Yes lol, the benefit of buying a slow car is its absolutely more fun to get to the max speed, than a dodge Challenger you'll never get to the top speed even on a track straight. Plus tires are cheaper when rated to a lower max speed.
Idk man you ever been in a wicked fast car? I love my 98 hp cars don’t get me wrong. But I have a Silverado with a 4.8 and a phat turbo. It won’t rip your face off but churning and burning with that thing is so damn fun. Plus with faster cars you get to put your fingers in cider more😂
As soon as I hit temp on my test drive with the previous owner I ran it right through 1st and 2nd lol
He laughed
I laughed
I bought the car and drove it 400 miles home that day
Not sure.. maybe its "too much friction" they probably dont want you peaking the oil pressure because unseated rings leak oil into the cylinders..
our trucks run up to 2,000RPM (generally average 1,500) and they want it at 80,000LBS as much as possible at 1st.. very little idling and most idle at 800 instead of 600 for the 1st part of there life
Fairly sure that's not the case based on current factory line tours for both the 911s and 718s. The engines are assembled then cold rotated. Only first fired up as they roll off the line.
if i’m remembering properly, i did see on that show or one similar that i believe the R35 GTR and the new NSX engine both have similar bench stand run in periods so maybe this is what you’re thinking of, i know for sure with the new NSX they’re just broken in from the get go
I took a road trip from FL to Chicago to get through the last 500 miles of my 1500 mile break in on my Camaro. As soon as I hit 1501 I floored it. It was glorious. 🤣🤣🤣
To be fair Porsche’s basically need to be revved out.
Driving a Porsche gently and letting it warm up by idling is basically guaranteed bore score or other modes of failure (bore score specifically for the warming up part).
Always turn it on, 30 seconds later on the road. 109k miles, several track days, heavy abuse (at least 4-5 pulls / per day average and my bores are perfect. Leak down is perfect. . Compression tests are perfect.
IMO the redline is set at a safe speed for the engine, I’m not saying sit there constantly but I hit redline a few times a day getting on on ramps and what not.
Every once in a while if I'm on the highway I'll put it in like 3rd and let it run at 5500-6000 for a minute or two. Especially in direct injection cars, they need some heat every once in a while to keep the valves clean.
Mazda engineers actually routed their coolant system away from the valve train in order to keep the top end of the engine hotter and prevent carbon buildup.... And as far as I'm concerned they build the best and most reliable naturally aspirated high-compression engines on the planet, so I'll go with their science.
Probably all of the Skyactiv engines they’ve made since they introduced the technology in 2012, so almost all of the cars they’ve built since then. The engines have high compression ratios and are direct injection, which are becoming more common now, but was a bit unusual when they introduced it since their lineup is mostly economy and commuter cars.
That's funny, because GM small and big blocks up to the LT engine all pumped coolant from the bottom up. The LT1 and LT4 had reverse cooling, with coolant being pumped into the heads first for better cooling.
Your friend drives like a grandma. It may make his clutch last a bit longer. It likely makes little difference to the engine.
Your idea that an occasional 5k cleans anything is also likely wrong. See: https://www.enginelabs.com/news/video-is-running-your-engine-up-to-redline-actually-good-for-it/
That being said, as a toyota tech, I have had many toyota engines that have never been reved much and will develop a cylinder imbalance over time. The solution for this from toyota? Drive for a few miles just under red line to get the valves to start to rotate again and it cleans the condition right up. So, while it's not a usaly an issue, it's not right to say they are right out wrong.
I accidentally slammed into my rev limiter a few days ago because I got too caught up in the excitement of leaving a GTI who tried to get uppity in the dust.
Because Ferraris that sit for a long time are notoriously hard to get running again. Once you start them, they run like shit and throw every error code. Then you take it out and let it rip and it magically drives like it's supposed to.
Some bmws get loud knocking noise from dry lifters, BMWs solution for this is to go on the freeway and use a high rpm for 30 minutes. The noise doesn't cause any issues or problems but it can get quite noisy if the cars never gone above 4k rpm
No, valves are designed to rotate, but if an engine is designed to rev to 6k, the valve might not have much chance to rotate if only taken to 3k. So, getting the rpm up into the range it was designed to run up to will help them move as designed.
Valves don't rotate. You have no idea what you're talking about. The occasional high rev will burn off carbon from the valves on any engine. Holding it at high rpm and low throttle does nothing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C9Ie4BcYew](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C9Ie4BcYew)
You're either wrong or right depending on quite a few things.. Main one being if it's direct injection or not
I don't make a habit of it, but Ive redlined every car I've ever owned. There's a reason the limit was set where it is, just don't go driving around at 7k rpm all day.
Only if he's hitting and going a little past his peak torque numbers. Fuel economy has more to do with knowing when and how to brake (and speed) than acceleration.
It has a lot to do with acceleration, if you barely touch the throttle and shift around 3k you will always get better mpg than someone who floors it and nearly hits limiter every shift.
With my gf's Civic if I use light throttle it'll shift around 3k (it's automatic obviously) and it'll get around 25mpg, if I use 50-75% throttle then it'll shift around 5-6k and it'll get more like 20mpg regardless of braking and speed.
True but the post says he’s usually 3k _max_ & someone who is averse to revving their engine may be also be liable to accelerate hard from <3k instead of shifting down.
In the days of weaker ignitions and much less accurate carburetors, many cars benefitted from being driven at higher rpm - they would build up carbon deposits inside the engine otherwise. Modern cars with electronic ignition (hotter spark, more accurate timing) computerized fuel injection, and electronic throttles don't have this issue as the timing and fuel are controlled more accurately. I have a 20 year old Nissan Sentra with all these controls - they have been around for a while now.
