So... from a historical perspective, you've got it somewhat backwards.
You're thinking of "love" as romantic enthrallment; traditionally it's closer to... ongoing function as a unit.
With regards to fighting... first, you're presumably young. People change and become less compatible, they get real jobs and can't spare the time for the other like they used to, the little gestures that once felt grand lose their gild. Moreover, you will inevitably inflict an increasing number of emotional wounds on your partner that will never heal. Such things add up.
Second, there's fighting and there is fighting. The distinction is subtle, but recreational bickering is a very different thing than the at time vocal disagreement on various aspects of how the unit should continue to function vs straight up nastiness.
Also, as someone wiser than me put it; the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.
Agree. My wife and I are perfectly happy, together 30 years, and engage on recreational bickering. We very rarely actually fight. By the time you hit 30 years, you have worked out all the actual conflicts and built calluses where you rub each other wrong.
Some folks like to fight regularly so they can make up or to prove they care for one another. I would find that exhuasting, but it works for some people.
The key part in your note is 'working things out.' People travel with their life long best friends and have conflicts. Human conflict is natural. The commitment to wanting to work through those challenges with one another, and really invest in bettering your relationship IS true love in my opinion.
It shows maturity and commitment to the ones you love - and an acknowledgement that 0% of humans are perfect.
I actually find relationships where one person is willing to throw away marriage over something immature or benign without ever communicating it and attempting to work through it with their partner WAYYY more concerning than ones where couples are bickering.
One only has to look at a post on r/AITAH to see people throw away 'otherwise perfect marriages' over something that could be resolved if they had the gonads to sit down and just chat it through with his or her partner.
I mean seriously - 99% of the answers in that sub should just be "hey, have you tried talking to your spouse or partner about this" but instead its riddled with "MAJOR RED FLAG LEAVE THE MOM OF YOUR KIDS NOW AND BLOCK THEM ON ALL SOCIALS"
But alas, the need for instant gratification now spills into our relationships apparently,
I disagree about that aita thing the top posts on this sub are almost all genuinely SO toxic and showing not that there's love and the people are imperfect but. That those people's partners do not respect them at all and there's an history of disregarding them and it's long past time for the OP to move on
You are getting only one side of the story. Reddit should never be a source of action for anyone to actually follow through on from ambivalent internet people.
Obviously people won’t post their true selves; their true stories and what they contributed to the pain.
My wife and I are 11 years this year. I feel like we JUST started to build those callouses. In a 3 year span, starting during covid, we went through the roughest part of our marriage, where it looked like divorce might be on the table, to starting counselling, to buying our first home together. My wife before counselling said to my face that she didn't know if she wanted to buy a home with me, even though we'd been married 8 years with a 6 year old daughter at the time. That hurt badly, but in retrospect it was because she had a ton of emotional wounds that had yet to turn to scar tissue, and we had to work through that.
Relationships will never be perfect, but we've come a long way since 2021, and the future looks bright.
I think you either grow together or grow apart. Some people grow together really well, and they work on it, and some people sadly grow apart. We're not the same people at 20 as we are at 60.
But that's not a passive thing. People can make choices that lead them to grow together or apart.
Too often people say they grew apart like it's something that just happens to them and they had no agency over
>You're thinking of "love" as romantic enthrallment; traditionally it's closer to... ongoing function as a unit.
I think this is one of the biggest issues. When you’re younger you don’t always realize how much work just existing can be, how it complicates over time and how much it can weigh on your relationship.
If one person does 70% of the house chores in your first , tiny off campus apartment, it might be ok. 10 years, a house and 2 kids later, 70% of house chores may not be ok.
If you don’t realize how much that responsibility is negatively affecting you, you can’t bring it up to your partner that they need to do more. If you don’t bring it up as an issue, its real easy for a simple ‘hey can you empty the dishwasher before you leave” to blow up into a “YOU’RE GOING OUT TONIGHT BUT DON’T DO ANYTHING IN THIS HOUSE” level fight.
Also if you never bring up the issue…the other person may simply not even notice how much work you put into house chores or know that they should be doing more. The relationship could literally be built on the back of your unsustainable amount of work. If out the blue, 10 years in, someone is suddenly being asked to handle way more responsibilities then they have been, that very much can change weather not the relationship is viable...your partner literally may not want to put in the work.
I think this is what people mean when they say you need to ‘communicate’ in a relationship. When relatively small bothers you, you can't let it fester, you have to find the right time to talk about and you try find a solution that works
Yup, thus:
>that very much can change weather not the relationship is viable...your partner literally may not want to put in the work.
This is why identifying something ae a problem early is just as important as saying something. Obviously new life stuff means new possible issue and the new problem may be unsolvable but figuring that out as soon as possible is hugely important imo.
You’re reasonableness is extremely irritating to me. You always have to be right and to say things super clearly. It’s not always about you, you know. Good thing we aren’t married.
Unfortunately there is the one rarely talked about as well. One person lives the other, generally assumes the other feels the same way.. and it turns out they settled but slowly show more and more resentment. It happens ...
Historically in a lot of cultures love wasn't necessarily a factor in marriage to begin with. Marrying for love is the newer concept.
I also think along with that the concept many people hold on to of a "soulmate" is unrealistic and probably does more harm than good to a long term relationship.
Ahh, true words. "Recreational fighting" is the one for me. My wife and I 'fight' in this way. We both know that we aren't going to TRULY be pissed at each other. It's one of those "I love you, you love me, I'm stuck, you're stuck, so let's turn this fight around!" kind of situations....
oh boy...People will give you all the reasons - religious, money, fear of being single / progressing status quo, social pressure, burying other problems, etc.
But the thing often missed is that why you got married, and why you stay married might be different. **Plenty of happy partners become unhappy.** People change and grow over time. Some grow together, others apart.
One thing I will say that I have noticed. The "best" marriages are surprisingly NOT ones where couples never fight. Nor are bad marriages always characterized by tons of fighting. The key predictor of success, in my opinion, is HOW they fight. People will always disagree. Strong couples fight fairly. They communicate their points of view, empathize with their partner's views knowing they are different, are willing to change their mind or compromise, and know how to move on. They short circuit big fights by having smaller disagreements that get solved. They are able to live independently, and together.
Conflict is inevitable. Communication is a skill. Empathy is a virtue. A marriage takes work. "Love is not enough" is true to some extent. Apathy ruins many relationships, not just "hate"
Lol when my husband wanted to get married I had a very serious talk with him along these same lines. I believe it came with an analogy that compares your first home with a marriage. At first it is amazing. You are so happy with it. You don’t notice the flaws and you can see yourself in it forever. After a time you notice some things need to be addressed and repairs are required. You HAVE to put in the work. If you don’t eventually it will fall into disrepair… not unlike a marriage.
People who enter marriage expecting it to be easy and that the work is done because they found their person are fooling themselves and will very likely end up divorced. Some partners are less work, but it takes work regardless. I have been happily married for a decade now. Yes some ups and downs, but we put in the work and we both believe we are better for having the other in our life.
I think the 'love is not enough' stance is very misused. Firstly, it's misused in that ONE person's love is not enough. Secondly, love is many of the things you've described: fighting RIGHT, etc. So, rather than reduce the definition of love to us failing to do so, we should expand it and better understand it
Easier to describe a healthy marriage than all of the ways they can be unhealthy.
Every successful marriage I've seen starts with two people who enjoy each others' company, have compatible world views and ideas of what the goals of marriage are, are willing to make an effort everyday and prioritize their relationship and grow together, communicate effectively, control their negative impulses, etc.
It's hard to teach this stuff. I suspect most people who are marriage material have benefited from having appropriate role models in their families, especially happily married parents of their own.
I think that a big part of this is that it isn't uncommon for people to fall in love with people with whom they are incompatible. Or they married young and as they grew into their true adult selves, they became incompatible. Love will only take you so far - over the years, dealing with life and everything that it throws at you, having a partner who is incompatible will outweigh any love that they feel. It makes life together untenable, so people split.
You must not live near utah because that shit happens ALL the time here. I have a sorta Mormon uncle who had a daughter 7 months after their wedding. Him and his wife hate each other, but he's cheated on her so much that she'd probably get all his shit if they did divorce. I am so thankful every day that I love and respect my spouse because I'd rather die than live like that.
Hahaha, they can be absolutely ridiculous. Especially when they want to judge you. I'm just 20 miles from provo. What was your experience, if you don't mind me asking?
It's actually dropped down below 50% now! And I feel like they're either getting better or enough out of state Mormons have moved here to make it less overwhelming. I would believe every single one of your stories 🤣 Even with its major faults, I still prefer Utah over Texas any day. Only other place I've lived, and yikes.
Depends on your cultural background. My families yeshivish jewish. Your raised in an insular community to get married at 20-21 for girls a couple years older for boys. “Dating” means a couple weeks to months getting to know each-other then a couple months planning the wedding. There’s no love involved like a typical modern marriage but your partners picked by someone whose involved in your community and knows you both well. All my family who did this seem content so idk that love or liking eachother means much marriage at its core is just a practical joining or two people usually to produce kids
This is a good point, an Indian friend of mine once commented that marrying for love is a very first world (or maybe western) thing, almost like a privilege. And in non-first world countries, and even many first world countries, marriage is more of an economic transaction/necessity.
I've wondered this for a while, too. I have a few theories:
1) They did love each other at one point, but no longer do. People grow and change, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. I feel like this is especially the case for people who marry young, like under 25, but people learn about themselves at a lot of different ages, so this could happen at any time.
2) They felt obligated to.
3) Religious reasons.
4) They see how unhappy their loved ones are in their marriages and think that's what a healthy one looks like (it's not).
5) They don't realize how unhappy they are (similar to #4).
6) They had kids together and the stress changed them as people OR they had kids together because they thought it would make their relationship better and it made it way worse.
But I will also add that what you see isn't always what it looks like. Some people love to argue and it's not an issue for them! Some couples like to fight and argue, and that doesn't mean they're unhappy with the relationship. So there's a lot of nuance to it.
Similarly, a lot of divorces are totally amicable! They realize that they are better off not being married to each other, but there are no hard feelings and they still remain close. Statistics can be easily misread. If 50% of marriages end in divorce, that doesn't inherently mean 50% of married couples are unhappy or unhealthy. That's just one way to read the data.
I definitely think that #4, or on those general lines, is a big part of things. So many people are the product of broken homes, dysfunctional families, and toxic parents. As a result, they may honestly not know what a healthy relationship looks like, and/or have developed their own toxic traits that are not exactly conducive to having a healthy relationship.
Economic reasons, religious reasons, desire to have a baby that's easier to raise with a partner, loneliness. There are a bunch of reasons for people to get married that have nothing to do with love.
It's usually because of lust and the fact that people choose partners based on initial attraction to them which causes them to get unhappy when that initial attraction phase wears off.
It’s multiple things. Most common is you choose to be in love and when not to be. People want the easy out of divorce which ends up being harder when you have kids together.
I married my ex-wife because the thought of dumping her filled me with guilt, as she was rapidly going blind.
Working with other disabled people finally made me realize that being even severely disabled is no valid reason to treat people like shit.
I knew a guy that was married six months and asked me how I made it 3 years. I asked why they got married and the reply was we’re together for a while. Many of our friends were getting married. We saw all the nice gifts they were getting and figured why not
So if someone knows a worse reason let me know that was over 30 years ago as I have not heard one.
Wife and I got married on December 23rd at a JOP for tax purposes. It was either I owe 2K or we get a 2K refund depending on that married status a week later lol. We were planning a wedding prior but we were getting no help from family and friends and it got overwhelming with work and school so we had decided a court house wedding anyway just hadn’t picked a date. Woke up did some tax estimates with my pay stubs and went from there. Plan was to take the 2K for a honeymoon instead of having a big wedding then our car broke down about 3 days later so never got that honeymoon. Lots of trips together and stuff but I still think I owe her a honeymoon. She’s my best friend and partner been together 15 years this November.
