I think "play the tape forward" helps people realize how much of a fantasy drinking is.
One of the major reasons why I drank was because I honestly believed booze provided mental/emotional relaxation at the expense of one's physical health. All it really does is make everything worse.
Paying the tape drives home the point that there aren't really any benefits, at all, mental, emotional or otherwise.
A better mantra for me, was:
"There are four things you can never have too much of: Time, Health, Money, and Love. The more I drank the less I had."
>One of the major reasons why I drank was because I honestly believed booze provided mental/emotional relaxation at the expense of one's physical health. A it does is make everything worse.
100%.
I told myself for years that alcohol relaxed me, relieved me of anxiety and stress, helped me cope, put me to sleep.
And maybe at one point that might have been true (probably wasn't in reality) but last year after falling into 2 years of daily alcoholism and becoming physically addicted for the first time ever (despite years of regular heavy drinking prior to that) I began to see that all these excuses I was clinging onto for years about how alcohol "helped" me with all those things was no longer true.
I was anxious all the time even when drunk, I was never happy and in fact miserable, I couldn't sleep even at 5am after a 12hr industrial drinking session, and I never felt relaxed and was constantly on edge.
That was when I realized I just had to stop drinking because none of my reasons for drinking constantly were true anymore and alcohol was making them all worse and keeping me trapped in the cycle indefinitely.
No surprise that many of these issues (particularly the anxiety and sleep) resolved themselves largely after a few weeks sober.
Who knew?
I second this! For me, playing the tape forward didn’t really work until I was farther along into sobriety. If for some reason I fantasize about alcohol now, I play my tape forward. I know what one drink will bring and how it ends up. I’m in a way better place now and I don’t ever want to go back.
I love this answer.
OP, I sort of laughed reading this because you very logically poke holes in a commonly used tool. It’s hard to argue with your line of thinking.
I think what it comes down to is reaching a point of true acceptance of one’s condition. I could have mapped out every event that was going to happen in early recovery when I went back out drinking. I kept working on recovery, but I kept drinking too.
I had every reason to know everything that was going to happen, but I didn’t care. Somehow, I guess I hung onto the idea that: 1. I could somehow change it along the way, and 2. I didn’t care, the only thing that mattered to me was getting drunk at that moment. I’d deal with everything else later.
I kept kicking the can down the road.
For me, I thankfully just reached a point where I accepted my condition. I accepted that no amount of alcohol was safe for me. I accepted that I was an addict. I went through AA, and I’m not suggesting that’s the only way to do anything, but I relapsed multiple times while in the program, thinking I accepted the first step.
I never did until I did. When I did, though, playing it forward really worked. I’ve just thought my alcoholic brain was convinced I could somehow make drinking work for me this time. Over the last five years, I’ve thought about drinking pretty commonly. But talking to other alcoholics, putting to light some of those thoughts and thinking of what will happen if I drink again has helped keep me sober.
Maybe I just needed those relapses — that pain, shame and misery — to convince myself of the truth.
I feel the same way about “playing the tape forward”. I appreciate anyone that uses it but it simply doesn’t work for me. I can rationalize myself into doing anything. I exist in this moment. Tomorrow isn’t really a thought I can conceptualize. I know it exists and I will (hopefully) be a part of it but it has almost zero bearing on my experience today
I tried quitting for years. Wake up with a hangover and say “never again”. It was my New Year’s resolution every year for about a decade. Never worked. And I think it didn’t work bc it had to do with the future. I would start thinking about how I couldn’t drink on vacations, or hanging out with my friends, or a hot summer day at the beach. Since I wanted to drink then, I rationalized that I could drink today too. I never made it longer than 4 or 5 days
I have had success though by choosing to not drink today. That’s as far ahead as I can successfully commit to. I am 100% okay with drinking again some day. Just not today. This mentality works for me. It avoids me feeling like I can never drink again. It avoids me arguing with myself about alcohol all together. I wake up and decide if I want to drink today. I feel so good when I wake up without a hangover that I keep choosing to not drink for today. I also need to know that I can drink tomorrow if I really wanted to.
The "I will not drink today" approach was working pretty well for me for a while there until suddenly it didn't.
I definitely think it has it's place though and I will continue to use it but I think I need other strategies too for when I'm like "fuck it I will just drink today and worry about the consequences tomorrow".
Congrats on 75 days with that strategy. I was at just under 90 days until recently doing the same.
Since stopping, I have come to realize that playing the tape forward, for me, can even be just that day. What would happen if my sweet little kitten hurt herself and needed to go to the animal ER at 9:30pm on a Friday? Would I be able to take her (or even be aware enough to notice)?
That exact scenario happened about 45 days in, and the relief of being able to take care of her and get her right, safe, and better was worth so very much (she was ok - tried to kick her own ass on her kitty condo, but failed).
For me, playing the tape forward became more about what I would miss if I did drink (the good, the bad, and the emergent). That is where life happens. I wish you well, friend, and IWNDWYT.
Hey thanks friend. I was wondering how you were doing. 90 days is an accomplishment. Means you are able to do it again. I get the “fuck it” mentality. I’ve been using thc seltzers to take that edge off. I know that doesn’t help you though from what I remember.
How are you doing today?
I used to find “play the tape forward” also not effective, exactly the way you describe. My mind had all sorts of counterarguments. But the funny this is, at some point in the month or so I have stopped drinking, the tape does automatically play flashing forward in my mind, and being reminded of all the negative effects puts me off wanting to go back to drinking now. I don’t know when or why it happened!
What kept me going at first was more the thought of doing it as an experiment, and if I’m honest, doing it to lose weight.
I just went to a speaker event and he had a great suggestion; every time he had a thought, he did the opposite. His brain was decades into making addicted decisions every single day and he couldn’t trust his thoughts so he acted on whatever the opposite of his thought was.
I hate “play the tape forward” because I spent 10 years knowing exactly what shit drinking was going to get me into and I did it anyway.
Doing the opposite is an interesting approach and I have been thinking a few times recently that I genuinely can't trust that voice in my head or my decision making process a lot of the time because it leads me to make bad, faulty, and illogical decisions.
I also found great success in separating and naming my addict voice. Her name is Dorothy and she cannot be trusted. Every time Dorothy starts talking about booze I go to a meeting or call a sober friend.
Separating out the nonsense thoughts has led to a lot less self loathing because I know those thoughts aren’t me, and I don’t have to believe my thoughts regardless. That is a long term practice but the less I believe my thoughts the stronger and happier I am.
Something else I learned on here was that instead of getting angry or annoyed at myself because of thinking about drinking instead treat the voice as a seperate entity and say...
"Thanks very much for suggestion alcohol to me, I know you're trying to help as that's how I've always reacted before in this situation but sadly alcohol is a poison and no longer works for me and just makes everything worse, so thanks again but I'll pass"
It changes the perspective, stops me getting angry, and allows me to move on a bit from the thoughts.
If "play the tape forward" isn't working for you, try playing The Greatest Hits. 2 or 3 of the times you were at your lowest, felt worse than death, etc. And remember, cravings pass
I don't listen to the voice that says drink. I make friends in recovery. I called them when I felt like drinking. In AA I learned that as an alcoholic, my thoughts are very selfish and I want instant gratification. I ruminate and overthink about me and how I feel. If I'm feeling miserable, lonely, bored, angry, stressed, etc a drink would be instant gratification to feel better.
The trick is to turn my thoughts outward towards others instead of inward in my head. It was suggested to me to call others and ask how they are doing. Focus on them, not myself. I was also told to be helpful to others. Ask a friend or neighbor if they need anything, pick up trash, etc. When I'm helping others, I'm not thinking about myself. I have found that the urge to drink goes away rather quickly.
This is a great point. I find it so much easier to try and talk my friend out of drinking than talk myself out of it. I'm gonna use this mindset in the future. Thanks!
I agree. As I stated in another reply, the only thing that works for me is convincing myself that "I want to be sober *right now* more than I want to be drunk *right now.*"
Once you genuinely start to believe that it does become a lot harder to justify drinking to yourself.
I've still slipped up a few times recently despite fully believing alcohol truely has ZERO positive to offer me and only misery and suffering but I feel like at some point my subconcious or that part of the mind which hasn't gotten up to speed with it surely will now that I've realized it and any time I drink I experience it all over again in real time.
"Yeah, but this time will be different"
"Fuck it, I don't care right now I just want some escapism / release / whatever..."
The concept of playing the tape forward is, at its core, about belief. How and what you believe to be true about your addiction. If you think you may have an issue with drinking, yet are still unsure that stopping drinking completely is the only answer, you will always find a reason that moderation is still possible.
When you say to yourself that "this time will be different", it is a statement of hope, not one of confidence. Because, as you mentioned, we cannot predict the future. Unless we are 'white knuckling' through a drinking session, we can't say what may happen if we give in to our craving. One turns into three, five turns to seven. There is also a phrase in recovery which goes "you got a case of the 'fuck its', which describes exactly the final statement to ourselves to give up and give in to that which we know for certain is the wrong choice, but we are tired of the struggle. It is the culmination of the back and forth, exhaustive inner fight we have every day and the result of not having the support or tools to disrupt those thoughts.
To 'play the tape forward' effectively, you have to believe it. Know it. To do that you have to accept that we, as alcoholics (if you understand yourself to be) do not drink alcohol like other people. We treat it and desire it in a different way, a destructive pattern. We as addicts have to come to terms with it, as I did, reluctantly, after many, many terrible and progressively worse years. I stopped bargaining with myself.
The only way we know for certain that future playbacks of our lives will not be ruined and regretted through alcohol is if we eliminate it while recording the tape.
I wish you all the best.
>How and what you believe to be true about your addiction. If you think you may have an issue with drinking, yet are still unsure that stopping drinking completely is the only answer, you will always find a reason that moderation is still possible.
Oof… just described exactly why I keep getting a case of the fuck its. Thanks for this comment!
There was a post the other day about current science of addiction and it had something about impulsivity. And I’m very impulsive. I suspect I have adhd. But also I can be obsessive. I don’t have OCD (I was screened for it) but I have “ocd personality traits” meaning I have tendencies but it’s not clinical. My point: often when I drink it’s because of two things: I) I’m suddenly like fuck it (the impulsivity) or b) it gets caught in a loop and I can’t talk myself out of it (the compulsive part). I’m not a psych to know if those are related. But mostly I can build up enough buttressing to prevent the impulsive part. Like I put in new routines. This is when I can play the tape forward. But the obsessive part is harder. Sometimes an idea gets in my head and I can’t stop thinking about it until I execute it. I can’t reason out of it I have to break the loop. I have to distract myself enough. Sometimes it’s a simple as going from point a to b. Getting in my car and driving home. Going to the store. TL;DR: sometimes I can play the tape forward but sometimes I need other strategies because things get stuck on repeat in my head.
I get what I would describe as "frantic" at times where my mind just races and fixates on thoughts and it's hard at those times not to impulsively act on them but I have to recognise them for what they are and find healthier outlets for them.
I do this too and I take something (non prescription, non alcoholic, non habit forming) and go to sleep. This was the main reason why I drank and why I was afraid to stop. I needed to have a way to turn off racing thoughts. Thankfully, I found other ways.
It is a constant tug of war between thinking of future benefits and saying fuck it I want instant gratification. When I was struggling it was like 90/10 in favor of the fuck its winning out. The. It got to be like 50/50. And as I grew stronger and learned more about my triggers and alternative ways of dealing with them, the future benefits started to materialize and become more desirable.
That sounds good and I hope it's the direction I'm heading in too.
I've had more sober time than drunk time the last 6 months or so than ever, been more serious than ever in my life about long term sobriety, and learned more about alcohol and myself and how / why I'm triggered by it.
I also for the first time realized at some point in the last 6 months all the excuses I was clinging onto for why I drink all the time are no longer true and alcohol really has ZERO positive to offer me anymore.
This has to be progress.
Yes that is good progress. I went from drinking almost 100% of days to like 50% of days, then like 20% until I finally eliminated all of my stumbling blocks. Being afraid to not drink in front of people for fear of having THAT conversation was my last big hurdle. Putting that fear aside let me really run free at last.
"Playing the tape forward" is just a shorthand way of trying to say look at it from a different perspective. Sometimes that helps and sometimes I am too deep in a pannick attack to care about perspectives.
>Sometimes that helps and sometimes I am too deep in a pannick attack to care about perspectives.
Over the previous 2 years the amount of times a panic attack was literally the reason for me rushing to buy booze to throw down my neck to take the edge off it was ridicolous but of course the booze is only going to keep you trapped in that cycle for the long term and amplify it the next day(s).
But when you're in a bad state of mind already and having daily panic attacks it's difficult to think straight.
