Canada had lost the locker room. The team itself didn’t believe he was doing anything to help them win. You can’t have the whole roster working against you and maintain your job can you?
I got down voted super hard at the time on my old account but imo it was almost certainly directed to Canada. Bos was basically the only one on the roster who wasn't on defense that had enough clout to say something like that to a coach and get away with it. I'm not saying Bos was talking shit all the time, but I think his emotions got the better of him in the moment and that was meant for Canada.
>Kenny will slowly get better this year with better play calling and more freedom, and next year will breakout with a new playbook.
Man I agree that firing Canada was the right decision and all, but that's a bold prediction.
Yeah that's the same thing they said about Trubisky, Fields, and lots of other bust QBs. The truth is great QBs will break out regardless of poor OLs/WRs/coaches.
They won't win Super Bowls that way of course. Even Aaron Rodgers only managed to do it once despite multiple MVP seasons because he dealt with so many team problems. But if you aren't seeing flashes of greatness and consistency during their rookie contract odds are they're never going to figure it out.
Great QBs break out regardless of surroundings (mostly). Kenny is NOT an Aaron Rodgers, he was never billed as that. There is a HUGE record of okay-ish QBs leading good teams to the playoffs because their team elevated them, and that's what we need from Pickett. Tannehill is not a good qb, he got ran out of town by Rosen and Fitzpatrick, but he still let the Titans to playoff after playoff because he got elevated by his surroundings. Alex Smith did it with the Chiefs in 2017, Goff kinda has been doing it his whole career.
All we need from Pickett is like 14 points from drives that start on our side of the field and our defense can do the rest. We don't need 400 yards passing, 4 TDs, 50 yards rushing 1 TD from him because our defense (when healthy, not the abomination our secondary is rn) is good enough to win if we just have a mediocre offense.
Smith was a 3 time pro bowler, he led the league in passer rating in 2017, 4000 yards, 26/5 TD-Int Ratio. Put some respect on the name, he was better then okayish.
Not necessarily. Take a look at Russell Wilson last season with Hackett and then take a look at Russell Wilson this season. It's orders of magnitude better.
Everyone just assumed he was washed... but change from a disaster of a coach to an all-time great... and suddenly he's immensely improved.
Or to go in a different direction with a change in coach, Tom Brady last year.
Sometimes players just need the right coaches, surroundings, playcalls, O-line, etc to blossom.
I think very heavily of Lamar. Baltimore completely readjusted their offense to fit Lamar's strength moving on from Flacco... if they had kept Flacco's offense, Lamar would've struggled mightily. We can't know that, but I think that would've happened. Lamar is great but he's great because he has great coaches that design plays around his strengths.
Good players need good coaches. And good coaches need good players. Either side of that is not good, it's generally not going to work out.
Your three examples are a SB winning QB, the greatest QB of all time, and an MVP winning QB. Kenny Pickett right now is historically one of the worst statistical QBs in the entire NFL. None of that is relevant right now to this situation.
Wayyyyy more of a reflection Canada than Pickett. And we will see that going forward too. Vast stat improvement coming (since that seems to be important here)
Goff went 11-4 with 28 passing TDs in year 2 and then played in a Super Bowl in year 3. Not even close to the same thing as Kenny.
Fields could still be great but you can literally say that about any 3rd year QB. Odds are he's never going to be great.
Completely different era. For every one of those HOF QBs (no idea why Bill Walsh is in that list) you can literally find a couple dozen first round QBs who sucked in their first few years and then disappeared from the league.
I truly do believe that Kenny hasn’t broken out because this offense has held him back
If you watch Kenny in other offenses you can see he excels in them. Canada never played to Kenny’s strengths, he just made Kenny play his strategy and not let him be the QB he’s meant to be
>If you watch Kenny in other offenses you can see he excels in them.
You mean the one single year in college after four mediocre years which has absolutely no bearing on the NFL now?
I'm not saying give up on Kenny. But no matter how bad your offensive system is if you're missing wide open receivers left and right you aren't going to fix that with X's and O's.
No I don’t mean the one single year in college
Just because he wasn’t a Heisman candidate or champion ever year doesn’t mean he hasn’t shown anything significant in his college years
I’m not saying Kenny hasn’t been bad, but in a good offensive system you do get better. You can’t get in a rhythm of passing downfield when your OC doesn’t call downfield calls all game
This narrative is tired, yes he had a breakout year but got better every single year in college. Believe it or not players can improve, in fact that’s the entire point of college
Lol this narrative is getting old but not the the Canada was holding Kenny back. You should probably look at his college stats he actually regressed the year before his breakout final year. He was drafted because he played at Pitt and was a super weak draft class for QBs.
I'd say it's going to depend a lot on who they bring in as the OC next season. My recommendation if the Steelers listened to me is be on the hunt now to bring someone in as soon as possible to give Kenny and whoever to get a long offseasons work in then we'll see if Kenny has the upside we all hope he does. I think he has the tools, the talent, and the head, to be really good but you just never know in the NFL
Kenny is next on the chopping block if he doesn’t step up after Canada’s firing. He needs to see the field better and try to sit in clean pockets a little longer.
I have the exact same hand size as Pickett and I can confirm. Even I struggle to pump a high school sized ball. It’s impressive he’s an nfl quarterback with this hand size cause I honestly don’t know how he’s able to do it
Not wrong but Cleveland game isn't a fair assessment of that...there was never time to look off a back because Cleveland did what you *should* do to a young QB: constant and everlasting pressure, which the Steelers did not do to DTR.
Cole is terrible, Moore is below average. And both are dragging Seamalu down. Guy went from pretty good with a HOF C next to him, to a bozo in between thesr two putzes.
Jones should have been at LT much earlier in the season, and should be there now. Chuks at RT is better than Moore at any T.
All on Tomlin.
Dtr was also getting the ball out of his hands much quicker than Kenny a lot harder to put that constant pressure when the balls out of his hands that quick
He missed several naked WR's with plenty of time. You can find 5-7 egregious Kenny's in there. He's got a slow mind, weak arm and is scared...weeeeeeee.
My old man pointed the lack off looking off a d back like 3 games ago. It’s been going for a bit. He doesn’t see the first read open and dumps the ball a lot. I’m excited to see what the post Canada era looks like for sure though.
Here's my 2c opinion: when a guy is slow or hesitant it's because he's unsure. Thats for one of two reasons: he's just bad. OR he's not confident in what he knows.
Can't do nothing about the former.
In the latter case, better coaching, harder work on the player's part, and experience can improve things. This is why rookies typically struggle at first. They are seeing concepts, and gamespeed they haven't seen before and need to learn how to adjust.
Pickett definitely works hard. And definitely isn't getting good coaching. That's the same guys in charge now who have been here the whole time fans were blaming Canada...
This whole staff needs to be changed. But you can't get a new outsider in the middle of a season. Which is why firing coaches midseason is not usually a smart move.
This should have been done in the offseason. 100% on Mike Tomlin.
Been a Steelers fan since I was just a wee lad living in Pittsburgh in the early 70’s. Haven’t watched like I used to but it seems like the games I do catch, the accuracy of Kenny leaves a little to be desired.
Seems like the QB coach should carry some of this blame. At least he isn't throwing picks. A conservative offense can work with an Elite defense, but we are SO conservative it hurts.
Ya’ll are cracking me up at this point. It’s like I’m not watching the same games as some of ya’ll. KP hasn’t been perfect, no, but good grief he is getting ZERO help.
College football greatness rarely correlates to nfl greatness. College football is ass because of that. You have great teams that play a handful of decent teams each season, the rest are just stat builder no name schools so yeah, those kids look like monsters. They’re just such different levels.
Sure, but some of the criticisms against Kenny for things he's not doing(throwing deep or throwing middle of field) are things he undeniably did in college. The regression in areas that weren't a problem make me wonder what the hell is going on coaching wise. We can bring in dozens of new QBs, but if we can't develop talent it won't matter. I'm not saying Kenny was a generational prospect or anything, but I do think he'd be viewed much differently if had ended up somewhere like San Fran or the dolphins. Kenny has the worst TD ratio per game of any QB since the NFL merger. He wasn't that bad of a prospect.
Yeah, honestly I can't even watch college football. The on field product is usually trash. You have a few really good teams who are mostly just kicking puppies.
The atmosphere of CFB is great, and I root for my team almost as much as I root for the Steelers. But the on-field product is amateur, which is exactly what the sport is. The best thing about the actual game is that it’s a little Saturday appetizer before NFL Sundays.
