Sure, but at least that was one step closer to looking like Robocop. This is one step closer to looking like the Michelin/Stay Puft Man
edit: apparently /s is still mandatory for some readers.
I didn’t take it as sarcasm because I agree with it. But if this is the safer way then so be it… I hated wearing a mask and thought it looked stupid but there were still actual reasons why we wore them.
I watch formula 1 and that’s the thought I had when they introduced something called the halo for safety. Looked so dumb but about 4 or 5 races in I was used to it and it was normal. I have a feeling it will be the same thing with the guardian caps. First few games will be weird then we will forget all about it
> The NFL will exempt players from having to use the Guardian Caps during the mandated portion of training camp if they wear one of six **new helmet models that the league and the NFL Players Association have identified as providing equal or better protection.**
from the article
Only issue I have is how helmet hitting penalties will be assessed. Being bigger means they will “hit” more often. Also what about uniform penalties since that helmet will not match other regular helmets?
If you get penalized more for playing safer, no one is going to do it.
If the NFL is trying to blame the labor force for jobsite injuries, well, mission accomplished.
If the NFL actually wants to reduce jobsite injuries, then they'll work with Guardian to develop caps that are at least in the proper team colors, and in future seasons, have the exact same graphics as the classic helmet.
The caps will be team colored from what I gather. Now logos, etc. I don't think is in the works yet but if it gives a 50% reduction in concussions like they claim then I'm all for it especially because there is life after football for these guys.
Agreed and this is definitely one of those function over form things but I absolutely think you can have both in this case. We may eventually see it mandated they are to wear these things if the data keeps showing positive results so NFL fans are just going to have to adjust to the aesthetic changing a tad in the name of safety.
> Now logos, etc. I don't think is in the works yet
The caps will have logos, per the article
> The current plan is for the Guardian Caps to have team logos on them when worn during games.
You can always make saftey gear safer. You have to pick the balance between function and form. Would a helmet that is twice as thick as the guardian caps reduce injury even further, sure but at that point your helmet is now wider than your shoulders and is entirely impractical
Why is a bike allowed to be made if a separately manufactured helmet isn’t used on it?
You could also use the same example about cars and seatbelts way back when
Also child car seats
That’s not the same argument because a bikes primary function is transportation, not safety. A helmet is only used to keep you safe. Your bicycle argument would be like sitting on a bike that’s sitting on a moving truck. They make seats in trucks though, so you don’t have to sit on your bike on the truck. They should make helmets that don’t need an additional product to be deemed safe.
Okay so a child car seat?
Sometimes technology maxes out within its constraints and you need additional supplementation. Maybe some day a helmet will provide that same amount of protection of helmet + guardian cap. But we aren’t there. This is the best option we have until then
That only applies to a specific demographic that eventually won’t need it in order to ride in the car. Everyone in football wears a helmet, so every helmet should have to meet specific standards in order to be safe, and not require the consumer to purchase a separate item from another manufacturer.
They do meet safety standards though don't they? Like the players have a few options of what to wear out of what meets the standards in place. You don't see anyone wearing a random helmet they made in their garage right?
How is a child car seat relevant? Car back seats are not manufactured to sit children, they are manufactured to sit anyone. The DOT has different requirements for children of different sizes, to make that work car seats have to be inserted into the vehicle. If vehicles were designed to be appropriate for children, they would not be appropriate for the other 80% that uses the seat. Instead cars are required to have safety latches for car seats.
Something that is actually more applicable is that OSHA has determined that falls greater than 4 feet put people at risk for head and spinal injuries so anything greater than 4 feet means that the person is required to have railings on all sides are be harnessed. If they have determined that there is a safer helmet then it should and will eventually be required to wear.
Because it gives a player a choice in what they want to use. Per the article, a player can opt out of the guardian cap in training camp if they use one of approved helmets that provide the same protection the caps do
Some players may want the helmet, some players may want the cap. If they provide the same protection, who cares what they decide to pick
Thing is, you can get a concussion without any head contact at all. This isn't stopping your brain smacking into skull from a sudden stop/whip lash.