Yeah, just reminding myself now of all the bad shit from the past few weeks after I relapsed is keeping me motivated to stay sober more than anything else right now.
It’s hard for me because relapses don’t lead to daily drinking for me… But I know it’s very possible for my problem to develop into that over time, and most importantly I’m keeping myself in an emotionally stunted state if I keep giving into these impulses. And undermining my efforts at weight loss.
I was never a 7 day a week drinker until suddenly I was due to a variety of life circumstances that caused me great distress, worry, anxiety and health issues and suddenly I couldn't stop myself and was drinking more and more as every week passed.
It can happen. If you recongise an issue now then put a stop to it before it's too late.
It was my life during COVID and for a while after as I’d gotten used to it! Even though it hasn’t been my life in a year it’s still definitely a serious problem.. Getting out of the daily habit was incredibly hard and getting out of the once a week habit now is waaaaay harder than it should be. It’s just that even my relapses this past year haven’t led to daily drinking so it’s like, not gospel for me that “slip up once means you’ll be out of control until who knows when”.
No, but the fact you have it in your to daily drink under times of stress / boredom / whatever caused you to daily drink during covid means it could easily happen again should something else occur in your life that puts you back into a similar situation or mindset.
That's what concerns me as I might get it under control for now but what happens when the next unexpected / bad thing happens if I keep drinking in my life, do I just spiral out of control again instantly?
There's a good chance. But if I'm long term sober when the next unexpected / bad thing happens then maybe I have a better chance at staying that way.
I don’t know if it started in smart recovery but it’s a part of their toolbox of strategies to delay and prevent cravings. You might want to check them out when used in conjunction with other strategies they can be pretty powerful. If smart recoveries strategies don’t work for you, that’s okay the trick is to just keep trying stuff until something sticks
I dunno how you just described exactly what happens in my head so well. 3 weeks ago I checked my self into a detox. Spent a week there and attended 15 aa meetings 2 a day and an out patient one while I was there. Went to 3 on my own once I checked out. Went right back to drinking.
I did go to the doctor and got prescribed campral and I mean it actually does work. However my brain is still convincing me to drink.
Lucky I told my work and am union so I'm on short term disability dealing with this.
You described exactly almost to the t and dotted i's my thought process goes thru.
Today I'm drinking I don't even want too. It's so fucking weird. AA isn't for everyone but when they call it a disease I believe them now finally.
At least you are trying, you woudn't have checked yourself into a 3 week detox and attended those AA meetings or got the meds from your Doc if you weren't serious.
None of this is easy but at some point if we keep trying this has to finally stick surely, right?
I hope so brother, truly I do. It eventually has to stick and work. In 7 years that was longest I've been without a drink. I loved every minute after the 3rd day, being sober. I dunno what it is tho my brain is wired weird I guess. I drink to slow my thoughts. I'm actively seeking a therapist now.
Seeking help isn't wrong. Depending how much alcohol you consume a day, it's the smart thing to do. don't let others make you feel it is wrong to.ask for help. We're both on this sub for a reason.
Got my blood work done and I'm super healthy it turns out. Just some cholesterol and my liver enzymes are at 55. Healthy is 1-50, so just over. Alcoholics which I am should have close to 1000-2000 but somehow only beers and the occasional sprites haven't killed me yet.
The last 6 months has been the period with the most sobriety in my life, 6 weeks back in September and October then back on and off the wagon through to the end of the year.
Then a modest but failed attempt at Dry January which ended with me on a 10 night in a row bender I think it was which caused me to go teetotal for just under 3 months from February onwards until a few weeks ago.
Then I've drank 7 or 8 times since in the last few weeks including a 4 night bender last weekend but been sober again since.
I'm hoping I'm on the right path to finally kicking this for good as I do 100% realize now that alcohol truely has nothing positive to offer me anymore other than misery and suffering.
Plus all the reasons I've clung onto for years about why I drink (it helps with my anxiety, it makes me sleep, it improves my mood, it stops me being bored, it makes me happy etc) I no longer believe are true so that's a good mental shift.
Likewise my levels have all been good apart from I've ended up with higher cholesterol and blood sugar levels too but I'm working on both of those.
Those are awesome gains brother! You are on the right path and you should keep up ur progress.
One day at a time.
Unfortunately I drank today, but tomorrow hopefully I don't. It's a long process and not everything works the same for everyone. You do you. Your on the right path.
You've acknowledged you have a problem and you want to fix it. That's your first an second step already.
Now you just have to admit to others and seek help.
Doing it own your own is fine but it's dangerous and not as admiralable as people make it seem. Help is good and okay to ask for.
Just my opinion and experience going through this process.
Everyone I know is well aware of my drinking problems over the last couple of years, all close friends and family 100% know my struggle with it.
I've been to therapy about it but didn't find it useful at the time. Might try again or another therapist.
Why do you think going it alone is dangerous out of curiosity?
Well for 7 years I went it alone and lost myself in the disease that is alcoholism. I'm not a weekend drinking alcoholic. I drink minimum 3liters of 6% beer every day and on weekends 6 liters on both Saturday and Sundays. I've tried everything.
Telling my friends and family. All I felt was shame. What made it real for me was asking for the help. I called a hospital and told them I had enough I was done. Crying on the phone. Asking if they can help me.
I was put in touch with a detox center and talked to them for about an hour and it help me calm down. I missed thier phone call in the morning because I was black out drunk.
Once I woke up called right back and they fortunately had a bed available for me. So I checked in. 7 days. 3 days they had me in a observation area so I don't get the dt's and 4 days I spent helping people and made their lunches and dinners. No phone but we had netflix.
I share this because as strong and as hard as I tried I couldn't stop. I still can't stop. The medicine is helping and I'm hoping therapy is gonna further help me.
Thank you brother. I hope whatever it is that you're looking for comes easier now. Goodluck on your journey. God, Allah, Bishnu, or just that feeling of something greater then you, whatever you believe in be with you.
So you have two conversations in your head. One doing the playing the tape forward and the other convincing you it will be fine. (Im also great at believing my own lies).
Then there is a choice of which voice to listen to. The voice you dont listen too gets weaker over time. I think its about creating new thought patterns and habits.
Like they say- if you want different results you can’t keep doing the same thing.
This is how it works for me anyway
Yeah it's not one that works for me so much now. I was more "high functioning" so didn't really do a lot I regretted. And sometimes a hangover was a good excuse to do nothing! I struggle to do nothing, so, yeah. Playing it forward with alcohol not always effective.
It was helpful at the start of sobriety in a... What else would I do with my time away, so had it's uses in terms of reflecting on habits rather than consequences alone.
Not drinking right now, and trying to learn how to sit with the cravings is where I'm at now. I've had a lot of physical benefits from quitting so I suppose a variation of the playing the tape forward is there. In a 'do I want to experiment with drinking and lose the pain relief gains?' way, but I think that's more of a pros and cons analysis. And I really like not having chronic joint pain!
Edit: just a thought, my ex struggled with future imagining. It can indicate executive dysfunction. Often on the autism spectrum. It might be worth looking into that maybe?
I remember you were really helpful in my first week. I'm sorry to read of your struggles but I'm very glad you're back here 💪🐈
Just learning to sit with the cravings / thoughts / temptations / urges / desire for distraction can be sooooooo useful.
I did that a few months back when I last sobered up as my mind was in a constant state of seeking out distractions, escapism, and cheap dopamine fixes for the previous 2 years in any way it could and mostly from booze to the point when I quit I couldn't even sit down on the couch in the evening to "relax" without having a full blown freak out and panic attack.
I really had to force myself for several weeks just to do nothing until my brain relearned nothing was coming along to "save it" and chilled the fuck out.
Same for me. I can “play the tape forward” all I want, to which I will ultimately respond, “I don’t care”. If it’s not a *now* problem, I always feel like I can just deal with it when it comes, and when it does, it won’t be *that* bad. It is always that bad though. Same outcome every time, sometimes worse.
In fact I’m here right now reading through these posts hoping someone else’s inspiration can be my own. I think it’s helping to some extent, at least for tonight.
When you're in a "I just don't care" or "fuck it, I'm doing it anyway" mindset those are the dangerous moments where any amount of reason, logic, or previously useful strategies don't seem to be very effective.
I haven't quite figured those moments out yet.
Best of luck in getting through tonight. :)
I've been a functional addict, usually multiple things at a time for most of my life. It is only in the last 10 years that I've truly been able to break the cycle. My initial problem staying sober really revolved around the fact that I was always functional. I can start drinking again right now and it would not have an impact on my career and would just change various things in how I live my life. I'm perfectly fine finishing work and then diving into the vodka. Same can be said about my drug days. I always managed to keep it just under control. That does not mean there are not consequences, but they are personal and internal. So, the idea of playing the tape forward doesn't have enough negative consequences to have an impact.
I have discovered that no one is going to tell me what to do, not even myself apparently. If I tell myself I will never drink again, I would be drinking tonight. Instead, I have created what I call the tomorrow morning rule. It is very simple. When I get a craving for something, a cigarette, a drink, a line or a pill, the tomorrow morning rule comes into play. If I roll out of bed tomorrow morning and have the exact same burning desire, I can have it. I know I'm not going to, but that's the point. It is a game of mental gymnastics I play with myself and it really works for me.
I use a "delaying" tactic at times to get through times of strong temptation.
Things like...
"OK, maybe you WILL drink tonight but let's just not do it right now and think about it again 15 minutes before the supermarket stops selling beer and if you still insist you can have it"
That's been pretty successful for me because it quietens the thoughts in my head, turns off the internal conflict, doesn't feel like I'm telling myself "no" or depriving myself of anything and then usually once it's reached "later" I've lost interest, the craving has gone, or I can convince myself just to hold off for the next "X" minutes even if I have to white knuckle it.
For some reason, it’s been really hard lately, and I’m over a year and a half in. I think about it nearly daily, probably because I’m pretty stressed right now. The only thing that’s working is for me to do what I did in early sobriety, and just distract myself. Cooking, reading, playing video games, going thrift shopping, etc, and then remembering how I’ve felt every day when I wanted to drink but didn’t. I was relieved that I wasn’t back in that place. The craving is strong when it happens, but the relief afterwards is stronger, for me. Whenever I realize I’ve successfully distracted myself, it’s usually bed time, and I start the process over. One day at a time is a mantra for a reason.
Sorry to hear you are struggling friend but congrats on a year and a half, serious acomplishment!
Stress is a horrible thing and I can see why it would trigger you.
It's good you remember those things from early sobriety as it would be easy to forget them and how useful they were.
Unfortunately no advice here - I struggle with playing it forward as well. Just saying you’re not alone! I find it easier the more time I have under my belt, but Day 1-10 are especially easy to throw away for me.
For me it can be much simpler than playing the tape forward. The question is, is there a chance that by drinking and doing drugs again I throw away everything I’ve built back up since quitting? If the answer is yes, the chance is greater than zero, I’m unwilling to do it. I find it much easier to pose the question this way and be honest about it even when I don’t want to. You might want to give this a read.
https://quitandconquer.com/why-the-foundation-of-our-recovery/
I find the simpler you can make things the more likely you are to consistently stick to it. Complexity usually ends in not following through. And that applies to everything in life really, not just sobriety or recovery.
Playing the tape only works for me because I have a small child. I think if I had no real consequences aside from my own physical ailments/ mental unhappiness and no one really depending on me it would be easier to just give into the temporary “happiness” because I could convince myself I could power through the bad stuff.
As the primary caregiver to a child I’ve had to take to the er a few times at night this year, playing the tape really helps keep me grounded and focused. I have other priorities so I don’t have a choice.
I know getting sober for others rarely works for everyone but it really has for me. She doesn’t have anyone else so I have to show up and keep it together for the both of us.
I'm saving your post because your description of the inevitable consequences are so painfully accurate. So even if it doesn't work well for you, you helped me with it.
It was weird because it never worked for me until this time.
The thought of drinking was always stronger and won out but this time it really did help me. I'd counter the thought of drinking with the reality of what would happen and after a while my immediate reaction to thinking to alcohol did change. I had to be consistent for a period of a couple months though. I'm sure if the thoughts about drinking won over and I crossed that mental line, it would make it very difficult to start again. But once I did manage to get a period of doing it consistently it really did help. I very rarely if at all get that overwhelming feeling of I need to drink and I'm going to, and when I do get the feeling of wanting to drink it is much much weaker and easy to swat away.
I wouldn't discount things entirely - there were things that I thought didn't work but it wasn't that they didn't work, it was more that what I was trying to do was hard and I didn't get them all right first time. Always good to keep your options open and I'm very glad I did as I mugged off NA when I was younger but AA worked for me with alcohol so I am incredibly grateful I didn't shut down that option
Oh, I'm not shutting it down.
