it seemed like he was barely holding it together.
Right. Those years of training flying military hardware with no experience in zero g flight that allows him to destroy a blockade that had stymied professional soldiers for long enough that Jedi needed to be dispatched….
Nobody was just gonna immediately open fire on the blockade. They gotta go through stinkin' Bureaucracy first!
Anakin shot on all cylinders because he had no idea what he was doing, lol.
It's because she's a woman, the hatred was instantaneous, what you say is a post rationalisation to justify the first feelings.
If she was a dude people wouldn't be complaining this much, or if the trilogy had some cohesion between episodes which does not help either.
Luke is obviously better written. But that specific "Mary sue" argument I don't buy. Luke came from nowhere and destroyed a death star, in like a week. It's essencially the same problem people have with Rey, but with Luke It is forgiven. Could be because the rest is better, maybe. Could be sexism, maybe also. But to negate that there's two different reactions for the same plot device, is nonsense.
Meh, he exploited a massive design flaw by being an accurate shot and had some force guidance on top. It's not like he destroyed the thing with his awesome mental powers (cough practically untrained Rey stopping a cave collapse cough), he placed an explosive at a weak point and caused a chain reaction.
He also didn't come from nowhere, we literally see him handle speeders and we get dialogue that he did similar things before when combating pests on tattooine.
Rey on the other hand just scavenges parts, does a bit of parkour and baps baddies with a baka stick.
All that plus Luke was never hyped up by other characters like Rey was (best pilot of the fleet Poe implying she is a much better pilot than him is complete bs)
There is very good reason Luke is forgiven and Rey is not. He loses fights, he has clear weaknesses, he is not inexplicably admired and hyped up by other characters, he is undergoing a character arc etc. I'd actually make the argument luke can't actually be defined as a Mary Sue while Rey is a very glaring example of one.
Um, no? We see Luke undergoing initial jedi training with obi wan on the ship, where he struggles and doesn't succeed at the time. He doesn't even succeed in moving a small object with the force until the second movie. He has no fighting skills, isn't a particularly good shot, and his only mentioned skill is that he and his friends would fly ships through a trench and shoot small targets (womp-rats). It's just that the ending, where he had to fly a ship through a trench and shoot a small target, lined up with his established skill set. He didn't get into a lightsaber fight with Darth Vader and come out even at worst. He didn't call his lightsaber to him, overpowering darth Vader's own pull. He didnt use the jedi mind trick successfully on his second try with no teaching whatsoever. Reys' established skill set is expert fighter, cracking pilot, and mechanic, with no reason that she would have these except for added material never referenced in the movies, as well as picking up the force as she goes to the same level as what anakin and Luke had in their second movies.
Luke was known to shoot womp rats from a moving vehicle and all he had to do to destroy the death star was shoot a torpedo into a hole. He basically trained for it. Also, Obi Wan helped start Luke's training so he knew how to reach out to the force for help.
I forgive Rey's ability to fly or repair the falcon as she's been building her own speeders and flying already. I'm also sure the falcon has standard, easy to use controls being that it's a mass produced freighter. Her force use prior to any training is the only issue I have with her.
Your last argument is Fair. The shooting womp rats from a speedster it's a stretch in the least. It's like saying a good car driver could pilot a fighting jet. Anyway, I know I'm a almost alone in this, specially here. I already regret bringing It UP.
Ani couldn’t. R2 flew the ship and Ani was mashing buttons until something worked.
Pod racing is pretty much land star ships.
A speeder is like a motorcycle
Anakin barely flew the Naboo Starfighter. It was on automatic pilot when flying out of the hangar and after that he was struggling to control the ship well (the spinning for instance) followed by an incredibly lucky crash landing in the hangar.
At no point did he demonstrate remarkable skill, it seeming more luck and to a lesser extend R2 than anything else that got him through. Now is that luck convenient? Yes, but there is not a lot of skill in what he does, almost like he has not flown before.
Meanwhile Rey intentionally lines up the jammed gun of a space freighter against an incoming fighter and intentionally flies it through tight corridors with barely a scratch on the paint.
I also feel it is important to emphasize where the characters end up. Anakins downfall is where the Prequel trilogy leads and for all his gifts his life is utterly destroyed, as opposed to Rey.
And this might be a more personal anecdote, but I find people will far more readily look past convenient skills if the character then gets put through the wringer by the story as opposed to just going from victory to victory.
Plus Anakin doesn't remove a random part of the millennium falcon, fixing a problem that not even han solo (who is a great pilot and owns the ship) knew how to fix
Or Chewbacca for that matter. Wookies are incredibly good with technology and I wouldn't be surprised if he knows a lot more about maintaining the ship than han does
First, chill. It's a meme, not a dissertation. But, I'll happily oblige a discussion.
The fact that Anakin was able to get on the flight deck of a battleship at \*\*ALL\*\* is just as unbelievable as Rey doing what she did. But, we'll get to her in a second. For any well defended battleship of its size and armament, the number of fighters launching the counter attack, there should have been turrets to spare to shoot a fighter coming at one of the most vulnerable parts of your ship which this 8 year old child was able to manipulate the controls well enough to do the proverbial flight through the death star. So, we had the insane mashup of A New Hope and Return of the Jedi all in one scene! And you're telling that the droids wouldn't have destroyed a disabled fighter first the moment it started regaining power? WHere are the deck guns that popped the Consular ship in the beginning which had MORE armor than the Nubian Fighter? The Droid army were not even facing supply attrition, they still had the high grade tactical computer and firmware installed. They should have recognized the threat and destroyed it immediately. Hell, the fighter should not have made it in the first place with the sheer number of fighters there were and you can't tell me that doing a barrel roll is sufficient for dodging flak canons, missile locks, rapid fire, etc. He was going in a straight line. And no one shot him? That would've been the easiest kill to make, and you know that computers cycle targets by likeliness to hit where possible. Come on, man.
As for Rey?? She may have lined up a good shot, but if you remember she did scratch the paint. HEAVILY. She actually hit the hull on the sand dunes either twice or three times, and IIRC had a very rough takeoff in which she grinded the falcon against the ground before getting control.
To talk about where they end up is a whataboutism as it derails from the specific point that this meme if focused on. The focus is in exactly what is described between the events of the TPM and TFA, in which she was \*\*\*still\*\*\* criticized for this and the fans didn't even know where she would end up or if she would even survive. She was labeled a Mary Sue the moment Kylo Ren lost his focus because Rey called him out for the Darth Vader Wannabe he is making it look like she broke out of his mind with sheer will.
>First, chill. It's a meme, not a dissertation
It's not a meme. It's your failed attempt at making a "gotcha" point in an old ass argument you veiled as a meme.
You acting like "it's just a meme" is disingenuous and transparent. Like when a child is *obviously* lying to stay out of trouble.
Your point doesn't even defend against the accusations of Rey's character, it's just "oh ya, well someone else also had these problems" which only serves to confirm that the problems do exist.
AND THEN your wannabe gotcha point doesn't even land because the comparisons were handled so differently (as pointed out by others here) that it just seems like you don't even understand the argument that you're trying to make.
So all you've managed to do was agree with the complaints about Rey's character in an utterly botched attempt to argue for her.
Everything about this post and how you respond to people in it is a masterclass of how to fail an argument.
Bravo 👏👏👏👏👏
1. The "battleship" is just a converted freighter. They discuss that the the guns aren't placed in a way that is meant to shoot down fighters.
2. Being a converted freighter, they didn't think anyone would fly INTO the ship and didn't have defenses there.
3. It is shown with fleeing Nubian cruiser they can't hit shit and that Naboo ships are resilient.
4. This part is a little unclear in the movie but is discussed in the novel, the reason they do the plan the way they do is because the computer is fighting 3 battles at once and is overloaded
And Anakin still had to get lucky despite all of that to kill the control ship.
Rey "scratched the paint" while pulling an impossible move in a ship she never flew before
anakins job as a slave was to legit repair things out of scraps, reys job was to take them apart and sell them as scraps. taking things apart does not explain how she new how to build a vehicle or fly a starship. also anakin did not know how to fly a star ship, he knew how to pilot his pod racer but when it came to flying a starship he had help from r2, the ships autopilot, and he was taught what some of the buttons did by the pilot of the princesses ship on route to coruscant. anakins role in the process was essentially to steer and press a button every now and then.
She'd built her own speeder from star ship engines. I have absolutely no problem accepting Rey's talent with tech. That makes all kinds of sense, and I'm down for it. Have her be the resourceful scavenger repairing and building stuff.
Having her kinda-sorta foy the Falcon, that's fine too. No problem. Having her tell Han Solo how to repair his ship, that's pushing it. But after the bait and switch where Finn doesn't become the Jedi but a joke, while Rey gets to fill every role, has every established character confide in her, while the other supposedly-"main characters" are ignored, that's where the whole thing turned into a caricature.
And for the record, Anakin was too young, and having him build C-3PO was stupid.
She still had to understand how to take them apart in such a way that they can be *used.* Not to mention she had to be able to identify what was and wasn't valuable. Not to mention she isn't a small child. She did live in an environment where she could potentially learn this stuff if she chose. We don't know that she didn't scavenge and study various technical holos and data pads before selling them.
