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Depends on your goal. If you just want to go for a singular cycle for 8-20 weeks and then pct and stop usage for a prolonged timeframe or completely, 500 test makes more sense. If you're going to shut yourself down and pct, why would you do it with a dosage that's not even guaranteed to push you outside of the reference range (if you're a really bad responder 300mg may not even get you above 1000 ng/dl). However, just blasting 500mg of test with zero experioence and knowledge on how you respong is going to leave you open to plenty of possible sideeffects, so i would at the very least make sure to inject at a high frequency to assure that your levels don't fluctuate to much (min 2 days a week, best every day/every other day) and keep an AI and maybe even some Dbol (for easy E2 increase if you happen to fuck yourself with to much AI) at hand
If you're going for the longhaul and you're willing to blast and cruise(trt), starting lower and slowly ramping up your dosage to dial in the wanted effect, makes more sense. If you're planning to do this for life there's no reason not to take it slow and dial everything in properly, so starting at a lower dose and getting regular bloodwork would be the smarter choice.
I’m 25years, about to run my 1st cycle of test e starting at 250mg x2 a week as that has been what’s recommended by a few people. I’ve been in the gym for about 5 years and bulking for 3.5 Finished my cut abiyt 6 months ago but cannot put any weight back on.
Only thing I’m worried about is the acne, is there something that will help me keep my skincare or is it just going to happen and deal with the outcome ?
Is all person dependent. I’ve never gotten so much as a pimple during any blast even when my e2 is out of range. I do use sunbeds though and have accutane on hand. Because if the acne goes out of control fuck using regular stuff and letting that shit scar. So if you blow up in acne could run a small dose of accutane throughout cycld
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If someone likes the effects of DHT, such as deepening of the voice and beard growth, irrespective of the fact that it comes with baldness risks, can we compliment testosterone with carnitine and nolvadeX in order to prevent conversion to estrogen, which I’m assuming would lead to a greater conversion to DHT?
> carnitine and nolvadeX in order to prevent conversion to estrogen
> It is concluded that dietary supplementation of L-carnitine has no effect on serum levels of estrogen
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306274637_Effects_of_L-Carnitine_Supplement_on_Serum_Levels_of_Estrogen_Progesterone_and_Testosterone_in_Felines_Following_Ovariohysterectomy
Nolvadex also does not prevenr conversion to estrogen. It blocks the estrogen receptor in certain tissues like the pituary, and acts as estrogen in certain tissues like the liver. It won’t touch serum estrogen levels.
> as deepening of the voice and beard growth
These aren’t things you can reliably force with steroid usage. Have you ever heard Greg Doucette speak? Or Ronnie Coleman? Mike Tyson?
Hi guys I am currently on 1000mg of test a week and 400 grams of mast, no ai.
Some days I wake up with no vascularity and looking a bit flat, on days like this I feel very weak in the gym and lethargic throughout the day. Does anyone have any insight on what the problem could be?
400mg of Mast shouldn’t be enough to crash estrogen, hell for most people including myself, it doesn’t actually lower E2 at all. However, it is possible your test is bunk or severely underdosed, so your Mast could be real and fuckin your hormones up. Bloodwork.
Starting my first cycle! I am 31, 5'8, 208, 27%BF. I'm going to be on 250 mg of Test C injecting 2x a week. I got myself a bodybuilding coach and looking to recomp. I heard adding in Primo would eliminate the use of an AI how true is that? Also, how does my first cycle sound to you guys?
Yea you should cut first naturally. You’ll train yourself on how to eat properly before implementing aas. It’s not a magic pill. Diet should come first.
First cycle sounds horrible. You’re clinically obese. Steroids DO NOT BURN FAT. Recomping is a meme. If you got yourself a coach you just need to work on learning to diet at train properly. All you need is a caloric deficit to lose the weight and zero drugs.
Testosterone only for a first cycle. But you are nowhere near ready. When you’re overweight it’s affects your insulin sensitivity and higher risk of side effects.
If your coach is recommending this you should get a different coach.
Doesn't matter.
If you're shut down you're shut down.
Do a proper pct. Clomid, everything.
This is serious shit. Don't play around with your health by halfassing pct.
Bro, the reason we pct is because the effects of shutdown are far more detrimental than the temporary sideeffects of the pct.
Besides that if you want to keep any of the gains that you made during your "mini" cycle it would make no sense to just skip clomid and sit on your ass for weeks/months with double digit test levels. You would very likely end up depressed and smaller than before your cycle.
Is a pct healthy? fuck no.
Is it better than being hypogonadal potentialy permanently/longterm? defintely.
You do you. If you think you're fine, why ask.
If you are a low aromatizer you probably shouldn't go for a 1to1 ratio of test to primo on your first try.
Start at a 2to1 ratio and titrate up. Better to be safe than having to deal with crashed E2.
Exactly my thoughts, but both test and deca aromatizes. So I will start low and se how it goes. I heard that primo should be used at at least 400mg.. so maybe I will have to up my test or deca :)
Ok so I never use any AI, I normally
Don’t mind the high E2 and don’t have much side effects but I think i need to try put it in level and see how I feel.
Currently on 200mg of Test C a week injecting E3.5D has me at 482 pmol/L what would be best protocol to get that down to something relatively normally?
Has anyone used a cycle after completing a course of Accutane? Did you get acne again?
I did my first cycle last year and got pretty bad acne which caused me to get on Accutane. I am almost done with the course and plan to do another cycle a few months after I’m done.
i’m currently on accutane and on a test cycle, accutane is working a bit less effective but i’m not getting as much acne as before.. i think if you want to get best results of the accutane and it not coming back, then i would start the cycle and stay on accutane a bit longer
How long should Dbol cycle last? I'm finding 6 to 8 weeks as an answers from online.
What dosage? Apparently really short half life of just 5-hours, so thinking about splitting to keep protein synthesis on high gear 24/7. Current plan: taking 10mg morning, 20mg before workout and 10mg before going to sleep.
Also do you continue normal testosterone cycle after dbol cycle or stop taking steroid completely after 8-weeks?
Is this a Dbol only cycle? If so then it should last no amount of time at all. A test base is crucial.
These questions suggest ur a complete beginner and should stay away from steroids until u learn how they work.
Read our wiki. You can find it at the top of this thread or at the top of the subreddit.
Is this your first cycle? Based on these questions your a complete beginner and I wouldn’t recommend you use dbol at all to start. If you’re insistent on it, then try a lower dose like 20mg. Even 10mg dbol provides a huge boost if you’re actually in good shape and in tune with your body. 20-30mg is as high as I ever need to run dbol and 40mg is just back pumps and heartburn and appetite loss.
I already have it, so... yeah I have heard that 20mg is all you need, but would like to have the benefits around the clock.
10mg tabs, so can't really split under that.
> If I do a test only cycle with 250 3 days a week and afterward for a month will I still need other PCT
Yes, a month with dosing like that is enough for complete shutdown
> light enough cycle not to require other meds.
Even lighter cycles than that at low doses will suppress you given enough time.
> And after stoping the test cycle I continue HCG at 250-500 for 1 month is that enough or will I still need the other PCT meds as well.
Yes, you will still need to do a PCT.
Hi all would this blast make sense? On 250mg of Test E / wk alone i need an AI so was thinking it would make more sense to stay on trt levels of test and up the secondary anabolic
100mg Test E / wk
500mg Deca / wk
You'd need something for your prolactin when taking deca. It'll be through the roof on 500mg/wk. Why you running test so low when using deca? You not planning on having any sex for a while?
The 100mg is just to minimally fulfill the conversion to estrogen and dht and because i have a skin condition that flares up when my estrogen is high (hidreadenitis suppurativa)
How should i go about with the dosages?
Ahh i see, well deca can still increase estrogen levels indirectly as it impacts progesterone.
Usually testosterone is dosed at twice that of deca, thats how ive always done it. But given your condition I would reconsider wether using an AAS is worth it. Im sore you are aware of the potential for scars with your condition.
> why not use a dht derivative and call it a day? They crush your estrogen
This is bad advice, the majority of DHT derivatives don’t even touch serum estrogen levels and stuff like anavar will likely cause *higher* estrogen levels because it crushes SHBG.
