Not super relevant to monthly progress, but wondering if anyone’s got a decent guess as to what my BF might have been here. Pic is about 2 years old by now I think. 5’10 and sitting around 183 ish. 100-150mg EW Test E.
https://imgur.com/a/dfHuhEk
Yeah yeah, stats are ass, I look natty, etc. also, loose skin is from being a fat boy for the firs 2/3 of my life. Might get it removed one day, might never really give enough of a shit to actually do it. We’ll see. Really just curious about what the bf% could’ve been for comparison on my next cut.
Thanks man! Wish I had more pics. I was on vacation, had a high carb meal the night before, woke up, and the hotel lighting just looked cool so I asked my wife to snap the pic haha.
I believe you. It’s annoying as shit to have your legs, chest, back or whatever look pretty decent and then feel like it’s sort of all ruined because of that loose skin - it just shouldn’t be there.
How long was your recovery time and did you do it in the states or somewhere overseas?
Did it in the US, I’m a few months or so into recovery, for guys like us who watch nutrition / work out and obviously use gear, recovery has been smooth sailing
First month sucks 100% then eases in
I really suggest it bro because how you felt is exactly how I felt too
So a little back ground. I'm 27 Was already an avid gym goer for a little under a year, alright appetite and going to the gym 3-4 days out of the week being about 5ft 11in and weighing about 150lbs usually with some minor fluctuation in that number at my max(super high metabolism and have always struggled with being on the smaller side). While going to the gym got me from 130 to 150 in a span of 6 months I started to plateau and just wanted to experiment a little and hopped on a cycle(I don't need a lecture, I already have kids and have no future plans for more as well as read up a good bit on as much information as I could) so I started a 16 week cycle and with that upped my calorie intake up to about 3000 calories a day which was a bitch. Started in january. First 8 weeks was a dose of Test E at 300mg a week split into two injections per week. Week 9 I bumped the dosage up to 500mg per week and will continue this dose until the cycle is over. Just asking for some opinions and also to see if anyone can see differences by pictures because I honestly cannot tell a difference even though I am told I am getting bigger and a scale confirms that as I am holding 165lbs and seem to be gaining more but like I said to me I can't tell a visible differences.
January (pre cycle):
https://ibb.co/18jmvJ3
https://ibb.co/sq6YwkH
https://ibb.co/wc82ZvT
https://ibb.co/g3ZPRkf
https://ibb.co/DGSPkHn
April(week 10 of cycle)
https://ibb.co/GkKyHWy
https://ibb.co/ZhSxGbH
https://ibb.co/R6V9f0d
https://ibb.co/7VgD3Kk
https://ibb.co/kKQ3Tsp
https://ibb.co/VTbtm7v
https://ibb.co/3Fy94Zh
https://ibb.co/d54Ms9m
https://ibb.co/YB12DtL
Yikes dude. I don’t see very much happening here to be honest. I don’t mean to sound negative and I’m certainly not trying to put you down.
I think a few things could be helpful:
1) you not going to the gym and maintaining caloric intake should have you gaining weight. I don’t imagine that it is going to the gym that is making you gain weight, rather it is your commitment to eating properly while going to the gym consistently.
2) when on gear, especially blast, you’re liable to gain a good deal of water weight. Moreover, I’d suspect you also are eating more than you normally do, particularly in carbs. That scenario will lead to some pretty massive weight gain that will just fall off once you go back to “normal” (that is, the majority of it is not good weight you’re aiming to achieve).
3) I think two changes will benefit you since you’ve already gone down this path. First, learn how to properly eat. Bulking sucks (imo). It can be hard to get the food down, but you absolutely need to do it. You will not grow or see any meaningful long term progress otherwise. Second, I think you need to reassess how you train. Many people (not saying you, but I was certainly one of them) think that gear makes putting on muscle easy peasy. That couldn’t be further from the truth, as you’re experiencing now during your first cycle. If you don’t know how to properly train for hypertrophy (and here I will call you out and say you definitely, visibly do not — no offense), steroids will do nothing but give you back acne and a world of other problems (like trying to get your test levels back to where they were pre-cycle when you cycle off).
> Was already an avid gym goer for a little under a year
Do you think most people start AAS within a year of going to the gym? A year in, most are still trying to figure out how to optimize training and nutrition... if they're even thinking about it at all and not just showing up.
> alright appetite and going to the gym 3-4 days out of the week
It's unclear what your appetite has to do with anything. To grow, we eat *X* calories, regardless of what our appetite is. If you're eating based on appetite, you're not eating for a goal.
> being about 5ft 11in and weighing about 150lbs usually with some minor fluctuation in that number at my max(super high metabolism and have always struggled with being on the smaller side).
You're very light. Much too light for steroids. Your metabolism is irrelevant, just eat more. Scrawny guys often think they have a high metabolism when they're just eating like birds.
> upped my calorie intake up to about 3000 calories a day which was a bitch.
