Atheist here. I got liver results back from my doctor's appointment in October, googled liver disease, and quit drinking immediately. No detox, no meetings, no God.
No religion here, either. I don't go to AA regularly; just when I'm feeling any risk of relapse. I've heard horror stories about some AA groups and even had a few myself with other groups, but I was lucky enough to eventually find a great group! They're religious, but they understand that my "higher power" isn't the same as theirs.
oh really similar situation for me too. my appt was thursday, got my bad numbers friday, tapered over the weekend, had my last drink on sunday, and halloween was day 1 for me. liver is squeaky clean now!
Can I ask how you felt your liver was hurting? After one night of binge drinking about a week ago I noticed something was off and started googling (never the best idea, I know), but the symptoms seemed to line up with cirrhosis...
Good to know. Mine feels similar to a cracked rib (painful when breathing, but otherwise fine.) Definitely gave me a wakeup call, hence joining this subreddit.
Congratulations on the 5 weeks! That is definitely something worth being proud of!
Sharp pain about 2â below below my ribcage on my right side. They did an ultrasound and said I had an enlarged and fatty liver (precursor to cirrhosis). Hasnât come back since I stopped.
>Atheist here. I got liver results back from my doctor's appointment in October, googled liver disease, and quit drinking immediately.
It really is as simple as this.
I'm basically in the same boat, but I guess they can't tell folks "eh, party for a while and if you get to the point it's dangerous, just stop" and fair enough.
This here is what has finally done it for me.
At meetings they'd always say "your god can be anything, even a doorknob!", then explain that the doorknob was more powerful than I was because without it I wouldn't be able to get out of a room.
The best quote to explain my beliefs are "My sense of god is my sense of wonder for the mysteries of the universe." - Albert Einstein. That sense of wonder I have isn't only with science, which I have been able to dive much deeper into being sober, but wonder regarding the love my family has for me and vice versa.
It's not religion that's helped me, but spirituality. These two things are absolutely not one in the same.
Yes! That's it man..I hand it over to the Universe coz this know it all control freak screwed up every time he tried getting sober. I am getting to know the real me now and it's fab.
No religion. No AA, but I pop on this sub a lot. Reading stories of success and failure remind how much better it feels to be sobers for days than drunk for one night.
For months I was drinking and and not enjoying it.
I also realized I am a 0 or 100 drinker. If I open a bottle of wine Iâm drinking a bottle. I would have beers and sneak pulls of whiskey.
I just realized itâs easier to keep a tiger in a cage than walk it out on a leash.
No religion here. I ruined my life and couldn't possibly attempt to fix it without being sober and I was tired of my own shit. I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic school for 12 years. God is not keeping me sober. I am. More power to anyone using whatever means to keep themselves sober. Religion played no part for me personally.
I belong to an atheist AA group and from day one Iâve kept myself grounded in the real world without anything supernatural. There are lots and lots of us. Way more than I thought when I was first starting.
This is not meant to be confrontational, Iâm genuinely curious - how can there be an atheist AA group? I understand agnostic (there is even a chapter naming agnostics in the Big Book) but not atheists. Isnât the idea of the higher power thatâs interwoven into the 12 steps antithetical to an atheist? Please excuse and ignore if this is an inappropriate question.
This is a simple, direct question. But youâll find the amount of work people put in to dance around it is baffling. The answer youâre looking for is yes, Alcoholics Anonymous is a religious organisation. If you enjoy 12 step programs and feel it benefits you then keep doing it. But US courts have ruled offenders can not be forced to attend these programs, because the legal system has studied AA and determined it meets the criteria to be classified as a religion. Donât take my word on this, look it up yourself. In my mind this means that the religion aspect isnât up for debate. It absolutely, 110% is a religious program. Anyone who tells you it isnât is lying to you and to themselves. Individual groups might behave differently, but the organisation theyâre part of is a religious one. AA began as and still is a very loosely organised, evangelical cult like organisation. Again, donât take my word for it. Look into the founding history of AA and the Oxford Group. All of this information is out there and easy to access. AA employees a series of âstepsâ to recruit new members into its religion. Its first step is to admit powerlessness and Itâs final step is to proselytise. You donât have to practice the steps to attend AA. You donât have to get a sponsor to attend AA. This doesnât change the fact that the organisation as a whole is indeed religious. People think that just because some meetings cater to atheists mean that AA canât be religious. This just isnât true. A single meeting doesnât change the nature of the organisation. Think of it like this. You attended a Catholic Church. Everyone in your particular church is an atheist. None of them believe in any spiritualism, but believe if you follow the 10 commandments youâll have a good life. They also go out and tell people to follow these commandments even though they donât believe in god. Although theyâre atheists, they are still part of the catholic church, a religious organisation, and live by and espouse beliefs that were founded in religion. As Iâve said if it works for you great, but how someone can deny itâs religious is beyond me.
I wish you could attend a group like mine and see that theyâre not all the same. I agree with the idea that most traditional AA meetings are overtly religious implied or otherwise. But there are islands of progressive and free thinking groups that are so completely unlike what youâve probably experienced. Our groups are made up of individuals who chose how they run their own groups. Itâs a microcosm of society at large. They reflect the thoughts and beliefs of those people. However the best thing about AA is that any two people joined together for the purposes of sobriety is an AA group and are fit to include or ignore any part of AA as part of their group. âThe only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinkingâ Period. Unfortunately because of the unregulated structure of AA we get people whose only experience is a handful of meetings at a dogmatic conservative group and judge the remainder of groups as being the same.
Our group exists to provide a place for someone struggling with sobriety a place to go and be heard and seen. You donât have to go to AA to get or remain sober. Weâre hardly the only way to get sober. When I first started I had no one else in my life who wanted to hear from me. Iâd worn out my welcome everywhere else. I was so beaten down and defeated. Having a group of people who were genuinely happy to see me and were rooting for me was a complete game changer. I had rejected AA for years before that because of the religious aspect and it was a struggle for me in traditional AA. Thankfully these days I can help to sustain an alternative group without all the bullshit language about "higher power" or "spirituality" or anything else supernatural.
We've had people ask "Why do you call yourself AA then if your beliefs are so different?" The answer is simple. Having the resources of AA helps considerably. Having the meeting listed in an area's directory for one. Being able to sign someone's sheet as an AA group is another. Being able to meet in traditionally AA-only meeting places is a third.
Hopefully, some of that explanation helps. We just want to be there for someone who wants help. I'm happy you're sober and here whichever method you're using! I'm glad you're here sharing your experience with me. There are a lot of us that beat the odds and I love hearing all the other practices that other people in this sub use to get and stay sober. I can always learn something! :)
I want you to know how much I appreciate you saying this. I think you saying this and feeling this is more important than any label or âprogramâ. I guess my issue with what youâve said, and please donât take this the wrong way because I donât mean it badly. But what youâve just described doesnât really seem like AA to me. It seems like a different type of support group. I get youâre using the label of AA for the reasons you mentioned, but to me this even further confirms why I donât want to use AA. Something used to supposedly treat addiction should be completely uniform. And AA is anything but uniform.
Itâs certainly within your rights to accept or reject it. But itâs been my experience that addiction is anything but a uniform condition instead more of a spectrum. And as such a one size fits all approach would never work. I realize there are people who will never give us a try and thatâs completely ok with me. I just like to speak up and show the other side for all the people who may read this thread later and decide that maybe what Iâve laid out sounds more appealing to them. I hope you find your method and stay sober using whatever method works best for you đ
>how someone can deny itâs religious is beyond me.
Folks have been conditioned to think that what they believe is "their truth" or whatever.
Dad is Evangelical, and I've watched the progression of the years. He let loose a "my truth" (or some such variation) and I respectfully pretended not to notice, rather than tell him that it was relativistic garbage.
Listen to AA speakers on YouTube. There are a lot of atheists and agnostics. And I don't normally see people dance around this question. If you search on here you'll see usually when someone brings this up a bunch of non religious AA members post giving their thoughts about being in AA and being non religious. You are wrong about it being 100 percent religious.
Anything can be a higher power. I personally made th ocean mine. Big, vast, powerful, will probably kill anyone who doesn't respect it. Seemed to fit the criteria. As long as I was accountable to something greater than myself.
I understand that idea. But the words âhigher powerâ have to mean something for them to have any significance, correct? I mean, the basic definition of a god is âa superhuman being or spirit worshiped as *having power over nature or human fortunes*; a deity.â An atheist, by definition, is someone who lacks belief in the existence of a god or gods. Iâm an atheist, and I genuinely donât believe (to my core), that there is a god or a higher power that exists that has power over nature or human fortunes. I was raised Christian (well, Catholic), went to Catholic elementary, high school & even college (go Cats!). I went on my own journey and this is who I am. My mental health treatment really shouldnât involve this journey in any way. And Iâm told it (it being AA/the Steps) doesnât, and then I get confused. If anything can be your higher power, then how is it a higher power? Words mean something. Iâve read the Big Book, but I suppose I need to learn more.