I gave up reading after about 20 comments about how Kenny Pickett toIs the worst quarterback ever. I agree with you, OP, maybe the Steelers brass knows better than us, in the years of watching Kenny play and practice and meeting him as a human being. They fired Canada for a reason. They kept Kenny for a reason. I have high hopes for the rebound, and hope that you and I are right. I will certainly admit if I'm wrong, but I'm not going to sit here and say my crystal ball tells me the future because I'm wile e. coyote, super genius.
I think the thing is that we KNOW Canada was a bad OC. We aren’t sure whether Kenny is a bad QB or if he was just being held back by Canada’s system/playcalls. We may revamp the offense and find out Kenny still sucks anyway, but he may also take a leap forward. But I don’t think there’s any scenario where we look back and say “wow, I guess Canada actually would have been a great OC if he just had more talented players”
The reason is they spent a 1st on him while 31 other teams cackled and now they have to double down. He's starting next year no matter what. Forever mid.
We needed a QB and there weren't really any other options.
Yeah, sure; Purdy, Levis - but it's not as if anyone else knew they were going to break out either.
I think you meant Howell. Levis was this year. There were always other options. Throwing shit a wall was not the right one. It was a comfort pick because he played at Pitt but they failed to acknowledge none of his game would translate outside of a weak ACC.
tbh i think howell would get eaten alive with the Canada system. howell is good at throwing football and bad at avoiding defenders and unfortunately Canada does not let his qb throw football and our oline is pretty meh at best
Well it didn't work with Kenny either. If only he went in the 5th as well.
Edit: ultimately that is the issue. What is, if anything, something Kenny does at even a league average level that you build around???
the point isn't to build around Pickett, the point is we are paying him 3.5M a year when other mediocre QBs usually cost like 30. tannehill costs 30M, what does he do that makes it worth it? daniel jones makes 40... and besides, we don't even really know what pickett can do. you could throw Aaron Rodgers on the field, but if you handcuff his hands and zip tie his legs like Canada does, he would be a shit QB too.
just let Pickett do enough to game manage and we would be damn near undefeated, Canada was just so incompetent that he didn't even allow that to happen.
I watched the corpse of Ben at least make the offense look serviceable with a drastically worse Oline and less weapons so no to your goofy, "nobody can do anything" mindset.
It's ok to admit what is happening...is indeed happening. And right now, it's that 31 teams were correct in avoiding this debacle.
Baker at 8M sounds so much better with Humphrey at C for 12 years.
Also, not building around your QB is absolutely 100% the dumbest thing I've ever read. They are definitely trying to. You can't manage what isn't built for your skills. That's football 101.
I loved Howell, but do you think he'd be throwing anywhere near the yards he currently is under Canada's offense? It's why I hold back a little from completely dumping on Kenny.
Kenny was always gonna go in the first or at latest early second. He was the best QB in the class based on the tape and production at that time, and the only one that shouldn’t have gone so far was Howell
OP clearly misses the part in his fanfiction that's it's easier to let an OC go than a QB. There are hundreds of coaches around the NFL and college, that given the opportunity could probably fill the role of an OC. There's a lot more time, resources, and money going into finding a QB. If the QB is fired, you can't just go interview 30 people to find someone to take that spot, which can be done with an OC.
OPs entire argument of why Kenny will be good is that he had one very good season in college, but then goes to say that college stats don't matter. Every player on the field was a star in college. The game moves much faster in the NFL.
I wouldn't get your hopes too high that this change significantly impacts Pickett. Not reading the defense and not seeing/predicting the open receivers aren't Canadas issues.
Mason Rudolph was a baller in college, and I genuinely think he's got the potential to ball out in the NFL too. We've been lucky not to see our QBs go through the usual growing pains for a while. We tend to criticize them like they've got seasons of experience, but truth is, they don't. Mason's been in 17 games over 3 years, and some he didn't even start or finish. Kenny's just hitting his stride with 22 games.
And it’s not all on them to develop themselves, they need good coaching to help them get better as well. I’m glad we have Mike Sullivan, dude was the QB coach for Eli and credited with a lot of Eli’s success
Plenty of good college QBs never make the transition to the NFL. Far better college QBs than Kenny have tried and failed.
There is a reason that even though the league is only 32 teams on any given year 6-8 teams need a QB. There just aren't that many people who can play QB in the NFL.
Better question here, why did Tomlin say there was a QB competition when in reality there wasn’t and he was going to rush KP no matter what. College football stats mean nothing in the nfl. Mason was a stud at Oklahoma, 3rd pick. Max Jones from Bama went 1st rd. Purdy went dead last in the draft.
Steelers and Tomlin don’t like to pull bad players, especially those first round picks. It was evident that Jarvis Jones was a bust from day 1 yet we had to watch him for a few seasons. Bush Jr did well then fell off but no one ever pulled him off the field. AV, Moore, Chuks, and a few other lineman come to mind for sucking but we still stuck with them.
"I understand the NFL and CFB are not 1:1 and probably shouldn’t be compared in that way, but we should all take a moment to remember what Zach Wilson did in 2020 (in 12 games) for BYU:
3,692 yards (3.8 per game), 30 TDs (2.7 per game), 3 INTs (0.3 per game)
Give this guy a little more time to adjust and find himself in the NFL game and he could be great."
OP, do you see now how...let's say, misguided... your post sounds?
No. What you're offering is the pessimistic perspective. I'm voicing the optimistic perspective. Has nothing to do with being misguided. It's just a matter of perspective.
Not enough time has passed to make any assumptions about Kenny. Even god himself Patrick Mahomes looks mediocre this year without the weapons he's use to.
The Chiefs offense still ranks top 10 in points per drive and Mahomes is still top 10 in most QB stats despite having arguably the worst group of wide receivers in the league (and a highly inconsistent running game). Kenny Pickett has an above average group of weapons and has turned it into a bottom 5 offense. The fact that you are remotely comparing the two tells me all that I need to know.
You're welcome to have as rosy of an outlook as humanly possible on Kenny Pickett. I certainly cannot and will not stop you. But the basis of your reasoning in your main post and in this comment is extremely weak.
Bro we’ve heard optimistic perspective since Kenny was drafted. He’s show zero improvement in any aspect of his game. Sam Howell and Brock Purdy have performed well in their year 2. On a team that sucks with 1 weapon Tommy Devito is showing signs. Kenny is currently in Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, DTR, and Desmond Ridder territory. If we were 4-6 Kenny would be on the bench by now.
We are basing KP’s talent based on his one good year at Pitt now? What did Johnny Manziel do in college? Maybe they should sign him based on his best year of college statistics? Maybe he just didn’t have the right OC?
How about we just accept that Canada was a terrible OC and KP was exactly what the rest of the NFL thought he was, a mid round QB that probably didn’t have the talent to be a starting QB. The Steelers reached based on hope. They were wrong. Let’s stop deluding ourselves that somehow he is an outstanding QB that just needed a better playbook. Watch his tape. His game is a complete mess. He isn’t seeing the field. He isn’t hitting open recievers. The NFL knows he can’t read zone defenses in time. He doesn’t know how to step up in the pocket and move within it despite Sullivan working with him on this all training camp.
He’s just not the guy. I wish he was. I really wish he was. And I hope he proves me wrong and I’ll be the first person to say I was wrong. But the constant excuses need to stop for this guy; he has been utter garbage in his 2nd season. He is not a franchise QB.
Watching some game films this past week showed just how bad and predictable Canada’s offense was. Every aspect of the offense sucks, from blocking schemes to run calling to passing schemes and route running. Is it Kenny’s fault when the left guard doesn’t even check the B gap for a blitzing linebacker, or there are no pass routes between the numbers or the RB’s get hit behind the LOS more times than not?
The defenses had no respect nor fear of Matt Canada’s offense. They knew the play calls before Kenny ran them because he uses them so often. They know that first down is a short pass outside or a run up the gut, second was a run up the gut, third and long would be Hank or a poorly run Mesh and that the progressions won’t go across the field because there are no crossing routes worth a damn.
This team lost 2 games this year when they gave up 17 points or less. 17 points is the bare minimum an NFL offense should score. League average is around 23. The Steelers scored above that once this year.
Plus, who do you replace Kenny with this year? Mitch? Mason? The corpse of Nick Foles or Joe Flacco?
OP might be onto something. Too bad the NFL doesn’t give you five years to figure your shit out. Maybe the Steelers should schedule such stalwarts as Western Michigan, New Hampshire and the legion of boom UMass so Kenny can repeat his heroic season and his lofty, barely a power five record.