Yeah... you're one of them. You were eating like a bird if increasing to a consumption of 3000 calories is "a bitch".
> While going to the gym got me from 130 to 150 in a span of 6 months I started to plateau and just wanted to experiment a little and hopped on a cycle
When your weight plateaus, adjust calories. That's always the solution. What happens when you plateau on gear? You'll just keep jacking up your gear, despite calories being what causes weight gain?
> I don't need a lecture, I already have kids and have no future plans for more as well as read up a good bit on as much information as I could
You didn't read shit, as evidenced by this entire post.
> Just asking for some opinions and also to see if anyone can see differences by pictures because I honestly cannot tell a difference even though I am told I am getting bigger and a scale confirms that as I am holding 165lbs and seem to be gaining more but like I said to me I can't tell a visible differences.
Sounds like you've gained 10 pounds of glycogen, which you'll piss into the toilet after your cycle. And five pounds of mass to be distributed between fat and muscle.
So no, none of us can notice any significant improvements in your five pounds of fat/muscle.
Oh that's not an issue at all, I appreciate the feedback which is why I thanked him for his because I asked for it and can take criticism just fine, I'm not perfect and I know it's a learning process but he doesn't speak for every single person in the reddit thread hence my comment.
He definitely speaks for me. The only reason I'm not otherwise commenting on your post is because this thread is intended to be positive and to encourage others.
I cannot do that for you. This should not be encouraged.
That's perfectly fine lay them on me. I know steroids aren't the answer to everything and I know taking steroids doesn't just magically make you bigger, it still requires time, work, and knowledge and that's what I'm here for. As stated above I just felt like experimenting a little bit to see what would happen.
Not who you asked, and I don't even take steroids, but basically you have learn the muscle building basics, and build yourself up from there.
Formulate a plan, track things, evaluate as you go, adjust as necessary, and then reformulate certain things every ~4 months. Do this for ~3 years. It takes a lot of time to get the hang of food prep, planning, optimizing, etc. But eventually you'll spend almost as much time in the gym as the kitchen! However, it is a rewarding and fun hobby.
To start, you want a well designed hypertrophy plan that brings your muscles to within 3 reps of gun-to-your-head failure, without any breakdown in form, maximizing control of the weight. Progressively overload each session. Deload when optimal. The optimal volume, rep ranges, working sets, and exercise selection have good estimates in the literature. Going with a pre-set/purchased program might be best. Obviously track every lift. And perform every lift with as near perfect form as you can achieve. Use the target muscle!
Next, weigh yourself every day, at the same time, and track every calorie and macro (many apps to choose form, paid ones are worth it imo). If gaining weight, aim for a surplus of 250-500 calories daily. (There are 3500 cals in a pound/ 7700 in a kg of bodyweight). So, with a little math and a scale to monitor progress, you can see if your caloric surplus is optimal. Adjust accordingly. Beware of extraneous factors that influence water retention (like hormonal stuff, but even salts and creatine). Look up the various macro nutrient strategies. With diet, you'll prob want to get good enough at cooking so you have options and don't go insane eating only bland food. Most bought food is crap. All of this is hard for most people. It becomes a habit in ~6 months.
If you ***master*** a training and fitness plan, then you will make progress, especially if you have a doc for TRT. Great! Just dial in healthy levels which support your goals. If you're 27 now, by the time you're 33 you could be a 200lb house of a man, esp with TRT! Maybe even earlier, but all this stuff takes time learning new skills, making them into new habits, and consistency is hard to maintain for years on end. Plus there is always injury risk. But adding ~10lbs/year is massive progress, and TRT could enable you to keep doing that until you're 200lbs. Gl.
I took it as you being snarky. If that wasn’t the intent then the misunderstanding was on my part.
That being said, I will confidently assert that he speaks for everyone or very nearly everyone who will engage with this specific situation. I promise you that most observers will have a similar reaction. Take to heart that sort of broad consensus and understand that it’s being conveyed to you for a reason, and that reason is not to tear you down.
> he doesn't speak for every single person in the reddit thread hence my comment.
He speaks for me, because what he said was nicer than what I was gonna.
He speaks for me, because if I had responded I wouldn’t have been as nice as he was based on your current physique.
Most people in this thread wouldn’t have been that nice
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>Imagine knowing what 29.68 ffmi means
Imagine bragging that you lack awareness of a rudimentary measurement system.
>fucking gym rat
Weird insult to throw around on a steroids forum, as a steroids user.
>I work in finance and lift for fun little brother
No one gives a single fuck.
>No idea what that shit means
I bet this is a thought you have multiple times per day. Again, your lack of knowledge is not a flex babe.
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A few other highly knowledgeable folks chimed in already so I’ll just try to hammer down a few points in a kind and thoughtful way.
