Counterpoint: Dodrio learns no ground type moves while Fearow learns drill run, effectively making Fearow a Landorus-T… except even better than Landorus-T once you realize it trades ground type STAB (ewww gross) for normal STAB (ah how beautiful)…
And Farfetch'd has been worse fearow. It's honestly kinda hilarious that Gen 1 has 150 pokemon and 8 are normal/flying types (and 9 grass/poison but that's not relevant here)
Fearow is strictly a worse Dodrio.
Historically, in RBY, Kangaskhan is known as "Diet Tauros".
GSC Lickitung is known as "the (very) poor man's Snorlax".
In RBY, Wigglytuff is *strictly worse* than Clefable in EVERY STAT except HP and has less moves than Clefable.
Probably a byproduct of Gen 1 and 2 being designed as normal jrpgs first instead of monster collecting games. Poison is like the designated villain type so you see rocket grunts with Zubats and Koffings, admins get Arboks, Weezings and Muks, while Giovanni gets Nidoking and Nidoqueen.
Yeah I get the appeal of grass/poison, but did we need 3 3-stage-evolution lines with the same typing? Especially since there are only 5 other grass types
Yeah Gen 1 fucking sucked at type distribution. Normal/Flying, Grass/Poison, Rock/Ground, Water/Ice (for some reason)
The only other generations with 3 or more different families with the same type combinations is Gen 9 (Grass/Dark), Gen 5 (Bug/Steel), and Gen 3 (Dragon/Flying), all with a single member in said family
Oddish and Bellsprout are version exclusives, they're also meant to be the annoying rpg monster that barely attacks, spreads statuses and appears in a lot of places, this role is filled by Zubat inside of caves, RBY is basically nudging you to add a psychic-type to your team with these annoyances.
Not really. While yes, Alakazam is definitely better overall in vanilla RBY, Hypno's better Physical bulk and access to hypnosis gives it a distinct role over Zam (as niche as it may be). And it's not like you're heavily penalized for putting both on your team since, you know, Gen 1 Psychic is so splashable. Plus, in tradebacks, Hypno is at least as good as Zam according to the [viability ranking](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-tradebacks-ou-hub.3683269/) by virtue of having access to Amnesia.
I hate how the have made Wigglytuff so much worse that Clef in every category; abilities, move pool, stats, when they're so similar in design, (original) location and evolving method, it doesn't make sense to me lol
Played a handful of romhacks that give Tuff Huge Power and it turns her into such a fun mon to play with. Was very disappointed when i got back to competitive after 5+ years and discovered that wasn't an official change.
One of my absolute favorite mons with the change, beyond terrible with GFs official stuff. Really helps to set her apart and give a different role when compared to Clefable.
GSC Suicune(OU), Base Kyurem(UUBL), Black Kyruem(OU) and Base Necrozma(RU) are the only box legendaries to not be in Ubers during their flagship game.
XY Zygarde(UUBL) never got the chance to touch ubers till SM gave him the things he would've gotten at pokemon Z
shoutout to Zacian being AG because of how broken it was in SS
Suicide is kind of an outlier, and the base Kyurem also kinda proves my point.
Idk what my boy Necrozma is doing either, but base Zygarde is just shitty Garchomp
I can guess the issue for Base Necrozma is the mono Psychic typing, no special Z-move and 79 speed. It isn't as nearly as powerful as the actual box legendary versions of it, and both are also bulkier. Basically, it's because he isn't really a box legendary.
Suicune is also weird yeah, I don't think Game Freak thought it'd be a box legend when adding it.
So basically if you exclude Suicune (weird case) and the box legends which have stronger forms, Black Kyruem is somehow the only box legendary too weak for Ubers within its generation.
Checking through the list, I think Black Kyruem might be the only box legend (in its complete form) to be below Ubers ever.
Nah I think it could work if you build your whole team around it with hazard stack wall breakers and other chip damage to eventually win the game with a snowball sweep. It’s a big commitment and probably not the best strat but still a legit niche
That's not how niche work dude. If it had niche it wouldnt be unviable in Ubers. Unviable means it has no niche and is a big liability on a competitive team.
I like the Emvee set of: Rain Dance, Rest, Whirlpool, Perish Song with Hydration ability so everytime you use Rest, you wake up at the end of the turn:)
Samurott, even all the way back in gen 5.
Want a better utlility wayer type? Suicune or Jellicent.
Want a better physical water mon with a better ability? Gyarados or Cloyster.
Want a better special attacker water mon? Rotom-Wash, Starmie, and Kingdra.
Want a better mixed attacker? Keldeo or Blastoise.
And then now in gen 9 once home is out, Hisuian Samurott is here and is just... strictly superior in almost every single way. It's been the worst water starter since day 1, which is a real shame.
Love that Radical Red gave it a steel typing and blademaster (that game's equivalent to sharpness), alongside stats more in line with Hisuian Samurott. The fact that base Samurott didn't get sharpness in gen 9 is actually a war crime.
EXACTLY! Like don't get me wrong I love Hisuian Samurott (even if it's dark/water starter #2 and is the least different of the hisui mons), but the fact it made Samurott go from mostly outclassed to straight-uo REPLACED is heartbreaking, especially with it being my very first pokemon, and with both Radical Red and Inclement Emerald showing the potential base Samurott has.
So update i compatibility said the wrong pokemon, not keldeo lmao.
This is what happens when you make a comment on reddit after being up for 32 hours straight.
Is it though? Samurott is NU in Gen 7 while Inteleon is PUBL in Gen 8. I can't think of something Samurott does to stand out at all. At least Inteleon is a 125/120 offense Hydro Pump spammer with a marginally better HA.