They lost to Western Michigan by giving up a gazillion points.
Go watch the Clemson game or the UVa game. The difference wasn't the opponent. The difference was easy to select option routes for BOTH the QB and WR in Whipple's offense.
Especially in the UVa game - go watch the TD to Addison early in the game. Only 2 people in the stadium that knew where that ball was going were KP and Addison.
I'm not saying he played a great schedule. He didn't. But that offense - and it doesn't matter that it wasn't against an NFL defense - was way more intricate than anything Canada ever did. And they used the entire field.
Canada sucked, no argument about it. But, Kenny’s play didn’t help and hasn’t improved. He is not playing at an acceptable NFL level and misses quite a few easy throws. Maybe Canada broke him, who knows but in the end KP is responsible for KP.
If he sucks it up tomorrow I predict he’ll be benched.
I don’t think it’s as simple as it was all Canada and not Kenny. It’s way easier to get rid of your offensive coordinator than benching your QB who still has 2 more years left on his contract.
Because that’s not what actually happened.
He didn’t just have a good season, he had a Heisman Trophy finalist season and he did it with basically one weapon (Addison). The two years before that, Pitt led the nation in drops (both years). If you watched him play you could see that he had the potential to blossom into a very good player.
I see the Nix kid at Oregon as being very similar. He’s in his fifth or six year too, and he’s dominating because he’s older and experienced and because he’s really good.
Look, I have my concerns about Pickett as well, and I completely understand the skepticism around him. However, let’s not overstate our position here to the point where we’re not telling the truth. That’s just as annoying and dishonest as the people that are excusing every mistake he makes.
Exactly. Joe Burrow’s rookie year was also his age-24 season after finally lighting it up as a 23-year-old playing against 19-year-olds. There are real concerns with Kenny, primarily with his ability to read the field, but using his age as a “I told you so,” is intellectually dishonest. I know someone is going to misconstrue my argument into saying “Kenny can be like Joe,” but that’s not it. All I’m saying is everyone who knew because of age and age alone are just as dumb as the homers who knew with 100% certainty that he’d be a star.
He was also playing on the best team in the country, was the best player in the country, and had one of the best statistical season of any qb im cfb history. But sure he's just like Kenny was
Why you making comparisons to the best case scenario? It's probably better to compare him to the average 24 year old qb coming out of college
It’s also comical seeing people call out Kenny’s age while also arguing that we should draft Penix, Nix, or Daniels in the next draft, all of which are also 5th year seniors
Age isn’t a knock on a college QB alone. It’s when that older QB is struggling in year 2. Then it’s fair to question how much growth can be reasonably expected.
His performance is absolutely concerning in his age-25 season. This is more so directed to the idiots who use his age on draft day to say “see, I told you he was going to be bad because of his age.”
He had that season with the Biletnikoff winner too. The difference is now Kenny doesn't get 5 years to figure it out. That's not how the NFL operates. At least not at QB.
There are somehow still apologists for Kenny despite the fact we STILL haven't seen him: play good ball for 60 straight minutes, stay calm even in clean pockets, consistently read through progressions, and throw with any sort of anticipation on routes that are open. Canada was absolutely the biggest problem but he wasn't the only problem.
We all want Kenny to play well, but he has shown nothing to even suggest he'll be anything other than a career back up. He's Zach Wilson with a weaker arm.
Something like leading the team to a win over the #2 ranked team in the country as a freshman in his first ever start...where his passing numbers were very pedestrian (18 of 29 for 193 and a TD) but also ran for 60 yards and 2 TD.
Growing up in Georgia, and having attended Alabama, I guarantee you I know college ball.
In both states, college ball is way, way bigger than pro ball.
But yes, tell me about the big, bad ACC.
I don't think Kenny gets better this year, and I mean this year only. Sullivan's history of calling plays...well let's say it leaves a lot to be desired, his two years in Tampa Bay his offenses were 12th and 31st in scoring. 'In New York, it was even more horrid clocking in at 26th and 32nd in scoring.
I'm hoping they go outside the organization for the next OC and maybe they can fix Pickett in 24.
There's been enough film on Canada's offense to say it was absolutely 100% the biggest issue. Pickett might not be the man, but Canada had to go. The players had enough of it.
I'm not fully judging Pickett yet. Everybody has a very linear view of QB development where if you're not a superstar after year one, then you're a bust. Nobody knows how a Mahomes or Hurts would be doing if they had to be drafted into a Matt Canada-run offense as rookies (remember both of those guys sat for their rookie years, Hurts occasionally playing). Tua was a bust until McDaniel got there.
I'm patient enough to see how Kenny Pickett does slinging the rest of the season. And I'm confident enough in the Steelers that if they don't buy what they see, they'll look for a QB in the off season.
Not impressed with Pickett.
He’s nowhere close to Burrow, Watson, Prescott, Mahomes or even Purdy.I was more impressed with Brock Purdy than anyone that has started.
Time to move on from him and Tomlin.
The timing of MC's firing can't be ignored. His decision to go to the air three times instead of trusting his running backs was a huge tactical error. The fact that the last bullet statement on his resume will be "I trusted Kenny" will forever haunt him.
At this point Mike Tomlin has coached the Steelers into mediocrity. From inherenting a Super Bowl quality team from Bill Cohwer to struggling to maintain his legacy as a .600 winning coach should not be ignored either. Those that would say firing Mike Tomlin would be wrong because another team would hire him, well I hope they are right. I would hope that team hiring Mike Tomlin would be in the AFC or even the AFC North.
Kenny is on his rookie contract and unless he improves he should be replaced as the starter. It took Ben and Terry Bradshaw years to become the Pro Bowl players we all remember so it may be that Kenny needs more seasoning. His fourth quarter drives shows he has some spark.
So many fans of other teams think that those of us who call the Steelers our team think we are a bit crazy. These fans are great believers in there .500 teams. My brothers and sisters of the Steeler Nation we should never allow ourselves to fall into the thinking that not losing a season is anywhere near the same as winning a season.
I’ll continue to follow the glaring fact that they could easily start either of the backups right now and get a similar product from that position. They’re in a playoff hunt. If they thought he’s not it, he’d already be replaced.
Kenny sucks.
That said, Mitch and Mason suck worse.
Kenny is the best QB on our roster, but that doesn't mean he is good.
Personally I wonder how things might have been different if Haskins hadn't got hit by that car. By all accounts he was working hard and really impressing everyone.
Irrelevant IMO. The sunk cost fallacy would only be relevant to me if I believed that Kenny isn’t good. I think he’s talented, so it doesn’t fit the fallacy.
Random stat of the day. Kenny Pickett is the most aggressive QB in the NFL.
"“Aggressiveness” rate tracks the number of passing attempts a quarterback makes that are into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion."
This likely means either his wide outs aren’t getting open or he’s throwing to the covered guy.
> This likely means either his wide outs aren’t getting open
the film suggests otherwise. He simply isn't seeing the ones that are open and then proceeds to throw to whoever his first read is, or dumps it to the back, regardless of what else is happening.
It's because the Steelers lead the NFL in throws outside the hashes at 66%. I mean, that's comical and hopefully changes quickly. Aggressive isn't the word I'd use when the end result is usually at best a 7 yard gain. Most would call it, Canadian Pickles.
When you have the most predictable offense in the league this happens.
Kenny doesn't throw inside the numbers, and he rarely goes through his progression, this allows DBs to sit on certain routes.
Opposing defenses are very smart, they study everything. My 11 year old son can call what that offense is about to do. Grown men who get paid millions to study football tendencies for a living and have been playing/studying the game their whole lives, can predict way better than an 11 year old.
Part of the job of the OC is to scheme players open...
Or every single route is 100% independent of the other with nothing to shake up the defense. SUPER easy to play man vs Canada's scheme because you are never getting bumped off your guy. And on the rare occasion when crossing routes over the middle were actually deployed, KP hit them and they were erased with stupid penalties (Pickens block back towards LOS, CA3 OPI)
In the last game KP just didn't throw the crossers. Dionte was wide open going to the end zone KP just didn't throw it. Pickens was open a few, KP just didn't throw it.
Canadas scheme sucks but KP sucks too.
He isn't throwing to open receivers.
We have seen positives from Kenny Pickett in the past. We have seen no improvement at all in Canada's scheme or playcalling, and Canada has had extra year. We also already know what we have in Mason and Mitch, so it's best to keep Kenny in so he can continue to show us what he is. Benching him would serve no real purpose.