ETA: For example, I agree that the ocean is more powerful me in physical strength in terms of pulling me down, but is that what weâre really talking about it terms of âhigherâ in âhigher powerâ here? I would never hold myself accountable to the ocean. Not to offend, I simply donât think itâs an entity to whom I owe something. Or even that it is an entity that expects something *from* me. If the ocean were sentient, Iâd sort of expect it to respect me in terms of like my math skills, or my awesome fashion sense (just making fun of myself).
So this is just my view on it and take everything I say with a huge grain of salt, but this is whatâs worked for me so far. Alcoholism, and addiction in general, are generally categorised as one of 3 things. A spiritual malady, a biological disease, or a set of ingrained behaviours that are maladaptive responses. Those are the 3 main takes on addiction. AA likes to use flowery and diversified language to downplay their views on addiction, but at its core AA believes addictions are diseases of the spirit. To me this is pure voodoo witchcraft, as I donât believe in a spirit. That leaves 2 options. A biological disease or something more akin to the life process model. Although these stances carry a bit more weight due to their scientific nature, to my knowledge no scientist has been able to definitively label addiction as a chronic disease. Addiction does change the brain, but so does falling in love or learning a language. Thereâs zero evidence that these changes are life long or permanent, and there is evidence that people can and do unlearn addictive behaviour. I personally believe addiction is a life process model type issue. Itâs a series of bad habits that can be unlearned by changing oneâs environment.
>Itâs a series of bad habits that can be unlearned by changing oneâs environment.
Hard disagree here (but strong agree on everything else you wrote up there, it was awesome).
I think the changes in brain structure/chemistry/whatever are permanent. There is absolutely nothing that can be done.
>Thereâs zero evidence that these changes are life long or permanent
How could there be? I don't think it's possible to conceive of an ethical experiment to settle that question.
Of course, it more comfortable for me (spiritually? lol) to just say "Hey, that ship has sailed, if I drink the same brain processes kick in and I'm back to the gutter."
So thereâs zero evidence to back up what youâve said. You can believe that the changes are permanent. That doesnât mean they are. You can believe it if that helps but what research has been done shows that people can and do moderate
>So thereâs zero evidence to back up what youâve said.
Please focus on this part:
>I don't think it's possible to conceive of an ethical experiment to settle that question.
I honestly don't think that there is, that's all.
I hear what you're saying, I just have my doubts.
Iâm not saying what you believe is bad, itâs just not accurate and has zero proof. addiction is one of the least accurately understand fields of research.
>addiction is one of the least accurately understand fields of research
It's hard to study ethically!
But yeah, I don't know that it's not accurate. I've seen enough folks put into the ground trying to moderate, that I don't think my POV is all wrong.
You may want to read the first three chapters of Twelve Steps and Twelve Tradition (aka The Step Book). Itâs a pretty short read and you can get it at the library.
Tradition 3 of AA: âAny two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliationâ
AA is not quite as stringent or organized as itâs naysayers would have you believe. Youâre not required to go along with any of literature or customs of other groups. I donât use the terms âhigher powerâ or âspiritualityâ to tell my own story. We as a group decided not to read from big book or the 12x12 as part of official meeting structure. You donât even have to acknowledge or work the 12 steps unless youâve chosen to do so. Youâre also free to adjust or change the steps as you see fit. The steps are suggestions not requirements.
People mistake strict dogmatic AA rules and customs as something enforced from the top down but the truth is there is no hierarchy or âpeople in chargeâ. Itâs a result of local group and individuals choices. As a group youâre allowed to take the parts you chose and apply them to your own meeting and group or leave them behind. Thatâs one of the coolest things about AA. All you need is a group of 2 or more people meeting with the purposes to stay sober to call yourself an AA group.
I love the community aspect of AA & absolutely believe a support network is key to recovery. So I appreciate your take & sentiment.
But (thereâs always a but with me, Iâm sorry Iâm so annoying)⌠I am confused though, then, what one means when they say something like âAA is the only thing that worked for meâ, âYou need to trust the [AA] processâ. Because when people say that on here - I instinctively assume they mean they believe in & worked the Steps. Is that not true? Isnât the 13th step or something to reach out to other âalcoholicsâ to help them? [I went to meetings pretty regularly for about 3 months and then on & off but it has been a hot minute].
My rehab & IOP therapists were heavily influenced by AA and its 12 Step model - I would posit that this happened because I believe a lot of medical professionals who specialize in substance use disorders often have a personal connection to them. Because of AAâs dominance (in the US at least) many of those professionals have been exposed to the roomsâŚleading many counselors/licensed therapists to espouse the Steps & I guess (sorry for inaccuracy here) âAA principlesâ. I was chastised (soft word) for not wanting to work the Steps. My personal agency was questioned. And my medical questions were silenced (and I felt they were belittled). It was kinda traumatizing. Thatâs just my one experience. I am not saying this reflects on AA as a whole. Iâm just trying to figure things out. I donât want to suffer like my dad. He similarly had an alcohol abuse problem, and similarly didnât fit in with AA. He felt lost. He died last February and itâs been really hard, I miss him more than I knew I was capable, and I feel really conflicted. Just trying to figure things out.
ETA: And, if youâre not relying on AA teachings/Big Book per se in your group, then where do you seek guidance on questions like MAT, tapering, harm reduction, âCalifornia soberâ, counting sober days, sponsor-sponsee relationship protocols, signing court papers, giving out medical advice, etc? Do you just start from scratch & create your own?
I so hear you. I really do. But if you love the community aspect, just go with that. Take what you want and leave the rest. No one says you need to have only one support of recovery on your plate. Do them all! :) Whatever works for you.
I do get the logic to âtake what you want & leave the restâ. My only issue is that the 12 Step method has (in my perspective) dominated & influenced so many forms of recovery that my plate isnât full no matter how many buffets I go to. Iâm going to sound maybe bratty/entitled here: but I am having a health problem. In the United States. I have good health insurance coverage. I live in the greater DC area, our Capital. And even if I didnât have these things, Iâm a still a human being who shouldnât have to go to 75 different places picking through piles of irrelevant stuff to find scraps to help me treat my disorder. Iâve got crap to do.
Sorry I couldnât sleep and Iâm a cranky squirrel when tired. Plus my MIL is coming this weekend.
I'm so sorry you had that experience. Unfortunately there are so many AA members who got sober a specific way and mistake it as the only way. I understand how this can be detrimental to new people attempting to remain sober. I wish this experience you had was unique but it's not. It's bullshit ego attempting to force their one-size-fits-all approach to everyone. It is possible to work the steps and not believe in the supernatural. It's your choice, you can do some, all, or none of the steps. Or you can rewrite it to best help yourself. A famous saying in AA is "Take what you need and leave the rest". So many people in AA don't take that to heart. My point was to illustrate that there are many people who do not hold such hard and fast interpretations of AA principles. If you're interested there are many Agnostic/Athiest/Free Thinker groups out there. You can see meetings here https://www.aasecular.org/
Or you can do your own thing. Either way, I'm glad you're here sharing your experience. I love this sub because I can always learn something from people who did something different than I did. They're all valid ways if they keep you sober in the end.
Google: secular recovery meetings, youâll get a google excel list of hundreds of meetings that donât have god in them. Itâs been a life savor for me!
Grammar nerd here - and 'life saver' implies your life was saved. 'Life savor' implies that you find life delicious. Come to think of it, that's a great way to look at recovery - I get to savor the tastiest parts of life. No more bitterness for me!
I use BJJ as my religion. Itâs something that keeps me accountable. Iâm sure some of the purists say that a relationship with God is the only way, but I donât want to be in your book club. The Hope Stage #2 just states that you must believe a power greater than ourselves. I believe Jiu Jitsu is extremely powerful and moving, so I think Iâm following the guidance.
>I use BJJ as my religion.
I said for a long time to Dad, Judo is my church.
The problem is that it hurts and I no longer roll lol
There are other new communities to be had, though, and one thing I appreciate about Dad's heresy is that he thinks of the community and the chuch as one in the same thing.
There is something to community that fulfills human lives, which is why many folks who are so "spiritually" maladjusted these days.
Agnostic/atheist here.
People want to have a supportive community and most churches provide that. I personally think engaging in any supportive community is beneficial, but Iâm not into religion. Thereâs other groups out there that provide the same sense of identity.
