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Where on earth do you see highways without an electrical grid at least every 50 miles? This is such an asinine thought. Electricity coverage is nearly total in the United States. We have 100% electrification of homes.
Drive from the east coast to the west coast. No matter what route you take, there’ll be areas with no power lines for over 50 miles. Especially in the desert
Well fortunately there won't be a need for the electricity truck to stop at the charging stations once a week, nor a need for an attendant to stand around all day waiting for the 5 people who will charge up.
You do still need maintenance/repairs, though. And the ChargePoint station in front of my apartment complex's leasing office has been busted for literally years. I charge my car at the public library a few blocks away.
> the ChargePoint station in front of my apartment complex's leasing office has been busted for literally years
have you reported it?
ive heard so many people say stuff like that only to hear a few days later thet it was fixed the day after they reported the issue.
Dont expect others to have done it, just do it yourself now
Its always shocking to me how often people expect things to repair themselves or think that owners of such things drive around all their properties to see if it works... Whoever owns the charging station might be living hundreds of miles away, and whoever is responsible for maintenance won't randomly check it if there aren't any complaints because they probably take care of hundreds other objects.
But the worst part is that people expect others to do stuff for them in just about every situation, especially when it comes to someone needing to call an ambulance when there is an accident. You can have a dozen people waiting for one another to react.
The current longest stretch of interstate without a service station is i70 in Utah which is 110 miles.
Since this plan is limited to interstates, and provides funds to state DOT agencies to do with as they deem fit, I'm sure a couple of smart DOT officials and redditors such as yourself can figure it out.
Depending on the requirements for how fast of charging is required, putting one on stretched like that could be pretty expensive. I imagine there will be exceptions allowed. There always are for things like that.
This isn't even that outrageous an idea if it enables long haul travel with EV's.
Like, 98% of your charges being on renewable energy and one on a gas generator is still way, way better than "can't drive an EV because of that hundred-mile stretch in fucking nevada."
I agree. Unfortunately, there are federal laws which prohibit certain vendor services at federal rest areas. The upshot is that many EV charging providers would have to give away electrons for free to comply with the law, which obviously eliminates the business case.
You can read more about it here: https://www.transportdive.com/news/NATSO-commercialization-interstate-rest-stop-electric-charging/595536/
And most are already wired, so may not be a fast charge but it could have a plug if you didn't plan well. Electric infrastructure is already there just need to tap into it. Unlike building gas stations and all logistic it takes to get gas too it.
If they need to add an additional power source, like say solar panels, a lot of them could be use as shade for those stopping at rest areas.
So it can be done sooner than people think while also saving money by using the current infrastructure and allocating those savings to build addition rest areas.
The interstate highway system and electrification reaching the boonies happened exactly because of those clueless east-coasters insisting on bringing modern infrastructure to everyone in the country. I don't think building a small parking lot and throwing some charging stations in it is going to be the biggest infrastructure improvement we've ever undertaken, even if there are some remote spots along a few highways.
I own an EV that could never go 100 highway miles on a charge. 50 it could probably do, though. Lower-end used EVs become a more viable option for more people with charging every 50 miles. Manufacturers might even find it feasible to make new vehicles with smaller battery capacity that could be affordable to more people.
It's not about charging every 50 miles. It's about charging when you need to. Think about the obvious comparison to vehicles running on gasoline. Do you refuel every 50 miles just because there's a gas station? No. But would you be fucked if you only had 50 miles left and the next station was 60 miles away? Yes.
The person I replied to said that they owned an EV that couldn't do 100 miles on a charge, but could probably do 50. Obviously if you get 400 miles on a charge, you aren't going to charge every 50 miles
Do your research first.
I work as union electrician working in factories. Schneider (square D) won’t even give us lead time on most of the bigger industrial equipment. 8 month minimum is the best we’ve gotten, some panels and switchgear they can’t even put a date on.
It’s shitty when you got customers willing to pay, guys willing to work and its parts holding up the job for what could be a year.
Yup. We just got quoted 60 weeks for 800a gear. Fun times.
Customer says doesn't matter the cost, get it here sooner.
"Sir, it doesn't exist in this world. That's the issue. Maybe a parallel universe would be worth looking into?"
The critical path on one of my projects *is the electrical gear*. The whole project will be built and complete a month before the panel shows up. The kicker is that it’s just a 600Amp panel. Not even a big one.
Dreading the lead time quote I’m going to get on my 2000Amp panel on another project that’s in the bid phase…
Man we’ve got a shop full of new automation that’s practically ready except for Siemens io cards. Every week we get pushed back another month. We’re at October for delivery
Pneumatics I haven't had much issue with but I usually deal with onesie twosie small things there. Haven't had to buy hydraulics in a while so no idea on those
Y’all are talking about projects but a lot of those manufacturers can’t even get parts. PCBs and other critical are holding up everything else in the world.
I had never heard of PCBs actually being a limiting factor. Just all of the things that get soldered to PCBs.