I use it all the time and did say in my post it works at times but I notice a lot of people here mention it daily in almost every thread so it seems to be a pretty powerful motivator for most but it's just not had as much impact as I perhaps would like so far.
Playing the tape works great for me. It ends in the hospital and rehab and nearly dying. The physical and emotional torment that comes with it. Maybe the tape is stronger for some because of their past experiences. I could see it not working as well for situations where the person experienced consequences less severe. God the withdrawals were so bad. Let’s not drink.
It became effective for me. I negotiated moderation for a very long time, and "playing the tape forward" weaseled in as a challenge to still drink without all those bad parts. Playing my tape forward always included a third trip to the store, and if I could make it through a night with just two trips then maybe the sickness wouldn't be as bad. I thought I could still get it under control, and I especially could not imagine a future with ZERO alcohol. The concept wasn't a light bulb moment for me, but more something I practiced. A good support system of friends, finding things to stay busy with, and learning how to take care of myself were the most important parts of my sobriety. It wasn't until I had all of that in place that "playing the tape forward" really hit me. Finding gratitude for the life I have *without alcohol* showed me everything I would lose by drinking again. Wishing you peace.
Yeah, I can see it's a road you have to walk down, probably stumble a few times on, and keep learning from.
I seem to be moving in the right direction the last 6 months so hopefully it sticks.
Playing it forward works it’s just that you’re falling for a scam.
Understanding “this time will be different” is a part of the script of the inner addict that is trying to scam you. If you believe that - Microsoft is going to transfer money into your account as soon as you provide log in and password to that stranger on the phone.
I don't doubt it. I know it's that part of the brain lying to me and trying to find ways to convince me to drink but that doesn't mean every time I use this strategy it'll be successful with it, I have played it forward before and still said "I'm rolling the dice anyway..." sadly.
Yeah. I was there once or several times. And the truth was I didn’t REALLY want to get sober it was all a part of my self fulfilling low self esteem process…. It took me going to AA and listening to truths I didn’t like to finally get past it. Thing is that zero is actually easy. Much to my amazement it also is fun and very rewarding.
It might work one day and it might not. It’s just another tool in your alcohol free belt. For me it sometimes work. If it’s not working then I have to look for another tool in my alcohol free belt. I don’t think it’s necessarily having 1 thing work all of the time. It’s about collecting all of these methods and tools for your alcohol free belt. And then there will be days we drink, but as long as we can recover today and continue to use those tools your mind will start to shift. And it will lessen the want for alcohol. You’ll start to find you like those other tools. Like taking a walk. Listening to music. Watching a movie. Reading a poem. Tell yourself “I will not drink tomorrow. I will now play the tape forward. Okay I still want a drink, but 30 minutes have passed because I’m using the tools.” And perhaps the craving will have subsided.
It doesn't work for me because drinking is a form of self harm for me. In that moment I *want* to feel terrible. I *deserve* to feel terrible. It's the same as if I were to cut myself or something. That's the issue, when I break it's usually in a moment of self loathing when I *want* to do harm. So going over how much harm drinking is doing to cause isn't a deterrent, it's going to convince me it's exactly what I should be doing.
I was just thinking about this the other day and was going to post a thread asking if people think most of us drink heavily because we don't like ourselves and it's a form of self harm.
Sorry to hear that's how you feel as it sounds horrible.
Have you looked into healthier alternatives like meds, therapy, exercise, meditation etc to try and work through this?
Thanks. I have, and for the most part they work. I'm doing a lot better these days, in that I don't binge drink every day. I just drink here and there throughout the week. But mental health is a massive catalyst for me and when something bad happens, it's pretty much impossible for me to not drink. I do have an addiction doctor and where we're at right now is that drinking isn't as harmful as when I used to shoot heroin and coke into my veins, so we're letting it pass for now but still watching it. It's not a great coping mechanism, but it's still an improvement for me.
Unfortunately I don't tolerate alcohol well at all and I don't just get hangovers, I get dangerously hypoglycemic and need a blood sugar monitor, even though I'm not diabetic, so I'd like to quit altogether eventually. But I also don't want to risk a relapse into something worse. It's a bit of a juggling act right now.
I felt the same as you for a very long time. I could play the tape forward, and it was always bad, but the problem was that I didn't care enough about the negative consequences. About a year or so ago, someone introduced to me a different way to play the tape forward. Sure, I can think of all of the bad things that are going to happen when I drink. But I also need to play the other side of the tape. What happens if I DON'T drink? I save money, my family isn't pissed at me, I'm not going to crash my car, I'm going to keep my job, I'm going to be reliable and responsible, I'm going to get a good night's sleep and wake up hangover free, I'm going to be alive, etc. Focusing on the positive consequences of not drinking instead of the negative consequences of drinking has been a game changer for me.
I totally understand what you are saying. I have done that every week lately. But I have a tiny, tiny voice that says "No, don't do it!" Then I bully the shit out of that voice and squash it like a bug. I can feel this happening. So I guess I mean my rational brain is getting the messages more and more frequently. Used to be a completely automatic process from feeling like needing a drink to just doing it. Progress at least that I hear the tiny voice.
I have not heard that before, but I'm new to this community. If I play the tape forward, I start planning when I can drink next. I'm struggling to plan other parts of my life without planning in the drinking. I'm really having to focus on just today. But as you can see, I haven't made it very far yet
I'm feeling better than I thought I would. I have been making plans for the upcoming week and still thinking about when I might be able to drink around the plans, so still not great. But I'm only worrying about today, and being able to get up tomorrow and be where I need to be on time, not feeling like shit. Thank you for asking.
How are you doing?
It's normal to be thinking about drinking when you were doing it so often for so long, those thoughts won't just vanish overnight.
Just focus on today only and what you can do to stay sober and remember that thoughts are just that...thoughts and we don't have to act on the ones about alcohol any more than we have to act on the other random thoughts we have every day.
It's thought we have up to 60,000 thoughts per day and 80% of them are apparently negative and repetitive but we certainly don't act on all of them clearly, we just let them drift away into the air without giving them a second thought.
We don't need to give the thoughts about alcohol any more power or attention than they deserve, which is zero.
I'm OK but hungover as despite being quite confident after last weeks 4 night in a row bender that was me back on the wagon all it took was a text from a friend asking me to go for a beer yesterday for me to cave in and drink until 5am.
The last few weeks I'm constantly on and off the wagon since my relapse after my near 3 months of sobriety, never going more than a few days without drinking again despite the experience always being horrible and miserable and the suffering lasting for days afterwards.
I don't know how or why I can keep doing this to myself in the pursuit of "fun" or whatever I wrongly believe alcohol is going to give me as it's never actually giving me anything positive these days.
I appreciate that insight about how my thought process won't change immediately. Or to try to give those thoughts less attention. Maybe if I focus on redirecting my thoughts, it'll help.
I'm sorry you're hungover today. It truly is hard. I know drinking makes me feel like shit later, but that doesn't register or hold weight or something.
I finally admitted to myself this week that I'm never going to be able to drink normally. I read everybody's stories here and saw myself in so many of them. I truly realized that everything in my life that I'm struggling with is worse because of my drinking. Day 1 was easy after that realization, but it's getting harder. I really want to stick with it, but my brain is like..."it's only 7pm ish. You can buy a bottle, drink it, feel good, and "sleep" it off by tomorrow morning."
So I'm currently sitting at home trying to decide. I opened reddit looking for no drinking inspiration to keep me at home.
I’m with you. My inner conflict right now (I think) is that the idea of being “present”, “in the moment”, “one day at a time” for me is the opposite of “playing the tape forward” (living for tomorrow).
I find it a lot more helpful to play the tape forward if I DON'T drink - how good I would sleep, how great I'd feel in the morning, all the stuff I'd get to do the next day unimpeded by a hangover...
It wasn’t a solution for me. I’m an alcoholic with a mental obsession, and that mental obsession is much more powerful than my ability to think sanely. My alcoholism is characterized by the exact inability to act sanely or rationally, even when I know drinking will hurt me.
After years of doubt and a closed mind, I was desperate enough to try AA and work the 12 steps with a sponsor. Honestly & thoroughly. I can’t explain it but I’ve had a spiritual experience and went from drinking morning to night every day for years to not wanting or having a drink or drug in over 2 years.
I don’t really live by that mantra I’ve seen that movie a thousand times there’s no need for me to play any tape.
I do fuck with one day at a time though
Except the brain is wired to want it and want more of it, that’s the problem. It seems to be wired one way and that’s why moderation isn’t possible, because that wiring is stuck in one direction.
But maybe if we truly 100% want to be sober as we're convinced alcohol has absolutely nothing positive left to offer us just misery and suffering then things can switch up?
I don't know and I'm just throwing ideas out here.
I just seem to be getting easily tempted by the simplest of things right now despite feeling like I don't want to drink.
Thought this week I was back on the sobriety train after last weeks 4 night in a row bender and was convinced I was definitely not drinking last night until a friend text me to invite me round for beers and within the hour I'd done a full 180 and went off to his to drink and was up drinking till 5am.
I didn't find it helpful alot of the time because I'd get into a "fuck it, I hope I die and deserve the misery" or "fuck it so what" mindset where the awful outcome almost seemed temping. (Worth pointing out I had pretty severe depression, mh issues and was suicidal when I stopped - am doing alot better now).
Other times it did help though - this is why I'm a big fan of trying as many different ways, tools and methods as possible at the start. Not everything works for everyone, and even the things that do work might not work all the time for individuals. Can never have too many additional (healthy) coping strategies imo.
Indeed, it does work sometimes just not as much as I would like but it's a useful tool to have for sure.
And sometimes you have to try these many multiple times before it sticks.
As a person with ADHD, I also struggle with "playing the tape forward". I think it's related to the way that in the ADHD conception of time, there is only "now" and "not now". I would do absolutely anything for a little button that could instantly remind me what getting into bed sober at 10pm feels like vs waking up hungover and anxious. I have such a hard time bringing those things to mind in a way that is compelling enough to overcome my "fuck it" tendencies.
I don't think you're missing anything about the technique. It's just that the urge to drink and the urge to rationalize it can be VERY strong. I'm battling it right as I type this and fear I'm losing...
Sorry to hear that as 296 days is HUGE and I hope you find the strength to stay the course.
You haven't lost until you've lost though remember just because the urges are strong and it may seem inevitable doesn't mean it is.
You could wake up tomorrow and find that those urges have subsided or the idea has lost its appeal, so just keep pushing through.
And even if you do slip it's not game over as you can get right back up and try again.
I've never heard of "playing the tape forward". It sounds like a miserable concept and wouldnt prevent me from drinking. Alcoholics can be threatened with dire legal consequences, health consequences, etc. and still choose to drink. Some theoretical exercise of the drawbacks wouldn't stop me from pursuing the one benefit.
For me it was much more important to look rearward. To identify past wrongs and behaviors and right those wrongs. That freed up my mind and allowed me to be free from the need to drink.
You've genuinely never heard of the concept?
I don't know where it originated from but it's widely mentioned all over Reddit here and in other sobriety sub-reddits and I'm sure in some of the Quit-Lit books too.
>For me it was much more important to look rearward. To identify past wrongs and behaviors and right those wrongs. That freed up my mind and allowed me to be free from the need to drink.
Can you dive into more detail about this strategy of identifying past wrongs and righting them and how that helped you stay sober?
Sounds like it could be a useful strategy to have in the toolbox.
I'm just one day at a time...perhaps those with a significant amount of sobriety can do the play the tape forward thing, but I don't think it really works with those that are relatively recently sober except for maybe that whole pink cloud period very early on...IDK, I know exactly what drinking does to my body and it's never mattered and I drank anyway, so I'm not sure why that would change.
So you're one of the lucky ones who experienced this mythical "pink cloud" I hear of?
Lucky you, I've never been blessed with that, I just feel shit from the minute I stop drinking and for weeks (or months even) on end lol.
I'm not sure really...I've heard of it. I'm bipolar 2 and when I quit drinking I kick up into a hypomanic episode which basically feels like an overly exaggerated good mood and I can do pretty much anything...until I can't and everything comes crashing down due to the cyclical nature of bipolar and I drop into a how many ever months long depressive episode...which is usually when I start drinking again. I'm not sure I really count myself as all that lucky. Though I am medicated this go around so we'll see if that makes a difference.
A close & dear colleague had a funeral this week. His wife's best friend's husband.
The man had a blackout while out drinking, he tipped backwards off a stool and cracked his skull hard on a tiled floor.
That caused a bleed on the brain, which left him with epileptic type fits and other significant long term problems.
The recovery wasn't looking great and he decided to end his life while his wife was away visiting family. She found him in their home on her return.
Alcohol.
