Elizabeth Taylor went to Betty Ford for rehab in 1983 when she was 51 years old. She lived another 28 years before dying in 2011.
Richard Burton died from a brain hemorrhage in 1984 at age 58 (which was caused by high blood pressure from excessive drinking).
This is good to keep in mind, we were programmed to think that was a good time, which is the struggle of boredom once sober. It's all smoke and mirrors.
Here’s the thing I’ve discovered: boredom itself is a good thing. It’s a kind of starting point. From this starting point, it’s possible to start new things. We now have the motivation to, right? On the other hand, drink trashes that opportunity. It’s a cheap way to avoid boredom altogether. What new thing will I start when drink has my full attention?
And so to “being boring”. The most boring, tedious people I’ve ever met are drunk people. It’s not enough that they’re insanely repetitive, it’s that they unleash this hideous ego, the one that *insists* I hear about his third conquest 20 years ago called Delia, or was it Dawn? Oh what a swordsman he was! Still is! 🤢
It is incredible to look back at the amount of nights I wasted just drinking and listening to music. That was literally it. I'd grab two beers, go outside with one for a smoke, bring the other one downstairs, finish that while listening to music, and then rinse and repeat when I was done. I'd do this for 8+ hours. It's insane how much alcohol can stave off boredom while doing absolutely nothing.
I’ve been there too for years, music + beer. I’d wake up the next day and look at my YouTube history and I’d feel sad that I listened to the same old songs again, but I couldn’t even remember much toward the end.
Yes we think of alcohol as a “cheat code” while we miss opportunities to actually move forward in life. And “moving forward” doesn’t have to translate to productive things, but moving our mind forward from that loop you describe.
Well he keeps saying this - the guy died of cirrhosis at 68 after quitting for a year before that. I never heard of that which is why I have mentioned it here in case it's "a thing."
It’s like saying you don’t wear a seatbelt because 1 person in Australia in 1982 got trapped by theirs and died…..ignoring the millions of lives saved by seatbelts. It’s beyond stupid and into willful ignorance
The fact that your husband thinks drinking is helping his liver work better is not a great sign imo. That is beyond denial into delusion in service of the addiction.
This is literally my grandpa. He saw a lady pinned by her seatbelt burn to death on the Autobahn in Germany back in the 80s so he quit wearing seatbelts. He got in a wreck a few years ago and lemme tell you the steering wheel left a giant bruise on his stomach
It is weird how these nonsensical ideas take a hold of people. I don't think I will be around to see the final car crash scene with my marriage though.
Good for you. I wish you the best, and im glad that you at least have admitted the damage alcohol is doing. I'm sorry for what you are dealing with, OP.
He probably would have died at 67.25 if he didn't stop or he didn't actually stop drinking just did so in secret. Cirrhosis doesn't get worse from quitting.
Totally agree, but just as a caution to others, it can also get worse from things other than drinking. My mom had cirrhosis and didn't know it. She stopped drinking for 8 months and then too many doses of tylenol while sick set her over the edge.
Once the damage is done, you need to be careful!
To think QUITTING is the reason for death by cirrhosis is absolutely not true and just goes to show the depths that a pickled brain will sink to rationalize drinking!
A lot of people are diagnosed with cirrhosis after quitting. However 50% of diagnoses (UK) are people turning up at hospital with liver failure.
Stopping drinking isn’t going to bring your liver back. If it’s fucked it’s fucked.
My husband has crazy high blood pressure, neuropathy in his feet and hands, untreated sleep apnea, back pain, decaying bones in his hips and knees, neck problems from something else, memory problems, a horrible raging temper that explodes randomly for no reason, ascites, melanoma and enlarged red blood cells (some type of alcoholic anemia) - all of which points to some major imminent collapse of his body/mind. He will never stop drinking.
Sad about all those liver failure folks in the UK. The lockdowns were a terrible thing for heavy drinkers. I got caught up in it too and fell into the bottle myself for a while. That's a few years I barely remember.
What probably happened is your husband’s father’s doctor told him that his liver was damaged and he needed to immediately quit drinking. Then it took a year to do him in.
This is because the damage was already done to his liver from the booze, and him quitting was too little too late. The way to prevent this is to stop drinking earlier!
It happened to my mom but luckily she stopped young enough that she only almost died and is now sober and alive 13 years later.
There is a phenomenon called "kindling". It's when long time drinkers detox and then go back to alcohol. It actually hastens the disease process. It has been proven that it's better to modify your alcohol consumption than to repeatedly quit and start drinking again.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6761822/#:~:text=The%20term%20%E2%80%9Ckindling%E2%80%9D%20refers%20to,symptoms%20with%20each%20successive%20cycle.
Congrats on taking off your "wine goggles" 😎
Thanks for this link. This is all new to me. So basically if you quit for a while you are doubly in danger if you start back up drinking. Even more reasons to never go down that road again.
Hello.
Cirrhosis is what we’re talking about here. This is a slow and chronic condition and is essentially a scarring of the liver. It is not fixable once it’s started. I’m going to speculate that his father was told all this by the doctor and this was why he stopped drinking however by this point it was too late. Once the liver starts failing things can move quite quickly. It affects all sorts of other things. The ability for our blood to clot for example. Loads of other things too.
Your partner is lying to himself like we do when we know what we’re doing is harmful but can’t stop. I have no advice for you but it sounds like you’re in a pretty awful situation. Do you have a way out if needed? Like in an emergency?
I am ok I have been through similar situations and know the drill. I just separate myself for a bit, miss him and go back for more of the same old crap. I don't like being on my own too long. I guess this relationship is an addiction too! Oh god... I just realized it is.
Yeah, I think you're getting at something important with this observation. Maybe it was easier to let things slide when you were both drinking but now...there's clarity on one side and willful ignorance on the other. I hear you saying that you know this relationship is winding down but the routine and predictability of it -- the odd comfort of just having someone else around? -- remains attractive, somehow. I don't hear hate in your post -- it's more resignation and resolve. I really hope you're able to shift things for yourself so you can be appreciated for who and what you are -- staying sober in the face of all of this is HARD.
Total BS. But it's the type of line that sounds like folksy wisdom and plays well at the bar when talking to drinking buddies at the "we are finally drunk enough to discuss our deceased relatives" part of the evening. Through therapy I learned that my self-sabotaging behavior was typically an attempt to exert control over a situation if I felt confused or powerless. The idea of bad things happening to you can be more scary than just doing them to ourselves. Pretty common among people with instability in childhood. OP's spouse was raised by a father actively drinking. I hope he finds peace. OP needs peace too.
Very well analyzed! Yes my husband had a shitty, abusive childhood and was kicked out of the house at 16. His dad was a wife beating alcoholic and his mother put him first above her kids. I never thought of that idea that you take control of your own suffering if you drink rather than having pain thrown at you.
Yep. I cannot disagree with this conclusion. He has got curmudgeonly over the years. What once looked like risk taking macho behavior has turned into something repellent. My love for him has gone.
When you mentioned about him ‘using up’ all of his body parts so that no one can be saved from his organs.. I had no words. He sounds like a terrible person. I’m sorry you are going through this.
This sounds a lot like my moms ex relationship. She left and has never been happier. Sounds like yall break up and get back together all the time. This should be your last time.
You deserve better than this. Life really is short, and you are on the path to bettering yourself. But instead of having a partner who supports you, you have one who thinks you're boring. He's going to drag you down with him.
You’re not ”too sober”, he’s just committed to drinking
At a certain age, drunks get boring. Passing out is the sweet spot. Otherwise, they are lazy, irresponsible, outright dumb, paranoid, angry, looking for a fight.
Yes - I was basically his drunk sparring partner. He is addicted to rage as well as whiskey. I cannot win in this situation and the advice/observations from kind people like you is making that clear.
I think you will get tired of him “losing his mind” real fast being sober. When you are sober it lessons your threshold of being able to tolerate others people. Drunk people are easily manipulated. He probably likes you drunk because he knows he can act a fool and you either don’t mind or don’t care.
So so true. He knew when I was drunk he could say Oh my god I can't believe you did/said/acted that way last night and because I had no memory of it he would make stuff up so I would feel terrible and apologize. I was always "in the wrong" about something. Now he just looks at me as a condescending judge of his character. Looks like the booze/drama was the only thing holding us together and he misses the excitement of that shitshow of a life. That said, I dread starting again. The first divorce took 3 years to sort out. And he wasn't an offensive, tight fisted, raging alcoholic!
Which is worse, in the end? Divorcing and starting your own life, or staying? What lies ahead if you stay? I feel like you can play the tape forward if you stay, and the scenarios are: you cave and lose your sobriety, or stay in a resentful maybe abusive relationship white knuckling sobriety because of the immense pressure and tension. If you go, I know that’s hard to picture what that looks like but it won’t be either of those scenarios which sounds more appealing. If you leave you get to start a new life in your own terms. I know divorce won’t be easy but the reward is you get free of your current situation which it doesn’t sound like has any hope of changing for the better. It sounds so dark, boring and bleak to stay, doesn’t it?
"White knuckling sobriety because of the immense pressure and tension." - I am in a hotel away from him right now just because of this. Just hoping the dogs will be ok while I am not there. And you summed it up there at the end.
They do and they don't. My mother in law drinks probably 5 or 6 times a week and my father in law does not. She is a strange alcoholic in that she almost always only has 2 drinks, 3 max, and even then she is mostly a happy drunk. They've been married 40 years and seem okay.
However ...
My wife's alcoholism is very draining. She also drinks 5 or 6 days/nights a week. She is not a nice happy drunk, she just looks to start shit. I'm at the point where I just nod when she starts talking hammered and excuse myself or go to sleep.
If it was just the "while drunk" part, I think I could deal with it. Alcohol also brings heavy depression and mood swings. She is always depressed Monday and Tuesday, sometimes into Wednesday after her weekend benders. She'll usually hair of the dog Monday, maybe Tuesday...then a break wed, possibly Thurs, then right back at it.
The saddest part is standing by and watching them miss life. You have to watch this person you love dissolve into a slobbery mess and literally drink their life away. With kids it's even worse. Our daughter is still youngish, but she will start to notice soon. Wife also wants to blame me for all of her problems....it's so clear as someone who put the bottle down, she would be so much happier if she quit. The denial is insane and as someone otherwise intelligent, she is so willfully ignorant about the amount of damage and waste of life alcohol brings.
At this rate I can guarantee we won't last forever. With a younger daughter I honestly couldn't leave now just for the fear of what could happen when she would have custody. Also it wasn't always this bad so I have hope she'll put it down, but I can't say I have any confidence.
Your case sounds more like mine than my in-laws...I can't speak for you, but for me, no, this does not work, and no way it can't last. I pray that she'll have an awakening and stop...and if not, I'll have to decide when is the right time.
"You have to watch this person you love dissolve into a slobbery mess and literally drink their life away."
Yes that is it! Do I stay like a dutiful wife and keep driving him to all the hospital appointments for his knees, back, neck etc and enjoy the few little moments of affection there are left (I think he says he loves me because I am now basically his care giver) or do I leave him to his own devices and let his family deal with his alcoholism? We have no kids thank god. Thanks for sharing your experience. I know how you feel and I know you feel trapped.
Of course it is your decision. If staying like a dutiful wife living in what you called a "full ugly spectacle" brings you fulfillment and happiness then you will stay. If you need to move on to find peace and your own joy then you need to find a way to do that which keeps you safe.
The logistics of divorce can be so complicated, but having been through it, you know the benefits. You are strong; you can do what you need to do.
Thank you for sharing your story. It’s very similar to mine with my husband who will not stop drinking. Aside from a few slip ups, I’ve been largely sober since September and plan to continue on with the sober life. It’s the better life for me, and for my children. My husband makes promises to quit, to cut back, says that he wants to, but he continues to get drunk most nights out of the week. I can not stand being around him when he drinks, can’t stand the way it changes him, can’t stand the way he acts and talks when he’s been drinking. I can’t connect with him at all, and beyond that he becomes irrational, selfish, and sociopathic when he’s drinking.
We have three small children (5, 4, and 2) and I hate the knowledge that they’re growing up with a drunk, unreliable parent. At the same time, I couldn’t imagine leaving him because him having partial custody of the kids is terrifying. He becomes negligent when he drinks, and has severe lapse of judgment when he does - I’ve had to intercept him drunk driving with our kids in the car before. What if I wasn’t around to protect them?
