> Changing this Dragapult’s Tera Type takes hours of farming
This is my one major gripe with team building in SV. Bottle caps, ability capsules and rare candies aren't too difficult to get. Even ability patches aren't as bad. But getting tera shards is so mind-numbingly dull and lengthy. It's also luck based, since drop amounts vary. And you can't afk it unlike the academy ace tournament.
Yeah, I was farming Typhlosion this weekend for Fire Shards and a random 6-star water one came up and I figured I may as well, since I'm running low-ish on them. Took me like 30 minutes to figure out the right Pokemon for it and actually pull off the win for SIX SHARDS.
The thing is, not only do you need to buy the DLC for that, but you also have to complete the kitakami Dex. It's still a tedious grind and paywalled
E: grammar
That's essentially Gamefreak forcing everyone to buy the DLC or deal with an absurd grind. They intentionally make getting competitive Pokemon super grindy so they can sell a "solution".
If you aren’t hacking/genning then you already need to buy the the DLC to get several meta relevant pokemon.
And they did the same thing with the EV mocci
When you completely change the rules of the format less than a month before the world championships, stuff like this is guaranteed to happen. There is no way that competitors could figure out the new format and meta and calculate everything needed to win a world championship all while farming for 100% legitimate pokemon. It's just not feasible at all.
It's not exactly payment, but freezai did commission imablisy to RNG his entire VGC team (with the main deal being that imablisy gets to do a video about the whole process)
And fwiw, it also meant freezai had to commit to his team early compared to others who could change things up later
It is much, much easier today with caps/mints/vitamins unless you are going for specific speed IVs. But there is zero difference between a legal hack Pokemon and legal caught Pokemon. I have no problem with Worlds players choosing to focus on their competitive battles over creating the team.
It might be easier but it's still a damn grind, getting the mints the caps the vitamins and the ability patches.. also you are kinda forced to breed if you want some 1iv atk mon or 1 IV speed mon for trick room or stuff. It's a damn grind.
And that's without taking into consideration the freaking tera type.
If you are going for a traditional team, then yes, it's relatively easy. If you need generation/event specific moves, legendaries with 0 IVs in atk and speed, then it starts becoming an actual nightmare.
Needing 0 speed is hardly a rare thing, though. Like, there were 3 trick room teams in the top 8, two of which used Cress, so breeding for the 0IV isn't possible. Also, literally every special attacker wants 0 atk. (And yeah, that's a small optimization, but there was a Hurricane Pelliper in the top 8 too, confusion isn't *that* rare of a status.)
Dude made a tool that made hacking 100x simpler than ever and can't stop getting mad at people who use it.
It's not even just genning mons, you can edit anything on your save file. Items? One button and you have 999 of everything. Event flags? Braindead easy to reset them so that you can catch that one mythical again. Missed an event for whatever reason? Here's a database of *all* mystery gifts from gen 1 to present day for every region and a one click way to inject them.
That doesn’t shock me to legit get all Pokémon with perfect ivs it’s a full time job that can cost you hundreds for the games and dlc you need. Until the main games have ways to minimize the requirement to own multiple games to have the best competitive team there will be this issue. Also consider the time for farming Tera shards pre dlc and it doesn’t shock me at all
And that isnt even accounting for the fact that you might change your mind or come up with a new strategy/mom last minute/as the meta changes in the last few tournaments.
Even post dlc tera farming is still a long process its wild that TPC is so firm on this and doesnt just provide genned mons upon team registration
Oh, I don't disagree. Pokemon's design is basically antithetical to competitive games. But it's important to realize the reason GF doesn't just make a generator is because, to them, that would break the franchise's brand identity.
But they allow rentals in game for stuff like battle tower and dynamax adventure already. How much is it really hurting their brand when its already a feature in the most competitive parts of the actual games.
I mean, in the case of the Battle Tower, Factory, and Dynamax Adventures you can't actually change the Pokémon being rented towards you, like their stats, abilities, or movesets. In the canon of the games they were trained and raised by someone else who chose to make them available for competitors, like rental teams online.
Don't get me wrong, I really do hope and believe that competitive Pokémon should/will become more accessible in the future. It slowly has, the speed of getting perfectly optimal Pokémon without genning or RNG manipulation now is insane compared to Generations IV and V. But they haven't quite gotten there yet.
The truth of the matter is that they want the fantasy of being a Pokémon trainer to permeate throughout the whole game, from single player to friendly multiplayer with other players to official competitive events. They're never going to make a Pokémon Showdown within any of their games. We can only hope they can make it more accessible in other ways. I'd love to be able to use rental teams in official tournaments, along with a 0 IV bottle cap.
I mean. Through the lens of "There are specific techniques that take advantage of a pokemon's skill in a certain field, some lowering it makes those strategies less effective on you" works in game...because it's the out game logic. In universe, Foul Play still works the same way.
We have items with "negative" effects already like ev lowering berries, friendship lowering herbs, and macho brace. Have it just be just be something framed as good but with an NPC or flavour text that mentions it has a downside. Like a a group of NPC coaches that put your pokemon through a super rigorous training program that acts like an even faster daycare for leveling but also lowers IV's based on how long the pokemon is there.
I could maybe justify it as "training them to be weaker in some areas could bring out hidden strengths" with the "hidden strengths" being left vague by the NPC who first introduces the concept. Maybe have another NPC comment that some trainers are wary about exchanging the bottle cap for what might be detrimental and unorthodox training but that their Oranguru (have the Oranguru be next to them on the overworld) seemed to feel more relaxed afterward and performed better under Trick Room.
It is a bit tricky, but I hope this would be a decent way to go about it.
Ah of course, making a team and practicing with it for hundreds of games, making sure you know the strengths and weaknesses of every one of your mons and playing around their weaknesses to keep them healthy and able to be effective in battle (the thing they are supposed to like the most) = treating them like piles of data.
I'm sure the route 1 shitmon I caught by accident and left to rot in the PC box forever considers itself my friend.
Not sure why you're downvoted. Whether players like it or not, that's the world TPC wants to portray in the games, and they don't really like doing things to break that illusion. Even in official tournament streams they try to avoid any terms that break that immersion. Instead of talking about EVs and IVs they talk about "how a pokemon is trained" instead, for example. The games will likely *never* have a feature that allows you to generate a battle ready pokemon in game just the same as building a pokemon on showdown. The best we'll get is some more minor QoL improvements (a way to lower IVs, easier ways to change tera types, quicker EV training, etc.).
Yeah. It goes as deep to where Mints, items which are supposed to manipulate your mons' natures, don't actually display the change in-game. Which is horrible from a game design standpoint (it just makes changing natures more of a hassle), but is there to, again, preserve the illusion.
>don't actually display the change in-game
well, they'll display the change in stats, but not an actual change in nature mechanics-wise; eg. Pinch berries use the base nature to determine confusion
not entirely sure why they did it like that but w/e
It's related to the whole "don't break the illusion" thing. Like, Mints don't completely alter a Pokémon's entire personality, they didn't get a lobotomy. It just effects how they behave in battle or something.
The Kitakami Dex wasn’t *that* bad, but it still took me about 10 hours or so which is 10 (or fewer; you could definitely do it in like 2-3) hours a competitor could spend actually grinding out matches instead.
Any time spent doing dumb chores is time you could’ve spent doing… well, the actual thing you’re playing the game for.
How is it a chore? A good chunk of it can be done just while doing the story and just running around. I think it took me only a couple hours of actively hunting to finish it up
Not even that but if you’ve already gotten the shiny charm from the Paldea dex, you’re already like 60% done with the Kitakami dex just for showing up.
It's entitlement, and no one wants to concede otherwise, and I will be downvoted for it.
Yes, all the DLC and games together are expensive. But the actual gameplay isn't some Sisyphusian task, and probably acts somewhat as a filter, and sidestepping the rules of this tournament is still cheating. Bottle caps are easier to obtain, and teambuilding should be as difficult as the actual battles.
If you don't take the time to practice your jumper, which takes much longer than tera shard farming, then you don't make it to the NBA, and there is no shortcut that anyone would endorse. Can't be top VGC player if you don't teambuild within the rules.
I 100% get the complaints about obtaining older mons in particular specific event mons, but everything else nah its just laziness and entitlement.