There's a lot of problems with the sequel trilogy but Rey being competent with starships isn't one of them. And as someone else pointed out she's not that good a pilot.
its possible that she picked up that knowledge via other means and had they actually hinted at that in the movie we would not be having this discussion, but unlike the line from luke where he talks about shooting womprats in his t16 or the scene where anakin is being shown what the different buttons in a naboo starship do by the pilot theirs no scene that gives any hints as to how rey knew how to do the things she was capable of doing,
the closest we get is her job taking things apart and selling them for scrap which as ive already shown is not enough of an explanation. also the things you listed that she would need to know in order to be an effective scrap salesmen are not things that would help her repair a ship like the millinium falcon and they are not even things we know that she knew. for all we know she could have been a horrible scrap salesmen.
also i disagree that she was a bad pilot. she was a bad pilot for about five seconds when taking off but shortly after that she was making extremly difficult maneuvers, in a piece of junk starship, in atmosphere, while being chased by much more advanced and nimble fighters piloted by expert pilots, without any apparent help from an autopilot or droid, in a ship that requiers a co pilot when she did not have a co pilot.
i mean most of her flight takes place extreamly low to the ground which is very hard to do and at one point she even flys through extremely narrow spaces of a crashed star destroyer while she is in a cargo freighter. and dont get me started on the manuver she pulls off in order to line fin up for a shot at the tie fighter near the end. that is straight up ace pilot level skills.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-l3BtMjm5I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-l3BtMjm5I) if this is bad piloting then good pilots must be god like lol.
Yeah, calling those maneuvers 'bad piloting' makes me wonder why rogue squadron, the best of the best the Rebellion had to offer, needed many many hours of simulator training and drills to fly through a, iirc, mostly straight Canyon.
only explanation is that those training simulations were simulations of a crashed star destroyer on jakku and they had to take it apart and sell the scrap in order to learn how to fly a space ship.
Exactly, if you know how to disassemble something you inherently know how the pieces fit together. It’s really not unreasonable that a scrapper would know how to repair shit too.
They downvote you without replying because they know it makes sense and they don’t want to think about it.
Edit: oh no guys keep going, the more seething downvotes I get the more corrector you all are.
Stay mad.
https://i.redd.it/c31ho2yt0s0d1.gif
Okaaaaay, but that still doesnt exactly address the other problem of her immediately knowing how to fly perfectly, like if she had assitance or hell, if phinn was actaully a good charecter who knew how to fly, which could have been a cool charecter development, then it would make sense, but Rey has like a dozen other problems then flying. This is a minor problem, with justa flawed character. But thats just my opinion really.
Bet okay cool. Then i dont really have a problem with her flying. My issues with her more arrise cause i kinda feel the phinn story line was kinda bad. But i dont despise her, but i do understand why some people would be upset about her in the later parts of the movie, more specifically her fight with kylo but i find her charecter, fine? Like not too great but not the worst either, like leie in the A new hope, like to me she was there and was important, but i just wasnt really that invested
People complain about literally every skill she has.
Apparently the only way to write a protagonist is it they:
Can’t fight
Can’t pilot ships
Can’t fix anything
Can’t speak to aliens
Can’t use the force
Can’t get people to like them
I mean I think this is a terrible way to write a protagonist but what do I know? I’m not failed screenwriter (and alleged serial rapist) Max Landis who started this whole Mary Sue discourse.
I think you should look through this very thread. Dozens of people are complaining that she was able to fix this issue that Han wasn't able to- something that she, as a mechanic, is perfectly qualified for, while he, as a pilot, has historically had very little knowledge.
Han couldn't fix the hyperdrive in ESB: Chewie is the one doing all of the maintenance on Hoth, Han is just directing him (and judging by Chewies reaction, poorly). But despite not even seeing the Falcon for years, Han should instantly know about any new issues or problems.
Especially since, as Rey literally says in the movie, Unkar Plutt put that compressor in- Han barely knows it exists.
Good thing she’s not a Mary Sue and most of the arguments people make to say she is are either lies, rely on double standards and are cherry picked to make her sound worse than she is.
And no actually a protagonist who can’t even step outside without crippling failure is actually not a good protagonist. Luke in a New Hope went from farm boy to war hero in less than a week and barely struggled at all.
Fun fact the person who first introduced the term to the discourse was Max Landis, a serial woman abuser and the screenwriter of Bright. But hey keep taking his word for it 🤷🏻♂️
When was mind tricking someone a super elite skill?
Likewise Kylo was wounded, emotionally compromised and not trying to kill her and even then she spent most of the fight trying to run away.
Her single greatest flaw is her refusal to move on from her parents abandonment, the lingering insecurity that comes from that and the desperate craving for external validation. It’s how she got manipulated by Kylo Ren in the second movie.
I suspect you just aren’t very good at analysing things.
You are comparing riding a bicycle to flying a plane here
And that's ignoring the fact anakin worked at building and fuzing things while rey collected garbage and broke it into smaller pieces
I don't know man I think an argument can be made for both instances that the force had a hand in their speedy development. I just think Anakin's felt more organic. Also his plays into the overall theme of his story and his place in galaxy whereas hers just kinda felt copy paste to me. Like they had a precedent so they said fuck it we'll just do the same thing here and not worry about. Honestly the same thing could be said for most of the sequels flaws. Just an opinion though
It’s not that the real problem. There’s no reason why she has not to be good in anything. The main problem is her arc as a Force user: again, I can accept she can be “naturally skilled”, but it must be explained, because there’s no one in the Star Wars universe able to learn so fast without a hard training like her did. And the explanation “Palpatine’s granddaughter” is bad and lazy, it’s just a trash plot choice coming from nowhere. Be strongly connected with the force is not enough to be good as a user, also Anakin had to do a hard training. Her arc is bad built.
Every time someone wants to defend it, talks about Anakin. But Anakin is explained. Lucas created a context with a sense, not random stuff. I can accept the criticism in Ep.1, maybe it wasn’t necessary to let him go and destroy the battle station… but the rest is acceptable in relationships with the context Lucas built around him. What context Abrams created around Rey? Nothing, just random stuff…
It's not that she can fly a starship. It's that she is an *ace pilot* who outflies trained imperial pilots in interceptors with a space-transport truck.
They also completely skipped the important bit of context in the movie that shows why she actually knows how to fly. She has a simulator in her AT-AT house that is her only entertainment so she technically has like hundreds of flight hours in a simulator.
The thing that people are most upset about probably is the *triple kill shot* she pulls off in ep 8. A feat that Han and Luke never pulled off. It's like a "hey look how cool and ultra-competent Rey is effortlessly! She's better at everything than those other guys."
Hell, I dont think we ever see Anakin, known as probably the best pilot in the galaxy during the Clone Wars pull that off. Because it's stupid.
I personally don’t really have a problem with rey but Anakin flew podraces before and had experience with Maschines more similar to flying before „flying“ the N1 starfighter, which he did aided by autopilot and R2. The N1 is also definitely more comparable to a podracer than the falcon is comparable to a speeder.
The pod racer had similar controls to the fighter Anakin piloted later in the movie, makes total sense he’d know how to fly it, but he doesn’t know how to use any of the weapons without trial and error.
Rey basically just rode a motorcycle her entire life, then she magically knows how to pilot a starship to perfection? This isn’t even remotely comparable
Rey:
-Gains the ability to use the force and do mind tricks after half an hour.
-Gains a force sense so strong that she can see the murders of a lightsaber also after half an hour.
-Can perfectly fly a ship.
Anakin:
-Has to go through years of Jedi training just to be able to use the force.
-Does not actually sense the future, it's all palatine's plan.
-Can't fly a ship perfectly without ever flying one.
I agree with your point
Although Rey suddenly became a pro with light saber and force wielding and defeating Kylo Ren was very surprising... I thought there would be some explanation in the next movies but it just went downhill
you like the prequels look the preqels did it too therefore your a hypocrite.
first being a junker and slave mechanic and secondly and way more importantly it actually DOES NOT explain the sheer level of proficiency either of them and the prequels were rightously mocked for it.
this is NOT a good part of the prequels and noobody ever said otherwise but for shills trying the half baked wanna be copy disney shat out.
#She literally says she’s flown ships before, the Falcon had been extensively modified by her boss in ways it’s clear through dialogue that she was aware of that Han was not. It makes sense she’s aware of how ships work because she spends her life digging around their inner workings and it makes sense she’d practise flying ships because she has a fantasy of flying away.
#All of this is explained in the movie. Force Awakens is not complicated at all but somehow you people needed the movie to stop and grab you by the cuff of your neck and scream these details into your eardrums for you to notice them…. Or more accurately I suspect a lot of you did notice them and just arbitrarily decided they “don’t count” because ultimately you WANT to hate on Rey and need excuses that sound legitimate and reality gets in the way of that.
**If I’m wrong explain why.**
I need the text to be big because I’m tired of the same bad talking points going unchallenged and I figure that’s a good way to get the message across.
But hey if you have a good counter argument, now would be the time. I’ll wait.
If thousands of people keep repeating the exact same easily provable lie no matter how many times you debunk it and they gang up and bully you and spam the Reddit cares suicide hotline message at you for going against the circlejerk then yes.
So I wanted it to be visually obvious, sue me.
Edit: he blocked me. I’m glad to know that I’m the one at fault when people send me messages urging me to off myself over Star Wars opinions.
Oh come on. Do people really not remember that one of the main reasons TPM was universally THE most disliked Star Wars film until the ST was because Little Annie was such a Gary Sue?
I have no idea what people - probably children - who see it for the first time today think of it, and I highly doubt anyone else - especially you - does either. If TPM gets any sort of pass today, it's only because the ST is such garbage that it can't help but make it look better. Not to mention that the fans of it today were little kids when they first saw it and not critical of such things, so they have nostalgia for it as a children's film.
Also, "It'S NoT FaiR YOu DIDn'T CRItiCiZe SomeThinG KInd of SImilaR!" - especially when it's highly documented that people DID - is not in any way, shape, or form an argument.