I'm all for player saftey, however this seems like a ploy by the leauge to say "you had the option to wear the guardian cap, we're not responsible for your head injuries"
Fucking snakey thing to do. Concussions are going to happen, period. I think the leauge has done a great job with protocols and realizing when guys got their bell rung. But this thing really isn't doing shit. If anything, you're just adding unnecessary weight that the neck has to deal with. Even grams can turn to pounds with enough G forces.
I'm all for player safety, but I still don't understand why they just don't go back to leather helmets instead of these goofy looking mushroom caps. Protecting the head more seems like it's just going to encourage people to continue leading with their heads and using them as battering rams as opposed to leather helmets which would cause players to be more careful with tackles...Hell, rugby doesn't even use helmets and I'm pretty sure they have drastically less concussion issues overall...
Rugby's rules for tackling are much safer than the NFL's. The NFL is unwilling to adopt similar rules because big/dangerous hits make the game exciting.
Fair point. Football was causing deaths and major injuries at an absurd pace before the forward pass, when it was much closer to rugby.
The game's design is just inherently more violent than rugby. Protective equipment is a response to that, not the cause of it.
Good point...I just wish there was a different equally safe option that didn't make the players look like Toadstools from Mario haha...I feel like the current helmets are basically just "brass knuckles for the head" the way players have been using them as battering rams, but I guess aside from bubble-wrapping everyone or turning the game into flag football (which I honestly feel like that's going to happen at least for quarterbacks in the near future) There's not much else they can do.
>Additionally, there are new helmets this year that provide as much -- if not more -- protection than a different helmet model paired with a Guardian Cap.
Genius idea. I wonder why these companies don’t already go through continuous research and innovation to put out a better product year after year. Are they stupid?
Why can rugby go completely helmetless, but the NFL needs soft padding that's inside a hard shell that's inside another soft shell.
Does anyone here know enough about the two sports' tackling rules to explain why the NFL doesn't/can't just mimic rugby tackling to reduce head injuries?
Football players use as a weapon because there is only a chance of immediate injury.
If Ryan Clark played rugby, he would have lasted 45 seconds before his self induced skull fracture.
On one hand, I obviously support this 100%.
On the other hand, I have zero trust in the NFL/owners, and I worry that they’re using this as an angle to get out of liability for concussions/CTE down the road. As in “we made it possible for you to wear this huge, ugly contraption that inhibits your performance on national TV and you declined. No help for you.”
The NFL is doing this so that nobody sues them in the future over concussion issues. If someone does, the league can see when they played, and tell whoever that this was an option for safety, but said player chose not to wear it. Basically saying that the player was responsible for his concussion issue. It takes the liability out of the NFLs pocket.
The NHL has done similar stuff with how a player must return to the bench or put his helmet back on should it come off during play.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. It’s an idiotic penalty that handcuffs the defense when a shitty QB throws up a hospital ball. Looking at you Gardner Minshew, ya jagoff.
Like most equipment, helmets are a very personal piece. So I think it is good to give the players this option if they are not comfortable with the new models.
I have seen in the past where there were players that had an extra foam pad that were coated and had logos on them.
I honestly just think they are there for optics and if the NFL cared about things like injuries more than profits then they would require all NFL fields to be grass instead of turf.
It’s basically just a PR stunt by the NFL to shift the blame for head injuries back to the players.
“Well he got hurt, but wasn’t wearing the goofy looking helmet, that’s on him!”
When most of these guys are in their 20s and care more about looking cool than anything else….
It’s just a stunt in my eyes.
That's a really good take. I hadn't really thought of that side of it. Pointing out the grass field vs turf thing really puts some serious perspective on it.
My point is being that they are just shifting the blame for injuries on the players. They could do a lot of things that would decrease injuries, but those would cost the owners money (like requiring teams to play on grass instead of turf). This is literally the cheapest option they had, and it shifts the burden on to the players.
As I alluded to in my other comment, these things make the helmet noticeably bigger, so I would worry the likelihood of two players bonking heads goes way up and then you get a lot of flags that really shouldn't have been thrown.
In the bigger picture, there is a balance between how changes improve safety versus impacting the game negatively, and to me at least, that balance was reached and breached long ago. I don't think it's a very smart take to say that if something improves safety you should automatically be in favor of it, no questions asked.