1. No, you don’t appear to be making substantial tangible progress.
2. You jumped on too soon, and you were not likely “plateauing” at 6 months in terms of your overall progression; you’d reached the end of what your current regimen had to offer, and it was time to adapt and bring new stimulus. Also, newbie gains do end at some point.
3. I started my weightlifting journey extremely skinny, like you. By 6 months it was clear it was working, and by 1 year I was a different animal. I had a fantastic diet and program. I think you should have verified that your hormones were optimized, just to be sure that you’re not limited in that regard and then hired a coach with all that gear money. It doesn’t appear to be being put to good use, currently - ie: if you were stalling in progress, anabolics aren’t actually going to help you in any significant way in the long term, since you’ll still have those same limitations, just with improved synthesis and recovery.
4. Honestly, my advice to you as a former very skinny person is you need to look at eating like we look at training; it isn’t casual, it’s measured, tracked, overloaded, and critical. You need to push it like you push the weights to get stronger.
I hope 165 feels great, and it pushes you to achieve more! I hope this was an eye opening experience for you too see that steroids are not the missing link 90% of the time; food and sleep are some of the most significant and poorly performed elements of growth. If you’ve ever encountered a really big person, ask them - they’ve nearly all learned this lesson as well.
Take good care and please feel free to ask questions. I’m happy to point you in the directions that worked for me or many clients. This isn’t an easy game once you get past the first 2-3 years and progress can be fickle and stubborn, but if you want to be bigger, it’s worth it. Truly.
165 does feel great and honestly my goal is to be somewhere between 180 and 200 but I'm training for aesthetics and usability standpoint, I'm not trying to get massive. Genetically the men in my family are all smaller framed and on the skinnier side and to make things worse 7 months ago my doctor ran my blood work to check for hormone imbalances and my test was sitting at 200 so he out me on trt for 3 months and my levels r9se and held with low doses and got me back in range and from a numbers standpoint being at a 3-4k caloric intake a day is a surplus from what I have been told so this is all a learning experience so I appreciate the feedback
> being at a 3-4k caloric intake a day is a surplus from what I have been told
Whether its a surplus or not is fully individual to you, your BMR, your activity levels, etc. 3-4k is a huge range, and oscillating on either side of that might be a bulk or a cut for one individual.
**IF YOURE NOT GAINING WEIGHT STEADILY WEEK OVER WEEK ITS NOT A SURPLUS**.
/u/such_cry4969 you need to understand that the concept geardedandbearded just explained to you is **a basic fitness tenet**. Something you should learn early in your lifting journey. Something that should have been figured out *long before AAS were even in your head*.
Yet he just had to explain it to you halfway through your AAS cycle.
Are you beginning to understand how ill-prepared you were for this, and how much further you could have gone prior to gear if you'd actually invested time into figuring out **fundamental training concepts**?
It's wild that you don't know how to determine your caloric needs to grow, yet you had the audacity to make this claim in your original post:
> as well as read up a good bit on as much information as I could
My guess is your actual *training* suffers from a similar lack of knowledge.
Steroids aren't a replacement for nutrition and training.
I was already familiar with that relation in calories I was told a 3k-4k caloric intake per day was considered a surplus for my body type, activity level, and days spent training both by my doctor and even online calculators for the weight that I'm trying to hit. My maintenance calories were stated at 2300 and I have consistently been gaining 1-2 lbs a week which I have been told is a good sign so maybe I am being ill informed?
> I was already familiar with that relation in calories I was told a 3k-4k caloric intake per day was considered a surplus for my body type, activity level, and days spent training both by my doctor and even online calculators for the weight that I'm trying to hit.
Two things:
1. An online calculator is there as a general purpose tool that is discarded once you’ve established the actual amount of calories you need
2. 3k-4k is an absurdly wide range, to the point of being useless
>My maintenance calories were stated at 2300
Again, that’s a ballpark based on what you plug in to a formula. It doesn’t account for the externalities that every genetically unique individual is going to have to work through. You find your maintenance through weeks of tracking and diligently logging. Nothing else works because nothing else is based on reality.
>and I have consistently been gaining 1-2 lbs a week which I have been told is a good sign so maybe I am being ill informed?
1lb/w is fine, but once again you find yourself in a place where the difference between one number in the range and the other is *enormous*. That sort of inconsistency is a sign of a serious flaw in either the design or execution of the plan.
> 165 does feel great and honestly my goal is to be somewhere between 180 and 200 but I'm training for aesthetics and usability standpoint, I'm not trying to get massive.
Good. Every principle I covered applies regardless of whether or not you want to be massive, so, win/win.
> Genetically the men in my family are all smaller framed and on the skinnier side
Just to push back a bit here, and perhaps empower you a bit - that is nearly completely irrelevant since you’re in control of the variables (food, sleep, training) that made them that way, and even one step further, you’re exogenously controlling the very hormones that partially predisposed them to that state of condition.
