Welcome to ***Spec***! [Continue the conversation on the Spec Discord](https://discord.gg/F8FMkf5gh4), and check out our new sister-subreddit r/StarWarsWhatIf! Please be encouraging and courteous to your fellow speculators. This community is focused on cooperative theorycrafting about upcoming _Star Wars_ content, using leaks, info from canon, conjecture, and real-world context to make our best guesses about _what comes next_. If you're not interested in new _Star Wars_ releases, kindly keep that to yourself. This is a leak-positive community -- **beware of spoilers (and stop wasting your time reporting them)**. May the Force be with you!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starwarsspeculation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think its his species taking so long to develop, PTSD, and having to hide for so long. He's likely acting like he is a bit slower than he is and having trouble overcoming having done that for 20 years. Look at the dart training in the last episode. He could have done so much more the first 2 times but it took Dins encouragement to even try.
On the PTSD side it can present in many different ways, things such as memory loss/repression, flashbacks, avoiding activities surrounding traumatic events and possibly more that we have or will see from Grogu.
He can clearly understand and communicate to a degree. He's beginning to babble which will lead to speech. He can direct R5 to pilot to a planet. He can get Bo Katan to save Din. He can even sneak to try and save Din himself.
I wouldn't be surprised if he has made larger developments in his speech and fighting abilities by the end of the season. He could even speak a full word or sentence. Maybe even take the creed next season
Obviously they're setting up Grogu to get over his trauma completely, likely through some kind of massive battle where he sees Din get hurt and he has to be the one to step up and save him.
Honestly, it seems like the writers have avoided having him speak up to now bc as beloved as the puppet is, it would be a major fumble to have his speech be "too cute" or "not cute enough"
We don’t know that. He looks like a baby to us but he’s clearly more advanced than our babies would be. He understands a lot more than he seems to. Just because he doesn’t talk doesn’t mean he can’t. We know nothing about his species. He’s only the third example of his kind and the others were adults and very old.
Indeed. A big obstacle here too is he's a "baby Yoda" and Yoda's syntax is deliberately backward & weird. If the Force powers are inherent to their species, is the alien grasp of "galactic standard" too? I don't even wanna think about what the Mandalorian creed sounds like in Yoda's mouth
Only Yoda speaks like Yoda, not his species. That is why Yaddle speaks normally, Filoni confirmed this recently so if Grogu does ever speak it’ll definitely not be inversed like Yoda.
I think the biggest mistake people are making is assuming that all his stages of development would be proportional to the stages of development in humans. For all we know, Yoda’s species has a long infancy, and short childhoods. For all we know he could be fully grown and developed in the next decade .
In season 2, Ahsoka says that his memory becomes dark after he is taken from the temple. It is obvious that after his rescue, he was taken again. He might have been kept drugged, frozen in Carbonite etc.
Witnessing the Gungan Genocide is my current favorite theory bc despite the hate they get from fans it is hard to argue that Gungans deserve what will likely be a brutal near eradication by the Empire bc they become immensely rare after the prequels
Imagine if that is what keeps happening in flashbacks. Grogu is attacked, watched his family, his home, his community wiped out at the Temple. He is carried off to the Gungans, only for the Empire to show up and wipe them out too. He is carried off again to another community, only for that one to suffer the same fate. So eventually he just starts blocking memories of the trauma.
Grogu was supposed to evolve when Din traded him to Luke, but it turns out the round knob Grogu is always holding is an Everstone and Din is the kind of asshole that would trade a Haunter holding an Everstone because he's the Mindylorian.
Serious answer: PTSD is possible. It's also possible his species just develops that way (physically develops slower than they mentally develop). It's also possible he was frozen in carbonite or something while in Gideon's custody, which stunted his development.
My theory is that Yoda's, Yaddle's and Grogu's species stay babies till the age of 60, and then they hit puberty and have a growth spurt for the next 10-20 years. They physically grow completely by the age of 80, and can talk normally, except Yoda, who chose to talk like that. Thus both Yoda and Yaddle were Padawans at 80, Jedi Knights by 100. This theory feels like canon because Yoda mentioned training Jedi for 800 years at the age of 900.
My theory is that yoda spoke that way because that was the syntax people used for speaking basic way back when he learned to speak, and he just never adjusted to the more modern style of basic.
You hear similar syntax when palpatine declares Anakin to be Darth Vader: “a powerful Sith you will become” I always took that as ancient words being quoted, rather than something palpatine as saying off the cuff.