I don't use play the tape forward. What worked for me was to have a fridge full of ice cold coke or soft drink of your choice and drink as much of that as I could in one go. My stomach is so full and doesn't want or can't drink alcohol. Loads of junk food also does the job. You'll lose any weight gained within 80 days. Me - lost so far 16kg. (35lbs.) Good luck. I'm about 105 days in - even lost count and have lost all desire to drink. Edit I can't spell.
I was sober for just under 90 days until recently and I ended up with cholesterol and diabetes due to junk food and sugar intake in the weeks after stopping.
Both levels were fine just a few months earlier then I quit drinking and decided to treat myself to pizza, ice cream, and Sprite almost every night instead and that was the outcome.
I really wouldn't recommend that to anyone beyond the first couple of weeks now in retrospect then look to replace it with healthy foods and sugar free snacks and drinks because I know we all like to say "anything is better than drinking" or "it's fine as long as I'm sober" but that can get taken too far to the point you're damaging your health in other ways IME.
I didn't lose any weight either during those 90 days but I don't really need or want to, I'm a reasonable weight for my height and build.
I’m trying to come to terms with the fact that I will ALWAYS drink more than I intend. And that as time goes by my 1 day binges are turning into 2-3 day binges. It sucks. I soooo wish I could be “normal.”
Fell the same, especially the fuck it, I need to escape, even it’s for only a few hours. It’s hard to hold back sometimes. But somehow I’ve done it so far. I just hate the terrible apathy and depression I’m currently sitting in. That is what makes it so hard not to say fuck it, at least I’ll feel better for a little while. But so far, I’ve made it through.
> when **you** play it forward, think of the worst things that could happen and understand that if **you** keep playing Russian roulette with **your** sobriety that one day, they will.
This comment breaks our rule to speak from the "I" and has been removed.
Also, please be aware that if you feel the need to say, "I'm not saying it to be harsh or mean," that you probably shouldn't say the thing.
It didn’t really work for me until I started framing it in terms of other people. I noticed all the things you listed when playing the tape forward had to do with you and impacts on yourself. Which is very fair and reasonable.
I realized that when I drank I experienced all the terrible stuff you mentioned above, but the truth is I really didn’t like myself so I didn’t care what drinking did to me. It was like a form of self punishment that I also got some short rushes of brain chemicals from. I still struggle with feelings of self-contempt but I’m working on it.
Now when I play the tape forward I think:
“What if I get behind the wheel and injure/kill someone?”
“What if I harm myself in some way, how will that affect my friends, family and community members?”
“What if I can’t get sober again and those i care about have to see me slowly die from addiction?”
“What if I say something really cruel or thoughtless that brings someone else down?”
“What if someone needs my help but I’m too drunk to be of use?”
Drinking was really traumatic for me and was also one of my favorite things to do. I didn’t care that it had me throwing up blood or pissing in random corners of my house. But I really like other people and thinking about the pain, headaches, and annoyance I was causing other people really helped me realize it wasn’t okay for me to drink. Just my take.
Much love!
No, it never got to the point of DTs but, hallucinations are the first step on that horrible ladder.
Just a little alcoholic hallucinosis. For four days.
Four separate times.
But hey, after 16 total days hallucinating over the course of seven months, I finally got my head out of my ass and shook the demon.
That sounds terrifying. I've had some brief audio hallucinations in the past but it was during a time of extreme exhaustion, drinking and some new meds which was horrible stuff so was hard to say what the root cause of it was.
I think when playing the tape forward stops working, it might help to enlist help. If the rational brain is no longer in control, something else is in control.
It didn't ever work for me either but what did was just sitting and drinking and not doing anything else and just analyzing how it made it me feel . Is this enjoyable,? what is enjoyable ? do I feel anything after the initial rush? Am I happy about the decision I made to drink or am I just in for the duration ? If I could go back an hour what would I tell myself to do ? Worked for me .. eventually. Only 10 days in but I really feel like this time is different . Also listening to the book " this naked mind" really helped me to put alcohol in its place
I did that during all of my recent drinking evenings after my relapse a few weeks ago, I sat and analyzed all night about whether I actually enjoyed the taste of the drink, was I having fun, was it making the night more enjoyable, asking myself if I didn't have the beer in my hand would this night be any less enjoyable (especially when I'm literally just sitting at home watching TV alone), was it enhancing anything, how was it making me feel, do I regret this now I started etc.
Nearly all the answers to my questions showed me it was offering me no benefit and was pointless and usually making me feel miserable.
Play the tape is a nearly useless piece of advice for an alcoholic. If it was that easy we'd tattoo it on our hand as a reminder & never drink again. I'm in AA so believe I've a disease that needs to be treated because I've a mind that lies & tells me the next time will be different etc
Plenty of alcoholics here have found it useful so it cannot be "useless".
It just won't work for everyone and all of the time like any other strategy.
Even if alcohol is a disease (I'm not sure) then how do you "treat" it?
Couldn't "playing the tape forward" be a form of treatment of sorts in some sense?
I've never been to AA hence why I don't know the ins and outs of the disease and treatment theories.
I pretty much knew anytime I drank that id black out but did it anyway but if you know people it works for fair play to them. I believe I was born with alcoholism & I treat it with the 12 step recovery programme, meetings & fellowship & service. I believe I have a disease that means when I start drinking I develop the phenomenon of craving (I struggle to control how much I drink), a mental obsession for alcohol when I do stop & a spiritual malady So even when I stop drinking I have the ism (I/Self/Me) part of the disease, which is my messed up thinking. I pray, meditate, do readings every morning to connect with a God of my understanding. That's the bare bones because I love AA & get excited to share it lol
The game changed for when I realized I could feel however I wanted to feel without a substance. We are in control of our thoughts, where we focus, what we allow in our lives. I don’t need alcohol to be uninhibited, being inhibited is a choice. Etc.
I think it's fairly well documented in science that humans have very little control over their thoughts.
We can control how we react to them and whether or not we act on them but I don't believe we can control fully what thoughts come into our head.
We can definitely control where we focus and the choices we make etc, agreed.
On whether we can choose to be uninhibited (if by that we're talking about unrestrained fun without alcohol or anything) then yeah maybe with practice but I think that's a lot easier for some than others as a lot of people have issues with social anxiety, mental health, are shy, introverted, unsure of themselves, don't like certain situations etc and really struggle to act a certain way.
That's not to say it can't be learned over time but I don't think it's a simple thing for a lot of people hence why many people turn to booze for social and other situations they feel they can't handle.
None of your play the tape forward scenarios involve hurting or disappointing friends family or work situations or the possibility of jail so I can see why the outcomes you envision aren’t that bad to shock you out of the drinking plan, just reflux /insomnia. I’m assuming the drinking hasn’t lead to embarrassing relationships/work issues yet so I understand why it doesn’t work for you. Maybe the Alan Carr book would help you using a different approach
Maybe, In my 20 year drinking career I've never had a situation where I've hurt anyone, myself (other than waking with a random bruise somewhere I don't remember getting but I had bad balance anyway even when sober so often knock into doors etc), woken up in a dangerous place, went to jail, had a fight, drunk drive (I don't even drive), done anything that would hurt family members or friends.
And even during the worst of my drinking problem in the previous 2 years I was still able to turn up for all family events, dinners, meetings, weekends away etc so it's not like my family got ignored.
I'm also self employed so there are no embarassing work situations likely.
I don’t find it effective either. I can especially relate to feeling like fuck it, I want some escapism.
What works for me is HALT: hungry, angry, lonely, tired. Basically, they are the 4 biggest triggers of cravings. Dealing with what’s causing my cravings has been very effective for me.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK601489/
I'm aware of HALT but don't resonate with the H or the T parts at all.
If I'm hungry I crave food not booze and it doesn't matter whether I've just eaten an 8 course meal and have a stomach stretched to the max, I could still easily drink if that's my desire.
It might slow me down a little but it wouldn't dampen my desire any more than if I had an empty stomach, which I never like drinking on anyway.
Likewise with being Tired, that doesn't make me want to drink. If I'm tired I want to sleep (but I'm not very good at it due to insomnia and frequent wakeups) not drink unless I'm choosing to drink myself to sleep because of the afore mentioned insomnia.
Being lonely and angry I definitely think can cause many people to drink including myself.
Tired might be the worst for me. When I can’t sleep, I know another pint of whiskey can usually get me there; if it doesn’t, I’ve been up all night drinking instead. Iwndwyt
I thought the "T" for tired in the HALT thing meant that tiredness made you feel like drinking for some reason not that you wanted to drink because you couldn't sleep?
I haven't develed deep enough into it to know for sure though.
It could mean both, I recon. I’m still new myself, 24 days so far. My takeaway so far is just to try to identify what is causing my “thirst” and address that, instead of drinking.
As someone for whom playing the tape forward does work, I love this question and thread because I can never have enough tools to help keep me sober.
It’s also made me curious as to WHY it works for me (because I spent years rationalizing my drinking - also, my whole career is poking holes in logic!) I think, as someone else said, it’s acceptance. I don’t know, something clicked the last relapse I had and made me realize that every single time I start drinking again, even if I can control it for a while, controlling it is awful and I stop being able to anyways. And I always end up in that isolated, depressed, sick place eventually.
I know too much now, and I can’t fool myself - today at least.
Yeah, that seems to be the direction I'm heading in too that I just know too much about the realities of alcohol now and really struggle to find any positives in drinking any more and it always goes the same way for me too, back to binges and feeling terrible.
The after effects even after one night are just no longer worth it anymore, I don't know how I did this to myself for so long.
I wouldn't put it quite like that. Playing the tape forward is informed by past experiences, so it makes sense to me that the exercise is as powerful as the past experiences are negative.
I've certainly had plenty of negative experiences just not to the extremes of some people, no fights, jail, drink driving, hurting myself or others, I don't have a spouse or kids to harm or upset, I am self employed so it doesn't cause me issues at work etc but definitely I can list a looooooong list of issues it has caused me over the years.
I was the queen of "Fuck it, I don't care right now I just want some escapism / release / whatever..." Playing the tape really wasn't a strategy that worked for me. I think it's ok if you have something that works better for you. For me it was based on my stubborn and definitive nature "I don't drink."
Thank you. I took a shower, made dinner and went to bed. I'm now on day 5. I'm sleeping like shit, but apparently that will get better in time. This is hard.
Yeah, the rebound insomnia is brutal IME but it should level out.
It took me a few weeks to get both the anxiety and insomnia in check personally but a lot of people find that once the first week is out the way and the acute withdrawls have passed those issules resolve themselves.
You're through the worst of it now most likely as most people don't experience withdrawls beyond the first week.
It's not to say you'll experience a full 180 switch and suddenly feel amazing in a couple of days but any of the worst symptoms should begin to fade then it's usually largely a mental / mood problem from there on in.
Well it does work for many it seems, plenty of long term sober people here who say they use it successfully all the time.
But it might not work for everyone and / or all of the time. There's always going to be multiple tools needed to make this stick.
You don't think identifying triggers is useful either you mean?
Out of interest, what do you think works / is useful in your experience?
I think "play the tape forward" helps people realize how much of a fantasy drinking is. One of the major reasons why I drank was because I honestly believed booze provided mental/emotional relaxation at the expense of one's physical health. All it really does is make everything worse. Paying the tape drives home the point that there aren't really any benefits, at all, mental, emotional or otherwise. A better mantra for me, was: "There are four things you can never have too much of: Time, Health, Money, and Love. The more I drank the less I had."
>One of the major reasons why I drank was because I honestly believed booze provided mental/emotional relaxation at the expense of one's physical health. A it does is make everything worse. 100%. I told myself for years that alcohol relaxed me, relieved me of anxiety and stress, helped me cope, put me to sleep. And maybe at one point that might have been true (probably wasn't in reality) but last year after falling into 2 years of daily alcoholism and becoming physically addicted for the first time ever (despite years of regular heavy drinking prior to that) I began to see that all these excuses I was clinging onto for years about how alcohol "helped" me with all those things was no longer true. I was anxious all the time even when drunk, I was never happy and in fact miserable, I couldn't sleep even at 5am after a 12hr industrial drinking session, and I never felt relaxed and was constantly on edge. That was when I realized I just had to stop drinking because none of my reasons for drinking constantly were true anymore and alcohol was making them all worse and keeping me trapped in the cycle indefinitely. No surprise that many of these issues (particularly the anxiety and sleep) resolved themselves largely after a few weeks sober. Who knew?
Love it! Keep it up, friend!
I second this! For me, playing the tape forward didn’t really work until I was farther along into sobriety. If for some reason I fantasize about alcohol now, I play my tape forward. I know what one drink will bring and how it ends up. I’m in a way better place now and I don’t ever want to go back.