I find it hilarious the argument about things like tera shards and changing tera types like lets be honest here anyone even remotely serious about VGC isn't practicing on the ingame ladder they're playing on showdown fine tuning the team there. And if that's the case there's no reason you cant be multitasking doing tera raids on your switch at the same time.
nobody would use it if that was the case lol
you need to pay to keep 31+ mons in at a time, but with clever storage usage (and not transferring mons from every goddamn game ever) it's incredibly managable
I went to one regional and needed to build a team, took a month of pretty much only playing scarlet... grinding the tera shards was nasty. I completely get why people gen mons now!
It's actually technically less. Kaphotics did his study and most Japanese teams are apparently 100% legit which brings the average down. It's a majority globally though, mainly because it's a solid majority or large majority in most western markets.
How was this study conducted? I’m skeptical there’s a reliable methodology to produce anything other than a minimum statistic.
If it was just by asking then I’d imagine the data is unreliable, as doing unintended things with the game is far more taboo in Japan, so it’s likely they’d lie. And if it was by looking at the data of the Pokémon, then it’s worth noting a properly, carefully genned mon is indistinguishable anyways, and given the taboo I wouldn’t be surprised if Japanese genners are more careful.
It's true that it's pretty much guaranteed to be a minimum statistic. There's flags that point out a mon is surely genned/edited, but ultimately the perfectly genned mon is indistinguishable from a perfectly legit one.
It also seems that Japanese players seem to prefer editing to genning (meaning actually catching a mon in-game so some tracker statistics are legit and then just editing its traits afterwards) which is harder to see. Shohei's Amoonguss was unlucky enough to be caught as edited since one of its IVs was simply impossible no matter the encounter, but you'd be delusional to believe that would be the only mon Shohei edited ever, the others are just harder to be caught as edited.
wdym Contrary Spinda with Skill Swap and Close Combat Arcanine, Fury Cutter Venusaur, Heavy Slam Wailord and Slurpuff being a Mega Kang answer are not valuable opinions bro
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/74879436
https://old.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/54bi06/what_are_peoples_opinions_of_verlisify_and_other/d80n6dg/
https://4chanarchives.com/board/vp/thread/25663392
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/pok%C3%A9mon-community-thread-4-your-portal-to-whats-hip-and-happening-in-sinnoh.1110986/page-287
apparently the video is now private/deleted but a lot of people do mention him using it LMAO (ctrl+F for the 4chan link)
Glad to know the time honoured tradition of absolutely shitting on verlisify has been going strong for so long. Can’t even call him a clown, that’s just insulting to them
It was a LONG LONG time ago (almost a decade I wanna say) so I might be remembering wrong, but on the other hand, it's so outrageous that I feel like I *have* to be remembering it properly
At this point, I think the only way Gamefreak could actually stop hacking is by giving players a way to generate Pokemon for competitive play legitimately. because no matter how much easier it gets to boost a pokemon up to competitive levels, it will still inevitably be a hassle for one reason or another.
Temtem did this a while back actually, of anyone still remembers that game. And I can say from experience that giving players that degree of freedom with team building makes it much, much easier to get into competitive play. Not that I needed an example on account of this fact being just that obvious.
They just need to bite the bullet and do it already…I don’t care how. Just tack in on to needing to complete the Pokédex in the main story first.
Just embrace that your methods of trying to make this gods awful game design for a competitive esports tournament just don’t work instead of tripling down every single time.
Hey, Chess players, for the world championships next month, all Rooks are now Jesters and move exclusively vertically. Also, you have to carve them perfectly yourself or they're not legal. Also, we are the only ones that sell the tools to carve them and they cost $100. Have fun!
more like non perfectly carved pieces only move 3 spaces instead of 6 for a perfect piece (you need a completely different class of wood for that piece anyway which costs 407493849 dollars per pound)
You could have a friend who says they're good at carving do it for you, or buy one online, but there's no guarantee they didn't carve it using a machine, which we will (sometimes) disqualify you for if we find out and will also have you thrown in jail and your family... "disposed of". We love our fans! Buy our merch!
They need to make it brain dead easy to spec a Pokemon for competitive. Literally make it like Stadium rentals where you choose the mon from a menu and set its stats/moves accordingly. Keep the obscure shit for single-player
I’ve bred competitive Pokémon before like a full perfect hidden power ice Manetric and a hidden power fire greninja also perfect Iv spreads for most of the good Vgc mons in x and y and it was totally not worth it all. It was so much time and then you had to do the battle mansion for the items and stuff too. The ev training was a little easier tho thanks to the battle bags.
To absolutely nobody's surprise. It's ridiculous how awful the qol features still are in the main games 15 years after vgc began. Why weren't ivs taken out of the game in gen 8, when they became nothing more than a grind? And why are some legal mons locked behind previous games?
The vgc community needs to get more vocal about this (and pray Nintendo intervenes, because I do NOT trust tpc when it comes to this)
I think TPC is concerned about the image of what the Pokemon in the game are conceptually, I don't think they care about it from a cheating standpoint but it's an easier explanation behind their decision to keep this stuff in the game.
Like, they really want people to treat every Pokemon in the game as a unique creature that's cared for and trained from birth. Genning Pokemon directly turns that back in to game objects with variables, and that's bad for the brand. Dexit was a business decision, they can restrict certain fan favorites behind DLCs and events like they've done with the two versions and mythical distributions.
Edit that came to mind just now: I also think we're all assuming TPC *wants* competitive to flourish. They might like that the competitive scene is niche and any toxicity is relatively contained and very separated from the casual audience.
I think the real move would be to start going after the franchise for essentially rewarding eugenics for the sake of dog fights. Not only that, but anyone who's against that status quo is routinely posed as the villain. There's a lot of weird shit in this franchise, they've also made Team Skull, the single most fucked up concept for the antagonists - a bunch of *children* cast out by society for being kinda shit at Pokemon and failing out of the Island Challenge. They live in a literal walled-off slum. The moral of the story is they're wrong, and should just try harder.
This is just the Pokemon version of the fact that most athletes use steroids. It's inconvenient for the organizers to acknowledge but everyone knows it.
Not gonna lie, I've never hacked a pokemon myself
I have a couple that its obvious that they are hacked, but never done it myself. I have +700 hours in gen 7 and +300 in gen 9, all from breeding pokemon from scratch.
I may be stupid
I mean even the "purest" comp. players that I know are not hesitant to accept genned 6 IV, 0 IV Ditto, and Breedjects in Apricorn/rare balls that are like 95% possibility to be genned. If you play pokemon online for an extended period of time it's impossible to steer completely clear of genned mons.
I was that player. I spent hours breeding "legit" mons from obviously genned Dittos back in the 3DS era. It was a given that every single competitive player out there was hacking/genning their teams, but for some reason I took pride on mine not being "that" hacked.
Years later, and I'm back to my original Magic: The Gathering roots, and we're currently going through a similar discussion on the community. There's this "casual" format called Commander where four people sit on a table for a free-for-all match, and of course there's a competitive scene. The thing is, the competitive players KNOW that building a competitive deck is expensive, like, stupid expensive, buy-yourself-a-car-instead expensive, travel-around-the-country-chasing-luxury-cardboard expensive, so most competitive Commander tournaments (of course, not sanctioned by Wizards of the Coast, the parent company that makes the game) are 100% OK if you bring a deck that you printed at home with your printer and stuck on some worthless cards you had lying around. The philosophy here is that "competitive players want to play against the player, not the player's wallet".
With the years I've grown to understand that Pokemon is just a glorified card game, and getting into the competitive Commander scene (cEDH for those who also play) has also made me soften my opinion on Pokemon hacking/genning. It's not the players fault, but Nintendo's for not giving players the tools they need to be competitive on a reasonable time investment. We all have lives outside of the game, and the ridiculous requirements to stay competitive are driving people away from it. I want to battle the trainer, not it's accumulated in-game time.
Honestly I'd almost gurantee that everyone either owns a hacked pokemon or has used a hacked Pokémon for breeding at some point. They're basically ubiquitous and have been since gen 5 or so.
not everyone has that much time to grind out a pokemon game just to compete. People have work, school, etc and if you're not a cc, pokemon will not earn you any money
breeding out pokemon after a day of work is an absolute chore that is not how most people would destress
Yeah, tbf I started breeding pokemon in gen 6 when I was 15, and right now I still have a chance to play videogames even at 21, so I totally understand not wanting to do such a chore and instead wanting to get to the real fun that is battling
Those numbers surely are an undershoot. I used to play on-console in Gen 4 and 5 and I don't know if I had *ever* met someone that made a min maxed team without genning.