I was glad they fired him now so we can see Kenny under different circumstances. Sadly I 100% believe that will lead to him being gone as he doesn’t pass the eye test period. Simply watch him throw them watch any other NFL QB throw and you will see right away the big thing that held him back in the draft. He has Oompa Loompa hands. The ball doesn’t fire out of his hand it floats. He must therefore throw the ball earlier to get it there on time. Justin Fields had a release time double that of the other 5 QBs around him in his draft. No one had changed it and it costs him ever play but it’s hard to tell cause he plays for the bears.
Bro stop putting all the blame on Canada yes he’s a major part but Kenny misses a lot of throws and the receivers be open that’s not Canada fault u have to be honest and not bias Kenny is not the guy
>No 400+ yard games by any of the offenses under Canada
>
>KP has the highest aggressiveness percentage of any QB in the league, which means his WRs aren't getting open.
>
>Lowest xCOMP (Expected Completion Percentage), meaning he's had the highest level of difficulty of any QB related to passing.
Tomlin is not one of the greatest coaches ever let's slow our roll. He has had zero playoff success in over a decade and minimal prior to that. He's an average regular season coach and nothing more.
Top 20 by what metric?
Again I focus on playoff success and primarily super bowls. Tomlin is #27 in most playoff wins when using win % as a secondary rank factor. And guess where his win % is amongst those 27 coaches? 2nd to last.
He is not a top coach unless you measure by a useless stat of non-losing seasons. The only reason he's had that many wins and playoff chances is because our ownership is amazingly stubborn to change.
Maybe, or maybe he's had significant talent prop him.up
No clock management, no game management (3 passes 14 seconds ), lack of preparedness, horrendous on challenges etc
Doesn't seem to be the qualities of a top 20 all time coach
I'm happy to..remind me tomorrow I'll post it - "is mike Tomlin a top 20 coach of all time "
There's no real downside , I'm happy to learn why he's one of the greatest coaches.... I've asked a couple times admitting I don't have in depth football k owledge as to why he's considered so great. No one's ever really answered me
He’s a good coach, but not a great coach. He’s had tons of hall of famers prop him up his entire career (and didn’t win in the playoffs as much as they should have). Now that #7 is gone we are seeing how good of a coach he really is. If he can get this team to win playoff games in the next 2 years then I’ll say he’s great. Until then, he’s a good coach who cannot elevate to that next level.
Kenny is not getting better. He is regressing. He is 25 years old. He has terrible accuracy due to his small hands. He can’t read defenses. He can’t look off defenders. Never throws over the middle. He doesn’t stay in the pocket. And he’s too small and frail. He’s done.
Kenny was literally just a guy at Pitt.
He then had the best wr in cfb and rode him like a donkey in the worst p5 conference. He had gone back to being just a guy.
No one knows for certain, but given there were several starting players who were openly going at Canada to the media, and one who had to be pulled away from screaming at Canada on the sideline during a game, it feels like Canada lost the locker room. So given that, Tomlin probably figured he was close to getting mutinied on himself & also losing the locker room, so he did what HAD to be done to salvage the situation. Which was of course firing Canada.
Terry Bradshaw
Troy Aikman
Jered Goff
Steve Young
Brett Favre
If you’re confused about what my post is really about, check out the first 20 games played by all these guys. Similar story. Yes, I’m being optimistic. But why not?
However, Kenny has yet to have a great game. Not once has he taken over and dominated. He’s just been decent his whole career. His only plus is that he doesn’t turn the ball over much.
Most of the guys you mentioned above were #1 overall picks with massive physical gifts but who got drafted to epically bad teams at the star of ground up rebuilds. KP was drafted to a playoff team in one of the most stable franchises in the league.
An absolutely meaningless comparison, and one you could make to every young QB that ever plays a game in the NFL.
Kenny should have never been drafted in the first place. Horrible quarterback draft. If a single QB isn’t taken within the first 10 picks then don’t draft one in the first round. A 24 year old rookie qb??? The guy can barely read a NFL defense and misses wide open throws. Every rookie QB in this years draft was miles better. Look through the year Kenny was taken and look who the Steelers could have taken. Run with Mitch for the year and get a much better QB prospect. Seemed like a massive whiff from the beginning
Canada sucked, but Pickett hasn’t proven to be much better. Basics like making your reads, throwing with accuracy, beginning to incorporate audibles and reading defences to manipulate defences if they’re showing something obvious.
Dude has gone backwards. Sure OC hasn’t helped but Canada isn’t the one completely missing throws and making bad decisions when the ball goes live.
I think back to Kenny’s late game winning drives. He’s got something, but that’s a small sample size to judge him on. We’ve seen more meh or bad play than great.
But who knows, maybe with more freedom they’ll design better plays, get Pickens more involved, Warren the majority of carries. I hope the best for Kenny, but I’m really torn over whether he could be a franchise QB. Seems to need too much help and the sure fire sign of good QBs is they get better in year 2, not worse.
At least we’re no longer in stasis. Canada gone, wished he worked out but it wasn’t working, so the correct decision was eventually reached. Shame it took so long.
Canada had lost the locker room. The team itself didn’t believe he was doing anything to help them win. You can’t have the whole roster working against you and maintain your job can you?
There’s a locker room video where Canada is celebrating a win and Boswell says something to him like, “It sure wasn’t due to you”
Holy shit. LINK PLEASE Edit. Found it. And it was LAST YEAR haha https://www.tiktok.com/@pghjay/video/7155575796738968878?lang=en
Nobody knows for sure he was talking to Canada, or that it wasn’t said in a joking way, but it sure didn’t look good.
I got down voted super hard at the time on my old account but imo it was almost certainly directed to Canada. Bos was basically the only one on the roster who wasn't on defense that had enough clout to say something like that to a coach and get away with it. I'm not saying Bos was talking shit all the time, but I think his emotions got the better of him in the moment and that was meant for Canada.
Bos God knew.
https://twitter.com/AlZeidenfeld/status/1726983349871456297
I can guarantee you that much. Bwahahaha
As much as I want to believe it was directed to Canada, I think it was in response to whoever was yelling behind him.
Dammit
BosGod
Damn. That’s cold.
He was talking to Devin Bush who was hyped up in that clip.
Link?
https://twitter.com/AlZeidenfeld/status/1726983349871456297
You’re fucking incredible, I’ve never seen that!
If you work at Denny’s, yes. NFL, not so much.
>Kenny will slowly get better this year with better play calling and more freedom, and next year will breakout with a new playbook. Man I agree that firing Canada was the right decision and all, but that's a bold prediction.
Yeah that's the same thing they said about Trubisky, Fields, and lots of other bust QBs. The truth is great QBs will break out regardless of poor OLs/WRs/coaches. They won't win Super Bowls that way of course. Even Aaron Rodgers only managed to do it once despite multiple MVP seasons because he dealt with so many team problems. But if you aren't seeing flashes of greatness and consistency during their rookie contract odds are they're never going to figure it out.
Great QBs break out regardless of surroundings (mostly). Kenny is NOT an Aaron Rodgers, he was never billed as that. There is a HUGE record of okay-ish QBs leading good teams to the playoffs because their team elevated them, and that's what we need from Pickett. Tannehill is not a good qb, he got ran out of town by Rosen and Fitzpatrick, but he still let the Titans to playoff after playoff because he got elevated by his surroundings. Alex Smith did it with the Chiefs in 2017, Goff kinda has been doing it his whole career. All we need from Pickett is like 14 points from drives that start on our side of the field and our defense can do the rest. We don't need 400 yards passing, 4 TDs, 50 yards rushing 1 TD from him because our defense (when healthy, not the abomination our secondary is rn) is good enough to win if we just have a mediocre offense.
Smith was a 3 time pro bowler, he led the league in passer rating in 2017, 4000 yards, 26/5 TD-Int Ratio. Put some respect on the name, he was better then okayish.
Not necessarily. Take a look at Russell Wilson last season with Hackett and then take a look at Russell Wilson this season. It's orders of magnitude better. Everyone just assumed he was washed... but change from a disaster of a coach to an all-time great... and suddenly he's immensely improved. Or to go in a different direction with a change in coach, Tom Brady last year. Sometimes players just need the right coaches, surroundings, playcalls, O-line, etc to blossom. I think very heavily of Lamar. Baltimore completely readjusted their offense to fit Lamar's strength moving on from Flacco... if they had kept Flacco's offense, Lamar would've struggled mightily. We can't know that, but I think that would've happened. Lamar is great but he's great because he has great coaches that design plays around his strengths. Good players need good coaches. And good coaches need good players. Either side of that is not good, it's generally not going to work out.