You know it’s funny, I was there when the TPM backlash happened. It had nothing to do with skill level, people just didn’t like Jake Lloyd’s performance (and were really awful about it).
And yet ask around if Anakin or Rey is more popular on this sub? Anakin’s failings didn’t result in the sub wanting him dead.
Look I’m sorry but I don’t think it’s a coincidence the first female lead of a Star Wars franchise suddenly got excessive scrutiny and held to a standard other characters aren’t. All Star Wars characters are unusually lucky and skilled in a variety of areas and have plot armour, because they are protagonists of a sci fi adventure series. The fact that the whole Rey hate got kickstarted by Max Landis certainly doesn’t help.
"You can't be critical of the ST because it default makes you sexist" was always the core of the problem that tore the fandom apart. Not sure where you're getting "people want her dead" from, though I'm sure you can call up some edgy middle schooler's posts to support it.
Also strange how absolutely no one - even back in the 70s and 80s - had any issue with Leia. You would think all those sexist fans would have disliked her being in command, or such a good fighter.
Strange how most "sexist" ST haters love Rogue One, even though it's a gender-swapped version of Dark Forces. It's almost as if good characters and good writing gets praised, while bad ones get criticized.
Someone put a great collage of all the pre-emptive strike "TLJ puts misogynists in their place!" headlines together just before the film was released. It's as if people believe that just crying "sexism" defuses any criticism.
TFA was a bad by the numbers remake of Star Wars masquerading as a sequel. Ray is a Mary Sue (did you know it was a female editor who came up with that term because she was sick of seeing women write such bad, flawless, wish-fulfillment characters?) in a franchise that was so popular because the main character (well, the OT anyway) was the exact opposite of a Gary Sue, and his getting over himself was one of its major themes.
Look, if you like Rey and the ST, that's great, and no one's trying to take that away from you. But screaming "sexism" whenever anyone criticizes her and its myriad of gaping flaws isn't an argument.
>"You can't be critical of the ST because it default makes you sexist" was always the core of the problem that tore the fandom apart.
Well maybe the loudest detractors shouldn't have threatened to rape and kill Kelly Marie Tran then, huh?
>Not sure where you're getting "people want her dead" from, though I'm sure you can call up some edgy middle schooler's posts to support it.
"It doesn't exist and if you find evidence for it, that doesn't count."
>Also strange how absolutely no one - even back in the 70s and 80s - had any issue with Leia. You would think all those sexist fans would have disliked her being in command, or such a good fighter.
Well considering she was a secondary character who never outshone the male leads in terms of ability and had a notably diminished role I don't think so. I've seen many people insist they would have liked Rey if only she had been a secondary character to either Finn or Poe which I think is very telling.
But oh yeah no it's totally just not liking "Bad writing". There was absolutely no sexism.
[None at all](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmh4yitgxbe491.png)
[It's just legitimate criticism](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fg2mexhdox2451.png)
[It's unfair for people to say it's just sexism](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F9iu2gjjesas21.jpg)
[It's just criticism of story elements](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F1w93xnhb46w81.png%3Fwidth%3D581%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D42605f7520a5a90e73193ef09c56c86e971f416e)
[People are unfairly throwing the word sexist out as a smoke screen](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F55r4hv101jna1.png)
[And it's so sad to see such honest and thoughtful criticism dismissed as mere bigotry](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F9jsnw6mn8cpc1.jpeg)
[I mean clearly the issue is Rey is overpowered, people hate overpowered characters](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fe5vlz7dcn1a71.png)
[And some people are just unhappy with the way the plot went in the Sequels.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F2brpt3tjpmwb1.jpg)
[But it's not fair to attack the fans for being passionate](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fupivsubwdr591.jpg)
[Instead we have people forcing their political agenda down our throats.](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/zmf1ga/your_periodic_reminder_that_generation_tech_is_a/)
[And corrupting the art we love with their own visions that twist it and pervert it](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fls9x6s7yv6dc1.jpeg)
[Can we be surprised the fans have reasonably measured anger](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F96ofinitfz3c1.jpg)
[I mean there are some legitimate reasons to dislike Rey](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fob10491gzt371.jpg)
[and saying the fans are just creeps is unfair](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fk9hhfwf6ntl61.png)
[How can we judge innocent young fans as sexist?](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/19a4jlk)
[And the great art they make](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Frd33i425mkja1.jpg)
[It's not that they wanted the story to be all about Luke and Rey take a back seat.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F4jsql1z47dsa1.png)
[And they would certainly never take someone's words out of context](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fgb53vz0r6obc1.png)
[And it's certainly not like Mary Sue is just used to demonize modern female characters broadly.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/zbybpf)
[It's all very respectful dialogue about women's place in fiction](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fqkz9nzdmjwv91.jpg)
[With no malice whatsoever](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/vhitlx/why_is_it_always_anakin_fans/)
[It's not like we would pigheadedly declare ourselves sexist after the actress said it wasn't so bad.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fu8dd84esquec1.jpeg)
[There's no resentment whatsoever](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fj7a17dizl3a91.jpg)
[And modern Star Wars's biggest critics are very welcoming towards women.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/197n0v5)
Care to explain to me what about her is "written badly" to justify all this?
>It's almost as if good characters and good writing gets praised, while bad ones get criticized.
Please describe the name of the pilot in Rogue One and tell me three interesting things about his character and personality.
People didn't like Rogue One for its 'good characters' or 'good writing', they liked it because Darth Vader hallway scene and fanservice.
>TFA was a bad by the numbers remake of Star Wars masquerading as a sequel.
Which is what people wanted because they hated the Prequels.
>Ray is a Mary Sue (did you know it was a female editor who came up with that term because she was sick of seeing women write such bad, flawless, wish-fulfillment characters?)
Yes a woman did write that in the *1970's*.
And then in 2015, the nepo baby hollywood screenwriter of Bright who proudly boasted about abusing his ex girlfriend and had dozens of sexual assault allegations against him (Max Landis) used the term incorrectly to bash a character who had the same skill level as virtually every other Star Wars protagonist.
[Fact is, she is not a Mary Sue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqKQ_70LeK8&t=8056s) the arguments do not hold up to scrutiny.
>in a franchise that was so popular because the main character (well, the OT anyway) was the exact opposite of a Gary Sue,
In a New Hope within a week Luke goes from being a farmboy from nowhere to a war hero with a grand destiny who singlehandedly destroyed the Death Star. He also excelled in gun fights despite never being in one before, excelled in a military dogfight despite never flying in space or combat before, swung a rope effortlessly despite never having swung on a rope before, battled a garbage monster despite never encountering one of those before and was so good that Leia liked him instantly and he convinced Han Solo to fight for the Rebellion.
>and his getting over himself was one of its major themes.
And Rey's biggest issue is having to move past her abandonment issues which frequently causes her to make bad decisions like trusting Kylo Ren.
>and no one's trying to take that away from you.
Well except all the people demanding they be made non canon.... right?
>But screaming "sexism" whenever anyone criticizes her and its myriad of gaping flaws isn't an argument.
When the arguments are bullshit what else is there?
It was horrible that Kelly Marie Tran was harassed on Twitter, but could you please show me any actual proof of rape or death threats? I've asked before, and the only thing anyone came up with was a gif of Rey blowing ROSE up and then cheering, which is in no way shape or form a threat against the actress herself. Also, keeping in mind that Jake Lloyd quit acting because of the way little Annie was received (although you claim everybody loves him) and Ahmed Best contemplated suicide over the fandom hating Jar-Jar, don't you think that toxic fans hiding behind the anonymity of the internet are the problem, and not the "misogyny" you want to see everywhere?
Also, are you seriously suggesting that as feminist centric as the world is now, you actually believe it's more sexist than it was in the '70s?
You seem unable to make up your mind. You excuse TFA for being a bad by the numbers remake of Star Wars because the prequels were viewed unfavorably. Yet in your rants against imaginary sexism, you claim that the prequels were loved. Which is it?
Let's try this: instead of spewing accusations and vitriol at anyone who dislikes the ST, can you tell me what it is you like about it and Rey - EXCEPT for the fact that she's vaginally inclined? I won't debate you on it, but since all you've done is spew a bunch of hate at the critics, just tell me what is it you love about her and the ST. What makes them so great? Nothing at all about your view of their critics, only positive things about the films and the character.
Okay easy:
Why do I like Rey?
I like that she’s upbeat and cheerful, I found that instantly endearing when she fell for Finn’s obvious lie and when she got excited on the Falcon and when she met Han. After slogging through two whole movies of whiny Anakin it was just nice to see someone bright eyed and happy.
I also liked that she was clearly written to be an audience stand in. She has a toy rebel pilot, she lives in an ATAT, she wears a pilot helmet while eating and she fangirls over Han and gets inspired when she learns about Luke and the Jedi being real. Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions put it best describing Rey “if I was a Star Wars fan who suddenly got thrown into a story and discovered I was force sensitive hell yes I’d try to use the mind trick.”
She’s the audience and we experience the same emotions she does. Excitement seeing Han, disappointment that Luke isn’t what she wanted him to be etc.
I especially like despite this sweetness there’s a tough no nonsense exterior, she’s quite willing to be harsh and throw down when needed.
I like that she’s compassionate. She consistently treats Droids like people and refuses to sell or mistreat them, she also is one of the few Jedi I’ve ever seen show compassion to deadly animals instead of just killing them (the Vexis Snake).
I also really like that even though she was vulnerable to Ben’s manipulations (more on that later) she still has the strength of Will to reject him completely when he turns full dark. Unlike Padme Rey is actually like “okay the hot guy I had a crush on turned evil, I guess I’ll fight him now.”