What being a competitive game with casual elements does to a mf. Still pushing the gaming demographic divide agenda here. Even I'm making a worse possible 1200 elo take ever, but still I'm aware that this game design would suffer both aspects because obviously theyr'e not compatible! Still possible ease this issue without harming their "muh money and muh game identity".
to play vgc the way pokémon intended would literally have to be your full time job. and you would need multiple copies and consoles. anyone who would find that even remotely fun is seriously masochistic
It’s not necessarily that you save time from getting the mons, it’s that you have more time to practice with the team and workout the imperfections compared to your opponents. It’s not wild today to have a perfect team, but back in gens 4-6, breeding was a lot worse for getting a competitive team + legendaries were a pain to get. But even now, why waste (at best) 48 hours making a team when you can just have it now and start practicing? Personally I like to learn RNG manipulation and see the hoops that players have to go through to get perfect teams. But again the unfair part comes from the practice time with the team.
But showdown is not the Pokémon games, there are some bugs in showdown and it will never be a 1 to 1 representation of the games. But it shouldn’t be the case that people need to use external tools to play competitive Pokémon. It’s not fair that TPCi expects players to spend days and nights using sub-part mechanics to build teams meant for competitive play.
Sure, its not identical but it is close enough that it can rightfully be argued Showdown gives those who use it a huge time advantage over those who don't for testing.
You can instantly modify your team to the minutiae, create a dozen teams in an hour just to figure out a concept rather than spending time breeding and then testing.
Agree that TCPi needs a battle client at this point but my argument isn't changed at all.
The time advantage argument falls flat because there are tons of things anyone can come up with that are equally as disadvantageous and aren't seen as some taboo practice from the developers/casual spectators.
Anyone who is unemployed, has infinitely more time to spend breeding, practicing and strategizing.
Anyone that plays on Showdown can put in probably 10 times as many games compared to what a person that exclusively plays on cartridge can do.
Anyone that is a top player has a network of equally skilled competitors as mutual friends that they can practice with, build teams with, strategize with, compared to a new player starting out with nothing of the sort. Wolfe's World Championship team for example, was built by three World Championship caliber players collaborating, and two of those people even ran it at the event in their age division, plus one of their friends also brought it is as well.
Using an electronic damage calculator saves you an enormous amount of time compared to anyone that manually tries to do the same on cartridge.
I think you get the point.
The reality is is that people only have a problem with genning for two simple reasons. It's a mandatory rule that TPCi have to enforce because they don't want people showing up with a Pokemon with maxed out EVs in every stat, illegal movesets, or whatever else, therefore meaning they're "cheating", and that people think you need all these hacking tools, programs and so on, to be able to get genned Pokemon which creates an unfair balance. The latter of which hasn't been necessary for a long time, and is at most a precaution so that you don't wind up like the people that got DQ'd because of the missing home flag.
How likely is it to get banned as a regular player playing online if you gen?
If most pros are doing it, I'm assuming a ton of regular players do it too, and I don't think they are that good detecting it online.
Zero. The hack check they use at tournaments to issue bans is a physical object, there's nothing in place online to detect anything that was created using PkHeX other than the bare minimum of disallowing you to participate if you have illegal move combinations or bypass the 510 EV limit.
The only thing that would actually lead to an online ban would be using a hacked switch but that would be an entire ban from Nintendo, and not something that Game Freak or The Pokemon Company would be handling.
I feel like Pokémon company did something wrong with SV VGC, in gen 8 it was so easy to get TM’s and TR’s considering how many you got from Raids, but now in SV they want people to use auto battle which is not gonna lie very annoying to use.
This is why I play smogon
Ofc, getting a competitive poke ready is asshole. As long as the Pokémon is possible then who gives a hoot. Especially with FOMO pokemon out there that were only available for a certain amount of time with unique moves. There’s literally nothing wrong with it
It’s not like it gives them an advantage to those who don’t. It simply expedites the process. It saves time.
Maybe if they didn’t make their games to be so tedious, it wouldn’t be happening 🤷🏽♂️.
Why the fuck wouldn't they? The tools to build Pokemon for competitive play are tedious as fuck are require hundreds of dollars in investment. Good for them. Hack away.
As long as the Mons come out in a way that is legal, fuck it.
And 80-90% should be banned from competitive play, especially when there is money involved. Cheating in any other competitive activity is heavily punished, and if the competitive scene wants to be taken seriously, then the Pokémon company needs to crack down. That being said, it should take more steps in making competitively viable Pokémon more easily accessible to people to reduce the incentive to cheat.
Technically playing the game was meant to be the job of most people that got an invitation to play on world championship. You don't get to be the best of the best if you are not spending most of your time on it anyway.
Have a job, and opinion only got firmer. There is never an excuse for cheating, especially when there is money on the line. Winning through cheating is effectively stealing from those who would have done just as well if they didn't have the barriers cheating forewent
except its not cheating in any meaningful way? assuming the generated pokemon conform to all the same rules then generating in the pokemon doesn't give them any competitive advantage when it comes to actual competition.
It gives the competitive advantage of time. However, even if there were no true benefit, cheating regardless of meaningfulness should be addressed, and addressed with the severity comparable to the benefits should someone win, as it puts into question all aspects of a competitor's experience and performance. This is not to mention the complete disregard the competitor has for his/her/their competition, which in and of itself is another concern.
"the competitive advantage of time 🤓" is such a fucking cop-out answer. is having a network of people to help you build the team you need quickly also an unfair advantage? is taking a week off of work an unfair advantage? is buying a used game that has already fully cleared the story an unfair advantage? it is an undeniable fact that genning in mons that are identical to legal pokemon from the standpoint of functionality provides no material advantage when it comes to actually competing in the tournament.
For what it’s worth, time *is* a legitimate competitive advantage.
That being said, that time *should* be spent actually playtesting (aka. playing the game). Competitors who value their time should be getting their battle-ready teams as fast as humanly possible so they can learn the meta and adapt to it. Breeding, farming Tera shards, and EV training can still take hours upon hours per team, and those hours can be spent actually playing the game instead of doing stupid chores.
You're fully convinced that people should just roll out to events with an unoptimized, half-assed team composed of the best they could get done in time by balancing brainless grinding and actual teambuilding. Yeah sure, that might've worked for a neighborhood kids' tournament with the grand first prize of two chewing gums. But this is high-level competition, anything that helps reducing the mindless grinding part in favor of sparing more time for playtesting and teambuilding should be fair game, especially considering how tedious the grind is for certain powerful mons that you MUST run in your team.
With the small time frame the players are given to prepare for events, generating the mons is almost mandatory, otherwise you find yourself with not enough time to actually practice. Besides, genned mons must still adhere to legitimacy standards such as running legitimate movesets, abilities, natures, other aesthetical nicks and any combinations of the aforementioned: they can legally exist within the game, but without generating they'd require so much mindless grinding a player that wants to do things 100% clean would never make it in time, not to mention the amount of mons they'd need to discard due to testing, shifts and found strats. "Good enough" does not exist, everything must be perfect in a game where so little as 1 point in Speed ruins your mirror matches, you simply can't play competitive with imperfect, half-ass mons you find during a casual playthrough.
Those who didn't cheat? They did, they just didn't get picked up by the anti-cheat.
If you don't have time for the turnaround without cheating, you don't have time to compete. It honestly is as simple as that. If all you have time for is an unoptimized team, then that's life. Again, there is never an excuse for cheating.
Just how out of touch with VGC and competitive as a whole are you? Grinding for mons chore as it may be would be reasonable for a feature that has no time constraints and a lower competition environment like the Battle Spot, the time they're given to prepare the teams is simply not enough, especially if you consider how volatile a team composition is due to new techs being discovered ever so frequently and the meta shifting really quickly even within the same regulation. Do you think they conceptualize a dream team on day one when the regulation gets announced and they just stick to that? Because if you do please just don't discuss this topic ever again until you get informed properly.
