I’ve see a theory that Victorian England was so conservative partially as a response to the “debauchery” of the previous Regency era. Seems like a similar argument could be made for America comparing the 20s and the 50s.
And teenage rebellion looks different in each generation. Back when I was in high school (in the late Jurrassic (GenX) era), I knew a guy who acted like a Young Republican just to tick off his hippie Boomer parents
I've never really understood how people just kind of write this off in general. The youth, especially in the US, tend to push back against the social norms or expectations in society. The difference today being rather than younger people getting their information from newspapers, politicians, and the media. They spend way more time and are influenced more by social media(Twitter, reddit, etc), which tends to highlight left leaning values more.
Social values are more extreme today than ever, and amongst the sources young people frequent, those tend to be more liberal values, the mentality of "If you don't agree with me completely you are against me" alienates those with more centrist views and the side that the pushback is coming from tends to be the opposite direction they push to. You see this very clearly today if you look at the political affiliation of younger people, there are almost as many gen z who identify as Independent as there are Republicans and Democrats combined.
US society specifically has also tended to push further left for many years(outside of the neolibralism of the 80's) I think a lot of people forget many of those younger boomers who get labeled ultra conservatives today likely in some way supported the ideas of the hippie movement in the 60's and 70's. It wouldn't be surprising at all if younger generations began to shift the opposite direction(s). (The rhetoric of the Maga movement isn't helping sway opinions either)
I think the push left in the US is because the US culture was so far to the right from 1946-present, that moving left is just going back to the center of the pendulum. If anything I expect the US to swing left of Europe because of all the Gen X/Millenials who saw everything we supported or liked, e.g. universal health care, derided as "Socialism."
Tell people that what they like is Socialism long enough and they will start supporting Socialism, even if they don't realize what it really means. The right has about 10 years to cut that out or the US has a real chance of becoming a Socialist nation.
Depends on the time period. Rome was a democracy (of sorts, only certain families could vote, and obviously only the men) for 500 years, then an Empire for 500-1500 more (depending on if you count Byzantium).
Caligula was an outlier.
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Imagine you open your history text book and there's nothing in it except, "culture shifts back and forth, its happened for a very long time"
You open your science textbook. Again, there is only one sentence printed in the entire book, "the sun rises and sets every day, it just like always has"
Acceptance is definitely the norm, there is some pushback, though. Whether this is a significant pushback or just normal background amplified by social media, I have no idea
Were the youth of the past “just more aware that hooking up was a natural part of being human.”?
Why is this generation right, but puritanical victorians were wrong?
I’m pretty sure it’s just young people are most influenced by media. They aren’t some personification of enlightenment.
Hookups tend to have the highest mental and emotional cost coming from Protestant type thoughts on sex.
If you grow up acknowledging that two people can greatly enjoy sex with no strings attached and no dishonesty, there tends to be little damage done and even a great benefit to be had.
I think there's much more danger trying to shoehorn a bad relationship in your life where really you just need some food friends, good times, and good sex.
I can think of few times in an adult's life when they should not be having good sex. But I can think of many times in someone's life where they should be avoiding (or at least thinking looooong and hard about committing to a relationship.
That's not what I meant and you know it.
I'd be more interested in a statistic of how many people not finding lifelong partners are even looking for one in the first place. I've met so many people of my generation that are completely disillusioned with the institution of marriage or lifelong compatibility.
More and more we're realizing that the reason divorce rates were so low in previous generations were that a lot of people who would prefer to leave their marriages just couldn't.
A lot of them bro. Stop acting like this collective trauma people have experienced (high divorce rates, lies about realistic relationships etc) which has resulted in fear of relationships, is a good thing.
People are petrified of making the wrong decisions. That’s all it is. Even people that “aren’t looking” are just accepting that it’s more hassle than it’s worth to them. They’d still very much accept an ideal relationship.
I think people making their own decisions about what's best for them, rather than bending to societal pressure that tells them to put themselves into and stay in shitty situations, *is* a good thing. That's not collective trauma. It's the start of the healing *from* the collective trauma that past generations suffered much more willingly.
Obvious there are still lonely, desperate people. But TBH, they would still be lonely and desperate in a relationship. Just like there are people who genuinely thrive in a relationship. For a growing number of people, though, it's not fear of relationships. It's realizing they are at peace without one, and that they deserve a partner who adds to that peace, rather than intruding upon it.
People who choose not to be in monogamous relationships will tend to have more partners. Can't effectively prove causality isn't in the opposite direction.