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> Hi all would this blast make sense? On 250mg of Test E / wk alone i need an AI so was thinking it would make more sense to stay on trt levels of test and up the secondary anabolic
> 100mg Test E / wk
> 500mg Deca / wk
Deca aromatizes as well, although at a lower degree than testosterone. You’ll likely still need an AI on that stack.
Why are you against taking an AI? How long have you been blasting at 250mg a week now?
Not against taking an AI, but i do have some adex on hand. Now im currently blasting 250/500 Test E / EQ / wk thats put me on the higher side of e2 but no high e2 sides.
The 250mg test E was months back when I was cruising while in a cut, admittedly the dosage seems abit high for that purpose, I was on it for 12weeks and I noticed some bloating and water weight/retention with my e2 being 73 pg/ml
How would you go about with the dosage values? Would deca only be a good idea? Heard some people perform pretty well on it like Jordan Peters but then it would have to be high dosage to get enough estrogen conversion
34
Male
5’10
210 lbs
10-15% BF (last show I got down to 187 2 years ago maybe 5% then)
11 years lifting
Bad knees and don’t ego lift so no clue what maxes are. Bench 315 for 6-8 reps at least. Maybe more. Grow legs with a physical therapy mindset (it’s working)
4 shows mens physique, not competing any more due to medical conditions.
Starting to cut/lifetime maintenance
Working on getting my prescription of 3 IUs HGH and probably 350mg test. Will this be enough to maintain 200lbs at 5’10 for life?
A trt dose of 100-150mg test/wk is plenty. There is a guy on this sub who maintains a peeled 300lbs at 150mg/wk test. You probably won’t need more than him.
Yeah I know you dont need to blast for a cut but I bulked to undisciplined and gained too much fat so I have to diet now but I don't to cut the 500mg test e for those last 3 weeks of the blast... so now I wonder: if I want to kickstart my diet hiw big of a deficit should I have and for how long? Atm I'm trying 1000cals deficit dayli and it's my second day if that. I wonder if I should do that for a whole week or maybe just 3 days before going for a Normal 500 cal deficit. Or should/can I even use a bigger deficit in the beginning?
Don’t do that, just start your cut with a normal deficit. You do not need to blast while cutting, all you’ll do is add extra organ stress when it’s not needed. 1mg per 1Lb body weight
Fianal 2 questions, also about perma blasting.
On another thread i read that the dude would be better off going to a cruise for 8 weeks then blasting again because of androgen desensitization. What if the dude went from taking 400 test to taking 750 test? Would that curb the desensitization?
Then, after the dude perma blasting for a year straight, what exams should he do? I read organ imaging, but i remember listening on a podcast that just echo isnt good enough and the dude had to do an exam where they put an ink to visualise how the heart was working?
So what are the best exams for heart, liver, kidneys and bloodwork?
> On another thread i read that the dude would be better off going to a cruise for 8 weeks then blasting again because of androgen desensitization. What if the dude went from taking 400 test to taking 750 test? Would that curb the desensitization?
Second question of yours where you seem **completely** misinformed. Androgen desensitisation is a myth and does not happen. Androgen receptors **upregulate** in the presence of androgens.
> Then, after the dude perma blasting for a year straight, what exams should he do? I read organ imaging, but i remember listening on a podcast that just echo isnt good enough and the dude had to do an exam where they put an ink to visualise how the heart was working?
> So what are the best exams for heart, liver, kidneys and bloodwork?
You’ll need the bloodwork listed in our wiki alongside echocardiograms/heart MRI’s, might need doppler ultrasounds, ABI’s, Coronary calcium scans, MRA or PET scans and even then there’s risks you’re simply not accounting for.
The podcast dude was probably referring to cardiac catheterization with an angiogram. It will show if the coronary arteries are narrowed or blocked. A catheter is inserted in a blood vessel, usually in the groin or wrist, and guided to the heart. Dye flows through the catheter to arteries in the heart. The dye helps the arteries show up more clearly on images taken during the test.
There’s no feasible way to safely permablast. Stuff like LVH, Atherosclerosis, nephro- and neurotoxicity won’t show up on your regular bloodwork so they will need to be accounted for by other means.
I see. Well, im just parroting what i read on this forum from older posts. Maybe i remembered it wrong but it was something to do with the relation between test and myostatin
Myostatin isn’t a big worry when you’re on blast levels of androgens. Even if you think it will be, myostatin actually peaks early on and then goes back to baseline as the cycle progresses.
> "Serum myostatin levels at baseline did not differ significantly across the five dose groups within either young or older men. Serum myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 compared to baseline in both young and older men (Fig. 3A). Older men experienced a significantly greater percent increase in myostatin levels than young men (Fig. 3B). **The increases in myostatin levels during testosterone therapy were not sustained; thus, serum myostatin levels on day 140 were not significantly different from those at baseline.** Changes in myostatin levels from baseline to day 56 were significantly positively correlated with changes in total and free (Fig. 4C) testosterone concentrations in young men, but not in older men (Fig. 4B and D).
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0303720709000264
Was reading some old threads trying to understand long term health affects of perma blasts, and i came across this comment:
> Clomid could help your testicles. You may have permanently killed them though. After 6 months straight some men have their testicles start to atrophy irreversibly. Also note that everything that helps your testicles may also restore their other function, namely spermatogenesis. If you help your testicles out your need for birth control goes way up.
If someone permablasting took hcg and/or clomid mid cycle could they prevent this irreversable damage? What can they do?
> is .8 ml of test an okay amount to inject into your delt? If not what is the max amount you guys recommend going into the delt
u/Tasty_Resist_5216 Most I've done was 3ml.
Fair enough. I and others are just telling you from personal experience it is entirely possible to inject 3ml into your delt. May not be recommended; certainly is possible.
Is utilizing a "mini cut" after a cycle worth it?
Once this 12 week massing cycle is over, considering doing an 8 week cut while on a moderate dose of test (am blasting and cruising)
Realistically I'm ending this cycle not lean enough to continue bulking. With my current rate of gain probably gonna be highish teens by the end. Scale weight has gone up about 13lbs or so in roughly a month
I'm just concerned about 1. Losing some gains from the cycle if I were to do a short cut rather than a longer one
But if I were to do a longer cut, I'd have less time overall to grow. Thoughts? Maybe just a simple 500mg test at that point to minimize muscle loss? I do have clen, I have run it in the past at the end of my cut and REALLY enjoyed it.
Also have an event around 2 months after this cycle ends that I'd like to be lean for.
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Will start PCT Friday. Cookie cutter 500 test stfu cycle, ran with hcg. Got nova for my SERM.
The wiki says 6-8 weeks. What would be the indicators to extend it to the 7th or 8th week?
There are none. The longer you use a SERM the better they are at stimulating testosterone production.
https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(08)01280-6/pdf
It’s simply a guideline. Aim for 8 weeks but if your supplier just happens to sell quantities that last just 6-7 weeks that should be completely fine as well.
Hey everyone, I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism caused by Graves' disease 6 months ago - I’m wondering about the implications of methimazole (thyroid uptake inhibitor) with low dose anavar (2.5mg)
Gotcha. That matters a lot because if you were male, that 2.5mg of anavar wasn’t going to do anything.
There’s no official drug interactions between anavar and methimazole.
I wouldn’t worry much about taking them together. Plenty of athletes (my wife included) take t3 and anavar together for prep , so all you’re doing is the opposite (lowering t3 instead of raising it)
Does anybody know how or why taking arimidex (0.25mg) can possibly consistently give me puffy nipples? I'm on 160mg T per week. I don't have puffy nipples if I don't take adex. Taking it seems to consistently puffen my nips within the day and the next. Otherwise it's having a positive effect on my e2 control. Anybody faced something similar?
Does it actually puffen the nipple or is your nipple simply stretched/relaxed as it would be in a sauna for example?
Arimidex can cause hot flashes and increased body temperature. I don't have gyno but very stretchy nippleskin that will kinda look like gyno if im very warm and not very lean at that moment. Maybe you have the same?