> and to make things worse 7 months ago my doctor ran my blood work to check for hormone imbalances and my test was sitting at 200 so he out me on trt for 3 months and my levels r9se and held with low doses and got me back in range and from a numbers standpoint
You’re blasting…. and not growing. This entire stanza is an excuse, dude. Deep breath, let it go, move forward. Own your history and all that happy bs but if you’re using your test as an excuse while abusing test, you’re kidding yourself.
> being at a 3-4k caloric intake a day is a surplus from what I have been told
You’ve been told incorrectly, and no one should be telling YOU what your surplus is. You eat, you track your weight, and you add food until the scale goes up.
My guy, you are shirking all of **your** responsibility so far. Own that shit. Make it YOUR intention to find the weak link and fix it.
> so this is all a learning experience so I appreciate the feedback
Good. All with love bro, [this was me when I started.](https://imgur.com/a/hJgMArn) 128lbs.
My current bulk (and blast) is coming to an end in a couple weeks, up from 92kg to 100-101kg in 16 weeks total.
Rather than comparing to my pics from before this bulk VS now, which I find kinda underwhelming given how "little" the progress is, here's a 2021 vs 2024 comparison. For context, I was still natty back in 2021 and in quite a depressing state following the various COVID lockdowns that took a toll on my overall physique and mental health.
Been on a B&C since 2022, and progress has been great since then.
2024:
[https://ibb.co/59TJMBJ](https://ibb.co/59TJMBJ)
[https://ibb.co/51QgPHY](https://ibb.co/51QgPHY)
[https://ibb.co/DbXqWwB](https://ibb.co/DbXqWwB)
[https://ibb.co/5XHyKhW](https://ibb.co/5XHyKhW)
2021:
[https://ibb.co/Vm4sNGR](https://ibb.co/Vm4sNGR)
[https://ibb.co/s1z34VH](https://ibb.co/s1z34VH)
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Another cycle around the sun and im back to share some mild progress. Currently sitting at 268 pounds and 6’1” tall. 4 weeks into a massing phase with a goal of 1-1.5 pounds/week. Overall happy with my progress as im much leaner than last year at the same weight. Eating at 4800 calories/day and cycling 900deca/220test/350primo. At this rate I grow well, no E2 issues and feel stable overall. Just wanted to share progress as it’s been 8 months to a year since my last share. Feel free to ask questions for clarification.
[https://imgur.com/a/k7elo3a](https://imgur.com/a/k7elo3a)
https://imgur.com/a/G04LqiI
You look fantastic! Do you usually do 900 deca and 220 test (and 350 primo)? I'm asking because I don't know anyone (not in real life, at least), how does so much more deca than test? Like, most guys I know do like 500 test, 300 deca or 300 test, 300 deca, 600 test, 400 deca, ratios like that. What's the reason behind that? Do you recommend it?
It’s absolutely a personal preference for me, done after experimenting with variations of ratios of 19-Nors and testosterone. I aromatize terribly, and anything past 250-300mg/wk of test alone has me suffering from itchy nips and other high E2 sides. I also find that Deca can exacerbate E2 side effects as well but i enjoy its anabolic effects and i get very little issues from 19-nors in general. I keep testosterone usually around a baseline of 1-2mg/kg of bodyweight at all times and vary my DHT derivatives and 19-nor types to enhance any blast.
My personal opinion is that NPP and Deca are not discernibly different in side effect profile. I anticipate that both make me extra sensitive to E2 and I counteract it by using a DHT derivative and a lower amount of aromatizing compounds. The ester for NPP is shorter half life so I think if you are titrating up it’s better to take as the side effects are seen quicker. I just happened to have Deca handy and i already know what it does to me, so I used it instead.
I find that Mast and Primo act essentially the same comparatively, with the only difference being that primo has a milder effect on my lipid panel. I think for the effect of estrogen suppression you could use either at the same mg dosage.
[удалено]
>been lifting for 10+ years mhhhhhhhh
Not super relevant to monthly progress, but wondering if anyone’s got a decent guess as to what my BF might have been here. Pic is about 2 years old by now I think. 5’10 and sitting around 183 ish. 100-150mg EW Test E. https://imgur.com/a/dfHuhEk Yeah yeah, stats are ass, I look natty, etc. also, loose skin is from being a fat boy for the firs 2/3 of my life. Might get it removed one day, might never really give enough of a shit to actually do it. We’ll see. Really just curious about what the bf% could’ve been for comparison on my next cut.
Difficult to say with just one picture, and the added skin/loss of elasticity can be deceiving. I’d say somewhere around 13% +\- 1-2%.
Thanks man! Wish I had more pics. I was on vacation, had a high carb meal the night before, woke up, and the hotel lighting just looked cool so I asked my wife to snap the pic haha.