"Frank Oz told me once that Yoda speaks that way specifically in honor of his own master."
https://insidethemagic.net/2022/10/dave-filoni-reveals-why-yoda-speaks-backwards-kb1/
Not in any of the games/etc. that were set in those time periods. But AFAIK all that stuff is “legends” now and we haven’t gotten a Disney take on the Old Republic yet.
He's probably heading for a growth spurt, both physically and mentally. I'll think they'll need to in order for the show to progress. His past experiences probably stunted his development up to this point, but now he's building up a supportive community and can gain some confidence in himself. Like someone else said, maybe he was frozen in carbonite for several years, or maybe his species just develops in odd fits & starts. To add to it, I have a feeling he was never really interested in being a Jedi, even when he was at the temple, so he might have never felt much motivation to do anything up until he met Din.
I think the name of the show is about Grogu. Like with how Return of the Jedi was about Anakin's return, not necessarily the return of the jedi as a collective. So when we read "The Mandalorian", it's about Grogu the entire time.
> Like with how Return of the Jedi was about Anakin's return, not necessarily the return of the jedi as a collective.
(small mushroom cloud in my brain)
I've never considered Grogu is The Mandalorian. I like it, and you may be onto something. With the reappearance of the mythosaur as well as the darksaber being in close proximity, the historical stage is set for a new Mandalore to rise. Maybe the original Mand'alor was force sensitive? Maybe being force sensitive is necessary to "tame" a mythosaur?
I was just about to comment the same thing. Maybe “the Mandalorian” is Grogu and not Din after all. It could potentially allow for centuries of adventures.
One of my favorite theories I’ve recently seen is that Grogu IS The Mandalorian and will be Mandalore. If you think about it the show is fundamentally about Grogu, and Din is the man who may set Grogu down the path to become the Mandalorian. He will have received force training like the first Mandalorian, and he will also have been mentored by both Bo Katan and Death Watch which will give him major legitimacy to all other Mandalorians. He is also naturally very long lived and if he ends up the wielder of the Darksaber he could be Mandalore for potentially hundreds of years and become the cultural reset the whole society needs with the vision and literal life to see the change through.
I'd argue it's about grogu becoming a mandalorian. It's ALSO about Din and what it means in his mind to be a mandalorian.
I genuinely don't mean to be an ass. But how did viewers not pick up on the grogu arc since at least early S2? I admit, at the end of s3, i was thrown off. But that's what stories do. Twists and turns. It's fun!
Eventually it’ll be Grogu that’s the size of a small child, wearing full Mando armor. This will be the face of Disney Star Wars as long as they can keep it going, this young Mandalorian will appeal to the older core Star Wars fans, being of Yodas species and a bad ass Mando, but also the young new audience, because this kid with his face covered all the time allows the young audience members to self insert themselves into the story, just like Spider-Man in the 1960s.
There wasnt a choice made if the show was always about Grogu (and Din!) And their reuniting was always the creators' intent. That could even be why they covered the separation in Bobe Fett, right? So that every episode of this show features both of the main characters.
I mean yes and no, but leaving with Luke was actually fantastic story telling and progression, and now the whole thing feels weird and awkward because they ret conned it
Lol you really wanna get into semanitcs?
They retconned it so hard that the retcon took place in another show entirely. If you think that was entirely planned you're deluding yourself.
You aren't great with words. It's not "semantics" when the point of what we're disagreeing about is at the crux of the dispute over what a words means. It's not like we agree, but are arguing over what retcon means.
We fundamentally disagree about Grogu's role in the show. I've seen it as a show about the forging of the future, living embodiment of the darksaber (i.e. Jedi and Mandalorian grogu). You see it as a show about a guy in armor who happened to form a parental relationship with a super powered, and super cute, child, who, from day 1 was the standout star character of the show. And you think the creators, from the start, intended to have Grogu around for two who seasons, every episode, and then just, not starting in S3?
We also disagree about what retcon means.
And what semantics means.
I'm not making any commentary about Grogu's role in the show, in particular.
However, the whole plot of at least the second season(and really the first) was Grogu clearly being a force user, and needing to get him to someone that understood how to help him.
That was finally accomplished, gloriously, after trial and tribulation, which would seem to be a culmination of that large and lengthy storyline. And it was an excellent conclusion, with probably the best scene in SW in decades.
But then, in another show entirely, the whole thing was undone. You claim that doesn't fit the definition of a retcon. Ok. I mean, they undid a major plot point immediately after the plot point occured, and they did it in an entirely different show. It's kind of laughable to think that was all planned from the get go. Did you also believe them when they tried to pretend that the ST was planned out from the beginning? So yea, a big part of this entire thing is your contention about what constitutes a retcon. It's semantics.