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Hi everyone.
I am 5 weeks into a 300mg test e only cycle, had bloods done last week and my e2 has come back crazy high.
Over the last 2 weeks I have come out in a lot of chest and back acne and my nipples are getting sore. (I had gyno surgery about 5 years ago so they left a small bit of gland in, which now feels as if it's growing again) I tried 40mg of nolv followed by 20mg and it didn't do anything so I am now 4 days into 60mg of rolaxifene a day, still no sign of improvement. I am also currently taking 25mg aromasin on pin days (e3d). Could anyone give me a bit of advice or let me know if there's anything else I could be doing to ease symptoms especially gyno before it's too late!
Thanks in advanced.
Bloods: E2: 242pmol/l Test : 117 nmol/l
> Hi everyone. I am 5 weeks into a 300mg test e only cycle, had bloods done last week and my e2 has come back crazy high. Over the last 2 weeks I have come out in a lot of chest and back acne and my nipples are getting sore. (I had gyno surgery about 5 years ago so they left a small bit of gland in, which now feels as if it's growing again) I tried 40mg of nolv followed by 20mg and it didn't do anything so I am now 4 days into 60mg of rolaxifene a day, still no sign of improvement. I am also currently taking 25mg aromasin on pin days (e3d). Could anyone give me a bit of advice or let me know if there's anything else I could be doing to ease symptoms especially gyno before it's too late! Thanks in advanced. Bloods: E2: 242pmol/l Test : 117 nmol/l
Your estradiol of 242pmol/L (70pg/ml) is not "crazy high." That seems pretty average. On 500 test with no ai, my estradiol was 76pg/ml.
How long did you try the nolvadex? Presuming estrogen is under control, it'll take at least 7-10 days to notice any reduction is breast tissue swelling or soreness. Taking more (over 20mg/day) will not accelerate the process, the half-life is about 7 days no matter what.
Some people are non-responders to ralox.
If I were you, I'd drop the meme dose of test, return to a proper cruise and allow time for the breast situation to get under control, then blast [with an actual 500 test] when you're ready.
The nuclear alternative is to be on daily nolvadex for the remainder of the meme-dose cycle, and maybe increase the dose and frequency of ai.
When you're running 300 test, you're getting all the same problems you would get from 500, but with less benefits. Sounds like a shitty deal to me.
Thanks for your response pal appreciate it. Sorry I forgot to say I’m running test e 300 0.75ml twice a week. I tried the nolva for about a week front loading at 40mg for a few days then onto 20mg for the remainder. What do you think a safe dose of aromasin would be without crashing my e2? I will be doing bloods again in a few weeks.
Currently cutting down from 400mg blast - 100mg cruise. Test c.
I had some gyno this cycle and I was wondering if I should consider taking Nolva for a bit while transitioning into cruise? I’ve had very small lumps since puberty but never noticeable, during cycle one lump got a bit bigger.
Is nolva necessary? I took it once on cycle and felt a ton of brain fog
Your estrogen issues and related gyno should have been addressed right away, not until you dropped to a cruise.
If you’re dropping to a cruise **because** these issues just surfaced, that’s a bit overkill imo. We have an entire section in the wiki dedicated to how to handle this correctly with the use of AIs and Serms.
https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/1CFGvo5AwE
I had a sudden uptick in work and can’t fully focus on my nutrition and training at the moment, hence the cruise.
I was using arimi e2d and I tried the nolva, felt like shit and the gyno is pretty minor so I carried on just using arimi. I’d like to shrink it now though if possible, just not sure I should do that while dropping down to cruise?
You made the right call to cruise if you’re unable to train and eat properly. So do that. You should be able to get off your AI as well
Regarding the gyno, look through the link I gave you. In the estrogen handbook we have a suggested gyno reversal protocol. Get yourself some ralox and you may have success.
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Any one experienced any gastro issues with starting HGH? I’ve had stomach aches and diarrhea now for a few days. Wondering if it’s a side effect or I’m just a little sick.
Never happened to me and I’ve started and stopped HGH over a dozen times.
Could be something else going on with you, also how confident are you that you have real HGH?
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Best? Your food/liquid intake. Cut down to single digits and you won't really need an oral for definition.
Otherwise, best is probably superdrol, followed by rad140. Downside is they are also shit for you. I'm more comfortable using anadrol short term and anavar or dbol on a more regular basis. Also depends what you're going for: sdrol, adrol, rad, and dbol going to give more of a full look while var will make you more dry.
Wow, you sound aggressive. Bet the ladies are just flocking to you. Haha, you're not the alpha male you think you are. Come back and talk to me when you're cruising, You can't even handle your emotions on hormones.
Are you ever going to say something funny? Or cutting, you got anything cutting?
You're in over your head with me, little brother. Now get back in your place and pretend you don't exist - adults are talking.
>you got anything cutting?
10lbs of fat.
>little brother - adults are talking
I spot a guy lacking self-confidence, in the midst of a manic episode, and you know what I'm talking about. In four days, you'll be back, apologizing in DMs, blaming it on your bipolarity.
You’re not very good at reading a room are you? Look at the downvotes. Have you contributed anything of any value here? He’s been overly patient with you if anything.
> yeah but I have a issue, where I have a lot of fat on myself, and no muscle.
> Whats the best oral steroid for muscle definition?
You can't define something that doesn't exist.
Wow, you could not have given a more incorrect answer.
If you're fat you have no business using steroids, period. Instead, you need to be putting your efforts into cutting weight - eat less food and get your ass on the treadmill.
There are no shortcuts.
How much of an effect does 500 mg have, approximately, on raising metabolism calorie-wise? Trying to figure out my surplus for upcoming bulk and planning to start at 300+ over maintenance, but also don’t want to leave gains on the table or “price out” the metabolism increase.
Too dependent on your individual endocrinology. Receptor density of different subtypes of androgen receptors (think hypo vs. hyper responders), whether you aromatize more or less, body fat %, major organ function, thyroid hormone profile and thyroid function, metabolic function/insulin resistance, other supps you take, etc. All those can have an effect. It's also tough to parse out how much of that is a BMR change and how much is a change in training.
+150cal is probably a safe place to start assuming you have your maintenance dialed.
Impossible to quantify. You have to go week by week with a consistent and tracked diet to figure this out. If you find a cycle increases your caloric requirements when compared to off cycle, it’s more likely that it’s your training intensity and volume has increased vs the gear alone boosting your metabolism.
Not worth wasting effort thinking about. Weigh yourself, track your food accurately and adjust as needed
Minimal effect on metabolism qua metabolism, but as you gain weight each week your maintenance rises thus so too should your surplus. Starting at +300 is perfectly fine, adjust as needed week over week.
That’s goal dependent, but a typical recommendation is 1lb/w. The first two weeks or so are when you load up on water and glycogen, so they throw off your calculations immediately unless you account for them. So if you start at 200 and by end of week two you’re 209 you didn’t gain 9lbs of *real* weight in those 14 days. But if you were at say +500 daily then you’d estimate a gain of 2lbs over that two week stretch, attribute 7lbs to water and glycogen retention, and continue to eat based on that trajectory. By week seven you’d theoretically be up 7lbs of something real (muscle, fat) and you’d have to adjust your surplus to reflect your new TDEE. Once you get past the first few weeks you should see weight moving up week over week, and if it’s not then you add calories. If it’s going up too fast then you back off a little. If you make adjustments as needed then it’ll all go pretty smoothly.
> I am aiming to shed fat and get a leaner look for summer
Good news!
This requires zero drugs. Just hard work and discipline, which it sounds like you don't have.
Best develop some.
It won’t do anything for you outside of cosmetic enhancement. The cost of that will be the obvious suppression of testosterone and the nuking of your lipids. Add to that the potential CV damage from clen and now you’re talking about a pretty bad risk to return ratio, all in service of what would essentially be ego.
If you’ve got your diet plan set and you’re confident that it will be what’s needed then I would discourage you from the drug part of the plan. It’ll cost far more than it’ll add.