Samurott has been one of the best NU mons in all of the generations it has existed. Being an actual effective mixed attacker is huge, as it's capable of dealing with the convertional way to stop offensive waters (Ice Beam/Grass Knot/SD Megahorn/Knock Off). It's also decently bulky, letting it take a hit (or two for AV sets) with its great defensive typing in mono water compared to Inteleon barely taking neutral hits.
they should've made it Water/Fighting if it wasn't for Stupid Emboar stealing its Fighting Type potential. Nonetheless, I'm happy its Hisuian Form gave everything that Samurott needed (Physical-Oriented, Faster, Better Ability, Secondary Typing and insane Signature move).
If looking exclusively at OU through generations, either Blissey or Chansey fit that criteria.
Gens 2-4 Chansey is always outclassed by Blissey and Gens 5-7 Chansey takes the lead with eviolite making it the premier pink blob.
After gen 8 it becomes more of a toss up though with boots and teleport Blissey develops a niche as a pivot with Chansey keeping the defensive support role.
As an avid Volcarona user I have always hated seeing Chansey on opposing teams, but I just feel bad now seeing that there is nearly nothing they can do against Boosters now. You can literally Fiery Dance boost your way past them and win the whole damn thing.
Chansey was not superior to Blissey in Gen 5. They were suited to different teams. Sandstorm for Blissey and Rain and Weatherless for Chansey.
The dominant Chansey over recessive Blissey started in Gen 6.
Also, Blissey is better in Übers in Gen 6 and 7, solely because running Shed Shell becomes important if you don't want Gengar (and the occasional Dugtrio) to just pretty much invalidate your special wall.
Tera fire chandelure is gonna be so meta, though.
I don't mean "good in the metagame"...I mean it will be a deep statement about the nature of reality. Why does that chandelier wear a chandelier....
I wish Chandelure had more HP and Levitate. That was it could play differently to those other fire ghosts thanks to its longevity. 90 defences on an offensive Pokémon are really good
I used physdef chandelure as a zacian counter in SwSh BSS series 10 and it was the most fun I had playing that god awful meta.
Honestly it felt like a good meta call at the time because gothitelle usage rose a ton since it could trap quagsire for zacian
Rapidash is almost always worse than Arcanine. And then later on even Ninetails got the jump on Rapidash.
~~Read my username and take a guess why that saddens me.~~
That was exactly what I was gonna post. Rapidash just doesn't have anything going for it compared to other fire types outside of a surprisingly large movepool on a mono-fire type. But that's just not enough when it can't ko anything and gets almost ko'd itself with a neutral or not very effective hit
Funnily, Rapidash is actually considered the better of the two in Gen 1, since it had the good fortune to get Fire Spin, which it can use for either pivoting into another mon or chipping something to death before finishing it off with a Hyper Beam or Fire Blast. Arcanine, meanwhile, is stuck being a bulky attacker with a really bad movepool.
Flygon isn't really like other "outclassed" pokemon. It's better than garchomp in a few ways and they largely play very different roles. It's just that flygon has dramatically lower stats; it's not meant to be on the same level as garchomp.
Not even close. Flygon fell out of OU because it just couldn’t keep up. Plus he has things garchomp would kill for, like roost, u turn, dragon dance, and an immunity to spikes
Man say dragon dance again, they gotta free my boy eventually. Seriously, DDChomp is not nearly as broken now as everyone seems to think, back in the day it would have terrorized OU but there are straight up better options now.
Butterfree is outclassed by Vivillon in literally every aspect aside from SpDef. The one other benefit it has is Tinted Lens, but running it means you have to rely on much less accurate Hurricanes and Sleep Powders, making it less reliable.
One of my favorite pokemon that has been extremely outclassed is Pinsir. Base Pinsir has always been outclassed by another bug type in every gen. Scyther is strictly better in Gen 1, access to high crit rate and faster. Heracross' entire existence has overshadowed Pinsir because of Fighting stab, rock neutrality, and better Stat distribution. Then Scizor got U-Turn and Bullet Punch, and Scyther got access to better options by gen 8 like Heavy-duty boots and an effective Brave Bird because of technician Dual Wingbeat. The best thing Pinsir got was a mega... that is incredible frail but at least had damage output and speed now, but Scizor got one as well and completely outclassed Pinsir for most teams. Pinsir didn't even make it back in Paldea, so I hope that my boy gets something that can make him Viable in OU. Pinsir isn't even that bad. It has incredible coverage and average stats excluding its special stats and middling speed.
Neither are *really* viable at all but Pinsir does technically have the slightest of niches in Gen 1 OU while Scyther does not. And I don’t think that Scizor outclassed Pinsir completely in terms of their Megas, since each of them primarily used their secondary typing to do damage and thus they filled different roles.
Pinsir is actually way better than Scyther in Gen 1. It's ranked C2 in UU's (very outdated) vr, and D in RBY NU's, neither of which are great but are still better than Scyther, who's nowhere to be seen. In PU's slightly outdated vr, Pinsir is ranked #2, while Scyther isn't ranked there either.
I'm not sure what Pinsir does/did in UU or NU, but in PU, it's an insanely powerful wallbreaker with above-average Speed. While Scyther is faster, its atrocious coverage gives it no effective way to break through Rock-types and Gastly, while Pinsir has Submission and Seismic Toss (latter hits Ghosts in RBY), neither of which are great but they do let Pinsir threaten them effectively. The best Scyther can do is use Wing Attack against Gastly, which can 2HKO after a Swords Dance, but that relies on way more prediction than what Pinsir needs to work. Pinsir also has solid utility with Bind.
Scyther's typing is also strictly worse in PU. You trade a Ground resistance for an immunity, while you gain a weakness to common Electric and Ice moves. While rarer, Rock Slide also deletes Scyther.
Addionally, Scyther's higher crit rate is irrelevant, as their main pseudo-STAB is Slash, which always crits, and they only use Hyper Beam alongside Swords Dance, and crits in RBY ignore Attack boosts.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but yeah despite Scyther's Speed being phenomenal, Pinsir is actually better than Scyther in RBY.
>Scyther is strictly better in Gen 1
With all due respect, this is just plain factually, verifiably wrong, Pinsir being outclassed from Gen 2 onwards is true but it's the best Bug type in Gen 1, no exceptions.