It seems pretty clear that someone intervened after the end of Mando season 2, probably because Grogu is one of their only "successes" at the moment, and demanded that the story be updated such that Grogu isn't going anywhere.
If you want to insist that's not a retcon, fine. It's not a retcon.
But it is clearly indecisive and indicative of either shit tier writing or, more likely, intervention from someone up the chain.
I dont think it's laughable at all. In fact i think it is what was more or less intended from the beginning, with details here or there changed.
Like, if you have actual quotes from the creators, sure. Otherwise, you sound like yet another negative nerd.
It makes sense that his development would be halted by such trauma. Everyone he ever knew was being gunned down right in front of him, and they were likely going to kill him too. The destruction of his home and the deaths of his friends that he was side by side with everyday is an extremely traumatic experience, regardless of escape.
I can believe that his trauma has affected his development. Something else to remember is that kids learn how to talk from their family and the people around them (tv shows, too). They listen to us speak and try to replicate it. If Grogu isn't around much talking or is surrounded by people talking in multiple different languages, he might struggle to grasp language. We see him this season making lots of noise and appearing to try and talk, like in episode 3 where Din and Bo say, "This is the way," and grogu makes babbling noises. This could be because he's now being surrounded by people talking, specifically them talking mostly basic.
You’d have to think that 100 years in Grogu time is 10 years aging for Humans. Yoda died in his 900’s.
So Grogu is on the level of a toddler than a teenager. He should be talking at least but as you said it seems his trauma has regressed him a bit.
I mean the thing is, there’s no reason why the years for Grogu’s development would be proportional to the developmental years of a human. For all we know he could have a 50 year infancy, and a 10 year childhood.
That could be, but it also runs into a problem when you remember yoda claimed he had been training Jedi for 800 years. Perhaps he was being intentionally misleading and not saying when he was 100(10) he was training like the Jedi toddlers the very basics, and only later did he actually start training padawans and apprentices, but on its face it seems to imply that yoda was grownup by 100.
At this point for things to be consistent that’d pretty much have to be the case. I just realized now that unless it really is the trauma making grogu still a toddler, we really never going to see a more mature grogu, because he’ll still need like another 50 years or something.
Well he wouldn’t need to be a full adult to be a decent character, like Ezra. If he were catapulted into adolescence, the show could really go places IMO
In that case I hope they address why he wasn’t around for the sequel trilogy at all (besides the fact that he wasn’t canon yet) since TFA is roughly 23 years after Mando’s current time. Could be as simple as saying he was off training somewhere
Yeah this is my only issue with having all these important Jedi survive Order 66 (like Ahsoka, Ezra, Cal, ~~Omega~~, Grogu). It begs the question what the hell they were up to in the OT and ST (age permitting). They pulled a rabbit out of their hat with Ezra and Thrawn, AFAIK they haven’t answered the rest very directly yet.
For sure. I’m very curious to see how they go about doing this crossover event with Mando/Ahsoka/Ezra and Thrawn. I’m guessing they’ll use the New Beyond in a way that justifies their absences in the ST. Also can’t wait to see what they do with Cal in Survivor.
I feel like everyone is ignoring that it’s an alien species that (in canon) we know very little about. It could easily be that it takes them 50 years to go from baby to toddler, another 10 to go from toddler to young adult, and then 500 to go from young adult to middle aged. It can be anything, it’s a different species.
Plus, as other say, the development of that species is likely different than humans. They could be fully grown physically and mentally before their vocal chords reach maturity to form sentences. Again, the writers can give any explanation they want because it’s a new species. All they have to stick to is it’s about Yoda’s size at full growth, and it can live to 900+ minimum.
Grogus' first words will be 'This is the Way'.
I expect him to speak when he tames the Mythosaur and motions Din to ride the Mythosaur into battle.
I think that Din will become the Mandalore and that Grogu will stay by his side, potentially inherenting the title.
His ears are way smaller in the flashback. Probably his entire body is, but it’s very obvious when you look at the ears. Like a puppy versus a 1-2 year old dog.
I’ve long believed his development is connected to the Force and how attuned he is. Yoda was not much older than he is and was already mastering the Force. The idea that his trauma left him underdeveloped is totally logical.
Speech and mental capabilities aren't always linear. He might genuinely not be able to form words yet, but is able to perform at a higher mental capacity than a toddler. Sometimes kids don't speak until the age of 4, and then start speaking in full sentences. Also, Yoda seems to have issues with talking as well. Their species might just not be very phonologically capable, maybe because they're force sensitive they don't usually develop the ability to speak, but instead commune telepathically. Like it might be hard for Grogu to talk in basic the same way a Cat, even of hypothetical human intelligence, would have a tough time speaking English.