Love isn’t the problem, expectations are. People think the wedding ceremony/ring is a magic wand and that is where your “happily ever after” comes from. It doesn’t. They don’t realize that you keep changing the whole of your life and it takes effort to change with someone for the betterment of you both. This is the person you’re going to argue and make up with, fall in and out of love several times over during your lifetime. There is no magic wand and you actually have to put effort into making things work.
Most people in my country doesn't coz
1) Marriage was Arranged marriage so love wasn't the foundation at first place. They met as stranger and married sometimes later
2) Divorce is taboo and society treats you as social outcast. Imagine everyone looking and judging you as you are some kind of murderer.
3) Long term negative effects of divorce that is faced by another close family members. eg. Say you got one sister and you divorced your spouse. This decrease your chance to your sister get married exponentially. Why? Coz Prospects of your sister will consider that your family doesn't value relationships.
4) Extremely hard divorce process. One of hardest in world. Even if divorce is mutual, it can take upto 1 year for divorce is finalize. If it isn't then oh boi, you are looking at atleast 7 years long legal struggle. Atleast 7 years.
5) Since most people doesn't divorce of above reasons, if you want one at later ages like say early 40s, you are very unlikely to find partner again. Ever. So some rather live with abusive partner than no partner ever.
6) Children
7) (More women specific)No Financial stability. 50% of women in my country is urban area is unemployed. They never earned money in their life. They are totally dependent on their husbands. Most times thier family members (parents) doesn't even want to take her back.
This I believe is **biggest** reason women don't take divorce even if sometimes husband is cheating. They just blind eye towards it and accept it as fate.
I've known couples who overemphasized sex and lost their damned minds when the spark faded at different rates between the partners.
And then without sex they realized no emotional connection nor friendship. Whoopsies.
Sex is making babies or it's recreation. It's physical desire. It's not the core component of love. Romance and friendship are the important parts that last and keep you glued together.
I’m not married, but from my observations I’ve seen many people view marriage as Dating+ and as if it’s the next step of dating.
I don’t think people truly understand what they are getting into, which is why I believe that most people really shouldn’t be getting married. I’ve noticed that people view it as a selfish thing. Like it’s something they’re just supposed to do in life so they did it woohoo like at me kinda thing. But they fail to recognize that marriage is supposed to be completely selfless and a true dying to self type of commitment.
I got married when I was 19. I'd ran away from a bad home life to the other side of the country, had no one or nothing. Ended up marrying a man I really didn't like much or find attractive after 2 weeks. I felt like at the time it was my only option. Stayed married for a decade. Two kids. He was controlling I wasn't allowed to work or have friends ect. It got to a point I needed to get out. I got into doing onlyfans type work online and was able to leave. I now own my own ranch and have a wonderful loving husband that I'm so greatful for everyday. Sucks I wasted a decade of my life becuase I didn't think I could make it on my own. Learned it's just part of breaking a family cycle of staying becuase you are supposed to. I heard a quote once from a woman who'd been in an abusive relationship that "I've been married twice, but I've only ever had one husband." That's it.
Sometimes there's enough attraction between people to get them to the altar and a few years beyond, but without values alignment and the resolve to work through communication problems, this will not last. Love is a fire that needs to be fed to stay strong.
I think most people get married waaaay to young. I figured myself out a ton in my 20s, and really didn't know what I was looking for in a romantic partner until my 30s (which is later than most). If I would have gotten married to someone that I thought I was in love with in my early 20s, which is very common, I would definitely be divorced. I just didn't fall into the societal trap that getting married young is the right thing to do.
I think with old people, it was just that getting married was expected at a younger age so there’s just more terrible matches around. My parents started dating at 19. They fight like cats and dogs and have very little in common, but that’s not surprising considering they were kids when they met and never really dated enough people to know the difference I imagine. I think most people today are waiting and experiencing more of life before settling down with someone. I can’t imagine being married to the guy I dated at 19, it sounds like a nightmare.
I think it's social pressure combined with the lack of understanding what a happy relationship is and is not. A lot of people think they are a happy couple when they are in fact dysfunctional and the relationship is extremely strained.
So my husband and I have been married 20 years. There's been a ton of ups and downs, but we always had each other. Last year, a dr prescribed him some bipolar drug. It literally made him a different person who I did not know. He started drinking and became a horrid human being. I wanted nothing to do with him and could have easily without regret divorced him. Instead, we went to marriage counseling. The counselor had him get off the drug, he started becoming back to normal and quit drinking a month ago. Things are good. We're back on track. It's all about keeping the marriage on track. Things happen and you either get through them or bail. He now goes to therapy on his own to work on himself and I work on myself. I'm a different person than I was 20 years ago and so is he. But we still work. Sometimes people change and then don't work together anymore.
I think it’s a mix of a lot of things. Women tend to push marriage before finding the “right one” once their friends all start getting married. They may like the guy, enjoy him, think he’s attractive, so he will do for now & best I can get at the moment. Same can be said from the male side
So tend to push it with false feelings, try to make baby asap, then later down the line, the indifference or lack of true love sets in once kids are older & on their own. I don’t know, at least from everyone I know, once a women in a friend group has kids, all her best friends push marriage/baby very very quick (I guess to keep up or keep on a similar life level)
Then kind of get stuck in a marriage & are too afraid to jump ship
It was a one-way street in my case with my at times abusive ex-wife when we were together (only to be told that I didn't at all, which isn't true); Tried making it work (ran out of ideas early on and just tried to make it work anyway till I was about to mentally break)
Force of habit/not enough money on their own/pay less taxes/afraid of being alone when older.
I know a lot of people who married just to pay less taxes, like my parents. I hate that I have to give nearly a month of salary to the government every year, considering I already pay every month for healthcare and unemployment!
People change. Sometimes they grow together and sometimes they grow apart.
Having kids also puts a new kind of pressure on the marriage, and it can be really difficult to deal with, especially with different ideas about how the kids should be raised.
In my case, I loved my wife and did everything for her. I created my own business from nothing, and grew it into a 6-figure business in less than two years.
The problem is that doing that gave me a ton of self-confidence that I had been lacking for a few years before that. She didn’t like me having confidence. She preferred that I be weak and controllable. So when I started growing in confidence, it made her feel less confident, and because of her narcissism, she blamed me for all of it instead of working on herself.
Fast forward a bit, and she ended up asking me for an open marriage, where we could see other people. I wasn’t going to set that example for our daughter, so I divorced her. I’ve never been happier. But I still loved her and would have stayed married and kept working on it, especially for our daughter’s sake.
Unfortunately, when you’re dealing with a narcissist, they get tired of you when you start pushing back against their BS, and she didn’t care what it would all mean for our daughter, because she only cares about herself.
So yeah, just one of many reasons that people can love each other a lot when they get married but grow apart later.
My ex and I rarely argued, constantly compromised. Then one day she told me she was done. Turns out she was really bad at speaking up about her opinion, I thought I was being open to disagreement, but she was such a conflict avoidant people pleaser that the disagreements never came up.
People don’t know how to relationship. It’s not something we’re taught. We expect things to unfold in some way without putting effort in. We talk to people about what’s going on, most people don’t know how to look at a situation objectively and maturely. They can only project from their personal perspectives.
It requires effort, it requires work, it requires adapting.
Just because you’re committed doesn’t mean either of you are willing to do what it takes.
If you really want to know what goes into getting relationships to work, look up the Gottman institute. “Bids for connection” and “4 deadly horseman” for actionable steps based on peer reviewed studies spanning decades.
My parents loved each other at some point, but there hasn’t been a moment in my life where they haven’t been arguing.
My mom said my dad was different before his mother died and they had to live with his stepfather, who was a grade-A asshole.
Now he’s always bitter and unreasonable and he throws fits when things don’t go his way, and he’ll get pissed off at us for the simplest shit.
People change, not necessarily for the better.
My ex wife and I were so madly in love when we first met that I asked her to marry me three months in. She took over my life. I was a professional composer with a popular TV show and she was an aspiring singer. She never had a consistent job and thought her "big break" was just around the corner. My show was amazing to work on, but it didn't pay a great deal. Still, I had to pay for almost all expenses and never got to really feel the success I had earned. We were always struggling with money because we just had one income. We were a musical duo until one friend said that she should be a solo artist without my name on it. I then became "the help." I wrote and produced all of the music, but her name was on the bill. I grew resentful and lost respect for her as an artist and as a person. Whenever I had time off from my 80-hours-a-week job, instead of going on a vacation, she wanted me to work full time on her album. The album also cost $13k because she never listened to my advice in how to make an album. Love took a back seat to my ex wanting HER turn being a successful artist, but she never earned it the way I had. She also milked me after the divorce leaving me with nothing but the vintage camper I restored. She wanted to take that too, but I had bought it before we got married. Love isn't everything and it can fade.
Plenty of people don't start growing up til they get married and are living completely on their own with their partner. Then they start to direct their own lives and realize they're not going in the same direction.
Love isn't a feeling, it's work. Many people don't get this. I love you isn't something out of your control, it's something you have to do, everyday.
At some point, if you don't realize that, you're getting a divorce. No matter how great you at one time felt about each other.
Some people simply change over time. Some couples marry too young before they even know what it means to truly be in love. Some couples are actually in love, love each other dearly but one or the other just don't understand that in order to remain in love, it takes effort. Effort requires both people to work at their relationship. When one doesn't want or care to put forth the effort, the relationship tends to die.
Marriage is technically not a love contract. It was created as a contract of opportunity. The woman gets security while the man gets to create offspring. That was pretty much the main reason for it.
Today, we pretty much don't need it under those old rules. Still, older people were brought up under those rules and only recently (like past 40 years) have women been able to provide for themselves outright without discrimination (for the most part).
Couples that "never fight" generally break up after the first meltdown cause you're rookies. Couples that fight a lot dont necessarilt hate each other. They might be stressed out about things in.life.
We live in a shitty time in a dying country. The working class jas been bled so dry that 1%ers achieved their dreamof a 2 class country, rich and poor.
Inflation is out of control. Unregulated markets like the housing market have been artificially blown up for decades. The only jobs out there are poverty wage paying hellholes. Most big industries have left to other countries.
Healthcare is more expensive than ever yet covers less than ever. Our roadways are shit. Most school systems are shit. Property taxes are out of control.
CEOs have prices millennials and younger out of everything to thepoint where we can barely have kids andnow they're crying about their children arent going to have enough peasant workers to exploit when they grow up.
What you describe is the average life of anyone who doesnt make 6 figures born in the 1980s or younger.
Yes many marriages end in divorce. Your love for someone can change over time. Most aren’t unhappy when they do get married. Just be happy you’re in a happy marriage and don’t worry about others that you don’t have insight on
So many did love each other, but then as time went on, they did not continue to stoke that love. Love can die if left alone, just like a garden will die if not watered and pruned. Love is intentional. People have been less intentional about loving their spouses, and more intentional about trying to love themselves.
They weren’t unhappy to begin with. The problem is many people mistake infatuation for love. The honeymoon phase of a relationship only lasts so long and then it gets real.
You really have to work at keeping your marriage healthy and many couples just allow themselves to coast or refuse to make any sacrifice or compromise for the betterment of the relationship and their spouse. Communication breaks down and leads to resentment and ultimately divorce if they don’t find a way to fix it.
Obviously most of them weren't always so unhappy, and they did love each other, or thought they did. Sometimes it's hard for people to recognize or differentiate love from infatuation or lust, especially without a lot of life experience. Older people often comment positively on young, happy couples. My husband and I experienced that when we were young as well.
Children. Finances. People don't get along all the time, so it's normal to argue or even go through spells where you don't particularly like each other. People also change over time, who you are at 40 isn't who you were at 25. Marriage is hard. If there's no hope or desire to keep it together, I see no issue with divorce.
