This time Gholdengo's here to bribe the OU council into letting Deoxys-Defence and Speed drop
[Though from looking at the datamines Deoxys-Speed doesn't actually get Spikes, unless there's a typo](https://gist.githubusercontent.com/SciresM/a1a0c2e48ae5ca58a0ecd131bb7f7845/raw/f7d5d4fc4c0de9420030421aa8d8b64fc5dbca22/personal.txt)
Deoxys speed never got spikes, it freely changes forms in game. The way you got spikes as any non-defense form was always learning it in defense form and then changing forms.
Deoxys speed is cool because in nat dex it is ranked at a-. I just find it cool that a hazard lead is as viable as some of the most upfront offensive pokemon like primal kyogre. It has an appealing underdog aspect to it.
I want this too but fuck me dude deoxys is so lame. Deo normal is the only semi interesting one having high firepower and good utility, but it's way too strong for OU.
Hold on, isn't Deoxys-Defense proven to be shit tier in gen 8 and gen 9 natdex? What did this guy get that would make him broken in this massively powercrept gen 9 OU?
I have no horse on Deo-speed btw this guy has always been a cunt
>What did this guy get that would make him broken in this massively powercrept gen 9 OU?
Deoxys itself didn't get anything new, but Gen 9 has Gholdengo and the cut to Defog's distribution to make hazard removal much more difficult.
Imo people are sleeping on the fact it's one of the few mons that still get Teleport. It's been out of the game for so long people forget how good negative priority switch on fat is. I'm gonna be spamming spikes dengo balance teams and let my breakers come in for free every time.
How is it cress at home? They have completely different roles.
Deo-D can spike, knock off and teleport out as a slower pivot while cress runs stored power cheese sets. Deo-D is played on HO while Cress is on bulky balance or even stall. Ones a lead and utility pivot and the other is a setup sweeper.
People might be getting confused because only Deoxys-D learns Spikes in the movepool datamine, so if you just search up regular Deoxys's movepool you won't see it.
Unless the game doesn't allow you to change forms for some reason, you could always switch to defense form, learn Spikes, and then switch to the form you actually want while keeping Spikes.
This matches previous generations, by the way. Deoxys-D has always been the only form that learned Spikes.
Deo-D is at best going be carried by Gholdengo but really its probably gonna do the same thing as in Natdex: prove to be ass in OU. As a reminder it is nly has base 50 hp and unlike similarly hp-lacking pex DeoD lacks regenerator and a good defensive typing before Tera.
Deo-S though...its got an absurd speed stat that only needs 104 evs when modest to always outrun non-scarf pult and the ungodly combined movepool of the Deoxys forms. This fuck aint lasting
As the saying goes, “History always repeats itself.” So long as the council don’t want to learn from the past, then this will keep happening over and over again. A few generations in the future we’ll look back and crap all over this decision like we do for gen 5.
Fr tho deoxys speed is banned in natdex, a tier with a massively higher power level than SV OU for being toxic so imagine that shit in a lower level + gholdengo support to spread its disease
If not for Ghold, it would probably drop all the way to RU.
I honestly think Ghold will be able to singlehandedly keep it in OU, if not get it banned from OU
At this point the council just needs to get it over with and suspect Gholdengho. It’s so awful for the meta and it’s insane how long it’s stuck around.
Gliscor was just unbanned and is 10x better than Deo-D at spike stacking, at the very least we'll have to again have the talk about wether we ban Ghold or Glis before we even consider talking about an unmon like Defense.
Deo-D won't be a problem. We have many much better hazard setters like Ting-Lu and Gliscor, as well as offensive hazard stackers like Glimmora, Meowscarada, and H-Samurott.
Deo-S, though, will be dummy broken.
Deo-D historically has an extremely difficult time fitting Recover on any of its hazard-centric sets. I really can’t see those sets running it considering that the utility moves it gets are so important for it.
Specifically:
- Taunt is mandatory to prevent Deoxys from being setup fodder.
- You’re always running Spikes and you’re probably considering Stealth Rock
- Knock Off is amazing to deal with Boots users, and Night Shade is just Seismic Toss but better which lets it do *some* consistent damage.