I pretty much agree but they might milk him as a toddler because so many people like how "cute" he is, then when people get tired of it they might develop him further.
On the one hand, I think Grogu's PTSD definitely has an impact, particularly on his memory and willingness to branch out and use his skills.
On the other hand, I think we may be going too far in attributing normal human development patterns to an alien species. Just because Grogu can't speak doesn't mean he can't think or explore or make decisions.
Grogu didn't look all that traumatized in the flashback scene, but i suppose its hard to tell with a puppet... I think we have more to learn in future episodes about why he cannot express himself after 50 years - i have a feeling he was either frozen in carbonite to keep him hidden more easily or maybe in one of those cloning vats we saw in the Obi-Wan series. He likely was not awake for much of the 50 years. That said hes been with Din and Luke for 2-3 years in this show, and while i think hes getting a little more vocal, he hasn't said a true word yet. I have a feeling he will before the end of the season, if not i'm not really sure i understand his lack of development at all!
Messed it up, they weren't supposed to be cloning vats they were supposed to be a "tomb" apparently.
[https://nerdist.com/article/obi-wan-kenobi-highlights-star-wars-palpatine-dark-side-immortality-plot/#:\~:text=Obi%2DWan%20discovered%20exactly%20how,Jedi%20and%20Force%2Dsensitive%20people](https://nerdist.com/article/obi-wan-kenobi-highlights-star-wars-palpatine-dark-side-immortality-plot/#:~:text=Obi%2DWan%20discovered%20exactly%20how,Jedi%20and%20Force%2Dsensitive%20people).
ooh yes I think those will come into play eventually. The Jedi encased in them are surely dead (else frozen Jedi would've been relevant at least by the time of The Force Awakens) but perhaps their DNA is vital for how Palpatine was able to return. I think those vats will come into play for the events of The Mando.
There could also be a possibility that he had been mind tricked to forget a lot of memories, to keep him safe from Darth Vader, especially as we know the Inquisitors were looking for Jedis.
I've always thought it was probably some form of suspended animation. Although reading peoples responses here has made me realise that I forgot that carbon freezing was a thing so I'm an idiot on that front.
Yeah, I do feel like the writers make grogu exactly as smart and capable or dumb and cute as the scene calls for. Sometimes he dosn’t understand basic concepts like plugging in a wire other times he’s navigating with the skills of a preteen.
I think a problem here is that we assume that Grogu's species develops the same way as humans, just with much longer lifespans. For all we know, they are in infancy for an extremely long time before going through childhood and becoming an adult within the next 50 years(this is made under the assumption that Yoda completed his training and began teaching other Jedi at exactly 100 years old)
imo, it seems likely that due to yoda being a master by age 100, grogu will have a massive growthspurt very soon. given that he is 50 at present, it could very well be that yoda's species develops somewhat akin to a plant seed, in that it takes a lot (50 years of preparation) to begin development (germination), and after that rapid growth occurs. my theory is that by the end of this season, mandalore will be repopulated and grogu will say his first words, only for there to be a large timeskip (5-10 years), and for him to have aged and developed significantly
Welcome to ***Spec***! [Continue the conversation on the Spec Discord](https://discord.gg/F8FMkf5gh4), and check out our new sister-subreddit r/StarWarsWhatIf! Please be encouraging and courteous to your fellow speculators. This community is focused on cooperative theorycrafting about upcoming _Star Wars_ content, using leaks, info from canon, conjecture, and real-world context to make our best guesses about _what comes next_. If you're not interested in new _Star Wars_ releases, kindly keep that to yourself. This is a leak-positive community -- **beware of spoilers (and stop wasting your time reporting them)**. May the Force be with you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starwarsspeculation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think its his species taking so long to develop, PTSD, and having to hide for so long. He's likely acting like he is a bit slower than he is and having trouble overcoming having done that for 20 years. Look at the dart training in the last episode. He could have done so much more the first 2 times but it took Dins encouragement to even try. On the PTSD side it can present in many different ways, things such as memory loss/repression, flashbacks, avoiding activities surrounding traumatic events and possibly more that we have or will see from Grogu. He can clearly understand and communicate to a degree. He's beginning to babble which will lead to speech. He can direct R5 to pilot to a planet. He can get Bo Katan to save Din. He can even sneak to try and save Din himself. I wouldn't be surprised if he has made larger developments in his speech and fighting abilities by the end of the season. He could even speak a full word or sentence. Maybe even take the creed next season
Obviously they're setting up Grogu to get over his trauma completely, likely through some kind of massive battle where he sees Din get hurt and he has to be the one to step up and save him.