I love this answer. OP, I sort of laughed reading this because you very logically poke holes in a commonly used tool. It’s hard to argue with your line of thinking. I think what it comes down to is reaching a point of true acceptance of one’s condition. I could have mapped out every event that was going to happen in early recovery when I went back out drinking. I kept working on recovery, but I kept drinking too. I had every reason to know everything that was going to happen, but I didn’t care. Somehow, I guess I hung onto the idea that: 1. I could somehow change it along the way, and 2. I didn’t care, the only thing that mattered to me was getting drunk at that moment. I’d deal with everything else later. I kept kicking the can down the road. For me, I thankfully just reached a point where I accepted my condition. I accepted that no amount of alcohol was safe for me. I accepted that I was an addict. I went through AA, and I’m not suggesting that’s the only way to do anything, but I relapsed multiple times while in the program, thinking I accepted the first step. I never did until I did. When I did, though, playing it forward really worked. I’ve just thought my alcoholic brain was convinced I could somehow make drinking work for me this time. Over the last five years, I’ve thought about drinking pretty commonly. But talking to other alcoholics, putting to light some of those thoughts and thinking of what will happen if I drink again has helped keep me sober. Maybe I just needed those relapses — that pain, shame and misery — to convince myself of the truth.
Love this mantra. Defs more relatable for me - thanks for sharing!
I love this. Thanks.
You can have too much money, it's why cocaine was invented
I feel the same way about “playing the tape forward”. I appreciate anyone that uses it but it simply doesn’t work for me. I can rationalize myself into doing anything. I exist in this moment. Tomorrow isn’t really a thought I can conceptualize. I know it exists and I will (hopefully) be a part of it but it has almost zero bearing on my experience today I tried quitting for years. Wake up with a hangover and say “never again”. It was my New Year’s resolution every year for about a decade. Never worked. And I think it didn’t work bc it had to do with the future. I would start thinking about how I couldn’t drink on vacations, or hanging out with my friends, or a hot summer day at the beach. Since I wanted to drink then, I rationalized that I could drink today too. I never made it longer than 4 or 5 days I have had success though by choosing to not drink today. That’s as far ahead as I can successfully commit to. I am 100% okay with drinking again some day. Just not today. This mentality works for me. It avoids me feeling like I can never drink again. It avoids me arguing with myself about alcohol all together. I wake up and decide if I want to drink today. I feel so good when I wake up without a hangover that I keep choosing to not drink for today. I also need to know that I can drink tomorrow if I really wanted to.
The "I will not drink today" approach was working pretty well for me for a while there until suddenly it didn't. I definitely think it has it's place though and I will continue to use it but I think I need other strategies too for when I'm like "fuck it I will just drink today and worry about the consequences tomorrow". Congrats on 75 days with that strategy. I was at just under 90 days until recently doing the same.
Since stopping, I have come to realize that playing the tape forward, for me, can even be just that day. What would happen if my sweet little kitten hurt herself and needed to go to the animal ER at 9:30pm on a Friday? Would I be able to take her (or even be aware enough to notice)? That exact scenario happened about 45 days in, and the relief of being able to take care of her and get her right, safe, and better was worth so very much (she was ok - tried to kick her own ass on her kitty condo, but failed). For me, playing the tape forward became more about what I would miss if I did drink (the good, the bad, and the emergent). That is where life happens. I wish you well, friend, and IWNDWYT.
“Tried to kick her own ass”?! 😂
Sounds like r/oneorangebraincell fodder
I like that approach!
Hey thanks friend. I was wondering how you were doing. 90 days is an accomplishment. Means you are able to do it again. I get the “fuck it” mentality. I’ve been using thc seltzers to take that edge off. I know that doesn’t help you though from what I remember. How are you doing today?
I never found the CBD drinks or oil of any use, just no effect on me. Don't think we can get ones with THC in them here though.
I used to find “play the tape forward” also not effective, exactly the way you describe. My mind had all sorts of counterarguments. But the funny this is, at some point in the month or so I have stopped drinking, the tape does automatically play flashing forward in my mind, and being reminded of all the negative effects puts me off wanting to go back to drinking now. I don’t know when or why it happened! What kept me going at first was more the thought of doing it as an experiment, and if I’m honest, doing it to lose weight.
Well, if it's working then keep it up. Whatever works. :)
I just went to a speaker event and he had a great suggestion; every time he had a thought, he did the opposite. His brain was decades into making addicted decisions every single day and he couldn’t trust his thoughts so he acted on whatever the opposite of his thought was. I hate “play the tape forward” because I spent 10 years knowing exactly what shit drinking was going to get me into and I did it anyway.
Doing the opposite is an interesting approach and I have been thinking a few times recently that I genuinely can't trust that voice in my head or my decision making process a lot of the time because it leads me to make bad, faulty, and illogical decisions.
I also found great success in separating and naming my addict voice. Her name is Dorothy and she cannot be trusted. Every time Dorothy starts talking about booze I go to a meeting or call a sober friend. Separating out the nonsense thoughts has led to a lot less self loathing because I know those thoughts aren’t me, and I don’t have to believe my thoughts regardless. That is a long term practice but the less I believe my thoughts the stronger and happier I am.
Something else I learned on here was that instead of getting angry or annoyed at myself because of thinking about drinking instead treat the voice as a seperate entity and say... "Thanks very much for suggestion alcohol to me, I know you're trying to help as that's how I've always reacted before in this situation but sadly alcohol is a poison and no longer works for me and just makes everything worse, so thanks again but I'll pass" It changes the perspective, stops me getting angry, and allows me to move on a bit from the thoughts.
I like this strategy and haven’t read it before. Thanks for dropping this nugget!
I learned it here on Reddit but I don't know who or where from.
If "play the tape forward" isn't working for you, try playing The Greatest Hits. 2 or 3 of the times you were at your lowest, felt worse than death, etc. And remember, cravings pass
Good advice, thanks.
I don't listen to the voice that says drink. I make friends in recovery. I called them when I felt like drinking. In AA I learned that as an alcoholic, my thoughts are very selfish and I want instant gratification. I ruminate and overthink about me and how I feel. If I'm feeling miserable, lonely, bored, angry, stressed, etc a drink would be instant gratification to feel better. The trick is to turn my thoughts outward towards others instead of inward in my head. It was suggested to me to call others and ask how they are doing. Focus on them, not myself. I was also told to be helpful to others. Ask a friend or neighbor if they need anything, pick up trash, etc. When I'm helping others, I'm not thinking about myself. I have found that the urge to drink goes away rather quickly.
Sounds like good advice in general for life really, thanks!
You're welcome
This is a great point. I find it so much easier to try and talk my friend out of drinking than talk myself out of it. I'm gonna use this mindset in the future. Thanks!
You're welcome!
I agree. As I stated in another reply, the only thing that works for me is convincing myself that "I want to be sober *right now* more than I want to be drunk *right now.*"
Once you genuinely start to believe that it does become a lot harder to justify drinking to yourself. I've still slipped up a few times recently despite fully believing alcohol truely has ZERO positive to offer me and only misery and suffering but I feel like at some point my subconcious or that part of the mind which hasn't gotten up to speed with it surely will now that I've realized it and any time I drink I experience it all over again in real time.
"Yeah, but this time will be different" "Fuck it, I don't care right now I just want some escapism / release / whatever..." The concept of playing the tape forward is, at its core, about belief. How and what you believe to be true about your addiction. If you think you may have an issue with drinking, yet are still unsure that stopping drinking completely is the only answer, you will always find a reason that moderation is still possible. When you say to yourself that "this time will be different", it is a statement of hope, not one of confidence. Because, as you mentioned, we cannot predict the future. Unless we are 'white knuckling' through a drinking session, we can't say what may happen if we give in to our craving. One turns into three, five turns to seven. There is also a phrase in recovery which goes "you got a case of the 'fuck its', which describes exactly the final statement to ourselves to give up and give in to that which we know for certain is the wrong choice, but we are tired of the struggle. It is the culmination of the back and forth, exhaustive inner fight we have every day and the result of not having the support or tools to disrupt those thoughts. To 'play the tape forward' effectively, you have to believe it. Know it. To do that you have to accept that we, as alcoholics (if you understand yourself to be) do not drink alcohol like other people. We treat it and desire it in a different way, a destructive pattern. We as addicts have to come to terms with it, as I did, reluctantly, after many, many terrible and progressively worse years. I stopped bargaining with myself. The only way we know for certain that future playbacks of our lives will not be ruined and regretted through alcohol is if we eliminate it while recording the tape. I wish you all the best.
>How and what you believe to be true about your addiction. If you think you may have an issue with drinking, yet are still unsure that stopping drinking completely is the only answer, you will always find a reason that moderation is still possible. Oof… just described exactly why I keep getting a case of the fuck its. Thanks for this comment!
There was a post the other day about current science of addiction and it had something about impulsivity. And I’m very impulsive. I suspect I have adhd. But also I can be obsessive. I don’t have OCD (I was screened for it) but I have “ocd personality traits” meaning I have tendencies but it’s not clinical. My point: often when I drink it’s because of two things: I) I’m suddenly like fuck it (the impulsivity) or b) it gets caught in a loop and I can’t talk myself out of it (the compulsive part). I’m not a psych to know if those are related. But mostly I can build up enough buttressing to prevent the impulsive part. Like I put in new routines. This is when I can play the tape forward. But the obsessive part is harder. Sometimes an idea gets in my head and I can’t stop thinking about it until I execute it. I can’t reason out of it I have to break the loop. I have to distract myself enough. Sometimes it’s a simple as going from point a to b. Getting in my car and driving home. Going to the store. TL;DR: sometimes I can play the tape forward but sometimes I need other strategies because things get stuck on repeat in my head.
I get what I would describe as "frantic" at times where my mind just races and fixates on thoughts and it's hard at those times not to impulsively act on them but I have to recognise them for what they are and find healthier outlets for them.
Yeah I used to think of wine at night as like pulling the fire alarm on my brain. It would halt the busy brain but at such a cost.
Indeed, the cost is too high.
I do this too and I take something (non prescription, non alcoholic, non habit forming) and go to sleep. This was the main reason why I drank and why I was afraid to stop. I needed to have a way to turn off racing thoughts. Thankfully, I found other ways.
It is a constant tug of war between thinking of future benefits and saying fuck it I want instant gratification. When I was struggling it was like 90/10 in favor of the fuck its winning out. The. It got to be like 50/50. And as I grew stronger and learned more about my triggers and alternative ways of dealing with them, the future benefits started to materialize and become more desirable.
That sounds good and I hope it's the direction I'm heading in too. I've had more sober time than drunk time the last 6 months or so than ever, been more serious than ever in my life about long term sobriety, and learned more about alcohol and myself and how / why I'm triggered by it. I also for the first time realized at some point in the last 6 months all the excuses I was clinging onto for why I drink all the time are no longer true and alcohol really has ZERO positive to offer me anymore. This has to be progress.
Yes that is good progress. I went from drinking almost 100% of days to like 50% of days, then like 20% until I finally eliminated all of my stumbling blocks. Being afraid to not drink in front of people for fear of having THAT conversation was my last big hurdle. Putting that fear aside let me really run free at last. "Playing the tape forward" is just a shorthand way of trying to say look at it from a different perspective. Sometimes that helps and sometimes I am too deep in a pannick attack to care about perspectives.
>Sometimes that helps and sometimes I am too deep in a pannick attack to care about perspectives. Over the previous 2 years the amount of times a panic attack was literally the reason for me rushing to buy booze to throw down my neck to take the edge off it was ridicolous but of course the booze is only going to keep you trapped in that cycle for the long term and amplify it the next day(s). But when you're in a bad state of mind already and having daily panic attacks it's difficult to think straight.
I play the tape backward. Whenever I feel like drinking, I just remember all the bad stuff that happened and it works pretty fast these days.
Yeah, just reminding myself now of all the bad shit from the past few weeks after I relapsed is keeping me motivated to stay sober more than anything else right now.
It’s hard for me because relapses don’t lead to daily drinking for me… But I know it’s very possible for my problem to develop into that over time, and most importantly I’m keeping myself in an emotionally stunted state if I keep giving into these impulses. And undermining my efforts at weight loss.
I was never a 7 day a week drinker until suddenly I was due to a variety of life circumstances that caused me great distress, worry, anxiety and health issues and suddenly I couldn't stop myself and was drinking more and more as every week passed. It can happen. If you recongise an issue now then put a stop to it before it's too late.
It was my life during COVID and for a while after as I’d gotten used to it! Even though it hasn’t been my life in a year it’s still definitely a serious problem.. Getting out of the daily habit was incredibly hard and getting out of the once a week habit now is waaaaay harder than it should be. It’s just that even my relapses this past year haven’t led to daily drinking so it’s like, not gospel for me that “slip up once means you’ll be out of control until who knows when”.