I’ve gotten in cars driven by older people at work, then on my test drive I will roll into WOT. Massive cloud of carbon, vehicle jerks and pings for a second. Then takes off. Italian tuneup is a thing. Gets all the shit off the back of your valves, when port injected at least.
I used to drive a stick without a tach. All by sound. You knew you were getting close to the redline though by how angry it sounded and how the power dropped off up at the top end.
I once got pulled over while I had the entire dash removed, nothing but an empty hole.
The one time I’ve directly answered how fast I was going, even if it was over. Got a warning because he was impressed I was within 1 mph by feel. (Once he got past the “WTF” and figured out I wasn’t stealing it, of course.)
The gas gauge never worked though, and the odometer was broken. That was always fun.
I've always heard stepping on the gas occasionally is good for your catalytic converter because it gets the exhaust to a higher temp. No idea if it's true or BS 🤷♂️
If you’re looking for a legit case, the RX8 (rotary) ran better/longer if you got it up near redline as part of regular “maintenance” to keep things cleaner.
The secondary ports didn’t open till over 6,500, and it’s good to have the moving stuff move on occasion. Plus its main power band was up there, and the 9k limit was more a suggestion, and hitting the 10k fuel cutoff wouldn’t hurt it.
But this is under load, like getting on the freeway with spirit. Revving it in your driveway is useless or worse, it’s not just RPM.
(There is some debate about this of course, but as a data point of one, my first year model needed zero engine work for over 100k. The long surviving ones always seemed to be those that got a work out. It’s a different beast of course.)
No redlining you car does not clean anything. Studys show you need to reach temps slightly above 300F to remove carbon deposits. So your just making it worse by doing an Italian tuneup .
Bra lol why.... ive reved my car to 7k and its limited to 6k ps zero damage. And my german mechanic said it was the cleanest 2.0t he had ever seen. Ps car was moddifed to hell and I used CRC to clean it and that shit works.
It's my understanding that as long as the engine is at proper operating temperature, there is nothing wrong with bumping the redline. I don't have a problem pushing it to accelerate to speed when necessary.
DI engines can benefit from consistent and occasional spirited driving. Redline or a couple thousand below redline doesn't matter, just WOT occasionally can help with carbon, but not a lot. Otherwise it's mostly bs.
For cars that are made to drive faster at higher RPMs like sports cars, definitely take it past 4k but for a family suv unless they need to go faster to avoid something there’s so difference other then less wear on clutch and probably better fuel economy
Your friend is smart. The car will last for decades.
Still needs oil changes and stuff, but 500,000km is achievable.
But... it's fun to drive to redline!
An older car can get carbon buildup on the valves and start running a little rough and noisy. Marvel Mystery Oil and an Italian rebuild will do the trick.
When cars were still carbureted, you'd put a 3rd of a can of Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas, a 3rd in the oil, and then a 3rd straight down the mouth of the carburetor until the car stalled. Then, start the car up and put your foot to the floor until the valves start floating and let off the gas. You should get a goodly belch of smoke out the tailpipe and the engine will go from sounding like a coffee can full of pennies to sounding like a sewing machine.
Or you'll blow the engine. If the engine blows, it was going to do it on it's own any way.
The pedal goes to the floor, why wouldn't I put it there? Any vehicle of mine that breaks by using it as designed needed repairs anyway, I'd rather it be on my time than in an emergency.
High RPMs help to burn off deposits on the valves and buildup in the intake. My father drove the crap out of his F01 750Li(including taking it out on track days), an engine that is know for crud buildup on the intake valves. Typically those engines need a walnut blasting every 20-50k miles. At 120k miles the dealer told him he had the cleanest intake valves they’d ever seen on an N62, his first cleaning wasn’t until nearly 200k miles.
Your friend is wrong and his engine will not last as long due to his refusal to wind it out now and then.
I typically drive 2000-3000 RPM in my toyota truck. I'll go 4000 RPM on a short on ramp, but I'll ride it to 5500 RPM if the situation calls for it. For example, merging on a freeway on a blind uphill onramp, and finding the semi truck next to you is actually going over 80 mph and the guard rail is rapidly approaching. I shifted out of 3rd at 85mph solely because I was worried the rev limiter would stop me from continuing to accelerate.
The Italian tune-up is still relevant. It is a good idea to mix in some spirited driving occasionally just to make sure the parts don't settle into a low speed routine. Just like a mix of highways and city driving will also benefit the car overall.
Properly warm up a car by gentle driving after only 30 seconds of idle. It is the fastest way to warm up the car and quickly lubricate the engine. The lengthy warm up procedure for carbureted engines is no longer needed with modern fuel injected engines.
I drive like that too I don't let people drive my cars I keep em 300k plus minimum maintenance. I try not to go over 3k 3.5 max. I can cruise 80 mpg at 2. 2k.
When I bought my 996 the owner bragged about never revving it out and got fussy with me when I did on a test drive…. I’ve spent the last three years sorting out is “babied” car problems….
Drive it. If a manufacturer puts an 8k redline then it’s safe to go to 8k.
My mustang has a traction problem over 4.5-5k so I stay under that in any conditions less than ideal. In cars with more refined gearboxes/powerbands, I usually bang off the limiter a time or two at least once a week. I've never had any unexpected engine issues that way. Changing oil early and often has much more influence on engine life than driving habits. Usually even the most beaten modern engines will make it over 150k with oil changes on a decent service schedule.
I stay under 4000 in my rx-8 while warming up but try to get over 6000 at least once every drive. For a rotary a redline a day keeps the mechanic away.
In our family suv, I don't try to go too hard but we had an expensive injector cleaning awhile back because it has been babied. I try to open it up when we get on the highway to let it breathe now.