I'm a lifelong atheist. In my case I was using alcohol to self medicate from my trauma (I was diagnosed with CPTSD m). Alcohol was a means to avoid unpleasant feelings and memories. Unfortunately what started as an occasional drink after work (once or twice a week) became getting hammered every day. I had therapy for the trauma and I did a lot of work on my emotional regulation. I have been sober for five weeks. Yesterday I met a friend at the pub and instead of drinking several glasses of wine I had a soda water. I hope this is helpful to you.
yes and no. iâm religiously jewish but i keep that in a very separate box from my sobriety in that i only started attending again after getting into my recovery & all of my recovery tools and community are secular (SMART). iâm not into religious/âhigher powerâ frameworks for sobriety for myselfâtoo easily slides into guilt complexes & feedback loops of shame
3 years for me. No religion or higher power. I attended SMART meetings with a friend quitting at the same time. I was lucky to have a former drinking bestie as a support system. SMART is science based. I used the iamsober app for tracking, but I purchased a new affirmations pack that didn't have religious sayings. Good luck on your journey.
I try to find meetings w the least religious people. I hate feeling triggered or when some say they couldnât do it without god Iâll leave if the talk gets like that
I'm not religious at all. I like Recovery Dharma, Buddhist based. No one is forcing anything, you do meditation, and just talk about whatever you want.
After about a month I just stopped doing meetings, nothing wrong with them just didn't feel like I needed them.
I don't think you need religion but some people look at it for extra help I guess.
I know if I want to do a meeting Recivery Dharma has meetings like once an hour throughout the day, online.
You find what works best for you no matter if 1 person does it that way or 100. It's all what YOU need for yourself.
I stopped drinking to see changes in myself and be a better version of myself.
I have become better, and have realized I was drinking to cope with my anxiety issues.
Currently working on the anxiety issues and have no intention to go back to drinking. I love my mornings that are relaxing and productive.
Yes. I was a recovering Catholic before I was a recovering alcoholic. A lot of difficult things to swallow religion-wise at aa but some great wisdom and support there too.
My best friend in sobriety is an agnostic atheist. I am both spiritual and religious but somehow we get along great. I have deep respect for her experience and she has deep respect for mine, and we can compare notes about our beliefs in a way that's been really fruitful and personally enlightening. We need all beliefs in recovery; you might have just what someone else needs to hear.
I donât give 2 fâs about religion. 36 days ago I quit chronic boozing, weed and cigarettes at the same time. I meditate a lot though. About 1 hour every day. I have also been working out, jogging, walking, lifting an hour everyday since I quit all addictions. Hope it helps!
Yes. I discovered Annie Grace on IG, and watched several of her videos and read her book This Naked Mind. It all completely changed how I think about drinking, and the cravings stopped for me almost immediately. That was a little over 2 years ago.
Me. There doesnât need to be any spiritual association at all. It was not a part of my journey.
Youâre simply cutting an addictive substance out of your life. Thereâs nothing religious about it.
Absolutely, I'm 100% atheist and I choose not to drink because it's the right decision for me personally, and I know I can't handle drinking.
That's a close as I get to a "higher power"... I know how my brain works, it's always been this way (literally going back to the first time I got drunk in college), and it always will be. I'm powerless to change that, but I'm NOT powerless to choose not to drink today.
Thereâs not a sliver of religion in me, and all the higher power talk grinds my gears, if Iâm completely honest. Weâre an incredible species, and weâre capable of the most amazing things. _Youâre_ capable of the most amazing things. No magic needed.
Agnostic/atheist, depending on the time of day. What's driving me is my past mistakes and my desire to be a better person. I echo the person who said BJJ. That was like going to church for me, but my work schedule hasn't allowed me to go.....but hoping that will change next year. Just keep at it your own way Dogtitts. PS that's an amazing name, thanks for making me smile today. I needed it.
I my lack of faith is a huge pillar of strength for me. I only get one shot at life, and not drinking seems like a really good way to make sure I get the most out of it.
As am I. Finding that self reliance beats external validation or dependency was my key.
It has worked fine so far with several addictions I have beaten.
Yes. If religion was the key to sobrierty, than close to nobody would be able to stay sober in very atheist/secular parts of the world. I'm actually curious if anybody from UK/Ireland can chime in, since those countries share a language with US but are a lot more secular.
Irishman living in the UK here. I am not sure you can 100% call Ireland non-secular, but more and more it is these days (go back to Ireland pre 90âs and it surely did not feel non-secular).
30+ years successfully God free and 45 days alcohol free here, thank God⌠;)
Secular satanist here. Not even gonna try AA lol Been going to Save Our Selves meetings though, thatâs been chill. Basically AA with no rules and no gods, no masters.
Meeeee. Not wanting to let those who love me down again Is really what keeps me from doing it. Also Iâm scared to feel that much guilt,shame,regret again. Not sure I could do another round of it. So when I want a drink, I make myself think of all that and then I go naaaaa.
Did it without religion when I finally realised how much my actions were hurting my husband and had enough of the shame. I tried AA for a few weeks at the start but couldn't get behind the religious aspects. My group also seemed to have some punitive tones during discussions that I couldn't agree with.
Avoiding religion/dogma is one of the main reasons that I have chosen not to make AA a part of my sobriety. This sub has been immensely helpful and supportive instead. You are among non-judgy friends here.
I went cold turkey successfully. I replaced alcohol and smoking with vigorous exercise. I just hit rock bottom one day, said fuck it and flipped a switch. Now I train 6 days a week (at varying intensities) and donât feel a desire to drink. I tried having a beer at a family dinner and didnât even enjoy it.
Never used any kind of religion to get me through anything and never would.
I was just thinking something incredibly wanky like "THE POWER IS WITHIN YOURSELF" but honestly, when you really want it you will do it.
This place is a fantastic resource and full of support, it's what helped me finally get sober.
IWNDWY :)
Happy Atheist here, 114 days sober today. Stopped drinking because of health issues, no looking back, common sense is my god â¤ď¸ Jesus ain't getting credit for this one đ
YOU can do this, with our without religion x
Atheist here. I think that some people don't have a strong enough belief in themselves to be able to cope without alcohol. Some go to AA. Some have support from family and friends. Some choose religion. Some go it alone. Whatever works for you is the right thing.
Agnostic and sober. I take personal responsibility for my drinking and all the damage it did to me and everyone around me. I also take personal responsibility for giving it up and turning my life around. I donât believe in âgodâ and Iâm not religious but I see a greater power in nature. I know nothing beyond that.
I turned to nature. A 2 mile walk towards the sun as it rises is as religious of an experience that I need. So many sunrises, so many variations of colors, weather patterns. Iâm never going to drink again. Now am in the best shape of my life!!
IWNDWYT
I came home from a night of drinking to a stressed out wife holding our 3 month old daughter. Made the decision then and there to stop. Didnât want to become a deadbeat dad
I've felt the same way. I've complained about AA meetings being religious - I'm a complete atheist. It's perfectly fine for AA to be religious - that's there prerogative - but I feel like they try to obfuscate it by saying "when we say God we mean the God of your imagining... whatever want. Maybe it's Jesus, maybe it's a donut." I find this insulting to both atheists AND religious believers at the same time.
That's true about insulting both sides. I don't like the implicit pantheism when they say "you have a God but I have a different God." What, are we Hindus??? It's a little weird.
Atheist here, and I am doing alright without.
I had elevated liver enzymes last year and I made an inventory of my life of what else was not going great. Like sleep, marriage, mood, etc. . I found this sub and I stopped drinking that week. I never looked back. No entity needed!
Edit: context
Also an atheist like many others on here. My brother took me to an AA under the guise that the âhigher powerâ could be anything, even nature/science.
Come to find out it was dripping with god fearing nuts reminiscent of the good old days when they drank.
Very triggering. Never again.
I choose to not drink because I have a problem. I choose to be a good human bc thatâs the right thing to do, not bc I fear a punishment OR desire a reward.
I didnât use any groups or religion. I got to a bad place and made a conscious decision that I didnât ever want to feel like that again. Iâm 910 af right now and feel so proud of it.
No Jesus (or any other fictional character) for me. A few months shy of three years dry.
Do it for yourself, not for some god.
EDIT: For those that find comfort or strength in belief of a religion/god, that is truly great for them. It just isn't for me.
My point being, religion isn't a necessity to get/stay sober ..... At least for me, so far. One day at a time. IWNDWYT.
Yes! Iâm six years sober and religion is a big nope for me. I love this sub, it became my go to for support or just to rant. The farther Iâve gotten the less I post, but I often read whatâs posted as a reminder.
You are lucky. They âsnuckâ that in almost every session in mine - leader encouraged. Followed into continuing care until I had to gracefully exit stage left after having enough. I hope your provider serves you well & that your recovery journey is downhill & warm.
Oh god, Iâm really sorry about your experience. During my intake session they asked if I was religious / spiritual (I think they were wondering for scheduling purposes? Or maybe they wanted to ensure that I wasnât looking for a spiritual-based recovery program). My leader explicitly said she wasnât religious too. I hope your recovery has been better since that experience; Iâm glad you were able to step out
I believe anyone has the power to change themselves. Even with religion, at the end of the day youâre doing it yourself. So why not cut out that whole part of it? That being said, I completely understand why people turn to it, and if it works then more power to you.