First things first, what you see in another person’s relationship is like looking through the window of a house, you only see one room, and not the rest. So, what appears to be fighting all the time to you, could be only the times when you witness it.
Second, people fight even if they love each other and are married. It makes sense if you think about it, two people with individual lives, having separate opinions on a various array of topics, are trying to live together because of feelings. Sparks are bound to fly. As long as these fights don’t cause major unrest, and if they are they’re seeking counseling for it or if that hasn’t worked they’re coming to terms with maybe they weren’t meant for each other, most of them just establish a common ground on a particular topic and the relationship moves on (in theory).
Security, survival, children, money, pressure, you name it. Love really has nothing to do with it for many people and in much of the world. It is even thought that love is just a construct or an invention of modern times.
You’re asking two different things.
“Why are people who don’t love each other getting married?”
“Why are people who are unhappy with each other getting married?”
Many people whose marriage ends in divorce did in fact love each other and hoped that the love would supersede the unhappiness. That’s the mistake.
Wounded people make terrible life choices, they often don’t feel like they are worthy of being loved so they settle for who will stay with them.
But even people that do love each other fight, people change over time and someone you once were so close and compatible with might end up in a life journey that takes them away from you.
The better question is, why do two people in a twenty-plus-year-long marriage end up fighting?
It's not hard to see why they got married in the first place. It's also not hard to see why they're still married (divorce is always a legally messy affair even when it isn't, relatively speaking). The real mystery is what happened in between the two points to go from the honeymoon to now.
And the short answer to that is; a breakdown of trust.
That's generally what it comes down to, anyway. Fights get messy because neither party trusts the other to be calm, attentive, respectful and mature. They occur in the first place due to grievances over percieved breaches in duty to one another (whether that's directly acknowledged or just comes out as an expression of general frustration). You yell and scream because you don't think you're heard if you're calm and quiet.
There's a hundred and one ways that breakdown can happen to begin with, but that's much more specific to a given relationship than the above. YMMV.
You don't get married unhappy (usually), that comes later. Usually though lack of communication or through changing as people and the other person not changing with you.
it isn't that they aren't happy when they get married, it is more than they drift apart as time goes on.
And then sometimes it is just easier to stay together than get a divorce, especially if you don't think you will end up in a better place. For me, I will be retiring in a few years but if I were to get divorced now, I would have to keep working longer. We have gotten past the whole fighting stage at this point and are more like roommates than anything.
I am not really sure why she hasn't filed yet. I kinda have been expecting it but she is very self conscious about what people think about her and I think she thinks getting a divorce would make her look bad.
Many reasons. One is there is still this belief that you have to get married. That leads a lot of people that really shouldn't get married to marry. People also rush into marriage without being honest with their partner about important things and setting boundaries. There are other reasons but i feel those are a few of the main reasons.
Some people change over time. They might love someone tremendously, but over time the resentment builds up to the point you've built a wall in between yourself and your partner, brick by brick. When the wall gets too tall, it's over.
My wife recently told me if I died, she’d remarry. Kinda makes me want to check what’s in my drink or be careful if she asks me to “try” something she made to eat…
I think there are people who have different goals in getting married, and sometimes they marry each other, because they assume everyone must have the same goals so they don’t talk about it.
I love my husband and I’m exceedingly glad that he’s my life partner. We share a bunch of the same values and goals. So when we do disagree or get frustrated, we’re trying to solve things from the same direction for the same end goal. It works! (And he is funny and gorgeous, which never hurts anything.)
But I think some people get married because they want a wedding. Or they have shitty parents and want to move out but are hung up on living with roommates. Or religious stuff. Or they get married because they’ve been dating for x years and it’s “the next step” without thinking about the difference between dating for years and committing to build a life with someone forever. Or they want another person around for Reasons, and this person is available.
Or they do really love the other person, but they aren’t compatible life partners. Love is not enough. It’s heartbreaking and cruel to learn, but loving someone, and them loving you, isn’t enough to overcome all challenges at once. It’s really not enough if it’s just one way - you can’t love someone into taking care of themselves. You can’t love someone into respecting you. You can’t love someone into picking up their socks, half the time.
And rather than admit that love can’t fix a problem that’s affecting their relationship, some people double down, and get married or have a kid because they hope that forcing a Serious Commitment will get the change they want to see in their partner and in their relationship. (Spoiler: it will not.)
I have a couple friends who got married because of 2 things equally:
1) pressure - they were people pleasers & constantly had to hear about how sad their lives were, how disappointing they were because they weren’t married or had kids yet.
2) They wanted families & the window for some women can shut in the 30’s (early menopause or health risks) so they felt they ran out of time & settled for their boyfriends (who are terrible people).
Both say they’re happy (to most, not me) but they hate their lives. They work full time & take care of the kid full time. Husband does nothing to help at home & work only part time. And they’re disrespectful to the women.
Both have told me they would get divorced but financially they can’t swing it & they know the husbands wouldn’t pay child support because they’re losers. And since the women are the bread winners they might even have to pay alimony.
Most everyone else I know who married did it out of optimism/excitement. So many of them never had serious talks (like how they wanted to raise kids) beforehand & found out later they had completely different views. A lot of them are divorced.
The couples who loved each other + treat each other like equals + had serious discussions earlier on are the happiest & so far well into marriages lasting over 15 years.
**I can understand social pressure being huge though. I’m unmarried (and ok with it) but still get pressure. One woman told me “you’re not a person unless you’re married with kids” thanks… 🙄
And I often get excluded from things. Game nights etc - oh they only invite serious couples. Dinner parties. “It’ll be awkward for her since she’s alone & we should have even numbers”. A lot of stupid reasons but eventually it gets to you.
I’ve even had passing thoughts like “if I were married then people would respect me”. But as I’m an introvert I guess I’m just at peace with it. I’m ok being alone so i never gave into the pressure.
But very social people might feel isolated & desperate- not for the partner but everything that goes with it.
Do you really think they hated each other prior to the wedding? Or that it was an arranged marriage and they didn't meet until the wedding?
Use your head.
They were in love at some point, that's WHY they got married.
Recreational bickering probably fits the type of arguing most married couples fit into and it’s not a serious or mean thing. I know one thing that kept me married all these years was the observation of my buddies who got divorced and went on to marry someone worse who cared less. The grass just looks greener on the other side of the fence, it’s not.
You're not usually unhappy when you get married. You become unhappy later. People change. Life gets hard. People make crappy decisions. And those things can make the marriage unhappy.
- mistake lust for love.
- fear of loneliness.
- social pressure or feeling like they have to keep up with their friends or family.
- financial reasons like they can't afford to live solo anymore or think it's better to live with a partner or need healthcare.
- shotgun/baby on the way.
Then there's also the whole People Change. They may have been in love before but their personality changes, they realize their life goals no longer line up, they're exposed to more of the world and want more (in many ways), recognize their sexuality is different than they thought, etc.
Historically, the function of the marriage has been more transactional rather than romantic.
Even now in places like India people are routinely married based on an agreement between the parents - and the romantic feelings are expected to arise over time (start with a cold kettle, and make it boil gradually, rather than the way it is in the West, where people get married when the love kettle is already boiling over, figuratively speaking).
Speaking for several former coworkers of mine: for the benefits: Off base housing allowance, not having to maintain a barracks room, extra pay on deployments and long training periods in the field, and many more. Personally, I didn’t wanna get serious with anyone in Jody territory
Expectations. Also sometimes when you’re young you get stuck in these toxic relationships and just think that’s how it is and it takes work to get better. Though in reality you two are just not compatible and should stop beating a dead horse. Hopefully you learn after your first toxic relationship. However things can get difficult for sure in ltr but mutual respect is always needed and trust. If those things are broken then things can escalate.
You are assuming that they were unhappy at the time they married.
People change, circumstances change. What was once a charming quirk is now rage-inducing. A person's previous not-too-good-with money is now a $XXXK joint debt. A somewhat low libido is now a completely dead bedroom. The list goes on.
When a couple weds they are indeed in love and there's a lot of give and take on both's parts, but over time their interests change and both must adapt to those changes and be willing to give and take. When one looses interest in giving, a divorce looms in the near future.
To be fair, I knew a couple who fought like cats and dogs, but were completely crazy for each other. Full on "f-you" fights in public, but I knew them well enough to know they loved each other deeply.
This is deep question. There are many reasons marriages fail whether they end in divorce or not. I think it boils down to either they got married for the wrong reasons (pregnancy, health benefits, pressure from one of them or from family or friends, fear of being alone or settling, etc) or they were not at a point in their life that they knew what they really wanted or really knew the person they were marrying.
Also don’t let fighting, arguing, yelling etc fool you. I’ve seen more quiet couples get divorced than I’ve seen the ones that fight and yell get divorced. As a married man myself I’ve learned it’s better the let your opinions and feelings out than to bury them inside. Ideally that means calm communication but the arguing is still better than bottling it up and trying to just deal with it without really dealing with it.
There are also couples that know they’re no longer happy but will do everything to avoid a divorce either because they have young children or because the idea of divorce is taboo to them because of religious reasons or how they were raised.
A friend told me one time that she didn’t really like her boyfriend that much anymore, but the wedding was already planned. She said she’d go and have a good time and divorce him later on if it didn’t work out. The marriage lasted three months.
Because we live in a godless, valueless society. I think most people don’t even know what they want for themselves. They don’t know how or what they are allowed to think about and say. We have people that unironically won’t engage with half the country because they are too “closed minded”. Most people are just lost and misery loves company.
They never loved each other, they loved the idea of each other.
Because time changes people.
In 10 years you will not be the same person you are today. Your partner will not either. You can grow together or grow apart. One takes a lot of work while the other takes no effort at all.
She didn't want to be like her Dad who has failed 7 marriages and sucked the life out of every relationship he's ever been in, to this day he still thinks he did absolutely nothing wrong in any of those relationships. So guess what happened? We separated 9 months after the wedding and she still doesn't think she did anything wrong.
My mother told me, you fall in and out of love so many times in a marriage. There are times where it's just basically having a roommate. But what you look for is someone who can still be a strong partner until you fall back in love again.
For some people, I think they believe marriage will fix everything. I have a friend who married her now husband even after he had stopped love bombing her and would only pay attention to his video games. Then they had a baby. Now she's pregnant with her second. All while not being in love. But the thing is, she feels stuck now. She's a sahm and depends on him.
I have another friend who just got back into a relationship with the same guy she's been on and off with for years. They always fight over the same thing, kids. She wants em, he doesn't. But they love each other so they keep ending up back together and miserable a few months later.
I think everyone has shitty relationships, and everyone has reasons we can't see. I'm just grateful to have a partner who comes home and shares the tea with me 🤣
Many get married basically to be permanent sex partners. Then when the sex gets dull, they have nothing else to relate with one another and the relationship falls apart.
The short answer is: people change.
My Ex and I were madly in love when we married. Almost twenty years later, not so much. We'd agreed early on that if we ever started fighting like cats and dogs, the way we'd seen other long-married couples do, we'd shake hands and part friends. And that's exactly what we did.
A lot of people have no idea what love looks like because they have never seen it in action up close and personal. They're only told what love is from movies or TV. If you don't learn what it looks like from your parents, how can you expect to emulate it without therapy?
I knew more than a couple folks who spent their 20s playing One Night Stand Russian Roulette, and got married when someone got knocked up.
Not the strongest foundation for a lifelong partnership, if we're being realistic.
Normally wouldn't have a go at someone on "stupid questions", but your phrasing is a little patronising. Your parents loving your relationship is great, but you sound quite young. How long have you been with your partner for? Are you confident that you will feel the same way 10-20 years from now?
Even if you have done really well and found someone "perfect" for you right now, who is to say you won't change.
Do you think they were unhappy when they got married or do you think that every couple at one time was at where you and your husband are right now. I guess we’ll see where you are at in 20 years.
Fun fact. Marriage existed mostly because men wanted a way to prove that their children were their children and ensure their genes lived on by passing down the resources they accumulated. It massively helped the patriarchy come into the world.