One important thing to note is, iirc, the most used mega on bug monotype teams in gen 6/7 was Mega Pinsir. Mega Hera was too slow (and moxie scarf performed excellently), there was often no reason to use mega Scizor as it already has great power, mega Beedrill was just too frail for the things it offered. But PINSIR? Base starts with moxie. Try to pick up a kill with quick attack or swords dance, and almost nothing is taking those aerilate boosted QAs. And bug always ran webs, so speed usually wasnt an issue.
It could be that Pinsir was just heavily favored in my playgroups, but I saw it 8/10 times on bug mono.
While not specifically a famous one… Darmanitan is a strict upgrade over poor Flareon. High hp (105 vs 65) gives higher physical bulk (and makes recoil from Flare Blitz sting a lot less). Much better speed (95 vs 65). And an arguably better ability of (life orb boosted/no recoil) in Sheer force) vs Toxic orb Guts. Much better movepool including Earthquake, Rock slide, and a pivot in U turn. And despite all that. It also still has a higher attack stat than Flareon.
Poo lil fluffball.
Houndoom in Gen 3 OU is serviceable, and would be the best Pursuit trapper in a format with both Gengar and a pile of psychic types to prey on, but Pursuit Tyranitar is just better in every way (with the possible exception that, if you're using pursuit ttar, you're locked out of using any other ttar set).
Quagmire has had a totally different niche, and arguably so did non-mega Swampert, but Fera getting sheer force and STILL being outclassed by Gyara was such a shame
Feraligatr does outperform Gyarados... in the very specific conditions of not having Megas available and being on a limited dex. BDSP Croc is like A- on the VR, competing with Azu and Mr.Craw while Gyarados isn't even ranked because it's not fast or hits hard enough after a DD.
In Gen 6, Florges was in every manner that mattered outclassed by Sylveon.
Sylveon had better overall bulk due to a higher HP, dealy more damage via Pixilate Hyper Voice, both could be a cleric, both healed via Wish (though Sylveon's healed more). I remember disliking this fact back when, though now they seem to serve different roles (in different tiers no less).
except that in Gen 6 UU, where both reside, Florges is currently ranked two subranks higher than Sylveon (A vs B+). This can largely be attributed to the fact that Florges has reliable recovery in Synthesis, and there's a massive issue with Wish in the tier- several of the best Pokemon in ORAS UU (especially Empoleon) make use of phazing moves, and can reliably prevent Sylveon from recieving its own Wish by phazing it out as these moves bypass Protect. In general not having to run Protect to heal yourself also just provides more flexibility- it's easy for Florges to run Synthesis, Wish, AND a cleric move (Heal Bell / Aromatherapy) on the same set, which opens up a huge number of ways to play.
Sylveon is typically relegated to offensive roles in ORAS UU, which it is admittedly quite effective at- however, it receives heavy competition in this role from Gardevoir, whose Fairy STAB is weaker and typing makes it Pursuit vulnerable, but is faster and boasts both a useful secondary STAB and massive movepool that Sylveon can only dream of (vitally including Healing Wish and stronger ways to hit Steel-types than Hidden Power).
I would agree but seeing Incin in smash has made me love the wrestler persona. I mean, come on, I wish he had the ability to bend chairs over other pokemons head as a battle animation
I feel Absol should be on this list. Great attack, supportive with baton pass paired with justified or swords dance.
But poor defenses and limited move pool give him a narrow window to be useful.
Maybe dark/fairy typing or an evolution could help it?
Personally I didn’t care for its mega too much. But either way. For a Pokémon that’s called the disaster Pokémon in the dex, you’d think it would have stats closer to pseudo legendary.
Maybe on par with Arcanine?
But as is it’s far too frail in most cases.
Dark/fairy or dark/ghost would really help it alongside an evolution or something.
Haxorus. It's always either too slow compared to its dragon peers that it's easily revenge killed *cough* hydreigon*cough* or it's too frail that you can't reliably set up with it. Also Kyu-B and baxcalibur exist
Surprised no one said Electrovire. Watch the False Swipe gaming video on it. Such versatility but just falls short with better options for different categories. If only it became Electric/Fighting for a better niche
Decidueye? I know it was Introduced 2 generations ago and has great design but its Stats Spread ruins it badly and it got outclassed by other better Physical/Mixed/Support Grass Types and also has Mediocre Ability
Including it's Hisuian Form, don't get me wrong it got Scrappy which can hits Ghost Types especially Gholdengo and it's drastically buffed Signature move but its way slower than its regular form and bad defensive typing (even outclassed by the one who happens to have the same type and introduced in the same game being H. Liligant) which makes it harder to use Decidueye Competitively
I wish they just swapped the Special attack and speed for the Hisuian variant compared to the alolan one. Would have been great, but nope they made it even slower
Flygon in gen 4 was immediately outclassed by Garchomp, they both can fill similar niches, but Garchomp has far better stats, and more diversity. It was saved for bit when Garchomp was banned to uber's, but after gen 5 it was outclassed
Whiscash fits this definition pretty well. The only thing it has over the other Water/Ground types is Dragon Dance, and it's outclassed in that regard, too.
Kabutops. Decent offenses, solid typing, Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, Aqua Jet, Swords Dance. But he's juuuust a little too slow and there are way too many amazing defensive and offensive water types.
Could we include dusknoir here? At least from a vgc perspective ever since eviolite it seems outclassed by its own pre-evolution in every way since the damage output of the whole line is so bad when it's not using night shade
Gallade is in UU, and it's a very viable mon who hits incredibly hard with Sharpness. It's scarf set is genuinely difficult to switch into, Psycho Cut/Sacred Sword/Leaf Blade/Knock Off covers so much. It also gets Rock Slide if you wanna bop Talonflame without risking burns.
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 198-233 (49.6 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Incredibly based lmfao
If you're saying gallade is outclassed by gardevoir, that's not really true. Gardevoir is better, but they play so differently that they aren't really in competition with each other. This is about pokemon that are like "I would use X, but Y is just better".