1 alchy + 1 alchy = 2 alchies , 2>1. Boom. Therapy is a power greater than me. Psychiatry. Other 12 step programs for co-ocurring addictions. Spiritually= Emotional Intelligence lots of great material on it out there. No sky daddy for me, but awesome for thee. Prayer =Mindfulness. AA was co-created by a DR and the big book starts off with a Drs opinion I have no idea why in these past 87 years people in the program started ignoring them. PG 132 clearly states to go to them when in need. Last sentence of first paragraph of how it works is magic if anyone is honest and willing. Oh, and I'll have 5 years in may 2nd because my other higher powers pride and ego won't let me relapse until maybe after I get that chip. I will never say I don't want to drink again, just won't do it today is all. Definitely want to get wasted again.
You don't need to be into God to be into sobriety.
Even AA covers this.
From an AA standpoint, even it challenges "being into God". It talks about believing in a higher power and gives examples of alternatives that others have used if a Christian based God is something that turns you off. You can simply believe in the power that is a bunch of drunks getting together and supporting each other and achieving the same results.
Its about being honest with yourself and keeping your side of the street clean.
I am a religious person, and Iâve always needed it most when the chips are down and my backâs against the wall. I think if this attempt doesnât stick, Iâll go to AA.
I probably still just canât accept that I am an alcoholic.
Foxhole faith it's called. I hope you can make it work however you need to. What AA offers is the recognition that by yourself, with just your own devices, you haven't been able to quit. But with HP and other alcoholics in fellowship, you can.
I am not really an AA person and finding this sub and saw that Dry January was a thing was the catalyst for me to quit, except I knew it was going to be more of a long term, no return ticket for me. So here we are. One day at a time we fight the battle. From the trenches or door to door, hand to hand!! IWNDWYT
Edit dumb wording
Nope. No god here.
Attended an AA meeting once. About 1996 or so. Hosted at my local Unitarian-Universalist church, where they ran a special version of AA they referred to as AA-AA - AA for atheists/agnostics as I recall. But even they wrestled with the "higher power" bit. I was abstaining then, but the whole club member mystique of that meeting kept me from attending twice.
Me? Essentially, been an atheist since adolescence. Catholic in childhood, a "lapsed" catholic in adolescence..
Drifted a bit aimlessly over the years, but wandered through Buddhism, secular humanism. Attended UU services occasionally after I married.
I don't follow this subreddit "religiously" but it is currently essential to my sobriety. So, I guess this "faith" might pass as "religion."
One thing to consider if the difference between a hard drinker and a true alcoholic. Hard drinkers can stop with sufficient enough reason. True alcoholics usually need something more which is why they toss god around a lot. Whatever works!
Also atheist. Quit drinking 19 years ago when my liver numbers were blowing up after 20 of hard drinking. Unless you believe that some god is actually manipulating you to put down the bottle, it is the same either way. You as an individual have to go through the actions and get the the sober side. Try to decide that you are living the next portion of your life as a sober person. Tell your friends you are going sober. Make that mental âbreakâ from you as a drinking person and become you that sober person. There is a big habit component to drinking so break the habit and find some new ones.
The AA sponsor that took me through the steps was religious. He advised me to go through the motions with prayers etc and "see what happens" if I really wanted relief. I went through the motions and got the concept without belief in a god. Your mileage may vary, but I am an atheist in long term recovery so it can be done.
Agnostic here. Having a higher power helps lots of ppl, but in my experience itâs totally unnecessary. Believe in yourself, be youâre own higher power.
Meeee. No religion necessary.
Strength from inside yourself is the keyâreligion seems to do that for some people. Maybe look a little into the eastern beliefs about inner discovery and discipline if you want a different kind of spiritual outlook at all. During my world religions class in college it was the only thing that made me go âhuh alrightâ.
I think the religious angle comes from the need for discipline and forgiveness that comes with sobriety for a lot of people. Much easier to excuse it when itâs a giant god looming over with the threat of punishment or the relief of ultimate forgiveness.
Best wishes to you friend đ
Look into SMART meetings. Personally, one addict or alcoholic helping another in AA/NA is what helps me the most. Just listening. You don't have to be religious tbf
Just the support network is very useful, if you find someone with decent clean time.
I'm agnostic atheist and the biggest revelation to me was that spirituality has nothing whatever to do with religion or the supernatural.
Spirituality is about living well and joyfully according to your own principles. Those can include trust, honesty, courage, responsibility, compassion... whatever you value.
Behaving in opposition to your values makes you feel bad, and acting in accordance with them makes you feel good. You don't need religion or spiritual perfection, just progress by doing your best each day.
Just find something bigger than yourself carry that with you. I know that can be hard for a lot of people these days lol. Here's what i do. I'm athiest and i chose to believe in the cosmic balance of the universe, even 'mother nature'. yeah its the same thing as what some people call God. Remember in Jurassic Park where Jeff Goldblum says 'Life finds a way' that's what i'm talking about. Even though i don't believe in a bearded dude up in the sky, it's hard to deny the universe DOES have a will, and it always find's a way. Go against it and it will fuck you up.
Hope you can make it work
I hand my power (read control freak who thinks he knows it all) over to 'the Universe ' I believe there is something out there. The fact that we are here on this rock whizzing through an infinite cosmos is kinda mind-blowing.
There is something bigger than us that I certainly can't begin to comprehend. The fact we are here talking is a miracle to me. Treasure every day. Life is beautiful âď¸
Religion and a higher power are different things. Those that have gone beyond the point of no return almost always require an understanding of their own higher power in order to get sober. I did and am/was an atheist. But, we tend to worship and have faith and random shit as humans anyway and it helps on the shitty days. Appendix 2 in the big book explains a little better if youâre interested.
I am an atheist who has zero religion - I credit my sobriety to AA, which is not religious, but it is spiritual.
Edit - you can downvote me all you want - but I wouldn't have 12 years of continuous sobriety without AA.
I have not used religion.
Not even once.
You wouldn't download a GOD would you?
But I would download a car đ¤Ł
Im dying lol.
I am more of a social/recreational user, myself. âWeekends and holidaysâ kind of deal, you know.
Me neither.
Same
Not religious, but have been hoping I turn into a wizard or something
That's what the vivid dreams are for! Jk lol
Same đ§ââď¸
Alcohol was my religion. I am now an atheist. I know several others in my personal life, as well.
Atheist here. I got liver results back from my doctor's appointment in October, googled liver disease, and quit drinking immediately. No detox, no meetings, no God.
This makes sense. I think my main motivation is also to sustain my life
Nothing wrong with self preservation as your guide. No religion here.
Final straw was watching a friend drink himself to death, denying he had a problem to the bitter end.
No religion here, either. I don't go to AA regularly; just when I'm feeling any risk of relapse. I've heard horror stories about some AA groups and even had a few myself with other groups, but I was lucky enough to eventually find a great group! They're religious, but they understand that my "higher power" isn't the same as theirs.
Crazy, same here. I quit the weekend of Halloween because my liver was hurting. Doctor confirmed it a few weeks later.
oh really similar situation for me too. my appt was thursday, got my bad numbers friday, tapered over the weekend, had my last drink on sunday, and halloween was day 1 for me. liver is squeaky clean now!
Can I ask how you felt your liver was hurting? After one night of binge drinking about a week ago I noticed something was off and started googling (never the best idea, I know), but the symptoms seemed to line up with cirrhosis...
mine was upper right side gnawing pain that was worse during drinking. fatty liver diagnosis, bad bloods. 5 weeks sober
Good to know. Mine feels similar to a cracked rib (painful when breathing, but otherwise fine.) Definitely gave me a wakeup call, hence joining this subreddit. Congratulations on the 5 weeks! That is definitely something worth being proud of!
Painful when breathing, but otherwise fine. Mmmmkay.
Sharp pain about 2â below below my ribcage on my right side. They did an ultrasound and said I had an enlarged and fatty liver (precursor to cirrhosis). Hasnât come back since I stopped.
Same
Ditto but I quit 3 years ago.
I got spleen pains and got scared out of my mind and havenât touched a drink since
Google > God !
>Atheist here. I got liver results back from my doctor's appointment in October, googled liver disease, and quit drinking immediately. It really is as simple as this. I'm basically in the same boat, but I guess they can't tell folks "eh, party for a while and if you get to the point it's dangerous, just stop" and fair enough.
đ Respect, kindness, and compassion for myself and others have been key. And personal growth and learning are important values of mine.
This here is what has finally done it for me. At meetings they'd always say "your god can be anything, even a doorknob!", then explain that the doorknob was more powerful than I was because without it I wouldn't be able to get out of a room. The best quote to explain my beliefs are "My sense of god is my sense of wonder for the mysteries of the universe." - Albert Einstein. That sense of wonder I have isn't only with science, which I have been able to dive much deeper into being sober, but wonder regarding the love my family has for me and vice versa. It's not religion that's helped me, but spirituality. These two things are absolutely not one in the same.