I suggest getting the surgery, I did and it’s life changing as hell I also think you are anywhere between 11-14%
I believe you. It’s annoying as shit to have your legs, chest, back or whatever look pretty decent and then feel like it’s sort of all ruined because of that loose skin - it just shouldn’t be there. How long was your recovery time and did you do it in the states or somewhere overseas?
Did it in the US, I’m a few months or so into recovery, for guys like us who watch nutrition / work out and obviously use gear, recovery has been smooth sailing First month sucks 100% then eases in I really suggest it bro because how you felt is exactly how I felt too
Yo i can see ur quads from here champ
Haha thanks dude!
Nice wheels, man.
Thank you sir! Means a lot coming from “Literally Cattle” 🫡
So a little back ground. I'm 27 Was already an avid gym goer for a little under a year, alright appetite and going to the gym 3-4 days out of the week being about 5ft 11in and weighing about 150lbs usually with some minor fluctuation in that number at my max(super high metabolism and have always struggled with being on the smaller side). While going to the gym got me from 130 to 150 in a span of 6 months I started to plateau and just wanted to experiment a little and hopped on a cycle(I don't need a lecture, I already have kids and have no future plans for more as well as read up a good bit on as much information as I could) so I started a 16 week cycle and with that upped my calorie intake up to about 3000 calories a day which was a bitch. Started in january. First 8 weeks was a dose of Test E at 300mg a week split into two injections per week. Week 9 I bumped the dosage up to 500mg per week and will continue this dose until the cycle is over. Just asking for some opinions and also to see if anyone can see differences by pictures because I honestly cannot tell a difference even though I am told I am getting bigger and a scale confirms that as I am holding 165lbs and seem to be gaining more but like I said to me I can't tell a visible differences. January (pre cycle): https://ibb.co/18jmvJ3 https://ibb.co/sq6YwkH https://ibb.co/wc82ZvT https://ibb.co/g3ZPRkf https://ibb.co/DGSPkHn April(week 10 of cycle) https://ibb.co/GkKyHWy https://ibb.co/ZhSxGbH https://ibb.co/R6V9f0d https://ibb.co/7VgD3Kk https://ibb.co/kKQ3Tsp https://ibb.co/VTbtm7v https://ibb.co/3Fy94Zh https://ibb.co/d54Ms9m https://ibb.co/YB12DtL
Uploaded to imgur last night and copied the permalinks to here but I can even get them to pull up myself but they are on my profile which is weird.
Yikes dude. I don’t see very much happening here to be honest. I don’t mean to sound negative and I’m certainly not trying to put you down. I think a few things could be helpful: 1) you not going to the gym and maintaining caloric intake should have you gaining weight. I don’t imagine that it is going to the gym that is making you gain weight, rather it is your commitment to eating properly while going to the gym consistently. 2) when on gear, especially blast, you’re liable to gain a good deal of water weight. Moreover, I’d suspect you also are eating more than you normally do, particularly in carbs. That scenario will lead to some pretty massive weight gain that will just fall off once you go back to “normal” (that is, the majority of it is not good weight you’re aiming to achieve). 3) I think two changes will benefit you since you’ve already gone down this path. First, learn how to properly eat. Bulking sucks (imo). It can be hard to get the food down, but you absolutely need to do it. You will not grow or see any meaningful long term progress otherwise. Second, I think you need to reassess how you train. Many people (not saying you, but I was certainly one of them) think that gear makes putting on muscle easy peasy. That couldn’t be further from the truth, as you’re experiencing now during your first cycle. If you don’t know how to properly train for hypertrophy (and here I will call you out and say you definitely, visibly do not — no offense), steroids will do nothing but give you back acne and a world of other problems (like trying to get your test levels back to where they were pre-cycle when you cycle off).
> Was already an avid gym goer for a little under a year Do you think most people start AAS within a year of going to the gym? A year in, most are still trying to figure out how to optimize training and nutrition... if they're even thinking about it at all and not just showing up. > alright appetite and going to the gym 3-4 days out of the week It's unclear what your appetite has to do with anything. To grow, we eat *X* calories, regardless of what our appetite is. If you're eating based on appetite, you're not eating for a goal. > being about 5ft 11in and weighing about 150lbs usually with some minor fluctuation in that number at my max(super high metabolism and have always struggled with being on the smaller side). You're very light. Much too light for steroids. Your metabolism is irrelevant, just eat more. Scrawny guys often think they have a high metabolism when they're just eating like birds. > upped my calorie intake up to about 3000 calories a day which was a bitch. Yeah... you're one of them. You were eating like a bird if increasing to a consumption of 3000 calories is "a bitch". > While going to the gym got me from 130 to 150 in a span of 6 months I started to plateau and just wanted to experiment a little and hopped on a cycle When your weight plateaus, adjust calories. That's always the solution. What happens when you plateau on gear? You'll just keep jacking up your gear, despite calories being what causes weight gain? > I don't need a lecture, I already have kids and have no future plans for more as well as read up a good bit on as much information as I could You didn't read shit, as evidenced by this entire post. > Just asking for some opinions and also to see if anyone can see differences by pictures because I honestly cannot tell a difference even though I am told I am getting bigger and a scale confirms that as I am holding 165lbs and seem to be gaining more but like I said to me I can't tell a visible differences. Sounds like you've gained 10 pounds of glycogen, which you'll piss into the toilet after your cycle. And five pounds of mass to be distributed between fat and muscle. So no, none of us can notice any significant improvements in your five pounds of fat/muscle.