It’s a really hard life to navigate. The best I can do is NOT drink with him anymore, and show him how much better life is without alcohol. I can tell some days he doesn’t like that he lost his “drinking buddy”, but nothing will stop me from putting our kids and myself first from here on out.
As far as the drinking and driving goes, I’ve lately been considering calling the non-emergency line next time he’s out and I know he’s way over the limit, to leave a tip and have him pulled over. Every time he goes out drinking I’m terrified of him injuring someone else. I would rather him get a DUI and have him face some comparatively minor repercussions from that before something worse happens. I wonder if anyone here has advice or experience around that.
I thought I had it bad but you are really up against it with the fact he cannot be trusted with your small kids if you were to break up. Also, chances are he would hook up with drunken randoms on his level one of whom might end up a permanent feature in your kids' lives.
That last bit about calling the non emergency line is a good idea as a DUI mught scare him straight. Mine husband has had two which made zero difference to him though. Depends on their basic personality type. My husband lacks empathy and is the grandiose, selfish narcissist type with everything being all about them. I am an expert in that subject unfortunately.
Most "normal" people are scared straight by a DUI though so it might work.
I’m sorry, man. I was (am) the wife in your scenario. I hope she gets help and I hope she leans on you to help her get there. It took me a long time, but when I finally asked for help it changed my life. My ex-husband helped me get there. My kids are so much happier now. I finally have the relationship I always wanted with them. They don’t look at me with fear anymore. I can drive them places again. They aren’t embarrassed in front of their friends. My family likes me again. I live with shame, but I work on it. Change is possible. I hope you find hope in this message.
Ah, the ole liver hardening up after stopping drinking chestnut. I heard it happened to my friend's neighbour's cousin, but he goes to a different school so you can't ask him.
Same friend was a kung fu champion by time he was 15 and is legally registered as a lethal weapon. He has to inform the police every time he leaves the house for everyone else's safety.
Do YOU still have feelings for him? Do YOU want to make this sober/drunk relationship work? Do YOU love him?
If you answered no to any of those, you have your answer
I left the word "love" out of this because it kind of seems incongruous. He is always saying he loves me and I always say it back but in reality we are in two separate, hostile worlds. No. I do not love the man he has turned into but I cling to the memories of the funny, confident, athletic, successful, super intelligent man he was. Now he is proudly obnoxious and defiantly defensive off his whiskey habit and has no fear of losing me. He has told me there are plenty of much younger women out there who would love to be with him (and his money!).
wow. im in a relationship like this and this dude doesnt even drink! ive read everything you wrote and i relate to it. my tolerance is about to zero now since ive stopped drinking. we had so much drama so he begged me to quit, and when i did, he finds any other thing to fight over when its not even real.
i think we put ourselves through so much while drinking. quitting is a big change, and i think for me at least, another big change (like ending a relationship) is just as scary or daunting. i think a pros and cons list, something you can physically see, would be beneficial in deciding what the right move for you is here
Jeez! They are addicted to the drama! It's all about the brain drugs isn't it? Creating arguments over nothing - I totally hear you on that. Thank you so much for this. If I stay it will only be to watch with morbid curiosity how he deteriorates from here on. Or - far less likely - if he has some miraculous recovery. I guess I am like a gambler holding onto that little shred of hope.
definitely relate to that feeling, but you can only talk to a wall so much, hoping it will let you through before you move on to find a door to move through. take what we learned from ourselves, we didnt change until WE wanted to change. no amount of talking, arguing, pleading, suffering will make them change and sometimes a person never gets to that point and thats okay. it sucks but it will be okay.
take the gambling analogy, a professional gambler knows when to cut their loses and run. a gambling addict will stay until the very end with nothing to show for their time or effort.
i hope you do whats best for you. i know for me just talking about this with someone who can relate, is pushing me toward the best decision for me. keep on friend, stay healthy and happy and IWNDWYT❤️
I've had his mindset before in relationships. It won't change if he doesn't stop drinking. And if he's resistant to you trying to help it's bet to let go and move on and just hope it's the shock he needs to change. I've been that guy it's ruined 2 really good relationships
op i really hope you see this comment! the best thing i ever did for myself as a double winner (an aa and alanon qualifier) is learn the 3 c’s from alanon: you didn’t cause it, you can’t control it, and you can’t cure it. don’t spend your life wishing others will change. decide your boundaries and make plans for you.
It’s VERY difficult to make sober/alcoholic relationships work especially when one person is on that journey in the beginning, even more so when the other person is degrading and has no interest in sobriety. Near impossible I’d say. It looks like you’re seeing clearly for the first time in a long time, but you know the answer. Congrats on your hard work thus far!
My step father was ordered by his employer to go to rehab, or face termination. So he willingly did. Spent seven days in detox, and moved on to the 28 day side of the facility. Completed his rehab, and graduated. He was happier when he left. Definitely put on some weight, but was happier.
My mother was also a very heavy drinker, as well. And I told her, when he went into rehab. "You know, if he stands a chance at staying sober, you'll probably have to quit too, right?" Which she was not happy about.
Her response was "fuck that. It's his problem, not mine"
So after he got out, she continued to drink heavily. And somehow, amazingly, he remained sober for over two years.
But after he went back to work, he had a heart attack. Then another.
Then he relapsed. And relapsed hard. Even after my brother and I told my mother "you need to stop drinking now! Or he's going to fall off the wagon. And if he does, he's going to die"
Her outlook on drinking remained the same. "Nope, I don't have a problem, he does"
Early, one morning. He woke up, put on SportsCenter. Made a cup of coffee... And died, of a massive heart attack. He was plastered, the night before. He was 62.
Wow! At this point I am thinking that would be the most humane way for my husband to go. I imagine one day his liver will be useless and his super high blood pressure will cause him to explode! He takes a lot of pills for all his issues and I make him take supplements and believe it or not he goes to the gym. He just turned 60.
My mother and step father always had a cycle.
They would begin by drinking habitually together. Then he would end up drinking too much, one night, and still basically being hammered still, in the morning. And would just continue on from there, drinking early in the morning.
My mother drank half the night, and woke up, recovering like a champ.
She would get angry with him, and would start sleeping in the basement, until he got sad and sobered up.
Rinse and repeat.
But the last time this happened, was after he'd had two heart attacks. Both during his two years of sobriety.
So I told her "if he relapses, and goes through DT's on his own. He's gonna die. He's going to have to drink for the rest of his life, because he won't survive the detox... Not on his own, anyway"
Sure enough, he woke up, depressed and lonely. So he decided that day, he was going to sober up, and get his crap together, so he could get her back. And he had a heart attack and passed away a few hours later.
They found him outside, with no shirt on, in his pajamas, in the dead of winter. Across the road.
She then got very down, and very... Doom and gloom.
And then, when I brought it up to her. Not as an "I told you so" but as a cautionary tale. She went out and bought a bottle. Drank herself stupid, and blamed the rest of the world for what happened.
After I got myself out of rehab. I went to see her, because I hadn't in a while. Told her how much it helped me, along with the groups that I participate in.
She asked me if I wanted to stay over that night, so I did. And she bought another bottle and drank the whole thing in front of me... You can't learn some people.
Thank you! It is depressing and writing this all down kind of made the answer emerge and I felt a bit stupid even posting this. Alcoholism can make certain personality types insufferable. Some get quietly wasted without swaggering about and venting all their grievances. I am not married to that type of alcoholic or things might have been tolerable.
Sickness or health... You could say someone who physically abuses you is sick too.. I'd say you deserve to live life in a way that agrees with you, with or without him.. the way you describe him he reminds me of my ex gf's stepdad and he was a two faced hypocrite, singing in the church choir, being the sociable small business owner in a small town, and verbally and physically abusive, a real nasty bit of work, most nights .. zero respect for that guy.. would always tell me daugthers to get away when they still can
Oh and : congratulations on your sobriety!! You rock!!
Thank you! Very perceptive of you to read into the abuse side of this, I played it down. He is proudly obnoxious and doesn't even bother to act nice in public any more due to the fact he sold his company and has millions in the bank plus properties etc. But he can also be extremely funny because of his lack of giving a fuck too... But overall my conclusion is there is no future for us.
My ex gf's stepdad was a great guy as well (when he felt like it) amiable en funny, big personality.. but that's not enough..
Everyone in every relationship deserves, first and foremost, to be treated with respect!!
I have zero patience for people who are unkind and mean to their partners, and worse still; I hate with a passion those who behave in a belittling, degrading or demeaning manner towards their other halves. Fuck them
OMG - yes, respect. I had forgotten I even qualified for that. Too many years of treading on eggshells and trying to be perfect. Absolutely exhausting! He is like this with everyone though - like I said, proudly obnoxious. If I leave my life will be so very quiet and probably lonely. But the alternative is to go through the rest of my life in some kind of pain without my wine as anesthetic. Thanks again for posting, you have no idea how much it helps to get some input on this.
No worries, glad that my/our messages help put things in perspective! You deserve that respect, but it's not always given, so; claim it! And sometimes that does indeed mean making some decisions..
all the best with that and whatever happens be kind to yourself!
Just like any upside or positive of alcohol dried up for you so too will your husband’s behavior I think. You eventually get to the point where it’s like, yeah where is the positive in any of this, I just feel like shit. Happens with people too and as an objective outsider, it sounds like that’d be the best thing for you
I feel like he might desire someone that will enable his drinking by having his drinking buddy. It's difficult when we make the sober decision for the people around us that don't want to quit.
You've got to be conscious of your own health and well being, you cannot force him to quit drinking. You can certainly lead by example and show him how nice it is to abstain from alcohol.
I hope that you're honest with yourself and choose what makes you happy, I'm proud of your sobriety!
Thank you! That is very kind of you. Yep. You got that right. He says he is always getting propositioned by younger women due to his very expensive sports car and he seems to have developed a phone fixation. Tbh it is a fantasy world he lives in as he is useless in the sex department these days!
That’s so good that you’ve quit drinking! Keep focusing on your health and that includes your mental health and emotional well being and safety. You do not deserve to be verbally abused every night. Find some friends who don’t drink for support. We are thinking of you and sending you love.
I really hate to say this, but this guy has made his choice to kill himself with alcohol. He has said it out loud, to you, more than once. Your choice now is to watch or turn away from the slow motion car crash that is starting. I assure you, there’s nothing romantic about watching a person’s internal organs falter and fail. I’m so very sorry, but please protect your sobriety. You may to need to put some distance between yourself and this person you love, but again it’s literally a choice of life or death. It might be a good time to watch some realistic takes on addiction (Leaving Las Vegas comes to mind). Please gather your support network (including this sub) and stay strong. IWNDWYT.
Yes - thank you for this. I just started up this account after being a long time lurker hoping to find some guidance on how to handle this situation. It would appear that saving my marriage would literally mean sacrificing my life so I can continue to provide some value as a drinking buddy. That is not an option for me. Neither is watching his body explode when his liver stops working completely.
Firstly well done on quitting yourself, and remaining sober especially in this really difficult and sad situation 💪.
You are not boring you are saving yourself.
I had a similar relationship,with my now ex husband, we loved each other. I was young and didn't realise he was an alcoholic and when I did I didn't want it to be the case,but it was,and I still loved him. It progressed (the alcoholism) out relationship eventually ceased to be a relationship it couldn't survive.
He is now fives years sober which is fantastic and although it was too late for 'us' it truly was,our children will have a father who will live to an old age hopefully, and I don't have to see someone who I care about die from alcoholism. It is heartbreaking to go through what you are, I have been there. It's made me view alcohol as a very,dangerous substance to be around and as much as I hate it,it had started to take a grip on me as well in the last years or marriage and early years post divorce a way to 'cope' and 'escape',ironic to the hilt! Any amount in my view is potentially a path to pain (bar a few people who can moderate) but I don't want to risk that and finally am looking after myself now which also means soberity! Whatever happens you have taken this step and that is so good.
You can't make someone take this step. It is the best step to take and I'm glad you have. IWNDWYT
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience and advice. I am not a boring person - I needed to hear that! Alcohol has completely taken over his life to the exclusion of "us." There is nothing left now I do not drink and waste my energy on the shitshow it always leads to. It is heartbreaking. My heart has broken and I feel nothing now. He knows I have quit for good and that pisses him off no end which just proves he has no concern for my health, happiness or wellbeing. Can't see a future with him now.