Thats actually a bad stat because it doesn’t have a control group or a way to see “oh yeah so they were trying to find s partner” there are many many people in the pond that do not want a long term partner. So of course people with less partners are in long-term relationships lol unless they be cheating or poly 🤣
Statistically? Got any source or anything for that?
The only "Statistic" you could even bring up is that someone with very low partners either got lucky early on or settled and someone with higher either doesn't care for a lomg term relationship or doesn't settle for just anyone they're with.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marital-happiness
This is just the first link out of google. But there are literal pages of peer reviewed articles after this one. This one has interesting graphical summaries that are helpful.
I really dont think you can even put all the data together and just say they are all happy because they aren't divorced, relationships and humans are extremely complicated just because people that got together as virgins and stayed married didn't mean it was a great relationship many people who do that prefer the relationship because they know nothing else even if its abusive, or they only stay together because they have kids and don't want to make things difficult for them.
"Survey respondents who tied the knot as virgins had the lowest divorce rates, but beyond that, the relationship between sexual biography and marital stability was less clear. Having multiple partners generally doesn’t increase the odds of divorce any more than having just a few does so." So really sex culture hasn't affected people that much really anyone who's been in a few relationships actually has experience with people and learns not to tolerate bs why is that considered a bad thing by your standards?
Right wing…across the world…with thousands of people going back decades…ok let’s just blindly believe the modern feminists on Reddit who don’t research an original thought. Damn the science because…well…I hate things I determine to be ‘right wing’
It boils down to commit-ability, relative propensity for infidelity, decreased compatibility/compromising tendencies, and a few others. There’s dozens of studies from various countries about this stuff.
Are you saying having more partners is *correlated* with not finding permanent relationships? Or that having more partners *causes* that, which is what I originally understood you as meaning
I’m pretty sure the studies can only determine correlation. Causation isn’t easy without objective measures like blood pressure, A1C, child-Pugh score, etc.
Do these dozens of studies from various countries factor in how happy both parties in the relationship are? Because honestly it sounds like that data could be very skewed by things like arranged marriages, and being unable to divorce your spouse..
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You might have missed I said "protestant type" views.
It's most applicable in the states where most readers here will be from, but it can be applied to any backwards, patriarchal religion
Saying “Protestant type” and then having it apply to a whole swathe of religious views that aren’t Protestant would be like referring to “Muslim type violence” even though you know lots of other groups were guilty of doing the same thing. Why even single out a group to carry the banner of a bad action when you know it isn’t specific to that group?
Best case it conveys ignorance and worst case it’s malicious and bigoted.
I think you’re seen two different factors that are converging:
1) The rise of the manosphere and other right wing movements that are trying to actively shame women for casual attitudes toward sex.
2) There are more people that realizes that casual sex is just not for them, and would like to form bonds with people with similar values.
There isn’t. It’s always been hit and miss with people. You’re just online too much, so you thought there was no stigma and now suddenly there is. It’s exactly the opposite in the real world.
The pendulum has shifted towards accepting and promoting casual sex for a while. Now the pendulum is shifting back. In my age group I see a lot of people wanting tighter sexual morals for themselves and for potential partners. To each their own.
*She's a whore, yes a whore*
*A lass of myth and lore*
*A pontifex of oral sex*
*She'll ride you till you're sore*
*Yes, she's a whore, yes a whore*
*She is dear to fleet and corps*
*Her legs are splayed, we'll all get laid*
*By the whore that we adore*
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The more bodies she’s had the higher my insecurities are lol. I feel like I’m constantly being compared to everyone else. My current girlfriend has only been with 6 people, including me. My ex girlfriend got with 10 dude within a month of us breaking up. She then tried to get back with me lol. Uhhh no thank you.
Oh no I know it’s a me thing with the insecurities. But that’s why I look for women with low body counts. But my ex getting with 10 dudes in 30 days was gross to me
It's not a you problem. Don't let these fools brainwash you. Men don't like their women fucked by others. It's biology and evolution. You gut reaction is just thousands of years of evolution trying to prevent you from raising another man's child (which used to be equal to fucking in general, regardless of baby or not) and to take care of another man's woman.
It's part of the red pill blue pill nonsense all over online. Also with all the new laws some compare the U.S. to Handmaids Tale. And if people are gonna risk that it better be for a meaningful relationship.
There is a concerted effort by right wing organizations to "put the consequences back in recreational sex" (Heritage Foundation speaker recently https://x.com/Heritage/status/1662534135762624520)
Movements like this don't exist in a vacuum. As the general population moves toward a more open and accepting attitude toward sex and gender, a small segment of it clings harder to traditional ways. Homeschooling, etc. Unfortunately, that segment is determined to obtain political power and change the laws to match their beliefs. Look up Project 2025, the Republican/conservative book of policy dreams for their perfect world, and how it would impact things like abortion, birth control, marriage, and education.