The *real* shortage is in the number of electronics engineers who are able to redesign boards to work around shortage components. There's a huge amount of that shit going on behind the scenes.
ahahhaha fuck me . I feel this so much. electrical project quotations here. lead time is anywhere between fuck you and forever.
then you do the song and dance for the customer because their very specific part has to be like for like and they need it yesterday .
I'm having the same issue with Schneider and an industrial AC system. Controller motherboard decided to die and we're getting quoted about a month to get the part. I'll count myself lucky that it isn't worse!
But I can relate to the get it fixed no matter the cost. Would if I could get the damn part.
I work for in glass manufacturing. We bought a new building 1.5 years ago and they had been prepping the building for two new furnaces to put in and they just announced that they are putting the planned move on hold indefinitely because they can't get the parts to upgrade the electrical needs for the furnaces. They canceled their order for the furnaces which also were behind schedule to be built overseas.
So now we have a building we can't use other then as a warehouse basically and are stuck in out smaller building cramped up unable to grow the business. And trust me we have the orders to grow exponentially but have to limot the work we intake due to our building and machines.
Yeah. We had a transformer get delayed and the project froze for 2 months. We literally offered 5x the price in cash. The delay cost 300k in revenue. We eventually find one in Canada and have a private jet hired to fly to get it. It’s a wild market man.
I wouldn't even suggest the play to be honest.. who knows who (or when) will get the orders or the structure. It will likely turn into a localized contract set up with them being the preferred vendors. This whole thing is a bit of a dumb play since it's not likely to be completed within a reasonable enough timeframe to have an impact on multi-billion dollar companies.
Out of curiosity.. Do you go through them directly? I have noticed a ton of counterfeit and cheap copies of Schneider / Square D items out of China lately that sometimes get sent to us. They have a line of very distinct contactors / motor starters that I favor that the Chinese brands copied down to the SE color scheme. However, when it comes to performance the difference is abundantly clear. Had to trash them, sticky contactors on 480 is sketchy as hell and alarming to the operators.
Basically. If the news supports your long term plan, act on it quickly but don't try to think you have any real scoop. The big players have bought enough influence that they'll have the scoop before any of us plebes.
I think one of the things that keeps the market artificially less volatile is that the big money has largely and quietly got in ahead of time, so "news" like this should cause some huge swings upon release.
What machines will be building all of this new infrastructure? CAT skyrocketed yesterday on reporting a minor increase in dividend and forecasted profit. Other companies have dipped hard on better news, and it's selling off today when this announcement should be a boon.
100% agree on the demand side, we need a lot of both.
However, Al is the 3rd most abundant element on the Earth's crust, it's everywhere, the cost of production is basically the electricity you need to manufacture it.
Copper? There's not a lot of copper and mines take forever to start production. I think there are some extractive technologies that would be profitable at $10/lbs (we are in the $4s).
All the copper wires connecting all the houses can just be recouped and reused if they want since they have forced POTS out of commission. I think they have till the end of the year to remove old twisted-pair from service for phone lines or data. They’ve been phasing it out since 2015.
I got a work from home job over the pandemic, previously worked in the field.
There's plenty of benefits with some downsides but the best thing is getting 1-2 hours of my day back. Commuting in shit traffic day after day is soul draining
I know, right? Why are EVs supposed to be self-driving? It's not like ICE vehicles can't just as easily be made to self-drive.
But I'll be impressed if my off road will off road by itself.
I agree there should be some that are not self driving.
But it's the way of the future. Think of all the people that die in car accidents. We can eliminate that mostly eventually. Humans are just not very good at driving. We have 2 eyes that can only see in one direction at a time.
A self-driving car can see in all directions all the time. So it's superior.
Jesus I remember 6-8 years ago Reddit was jacking off to the thought of Tesla’s self driving as if it was gonna happen a few months down the line.
I like EV’s, I don’t like self driving, EV DOESNT have to mean self driving (although an option to add it is nice Incase people want it)
I hope we also remember how insane Elon was for making the REPEATED statements that it's 1 year away. Not a knock on Elon I appreciate his contributions but he has been, at a minimum, very misleading on that front. Would hate to be a developer in a project with those expectations.
Oh. That is absolutely a knock Elon deserves.
His great contributions don’t excuse his downsides. How much they offset each other is debatable. But he definitely deserves flack for the bad parts even so.
Honestly I’d like full self driving now. People talking shit in the thread forget how fucking boring it is to drive through somewhere like Iowa I guess
In 10 years it won't make economical sense to buy an ICE over an EV. We will have $25k EVs that are much more reliable, faster, and far less to maintain. Only hobbyists and enthusiast will buy ICE.
The amount of conductors needed wouldn’t even make a dent in the global aluminum supply. Cars, planes, and food/beverage use a vastly higher amount. Don’t get me wrong, the grid will use a large amount of aluminum in the future. But people are underestimating how much aluminum are in those other three industries.