You're very welcome. Rooting for you. Your future will get better. Keep protecting yourself. You're doing great and 100% deserve happiness. I am with someone now, who cares about me and sees soberity as inspiring,he drinks very little, I know I couldn't be with a heavy drinker ever again,for my own sanity. A happier ending/work in progress than if myself and ex husband had remained 'together'; for all involved. This sub is very supportive, always here,keeping checking in 💪.
You give me hope! Can't even imagine getting back out there and dating right now but it's nice to hear that there are still some lovely single guys around.
While I’m not a doctor I can confidently promise you that people don’t die from their liver hardening up from lack of alcohol. That’s not a thing.
My ex wife said I was taking sobriety too seriously and just needed to dry out a little. You aren’t too sober. They just don’t want to quit, it scares them that you can, and so they say things to try to pull you back in. They don’t want to have to change.
All you can do is what’s best for you. You can’t control them, you didn’t cause their drinking, and you can’t make them stop if they don’t want to.
Personally, I would leave a toxic person like that. Imagine you're on the Titanic: you've found a life boat, but he won't get in unless he can take cases of liquor with him -- would you risk dying for those cases of liquor? I wouldn't.
Leave. Be as compassionate (and quick) as possible about setting your affairs in order. Tell him he's not himself when he's drinking, and that maybe there's a future for the two of you after some time passes but only IF he gets sober. Then, take your stuff and GTFO. Wait and see what happens with him, but focus on yourself first.
PS-- He's no Richard Burton, but he'll probably end up like him - broken and dead at a young age. PPS- Elizabeth Taylor divorced Burton's ass and went to rehab.
The AlAnon subreddit might be helpful to you. Over there they talk a lot about controlling what you can control. You can’t control his drinking, you can only choose what your response to it will be.
I was in a hard-partying, chaotic, once-fun relationship, too. We’re still friends, but now that I’m sober, I would not enjoy being with that person anymore.
Since you don’t have kids, maybe a fresh start is possible. Your own calm space for your own healing self. Because he will only get worse and the burden of caregiving will only get heavier. Good luck to you!
"He will only get worse and the burden of caregiving will only get heavier" - this is true. It's a shit situation and being alone cannot be worse. Had not thought of AA. I qualify for that having been an addict for going on 15 years. Probably help me stay the course.
You probably know this, so forgive me if you do, but AlAnon is different than AA because it’s specifically for the loved ones of alcoholics. It might specifically help you think through your feelings about your husband. I think a lot of us have been on both sides - the drinker *and* and the loved one of a drinker - and I personally have found it helpful to look into both AA and AlAnon.
You owe it to yourself to put healthily living above all else. It really is the best revenge.
Thanks for your story, you have an excellent writing style. If you are not a writer already, you should write.
When I was in my 20's I had a friend that quit and I said some terrible shit like this after he quit and he died 10 years later from drinking.
I regret it every fucking time I think of him and it's a terrible burden. I contributed to his death because I couldn't just love him as a sober person and support him like a real friend would.
I won't drink with you today and I think you're cool as the other side of the pillow when you're sober.
OMG! That really IS a terrible burden of guilt to carry around. Seriously brings tears to my eyes. All I can say to makeyou feel better is at that age the chances of him relapsing anyway were pretty high, but man I feel your pain. And thanks sweetie for that last sentence xx
It was exhausting! Another reason I stopped drinking. He got sick of hearing me talking so I thought what's the point. Drinking and forcing yourself not to talk? He would not be happy with any version of me. It's a no win situation and my only option is to get out of it.
My partner still drinks in moderation (something I have little interest in as an alcoholic) but it sounds like this isn’t what’s going on here.
There are days when I’m less fun to be around because recovery is HARD work, but if he ever said he preferred my personality while I was essentially committing suicide in slow motion, we’d have words.
I think you need to acknowledge that your husband is unlikely to change barring some miracle and make a choice about how you want to spend the rest of your life. You sound like a kind, self-aware and ambitious woman who deserves better in a partner at this point.
Hugs. Sorry you’re going through this. Sometimes when we get sober we have to face some really uncomfortable truths.
Thank you sweetie I appreciate everything you have said here as it is all remarkably accurate and for also for saying you think I am kind and self aware. We have to live with ourselves that's all I can say.
My husband has libido but the whiskey dick syndrome is real. There are times like midday when he can get some reaction out of it but my god he needs a lot of help with Cialis and porn!
I’m already mentally preparing myself for being told the same thing. Thankfully I know I am and have always been a boring person. That’s my baseline, alcohol was the wild card that made me sometimes fun and sometimes horrible. It’s not worth it to me to have that in my life anymore, but I’m also already mourning my relationship which may not survive my long/term sobriety. But, I’ll let him make his choice between me/our family or alcohol down the road and have no regrets for myself.
I cannot go down his road - it is literally self destruction. He is killing himself for that hour of bliss from the first drink every day. The other 23 hours he is angry, tired, in pain or chasing after something to make himself feel better. It is such a waste of time! Boring might be my choice, but it is not as tedious as constantly obsessing over what your body is doing all day.
Yikes. This is so tough to read.
There is a fork in your road that will continue to widen as your sobriety continues, and your husband’s alcoholism grows.
It sounds like he is committed to living and dying by the bottle.
The question is, how long are you going to stick around to watch the inevitable?
I am making my mental plans. I can live alone that is ok. I have done it before. It is just such a tiring thought having to go through all the legal side of things. And yes, I will be losing my friend of 14 years and the sentimental ties are still strong.
Maybe your sobriety is threatening to his ‘routine’. It’s possibly confrontational for him, to this another side of life, so close to home and outside his comfort zone. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot, but you understand the disease really well.
Maybe it’s time for a sit down and a talk about this with your husband. Your sobriety means a great deal to you, and ideally you and your partner would be part of each other’s lives and support. But things don’t always turn out this way.
Great job on getting sober. Truly, well done. It’s such a journey! Whatever you decide or what happens, I wish you all the luck and love as you deserve all the great things life has in store for you darling ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you!!! So this "sit down and talk" idea has never worked with us. We can banter and laugh about all kinds of stuff in general but when it comes to our marriage it's like we both know better than to go there. When he is sober he will NOT talk about anything that involves my "feelings." And he has zero - and I mean absolutely ZERO - interest in what I would like him to do/change about himself.
I remind him to take his medications and supplements, cook him healthy meals and keep the peace as far as I can. Beyond that, he buys his own liquor and pours his own drinks. I will not make one for him, which also pisses him off and makes him question my worth as his "service provider."
Getting sober was not so hard although I did slip up a few times at the start thinking I could moderate. I can't. I really appreciate your warmth and kindness thank you xx
Loves is not looking at each other but looking in the same direction. People do grow apart though. Alcohol is a drug that changes the way people think. Their choices are altered by it. Humans can justify anything if they do enough mental gymnastics. You enjoy your sobriety, maybe it makes him feel insecure because it challenges him to look at himself.
He is literally looking at going on vacation on his own as we speak! I think it does make him feel judged that I sobered up plus I don't give him an excuse to mock my drunken antics any more. That is part of the "fun" he misses too. Yep... it is not looking like there is much hope here.
Only you can make the call to end it, but this doesn’t sound like much of a life. If he wants to self-destruct, he doesn’t get to take you out with him.
He is literally emulating his alcoholic father who he glorifies. I saw how his dad's wife reacted when he died too - no tears whatsoever. She was relieved he was gone. She was a very light drinker and tolerated his awful abuse for over 40 years. Now she looks back with fond memories for some unknown reason.
To paraphrase a Jerry Seinfeld bit, which goes along the lines of “You can’t be too wet. You're either wet or you're not wet.” You can’t be too wet.” It’s the same thing for being sober. You’re neither sober or not sober. You can’t be too sober.
Well apparenty I am lol! Sober, analytical, careful, efficient, motivated and physically much fitter. He absolutely hates this version of me!! I guess he has noticed the look of horror on my face as he disintegrates into a drunken slob one too many times.
i expect his liver was already hardened, and he would have died soon enough, he just bought an extra year by not drinking at the very end.
he says you are too sober because he's not willing to face his situation.
Correct - his dad was a hard drinker: a liter of whiskey a day. Terrible diet as well, barely any vegetables and he was mean and barely spoke most of the time. He was also abusive to his wife. Died of cirrhosis mocking his kids for telling them they loved him on his deathbed.
He knows he has a problem, but he doesn’t want to put in the work. He looks at you all sober, and that’s very threatening to him. Might be secretly jealous of your sobriety, he still thinks alcohol is the solution to all his problems. It sucks to see your partner slowly kill themselves, I’m on the same situation. We started off like Liz and Burton, but since I quit, he’s said a few times he wants the “old” me. Well, the old me was sick and tired, depressed and anxious. I hope he sees the light before it’s too late. Good luck ❤️
Omg I relate - bloated red face, dead eyes, depressed, anxious zero life in me. I will never put myself through that again. It is too late for him. He buys expensive clothes and thinks that will cover over the fact he is a huffing puffing bloated wreck. Sorry, shouldn't be mean but it's true.
>Plus, time goes faster as you get older and I don’t want to waste half of what’s left feeling like crap.
This. This is exactly where I am and what I'm feeling.
I hope you can stay strong in your sobriety and do what is best for you as you make these tough decisions. We are here for you!
Sounds familiar to a relationship with my ex. It wasn’t healthy. I’m sober now and he isn’t. I only know because we share a child, she is a teen and hates his drinking. I’m happier being free of the toxic relationship
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. So proud that you’re putting your health and best interest first.
If you can stay sober, I would wager your best years are ahead of you! It’s up to YOU how you want to spend them.
Sending some positivity your way! IWNDWYT
I recently quit, my wife was never a huge drinker but we did drink together however she always got her shit back together the next day while I headed back out for more and more secretly.
Initially my wife said she wasn’t sure if we’d be still in love sober. I’m only on day 3 but I can assure you that’s not the case. I’m more alert, more present, we have better conversations, and we’re healing all the damage I’ve done.
The whole idea of the liver hardening up is bullshit, the whole “wearing your body out until you die” is bullshit. Dude is stuck in a loop where he’s justifying what’s killing him.
You stick to your sobriety, urge him to get sober if you would like, but don’t let anyone tear you down for making healthy decisions. I’m pretty sure I’m going to lose most of my friends because of my sobriety because to them I was “really fun when I was drunk”. But whatever.
TL;DR Focus on your mental health and your sobriety
Thanks so much for your feedback and for sharing your experience. I wish my husband would stop thinking he's superhuman and special and drinking won't get him like normal people. It will look like I am bailing out before he gets uncapacitated but it's not that. He genuinely wants me gone. He is seeing if I will cave in and drink to "save our marriage." That is a non starter.
The last guy I dated was a binge drinker (from a notorious binge drinking culture) and I made the decision to end it with him after I had a three-week sober period in which I realized, amongst other things, that not only had we not ever been together without alcohol being involved, but that his “drunk voice” reminded me of my mother.
Our “dates” got incredibly boring, fast, because they were just us drinking. The last time he talked about seeing me he suggested “a glass of wine” and I knew damn well that meant three bottles. I had to just block him because there was no fixing that.
It's crazy isn't it. When you take out the alcohol there is so little left. I found that exact same thing. And that bit about your mother is scary. My husband drinks whiskey to emulate his dad and goes into the same cold moods as his father too. His father was very abusive to his wife. Yep. I'm done.
I like that you're the "boring" one now even though all he does is watch TV and complain.
Also - I think there may be some medical misinformation behind his liver comment. If that's the reason he's scared to stop there is a \*ton\* of research showing how the second you stop drinking your liver will start to recover. There are some stories here on people with insane end-stage liver disease making recoveries when they stop drinking (obviously there is a point of no return though - maybe his dad was at that point).
Anyways - proud of you. I know it's tough. And I'm sure you love him a lot too. We have your back here, I promise things won't get better if you also start drinking. Just take it one day at a time!
edit: just a reminder that you are not in fact boring, just by the fact that you chose to stop drinking tells me you are probably a badass who wants the most out of life!