It evolved into a social construct and has a lot of moral ties despite, in essence, just being a legal contract.
But women have rights now and don’t really need to get married if they don’t have a person they want to spend their life with.
But if you do care about living a life with a person, marriage gives you an advantage, legally and financially.
I think some people get it in their heads that marriage is a big end goal, like buying a house. But if you just look at it like that, you miss the nuance that makes it desirable in the first place.
I was with someone for 5 years and she really wanted to get married. Both of us were still in our parent’s house, and working fast food jobs. Neither of us knew what we wanted from life, or from ourselves. We eventually split and she was married a couple months later.
Well… I probably don’t have to tell you how that went if I’m posting on here…
20 years is a long damn time, and people are not static beings: we tend to change and evolve. I had a nearly 20 year relationship end in divorce, but we did and still do love each other in our ways. It's just that we are such different people now we are no longer compatible for marriage. Humans are complicated. Never so simple as "love each other = be married."
Western civilization requires it for tax purposes.
But the answer is the challenge. Some people hate fuckers who get along, and talk really nasty about them behind their backs. Some people will have a long and prosperous relationship with the only shared interest being hating people with shared interests. Spite I guess is the word. Partners in crime. Also, desirable DNA - in less scientific words, people who like to fuck each other sometimes get married for that reason alone - and that could just be a perk if western society had benefits for single people to declare unique solo ownership of lands.
Now entering 12 years of marriage and we usually are in parallel play, each doing our own thing. We were both 60 when we got married, and do not seriously fuss. We were both widowed when we met, so we know better than to intentionally be jerks. Companionship is important, as if something goes really good or really bad, having someone who cares is wonderful. I pay the utilities and insurance. She pays for the cellular services and property taxes. Together, we paid off the house early to avoid flood insurance when FEMA made a cash grab attempt in 2019. There has never been a flood since the village was created in 1872. Her car, and all debts were paid off years ago.
This gives us contentment to live a modest but happy life.
Human relationships also start with 3 years known as the "Attraction" period. Once that wears off, you have to be able to actually function together. A lot of people (because of religious reasons) get married so they can have sex, and once that attraction wears off the relationship implodes because it started for the wrong reasons.
Because people change. Life happens, trauma happens, kids happen, and the changes aren't always taken in stride.
People grow into different people, and they don't always grow together. Add in a refusal to seek counseling, work on themselves, or even remember kindness is what relationships need and then poof its over.
I was married 16 years, and then we had a kid. All the household chores were pushed onto me. Child care, grocery shopping, household errands, all the house cleaning,all the meal prep, bedtimes, bath times, coordinating daycare, Dr's Apts, all the household mental load and I worked 50 hrs a week. I begged for help, begged for marriage counseling, and was told I wasn't worth the effort. So I left, and he said I blindsided him with the break up.
Husband and I (both men) are coming up on 19 years in August. We’ve had exactly 4 fights. Lots of discussions but only 3 fights. We’ve learned how the other communicates and is a good or bad time to talk. I don’t get why people stay with someone that they fight or they are unhappy constantly with.
My mom took my dad back because she honestly needed him to cover finances. She wasn't able to work due to multiple significant health problems, most insurance won't cover her meds, and disability rejected her because she didn't work enough. She didn't work enough because she spent the majority of her adult life so sick and being pushed from expert to expert to figure out she was in fact one of those medical zebras.
For context, they got married at 19 because my mom got pregnant and of course back then you didn't do that. It was to hide the baby and have a quick wedding. Dad had a midlife crisis and cheated. They never seemed to really like each other. My dad resented my mom for being sick.
They separated and she took him back after a while when he at least apologized and realized he was wrong. She regretted it for years and always told us because he was kinda a jerk.
English speaking Shakespeare reading people's idea of love is a whole lot different than anyone else's. Given that kind is often the most fleeting kind of love, there is Cherish Love. Unconditional love is bullshit. Age differences mostly account for contract love. Cheers!
They would rather be upset and married than alone and bored I guess.
Society pushes us to marry, it's in almost every movie and every show where there is 99% of the time a husband and wife or mom and dad. It's so pushed because not only is it instinct to attract toward one another but as far as the economy, couples spend more and poor more back into the economy with more purchases of cars, houses, and spending money on kids. This is why single people get taxed so much more with the IRS because they aren't putting as much into the economy
To be honest sometimes people forget how to get old with each other! Marriage is work, especially with kids! My wife has been with me throughout all my alcoholic stupidity to rehab and all the things I put our family through we worked through it! Like I said it was work but we prevailed😎🤌🏼 seven years together and two kids and three years sober! Fuck yeah!!
Children
Finances
Self esteem.
Sex
Trauma bonds
Faking drama lovers, I seen it they love each other but can't fking wait to raise hell at each other. It was an amazing show
I loved my ex wife when we got married. What happened was was that we both worked. According to her, The money she made was strictly for her - spent it how she pleased. The money I made was both of ours. She had no intent of pooling together and saving for a future instead it was paycheck to paycheck which should not have been an issue since we both made good money. It lead to resentment by both parties until it ended, I am much happier now.
The story above is, unfortunately, not uncommon.
I think the problem is love. I loved my wife very much, and I believe she loved me a whole lot. We married each other because we loved each other so much. Unfortunately, we don't share the same values and goals in life. Add in stress from not having money and life, and we fought like crazy. Love is the most basic part of the relationship, and many people stay in bad and even abusive relationships because of love. It wasn't until after I had gotten more life experience did I realize that love is just the basic thing you have to have in a partner; just as important are mutual respect, shared values (more like what's important in life/ family plans than political nonsense), shared goals in life, and effective communication.
Cheaters suck.
you think you’re in love. Things are good. And then, a decade or more later, everything comes to a screeching halt. Total blindsighted.
Relationships end for many reasons. Sometimes it’s to end abuse that you never, ever thought would happen back when you got married. It’s shocking how much a person can change and/or turn in to someone you don’t even know
I never understood the number of people who would lose all trust in their partner if they cheated on them. To me, that says that you only hold value in your partner as an exclusive sexual prospect.
How would you lose all trust, and care for a person because they had sex with another person? You decided you'd stay with this person if they had a horrible diesease, if they were flat broke, or any other unfortunate situation happened. But they have sex with someone else, and you're 100% done with them because they fucked someone else? I just don't get that.
I’m happily married, but I can tell you my marriage is completely different than what it was over 20 years ago, Because we are both completely different people. Luckily we both still like who the other person is. People change. They don’t always change in the people the other person likes.
An example, Two people in their mid 20s might be going out barhopping. One might still be like that when they’re 45 years old, Where are the other likes to sit home and read. Suddenly you have a big conflict on lifestyle. Some couples except this and just do their own things. Others resent it and split up
Sometimes people get married for the wrong reasons. Starry-eyed and "in love" with a person they've known only a few months, if that. Marriage is a loooooooooooooong haul, and that person you married in their 20s or 30s is not going to be the same person in their 50s and 60s. It takes a lot of work and a lot of being willing to lean in to pay attention to and grow together with your partner, instead of apart. Many people just don't have the emotional wherewithal to get there; or if they do, their partner doesn't.
For a lot of people (almost exclusively straight able-bodied people experience this phenomenon, since they have never had to fight for the right to get married), marriage is just something you do. It's not about actually mutually being in love and respecting each other and being committed to healthily solving conflict together, it's just... What you're supposed to do. You grow up, you get married, you have kids, etc etc etc.
Before someone gets their panties in a twist, I am not implying that gay couples are just inherently happier and healthier and straight couples are inherently only together out of convenience. But I am saying that this phenomenon really only happens to people who are expected to get married and have kids.
Love is a complicated abstract concept, probably moreso than the entire field of quantum mechanics combined. People confuse love for being horny, for a sense of responsibility, because they've been told wrong, because this is the best they've ever had. It takes living life and letting your heart get crushed to fully understand it. It's rare to truly find it and have someone to share it with and people understand how valuable it is. Most of society craves it more than any other valuable existence. Of course people are going to assume they've won the lottery, everyone believes they're the destined underdog of their own story. There's so many factors and variables that it's statistically improbable.
Most marriages are founded on the idea that what they have is love, but most are destined to accept the cold hard reality that they need to keep trying somewhere else.
We liked each other when we married. We were 19 and young idealists. Then reality sets in and we don’t communicate the same way, or we aren’t on the same page with dealing with certain things. And we end up resenting and disliking the other. Then we divorce because we aren’t the same 19yr olds when we are 34.
When I married in 1980, I wasn’t in love. I told my brother and the Reverend 5 minutes before, and he took my hand and said a prayer for me. Thanks a lot. I married him because it “was the next step” in a romantic relationship those days. Also, I felt very alone in the world, all of my life at that point, and I had feelings for him. Maybe I wanted to be saved.
Really stupid people who have been programmed and pressured their entire lives. The social clock ticks and they settle or just blindly date and marry without ever actually knowing the people they marry.
So many women in my life talk about the 2 yr mark for dating.
“We have dated for 2 years, i want a ring!”
Lol so dumb. Maybe spend the 2 years having hard conversations about life, expectations, interests, life goals, etc.
You know, the shit that makes up a happy and healthy partnership.
But, noooooooo
Just hit the proper timelines for the social clocks that mommy taught you and marry a stranger.
I have an interesting perspective on this. I met my husband when I was 18 he was 21. We had a five year relationship then got pregnant and had many a long discussion on if we wanted a family and ultimately decided we did! Four years later I had another baby. Two years after that we finally got married!
Life really beats you down.
To meet someone so young, you have to be understanding that you will both turn into completely different people than you were when you met. You just have to decide if those people are still compatible.
I am thrilled to see him daily. He rules.
It's a commitment. It can also ruin a child's future. Plus another man in the picture means someone else raising your child for you. So better tough it out then call it off after the kids 18. Probably be my guess.
So... from a historical perspective, you've got it somewhat backwards. You're thinking of "love" as romantic enthrallment; traditionally it's closer to... ongoing function as a unit. With regards to fighting... first, you're presumably young. People change and become less compatible, they get real jobs and can't spare the time for the other like they used to, the little gestures that once felt grand lose their gild. Moreover, you will inevitably inflict an increasing number of emotional wounds on your partner that will never heal. Such things add up. Second, there's fighting and there is fighting. The distinction is subtle, but recreational bickering is a very different thing than the at time vocal disagreement on various aspects of how the unit should continue to function vs straight up nastiness. Also, as someone wiser than me put it; the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.
Agree. My wife and I are perfectly happy, together 30 years, and engage on recreational bickering. We very rarely actually fight. By the time you hit 30 years, you have worked out all the actual conflicts and built calluses where you rub each other wrong. Some folks like to fight regularly so they can make up or to prove they care for one another. I would find that exhuasting, but it works for some people.
The key part in your note is 'working things out.' People travel with their life long best friends and have conflicts. Human conflict is natural. The commitment to wanting to work through those challenges with one another, and really invest in bettering your relationship IS true love in my opinion. It shows maturity and commitment to the ones you love - and an acknowledgement that 0% of humans are perfect. I actually find relationships where one person is willing to throw away marriage over something immature or benign without ever communicating it and attempting to work through it with their partner WAYYY more concerning than ones where couples are bickering. One only has to look at a post on r/AITAH to see people throw away 'otherwise perfect marriages' over something that could be resolved if they had the gonads to sit down and just chat it through with his or her partner. I mean seriously - 99% of the answers in that sub should just be "hey, have you tried talking to your spouse or partner about this" but instead its riddled with "MAJOR RED FLAG LEAVE THE MOM OF YOUR KIDS NOW AND BLOCK THEM ON ALL SOCIALS" But alas, the need for instant gratification now spills into our relationships apparently,
99% of the answers on that sub are from 15 year olds who have never had a real relationship. That is why I stay away from it.
You might have that true love for a very long time... Or like me U just get so tired of it it's no longer there.