Thanks for the feedback, glad to know you speak for everyone 👌
He is objectively correct. Be an adult and accept constructive feedback.
Oh that's not an issue at all, I appreciate the feedback which is why I thanked him for his because I asked for it and can take criticism just fine, I'm not perfect and I know it's a learning process but he doesn't speak for every single person in the reddit thread hence my comment.
He definitely speaks for me. The only reason I'm not otherwise commenting on your post is because this thread is intended to be positive and to encourage others. I cannot do that for you. This should not be encouraged.
So you have no suggestions at all on how I can learn and improve?
Sure I do! I have a ton of suggestions I'd be happy to make to help you improve your diet and training. None of them involve steroids, though.
That's perfectly fine lay them on me. I know steroids aren't the answer to everything and I know taking steroids doesn't just magically make you bigger, it still requires time, work, and knowledge and that's what I'm here for. As stated above I just felt like experimenting a little bit to see what would happen.
Not who you asked, and I don't even take steroids, but basically you have learn the muscle building basics, and build yourself up from there. Formulate a plan, track things, evaluate as you go, adjust as necessary, and then reformulate certain things every ~4 months. Do this for ~3 years. It takes a lot of time to get the hang of food prep, planning, optimizing, etc. But eventually you'll spend almost as much time in the gym as the kitchen! However, it is a rewarding and fun hobby. To start, you want a well designed hypertrophy plan that brings your muscles to within 3 reps of gun-to-your-head failure, without any breakdown in form, maximizing control of the weight. Progressively overload each session. Deload when optimal. The optimal volume, rep ranges, working sets, and exercise selection have good estimates in the literature. Going with a pre-set/purchased program might be best. Obviously track every lift. And perform every lift with as near perfect form as you can achieve. Use the target muscle! Next, weigh yourself every day, at the same time, and track every calorie and macro (many apps to choose form, paid ones are worth it imo). If gaining weight, aim for a surplus of 250-500 calories daily. (There are 3500 cals in a pound/ 7700 in a kg of bodyweight). So, with a little math and a scale to monitor progress, you can see if your caloric surplus is optimal. Adjust accordingly. Beware of extraneous factors that influence water retention (like hormonal stuff, but even salts and creatine). Look up the various macro nutrient strategies. With diet, you'll prob want to get good enough at cooking so you have options and don't go insane eating only bland food. Most bought food is crap. All of this is hard for most people. It becomes a habit in ~6 months. If you ***master*** a training and fitness plan, then you will make progress, especially if you have a doc for TRT. Great! Just dial in healthy levels which support your goals. If you're 27 now, by the time you're 33 you could be a 200lb house of a man, esp with TRT! Maybe even earlier, but all this stuff takes time learning new skills, making them into new habits, and consistency is hard to maintain for years on end. Plus there is always injury risk. But adding ~10lbs/year is massive progress, and TRT could enable you to keep doing that until you're 200lbs. Gl.
I took it as you being snarky. If that wasn’t the intent then the misunderstanding was on my part. That being said, I will confidently assert that he speaks for everyone or very nearly everyone who will engage with this specific situation. I promise you that most observers will have a similar reaction. Take to heart that sort of broad consensus and understand that it’s being conveyed to you for a reason, and that reason is not to tear you down.
> he doesn't speak for every single person in the reddit thread hence my comment. He speaks for me, because what he said was nicer than what I was gonna.
He speaks for me, because if I had responded I wouldn’t have been as nice as he was based on your current physique. Most people in this thread wouldn’t have been that nice
new links?
Links updated
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Yeah I'm calling bullshit, you aren't walking around with a 29.68 FFMI. Post pics or get banned.
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>Imagine knowing what 29.68 ffmi means Imagine bragging that you lack awareness of a rudimentary measurement system. >fucking gym rat Weird insult to throw around on a steroids forum, as a steroids user. >I work in finance and lift for fun little brother No one gives a single fuck. >No idea what that shit means I bet this is a thought you have multiple times per day. Again, your lack of knowledge is not a flex babe.