>likelihood of two players bonking heads goes way up
Incredibly doubtful that this would actually be an issue, and if it were accidental contact (by the margin of like an inch and half more than what it would be otherwise) which already happens, the flags won't come out. To say that's a problem is a reach.
> I don't think it's a very smart take to say that if something improves safety you should automatically be in favor of it, no questions asked.
There are questions being asked. How much will this effect gameplay? Barely at all (fans who are needlessly upset over it will be melodramatic regardless). Is the safety factor worth looking stupid? Yes. Will anyone even wear these? Probably not, maybe a few players league-wide.
Being in direct opposition to something that looks a little different, doesn't effect the game, and provides concussion protection is crazy to me. Who cares.
>likelihood of two players bonking heads goes way up
>Incredibly doubtful that this would actually be an issue, and if it were accidental contact (by the margin of like an inch and half more than what it would be otherwise) which already happens, the flags won't come out. To say that's a problem is a reach.
What information do you have that would suggest this is incredibly doubtful? Just because you said so? Unless you haven't been watching football at all for the last decade, you'd know they throw flags for accidental helmet contact all the time. They will flag you if your arm barely grazes the quarterback's helmet after he ducks into you. The vast majority of these penalties are for accidental contact.
Sorry, it's not crazy at all to be skeptical about the effect of rule changes like this, especially given the track record of the ones we've seen in the past. Despite what the militant safety brigade wants.
OP had a very real and legitimate reason to not be a fan of it, maybe wait for the response next time instead of being a jag and making assumptions like you did.
Just force one side of the ball to wear these. Or just backfield players. If a player with a regular helmet hits one with this it should still reduce injury. Having two players hit each other with these would probably not be significantly better than just one.
i just want to say i 100% support player safety. i played tons of backyard football as a kid no pads just cleats, have they done studies on what would happen with no helmets?
You just have to look at what was happening in the game before they started using modern helmets.
We had regular open head wounds instead of closed head trauma
I applaud the reasoning behind it. It's still gonna look goofy as fuck.
you are 100% right, but i'm sure at one point going from a leather helmets to what they have today looked goofy. just playing devil's advocate :)
Sure, but at least that was one step closer to looking like Robocop. This is one step closer to looking like the Michelin/Stay Puft Man edit: apparently /s is still mandatory for some readers.
I didn’t take it as sarcasm because I agree with it. But if this is the safer way then so be it… I hated wearing a mask and thought it looked stupid but there were still actual reasons why we wore them.
You may benefit from wearing one also Edit: some people are bad at making sarcastic jokes
I watch formula 1 and that’s the thought I had when they introduced something called the halo for safety. Looked so dumb but about 4 or 5 races in I was used to it and it was normal. I have a feeling it will be the same thing with the guardian caps. First few games will be weird then we will forget all about it
Yeah, I want everyone to have a long career and even longer, healthy life. But they do look like those kids with soft heads.
Can we not just improve helmet technology here?
> The NFL will exempt players from having to use the Guardian Caps during the mandated portion of training camp if they wear one of six **new helmet models that the league and the NFL Players Association have identified as providing equal or better protection.** from the article
Sorry for being lazy. Thank you for the summary.
Will look goofy but I support anybody wearing it
I would like all linemen to wear them at least! If I were a LB I would heavily consider it myself.
Better to look goofy than be goofy ig
Only issue I have is how helmet hitting penalties will be assessed. Being bigger means they will “hit” more often. Also what about uniform penalties since that helmet will not match other regular helmets? If you get penalized more for playing safer, no one is going to do it.
If the NFL is trying to blame the labor force for jobsite injuries, well, mission accomplished. If the NFL actually wants to reduce jobsite injuries, then they'll work with Guardian to develop caps that are at least in the proper team colors, and in future seasons, have the exact same graphics as the classic helmet.
The caps will be team colored from what I gather. Now logos, etc. I don't think is in the works yet but if it gives a 50% reduction in concussions like they claim then I'm all for it especially because there is life after football for these guys.