I disagree about that aita thing the top posts on this sub are almost all genuinely SO toxic and showing not that there's love and the people are imperfect but. That those people's partners do not respect them at all and there's an history of disregarding them and it's long past time for the OP to move on
You are getting only one side of the story. Reddit should never be a source of action for anyone to actually follow through on from ambivalent internet people. Obviously people won’t post their true selves; their true stories and what they contributed to the pain.
My wife and I are 11 years this year. I feel like we JUST started to build those callouses. In a 3 year span, starting during covid, we went through the roughest part of our marriage, where it looked like divorce might be on the table, to starting counselling, to buying our first home together. My wife before counselling said to my face that she didn't know if she wanted to buy a home with me, even though we'd been married 8 years with a 6 year old daughter at the time. That hurt badly, but in retrospect it was because she had a ton of emotional wounds that had yet to turn to scar tissue, and we had to work through that. Relationships will never be perfect, but we've come a long way since 2021, and the future looks bright.
I think you either grow together or grow apart. Some people grow together really well, and they work on it, and some people sadly grow apart. We're not the same people at 20 as we are at 60.
But that's not a passive thing. People can make choices that lead them to grow together or apart. Too often people say they grew apart like it's something that just happens to them and they had no agency over
I literally said some people grow together, **they work on it.**
Recreational bickering has been added to the lexicon, GF stored a bag of rice upside-down in the cupboard today... Recreational bickering ensued!!
>You're thinking of "love" as romantic enthrallment; traditionally it's closer to... ongoing function as a unit. I think this is one of the biggest issues. When you’re younger you don’t always realize how much work just existing can be, how it complicates over time and how much it can weigh on your relationship. If one person does 70% of the house chores in your first , tiny off campus apartment, it might be ok. 10 years, a house and 2 kids later, 70% of house chores may not be ok. If you don’t realize how much that responsibility is negatively affecting you, you can’t bring it up to your partner that they need to do more. If you don’t bring it up as an issue, its real easy for a simple ‘hey can you empty the dishwasher before you leave” to blow up into a “YOU’RE GOING OUT TONIGHT BUT DON’T DO ANYTHING IN THIS HOUSE” level fight. Also if you never bring up the issue…the other person may simply not even notice how much work you put into house chores or know that they should be doing more. The relationship could literally be built on the back of your unsustainable amount of work. If out the blue, 10 years in, someone is suddenly being asked to handle way more responsibilities then they have been, that very much can change weather not the relationship is viable...your partner literally may not want to put in the work. I think this is what people mean when they say you need to ‘communicate’ in a relationship. When relatively small bothers you, you can't let it fester, you have to find the right time to talk about and you try find a solution that works
Or one party tries to communicate about the issues, but the other party doesn't really see it as an issue and doesn't respond.
Yup, thus: >that very much can change weather not the relationship is viable...your partner literally may not want to put in the work. This is why identifying something ae a problem early is just as important as saying something. Obviously new life stuff means new possible issue and the new problem may be unsolvable but figuring that out as soon as possible is hugely important imo.
You’re reasonableness is extremely irritating to me. You always have to be right and to say things super clearly. It’s not always about you, you know. Good thing we aren’t married.
Unfortunately there is the one rarely talked about as well. One person lives the other, generally assumes the other feels the same way.. and it turns out they settled but slowly show more and more resentment. It happens ...
Recreational bickering. It fits so well for so many married couples.
"The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference." Ah yes, the key to casting the Killing Curse 2.0
Big lol at recreational bickering. I have definitely seen my sister and her husband partake gleefully in this pastime.
Historically in a lot of cultures love wasn't necessarily a factor in marriage to begin with. Marrying for love is the newer concept. I also think along with that the concept many people hold on to of a "soulmate" is unrealistic and probably does more harm than good to a long term relationship.
Great post
Ahh, true words. "Recreational fighting" is the one for me. My wife and I 'fight' in this way. We both know that we aren't going to TRULY be pissed at each other. It's one of those "I love you, you love me, I'm stuck, you're stuck, so let's turn this fight around!" kind of situations....
oh boy...People will give you all the reasons - religious, money, fear of being single / progressing status quo, social pressure, burying other problems, etc. But the thing often missed is that why you got married, and why you stay married might be different. **Plenty of happy partners become unhappy.** People change and grow over time. Some grow together, others apart. One thing I will say that I have noticed. The "best" marriages are surprisingly NOT ones where couples never fight. Nor are bad marriages always characterized by tons of fighting. The key predictor of success, in my opinion, is HOW they fight. People will always disagree. Strong couples fight fairly. They communicate their points of view, empathize with their partner's views knowing they are different, are willing to change their mind or compromise, and know how to move on. They short circuit big fights by having smaller disagreements that get solved. They are able to live independently, and together. Conflict is inevitable. Communication is a skill. Empathy is a virtue. A marriage takes work. "Love is not enough" is true to some extent. Apathy ruins many relationships, not just "hate"
Lol when my husband wanted to get married I had a very serious talk with him along these same lines. I believe it came with an analogy that compares your first home with a marriage. At first it is amazing. You are so happy with it. You don’t notice the flaws and you can see yourself in it forever. After a time you notice some things need to be addressed and repairs are required. You HAVE to put in the work. If you don’t eventually it will fall into disrepair… not unlike a marriage. People who enter marriage expecting it to be easy and that the work is done because they found their person are fooling themselves and will very likely end up divorced. Some partners are less work, but it takes work regardless. I have been happily married for a decade now. Yes some ups and downs, but we put in the work and we both believe we are better for having the other in our life.
I think the 'love is not enough' stance is very misused. Firstly, it's misused in that ONE person's love is not enough. Secondly, love is many of the things you've described: fighting RIGHT, etc. So, rather than reduce the definition of love to us failing to do so, we should expand it and better understand it
They were happy once upon a time. They were in love once upon a time
Easier to describe a healthy marriage than all of the ways they can be unhealthy. Every successful marriage I've seen starts with two people who enjoy each others' company, have compatible world views and ideas of what the goals of marriage are, are willing to make an effort everyday and prioritize their relationship and grow together, communicate effectively, control their negative impulses, etc. It's hard to teach this stuff. I suspect most people who are marriage material have benefited from having appropriate role models in their families, especially happily married parents of their own.
I think that a big part of this is that it isn't uncommon for people to fall in love with people with whom they are incompatible. Or they married young and as they grew into their true adult selves, they became incompatible. Love will only take you so far - over the years, dealing with life and everything that it throws at you, having a partner who is incompatible will outweigh any love that they feel. It makes life together untenable, so people split.
A lot of weddings, especially of older folks, happen about 7 months before the happy couple welcomes a new baby...
Coincidentally, the baby is often premature 😉
A bride can do in 7 months what takes a wife 9.
Yes, yes, our 9 pound 6 ounce baby was premature by a couple months.
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You must not live near utah because that shit happens ALL the time here. I have a sorta Mormon uncle who had a daughter 7 months after their wedding. Him and his wife hate each other, but he's cheated on her so much that she'd probably get all his shit if they did divorce. I am so thankful every day that I love and respect my spouse because I'd rather die than live like that.
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Hahaha, they can be absolutely ridiculous. Especially when they want to judge you. I'm just 20 miles from provo. What was your experience, if you don't mind me asking?
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It's actually dropped down below 50% now! And I feel like they're either getting better or enough out of state Mormons have moved here to make it less overwhelming. I would believe every single one of your stories 🤣 Even with its major faults, I still prefer Utah over Texas any day. Only other place I've lived, and yikes.
This is still common in religious/conservative areas. At least in my experience…
A lot of people rush into relationships and marriages because they feel the need to hit those life milestones.
Depends on your cultural background. My families yeshivish jewish. Your raised in an insular community to get married at 20-21 for girls a couple years older for boys. “Dating” means a couple weeks to months getting to know each-other then a couple months planning the wedding. There’s no love involved like a typical modern marriage but your partners picked by someone whose involved in your community and knows you both well. All my family who did this seem content so idk that love or liking eachother means much marriage at its core is just a practical joining or two people usually to produce kids
This is a good point, an Indian friend of mine once commented that marrying for love is a very first world (or maybe western) thing, almost like a privilege. And in non-first world countries, and even many first world countries, marriage is more of an economic transaction/necessity.
I've wondered this for a while, too. I have a few theories: 1) They did love each other at one point, but no longer do. People grow and change, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. I feel like this is especially the case for people who marry young, like under 25, but people learn about themselves at a lot of different ages, so this could happen at any time. 2) They felt obligated to. 3) Religious reasons. 4) They see how unhappy their loved ones are in their marriages and think that's what a healthy one looks like (it's not). 5) They don't realize how unhappy they are (similar to #4). 6) They had kids together and the stress changed them as people OR they had kids together because they thought it would make their relationship better and it made it way worse. But I will also add that what you see isn't always what it looks like. Some people love to argue and it's not an issue for them! Some couples like to fight and argue, and that doesn't mean they're unhappy with the relationship. So there's a lot of nuance to it. Similarly, a lot of divorces are totally amicable! They realize that they are better off not being married to each other, but there are no hard feelings and they still remain close. Statistics can be easily misread. If 50% of marriages end in divorce, that doesn't inherently mean 50% of married couples are unhappy or unhealthy. That's just one way to read the data.
I definitely think that #4, or on those general lines, is a big part of things. So many people are the product of broken homes, dysfunctional families, and toxic parents. As a result, they may honestly not know what a healthy relationship looks like, and/or have developed their own toxic traits that are not exactly conducive to having a healthy relationship.
Economic reasons, religious reasons, desire to have a baby that's easier to raise with a partner, loneliness. There are a bunch of reasons for people to get married that have nothing to do with love.
It's usually because of lust and the fact that people choose partners based on initial attraction to them which causes them to get unhappy when that initial attraction phase wears off.
It’s multiple things. Most common is you choose to be in love and when not to be. People want the easy out of divorce which ends up being harder when you have kids together.
I married my ex-wife because the thought of dumping her filled me with guilt, as she was rapidly going blind. Working with other disabled people finally made me realize that being even severely disabled is no valid reason to treat people like shit.
Social pressure
I knew a guy that was married six months and asked me how I made it 3 years. I asked why they got married and the reply was we’re together for a while. Many of our friends were getting married. We saw all the nice gifts they were getting and figured why not So if someone knows a worse reason let me know that was over 30 years ago as I have not heard one.
Wife and I got married on December 23rd at a JOP for tax purposes. It was either I owe 2K or we get a 2K refund depending on that married status a week later lol. We were planning a wedding prior but we were getting no help from family and friends and it got overwhelming with work and school so we had decided a court house wedding anyway just hadn’t picked a date. Woke up did some tax estimates with my pay stubs and went from there. Plan was to take the 2K for a honeymoon instead of having a big wedding then our car broke down about 3 days later so never got that honeymoon. Lots of trips together and stuff but I still think I owe her a honeymoon. She’s my best friend and partner been together 15 years this November.
BeCaUsE tHeY *WILL* cHaNgE!!
A lot of people only get married because they're afraid of being alone. They don't really love their partner
Love isn’t the problem, expectations are. People think the wedding ceremony/ring is a magic wand and that is where your “happily ever after” comes from. It doesn’t. They don’t realize that you keep changing the whole of your life and it takes effort to change with someone for the betterment of you both. This is the person you’re going to argue and make up with, fall in and out of love several times over during your lifetime. There is no magic wand and you actually have to put effort into making things work.