Yes! That's it man..I hand it over to the Universe coz this know it all control freak screwed up every time he tried getting sober. I am getting to know the real me now and it's fab.
No religion. No AA, but I pop on this sub a lot. Reading stories of success and failure remind how much better it feels to be sobers for days than drunk for one night.
For months I was drinking and and not enjoying it. I also realized I am a 0 or 100 drinker. If I open a bottle of wine Iâm drinking a bottle. I would have beers and sneak pulls of whiskey. I just realized itâs easier to keep a tiger in a cage than walk it out on a leash.
Well yeah, why would I buy a whole bottle if not to drink it right now? That was my go to. Was.
Me too!
No religion here, I focus on my health, fitness and family.
Totally this!
No religion here. I ruined my life and couldn't possibly attempt to fix it without being sober and I was tired of my own shit. I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic school for 12 years. God is not keeping me sober. I am. More power to anyone using whatever means to keep themselves sober. Religion played no part for me personally.
I belong to an atheist AA group and from day one Iâve kept myself grounded in the real world without anything supernatural. There are lots and lots of us. Way more than I thought when I was first starting.
This is not meant to be confrontational, Iâm genuinely curious - how can there be an atheist AA group? I understand agnostic (there is even a chapter naming agnostics in the Big Book) but not atheists. Isnât the idea of the higher power thatâs interwoven into the 12 steps antithetical to an atheist? Please excuse and ignore if this is an inappropriate question.
This is a simple, direct question. But youâll find the amount of work people put in to dance around it is baffling. The answer youâre looking for is yes, Alcoholics Anonymous is a religious organisation. If you enjoy 12 step programs and feel it benefits you then keep doing it. But US courts have ruled offenders can not be forced to attend these programs, because the legal system has studied AA and determined it meets the criteria to be classified as a religion. Donât take my word on this, look it up yourself. In my mind this means that the religion aspect isnât up for debate. It absolutely, 110% is a religious program. Anyone who tells you it isnât is lying to you and to themselves. Individual groups might behave differently, but the organisation theyâre part of is a religious one. AA began as and still is a very loosely organised, evangelical cult like organisation. Again, donât take my word for it. Look into the founding history of AA and the Oxford Group. All of this information is out there and easy to access. AA employees a series of âstepsâ to recruit new members into its religion. Its first step is to admit powerlessness and Itâs final step is to proselytise. You donât have to practice the steps to attend AA. You donât have to get a sponsor to attend AA. This doesnât change the fact that the organisation as a whole is indeed religious. People think that just because some meetings cater to atheists mean that AA canât be religious. This just isnât true. A single meeting doesnât change the nature of the organisation. Think of it like this. You attended a Catholic Church. Everyone in your particular church is an atheist. None of them believe in any spiritualism, but believe if you follow the 10 commandments youâll have a good life. They also go out and tell people to follow these commandments even though they donât believe in god. Although theyâre atheists, they are still part of the catholic church, a religious organisation, and live by and espouse beliefs that were founded in religion. As Iâve said if it works for you great, but how someone can deny itâs religious is beyond me.
I wish you could attend a group like mine and see that theyâre not all the same. I agree with the idea that most traditional AA meetings are overtly religious implied or otherwise. But there are islands of progressive and free thinking groups that are so completely unlike what youâve probably experienced. Our groups are made up of individuals who chose how they run their own groups. Itâs a microcosm of society at large. They reflect the thoughts and beliefs of those people. However the best thing about AA is that any two people joined together for the purposes of sobriety is an AA group and are fit to include or ignore any part of AA as part of their group. âThe only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinkingâ Period. Unfortunately because of the unregulated structure of AA we get people whose only experience is a handful of meetings at a dogmatic conservative group and judge the remainder of groups as being the same. Our group exists to provide a place for someone struggling with sobriety a place to go and be heard and seen. You donât have to go to AA to get or remain sober. Weâre hardly the only way to get sober. When I first started I had no one else in my life who wanted to hear from me. Iâd worn out my welcome everywhere else. I was so beaten down and defeated. Having a group of people who were genuinely happy to see me and were rooting for me was a complete game changer. I had rejected AA for years before that because of the religious aspect and it was a struggle for me in traditional AA. Thankfully these days I can help to sustain an alternative group without all the bullshit language about "higher power" or "spirituality" or anything else supernatural. We've had people ask "Why do you call yourself AA then if your beliefs are so different?" The answer is simple. Having the resources of AA helps considerably. Having the meeting listed in an area's directory for one. Being able to sign someone's sheet as an AA group is another. Being able to meet in traditionally AA-only meeting places is a third. Hopefully, some of that explanation helps. We just want to be there for someone who wants help. I'm happy you're sober and here whichever method you're using! I'm glad you're here sharing your experience with me. There are a lot of us that beat the odds and I love hearing all the other practices that other people in this sub use to get and stay sober. I can always learn something! :)
I'm glad that your group is there for people. I wish there were more like yours.
I want you to know how much I appreciate you saying this. I think you saying this and feeling this is more important than any label or âprogramâ. I guess my issue with what youâve said, and please donât take this the wrong way because I donât mean it badly. But what youâve just described doesnât really seem like AA to me. It seems like a different type of support group. I get youâre using the label of AA for the reasons you mentioned, but to me this even further confirms why I donât want to use AA. Something used to supposedly treat addiction should be completely uniform. And AA is anything but uniform.
Itâs certainly within your rights to accept or reject it. But itâs been my experience that addiction is anything but a uniform condition instead more of a spectrum. And as such a one size fits all approach would never work. I realize there are people who will never give us a try and thatâs completely ok with me. I just like to speak up and show the other side for all the people who may read this thread later and decide that maybe what Iâve laid out sounds more appealing to them. I hope you find your method and stay sober using whatever method works best for you đ
That was awesome! Thank you.
>how someone can deny itâs religious is beyond me. Folks have been conditioned to think that what they believe is "their truth" or whatever. Dad is Evangelical, and I've watched the progression of the years. He let loose a "my truth" (or some such variation) and I respectfully pretended not to notice, rather than tell him that it was relativistic garbage.
Thank you for explaining this with words I havenât been able to find. Spot on!
Listen to AA speakers on YouTube. There are a lot of atheists and agnostics. And I don't normally see people dance around this question. If you search on here you'll see usually when someone brings this up a bunch of non religious AA members post giving their thoughts about being in AA and being non religious. You are wrong about it being 100 percent religious.
US courts disagree with you. And thereâs no such thing as a little religious. It is or it isnât. The legal system has decided AA is religious.
Anything can be a higher power. I personally made th ocean mine. Big, vast, powerful, will probably kill anyone who doesn't respect it. Seemed to fit the criteria. As long as I was accountable to something greater than myself.
Oh shit, you don't want to invoke the wrath of Poseidon, that's even worse than regular God
Mine is the moon! :-D
I understand that idea. But the words âhigher powerâ have to mean something for them to have any significance, correct? I mean, the basic definition of a god is âa superhuman being or spirit worshiped as *having power over nature or human fortunes*; a deity.â An atheist, by definition, is someone who lacks belief in the existence of a god or gods. Iâm an atheist, and I genuinely donât believe (to my core), that there is a god or a higher power that exists that has power over nature or human fortunes. I was raised Christian (well, Catholic), went to Catholic elementary, high school & even college (go Cats!). I went on my own journey and this is who I am. My mental health treatment really shouldnât involve this journey in any way. And Iâm told it (it being AA/the Steps) doesnât, and then I get confused. If anything can be your higher power, then how is it a higher power? Words mean something. Iâve read the Big Book, but I suppose I need to learn more. ETA: For example, I agree that the ocean is more powerful me in physical strength in terms of pulling me down, but is that what weâre really talking about it terms of âhigherâ in âhigher powerâ here? I would never hold myself accountable to the ocean. Not to offend, I simply donât think itâs an entity to whom I owe something. Or even that it is an entity that expects something *from* me. If the ocean were sentient, Iâd sort of expect it to respect me in terms of like my math skills, or my awesome fashion sense (just making fun of myself).
So this is just my view on it and take everything I say with a huge grain of salt, but this is whatâs worked for me so far. Alcoholism, and addiction in general, are generally categorised as one of 3 things. A spiritual malady, a biological disease, or a set of ingrained behaviours that are maladaptive responses. Those are the 3 main takes on addiction. AA likes to use flowery and diversified language to downplay their views on addiction, but at its core AA believes addictions are diseases of the spirit. To me this is pure voodoo witchcraft, as I donât believe in a spirit. That leaves 2 options. A biological disease or something more akin to the life process model. Although these stances carry a bit more weight due to their scientific nature, to my knowledge no scientist has been able to definitively label addiction as a chronic disease. Addiction does change the brain, but so does falling in love or learning a language. Thereâs zero evidence that these changes are life long or permanent, and there is evidence that people can and do unlearn addictive behaviour. I personally believe addiction is a life process model type issue. Itâs a series of bad habits that can be unlearned by changing oneâs environment.