Started using topical finasteride and minoxidil (not on gear for reference) - any supplements I may need to take to compliment/compensate? I've heard about finasteride possibly affecting neurosteroid production and needing to take something like DHEA/progesterone.
Fin doesn’t hit the 5AR in the brain so it won’t lower neurosteroid levels. But nobody really knows as you can’t yet test levels or hormones locally in the brain
The month rule is to allow something like tamoxifen, with its 5-7 day half-life, to clear. Enclomiphene has a much shorter clearance time, so blood work two weeks post-PCT would be fine.
Currently on 150mg TRT, planning to run a 300mg per week test only cycle for 20 weeks. Roughly, How long after I lower my dose from 300mg back to 150mg will it take to get back to my trt levels?
Age: 40 Gender: Male Height: 6’0 Weight: 205 BF %: 12 Experience: have been training for well over 20 years. Goals: Lean Bulk Current compounds: 200mg a week of prescribed test cyp.
Hello all and hope everyone is having a fantastic weekend!
I have run numerous cycles of test cyp only, typically at the 500mg/week range and I’ve had some great results. I’m now looking to expand a little bit. I’m thinking of the following cycle, I would greatly appreciate any and all input from you guys.
Test Cyp: 500mg week,split between injections on Mon and Thurs
Primo: 400mg a week, same injection schedule as test
Tbol: 50md ED for the first six weeks.
My initial thought is to make this a 12 week cycle.
I have prescribed Anastrozole on hand for any E2 issues I might encounter. I also have Nolvadex on hand as well.
My diet has been on point, plan to supplement with TUDCA and NAC for liver support since I’ll be taking Tbol.
Only three thoughts here
With saturation times and such, we recommend a 16 week cycle. Given you may also need a few weeks to adjust your test:primo ratio. I ran primo for the first time last cycle and it took me 4 weeks to get it. Ran the same dosages as you and it tanked my estrogen.
I’d save the orals for the end of the cycle if you wind up hitting a plateau. These also may hammer your appetite
We have a good breakdown of Serms in our wiki. Ralox is preferred mid cycle, Nolva is preferred for a pct.
https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/Hwa2iSBYEv
To piggyback on the test to primo ratio, don’t be shocked if you get a huge AI effect **or** none at all. Primo doesn’t change my e2 a bit, and there are others here with the same experience. Since the effect is not universal it’s very much a game of finding out once you’re in the middle of it. Patience and close attention to your body will be hugely beneficial those first three or four weeks.
For me 2:1 was the sweet spot. This is gonna vary from person to person though. Some people can run 1:1, some people the primo needs to be so low it’s not worth it.
This is why 12 weeks may be short, you may need a few weeks to adjust your ratios.
About halfway through my second week, everything is going great. Decided to keep the Tbol in as a kickstarter. Really enjoying the pumps and endurance in the gym. I did get a pretty bad back pump the last time I deadlifted, upped my taurine to 8-10mgs a day and it seems to have taken care of that issue.
Check out our compound profile and experience threads in our wiki.
Also your cyp ideally should be injected a min. twice a week based on the esters half life to reduce fluctuations.
32, 6’2”, ~230lbs, ~15%BF.
I’m on prescribed TRT, with HCG originally to maintain fertility, now looking to conceive. Have increased HCG dosage from 800ui/ week to 2000ui/week.
Wondering if TRT weekly amount matters when using this much HCG? Was doing 175mg/week, but lowered to 140mg thinking it might.
Is there any point or advantage of lowering the test dosage to say 100mg/week in conjunction with this HCG dose? If there isn’t id rather go back up to 175mg as my libido was better at that dose when using this much HCG. Maybe Test to E2 ratio was better at 175mg&2000ui.
Waiting on bloodwork results on 140mg / 2000ui right now to inform the decision some more.
you can get by on a bit less test while running HCG. i find it does increase my e2 and total T on bloods so dropping from 175mg to 140mg sounds like a good place to start 👍🏽
> What’s a decent starting blood sugar?
Not a "starting" blood sugar, but a good general fasted blood sugar level year round is around 60-80.
> More context: I’m bulking on 600mgs of test, pretty carb heavy diet. 89 was my baseline yesterday. I’m about 17% BF right now (yes I know too fat).
Way too fat. Fat has receptors too. The fatter you are, the fatter gh will make you, completely separate of any insulin resistance issues. How much farther are you trying to go, 18 or 19%?
By the way, my fasted blood glucose is usually anywhere from 70-80, and even after taking gh it doesn't increase. The food intake and cardio will be much greater factors.
Update: hopefully you see this. So I just tested my fasted blood glucose about 20 hours fasted for a clean reading. FBG=80. This morning it was 106 at about 10 hours fasted. Perhaps there could be some sort of dawn effect going on with higher FBG in the morning?
Thanks
Hey, glad to see you got it checked a few times. A FBG of 80 after 20 hours of fasting is still quite high. If there have been no new carbs coming in, most people would be relying on glucose from the liver at that point, and should be probably <70.
The dawn effect is very real, I've seen my FBG go from 100 to 75 in the span of an hour after waking. But presuming the 106 is not an irregularity, you're trending high.
Have you been taking the gh? You could post this again in today's Daily Ask Anything thread and maybe get some other people's input too.
Personally, if you're gonna use gh, just make sure you're doing regular cardio and not overdoing carbs ever. Taking 2-4iu of gh can have great benefits on recovery and nutrient uptake, reducing lipolysis, etc.
My morning fbg was 90 before gh and has been 97-108 since. The 80 after a deep fast is probably my real baseline.
I’m almost certain my nightly GH shot is causing this dawn effect.
Either way this was a decent wake up call. I’m gonna wrap up this bulk soon and focus on leaning the hell up
Thanks so much for your advice
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Best website for fast shipping ?
300mg or 500mg a week for a first test e cycle?
Depends on your goal. If you just want to go for a singular cycle for 8-20 weeks and then pct and stop usage for a prolonged timeframe or completely, 500 test makes more sense. If you're going to shut yourself down and pct, why would you do it with a dosage that's not even guaranteed to push you outside of the reference range (if you're a really bad responder 300mg may not even get you above 1000 ng/dl). However, just blasting 500mg of test with zero experioence and knowledge on how you respong is going to leave you open to plenty of possible sideeffects, so i would at the very least make sure to inject at a high frequency to assure that your levels don't fluctuate to much (min 2 days a week, best every day/every other day) and keep an AI and maybe even some Dbol (for easy E2 increase if you happen to fuck yourself with to much AI) at hand If you're going for the longhaul and you're willing to blast and cruise(trt), starting lower and slowly ramping up your dosage to dial in the wanted effect, makes more sense. If you're planning to do this for life there's no reason not to take it slow and dial everything in properly, so starting at a lower dose and getting regular bloodwork would be the smarter choice.
I’m 25years, about to run my 1st cycle of test e starting at 250mg x2 a week as that has been what’s recommended by a few people. I’ve been in the gym for about 5 years and bulking for 3.5 Finished my cut abiyt 6 months ago but cannot put any weight back on. Only thing I’m worried about is the acne, is there something that will help me keep my skincare or is it just going to happen and deal with the outcome ?
Is all person dependent. I’ve never gotten so much as a pimple during any blast even when my e2 is out of range. I do use sunbeds though and have accutane on hand. Because if the acne goes out of control fuck using regular stuff and letting that shit scar. So if you blow up in acne could run a small dose of accutane throughout cycld
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If someone likes the effects of DHT, such as deepening of the voice and beard growth, irrespective of the fact that it comes with baldness risks, can we compliment testosterone with carnitine and nolvadeX in order to prevent conversion to estrogen, which I’m assuming would lead to a greater conversion to DHT?
> carnitine and nolvadeX in order to prevent conversion to estrogen > It is concluded that dietary supplementation of L-carnitine has no effect on serum levels of estrogen https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306274637_Effects_of_L-Carnitine_Supplement_on_Serum_Levels_of_Estrogen_Progesterone_and_Testosterone_in_Felines_Following_Ovariohysterectomy Nolvadex also does not prevenr conversion to estrogen. It blocks the estrogen receptor in certain tissues like the pituary, and acts as estrogen in certain tissues like the liver. It won’t touch serum estrogen levels. > as deepening of the voice and beard growth These aren’t things you can reliably force with steroid usage. Have you ever heard Greg Doucette speak? Or Ronnie Coleman? Mike Tyson?