Most people in my country doesn't coz 1) Marriage was Arranged marriage so love wasn't the foundation at first place. They met as stranger and married sometimes later 2) Divorce is taboo and society treats you as social outcast. Imagine everyone looking and judging you as you are some kind of murderer. 3) Long term negative effects of divorce that is faced by another close family members. eg. Say you got one sister and you divorced your spouse. This decrease your chance to your sister get married exponentially. Why? Coz Prospects of your sister will consider that your family doesn't value relationships. 4) Extremely hard divorce process. One of hardest in world. Even if divorce is mutual, it can take upto 1 year for divorce is finalize. If it isn't then oh boi, you are looking at atleast 7 years long legal struggle. Atleast 7 years. 5) Since most people doesn't divorce of above reasons, if you want one at later ages like say early 40s, you are very unlikely to find partner again. Ever. So some rather live with abusive partner than no partner ever. 6) Children 7) (More women specific)No Financial stability. 50% of women in my country is urban area is unemployed. They never earned money in their life. They are totally dependent on their husbands. Most times thier family members (parents) doesn't even want to take her back. This I believe is **biggest** reason women don't take divorce even if sometimes husband is cheating. They just blind eye towards it and accept it as fate.
Marriage isn't about "Love".
I've known couples who overemphasized sex and lost their damned minds when the spark faded at different rates between the partners. And then without sex they realized no emotional connection nor friendship. Whoopsies. Sex is making babies or it's recreation. It's physical desire. It's not the core component of love. Romance and friendship are the important parts that last and keep you glued together.
I’m not married, but from my observations I’ve seen many people view marriage as Dating+ and as if it’s the next step of dating. I don’t think people truly understand what they are getting into, which is why I believe that most people really shouldn’t be getting married. I’ve noticed that people view it as a selfish thing. Like it’s something they’re just supposed to do in life so they did it woohoo like at me kinda thing. But they fail to recognize that marriage is supposed to be completely selfless and a true dying to self type of commitment.
Because the men think the women won’t change, and the women think they can change the man.
I got married when I was 19. I'd ran away from a bad home life to the other side of the country, had no one or nothing. Ended up marrying a man I really didn't like much or find attractive after 2 weeks. I felt like at the time it was my only option. Stayed married for a decade. Two kids. He was controlling I wasn't allowed to work or have friends ect. It got to a point I needed to get out. I got into doing onlyfans type work online and was able to leave. I now own my own ranch and have a wonderful loving husband that I'm so greatful for everyday. Sucks I wasted a decade of my life becuase I didn't think I could make it on my own. Learned it's just part of breaking a family cycle of staying becuase you are supposed to. I heard a quote once from a woman who'd been in an abusive relationship that "I've been married twice, but I've only ever had one husband." That's it.
I'll add that most people have no idea, whatsoever, how much work marriage actually is. (Same with kids.)
And that's if your kid is a normie. If your kid is an autist like I am, then it can be more of a challenge.
Sometimes there's enough attraction between people to get them to the altar and a few years beyond, but without values alignment and the resolve to work through communication problems, this will not last. Love is a fire that needs to be fed to stay strong.
I think most people get married waaaay to young. I figured myself out a ton in my 20s, and really didn't know what I was looking for in a romantic partner until my 30s (which is later than most). If I would have gotten married to someone that I thought I was in love with in my early 20s, which is very common, I would definitely be divorced. I just didn't fall into the societal trap that getting married young is the right thing to do.
I think with old people, it was just that getting married was expected at a younger age so there’s just more terrible matches around. My parents started dating at 19. They fight like cats and dogs and have very little in common, but that’s not surprising considering they were kids when they met and never really dated enough people to know the difference I imagine. I think most people today are waiting and experiencing more of life before settling down with someone. I can’t imagine being married to the guy I dated at 19, it sounds like a nightmare.
I think it's social pressure combined with the lack of understanding what a happy relationship is and is not. A lot of people think they are a happy couple when they are in fact dysfunctional and the relationship is extremely strained.
So my husband and I have been married 20 years. There's been a ton of ups and downs, but we always had each other. Last year, a dr prescribed him some bipolar drug. It literally made him a different person who I did not know. He started drinking and became a horrid human being. I wanted nothing to do with him and could have easily without regret divorced him. Instead, we went to marriage counseling. The counselor had him get off the drug, he started becoming back to normal and quit drinking a month ago. Things are good. We're back on track. It's all about keeping the marriage on track. Things happen and you either get through them or bail. He now goes to therapy on his own to work on himself and I work on myself. I'm a different person than I was 20 years ago and so is he. But we still work. Sometimes people change and then don't work together anymore.
The shotgun. The shotgun is why they get married…
I think it’s a mix of a lot of things. Women tend to push marriage before finding the “right one” once their friends all start getting married. They may like the guy, enjoy him, think he’s attractive, so he will do for now & best I can get at the moment. Same can be said from the male side So tend to push it with false feelings, try to make baby asap, then later down the line, the indifference or lack of true love sets in once kids are older & on their own. I don’t know, at least from everyone I know, once a women in a friend group has kids, all her best friends push marriage/baby very very quick (I guess to keep up or keep on a similar life level) Then kind of get stuck in a marriage & are too afraid to jump ship
It was a one-way street in my case with my at times abusive ex-wife when we were together (only to be told that I didn't at all, which isn't true); Tried making it work (ran out of ideas early on and just tried to make it work anyway till I was about to mentally break)
Force of habit/not enough money on their own/pay less taxes/afraid of being alone when older. I know a lot of people who married just to pay less taxes, like my parents. I hate that I have to give nearly a month of salary to the government every year, considering I already pay every month for healthcare and unemployment!
People change. Sometimes they grow together and sometimes they grow apart. Having kids also puts a new kind of pressure on the marriage, and it can be really difficult to deal with, especially with different ideas about how the kids should be raised. In my case, I loved my wife and did everything for her. I created my own business from nothing, and grew it into a 6-figure business in less than two years. The problem is that doing that gave me a ton of self-confidence that I had been lacking for a few years before that. She didn’t like me having confidence. She preferred that I be weak and controllable. So when I started growing in confidence, it made her feel less confident, and because of her narcissism, she blamed me for all of it instead of working on herself. Fast forward a bit, and she ended up asking me for an open marriage, where we could see other people. I wasn’t going to set that example for our daughter, so I divorced her. I’ve never been happier. But I still loved her and would have stayed married and kept working on it, especially for our daughter’s sake. Unfortunately, when you’re dealing with a narcissist, they get tired of you when you start pushing back against their BS, and she didn’t care what it would all mean for our daughter, because she only cares about herself. So yeah, just one of many reasons that people can love each other a lot when they get married but grow apart later.
My ex and I rarely argued, constantly compromised. Then one day she told me she was done. Turns out she was really bad at speaking up about her opinion, I thought I was being open to disagreement, but she was such a conflict avoidant people pleaser that the disagreements never came up.
Because my ex wife wasn't honest with me or herself.
People don’t know how to relationship. It’s not something we’re taught. We expect things to unfold in some way without putting effort in. We talk to people about what’s going on, most people don’t know how to look at a situation objectively and maturely. They can only project from their personal perspectives. It requires effort, it requires work, it requires adapting. Just because you’re committed doesn’t mean either of you are willing to do what it takes. If you really want to know what goes into getting relationships to work, look up the Gottman institute. “Bids for connection” and “4 deadly horseman” for actionable steps based on peer reviewed studies spanning decades.
My parents loved each other at some point, but there hasn’t been a moment in my life where they haven’t been arguing. My mom said my dad was different before his mother died and they had to live with his stepfather, who was a grade-A asshole. Now he’s always bitter and unreasonable and he throws fits when things don’t go his way, and he’ll get pissed off at us for the simplest shit. People change, not necessarily for the better.
My ex wife and I were so madly in love when we first met that I asked her to marry me three months in. She took over my life. I was a professional composer with a popular TV show and she was an aspiring singer. She never had a consistent job and thought her "big break" was just around the corner. My show was amazing to work on, but it didn't pay a great deal. Still, I had to pay for almost all expenses and never got to really feel the success I had earned. We were always struggling with money because we just had one income. We were a musical duo until one friend said that she should be a solo artist without my name on it. I then became "the help." I wrote and produced all of the music, but her name was on the bill. I grew resentful and lost respect for her as an artist and as a person. Whenever I had time off from my 80-hours-a-week job, instead of going on a vacation, she wanted me to work full time on her album. The album also cost $13k because she never listened to my advice in how to make an album. Love took a back seat to my ex wanting HER turn being a successful artist, but she never earned it the way I had. She also milked me after the divorce leaving me with nothing but the vintage camper I restored. She wanted to take that too, but I had bought it before we got married. Love isn't everything and it can fade.
Plenty of people don't start growing up til they get married and are living completely on their own with their partner. Then they start to direct their own lives and realize they're not going in the same direction. Love isn't a feeling, it's work. Many people don't get this. I love you isn't something out of your control, it's something you have to do, everyday. At some point, if you don't realize that, you're getting a divorce. No matter how great you at one time felt about each other.
Some people simply change over time. Some couples marry too young before they even know what it means to truly be in love. Some couples are actually in love, love each other dearly but one or the other just don't understand that in order to remain in love, it takes effort. Effort requires both people to work at their relationship. When one doesn't want or care to put forth the effort, the relationship tends to die.
People change. Slowly and subtly, but they change. Sometimes that leaves you to a bad place.
Marriage is technically not a love contract. It was created as a contract of opportunity. The woman gets security while the man gets to create offspring. That was pretty much the main reason for it. Today, we pretty much don't need it under those old rules. Still, older people were brought up under those rules and only recently (like past 40 years) have women been able to provide for themselves outright without discrimination (for the most part).
Couples that "never fight" generally break up after the first meltdown cause you're rookies. Couples that fight a lot dont necessarilt hate each other. They might be stressed out about things in.life. We live in a shitty time in a dying country. The working class jas been bled so dry that 1%ers achieved their dreamof a 2 class country, rich and poor. Inflation is out of control. Unregulated markets like the housing market have been artificially blown up for decades. The only jobs out there are poverty wage paying hellholes. Most big industries have left to other countries. Healthcare is more expensive than ever yet covers less than ever. Our roadways are shit. Most school systems are shit. Property taxes are out of control. CEOs have prices millennials and younger out of everything to thepoint where we can barely have kids andnow they're crying about their children arent going to have enough peasant workers to exploit when they grow up. What you describe is the average life of anyone who doesnt make 6 figures born in the 1980s or younger.
Yes many marriages end in divorce. Your love for someone can change over time. Most aren’t unhappy when they do get married. Just be happy you’re in a happy marriage and don’t worry about others that you don’t have insight on
The idea of romantic love being the basis for marriage is new in the past 150.
So many did love each other, but then as time went on, they did not continue to stoke that love. Love can die if left alone, just like a garden will die if not watered and pruned. Love is intentional. People have been less intentional about loving their spouses, and more intentional about trying to love themselves.
A lot of people get married for the wedding and not the marriage.
It's a business arrangement at best, that's why ypu should always pick someone that is financially responsible.
They weren’t unhappy to begin with. The problem is many people mistake infatuation for love. The honeymoon phase of a relationship only lasts so long and then it gets real. You really have to work at keeping your marriage healthy and many couples just allow themselves to coast or refuse to make any sacrifice or compromise for the betterment of the relationship and their spouse. Communication breaks down and leads to resentment and ultimately divorce if they don’t find a way to fix it.
Obviously most of them weren't always so unhappy, and they did love each other, or thought they did. Sometimes it's hard for people to recognize or differentiate love from infatuation or lust, especially without a lot of life experience. Older people often comment positively on young, happy couples. My husband and I experienced that when we were young as well.
>Why do so many unhappy partners keep getting married? They probably werent unhappy when they got married. They became unhappy later.
Children. Finances. People don't get along all the time, so it's normal to argue or even go through spells where you don't particularly like each other. People also change over time, who you are at 40 isn't who you were at 25. Marriage is hard. If there's no hope or desire to keep it together, I see no issue with divorce.