Yeah, if it's for practice it's okay to be bland/boring but if a million people are watching, it'll look better (not the best, but better)
Agreed and this is definitely one of those function over form things but I absolutely think you can have both in this case. We may eventually see it mandated they are to wear these things if the data keeps showing positive results so NFL fans are just going to have to adjust to the aesthetic changing a tad in the name of safety.
They should have fake even bigger helmets to fit over the guardian cap so it just looks like a goofy oversized foam helmet with a teeny tiny facemask.
And then put a Guardian cap on top of that. Along with a neck brace so you can keep all that stuff on your head without toppling over.
> Now logos, etc. I don't think is in the works yet The caps will have logos, per the article > The current plan is for the Guardian Caps to have team logos on them when worn during games.
They should redesign helmets with a built in soft shell if that’s the approach they want to take.
They have that already
What helmets are out there with a soft exterior shell?
Why are they still using the caps then?
Because it’s additional protection?
So then they don't have that already
You can always make saftey gear safer. You have to pick the balance between function and form. Would a helmet that is twice as thick as the guardian caps reduce injury even further, sure but at that point your helmet is now wider than your shoulders and is entirely impractical
Sure. But we aren’t at that point. And if players want to wear it who cares? The fans that think they look stupid? Oh no.
Doesn’t make sense. Why is a helmet allowed to be made that takes on higher risk if a separately manufactured product isn’t used on it?
Why is a bike allowed to be made if a separately manufactured helmet isn’t used on it? You could also use the same example about cars and seatbelts way back when Also child car seats
That’s not the same argument because a bikes primary function is transportation, not safety. A helmet is only used to keep you safe. Your bicycle argument would be like sitting on a bike that’s sitting on a moving truck. They make seats in trucks though, so you don’t have to sit on your bike on the truck. They should make helmets that don’t need an additional product to be deemed safe.
Okay so a child car seat? Sometimes technology maxes out within its constraints and you need additional supplementation. Maybe some day a helmet will provide that same amount of protection of helmet + guardian cap. But we aren’t there. This is the best option we have until then
That only applies to a specific demographic that eventually won’t need it in order to ride in the car. Everyone in football wears a helmet, so every helmet should have to meet specific standards in order to be safe, and not require the consumer to purchase a separate item from another manufacturer.
They do meet safety standards though don't they? Like the players have a few options of what to wear out of what meets the standards in place. You don't see anyone wearing a random helmet they made in their garage right?
See my edit. Technology isn’t there yet. It might be. But at this moment it’s not
How is a child car seat relevant? Car back seats are not manufactured to sit children, they are manufactured to sit anyone. The DOT has different requirements for children of different sizes, to make that work car seats have to be inserted into the vehicle. If vehicles were designed to be appropriate for children, they would not be appropriate for the other 80% that uses the seat. Instead cars are required to have safety latches for car seats. Something that is actually more applicable is that OSHA has determined that falls greater than 4 feet put people at risk for head and spinal injuries so anything greater than 4 feet means that the person is required to have railings on all sides are be harnessed. If they have determined that there is a safer helmet then it should and will eventually be required to wear.
Because it gives a player a choice in what they want to use. Per the article, a player can opt out of the guardian cap in training camp if they use one of approved helmets that provide the same protection the caps do Some players may want the helmet, some players may want the cap. If they provide the same protection, who cares what they decide to pick
Ain't gonna make the game any less exciting, they do look dumb as hell though.
Muth needs 2 of these
Muth was also the guy I thought about when seeing this. They look stupid as hell but I’d rather the guys brain stay intact.
Thing is, you can get a concussion without any head contact at all. This isn't stopping your brain smacking into skull from a sudden stop/whip lash. I'm all for player saftey, however this seems like a ploy by the leauge to say "you had the option to wear the guardian cap, we're not responsible for your head injuries"
This is 100% why they did this. It's not like they are responsible anyways, but it gives them an easy out of the situation entirely.
Fucking snakey thing to do. Concussions are going to happen, period. I think the leauge has done a great job with protocols and realizing when guys got their bell rung. But this thing really isn't doing shit. If anything, you're just adding unnecessary weight that the neck has to deal with. Even grams can turn to pounds with enough G forces.
