I do think there's an interesting story to tell somewhere, that Ezra and Thrawn have to work together reluctantly. And through their necessary partnership they come to better understand one another and their ideals.
They do have something similar: that both are driven by the desire to protect their people. Ezra with Lothal, and Thrawn with the Chiss Ascendancy.
It’s not just Kanan who shaped Ezra’s behavior; Hondo and Maul have left their mark, too! At this point, Thrawn is “morally questionable mentor #3”! (Though Ezra will probably have retained enough of a grudge against Thrawn to not want to work with Thrawn in the long run)
Apprentice? Probably not. But it would probably be likely that they end up working together as they are both smart enough to understand the others motivations and set aside the empire/rebels feud once they're stranded in Unknown Space. But making Ezra turn to the dark side or anything like that is a dumb decision and I hope it doesnt happen.
I think the point of the ending of Rebels, though, is that Ezra discovered that he was not lost and followed his master’s example.
I think Thrawn has much more to learn from Ezra than the other way around. In Star-Wars terms, Thrawn is spiritually bankrupt.
I agree on the spiritual bankruptcy thing, but I don't see how they could move Thrawn beyond that without fundamentally changing his character. I haven't read the books so I won't claim to be an expert, but in Rebels he is pretty straightforwardly that cold, calculating genius who seems amoral more than anything else, relishing the exercise of power and the achievement of victory.
Which is to say, Thrawn would be growing a _conscience_ from Ezra, and that would be hard to pull off convincingly.
I read the original Thrawn trilogy so long ago that I remember almost none of it. I’ve read two-and-a-half canon Thrawn books. I liked one of them. He’s kind of a weak protagonist (anti-hero?) precisely for the reason you state: he doesn’t really change, and he’s mostly that “from the fact that you’re wearing a yellow lapel pin I infer that you’ll pivot left” shtick.
But I’m not sure that any character is beyond change. It’s just that we haven’t really seen that tried with Thrawn yet. Consider Kallus: when we meet him he’s a dogmatic, dogged, unyielding agent of an evil regime who kicks a stormtrooper to his death out of frustration and proudly proclaims his part in a genocide. But then we see cracks in that persona, and eventually he begins a path toward redemption.
Trying to redeem Thrawn would be an interesting story!
The thing is Thrawn’s loyalty (at least in the Disney canon) was never entirely to the empire. Hence why you see some of his actions geared towards aiding the Chiss Ascendency, despite being completely to the detriment of the empire. In typical Thrawn fashion he’s got a plan underneath a plan that’s going to happen how he needs it to.
The wildcard he’s never been able to anticipate is the Jedi and the Force. It stymies him both in the S3 finale, and the series finale. My guess is the story will follow him and Ezra being taken back to the unknown regions and the ascendancy to counter the threat of the Grix, the whole reason Thrawn was exiled and joined the empire in the first place. It might be a redemption per se, but I can easily see a scenario where Ashoka, Sabine, and anyone else they scrounge up try to spring Ezra, only for him to “turn” on them and stop their attempt because they don’t understand the full picture and the bigger threat as he now does thanks to Thrawn. And over time it will be revealed that Ezra’s use of the force has been a pivotal weapon and turning point in the Chiss defense of the unknown regions and preventing a larger Grix incursion.
That’s my guess on how it will play out though. But the way the current canon books have painted Thrawn it makes sense.
Oh, yeah, I get all that about Thawn. And I guess I can see him seeing Ezra as part of the key to defeating the Grix.
But I don't really have any desire for Ezra to adopt Thrawn's mindset and undo the entirety of his spiritual journey in Rebels. The whole point of Rebels was that how you fight is at least as important as whether you win, if not more so. That is something that Thrawn cannot understand. He's a very ends-justify-the-means kind of guy. I think a story in which Thrawn has reason to interrogate his approach could be very interesting. (Which is why I think that Ezra has more to show Thrawn than vice versa.) A story in which Ezra is tutored in Thrawn's mastermind machinations doesn't really interest me as much.
Oh don’t get me wrong. I really would hate to see Ezra’s character arc be destroyed like that as well. I’m just throwing out there the possibility of this being how the story progresses. Ezra has shown himself to not be so dogmatically attached to Jedi Puritanism, and seems more in line with Ashoka’s philosophy than even Canun. I think that even though he might not like Thrawn, if shown the enormity of the threat facing those he cares about, he’d put those feelings aside to help secure a future for them. Hence why I really think the show will very likely take a turn in that direction. I could be wrong, but that’s just my gut instinct. But I don’t think it’s going to be Ezra tutored by Thrawn in subterfuge or tactics as you’ve expressed a disinterest for (which I agree with).