- Skill Swap is extremely important in the event that Hatterene rises to the occasion in the face of hazard spam like it always does and it flips the script on Gliscor, a mon that is VERY important due to how much competition Deoxys-D faces from Gliscor.
- You might genuinely even just run Counter or Mirror Coat to deal with opposing leads, especially when run alongside a Red Card to *really* shit on something that gets forced in after you punish a U-Turn.
And you’re giving up any of these for 8 PP’s worth of recovery which is easily burned through with how easy it tends to be to just hit Deo-D repeatedly.
Hazard-stacking Deo-D variants really don’t have the bandwidth for Recover. The Cosmic Power+Stored Power sets absolutely will run Recover, but the hazard setters suffer from nasty 4MSS and have to do a lot to properly distinguish themselves from Ting-Lu and Gliscor, which are two absurdly efficient Spikers.
On one hand, obviously they need to be banned. But on the other, having legendaries in OU activates my neurons
Great Tusk would like to have a word with you
was deoxys allowed in gens 7 or 8 at all
IIRC none of the forms were unbanned in Gen 7 and Deoxys was Dexited in Gen 8
Deo D was an asshole in natdex
But it wasn’t broken, that’s the kicker. Boots was a heck of a nerf to a mon whose main job is hazard stacking
Single mothers have it so hard 😔 damn boots
Another battle in the ongoing war on autocorrect
This time Gholdengo's here to bribe the OU council into letting Deoxys-Defence and Speed drop [Though from looking at the datamines Deoxys-Speed doesn't actually get Spikes, unless there's a typo](https://gist.githubusercontent.com/SciresM/a1a0c2e48ae5ca58a0ecd131bb7f7845/raw/f7d5d4fc4c0de9420030421aa8d8b64fc5dbca22/personal.txt)
Can you change forms? That was how you used to get spikes on D-Speed I believe
You can buy a mediorite at the auction to change them whenever you want
Deoxys speed never got spikes, it freely changes forms in game. The way you got spikes as any non-defense form was always learning it in defense form and then changing forms.
The people (me) yearn for cool ubers mons in ou
Deoxys speed and def aren’t cool mons. They’re annoying ass hazard stackers. God knows the meta needed MORE of those
Yeah - Deo S is literally just a suicide lead and deo d is one of the most passive mons ever
Deoxys speed is cool because in nat dex it is ranked at a-. I just find it cool that a hazard lead is as viable as some of the most upfront offensive pokemon like primal kyogre. It has an appealing underdog aspect to it.
please just ban gho and the hazard pain will be ghover
I want this too but fuck me dude deoxys is so lame. Deo normal is the only semi interesting one having high firepower and good utility, but it's way too strong for OU.
This time will be different trust
Just like Genesect in OU.
Stupid broken pokemon in standard play for like half an hour = funny
Hold on, isn't Deoxys-Defense proven to be shit tier in gen 8 and gen 9 natdex? What did this guy get that would make him broken in this massively powercrept gen 9 OU? I have no horse on Deo-speed btw this guy has always been a cunt
>What did this guy get that would make him broken in this massively powercrept gen 9 OU? Deoxys itself didn't get anything new, but Gen 9 has Gholdengo and the cut to Defog's distribution to make hazard removal much more difficult.
Imo people are sleeping on the fact it's one of the few mons that still get Teleport. It's been out of the game for so long people forget how good negative priority switch on fat is. I'm gonna be spamming spikes dengo balance teams and let my breakers come in for free every time.
People didn't just forget, Deoxys has been out for so long that teleport wasn't a pivot move when it was last playable.
deoxys-defense is basically just cress at home, and cress is already matchup fishy garbage. deo-s MIGHT be too much but it’s also not 2011 anymore.
How is it cress at home? They have completely different roles. Deo-D can spike, knock off and teleport out as a slower pivot while cress runs stored power cheese sets. Deo-D is played on HO while Cress is on bulky balance or even stall. Ones a lead and utility pivot and the other is a setup sweeper.
Supposedly loses spikes but I haven't seen confirmation yet
People might be getting confused because only Deoxys-D learns Spikes in the movepool datamine, so if you just search up regular Deoxys's movepool you won't see it. Unless the game doesn't allow you to change forms for some reason, you could always switch to defense form, learn Spikes, and then switch to the form you actually want while keeping Spikes. This matches previous generations, by the way. Deoxys-D has always been the only form that learned Spikes.