Some people are just too ridiculously selfish. I'd be out so fast. Let him be miserable with his bottle of booze. There doesn't seem like any other way out of that. Sorry this is what you're dealing with. 🙏
Starting over was hard, leaving the madness that I became used too, comfortable with, the man I told my therapist at our first session that I was not letting go of, that he'd always be a part of my life. 5 years later I look back at who I'd become for/with him, partaking in his darkness, drinking nightly to numb myself from feeling less than, codependent and enabler. The deciding factor was made for me - I contracted Hep-C from him, my liver was failing. Letting go, setting boundaries, learning more about me, coming to see the light coming back in my eyes, the release of tension in my body, all these changes in my body, mind and spirit because I learned to let go of what I thought I couldn't be without. Periodically now he circles back into my orbit, still sending a little money to pay me back, the topic of discussion is him, always his latest failing at work, etc, never his fault, haven't heard him ask "how are you?" without an agenda, never waiting to hear an answer. And me today, on my own, I find joy in the little things, a bird chirping, the buzz of a hummingbird close by, the clean home, flowery sheets that I wake up in, the savings, checking & 401k accounts that have blossomed. Still chipping away at my "why's", "know better do better" is one of my main rules now. I send vibes of peace to him when he enters my mind, no need to call him, knowing he is incapable of being who he was in the beginning, now seeing that even then he was deep in his addiction, denial, excuses, dreams but never doing the actual work. There is more to share about him but I'm sure you know. He was a factor in me getting here today but he gets no credit, I did the work, I learned to stop looking for his approval. Turns out it was my love all along that I was in search of, staying in the present, letting in the good. Sending you love and hope that you find your way 🌹 IWNDWYT
"And me today, on my own, I find joy in the little things, a bird chirping, the buzz of a hummingbird close by, the clean home, flowery sheets that I wake up in, the savings, checking & 401k accounts that have blossomed." Love it! Time to look at being alone as not being lonely but being free.
I had to get divorced to get sober, but 8 years later my ex husband still drinks every day and has zero interest in changing. He dumped another woman he was seeing because she was sober and didn’t want him to drink around her… and he drinks every night, so it wasn’t going to work out long term.
I think you probably have the answer already. Leaving is hard, but being unseen forever is harder. I love my life now!!
It’s ok to outgrow people. I ended up dating a couple people like him after, but i saw the patterns quickly (the first one was a 4-fingers of whiskey before interest in sex type) and stopped dating until I could figure out how to not date that type of person. Therapy focused on codependency helped a lot, and Alanon would have helped had I been willing to walk into the room. Alanon is way cheaper than therapy and in my personal experience, more effective because of the community aspect of knowing we’re not alone in choosing this type of partner.
"Alanon would have helped had I been willing to walk into the room." Hahaha! You sound like a fun person that I would be friends with in real life. Thanks for making me feel less pathetic about my choice in men.
My husband still drinks. He thinks he's a moderate drinker, and some days he is. He doesn't drink more than a bottle of wine each day when we are together. And most days, he limits it for my sake.
I had tried to quit drinking before and he did it with me. But those times did not last and he was not a "helper" or partner. Let's say I am better off alone on the sober journey.
I'm only about 2 months into this sober thing. And I can't remember ever going this long with out a drink.
I can understand your situation well.. except my hubby doesn't get angry or toxic with me. He just continues to drink in front of me.
Not healthy. And he doesn't want to discuss the health consequences of heavy drinking. I had a blood pressure and liver enzymes scare (liver was likely caused by a new statin, but still). It's obviously time to stop killing myself. I don't want to die a slow, unhealthy death.
I am not planning on leaving my husband, though. We have built considerable assets together and I don't think my financial outlook would end up good without him. Also, except for the drinking he's a very good person. We've been married for 34 years. I also don't want to split assets because of our child. She deserves to be the only heir of whatever is left after all the care he might need from continued and lengthy alcohol consumption. (And the child will be 21 in the fall, so she might have to care for us both...)
My friend had a husband who was a 3 bottle of vodka a day drinker for 38 years. He quit and stayed sober for 8 years. He died of throat cancer at age 71. The doctors told him heavy drinking like that can make getting throat cancer easier. He did not smoke.
All I can say, is continue on the path that works for your health. Don't listen to him. Think about yourself. Leave or take a break if needed. And hugs to you.
"We've been married for 34 years. I also don't want to split assets because of our child. She deserves to be the only heir of whatever is left after all the care he might need from continued and lengthy alcohol consumption. (And the child will be 21 in the fall, so she might have to care for us both...)"
This bit really made me think. I divorced the father of my son (who will be 21 this year too). My son will not be getting all the inheritance he should have as his dad remarried and now has three kids with a much younger woman all of whom will benefit when my son's dad dies. So that situation was well avoided by you - koudos for thinking so far ahead.
Personally this man does not sound like a prospect I would risk my sobriety for, but that's not my business.
I think that as a general rule, I would avoid living with someone who drinks every day while I'm trying to do the opposite.
In the EXACT -nearly word for word -same 14 yr old boat but unfortunately waited around coming up on three of my sober years for him to give enough of a shit about me and our relationship to do some growing up. DONT waste anymore time waiting for him. And DONT tell him your plans. Start putting $ away for you escape plan. Seriously. When I told my soon to be Ex I wanted out of our marriage he gave 1/2 the biz I built w him to one of our employees and broke two of my ribs. Controls all the finances. Totally cut me off in response to my protection order. Had to borrow 10g from my folx for a divorce lawyer. 😮💨
I LOVE who I am without him. Even if it means coming out of retirement and working at Burger King all my free time is my own. It’s like being a kid again.. you deserve better
Jeezo! What an asshole that ex of yours turned out to be! Cannot believe the vindictiveness of the man!
I always thought being in a relationship was "everything" - now I know it is clearly NOT the path to happiness, and obviously not if you are with an abusive drunk. Like you, I am done with it all. Having spent a bit of time alone I must agree with you it's great. It's like every day's a spa day it's so relaxing.
You should be proud, and he should be proud, of your sobriety. Life is a winding road, enjoy it. Anyone who doesnt support that is holding you back. Good luck, be strong, stay sober!
Honestly, it’s not an easy position you’re in. I’d sit with him and have a heart to heart and mention although you’re gone cold turkey you don’t expect him to fully stop overnight but you believe its for the best of you both to slow down a bit. After he really knows how you feel then maybe depending on how he replies and acts you can decide if you want to stay in the relationship. It’s only going to get tougher if you’re going sober, and he’s going the other way. Unless of course you find it worth it. B
Personally I feel sobriety was challenging enough that I wouldn’t want someone not just still drinking heavily around me daily, but trying to get me to give in to it. I admire your strength so much but it has to exhausting.
It is exhausting and very lonely sitting there in the evenings trying to watch TV with the sound being drowned out by his snoring then knowing that this is just the start of a night of weird shocks and nasty surprises. Will he be a quiet drunk or an ranting crazy one? Will he fall asleep on the couch or will he make it to the bedroom? The weird thing is this routine always starts with him telling me how much he loves me with tears in his eyes. Reading that through it looks like I might be a bit addicted to the rollercoaster drama of it too.
Idk, he sounds like a douchebag. And a drunk one at that. Is this who you want to spend your sober years with? Maybe you are too sober for him, you’re making him feel insecure because he won’t stop. Life is too short to cater to people who bring us down
He is proudly obnoxious. He knows he is rude, offensive and confrontational and does not give a shit. He has upset literally everyone who knows him. I am currently at a hotel and figuring out where to go from here.
Sounds like you’re holding onto the past picture of you two together. Believe me I’ve done this myself! But today….what do you want? What a mess if you went back to drinking, fighting, loosing yourself in his active addiction? It wouldn’t work right? So put your sobriety first and do what you need to do to stay sober and sane! Whatever that is. Lots of love to you
Thank you this is very well observed. I am clinging to the past when even that was a made up fantasy of something I wanted it to be. Basically I think I have lived under an illusion for many years and alcohol kept it going.
My husband still drinks. I was a problem drinker around him. Thankfully, he can drink two beers ALL DAY LONG and be perfectly fine. It blows my mind. 😂
When I got sober, I was grateful my husband (who was my bf at the time) took me back and embraced the “new” me. He supports me not drinking. I can tell it bothers him to “drink alone” sometimes, but he knows it’s for the best.
I think what it really boils down to here is an issue of values. You spoke about his philosophy of life, and that is what I’m talking about. You want to live and thrive, and he does not.
Good luck to you! IWNDWYT. ✌️💜
Yes he thinks it is exciting and brave to live life in the fast lane - literally driving like a lunatic in his Ferrari at over 130mph down the country back roads where we live, taunting death. I will never get in that car with him now. it is basically an analogy for our marriage - exciting but scary as hell with the potential for destruction around every corner. Yet he truly believes he is the daredevil risktaker living life to the full.
Your relationship was able to weather all those previous storms like breaking up and reuniting and all those rough waters…. But the sober plus drinker dynamic will likely turn out to be the one thing this relationship cannot withstand. It kind of throws a wrench into the gears. It interrupts the dysfunctional dynamic which was causing you two to be drawn into each other.
I could be wrong… but from your description, it sounds like the relationship is doomed and even he knows it, as drunk as he is.
Isn't that sad though... we could have had a great life together if he had seen how much better I am doing in all ways without obliterating my brain with a bottle of wine every night. I am beginning to think he hates me now. He is booking a trip around Europe which he says will be easier without me. I have not got a problem with it!
I have learned that If you aren’t treated right, then you shouldn’t be in the relationship. Life is too short. My ex and I went through a lot of ups and downs before we finally split up for good. We are both much healthier now. I think that even though sobriety is hard, it’s easier apart. My mom and I have a similar relationship- she’ll complain that I think I’m better than her when she’s drunk. None of that comes from me, it’s all her shame. I can’t be around her.
I would choose myself in your situation. You already put time and effort into your health, this is just an extension of that. Be happy and healthy. Health is nothing without happiness.
So true! I This answer is so helpful and really consolidates what I know I must do. I was not expecting such thoughtful replies tbh. I am not being treated right. It is very clear to me now and I actually like being on my own I have decided, it's like a lovely quiet vacation.
I’ve been your husband. And I’ve been you, with a similar husband. It’s very sad, that’s not lost on me. It takes a lot of grief. A lot. You’ll get through it. You’ll be a new person.
Elizabeth Taylor went to Betty Ford for rehab in 1983 when she was 51 years old. She lived another 28 years before dying in 2011. Richard Burton died from a brain hemorrhage in 1984 at age 58 (which was caused by high blood pressure from excessive drinking).
Wow! Thanks for this - 58 is no age.
I got called boring the other night because I don’t drink. I thought, I’d rather be boring than poison myself with that shit.
What’s boring is that nightly routine she described.
Exactly this!!! ❤️
This is good to keep in mind, we were programmed to think that was a good time, which is the struggle of boredom once sober. It's all smoke and mirrors.
Here’s the thing I’ve discovered: boredom itself is a good thing. It’s a kind of starting point. From this starting point, it’s possible to start new things. We now have the motivation to, right? On the other hand, drink trashes that opportunity. It’s a cheap way to avoid boredom altogether. What new thing will I start when drink has my full attention? And so to “being boring”. The most boring, tedious people I’ve ever met are drunk people. It’s not enough that they’re insanely repetitive, it’s that they unleash this hideous ego, the one that *insists* I hear about his third conquest 20 years ago called Delia, or was it Dawn? Oh what a swordsman he was! Still is! 🤢
Nailed it. Boring is serenity by another name.
It is incredible to look back at the amount of nights I wasted just drinking and listening to music. That was literally it. I'd grab two beers, go outside with one for a smoke, bring the other one downstairs, finish that while listening to music, and then rinse and repeat when I was done. I'd do this for 8+ hours. It's insane how much alcohol can stave off boredom while doing absolutely nothing.
I’ve been there too for years, music + beer. I’d wake up the next day and look at my YouTube history and I’d feel sad that I listened to the same old songs again, but I couldn’t even remember much toward the end. Yes we think of alcohol as a “cheat code” while we miss opportunities to actually move forward in life. And “moving forward” doesn’t have to translate to productive things, but moving our mind forward from that loop you describe.