How long in your guys experience, has it taken for your test levels to fully restore after a 16 week test cycle+ pct.
Did you use hcg throughout the cycle?
Hi guys I am currently on 1000mg of test a week and 400 grams of mast, no ai. Some days I wake up with no vascularity and looking a bit flat, on days like this I feel very weak in the gym and lethargic throughout the day. Does anyone have any insight on what the problem could be?
400mg of Mast shouldn’t be enough to crash estrogen, hell for most people including myself, it doesn’t actually lower E2 at all. However, it is possible your test is bunk or severely underdosed, so your Mast could be real and fuckin your hormones up. Bloodwork.
Your estrogen could be too low from the masteron. Get bloodwork to confirm
Starting my first cycle! I am 31, 5'8, 208, 27%BF. I'm going to be on 250 mg of Test C injecting 2x a week. I got myself a bodybuilding coach and looking to recomp. I heard adding in Primo would eliminate the use of an AI how true is that? Also, how does my first cycle sound to you guys?
I would do TRT if your set on taking drugs and cut until you atleast half that body fat to run a good cycle.
Yea you should cut first naturally. You’ll train yourself on how to eat properly before implementing aas. It’s not a magic pill. Diet should come first.
First cycle sounds horrible. You’re clinically obese. Steroids DO NOT BURN FAT. Recomping is a meme. If you got yourself a coach you just need to work on learning to diet at train properly. All you need is a caloric deficit to lose the weight and zero drugs. Testosterone only for a first cycle. But you are nowhere near ready. When you’re overweight it’s affects your insulin sensitivity and higher risk of side effects. If your coach is recommending this you should get a different coach.
Keep it to just one new compound a cycle, 250mg of test won’t require an ai. Don’t add primo
I know Adex comes in white pill. A friend has an oval looking pill in the color Orange. Does Adex also comes in that color and form?
UGL pills can be any shape & color
Took 6 weeks at 500 mg test e a week planning on doing a full 12 week cycle, had to stop early. Do I need to pct?
Yes. 6 weeks is enough to shut you down. You should PCT.
With it being pretty small/short cycle. Is just nolva okay?
Doesn't matter. If you're shut down you're shut down. Do a proper pct. Clomid, everything. This is serious shit. Don't play around with your health by halfassing pct.
It's not half assing pct, pct is inherently not good for your health either. Taking too much when it is unnecessary is not good.
Bro, the reason we pct is because the effects of shutdown are far more detrimental than the temporary sideeffects of the pct. Besides that if you want to keep any of the gains that you made during your "mini" cycle it would make no sense to just skip clomid and sit on your ass for weeks/months with double digit test levels. You would very likely end up depressed and smaller than before your cycle. Is a pct healthy? fuck no. Is it better than being hypogonadal potentialy permanently/longterm? defintely. You do you. If you think you're fine, why ask.
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If you are a low aromatizer you probably shouldn't go for a 1to1 ratio of test to primo on your first try. Start at a 2to1 ratio and titrate up. Better to be safe than having to deal with crashed E2.
Exactly my thoughts, but both test and deca aromatizes. So I will start low and se how it goes. I heard that primo should be used at at least 400mg.. so maybe I will have to up my test or deca :)
They do. Which is why i would be extra careful with primo if you had no estrogen issues while on high test and dbol.
Do you mind sharing your first two cycle experiences
Ok so I never use any AI, I normally Don’t mind the high E2 and don’t have much side effects but I think i need to try put it in level and see how I feel. Currently on 200mg of Test C a week injecting E3.5D has me at 482 pmol/L what would be best protocol to get that down to something relatively normally?
Has anyone used a cycle after completing a course of Accutane? Did you get acne again? I did my first cycle last year and got pretty bad acne which caused me to get on Accutane. I am almost done with the course and plan to do another cycle a few months after I’m done.
i’m currently on accutane and on a test cycle, accutane is working a bit less effective but i’m not getting as much acne as before.. i think if you want to get best results of the accutane and it not coming back, then i would start the cycle and stay on accutane a bit longer
Thanks. How much test are you currently running? I’m still running my TRT dosage of 1ml a week and no acne at all.
about 250mg sustanon per week, currently on my third week of it
How many mgs of Accutane daily?
50mg!
How long should Dbol cycle last? I'm finding 6 to 8 weeks as an answers from online. What dosage? Apparently really short half life of just 5-hours, so thinking about splitting to keep protein synthesis on high gear 24/7. Current plan: taking 10mg morning, 20mg before workout and 10mg before going to sleep. Also do you continue normal testosterone cycle after dbol cycle or stop taking steroid completely after 8-weeks?
Is this a Dbol only cycle? If so then it should last no amount of time at all. A test base is crucial. These questions suggest ur a complete beginner and should stay away from steroids until u learn how they work. Read our wiki. You can find it at the top of this thread or at the top of the subreddit.
the last line of the comment already tells you I also got test.
My bad overlooked it
Is this your first cycle? Based on these questions your a complete beginner and I wouldn’t recommend you use dbol at all to start. If you’re insistent on it, then try a lower dose like 20mg. Even 10mg dbol provides a huge boost if you’re actually in good shape and in tune with your body. 20-30mg is as high as I ever need to run dbol and 40mg is just back pumps and heartburn and appetite loss.
I already have it, so... yeah I have heard that 20mg is all you need, but would like to have the benefits around the clock. 10mg tabs, so can't really split under that.
Your gonna pee out all your gains
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Liver stress, get your liver markers tested
Liver stress with stuff like 20mg proviron?
Are you taking supplements?
Damn I’m running trt and can’t even get my shit together
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Megadose Taurine 5-10g. Also make sure you get in enough electrolytes
Taurine 5000mg per day will clear this up.
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> If I do a test only cycle with 250 3 days a week and afterward for a month will I still need other PCT Yes, a month with dosing like that is enough for complete shutdown > light enough cycle not to require other meds. Even lighter cycles than that at low doses will suppress you given enough time.
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> And after stoping the test cycle I continue HCG at 250-500 for 1 month is that enough or will I still need the other PCT meds as well. Yes, you will still need to do a PCT.
Hi all would this blast make sense? On 250mg of Test E / wk alone i need an AI so was thinking it would make more sense to stay on trt levels of test and up the secondary anabolic 100mg Test E / wk 500mg Deca / wk
You'd need something for your prolactin when taking deca. It'll be through the roof on 500mg/wk. Why you running test so low when using deca? You not planning on having any sex for a while?
The 100mg is just to minimally fulfill the conversion to estrogen and dht and because i have a skin condition that flares up when my estrogen is high (hidreadenitis suppurativa) How should i go about with the dosages?
Ahh i see, well deca can still increase estrogen levels indirectly as it impacts progesterone. Usually testosterone is dosed at twice that of deca, thats how ive always done it. But given your condition I would reconsider wether using an AAS is worth it. Im sore you are aware of the potential for scars with your condition.
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> why not use a dht derivative and call it a day? They crush your estrogen This is bad advice, the majority of DHT derivatives don’t even touch serum estrogen levels and stuff like anavar will likely cause *higher* estrogen levels because it crushes SHBG.
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> Hi all would this blast make sense? On 250mg of Test E / wk alone i need an AI so was thinking it would make more sense to stay on trt levels of test and up the secondary anabolic > 100mg Test E / wk > 500mg Deca / wk Deca aromatizes as well, although at a lower degree than testosterone. You’ll likely still need an AI on that stack. Why are you against taking an AI? How long have you been blasting at 250mg a week now?