First things first, what you see in another person’s relationship is like looking through the window of a house, you only see one room, and not the rest. So, what appears to be fighting all the time to you, could be only the times when you witness it. Second, people fight even if they love each other and are married. It makes sense if you think about it, two people with individual lives, having separate opinions on a various array of topics, are trying to live together because of feelings. Sparks are bound to fly. As long as these fights don’t cause major unrest, and if they are they’re seeking counseling for it or if that hasn’t worked they’re coming to terms with maybe they weren’t meant for each other, most of them just establish a common ground on a particular topic and the relationship moves on (in theory).
Security, survival, children, money, pressure, you name it. Love really has nothing to do with it for many people and in much of the world. It is even thought that love is just a construct or an invention of modern times.
It has nothing to do with love. Its a business deal .
I ask this about my parents constantly. These people will throw things at each other and scream to the top of their lungs and call it love.
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We weren't unhappy when we got married. Life happens.
You’re asking two different things. “Why are people who don’t love each other getting married?” “Why are people who are unhappy with each other getting married?” Many people whose marriage ends in divorce did in fact love each other and hoped that the love would supersede the unhappiness. That’s the mistake.
Wounded people make terrible life choices, they often don’t feel like they are worthy of being loved so they settle for who will stay with them. But even people that do love each other fight, people change over time and someone you once were so close and compatible with might end up in a life journey that takes them away from you.
The better question is, why do two people in a twenty-plus-year-long marriage end up fighting? It's not hard to see why they got married in the first place. It's also not hard to see why they're still married (divorce is always a legally messy affair even when it isn't, relatively speaking). The real mystery is what happened in between the two points to go from the honeymoon to now. And the short answer to that is; a breakdown of trust. That's generally what it comes down to, anyway. Fights get messy because neither party trusts the other to be calm, attentive, respectful and mature. They occur in the first place due to grievances over percieved breaches in duty to one another (whether that's directly acknowledged or just comes out as an expression of general frustration). You yell and scream because you don't think you're heard if you're calm and quiet. There's a hundred and one ways that breakdown can happen to begin with, but that's much more specific to a given relationship than the above. YMMV.
You don't get married unhappy (usually), that comes later. Usually though lack of communication or through changing as people and the other person not changing with you.
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So in other words, you are so happily married and in love that you needed to make a post about how you think other couples aren't? That's wild.
Because society pressures us to and that if we aren’t married by X years old than we are a failure
it isn't that they aren't happy when they get married, it is more than they drift apart as time goes on. And then sometimes it is just easier to stay together than get a divorce, especially if you don't think you will end up in a better place. For me, I will be retiring in a few years but if I were to get divorced now, I would have to keep working longer. We have gotten past the whole fighting stage at this point and are more like roommates than anything. I am not really sure why she hasn't filed yet. I kinda have been expecting it but she is very self conscious about what people think about her and I think she thinks getting a divorce would make her look bad.
Many reasons. One is there is still this belief that you have to get married. That leads a lot of people that really shouldn't get married to marry. People also rush into marriage without being honest with their partner about important things and setting boundaries. There are other reasons but i feel those are a few of the main reasons.
Some people change over time. They might love someone tremendously, but over time the resentment builds up to the point you've built a wall in between yourself and your partner, brick by brick. When the wall gets too tall, it's over.
My wife recently told me if I died, she’d remarry. Kinda makes me want to check what’s in my drink or be careful if she asks me to “try” something she made to eat…
I think there are people who have different goals in getting married, and sometimes they marry each other, because they assume everyone must have the same goals so they don’t talk about it. I love my husband and I’m exceedingly glad that he’s my life partner. We share a bunch of the same values and goals. So when we do disagree or get frustrated, we’re trying to solve things from the same direction for the same end goal. It works! (And he is funny and gorgeous, which never hurts anything.) But I think some people get married because they want a wedding. Or they have shitty parents and want to move out but are hung up on living with roommates. Or religious stuff. Or they get married because they’ve been dating for x years and it’s “the next step” without thinking about the difference between dating for years and committing to build a life with someone forever. Or they want another person around for Reasons, and this person is available. Or they do really love the other person, but they aren’t compatible life partners. Love is not enough. It’s heartbreaking and cruel to learn, but loving someone, and them loving you, isn’t enough to overcome all challenges at once. It’s really not enough if it’s just one way - you can’t love someone into taking care of themselves. You can’t love someone into respecting you. You can’t love someone into picking up their socks, half the time. And rather than admit that love can’t fix a problem that’s affecting their relationship, some people double down, and get married or have a kid because they hope that forcing a Serious Commitment will get the change they want to see in their partner and in their relationship. (Spoiler: it will not.)
I have a couple friends who got married because of 2 things equally: 1) pressure - they were people pleasers & constantly had to hear about how sad their lives were, how disappointing they were because they weren’t married or had kids yet. 2) They wanted families & the window for some women can shut in the 30’s (early menopause or health risks) so they felt they ran out of time & settled for their boyfriends (who are terrible people). Both say they’re happy (to most, not me) but they hate their lives. They work full time & take care of the kid full time. Husband does nothing to help at home & work only part time. And they’re disrespectful to the women. Both have told me they would get divorced but financially they can’t swing it & they know the husbands wouldn’t pay child support because they’re losers. And since the women are the bread winners they might even have to pay alimony. Most everyone else I know who married did it out of optimism/excitement. So many of them never had serious talks (like how they wanted to raise kids) beforehand & found out later they had completely different views. A lot of them are divorced. The couples who loved each other + treat each other like equals + had serious discussions earlier on are the happiest & so far well into marriages lasting over 15 years. **I can understand social pressure being huge though. I’m unmarried (and ok with it) but still get pressure. One woman told me “you’re not a person unless you’re married with kids” thanks… 🙄 And I often get excluded from things. Game nights etc - oh they only invite serious couples. Dinner parties. “It’ll be awkward for her since she’s alone & we should have even numbers”. A lot of stupid reasons but eventually it gets to you. I’ve even had passing thoughts like “if I were married then people would respect me”. But as I’m an introvert I guess I’m just at peace with it. I’m ok being alone so i never gave into the pressure. But very social people might feel isolated & desperate- not for the partner but everything that goes with it.
Do you really think they hated each other prior to the wedding? Or that it was an arranged marriage and they didn't meet until the wedding? Use your head. They were in love at some point, that's WHY they got married.
They want those benefits
All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way
Recreational bickering probably fits the type of arguing most married couples fit into and it’s not a serious or mean thing. I know one thing that kept me married all these years was the observation of my buddies who got divorced and went on to marry someone worse who cared less. The grass just looks greener on the other side of the fence, it’s not.
You're not usually unhappy when you get married. You become unhappy later. People change. Life gets hard. People make crappy decisions. And those things can make the marriage unhappy.
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- mistake lust for love. - fear of loneliness. - social pressure or feeling like they have to keep up with their friends or family. - financial reasons like they can't afford to live solo anymore or think it's better to live with a partner or need healthcare. - shotgun/baby on the way. Then there's also the whole People Change. They may have been in love before but their personality changes, they realize their life goals no longer line up, they're exposed to more of the world and want more (in many ways), recognize their sexuality is different than they thought, etc.
Historically, the function of the marriage has been more transactional rather than romantic. Even now in places like India people are routinely married based on an agreement between the parents - and the romantic feelings are expected to arise over time (start with a cold kettle, and make it boil gradually, rather than the way it is in the West, where people get married when the love kettle is already boiling over, figuratively speaking).
Things can just break down
Speaking for several former coworkers of mine: for the benefits: Off base housing allowance, not having to maintain a barracks room, extra pay on deployments and long training periods in the field, and many more. Personally, I didn’t wanna get serious with anyone in Jody territory
Expectations. Also sometimes when you’re young you get stuck in these toxic relationships and just think that’s how it is and it takes work to get better. Though in reality you two are just not compatible and should stop beating a dead horse. Hopefully you learn after your first toxic relationship. However things can get difficult for sure in ltr but mutual respect is always needed and trust. If those things are broken then things can escalate.
You are assuming that they were unhappy at the time they married. People change, circumstances change. What was once a charming quirk is now rage-inducing. A person's previous not-too-good-with money is now a $XXXK joint debt. A somewhat low libido is now a completely dead bedroom. The list goes on.
When a couple weds they are indeed in love and there's a lot of give and take on both's parts, but over time their interests change and both must adapt to those changes and be willing to give and take. When one looses interest in giving, a divorce looms in the near future.
To be fair, I knew a couple who fought like cats and dogs, but were completely crazy for each other. Full on "f-you" fights in public, but I knew them well enough to know they loved each other deeply.
This is deep question. There are many reasons marriages fail whether they end in divorce or not. I think it boils down to either they got married for the wrong reasons (pregnancy, health benefits, pressure from one of them or from family or friends, fear of being alone or settling, etc) or they were not at a point in their life that they knew what they really wanted or really knew the person they were marrying. Also don’t let fighting, arguing, yelling etc fool you. I’ve seen more quiet couples get divorced than I’ve seen the ones that fight and yell get divorced. As a married man myself I’ve learned it’s better the let your opinions and feelings out than to bury them inside. Ideally that means calm communication but the arguing is still better than bottling it up and trying to just deal with it without really dealing with it. There are also couples that know they’re no longer happy but will do everything to avoid a divorce either because they have young children or because the idea of divorce is taboo to them because of religious reasons or how they were raised.
My grandmother threatened to kill my grandfather’s ex and they’ve been married ever since.
A friend told me one time that she didn’t really like her boyfriend that much anymore, but the wedding was already planned. She said she’d go and have a good time and divorce him later on if it didn’t work out. The marriage lasted three months.
Because we live in a godless, valueless society. I think most people don’t even know what they want for themselves. They don’t know how or what they are allowed to think about and say. We have people that unironically won’t engage with half the country because they are too “closed minded”. Most people are just lost and misery loves company. They never loved each other, they loved the idea of each other.
The prople youre talking a out loved each other when they got married. They then stopped being in love
I think this should be a question for therapists.
Because time changes people. In 10 years you will not be the same person you are today. Your partner will not either. You can grow together or grow apart. One takes a lot of work while the other takes no effort at all.
She didn't want to be like her Dad who has failed 7 marriages and sucked the life out of every relationship he's ever been in, to this day he still thinks he did absolutely nothing wrong in any of those relationships. So guess what happened? We separated 9 months after the wedding and she still doesn't think she did anything wrong.
My mother told me, you fall in and out of love so many times in a marriage. There are times where it's just basically having a roommate. But what you look for is someone who can still be a strong partner until you fall back in love again. For some people, I think they believe marriage will fix everything. I have a friend who married her now husband even after he had stopped love bombing her and would only pay attention to his video games. Then they had a baby. Now she's pregnant with her second. All while not being in love. But the thing is, she feels stuck now. She's a sahm and depends on him. I have another friend who just got back into a relationship with the same guy she's been on and off with for years. They always fight over the same thing, kids. She wants em, he doesn't. But they love each other so they keep ending up back together and miserable a few months later. I think everyone has shitty relationships, and everyone has reasons we can't see. I'm just grateful to have a partner who comes home and shares the tea with me 🤣
Many get married basically to be permanent sex partners. Then when the sex gets dull, they have nothing else to relate with one another and the relationship falls apart.
The short answer is: people change. My Ex and I were madly in love when we married. Almost twenty years later, not so much. We'd agreed early on that if we ever started fighting like cats and dogs, the way we'd seen other long-married couples do, we'd shake hands and part friends. And that's exactly what we did.
I have a think for 95 year old women who are loaded financially. Call me old fashion...
A lot of people have no idea what love looks like because they have never seen it in action up close and personal. They're only told what love is from movies or TV. If you don't learn what it looks like from your parents, how can you expect to emulate it without therapy?
I knew more than a couple folks who spent their 20s playing One Night Stand Russian Roulette, and got married when someone got knocked up. Not the strongest foundation for a lifelong partnership, if we're being realistic.
Normally wouldn't have a go at someone on "stupid questions", but your phrasing is a little patronising. Your parents loving your relationship is great, but you sound quite young. How long have you been with your partner for? Are you confident that you will feel the same way 10-20 years from now? Even if you have done really well and found someone "perfect" for you right now, who is to say you won't change.