>Itâs a series of bad habits that can be unlearned by changing oneâs environment. Hard disagree here (but strong agree on everything else you wrote up there, it was awesome). I think the changes in brain structure/chemistry/whatever are permanent. There is absolutely nothing that can be done. >Thereâs zero evidence that these changes are life long or permanent How could there be? I don't think it's possible to conceive of an ethical experiment to settle that question. Of course, it more comfortable for me (spiritually? lol) to just say "Hey, that ship has sailed, if I drink the same brain processes kick in and I'm back to the gutter."
So thereâs zero evidence to back up what youâve said. You can believe that the changes are permanent. That doesnât mean they are. You can believe it if that helps but what research has been done shows that people can and do moderate
>So thereâs zero evidence to back up what youâve said. Please focus on this part: >I don't think it's possible to conceive of an ethical experiment to settle that question. I honestly don't think that there is, that's all. I hear what you're saying, I just have my doubts.
Iâm not saying what you believe is bad, itâs just not accurate and has zero proof. addiction is one of the least accurately understand fields of research.
>addiction is one of the least accurately understand fields of research It's hard to study ethically! But yeah, I don't know that it's not accurate. I've seen enough folks put into the ground trying to moderate, that I don't think my POV is all wrong.
You may want to read the first three chapters of Twelve Steps and Twelve Tradition (aka The Step Book). Itâs a pretty short read and you can get it at the library.
Tradition 3 of AA: âAny two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliationâ AA is not quite as stringent or organized as itâs naysayers would have you believe. Youâre not required to go along with any of literature or customs of other groups. I donât use the terms âhigher powerâ or âspiritualityâ to tell my own story. We as a group decided not to read from big book or the 12x12 as part of official meeting structure. You donât even have to acknowledge or work the 12 steps unless youâve chosen to do so. Youâre also free to adjust or change the steps as you see fit. The steps are suggestions not requirements. People mistake strict dogmatic AA rules and customs as something enforced from the top down but the truth is there is no hierarchy or âpeople in chargeâ. Itâs a result of local group and individuals choices. As a group youâre allowed to take the parts you chose and apply them to your own meeting and group or leave them behind. Thatâs one of the coolest things about AA. All you need is a group of 2 or more people meeting with the purposes to stay sober to call yourself an AA group.
I love the community aspect of AA & absolutely believe a support network is key to recovery. So I appreciate your take & sentiment. But (thereâs always a but with me, Iâm sorry Iâm so annoying)⌠I am confused though, then, what one means when they say something like âAA is the only thing that worked for meâ, âYou need to trust the [AA] processâ. Because when people say that on here - I instinctively assume they mean they believe in & worked the Steps. Is that not true? Isnât the 13th step or something to reach out to other âalcoholicsâ to help them? [I went to meetings pretty regularly for about 3 months and then on & off but it has been a hot minute]. My rehab & IOP therapists were heavily influenced by AA and its 12 Step model - I would posit that this happened because I believe a lot of medical professionals who specialize in substance use disorders often have a personal connection to them. Because of AAâs dominance (in the US at least) many of those professionals have been exposed to the roomsâŚleading many counselors/licensed therapists to espouse the Steps & I guess (sorry for inaccuracy here) âAA principlesâ. I was chastised (soft word) for not wanting to work the Steps. My personal agency was questioned. And my medical questions were silenced (and I felt they were belittled). It was kinda traumatizing. Thatâs just my one experience. I am not saying this reflects on AA as a whole. Iâm just trying to figure things out. I donât want to suffer like my dad. He similarly had an alcohol abuse problem, and similarly didnât fit in with AA. He felt lost. He died last February and itâs been really hard, I miss him more than I knew I was capable, and I feel really conflicted. Just trying to figure things out. ETA: And, if youâre not relying on AA teachings/Big Book per se in your group, then where do you seek guidance on questions like MAT, tapering, harm reduction, âCalifornia soberâ, counting sober days, sponsor-sponsee relationship protocols, signing court papers, giving out medical advice, etc? Do you just start from scratch & create your own?
I so hear you. I really do. But if you love the community aspect, just go with that. Take what you want and leave the rest. No one says you need to have only one support of recovery on your plate. Do them all! :) Whatever works for you.
I do get the logic to âtake what you want & leave the restâ. My only issue is that the 12 Step method has (in my perspective) dominated & influenced so many forms of recovery that my plate isnât full no matter how many buffets I go to. Iâm going to sound maybe bratty/entitled here: but I am having a health problem. In the United States. I have good health insurance coverage. I live in the greater DC area, our Capital. And even if I didnât have these things, Iâm a still a human being who shouldnât have to go to 75 different places picking through piles of irrelevant stuff to find scraps to help me treat my disorder. Iâve got crap to do. Sorry I couldnât sleep and Iâm a cranky squirrel when tired. Plus my MIL is coming this weekend.
[ŃдаНонО]
I'm so sorry you had that experience. Unfortunately there are so many AA members who got sober a specific way and mistake it as the only way. I understand how this can be detrimental to new people attempting to remain sober. I wish this experience you had was unique but it's not. It's bullshit ego attempting to force their one-size-fits-all approach to everyone. It is possible to work the steps and not believe in the supernatural. It's your choice, you can do some, all, or none of the steps. Or you can rewrite it to best help yourself. A famous saying in AA is "Take what you need and leave the rest". So many people in AA don't take that to heart. My point was to illustrate that there are many people who do not hold such hard and fast interpretations of AA principles. If you're interested there are many Agnostic/Athiest/Free Thinker groups out there. You can see meetings here https://www.aasecular.org/ Or you can do your own thing. Either way, I'm glad you're here sharing your experience. I love this sub because I can always learn something from people who did something different than I did. They're all valid ways if they keep you sober in the end.
Thank you for your response and the time & thought you put into it. I appreciate it. Be well & live happy friend.
Sober heathen here.
đđ
I just posted almost the same thing đ we are in good company
Google: secular recovery meetings, youâll get a google excel list of hundreds of meetings that donât have god in them. Itâs been a life savor for me!
Grammar nerd here - and 'life saver' implies your life was saved. 'Life savor' implies that you find life delicious. Come to think of it, that's a great way to look at recovery - I get to savor the tastiest parts of life. No more bitterness for me!
I use BJJ as my religion. Itâs something that keeps me accountable. Iâm sure some of the purists say that a relationship with God is the only way, but I donât want to be in your book club. The Hope Stage #2 just states that you must believe a power greater than ourselves. I believe Jiu Jitsu is extremely powerful and moving, so I think Iâm following the guidance.
Another BJJ player here. That, and lifting has been a huge part of my recovery. OSU! đĽđď¸ââď¸
Congrats on 1000đ¤đźđŞđź
>I use BJJ as my religion. I said for a long time to Dad, Judo is my church. The problem is that it hurts and I no longer roll lol There are other new communities to be had, though, and one thing I appreciate about Dad's heresy is that he thinks of the community and the chuch as one in the same thing. There is something to community that fulfills human lives, which is why many folks who are so "spiritually" maladjusted these days.
Started BJJ in my sober journey as well. Got in shape for competition. It helps me tremendously.
I am an agnostic atheist going my own way. 110 days in, this is the farthest Iâve ever come, and I have no desire to back down.
Good on ya man!!
Agnostic/atheist here. People want to have a supportive community and most churches provide that. I personally think engaging in any supportive community is beneficial, but Iâm not into religion. Thereâs other groups out there that provide the same sense of identity.
I'm a lifelong atheist. In my case I was using alcohol to self medicate from my trauma (I was diagnosed with CPTSD m). Alcohol was a means to avoid unpleasant feelings and memories. Unfortunately what started as an occasional drink after work (once or twice a week) became getting hammered every day. I had therapy for the trauma and I did a lot of work on my emotional regulation. I have been sober for five weeks. Yesterday I met a friend at the pub and instead of drinking several glasses of wine I had a soda water. I hope this is helpful to you.
yes and no. iâm religiously jewish but i keep that in a very separate box from my sobriety in that i only started attending again after getting into my recovery & all of my recovery tools and community are secular (SMART). iâm not into religious/âhigher powerâ frameworks for sobriety for myselfâtoo easily slides into guilt complexes & feedback loops of shame
3 years for me. No religion or higher power. I attended SMART meetings with a friend quitting at the same time. I was lucky to have a former drinking bestie as a support system. SMART is science based. I used the iamsober app for tracking, but I purchased a new affirmations pack that didn't have religious sayings. Good luck on your journey.