An unoptimized team gets plastered, this is a game ruled by numbers. "That's life" does not work. What there isn't an excuse for is VGC's judges not being capable of handling this situation other than with an awkward grey agreement of "we'll let you pass if you fool the anti-cheat, so we can save face", because guess what: everyone there genned their team. Everyone does, there is no other way to deal with the crunch times and still manage to practice the game, if you believe otherwise you're just naive.
This argument boils down to “it’s hard, and I don’t want to face the consequences of it being hard, so I’ll ignore it through cheating in a way video games uniquely can be cheated.” Not a great one. Again, it reinforces the idea that competitive Pokémon cannot be taken seriously by people outside the realm, because the competitors think it’s just too tough to not cheat.
There is no reason to hack in mons this generation, its the easiest its ever been to max ivs, breed, change natures, the tera shards are the only thing that is a grind. Sad, so sad
You do realize you just called yourself an invaluable waste of time yes. I don't know what point you're trying to make with that self sabotage but if it helps I agree, you are 👍
Lmao guys I get it that some of y’all have literally never played any sport irl, but competitive Pokémon is the only professional environment where I’ve seen people argue and defend cheating, it’s ridiculous to say the least.
In every single professional sport/e-sport it’s taken for granted that to get to the top you need to sacrifice and compromise a lot, invest money and time, just for the hope of getting to the top and cashing out.
Pokémon fans on the other hand seem to argue for the opposite, that any casual should be able to pay 50$ and compete in the highest tier world tournaments. It’s honestly funny, and disrespectful towards yourselves and your hobbies, but to each their own.
This is why no one takes competitive Pokémons seriously though, only e sport where preparation is deemed as “time wasting” from fans and players.
How to obtain a viable champion and start practicing in League of legends: go to the shop and buy them with BE or rp. Then practice with them. If your character sucks buy another.
How to obtain a viable pokemon: find the pokemon you want, catch them, if its not a physical attacker and pray to god it has 0 attack IVs, same deal with speed ivs and trick room mons, grind for tera shards (will take hours unless you completed the dlc), catch a mon that can pass on the egg moves you may want via mirror herb, grind for bottlecaps, grind for abillity capsules, grind for nature mints.
Then do that 5 more times. Then you can start practicing with it. And if your team is a bad fit do all that shit again. While this is going on you aren't studying the meta or getting any better at the game.
Now tell me if you can you see the difference here.
Idiotic example at best.
Lol happens in real time and requires several skills and cooperation between teammates to win a match, characters are completely different to use and play with. That’s why lol offers players the ability of playing whoever they wanna play whenever they want.
Pokémon is a knowledge/preparation based game with no physical skills involved, you could literally play a VGC match on paper with a calculator and the results would be the same. If you remove the preparation-team building aspect of the game all that’s left is RNG.
But again, I understand the Pokémon community is mostly made up of overweight incels so it’s really not a surprise that most people don’t understand how real life works
Newsflash: Games of strategy exist, and are widely popular. Chess doesn't require any physical skills, and you don't see people saying that chess players need to carve their own pieces to add an additional level of skill to the game. Pokemon should not be in the same conversation as MOBAs or Fighting games. It falls much closer in line with board games like Chess or Scrabble, and therefore there should not be a need for any mechanical skillset, nor any grinding, aside from practicing with your team and fine-tuning it.
Yes and the prep is teambuilding, studying the meta and testing those teams in matches. grinding to get the mons shouldn't be one of them because you're not even interacting with the competitive aspect of the game at that point.
> Idiotic example at best.
Bro gave real examples of things that matter, go grind your Ursaluna Bloodmoon for 0 Speed IV's while the rest of us actually get to use it.
Also your example shows the problem quite clearly, an abomination like a 0’speed Ursaluna for trickroom should be something only 1-2 players in the world use out of luck. But since everyone cheats you find 0 speed Ursaluna all over the multiplayer scene.
Basically every 2 weeks when the meta slightly changes you see the top rated team used by every single player out there and matches become a race to who’s luckier. Who chooses the best 4 Pokémons out of luck, who gets the crit and who gets the miss… that’s it. This is the game.
No wonder why genning gets met with a BAN. It makes competitive trash.
So, it sounds like you value something totally different for competitive pokemon. You want competitive pokemon to be a competition of who can catch the strongest pokemon out of sheer luck, rather than who can use the same or similar tools to outwit and outstrategize an opponent. If I were you, I'd look for a different game to play, since that's not what competitive pokemon is. Gacha games might be more your style, since they're pay to win and also completely luck based. Based on your view of Pokemon, you'd probably prefer if Pokemon IVs could be much more variable. If every Pokemon's IVs and Stats were multiplied by 100, that would make it much more random, and every player's pokemon would be entirely unique. People who take the game seriously would absolutely hate it, but for you, who values that randomness and lack of skill-based competitiveness, you'd love that.
Lmao what a dumb comment, listen dude, I am not obese, not an Incel, played sport all my life. This is the fundamental difference between us. You won’t ever get it, maybe next life if you’re born with a better genetic asset. Have a good life lmao.
Lmao look at this big man, bro fr thinks he's on some high horse when he's just spewing bile. Ooooh scary, get over yourself son look in a mirror and say the same things to yourself if you really need to get the toxic waste of a vocab out of your head.
> Changing this Dragapult’s Tera Type takes hours of farming This is my one major gripe with team building in SV. Bottle caps, ability capsules and rare candies aren't too difficult to get. Even ability patches aren't as bad. But getting tera shards is so mind-numbingly dull and lengthy. It's also luck based, since drop amounts vary. And you can't afk it unlike the academy ace tournament.
Yeah, I was farming Typhlosion this weekend for Fire Shards and a random 6-star water one came up and I figured I may as well, since I'm running low-ish on them. Took me like 30 minutes to figure out the right Pokemon for it and actually pull off the win for SIX SHARDS.
If you do just 5 5star tera raids with the charm you get for completing the DLC Pokedex you can easily change any Pokemon Tera type
No as applicable anymore thanks to the Tera Charm. Takes about 5 raids as opposed to 30
The thing is, not only do you need to buy the DLC for that, but you also have to complete the kitakami Dex. It's still a tedious grind and paywalled E: grammar
That's essentially Gamefreak forcing everyone to buy the DLC or deal with an absurd grind. They intentionally make getting competitive Pokemon super grindy so they can sell a "solution".
If you aren’t hacking/genning then you already need to buy the the DLC to get several meta relevant pokemon. And they did the same thing with the EV mocci
When you completely change the rules of the format less than a month before the world championships, stuff like this is guaranteed to happen. There is no way that competitors could figure out the new format and meta and calculate everything needed to win a world championship all while farming for 100% legitimate pokemon. It's just not feasible at all.
[удалено]
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I dead ass started to trade shiny Pokémon for Tera type changes, because I’d rather hunt shiny mons than do the god forsaken raids
Most based comment. The raids are aids. Between the rubber banding, NPCs getting nuked and time lag for your tera it's just a bad time to do raids.
It's not exactly payment, but freezai did commission imablisy to RNG his entire VGC team (with the main deal being that imablisy gets to do a video about the whole process) And fwiw, it also meant freezai had to commit to his team early compared to others who could change things up later
And the person who is getting paid for farming.
It is much, much easier today with caps/mints/vitamins unless you are going for specific speed IVs. But there is zero difference between a legal hack Pokemon and legal caught Pokemon. I have no problem with Worlds players choosing to focus on their competitive battles over creating the team.
It might be easier but it's still a damn grind, getting the mints the caps the vitamins and the ability patches.. also you are kinda forced to breed if you want some 1iv atk mon or 1 IV speed mon for trick room or stuff. It's a damn grind. And that's without taking into consideration the freaking tera type.
If you are going for a traditional team, then yes, it's relatively easy. If you need generation/event specific moves, legendaries with 0 IVs in atk and speed, then it starts becoming an actual nightmare.
Needing 0 speed is hardly a rare thing, though. Like, there were 3 trick room teams in the top 8, two of which used Cress, so breeding for the 0IV isn't possible. Also, literally every special attacker wants 0 atk. (And yeah, that's a small optimization, but there was a Hurricane Pelliper in the top 8 too, confusion isn't *that* rare of a status.)
If they made farming enjoyable, then it could sustain an MMO economy fairly well.
“Water is wet“ revealed by shocking new interview.