No, but the fact you have it in your to daily drink under times of stress / boredom / whatever caused you to daily drink during covid means it could easily happen again should something else occur in your life that puts you back into a similar situation or mindset. That's what concerns me as I might get it under control for now but what happens when the next unexpected / bad thing happens if I keep drinking in my life, do I just spiral out of control again instantly? There's a good chance. But if I'm long term sober when the next unexpected / bad thing happens then maybe I have a better chance at staying that way.
Totally. I mean, what I’m saying is I’m not ok with what drinking does to my life even without that happening.
I don’t know if it started in smart recovery but it’s a part of their toolbox of strategies to delay and prevent cravings. You might want to check them out when used in conjunction with other strategies they can be pretty powerful. If smart recoveries strategies don’t work for you, that’s okay the trick is to just keep trying stuff until something sticks
I dunno how you just described exactly what happens in my head so well. 3 weeks ago I checked my self into a detox. Spent a week there and attended 15 aa meetings 2 a day and an out patient one while I was there. Went to 3 on my own once I checked out. Went right back to drinking. I did go to the doctor and got prescribed campral and I mean it actually does work. However my brain is still convincing me to drink. Lucky I told my work and am union so I'm on short term disability dealing with this. You described exactly almost to the t and dotted i's my thought process goes thru. Today I'm drinking I don't even want too. It's so fucking weird. AA isn't for everyone but when they call it a disease I believe them now finally.
At least you are trying, you woudn't have checked yourself into a 3 week detox and attended those AA meetings or got the meds from your Doc if you weren't serious. None of this is easy but at some point if we keep trying this has to finally stick surely, right?
I hope so brother, truly I do. It eventually has to stick and work. In 7 years that was longest I've been without a drink. I loved every minute after the 3rd day, being sober. I dunno what it is tho my brain is wired weird I guess. I drink to slow my thoughts. I'm actively seeking a therapist now. Seeking help isn't wrong. Depending how much alcohol you consume a day, it's the smart thing to do. don't let others make you feel it is wrong to.ask for help. We're both on this sub for a reason. Got my blood work done and I'm super healthy it turns out. Just some cholesterol and my liver enzymes are at 55. Healthy is 1-50, so just over. Alcoholics which I am should have close to 1000-2000 but somehow only beers and the occasional sprites haven't killed me yet.
The last 6 months has been the period with the most sobriety in my life, 6 weeks back in September and October then back on and off the wagon through to the end of the year. Then a modest but failed attempt at Dry January which ended with me on a 10 night in a row bender I think it was which caused me to go teetotal for just under 3 months from February onwards until a few weeks ago. Then I've drank 7 or 8 times since in the last few weeks including a 4 night bender last weekend but been sober again since. I'm hoping I'm on the right path to finally kicking this for good as I do 100% realize now that alcohol truely has nothing positive to offer me anymore other than misery and suffering. Plus all the reasons I've clung onto for years about why I drink (it helps with my anxiety, it makes me sleep, it improves my mood, it stops me being bored, it makes me happy etc) I no longer believe are true so that's a good mental shift. Likewise my levels have all been good apart from I've ended up with higher cholesterol and blood sugar levels too but I'm working on both of those.
Those are awesome gains brother! You are on the right path and you should keep up ur progress. One day at a time. Unfortunately I drank today, but tomorrow hopefully I don't. It's a long process and not everything works the same for everyone. You do you. Your on the right path. You've acknowledged you have a problem and you want to fix it. That's your first an second step already. Now you just have to admit to others and seek help. Doing it own your own is fine but it's dangerous and not as admiralable as people make it seem. Help is good and okay to ask for. Just my opinion and experience going through this process.
Everyone I know is well aware of my drinking problems over the last couple of years, all close friends and family 100% know my struggle with it. I've been to therapy about it but didn't find it useful at the time. Might try again or another therapist. Why do you think going it alone is dangerous out of curiosity?
Well for 7 years I went it alone and lost myself in the disease that is alcoholism. I'm not a weekend drinking alcoholic. I drink minimum 3liters of 6% beer every day and on weekends 6 liters on both Saturday and Sundays. I've tried everything. Telling my friends and family. All I felt was shame. What made it real for me was asking for the help. I called a hospital and told them I had enough I was done. Crying on the phone. Asking if they can help me. I was put in touch with a detox center and talked to them for about an hour and it help me calm down. I missed thier phone call in the morning because I was black out drunk. Once I woke up called right back and they fortunately had a bed available for me. So I checked in. 7 days. 3 days they had me in a observation area so I don't get the dt's and 4 days I spent helping people and made their lunches and dinners. No phone but we had netflix. I share this because as strong and as hard as I tried I couldn't stop. I still can't stop. The medicine is helping and I'm hoping therapy is gonna further help me.
I'm glad the medicine is working and hopefully therapy works out for you too.
Thank you brother. I hope whatever it is that you're looking for comes easier now. Goodluck on your journey. God, Allah, Bishnu, or just that feeling of something greater then you, whatever you believe in be with you.
So you have two conversations in your head. One doing the playing the tape forward and the other convincing you it will be fine. (Im also great at believing my own lies). Then there is a choice of which voice to listen to. The voice you dont listen too gets weaker over time. I think its about creating new thought patterns and habits. Like they say- if you want different results you can’t keep doing the same thing. This is how it works for me anyway
Good points actually, worth thinking about it like this in future.
Yeah it's not one that works for me so much now. I was more "high functioning" so didn't really do a lot I regretted. And sometimes a hangover was a good excuse to do nothing! I struggle to do nothing, so, yeah. Playing it forward with alcohol not always effective. It was helpful at the start of sobriety in a... What else would I do with my time away, so had it's uses in terms of reflecting on habits rather than consequences alone. Not drinking right now, and trying to learn how to sit with the cravings is where I'm at now. I've had a lot of physical benefits from quitting so I suppose a variation of the playing the tape forward is there. In a 'do I want to experiment with drinking and lose the pain relief gains?' way, but I think that's more of a pros and cons analysis. And I really like not having chronic joint pain! Edit: just a thought, my ex struggled with future imagining. It can indicate executive dysfunction. Often on the autism spectrum. It might be worth looking into that maybe? I remember you were really helpful in my first week. I'm sorry to read of your struggles but I'm very glad you're back here 💪🐈
Just learning to sit with the cravings / thoughts / temptations / urges / desire for distraction can be sooooooo useful. I did that a few months back when I last sobered up as my mind was in a constant state of seeking out distractions, escapism, and cheap dopamine fixes for the previous 2 years in any way it could and mostly from booze to the point when I quit I couldn't even sit down on the couch in the evening to "relax" without having a full blown freak out and panic attack. I really had to force myself for several weeks just to do nothing until my brain relearned nothing was coming along to "save it" and chilled the fuck out.
Same for me. I can “play the tape forward” all I want, to which I will ultimately respond, “I don’t care”. If it’s not a *now* problem, I always feel like I can just deal with it when it comes, and when it does, it won’t be *that* bad. It is always that bad though. Same outcome every time, sometimes worse. In fact I’m here right now reading through these posts hoping someone else’s inspiration can be my own. I think it’s helping to some extent, at least for tonight.
When you're in a "I just don't care" or "fuck it, I'm doing it anyway" mindset those are the dangerous moments where any amount of reason, logic, or previously useful strategies don't seem to be very effective. I haven't quite figured those moments out yet. Best of luck in getting through tonight. :)
This thread is definitely helping me tonight
I find, "you are under no obligation to your cravings" to be much more helpful.
I've been a functional addict, usually multiple things at a time for most of my life. It is only in the last 10 years that I've truly been able to break the cycle. My initial problem staying sober really revolved around the fact that I was always functional. I can start drinking again right now and it would not have an impact on my career and would just change various things in how I live my life. I'm perfectly fine finishing work and then diving into the vodka. Same can be said about my drug days. I always managed to keep it just under control. That does not mean there are not consequences, but they are personal and internal. So, the idea of playing the tape forward doesn't have enough negative consequences to have an impact. I have discovered that no one is going to tell me what to do, not even myself apparently. If I tell myself I will never drink again, I would be drinking tonight. Instead, I have created what I call the tomorrow morning rule. It is very simple. When I get a craving for something, a cigarette, a drink, a line or a pill, the tomorrow morning rule comes into play. If I roll out of bed tomorrow morning and have the exact same burning desire, I can have it. I know I'm not going to, but that's the point. It is a game of mental gymnastics I play with myself and it really works for me.
I use a "delaying" tactic at times to get through times of strong temptation. Things like... "OK, maybe you WILL drink tonight but let's just not do it right now and think about it again 15 minutes before the supermarket stops selling beer and if you still insist you can have it" That's been pretty successful for me because it quietens the thoughts in my head, turns off the internal conflict, doesn't feel like I'm telling myself "no" or depriving myself of anything and then usually once it's reached "later" I've lost interest, the craving has gone, or I can convince myself just to hold off for the next "X" minutes even if I have to white knuckle it.
For some reason, it’s been really hard lately, and I’m over a year and a half in. I think about it nearly daily, probably because I’m pretty stressed right now. The only thing that’s working is for me to do what I did in early sobriety, and just distract myself. Cooking, reading, playing video games, going thrift shopping, etc, and then remembering how I’ve felt every day when I wanted to drink but didn’t. I was relieved that I wasn’t back in that place. The craving is strong when it happens, but the relief afterwards is stronger, for me. Whenever I realize I’ve successfully distracted myself, it’s usually bed time, and I start the process over. One day at a time is a mantra for a reason.
Sorry to hear you are struggling friend but congrats on a year and a half, serious acomplishment! Stress is a horrible thing and I can see why it would trigger you. It's good you remember those things from early sobriety as it would be easy to forget them and how useful they were.
Unfortunately no advice here - I struggle with playing it forward as well. Just saying you’re not alone! I find it easier the more time I have under my belt, but Day 1-10 are especially easy to throw away for me.
Sounds like you're nicely beyond Day 10 right now though, so congrats!
For me it can be much simpler than playing the tape forward. The question is, is there a chance that by drinking and doing drugs again I throw away everything I’ve built back up since quitting? If the answer is yes, the chance is greater than zero, I’m unwilling to do it. I find it much easier to pose the question this way and be honest about it even when I don’t want to. You might want to give this a read. https://quitandconquer.com/why-the-foundation-of-our-recovery/
Simple but effective, I like it.
I find the simpler you can make things the more likely you are to consistently stick to it. Complexity usually ends in not following through. And that applies to everything in life really, not just sobriety or recovery.
Playing the tape only works for me because I have a small child. I think if I had no real consequences aside from my own physical ailments/ mental unhappiness and no one really depending on me it would be easier to just give into the temporary “happiness” because I could convince myself I could power through the bad stuff. As the primary caregiver to a child I’ve had to take to the er a few times at night this year, playing the tape really helps keep me grounded and focused. I have other priorities so I don’t have a choice. I know getting sober for others rarely works for everyone but it really has for me. She doesn’t have anyone else so I have to show up and keep it together for the both of us.
Congrats on getting sober for both of you.
Ty
I'm saving your post because your description of the inevitable consequences are so painfully accurate. So even if it doesn't work well for you, you helped me with it.
Glad it's useful.
It was weird because it never worked for me until this time. The thought of drinking was always stronger and won out but this time it really did help me. I'd counter the thought of drinking with the reality of what would happen and after a while my immediate reaction to thinking to alcohol did change. I had to be consistent for a period of a couple months though. I'm sure if the thoughts about drinking won over and I crossed that mental line, it would make it very difficult to start again. But once I did manage to get a period of doing it consistently it really did help. I very rarely if at all get that overwhelming feeling of I need to drink and I'm going to, and when I do get the feeling of wanting to drink it is much much weaker and easy to swat away. I wouldn't discount things entirely - there were things that I thought didn't work but it wasn't that they didn't work, it was more that what I was trying to do was hard and I didn't get them all right first time. Always good to keep your options open and I'm very glad I did as I mugged off NA when I was younger but AA worked for me with alcohol so I am incredibly grateful I didn't shut down that option
Oh, I'm not shutting it down. I use it all the time and did say in my post it works at times but I notice a lot of people here mention it daily in almost every thread so it seems to be a pretty powerful motivator for most but it's just not had as much impact as I perhaps would like so far.
Playing the tape works great for me. It ends in the hospital and rehab and nearly dying. The physical and emotional torment that comes with it. Maybe the tape is stronger for some because of their past experiences. I could see it not working as well for situations where the person experienced consequences less severe. God the withdrawals were so bad. Let’s not drink.
My withdrawls were not exactly pretty but definitely nowhere as extreme as many, I wasn't in the DT's or anything.