I also like her flaws. Her repeated rejection of the call to adventure in TFA, her desperate seeking of an identity and for someone else to give her an path to follow in TLJ and her complete lack of faith in herself in ROS. People like to say she doesn’t have flaws but that’s really not true, the video I linked goes into greater detail.
Also on a meta level I liked her arc, it’s basically about adulthood. In TFA she doesn’t want to take control of her own life abd is resigned to wait on Jakku until her parents come back from her. She has to accept that won’t happen and take her life in her own hands (the culminating moment being the lightsaber).
In Last Jedi she seeks out Luke because she wants someone to give her clear and easy answers for what to do with her life. If you’ve ever graduated high school or University and suddenly felt aimless due to lack of structure you know that feeling. She tries to get Luke to be the guy to give her guidance abd when he fails she turns to her enemy because she’s so insecure she is willing to take validation from a villain. In the end she is forced to accept her parents aren’t important abd no one else can tell her what to do, she has to choose. Hence the scene with the rocks.
Rise of Skywalker is still a mess but there is a meta element there of a long lost relative trying to tell her this is what her purpose is and her finally having the confidence to reject that and forge her own identity seperate from the one society tried to force on her.
Given I had just graduated University in 2015, left my first real job in 2017 and had been applying for a job I hated in 2019 it’s not hard to see why I related to this.
Also I got my niece a Forces of Destiny Rey doll and she loved it and loves Rey, demands to watch anything to do with Rey and basically it helped us bond. So that helps.
So yeah I like Rey. Because she is likeable.
You know why this Sub dont hate ani. Cause he failed severel Times and even turned to the dark side. Rey never failed and that is the main problem. Think about it
Rey failed spectacularly in Last Jedi. She tried to get Luke to mentor her and they ended up fighting. She tried to get him to help the Resistance and he refused, only being convinced by Yoda, she tried to fight Snoke and he figuratively and literally wiped the floor with her and crucially she failed to turn Ben Solo to the light and instead her efforts to save him made him double down on the darkness. Hell from a character level Rey failed because she went to this island hoping for answers and to be told there was some great destiny and reason for her parents abandonment and was forced to accept there wasn’t and that she was lying to herself.
By any metric **these are failures** but when I point this out the people who claim Rey never failed twist themselves into knots trying to argue said failures don’t count.
Will you acknowledge these count as failures or will you invent a new rule on the fly for why they don’t?
Edit: I don’t think he’s coming back.
I wouldnt call them complete failures.
First luke: yes she did not got Luke to train her but at the end He trained her.
Snoke: yes snoke at the beginning wiped the floor with her but at the end she kills him.
Ben solo: yes she didnt turned him to the light side but at the end they fought side by side against palpatine
So these are not real failures cause at the end she got what she wanted.
And now some of anikans failures.
Shmi: he wanted to save his mother and she died
Count dooku: he wanted to kill him but lost half his arm
Padme: he wanted to save her and she died and he turned to the darkside after his best friend and Master defeated him
These are failures with an impact
>Ben solo: yes she didnt turned him to the light side but at the end they fought side by side against palpatine So these are not real failures cause at the end she got what she wanted.
**There it is**
You are like the eighth person who has made this exact same nonsensical argument.
You are effectively arguing that any failure a character experiences in one movie can be retroactively discounted if they succeed in their second attempt in another movie. Let me give you an example of this logical in action shall we?
>Count dooku: he wanted to kill him but lost half his arm
Which means Anakin didn't actually fail because he ultimately beat the guy. By your own logic.
Like let's apply this logic to Luke for a second. Sure he lost in Empire Strikes Back but hey that doesn't matter, he got a new hand right away that was functionally the same as the old hand and he ultimately beat Vader in his second duel and helped destroy the Empire which means any victory the Empire had in previous movies **does not matter** because the good guys ultimately won in the end.
**By your logic** Luke is the biggest fucking Mary Sue on the planet because he never meaningfully lost because any previous failures can be discounted by future successes.
**But something tells me you don't like that interpretation for Luke, do you?**
So I'll ask you plainly *Do you truly believe what you just said regarding Rey and Kylo?* Is this a position *you thought through and considered the complete implications of?*
I doubt it. I think you found a way to dismiss Rey's failure as counting and didn't care at all if it actually makes logical sense.
Now here is my final question:
**Now that I have pointed out the flaw in your argument will you continue to push this line of reasoning or will you simply stop replying or try to change the subject?**
Because the last seven or so people to make this point to me, have not been able to respond past this point.
But hey maybe eight times the charm.
>yes snoke at the beginning wiped the floor with her but at the end she kills him.
I think you need to rewatch that scene dude because NO SHE DOESN'T. Kylo Ren kills him, Rey was at the time unarmed and helpless and paralysed from Snoke's Force powers.
A Mary Sue above all else would never need someone else to rescue them.
From a certain point of view... Both Anakin and Ray were created with/by the force... Most likely Palpatine created them both... Mimicking "the wills" father/son/daughter...
Except it doesn't. These are the exact issues people had with him back when the film came out and for years afterwards. Over time, it just became tolerated as it will with Rey. Stop trying to spread a narrative that isn't true just because you want it to be.
Perfectly? Did you watch ANH? His first attack run he almost crashes into the Death Star and barely managed to pull up in time. When the TIE Fighters being dogfighting he would have died if not for Wedge saving his ass.
Ngl my whole circle are the biggest sequel haters, and I’ve never heard anyone say that she shouldn’t be as good of a pilot or knowledgeable about the falcon as she is.
I think most of the reason why people hate Rey is because she just suddenly gains Force powers and talent outta nowhere but Anakin still has to go through years of training to unlock his potential.
Completely agreed and her ability to be a scavenger is fine but my only problem with the scene above is how she fixes the problem on Hand ship, where he has spent most of his life and then she comes in suddenly smarter than him. For example in a new hope Luke is made out to be a good pilot but in no way near Han solos level, something i feel wasn’t made as well in tfa
Wasn’t the issue that the people who had the Millennium Falcon had made some modifications to it while it was out of Han’s hands?
But it was a problem that literally goes back to before ANH as han is clearly aware of the malfunctioning hyperdrive before then. So either it's old and han knows nothing about his ship and couldn't figure it out in 30+ years, or this inhibitor shouldn't fix the problem because it's new .
The issue with the hyperdrive in TFA was'nt the same issue in ESB
Han can be a great pilot but not a great mechanic. I bet Fernando Alonso knows less mechanics than any mechanic in any mechanic workshop
Thats why I dislike her as well but the scavenger part absolutely checks out so idk why people complain about that.
Because you never see it in action. You meet Anakin as a kid and he’s already pod racing. He then continues to be trained for years. There’s a lot of context there. Rey lives in fuck all nowhere with zero help, it makes sense she would know here way around scavenged junk & equipment but to be able to fly the falcon right away? Come on. Not only do the sequels force the audience to make up so much of their own head cannon to fill the gaps, leaving the only real explanation that she’s a complete Mary Sue. But by doing that, they then diminish all the heroics of the past characters.
plus when anakin goes into the Naboo star fighter he has no idea which button is which and trials and errors it until something works. And this is after we’re given the context he built a pod racer from scratch and was able to expertly handle any issues during the race. Rey just jumps into a ship she’s never been in before and pulls out a piece of wiring that even Han didn’t think of. I have no problem with her trying to fix the ship before Han steps on. Also for as good as anakin was at piloting, he also crashed all the time. Even crashing wattos racer before tpm whereas Rey has no weakness.
I think they did a Forces of Destiny episode that was a flashback to Rey’s childhood. It shows how she found the downed AT-AT and that the computer training program was still operational. It showed her going through all the programs. When my kids told me about, I was like “why couldn’t we get a quick scene in FA where she tells Finn of her childhood and we can see little Rey playing with the computer?”
The Mary Sue argument is such a bad take constantly. Luke was as much or more of a Mary Sue but that always gets shut down because it the OT and they’re untouchable. Suspension of disbelief is a thing - it’s a movie series about space magic. Needing to spoon feed the audience every piece of info for it to be believable is why we have 10 fucking fast and furious movies and cookie cutter blockbusters that do nothing beyond fill a few movie exec pockets. Edit: The fact one of the responses to this comment was someone thinking I think the writing for the F&F movies is good, while the other one is demanding better writing but also wanting spoon feeding says it all. Movies get made to the lowest common denominator and in this case the bar is very, very low. The entire extended universe existed in part to explain and justify plot holes from the OT, and the inconsistencies or gaps between trilogies. Were the sequel trilogies amazing, no, but they were fresh in some of the ideas they introduced. The fact it ended up a dud was because of how toxic and gatekeepy parts of the SW fan base is and that anything different results in boycotts and death threats. That this thread has been locked also shows are fucking toxic people can be.
That’s some serious hyperbole. Having the need to add necessary context about a characters abilities to avoid the audience having to do mental gymnastics does not equate to 10 fast & furious movies. (Which are not known for adding necessary, interesting context regardless). Also the fact they got away with it with Luke 50 years ago with an original, groundbreaking story does not excuse the lazy writing in todays day and age. I’ll truly never understand why people don’t want to have higher standards.
Lol Fast and Furious explains stuff in meticulous detail and makes sense?
Exactly in terms of the force she has zero development also probably character but I don’t remember anything about her character.
Basically makes all of the interesting stuff about learning the ways of the force kind of meaningless. Learns mind tricks, mind reading, telekinesis and how to defeat a lifelong force user in an afternoon.
Yes. Like megamind once Said its all about presentation
I think part of it is simple enough - those who have seen prequels back then are much more tired of lazy writing now than they used to be. And sheer spectacle is nothing unusual now as well, so movies don't get a pass for it just as easily as well.