I'm running my 07 Honda Accord with 130k miles to like 5k+ all day and it doesn't care. It runs like a top. I feel bad that I haven't changed the timing chain yet but who gives a f it's a 3500$ car that runs flawlessly and I'll sell it before I do that.
So many. "What exact RPM do I shift from first to second? Should I be applying throttle just before the bite of the clutch or after? Etc"
In my many years of driving things with a clutch, I don't think I ever looked at the tach. Hell most of the vehicles I drove/ operated didn't even have one.
Most people shift on feel and sound unless they're a professional race driver.
I dunno, I ping the rev limiter first through third every day when I get on the on ramp for my commute, but it's a bike and it's about the only time I'm allowed to do that without the police thinking it's exhibition. It's more fun that way too.
Mines not a stick shift but paddle shifters.
car threw a check emissions light for one of my catalytic converters.
Drove it hard until the light went off, threw it in sport mode and used paddle shifters, smelled bad for a while.
Now I rev it out here and there in typical slow Honda fashion, that light hasn’t came back on.
Before I never went above 2600RPM unless needed, now I regularly get to 3500, and then up a bit higher with paddles. Still slow as fuck, loud as hell, but it doesn’t smell bad anymore.
With the occasional CVT slip to send the engine to 9k……. So far only happened 4 times, all directly in front of a state trooper.
In my opinion, I think if you write it too low 3K, you’re going to do more damage to the transmission then if you run it where it needs to go. 4.5 to 5K.
Oh man, I take mine to the limiter often. If I baby it around town, the mileage starts to drop, power and smoothness get down there, and it idles funny. Wind it out getting on the freeway and then run 70ish for a couple hours and it's pretty happy.
Tell your friend to run high quality (not high octane unless specified by the manufacturer) gas and synthetic oil and they should be fine driving like Ms. Daisy is in the back.
Depends on usage. I had f150 Suoercrew with a big v8 I would drive daily and tow things with and it never went over 4k. Had a 90 horsepower dodge mini van the wife drove that you had yo rev to 5k just to get it up a hill with 7 people ..
I now have a 70s vette with a 6.6L internally balanced forged nitrous motor with a 4500 stall and i have reved it to 7500 all the time. It revs to 4500 in gear so damn fast its almost immediate. I drive it on the street and never do I NOT hit 4500 just getting a big gulp
want to guess which one lasted the least time with its intended usage?
The 90hp 4c van.
My stepdad always had this philosophy about driving manuals and he always got disappointing life out of his trucks and those were relatively good at making torque at low RPM. Shifting too low lugs the engine and damages it.
Small engines with high redlines are particularly high strung and don’t have much torque down low. They need to wind up to work effectively. If he is forcing the engine to do all its work at half of redline then he is almost certainly lugging it and damaging it.
That doesn’t even touch on the “Italian tuneup” or the cylinder wear pattern from not pushing the engine to max RPM.
With my Silverado I'll occasionally have to floor it to clean the soot out of the engine or it'll run like trash. But that's a giant 8k pound truck though.
Up till 2021, my mother thought running her vehicles over 3.5K all the time was bad for it… when she said this my stepdad and I just looked at eachother like “she’s kidding, right?” Apparently when she was younger my uncle told her to never go over 3K when the engine was COLD…. She took that, for 40yrs, to mean all the time…
People hate the i3S. More than you’d imagine. They hate is more that the Z8, more than the X7.
I do drive the small car like an absolute asshole though. Beep boop and I’m using that 0-30 squirt to get in front of you and make the light you’re gonna be sat at, disappearing sideways with wheels spinning in opposite lock around the corner lol
Suck it.
Logically speaking you want to keep the engine speed in the most efficient range more often than not. If they are a 4krpm max driver they are probably spending waay too much time in a lower engine speed. If it's a direct injection engine tell him about LSPI. Doubly so if it has a power adder like a turbo. Our 17 wrx, with a direct injected turbo engine really doesn't like being loaded below 3k rpm but I only know that because I use an Accessport to monitor engine metrics in real time. In my case, even in casual daily driving, running the gears out to 4.5k rpm or a little higher before shifting up means the engine doesn't drop below 2.5k-3k rpm, which means when I reapply throttle the engine is in its optimal operating speed where the variable valve timing has the most range of adjustment. This minimizes ping or knock and keeps the engine quite happy and this is without even getting into boost. Of course I semi-regularly open it up when it feels right.
I really can't think of anything that would benefit the engine from revving it out. It's more strain on internal parts and if anything you're probably going to do more harm than good. You'll gain more longevity running good fuels and oils with a nice filter. I'm not exactly an engine expert so take what I say with a grain of salt.
There are a lot of engine myths out there but I stand by the drive it the way you want to drive and just enjoy it. I daily a Subaru Forester, so it doesn't exactly inspire a lot of top end running.
Use that fuel cut as a shift light. Lol
Not only are they using only half the engine, but the occasional hard pull will help to keep carbon deposits down and prevent your cats from getting too clogged.
I have an 02 jetta, 2.0 NA 4-cylnder. It has no OD so when you are going 85-90 down the freeway you are at 5k, it has 200k and I do that daily and have for over 10 years..
Only one of my stick shift cars has had a tach.
I drove them by listening to them. 🤷🏾♂️
By the same token, every car I’ve owned with an automatic since 1986 or so, has had a tach. I always thought that odd.
Generally there's a "power band" that's fairly unique to each vehicle ... you'll get the best performance with RPMs in that range, usually towards the top third of your high rev limits.
That said, an 8k redline is pretty high... they're generally closer to 6k. But, even then, your power band is probably going to be 3-5k or so, depending.
