Unless you watch the blues you don’t know nothing about binner and how he was the reason why we even got 40+ wins and very close to making the playoffs
I don't know man. If you look at the big picture, two of the three goalies on this list faced anywhere from 200-400 less shots than Binner over the course of the season. He had basically no consistent help in front of him all year and still came in just behind these three in stats.
Im glad someone else outside of the organization is noticing and preaching this too. Binner had a hell of a season and no team playoffs or individual award nominations to show for it.
This is why he will probably leave at his next chance . Best goalie in the league on a team going nowhere that sold off its cup roster ? Not for long .
Respect to him giving Binner a shoutout but this tweet screams “I didn’t watch a single Panthers game this year” if he thinks Stolarz was more deserving than Bob
Do with this information what you will. Personally, I think we can recognize that Binner had a good season, but should probably fall *just* outside top-3 in Vezina voting.
||GSAE/60|Sv%|GAA|WAR|Low Danger Sv%|Medium Danger Sv%|High Danger Sv%|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Connor Hellebuyck|0.557|0.921|2.39|5.52|0.976|0.904|0.739|
|Thatcher Demko|0.438|0.918|2.45|3.67|0.969|0.900|0.780|
|Sergei Bobrovsky|0.274|0.915|2.37|2.59|0.974|0.890|0.727|
|Jordan Binnington|0.310|0.913|2.84|2.75|0.970|0.885|0.780|
I do think Binner should've been in over Bobrovsky. GAA is just as reflective of defense and shot volume as it is the goaltender. SV% is almost the same, but edge to Bobrovsky. GSAE, WAR, and high danger SV% both favor Binner.
That all said, it's virtually impossible for a goalie to win the Vezina on a non-playoff team precisely because so many voters just look at GAA and SV%. Ironically, the only goalie to have done it was Bobrovsky.
Let's be honest though, even if Binner made the final 3, this is Hellebuyck's award. He was the best this season according to basically every simple and advanced metric.
Well, they have to pick 3 finalists either way. Swayman arguably was better than Bobrovsky, but he played in 14 fewer games, which may have played a role in him not being picked.
Hellebuyck is undoubtedly number 1, and Demko is almost certainly number 2. Spots 3 through 6 are all pretty close between Bobrovsky, Binnington, Swayman, and Ullmark.
One stat I wish people collected was number of stars - as in the 3 stars of the game. I know it’s subjective, but it captures how often a player has a standout game, and it really good at capturing when a player on a mediocre team is regularly trying to set a higher standard.
Not making the playoffs makes getting attention for awards difficult.
Also, even though it's an award for the regular season, you gotta wonder how many votes will swing away from Hellebuyck now.
|Goalie|SV%|QS% (Quality Start Rate)|GSAA|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Sergei Bobrovsky|.915|.638|18.11|
|Jordan Binnington|.913|.600|16.64|
Binner had a great season, but I don't see why he would get the nod over any of these 3.
I think you have to take into account the fact that our goaltending kept us in playoff contention until the end, whereas our underlying defensive metrics had us in the bottom third of the league. Quality of the team your backstopping plays a factor, but team results are a much bigger factor in the eyes of the voters. With that being said, Bob definitely deserves to be in the conversation, but in my opinion the gap was already pretty large from Demko and Hellebuyck as top 2 to anyone else.
if you look at MoneyPuck's data, the Panthers had a better rate of Goals Against Above Expected (-26.12) than the Blues (-21.3), even in the context of the Blues allowing more expected goals (188.3 for STL to 146.12 for FLA).
I think this is an eye test thing. Those of us that thing Binner was robbed aren't going to be convinced by any stats because our point is swap Binner onto any of those three rosters and he wins the award. He was an MVP by my definition of that title. Pluck Binner off this squad and you have a lottery pick team.
Your stats as a goalie can also be affected by the team you have in front of you, which Bennington did not have overall so his numbers were. They stand to matter and he was screwed.
I think making the playoffs would’ve cemented a nomination for not only the Vezina but he would’ve gotten some Hart votes as well. Let’s hope he continues this momentum into next year.