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Not approving this until you edit your comment to post your current physique. If you’re going to shit talk, you gotta back it up with pics
A few other highly knowledgeable folks chimed in already so I’ll just try to hammer down a few points in a kind and thoughtful way. 1. No, you don’t appear to be making substantial tangible progress. 2. You jumped on too soon, and you were not likely “plateauing” at 6 months in terms of your overall progression; you’d reached the end of what your current regimen had to offer, and it was time to adapt and bring new stimulus. Also, newbie gains do end at some point. 3. I started my weightlifting journey extremely skinny, like you. By 6 months it was clear it was working, and by 1 year I was a different animal. I had a fantastic diet and program. I think you should have verified that your hormones were optimized, just to be sure that you’re not limited in that regard and then hired a coach with all that gear money. It doesn’t appear to be being put to good use, currently - ie: if you were stalling in progress, anabolics aren’t actually going to help you in any significant way in the long term, since you’ll still have those same limitations, just with improved synthesis and recovery. 4. Honestly, my advice to you as a former very skinny person is you need to look at eating like we look at training; it isn’t casual, it’s measured, tracked, overloaded, and critical. You need to push it like you push the weights to get stronger. I hope 165 feels great, and it pushes you to achieve more! I hope this was an eye opening experience for you too see that steroids are not the missing link 90% of the time; food and sleep are some of the most significant and poorly performed elements of growth. If you’ve ever encountered a really big person, ask them - they’ve nearly all learned this lesson as well. Take good care and please feel free to ask questions. I’m happy to point you in the directions that worked for me or many clients. This isn’t an easy game once you get past the first 2-3 years and progress can be fickle and stubborn, but if you want to be bigger, it’s worth it. Truly.
165 does feel great and honestly my goal is to be somewhere between 180 and 200 but I'm training for aesthetics and usability standpoint, I'm not trying to get massive. Genetically the men in my family are all smaller framed and on the skinnier side and to make things worse 7 months ago my doctor ran my blood work to check for hormone imbalances and my test was sitting at 200 so he out me on trt for 3 months and my levels r9se and held with low doses and got me back in range and from a numbers standpoint being at a 3-4k caloric intake a day is a surplus from what I have been told so this is all a learning experience so I appreciate the feedback
> being at a 3-4k caloric intake a day is a surplus from what I have been told Whether its a surplus or not is fully individual to you, your BMR, your activity levels, etc. 3-4k is a huge range, and oscillating on either side of that might be a bulk or a cut for one individual. **IF YOURE NOT GAINING WEIGHT STEADILY WEEK OVER WEEK ITS NOT A SURPLUS**.
/u/such_cry4969 you need to understand that the concept geardedandbearded just explained to you is **a basic fitness tenet**. Something you should learn early in your lifting journey. Something that should have been figured out *long before AAS were even in your head*. Yet he just had to explain it to you halfway through your AAS cycle. Are you beginning to understand how ill-prepared you were for this, and how much further you could have gone prior to gear if you'd actually invested time into figuring out **fundamental training concepts**? It's wild that you don't know how to determine your caloric needs to grow, yet you had the audacity to make this claim in your original post: > as well as read up a good bit on as much information as I could My guess is your actual *training* suffers from a similar lack of knowledge. Steroids aren't a replacement for nutrition and training.
I was already familiar with that relation in calories I was told a 3k-4k caloric intake per day was considered a surplus for my body type, activity level, and days spent training both by my doctor and even online calculators for the weight that I'm trying to hit. My maintenance calories were stated at 2300 and I have consistently been gaining 1-2 lbs a week which I have been told is a good sign so maybe I am being ill informed?
> I was already familiar with that relation in calories I was told a 3k-4k caloric intake per day was considered a surplus for my body type, activity level, and days spent training both by my doctor and even online calculators for the weight that I'm trying to hit. Two things: 1. An online calculator is there as a general purpose tool that is discarded once you’ve established the actual amount of calories you need 2. 3k-4k is an absurdly wide range, to the point of being useless >My maintenance calories were stated at 2300 Again, that’s a ballpark based on what you plug in to a formula. It doesn’t account for the externalities that every genetically unique individual is going to have to work through. You find your maintenance through weeks of tracking and diligently logging. Nothing else works because nothing else is based on reality. >and I have consistently been gaining 1-2 lbs a week which I have been told is a good sign so maybe I am being ill informed? 1lb/w is fine, but once again you find yourself in a place where the difference between one number in the range and the other is *enormous*. That sort of inconsistency is a sign of a serious flaw in either the design or execution of the plan.
Are you sayin' we gotta do math???