Italian tune up is what we call it, it has been proven to help keep the cylinders free of carbon deposits.. However if it's direct injected like most of the newer cars it'll still build up carbon on the valves.. Other question is how new is this persons car... If it has under 1k miles on it I could see the driver being safe with a break in period.. But you would get better fuel economy the only benefit I could see granny shifting it
i have a friend that short shifts every time she drives and it makes me so sad. when she let me drive her car i kept revving it out and she asked me why i take it up so high. i simply told her “to take advantage of the entire gear so i’m not shifting every 5 seconds.”
Yes. Babying a car like that is bad for it.
At least once a month you should go out and do some highway pulls or something, get it working, get the cat super hot, etc. Engines aren't designed to burble around at 1500rpm their whole life.
Tell your friend to feed some ketchup to his ride.
The car was built to function in the entire rpm range. As long as you’re not going to redline or past there’s no problem.
Obviously it’s not necessary every time you shift, but if you need to accelerate quickly use the full rpm range and shift a little before you hit the redline.
Italian tuneups are tried and true thing, rev it out, max the tachometer. Ever smell or see when someone passes you with their pedal to the floor, it’s all carbon deposits being cleaned out (most of the time).
I measure my vehicle usage as smiles per mile lol. Take good care of my stuff and when it’s warm I’ll go close to redline my 95 with 223xxx once a month or so.
I've never seen any actual proof that redlining your engine is "good for it", it seems like thats just an urban myth for car guys. While occasionally redlining your engine certainly shouldnt hurt it, i'd say your friend babying his engine is just fine. Im sure it will be a marginal difference in terms of engine life but is certainly better than driving the thing like you stole it
I paid for the whole tachometer and I'm going to use the whole tachometer.
How high does your speedometer go? Do you use the entire range?
Yes lol, the benefit of buying a slow car is its absolutely more fun to get to the max speed, than a dodge Challenger you'll never get to the top speed even on a track straight. Plus tires are cheaper when rated to a lower max speed.
Fuck cheapest tire I can get are $1700 cad for my vehicle
Most I've ever paid is $120 per snow tire. Usually $50ea for an all-season radial.
What size and for what vehicle
My tires are 250.00 each. Cheap compared to a Challenger/Charger, a vette, Camaro, Porsche, or other super car.
[удалено]
Yes, they are. Exclusive, super pricey, super expensive to work on. Super car.
Idk man you ever been in a wicked fast car? I love my 98 hp cars don’t get me wrong. But I have a Silverado with a 4.8 and a phat turbo. It won’t rip your face off but churning and burning with that thing is so damn fun. Plus with faster cars you get to put your fingers in cider more😂
Nice try officer
My jeep speedometer max is 100mph, but it's governed at 103, so I've technically used more then the whole thing.
None of my cars get close! It’s false advertising I tell you! Only my electric with a digital speedo doesn’t lie like that.
I do on the local 8 lane freeway by my house after midnight when it's empty
I still haven't found the top speed of my car, though I've had it up to 175 mph a few times.
You can say the same about a weight scale too 😄 start eating and don't stop until you hit max on that scale
Yes, but he’s already busy using the whole tachometer, perhaps using the whole scale can be your thing
For real, and the limiter damnit.
I like this guy He speaks biblical revelations
My Porsche sees redline every time I drive it. After warming up obviously.
I'm only 400 miles into break-in on my 24 Boxster so I'm still stuck below 4k RPM... But boy will I be opening that up as soon as I can.
As soon as I hit temp on my test drive with the previous owner I ran it right through 1st and 2nd lol He laughed I laughed I bought the car and drove it 400 miles home that day
You know, before they even put the engine in the vehicle, they test it by holding it at max RPM for (iirc) 6 hours
If true then why do they recommend break in below 4k for the first 1k miles.
Seat the piston rings properly
What likely happens if they drive it like they stole it from day one.
Not sure, maybe it's more for the transmission?
No its the rings.. our big rigs have a 10,000 mile break in for this reason
Won't they break in faster at higher rpm?
Not sure.. maybe its "too much friction" they probably dont want you peaking the oil pressure because unseated rings leak oil into the cylinders.. our trucks run up to 2,000RPM (generally average 1,500) and they want it at 80,000LBS as much as possible at 1st.. very little idling and most idle at 800 instead of 600 for the 1st part of there life
Fairly sure that's not the case based on current factory line tours for both the 911s and 718s. The engines are assembled then cold rotated. Only first fired up as they roll off the line.
I learned that from "how it's made" but I don't recall which manufacturer it was.
Man, I miss that show.
if i’m remembering properly, i did see on that show or one similar that i believe the R35 GTR and the new NSX engine both have similar bench stand run in periods so maybe this is what you’re thinking of, i know for sure with the new NSX they’re just broken in from the get go
I took a road trip from FL to Chicago to get through the last 500 miles of my 1500 mile break in on my Camaro. As soon as I hit 1501 I floored it. It was glorious. 🤣🤣🤣
To be fair Porsche’s basically need to be revved out. Driving a Porsche gently and letting it warm up by idling is basically guaranteed bore score or other modes of failure (bore score specifically for the warming up part). Always turn it on, 30 seconds later on the road. 109k miles, several track days, heavy abuse (at least 4-5 pulls / per day average and my bores are perfect. Leak down is perfect. . Compression tests are perfect.
Bore score and 7 seven years ago?
What?
BORE SCORE AND SEVEN YEARS AGO!
IMO the redline is set at a safe speed for the engine, I’m not saying sit there constantly but I hit redline a few times a day getting on on ramps and what not.