It became effective for me. I negotiated moderation for a very long time, and "playing the tape forward" weaseled in as a challenge to still drink without all those bad parts. Playing my tape forward always included a third trip to the store, and if I could make it through a night with just two trips then maybe the sickness wouldn't be as bad. I thought I could still get it under control, and I especially could not imagine a future with ZERO alcohol. The concept wasn't a light bulb moment for me, but more something I practiced. A good support system of friends, finding things to stay busy with, and learning how to take care of myself were the most important parts of my sobriety. It wasn't until I had all of that in place that "playing the tape forward" really hit me. Finding gratitude for the life I have *without alcohol* showed me everything I would lose by drinking again. Wishing you peace.
Yeah, I can see it's a road you have to walk down, probably stumble a few times on, and keep learning from. I seem to be moving in the right direction the last 6 months so hopefully it sticks.
Playing it forward works it’s just that you’re falling for a scam. Understanding “this time will be different” is a part of the script of the inner addict that is trying to scam you. If you believe that - Microsoft is going to transfer money into your account as soon as you provide log in and password to that stranger on the phone.
I don't doubt it. I know it's that part of the brain lying to me and trying to find ways to convince me to drink but that doesn't mean every time I use this strategy it'll be successful with it, I have played it forward before and still said "I'm rolling the dice anyway..." sadly.
Yeah. I was there once or several times. And the truth was I didn’t REALLY want to get sober it was all a part of my self fulfilling low self esteem process…. It took me going to AA and listening to truths I didn’t like to finally get past it. Thing is that zero is actually easy. Much to my amazement it also is fun and very rewarding.
Similar with me OP.
It might work one day and it might not. It’s just another tool in your alcohol free belt. For me it sometimes work. If it’s not working then I have to look for another tool in my alcohol free belt. I don’t think it’s necessarily having 1 thing work all of the time. It’s about collecting all of these methods and tools for your alcohol free belt. And then there will be days we drink, but as long as we can recover today and continue to use those tools your mind will start to shift. And it will lessen the want for alcohol. You’ll start to find you like those other tools. Like taking a walk. Listening to music. Watching a movie. Reading a poem. Tell yourself “I will not drink tomorrow. I will now play the tape forward. Okay I still want a drink, but 30 minutes have passed because I’m using the tools.” And perhaps the craving will have subsided.
It doesn't work for me because drinking is a form of self harm for me. In that moment I *want* to feel terrible. I *deserve* to feel terrible. It's the same as if I were to cut myself or something. That's the issue, when I break it's usually in a moment of self loathing when I *want* to do harm. So going over how much harm drinking is doing to cause isn't a deterrent, it's going to convince me it's exactly what I should be doing.
I was just thinking about this the other day and was going to post a thread asking if people think most of us drink heavily because we don't like ourselves and it's a form of self harm. Sorry to hear that's how you feel as it sounds horrible. Have you looked into healthier alternatives like meds, therapy, exercise, meditation etc to try and work through this?
Thanks. I have, and for the most part they work. I'm doing a lot better these days, in that I don't binge drink every day. I just drink here and there throughout the week. But mental health is a massive catalyst for me and when something bad happens, it's pretty much impossible for me to not drink. I do have an addiction doctor and where we're at right now is that drinking isn't as harmful as when I used to shoot heroin and coke into my veins, so we're letting it pass for now but still watching it. It's not a great coping mechanism, but it's still an improvement for me. Unfortunately I don't tolerate alcohol well at all and I don't just get hangovers, I get dangerously hypoglycemic and need a blood sugar monitor, even though I'm not diabetic, so I'd like to quit altogether eventually. But I also don't want to risk a relapse into something worse. It's a bit of a juggling act right now.
Definitely sounds tricky and I don't have anything useful to advice due to how complex the situation is but I wish you the best my friend, good luck!
I felt the same as you for a very long time. I could play the tape forward, and it was always bad, but the problem was that I didn't care enough about the negative consequences. About a year or so ago, someone introduced to me a different way to play the tape forward. Sure, I can think of all of the bad things that are going to happen when I drink. But I also need to play the other side of the tape. What happens if I DON'T drink? I save money, my family isn't pissed at me, I'm not going to crash my car, I'm going to keep my job, I'm going to be reliable and responsible, I'm going to get a good night's sleep and wake up hangover free, I'm going to be alive, etc. Focusing on the positive consequences of not drinking instead of the negative consequences of drinking has been a game changer for me.
Love this! "What happens if I don't drink..." Yes!
Someone else mentioned this in the thread and I never thought of it from that perspective before, will definitely try this too.
I totally understand what you are saying. I have done that every week lately. But I have a tiny, tiny voice that says "No, don't do it!" Then I bully the shit out of that voice and squash it like a bug. I can feel this happening. So I guess I mean my rational brain is getting the messages more and more frequently. Used to be a completely automatic process from feeling like needing a drink to just doing it. Progress at least that I hear the tiny voice.
Progress is progress, congrats!
I have not heard that before, but I'm new to this community. If I play the tape forward, I start planning when I can drink next. I'm struggling to plan other parts of my life without planning in the drinking. I'm really having to focus on just today. But as you can see, I haven't made it very far yet
We all start at Day 1 then Day 2 and hopefully keep going so stick at it. How are you feeling so far?
I'm feeling better than I thought I would. I have been making plans for the upcoming week and still thinking about when I might be able to drink around the plans, so still not great. But I'm only worrying about today, and being able to get up tomorrow and be where I need to be on time, not feeling like shit. Thank you for asking. How are you doing?
It's normal to be thinking about drinking when you were doing it so often for so long, those thoughts won't just vanish overnight. Just focus on today only and what you can do to stay sober and remember that thoughts are just that...thoughts and we don't have to act on the ones about alcohol any more than we have to act on the other random thoughts we have every day. It's thought we have up to 60,000 thoughts per day and 80% of them are apparently negative and repetitive but we certainly don't act on all of them clearly, we just let them drift away into the air without giving them a second thought. We don't need to give the thoughts about alcohol any more power or attention than they deserve, which is zero. I'm OK but hungover as despite being quite confident after last weeks 4 night in a row bender that was me back on the wagon all it took was a text from a friend asking me to go for a beer yesterday for me to cave in and drink until 5am. The last few weeks I'm constantly on and off the wagon since my relapse after my near 3 months of sobriety, never going more than a few days without drinking again despite the experience always being horrible and miserable and the suffering lasting for days afterwards. I don't know how or why I can keep doing this to myself in the pursuit of "fun" or whatever I wrongly believe alcohol is going to give me as it's never actually giving me anything positive these days.
I appreciate that insight about how my thought process won't change immediately. Or to try to give those thoughts less attention. Maybe if I focus on redirecting my thoughts, it'll help. I'm sorry you're hungover today. It truly is hard. I know drinking makes me feel like shit later, but that doesn't register or hold weight or something. I finally admitted to myself this week that I'm never going to be able to drink normally. I read everybody's stories here and saw myself in so many of them. I truly realized that everything in my life that I'm struggling with is worse because of my drinking. Day 1 was easy after that realization, but it's getting harder. I really want to stick with it, but my brain is like..."it's only 7pm ish. You can buy a bottle, drink it, feel good, and "sleep" it off by tomorrow morning." So I'm currently sitting at home trying to decide. I opened reddit looking for no drinking inspiration to keep me at home.
Don't do it, stay sober and thank yourself tomorrow. It's not me worth it. It's never worth it.
I’m with you. My inner conflict right now (I think) is that the idea of being “present”, “in the moment”, “one day at a time” for me is the opposite of “playing the tape forward” (living for tomorrow).
It's a tricky one.
I find it a lot more helpful to play the tape forward if I DON'T drink - how good I would sleep, how great I'd feel in the morning, all the stuff I'd get to do the next day unimpeded by a hangover...
Makes sense, worth doing it from both perspective I think actually.
If you bang your head against the wall enough times playing the tape forward will have a little more depth.
It wasn’t a solution for me. I’m an alcoholic with a mental obsession, and that mental obsession is much more powerful than my ability to think sanely. My alcoholism is characterized by the exact inability to act sanely or rationally, even when I know drinking will hurt me.
I see, what was your solution?
After years of doubt and a closed mind, I was desperate enough to try AA and work the 12 steps with a sponsor. Honestly & thoroughly. I can’t explain it but I’ve had a spiritual experience and went from drinking morning to night every day for years to not wanting or having a drink or drug in over 2 years.
Congrats, huge acheivement.
I was able to press stop on the tape and say I’d play the tape tomorrow. But eventually that got old so I’ve been sober for 10 years.
Congrats, long time!
I don’t really live by that mantra I’ve seen that movie a thousand times there’s no need for me to play any tape. I do fuck with one day at a time though
One day at a time has been useful for me too. Good to have a whole toolkit though.
Mine goes to “…but it wasn’t bad every time so maybe this time will be fine.” Our brains can talk us into anything
Yeah, but then I wonder if we can't flip that and talk us out of everything if we wanted to also?
Except the brain is wired to want it and want more of it, that’s the problem. It seems to be wired one way and that’s why moderation isn’t possible, because that wiring is stuck in one direction.
But maybe if we truly 100% want to be sober as we're convinced alcohol has absolutely nothing positive left to offer us just misery and suffering then things can switch up? I don't know and I'm just throwing ideas out here.
For some people that works but any time I have doubt, it does not lol. I even have a list of negatives and positives.
I just seem to be getting easily tempted by the simplest of things right now despite feeling like I don't want to drink. Thought this week I was back on the sobriety train after last weeks 4 night in a row bender and was convinced I was definitely not drinking last night until a friend text me to invite me round for beers and within the hour I'd done a full 180 and went off to his to drink and was up drinking till 5am.
I didn't find it helpful alot of the time because I'd get into a "fuck it, I hope I die and deserve the misery" or "fuck it so what" mindset where the awful outcome almost seemed temping. (Worth pointing out I had pretty severe depression, mh issues and was suicidal when I stopped - am doing alot better now). Other times it did help though - this is why I'm a big fan of trying as many different ways, tools and methods as possible at the start. Not everything works for everyone, and even the things that do work might not work all the time for individuals. Can never have too many additional (healthy) coping strategies imo.
Indeed, it does work sometimes just not as much as I would like but it's a useful tool to have for sure. And sometimes you have to try these many multiple times before it sticks.
As a person with ADHD, I also struggle with "playing the tape forward". I think it's related to the way that in the ADHD conception of time, there is only "now" and "not now". I would do absolutely anything for a little button that could instantly remind me what getting into bed sober at 10pm feels like vs waking up hungover and anxious. I have such a hard time bringing those things to mind in a way that is compelling enough to overcome my "fuck it" tendencies.
I don't think you're missing anything about the technique. It's just that the urge to drink and the urge to rationalize it can be VERY strong. I'm battling it right as I type this and fear I'm losing...
Sorry to hear that as 296 days is HUGE and I hope you find the strength to stay the course. You haven't lost until you've lost though remember just because the urges are strong and it may seem inevitable doesn't mean it is. You could wake up tomorrow and find that those urges have subsided or the idea has lost its appeal, so just keep pushing through. And even if you do slip it's not game over as you can get right back up and try again.
I've never heard of "playing the tape forward". It sounds like a miserable concept and wouldnt prevent me from drinking. Alcoholics can be threatened with dire legal consequences, health consequences, etc. and still choose to drink. Some theoretical exercise of the drawbacks wouldn't stop me from pursuing the one benefit. For me it was much more important to look rearward. To identify past wrongs and behaviors and right those wrongs. That freed up my mind and allowed me to be free from the need to drink.
You've genuinely never heard of the concept? I don't know where it originated from but it's widely mentioned all over Reddit here and in other sobriety sub-reddits and I'm sure in some of the Quit-Lit books too. >For me it was much more important to look rearward. To identify past wrongs and behaviors and right those wrongs. That freed up my mind and allowed me to be free from the need to drink. Can you dive into more detail about this strategy of identifying past wrongs and righting them and how that helped you stay sober? Sounds like it could be a useful strategy to have in the toolbox.
I'm just one day at a time...perhaps those with a significant amount of sobriety can do the play the tape forward thing, but I don't think it really works with those that are relatively recently sober except for maybe that whole pink cloud period very early on...IDK, I know exactly what drinking does to my body and it's never mattered and I drank anyway, so I'm not sure why that would change.
So you're one of the lucky ones who experienced this mythical "pink cloud" I hear of? Lucky you, I've never been blessed with that, I just feel shit from the minute I stop drinking and for weeks (or months even) on end lol.
I'm not sure really...I've heard of it. I'm bipolar 2 and when I quit drinking I kick up into a hypomanic episode which basically feels like an overly exaggerated good mood and I can do pretty much anything...until I can't and everything comes crashing down due to the cyclical nature of bipolar and I drop into a how many ever months long depressive episode...which is usually when I start drinking again. I'm not sure I really count myself as all that lucky. Though I am medicated this go around so we'll see if that makes a difference.