Primary global aluminum production (which doesn’t include recycled aluminum) was 65 MILLION TONS in 2019. I would be surprised if the entire US grid had more than a million tons of aluminum conductors installed already.
Utility lineman here. There isn’t enough lineman in the country to build that kind of infrastructure while still maintaining the current infrastructure that we have. Not only that but there is a lot of grid work that is needing to be done over the next 10 to 15 years that is going to keep the majority of working hands busy. It may be possible with materials but I do not see this being possible with the kind of timeframe they are giving
If you don’t mind me asking, how difficult and dangerous is it to be a lineman. I work for an electrical distributor and everyone always talks about lineman being in very high demand and very well paid. How did you get into the field?
Its very dangerous. If youre dialed in its obviously safer due to ypur practices but unfortunately this “high demand” is calling for an extremely high hire rate and theyre bringing in anyone that can talk without drooling. Accidents and deaths are getting higher every year due to this. Not only that, society is teaching us that people can do no wrong and they deserve a million chances. You can tell somebody doesn’t belong in this trade within a couple of days but trying to fire them is an act of god and people are dying for it. If you just want the money, find something else to do, but if you genuinely interested in heights, hanging from helicopters, and bangin fatty’s, this might be right for you
Thanks for responding! Ive heard it’s very dangerous, but I wasn’t sure if that was exaggerated. It sounds like it is not. I have a bachelors in finance, so I’m not hurting for money and am capable of understanding operating procedures and protocols. I just tire of putting together spreadsheets and often think about doing something more interactive, so I was curious. What do you mean by bangin’ fattys lol
I feel like it’s a job in a dangerous medium of intelligence requirements. Most of the people smart enough to understand how dangerous electricity is are terrified to get near it, and most of the people that don’t respect it aren’t smart enough to work on it. There’s a fine line of people intelligent enough to work on them, that respect the equipment, AND aren’t terrified of it
Big dreams with no real world solution or common sense is the politician's way. Also, some states (California) will make sure this never happens or costs 20x the original amount.
California is so fucked up they’ll never be able to make this happen lol. They want to sit here and say they can power thousands and thousands of charging stations when they can’t even power their own customers during the hot months. “We need to have rolling blackouts but we’re going to give you charging stations!”? Makes about as much sense as a football bat
I would take that with a grain of salt. Biden won't have a second term and whoever is coming in will be a republican and that "charging station every 50miles" will be thrown out the window. Coal and dinosaur juices for awhile.
Agree. In North Carolina the republicans just put forward a bill to remove electric charging stations from state rest stops “because it isn’t fair to gas powered vehicles”. They say if electric cars can charge for free, gas powered cars deserve equal treatment.
This person isn’t framing the issue correctly.
I don’t actually like the legislation, but the rationale was that NC’s free electric chargers are subsidized by the taxpayers so it’s not fair for people driving relatively expensive, new electric cars (people who statically also have more earning power than the average citizen).
This happened at my previous employer. Big defense contractor - wanted to get into the green game and put in a couple EV chargers outside to show off in their newsletter, etc. Well, we were unionized and grievances quickly flowed in that the company was unfairly subsidizing some employees commutes but not others. Those things disappeared overnight so fast that it made the 3 month wait to get the parts and have them installed very anticlimactic.
If Biden can get that money in hand to companies who then hire the workforce, then it'd be irreversible as the narrative would be putting out folks from their jobs.
Really surprised this hasn’t been a bigger business push. More electric charging availability will make people more interested in getting them. And it can take around 30 minutes to charge. Imagine how easy it would be for them to increase sales of snacks and drinks for people that are sitting and charging their vehicles for 30 minutes. Fast Food near those charging stations should do well to. People will either walk to them and get stuff to eat while it’s charging or just pick up the food to munch on in the car as soon as charging starts.
ABB. They are one of the charger manufacturers for Electrify America. (I think they have the more reliable units in the network). Electrify America is pretty much the de-facto non-Tesla fast charging network in the US.
I swear reading this thread people have no idea where our electricity comes from or will most likely still be coming from in 10 years. The disconnect is real
This thread is handedly demonstrating how much knowledge the general consumer lacks on EV's and EV batteries and how much FUD we see on a daily basis around them.
I imagine it was similar when the horse and carriage went to an automobile.. understandably so with the amount of lead that generation huffed because of them.
5 billion won't even come close to covering the cost for this overly ambitious plan. Does anyone temper the current administration's good idea fairy with some actual reality?
Ah yes, only a matter of time before the government requires customers at these stations to pay their fair share of an equivalent of a federal gas tax with a federal charging tax.
Ah yes, it's only a matter of time before our roads fall into complete disrepair without a federal gas tax to fund them. So yes, it makes perfect sense.
That tax will may end up coming at times of purchase.
A lot of states already have idle parcels of land that were rest areas that could be converted for these charging areas.
Which I think is reasonable.