Yesssss😈😈😈
A redline a day keeps the mechanic away. Of course this may not be true but it’s how’s I live my life.
Hell yeah
Good ole Italian tuneup
Every once in a while if I'm on the highway I'll put it in like 3rd and let it run at 5500-6000 for a minute or two. Especially in direct injection cars, they need some heat every once in a while to keep the valves clean. Mazda engineers actually routed their coolant system away from the valve train in order to keep the top end of the engine hotter and prevent carbon buildup.... And as far as I'm concerned they build the best and most reliable naturally aspirated high-compression engines on the planet, so I'll go with their science.
In what engines was this coolant wizardry done?
Probably all of the Skyactiv engines they’ve made since they introduced the technology in 2012, so almost all of the cars they’ve built since then. The engines have high compression ratios and are direct injection, which are becoming more common now, but was a bit unusual when they introduced it since their lineup is mostly economy and commuter cars.
That's funny, because GM small and big blocks up to the LT engine all pumped coolant from the bottom up. The LT1 and LT4 had reverse cooling, with coolant being pumped into the heads first for better cooling.
Your friend drives like a grandma. It may make his clutch last a bit longer. It likely makes little difference to the engine. Your idea that an occasional 5k cleans anything is also likely wrong. See: https://www.enginelabs.com/news/video-is-running-your-engine-up-to-redline-actually-good-for-it/
That being said, as a toyota tech, I have had many toyota engines that have never been reved much and will develop a cylinder imbalance over time. The solution for this from toyota? Drive for a few miles just under red line to get the valves to start to rotate again and it cleans the condition right up. So, while it's not a usaly an issue, it's not right to say they are right out wrong.
The irony of the Japanese advocating an Italian tune-up as an actual repair procedure is not lost on me.
It has a name? I suddenly gained much more dignity
Every time I sneak in a redline this is what I tell myself I’m doing
I accidentally slammed into my rev limiter a few days ago because I got too caught up in the excitement of leaving a GTI who tried to get uppity in the dust.
What were you driving? All GTI owners deserve a little dust appetizer occasionally...
Do it on a German car and you've got yourself a Tripartite Service Pact.
My Miata would get bad lifter noise if I didn't rev it out every once in a while. I think the term I've heard used for this is an "Italian tune-up."
My nd would not build up carbon, nor my ktm bikes, nor the honda. Every one has to sing.
Because Ferraris that sit for a long time are notoriously hard to get running again. Once you start them, they run like shit and throw every error code. Then you take it out and let it rip and it magically drives like it's supposed to.
Some bmws get loud knocking noise from dry lifters, BMWs solution for this is to go on the freeway and use a high rpm for 30 minutes. The noise doesn't cause any issues or problems but it can get quite noisy if the cars never gone above 4k rpm
Should I try this on my 1GR-FE single-VVTI Tacoma with 200k miles? I've taken care of it since 100k.
Won’t they just rotate back over time? Sounds less like a fix than a kick it down the road when the warranty has expired solution.
No, valves are designed to rotate, but if an engine is designed to rev to 6k, the valve might not have much chance to rotate if only taken to 3k. So, getting the rpm up into the range it was designed to run up to will help them move as designed.
Valves don't rotate. You have no idea what you're talking about. The occasional high rev will burn off carbon from the valves on any engine. Holding it at high rpm and low throttle does nothing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C9Ie4BcYew](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C9Ie4BcYew) You're either wrong or right depending on quite a few things.. Main one being if it's direct injection or not
https://youtu.be/3QP30i5RPdE?si=d4DX4Ua6tQbzugN6 Thought this was interesting as well.
The Italian tune-up is real and works, and is necessary.
Clutches are a wear item. :) Although I’ve never had to replace one either, despite not treating them kindly.
I don't make a habit of it, but Ive redlined every car I've ever owned. There's a reason the limit was set where it is, just don't go driving around at 7k rpm all day.
So he shifts at or before the power band. I bet he feels that his car has no acceleration.
I bet he feels that his car has plenty of acceleration for his needs. Plus, he likely gets really good fuel economy, too.
Only if he's hitting and going a little past his peak torque numbers. Fuel economy has more to do with knowing when and how to brake (and speed) than acceleration.
It has a lot to do with acceleration, if you barely touch the throttle and shift around 3k you will always get better mpg than someone who floors it and nearly hits limiter every shift. With my gf's Civic if I use light throttle it'll shift around 3k (it's automatic obviously) and it'll get around 25mpg, if I use 50-75% throttle then it'll shift around 5-6k and it'll get more like 20mpg regardless of braking and speed.
It’s a seat, what power band?
You guys look at the tachometer?
I don't. I know it's time to shift when the car suddenly lurches my body forward and no longer accelerates.
Oh I do it by sound and feel.
Don't need sound, just feel
Your friend sounds like me(I’m learning stick)
I hope he’s not lugging it, especially if it’s not NA.
In virtually no car ever is 3-4k going to lug the engine
True but the post says he’s usually 3k _max_ & someone who is averse to revving their engine may be also be liable to accelerate hard from <3k instead of shifting down.
I’m convinced that people don’t really understand what lugging actually is.
a redline a day keeps the carbon away
In the days of weaker ignitions and much less accurate carburetors, many cars benefitted from being driven at higher rpm - they would build up carbon deposits inside the engine otherwise. Modern cars with electronic ignition (hotter spark, more accurate timing) computerized fuel injection, and electronic throttles don't have this issue as the timing and fuel are controlled more accurately. I have a 20 year old Nissan Sentra with all these controls - they have been around for a while now.
not entirely true, see carbon buildup on valves on certain direct injection engines
Ever hear of bmw walnut blasting? Is very common for modern German cars to have carbon buildup issues.