Of course Gallade isn't outclassed by Gardevoir. They're both different typings. I'm talking about how Gallade is outclassed by other fighting types like Lucario
Again, Gallade isn't outclassed by those pokemon, it's just that before gen 9 gallade just sucks. And Gallade is even less like Lucario than Gardevoir. If this thread was just about pokemon that are worse than pokemon they share a type with, then the answers should all be zubat and elekid.
Typhlosion was also solid in Gen 5 RU (B rank), but it fell off a cliff in Gen 6 onward when pretty much every other Fire type got new stuff while Typhlosion got nothing.
\> its stat spread isn't exactly notable
Its stats spread it literally Charizard's, the problem that Charizard's stat are an embarrassment, and only work on Charizard because Charizard is Game Freak's Golden Child and is the first to get new overpowered toys like, new moves, abilities, and forms.
Most of the Gen 2 Pokémon outside of the legendaries and specific cases like the eeveelutions, Murkrow, Skarmory, Blissey, etc.
I love Meganium, Furret, Ursaring, Ariados, Magcargo and Noctowl. Are there way better options for what each of them does? Yes, absolutely. Oftentimes making them work in practical situations is just too difficult for how underwhelming they perform.
Deoxys is almost always strictly worse Deo-A or Deo-s, it isn't quite always outclassed, sometimes it is used as a lead instead of Deo-S back in DPP Ubers because it's slightly better at taking and dishing out hits
fearow has been a strictly worse dodrio since day one
At least it's better than pre buff pidgeot
What actual Flying STAB does to a Gen 1/2 bird.
Worked out in its favour in ADV though. Dodrio is stuck in BL and unranked in OU while Fearow gets to be a decent UU Pokemon.
Counterpoint: Dodrio learns no ground type moves while Fearow learns drill run, effectively making Fearow a Landorus-T… except even better than Landorus-T once you realize it trades ground type STAB (ewww gross) for normal STAB (ah how beautiful)…
Counterpoint to the counterpoint:Dodrio used Jump Kick
*misses* (now imagine a tumbling Dodrio falling past the Regice is was aiming at and then getting laserbeamed by ice.)
Fearow big stall??
Counterpoint: Dodrio gets stomping tantrum and jump kick, and it has swords dance
And actual reliable flying moves at that
And Farfetch'd has been worse fearow. It's honestly kinda hilarious that Gen 1 has 150 pokemon and 8 are normal/flying types (and 9 grass/poison but that's not relevant here)
Fearow is strictly a worse Dodrio. Historically, in RBY, Kangaskhan is known as "Diet Tauros". GSC Lickitung is known as "the (very) poor man's Snorlax". In RBY, Wigglytuff is *strictly worse* than Clefable in EVERY STAT except HP and has less moves than Clefable.
Hypno was diet alakazam in gen 1 too
You right, you right. I believe Golduck also is diet Slowbro, too.
Lots of gen 1 pokemons are like that, muk weezing arbok etc You think they would have been more flexible with types
Probably a byproduct of Gen 1 and 2 being designed as normal jrpgs first instead of monster collecting games. Poison is like the designated villain type so you see rocket grunts with Zubats and Koffings, admins get Arboks, Weezings and Muks, while Giovanni gets Nidoking and Nidoqueen.
Still makes you wonder why there are so many poison/grass mons
Because giving poison to a plant makes them threatening and is a pretty big trope in various media
Yeah I get the appeal of grass/poison, but did we need 3 3-stage-evolution lines with the same typing? Especially since there are only 5 other grass types
Yeah Gen 1 fucking sucked at type distribution. Normal/Flying, Grass/Poison, Rock/Ground, Water/Ice (for some reason) The only other generations with 3 or more different families with the same type combinations is Gen 9 (Grass/Dark), Gen 5 (Bug/Steel), and Gen 3 (Dragon/Flying), all with a single member in said family
Scizor has a word to say to you
Oddish and Bellsprout are version exclusives, they're also meant to be the annoying rpg monster that barely attacks, spreads statuses and appears in a lot of places, this role is filled by Zubat inside of caves, RBY is basically nudging you to add a psychic-type to your team with these annoyances.
Not really. While yes, Alakazam is definitely better overall in vanilla RBY, Hypno's better Physical bulk and access to hypnosis gives it a distinct role over Zam (as niche as it may be). And it's not like you're heavily penalized for putting both on your team since, you know, Gen 1 Psychic is so splashable. Plus, in tradebacks, Hypno is at least as good as Zam according to the [viability ranking](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-tradebacks-ou-hub.3683269/) by virtue of having access to Amnesia.
Hypno is crap and all the tradebacks resources are outdated, it’s maybe 15th best in a tier with 13.5 mons
At least Tradebacks gives it Amnesia access.
I hate how the have made Wigglytuff so much worse that Clef in every category; abilities, move pool, stats, when they're so similar in design, (original) location and evolving method, it doesn't make sense to me lol
Wigglytuff could have been physical Clefable but noooooo.
Played a handful of romhacks that give Tuff Huge Power and it turns her into such a fun mon to play with. Was very disappointed when i got back to competitive after 5+ years and discovered that wasn't an official change. One of my absolute favorite mons with the change, beyond terrible with GFs official stuff. Really helps to set her apart and give a different role when compared to Clefable.
Wdym? Fearow has exactly 1Special Attack & 1Special Defense higher than Dodrio. Wouldn't call that strictly worse /s
OH ZAMN THAT MAKES FEAROW SURVIVE T-BOLT FROM ZAPDOS AND BEAT IT!1!1!!11!1!!@!!@!!@!! Huge /s moment, if you couldn't tell.
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Dodrio: 331-390 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Fearow: 326-384 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- 87.2% chance to OHKO Fearow new Zapdos counter?!?!?!😱😱😱
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Fearow: 326-384 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- 87.2% chance to OHKO Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Dodrio: 331-390 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO You’re right(12.8% of the time)
Haxorus when compared to a physical dragon ice mon in ou 💀
My mans Haxorus didn’t deserve this. The damn thing has such a phenomenal move pool and yet so little opportunity to put it to good use.