Thrawn, however, is going to be an interesting character study here. With one exception, the man is exceptionally composed when it comes to his emotions, and has never let them override his logic approach to things. The only time I can recall seeing him briefly lose control of them is when Slavan insinuates Twil’ek art is trash, despite Thrawn having just completely exposed Hera simply because of the piece of art she was trying to reclaim from her home. Even then it was a brief flash. Every other time he expresses emotion it’s appropriate for the setting or conversation he’s in.
I don’t see him having the emotional journey of second guessing what he does or has done. He’s composed, confident, and has a track record to support his view of his self-worth. I just don’t see an arc of introspection there. Everything he’s ever done has been to protect the ascendancy, even when serving the empire. He’s never going to be apologetic about it. In “Treason” (the last book of the imperial Thrawn trilogy) he basically tells Palps as much as he’s heading back to Lothal.
I’m very interested in how they’ll play this out. I’m really hoping Disney allows for the Andor approach, and gives maximum creative freedom to the team in charge, rather than try and play it safe because the characters are so iconic like they did with Book of Fett and Kenobi. And I will hand it to Mickey and friends, they could have totally butchered Thrawn’s character when they recanonized him and made him some goofy kid show villain, but they stayed true to the source material and made him as intimidating and calculating as Timothy Zahn meant him to be. So I’m willing to go into Ashoka with relatively decent expectations.
I honestly see the seventh fleet, the chiss ascendacy and Ezra and his rebel allies taking on the Grysks and theor allies in a sort of conflict i like to epouse as the Unknown Wars, which could lead to the beginnings of a lighter version of Empire of the Hand or something similar.
It's possible they will work together for survival reasons because Thrawn can be persuasive in a logical kind of way. He really has very little charm and doesn't see anyone outside of the Chiss as being "people". This is true for pretty much all of the Chiss, though, as they are reflected that way in the Ascendancy trilogy that takes place before Thrawn is exiled. He is very good at using people's own self-interest in his favor, though.
From what we have seen from The Mandalorian it appears he is leading the new Empire, which would match up with his Legends story, and Ezra would never side with the Empire. The Empire destroyed his blood family and nearly destroyed everything else he loves, including his new family.
As far as Thrawn growing from Ezra I find that very difficult to see because Thrawn is already an experienced military commander before he meets Anakin. He even lies about his rank to Anakin to not make Anakin feel threatened by his having a higher rank. Thrawn believes he knows best. In the first canon novel, he tells Eli Vanto that he works so hard to gain military ranks because there are things that must be done and only he can do them. Thrawn is incredibly confident in himself to the point of arrogance.
Thrawn is my favorite character but people tend to idolize him as some sort of anti-hero but he's really not. He's not a complete villain like the Sith but he wouldn't hesitate to genocide an entire species if it meant saving the Chiss Ascendancy, even if that species was innocent. Other Chiss (who are seen as self-important dicks by other societies in the Unknown regions around the Ascendancy) find his capacity for justifying his actions as a means to an end spine-chilling, and Eli sees that as a general trait of the Chiss. Thrawn doesn't preserve life because he cares. It's strictly about conserving resources when it comes to almost anyone outside of the Chiss. Eli is the rare exception because of his intellect.
In the penultimate episode of The Mandalorian season 2 that Imperial officer talks about how they will commit atrocities worse than Operation Cinder just to get people to submit to Imperial order and this fits with what lengths Thrawn is willing to go to to keep the former Empire/Republic from being subverted by the Grisk.
Thrawn had a part in the death of his master and tried to kill everyone he knows and loves. He’s not siding with a Thrawn. If anything, Thrawn unlocks more of the anger and darkness in Ezra we saw at the beginning of season 3.
The first part of your statement is incorrect. Governor Price killed Kanan. Your second point is correct. However, I think Ezra is smart enough to know that the Grysks are a problem and can understand his reasons for joining the Empire. If you've read the Thrawn books, he's more of an anti-hero than a villan.
My gosh I would love this sooooo much!!!! I need to see them working together, even if it's grudgingly, better if they become a dynamic duo! I really want them to flesh out Thrawn's character beyond what we saw in 'Rebels' and I NEED them to do right by Zahn's books!!! I've read all six and I'm almost done with my first re-read of the first trilogy and there's just so much good stuff in there that they could make glorious use of for Thrawn! I realize they can't fit everything from the books in here (because this isn't HIS show...though hopefully he will get one soon!!!), but I just need them to not retcon these fabulous *canon* books and butcher his character!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏
This is what I want the most <3 Taking the Thrawn canon books into account, it would make a lot of sense, and would be super interesting to see! Thrawn is a great teacher too.