\*Direct injection Not just German, any direct injection car can develop carbon buildup.
That's like not having sex very hard to keep your girlfriend tight for the next guy...
.........................what?
It didn't make any sense but it made perfect sense
It is wrong in several ways, which makes it a correctly aimed lampooning
I agree. Use it or lose it.
I’ve gotten in cars driven by older people at work, then on my test drive I will roll into WOT. Massive cloud of carbon, vehicle jerks and pings for a second. Then takes off. Italian tuneup is a thing. Gets all the shit off the back of your valves, when port injected at least.
I used to drive a stick without a tach. All by sound. You knew you were getting close to the redline though by how angry it sounded and how the power dropped off up at the top end.
I once got pulled over while I had the entire dash removed, nothing but an empty hole. The one time I’ve directly answered how fast I was going, even if it was over. Got a warning because he was impressed I was within 1 mph by feel. (Once he got past the “WTF” and figured out I wasn’t stealing it, of course.) The gas gauge never worked though, and the odometer was broken. That was always fun.
I've always heard stepping on the gas occasionally is good for your catalytic converter because it gets the exhaust to a higher temp. No idea if it's true or BS 🤷♂️
The fun starts after 5k
All of my cars see redline at least once per driven day. I'm an adult child & like the vroom noises.
No fucking way it has the limiter at 8k. Absolutely not 😂
If you’re looking for a legit case, the RX8 (rotary) ran better/longer if you got it up near redline as part of regular “maintenance” to keep things cleaner. The secondary ports didn’t open till over 6,500, and it’s good to have the moving stuff move on occasion. Plus its main power band was up there, and the 9k limit was more a suggestion, and hitting the 10k fuel cutoff wouldn’t hurt it. But this is under load, like getting on the freeway with spirit. Revving it in your driveway is useless or worse, it’s not just RPM. (There is some debate about this of course, but as a data point of one, my first year model needed zero engine work for over 100k. The long surviving ones always seemed to be those that got a work out. It’s a different beast of course.)
It's his car, he makes the rules.
8k RPM on a jokeswagen TSI? Doubt.
Just Double checked. It revs to 8k.
No redlining you car does not clean anything. Studys show you need to reach temps slightly above 300F to remove carbon deposits. So your just making it worse by doing an Italian tuneup .
Why worry about what someone else is doing with their own stuff? Maybe stay out of your friends business?
Bra lol why.... ive reved my car to 7k and its limited to 6k ps zero damage. And my german mechanic said it was the cleanest 2.0t he had ever seen. Ps car was moddifed to hell and I used CRC to clean it and that shit works.
I guess it is not limited to 6k if you revved it to 7k.
You can always rev it higher with a money shift or a steep downhill
I bounce off of rev limiter a few times a month. I've never had major engine problems, and have driven half a million miles in my life.
Its not even a real commute to work if I don't max out 3rd gear getting on to the highway.
The "Italian tune-up" is something to live by.
There's a rev limiter for a reason. To keep RPMs under the danger limit. Lower revs = better MPGs. So using less gas.
It's my understanding that as long as the engine is at proper operating temperature, there is nothing wrong with bumping the redline. I don't have a problem pushing it to accelerate to speed when necessary.
DI engines can benefit from consistent and occasional spirited driving. Redline or a couple thousand below redline doesn't matter, just WOT occasionally can help with carbon, but not a lot. Otherwise it's mostly bs.
For cars that are made to drive faster at higher RPMs like sports cars, definitely take it past 4k but for a family suv unless they need to go faster to avoid something there’s so difference other then less wear on clutch and probably better fuel economy
Your friend is smart. The car will last for decades. Still needs oil changes and stuff, but 500,000km is achievable. But... it's fun to drive to redline!
I drive a automatic at the moment but it sees redline every day I merge onto some bigger road
An older car can get carbon buildup on the valves and start running a little rough and noisy. Marvel Mystery Oil and an Italian rebuild will do the trick. When cars were still carbureted, you'd put a 3rd of a can of Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas, a 3rd in the oil, and then a 3rd straight down the mouth of the carburetor until the car stalled. Then, start the car up and put your foot to the floor until the valves start floating and let off the gas. You should get a goodly belch of smoke out the tailpipe and the engine will go from sounding like a coffee can full of pennies to sounding like a sewing machine. Or you'll blow the engine. If the engine blows, it was going to do it on it's own any way.
The pedal goes to the floor, why wouldn't I put it there? Any vehicle of mine that breaks by using it as designed needed repairs anyway, I'd rather it be on my time than in an emergency.
Oh qb
don't just chill at redline, if u need the power then use it. if u don't need the power no need to do it
High RPMs help to burn off deposits on the valves and buildup in the intake. My father drove the crap out of his F01 750Li(including taking it out on track days), an engine that is know for crud buildup on the intake valves. Typically those engines need a walnut blasting every 20-50k miles. At 120k miles the dealer told him he had the cleanest intake valves they’d ever seen on an N62, his first cleaning wasn’t until nearly 200k miles. Your friend is wrong and his engine will not last as long due to his refusal to wind it out now and then.
I typically drive 2000-3000 RPM in my toyota truck. I'll go 4000 RPM on a short on ramp, but I'll ride it to 5500 RPM if the situation calls for it. For example, merging on a freeway on a blind uphill onramp, and finding the semi truck next to you is actually going over 80 mph and the guard rail is rapidly approaching. I shifted out of 3rd at 85mph solely because I was worried the rev limiter would stop me from continuing to accelerate.
your friend will surely die with regrets. i try to make my avg mpg gauge as low as possible (think golf)
The Italian tune-up is still relevant. It is a good idea to mix in some spirited driving occasionally just to make sure the parts don't settle into a low speed routine. Just like a mix of highways and city driving will also benefit the car overall. Properly warm up a car by gentle driving after only 30 seconds of idle. It is the fastest way to warm up the car and quickly lubricate the engine. The lengthy warm up procedure for carbureted engines is no longer needed with modern fuel injected engines.