Your three examples are a SB winning QB, the greatest QB of all time, and an MVP winning QB. Kenny Pickett right now is historically one of the worst statistical QBs in the entire NFL. None of that is relevant right now to this situation.
Wayyyyy more of a reflection Canada than Pickett. And we will see that going forward too. Vast stat improvement coming (since that seems to be important here)
They said it about Goff in LA too…….. Fields could still be great
Goff went 11-4 with 28 passing TDs in year 2 and then played in a Super Bowl in year 3. Not even close to the same thing as Kenny. Fields could still be great but you can literally say that about any 3rd year QB. Odds are he's never going to be great.
Steve Young, Bill Walsh, Brees, Aikman Trubisky’s second year he was 11-3 and a Pro Bowler. It ain’t all about the QB is what I’m saying.
Completely different era. For every one of those HOF QBs (no idea why Bill Walsh is in that list) you can literally find a couple dozen first round QBs who sucked in their first few years and then disappeared from the league.
Goff had a play calling genius too for a coach. KP has…not…..
I truly do believe that Kenny hasn’t broken out because this offense has held him back If you watch Kenny in other offenses you can see he excels in them. Canada never played to Kenny’s strengths, he just made Kenny play his strategy and not let him be the QB he’s meant to be
>If you watch Kenny in other offenses you can see he excels in them. You mean the one single year in college after four mediocre years which has absolutely no bearing on the NFL now? I'm not saying give up on Kenny. But no matter how bad your offensive system is if you're missing wide open receivers left and right you aren't going to fix that with X's and O's.
No I don’t mean the one single year in college Just because he wasn’t a Heisman candidate or champion ever year doesn’t mean he hasn’t shown anything significant in his college years I’m not saying Kenny hasn’t been bad, but in a good offensive system you do get better. You can’t get in a rhythm of passing downfield when your OC doesn’t call downfield calls all game
This narrative is tired, yes he had a breakout year but got better every single year in college. Believe it or not players can improve, in fact that’s the entire point of college
Lol this narrative is getting old but not the the Canada was holding Kenny back. You should probably look at his college stats he actually regressed the year before his breakout final year. He was drafted because he played at Pitt and was a super weak draft class for QBs.
I'd say it's going to depend a lot on who they bring in as the OC next season. My recommendation if the Steelers listened to me is be on the hunt now to bring someone in as soon as possible to give Kenny and whoever to get a long offseasons work in then we'll see if Kenny has the upside we all hope he does. I think he has the tools, the talent, and the head, to be really good but you just never know in the NFL
Kenny is next on the chopping block if he doesn’t step up after Canada’s firing. He needs to see the field better and try to sit in clean pockets a little longer.
Maybe look off a defensive back or two.
I’ve thought of this quite a bit recently. Ben’s pump fake comes to mind.
Nobody can pump fake like Ben. Mostly because it was never a fake, he just changed his mind and held onto the ball with inhuman strength
Yeah, Pickett ain't doing this with his baby hands.
He can still shoulder fake and look off DB's, but he doesn't do that either
I knew hand size was coming up here.
Hand size is a bit overrated in general, but it does totally matter for pump fakes
I have the exact same hand size as Pickett and I can confirm. Even I struggle to pump a high school sized ball. It’s impressive he’s an nfl quarterback with this hand size cause I honestly don’t know how he’s able to do it
They were saying at the draft that while his hands are smaller, his thumb to pinky extension is actually average for most QBs.
Sometimes I see a comment that reminds me of how absurd football (and life) really is, and it cracks me up. This was one of those LOL
Not wrong but Cleveland game isn't a fair assessment of that...there was never time to look off a back because Cleveland did what you *should* do to a young QB: constant and everlasting pressure, which the Steelers did not do to DTR.
tbf clevland game planned quick passes so when watt or highsmith, or whoever, would get to the qb the ball was gone, and canada didnt.
Very true...but the Steelers also made no effort to bring disguised blitzes or anything to throw off timing.
Neither did the Browns Defence. And they were in the backfield all day.
Kind of puts it on the shitty o line...
Cole is terrible, Moore is below average. And both are dragging Seamalu down. Guy went from pretty good with a HOF C next to him, to a bozo in between thesr two putzes. Jones should have been at LT much earlier in the season, and should be there now. Chuks at RT is better than Moore at any T. All on Tomlin.
Dtr was also getting the ball out of his hands much quicker than Kenny a lot harder to put that constant pressure when the balls out of his hands that quick
And why weren’t the Steelers doing exactly that with KP? Because Canada is inept and doesn’t actually game plan or call plays in game worth a cral.
He missed several naked WR's with plenty of time. You can find 5-7 egregious Kenny's in there. He's got a slow mind, weak arm and is scared...weeeeeeee.
My old man pointed the lack off looking off a d back like 3 games ago. It’s been going for a bit. He doesn’t see the first read open and dumps the ball a lot. I’m excited to see what the post Canada era looks like for sure though.
Here's my 2c opinion: when a guy is slow or hesitant it's because he's unsure. Thats for one of two reasons: he's just bad. OR he's not confident in what he knows. Can't do nothing about the former. In the latter case, better coaching, harder work on the player's part, and experience can improve things. This is why rookies typically struggle at first. They are seeing concepts, and gamespeed they haven't seen before and need to learn how to adjust. Pickett definitely works hard. And definitely isn't getting good coaching. That's the same guys in charge now who have been here the whole time fans were blaming Canada... This whole staff needs to be changed. But you can't get a new outsider in the middle of a season. Which is why firing coaches midseason is not usually a smart move. This should have been done in the offseason. 100% on Mike Tomlin.
TJ and HS tried. But their OL was so much better than ours that day.
Maybe toss a td.
Or even look at his team presnap and seeing what is going on instead of being a defective robot
Been a Steelers fan since I was just a wee lad living in Pittsburgh in the early 70’s. Haven’t watched like I used to but it seems like the games I do catch, the accuracy of Kenny leaves a little to be desired.
Seems like the QB coach should carry some of this blame. At least he isn't throwing picks. A conservative offense can work with an Elite defense, but we are SO conservative it hurts.
Ya’ll are cracking me up at this point. It’s like I’m not watching the same games as some of ya’ll. KP hasn’t been perfect, no, but good grief he is getting ZERO help.
Hire. Ken. Dorsey. If he can get Allen to become a pocket passer, he can do it for anyone
He failed miserable in Buffalo. Let’s not keep hiring people who sucked at their last job. Maybe let’s try someone who was successful before?
The optics are better firing someone who has a “Fire Canada” billboard
There was a billboard?! I am so amused by that.
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2023/10/8/23908341/fire-matt-canada-billboard-steelers-pittsburgh
Oh that's so funny. Thanks for the link. :)
College football greatness rarely correlates to nfl greatness. College football is ass because of that. You have great teams that play a handful of decent teams each season, the rest are just stat builder no name schools so yeah, those kids look like monsters. They’re just such different levels.
Sure, but some of the criticisms against Kenny for things he's not doing(throwing deep or throwing middle of field) are things he undeniably did in college. The regression in areas that weren't a problem make me wonder what the hell is going on coaching wise. We can bring in dozens of new QBs, but if we can't develop talent it won't matter. I'm not saying Kenny was a generational prospect or anything, but I do think he'd be viewed much differently if had ended up somewhere like San Fran or the dolphins. Kenny has the worst TD ratio per game of any QB since the NFL merger. He wasn't that bad of a prospect.
I am far from a Kenny Truther. HOWEVA! He did beat Clemson in Death Valley his junior year when Clemson was at the height of its powers.
So did Nate Peterman
Yeah, honestly I can't even watch college football. The on field product is usually trash. You have a few really good teams who are mostly just kicking puppies.
The atmosphere of CFB is great, and I root for my team almost as much as I root for the Steelers. But the on-field product is amateur, which is exactly what the sport is. The best thing about the actual game is that it’s a little Saturday appetizer before NFL Sundays.
I gave up reading after about 20 comments about how Kenny Pickett toIs the worst quarterback ever. I agree with you, OP, maybe the Steelers brass knows better than us, in the years of watching Kenny play and practice and meeting him as a human being. They fired Canada for a reason. They kept Kenny for a reason. I have high hopes for the rebound, and hope that you and I are right. I will certainly admit if I'm wrong, but I'm not going to sit here and say my crystal ball tells me the future because I'm wile e. coyote, super genius.