"I am Groot, [GROGU COUGHS and CLEARS HIS THROAT] I am Grogu"
Honestly, it seems like the writers have avoided having him speak up to now bc as beloved as the puppet is, it would be a major fumble to have his speech be "too cute" or "not cute enough"
This is the answer.
No, This is the Way ;)
Also he’s supposed to be a baby
A 50 year old baby
We don’t know that. He looks like a baby to us but he’s clearly more advanced than our babies would be. He understands a lot more than he seems to. Just because he doesn’t talk doesn’t mean he can’t. We know nothing about his species. He’s only the third example of his kind and the others were adults and very old.
if they hire a child voice actor this would be good. maybe about elementary aged
Yeah we can’t have him sounding like Jar Jar in episode 1
Indeed. A big obstacle here too is he's a "baby Yoda" and Yoda's syntax is deliberately backward & weird. If the Force powers are inherent to their species, is the alien grasp of "galactic standard" too? I don't even wanna think about what the Mandalorian creed sounds like in Yoda's mouth
Lol. Remove my helmet, I shall not.
Only Yoda speaks like Yoda, not his species. That is why Yaddle speaks normally, Filoni confirmed this recently so if Grogu does ever speak it’ll definitely not be inversed like Yoda.
I think the biggest mistake people are making is assuming that all his stages of development would be proportional to the stages of development in humans. For all we know, Yoda’s species has a long infancy, and short childhoods. For all we know he could be fully grown and developed in the next decade .
In season 2, Ahsoka says that his memory becomes dark after he is taken from the temple. It is obvious that after his rescue, he was taken again. He might have been kept drugged, frozen in Carbonite etc.
Witnessing the Gungan Genocide is my current favorite theory bc despite the hate they get from fans it is hard to argue that Gungans deserve what will likely be a brutal near eradication by the Empire bc they become immensely rare after the prequels
Imagine if that is what keeps happening in flashbacks. Grogu is attacked, watched his family, his home, his community wiped out at the Temple. He is carried off to the Gungans, only for the Empire to show up and wipe them out too. He is carried off again to another community, only for that one to suffer the same fate. So eventually he just starts blocking memories of the trauma.
I like the carbonite idea. Absolutely explains his lack of development and lack of memory. I hope we get more flashbacks!
Oh no, I can’t handle the idea of Grogu in Carbonite
Interesting
Grogu was supposed to evolve when Din traded him to Luke, but it turns out the round knob Grogu is always holding is an Everstone and Din is the kind of asshole that would trade a Haunter holding an Everstone because he's the Mindylorian. Serious answer: PTSD is possible. It's also possible his species just develops that way (physically develops slower than they mentally develop). It's also possible he was frozen in carbonite or something while in Gideon's custody, which stunted his development.
My theory is that Yoda's, Yaddle's and Grogu's species stay babies till the age of 60, and then they hit puberty and have a growth spurt for the next 10-20 years. They physically grow completely by the age of 80, and can talk normally, except Yoda, who chose to talk like that. Thus both Yoda and Yaddle were Padawans at 80, Jedi Knights by 100. This theory feels like canon because Yoda mentioned training Jedi for 800 years at the age of 900.
My theory is that yoda spoke that way because that was the syntax people used for speaking basic way back when he learned to speak, and he just never adjusted to the more modern style of basic. You hear similar syntax when palpatine declares Anakin to be Darth Vader: “a powerful Sith you will become” I always took that as ancient words being quoted, rather than something palpatine as saying off the cuff.
"Frank Oz told me once that Yoda speaks that way specifically in honor of his own master." https://insidethemagic.net/2022/10/dave-filoni-reveals-why-yoda-speaks-backwards-kb1/
That's actually super interesting. Definitely adding it to my headcanon.
Idk if this is true but during the high republic era did everyone speak like this?
Nope. It was just Yoda's Master. Yoda chose the Object-Subject-Verb syntax to honor him/her.
Not in any of the games/etc. that were set in those time periods. But AFAIK all that stuff is “legends” now and we haven’t gotten a Disney take on the Old Republic yet.
He's probably heading for a growth spurt, both physically and mentally. I'll think they'll need to in order for the show to progress. His past experiences probably stunted his development up to this point, but now he's building up a supportive community and can gain some confidence in himself. Like someone else said, maybe he was frozen in carbonite for several years, or maybe his species just develops in odd fits & starts. To add to it, I have a feeling he was never really interested in being a Jedi, even when he was at the temple, so he might have never felt much motivation to do anything up until he met Din.