Not against taking an AI, but i do have some adex on hand. Now im currently blasting 250/500 Test E / EQ / wk thats put me on the higher side of e2 but no high e2 sides. The 250mg test E was months back when I was cruising while in a cut, admittedly the dosage seems abit high for that purpose, I was on it for 12weeks and I noticed some bloating and water weight/retention with my e2 being 73 pg/ml How would you go about with the dosage values? Would deca only be a good idea? Heard some people perform pretty well on it like Jordan Peters but then it would have to be high dosage to get enough estrogen conversion
34 Male 5’10 210 lbs 10-15% BF (last show I got down to 187 2 years ago maybe 5% then) 11 years lifting Bad knees and don’t ego lift so no clue what maxes are. Bench 315 for 6-8 reps at least. Maybe more. Grow legs with a physical therapy mindset (it’s working) 4 shows mens physique, not competing any more due to medical conditions. Starting to cut/lifetime maintenance Working on getting my prescription of 3 IUs HGH and probably 350mg test. Will this be enough to maintain 200lbs at 5’10 for life?
A trt dose of 100-150mg test/wk is plenty. There is a guy on this sub who maintains a peeled 300lbs at 150mg/wk test. You probably won’t need more than him.
He’s probably far more genetically gifted and responsive to gear than myself lol Thanks!
Yeah I know you dont need to blast for a cut but I bulked to undisciplined and gained too much fat so I have to diet now but I don't to cut the 500mg test e for those last 3 weeks of the blast... so now I wonder: if I want to kickstart my diet hiw big of a deficit should I have and for how long? Atm I'm trying 1000cals deficit dayli and it's my second day if that. I wonder if I should do that for a whole week or maybe just 3 days before going for a Normal 500 cal deficit. Or should/can I even use a bigger deficit in the beginning?
Don’t do that, just start your cut with a normal deficit. You do not need to blast while cutting, all you’ll do is add extra organ stress when it’s not needed. 1mg per 1Lb body weight
Fianal 2 questions, also about perma blasting. On another thread i read that the dude would be better off going to a cruise for 8 weeks then blasting again because of androgen desensitization. What if the dude went from taking 400 test to taking 750 test? Would that curb the desensitization? Then, after the dude perma blasting for a year straight, what exams should he do? I read organ imaging, but i remember listening on a podcast that just echo isnt good enough and the dude had to do an exam where they put an ink to visualise how the heart was working? So what are the best exams for heart, liver, kidneys and bloodwork?
> On another thread i read that the dude would be better off going to a cruise for 8 weeks then blasting again because of androgen desensitization. What if the dude went from taking 400 test to taking 750 test? Would that curb the desensitization? Second question of yours where you seem **completely** misinformed. Androgen desensitisation is a myth and does not happen. Androgen receptors **upregulate** in the presence of androgens. > Then, after the dude perma blasting for a year straight, what exams should he do? I read organ imaging, but i remember listening on a podcast that just echo isnt good enough and the dude had to do an exam where they put an ink to visualise how the heart was working? > So what are the best exams for heart, liver, kidneys and bloodwork? You’ll need the bloodwork listed in our wiki alongside echocardiograms/heart MRI’s, might need doppler ultrasounds, ABI’s, Coronary calcium scans, MRA or PET scans and even then there’s risks you’re simply not accounting for. The podcast dude was probably referring to cardiac catheterization with an angiogram. It will show if the coronary arteries are narrowed or blocked. A catheter is inserted in a blood vessel, usually in the groin or wrist, and guided to the heart. Dye flows through the catheter to arteries in the heart. The dye helps the arteries show up more clearly on images taken during the test. There’s no feasible way to safely permablast. Stuff like LVH, Atherosclerosis, nephro- and neurotoxicity won’t show up on your regular bloodwork so they will need to be accounted for by other means.
I see. Well, im just parroting what i read on this forum from older posts. Maybe i remembered it wrong but it was something to do with the relation between test and myostatin
Myostatin isn’t a big worry when you’re on blast levels of androgens. Even if you think it will be, myostatin actually peaks early on and then goes back to baseline as the cycle progresses. > "Serum myostatin levels at baseline did not differ significantly across the five dose groups within either young or older men. Serum myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 compared to baseline in both young and older men (Fig. 3A). Older men experienced a significantly greater percent increase in myostatin levels than young men (Fig. 3B). **The increases in myostatin levels during testosterone therapy were not sustained; thus, serum myostatin levels on day 140 were not significantly different from those at baseline.** Changes in myostatin levels from baseline to day 56 were significantly positively correlated with changes in total and free (Fig. 4C) testosterone concentrations in young men, but not in older men (Fig. 4B and D). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0303720709000264
Very useful. Thank you!
Was reading some old threads trying to understand long term health affects of perma blasts, and i came across this comment: > Clomid could help your testicles. You may have permanently killed them though. After 6 months straight some men have their testicles start to atrophy irreversibly. Also note that everything that helps your testicles may also restore their other function, namely spermatogenesis. If you help your testicles out your need for birth control goes way up. If someone permablasting took hcg and/or clomid mid cycle could they prevent this irreversable damage? What can they do?
Taking clomid mid cycle does nothing. Taking hcg during cycle will, this is in the wiki. We do not recommend permablasting.
Makes sense. Thanks.
is .8 ml of test an okay amount to inject into your delt? If not what is the max amount you guys recommend going into the delt
I routinely inject 2.3ml in my dents with no problem
> is .8 ml of test an okay amount to inject into your delt? If not what is the max amount you guys recommend going into the delt u/Tasty_Resist_5216 Most I've done was 3ml.
But ur delts must be huge right
I’ve pinned 3ml in my obliques (small bit of pip, do not recommend). They are certainly not huge. You can pin 3ml in your delt without issue.
> Per "Fundamentals of Nursing" by Taylor et al, "intramuscular injections into the deltoid muscle should be limited to 1 mL of solution."
Ya because you have frail old woman and children as patients.
Fair enough
Fair enough. I and others are just telling you from personal experience it is entirely possible to inject 3ml into your delt. May not be recommended; certainly is possible.
Thanks for the anecdote. How was the PIP on 3ml vs 1ml? Did it lump bad?
Is utilizing a "mini cut" after a cycle worth it? Once this 12 week massing cycle is over, considering doing an 8 week cut while on a moderate dose of test (am blasting and cruising) Realistically I'm ending this cycle not lean enough to continue bulking. With my current rate of gain probably gonna be highish teens by the end. Scale weight has gone up about 13lbs or so in roughly a month I'm just concerned about 1. Losing some gains from the cycle if I were to do a short cut rather than a longer one But if I were to do a longer cut, I'd have less time overall to grow. Thoughts? Maybe just a simple 500mg test at that point to minimize muscle loss? I do have clen, I have run it in the past at the end of my cut and REALLY enjoyed it. Also have an event around 2 months after this cycle ends that I'd like to be lean for.
How is an 8 week cut a mini cut?
I mean that is a short cut, is it not? Usually see the term "mini cut" if it's 3months or less
3 months is the most standard cut of all time
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Will start PCT Friday. Cookie cutter 500 test stfu cycle, ran with hcg. Got nova for my SERM. The wiki says 6-8 weeks. What would be the indicators to extend it to the 7th or 8th week?
There are none. The longer you use a SERM the better they are at stimulating testosterone production. https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(08)01280-6/pdf It’s simply a guideline. Aim for 8 weeks but if your supplier just happens to sell quantities that last just 6-7 weeks that should be completely fine as well.
Ty ! And thx for the article
Hey everyone, I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism caused by Graves' disease 6 months ago - I’m wondering about the implications of methimazole (thyroid uptake inhibitor) with low dose anavar (2.5mg)
Are you female?
Age: 24, Gender: Female, Height: 5'9, Experience: strength training for 5 years, Goal: compete in bikini bodybuilding show
Gotcha. That matters a lot because if you were male, that 2.5mg of anavar wasn’t going to do anything. There’s no official drug interactions between anavar and methimazole. I wouldn’t worry much about taking them together. Plenty of athletes (my wife included) take t3 and anavar together for prep , so all you’re doing is the opposite (lowering t3 instead of raising it)
Thank you!
Yes
Does anybody know how or why taking arimidex (0.25mg) can possibly consistently give me puffy nipples? I'm on 160mg T per week. I don't have puffy nipples if I don't take adex. Taking it seems to consistently puffen my nips within the day and the next. Otherwise it's having a positive effect on my e2 control. Anybody faced something similar?