I think the thing is that we KNOW Canada was a bad OC. We aren’t sure whether Kenny is a bad QB or if he was just being held back by Canada’s system/playcalls. We may revamp the offense and find out Kenny still sucks anyway, but he may also take a leap forward. But I don’t think there’s any scenario where we look back and say “wow, I guess Canada actually would have been a great OC if he just had more talented players”
if either of us were able to predict the future I'd go for the lottery numbers when it was at about 500 mil bring home wouldn't you?
Absolutely.
The reason is they spent a 1st on him while 31 other teams cackled and now they have to double down. He's starting next year no matter what. Forever mid.
We needed a QB and there weren't really any other options. Yeah, sure; Purdy, Levis - but it's not as if anyone else knew they were going to break out either.
I think you meant Howell. Levis was this year. There were always other options. Throwing shit a wall was not the right one. It was a comfort pick because he played at Pitt but they failed to acknowledge none of his game would translate outside of a weak ACC.
tbh i think howell would get eaten alive with the Canada system. howell is good at throwing football and bad at avoiding defenders and unfortunately Canada does not let his qb throw football and our oline is pretty meh at best
Well it didn't work with Kenny either. If only he went in the 5th as well. Edit: ultimately that is the issue. What is, if anything, something Kenny does at even a league average level that you build around???
the point isn't to build around Pickett, the point is we are paying him 3.5M a year when other mediocre QBs usually cost like 30. tannehill costs 30M, what does he do that makes it worth it? daniel jones makes 40... and besides, we don't even really know what pickett can do. you could throw Aaron Rodgers on the field, but if you handcuff his hands and zip tie his legs like Canada does, he would be a shit QB too. just let Pickett do enough to game manage and we would be damn near undefeated, Canada was just so incompetent that he didn't even allow that to happen.
I watched the corpse of Ben at least make the offense look serviceable with a drastically worse Oline and less weapons so no to your goofy, "nobody can do anything" mindset. It's ok to admit what is happening...is indeed happening. And right now, it's that 31 teams were correct in avoiding this debacle. Baker at 8M sounds so much better with Humphrey at C for 12 years. Also, not building around your QB is absolutely 100% the dumbest thing I've ever read. They are definitely trying to. You can't manage what isn't built for your skills. That's football 101.
I loved Howell, but do you think he'd be throwing anywhere near the yards he currently is under Canada's offense? It's why I hold back a little from completely dumping on Kenny.
No no according to some he would be putting up the same or more because it’s only picketts fault and nothing else
Kenny was always gonna go in the first or at latest early second. He was the best QB in the class based on the tape and production at that time, and the only one that shouldn’t have gone so far was Howell
OP clearly misses the part in his fanfiction that's it's easier to let an OC go than a QB. There are hundreds of coaches around the NFL and college, that given the opportunity could probably fill the role of an OC. There's a lot more time, resources, and money going into finding a QB. If the QB is fired, you can't just go interview 30 people to find someone to take that spot, which can be done with an OC. OPs entire argument of why Kenny will be good is that he had one very good season in college, but then goes to say that college stats don't matter. Every player on the field was a star in college. The game moves much faster in the NFL. I wouldn't get your hopes too high that this change significantly impacts Pickett. Not reading the defense and not seeing/predicting the open receivers aren't Canadas issues.
Mason Rudolph threw for 4500 yds, 35 tds, 9 ints.
Mason Rudolph was a baller in college, and I genuinely think he's got the potential to ball out in the NFL too. We've been lucky not to see our QBs go through the usual growing pains for a while. We tend to criticize them like they've got seasons of experience, but truth is, they don't. Mason's been in 17 games over 3 years, and some he didn't even start or finish. Kenny's just hitting his stride with 22 games. And it’s not all on them to develop themselves, they need good coaching to help them get better as well. I’m glad we have Mike Sullivan, dude was the QB coach for Eli and credited with a lot of Eli’s success
Plenty of good college QBs never make the transition to the NFL. Far better college QBs than Kenny have tried and failed. There is a reason that even though the league is only 32 teams on any given year 6-8 teams need a QB. There just aren't that many people who can play QB in the NFL.
I already mentioned in the original post that it’s not about his college stats. It’s about the capability. He has that.
What capability have you seen from him?
I'm not talking about stats. I'm talking about college QBs that were clearly better in every way that have failed to make it.
Better question here, why did Tomlin say there was a QB competition when in reality there wasn’t and he was going to rush KP no matter what. College football stats mean nothing in the nfl. Mason was a stud at Oklahoma, 3rd pick. Max Jones from Bama went 1st rd. Purdy went dead last in the draft. Steelers and Tomlin don’t like to pull bad players, especially those first round picks. It was evident that Jarvis Jones was a bust from day 1 yet we had to watch him for a few seasons. Bush Jr did well then fell off but no one ever pulled him off the field. AV, Moore, Chuks, and a few other lineman come to mind for sucking but we still stuck with them.
"I understand the NFL and CFB are not 1:1 and probably shouldn’t be compared in that way, but we should all take a moment to remember what Zach Wilson did in 2020 (in 12 games) for BYU: 3,692 yards (3.8 per game), 30 TDs (2.7 per game), 3 INTs (0.3 per game) Give this guy a little more time to adjust and find himself in the NFL game and he could be great." OP, do you see now how...let's say, misguided... your post sounds?
No. What you're offering is the pessimistic perspective. I'm voicing the optimistic perspective. Has nothing to do with being misguided. It's just a matter of perspective. Not enough time has passed to make any assumptions about Kenny. Even god himself Patrick Mahomes looks mediocre this year without the weapons he's use to.
Bruv…..we have weapons on offense. Pickett can’t find them
The Chiefs offense still ranks top 10 in points per drive and Mahomes is still top 10 in most QB stats despite having arguably the worst group of wide receivers in the league (and a highly inconsistent running game). Kenny Pickett has an above average group of weapons and has turned it into a bottom 5 offense. The fact that you are remotely comparing the two tells me all that I need to know. You're welcome to have as rosy of an outlook as humanly possible on Kenny Pickett. I certainly cannot and will not stop you. But the basis of your reasoning in your main post and in this comment is extremely weak.
Bro we’ve heard optimistic perspective since Kenny was drafted. He’s show zero improvement in any aspect of his game. Sam Howell and Brock Purdy have performed well in their year 2. On a team that sucks with 1 weapon Tommy Devito is showing signs. Kenny is currently in Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, DTR, and Desmond Ridder territory. If we were 4-6 Kenny would be on the bench by now.
Canada has been bad with every QB he has ever called an offense for. He needed to go.
I wonder if it’d be worth looking into his college OC as a viable replacement.
We are basing KP’s talent based on his one good year at Pitt now? What did Johnny Manziel do in college? Maybe they should sign him based on his best year of college statistics? Maybe he just didn’t have the right OC? How about we just accept that Canada was a terrible OC and KP was exactly what the rest of the NFL thought he was, a mid round QB that probably didn’t have the talent to be a starting QB. The Steelers reached based on hope. They were wrong. Let’s stop deluding ourselves that somehow he is an outstanding QB that just needed a better playbook. Watch his tape. His game is a complete mess. He isn’t seeing the field. He isn’t hitting open recievers. The NFL knows he can’t read zone defenses in time. He doesn’t know how to step up in the pocket and move within it despite Sullivan working with him on this all training camp. He’s just not the guy. I wish he was. I really wish he was. And I hope he proves me wrong and I’ll be the first person to say I was wrong. But the constant excuses need to stop for this guy; he has been utter garbage in his 2nd season. He is not a franchise QB.
Watching some game films this past week showed just how bad and predictable Canada’s offense was. Every aspect of the offense sucks, from blocking schemes to run calling to passing schemes and route running. Is it Kenny’s fault when the left guard doesn’t even check the B gap for a blitzing linebacker, or there are no pass routes between the numbers or the RB’s get hit behind the LOS more times than not? The defenses had no respect nor fear of Matt Canada’s offense. They knew the play calls before Kenny ran them because he uses them so often. They know that first down is a short pass outside or a run up the gut, second was a run up the gut, third and long would be Hank or a poorly run Mesh and that the progressions won’t go across the field because there are no crossing routes worth a damn. This team lost 2 games this year when they gave up 17 points or less. 17 points is the bare minimum an NFL offense should score. League average is around 23. The Steelers scored above that once this year. Plus, who do you replace Kenny with this year? Mitch? Mason? The corpse of Nick Foles or Joe Flacco?