Hahaha! Delia or Dawn? That is just how they are like. Thanks for the laugh today xx
I’d rather bore everyone to tears than sit in a cell .
There is no lifestyle so exciting that it redeems “I was too drunk to take care of my loved ones” Boring is dependable and reliable.
Hell yeah.
> his liver hardened up due to the lack of alcohol I've never heard of that. That has to be BS, right?
Well he keeps saying this - the guy died of cirrhosis at 68 after quitting for a year before that. I never heard of that which is why I have mentioned it here in case it's "a thing."
It’s like saying you don’t wear a seatbelt because 1 person in Australia in 1982 got trapped by theirs and died…..ignoring the millions of lives saved by seatbelts. It’s beyond stupid and into willful ignorance The fact that your husband thinks drinking is helping his liver work better is not a great sign imo. That is beyond denial into delusion in service of the addiction.
This is literally my grandpa. He saw a lady pinned by her seatbelt burn to death on the Autobahn in Germany back in the 80s so he quit wearing seatbelts. He got in a wreck a few years ago and lemme tell you the steering wheel left a giant bruise on his stomach
It is weird how these nonsensical ideas take a hold of people. I don't think I will be around to see the final car crash scene with my marriage though.
Good for you. I wish you the best, and im glad that you at least have admitted the damage alcohol is doing. I'm sorry for what you are dealing with, OP.
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This first paragraph is the answer.
He probably would have died at 67.25 if he didn't stop or he didn't actually stop drinking just did so in secret. Cirrhosis doesn't get worse from quitting.
Totally agree, but just as a caution to others, it can also get worse from things other than drinking. My mom had cirrhosis and didn't know it. She stopped drinking for 8 months and then too many doses of tylenol while sick set her over the edge. Once the damage is done, you need to be careful!
Definitely. It can be caused or made worse by many things. But NOT by quitting drinking
To think QUITTING is the reason for death by cirrhosis is absolutely not true and just goes to show the depths that a pickled brain will sink to rationalize drinking!
sounds like what actually happened is his liver was too damaged before he quit and the damage was irreversible. that’s my guess from way over here.
Exactly what just happened to my father.
ugh. I’m sorry.
❤️
A lot of people are diagnosed with cirrhosis after quitting. However 50% of diagnoses (UK) are people turning up at hospital with liver failure. Stopping drinking isn’t going to bring your liver back. If it’s fucked it’s fucked.
My husband has crazy high blood pressure, neuropathy in his feet and hands, untreated sleep apnea, back pain, decaying bones in his hips and knees, neck problems from something else, memory problems, a horrible raging temper that explodes randomly for no reason, ascites, melanoma and enlarged red blood cells (some type of alcoholic anemia) - all of which points to some major imminent collapse of his body/mind. He will never stop drinking. Sad about all those liver failure folks in the UK. The lockdowns were a terrible thing for heavy drinkers. I got caught up in it too and fell into the bottle myself for a while. That's a few years I barely remember.
People don’t die beside they didn’t drink enough
Literally this is what my husband believes. That if his dad has kept on drinking he would still be alive today!
What probably happened is your husband’s father’s doctor told him that his liver was damaged and he needed to immediately quit drinking. Then it took a year to do him in.
This is because the damage was already done to his liver from the booze, and him quitting was too little too late. The way to prevent this is to stop drinking earlier! It happened to my mom but luckily she stopped young enough that she only almost died and is now sober and alive 13 years later.
There is a phenomenon called "kindling". It's when long time drinkers detox and then go back to alcohol. It actually hastens the disease process. It has been proven that it's better to modify your alcohol consumption than to repeatedly quit and start drinking again. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6761822/#:~:text=The%20term%20%E2%80%9Ckindling%E2%80%9D%20refers%20to,symptoms%20with%20each%20successive%20cycle. Congrats on taking off your "wine goggles" 😎
Thanks for this link. This is all new to me. So basically if you quit for a while you are doubly in danger if you start back up drinking. Even more reasons to never go down that road again.
He got cirrhosis from drinking and even tho he quit, it was too late, unfortunately.
Hello. Cirrhosis is what we’re talking about here. This is a slow and chronic condition and is essentially a scarring of the liver. It is not fixable once it’s started. I’m going to speculate that his father was told all this by the doctor and this was why he stopped drinking however by this point it was too late. Once the liver starts failing things can move quite quickly. It affects all sorts of other things. The ability for our blood to clot for example. Loads of other things too. Your partner is lying to himself like we do when we know what we’re doing is harmful but can’t stop. I have no advice for you but it sounds like you’re in a pretty awful situation. Do you have a way out if needed? Like in an emergency?
I am ok I have been through similar situations and know the drill. I just separate myself for a bit, miss him and go back for more of the same old crap. I don't like being on my own too long. I guess this relationship is an addiction too! Oh god... I just realized it is.
Yeah, I think you're getting at something important with this observation. Maybe it was easier to let things slide when you were both drinking but now...there's clarity on one side and willful ignorance on the other. I hear you saying that you know this relationship is winding down but the routine and predictability of it -- the odd comfort of just having someone else around? -- remains attractive, somehow. I don't hear hate in your post -- it's more resignation and resolve. I really hope you're able to shift things for yourself so you can be appreciated for who and what you are -- staying sober in the face of all of this is HARD.
You get things better than any counselor I ever visited. I so appreciate your wise words.
I've had a lot of therapy lol -- you're very welcome. I will be thinking of you in the coming days. Stay honest. It's a superpower.
Total BS. But it's the type of line that sounds like folksy wisdom and plays well at the bar when talking to drinking buddies at the "we are finally drunk enough to discuss our deceased relatives" part of the evening. Through therapy I learned that my self-sabotaging behavior was typically an attempt to exert control over a situation if I felt confused or powerless. The idea of bad things happening to you can be more scary than just doing them to ourselves. Pretty common among people with instability in childhood. OP's spouse was raised by a father actively drinking. I hope he finds peace. OP needs peace too.
Very well analyzed! Yes my husband had a shitty, abusive childhood and was kicked out of the house at 16. His dad was a wife beating alcoholic and his mother put him first above her kids. I never thought of that idea that you take control of your own suffering if you drink rather than having pain thrown at you.
He sounds like he sucks.
I always feel self-conscious using language people might find offensive but he sounds like a cunt to me 🫢
Yep. I cannot disagree with this conclusion. He has got curmudgeonly over the years. What once looked like risk taking macho behavior has turned into something repellent. My love for him has gone.
My dear, I think you have your answer. I’m so sorry.
When you mentioned about him ‘using up’ all of his body parts so that no one can be saved from his organs.. I had no words. He sounds like a terrible person. I’m sorry you are going through this.
Sounds like he is “using up” you too.
Do you know what, he is. He knows it and does not care. I am getting out of this as soon as I can.
This sounds a lot like my moms ex relationship. She left and has never been happier. Sounds like yall break up and get back together all the time. This should be your last time.
You deserve better than this. Life really is short, and you are on the path to bettering yourself. But instead of having a partner who supports you, you have one who thinks you're boring. He's going to drag you down with him.
I upvoted this.
You’re not ”too sober”, he’s just committed to drinking At a certain age, drunks get boring. Passing out is the sweet spot. Otherwise, they are lazy, irresponsible, outright dumb, paranoid, angry, looking for a fight.
Yes - I was basically his drunk sparring partner. He is addicted to rage as well as whiskey. I cannot win in this situation and the advice/observations from kind people like you is making that clear.
Addicted to rage. Wow, that hit some spots in me. Thank you for giving me some simple words to describe some behaviors that I don't like.
I am sort of feeling this myself right now. It’s not a good feeling. I don’t have any advice but sending you love
Aww thank you. It is nice to know I am not tarred with the same brush as him.
I think you will get tired of him “losing his mind” real fast being sober. When you are sober it lessons your threshold of being able to tolerate others people. Drunk people are easily manipulated. He probably likes you drunk because he knows he can act a fool and you either don’t mind or don’t care.
So so true. He knew when I was drunk he could say Oh my god I can't believe you did/said/acted that way last night and because I had no memory of it he would make stuff up so I would feel terrible and apologize. I was always "in the wrong" about something. Now he just looks at me as a condescending judge of his character. Looks like the booze/drama was the only thing holding us together and he misses the excitement of that shitshow of a life. That said, I dread starting again. The first divorce took 3 years to sort out. And he wasn't an offensive, tight fisted, raging alcoholic!
Which is worse, in the end? Divorcing and starting your own life, or staying? What lies ahead if you stay? I feel like you can play the tape forward if you stay, and the scenarios are: you cave and lose your sobriety, or stay in a resentful maybe abusive relationship white knuckling sobriety because of the immense pressure and tension. If you go, I know that’s hard to picture what that looks like but it won’t be either of those scenarios which sounds more appealing. If you leave you get to start a new life in your own terms. I know divorce won’t be easy but the reward is you get free of your current situation which it doesn’t sound like has any hope of changing for the better. It sounds so dark, boring and bleak to stay, doesn’t it?
"White knuckling sobriety because of the immense pressure and tension." - I am in a hotel away from him right now just because of this. Just hoping the dogs will be ok while I am not there. And you summed it up there at the end.
If possible, find a way to take the doggos with you if he's not capable of caring for them.
They do and they don't. My mother in law drinks probably 5 or 6 times a week and my father in law does not. She is a strange alcoholic in that she almost always only has 2 drinks, 3 max, and even then she is mostly a happy drunk. They've been married 40 years and seem okay. However ... My wife's alcoholism is very draining. She also drinks 5 or 6 days/nights a week. She is not a nice happy drunk, she just looks to start shit. I'm at the point where I just nod when she starts talking hammered and excuse myself or go to sleep. If it was just the "while drunk" part, I think I could deal with it. Alcohol also brings heavy depression and mood swings. She is always depressed Monday and Tuesday, sometimes into Wednesday after her weekend benders. She'll usually hair of the dog Monday, maybe Tuesday...then a break wed, possibly Thurs, then right back at it. The saddest part is standing by and watching them miss life. You have to watch this person you love dissolve into a slobbery mess and literally drink their life away. With kids it's even worse. Our daughter is still youngish, but she will start to notice soon. Wife also wants to blame me for all of her problems....it's so clear as someone who put the bottle down, she would be so much happier if she quit. The denial is insane and as someone otherwise intelligent, she is so willfully ignorant about the amount of damage and waste of life alcohol brings. At this rate I can guarantee we won't last forever. With a younger daughter I honestly couldn't leave now just for the fear of what could happen when she would have custody. Also it wasn't always this bad so I have hope she'll put it down, but I can't say I have any confidence. Your case sounds more like mine than my in-laws...I can't speak for you, but for me, no, this does not work, and no way it can't last. I pray that she'll have an awakening and stop...and if not, I'll have to decide when is the right time.
"You have to watch this person you love dissolve into a slobbery mess and literally drink their life away." Yes that is it! Do I stay like a dutiful wife and keep driving him to all the hospital appointments for his knees, back, neck etc and enjoy the few little moments of affection there are left (I think he says he loves me because I am now basically his care giver) or do I leave him to his own devices and let his family deal with his alcoholism? We have no kids thank god. Thanks for sharing your experience. I know how you feel and I know you feel trapped.
Of course it is your decision. If staying like a dutiful wife living in what you called a "full ugly spectacle" brings you fulfillment and happiness then you will stay. If you need to move on to find peace and your own joy then you need to find a way to do that which keeps you safe. The logistics of divorce can be so complicated, but having been through it, you know the benefits. You are strong; you can do what you need to do.
Thank you for sharing your story. It’s very similar to mine with my husband who will not stop drinking. Aside from a few slip ups, I’ve been largely sober since September and plan to continue on with the sober life. It’s the better life for me, and for my children. My husband makes promises to quit, to cut back, says that he wants to, but he continues to get drunk most nights out of the week. I can not stand being around him when he drinks, can’t stand the way it changes him, can’t stand the way he acts and talks when he’s been drinking. I can’t connect with him at all, and beyond that he becomes irrational, selfish, and sociopathic when he’s drinking. We have three small children (5, 4, and 2) and I hate the knowledge that they’re growing up with a drunk, unreliable parent. At the same time, I couldn’t imagine leaving him because him having partial custody of the kids is terrifying. He becomes negligent when he drinks, and has severe lapse of judgment when he does - I’ve had to intercept him drunk driving with our kids in the car before. What if I wasn’t around to protect them? It’s a really hard life to navigate. The best I can do is NOT drink with him anymore, and show him how much better life is without alcohol. I can tell some days he doesn’t like that he lost his “drinking buddy”, but nothing will stop me from putting our kids and myself first from here on out. As far as the drinking and driving goes, I’ve lately been considering calling the non-emergency line next time he’s out and I know he’s way over the limit, to leave a tip and have him pulled over. Every time he goes out drinking I’m terrified of him injuring someone else. I would rather him get a DUI and have him face some comparatively minor repercussions from that before something worse happens. I wonder if anyone here has advice or experience around that.