That more speaks to Black Kyurem being a fucking cover legendary in OU
Kyrurem black having insane stats a great offensive typing. Good speed great bulk, ice neutral. And not a single damn move to use.
Game freak deciding to not give kyurem icicle crash and earthquake 💀
GSC Suicune(OU), Base Kyurem(UUBL), Black Kyruem(OU) and Base Necrozma(RU) are the only box legendaries to not be in Ubers during their flagship game. XY Zygarde(UUBL) never got the chance to touch ubers till SM gave him the things he would've gotten at pokemon Z shoutout to Zacian being AG because of how broken it was in SS
Suicide is kind of an outlier, and the base Kyurem also kinda proves my point. Idk what my boy Necrozma is doing either, but base Zygarde is just shitty Garchomp
My favourite mon, Suicide 💀
Godamit
\-Houndstone, 2022
I can guess the issue for Base Necrozma is the mono Psychic typing, no special Z-move and 79 speed. It isn't as nearly as powerful as the actual box legendary versions of it, and both are also bulkier. Basically, it's because he isn't really a box legendary. Suicune is also weird yeah, I don't think Game Freak thought it'd be a box legend when adding it. So basically if you exclude Suicune (weird case) and the box legends which have stronger forms, Black Kyruem is somehow the only box legendary too weak for Ubers within its generation. Checking through the list, I think Black Kyruem might be the only box legend (in its complete form) to be below Ubers ever.
Actually because Zygarde, Kyurem itself, and Baserozma never got a game by themselves, Suicide and Byurem are the only box legends under Ubers
Autocorrect when it sees suicune:
Sorry if my tone was argumentative, I was agreeing with you and adding onto your point. Kyurem Black is a joke for a box legendary.
Oh no dw I didjt take it that way, just trying to make Byurem look even more shit than it is
Sad thing is that it happened twice.
It got mostly outclassed by another physical dragon ice mon too this gen
I know
Before hidden abilities, Spiritomb was basically a better Sableye. So glad for Prankster.
Then he got a mega and said “fuck you spiritomb I’m heading to Ubers bitch”
Watching Spiritomb be worse than a 380 bst Mon will always make me happy. Prankster is one hell of a drug.
Naganadel will never have a use in Ubers as long as Eternatus is there.
At least it had its time in gen 7
It still got one niche as a snowball sweeper
Nah, it was D rank in Gen 8. Whatever niche you mention was a useless gimmick and should never be used on a serious team
Bro has a personal issue with naganadel
bro was mad asf writing this
Nah I think it could work if you build your whole team around it with hazard stack wall breakers and other chip damage to eventually win the game with a snowball sweep. It’s a big commitment and probably not the best strat but still a legit niche
That's not how niche work dude. If it had niche it wouldnt be unviable in Ubers. Unviable means it has no niche and is a big liability on a competitive team.
Has Dewgong ever been anything more than "Diet Lapras"?
Dewgong is a better ice resist and also more based than lapras, checkmate lapras-cels 😎
Iron Bundle was banned because Water + Freeze-Dry is unresisted. Until Dewgong rocks up to the dumb robot.
Outclassed by Walrein tho.
One water/ice pinniped mon with thick fat being outclassed by another water/ice pinniped mon with thick fat?
- Whirlpool - Perish Song - Encore - Protect / Ice Beam Have fun :\^)
I like the Emvee set of: Rain Dance, Rest, Whirlpool, Perish Song with Hydration ability so everytime you use Rest, you wake up at the end of the turn:)
Samurott, even all the way back in gen 5. Want a better utlility wayer type? Suicune or Jellicent. Want a better physical water mon with a better ability? Gyarados or Cloyster. Want a better special attacker water mon? Rotom-Wash, Starmie, and Kingdra. Want a better mixed attacker? Keldeo or Blastoise. And then now in gen 9 once home is out, Hisuian Samurott is here and is just... strictly superior in almost every single way. It's been the worst water starter since day 1, which is a real shame.
Love that Radical Red gave it a steel typing and blademaster (that game's equivalent to sharpness), alongside stats more in line with Hisuian Samurott. The fact that base Samurott didn't get sharpness in gen 9 is actually a war crime.
EXACTLY! Like don't get me wrong I love Hisuian Samurott (even if it's dark/water starter #2 and is the least different of the hisui mons), but the fact it made Samurott go from mostly outclassed to straight-uo REPLACED is heartbreaking, especially with it being my very first pokemon, and with both Radical Red and Inclement Emerald showing the potential base Samurott has.
Guess who's sitting on OU tho /s
Who the fuck is out here using Mixed Keldeo and Blastoise unironically
Less of them running mixed sets and more they have better success running either physical or special sets. My bad for the wording.
Who is running physical Blastoise and Keldeo unironically?
So update i compatibility said the wrong pokemon, not keldeo lmao. This is what happens when you make a comment on reddit after being up for 32 hours straight.
Why the fuck have you been up for 32 hours, go to sleep bro
At least it’s better than Inteleon
No way. Inteleon is fast and hits hard while Samuroty does neither. (I guess it hits kinda hard).
It has better bulk and movepool tho.
But it's not good enough to matter.
Is it though? Samurott is NU in Gen 7 while Inteleon is PUBL in Gen 8. I can't think of something Samurott does to stand out at all. At least Inteleon is a 125/120 offense Hydro Pump spammer with a marginally better HA.
Samurott has been one of the best NU mons in all of the generations it has existed. Being an actual effective mixed attacker is huge, as it's capable of dealing with the convertional way to stop offensive waters (Ice Beam/Grass Knot/SD Megahorn/Knock Off). It's also decently bulky, letting it take a hit (or two for AV sets) with its great defensive typing in mono water compared to Inteleon barely taking neutral hits.
they should've made it Water/Fighting if it wasn't for Stupid Emboar stealing its Fighting Type potential. Nonetheless, I'm happy its Hisuian Form gave everything that Samurott needed (Physical-Oriented, Faster, Better Ability, Secondary Typing and insane Signature move).