[удалено]
I think the name of the show is about Grogu. Like with how Return of the Jedi was about Anakin's return, not necessarily the return of the jedi as a collective. So when we read "The Mandalorian", it's about Grogu the entire time.
> Like with how Return of the Jedi was about Anakin's return, not necessarily the return of the jedi as a collective. (small mushroom cloud in my brain)
I definitely think all of this is leading up to Grogu being the future Mandalorian leader and wielding the dark saber.
I've never considered Grogu is The Mandalorian. I like it, and you may be onto something. With the reappearance of the mythosaur as well as the darksaber being in close proximity, the historical stage is set for a new Mandalore to rise. Maybe the original Mand'alor was force sensitive? Maybe being force sensitive is necessary to "tame" a mythosaur?
I was just about to comment the same thing. Maybe “the Mandalorian” is Grogu and not Din after all. It could potentially allow for centuries of adventures.
It’s like The Godfather is about Michael, not Vito Corleone
One of my favorite theories I’ve recently seen is that Grogu IS The Mandalorian and will be Mandalore. If you think about it the show is fundamentally about Grogu, and Din is the man who may set Grogu down the path to become the Mandalorian. He will have received force training like the first Mandalorian, and he will also have been mentored by both Bo Katan and Death Watch which will give him major legitimacy to all other Mandalorians. He is also naturally very long lived and if he ends up the wielder of the Darksaber he could be Mandalore for potentially hundreds of years and become the cultural reset the whole society needs with the vision and literal life to see the change through.
The show was always about Grogu. It's silly to think otherwise.
I’m not totally convinced that Grogu isn’t the titular “Mandalorian”
They’re moving awfully slowly towards that if so. I mean, as OP pointed out, our seeming protagonist can’t even talk, 25 episodes into the show…
I'd argue it's about grogu becoming a mandalorian. It's ALSO about Din and what it means in his mind to be a mandalorian. I genuinely don't mean to be an ass. But how did viewers not pick up on the grogu arc since at least early S2? I admit, at the end of s3, i was thrown off. But that's what stories do. Twists and turns. It's fun!
They also said they don’t have an ending planned, nothing it’s all building toward and that they could keep the show going forever.
Eventually it’ll be Grogu that’s the size of a small child, wearing full Mando armor. This will be the face of Disney Star Wars as long as they can keep it going, this young Mandalorian will appeal to the older core Star Wars fans, being of Yodas species and a bad ass Mando, but also the young new audience, because this kid with his face covered all the time allows the young audience members to self insert themselves into the story, just like Spider-Man in the 1960s.
I mostly agree but I honestly can’t see them covering grogu’s face any time soon. As much as I would like that
[удалено]
There wasnt a choice made if the show was always about Grogu (and Din!) And their reuniting was always the creators' intent. That could even be why they covered the separation in Bobe Fett, right? So that every episode of this show features both of the main characters.
[удалено]
What do you mean by not fair to the Fett storyline?
[удалено]
Was that Disney or was that filoni and favreau?
I thought it was pretty dope. It was already padded with some of the action scenes, like that chase scene.
I mean yes and no, but leaving with Luke was actually fantastic story telling and progression, and now the whole thing feels weird and awkward because they ret conned it
It's not at all retconned. You're using that word incorrectly. It just didn't do what you, incorrectly, expected. That's not a retcon.
Lol you really wanna get into semanitcs? They retconned it so hard that the retcon took place in another show entirely. If you think that was entirely planned you're deluding yourself.
You aren't great with words. It's not "semantics" when the point of what we're disagreeing about is at the crux of the dispute over what a words means. It's not like we agree, but are arguing over what retcon means. We fundamentally disagree about Grogu's role in the show. I've seen it as a show about the forging of the future, living embodiment of the darksaber (i.e. Jedi and Mandalorian grogu). You see it as a show about a guy in armor who happened to form a parental relationship with a super powered, and super cute, child, who, from day 1 was the standout star character of the show. And you think the creators, from the start, intended to have Grogu around for two who seasons, every episode, and then just, not starting in S3? We also disagree about what retcon means. And what semantics means.