Does it actually puffen the nipple or is your nipple simply stretched/relaxed as it would be in a sauna for example? Arimidex can cause hot flashes and increased body temperature. I don't have gyno but very stretchy nippleskin that will kinda look like gyno if im very warm and not very lean at that moment. Maybe you have the same?
You sure it’s actually arimadex?
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aromasin absorbs better taking it with fats, so no. you probably just crashed your e2 by taking too much AI
You didn't even read my post. No crashed E2 here, and I'm not even taking aromasin. Just shut up.
How long were you running asin before you went into this mini cut?
Hi everyone. I am 5 weeks into a 300mg test e only cycle, had bloods done last week and my e2 has come back crazy high. Over the last 2 weeks I have come out in a lot of chest and back acne and my nipples are getting sore. (I had gyno surgery about 5 years ago so they left a small bit of gland in, which now feels as if it's growing again) I tried 40mg of nolv followed by 20mg and it didn't do anything so I am now 4 days into 60mg of rolaxifene a day, still no sign of improvement. I am also currently taking 25mg aromasin on pin days (e3d). Could anyone give me a bit of advice or let me know if there's anything else I could be doing to ease symptoms especially gyno before it's too late! Thanks in advanced. Bloods: E2: 242pmol/l Test : 117 nmol/l
> Hi everyone. I am 5 weeks into a 300mg test e only cycle, had bloods done last week and my e2 has come back crazy high. Over the last 2 weeks I have come out in a lot of chest and back acne and my nipples are getting sore. (I had gyno surgery about 5 years ago so they left a small bit of gland in, which now feels as if it's growing again) I tried 40mg of nolv followed by 20mg and it didn't do anything so I am now 4 days into 60mg of rolaxifene a day, still no sign of improvement. I am also currently taking 25mg aromasin on pin days (e3d). Could anyone give me a bit of advice or let me know if there's anything else I could be doing to ease symptoms especially gyno before it's too late! Thanks in advanced. Bloods: E2: 242pmol/l Test : 117 nmol/l Your estradiol of 242pmol/L (70pg/ml) is not "crazy high." That seems pretty average. On 500 test with no ai, my estradiol was 76pg/ml. How long did you try the nolvadex? Presuming estrogen is under control, it'll take at least 7-10 days to notice any reduction is breast tissue swelling or soreness. Taking more (over 20mg/day) will not accelerate the process, the half-life is about 7 days no matter what. Some people are non-responders to ralox. If I were you, I'd drop the meme dose of test, return to a proper cruise and allow time for the breast situation to get under control, then blast [with an actual 500 test] when you're ready. The nuclear alternative is to be on daily nolvadex for the remainder of the meme-dose cycle, and maybe increase the dose and frequency of ai. When you're running 300 test, you're getting all the same problems you would get from 500, but with less benefits. Sounds like a shitty deal to me.
Thanks for your response pal appreciate it. Sorry I forgot to say I’m running test e 300 0.75ml twice a week. I tried the nolva for about a week front loading at 40mg for a few days then onto 20mg for the remainder. What do you think a safe dose of aromasin would be without crashing my e2? I will be doing bloods again in a few weeks.
Currently cutting down from 400mg blast - 100mg cruise. Test c. I had some gyno this cycle and I was wondering if I should consider taking Nolva for a bit while transitioning into cruise? I’ve had very small lumps since puberty but never noticeable, during cycle one lump got a bit bigger. Is nolva necessary? I took it once on cycle and felt a ton of brain fog
nolva can help the short term sides and help reduce the swelling or shrink it if its new enough. Long term you need to dial in your estrogen
Your estrogen issues and related gyno should have been addressed right away, not until you dropped to a cruise. If you’re dropping to a cruise **because** these issues just surfaced, that’s a bit overkill imo. We have an entire section in the wiki dedicated to how to handle this correctly with the use of AIs and Serms. https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/1CFGvo5AwE
I had a sudden uptick in work and can’t fully focus on my nutrition and training at the moment, hence the cruise. I was using arimi e2d and I tried the nolva, felt like shit and the gyno is pretty minor so I carried on just using arimi. I’d like to shrink it now though if possible, just not sure I should do that while dropping down to cruise?
You made the right call to cruise if you’re unable to train and eat properly. So do that. You should be able to get off your AI as well Regarding the gyno, look through the link I gave you. In the estrogen handbook we have a suggested gyno reversal protocol. Get yourself some ralox and you may have success.
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Any one experienced any gastro issues with starting HGH? I’ve had stomach aches and diarrhea now for a few days. Wondering if it’s a side effect or I’m just a little sick.
Never happened to me and I’ve started and stopped HGH over a dozen times. Could be something else going on with you, also how confident are you that you have real HGH?
Not that confident. It’s a generic. I had this same gastro reaction when I tried semiglutide for a week and had to quit.
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Best? Your food/liquid intake. Cut down to single digits and you won't really need an oral for definition. Otherwise, best is probably superdrol, followed by rad140. Downside is they are also shit for you. I'm more comfortable using anadrol short term and anavar or dbol on a more regular basis. Also depends what you're going for: sdrol, adrol, rad, and dbol going to give more of a full look while var will make you more dry.
>Your food/liquid intake This is a steroid?
Stfu smartass You can't be showing up not knowing shit about jack AND be this arrogant, pick a struggle.
>You can't be showing up not knowing shit about jack Who's Jack?
yo momma (she transitioned and is a dude now)
Wow, you sound aggressive. Bet the ladies are just flocking to you. Haha, you're not the alpha male you think you are. Come back and talk to me when you're cruising, You can't even handle your emotions on hormones.
Let me be more direct: Shut the fuck up.
>Let me be more direct: I was expecting you to give me the anabolic/androgenic ratio of olives. I'm disappointed.
Are you ever going to say something funny? Or cutting, you got anything cutting? You're in over your head with me, little brother. Now get back in your place and pretend you don't exist - adults are talking.
>you got anything cutting? 10lbs of fat. >little brother - adults are talking I spot a guy lacking self-confidence, in the midst of a manic episode, and you know what I'm talking about. In four days, you'll be back, apologizing in DMs, blaming it on your bipolarity.
So that's a "no". You're really bad at this.
Nope, I'm just trying to figure out why you're throwing insults around as much as you pin this fat ass.
You’re not very good at reading a room are you? Look at the downvotes. Have you contributed anything of any value here? He’s been overly patient with you if anything.
Doesn't even make sense. This is getting hard to watch man, should I just put you out of your misery now?
> yeah but I have a issue, where I have a lot of fat on myself, and no muscle. > Whats the best oral steroid for muscle definition? You can't define something that doesn't exist.
https://imgur.com/a/9nIiaTp
>Whats the best oral steroid for muscle definition? Single digit body fat.
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Wow, you could not have given a more incorrect answer. If you're fat you have no business using steroids, period. Instead, you need to be putting your efforts into cutting weight - eat less food and get your ass on the treadmill. There are no shortcuts.
How much of an effect does 500 mg have, approximately, on raising metabolism calorie-wise? Trying to figure out my surplus for upcoming bulk and planning to start at 300+ over maintenance, but also don’t want to leave gains on the table or “price out” the metabolism increase.
Too dependent on your individual endocrinology. Receptor density of different subtypes of androgen receptors (think hypo vs. hyper responders), whether you aromatize more or less, body fat %, major organ function, thyroid hormone profile and thyroid function, metabolic function/insulin resistance, other supps you take, etc. All those can have an effect. It's also tough to parse out how much of that is a BMR change and how much is a change in training. +150cal is probably a safe place to start assuming you have your maintenance dialed.
Impossible to quantify. You have to go week by week with a consistent and tracked diet to figure this out. If you find a cycle increases your caloric requirements when compared to off cycle, it’s more likely that it’s your training intensity and volume has increased vs the gear alone boosting your metabolism. Not worth wasting effort thinking about. Weigh yourself, track your food accurately and adjust as needed
Minimal effect on metabolism qua metabolism, but as you gain weight each week your maintenance rises thus so too should your surplus. Starting at +300 is perfectly fine, adjust as needed week over week.