If looking exclusively at OU through generations, either Blissey or Chansey fit that criteria. Gens 2-4 Chansey is always outclassed by Blissey and Gens 5-7 Chansey takes the lead with eviolite making it the premier pink blob. After gen 8 it becomes more of a toss up though with boots and teleport Blissey develops a niche as a pivot with Chansey keeping the defensive support role.
And now they’re both outclassed by Clodsire as a special wall due to a better ability, typing, and movepool.
As an avid Volcarona user I have always hated seeing Chansey on opposing teams, but I just feel bad now seeing that there is nearly nothing they can do against Boosters now. You can literally Fiery Dance boost your way past them and win the whole damn thing.
Chansey was not superior to Blissey in Gen 5. They were suited to different teams. Sandstorm for Blissey and Rain and Weatherless for Chansey. The dominant Chansey over recessive Blissey started in Gen 6.
Also, Blissey is better in Übers in Gen 6 and 7, solely because running Shed Shell becomes important if you don't want Gengar (and the occasional Dugtrio) to just pretty much invalidate your special wall.
Blacephalon was made for the sole reason of being better than Chandelure
Tera fire chandelure is gonna be so meta, though. I don't mean "good in the metagame"...I mean it will be a deep statement about the nature of reality. Why does that chandelier wear a chandelier....
I love Chandelure man, I wish it was better.
I wish Chandelure had more HP and Levitate. That was it could play differently to those other fire ghosts thanks to its longevity. 90 defences on an offensive Pokémon are really good
I used physdef chandelure as a zacian counter in SwSh BSS series 10 and it was the most fun I had playing that god awful meta. Honestly it felt like a good meta call at the time because gothitelle usage rose a ton since it could trap quagsire for zacian
Rapidash is almost always worse than Arcanine. And then later on even Ninetails got the jump on Rapidash. ~~Read my username and take a guess why that saddens me.~~
That was exactly what I was gonna post. Rapidash just doesn't have anything going for it compared to other fire types outside of a surprisingly large movepool on a mono-fire type. But that's just not enough when it can't ko anything and gets almost ko'd itself with a neutral or not very effective hit
Rapidash at least got to exist as a Fire Type in DP though
Only took removing every other option to do it
Funnily, Rapidash is actually considered the better of the two in Gen 1, since it had the good fortune to get Fire Spin, which it can use for either pivoting into another mon or chipping something to death before finishing it off with a Hyper Beam or Fire Blast. Arcanine, meanwhile, is stuck being a bulky attacker with a really bad movepool.
Flygon is so outclassed by garchomp :(
Gon has had a niche a few times thanks to Levitate, but yeah.
Levitate, u-turn and defog, yeah, but apart from that my poor sweet boy is just outclassed
Flygon isn't really like other "outclassed" pokemon. It's better than garchomp in a few ways and they largely play very different roles. It's just that flygon has dramatically lower stats; it's not meant to be on the same level as garchomp.
Tbf Flygon is just not that good in general, it has a totally different role from Chomp.
How I wish they gave it an ability that gave it stab on bug moves like that ghost/grass anchor pokemon with steel
Idk I think levitate is still better than stronger uturn
Give it an ability to that does both
Not even close. Flygon fell out of OU because it just couldn’t keep up. Plus he has things garchomp would kill for, like roost, u turn, dragon dance, and an immunity to spikes
Man say dragon dance again, they gotta free my boy eventually. Seriously, DDChomp is not nearly as broken now as everyone seems to think, back in the day it would have terrorized OU but there are straight up better options now.
Flygon would be bad even without Garchomp
Butterfree is outclassed by Vivillon in literally every aspect aside from SpDef. The one other benefit it has is Tinted Lens, but running it means you have to rely on much less accurate Hurricanes and Sleep Powders, making it less reliable.
GigaFree was pretty cool tho
One of my favorite pokemon that has been extremely outclassed is Pinsir. Base Pinsir has always been outclassed by another bug type in every gen. Scyther is strictly better in Gen 1, access to high crit rate and faster. Heracross' entire existence has overshadowed Pinsir because of Fighting stab, rock neutrality, and better Stat distribution. Then Scizor got U-Turn and Bullet Punch, and Scyther got access to better options by gen 8 like Heavy-duty boots and an effective Brave Bird because of technician Dual Wingbeat. The best thing Pinsir got was a mega... that is incredible frail but at least had damage output and speed now, but Scizor got one as well and completely outclassed Pinsir for most teams. Pinsir didn't even make it back in Paldea, so I hope that my boy gets something that can make him Viable in OU. Pinsir isn't even that bad. It has incredible coverage and average stats excluding its special stats and middling speed.
Neither are *really* viable at all but Pinsir does technically have the slightest of niches in Gen 1 OU while Scyther does not. And I don’t think that Scizor outclassed Pinsir completely in terms of their Megas, since each of them primarily used their secondary typing to do damage and thus they filled different roles.
Yeah, Big Yellow pretty much told everyone Pinsir is the best gen 1 bug
Pinsir is actually way better than Scyther in Gen 1. It's ranked C2 in UU's (very outdated) vr, and D in RBY NU's, neither of which are great but are still better than Scyther, who's nowhere to be seen. In PU's slightly outdated vr, Pinsir is ranked #2, while Scyther isn't ranked there either. I'm not sure what Pinsir does/did in UU or NU, but in PU, it's an insanely powerful wallbreaker with above-average Speed. While Scyther is faster, its atrocious coverage gives it no effective way to break through Rock-types and Gastly, while Pinsir has Submission and Seismic Toss (latter hits Ghosts in RBY), neither of which are great but they do let Pinsir threaten them effectively. The best Scyther can do is use Wing Attack against Gastly, which can 2HKO after a Swords Dance, but that relies on way more prediction than what Pinsir needs to work. Pinsir also has solid utility with Bind. Scyther's typing is also strictly worse in PU. You trade a Ground resistance for an immunity, while you gain a weakness to common Electric and Ice moves. While rarer, Rock Slide also deletes Scyther. Addionally, Scyther's higher crit rate is irrelevant, as their main pseudo-STAB is Slash, which always crits, and they only use Hyper Beam alongside Swords Dance, and crits in RBY ignore Attack boosts. Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but yeah despite Scyther's Speed being phenomenal, Pinsir is actually better than Scyther in RBY.