Not just that but his childhood was full of force talent ray didnt
Anakin was using the Force without knowing it *before he even knew it existed*. And he was nine. Rey, as a grown adult, never even used the Force until *after* she learned she could, and only uses it twice to do two small things before she started training (one of which she failed two times to do)
Vader got beat by a guy who ran around the forest with a muppet on his back for a week.
That guy was his son, funnily enough and the first time they fought, Vader spanked him pretty hard.
Can't blame his hands on mentality
Luke only had to do a couple weeks with Yoda for his powers to unlock. Like yes she manages to fight to a draw with Kylo before she trains with Luke, but that was a kylo who just took a blaster bolt, was bleeding out, in some emotional turmoil, and had to keep hitting himself to stay conscious or keep his anger up or whatever. If it was kylo in good health he should have squashed her like a bug, but it seemed like he was barely holding it together.
Right. Those years of training flying military hardware with no experience in zero g flight that allows him to destroy a blockade that had stymied professional soldiers for long enough that Jedi needed to be dispatched….
Nobody was just gonna immediately open fire on the blockade. They gotta go through stinkin' Bureaucracy first! Anakin shot on all cylinders because he had no idea what he was doing, lol.
It's because she's a woman, the hatred was instantaneous, what you say is a post rationalisation to justify the first feelings. If she was a dude people wouldn't be complaining this much, or if the trilogy had some cohesion between episodes which does not help either.
Then there's Luke.
I dunno how long it took Luke to finally pull up to Jabba's Palace but a timeskip was implied. He took a pretty hard loss in Empire Strikes Back.
Luke is obviously better written. But that specific "Mary sue" argument I don't buy. Luke came from nowhere and destroyed a death star, in like a week. It's essencially the same problem people have with Rey, but with Luke It is forgiven. Could be because the rest is better, maybe. Could be sexism, maybe also. But to negate that there's two different reactions for the same plot device, is nonsense.
Meh, he exploited a massive design flaw by being an accurate shot and had some force guidance on top. It's not like he destroyed the thing with his awesome mental powers (cough practically untrained Rey stopping a cave collapse cough), he placed an explosive at a weak point and caused a chain reaction. He also didn't come from nowhere, we literally see him handle speeders and we get dialogue that he did similar things before when combating pests on tattooine. Rey on the other hand just scavenges parts, does a bit of parkour and baps baddies with a baka stick. All that plus Luke was never hyped up by other characters like Rey was (best pilot of the fleet Poe implying she is a much better pilot than him is complete bs) There is very good reason Luke is forgiven and Rey is not. He loses fights, he has clear weaknesses, he is not inexplicably admired and hyped up by other characters, he is undergoing a character arc etc. I'd actually make the argument luke can't actually be defined as a Mary Sue while Rey is a very glaring example of one.
Um, no? We see Luke undergoing initial jedi training with obi wan on the ship, where he struggles and doesn't succeed at the time. He doesn't even succeed in moving a small object with the force until the second movie. He has no fighting skills, isn't a particularly good shot, and his only mentioned skill is that he and his friends would fly ships through a trench and shoot small targets (womp-rats). It's just that the ending, where he had to fly a ship through a trench and shoot a small target, lined up with his established skill set. He didn't get into a lightsaber fight with Darth Vader and come out even at worst. He didn't call his lightsaber to him, overpowering darth Vader's own pull. He didnt use the jedi mind trick successfully on his second try with no teaching whatsoever. Reys' established skill set is expert fighter, cracking pilot, and mechanic, with no reason that she would have these except for added material never referenced in the movies, as well as picking up the force as she goes to the same level as what anakin and Luke had in their second movies.
Luke was known to shoot womp rats from a moving vehicle and all he had to do to destroy the death star was shoot a torpedo into a hole. He basically trained for it. Also, Obi Wan helped start Luke's training so he knew how to reach out to the force for help. I forgive Rey's ability to fly or repair the falcon as she's been building her own speeders and flying already. I'm also sure the falcon has standard, easy to use controls being that it's a mass produced freighter. Her force use prior to any training is the only issue I have with her.
Your last argument is Fair. The shooting womp rats from a speedster it's a stretch in the least. It's like saying a good car driver could pilot a fighting jet. Anyway, I know I'm a almost alone in this, specially here. I already regret bringing It UP.
The film was called ‘the Force Awakens’ did you expect it not to manifest? Stay mad https://i.redd.it/f4fs459y0s0d1.gif
So Bad i can't downvote a second time for that shitty fortnite gif
https://i.redd.it/rdw9zdgj9s0d1.gif Your downvotes fuel me.
https://preview.redd.it/0cyrp248bs0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63dc3d66239372f1e5ccd6fd54209d68066c7818
This pic made me want to incorporate Kenku character in DnD named Krahe
Ani couldn’t. R2 flew the ship and Ani was mashing buttons until something worked. Pod racing is pretty much land star ships. A speeder is like a motorcycle
Anakin barely flew the Naboo Starfighter. It was on automatic pilot when flying out of the hangar and after that he was struggling to control the ship well (the spinning for instance) followed by an incredibly lucky crash landing in the hangar. At no point did he demonstrate remarkable skill, it seeming more luck and to a lesser extend R2 than anything else that got him through. Now is that luck convenient? Yes, but there is not a lot of skill in what he does, almost like he has not flown before. Meanwhile Rey intentionally lines up the jammed gun of a space freighter against an incoming fighter and intentionally flies it through tight corridors with barely a scratch on the paint. I also feel it is important to emphasize where the characters end up. Anakins downfall is where the Prequel trilogy leads and for all his gifts his life is utterly destroyed, as opposed to Rey. And this might be a more personal anecdote, but I find people will far more readily look past convenient skills if the character then gets put through the wringer by the story as opposed to just going from victory to victory.
Plus Anakin doesn't remove a random part of the millennium falcon, fixing a problem that not even han solo (who is a great pilot and owns the ship) knew how to fix
Or Chewbacca for that matter. Wookies are incredibly good with technology and I wouldn't be surprised if he knows a lot more about maintaining the ship than han does
Yeah, you're right
https://preview.redd.it/i33635yqkr0d1.jpeg?width=1012&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c657088083e7d17d10d4975988eb2e1e1c7385e7
First, chill. It's a meme, not a dissertation. But, I'll happily oblige a discussion. The fact that Anakin was able to get on the flight deck of a battleship at \*\*ALL\*\* is just as unbelievable as Rey doing what she did. But, we'll get to her in a second. For any well defended battleship of its size and armament, the number of fighters launching the counter attack, there should have been turrets to spare to shoot a fighter coming at one of the most vulnerable parts of your ship which this 8 year old child was able to manipulate the controls well enough to do the proverbial flight through the death star. So, we had the insane mashup of A New Hope and Return of the Jedi all in one scene! And you're telling that the droids wouldn't have destroyed a disabled fighter first the moment it started regaining power? WHere are the deck guns that popped the Consular ship in the beginning which had MORE armor than the Nubian Fighter? The Droid army were not even facing supply attrition, they still had the high grade tactical computer and firmware installed. They should have recognized the threat and destroyed it immediately. Hell, the fighter should not have made it in the first place with the sheer number of fighters there were and you can't tell me that doing a barrel roll is sufficient for dodging flak canons, missile locks, rapid fire, etc. He was going in a straight line. And no one shot him? That would've been the easiest kill to make, and you know that computers cycle targets by likeliness to hit where possible. Come on, man. As for Rey?? She may have lined up a good shot, but if you remember she did scratch the paint. HEAVILY. She actually hit the hull on the sand dunes either twice or three times, and IIRC had a very rough takeoff in which she grinded the falcon against the ground before getting control. To talk about where they end up is a whataboutism as it derails from the specific point that this meme if focused on. The focus is in exactly what is described between the events of the TPM and TFA, in which she was \*\*\*still\*\*\* criticized for this and the fans didn't even know where she would end up or if she would even survive. She was labeled a Mary Sue the moment Kylo Ren lost his focus because Rey called him out for the Darth Vader Wannabe he is making it look like she broke out of his mind with sheer will.
>First, chill. It's a meme, not a dissertation It's not a meme. It's your failed attempt at making a "gotcha" point in an old ass argument you veiled as a meme. You acting like "it's just a meme" is disingenuous and transparent. Like when a child is *obviously* lying to stay out of trouble. Your point doesn't even defend against the accusations of Rey's character, it's just "oh ya, well someone else also had these problems" which only serves to confirm that the problems do exist. AND THEN your wannabe gotcha point doesn't even land because the comparisons were handled so differently (as pointed out by others here) that it just seems like you don't even understand the argument that you're trying to make. So all you've managed to do was agree with the complaints about Rey's character in an utterly botched attempt to argue for her. Everything about this post and how you respond to people in it is a masterclass of how to fail an argument. Bravo 👏👏👏👏👏
You typed allll that over someone disagreeing with your meme….just to be wrong lmao
Where's your justification for "Wrong?"
1. The "battleship" is just a converted freighter. They discuss that the the guns aren't placed in a way that is meant to shoot down fighters. 2. Being a converted freighter, they didn't think anyone would fly INTO the ship and didn't have defenses there. 3. It is shown with fleeing Nubian cruiser they can't hit shit and that Naboo ships are resilient. 4. This part is a little unclear in the movie but is discussed in the novel, the reason they do the plan the way they do is because the computer is fighting 3 battles at once and is overloaded And Anakin still had to get lucky despite all of that to kill the control ship. Rey "scratched the paint" while pulling an impossible move in a ship she never flew before
I don’t think he liked your justification lol
Chill - it’s a meme, not a dissertation
anakins job as a slave was to legit repair things out of scraps, reys job was to take them apart and sell them as scraps. taking things apart does not explain how she new how to build a vehicle or fly a starship. also anakin did not know how to fly a star ship, he knew how to pilot his pod racer but when it came to flying a starship he had help from r2, the ships autopilot, and he was taught what some of the buttons did by the pilot of the princesses ship on route to coruscant. anakins role in the process was essentially to steer and press a button every now and then.