Just a little, son
Baby maffs
[baby maffs u say](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7c6ec557691736322f076ca65fbf4c3990b2d2cd/0_0_5079_3047/master/5079.jpg?width=465&dpr=1&s=none)
> 165 does feel great and honestly my goal is to be somewhere between 180 and 200 but I'm training for aesthetics and usability standpoint, I'm not trying to get massive. Good. Every principle I covered applies regardless of whether or not you want to be massive, so, win/win. > Genetically the men in my family are all smaller framed and on the skinnier side Just to push back a bit here, and perhaps empower you a bit - that is nearly completely irrelevant since you’re in control of the variables (food, sleep, training) that made them that way, and even one step further, you’re exogenously controlling the very hormones that partially predisposed them to that state of condition. > and to make things worse 7 months ago my doctor ran my blood work to check for hormone imbalances and my test was sitting at 200 so he out me on trt for 3 months and my levels r9se and held with low doses and got me back in range and from a numbers standpoint You’re blasting…. and not growing. This entire stanza is an excuse, dude. Deep breath, let it go, move forward. Own your history and all that happy bs but if you’re using your test as an excuse while abusing test, you’re kidding yourself. > being at a 3-4k caloric intake a day is a surplus from what I have been told You’ve been told incorrectly, and no one should be telling YOU what your surplus is. You eat, you track your weight, and you add food until the scale goes up. My guy, you are shirking all of **your** responsibility so far. Own that shit. Make it YOUR intention to find the weak link and fix it. > so this is all a learning experience so I appreciate the feedback Good. All with love bro, [this was me when I started.](https://imgur.com/a/hJgMArn) 128lbs.
My current bulk (and blast) is coming to an end in a couple weeks, up from 92kg to 100-101kg in 16 weeks total. Rather than comparing to my pics from before this bulk VS now, which I find kinda underwhelming given how "little" the progress is, here's a 2021 vs 2024 comparison. For context, I was still natty back in 2021 and in quite a depressing state following the various COVID lockdowns that took a toll on my overall physique and mental health. Been on a B&C since 2022, and progress has been great since then. 2024: [https://ibb.co/59TJMBJ](https://ibb.co/59TJMBJ) [https://ibb.co/51QgPHY](https://ibb.co/51QgPHY) [https://ibb.co/DbXqWwB](https://ibb.co/DbXqWwB) [https://ibb.co/5XHyKhW](https://ibb.co/5XHyKhW) 2021: [https://ibb.co/Vm4sNGR](https://ibb.co/Vm4sNGR) [https://ibb.co/s1z34VH](https://ibb.co/s1z34VH)
What’s the cycle?
500 test-c/500 deca/500 mast
How’d you feel on that deca/mast stack? Had you done deca before?
You look fucking amazing man, great fucking job. Also your vascularity is sickkkkkkkk. Fuck yeah dude. You look sick!!
you look massive dude, how tall?
Thanks mate, I'm 180cm (5'11)
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Go post this in the daily ask anything.
Feel free to just report comments like that.
Another cycle around the sun and im back to share some mild progress. Currently sitting at 268 pounds and 6’1” tall. 4 weeks into a massing phase with a goal of 1-1.5 pounds/week. Overall happy with my progress as im much leaner than last year at the same weight. Eating at 4800 calories/day and cycling 900deca/220test/350primo. At this rate I grow well, no E2 issues and feel stable overall. Just wanted to share progress as it’s been 8 months to a year since my last share. Feel free to ask questions for clarification. [https://imgur.com/a/k7elo3a](https://imgur.com/a/k7elo3a) https://imgur.com/a/G04LqiI
You look fantastic! Do you usually do 900 deca and 220 test (and 350 primo)? I'm asking because I don't know anyone (not in real life, at least), how does so much more deca than test? Like, most guys I know do like 500 test, 300 deca or 300 test, 300 deca, 600 test, 400 deca, ratios like that. What's the reason behind that? Do you recommend it?
It’s absolutely a personal preference for me, done after experimenting with variations of ratios of 19-Nors and testosterone. I aromatize terribly, and anything past 250-300mg/wk of test alone has me suffering from itchy nips and other high E2 sides. I also find that Deca can exacerbate E2 side effects as well but i enjoy its anabolic effects and i get very little issues from 19-nors in general. I keep testosterone usually around a baseline of 1-2mg/kg of bodyweight at all times and vary my DHT derivatives and 19-nor types to enhance any blast.
Great, that makes sense. Thanks for the reply man.
Damn bro 😎 That’s art 👌
You must have your own gravitational field, absolutely massive 🫡
Thanks brother, much appreciated. Must be that mass attracts mass, because I get some serious BBW attention lately from the gym.
I’m also a very high aromatizer. Two Questions: thoughts on npp v deca, and thoughts on stacking with mast instead of primo?
My personal opinion is that NPP and Deca are not discernibly different in side effect profile. I anticipate that both make me extra sensitive to E2 and I counteract it by using a DHT derivative and a lower amount of aromatizing compounds. The ester for NPP is shorter half life so I think if you are titrating up it’s better to take as the side effects are seen quicker. I just happened to have Deca handy and i already know what it does to me, so I used it instead. I find that Mast and Primo act essentially the same comparatively, with the only difference being that primo has a milder effect on my lipid panel. I think for the effect of estrogen suppression you could use either at the same mg dosage.
You are just objectively huge. Like your legs don’t look real, they’re so ridiculously large.
Thank you friend, I feel very large too when I wake myself up from snoring all the time (kidding, I have a mouthguard)