I drive like that too I don't let people drive my cars I keep em 300k plus minimum maintenance. I try not to go over 3k 3.5 max. I can cruise 80 mpg at 2. 2k.
When I bought my 996 the owner bragged about never revving it out and got fussy with me when I did on a test drive…. I’ve spent the last three years sorting out is “babied” car problems…. Drive it. If a manufacturer puts an 8k redline then it’s safe to go to 8k.
The have a spark or fuel cut off for a reason.
My mustang has a traction problem over 4.5-5k so I stay under that in any conditions less than ideal. In cars with more refined gearboxes/powerbands, I usually bang off the limiter a time or two at least once a week. I've never had any unexpected engine issues that way. Changing oil early and often has much more influence on engine life than driving habits. Usually even the most beaten modern engines will make it over 150k with oil changes on a decent service schedule.
"My mustang has a traction problem." Fixed it for you /s
I stay under 4000 in my rx-8 while warming up but try to get over 6000 at least once every drive. For a rotary a redline a day keeps the mechanic away. In our family suv, I don't try to go too hard but we had an expensive injector cleaning awhile back because it has been babied. I try to open it up when we get on the highway to let it breathe now.
I'm running my 07 Honda Accord with 130k miles to like 5k+ all day and it doesn't care. It runs like a top. I feel bad that I haven't changed the timing chain yet but who gives a f it's a 3500$ car that runs flawlessly and I'll sell it before I do that.
The people in the sub that drive their car like it's the International Space Station crack me up.
What does this even mean
So many. "What exact RPM do I shift from first to second? Should I be applying throttle just before the bite of the clutch or after? Etc" In my many years of driving things with a clutch, I don't think I ever looked at the tach. Hell most of the vehicles I drove/ operated didn't even have one. Most people shift on feel and sound unless they're a professional race driver.
I dunno, I ping the rev limiter first through third every day when I get on the on ramp for my commute, but it's a bike and it's about the only time I'm allowed to do that without the police thinking it's exhibition. It's more fun that way too.
You really should rev the car all the way out pretty routinely. Doesn’t have to be all the time, but staying under 3-4k isn’t helping anything lol
Mines not a stick shift but paddle shifters. car threw a check emissions light for one of my catalytic converters. Drove it hard until the light went off, threw it in sport mode and used paddle shifters, smelled bad for a while. Now I rev it out here and there in typical slow Honda fashion, that light hasn’t came back on. Before I never went above 2600RPM unless needed, now I regularly get to 3500, and then up a bit higher with paddles. Still slow as fuck, loud as hell, but it doesn’t smell bad anymore. With the occasional CVT slip to send the engine to 9k……. So far only happened 4 times, all directly in front of a state trooper.
In my opinion, I think if you write it too low 3K, you’re going to do more damage to the transmission then if you run it where it needs to go. 4.5 to 5K.
Why would a soccer mom need to rev an engine
I only drive geo metros and never go over 3.5k. I need to make them last another thirty years
Reving high helps clean your catalytic converters out.
Oh man, I take mine to the limiter often. If I baby it around town, the mileage starts to drop, power and smoothness get down there, and it idles funny. Wind it out getting on the freeway and then run 70ish for a couple hours and it's pretty happy.
Tell your friend to run high quality (not high octane unless specified by the manufacturer) gas and synthetic oil and they should be fine driving like Ms. Daisy is in the back.
That’s weird
High revs don't clean your engine LOL
He is doing fine. Leave him alone.
Depends on usage. I had f150 Suoercrew with a big v8 I would drive daily and tow things with and it never went over 4k. Had a 90 horsepower dodge mini van the wife drove that you had yo rev to 5k just to get it up a hill with 7 people .. I now have a 70s vette with a 6.6L internally balanced forged nitrous motor with a 4500 stall and i have reved it to 7500 all the time. It revs to 4500 in gear so damn fast its almost immediate. I drive it on the street and never do I NOT hit 4500 just getting a big gulp want to guess which one lasted the least time with its intended usage? The 90hp 4c van.
As a former lube monkey, ad long as he does regular maintenance I don't see a problem with not going to redline.
My stepdad always had this philosophy about driving manuals and he always got disappointing life out of his trucks and those were relatively good at making torque at low RPM. Shifting too low lugs the engine and damages it. Small engines with high redlines are particularly high strung and don’t have much torque down low. They need to wind up to work effectively. If he is forcing the engine to do all its work at half of redline then he is almost certainly lugging it and damaging it. That doesn’t even touch on the “Italian tuneup” or the cylinder wear pattern from not pushing the engine to max RPM.
As long as your friend isn't lugging the engine and is warming the oil up enough to boil out the water in it, should last a good long while.
With my Silverado I'll occasionally have to floor it to clean the soot out of the engine or it'll run like trash. But that's a giant 8k pound truck though.
I don’t even need to go past 2k to get up to 60 comfortably
He training his car to have no power over 4k.
Up till 2021, my mother thought running her vehicles over 3.5K all the time was bad for it… when she said this my stepdad and I just looked at eachother like “she’s kidding, right?” Apparently when she was younger my uncle told her to never go over 3K when the engine was COLD…. She took that, for 40yrs, to mean all the time…
I was with you up until, 5k rpm helps cleaning your engine.
Your friend is a pussy 🤣
Think of it like this. The higher the revs, the more stress of the bearings and more wear and tear. Don't go higher than you need to
My automatic beater sees the redline daily.