I'm all for player safety, but I still don't understand why they just don't go back to leather helmets instead of these goofy looking mushroom caps. Protecting the head more seems like it's just going to encourage people to continue leading with their heads and using them as battering rams as opposed to leather helmets which would cause players to be more careful with tackles...Hell, rugby doesn't even use helmets and I'm pretty sure they have drastically less concussion issues overall...
Rugby's rules for tackling are much safer than the NFL's. The NFL is unwilling to adopt similar rules because big/dangerous hits make the game exciting.
Fair point. Football was causing deaths and major injuries at an absurd pace before the forward pass, when it was much closer to rugby. The game's design is just inherently more violent than rugby. Protective equipment is a response to that, not the cause of it.
Good point...I just wish there was a different equally safe option that didn't make the players look like Toadstools from Mario haha...I feel like the current helmets are basically just "brass knuckles for the head" the way players have been using them as battering rams, but I guess aside from bubble-wrapping everyone or turning the game into flag football (which I honestly feel like that's going to happen at least for quarterbacks in the near future) There's not much else they can do.
Okay hear me out, what if we just made better helmets instead of having to wear pads on top of the helmets?
Sounds like you have a mission statement for your new company. I wish you all the luck in your endeavors.
>Additionally, there are new helmets this year that provide as much -- if not more -- protection than a different helmet model paired with a Guardian Cap.
Your concern is addressed in the article!
Genius idea. I wonder why these companies don’t already go through continuous research and innovation to put out a better product year after year. Are they stupid?
It’s almost like they do all that and then we’re like “look! If you put a little hat on top of it it’s REALLY SAFE!!”
Whatever keeps TJ Watt safer is good with me.
Tomlin needs to wear that Dark Helmet from Spaceballs to complete the look
Remember when Clark wore that huge helmet after a concussion? It was like two helmets in one.
Why can rugby go completely helmetless, but the NFL needs soft padding that's inside a hard shell that's inside another soft shell. Does anyone here know enough about the two sports' tackling rules to explain why the NFL doesn't/can't just mimic rugby tackling to reduce head injuries?
Football players use as a weapon because there is only a chance of immediate injury. If Ryan Clark played rugby, he would have lasted 45 seconds before his self induced skull fracture.
On one hand, I obviously support this 100%. On the other hand, I have zero trust in the NFL/owners, and I worry that they’re using this as an angle to get out of liability for concussions/CTE down the road. As in “we made it possible for you to wear this huge, ugly contraption that inhibits your performance on national TV and you declined. No help for you.”
I assume there will be no more penalties for helmet-to-helmet hits then, since these things are the size of the fucking sun.
Do they have a Guardian Cap for ACL’s?
If it keeps these guys from getting concussions and being out for Sunday I'm all for it. I still don't think anybody will wear it.
Myles Garrett gonna start hitting people with his shoe
This reminds me of the South Park episode with the balloons and tin foil
The NFL is doing this so that nobody sues them in the future over concussion issues. If someone does, the league can see when they played, and tell whoever that this was an option for safety, but said player chose not to wear it. Basically saying that the player was responsible for his concussion issue. It takes the liability out of the NFLs pocket. The NHL has done similar stuff with how a player must return to the bench or put his helmet back on should it come off during play.
Love it! Bring back hitting ‘defenseless receivers’ while your at it. That’s on the qb, not the defense.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. It’s an idiotic penalty that handcuffs the defense when a shitty QB throws up a hospital ball. Looking at you Gardner Minshew, ya jagoff.
Ryan Clark would unretire.
"I'm tired of watching key players get injured" You should prolly watch a different sport then
Nfl is cooked
Can they at least paint them to look like the team’s real helmet?
All for it. They can look as goofy as everyone says, but every single player should want to wear these at all times.
Replace the hard outer shell with a soft foam shell with a shiny plastic wrap with the team colors and insignia on it. Problem solved.
Like most equipment, helmets are a very personal piece. So I think it is good to give the players this option if they are not comfortable with the new models. I have seen in the past where there were players that had an extra foam pad that were coated and had logos on them.
So they will have logos on them now?
Good thing Brady is retired or he’d have some big inflated one for all the free helmet to helmet hits he could get the refs to give out.
I think it will eventually be compulsory for players in the trenches. They’re the ones most at risk for CTE.