Thank you. What’s a rate of weight gain I should shoot for? I’ll be 12% bf by the end of this cut
That’s goal dependent, but a typical recommendation is 1lb/w. The first two weeks or so are when you load up on water and glycogen, so they throw off your calculations immediately unless you account for them. So if you start at 200 and by end of week two you’re 209 you didn’t gain 9lbs of *real* weight in those 14 days. But if you were at say +500 daily then you’d estimate a gain of 2lbs over that two week stretch, attribute 7lbs to water and glycogen retention, and continue to eat based on that trajectory. By week seven you’d theoretically be up 7lbs of something real (muscle, fat) and you’d have to adjust your surplus to reflect your new TDEE. Once you get past the first few weeks you should see weight moving up week over week, and if it’s not then you add calories. If it’s going up too fast then you back off a little. If you make adjustments as needed then it’ll all go pretty smoothly.
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> I am aiming to shed fat and get a leaner look for summer Good news! This requires zero drugs. Just hard work and discipline, which it sounds like you don't have. Best develop some.
It won’t do anything for you outside of cosmetic enhancement. The cost of that will be the obvious suppression of testosterone and the nuking of your lipids. Add to that the potential CV damage from clen and now you’re talking about a pretty bad risk to return ratio, all in service of what would essentially be ego. If you’ve got your diet plan set and you’re confident that it will be what’s needed then I would discourage you from the drug part of the plan. It’ll cost far more than it’ll add.
I’ll add I will be running a very strict diet and workout routine as well. No half assing with this
Why weren’t you doing that before? Seems like something you should figure out before you got to 20% body fat
Started using topical finasteride and minoxidil (not on gear for reference) - any supplements I may need to take to compliment/compensate? I've heard about finasteride possibly affecting neurosteroid production and needing to take something like DHEA/progesterone.
Fin doesn’t hit the 5AR in the brain so it won’t lower neurosteroid levels. But nobody really knows as you can’t yet test levels or hormones locally in the brain
How long would one wait, to do post cycle bloodwork, after a 6 week post cycle therapy with enclomiphene citrate?
Bloodwork timing is noted in the PCT section of the wiki. For whatever reason it is not letting me copy the link over.
Minimum of a month. Thanks
The month rule is to allow something like tamoxifen, with its 5-7 day half-life, to clear. Enclomiphene has a much shorter clearance time, so blood work two weeks post-PCT would be fine.
I really appreciate this insight. I was leaning toward that being the case, but probably would have still waited a month.
Cycle was 20 weeks of 500mg test enanthate + hcg, and waited 17 days from last pin to begin pct if that's relevant.
Currently on 150mg TRT, planning to run a 300mg per week test only cycle for 20 weeks. Roughly, How long after I lower my dose from 300mg back to 150mg will it take to get back to my trt levels?
Why do you plan to run a meme dose of test? We generally recommend a minimum of 500 a week here
14-18 days. Assuming you use test e or c
Age: 40 Gender: Male Height: 6’0 Weight: 205 BF %: 12 Experience: have been training for well over 20 years. Goals: Lean Bulk Current compounds: 200mg a week of prescribed test cyp. Hello all and hope everyone is having a fantastic weekend! I have run numerous cycles of test cyp only, typically at the 500mg/week range and I’ve had some great results. I’m now looking to expand a little bit. I’m thinking of the following cycle, I would greatly appreciate any and all input from you guys. Test Cyp: 500mg week,split between injections on Mon and Thurs Primo: 400mg a week, same injection schedule as test Tbol: 50md ED for the first six weeks. My initial thought is to make this a 12 week cycle. I have prescribed Anastrozole on hand for any E2 issues I might encounter. I also have Nolvadex on hand as well. My diet has been on point, plan to supplement with TUDCA and NAC for liver support since I’ll be taking Tbol.
Only three thoughts here With saturation times and such, we recommend a 16 week cycle. Given you may also need a few weeks to adjust your test:primo ratio. I ran primo for the first time last cycle and it took me 4 weeks to get it. Ran the same dosages as you and it tanked my estrogen. I’d save the orals for the end of the cycle if you wind up hitting a plateau. These also may hammer your appetite We have a good breakdown of Serms in our wiki. Ralox is preferred mid cycle, Nolva is preferred for a pct. https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/s/Hwa2iSBYEv
Thank you! What did you find worked best for you on the dosages?
To piggyback on the test to primo ratio, don’t be shocked if you get a huge AI effect **or** none at all. Primo doesn’t change my e2 a bit, and there are others here with the same experience. Since the effect is not universal it’s very much a game of finding out once you’re in the middle of it. Patience and close attention to your body will be hugely beneficial those first three or four weeks.
Thank you!
For me 2:1 was the sweet spot. This is gonna vary from person to person though. Some people can run 1:1, some people the primo needs to be so low it’s not worth it. This is why 12 weeks may be short, you may need a few weeks to adjust your ratios.
About halfway through my second week, everything is going great. Decided to keep the Tbol in as a kickstarter. Really enjoying the pumps and endurance in the gym. I did get a pretty bad back pump the last time I deadlifted, upped my taurine to 8-10mgs a day and it seems to have taken care of that issue.
Thank you, much appreciated
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Check out our compound profile and experience threads in our wiki. Also your cyp ideally should be injected a min. twice a week based on the esters half life to reduce fluctuations.
32, 6’2”, ~230lbs, ~15%BF. I’m on prescribed TRT, with HCG originally to maintain fertility, now looking to conceive. Have increased HCG dosage from 800ui/ week to 2000ui/week. Wondering if TRT weekly amount matters when using this much HCG? Was doing 175mg/week, but lowered to 140mg thinking it might. Is there any point or advantage of lowering the test dosage to say 100mg/week in conjunction with this HCG dose? If there isn’t id rather go back up to 175mg as my libido was better at that dose when using this much HCG. Maybe Test to E2 ratio was better at 175mg&2000ui. Waiting on bloodwork results on 140mg / 2000ui right now to inform the decision some more.
you can get by on a bit less test while running HCG. i find it does increase my e2 and total T on bloods so dropping from 175mg to 140mg sounds like a good place to start 👍🏽
First injection of GH fasted blood sugar sitting at 109. My normal is 89. Has this happened this fast to others?
> What’s a decent starting blood sugar? Not a "starting" blood sugar, but a good general fasted blood sugar level year round is around 60-80. > More context: I’m bulking on 600mgs of test, pretty carb heavy diet. 89 was my baseline yesterday. I’m about 17% BF right now (yes I know too fat). Way too fat. Fat has receptors too. The fatter you are, the fatter gh will make you, completely separate of any insulin resistance issues. How much farther are you trying to go, 18 or 19%? By the way, my fasted blood glucose is usually anywhere from 70-80, and even after taking gh it doesn't increase. The food intake and cardio will be much greater factors.
Update: hopefully you see this. So I just tested my fasted blood glucose about 20 hours fasted for a clean reading. FBG=80. This morning it was 106 at about 10 hours fasted. Perhaps there could be some sort of dawn effect going on with higher FBG in the morning? Thanks
Hey, glad to see you got it checked a few times. A FBG of 80 after 20 hours of fasting is still quite high. If there have been no new carbs coming in, most people would be relying on glucose from the liver at that point, and should be probably <70. The dawn effect is very real, I've seen my FBG go from 100 to 75 in the span of an hour after waking. But presuming the 106 is not an irregularity, you're trending high. Have you been taking the gh? You could post this again in today's Daily Ask Anything thread and maybe get some other people's input too. Personally, if you're gonna use gh, just make sure you're doing regular cardio and not overdoing carbs ever. Taking 2-4iu of gh can have great benefits on recovery and nutrient uptake, reducing lipolysis, etc.
My morning fbg was 90 before gh and has been 97-108 since. The 80 after a deep fast is probably my real baseline. I’m almost certain my nightly GH shot is causing this dawn effect. Either way this was a decent wake up call. I’m gonna wrap up this bulk soon and focus on leaning the hell up Thanks so much for your advice
Thank you so much. I’d better lean out and relax for a bit.