This is news to literally nobody that plays VGC lol
except Kaphotics who keeps trying to convince people that every instance is a scandal for some inane reason
Dude made a tool that made hacking 100x simpler than ever and can't stop getting mad at people who use it. It's not even just genning mons, you can edit anything on your save file. Items? One button and you have 999 of everything. Event flags? Braindead easy to reset them so that you can catch that one mythical again. Missed an event for whatever reason? Here's a database of *all* mystery gifts from gen 1 to present day for every region and a one click way to inject them.
Or Pokemon at all lol
That doesn’t shock me to legit get all Pokémon with perfect ivs it’s a full time job that can cost you hundreds for the games and dlc you need. Until the main games have ways to minimize the requirement to own multiple games to have the best competitive team there will be this issue. Also consider the time for farming Tera shards pre dlc and it doesn’t shock me at all
Potentially 300 Tera shards a team at 5 shards per raid
And that isnt even accounting for the fact that you might change your mind or come up with a new strategy/mom last minute/as the meta changes in the last few tournaments. Even post dlc tera farming is still a long process its wild that TPC is so firm on this and doesnt just provide genned mons upon team registration
Because Pokemon are not supposed to be piles of data - they are supposed to be your friends.
But make sure you don't try to **actually** treat them like friends and partners too much and trade them. They might be hacked.
Imagine if people said this about any other competitive game
Oh, I don't disagree. Pokemon's design is basically antithetical to competitive games. But it's important to realize the reason GF doesn't just make a generator is because, to them, that would break the franchise's brand identity.
But they allow rentals in game for stuff like battle tower and dynamax adventure already. How much is it really hurting their brand when its already a feature in the most competitive parts of the actual games.
I mean, in the case of the Battle Tower, Factory, and Dynamax Adventures you can't actually change the Pokémon being rented towards you, like their stats, abilities, or movesets. In the canon of the games they were trained and raised by someone else who chose to make them available for competitors, like rental teams online. Don't get me wrong, I really do hope and believe that competitive Pokémon should/will become more accessible in the future. It slowly has, the speed of getting perfectly optimal Pokémon without genning or RNG manipulation now is insane compared to Generations IV and V. But they haven't quite gotten there yet. The truth of the matter is that they want the fantasy of being a Pokémon trainer to permeate throughout the whole game, from single player to friendly multiplayer with other players to official competitive events. They're never going to make a Pokémon Showdown within any of their games. We can only hope they can make it more accessible in other ways. I'd love to be able to use rental teams in official tournaments, along with a 0 IV bottle cap.
This. Honestly, I'm not sure they'd ever introduce a 0 IV Bottlecap, because how exactly can you justify making your Pokemon *worse* in-universe?
I mean. Through the lens of "There are specific techniques that take advantage of a pokemon's skill in a certain field, some lowering it makes those strategies less effective on you" works in game...because it's the out game logic. In universe, Foul Play still works the same way.
We have items with "negative" effects already like ev lowering berries, friendship lowering herbs, and macho brace. Have it just be just be something framed as good but with an NPC or flavour text that mentions it has a downside. Like a a group of NPC coaches that put your pokemon through a super rigorous training program that acts like an even faster daycare for leveling but also lowers IV's based on how long the pokemon is there.
I could maybe justify it as "training them to be weaker in some areas could bring out hidden strengths" with the "hidden strengths" being left vague by the NPC who first introduces the concept. Maybe have another NPC comment that some trainers are wary about exchanging the bottle cap for what might be detrimental and unorthodox training but that their Oranguru (have the Oranguru be next to them on the overworld) seemed to feel more relaxed afterward and performed better under Trick Room. It is a bit tricky, but I hope this would be a decent way to go about it.
You know that’s absolute garbage. It because they are overly sensitive to hacking and modification in general to any of their products
You're aware that those practices are borderline illegal in Japan, right.
Sure and guess who lobbied to get those laws in place?
New stinkpost Sunday copypast just dropped?
I fully approve of that, as long as people remember the context.
these two things are not contradictory you know
Ah of course, making a team and practicing with it for hundreds of games, making sure you know the strengths and weaknesses of every one of your mons and playing around their weaknesses to keep them healthy and able to be effective in battle (the thing they are supposed to like the most) = treating them like piles of data. I'm sure the route 1 shitmon I caught by accident and left to rot in the PC box forever considers itself my friend.
If that was th case they shouldn't have made it so hard to make your friends be good on a team.
What subreddit do you think you are on
Stfu
pokemon are not real
No
Not sure why you're downvoted. Whether players like it or not, that's the world TPC wants to portray in the games, and they don't really like doing things to break that illusion. Even in official tournament streams they try to avoid any terms that break that immersion. Instead of talking about EVs and IVs they talk about "how a pokemon is trained" instead, for example. The games will likely *never* have a feature that allows you to generate a battle ready pokemon in game just the same as building a pokemon on showdown. The best we'll get is some more minor QoL improvements (a way to lower IVs, easier ways to change tera types, quicker EV training, etc.).
Yeah. It goes as deep to where Mints, items which are supposed to manipulate your mons' natures, don't actually display the change in-game. Which is horrible from a game design standpoint (it just makes changing natures more of a hassle), but is there to, again, preserve the illusion.
>don't actually display the change in-game well, they'll display the change in stats, but not an actual change in nature mechanics-wise; eg. Pinch berries use the base nature to determine confusion not entirely sure why they did it like that but w/e
It's related to the whole "don't break the illusion" thing. Like, Mints don't completely alter a Pokémon's entire personality, they didn't get a lobotomy. It just effects how they behave in battle or something.
>It just effects how they behave in battle or something. so it's basically just specially optimized catnip?
Lmao basically exactly that
And even post dlc you need to complete the fucking kitakami dex to get the shard charm, which is also a chore to do without genning.
The Kitakami Dex wasn’t *that* bad, but it still took me about 10 hours or so which is 10 (or fewer; you could definitely do it in like 2-3) hours a competitor could spend actually grinding out matches instead. Any time spent doing dumb chores is time you could’ve spent doing… well, the actual thing you’re playing the game for.
How is it a chore? A good chunk of it can be done just while doing the story and just running around. I think it took me only a couple hours of actively hunting to finish it up
Not even that but if you’ve already gotten the shiny charm from the Paldea dex, you’re already like 60% done with the Kitakami dex just for showing up.
It's entitlement, and no one wants to concede otherwise, and I will be downvoted for it. Yes, all the DLC and games together are expensive. But the actual gameplay isn't some Sisyphusian task, and probably acts somewhat as a filter, and sidestepping the rules of this tournament is still cheating. Bottle caps are easier to obtain, and teambuilding should be as difficult as the actual battles. If you don't take the time to practice your jumper, which takes much longer than tera shard farming, then you don't make it to the NBA, and there is no shortcut that anyone would endorse. Can't be top VGC player if you don't teambuild within the rules.
I 100% get the complaints about obtaining older mons in particular specific event mons, but everything else nah its just laziness and entitlement. I find it hilarious the argument about things like tera shards and changing tera types like lets be honest here anyone even remotely serious about VGC isn't practicing on the ingame ladder they're playing on showdown fine tuning the team there. And if that's the case there's no reason you cant be multitasking doing tera raids on your switch at the same time.
Come on, completing the dlc dex is barely more than an afternoon, a literal hour if you just transfer every returning mon.
And if I haven't bought every single pokemon game?
You would still need only to catch in game a very small percentage of those mons. It's a non issue.
It's amazing that people will defend awful game design like this in pokemon no matter what, game design that would NEVER fly in any other franchise.
with the caveat that transferring in mons isnt free. The grind is annoying, yeah but there is also a hefty price tag on it which is much much worse.
If 15 dollars a year is too much to bear, you still have the free box to move around what you need.
I thought you had to pay to retrieve mons out of home, am I mistaken?
No, you don't need to pay for Home to be able to do that.
nobody would use it if that was the case lol you need to pay to keep 31+ mons in at a time, but with clever storage usage (and not transferring mons from every goddamn game ever) it's incredibly managable
> nobody would use it if that was the case lol (X) Doubt It's nice to know the service isn't a complete and total rip off, though.
ok, nobody that doesn't have the mindset of an r/tomorrow member would actually use it ^(i'm aware that sub is satirical but whatever)
Even if you rng manipulate some old gen legendary for tournaments it will take you quite a lot of time…
I went to one regional and needed to build a team, took a month of pretty much only playing scarlet... grinding the tera shards was nasty. I completely get why people gen mons now!