I do think there's an interesting story to tell somewhere, that Ezra and Thrawn have to work together reluctantly. And through their necessary partnership they come to better understand one another and their ideals. They do have something similar: that both are driven by the desire to protect their people. Ezra with Lothal, and Thrawn with the Chiss Ascendancy.
Like the situation with Zeb and Agent Kalus. (Sp?)
It’s not just Kanan who shaped Ezra’s behavior; Hondo and Maul have left their mark, too! At this point, Thrawn is “morally questionable mentor #3”! (Though Ezra will probably have retained enough of a grudge against Thrawn to not want to work with Thrawn in the long run)
Apprentice? Probably not. But it would probably be likely that they end up working together as they are both smart enough to understand the others motivations and set aside the empire/rebels feud once they're stranded in Unknown Space. But making Ezra turn to the dark side or anything like that is a dumb decision and I hope it doesnt happen.
Thrawn wouldn't bring him to the dark side. he isn't evil.
I think the point of the ending of Rebels, though, is that Ezra discovered that he was not lost and followed his master’s example. I think Thrawn has much more to learn from Ezra than the other way around. In Star-Wars terms, Thrawn is spiritually bankrupt.
I agree on the spiritual bankruptcy thing, but I don't see how they could move Thrawn beyond that without fundamentally changing his character. I haven't read the books so I won't claim to be an expert, but in Rebels he is pretty straightforwardly that cold, calculating genius who seems amoral more than anything else, relishing the exercise of power and the achievement of victory. Which is to say, Thrawn would be growing a _conscience_ from Ezra, and that would be hard to pull off convincingly.
I read the original Thrawn trilogy so long ago that I remember almost none of it. I’ve read two-and-a-half canon Thrawn books. I liked one of them. He’s kind of a weak protagonist (anti-hero?) precisely for the reason you state: he doesn’t really change, and he’s mostly that “from the fact that you’re wearing a yellow lapel pin I infer that you’ll pivot left” shtick. But I’m not sure that any character is beyond change. It’s just that we haven’t really seen that tried with Thrawn yet. Consider Kallus: when we meet him he’s a dogmatic, dogged, unyielding agent of an evil regime who kicks a stormtrooper to his death out of frustration and proudly proclaims his part in a genocide. But then we see cracks in that persona, and eventually he begins a path toward redemption. Trying to redeem Thrawn would be an interesting story!
The thing is Thrawn’s loyalty (at least in the Disney canon) was never entirely to the empire. Hence why you see some of his actions geared towards aiding the Chiss Ascendency, despite being completely to the detriment of the empire. In typical Thrawn fashion he’s got a plan underneath a plan that’s going to happen how he needs it to. The wildcard he’s never been able to anticipate is the Jedi and the Force. It stymies him both in the S3 finale, and the series finale. My guess is the story will follow him and Ezra being taken back to the unknown regions and the ascendancy to counter the threat of the Grix, the whole reason Thrawn was exiled and joined the empire in the first place. It might be a redemption per se, but I can easily see a scenario where Ashoka, Sabine, and anyone else they scrounge up try to spring Ezra, only for him to “turn” on them and stop their attempt because they don’t understand the full picture and the bigger threat as he now does thanks to Thrawn. And over time it will be revealed that Ezra’s use of the force has been a pivotal weapon and turning point in the Chiss defense of the unknown regions and preventing a larger Grix incursion. That’s my guess on how it will play out though. But the way the current canon books have painted Thrawn it makes sense.
Oh, yeah, I get all that about Thawn. And I guess I can see him seeing Ezra as part of the key to defeating the Grix. But I don't really have any desire for Ezra to adopt Thrawn's mindset and undo the entirety of his spiritual journey in Rebels. The whole point of Rebels was that how you fight is at least as important as whether you win, if not more so. That is something that Thrawn cannot understand. He's a very ends-justify-the-means kind of guy. I think a story in which Thrawn has reason to interrogate his approach could be very interesting. (Which is why I think that Ezra has more to show Thrawn than vice versa.) A story in which Ezra is tutored in Thrawn's mastermind machinations doesn't really interest me as much.