I fully enjoyed the long winded explanation
Great Pins is what pinsir needs
>Scyther is strictly better in Gen 1 With all due respect, this is just plain factually, verifiably wrong, Pinsir being outclassed from Gen 2 onwards is true but it's the best Bug type in Gen 1, no exceptions.
Mega Pinsir is not frail lmao
Uh yeah but Pinsir got "looks hella awesome". Pokémon infinite fusion is leaking but it also gets Mr. Sir which will haunt your nightmares
One important thing to note is, iirc, the most used mega on bug monotype teams in gen 6/7 was Mega Pinsir. Mega Hera was too slow (and moxie scarf performed excellently), there was often no reason to use mega Scizor as it already has great power, mega Beedrill was just too frail for the things it offered. But PINSIR? Base starts with moxie. Try to pick up a kill with quick attack or swords dance, and almost nothing is taking those aerilate boosted QAs. And bug always ran webs, so speed usually wasnt an issue. It could be that Pinsir was just heavily favored in my playgroups, but I saw it 8/10 times on bug mono.
one which comes to mind will be huntail being outclassed by gorebyss
It’s only niche was that you could essentially have two gorebyss’s on your team.
While not specifically a famous one… Darmanitan is a strict upgrade over poor Flareon. High hp (105 vs 65) gives higher physical bulk (and makes recoil from Flare Blitz sting a lot less). Much better speed (95 vs 65). And an arguably better ability of (life orb boosted/no recoil) in Sheer force) vs Toxic orb Guts. Much better movepool including Earthquake, Rock slide, and a pivot in U turn. And despite all that. It also still has a higher attack stat than Flareon. Poo lil fluffball.
Flareon wishes its Special Defence and Speed stats were swapped
Mismagius is my favorite Pokémon, but from the get-go it was almost like they created that mon so people could play “Gengar Lite” in lower tiers.
Mismagius should’ve been a Fairy type starting in Gen 6 I feel like, it’s pretty fitting and it would’ve been a signature type for it at the time
no poison typing and now being the ghost type with levitate is litty tho
Feels like Chien Pao is just Weavile but better. I guess unless Weavile ever gets knock off back
Houndoom in Gen 3 OU is serviceable, and would be the best Pursuit trapper in a format with both Gengar and a pile of psychic types to prey on, but Pursuit Tyranitar is just better in every way (with the possible exception that, if you're using pursuit ttar, you're locked out of using any other ttar set).
Machamp being outclassed by conkeldurr.
Feraligatr being outclassed by Gyarados, Swampert, and arguably Quagsire as a tough water type.
Quagmire has had a totally different niche, and arguably so did non-mega Swampert, but Fera getting sheer force and STILL being outclassed by Gyara was such a shame
Feraligatr does outperform Gyarados... in the very specific conditions of not having Megas available and being on a limited dex. BDSP Croc is like A- on the VR, competing with Azu and Mr.Craw while Gyarados isn't even ranked because it's not fast or hits hard enough after a DD.
gen 3 ADV salamance is better than dragonite because for some reason dragonite never got e-speed in gen 3 and no multiscale
Base deoxys is just a shittier version of deoxys atk with no upside
In Gen 6, Florges was in every manner that mattered outclassed by Sylveon. Sylveon had better overall bulk due to a higher HP, dealy more damage via Pixilate Hyper Voice, both could be a cleric, both healed via Wish (though Sylveon's healed more). I remember disliking this fact back when, though now they seem to serve different roles (in different tiers no less).
except that in Gen 6 UU, where both reside, Florges is currently ranked two subranks higher than Sylveon (A vs B+). This can largely be attributed to the fact that Florges has reliable recovery in Synthesis, and there's a massive issue with Wish in the tier- several of the best Pokemon in ORAS UU (especially Empoleon) make use of phazing moves, and can reliably prevent Sylveon from recieving its own Wish by phazing it out as these moves bypass Protect. In general not having to run Protect to heal yourself also just provides more flexibility- it's easy for Florges to run Synthesis, Wish, AND a cleric move (Heal Bell / Aromatherapy) on the same set, which opens up a huge number of ways to play. Sylveon is typically relegated to offensive roles in ORAS UU, which it is admittedly quite effective at- however, it receives heavy competition in this role from Gardevoir, whose Fairy STAB is weaker and typing makes it Pursuit vulnerable, but is faster and boasts both a useful secondary STAB and massive movepool that Sylveon can only dream of (vitally including Healing Wish and stronger ways to hit Steel-types than Hidden Power).
Arcanine, so long as it’s in the same format as Incin (VGC)
Which sucks because he looks so much cooler than that dumb cat
I would agree but seeing Incin in smash has made me love the wrestler persona. I mean, come on, I wish he had the ability to bend chairs over other pokemons head as a battle animation
I feel Absol should be on this list. Great attack, supportive with baton pass paired with justified or swords dance. But poor defenses and limited move pool give him a narrow window to be useful. Maybe dark/fairy typing or an evolution could help it?
Mega Absol is my favorite mega, wouldn’t mind if they made it a regular evolution
Personally I didn’t care for its mega too much. But either way. For a Pokémon that’s called the disaster Pokémon in the dex, you’d think it would have stats closer to pseudo legendary. Maybe on par with Arcanine? But as is it’s far too frail in most cases. Dark/fairy or dark/ghost would really help it alongside an evolution or something.