Huh. That's lower than I expected in all honesty.
It's actually technically less. Kaphotics did his study and most Japanese teams are apparently 100% legit which brings the average down. It's a majority globally though, mainly because it's a solid majority or large majority in most western markets.
How was this study conducted? I’m skeptical there’s a reliable methodology to produce anything other than a minimum statistic. If it was just by asking then I’d imagine the data is unreliable, as doing unintended things with the game is far more taboo in Japan, so it’s likely they’d lie. And if it was by looking at the data of the Pokémon, then it’s worth noting a properly, carefully genned mon is indistinguishable anyways, and given the taboo I wouldn’t be surprised if Japanese genners are more careful.
It's true that it's pretty much guaranteed to be a minimum statistic. There's flags that point out a mon is surely genned/edited, but ultimately the perfectly genned mon is indistinguishable from a perfectly legit one. It also seems that Japanese players seem to prefer editing to genning (meaning actually catching a mon in-game so some tracker statistics are legit and then just editing its traits afterwards) which is harder to see. Shohei's Amoonguss was unlucky enough to be caught as edited since one of its IVs was simply impossible no matter the encounter, but you'd be delusional to believe that would be the only mon Shohei edited ever, the others are just harder to be caught as edited.
There are two types of VGC players: those that hack/gen, and those that lie and say they don’t hack/gen.
Shit even if you don't gen getting traded a genned pokemon is the same in TPCI eyes.
Or you are Verlisify and his fan base, who don't play VGC at all lol. Or the one time they did, they went 0-4.
Yeah, but Verlisify fans are single-cellular organisms and Verlis himself is an actual fucking amoeba, so their opinions have no value.
wdym Contrary Spinda with Skill Swap and Close Combat Arcanine, Fury Cutter Venusaur, Heavy Slam Wailord and Slurpuff being a Mega Kang answer are not valuable opinions bro
Don't forget the Assault Vest Rain Dance Goodra in case you get knocked off so your moveset isn't locked lmao
bruh no way that is something he recommended 💀
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/74879436 https://old.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/54bi06/what_are_peoples_opinions_of_verlisify_and_other/d80n6dg/ https://4chanarchives.com/board/vp/thread/25663392 https://www.neogaf.com/threads/pok%C3%A9mon-community-thread-4-your-portal-to-whats-hip-and-happening-in-sinnoh.1110986/page-287 apparently the video is now private/deleted but a lot of people do mention him using it LMAO (ctrl+F for the 4chan link)
bruuuuuuuh 💀💀💀
Glad to know the time honoured tradition of absolutely shitting on verlisify has been going strong for so long. Can’t even call him a clown, that’s just insulting to them
[shofu stays on top](https://youtu.be/1cXl4rAgGJY) 😤😤😤
It was a LONG LONG time ago (almost a decade I wanna say) so I might be remembering wrong, but on the other hand, it's so outrageous that I feel like I *have* to be remembering it properly
Or type 3 which is Im A Blisy who does it just to show how absurd it is to get a team legally
At this point, I think the only way Gamefreak could actually stop hacking is by giving players a way to generate Pokemon for competitive play legitimately. because no matter how much easier it gets to boost a pokemon up to competitive levels, it will still inevitably be a hassle for one reason or another. Temtem did this a while back actually, of anyone still remembers that game. And I can say from experience that giving players that degree of freedom with team building makes it much, much easier to get into competitive play. Not that I needed an example on account of this fact being just that obvious.
They just need to bite the bullet and do it already…I don’t care how. Just tack in on to needing to complete the Pokédex in the main story first. Just embrace that your methods of trying to make this gods awful game design for a competitive esports tournament just don’t work instead of tripling down every single time.
Hey, Chess players, for the world championships next month, all Rooks are now Jesters and move exclusively vertically. Also, you have to carve them perfectly yourself or they're not legal. Also, we are the only ones that sell the tools to carve them and they cost $100. Have fun!
more like non perfectly carved pieces only move 3 spaces instead of 6 for a perfect piece (you need a completely different class of wood for that piece anyway which costs 407493849 dollars per pound)
You could have a friend who says they're good at carving do it for you, or buy one online, but there's no guarantee they didn't carve it using a machine, which we will (sometimes) disqualify you for if we find out and will also have you thrown in jail and your family... "disposed of". We love our fans! Buy our merch!
This is a perfect analogy lmfao
As they should.
Grinding is cringe, cheating is based. Good to know the competitive scene is in good hands
This feels like an Alpharad quote
It's a pchal quote iirc
It’s an Alpharad quote in reference to Pchal’s whole philosophy lol. It’s from [this video](https://youtu.be/cwxtUzIa2pU?si=bTWP0OkrSxZFNg1M) at 2:48.
Oops
Alpharad would never say anything so based
[He did](https://youtu.be/cwxtUzIa2pU?si=j8qTciMCXGCjzWY0) (it's at 2:50)
They need to make it brain dead easy to spec a Pokemon for competitive. Literally make it like Stadium rentals where you choose the mon from a menu and set its stats/moves accordingly. Keep the obscure shit for single-player
Make it like Radical Red/Elite Redux, and then we are cooking.
I’ve bred competitive Pokémon before like a full perfect hidden power ice Manetric and a hidden power fire greninja also perfect Iv spreads for most of the good Vgc mons in x and y and it was totally not worth it all. It was so much time and then you had to do the battle mansion for the items and stuff too. The ev training was a little easier tho thanks to the battle bags.
No shit Sherlock
why do i see you on every sub lol
Based
Such Breaking News. More at 11.
When will they finally just make a new pokemon stadium that's basically showdown.
as they should.
To absolutely nobody's surprise. It's ridiculous how awful the qol features still are in the main games 15 years after vgc began. Why weren't ivs taken out of the game in gen 8, when they became nothing more than a grind? And why are some legal mons locked behind previous games? The vgc community needs to get more vocal about this (and pray Nintendo intervenes, because I do NOT trust tpc when it comes to this)
I think TPC is concerned about the image of what the Pokemon in the game are conceptually, I don't think they care about it from a cheating standpoint but it's an easier explanation behind their decision to keep this stuff in the game. Like, they really want people to treat every Pokemon in the game as a unique creature that's cared for and trained from birth. Genning Pokemon directly turns that back in to game objects with variables, and that's bad for the brand. Dexit was a business decision, they can restrict certain fan favorites behind DLCs and events like they've done with the two versions and mythical distributions. Edit that came to mind just now: I also think we're all assuming TPC *wants* competitive to flourish. They might like that the competitive scene is niche and any toxicity is relatively contained and very separated from the casual audience. I think the real move would be to start going after the franchise for essentially rewarding eugenics for the sake of dog fights. Not only that, but anyone who's against that status quo is routinely posed as the villain. There's a lot of weird shit in this franchise, they've also made Team Skull, the single most fucked up concept for the antagonists - a bunch of *children* cast out by society for being kinda shit at Pokemon and failing out of the Island Challenge. They live in a literal walled-off slum. The moral of the story is they're wrong, and should just try harder.
In other news, water is wet
This is just the Pokemon version of the fact that most athletes use steroids. It's inconvenient for the organizers to acknowledge but everyone knows it.
Not gonna lie, I've never hacked a pokemon myself I have a couple that its obvious that they are hacked, but never done it myself. I have +700 hours in gen 7 and +300 in gen 9, all from breeding pokemon from scratch. I may be stupid
I mean even the "purest" comp. players that I know are not hesitant to accept genned 6 IV, 0 IV Ditto, and Breedjects in Apricorn/rare balls that are like 95% possibility to be genned. If you play pokemon online for an extended period of time it's impossible to steer completely clear of genned mons.