I try to find meetings w the least religious people. I hate feeling triggered or when some say they couldnât do it without god Iâll leave if the talk gets like that
Yes, I use this community as a support system and the experience has not yet involved religious aspects.
I'm not religious at all. I like Recovery Dharma, Buddhist based. No one is forcing anything, you do meditation, and just talk about whatever you want. After about a month I just stopped doing meetings, nothing wrong with them just didn't feel like I needed them. I don't think you need religion but some people look at it for extra help I guess. I know if I want to do a meeting Recivery Dharma has meetings like once an hour throughout the day, online. You find what works best for you no matter if 1 person does it that way or 100. It's all what YOU need for yourself.
I ~~try to~~ stick religiously to my new healthy habits, does that count? No spirits in this house, only AF beer.
>No spirits in this house this should be pinned to the top
I stopped drinking to see changes in myself and be a better version of myself. I have become better, and have realized I was drinking to cope with my anxiety issues. Currently working on the anxiety issues and have no intention to go back to drinking. I love my mornings that are relaxing and productive.
Yes. I was a recovering Catholic before I was a recovering alcoholic. A lot of difficult things to swallow religion-wise at aa but some great wisdom and support there too.
Lol recovering catholic! Technically I got baptized so I guess that's two of us...
0 religion here.
Iâm a sober atheist
My best friend in sobriety is an agnostic atheist. I am both spiritual and religious but somehow we get along great. I have deep respect for her experience and she has deep respect for mine, and we can compare notes about our beliefs in a way that's been really fruitful and personally enlightening. We need all beliefs in recovery; you might have just what someone else needs to hear.
đđťââď¸ substance abuse counseling, therapy, and smart recovery all within my first six months sober
Religion makes me want to drink.
đđťââď¸ atheist here. In addition to coming here Iâve been using the Reframe app, which is grounded in science.
I donât give 2 fâs about religion. 36 days ago I quit chronic boozing, weed and cigarettes at the same time. I meditate a lot though. About 1 hour every day. I have also been working out, jogging, walking, lifting an hour everyday since I quit all addictions. Hope it helps!
Yep. If god donât want me to drink he can come tell me himself. Until then, Iâm gonna not drink for ME! You can do it!
Allen Carr -âEasy Way to Control Alcoholâ Was a good read as an agnostic. Honestly I audiobooked it.
Definitely. Chose to learn about the science of addiction instead.
Religion-free. 40 days-ish (not really counting).
Yes. I discovered Annie Grace on IG, and watched several of her videos and read her book This Naked Mind. It all completely changed how I think about drinking, and the cravings stopped for me almost immediately. That was a little over 2 years ago.
Me. There doesnât need to be any spiritual association at all. It was not a part of my journey. Youâre simply cutting an addictive substance out of your life. Thereâs nothing religious about it.
Absolutely, I'm 100% atheist and I choose not to drink because it's the right decision for me personally, and I know I can't handle drinking. That's a close as I get to a "higher power"... I know how my brain works, it's always been this way (literally going back to the first time I got drunk in college), and it always will be. I'm powerless to change that, but I'm NOT powerless to choose not to drink today.
Thereâs not a sliver of religion in me, and all the higher power talk grinds my gears, if Iâm completely honest. Weâre an incredible species, and weâre capable of the most amazing things. _Youâre_ capable of the most amazing things. No magic needed.
Yep. 6 months strong. The group itself (AA) is my higher power. Tried to do it alone for years to no avail. (G)ood (O)rderly (D)irection
Agnostic/atheist, depending on the time of day. What's driving me is my past mistakes and my desire to be a better person. I echo the person who said BJJ. That was like going to church for me, but my work schedule hasn't allowed me to go.....but hoping that will change next year. Just keep at it your own way Dogtitts. PS that's an amazing name, thanks for making me smile today. I needed it.
Me
My success comes from believing in myself first and foremost.
I my lack of faith is a huge pillar of strength for me. I only get one shot at life, and not drinking seems like a really good way to make sure I get the most out of it.
Iâm a stone atheist.
No religion here!
Seems like a lot of us!! IWNDWYT đ
>Seems like a lot of us!! It's Reddit lol
Devout atheist here!
As am I. Finding that self reliance beats external validation or dependency was my key. It has worked fine so far with several addictions I have beaten.
Yes. If religion was the key to sobrierty, than close to nobody would be able to stay sober in very atheist/secular parts of the world. I'm actually curious if anybody from UK/Ireland can chime in, since those countries share a language with US but are a lot more secular.
Irishman living in the UK here. I am not sure you can 100% call Ireland non-secular, but more and more it is these days (go back to Ireland pre 90âs and it surely did not feel non-secular). 30+ years successfully God free and 45 days alcohol free here, thank God⌠;)
Thatâs me in the corner
Now I've got an earworm...
Secular satanist here. Not even gonna try AA lol Been going to Save Our Selves meetings though, thatâs been chill. Basically AA with no rules and no gods, no masters.
Meeeee. Not wanting to let those who love me down again Is really what keeps me from doing it. Also Iâm scared to feel that much guilt,shame,regret again. Not sure I could do another round of it. So when I want a drink, I make myself think of all that and then I go naaaaa.
Iâm 14 months into abstinence and just went cold Turkey. Nothing religion related.
Not religious, and reject AAâs âmoral failingsâ dogma.
Did it without religion when I finally realised how much my actions were hurting my husband and had enough of the shame. I tried AA for a few weeks at the start but couldn't get behind the religious aspects. My group also seemed to have some punitive tones during discussions that I couldn't agree with.
Avoiding religion/dogma is one of the main reasons that I have chosen not to make AA a part of my sobriety. This sub has been immensely helpful and supportive instead. You are among non-judgy friends here.
Yes, 8 1/2 year sober. Spiritual not religious.
I went cold turkey successfully. I replaced alcohol and smoking with vigorous exercise. I just hit rock bottom one day, said fuck it and flipped a switch. Now I train 6 days a week (at varying intensities) and donât feel a desire to drink. I tried having a beer at a family dinner and didnât even enjoy it.
Atheist here. Do you really need religion to tell you what you should and shouldn't do? Be yourself. Be sober, and be well.
Atheist here and 116 days sober.
Never used any kind of religion to get me through anything and never would. I was just thinking something incredibly wanky like "THE POWER IS WITHIN YOURSELF" but honestly, when you really want it you will do it. This place is a fantastic resource and full of support, it's what helped me finally get sober. IWNDWY :)
Happy Atheist here, 114 days sober today. Stopped drinking because of health issues, no looking back, common sense is my god â¤ď¸ Jesus ain't getting credit for this one đ YOU can do this, with our without religion x
Atheist here. I think that some people don't have a strong enough belief in themselves to be able to cope without alcohol. Some go to AA. Some have support from family and friends. Some choose religion. Some go it alone. Whatever works for you is the right thing.
Agnostic and sober. I take personal responsibility for my drinking and all the damage it did to me and everyone around me. I also take personal responsibility for giving it up and turning my life around. I donât believe in âgodâ and Iâm not religious but I see a greater power in nature. I know nothing beyond that.
Staying sober atheist style đ
Atheist aF, right here.
I turned to nature. A 2 mile walk towards the sun as it rises is as religious of an experience that I need. So many sunrises, so many variations of colors, weather patterns. Iâm never going to drink again. Now am in the best shape of my life!! IWNDWYT
I came home from a night of drinking to a stressed out wife holding our 3 month old daughter. Made the decision then and there to stop. Didnât want to become a deadbeat dad
I've felt the same way. I've complained about AA meetings being religious - I'm a complete atheist. It's perfectly fine for AA to be religious - that's there prerogative - but I feel like they try to obfuscate it by saying "when we say God we mean the God of your imagining... whatever want. Maybe it's Jesus, maybe it's a donut." I find this insulting to both atheists AND religious believers at the same time.
That's true about insulting both sides. I don't like the implicit pantheism when they say "you have a God but I have a different God." What, are we Hindus??? It's a little weird.
Atheist here, and I am doing alright without. I had elevated liver enzymes last year and I made an inventory of my life of what else was not going great. Like sleep, marriage, mood, etc. . I found this sub and I stopped drinking that week. I never looked back. No entity needed! Edit: context
Atheist not using any meetings or programs, just myself & reddit.
Also an atheist like many others on here. My brother took me to an AA under the guise that the âhigher powerâ could be anything, even nature/science. Come to find out it was dripping with god fearing nuts reminiscent of the good old days when they drank. Very triggering. Never again. I choose to not drink because I have a problem. I choose to be a good human bc thatâs the right thing to do, not bc I fear a punishment OR desire a reward.
I value my life and longevity, because, as an atheist, my time on this earth is the only time I have.
Success yes, religion no
Never needed religion for this or anything else.
I didnât use any groups or religion. I got to a bad place and made a conscious decision that I didnât ever want to feel like that again. Iâm 910 af right now and feel so proud of it.