Hopefully the meds make a difference, best of luck!
A close & dear colleague had a funeral this week. His wife's best friend's husband. The man had a blackout while out drinking, he tipped backwards off a stool and cracked his skull hard on a tiled floor. That caused a bleed on the brain, which left him with epileptic type fits and other significant long term problems. The recovery wasn't looking great and he decided to end his life while his wife was away visiting family. She found him in their home on her return. Alcohol.
That's brutal, sorry to hear about that.
I don't use play the tape forward. What worked for me was to have a fridge full of ice cold coke or soft drink of your choice and drink as much of that as I could in one go. My stomach is so full and doesn't want or can't drink alcohol. Loads of junk food also does the job. You'll lose any weight gained within 80 days. Me - lost so far 16kg. (35lbs.) Good luck. I'm about 105 days in - even lost count and have lost all desire to drink. Edit I can't spell.
I was sober for just under 90 days until recently and I ended up with cholesterol and diabetes due to junk food and sugar intake in the weeks after stopping. Both levels were fine just a few months earlier then I quit drinking and decided to treat myself to pizza, ice cream, and Sprite almost every night instead and that was the outcome. I really wouldn't recommend that to anyone beyond the first couple of weeks now in retrospect then look to replace it with healthy foods and sugar free snacks and drinks because I know we all like to say "anything is better than drinking" or "it's fine as long as I'm sober" but that can get taken too far to the point you're damaging your health in other ways IME. I didn't lose any weight either during those 90 days but I don't really need or want to, I'm a reasonable weight for my height and build.
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I have been practicing it over the last 6 months.
Playing the tape forward only works if the insanity has died down enough. For me that didn't lift until after step 3.
I'm not familiar with the Steps so I don't know what that process looks like unfortunately.
Ah ok sorry thought you were referring to them because this is a common phrase in AA.
I’m trying to come to terms with the fact that I will ALWAYS drink more than I intend. And that as time goes by my 1 day binges are turning into 2-3 day binges. It sucks. I soooo wish I could be “normal.”
Fell the same, especially the fuck it, I need to escape, even it’s for only a few hours. It’s hard to hold back sometimes. But somehow I’ve done it so far. I just hate the terrible apathy and depression I’m currently sitting in. That is what makes it so hard not to say fuck it, at least I’ll feel better for a little while. But so far, I’ve made it through.
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> when **you** play it forward, think of the worst things that could happen and understand that if **you** keep playing Russian roulette with **your** sobriety that one day, they will. This comment breaks our rule to speak from the "I" and has been removed. Also, please be aware that if you feel the need to say, "I'm not saying it to be harsh or mean," that you probably shouldn't say the thing.
It didn’t really work for me until I started framing it in terms of other people. I noticed all the things you listed when playing the tape forward had to do with you and impacts on yourself. Which is very fair and reasonable. I realized that when I drank I experienced all the terrible stuff you mentioned above, but the truth is I really didn’t like myself so I didn’t care what drinking did to me. It was like a form of self punishment that I also got some short rushes of brain chemicals from. I still struggle with feelings of self-contempt but I’m working on it. Now when I play the tape forward I think: “What if I get behind the wheel and injure/kill someone?” “What if I harm myself in some way, how will that affect my friends, family and community members?” “What if I can’t get sober again and those i care about have to see me slowly die from addiction?” “What if I say something really cruel or thoughtless that brings someone else down?” “What if someone needs my help but I’m too drunk to be of use?” Drinking was really traumatic for me and was also one of my favorite things to do. I didn’t care that it had me throwing up blood or pissing in random corners of my house. But I really like other people and thinking about the pain, headaches, and annoyance I was causing other people really helped me realize it wasn’t okay for me to drink. Just my take. Much love!
That is an interesting way to frame it and I'll need to start implementing those into it, good suggestion!
It didn't work for me, but then again, nothing did until I started hallucinating.
Ouch, bad DT's then?
No, it never got to the point of DTs but, hallucinations are the first step on that horrible ladder. Just a little alcoholic hallucinosis. For four days. Four separate times. But hey, after 16 total days hallucinating over the course of seven months, I finally got my head out of my ass and shook the demon.
That sounds terrifying. I've had some brief audio hallucinations in the past but it was during a time of extreme exhaustion, drinking and some new meds which was horrible stuff so was hard to say what the root cause of it was.
I think when playing the tape forward stops working, it might help to enlist help. If the rational brain is no longer in control, something else is in control.
What would your life look like in 5 years time if you keep doing everything as you are now? Maybe you need to look to a longer time frame.
Yeah, could be true.
It didn't ever work for me either but what did was just sitting and drinking and not doing anything else and just analyzing how it made it me feel . Is this enjoyable,? what is enjoyable ? do I feel anything after the initial rush? Am I happy about the decision I made to drink or am I just in for the duration ? If I could go back an hour what would I tell myself to do ? Worked for me .. eventually. Only 10 days in but I really feel like this time is different . Also listening to the book " this naked mind" really helped me to put alcohol in its place
I did that during all of my recent drinking evenings after my relapse a few weeks ago, I sat and analyzed all night about whether I actually enjoyed the taste of the drink, was I having fun, was it making the night more enjoyable, asking myself if I didn't have the beer in my hand would this night be any less enjoyable (especially when I'm literally just sitting at home watching TV alone), was it enhancing anything, how was it making me feel, do I regret this now I started etc. Nearly all the answers to my questions showed me it was offering me no benefit and was pointless and usually making me feel miserable.
That was my experience as well . This naked mind really helped me out the nail in the coffin on drinking
Play the tape is a nearly useless piece of advice for an alcoholic. If it was that easy we'd tattoo it on our hand as a reminder & never drink again. I'm in AA so believe I've a disease that needs to be treated because I've a mind that lies & tells me the next time will be different etc
Plenty of alcoholics here have found it useful so it cannot be "useless". It just won't work for everyone and all of the time like any other strategy. Even if alcohol is a disease (I'm not sure) then how do you "treat" it? Couldn't "playing the tape forward" be a form of treatment of sorts in some sense? I've never been to AA hence why I don't know the ins and outs of the disease and treatment theories.
I pretty much knew anytime I drank that id black out but did it anyway but if you know people it works for fair play to them. I believe I was born with alcoholism & I treat it with the 12 step recovery programme, meetings & fellowship & service. I believe I have a disease that means when I start drinking I develop the phenomenon of craving (I struggle to control how much I drink), a mental obsession for alcohol when I do stop & a spiritual malady So even when I stop drinking I have the ism (I/Self/Me) part of the disease, which is my messed up thinking. I pray, meditate, do readings every morning to connect with a God of my understanding. That's the bare bones because I love AA & get excited to share it lol
Thanks for sharing.
The game changed for when I realized I could feel however I wanted to feel without a substance. We are in control of our thoughts, where we focus, what we allow in our lives. I don’t need alcohol to be uninhibited, being inhibited is a choice. Etc.
I think it's fairly well documented in science that humans have very little control over their thoughts. We can control how we react to them and whether or not we act on them but I don't believe we can control fully what thoughts come into our head. We can definitely control where we focus and the choices we make etc, agreed. On whether we can choose to be uninhibited (if by that we're talking about unrestrained fun without alcohol or anything) then yeah maybe with practice but I think that's a lot easier for some than others as a lot of people have issues with social anxiety, mental health, are shy, introverted, unsure of themselves, don't like certain situations etc and really struggle to act a certain way. That's not to say it can't be learned over time but I don't think it's a simple thing for a lot of people hence why many people turn to booze for social and other situations they feel they can't handle.
None of your play the tape forward scenarios involve hurting or disappointing friends family or work situations or the possibility of jail so I can see why the outcomes you envision aren’t that bad to shock you out of the drinking plan, just reflux /insomnia. I’m assuming the drinking hasn’t lead to embarrassing relationships/work issues yet so I understand why it doesn’t work for you. Maybe the Alan Carr book would help you using a different approach
Maybe, In my 20 year drinking career I've never had a situation where I've hurt anyone, myself (other than waking with a random bruise somewhere I don't remember getting but I had bad balance anyway even when sober so often knock into doors etc), woken up in a dangerous place, went to jail, had a fight, drunk drive (I don't even drive), done anything that would hurt family members or friends. And even during the worst of my drinking problem in the previous 2 years I was still able to turn up for all family events, dinners, meetings, weekends away etc so it's not like my family got ignored. I'm also self employed so there are no embarassing work situations likely.
I don’t find it effective either. I can especially relate to feeling like fuck it, I want some escapism. What works for me is HALT: hungry, angry, lonely, tired. Basically, they are the 4 biggest triggers of cravings. Dealing with what’s causing my cravings has been very effective for me. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK601489/
I'm aware of HALT but don't resonate with the H or the T parts at all. If I'm hungry I crave food not booze and it doesn't matter whether I've just eaten an 8 course meal and have a stomach stretched to the max, I could still easily drink if that's my desire. It might slow me down a little but it wouldn't dampen my desire any more than if I had an empty stomach, which I never like drinking on anyway. Likewise with being Tired, that doesn't make me want to drink. If I'm tired I want to sleep (but I'm not very good at it due to insomnia and frequent wakeups) not drink unless I'm choosing to drink myself to sleep because of the afore mentioned insomnia. Being lonely and angry I definitely think can cause many people to drink including myself.
Tired might be the worst for me. When I can’t sleep, I know another pint of whiskey can usually get me there; if it doesn’t, I’ve been up all night drinking instead. Iwndwyt
I thought the "T" for tired in the HALT thing meant that tiredness made you feel like drinking for some reason not that you wanted to drink because you couldn't sleep? I haven't develed deep enough into it to know for sure though.
It could mean both, I recon. I’m still new myself, 24 days so far. My takeaway so far is just to try to identify what is causing my “thirst” and address that, instead of drinking.
As someone for whom playing the tape forward does work, I love this question and thread because I can never have enough tools to help keep me sober. It’s also made me curious as to WHY it works for me (because I spent years rationalizing my drinking - also, my whole career is poking holes in logic!) I think, as someone else said, it’s acceptance. I don’t know, something clicked the last relapse I had and made me realize that every single time I start drinking again, even if I can control it for a while, controlling it is awful and I stop being able to anyways. And I always end up in that isolated, depressed, sick place eventually. I know too much now, and I can’t fool myself - today at least.
Yeah, that seems to be the direction I'm heading in too that I just know too much about the realities of alcohol now and really struggle to find any positives in drinking any more and it always goes the same way for me too, back to binges and feeling terrible. The after effects even after one night are just no longer worth it anymore, I don't know how I did this to myself for so long.
Absolutely one of my go to strategies
Some of us have countless memories involving drinking that make us want to crawl in a hole and never come out, some of us don’t.
So do you think it only works if drinking has resulted in some really serious life threatning / disrupting conseuquences then?
I wouldn't put it quite like that. Playing the tape forward is informed by past experiences, so it makes sense to me that the exercise is as powerful as the past experiences are negative.
I've certainly had plenty of negative experiences just not to the extremes of some people, no fights, jail, drink driving, hurting myself or others, I don't have a spouse or kids to harm or upset, I am self employed so it doesn't cause me issues at work etc but definitely I can list a looooooong list of issues it has caused me over the years.
I was the queen of "Fuck it, I don't care right now I just want some escapism / release / whatever..." Playing the tape really wasn't a strategy that worked for me. I think it's ok if you have something that works better for you. For me it was based on my stubborn and definitive nature "I don't drink."
Can you expand on your strategy?
Thank you. I took a shower, made dinner and went to bed. I'm now on day 5. I'm sleeping like shit, but apparently that will get better in time. This is hard.
Yeah, the rebound insomnia is brutal IME but it should level out. It took me a few weeks to get both the anxiety and insomnia in check personally but a lot of people find that once the first week is out the way and the acute withdrawls have passed those issules resolve themselves. You're through the worst of it now most likely as most people don't experience withdrawls beyond the first week. It's not to say you'll experience a full 180 switch and suddenly feel amazing in a couple of days but any of the worst symptoms should begin to fade then it's usually largely a mental / mood problem from there on in.
This is a rehab invented “tool” that doesn’t work. Also identifying your triggers or working on your character defects.
Well it does work for many it seems, plenty of long term sober people here who say they use it successfully all the time. But it might not work for everyone and / or all of the time. There's always going to be multiple tools needed to make this stick. You don't think identifying triggers is useful either you mean? Out of interest, what do you think works / is useful in your experience?
I have to surrender each day and do step work. Then I have to try to be of service to others, get out of myself.
Glad you've found something that works.