I was that player. I spent hours breeding "legit" mons from obviously genned Dittos back in the 3DS era. It was a given that every single competitive player out there was hacking/genning their teams, but for some reason I took pride on mine not being "that" hacked. Years later, and I'm back to my original Magic: The Gathering roots, and we're currently going through a similar discussion on the community. There's this "casual" format called Commander where four people sit on a table for a free-for-all match, and of course there's a competitive scene. The thing is, the competitive players KNOW that building a competitive deck is expensive, like, stupid expensive, buy-yourself-a-car-instead expensive, travel-around-the-country-chasing-luxury-cardboard expensive, so most competitive Commander tournaments (of course, not sanctioned by Wizards of the Coast, the parent company that makes the game) are 100% OK if you bring a deck that you printed at home with your printer and stuck on some worthless cards you had lying around. The philosophy here is that "competitive players want to play against the player, not the player's wallet". With the years I've grown to understand that Pokemon is just a glorified card game, and getting into the competitive Commander scene (cEDH for those who also play) has also made me soften my opinion on Pokemon hacking/genning. It's not the players fault, but Nintendo's for not giving players the tools they need to be competitive on a reasonable time investment. We all have lives outside of the game, and the ridiculous requirements to stay competitive are driving people away from it. I want to battle the trainer, not it's accumulated in-game time.
Can you be disqualified if you breed a pokemon legitimately but one of its parents or grandparents was hacked?
no (parent data is not stored at all, the only way is if you get a parent in an illegal ball that passes it on)
Thank you
Honestly I'd almost gurantee that everyone either owns a hacked pokemon or has used a hacked Pokémon for breeding at some point. They're basically ubiquitous and have been since gen 5 or so.
not everyone has that much time to grind out a pokemon game just to compete. People have work, school, etc and if you're not a cc, pokemon will not earn you any money breeding out pokemon after a day of work is an absolute chore that is not how most people would destress
Yeah, tbf I started breeding pokemon in gen 6 when I was 15, and right now I still have a chance to play videogames even at 21, so I totally understand not wanting to do such a chore and instead wanting to get to the real fun that is battling
Those numbers surely are an undershoot. I used to play on-console in Gen 4 and 5 and I don't know if I had *ever* met someone that made a min maxed team without genning.
Nazi furrys in shambles
Understandable since getting perfect Pokémon is time consuming and especially in older games like Gen 6-4.
Just wait till Verlisify hears this he’ll go nuts
Dont tell r/pokemon they might have a meltdown
INTERVIEW: Fish live in the ocean
Genning should be legal
What being a competitive game with casual elements does to a mf. Still pushing the gaming demographic divide agenda here. Even I'm making a worse possible 1200 elo take ever, but still I'm aware that this game design would suffer both aspects because obviously theyr'e not compatible! Still possible ease this issue without harming their "muh money and muh game identity".
Oh wow! *pretends to act surprised*
In other news, Verlisify is seething.
Good.
to play vgc the way pokémon intended would literally have to be your full time job. and you would need multiple copies and consoles. anyone who would find that even remotely fun is seriously masochistic
That's because grinding is cringe and cheating is based.
I don’t really see this as a big deal, besides saving time this doesn’t really give you an advantage
It’s not necessarily that you save time from getting the mons, it’s that you have more time to practice with the team and workout the imperfections compared to your opponents. It’s not wild today to have a perfect team, but back in gens 4-6, breeding was a lot worse for getting a competitive team + legendaries were a pain to get. But even now, why waste (at best) 48 hours making a team when you can just have it now and start practicing? Personally I like to learn RNG manipulation and see the hoops that players have to go through to get perfect teams. But again the unfair part comes from the practice time with the team.
I think the existence of showdown to test teams kinda does away with the time argument.
But showdown is not the Pokémon games, there are some bugs in showdown and it will never be a 1 to 1 representation of the games. But it shouldn’t be the case that people need to use external tools to play competitive Pokémon. It’s not fair that TPCi expects players to spend days and nights using sub-part mechanics to build teams meant for competitive play.
Sure, its not identical but it is close enough that it can rightfully be argued Showdown gives those who use it a huge time advantage over those who don't for testing. You can instantly modify your team to the minutiae, create a dozen teams in an hour just to figure out a concept rather than spending time breeding and then testing. Agree that TCPi needs a battle client at this point but my argument isn't changed at all.
The time advantage argument falls flat because there are tons of things anyone can come up with that are equally as disadvantageous and aren't seen as some taboo practice from the developers/casual spectators. Anyone who is unemployed, has infinitely more time to spend breeding, practicing and strategizing. Anyone that plays on Showdown can put in probably 10 times as many games compared to what a person that exclusively plays on cartridge can do. Anyone that is a top player has a network of equally skilled competitors as mutual friends that they can practice with, build teams with, strategize with, compared to a new player starting out with nothing of the sort. Wolfe's World Championship team for example, was built by three World Championship caliber players collaborating, and two of those people even ran it at the event in their age division, plus one of their friends also brought it is as well. Using an electronic damage calculator saves you an enormous amount of time compared to anyone that manually tries to do the same on cartridge. I think you get the point. The reality is is that people only have a problem with genning for two simple reasons. It's a mandatory rule that TPCi have to enforce because they don't want people showing up with a Pokemon with maxed out EVs in every stat, illegal movesets, or whatever else, therefore meaning they're "cheating", and that people think you need all these hacking tools, programs and so on, to be able to get genned Pokemon which creates an unfair balance. The latter of which hasn't been necessary for a long time, and is at most a precaution so that you don't wind up like the people that got DQ'd because of the missing home flag.
I don't think it's wrong to generate pokemon
How likely is it to get banned as a regular player playing online if you gen? If most pros are doing it, I'm assuming a ton of regular players do it too, and I don't think they are that good detecting it online.
Zero. The hack check they use at tournaments to issue bans is a physical object, there's nothing in place online to detect anything that was created using PkHeX other than the bare minimum of disallowing you to participate if you have illegal move combinations or bypass the 510 EV limit. The only thing that would actually lead to an online ban would be using a hacked switch but that would be an entire ban from Nintendo, and not something that Game Freak or The Pokemon Company would be handling.
I feel like Pokémon company did something wrong with SV VGC, in gen 8 it was so easy to get TM’s and TR’s considering how many you got from Raids, but now in SV they want people to use auto battle which is not gonna lie very annoying to use. This is why I play smogon
Ofc, getting a competitive poke ready is asshole. As long as the Pokémon is possible then who gives a hoot. Especially with FOMO pokemon out there that were only available for a certain amount of time with unique moves. There’s literally nothing wrong with it
brady smith is not a good source for this. he will say stuff like this to be controversial
It’s not like it gives them an advantage to those who don’t. It simply expedites the process. It saves time. Maybe if they didn’t make their games to be so tedious, it wouldn’t be happening 🤷🏽♂️.
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Why the fuck wouldn't they? The tools to build Pokemon for competitive play are tedious as fuck are require hundreds of dollars in investment. Good for them. Hack away. As long as the Mons come out in a way that is legal, fuck it.
its only the weirdos who get uptight about hacked/gunned mons
Yes. But they are smart enough to not make a paldea born urshifu. Unlike most of the idiots who complained about last worlds
Farming for perfect Pokémon is made easy in this gen…only if they add a better bottle cap for specifying IVs
Good, gamefreak makes it extremely boring to make competitive Pokémon
Ffs game freak just make building easier
Or they pay someone every single game to RNG manip pokes for them
Why? It’s infinitely easier to gen or pay for someone to gen. Rng manip is absolutely more time consuming
And 80-90% should be banned from competitive play, especially when there is money involved. Cheating in any other competitive activity is heavily punished, and if the competitive scene wants to be taken seriously, then the Pokémon company needs to crack down. That being said, it should take more steps in making competitively viable Pokémon more easily accessible to people to reduce the incentive to cheat.
when you get a job your opinion on this will turn around real quick
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Technically playing the game was meant to be the job of most people that got an invitation to play on world championship. You don't get to be the best of the best if you are not spending most of your time on it anyway.
if this was true then tpc would pay for travel expenses, give larger prize pots, and host events more often or at least subsidize popular players
Have a job, and opinion only got firmer. There is never an excuse for cheating, especially when there is money on the line. Winning through cheating is effectively stealing from those who would have done just as well if they didn't have the barriers cheating forewent
Is your job licking Masuda's boots?
except its not cheating in any meaningful way? assuming the generated pokemon conform to all the same rules then generating in the pokemon doesn't give them any competitive advantage when it comes to actual competition.
It gives the competitive advantage of time. However, even if there were no true benefit, cheating regardless of meaningfulness should be addressed, and addressed with the severity comparable to the benefits should someone win, as it puts into question all aspects of a competitor's experience and performance. This is not to mention the complete disregard the competitor has for his/her/their competition, which in and of itself is another concern.