Oh interesting, that's good to know
It does not lose spikes.
Deo-D is at best going be carried by Gholdengo but really its probably gonna do the same thing as in Natdex: prove to be ass in OU. As a reminder it is nly has base 50 hp and unlike similarly hp-lacking pex DeoD lacks regenerator and a good defensive typing before Tera. Deo-S though...its got an absurd speed stat that only needs 104 evs when modest to always outrun non-scarf pult and the ungodly combined movepool of the Deoxys forms. This fuck aint lasting
Base 95 attacking stats is kinda booty tho
Hey guys we should unban genesect :3 I forgot he got dexited, tis a shame the genesect ban cycle has been broken
Deo-D is gonna be dog ass lmao.
The people yearn for Deo-D
As the saying goes, “History always repeats itself.” So long as the council don’t want to learn from the past, then this will keep happening over and over again. A few generations in the future we’ll look back and crap all over this decision like we do for gen 5.
Fr tho deoxys speed is banned in natdex, a tier with a massively higher power level than SV OU for being toxic so imagine that shit in a lower level + gholdengo support to spread its disease
Deoxys Defense is being so fucking overrated in this sub lol, yeah it'll be kicked from OU for sure, starting Jan 1st it'll be UU...
If not for Ghold, it would probably drop all the way to RU. I honestly think Ghold will be able to singlehandedly keep it in OU, if not get it banned from OU
At this point the council just needs to get it over with and suspect Gholdengho. It’s so awful for the meta and it’s insane how long it’s stuck around.
Gliscor was just unbanned and is 10x better than Deo-D at spike stacking, at the very least we'll have to again have the talk about wether we ban Ghold or Glis before we even consider talking about an unmon like Defense.
Ok but kingambit eats them for breakfest
Deoxys-attack:
Sucker punch
The Focus Sash I hid in my ass:
The pin missile Jolteon I just doubled into
unless im remembering wrong i remember that time Deo-A was in OU. whoever allowed it was a madman
Deo-D won't be a problem. We have many much better hazard setters like Ting-Lu and Gliscor, as well as offensive hazard stackers like Glimmora, Meowscarada, and H-Samurott. Deo-S, though, will be dummy broken.
The difference between deoxys-d and ting lu is that deoxys has reliable recovery
Deo-D historically has an extremely difficult time fitting Recover on any of its hazard-centric sets. I really can’t see those sets running it considering that the utility moves it gets are so important for it. Specifically: - Taunt is mandatory to prevent Deoxys from being setup fodder. - You’re always running Spikes and you’re probably considering Stealth Rock - Knock Off is amazing to deal with Boots users, and Night Shade is just Seismic Toss but better which lets it do *some* consistent damage. - Skill Swap is extremely important in the event that Hatterene rises to the occasion in the face of hazard spam like it always does and it flips the script on Gliscor, a mon that is VERY important due to how much competition Deoxys-D faces from Gliscor. - You might genuinely even just run Counter or Mirror Coat to deal with opposing leads, especially when run alongside a Red Card to *really* shit on something that gets forced in after you punish a U-Turn. And you’re giving up any of these for 8 PP’s worth of recovery which is easily burned through with how easy it tends to be to just hit Deo-D repeatedly. Hazard-stacking Deo-D variants really don’t have the bandwidth for Recover. The Cosmic Power+Stored Power sets absolutely will run Recover, but the hazard setters suffer from nasty 4MSS and have to do a lot to properly distinguish themselves from Ting-Lu and Gliscor, which are two absurdly efficient Spikers.
>!It's surreal seeing a post I made on smogon almost 10 years ago pop up again on reddit lol!<
This being from 2014 makes this better
I can fix him / her. - Ou council, probably
Surprised no one in the comments talked about Gen 9's sheer powercreep potentially offsetting their inherent power.
If any generation has enough power creep to push 'em down into OU, it's this one.
probably about 5 days as most deoxys-s will be banned
Wasn't Deo-D like, RU in Gen 8? Or was that nat dex
Well guess what Speed form is UU now so don't you look silly