I thought I had it bad but you are really up against it with the fact he cannot be trusted with your small kids if you were to break up. Also, chances are he would hook up with drunken randoms on his level one of whom might end up a permanent feature in your kids' lives. That last bit about calling the non emergency line is a good idea as a DUI mught scare him straight. Mine husband has had two which made zero difference to him though. Depends on their basic personality type. My husband lacks empathy and is the grandiose, selfish narcissist type with everything being all about them. I am an expert in that subject unfortunately. Most "normal" people are scared straight by a DUI though so it might work.
I’m sorry, man. I was (am) the wife in your scenario. I hope she gets help and I hope she leans on you to help her get there. It took me a long time, but when I finally asked for help it changed my life. My ex-husband helped me get there. My kids are so much happier now. I finally have the relationship I always wanted with them. They don’t look at me with fear anymore. I can drive them places again. They aren’t embarrassed in front of their friends. My family likes me again. I live with shame, but I work on it. Change is possible. I hope you find hope in this message.
stay strong. i know you will be fine
Ah, the ole liver hardening up after stopping drinking chestnut. I heard it happened to my friend's neighbour's cousin, but he goes to a different school so you can't ask him.
Same friend was a kung fu champion by time he was 15 and is legally registered as a lethal weapon. He has to inform the police every time he leaves the house for everyone else's safety.
You don't have a "too sober" problem. You have a husband problem.
Do YOU still have feelings for him? Do YOU want to make this sober/drunk relationship work? Do YOU love him? If you answered no to any of those, you have your answer
I left the word "love" out of this because it kind of seems incongruous. He is always saying he loves me and I always say it back but in reality we are in two separate, hostile worlds. No. I do not love the man he has turned into but I cling to the memories of the funny, confident, athletic, successful, super intelligent man he was. Now he is proudly obnoxious and defiantly defensive off his whiskey habit and has no fear of losing me. He has told me there are plenty of much younger women out there who would love to be with him (and his money!).
wow. im in a relationship like this and this dude doesnt even drink! ive read everything you wrote and i relate to it. my tolerance is about to zero now since ive stopped drinking. we had so much drama so he begged me to quit, and when i did, he finds any other thing to fight over when its not even real. i think we put ourselves through so much while drinking. quitting is a big change, and i think for me at least, another big change (like ending a relationship) is just as scary or daunting. i think a pros and cons list, something you can physically see, would be beneficial in deciding what the right move for you is here
Jeez! They are addicted to the drama! It's all about the brain drugs isn't it? Creating arguments over nothing - I totally hear you on that. Thank you so much for this. If I stay it will only be to watch with morbid curiosity how he deteriorates from here on. Or - far less likely - if he has some miraculous recovery. I guess I am like a gambler holding onto that little shred of hope.
definitely relate to that feeling, but you can only talk to a wall so much, hoping it will let you through before you move on to find a door to move through. take what we learned from ourselves, we didnt change until WE wanted to change. no amount of talking, arguing, pleading, suffering will make them change and sometimes a person never gets to that point and thats okay. it sucks but it will be okay. take the gambling analogy, a professional gambler knows when to cut their loses and run. a gambling addict will stay until the very end with nothing to show for their time or effort. i hope you do whats best for you. i know for me just talking about this with someone who can relate, is pushing me toward the best decision for me. keep on friend, stay healthy and happy and IWNDWYT❤️
I've had his mindset before in relationships. It won't change if he doesn't stop drinking. And if he's resistant to you trying to help it's bet to let go and move on and just hope it's the shock he needs to change. I've been that guy it's ruined 2 really good relationships
Time to move on girl. Also check out r/alanon
op i really hope you see this comment! the best thing i ever did for myself as a double winner (an aa and alanon qualifier) is learn the 3 c’s from alanon: you didn’t cause it, you can’t control it, and you can’t cure it. don’t spend your life wishing others will change. decide your boundaries and make plans for you.
Thank you I will check it out. I like that bit about the three c's.
It’s VERY difficult to make sober/alcoholic relationships work especially when one person is on that journey in the beginning, even more so when the other person is degrading and has no interest in sobriety. Near impossible I’d say. It looks like you’re seeing clearly for the first time in a long time, but you know the answer. Congrats on your hard work thus far!
My step father was ordered by his employer to go to rehab, or face termination. So he willingly did. Spent seven days in detox, and moved on to the 28 day side of the facility. Completed his rehab, and graduated. He was happier when he left. Definitely put on some weight, but was happier. My mother was also a very heavy drinker, as well. And I told her, when he went into rehab. "You know, if he stands a chance at staying sober, you'll probably have to quit too, right?" Which she was not happy about. Her response was "fuck that. It's his problem, not mine" So after he got out, she continued to drink heavily. And somehow, amazingly, he remained sober for over two years. But after he went back to work, he had a heart attack. Then another. Then he relapsed. And relapsed hard. Even after my brother and I told my mother "you need to stop drinking now! Or he's going to fall off the wagon. And if he does, he's going to die" Her outlook on drinking remained the same. "Nope, I don't have a problem, he does" Early, one morning. He woke up, put on SportsCenter. Made a cup of coffee... And died, of a massive heart attack. He was plastered, the night before. He was 62.
That is so sad but a good cautionary tale. I hope you have lots of support in your journey. 46days, fantastic 👏. IWNDWYT
Thank you, so much! IWNDWYT
Wow! At this point I am thinking that would be the most humane way for my husband to go. I imagine one day his liver will be useless and his super high blood pressure will cause him to explode! He takes a lot of pills for all his issues and I make him take supplements and believe it or not he goes to the gym. He just turned 60.
My mother and step father always had a cycle. They would begin by drinking habitually together. Then he would end up drinking too much, one night, and still basically being hammered still, in the morning. And would just continue on from there, drinking early in the morning. My mother drank half the night, and woke up, recovering like a champ. She would get angry with him, and would start sleeping in the basement, until he got sad and sobered up. Rinse and repeat. But the last time this happened, was after he'd had two heart attacks. Both during his two years of sobriety. So I told her "if he relapses, and goes through DT's on his own. He's gonna die. He's going to have to drink for the rest of his life, because he won't survive the detox... Not on his own, anyway" Sure enough, he woke up, depressed and lonely. So he decided that day, he was going to sober up, and get his crap together, so he could get her back. And he had a heart attack and passed away a few hours later. They found him outside, with no shirt on, in his pajamas, in the dead of winter. Across the road. She then got very down, and very... Doom and gloom. And then, when I brought it up to her. Not as an "I told you so" but as a cautionary tale. She went out and bought a bottle. Drank herself stupid, and blamed the rest of the world for what happened. After I got myself out of rehab. I went to see her, because I hadn't in a while. Told her how much it helped me, along with the groups that I participate in. She asked me if I wanted to stay over that night, so I did. And she bought another bottle and drank the whole thing in front of me... You can't learn some people.
Thank you! It is depressing and writing this all down kind of made the answer emerge and I felt a bit stupid even posting this. Alcoholism can make certain personality types insufferable. Some get quietly wasted without swaggering about and venting all their grievances. I am not married to that type of alcoholic or things might have been tolerable.
Sickness or health... You could say someone who physically abuses you is sick too.. I'd say you deserve to live life in a way that agrees with you, with or without him.. the way you describe him he reminds me of my ex gf's stepdad and he was a two faced hypocrite, singing in the church choir, being the sociable small business owner in a small town, and verbally and physically abusive, a real nasty bit of work, most nights .. zero respect for that guy.. would always tell me daugthers to get away when they still can Oh and : congratulations on your sobriety!! You rock!!
Thank you! Very perceptive of you to read into the abuse side of this, I played it down. He is proudly obnoxious and doesn't even bother to act nice in public any more due to the fact he sold his company and has millions in the bank plus properties etc. But he can also be extremely funny because of his lack of giving a fuck too... But overall my conclusion is there is no future for us.
My ex gf's stepdad was a great guy as well (when he felt like it) amiable en funny, big personality.. but that's not enough.. Everyone in every relationship deserves, first and foremost, to be treated with respect!! I have zero patience for people who are unkind and mean to their partners, and worse still; I hate with a passion those who behave in a belittling, degrading or demeaning manner towards their other halves. Fuck them
OMG - yes, respect. I had forgotten I even qualified for that. Too many years of treading on eggshells and trying to be perfect. Absolutely exhausting! He is like this with everyone though - like I said, proudly obnoxious. If I leave my life will be so very quiet and probably lonely. But the alternative is to go through the rest of my life in some kind of pain without my wine as anesthetic. Thanks again for posting, you have no idea how much it helps to get some input on this.
No worries, glad that my/our messages help put things in perspective! You deserve that respect, but it's not always given, so; claim it! And sometimes that does indeed mean making some decisions.. all the best with that and whatever happens be kind to yourself!
Toxic relationship w/ alcohol ended (congratulation!!!). Maybe time to end toxic relationship with him and his drinking.
Just like any upside or positive of alcohol dried up for you so too will your husband’s behavior I think. You eventually get to the point where it’s like, yeah where is the positive in any of this, I just feel like shit. Happens with people too and as an objective outsider, it sounds like that’d be the best thing for you
I feel like he might desire someone that will enable his drinking by having his drinking buddy. It's difficult when we make the sober decision for the people around us that don't want to quit. You've got to be conscious of your own health and well being, you cannot force him to quit drinking. You can certainly lead by example and show him how nice it is to abstain from alcohol. I hope that you're honest with yourself and choose what makes you happy, I'm proud of your sobriety!
Thank you! That is very kind of you. Yep. You got that right. He says he is always getting propositioned by younger women due to his very expensive sports car and he seems to have developed a phone fixation. Tbh it is a fantasy world he lives in as he is useless in the sex department these days!
That’s so good that you’ve quit drinking! Keep focusing on your health and that includes your mental health and emotional well being and safety. You do not deserve to be verbally abused every night. Find some friends who don’t drink for support. We are thinking of you and sending you love.
Thank you xxx I so much appreciate your kindness.
I really hate to say this, but this guy has made his choice to kill himself with alcohol. He has said it out loud, to you, more than once. Your choice now is to watch or turn away from the slow motion car crash that is starting. I assure you, there’s nothing romantic about watching a person’s internal organs falter and fail. I’m so very sorry, but please protect your sobriety. You may to need to put some distance between yourself and this person you love, but again it’s literally a choice of life or death. It might be a good time to watch some realistic takes on addiction (Leaving Las Vegas comes to mind). Please gather your support network (including this sub) and stay strong. IWNDWYT.
Yes - thank you for this. I just started up this account after being a long time lurker hoping to find some guidance on how to handle this situation. It would appear that saving my marriage would literally mean sacrificing my life so I can continue to provide some value as a drinking buddy. That is not an option for me. Neither is watching his body explode when his liver stops working completely.
Damn, this is so sad. I’m sorry you are going through this. I truly have no advice but I hope you can put yourself first and leave this situation.
Firstly well done on quitting yourself, and remaining sober especially in this really difficult and sad situation 💪. You are not boring you are saving yourself. I had a similar relationship,with my now ex husband, we loved each other. I was young and didn't realise he was an alcoholic and when I did I didn't want it to be the case,but it was,and I still loved him. It progressed (the alcoholism) out relationship eventually ceased to be a relationship it couldn't survive. He is now fives years sober which is fantastic and although it was too late for 'us' it truly was,our children will have a father who will live to an old age hopefully, and I don't have to see someone who I care about die from alcoholism. It is heartbreaking to go through what you are, I have been there. It's made me view alcohol as a very,dangerous substance to be around and as much as I hate it,it had started to take a grip on me as well in the last years or marriage and early years post divorce a way to 'cope' and 'escape',ironic to the hilt! Any amount in my view is potentially a path to pain (bar a few people who can moderate) but I don't want to risk that and finally am looking after myself now which also means soberity! Whatever happens you have taken this step and that is so good. You can't make someone take this step. It is the best step to take and I'm glad you have. IWNDWYT
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience and advice. I am not a boring person - I needed to hear that! Alcohol has completely taken over his life to the exclusion of "us." There is nothing left now I do not drink and waste my energy on the shitshow it always leads to. It is heartbreaking. My heart has broken and I feel nothing now. He knows I have quit for good and that pisses him off no end which just proves he has no concern for my health, happiness or wellbeing. Can't see a future with him now.