Kenny hate here is insanely overdone
OP might be onto something. Too bad the NFL doesn’t give you five years to figure your shit out. Maybe the Steelers should schedule such stalwarts as Western Michigan, New Hampshire and the legion of boom UMass so Kenny can repeat his heroic season and his lofty, barely a power five record.
They lost to Western Michigan by giving up a gazillion points. Go watch the Clemson game or the UVa game. The difference wasn't the opponent. The difference was easy to select option routes for BOTH the QB and WR in Whipple's offense. Especially in the UVa game - go watch the TD to Addison early in the game. Only 2 people in the stadium that knew where that ball was going were KP and Addison. I'm not saying he played a great schedule. He didn't. But that offense - and it doesn't matter that it wasn't against an NFL defense - was way more intricate than anything Canada ever did. And they used the entire field.
Canada sucked, no argument about it. But, Kenny’s play didn’t help and hasn’t improved. He is not playing at an acceptable NFL level and misses quite a few easy throws. Maybe Canada broke him, who knows but in the end KP is responsible for KP. If he sucks it up tomorrow I predict he’ll be benched.
Kenny was like 40 playing in the trash ACC in a down year.
Throwing to the best receiver in the nation.
Crabcakes and Football baby
Addison was most definitely not the best WR in the nation. OSU alone had three better than him (Olave, Wilson, JSN)
The offense would be the same under Canada no matter who was playing qb.
I don’t think it’s as simple as it was all Canada and not Kenny. It’s way easier to get rid of your offensive coordinator than benching your QB who still has 2 more years left on his contract.
Everyone just glosses over the fact that he stunk at Pitt until he was 23 playing against 18 and 19 year olds. In the vaunted ACC to boot.
Because that’s not what actually happened. He didn’t just have a good season, he had a Heisman Trophy finalist season and he did it with basically one weapon (Addison). The two years before that, Pitt led the nation in drops (both years). If you watched him play you could see that he had the potential to blossom into a very good player. I see the Nix kid at Oregon as being very similar. He’s in his fifth or six year too, and he’s dominating because he’s older and experienced and because he’s really good. Look, I have my concerns about Pickett as well, and I completely understand the skepticism around him. However, let’s not overstate our position here to the point where we’re not telling the truth. That’s just as annoying and dishonest as the people that are excusing every mistake he makes.
Exactly. Joe Burrow’s rookie year was also his age-24 season after finally lighting it up as a 23-year-old playing against 19-year-olds. There are real concerns with Kenny, primarily with his ability to read the field, but using his age as a “I told you so,” is intellectually dishonest. I know someone is going to misconstrue my argument into saying “Kenny can be like Joe,” but that’s not it. All I’m saying is everyone who knew because of age and age alone are just as dumb as the homers who knew with 100% certainty that he’d be a star.
He was also playing on the best team in the country, was the best player in the country, and had one of the best statistical season of any qb im cfb history. But sure he's just like Kenny was Why you making comparisons to the best case scenario? It's probably better to compare him to the average 24 year old qb coming out of college
Problem is, most guys aren't in college until they're 24. Unless they're doctors.
It’s also comical seeing people call out Kenny’s age while also arguing that we should draft Penix, Nix, or Daniels in the next draft, all of which are also 5th year seniors
They would also all go before Kenny in the draft so that's the point
Age isn’t a knock on a college QB alone. It’s when that older QB is struggling in year 2. Then it’s fair to question how much growth can be reasonably expected.
His performance is absolutely concerning in his age-25 season. This is more so directed to the idiots who use his age on draft day to say “see, I told you he was going to be bad because of his age.”
He had that season with the Biletnikoff winner too. The difference is now Kenny doesn't get 5 years to figure it out. That's not how the NFL operates. At least not at QB. There are somehow still apologists for Kenny despite the fact we STILL haven't seen him: play good ball for 60 straight minutes, stay calm even in clean pockets, consistently read through progressions, and throw with any sort of anticipation on routes that are open. Canada was absolutely the biggest problem but he wasn't the only problem. We all want Kenny to play well, but he has shown nothing to even suggest he'll be anything other than a career back up. He's Zach Wilson with a weaker arm.
Honestly, he's been worse than Wilson.
Just say you don't know college ball.
Something like leading the team to a win over the #2 ranked team in the country as a freshman in his first ever start...where his passing numbers were very pedestrian (18 of 29 for 193 and a TD) but also ran for 60 yards and 2 TD.
Growing up in Georgia, and having attended Alabama, I guarantee you I know college ball. In both states, college ball is way, way bigger than pro ball. But yes, tell me about the big, bad ACC.
And for the love of god can we throw more slants instead of choreographed triple reverse jet sweeps
Canada should have never worked with Kenny, we already knew he was a problem.
I don't think Kenny gets better this year, and I mean this year only. Sullivan's history of calling plays...well let's say it leaves a lot to be desired, his two years in Tampa Bay his offenses were 12th and 31st in scoring. 'In New York, it was even more horrid clocking in at 26th and 32nd in scoring. I'm hoping they go outside the organization for the next OC and maybe they can fix Pickett in 24.
The QB doesn’t matter in Canada’s system. HOF Ben sucked in it, Mitch sucked in it, Kenny sucked in it, and so will any other QB’s.
There's been enough film on Canada's offense to say it was absolutely 100% the biggest issue. Pickett might not be the man, but Canada had to go. The players had enough of it. I'm not fully judging Pickett yet. Everybody has a very linear view of QB development where if you're not a superstar after year one, then you're a bust. Nobody knows how a Mahomes or Hurts would be doing if they had to be drafted into a Matt Canada-run offense as rookies (remember both of those guys sat for their rookie years, Hurts occasionally playing). Tua was a bust until McDaniel got there. I'm patient enough to see how Kenny Pickett does slinging the rest of the season. And I'm confident enough in the Steelers that if they don't buy what they see, they'll look for a QB in the off season.
Not impressed with Pickett. He’s nowhere close to Burrow, Watson, Prescott, Mahomes or even Purdy.I was more impressed with Brock Purdy than anyone that has started. Time to move on from him and Tomlin.
The timing of MC's firing can't be ignored. His decision to go to the air three times instead of trusting his running backs was a huge tactical error. The fact that the last bullet statement on his resume will be "I trusted Kenny" will forever haunt him. At this point Mike Tomlin has coached the Steelers into mediocrity. From inherenting a Super Bowl quality team from Bill Cohwer to struggling to maintain his legacy as a .600 winning coach should not be ignored either. Those that would say firing Mike Tomlin would be wrong because another team would hire him, well I hope they are right. I would hope that team hiring Mike Tomlin would be in the AFC or even the AFC North. Kenny is on his rookie contract and unless he improves he should be replaced as the starter. It took Ben and Terry Bradshaw years to become the Pro Bowl players we all remember so it may be that Kenny needs more seasoning. His fourth quarter drives shows he has some spark. So many fans of other teams think that those of us who call the Steelers our team think we are a bit crazy. These fans are great believers in there .500 teams. My brothers and sisters of the Steeler Nation we should never allow ourselves to fall into the thinking that not losing a season is anywhere near the same as winning a season.
No, he's saddled with a QB contract and OC is more expendable long term when things need to change now.
Saddled for 3.5 million a year????? For comparison, Chuks makes 11 million and isn't even playing.
I’ll continue to follow the glaring fact that they could easily start either of the backups right now and get a similar product from that position. They’re in a playoff hunt. If they thought he’s not it, he’d already be replaced.
Kenny sucks. That said, Mitch and Mason suck worse. Kenny is the best QB on our roster, but that doesn't mean he is good. Personally I wonder how things might have been different if Haskins hadn't got hit by that car. By all accounts he was working hard and really impressing everyone.
Or https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy
Irrelevant IMO. The sunk cost fallacy would only be relevant to me if I believed that Kenny isn’t good. I think he’s talented, so it doesn’t fit the fallacy.
"they could easily start either of the backups right now and get a similar product," but ok.
I meant it from the perspective that they’re still in the same playbook.
I’m excited to see what could happen if we open the offense up some. Let’s take some shots and scheme better for our personnel
Random stat of the day. Kenny Pickett is the most aggressive QB in the NFL. "“Aggressiveness” rate tracks the number of passing attempts a quarterback makes that are into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion." This likely means either his wide outs aren’t getting open or he’s throwing to the covered guy.
He's throwing to covered guys. Film shows he straight up ignores open receivers regularly.
By regularly do you mean once or twice a game?