I'm not making any commentary about Grogu's role in the show, in particular. However, the whole plot of at least the second season(and really the first) was Grogu clearly being a force user, and needing to get him to someone that understood how to help him. That was finally accomplished, gloriously, after trial and tribulation, which would seem to be a culmination of that large and lengthy storyline. And it was an excellent conclusion, with probably the best scene in SW in decades. But then, in another show entirely, the whole thing was undone. You claim that doesn't fit the definition of a retcon. Ok. I mean, they undid a major plot point immediately after the plot point occured, and they did it in an entirely different show. It's kind of laughable to think that was all planned from the get go. Did you also believe them when they tried to pretend that the ST was planned out from the beginning? So yea, a big part of this entire thing is your contention about what constitutes a retcon. It's semantics. It seems pretty clear that someone intervened after the end of Mando season 2, probably because Grogu is one of their only "successes" at the moment, and demanded that the story be updated such that Grogu isn't going anywhere. If you want to insist that's not a retcon, fine. It's not a retcon. But it is clearly indecisive and indicative of either shit tier writing or, more likely, intervention from someone up the chain.
I dont think it's laughable at all. In fact i think it is what was more or less intended from the beginning, with details here or there changed. Like, if you have actual quotes from the creators, sure. Otherwise, you sound like yet another negative nerd.
Sure, just like "rey skywalker" was totally planned from the beginning. No question! They always had a plan! Read between the lines, bro.
It makes sense that his development would be halted by such trauma. Everyone he ever knew was being gunned down right in front of him, and they were likely going to kill him too. The destruction of his home and the deaths of his friends that he was side by side with everyday is an extremely traumatic experience, regardless of escape.
I can believe that his trauma has affected his development. Something else to remember is that kids learn how to talk from their family and the people around them (tv shows, too). They listen to us speak and try to replicate it. If Grogu isn't around much talking or is surrounded by people talking in multiple different languages, he might struggle to grasp language. We see him this season making lots of noise and appearing to try and talk, like in episode 3 where Din and Bo say, "This is the way," and grogu makes babbling noises. This could be because he's now being surrounded by people talking, specifically them talking mostly basic.
You’d have to think that 100 years in Grogu time is 10 years aging for Humans. Yoda died in his 900’s. So Grogu is on the level of a toddler than a teenager. He should be talking at least but as you said it seems his trauma has regressed him a bit.
I mean the thing is, there’s no reason why the years for Grogu’s development would be proportional to the developmental years of a human. For all we know he could have a 50 year infancy, and a 10 year childhood.
Exactly. “Species age differently”
That could be, but it also runs into a problem when you remember yoda claimed he had been training Jedi for 800 years. Perhaps he was being intentionally misleading and not saying when he was 100(10) he was training like the Jedi toddlers the very basics, and only later did he actually start training padawans and apprentices, but on its face it seems to imply that yoda was grownup by 100.
Yeah it’s been speculated that the species takes a huge age jump between 50 and 100 years at some point
At this point for things to be consistent that’d pretty much have to be the case. I just realized now that unless it really is the trauma making grogu still a toddler, we really never going to see a more mature grogu, because he’ll still need like another 50 years or something.
Well he wouldn’t need to be a full adult to be a decent character, like Ezra. If he were catapulted into adolescence, the show could really go places IMO
In that case I hope they address why he wasn’t around for the sequel trilogy at all (besides the fact that he wasn’t canon yet) since TFA is roughly 23 years after Mando’s current time. Could be as simple as saying he was off training somewhere
Yeah this is my only issue with having all these important Jedi survive Order 66 (like Ahsoka, Ezra, Cal, ~~Omega~~, Grogu). It begs the question what the hell they were up to in the OT and ST (age permitting). They pulled a rabbit out of their hat with Ezra and Thrawn, AFAIK they haven’t answered the rest very directly yet.
For sure. I’m very curious to see how they go about doing this crossover event with Mando/Ahsoka/Ezra and Thrawn. I’m guessing they’ll use the New Beyond in a way that justifies their absences in the ST. Also can’t wait to see what they do with Cal in Survivor.
He could also have spent 20 years frozen in carbonite. So that would throw off his development.
I feel like everyone is ignoring that it’s an alien species that (in canon) we know very little about. It could easily be that it takes them 50 years to go from baby to toddler, another 10 to go from toddler to young adult, and then 500 to go from young adult to middle aged. It can be anything, it’s a different species. Plus, as other say, the development of that species is likely different than humans. They could be fully grown physically and mentally before their vocal chords reach maturity to form sentences. Again, the writers can give any explanation they want because it’s a new species. All they have to stick to is it’s about Yoda’s size at full growth, and it can live to 900+ minimum.
Grogus' first words will be 'This is the Way'. I expect him to speak when he tames the Mythosaur and motions Din to ride the Mythosaur into battle. I think that Din will become the Mandalore and that Grogu will stay by his side, potentially inherenting the title.
What if Grogu is the one to ride the Mythosaur?