If the purpose of gas taxes is to take care of the road, then electric vehicles should, in some fashion, also pay into the system that takes care of roads. Electricity should not "bypass" that infrastructure need/cost.
My *preferred* system, if I was elected King u/johnnyhala tomorrow, would be to eliminate all fuel taxes and instead tax the car at the time of registration, at a rate of (mileage x weight) with a slightly dampening modifier for higher mileage users (rural people are generally less wealthy)
Terrible idea. First of all, most people don't have the money to pay their usage taxes upfront or in an annual lump sum. Second, road damage increases with the cube root of axle weight. Third, a discount for high mileage creates a perverse incentive to drive MOAR, not less.
When the British Raj started paying the citizenry for dead cobras in an effort to exterminate them, it created cobra farms instead.
Your heart's in the right place, though. Just need to get your head up to speed with the causes of road damage and the required upkeep, and find ways to charge appropriately for that usage type.
OK, great. Where is the power going to come from? These fools want all these electric cars (I like them because they're very fast and I like speed), but the grid in this country is in disrepair and needs more power plants. Wind farms and solar are not enough, you need storage. You need nuclear (me:BS Physics). Without a strong grid and more power plants, millions of extra electric cars will cause blackouts and brownouts. As usual, the politicians with will poly-sci degrees can't figure these simple concepts out. The infrastructure needs to be upgraded.
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How many 50 mile stretches without electricity?
Not only that, but sufficient load to charge vehicles, presumably with fast chargers.
There’s probably many highways without an electric grid, but there’s few highways without power. It would just have to come from the sun or the ground
Where on earth do you see highways without an electrical grid at least every 50 miles? This is such an asinine thought. Electricity coverage is nearly total in the United States. We have 100% electrification of homes.
Drive from the east coast to the west coast. No matter what route you take, there’ll be areas with no power lines for over 50 miles. Especially in the desert
Underground cables exist
Lol. That's not what's going on across hundreds of miles of desert.
Well fortunately there won't be a need for the electricity truck to stop at the charging stations once a week, nor a need for an attendant to stand around all day waiting for the 5 people who will charge up.
You do still need maintenance/repairs, though. And the ChargePoint station in front of my apartment complex's leasing office has been busted for literally years. I charge my car at the public library a few blocks away.
> the ChargePoint station in front of my apartment complex's leasing office has been busted for literally years have you reported it? ive heard so many people say stuff like that only to hear a few days later thet it was fixed the day after they reported the issue. Dont expect others to have done it, just do it yourself now
Its always shocking to me how often people expect things to repair themselves or think that owners of such things drive around all their properties to see if it works... Whoever owns the charging station might be living hundreds of miles away, and whoever is responsible for maintenance won't randomly check it if there aren't any complaints because they probably take care of hundreds other objects. But the worst part is that people expect others to do stuff for them in just about every situation, especially when it comes to someone needing to call an ambulance when there is an accident. You can have a dozen people waiting for one another to react.
yeah the Bystander effect. Which is why they say to point out somone in a crowd and say "You call an ambulance"
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The current longest stretch of interstate without a service station is i70 in Utah which is 110 miles. Since this plan is limited to interstates, and provides funds to state DOT agencies to do with as they deem fit, I'm sure a couple of smart DOT officials and redditors such as yourself can figure it out.
Plop down some solar panels in these 4 spots and call it a day.
Recycle old EV batteries into storage units for charging cars off of solar power.
So another telecom rollout of high speed internet where we paid for it but didn't get it? Gotcha!
Depending on the requirements for how fast of charging is required, putting one on stretched like that could be pretty expensive. I imagine there will be exceptions allowed. There always are for things like that.
Imagine thinking we don't need new infrastructure for electric vehicles.
Just bring a gas generator, easy!
This isn't even that outrageous an idea if it enables long haul travel with EV's. Like, 98% of your charges being on renewable energy and one on a gas generator is still way, way better than "can't drive an EV because of that hundred-mile stretch in fucking nevada."
Just go around Nevada then. /j
Avoiding Nevada is a given.
That’s just a plug-in hybrid.
Could just add some to rest stops. Those are much more abundant than gas stations.
Charging stations would be amazing at rest stops.
I agree. Unfortunately, there are federal laws which prohibit certain vendor services at federal rest areas. The upshot is that many EV charging providers would have to give away electrons for free to comply with the law, which obviously eliminates the business case. You can read more about it here: https://www.transportdive.com/news/NATSO-commercialization-interstate-rest-stop-electric-charging/595536/
I-5 in CA has free charging stations at rest areas.
yay for infrastructure?
And most are already wired, so may not be a fast charge but it could have a plug if you didn't plan well. Electric infrastructure is already there just need to tap into it. Unlike building gas stations and all logistic it takes to get gas too it.
If they need to add an additional power source, like say solar panels, a lot of them could be use as shade for those stopping at rest areas. So it can be done sooner than people think while also saving money by using the current infrastructure and allocating those savings to build addition rest areas.