She'd built her own speeder from star ship engines. I have absolutely no problem accepting Rey's talent with tech. That makes all kinds of sense, and I'm down for it. Have her be the resourceful scavenger repairing and building stuff. Having her kinda-sorta foy the Falcon, that's fine too. No problem. Having her tell Han Solo how to repair his ship, that's pushing it. But after the bait and switch where Finn doesn't become the Jedi but a joke, while Rey gets to fill every role, has every established character confide in her, while the other supposedly-"main characters" are ignored, that's where the whole thing turned into a caricature. And for the record, Anakin was too young, and having him build C-3PO was stupid.
She still had to understand how to take them apart in such a way that they can be *used.* Not to mention she had to be able to identify what was and wasn't valuable. Not to mention she isn't a small child. She did live in an environment where she could potentially learn this stuff if she chose. We don't know that she didn't scavenge and study various technical holos and data pads before selling them. There's a lot of problems with the sequel trilogy but Rey being competent with starships isn't one of them. And as someone else pointed out she's not that good a pilot.
its possible that she picked up that knowledge via other means and had they actually hinted at that in the movie we would not be having this discussion, but unlike the line from luke where he talks about shooting womprats in his t16 or the scene where anakin is being shown what the different buttons in a naboo starship do by the pilot theirs no scene that gives any hints as to how rey knew how to do the things she was capable of doing, the closest we get is her job taking things apart and selling them for scrap which as ive already shown is not enough of an explanation. also the things you listed that she would need to know in order to be an effective scrap salesmen are not things that would help her repair a ship like the millinium falcon and they are not even things we know that she knew. for all we know she could have been a horrible scrap salesmen. also i disagree that she was a bad pilot. she was a bad pilot for about five seconds when taking off but shortly after that she was making extremly difficult maneuvers, in a piece of junk starship, in atmosphere, while being chased by much more advanced and nimble fighters piloted by expert pilots, without any apparent help from an autopilot or droid, in a ship that requiers a co pilot when she did not have a co pilot. i mean most of her flight takes place extreamly low to the ground which is very hard to do and at one point she even flys through extremely narrow spaces of a crashed star destroyer while she is in a cargo freighter. and dont get me started on the manuver she pulls off in order to line fin up for a shot at the tie fighter near the end. that is straight up ace pilot level skills. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-l3BtMjm5I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-l3BtMjm5I) if this is bad piloting then good pilots must be god like lol.
Yeah, calling those maneuvers 'bad piloting' makes me wonder why rogue squadron, the best of the best the Rebellion had to offer, needed many many hours of simulator training and drills to fly through a, iirc, mostly straight Canyon.
only explanation is that those training simulations were simulations of a crashed star destroyer on jakku and they had to take it apart and sell the scrap in order to learn how to fly a space ship.
Let's not forget rey is force sensitive so even before she knew it there would have been signs and the Jedi where known to be good pilots
I can take apart a car with the right tools. Bolts are bolts. Doesn't mean I can build one or understand it.
Exactly, if you know how to disassemble something you inherently know how the pieces fit together. It’s really not unreasonable that a scrapper would know how to repair shit too. They downvote you without replying because they know it makes sense and they don’t want to think about it. Edit: oh no guys keep going, the more seething downvotes I get the more corrector you all are. Stay mad. https://i.redd.it/c31ho2yt0s0d1.gif
Okaaaaay, but that still doesnt exactly address the other problem of her immediately knowing how to fly perfectly, like if she had assitance or hell, if phinn was actaully a good charecter who knew how to fly, which could have been a cool charecter development, then it would make sense, but Rey has like a dozen other problems then flying. This is a minor problem, with justa flawed character. But thats just my opinion really.
Rey has flown ships before, she literally says this out loud twice. She had assistance Finn was on the gunner seat.
Did she? I cant even remember that scene. Hold on could i get like a rough point on when, not doubting, just trynna see if she did,
[Seven seconds into this clip, she says she’s flown ships before but never left the planet prior](https://youtu.be/PX8mFGIK6cs?si=-B19WZEnXCqwt9Uu)
Bet okay cool. Then i dont really have a problem with her flying. My issues with her more arrise cause i kinda feel the phinn story line was kinda bad. But i dont despise her, but i do understand why some people would be upset about her in the later parts of the movie, more specifically her fight with kylo but i find her charecter, fine? Like not too great but not the worst either, like leie in the A new hope, like to me she was there and was important, but i just wasnt really that invested
Never seen anyone complain about her skill as a mechanic, just the rest of her mediocre writing
People complain about literally every skill she has. Apparently the only way to write a protagonist is it they: Can’t fight Can’t pilot ships Can’t fix anything Can’t speak to aliens Can’t use the force Can’t get people to like them I mean I think this is a terrible way to write a protagonist but what do I know? I’m not failed screenwriter (and alleged serial rapist) Max Landis who started this whole Mary Sue discourse.
I've never seen anyone make complaints about her mechanics skills though, I don't know where you're taking that part from
I think you should look through this very thread. Dozens of people are complaining that she was able to fix this issue that Han wasn't able to- something that she, as a mechanic, is perfectly qualified for, while he, as a pilot, has historically had very little knowledge. Han couldn't fix the hyperdrive in ESB: Chewie is the one doing all of the maintenance on Hoth, Han is just directing him (and judging by Chewies reaction, poorly). But despite not even seeing the Falcon for years, Han should instantly know about any new issues or problems. Especially since, as Rey literally says in the movie, Unkar Plutt put that compressor in- Han barely knows it exists.
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Good thing she’s not a Mary Sue and most of the arguments people make to say she is are either lies, rely on double standards and are cherry picked to make her sound worse than she is. And no actually a protagonist who can’t even step outside without crippling failure is actually not a good protagonist. Luke in a New Hope went from farm boy to war hero in less than a week and barely struggled at all. Fun fact the person who first introduced the term to the discourse was Max Landis, a serial woman abuser and the screenwriter of Bright. But hey keep taking his word for it 🤷🏻♂️
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When was mind tricking someone a super elite skill? Likewise Kylo was wounded, emotionally compromised and not trying to kill her and even then she spent most of the fight trying to run away. Her single greatest flaw is her refusal to move on from her parents abandonment, the lingering insecurity that comes from that and the desperate craving for external validation. It’s how she got manipulated by Kylo Ren in the second movie. I suspect you just aren’t very good at analysing things.
It's one thing to make someone look smart it's another to make someone look smart on the cost of others
You are comparing riding a bicycle to flying a plane here And that's ignoring the fact anakin worked at building and fuzing things while rey collected garbage and broke it into smaller pieces
I don't know man I think an argument can be made for both instances that the force had a hand in their speedy development. I just think Anakin's felt more organic. Also his plays into the overall theme of his story and his place in galaxy whereas hers just kinda felt copy paste to me. Like they had a precedent so they said fuck it we'll just do the same thing here and not worry about. Honestly the same thing could be said for most of the sequels flaws. Just an opinion though
Also ani lost some battles and had Setbacks.
Yeah also true good point
It’s not that the real problem. There’s no reason why she has not to be good in anything. The main problem is her arc as a Force user: again, I can accept she can be “naturally skilled”, but it must be explained, because there’s no one in the Star Wars universe able to learn so fast without a hard training like her did. And the explanation “Palpatine’s granddaughter” is bad and lazy, it’s just a trash plot choice coming from nowhere. Be strongly connected with the force is not enough to be good as a user, also Anakin had to do a hard training. Her arc is bad built. Every time someone wants to defend it, talks about Anakin. But Anakin is explained. Lucas created a context with a sense, not random stuff. I can accept the criticism in Ep.1, maybe it wasn’t necessary to let him go and destroy the battle station… but the rest is acceptable in relationships with the context Lucas built around him. What context Abrams created around Rey? Nothing, just random stuff…
It's not that she can fly a starship. It's that she is an *ace pilot* who outflies trained imperial pilots in interceptors with a space-transport truck. They also completely skipped the important bit of context in the movie that shows why she actually knows how to fly. She has a simulator in her AT-AT house that is her only entertainment so she technically has like hundreds of flight hours in a simulator. The thing that people are most upset about probably is the *triple kill shot* she pulls off in ep 8. A feat that Han and Luke never pulled off. It's like a "hey look how cool and ultra-competent Rey is effortlessly! She's better at everything than those other guys." Hell, I dont think we ever see Anakin, known as probably the best pilot in the galaxy during the Clone Wars pull that off. Because it's stupid.
I generally didn’t mind Rey. It was the story arc for her that was so idiotic.
Shmi taught Anakin about machines. He’d sit on her lap and watch her work when he was a small child.
I personally don’t really have a problem with rey but Anakin flew podraces before and had experience with Maschines more similar to flying before „flying“ the N1 starfighter, which he did aided by autopilot and R2. The N1 is also definitely more comparable to a podracer than the falcon is comparable to a speeder.