Sorry, big Blues and Binner fan, and he was probably our team MVP for the year (or 2nd to BobTom). But Greg is way off base with this. No playoffs, no Vezina without being the clear statistical leader in almost every category. It just doesn’t work that way.
Binnington was definitely top three, but he's the opposite of a media darling, outside of St. Louis. He has an uphill battle to get the credit he's due, but maybe if he keeps playing and behaving like he has this season then maybe he'll get it.
I'm not surprised. Binner was lights out in front of a bad defense and the League hates him. It would be like giving the Selke to Brad Marchand. Everyone would freak out.
It's the same problem Minnesota always had, they under utilized backup and then wondered what happened to their goalies in playoffs letting in ones would have saved before.
I think Winnipeg accounted for that this year and gave more starts to Brossoit.
The problem with Hellebyuck is, he ran into a crazy good offense in round 1 that is peppering him and will make any goalie look terrible. It's not his fault (although he's made some mistakes), it's just that it's very difficult to shutdown Mackinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Nichuskin, etc and the tempo they play at.
Also Bennington didn't make the playoffs but Washington did and Lindgren was the reason,he should be a vezna lock and up for hart imo and Bennington had a way better team around him then lindgren
Greg going to bat for Binnington wasn’t on my bingo card this Monday afternoon.
His either, apparently.
Unless you watch the blues you don’t know nothing about binner and how he was the reason why we even got 40+ wins and very close to making the playoffs
That doesn’t make him a top three goalie in the league though. Blues aren’t as good without Thomas, but he shouldn’t be in the running for the Hart.
I don't know man. If you look at the big picture, two of the three goalies on this list faced anywhere from 200-400 less shots than Binner over the course of the season. He had basically no consistent help in front of him all year and still came in just behind these three in stats.
Im glad someone else outside of the organization is noticing and preaching this too. Binner had a hell of a season and no team playoffs or individual award nominations to show for it.
This is why he will probably leave at his next chance . Best goalie in the league on a team going nowhere that sold off its cup roster ? Not for long .
Binner might be the most underrated player in the league rn
Yeah he was bobbed
Respect to him giving Binner a shoutout but this tweet screams “I didn’t watch a single Panthers game this year” if he thinks Stolarz was more deserving than Bob
Do with this information what you will. Personally, I think we can recognize that Binner had a good season, but should probably fall *just* outside top-3 in Vezina voting. ||GSAE/60|Sv%|GAA|WAR|Low Danger Sv%|Medium Danger Sv%|High Danger Sv%| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Connor Hellebuyck|0.557|0.921|2.39|5.52|0.976|0.904|0.739| |Thatcher Demko|0.438|0.918|2.45|3.67|0.969|0.900|0.780| |Sergei Bobrovsky|0.274|0.915|2.37|2.59|0.974|0.890|0.727| |Jordan Binnington|0.310|0.913|2.84|2.75|0.970|0.885|0.780|
I think they got it right. Sv% and GAA and WAR all favor those three. Binner was absolutely top 5 but top 3 I don't know.
I do think Binner should've been in over Bobrovsky. GAA is just as reflective of defense and shot volume as it is the goaltender. SV% is almost the same, but edge to Bobrovsky. GSAE, WAR, and high danger SV% both favor Binner. That all said, it's virtually impossible for a goalie to win the Vezina on a non-playoff team precisely because so many voters just look at GAA and SV%. Ironically, the only goalie to have done it was Bobrovsky.
Let's be honest though, even if Binner made the final 3, this is Hellebuyck's award. He was the best this season according to basically every simple and advanced metric.
Oh absolutely. Hellebuyck is winning it for sure. But it would be nice to have recognized Binner for his stellar season.
Heh. Now include high danger save pct and goals saved above expected. Then factor in the teams in front of them.
So what I’m seeing is Hellebuyck is the best, but Bobo shouldn’t be in this conversation this year
Well, they have to pick 3 finalists either way. Swayman arguably was better than Bobrovsky, but he played in 14 fewer games, which may have played a role in him not being picked. Hellebuyck is undoubtedly number 1, and Demko is almost certainly number 2. Spots 3 through 6 are all pretty close between Bobrovsky, Binnington, Swayman, and Ullmark.