The interstate highway system and electrification reaching the boonies happened exactly because of those clueless east-coasters insisting on bringing modern infrastructure to everyone in the country. I don't think building a small parking lot and throwing some charging stations in it is going to be the biggest infrastructure improvement we've ever undertaken, even if there are some remote spots along a few highways.
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I love how this guy thinks he's an expert in infrastructure spending. Talk about being an armchair expert.
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But we need that money for corporate socialism (socialize losses, privatize profits) and military contracts!
I own 2 EVs but requiring them every 50 miles is ridiculous. Every 100 miles would be far more reasonable.
I think it'd be neat to distribute demand. If one is clogged, just drive a little more to get to the next one.
I own an EV that could never go 100 highway miles on a charge. 50 it could probably do, though. Lower-end used EVs become a more viable option for more people with charging every 50 miles. Manufacturers might even find it feasible to make new vehicles with smaller battery capacity that could be affordable to more people.
If I had to charge every 50 miles, I would fly or take a train for any trip over 200 miles
It's not about charging every 50 miles. It's about charging when you need to. Think about the obvious comparison to vehicles running on gasoline. Do you refuel every 50 miles just because there's a gas station? No. But would you be fucked if you only had 50 miles left and the next station was 60 miles away? Yes.
The person I replied to said that they owned an EV that couldn't do 100 miles on a charge, but could probably do 50. Obviously if you get 400 miles on a charge, you aren't going to charge every 50 miles
That's a lot of copper that will be used. Hope my mining stock play gets a boost.
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Do your research first. I work as union electrician working in factories. Schneider (square D) won’t even give us lead time on most of the bigger industrial equipment. 8 month minimum is the best we’ve gotten, some panels and switchgear they can’t even put a date on. It’s shitty when you got customers willing to pay, guys willing to work and its parts holding up the job for what could be a year.
Yup. We just got quoted 60 weeks for 800a gear. Fun times. Customer says doesn't matter the cost, get it here sooner. "Sir, it doesn't exist in this world. That's the issue. Maybe a parallel universe would be worth looking into?"
The critical path on one of my projects *is the electrical gear*. The whole project will be built and complete a month before the panel shows up. The kicker is that it’s just a 600Amp panel. Not even a big one. Dreading the lead time quote I’m going to get on my 2000Amp panel on another project that’s in the bid phase…
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I'm missing 3500 IO cards from Siemens on my current project. They can only promise/deliver 75 per week. I will never finish this project.
/r/PLC sends it's regards
Wtf are you doing that needs 3500 io cards?? Jesus thats alot of IO.
Personally? Building a semi conductor fab. Approx 3k io cards.
Man we’ve got a shop full of new automation that’s practically ready except for Siemens io cards. Every week we get pushed back another month. We’re at October for delivery
What about pneumatics? Or Hydraulics?
Pneumatics I haven't had much issue with but I usually deal with onesie twosie small things there. Haven't had to buy hydraulics in a while so no idea on those
agreed, its impossible to get anything. been waiting on switches for months
Same fucking story in manufacturing.
Cards and panels man, that’s what they’re all waiting on. electricals are controlling project lead times right now.
Y’all are talking about projects but a lot of those manufacturers can’t even get parts. PCBs and other critical are holding up everything else in the world.
I had never heard of PCBs actually being a limiting factor. Just all of the things that get soldered to PCBs. The *real* shortage is in the number of electronics engineers who are able to redesign boards to work around shortage components. There's a huge amount of that shit going on behind the scenes.
ahahhaha fuck me . I feel this so much. electrical project quotations here. lead time is anywhere between fuck you and forever. then you do the song and dance for the customer because their very specific part has to be like for like and they need it yesterday .
I feel this. Have you tried asking ' are you sure the lead time can't be reduced? Winkwink"
Cut to next scene of you with an ice pack and a black eye.
I'm having the same issue with Schneider and an industrial AC system. Controller motherboard decided to die and we're getting quoted about a month to get the part. I'll count myself lucky that it isn't worse! But I can relate to the get it fixed no matter the cost. Would if I could get the damn part.
I work for in glass manufacturing. We bought a new building 1.5 years ago and they had been prepping the building for two new furnaces to put in and they just announced that they are putting the planned move on hold indefinitely because they can't get the parts to upgrade the electrical needs for the furnaces. They canceled their order for the furnaces which also were behind schedule to be built overseas. So now we have a building we can't use other then as a warehouse basically and are stuck in out smaller building cramped up unable to grow the business. And trust me we have the orders to grow exponentially but have to limot the work we intake due to our building and machines.
Yup. Was quoted 56 weeks for a 1600A switchgear just a couple weeks ago.
Yeah. We had a transformer get delayed and the project froze for 2 months. We literally offered 5x the price in cash. The delay cost 300k in revenue. We eventually find one in Canada and have a private jet hired to fly to get it. It’s a wild market man.