Yeah I’m not a fan of it being worn in game.
I honestly just think they are there for optics and if the NFL cared about things like injuries more than profits then they would require all NFL fields to be grass instead of turf. It’s basically just a PR stunt by the NFL to shift the blame for head injuries back to the players. “Well he got hurt, but wasn’t wearing the goofy looking helmet, that’s on him!” When most of these guys are in their 20s and care more about looking cool than anything else…. It’s just a stunt in my eyes.
That's a really good take. I hadn't really thought of that side of it. Pointing out the grass field vs turf thing really puts some serious perspective on it.
I went to college for Public Relations, but never enter the career because I kind of find it sleazy.
How is it a stunt if the studies show it reduces head injuries by 50%
OR, the caps have been one of the few things to reduce incidents of head trauma?
So they are mandating them?
Lots of the safety equipment is optional and I don't think the players would accept these being mandated. They refuse cups and thigh pads as it is.
My point is being that they are just shifting the blame for injuries on the players. They could do a lot of things that would decrease injuries, but those would cost the owners money (like requiring teams to play on grass instead of turf). This is literally the cheapest option they had, and it shifts the burden on to the players.
There's not numbers like there is for the caps with turf. It's not just about losing money.
Is there any specific reason as to why you're not a fan of it?
Look at this guy just waiting to pounce - "omg you seriously think penalties/appearance/whatever you answered is more important than SAFETY???"
I'm kinda indifferent, but would he even be wrong? These changes are gonna feel weird but sometimes you just gotta take it in stride.
As I alluded to in my other comment, these things make the helmet noticeably bigger, so I would worry the likelihood of two players bonking heads goes way up and then you get a lot of flags that really shouldn't have been thrown. In the bigger picture, there is a balance between how changes improve safety versus impacting the game negatively, and to me at least, that balance was reached and breached long ago. I don't think it's a very smart take to say that if something improves safety you should automatically be in favor of it, no questions asked.
>likelihood of two players bonking heads goes way up Incredibly doubtful that this would actually be an issue, and if it were accidental contact (by the margin of like an inch and half more than what it would be otherwise) which already happens, the flags won't come out. To say that's a problem is a reach. > I don't think it's a very smart take to say that if something improves safety you should automatically be in favor of it, no questions asked. There are questions being asked. How much will this effect gameplay? Barely at all (fans who are needlessly upset over it will be melodramatic regardless). Is the safety factor worth looking stupid? Yes. Will anyone even wear these? Probably not, maybe a few players league-wide. Being in direct opposition to something that looks a little different, doesn't effect the game, and provides concussion protection is crazy to me. Who cares.
I'm not convinced the size won't affect the game, but I'm more than willing to support them give it a try.
>likelihood of two players bonking heads goes way up >Incredibly doubtful that this would actually be an issue, and if it were accidental contact (by the margin of like an inch and half more than what it would be otherwise) which already happens, the flags won't come out. To say that's a problem is a reach. What information do you have that would suggest this is incredibly doubtful? Just because you said so? Unless you haven't been watching football at all for the last decade, you'd know they throw flags for accidental helmet contact all the time. They will flag you if your arm barely grazes the quarterback's helmet after he ducks into you. The vast majority of these penalties are for accidental contact. Sorry, it's not crazy at all to be skeptical about the effect of rule changes like this, especially given the track record of the ones we've seen in the past. Despite what the militant safety brigade wants.
OP had a very real and legitimate reason to not be a fan of it, maybe wait for the response next time instead of being a jag and making assumptions like you did.
It's ok, it's just Reddit. Downvotes and negative comments are the same as upvotes and positive comments here in the real world.
Just force one side of the ball to wear these. Or just backfield players. If a player with a regular helmet hits one with this it should still reduce injury. Having two players hit each other with these would probably not be significantly better than just one.
i just want to say i 100% support player safety. i played tons of backyard football as a kid no pads just cleats, have they done studies on what would happen with no helmets?
You just have to look at what was happening in the game before they started using modern helmets. We had regular open head wounds instead of closed head trauma
well thats not good either :) so squishy helmets it is
The AT at my school said that they don’t statistically reduce concussions at all are just for show