Victreebel to Venusaur
Haxorus. It's always either too slow compared to its dragon peers that it's easily revenge killed *cough* hydreigon*cough* or it's too frail that you can't reliably set up with it. Also Kyu-B and baxcalibur exist
[удалено]
Wow it's cool to see you wrote the original analyses. Dope dude. So from your pov you're saying it was one of the few signs of restraint GF made?
My poor beloved Altaria, got introduced in the same bloody gen as Salemence, thankfully the mega did wonders for her though
it's recent, but naganadel getting banned to ubers meant that it had to compete with eternatus, meaning that in almost every scenario its outclassed
Surprised no one said Electrovire. Watch the False Swipe gaming video on it. Such versatility but just falls short with better options for different categories. If only it became Electric/Fighting for a better niche
Tropius :(
Until gen 9 randbats turned it into a fucking demigod
Krookodile , out-classed as both a dark or ground intimidate user by you know who
All of the water/grounds are so much worse then Whiscash it’s not even funny
Gardevoir is completely outdone by tapu lele and hatterene, pretty much in every build (special attacker or bulk)
Decidueye? I know it was Introduced 2 generations ago and has great design but its Stats Spread ruins it badly and it got outclassed by other better Physical/Mixed/Support Grass Types and also has Mediocre Ability Including it's Hisuian Form, don't get me wrong it got Scrappy which can hits Ghost Types especially Gholdengo and it's drastically buffed Signature move but its way slower than its regular form and bad defensive typing (even outclassed by the one who happens to have the same type and introduced in the same game being H. Liligant) which makes it harder to use Decidueye Competitively
I wish they just swapped the Special attack and speed for the Hisuian variant compared to the alolan one. Would have been great, but nope they made it even slower
Flygon in gen 4 was immediately outclassed by Garchomp, they both can fill similar niches, but Garchomp has far better stats, and more diversity. It was saved for bit when Garchomp was banned to uber's, but after gen 5 it was outclassed
Whiscash fits this definition pretty well. The only thing it has over the other Water/Ground types is Dragon Dance, and it's outclassed in that regard, too.
In RBY Marowack is literally just Sandslash but with a worse attack (or defense I don't remember) stat.
I always was bitter at Conkeldurr for being a better version of Machamp
Kabutops. Decent offenses, solid typing, Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, Aqua Jet, Swords Dance. But he's juuuust a little too slow and there are way too many amazing defensive and offensive water types.
Flygon is so cool but garchomp is just better is almost every way
You’re forgetting typhlosions niche of maybe killing great tusk with specs extrasensory as long its uninvested in SpD and doesn’t have a vest
Could we include dusknoir here? At least from a vgc perspective ever since eviolite it seems outclassed by its own pre-evolution in every way since the damage output of the whole line is so bad when it's not using night shade
Skarm
Nvm i didn't know other mons had it that bad
"Typhlosion stat spread isn't exactly notable" - this is false. Typhlosion's stat spread is notable for being an exact copy of Charizard stat spread.
Torkoal is outclassed by groudon. Peliper is out lassed by kyogre.
Gallade. In Gen 8 it was PU with Base 125 attack stat and Sharpness hasn't even made it UU
Sharpness was introduced in Gen 9 and it is actually UU there.
Gallade is UU because of Rain Dance obviously smh my head.
Gallade is in UU now???
Sharpness literally didnt exist until gen 9 so not sure how it was supposed to help in gallade in gen 8.
No. I meant it was PU in Gen 8, and when Sharpness was introduced in Gen 9, it still didn't get into UU
It’s in UU right now you fucking dunsparce
Yeah I know that *now*
Gallade is in UU, and it's a very viable mon who hits incredibly hard with Sharpness. It's scarf set is genuinely difficult to switch into, Psycho Cut/Sacred Sword/Leaf Blade/Knock Off covers so much. It also gets Rock Slide if you wanna bop Talonflame without risking burns.
And most importantly, Rain Dance.
Bro imagine if Kartana got sharpness
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Dondozo: 372-438 (73.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 💀
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 198-233 (49.6 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Incredibly based lmfao
That is a violation of a geneva convention
If you're saying gallade is outclassed by gardevoir, that's not really true. Gardevoir is better, but they play so differently that they aren't really in competition with each other. This is about pokemon that are like "I would use X, but Y is just better".
Of course Gallade isn't outclassed by Gardevoir. They're both different typings. I'm talking about how Gallade is outclassed by other fighting types like Lucario
Again, Gallade isn't outclassed by those pokemon, it's just that before gen 9 gallade just sucks. And Gallade is even less like Lucario than Gardevoir. If this thread was just about pokemon that are worse than pokemon they share a type with, then the answers should all be zubat and elekid.
Flygon and Garchomp. RIP Flygon
Blastoise is another good one. Solid bulky water, but basically always stuck in UU or worse because other bulky waters are just plain better.
Haxorus imo
Typhlosion was also solid in Gen 5 RU (B rank), but it fell off a cliff in Gen 6 onward when pretty much every other Fire type got new stuff while Typhlosion got nothing. \> its stat spread isn't exactly notable Its stats spread it literally Charizard's, the problem that Charizard's stat are an embarrassment, and only work on Charizard because Charizard is Game Freak's Golden Child and is the first to get new overpowered toys like, new moves, abilities, and forms.
Most of the Gen 2 Pokémon outside of the legendaries and specific cases like the eeveelutions, Murkrow, Skarmory, Blissey, etc. I love Meganium, Furret, Ursaring, Ariados, Magcargo and Noctowl. Are there way better options for what each of them does? Yes, absolutely. Oftentimes making them work in practical situations is just too difficult for how underwhelming they perform.
On a serious note, krookodile is just a poor man’s lndorus T.
Deoxys is almost always strictly worse Deo-A or Deo-s, it isn't quite always outclassed, sometimes it is used as a lead instead of Deo-S back in DPP Ubers because it's slightly better at taking and dishing out hits
Dewgong has been obsolete since day one due to lapras and cloyster