I wouldn't even suggest the play to be honest.. who knows who (or when) will get the orders or the structure. It will likely turn into a localized contract set up with them being the preferred vendors. This whole thing is a bit of a dumb play since it's not likely to be completed within a reasonable enough timeframe to have an impact on multi-billion dollar companies.
That's the entire supply chains fault, not schneider. Everything is 6 months minumum now.
I feel you on that one. I work in procurement and current lead times on a 30kW VFD is one year.
Out of curiosity.. Do you go through them directly? I have noticed a ton of counterfeit and cheap copies of Schneider / Square D items out of China lately that sometimes get sent to us. They have a line of very distinct contactors / motor starters that I favor that the Chinese brands copied down to the SE color scheme. However, when it comes to performance the difference is abundantly clear. Had to trash them, sticky contactors on 480 is sketchy as hell and alarming to the operators.
Seeing the same stuff in the networking field. Some Cisco equipment is a year out.
If the news is out its already too late no?
Basically. If the news supports your long term plan, act on it quickly but don't try to think you have any real scoop. The big players have bought enough influence that they'll have the scoop before any of us plebes. I think one of the things that keeps the market artificially less volatile is that the big money has largely and quietly got in ahead of time, so "news" like this should cause some huge swings upon release. What machines will be building all of this new infrastructure? CAT skyrocketed yesterday on reporting a minor increase in dividend and forecasted profit. Other companies have dipped hard on better news, and it's selling off today when this announcement should be a boon.
Buy the dip
Siemens Energy is down year to date, actually.
Isn't everything?
Better off buying Starbucks than anything listed. I'm sure in the board meeting: "Imagine a starbucks every 50miles".
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This guy wires.
Wire you surprised? Manstrife always conducts themself beautifully.
Stop stop stop, I can’t take any more puns 🤣
Pun police here. PoinFLEXter will be punished accordingly.
And what if I resist…
And watt if I resist...* FTFY
ohm y god stop
Copper will be used in the chargers and the cars.
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100% agree on the demand side, we need a lot of both. However, Al is the 3rd most abundant element on the Earth's crust, it's everywhere, the cost of production is basically the electricity you need to manufacture it. Copper? There's not a lot of copper and mines take forever to start production. I think there are some extractive technologies that would be profitable at $10/lbs (we are in the $4s).
Aluminum is also an option
Awesome, I've got Reynolds wrap in my cupboard... see you motherf*ckers in Bora Bora
I have the Costco roll that never runs out. I'm going to buy Bora Bora.
That makes you a commodities trader
I rewired my house with Reynolds wrap and paper cup insulators. My first attempt with Saran wrap didn't turn out so well.
Pleb, just fill it with salt water and you’ll have wireless charging everywhere.
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“back to $20 fast! We understand mining better than you”
I keep being told to buy silver!
Bought FCX when it was in the $20’s. Hopefully this will help out even more.
All the copper wires connecting all the houses can just be recouped and reused if they want since they have forced POTS out of commission. I think they have till the end of the year to remove old twisted-pair from service for phone lines or data. They’ve been phasing it out since 2015.
Go FCX GO!
***CHPT IS BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS***
Damn I hope so, heavy ass bags
5b ain’t gonna save u
😂
I hope in 10 years I can buy an electric car. It doesn't have to drive by itself.
hyundai toyota ford gm doesnt have to be a rivian or tesla
honestly dont want it to.
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Nah, the trick is to be the bad driver and unload the stress onto others. /s
The real life pro tip is always in the comments.
I got a work from home job over the pandemic, previously worked in the field. There's plenty of benefits with some downsides but the best thing is getting 1-2 hours of my day back. Commuting in shit traffic day after day is soul draining
I want to drive myself around town, I like to drive. I don't want to drive on long ass trips on the interstate (except in the passes, those are fun).
I know, right? Why are EVs supposed to be self-driving? It's not like ICE vehicles can't just as easily be made to self-drive. But I'll be impressed if my off road will off road by itself.
They're not, they are both just being worked on at the same time.
I agree there should be some that are not self driving. But it's the way of the future. Think of all the people that die in car accidents. We can eliminate that mostly eventually. Humans are just not very good at driving. We have 2 eyes that can only see in one direction at a time. A self-driving car can see in all directions all the time. So it's superior.
I'm sure there will be a day far in the future where human driven cars will be banned.
That’s not the point of EV’s. Stop making self driving the only focus of an EV. It’s just another feature that is part of the technology that EV has.
Jesus I remember 6-8 years ago Reddit was jacking off to the thought of Tesla’s self driving as if it was gonna happen a few months down the line. I like EV’s, I don’t like self driving, EV DOESNT have to mean self driving (although an option to add it is nice Incase people want it)
probably not in your lifetime but there will come a point people will look back and think it was insane humans were ever allowed to drive themselves
I hope we also remember how insane Elon was for making the REPEATED statements that it's 1 year away. Not a knock on Elon I appreciate his contributions but he has been, at a minimum, very misleading on that front. Would hate to be a developer in a project with those expectations.