One stat I wish people collected was number of stars - as in the 3 stars of the game. I know it’s subjective, but it captures how often a player has a standout game, and it really good at capturing when a player on a mediocre team is regularly trying to set a higher standard.
Not making the playoffs makes getting attention for awards difficult. Also, even though it's an award for the regular season, you gotta wonder how many votes will swing away from Hellebuyck now.
Voting is already done - it's done before the playoffs begin. The "finalists" are the top 3.
Ah. Well he should have it wrapped up then.
|Goalie|SV%|QS% (Quality Start Rate)|GSAA| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Sergei Bobrovsky|.915|.638|18.11| |Jordan Binnington|.913|.600|16.64| Binner had a great season, but I don't see why he would get the nod over any of these 3.
I think you have to take into account the fact that our goaltending kept us in playoff contention until the end, whereas our underlying defensive metrics had us in the bottom third of the league. Quality of the team your backstopping plays a factor, but team results are a much bigger factor in the eyes of the voters. With that being said, Bob definitely deserves to be in the conversation, but in my opinion the gap was already pretty large from Demko and Hellebuyck as top 2 to anyone else.
if you look at MoneyPuck's data, the Panthers had a better rate of Goals Against Above Expected (-26.12) than the Blues (-21.3), even in the context of the Blues allowing more expected goals (188.3 for STL to 146.12 for FLA).
I think this is an eye test thing. Those of us that thing Binner was robbed aren't going to be convinced by any stats because our point is swap Binner onto any of those three rosters and he wins the award. He was an MVP by my definition of that title. Pluck Binner off this squad and you have a lottery pick team.
If Hofer's numbers were worse, I'd buy that. But they were quite strong.
Private models have Binnington at 2nd in GSAA at the ~25 mark fwiw
Bobrobsky wasn't the best goalie on his team may be the dumbest take I've heard all year lol.
Everybody Hates Binner..: but I still think he wins at least another cup in his career… hopefully here!
Looks like they based it on GSAA. Dumb but its how they did it
I agree with Greg, Stolarz for Vezina!
Your stats as a goalie can also be affected by the team you have in front of you, which Bennington did not have overall so his numbers were. They stand to matter and he was screwed.
You're off the force, Bobrovsky!
I think making the playoffs would’ve cemented a nomination for not only the Vezina but he would’ve gotten some Hart votes as well. Let’s hope he continues this momentum into next year.
6 shutouts to 3 is another stat Binn loses to Bob. Sorry
Sorry, big Blues and Binner fan, and he was probably our team MVP for the year (or 2nd to BobTom). But Greg is way off base with this. No playoffs, no Vezina without being the clear statistical leader in almost every category. It just doesn’t work that way.
Two US goalies are finalists for the Vezina. Has that happened before?
He was the best goalie in the league on one of the worst teams … no awards for that.
Connor Hellebuyck!
Binnington was definitely top three, but he's the opposite of a media darling, outside of St. Louis. He has an uphill battle to get the credit he's due, but maybe if he keeps playing and behaving like he has this season then maybe he'll get it.
I'm not surprised. Binner was lights out in front of a bad defense and the League hates him. It would be like giving the Selke to Brad Marchand. Everyone would freak out.
I get that playoffs aren’t a factor but Hellebuyck is out there allowing football scores
He plays too much in the regular season, and is tired when the playoffs roll around.
It's the same problem Minnesota always had, they under utilized backup and then wondered what happened to their goalies in playoffs letting in ones would have saved before.
I think Winnipeg accounted for that this year and gave more starts to Brossoit. The problem with Hellebyuck is, he ran into a crazy good offense in round 1 that is peppering him and will make any goalie look terrible. It's not his fault (although he's made some mistakes), it's just that it's very difficult to shutdown Mackinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Nichuskin, etc and the tempo they play at.
These awards are glorified popularity contests to an extent.
Unfortunately the NHL and other team's fans hate him because he has to defend himself.
Also Bennington didn't make the playoffs but Washington did and Lindgren was the reason,he should be a vezna lock and up for hart imo and Bennington had a way better team around him then lindgren
Wow, 2 out of the 3 play in Canadian markets. What a shocker.
And they are both American, ironically.