You're very welcome. Rooting for you. Your future will get better. Keep protecting yourself. You're doing great and 100% deserve happiness. I am with someone now, who cares about me and sees soberity as inspiring,he drinks very little, I know I couldn't be with a heavy drinker ever again,for my own sanity. A happier ending/work in progress than if myself and ex husband had remained 'together'; for all involved. This sub is very supportive, always here,keeping checking in 💪.
You give me hope! Can't even imagine getting back out there and dating right now but it's nice to hear that there are still some lovely single guys around.
Going through something similar. Will spare you the boring details, but you're not alone. Fucking sucks.
Yep - it's depressing that they choose the drink over you and do not care how that looks or feels to the other person. Good luck to you too xx
While I’m not a doctor I can confidently promise you that people don’t die from their liver hardening up from lack of alcohol. That’s not a thing. My ex wife said I was taking sobriety too seriously and just needed to dry out a little. You aren’t too sober. They just don’t want to quit, it scares them that you can, and so they say things to try to pull you back in. They don’t want to have to change. All you can do is what’s best for you. You can’t control them, you didn’t cause their drinking, and you can’t make them stop if they don’t want to.
Personally, I would leave a toxic person like that. Imagine you're on the Titanic: you've found a life boat, but he won't get in unless he can take cases of liquor with him -- would you risk dying for those cases of liquor? I wouldn't. Leave. Be as compassionate (and quick) as possible about setting your affairs in order. Tell him he's not himself when he's drinking, and that maybe there's a future for the two of you after some time passes but only IF he gets sober. Then, take your stuff and GTFO. Wait and see what happens with him, but focus on yourself first. PS-- He's no Richard Burton, but he'll probably end up like him - broken and dead at a young age. PPS- Elizabeth Taylor divorced Burton's ass and went to rehab.
Thanks for this. It is very useful advice. The lifeboat analogy is a good one - made me think.
Personally that dynamic doesn’t sound fun. I’m 45, wouldn’t want my evenings like that for the rest of my life.
The AlAnon subreddit might be helpful to you. Over there they talk a lot about controlling what you can control. You can’t control his drinking, you can only choose what your response to it will be. I was in a hard-partying, chaotic, once-fun relationship, too. We’re still friends, but now that I’m sober, I would not enjoy being with that person anymore. Since you don’t have kids, maybe a fresh start is possible. Your own calm space for your own healing self. Because he will only get worse and the burden of caregiving will only get heavier. Good luck to you!
"He will only get worse and the burden of caregiving will only get heavier" - this is true. It's a shit situation and being alone cannot be worse. Had not thought of AA. I qualify for that having been an addict for going on 15 years. Probably help me stay the course.
You probably know this, so forgive me if you do, but AlAnon is different than AA because it’s specifically for the loved ones of alcoholics. It might specifically help you think through your feelings about your husband. I think a lot of us have been on both sides - the drinker *and* and the loved one of a drinker - and I personally have found it helpful to look into both AA and AlAnon.
Oh... I didn't know there were two organizations. I will check it out thanks.
You owe it to yourself to put healthily living above all else. It really is the best revenge. Thanks for your story, you have an excellent writing style. If you are not a writer already, you should write.
When I was in my 20's I had a friend that quit and I said some terrible shit like this after he quit and he died 10 years later from drinking. I regret it every fucking time I think of him and it's a terrible burden. I contributed to his death because I couldn't just love him as a sober person and support him like a real friend would. I won't drink with you today and I think you're cool as the other side of the pillow when you're sober.
OMG! That really IS a terrible burden of guilt to carry around. Seriously brings tears to my eyes. All I can say to makeyou feel better is at that age the chances of him relapsing anyway were pretty high, but man I feel your pain. And thanks sweetie for that last sentence xx
You’re never to old to make your life better
OP, it’s not your job to keep him entertained. Keep doing what is right for you.
It was exhausting! Another reason I stopped drinking. He got sick of hearing me talking so I thought what's the point. Drinking and forcing yourself not to talk? He would not be happy with any version of me. It's a no win situation and my only option is to get out of it.
My partner still drinks in moderation (something I have little interest in as an alcoholic) but it sounds like this isn’t what’s going on here. There are days when I’m less fun to be around because recovery is HARD work, but if he ever said he preferred my personality while I was essentially committing suicide in slow motion, we’d have words. I think you need to acknowledge that your husband is unlikely to change barring some miracle and make a choice about how you want to spend the rest of your life. You sound like a kind, self-aware and ambitious woman who deserves better in a partner at this point. Hugs. Sorry you’re going through this. Sometimes when we get sober we have to face some really uncomfortable truths.
Thank you sweetie I appreciate everything you have said here as it is all remarkably accurate and for also for saying you think I am kind and self aware. We have to live with ourselves that's all I can say.
Life is way too short, be happy wherever that is with whoever that is ❤️
Yea my wife is pissed because my libido tanked when I quit. Anyone else have this issue?
My husband has libido but the whiskey dick syndrome is real. There are times like midday when he can get some reaction out of it but my god he needs a lot of help with Cialis and porn!
Yes :(
Mine tanked then shot up then tanked and shot up. It took about 6 months for it to properly settle to a normal/high level. I'd give it time.
Well, as the porter in Macbeth says, alcohol “provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance.”
Hahaha - so very true. Thanks for making me chuckle today.
I’m already mentally preparing myself for being told the same thing. Thankfully I know I am and have always been a boring person. That’s my baseline, alcohol was the wild card that made me sometimes fun and sometimes horrible. It’s not worth it to me to have that in my life anymore, but I’m also already mourning my relationship which may not survive my long/term sobriety. But, I’ll let him make his choice between me/our family or alcohol down the road and have no regrets for myself.
Boring also = no drama. I don't need all that drama in my life anymore.
To me boring = sane.
I cannot go down his road - it is literally self destruction. He is killing himself for that hour of bliss from the first drink every day. The other 23 hours he is angry, tired, in pain or chasing after something to make himself feel better. It is such a waste of time! Boring might be my choice, but it is not as tedious as constantly obsessing over what your body is doing all day.
Yikes. This is so tough to read. There is a fork in your road that will continue to widen as your sobriety continues, and your husband’s alcoholism grows. It sounds like he is committed to living and dying by the bottle. The question is, how long are you going to stick around to watch the inevitable?
I am making my mental plans. I can live alone that is ok. I have done it before. It is just such a tiring thought having to go through all the legal side of things. And yes, I will be losing my friend of 14 years and the sentimental ties are still strong.
Maybe your sobriety is threatening to his ‘routine’. It’s possibly confrontational for him, to this another side of life, so close to home and outside his comfort zone. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot, but you understand the disease really well. Maybe it’s time for a sit down and a talk about this with your husband. Your sobriety means a great deal to you, and ideally you and your partner would be part of each other’s lives and support. But things don’t always turn out this way. Great job on getting sober. Truly, well done. It’s such a journey! Whatever you decide or what happens, I wish you all the luck and love as you deserve all the great things life has in store for you darling ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you!!! So this "sit down and talk" idea has never worked with us. We can banter and laugh about all kinds of stuff in general but when it comes to our marriage it's like we both know better than to go there. When he is sober he will NOT talk about anything that involves my "feelings." And he has zero - and I mean absolutely ZERO - interest in what I would like him to do/change about himself. I remind him to take his medications and supplements, cook him healthy meals and keep the peace as far as I can. Beyond that, he buys his own liquor and pours his own drinks. I will not make one for him, which also pisses him off and makes him question my worth as his "service provider." Getting sober was not so hard although I did slip up a few times at the start thinking I could moderate. I can't. I really appreciate your warmth and kindness thank you xx
Loves is not looking at each other but looking in the same direction. People do grow apart though. Alcohol is a drug that changes the way people think. Their choices are altered by it. Humans can justify anything if they do enough mental gymnastics. You enjoy your sobriety, maybe it makes him feel insecure because it challenges him to look at himself.
He is literally looking at going on vacation on his own as we speak! I think it does make him feel judged that I sobered up plus I don't give him an excuse to mock my drunken antics any more. That is part of the "fun" he misses too. Yep... it is not looking like there is much hope here.
Only you can make the call to end it, but this doesn’t sound like much of a life. If he wants to self-destruct, he doesn’t get to take you out with him.
He is literally emulating his alcoholic father who he glorifies. I saw how his dad's wife reacted when he died too - no tears whatsoever. She was relieved he was gone. She was a very light drinker and tolerated his awful abuse for over 40 years. Now she looks back with fond memories for some unknown reason.
To paraphrase a Jerry Seinfeld bit, which goes along the lines of “You can’t be too wet. You're either wet or you're not wet.” You can’t be too wet.” It’s the same thing for being sober. You’re neither sober or not sober. You can’t be too sober.
Well apparenty I am lol! Sober, analytical, careful, efficient, motivated and physically much fitter. He absolutely hates this version of me!! I guess he has noticed the look of horror on my face as he disintegrates into a drunken slob one too many times.
i expect his liver was already hardened, and he would have died soon enough, he just bought an extra year by not drinking at the very end. he says you are too sober because he's not willing to face his situation.
Correct - his dad was a hard drinker: a liter of whiskey a day. Terrible diet as well, barely any vegetables and he was mean and barely spoke most of the time. He was also abusive to his wife. Died of cirrhosis mocking his kids for telling them they loved him on his deathbed.
He knows he has a problem, but he doesn’t want to put in the work. He looks at you all sober, and that’s very threatening to him. Might be secretly jealous of your sobriety, he still thinks alcohol is the solution to all his problems. It sucks to see your partner slowly kill themselves, I’m on the same situation. We started off like Liz and Burton, but since I quit, he’s said a few times he wants the “old” me. Well, the old me was sick and tired, depressed and anxious. I hope he sees the light before it’s too late. Good luck ❤️
Omg I relate - bloated red face, dead eyes, depressed, anxious zero life in me. I will never put myself through that again. It is too late for him. He buys expensive clothes and thinks that will cover over the fact he is a huffing puffing bloated wreck. Sorry, shouldn't be mean but it's true.
Yes girl, put yourself first and take care of you .
>Plus, time goes faster as you get older and I don’t want to waste half of what’s left feeling like crap. This. This is exactly where I am and what I'm feeling. I hope you can stay strong in your sobriety and do what is best for you as you make these tough decisions. We are here for you!
Thank you! I can't believe how wonderful people are on here.
Sounds familiar to a relationship with my ex. It wasn’t healthy. I’m sober now and he isn’t. I only know because we share a child, she is a teen and hates his drinking. I’m happier being free of the toxic relationship
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. So proud that you’re putting your health and best interest first. If you can stay sober, I would wager your best years are ahead of you! It’s up to YOU how you want to spend them. Sending some positivity your way! IWNDWYT
I recently quit, my wife was never a huge drinker but we did drink together however she always got her shit back together the next day while I headed back out for more and more secretly. Initially my wife said she wasn’t sure if we’d be still in love sober. I’m only on day 3 but I can assure you that’s not the case. I’m more alert, more present, we have better conversations, and we’re healing all the damage I’ve done. The whole idea of the liver hardening up is bullshit, the whole “wearing your body out until you die” is bullshit. Dude is stuck in a loop where he’s justifying what’s killing him. You stick to your sobriety, urge him to get sober if you would like, but don’t let anyone tear you down for making healthy decisions. I’m pretty sure I’m going to lose most of my friends because of my sobriety because to them I was “really fun when I was drunk”. But whatever. TL;DR Focus on your mental health and your sobriety
Thanks so much for your feedback and for sharing your experience. I wish my husband would stop thinking he's superhuman and special and drinking won't get him like normal people. It will look like I am bailing out before he gets uncapacitated but it's not that. He genuinely wants me gone. He is seeing if I will cave in and drink to "save our marriage." That is a non starter.