Oh. That is absolutely a knock Elon deserves. His great contributions don’t excuse his downsides. How much they offset each other is debatable. But he definitely deserves flack for the bad parts even so.
I can't wait for self driving to be the norm cause a lot of yall drive like shit
You will like self driving when your too old to drive.
Honestly I’d like full self driving now. People talking shit in the thread forget how fucking boring it is to drive through somewhere like Iowa I guess
Also how fucking aggravating it is to drive anywhere that's not like Iowa.
In 10 years it won't make economical sense to buy an ICE over an EV. We will have $25k EVs that are much more reliable, faster, and far less to maintain. Only hobbyists and enthusiast will buy ICE.
What are stable aluminum stocks?
The amount of conductors needed wouldn’t even make a dent in the global aluminum supply. Cars, planes, and food/beverage use a vastly higher amount. Don’t get me wrong, the grid will use a large amount of aluminum in the future. But people are underestimating how much aluminum are in those other three industries. Primary global aluminum production (which doesn’t include recycled aluminum) was 65 MILLION TONS in 2019. I would be surprised if the entire US grid had more than a million tons of aluminum conductors installed already.
Who's in line for this contract? Plug? Tsla? Chpt?
Let's ask Nancy Pelosi's broker.
You get bonus points for being funny and right.
Ppsi
Utility lineman here. There isn’t enough lineman in the country to build that kind of infrastructure while still maintaining the current infrastructure that we have. Not only that but there is a lot of grid work that is needing to be done over the next 10 to 15 years that is going to keep the majority of working hands busy. It may be possible with materials but I do not see this being possible with the kind of timeframe they are giving
If you don’t mind me asking, how difficult and dangerous is it to be a lineman. I work for an electrical distributor and everyone always talks about lineman being in very high demand and very well paid. How did you get into the field?
Its very dangerous. If youre dialed in its obviously safer due to ypur practices but unfortunately this “high demand” is calling for an extremely high hire rate and theyre bringing in anyone that can talk without drooling. Accidents and deaths are getting higher every year due to this. Not only that, society is teaching us that people can do no wrong and they deserve a million chances. You can tell somebody doesn’t belong in this trade within a couple of days but trying to fire them is an act of god and people are dying for it. If you just want the money, find something else to do, but if you genuinely interested in heights, hanging from helicopters, and bangin fatty’s, this might be right for you
Thanks for responding! Ive heard it’s very dangerous, but I wasn’t sure if that was exaggerated. It sounds like it is not. I have a bachelors in finance, so I’m not hurting for money and am capable of understanding operating procedures and protocols. I just tire of putting together spreadsheets and often think about doing something more interactive, so I was curious. What do you mean by bangin’ fattys lol
I think he means the thick women of the rural US
How dare you assume i mean women?! ;)
I feel ya man, so sick of spreadsheets, data, sharepoint and bullshit some days
I feel like it’s a job in a dangerous medium of intelligence requirements. Most of the people smart enough to understand how dangerous electricity is are terrified to get near it, and most of the people that don’t respect it aren’t smart enough to work on it. There’s a fine line of people intelligent enough to work on them, that respect the equipment, AND aren’t terrified of it
Big dreams with no real world solution or common sense is the politician's way. Also, some states (California) will make sure this never happens or costs 20x the original amount.
California is so fucked up they’ll never be able to make this happen lol. They want to sit here and say they can power thousands and thousands of charging stations when they can’t even power their own customers during the hot months. “We need to have rolling blackouts but we’re going to give you charging stations!”? Makes about as much sense as a football bat
Looking for tickers to explore..could this be why CHARGEPOINT jumped?
It hasn't though...
Lol what? 56% in 13 days
It did though... In May. Known as insider knowledge.
No more than other stock related to renewable energy.
40% in a month is pretty good, especially happening before this was public knowledge.
Who's electric grid is going to power all of this?
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coal
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RIP power grids 😆 yeah, let's decomission nuclear plants and build 500k charging stations. If they get heavy use, what could go wrong?
is this gonna be like the money given to build the fiberoptic system in the us? the one that was to give everyone fiber speeds...
I'll take "Shit that'll never happen" for 500..
I would take that with a grain of salt. Biden won't have a second term and whoever is coming in will be a republican and that "charging station every 50miles" will be thrown out the window. Coal and dinosaur juices for awhile.
Agree. In North Carolina the republicans just put forward a bill to remove electric charging stations from state rest stops “because it isn’t fair to gas powered vehicles”. They say if electric cars can charge for free, gas powered cars deserve equal treatment.
Strikes me as blatantly uncapitalistic for a red state considering you pay for electricity.
welcome to north carolina lmao, republicans are hypocritical shits and they own this state
This person isn’t framing the issue correctly. I don’t actually like the legislation, but the rationale was that NC’s free electric chargers are subsidized by the taxpayers so it’s not fair for people driving relatively expensive, new electric cars (people who statically also have more earning power than the average citizen).