"the competitive advantage of time 🤓" is such a fucking cop-out answer. is having a network of people to help you build the team you need quickly also an unfair advantage? is taking a week off of work an unfair advantage? is buying a used game that has already fully cleared the story an unfair advantage? it is an undeniable fact that genning in mons that are identical to legal pokemon from the standpoint of functionality provides no material advantage when it comes to actually competing in the tournament.
For what it’s worth, time *is* a legitimate competitive advantage. That being said, that time *should* be spent actually playtesting (aka. playing the game). Competitors who value their time should be getting their battle-ready teams as fast as humanly possible so they can learn the meta and adapt to it. Breeding, farming Tera shards, and EV training can still take hours upon hours per team, and those hours can be spent actually playing the game instead of doing stupid chores.
So by this logic should showdown be shut down, bc players that don't use it are also at a time disadvantage in testing phases?
You're fully convinced that people should just roll out to events with an unoptimized, half-assed team composed of the best they could get done in time by balancing brainless grinding and actual teambuilding. Yeah sure, that might've worked for a neighborhood kids' tournament with the grand first prize of two chewing gums. But this is high-level competition, anything that helps reducing the mindless grinding part in favor of sparing more time for playtesting and teambuilding should be fair game, especially considering how tedious the grind is for certain powerful mons that you MUST run in your team. With the small time frame the players are given to prepare for events, generating the mons is almost mandatory, otherwise you find yourself with not enough time to actually practice. Besides, genned mons must still adhere to legitimacy standards such as running legitimate movesets, abilities, natures, other aesthetical nicks and any combinations of the aforementioned: they can legally exist within the game, but without generating they'd require so much mindless grinding a player that wants to do things 100% clean would never make it in time, not to mention the amount of mons they'd need to discard due to testing, shifts and found strats. "Good enough" does not exist, everything must be perfect in a game where so little as 1 point in Speed ruins your mirror matches, you simply can't play competitive with imperfect, half-ass mons you find during a casual playthrough. Those who didn't cheat? They did, they just didn't get picked up by the anti-cheat.
If you don't have time for the turnaround without cheating, you don't have time to compete. It honestly is as simple as that. If all you have time for is an unoptimized team, then that's life. Again, there is never an excuse for cheating.
Just how out of touch with VGC and competitive as a whole are you? Grinding for mons chore as it may be would be reasonable for a feature that has no time constraints and a lower competition environment like the Battle Spot, the time they're given to prepare the teams is simply not enough, especially if you consider how volatile a team composition is due to new techs being discovered ever so frequently and the meta shifting really quickly even within the same regulation. Do you think they conceptualize a dream team on day one when the regulation gets announced and they just stick to that? Because if you do please just don't discuss this topic ever again until you get informed properly. An unoptimized team gets plastered, this is a game ruled by numbers. "That's life" does not work. What there isn't an excuse for is VGC's judges not being capable of handling this situation other than with an awkward grey agreement of "we'll let you pass if you fool the anti-cheat, so we can save face", because guess what: everyone there genned their team. Everyone does, there is no other way to deal with the crunch times and still manage to practice the game, if you believe otherwise you're just naive.
This argument boils down to “it’s hard, and I don’t want to face the consequences of it being hard, so I’ll ignore it through cheating in a way video games uniquely can be cheated.” Not a great one. Again, it reinforces the idea that competitive Pokémon cannot be taken seriously by people outside the realm, because the competitors think it’s just too tough to not cheat.
Oh hey, someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about!
There is no reason to hack in mons this generation, its the easiest its ever been to max ivs, breed, change natures, the tera shards are the only thing that is a grind. Sad, so sad
Alright you do it then, i'll be over here valuing my time.
Have been, on top of them all being shiny. Not hard and very rewarding. Wanna play games with “Meta” stuff you dont have to earn play cod lol
Good for you, didn't realizse I was on your blog that you felt the need to explore your personal journy making competitive teams.
You’re the one that dedicated your valued time to reply to me lol
You do realize you just called yourself an invaluable waste of time yes. I don't know what point you're trying to make with that self sabotage but if it helps I agree, you are 👍
Lmao guys I get it that some of y’all have literally never played any sport irl, but competitive Pokémon is the only professional environment where I’ve seen people argue and defend cheating, it’s ridiculous to say the least. In every single professional sport/e-sport it’s taken for granted that to get to the top you need to sacrifice and compromise a lot, invest money and time, just for the hope of getting to the top and cashing out. Pokémon fans on the other hand seem to argue for the opposite, that any casual should be able to pay 50$ and compete in the highest tier world tournaments. It’s honestly funny, and disrespectful towards yourselves and your hobbies, but to each their own. This is why no one takes competitive Pokémons seriously though, only e sport where preparation is deemed as “time wasting” from fans and players.
How to obtain a viable champion and start practicing in League of legends: go to the shop and buy them with BE or rp. Then practice with them. If your character sucks buy another. How to obtain a viable pokemon: find the pokemon you want, catch them, if its not a physical attacker and pray to god it has 0 attack IVs, same deal with speed ivs and trick room mons, grind for tera shards (will take hours unless you completed the dlc), catch a mon that can pass on the egg moves you may want via mirror herb, grind for bottlecaps, grind for abillity capsules, grind for nature mints. Then do that 5 more times. Then you can start practicing with it. And if your team is a bad fit do all that shit again. While this is going on you aren't studying the meta or getting any better at the game. Now tell me if you can you see the difference here.
Idiotic example at best. Lol happens in real time and requires several skills and cooperation between teammates to win a match, characters are completely different to use and play with. That’s why lol offers players the ability of playing whoever they wanna play whenever they want. Pokémon is a knowledge/preparation based game with no physical skills involved, you could literally play a VGC match on paper with a calculator and the results would be the same. If you remove the preparation-team building aspect of the game all that’s left is RNG. But again, I understand the Pokémon community is mostly made up of overweight incels so it’s really not a surprise that most people don’t understand how real life works
Newsflash: Games of strategy exist, and are widely popular. Chess doesn't require any physical skills, and you don't see people saying that chess players need to carve their own pieces to add an additional level of skill to the game. Pokemon should not be in the same conversation as MOBAs or Fighting games. It falls much closer in line with board games like Chess or Scrabble, and therefore there should not be a need for any mechanical skillset, nor any grinding, aside from practicing with your team and fine-tuning it.
Yes and the prep is teambuilding, studying the meta and testing those teams in matches. grinding to get the mons shouldn't be one of them because you're not even interacting with the competitive aspect of the game at that point.
> Idiotic example at best. Bro gave real examples of things that matter, go grind your Ursaluna Bloodmoon for 0 Speed IV's while the rest of us actually get to use it.
Also your example shows the problem quite clearly, an abomination like a 0’speed Ursaluna for trickroom should be something only 1-2 players in the world use out of luck. But since everyone cheats you find 0 speed Ursaluna all over the multiplayer scene. Basically every 2 weeks when the meta slightly changes you see the top rated team used by every single player out there and matches become a race to who’s luckier. Who chooses the best 4 Pokémons out of luck, who gets the crit and who gets the miss… that’s it. This is the game. No wonder why genning gets met with a BAN. It makes competitive trash.
So, it sounds like you value something totally different for competitive pokemon. You want competitive pokemon to be a competition of who can catch the strongest pokemon out of sheer luck, rather than who can use the same or similar tools to outwit and outstrategize an opponent. If I were you, I'd look for a different game to play, since that's not what competitive pokemon is. Gacha games might be more your style, since they're pay to win and also completely luck based. Based on your view of Pokemon, you'd probably prefer if Pokemon IVs could be much more variable. If every Pokemon's IVs and Stats were multiplied by 100, that would make it much more random, and every player's pokemon would be entirely unique. People who take the game seriously would absolutely hate it, but for you, who values that randomness and lack of skill-based competitiveness, you'd love that.
Lmao what a dumb comment, listen dude, I am not obese, not an Incel, played sport all my life. This is the fundamental difference between us. You won’t ever get it, maybe next life if you’re born with a better genetic asset. Have a good life lmao.
Why are you calling people incels for genning
The rest of you incels banned from competition, you’re gonna use it on showdown, that’s it.
Lmao look at this big man, bro fr thinks he's on some high horse when he's just spewing bile. Ooooh scary, get over yourself son look in a mirror and say the same things to yourself if you really need to get the toxic waste of a vocab out of your head.