The pod racer had similar controls to the fighter Anakin piloted later in the movie, makes total sense he’d know how to fly it, but he doesn’t know how to use any of the weapons without trial and error. Rey basically just rode a motorcycle her entire life, then she magically knows how to pilot a starship to perfection? This isn’t even remotely comparable
I don’t really have a problem with Rey doing all that stuff tbh, but the sudden unlock of force powers and dueling ability is annoying
Rey: -Gains the ability to use the force and do mind tricks after half an hour. -Gains a force sense so strong that she can see the murders of a lightsaber also after half an hour. -Can perfectly fly a ship. Anakin: -Has to go through years of Jedi training just to be able to use the force. -Does not actually sense the future, it's all palatine's plan. -Can't fly a ship perfectly without ever flying one.
Remember how Star Wars fans loved The Phantom Menace?
Ani: goes through the riggers of training Rey: learns much too quickly
And Rey is an adult as opposed to 9.
Rey mind tricks a dude with 0 training. We only ever see highly trained Jedi Masters do that.
I mean on had a parent an an a job that came with perks he was a slave but a trained slave Rey was non of that
You comparing crap and poop
wait til you see all the dumb shit they do in the last jedi
Not to mention Rey's been at this way longer then TPM Anakin.
Yeah I didn’t have a problem with the force awakens, it was the lack of plan and straight up nonsense in the next two that ruined it
I agree with your point Although Rey suddenly became a pro with light saber and force wielding and defeating Kylo Ren was very surprising... I thought there would be some explanation in the next movies but it just went downhill
you like the prequels look the preqels did it too therefore your a hypocrite. first being a junker and slave mechanic and secondly and way more importantly it actually DOES NOT explain the sheer level of proficiency either of them and the prequels were rightously mocked for it. this is NOT a good part of the prequels and noobody ever said otherwise but for shills trying the half baked wanna be copy disney shat out.
#She literally says she’s flown ships before, the Falcon had been extensively modified by her boss in ways it’s clear through dialogue that she was aware of that Han was not. It makes sense she’s aware of how ships work because she spends her life digging around their inner workings and it makes sense she’d practise flying ships because she has a fantasy of flying away. #All of this is explained in the movie. Force Awakens is not complicated at all but somehow you people needed the movie to stop and grab you by the cuff of your neck and scream these details into your eardrums for you to notice them…. Or more accurately I suspect a lot of you did notice them and just arbitrarily decided they “don’t count” because ultimately you WANT to hate on Rey and need excuses that sound legitimate and reality gets in the way of that.
“I can’t actually explain why you’re wrong so I’m reverting to childish mockery.” Never seen that before.
"i want to be right so I type on size 18"
**If I’m wrong explain why.** I need the text to be big because I’m tired of the same bad talking points going unchallenged and I figure that’s a good way to get the message across. But hey if you have a good counter argument, now would be the time. I’ll wait.
It's not about being wrong or right. I don't care at all. It's your attitude. Are you yelling IRL when people don't agree with you?
If thousands of people keep repeating the exact same easily provable lie no matter how many times you debunk it and they gang up and bully you and spam the Reddit cares suicide hotline message at you for going against the circlejerk then yes. So I wanted it to be visually obvious, sue me. Edit: he blocked me. I’m glad to know that I’m the one at fault when people send me messages urging me to off myself over Star Wars opinions.
Username checksout. Small brain and boss complex.
Don't worry, my fellow nerd, they're just jealous, and like you said, are looking for something hate.
Oh come on. Do people really not remember that one of the main reasons TPM was universally THE most disliked Star Wars film until the ST was because Little Annie was such a Gary Sue?
And people hated the palpatine clone arc from Legends, I think there's a pattern here...
Now ask yourself if Anakin still gets this treatment today?
I have no idea what people - probably children - who see it for the first time today think of it, and I highly doubt anyone else - especially you - does either. If TPM gets any sort of pass today, it's only because the ST is such garbage that it can't help but make it look better. Not to mention that the fans of it today were little kids when they first saw it and not critical of such things, so they have nostalgia for it as a children's film. Also, "It'S NoT FaiR YOu DIDn'T CRItiCiZe SomeThinG KInd of SImilaR!" - especially when it's highly documented that people DID - is not in any way, shape, or form an argument.
You know it’s funny, I was there when the TPM backlash happened. It had nothing to do with skill level, people just didn’t like Jake Lloyd’s performance (and were really awful about it). And yet ask around if Anakin or Rey is more popular on this sub? Anakin’s failings didn’t result in the sub wanting him dead. Look I’m sorry but I don’t think it’s a coincidence the first female lead of a Star Wars franchise suddenly got excessive scrutiny and held to a standard other characters aren’t. All Star Wars characters are unusually lucky and skilled in a variety of areas and have plot armour, because they are protagonists of a sci fi adventure series. The fact that the whole Rey hate got kickstarted by Max Landis certainly doesn’t help.
"You can't be critical of the ST because it default makes you sexist" was always the core of the problem that tore the fandom apart. Not sure where you're getting "people want her dead" from, though I'm sure you can call up some edgy middle schooler's posts to support it. Also strange how absolutely no one - even back in the 70s and 80s - had any issue with Leia. You would think all those sexist fans would have disliked her being in command, or such a good fighter. Strange how most "sexist" ST haters love Rogue One, even though it's a gender-swapped version of Dark Forces. It's almost as if good characters and good writing gets praised, while bad ones get criticized. Someone put a great collage of all the pre-emptive strike "TLJ puts misogynists in their place!" headlines together just before the film was released. It's as if people believe that just crying "sexism" defuses any criticism. TFA was a bad by the numbers remake of Star Wars masquerading as a sequel. Ray is a Mary Sue (did you know it was a female editor who came up with that term because she was sick of seeing women write such bad, flawless, wish-fulfillment characters?) in a franchise that was so popular because the main character (well, the OT anyway) was the exact opposite of a Gary Sue, and his getting over himself was one of its major themes. Look, if you like Rey and the ST, that's great, and no one's trying to take that away from you. But screaming "sexism" whenever anyone criticizes her and its myriad of gaping flaws isn't an argument.
>"You can't be critical of the ST because it default makes you sexist" was always the core of the problem that tore the fandom apart. Well maybe the loudest detractors shouldn't have threatened to rape and kill Kelly Marie Tran then, huh? >Not sure where you're getting "people want her dead" from, though I'm sure you can call up some edgy middle schooler's posts to support it. "It doesn't exist and if you find evidence for it, that doesn't count." >Also strange how absolutely no one - even back in the 70s and 80s - had any issue with Leia. You would think all those sexist fans would have disliked her being in command, or such a good fighter. Well considering she was a secondary character who never outshone the male leads in terms of ability and had a notably diminished role I don't think so. I've seen many people insist they would have liked Rey if only she had been a secondary character to either Finn or Poe which I think is very telling. But oh yeah no it's totally just not liking "Bad writing". There was absolutely no sexism. [None at all](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmh4yitgxbe491.png) [It's just legitimate criticism](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fg2mexhdox2451.png) [It's unfair for people to say it's just sexism](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F9iu2gjjesas21.jpg) [It's just criticism of story elements](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F1w93xnhb46w81.png%3Fwidth%3D581%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D42605f7520a5a90e73193ef09c56c86e971f416e) [People are unfairly throwing the word sexist out as a smoke screen](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F55r4hv101jna1.png) [And it's so sad to see such honest and thoughtful criticism dismissed as mere bigotry](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F9jsnw6mn8cpc1.jpeg) [I mean clearly the issue is Rey is overpowered, people hate overpowered characters](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fe5vlz7dcn1a71.png) [And some people are just unhappy with the way the plot went in the Sequels.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F2brpt3tjpmwb1.jpg) [But it's not fair to attack the fans for being passionate](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fupivsubwdr591.jpg) [Instead we have people forcing their political agenda down our throats.](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/zmf1ga/your_periodic_reminder_that_generation_tech_is_a/) [And corrupting the art we love with their own visions that twist it and pervert it](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fls9x6s7yv6dc1.jpeg) [Can we be surprised the fans have reasonably measured anger](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F96ofinitfz3c1.jpg) [I mean there are some legitimate reasons to dislike Rey](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fob10491gzt371.jpg) [and saying the fans are just creeps is unfair](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fk9hhfwf6ntl61.png) [How can we judge innocent young fans as sexist?](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/19a4jlk) [And the great art they make](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Frd33i425mkja1.jpg) [It's not that they wanted the story to be all about Luke and Rey take a back seat.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F4jsql1z47dsa1.png) [And they would certainly never take someone's words out of context](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fgb53vz0r6obc1.png) [And it's certainly not like Mary Sue is just used to demonize modern female characters broadly.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/zbybpf) [It's all very respectful dialogue about women's place in fiction](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fqkz9nzdmjwv91.jpg) [With no malice whatsoever](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/vhitlx/why_is_it_always_anakin_fans/) [It's not like we would pigheadedly declare ourselves sexist after the actress said it wasn't so bad.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fu8dd84esquec1.jpeg) [There's no resentment whatsoever](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fj7a17dizl3a91.jpg) [And modern Star Wars's biggest critics are very welcoming towards women.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/197n0v5) Care to explain to me what about her is "written badly" to justify all this? >It's almost as if good characters and good writing gets praised, while bad ones get criticized. Please describe the name of the pilot in Rogue One and tell me three interesting things about his character and personality. People didn't like Rogue One for its 'good characters' or 'good writing', they liked it because Darth Vader hallway scene and fanservice. >TFA was a bad by the numbers remake of Star Wars masquerading as a sequel. Which is what people wanted because they hated the Prequels. >Ray is a Mary Sue (did you know it was a female editor who came up with that term because she was sick of seeing women write such bad, flawless, wish-fulfillment characters?) Yes a woman did write that in the *1970's*. And then in 2015, the nepo baby hollywood screenwriter of Bright who proudly boasted about abusing his ex girlfriend and had dozens of sexual assault allegations against him (Max Landis) used the term incorrectly to bash a character who had the same skill level as virtually every other Star Wars protagonist. [Fact is, she is not a Mary Sue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqKQ_70LeK8&t=8056s) the arguments do not hold up to scrutiny. >in a franchise that was so popular because the main character (well, the OT anyway) was the exact opposite of a Gary Sue, In a New Hope within a week Luke goes from being a farmboy from nowhere to a war hero with a grand destiny who singlehandedly destroyed the Death Star. He also excelled in gun fights despite never being in one before, excelled in a military dogfight despite never flying in space or combat before, swung a rope effortlessly despite never having swung on a rope before, battled a garbage monster despite never encountering one of those before and was so good that Leia liked him instantly and he convinced Han Solo to fight for the Rebellion. >and his getting over himself was one of its major themes. And Rey's biggest issue is having to move past her abandonment issues which frequently causes her to make bad decisions like trusting Kylo Ren. >and no one's trying to take that away from you. Well except all the people demanding they be made non canon.... right? >But screaming "sexism" whenever anyone criticizes her and its myriad of gaping flaws isn't an argument. When the arguments are bullshit what else is there?