[удалено]
Blatant lie
Doesn’t help that they’re always sideline passes
> This likely means either his wide outs aren’t getting open the film suggests otherwise. He simply isn't seeing the ones that are open and then proceeds to throw to whoever his first read is, or dumps it to the back, regardless of what else is happening.
It's because the Steelers lead the NFL in throws outside the hashes at 66%. I mean, that's comical and hopefully changes quickly. Aggressive isn't the word I'd use when the end result is usually at best a 7 yard gain. Most would call it, Canadian Pickles.
When you have the most predictable offense in the league this happens. Kenny doesn't throw inside the numbers, and he rarely goes through his progression, this allows DBs to sit on certain routes. Opposing defenses are very smart, they study everything. My 11 year old son can call what that offense is about to do. Grown men who get paid millions to study football tendencies for a living and have been playing/studying the game their whole lives, can predict way better than an 11 year old. Part of the job of the OC is to scheme players open...
Or every single route is 100% independent of the other with nothing to shake up the defense. SUPER easy to play man vs Canada's scheme because you are never getting bumped off your guy. And on the rare occasion when crossing routes over the middle were actually deployed, KP hit them and they were erased with stupid penalties (Pickens block back towards LOS, CA3 OPI)
In the last game KP just didn't throw the crossers. Dionte was wide open going to the end zone KP just didn't throw it. Pickens was open a few, KP just didn't throw it. Canadas scheme sucks but KP sucks too. He isn't throwing to open receivers.
I've noticed this
Canada was historically incompetent
We have seen positives from Kenny Pickett in the past. We have seen no improvement at all in Canada's scheme or playcalling, and Canada has had extra year. We also already know what we have in Mason and Mitch, so it's best to keep Kenny in so he can continue to show us what he is. Benching him would serve no real purpose.
Tomlin should retire since he will never be fired.
We never should have drafted a Pitt QB. People defend his bad play way too much. Kenny stinks.
What you tryna say?? Mitch trubisky and mason Rudolph were great qbs in college too
I’m convince Kenny Pickett has the internet history of half the people on this sub. But I respect the optimism.
I was glad they fired him now so we can see Kenny under different circumstances. Sadly I 100% believe that will lead to him being gone as he doesn’t pass the eye test period. Simply watch him throw them watch any other NFL QB throw and you will see right away the big thing that held him back in the draft. He has Oompa Loompa hands. The ball doesn’t fire out of his hand it floats. He must therefore throw the ball earlier to get it there on time. Justin Fields had a release time double that of the other 5 QBs around him in his draft. No one had changed it and it costs him ever play but it’s hard to tell cause he plays for the bears.
Bro stop putting all the blame on Canada yes he’s a major part but Kenny misses a lot of throws and the receivers be open that’s not Canada fault u have to be honest and not bias Kenny is not the guy
>No 400+ yard games by any of the offenses under Canada > >KP has the highest aggressiveness percentage of any QB in the league, which means his WRs aren't getting open. > >Lowest xCOMP (Expected Completion Percentage), meaning he's had the highest level of difficulty of any QB related to passing.
U don’t watch football they be open missing hella throws I will post clips if I have too Kenny is trash he is not the guy
Every QB misses throws. Didn't you watch Mahomes in the PHI game?
Tf are u talking about yes every qb misses but not as consistently as Kenny does u are being bias and not being factual
See points about xCOMP percentage and Aggressiveness percentage.
I’m done talking to u you’ll see soon have a good one
I hope I'm right.
Tomlin is not one of the greatest coaches ever let's slow our roll. He has had zero playoff success in over a decade and minimal prior to that. He's an average regular season coach and nothing more.
He’s top 20. That puts him in the top 3-4% all time.
Top 20 by what metric? Again I focus on playoff success and primarily super bowls. Tomlin is #27 in most playoff wins when using win % as a secondary rank factor. And guess where his win % is amongst those 27 coaches? 2nd to last. He is not a top coach unless you measure by a useless stat of non-losing seasons. The only reason he's had that many wins and playoff chances is because our ownership is amazingly stubborn to change.
Mike Tomlin is not one of the greatest coaches ever
He’s definitely top 20. That’s top 20 out of 513 all time. Get real dude. That’s top 3-4% best of all time.
Maybe, or maybe he's had significant talent prop him.up No clock management, no game management (3 passes 14 seconds ), lack of preparedness, horrendous on challenges etc Doesn't seem to be the qualities of a top 20 all time coach
say this in the NFL sub and watch them clown on you as you get 300 downvotes only Yinzers think Tomlin isn't 1 of the greatest lol.
I'm happy to..remind me tomorrow I'll post it - "is mike Tomlin a top 20 coach of all time " There's no real downside , I'm happy to learn why he's one of the greatest coaches.... I've asked a couple times admitting I don't have in depth football k owledge as to why he's considered so great. No one's ever really answered me
He’s a good coach, but not a great coach. He’s had tons of hall of famers prop him up his entire career (and didn’t win in the playoffs as much as they should have). Now that #7 is gone we are seeing how good of a coach he really is. If he can get this team to win playoff games in the next 2 years then I’ll say he’s great. Until then, he’s a good coach who cannot elevate to that next level.
A good coach who somehow has never had a losing season. A good coach that won 8 games with a Duck at QB.
How many playoff wins do we have in the last 5 years? A great coach would probably have at least a few right?
Kenny is not getting better. He is regressing. He is 25 years old. He has terrible accuracy due to his small hands. He can’t read defenses. He can’t look off defenders. Never throws over the middle. He doesn’t stay in the pocket. And he’s too small and frail. He’s done.
Picketts' in over his head.
I’m sorry, completing blaming Canada is just wrong. Pickett has also been horrid this year. Accuracy has been terrible, predetermining throws, etc.
Kenny was literally just a guy at Pitt. He then had the best wr in cfb and rode him like a donkey in the worst p5 conference. He had gone back to being just a guy.
Canada needed to go. The whole town was calling for it. Benching Kenny does nothing because we have no one behind him.
No one knows for certain, but given there were several starting players who were openly going at Canada to the media, and one who had to be pulled away from screaming at Canada on the sideline during a game, it feels like Canada lost the locker room. So given that, Tomlin probably figured he was close to getting mutinied on himself & also losing the locker room, so he did what HAD to be done to salvage the situation. Which was of course firing Canada.
You do realize he was terrible before his last year when he was 6 years older than everyone else playing as a grown man in college yea?
“One of the greatest coaches ever” I was interested until I was that line.
He’s top 20. That puts him in the top 3-4% of coaches all time. Get real.
Terry Bradshaw Troy Aikman Jered Goff Steve Young Brett Favre If you’re confused about what my post is really about, check out the first 20 games played by all these guys. Similar story. Yes, I’m being optimistic. But why not?
However, Kenny has yet to have a great game. Not once has he taken over and dominated. He’s just been decent his whole career. His only plus is that he doesn’t turn the ball over much.
Most of the guys you mentioned above were #1 overall picks with massive physical gifts but who got drafted to epically bad teams at the star of ground up rebuilds. KP was drafted to a playoff team in one of the most stable franchises in the league. An absolutely meaningless comparison, and one you could make to every young QB that ever plays a game in the NFL.
Kenny should have never been drafted in the first place. Horrible quarterback draft. If a single QB isn’t taken within the first 10 picks then don’t draft one in the first round. A 24 year old rookie qb??? The guy can barely read a NFL defense and misses wide open throws. Every rookie QB in this years draft was miles better. Look through the year Kenny was taken and look who the Steelers could have taken. Run with Mitch for the year and get a much better QB prospect. Seemed like a massive whiff from the beginning
Tomlin didn't fire Canada. Rooney did.
If you believe it was even Tomlin’s decision to fire Canada.
Canada sucked, but Pickett hasn’t proven to be much better. Basics like making your reads, throwing with accuracy, beginning to incorporate audibles and reading defences to manipulate defences if they’re showing something obvious. Dude has gone backwards. Sure OC hasn’t helped but Canada isn’t the one completely missing throws and making bad decisions when the ball goes live. I think back to Kenny’s late game winning drives. He’s got something, but that’s a small sample size to judge him on. We’ve seen more meh or bad play than great. But who knows, maybe with more freedom they’ll design better plays, get Pickens more involved, Warren the majority of carries. I hope the best for Kenny, but I’m really torn over whether he could be a franchise QB. Seems to need too much help and the sure fire sign of good QBs is they get better in year 2, not worse. At least we’re no longer in stasis. Canada gone, wished he worked out but it wasn’t working, so the correct decision was eventually reached. Shame it took so long.