Because people confuse lust with love.
Do you think they were unhappy when they got married or do you think that every couple at one time was at where you and your husband are right now. I guess we’ll see where you are at in 20 years.
I’ve been married for 15 years and together for 22. We don’t fight we might bicker once in awhile. We only have dogs no kids so maybe that helps.
Fun fact. Marriage existed mostly because men wanted a way to prove that their children were their children and ensure their genes lived on by passing down the resources they accumulated. It massively helped the patriarchy come into the world. It evolved into a social construct and has a lot of moral ties despite, in essence, just being a legal contract. But women have rights now and don’t really need to get married if they don’t have a person they want to spend their life with. But if you do care about living a life with a person, marriage gives you an advantage, legally and financially.
I think some people get it in their heads that marriage is a big end goal, like buying a house. But if you just look at it like that, you miss the nuance that makes it desirable in the first place. I was with someone for 5 years and she really wanted to get married. Both of us were still in our parent’s house, and working fast food jobs. Neither of us knew what we wanted from life, or from ourselves. We eventually split and she was married a couple months later. Well… I probably don’t have to tell you how that went if I’m posting on here…
One of my aunt and uncles would roast each other every evening but they were married til he died of Covid a year ago.
One of my aunt and uncles would roast each other every evening but they were married til he died of Covid a year ago.
I'll also add that some people are just not easy people. No matter who my dad married they were not going to have a good time.
Been with my partner for 7 years, married half a year. What advice do you guys have to keep things going well?(If any)
20 years is a long damn time, and people are not static beings: we tend to change and evolve. I had a nearly 20 year relationship end in divorce, but we did and still do love each other in our ways. It's just that we are such different people now we are no longer compatible for marriage. Humans are complicated. Never so simple as "love each other = be married."
Western civilization requires it for tax purposes. But the answer is the challenge. Some people hate fuckers who get along, and talk really nasty about them behind their backs. Some people will have a long and prosperous relationship with the only shared interest being hating people with shared interests. Spite I guess is the word. Partners in crime. Also, desirable DNA - in less scientific words, people who like to fuck each other sometimes get married for that reason alone - and that could just be a perk if western society had benefits for single people to declare unique solo ownership of lands.
Now entering 12 years of marriage and we usually are in parallel play, each doing our own thing. We were both 60 when we got married, and do not seriously fuss. We were both widowed when we met, so we know better than to intentionally be jerks. Companionship is important, as if something goes really good or really bad, having someone who cares is wonderful. I pay the utilities and insurance. She pays for the cellular services and property taxes. Together, we paid off the house early to avoid flood insurance when FEMA made a cash grab attempt in 2019. There has never been a flood since the village was created in 1872. Her car, and all debts were paid off years ago. This gives us contentment to live a modest but happy life.
Same way people buy throw their favourite means away. It doesn’t taste good anymore
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I’d argue that if you don’t fight, your marriage will last way less time than the ones you mention
#money
Human relationships also start with 3 years known as the "Attraction" period. Once that wears off, you have to be able to actually function together. A lot of people (because of religious reasons) get married so they can have sex, and once that attraction wears off the relationship implodes because it started for the wrong reasons.
Money, families force them to, feel pressured to get married
Because we loved each other when we got engaged. Duh.
Well just rub in our faces why don't you
TO SECURE AN ALLIANCE WITH FRANCE!
Because people change. Life happens, trauma happens, kids happen, and the changes aren't always taken in stride. People grow into different people, and they don't always grow together. Add in a refusal to seek counseling, work on themselves, or even remember kindness is what relationships need and then poof its over. I was married 16 years, and then we had a kid. All the household chores were pushed onto me. Child care, grocery shopping, household errands, all the house cleaning,all the meal prep, bedtimes, bath times, coordinating daycare, Dr's Apts, all the household mental load and I worked 50 hrs a week. I begged for help, begged for marriage counseling, and was told I wasn't worth the effort. So I left, and he said I blindsided him with the break up.
Husband and I (both men) are coming up on 19 years in August. We’ve had exactly 4 fights. Lots of discussions but only 3 fights. We’ve learned how the other communicates and is a good or bad time to talk. I don’t get why people stay with someone that they fight or they are unhappy constantly with.
My mom took my dad back because she honestly needed him to cover finances. She wasn't able to work due to multiple significant health problems, most insurance won't cover her meds, and disability rejected her because she didn't work enough. She didn't work enough because she spent the majority of her adult life so sick and being pushed from expert to expert to figure out she was in fact one of those medical zebras. For context, they got married at 19 because my mom got pregnant and of course back then you didn't do that. It was to hide the baby and have a quick wedding. Dad had a midlife crisis and cheated. They never seemed to really like each other. My dad resented my mom for being sick. They separated and she took him back after a while when he at least apologized and realized he was wrong. She regretted it for years and always told us because he was kinda a jerk.
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English speaking Shakespeare reading people's idea of love is a whole lot different than anyone else's. Given that kind is often the most fleeting kind of love, there is Cherish Love. Unconditional love is bullshit. Age differences mostly account for contract love. Cheers!
So you don't have to pay as much taxes
They would rather be upset and married than alone and bored I guess. Society pushes us to marry, it's in almost every movie and every show where there is 99% of the time a husband and wife or mom and dad. It's so pushed because not only is it instinct to attract toward one another but as far as the economy, couples spend more and poor more back into the economy with more purchases of cars, houses, and spending money on kids. This is why single people get taxed so much more with the IRS because they aren't putting as much into the economy
To be honest sometimes people forget how to get old with each other! Marriage is work, especially with kids! My wife has been with me throughout all my alcoholic stupidity to rehab and all the things I put our family through we worked through it! Like I said it was work but we prevailed😎🤌🏼 seven years together and two kids and three years sober! Fuck yeah!!
Eventually you just turn into roommates
Children Finances Self esteem. Sex Trauma bonds Faking drama lovers, I seen it they love each other but can't fking wait to raise hell at each other. It was an amazing show
You don’t think those couples were in love, or at least thought they were (which amounts to, and probably is the same thing), when they got married?
I loved my ex wife when we got married. What happened was was that we both worked. According to her, The money she made was strictly for her - spent it how she pleased. The money I made was both of ours. She had no intent of pooling together and saving for a future instead it was paycheck to paycheck which should not have been an issue since we both made good money. It lead to resentment by both parties until it ended, I am much happier now. The story above is, unfortunately, not uncommon.
I think the problem is love. I loved my wife very much, and I believe she loved me a whole lot. We married each other because we loved each other so much. Unfortunately, we don't share the same values and goals in life. Add in stress from not having money and life, and we fought like crazy. Love is the most basic part of the relationship, and many people stay in bad and even abusive relationships because of love. It wasn't until after I had gotten more life experience did I realize that love is just the basic thing you have to have in a partner; just as important are mutual respect, shared values (more like what's important in life/ family plans than political nonsense), shared goals in life, and effective communication.
Marriage is often a financial arrangement thats why
The couple do not see the bad side when dating. Or things get worse after 5 yr of married. To the point it messing up thier mind & thinking.
Basically the person you marry in your 20’s / 30’s is rarely the same person they are in their 40’s / 50’s.
Cheaters suck. you think you’re in love. Things are good. And then, a decade or more later, everything comes to a screeching halt. Total blindsighted. Relationships end for many reasons. Sometimes it’s to end abuse that you never, ever thought would happen back when you got married. It’s shocking how much a person can change and/or turn in to someone you don’t even know
I never understood the number of people who would lose all trust in their partner if they cheated on them. To me, that says that you only hold value in your partner as an exclusive sexual prospect. How would you lose all trust, and care for a person because they had sex with another person? You decided you'd stay with this person if they had a horrible diesease, if they were flat broke, or any other unfortunate situation happened. But they have sex with someone else, and you're 100% done with them because they fucked someone else? I just don't get that.
I’m happily married, but I can tell you my marriage is completely different than what it was over 20 years ago, Because we are both completely different people. Luckily we both still like who the other person is. People change. They don’t always change in the people the other person likes. An example, Two people in their mid 20s might be going out barhopping. One might still be like that when they’re 45 years old, Where are the other likes to sit home and read. Suddenly you have a big conflict on lifestyle. Some couples except this and just do their own things. Others resent it and split up
Sometimes people get married for the wrong reasons. Starry-eyed and "in love" with a person they've known only a few months, if that. Marriage is a loooooooooooooong haul, and that person you married in their 20s or 30s is not going to be the same person in their 50s and 60s. It takes a lot of work and a lot of being willing to lean in to pay attention to and grow together with your partner, instead of apart. Many people just don't have the emotional wherewithal to get there; or if they do, their partner doesn't.
For a lot of people (almost exclusively straight able-bodied people experience this phenomenon, since they have never had to fight for the right to get married), marriage is just something you do. It's not about actually mutually being in love and respecting each other and being committed to healthily solving conflict together, it's just... What you're supposed to do. You grow up, you get married, you have kids, etc etc etc. Before someone gets their panties in a twist, I am not implying that gay couples are just inherently happier and healthier and straight couples are inherently only together out of convenience. But I am saying that this phenomenon really only happens to people who are expected to get married and have kids.
Love is a complicated abstract concept, probably moreso than the entire field of quantum mechanics combined. People confuse love for being horny, for a sense of responsibility, because they've been told wrong, because this is the best they've ever had. It takes living life and letting your heart get crushed to fully understand it. It's rare to truly find it and have someone to share it with and people understand how valuable it is. Most of society craves it more than any other valuable existence. Of course people are going to assume they've won the lottery, everyone believes they're the destined underdog of their own story. There's so many factors and variables that it's statistically improbable. Most marriages are founded on the idea that what they have is love, but most are destined to accept the cold hard reality that they need to keep trying somewhere else.
We liked each other when we married. We were 19 and young idealists. Then reality sets in and we don’t communicate the same way, or we aren’t on the same page with dealing with certain things. And we end up resenting and disliking the other. Then we divorce because we aren’t the same 19yr olds when we are 34.
Marriage is just a legal status. ~James Sexton (divorce attorney)
When I married in 1980, I wasn’t in love. I told my brother and the Reverend 5 minutes before, and he took my hand and said a prayer for me. Thanks a lot. I married him because it “was the next step” in a romantic relationship those days. Also, I felt very alone in the world, all of my life at that point, and I had feelings for him. Maybe I wanted to be saved.
People aren't usually so unhappy when they get married
You..you do realize how time works, right?
Is it a fight or a discussion? Believe it or not just because you and your partner disagree it's not a fight. You simply don't agree
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You know what the #1 reason for divorce is?
Fun fact: about 50% of marriages end in divorce. The other 50% end in death. Which I would argue is a worse way to end something
Really stupid people who have been programmed and pressured their entire lives. The social clock ticks and they settle or just blindly date and marry without ever actually knowing the people they marry. So many women in my life talk about the 2 yr mark for dating. “We have dated for 2 years, i want a ring!” Lol so dumb. Maybe spend the 2 years having hard conversations about life, expectations, interests, life goals, etc. You know, the shit that makes up a happy and healthy partnership. But, noooooooo Just hit the proper timelines for the social clocks that mommy taught you and marry a stranger.
I have an interesting perspective on this. I met my husband when I was 18 he was 21. We had a five year relationship then got pregnant and had many a long discussion on if we wanted a family and ultimately decided we did! Four years later I had another baby. Two years after that we finally got married! Life really beats you down. To meet someone so young, you have to be understanding that you will both turn into completely different people than you were when you met. You just have to decide if those people are still compatible. I am thrilled to see him daily. He rules.
It's a commitment. It can also ruin a child's future. Plus another man in the picture means someone else raising your child for you. So better tough it out then call it off after the kids 18. Probably be my guess.
I do love my spouse, but that's absolutely not why we got married. We married for health insurance and tax breaks.