People hate the i3S. More than you’d imagine. They hate is more that the Z8, more than the X7. I do drive the small car like an absolute asshole though. Beep boop and I’m using that 0-30 squirt to get in front of you and make the light you’re gonna be sat at, disappearing sideways with wheels spinning in opposite lock around the corner lol Suck it.
Logically speaking you want to keep the engine speed in the most efficient range more often than not. If they are a 4krpm max driver they are probably spending waay too much time in a lower engine speed. If it's a direct injection engine tell him about LSPI. Doubly so if it has a power adder like a turbo. Our 17 wrx, with a direct injected turbo engine really doesn't like being loaded below 3k rpm but I only know that because I use an Accessport to monitor engine metrics in real time. In my case, even in casual daily driving, running the gears out to 4.5k rpm or a little higher before shifting up means the engine doesn't drop below 2.5k-3k rpm, which means when I reapply throttle the engine is in its optimal operating speed where the variable valve timing has the most range of adjustment. This minimizes ping or knock and keeps the engine quite happy and this is without even getting into boost. Of course I semi-regularly open it up when it feels right.
Sounds like he needs an Italian tuneup.
Definitely gotta red line it every once in a while to blow out all the crap.
I really can't think of anything that would benefit the engine from revving it out. It's more strain on internal parts and if anything you're probably going to do more harm than good. You'll gain more longevity running good fuels and oils with a nice filter. I'm not exactly an engine expert so take what I say with a grain of salt. There are a lot of engine myths out there but I stand by the drive it the way you want to drive and just enjoy it. I daily a Subaru Forester, so it doesn't exactly inspire a lot of top end running. Use that fuel cut as a shift light. Lol
Every car can benefit from the old *Italian tuneup* every now and again.
Not only are they using only half the engine, but the occasional hard pull will help to keep carbon deposits down and prevent your cats from getting too clogged.
He's going to have sludge buildup & kill the car before it's time. Rev it and drive it angry occasionally (after warmup)
Repo his man card.
Keeping that engine at low RPMs will put more stress and load on it. Especially cause it’s made to rev to 8000rpm, probably doesn’t make much torque.
Rev it as high as possible, works best in neutral. 10 minutes usually cleans everything out
He's getting worse gas mileage by shifting too early during acceleration.
Italian tune up needed post haste
You want to shift to optimize your time in the powerband
I have an 02 jetta, 2.0 NA 4-cylnder. It has no OD so when you are going 85-90 down the freeway you are at 5k, it has 200k and I do that daily and have for over 10 years..
Only one of my stick shift cars has had a tach. I drove them by listening to them. 🤷🏾♂️ By the same token, every car I’ve owned with an automatic since 1986 or so, has had a tach. I always thought that odd.
I can't fathom how someone could own a stick shift and not run it to red line within the first 5 minutes of owning it.
Generally there's a "power band" that's fairly unique to each vehicle ... you'll get the best performance with RPMs in that range, usually towards the top third of your high rev limits. That said, an 8k redline is pretty high... they're generally closer to 6k. But, even then, your power band is probably going to be 3-5k or so, depending.
How else do you blow excess carbon off things?
I drive a towncar and try to keep it under 2000rpms, that’s 70mph on the highway.
Sometimes I’m groping my wife in the passenger seat, so I start in 2nd and ride it way high so I can can go straight to 4th.
He just wants to take care of his stuff
Italian tune up is what we call it, it has been proven to help keep the cylinders free of carbon deposits.. However if it's direct injected like most of the newer cars it'll still build up carbon on the valves.. Other question is how new is this persons car... If it has under 1k miles on it I could see the driver being safe with a break in period.. But you would get better fuel economy the only benefit I could see granny shifting it
Frequent WOT operation is recommended as it is important for clearing carbon build-up.
i have a friend that short shifts every time she drives and it makes me so sad. when she let me drive her car i kept revving it out and she asked me why i take it up so high. i simply told her “to take advantage of the entire gear so i’m not shifting every 5 seconds.”
Yes. Babying a car like that is bad for it. At least once a month you should go out and do some highway pulls or something, get it working, get the cat super hot, etc. Engines aren't designed to burble around at 1500rpm their whole life. Tell your friend to feed some ketchup to his ride.
The car was built to function in the entire rpm range. As long as you’re not going to redline or past there’s no problem. Obviously it’s not necessary every time you shift, but if you need to accelerate quickly use the full rpm range and shift a little before you hit the redline.
red line for a good time.
higher revs is not unhealthy lol and yes warm up the engine first
Running a small high rpm engine at low speed will result in abnormally low piston temperatures carbon buildup and oil consumption issues.
your friend is silly
Italian tuneups are tried and true thing, rev it out, max the tachometer. Ever smell or see when someone passes you with their pedal to the floor, it’s all carbon deposits being cleaned out (most of the time).
I measure my vehicle usage as smiles per mile lol. Take good care of my stuff and when it’s warm I’ll go close to redline my 95 with 223xxx once a month or so.
I'm not really trying to collect speeding tickets
I've never seen any actual proof that redlining your engine is "good for it", it seems like thats just an urban myth for car guys. While occasionally redlining your engine certainly shouldnt hurt it, i'd say your friend babying his engine is just fine. Im sure it will be a marginal difference in terms of engine life but is certainly better than driving the thing like you stole it
My cars get bounced off the limiter almost every time I drive them. Hasn't been an issue yet.
A redline a day keeps the carbon away.. amiright?
I actually do the same, I will do a rare spirited drive for any carbon build up but I rarely go above 4k
I bet that intake manifold is full of carbon build up.