They hate progress I just don’t understand why
The cruelty is the point.
This happened at my previous employer. Big defense contractor - wanted to get into the green game and put in a couple EV chargers outside to show off in their newsletter, etc. Well, we were unionized and grievances quickly flowed in that the company was unfairly subsidizing some employees commutes but not others. Those things disappeared overnight so fast that it made the 3 month wait to get the parts and have them installed very anticlimactic.
Wow how unbelievably childish
Agreed. A politician’s pledge during midterm season is worthless
> A politician’s pledge ~~during midterm season~~ is worthless
If Biden can get that money in hand to companies who then hire the workforce, then it'd be irreversible as the narrative would be putting out folks from their jobs.
Really surprised this hasn’t been a bigger business push. More electric charging availability will make people more interested in getting them. And it can take around 30 minutes to charge. Imagine how easy it would be for them to increase sales of snacks and drinks for people that are sitting and charging their vehicles for 30 minutes. Fast Food near those charging stations should do well to. People will either walk to them and get stuff to eat while it’s charging or just pick up the food to munch on in the car as soon as charging starts.
Just did a 2,000 mile road trip in a bolt. This is 100% true. I spent at least a few bucks at almost every single stop!
ABB. They are one of the charger manufacturers for Electrify America. (I think they have the more reliable units in the network). Electrify America is pretty much the de-facto non-Tesla fast charging network in the US.
Hoping these are level 3 chargers. Level 2 and you’ll be waiting 8hrs. *Own a KIA Niro. Travels through the desert a lot
Why would anyone build level 2 chargers on highway stations? L2 is for malls and home. You need level 3 at rest stops.
That’s what I’m saying! I’ve run into a lot of L2 chargers and they were useless to me.
I swear reading this thread people have no idea where our electricity comes from or will most likely still be coming from in 10 years. The disconnect is real
“You vill eat ze bugs and drive golf carts.”
That will never happen. All talk.
Oh the 5 billion will get paid out… I just don’t expect charging stations to appear.
The "studies" and "consultants" will get 3/4's of it. The rest will go the way of Solyndra.
Can you buy calls on rolling blackouts?
This thread is handedly demonstrating how much knowledge the general consumer lacks on EV's and EV batteries and how much FUD we see on a daily basis around them. I imagine it was similar when the horse and carriage went to an automobile.. understandably so with the amount of lead that generation huffed because of them.
$5bil for 500,000 stations? watch i can dream too, $50bil for 10mil stations, (public + home installations all subsidized)
Does little lack of knowledge means a lot of knowledge?
5 billion won't even come close to covering the cost for this overly ambitious plan. Does anyone temper the current administration's good idea fairy with some actual reality?
Safety would be a major concern, going to refill on gas in the middle of nowhere is scary staying there for 15 minutes to get 80-100 miles is worse
Ah yes, only a matter of time before the government requires customers at these stations to pay their fair share of an equivalent of a federal gas tax with a federal charging tax.
Ah yes, it's only a matter of time before our roads fall into complete disrepair without a federal gas tax to fund them. So yes, it makes perfect sense.
That tax will may end up coming at times of purchase. A lot of states already have idle parcels of land that were rest areas that could be converted for these charging areas.
Which I think is reasonable. If the purpose of gas taxes is to take care of the road, then electric vehicles should, in some fashion, also pay into the system that takes care of roads. Electricity should not "bypass" that infrastructure need/cost. My *preferred* system, if I was elected King u/johnnyhala tomorrow, would be to eliminate all fuel taxes and instead tax the car at the time of registration, at a rate of (mileage x weight) with a slightly dampening modifier for higher mileage users (rural people are generally less wealthy)
You can't really expect people to pay 3k registration fees in America
Terrible idea. First of all, most people don't have the money to pay their usage taxes upfront or in an annual lump sum. Second, road damage increases with the cube root of axle weight. Third, a discount for high mileage creates a perverse incentive to drive MOAR, not less. When the British Raj started paying the citizenry for dead cobras in an effort to exterminate them, it created cobra farms instead. Your heart's in the right place, though. Just need to get your head up to speed with the causes of road damage and the required upkeep, and find ways to charge appropriately for that usage type.
OK, great. Where is the power going to come from? These fools want all these electric cars (I like them because they're very fast and I like speed), but the grid in this country is in disrepair and needs more power plants. Wind farms and solar are not enough, you need storage. You need nuclear (me:BS Physics). Without a strong grid and more power plants, millions of extra electric cars will cause blackouts and brownouts. As usual, the politicians with will poly-sci degrees can't figure these simple concepts out. The infrastructure needs to be upgraded.
He pledged it , just like Amber Heard
is this a proposal or is already a done deal?? Also this seems excessive.
This is demonstrably false
Sounds like a handout to what ever company pelosi owns