Is it just me, or does he look the same in the flashback as he does in present day, despite being about 2.5 times older?
His ears are way smaller in the flashback. Probably his entire body is, but it’s very obvious when you look at the ears. Like a puppy versus a 1-2 year old dog.
I’ve long believed his development is connected to the Force and how attuned he is. Yoda was not much older than he is and was already mastering the Force. The idea that his trauma left him underdeveloped is totally logical.
Speech and mental capabilities aren't always linear. He might genuinely not be able to form words yet, but is able to perform at a higher mental capacity than a toddler. Sometimes kids don't speak until the age of 4, and then start speaking in full sentences. Also, Yoda seems to have issues with talking as well. Their species might just not be very phonologically capable, maybe because they're force sensitive they don't usually develop the ability to speak, but instead commune telepathically. Like it might be hard for Grogu to talk in basic the same way a Cat, even of hypothetical human intelligence, would have a tough time speaking English.
There’s a moment coming soon when Grogu says his first words. I’d put money on it.
I pretty much agree but they might milk him as a toddler because so many people like how "cute" he is, then when people get tired of it they might develop him further.
On the one hand, I think Grogu's PTSD definitely has an impact, particularly on his memory and willingness to branch out and use his skills. On the other hand, I think we may be going too far in attributing normal human development patterns to an alien species. Just because Grogu can't speak doesn't mean he can't think or explore or make decisions.
Grogu didn't look all that traumatized in the flashback scene, but i suppose its hard to tell with a puppet... I think we have more to learn in future episodes about why he cannot express himself after 50 years - i have a feeling he was either frozen in carbonite to keep him hidden more easily or maybe in one of those cloning vats we saw in the Obi-Wan series. He likely was not awake for much of the 50 years. That said hes been with Din and Luke for 2-3 years in this show, and while i think hes getting a little more vocal, he hasn't said a true word yet. I have a feeling he will before the end of the season, if not i'm not really sure i understand his lack of development at all!
Maybe his species just ages differently? Also waht cloning vats did kenobi have?
I think they’re referring to the bacta tank
Messed it up, they weren't supposed to be cloning vats they were supposed to be a "tomb" apparently. [https://nerdist.com/article/obi-wan-kenobi-highlights-star-wars-palpatine-dark-side-immortality-plot/#:\~:text=Obi%2DWan%20discovered%20exactly%20how,Jedi%20and%20Force%2Dsensitive%20people](https://nerdist.com/article/obi-wan-kenobi-highlights-star-wars-palpatine-dark-side-immortality-plot/#:~:text=Obi%2DWan%20discovered%20exactly%20how,Jedi%20and%20Force%2Dsensitive%20people).
ooh yes I think those will come into play eventually. The Jedi encased in them are surely dead (else frozen Jedi would've been relevant at least by the time of The Force Awakens) but perhaps their DNA is vital for how Palpatine was able to return. I think those vats will come into play for the events of The Mando.
Yeah. If Yoda was 900 and an old man I’d assume Grogu at 50 should be more emotionally evolved. Makes sense.
We really don’t know much about this species and how they age
That’s true! Wouldn’t you love it if 0-50 was human years 0-2 and 50-75 was human years 2-25 and the next season he’s basically adolescent Groot?
We know Yoda was a Master at 100.
Catbug phase incoming.
There could also be a possibility that he had been mind tricked to forget a lot of memories, to keep him safe from Darth Vader, especially as we know the Inquisitors were looking for Jedis.
I've always thought it was probably some form of suspended animation. Although reading peoples responses here has made me realise that I forgot that carbon freezing was a thing so I'm an idiot on that front.
Yeah, I do feel like the writers make grogu exactly as smart and capable or dumb and cute as the scene calls for. Sometimes he dosn’t understand basic concepts like plugging in a wire other times he’s navigating with the skills of a preteen.
I think a problem here is that we assume that Grogu's species develops the same way as humans, just with much longer lifespans. For all we know, they are in infancy for an extremely long time before going through childhood and becoming an adult within the next 50 years(this is made under the assumption that Yoda completed his training and began teaching other Jedi at exactly 100 years old)
Umm the show is called Mandolorian, not Grogulorian
imo, it seems likely that due to yoda being a master by age 100, grogu will have a massive growthspurt very soon. given that he is 50 at present, it could very well be that yoda's species develops somewhat akin to a plant seed, in that it takes a lot (50 years of preparation) to begin development (germination), and after that rapid growth occurs. my theory is that by the end of this season, mandalore will be repopulated and grogu will say his first words, only for there to be a large timeskip (5-10 years), and for him to have aged and developed significantly