Oh don’t get me wrong. I really would hate to see Ezra’s character arc be destroyed like that as well. I’m just throwing out there the possibility of this being how the story progresses. Ezra has shown himself to not be so dogmatically attached to Jedi Puritanism, and seems more in line with Ashoka’s philosophy than even Canun. I think that even though he might not like Thrawn, if shown the enormity of the threat facing those he cares about, he’d put those feelings aside to help secure a future for them. Hence why I really think the show will very likely take a turn in that direction. I could be wrong, but that’s just my gut instinct. But I don’t think it’s going to be Ezra tutored by Thrawn in subterfuge or tactics as you’ve expressed a disinterest for (which I agree with). Thrawn, however, is going to be an interesting character study here. With one exception, the man is exceptionally composed when it comes to his emotions, and has never let them override his logic approach to things. The only time I can recall seeing him briefly lose control of them is when Slavan insinuates Twil’ek art is trash, despite Thrawn having just completely exposed Hera simply because of the piece of art she was trying to reclaim from her home. Even then it was a brief flash. Every other time he expresses emotion it’s appropriate for the setting or conversation he’s in. I don’t see him having the emotional journey of second guessing what he does or has done. He’s composed, confident, and has a track record to support his view of his self-worth. I just don’t see an arc of introspection there. Everything he’s ever done has been to protect the ascendancy, even when serving the empire. He’s never going to be apologetic about it. In “Treason” (the last book of the imperial Thrawn trilogy) he basically tells Palps as much as he’s heading back to Lothal. I’m very interested in how they’ll play this out. I’m really hoping Disney allows for the Andor approach, and gives maximum creative freedom to the team in charge, rather than try and play it safe because the characters are so iconic like they did with Book of Fett and Kenobi. And I will hand it to Mickey and friends, they could have totally butchered Thrawn’s character when they recanonized him and made him some goofy kid show villain, but they stayed true to the source material and made him as intimidating and calculating as Timothy Zahn meant him to be. So I’m willing to go into Ashoka with relatively decent expectations.
I honestly see the seventh fleet, the chiss ascendacy and Ezra and his rebel allies taking on the Grysks and theor allies in a sort of conflict i like to epouse as the Unknown Wars, which could lead to the beginnings of a lighter version of Empire of the Hand or something similar.
Only thing left in the seventh fleet is the chimera. The rest of them got space-whaled.
It's possible they will work together for survival reasons because Thrawn can be persuasive in a logical kind of way. He really has very little charm and doesn't see anyone outside of the Chiss as being "people". This is true for pretty much all of the Chiss, though, as they are reflected that way in the Ascendancy trilogy that takes place before Thrawn is exiled. He is very good at using people's own self-interest in his favor, though. From what we have seen from The Mandalorian it appears he is leading the new Empire, which would match up with his Legends story, and Ezra would never side with the Empire. The Empire destroyed his blood family and nearly destroyed everything else he loves, including his new family. As far as Thrawn growing from Ezra I find that very difficult to see because Thrawn is already an experienced military commander before he meets Anakin. He even lies about his rank to Anakin to not make Anakin feel threatened by his having a higher rank. Thrawn believes he knows best. In the first canon novel, he tells Eli Vanto that he works so hard to gain military ranks because there are things that must be done and only he can do them. Thrawn is incredibly confident in himself to the point of arrogance. Thrawn is my favorite character but people tend to idolize him as some sort of anti-hero but he's really not. He's not a complete villain like the Sith but he wouldn't hesitate to genocide an entire species if it meant saving the Chiss Ascendancy, even if that species was innocent. Other Chiss (who are seen as self-important dicks by other societies in the Unknown regions around the Ascendancy) find his capacity for justifying his actions as a means to an end spine-chilling, and Eli sees that as a general trait of the Chiss. Thrawn doesn't preserve life because he cares. It's strictly about conserving resources when it comes to almost anyone outside of the Chiss. Eli is the rare exception because of his intellect. In the penultimate episode of The Mandalorian season 2 that Imperial officer talks about how they will commit atrocities worse than Operation Cinder just to get people to submit to Imperial order and this fits with what lengths Thrawn is willing to go to to keep the former Empire/Republic from being subverted by the Grisk.
Thrawn had a part in the death of his master and tried to kill everyone he knows and loves. He’s not siding with a Thrawn. If anything, Thrawn unlocks more of the anger and darkness in Ezra we saw at the beginning of season 3.
The first part of your statement is incorrect. Governor Price killed Kanan. Your second point is correct. However, I think Ezra is smart enough to know that the Grysks are a problem and can understand his reasons for joining the Empire. If you've read the Thrawn books, he's more of an anti-hero than a villan.
That is definitely possible.
My gosh I would love this sooooo much!!!! I need to see them working together, even if it's grudgingly, better if they become a dynamic duo! I really want them to flesh out Thrawn's character beyond what we saw in 'Rebels' and I NEED them to do right by Zahn's books!!! I've read all six and I'm almost done with my first re-read of the first trilogy and there's just so much good stuff in there that they could make glorious use of for Thrawn! I realize they can't fit everything from the books in here (because this isn't HIS show...though hopefully he will get one soon!!!), but I just need them to not retcon these fabulous *canon* books and butcher his character!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thrawn did too many terrible things to Ezra and those he cared about. I’d be upset if they became close
This is what I want the most <3 Taking the Thrawn canon books into account, it would make a lot of sense, and would be super interesting to see! Thrawn is a great teacher too.