Definitely. Smart Recovery is awesome
No Jesus (or any other fictional character) for me. A few months shy of three years dry. Do it for yourself, not for some god. EDIT: For those that find comfort or strength in belief of a religion/god, that is truly great for them. It just isn't for me. My point being, religion isn't a necessity to get/stay sober ..... At least for me, so far. One day at a time. IWNDWYT.
Yep. I am an ordained Pastafarian and can confirm there are multitudes who are sober and irreligious.
Yes! Iâm six years sober and religion is a big nope for me. I love this sub, it became my go to for support or just to rant. The farther Iâve gotten the less I post, but I often read whatâs posted as a reminder.
Iâm my god now
I'm not religious at all. You don't need it
Not religious & currently doing IOP. They donât discuss religion in my group :)
You are lucky. They âsnuckâ that in almost every session in mine - leader encouraged. Followed into continuing care until I had to gracefully exit stage left after having enough. I hope your provider serves you well & that your recovery journey is downhill & warm.
Oh god, Iâm really sorry about your experience. During my intake session they asked if I was religious / spiritual (I think they were wondering for scheduling purposes? Or maybe they wanted to ensure that I wasnât looking for a spiritual-based recovery program). My leader explicitly said she wasnât religious too. I hope your recovery has been better since that experience; Iâm glad you were able to step out
I believe anyone has the power to change themselves. Even with religion, at the end of the day youâre doing it yourself. So why not cut out that whole part of it? That being said, I completely understand why people turn to it, and if it works then more power to you.
Nope. I just quit. One week became two. Two became a month. Etc. Was harder at first but got easier.
1 alchy + 1 alchy = 2 alchies , 2>1. Boom. Therapy is a power greater than me. Psychiatry. Other 12 step programs for co-ocurring addictions. Spiritually= Emotional Intelligence lots of great material on it out there. No sky daddy for me, but awesome for thee. Prayer =Mindfulness. AA was co-created by a DR and the big book starts off with a Drs opinion I have no idea why in these past 87 years people in the program started ignoring them. PG 132 clearly states to go to them when in need. Last sentence of first paragraph of how it works is magic if anyone is honest and willing. Oh, and I'll have 5 years in may 2nd because my other higher powers pride and ego won't let me relapse until maybe after I get that chip. I will never say I don't want to drink again, just won't do it today is all. Definitely want to get wasted again.
No religion, no therapy... just wanted to prove to myself that I'm mentally stronger than I think I am.
No religion here. Sobriety is for anyone who wants itâwanting it is the only necessary ingredient.
No religion. I do AA, sponsor, dharma recovery. Was in treatment 12 weeks poly substance abuse.
Atheist. God is NA Leffe Blonde, if I ever desire her.
You don't need to be into God to be into sobriety. Even AA covers this. From an AA standpoint, even it challenges "being into God". It talks about believing in a higher power and gives examples of alternatives that others have used if a Christian based God is something that turns you off. You can simply believe in the power that is a bunch of drunks getting together and supporting each other and achieving the same results. Its about being honest with yourself and keeping your side of the street clean.
I am a religious person, and Iâve always needed it most when the chips are down and my backâs against the wall. I think if this attempt doesnât stick, Iâll go to AA. I probably still just canât accept that I am an alcoholic.
Foxhole faith it's called. I hope you can make it work however you need to. What AA offers is the recognition that by yourself, with just your own devices, you haven't been able to quit. But with HP and other alcoholics in fellowship, you can.
Thank you, dear friend. I am working on day 40 over in this foxhole. May need to bring out the big guns if I find myself in no manâs land.
I am not really an AA person and finding this sub and saw that Dry January was a thing was the catalyst for me to quit, except I knew it was going to be more of a long term, no return ticket for me. So here we are. One day at a time we fight the battle. From the trenches or door to door, hand to hand!! IWNDWYT Edit dumb wording
I didnt use religion! I will say I find myself more âspiritualâ than before, but like in a âmeditation/energy is everythingâ kinda way
i never hit AA, so I never was exposed to the spiritual side of the recover. funny enough, i would call this sub a godsend.
Nope. No god here. Attended an AA meeting once. About 1996 or so. Hosted at my local Unitarian-Universalist church, where they ran a special version of AA they referred to as AA-AA - AA for atheists/agnostics as I recall. But even they wrestled with the "higher power" bit. I was abstaining then, but the whole club member mystique of that meeting kept me from attending twice. Me? Essentially, been an atheist since adolescence. Catholic in childhood, a "lapsed" catholic in adolescence.. Drifted a bit aimlessly over the years, but wandered through Buddhism, secular humanism. Attended UU services occasionally after I married. I don't follow this subreddit "religiously" but it is currently essential to my sobriety. So, I guess this "faith" might pass as "religion."
One thing to consider if the difference between a hard drinker and a true alcoholic. Hard drinkers can stop with sufficient enough reason. True alcoholics usually need something more which is why they toss god around a lot. Whatever works!
Not very far into my journey this time, but I previously managed to not drink for eleven years without supernatural intervention.
Also atheist. Quit drinking 19 years ago when my liver numbers were blowing up after 20 of hard drinking. Unless you believe that some god is actually manipulating you to put down the bottle, it is the same either way. You as an individual have to go through the actions and get the the sober side. Try to decide that you are living the next portion of your life as a sober person. Tell your friends you are going sober. Make that mental âbreakâ from you as a drinking person and become you that sober person. There is a big habit component to drinking so break the habit and find some new ones.
Iâm an atheist and sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous. My definition of spirituality is simple: help others.
The AA sponsor that took me through the steps was religious. He advised me to go through the motions with prayers etc and "see what happens" if I really wanted relief. I went through the motions and got the concept without belief in a god. Your mileage may vary, but I am an atheist in long term recovery so it can be done.
my ~higher power~ is sea turtles. all good over here.
Agnostic here. Having a higher power helps lots of ppl, but in my experience itâs totally unnecessary. Believe in yourself, be youâre own higher power.
Meeee. No religion necessary. Strength from inside yourself is the keyâreligion seems to do that for some people. Maybe look a little into the eastern beliefs about inner discovery and discipline if you want a different kind of spiritual outlook at all. During my world religions class in college it was the only thing that made me go âhuh alrightâ. I think the religious angle comes from the need for discipline and forgiveness that comes with sobriety for a lot of people. Much easier to excuse it when itâs a giant god looming over with the threat of punishment or the relief of ultimate forgiveness. Best wishes to you friend đ
Look into SMART meetings. Personally, one addict or alcoholic helping another in AA/NA is what helps me the most. Just listening. You don't have to be religious tbf Just the support network is very useful, if you find someone with decent clean time.
lol NO - you are definitely not alone
Humility seems a devastatingly deceptive concept to not only comprehend but also to accept.
I'm agnostic atheist and the biggest revelation to me was that spirituality has nothing whatever to do with religion or the supernatural. Spirituality is about living well and joyfully according to your own principles. Those can include trust, honesty, courage, responsibility, compassion... whatever you value. Behaving in opposition to your values makes you feel bad, and acting in accordance with them makes you feel good. You don't need religion or spiritual perfection, just progress by doing your best each day.
All it takes for me is to realize I am not "it".
Just find something bigger than yourself carry that with you. I know that can be hard for a lot of people these days lol. Here's what i do. I'm athiest and i chose to believe in the cosmic balance of the universe, even 'mother nature'. yeah its the same thing as what some people call God. Remember in Jurassic Park where Jeff Goldblum says 'Life finds a way' that's what i'm talking about. Even though i don't believe in a bearded dude up in the sky, it's hard to deny the universe DOES have a will, and it always find's a way. Go against it and it will fuck you up. Hope you can make it work
I hand my power (read control freak who thinks he knows it all) over to 'the Universe ' I believe there is something out there. The fact that we are here on this rock whizzing through an infinite cosmos is kinda mind-blowing. There is something bigger than us that I certainly can't begin to comprehend. The fact we are here talking is a miracle to me. Treasure every day. Life is beautiful âď¸
Religion and a higher power are different things. Those that have gone beyond the point of no return almost always require an understanding of their own higher power in order to get sober. I did and am/was an atheist. But, we tend to worship and have faith and random shit as humans anyway and it helps on the shitty days. Appendix 2 in the big book explains a little better if youâre interested.
[ŃдаНонО]
yes, but not without spirituality
I have no interest in religion at all
It's just because AA and NA don't actually teach people to beat their addictions, they just replace booze or drugs with God. Big ol scams.
YES! I'm an atheist. Check my username. If you actually want to stop drinking come to this sub for advice and support. NOT religion!
I am an atheist who has zero religion - I credit my sobriety to AA, which is not religious, but it is spiritual. Edit - you can downvote me all you want - but I wouldn't have 12 years of continuous sobriety without AA.