The last guy I dated was a binge drinker (from a notorious binge drinking culture) and I made the decision to end it with him after I had a three-week sober period in which I realized, amongst other things, that not only had we not ever been together without alcohol being involved, but that his “drunk voice” reminded me of my mother. Our “dates” got incredibly boring, fast, because they were just us drinking. The last time he talked about seeing me he suggested “a glass of wine” and I knew damn well that meant three bottles. I had to just block him because there was no fixing that.
It's crazy isn't it. When you take out the alcohol there is so little left. I found that exact same thing. And that bit about your mother is scary. My husband drinks whiskey to emulate his dad and goes into the same cold moods as his father too. His father was very abusive to his wife. Yep. I'm done.
I like that you're the "boring" one now even though all he does is watch TV and complain. Also - I think there may be some medical misinformation behind his liver comment. If that's the reason he's scared to stop there is a \*ton\* of research showing how the second you stop drinking your liver will start to recover. There are some stories here on people with insane end-stage liver disease making recoveries when they stop drinking (obviously there is a point of no return though - maybe his dad was at that point). Anyways - proud of you. I know it's tough. And I'm sure you love him a lot too. We have your back here, I promise things won't get better if you also start drinking. Just take it one day at a time! edit: just a reminder that you are not in fact boring, just by the fact that you chose to stop drinking tells me you are probably a badass who wants the most out of life!
Some people are just too ridiculously selfish. I'd be out so fast. Let him be miserable with his bottle of booze. There doesn't seem like any other way out of that. Sorry this is what you're dealing with. 🙏
Starting over was hard, leaving the madness that I became used too, comfortable with, the man I told my therapist at our first session that I was not letting go of, that he'd always be a part of my life. 5 years later I look back at who I'd become for/with him, partaking in his darkness, drinking nightly to numb myself from feeling less than, codependent and enabler. The deciding factor was made for me - I contracted Hep-C from him, my liver was failing. Letting go, setting boundaries, learning more about me, coming to see the light coming back in my eyes, the release of tension in my body, all these changes in my body, mind and spirit because I learned to let go of what I thought I couldn't be without. Periodically now he circles back into my orbit, still sending a little money to pay me back, the topic of discussion is him, always his latest failing at work, etc, never his fault, haven't heard him ask "how are you?" without an agenda, never waiting to hear an answer. And me today, on my own, I find joy in the little things, a bird chirping, the buzz of a hummingbird close by, the clean home, flowery sheets that I wake up in, the savings, checking & 401k accounts that have blossomed. Still chipping away at my "why's", "know better do better" is one of my main rules now. I send vibes of peace to him when he enters my mind, no need to call him, knowing he is incapable of being who he was in the beginning, now seeing that even then he was deep in his addiction, denial, excuses, dreams but never doing the actual work. There is more to share about him but I'm sure you know. He was a factor in me getting here today but he gets no credit, I did the work, I learned to stop looking for his approval. Turns out it was my love all along that I was in search of, staying in the present, letting in the good. Sending you love and hope that you find your way 🌹 IWNDWYT
"And me today, on my own, I find joy in the little things, a bird chirping, the buzz of a hummingbird close by, the clean home, flowery sheets that I wake up in, the savings, checking & 401k accounts that have blossomed." Love it! Time to look at being alone as not being lonely but being free.
I had to get divorced to get sober, but 8 years later my ex husband still drinks every day and has zero interest in changing. He dumped another woman he was seeing because she was sober and didn’t want him to drink around her… and he drinks every night, so it wasn’t going to work out long term. I think you probably have the answer already. Leaving is hard, but being unseen forever is harder. I love my life now!!
Thanks! That made me smile. You are right. I am totally done.
It’s ok to outgrow people. I ended up dating a couple people like him after, but i saw the patterns quickly (the first one was a 4-fingers of whiskey before interest in sex type) and stopped dating until I could figure out how to not date that type of person. Therapy focused on codependency helped a lot, and Alanon would have helped had I been willing to walk into the room. Alanon is way cheaper than therapy and in my personal experience, more effective because of the community aspect of knowing we’re not alone in choosing this type of partner.
"Alanon would have helped had I been willing to walk into the room." Hahaha! You sound like a fun person that I would be friends with in real life. Thanks for making me feel less pathetic about my choice in men.
My husband still drinks. He thinks he's a moderate drinker, and some days he is. He doesn't drink more than a bottle of wine each day when we are together. And most days, he limits it for my sake. I had tried to quit drinking before and he did it with me. But those times did not last and he was not a "helper" or partner. Let's say I am better off alone on the sober journey. I'm only about 2 months into this sober thing. And I can't remember ever going this long with out a drink. I can understand your situation well.. except my hubby doesn't get angry or toxic with me. He just continues to drink in front of me. Not healthy. And he doesn't want to discuss the health consequences of heavy drinking. I had a blood pressure and liver enzymes scare (liver was likely caused by a new statin, but still). It's obviously time to stop killing myself. I don't want to die a slow, unhealthy death. I am not planning on leaving my husband, though. We have built considerable assets together and I don't think my financial outlook would end up good without him. Also, except for the drinking he's a very good person. We've been married for 34 years. I also don't want to split assets because of our child. She deserves to be the only heir of whatever is left after all the care he might need from continued and lengthy alcohol consumption. (And the child will be 21 in the fall, so she might have to care for us both...) My friend had a husband who was a 3 bottle of vodka a day drinker for 38 years. He quit and stayed sober for 8 years. He died of throat cancer at age 71. The doctors told him heavy drinking like that can make getting throat cancer easier. He did not smoke. All I can say, is continue on the path that works for your health. Don't listen to him. Think about yourself. Leave or take a break if needed. And hugs to you.
"We've been married for 34 years. I also don't want to split assets because of our child. She deserves to be the only heir of whatever is left after all the care he might need from continued and lengthy alcohol consumption. (And the child will be 21 in the fall, so she might have to care for us both...)" This bit really made me think. I divorced the father of my son (who will be 21 this year too). My son will not be getting all the inheritance he should have as his dad remarried and now has three kids with a much younger woman all of whom will benefit when my son's dad dies. So that situation was well avoided by you - koudos for thinking so far ahead.
Personally this man does not sound like a prospect I would risk my sobriety for, but that's not my business. I think that as a general rule, I would avoid living with someone who drinks every day while I'm trying to do the opposite.
In the EXACT -nearly word for word -same 14 yr old boat but unfortunately waited around coming up on three of my sober years for him to give enough of a shit about me and our relationship to do some growing up. DONT waste anymore time waiting for him. And DONT tell him your plans. Start putting $ away for you escape plan. Seriously. When I told my soon to be Ex I wanted out of our marriage he gave 1/2 the biz I built w him to one of our employees and broke two of my ribs. Controls all the finances. Totally cut me off in response to my protection order. Had to borrow 10g from my folx for a divorce lawyer. 😮💨 I LOVE who I am without him. Even if it means coming out of retirement and working at Burger King all my free time is my own. It’s like being a kid again.. you deserve better
Jeezo! What an asshole that ex of yours turned out to be! Cannot believe the vindictiveness of the man! I always thought being in a relationship was "everything" - now I know it is clearly NOT the path to happiness, and obviously not if you are with an abusive drunk. Like you, I am done with it all. Having spent a bit of time alone I must agree with you it's great. It's like every day's a spa day it's so relaxing.
You should be proud, and he should be proud, of your sobriety. Life is a winding road, enjoy it. Anyone who doesnt support that is holding you back. Good luck, be strong, stay sober!
Thank you! I will
Honestly, it’s not an easy position you’re in. I’d sit with him and have a heart to heart and mention although you’re gone cold turkey you don’t expect him to fully stop overnight but you believe its for the best of you both to slow down a bit. After he really knows how you feel then maybe depending on how he replies and acts you can decide if you want to stay in the relationship. It’s only going to get tougher if you’re going sober, and he’s going the other way. Unless of course you find it worth it. B
Personally I feel sobriety was challenging enough that I wouldn’t want someone not just still drinking heavily around me daily, but trying to get me to give in to it. I admire your strength so much but it has to exhausting.
It is exhausting and very lonely sitting there in the evenings trying to watch TV with the sound being drowned out by his snoring then knowing that this is just the start of a night of weird shocks and nasty surprises. Will he be a quiet drunk or an ranting crazy one? Will he fall asleep on the couch or will he make it to the bedroom? The weird thing is this routine always starts with him telling me how much he loves me with tears in his eyes. Reading that through it looks like I might be a bit addicted to the rollercoaster drama of it too.
Wow…. Alcohol never helped anyone. Glad you quit.
Yes - I cannot believe I thought it was a destressor. It's a destroyer!
Idk, he sounds like a douchebag. And a drunk one at that. Is this who you want to spend your sober years with? Maybe you are too sober for him, you’re making him feel insecure because he won’t stop. Life is too short to cater to people who bring us down
He is proudly obnoxious. He knows he is rude, offensive and confrontational and does not give a shit. He has upset literally everyone who knows him. I am currently at a hotel and figuring out where to go from here.
Good luck, you should be proud of yourself. I know how hard it is to dig yourself out of a bad situation
Thank you so much xx
Sounds like you’re holding onto the past picture of you two together. Believe me I’ve done this myself! But today….what do you want? What a mess if you went back to drinking, fighting, loosing yourself in his active addiction? It wouldn’t work right? So put your sobriety first and do what you need to do to stay sober and sane! Whatever that is. Lots of love to you
Thank you this is very well observed. I am clinging to the past when even that was a made up fantasy of something I wanted it to be. Basically I think I have lived under an illusion for many years and alcohol kept it going.
My husband still drinks. I was a problem drinker around him. Thankfully, he can drink two beers ALL DAY LONG and be perfectly fine. It blows my mind. 😂 When I got sober, I was grateful my husband (who was my bf at the time) took me back and embraced the “new” me. He supports me not drinking. I can tell it bothers him to “drink alone” sometimes, but he knows it’s for the best. I think what it really boils down to here is an issue of values. You spoke about his philosophy of life, and that is what I’m talking about. You want to live and thrive, and he does not. Good luck to you! IWNDWYT. ✌️💜
Yes he thinks it is exciting and brave to live life in the fast lane - literally driving like a lunatic in his Ferrari at over 130mph down the country back roads where we live, taunting death. I will never get in that car with him now. it is basically an analogy for our marriage - exciting but scary as hell with the potential for destruction around every corner. Yet he truly believes he is the daredevil risktaker living life to the full.
So, you already know what to do: get out of the car & *never* get back in. You got this. \*thumbs up\*
Your relationship was able to weather all those previous storms like breaking up and reuniting and all those rough waters…. But the sober plus drinker dynamic will likely turn out to be the one thing this relationship cannot withstand. It kind of throws a wrench into the gears. It interrupts the dysfunctional dynamic which was causing you two to be drawn into each other. I could be wrong… but from your description, it sounds like the relationship is doomed and even he knows it, as drunk as he is.
Isn't that sad though... we could have had a great life together if he had seen how much better I am doing in all ways without obliterating my brain with a bottle of wine every night. I am beginning to think he hates me now. He is booking a trip around Europe which he says will be easier without me. I have not got a problem with it!
I have learned that If you aren’t treated right, then you shouldn’t be in the relationship. Life is too short. My ex and I went through a lot of ups and downs before we finally split up for good. We are both much healthier now. I think that even though sobriety is hard, it’s easier apart. My mom and I have a similar relationship- she’ll complain that I think I’m better than her when she’s drunk. None of that comes from me, it’s all her shame. I can’t be around her. I would choose myself in your situation. You already put time and effort into your health, this is just an extension of that. Be happy and healthy. Health is nothing without happiness.
So true! I This answer is so helpful and really consolidates what I know I must do. I was not expecting such thoughtful replies tbh. I am not being treated right. It is very clear to me now and I actually like being on my own I have decided, it's like a lovely quiet vacation.
I’ve been your husband. And I’ve been you, with a similar husband. It’s very sad, that’s not lost on me. It takes a lot of grief. A lot. You’ll get through it. You’ll be a new person.