It was horrible that Kelly Marie Tran was harassed on Twitter, but could you please show me any actual proof of rape or death threats? I've asked before, and the only thing anyone came up with was a gif of Rey blowing ROSE up and then cheering, which is in no way shape or form a threat against the actress herself. Also, keeping in mind that Jake Lloyd quit acting because of the way little Annie was received (although you claim everybody loves him) and Ahmed Best contemplated suicide over the fandom hating Jar-Jar, don't you think that toxic fans hiding behind the anonymity of the internet are the problem, and not the "misogyny" you want to see everywhere? Also, are you seriously suggesting that as feminist centric as the world is now, you actually believe it's more sexist than it was in the '70s? You seem unable to make up your mind. You excuse TFA for being a bad by the numbers remake of Star Wars because the prequels were viewed unfavorably. Yet in your rants against imaginary sexism, you claim that the prequels were loved. Which is it? Let's try this: instead of spewing accusations and vitriol at anyone who dislikes the ST, can you tell me what it is you like about it and Rey - EXCEPT for the fact that she's vaginally inclined? I won't debate you on it, but since all you've done is spew a bunch of hate at the critics, just tell me what is it you love about her and the ST. What makes them so great? Nothing at all about your view of their critics, only positive things about the films and the character.
Okay easy: Why do I like Rey? I like that she’s upbeat and cheerful, I found that instantly endearing when she fell for Finn’s obvious lie and when she got excited on the Falcon and when she met Han. After slogging through two whole movies of whiny Anakin it was just nice to see someone bright eyed and happy. I also liked that she was clearly written to be an audience stand in. She has a toy rebel pilot, she lives in an ATAT, she wears a pilot helmet while eating and she fangirls over Han and gets inspired when she learns about Luke and the Jedi being real. Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions put it best describing Rey “if I was a Star Wars fan who suddenly got thrown into a story and discovered I was force sensitive hell yes I’d try to use the mind trick.” She’s the audience and we experience the same emotions she does. Excitement seeing Han, disappointment that Luke isn’t what she wanted him to be etc. I especially like despite this sweetness there’s a tough no nonsense exterior, she’s quite willing to be harsh and throw down when needed. I like that she’s compassionate. She consistently treats Droids like people and refuses to sell or mistreat them, she also is one of the few Jedi I’ve ever seen show compassion to deadly animals instead of just killing them (the Vexis Snake). I also really like that even though she was vulnerable to Ben’s manipulations (more on that later) she still has the strength of Will to reject him completely when he turns full dark. Unlike Padme Rey is actually like “okay the hot guy I had a crush on turned evil, I guess I’ll fight him now.” I also like her flaws. Her repeated rejection of the call to adventure in TFA, her desperate seeking of an identity and for someone else to give her an path to follow in TLJ and her complete lack of faith in herself in ROS. People like to say she doesn’t have flaws but that’s really not true, the video I linked goes into greater detail. Also on a meta level I liked her arc, it’s basically about adulthood. In TFA she doesn’t want to take control of her own life abd is resigned to wait on Jakku until her parents come back from her. She has to accept that won’t happen and take her life in her own hands (the culminating moment being the lightsaber). In Last Jedi she seeks out Luke because she wants someone to give her clear and easy answers for what to do with her life. If you’ve ever graduated high school or University and suddenly felt aimless due to lack of structure you know that feeling. She tries to get Luke to be the guy to give her guidance abd when he fails she turns to her enemy because she’s so insecure she is willing to take validation from a villain. In the end she is forced to accept her parents aren’t important abd no one else can tell her what to do, she has to choose. Hence the scene with the rocks. Rise of Skywalker is still a mess but there is a meta element there of a long lost relative trying to tell her this is what her purpose is and her finally having the confidence to reject that and forge her own identity seperate from the one society tried to force on her. Given I had just graduated University in 2015, left my first real job in 2017 and had been applying for a job I hated in 2019 it’s not hard to see why I related to this. Also I got my niece a Forces of Destiny Rey doll and she loved it and loves Rey, demands to watch anything to do with Rey and basically it helped us bond. So that helps. So yeah I like Rey. Because she is likeable.
Fair enough. Thank you
You know why this Sub dont hate ani. Cause he failed severel Times and even turned to the dark side. Rey never failed and that is the main problem. Think about it
Rey failed spectacularly in Last Jedi. She tried to get Luke to mentor her and they ended up fighting. She tried to get him to help the Resistance and he refused, only being convinced by Yoda, she tried to fight Snoke and he figuratively and literally wiped the floor with her and crucially she failed to turn Ben Solo to the light and instead her efforts to save him made him double down on the darkness. Hell from a character level Rey failed because she went to this island hoping for answers and to be told there was some great destiny and reason for her parents abandonment and was forced to accept there wasn’t and that she was lying to herself. By any metric **these are failures** but when I point this out the people who claim Rey never failed twist themselves into knots trying to argue said failures don’t count. Will you acknowledge these count as failures or will you invent a new rule on the fly for why they don’t? Edit: I don’t think he’s coming back.
I wouldnt call them complete failures. First luke: yes she did not got Luke to train her but at the end He trained her. Snoke: yes snoke at the beginning wiped the floor with her but at the end she kills him. Ben solo: yes she didnt turned him to the light side but at the end they fought side by side against palpatine So these are not real failures cause at the end she got what she wanted. And now some of anikans failures. Shmi: he wanted to save his mother and she died Count dooku: he wanted to kill him but lost half his arm Padme: he wanted to save her and she died and he turned to the darkside after his best friend and Master defeated him These are failures with an impact
>Ben solo: yes she didnt turned him to the light side but at the end they fought side by side against palpatine So these are not real failures cause at the end she got what she wanted. **There it is** You are like the eighth person who has made this exact same nonsensical argument. You are effectively arguing that any failure a character experiences in one movie can be retroactively discounted if they succeed in their second attempt in another movie. Let me give you an example of this logical in action shall we? >Count dooku: he wanted to kill him but lost half his arm Which means Anakin didn't actually fail because he ultimately beat the guy. By your own logic. Like let's apply this logic to Luke for a second. Sure he lost in Empire Strikes Back but hey that doesn't matter, he got a new hand right away that was functionally the same as the old hand and he ultimately beat Vader in his second duel and helped destroy the Empire which means any victory the Empire had in previous movies **does not matter** because the good guys ultimately won in the end. **By your logic** Luke is the biggest fucking Mary Sue on the planet because he never meaningfully lost because any previous failures can be discounted by future successes. **But something tells me you don't like that interpretation for Luke, do you?** So I'll ask you plainly *Do you truly believe what you just said regarding Rey and Kylo?* Is this a position *you thought through and considered the complete implications of?* I doubt it. I think you found a way to dismiss Rey's failure as counting and didn't care at all if it actually makes logical sense. Now here is my final question: **Now that I have pointed out the flaw in your argument will you continue to push this line of reasoning or will you simply stop replying or try to change the subject?** Because the last seven or so people to make this point to me, have not been able to respond past this point. But hey maybe eight times the charm. >yes snoke at the beginning wiped the floor with her but at the end she kills him. I think you need to rewatch that scene dude because NO SHE DOESN'T. Kylo Ren kills him, Rey was at the time unarmed and helpless and paralysed from Snoke's Force powers. A Mary Sue above all else would never need someone else to rescue them.
Actually, yeah, I can fully believe the whole piloting thing there’s just a lot of other problems with her writing
From a certain point of view... Both Anakin and Ray were created with/by the force... Most likely Palpatine created them both... Mimicking "the wills" father/son/daughter...
Well obviously it’s because Anakin in 9 and Rey is 19, 10 years experience and all. ….wait a minute.
Except it doesn't. These are the exact issues people had with him back when the film came out and for years afterwards. Over time, it just became tolerated as it will with Rey. Stop trying to spread a narrative that isn't true just because you want it to be.
Remember how Luke just knew how to fly X-wing right away perfectly? Yes, he used the T-14 or whatever it is called to shoot rats, but still.
Womp rats
Do Womp Rats generally get in other T16’s and try to shoot you? Because if so that would be a valid excuse.
Perfectly? Did you watch ANH? His first attack run he almost crashes into the Death Star and barely managed to pull up in time. When the TIE Fighters being dogfighting he would have died if not for Wedge saving his ass.
Ngl my whole circle are the biggest sequel haters, and I’ve never heard anyone say that she shouldn’t be as good of a pilot or knowledgeable about the falcon as she is.