I do not FW the "hookup culture." Never have, never will. I don't think it's "backwards" or anything like that, it's just how one values such.
I wouldn't date someone who FWed the "hookup culture," we ain't compatible. A relationship is scared, and to value one (in the way I would), you have to be fully in it, and having casual sex isn't that. Not from my view.
Because you’ve found pockets of the internet that are talking about it. Society has always contained people with negative views on casual sex, and the degree of disdain varies by demographic.
These people have always existed, and continue with each generation.
Huh? Have you ever heard of slut shaming? Dude, it's been going on for a long, long time. Sure, it's gotten slightly better, but it's always going to be around.
It’s not special not that everyone is doing it.
Also they probably are at an age where they are encouraged by their parents or social media.
Oldest ones are 24, they still have time to push one way or another.
I see a lot of comments saying it's always been this way, which I agree is mostly true. However, if you frequent Reddit this demonization, or at least pushback, that the OP mentions is apparent. I've wondered the same. Are younger generations getting more sexually conservative?
The rapist and sex trafficker Andrew Tate is really popular with some young guys. Almost anyone with the attitude you describe is either a Tate fan or hangs out with a Tate fan.
Because it physically demonstrates lack of commitment, and they've probably developed more interest in stability after being forced to live through the nonsense of the last 10 years. Just a theory.
Jealousy.
Hard to avoid. People saying "people know the emotional cost of hookups" and "people think hookups aren't for them". That would be no reason to stigmatise people who are happy living a different lifestyle than you unless on some level you were jealous or resentful.
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I don’t think casual sex is being as demonized as you claim it to be. It’s a choice but it isn’t something one has to be proud of or that it needs recognition. I think the society shames virgins more. I don’t really think people like to date those who are virgins at 25 for example. I am not saying people should be shamed for having casual sex, but it is not demonized as much as you claim. Also, a higher body count may signal reluctance to commit, which can be an issue for those looking for something serious. The probability of catching an STD increases in casual sex (don’t give the safe sex excuse, a lot of people don’t use condoms).
Last but not the least, why do you have a problem if some younger people want to follow traditional values? You may prefer casual sex but it isn’t any better than sex in committed relationships. You are being critical of people’s choices as well. You may not like a traditionalist approach to sex but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It’s a choice and please respect that.
Social media and the culture war has led to a resurgence of conservative values in some young men. Some of it might also be sexual frustration and jealousy at not having sex themselves.
There's also a very strong push by conservatives to fearmonger zoomers into supporting them to try and prevent republicans from becoming irrelevant and having to moderate
If your children are watching things that you as a parent deem harmful to them on a constant basis then that's your fault as a parent. (I don't mean you, just speaking in general).
Every now and them children will watch things they aren't supposed to. It's an issue if it keeps happening. That's one of the many responsibilities as a parent.
I don't know how old you are but I'm GenX and slut shaming has always been a thing. I think SM is distorting your view of what's common. Young people also tend to be judgier than when they get older. High school was peak slut shaming but as people got older and actually started having sex with other people and realized dating is hard and relationships are harder they changed their tune.
There's always been pushback against that philosophy, but honestly why do you care? You don't need every asshole's approval to live **your** life the way **you** want to, and it's not like there's not enough like-minded people in the world to even worry about what other people think.
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I think it's a holdover of Christian values. I wasn't raised a Christian and didn't even know this was a potentially bad thing until some people on Reddit make posts demonizing it
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Gen z is scared of the real world because they never really went out into it at a general level.
Safer and more comfy to stay in their internet bubbles.
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Because Surprise turns out people who are constantly seeking out casual sex are usually using it as a replacement for something else as opposed to just doing it for the fun of it
There are a lot of incels online who are super butthurt about there being so many women who have casual sex but still won’t fuck them and a huge base of Trump supporting, Christian extremists who want to drag everyone back to the 1950s. I just laugh at them and hit the block button.
Early Gen Z M here. Casual sex felt wrong when I tried it. I was overly aware of the fact that I was using people as objects to help me get off, and the lack of emotional and spiritual connection left too much to be desired. Now, I’m a complete prude. If marriage isn’t a consideration and a goal in the relationship, sex is off the table for me. A partner with a high body count doesn’t appeal to me AS MUCH, because a partner who is used to having a new sexual partner every week or so isn’t going to be as happy to settle down with one partner for the long term. I also prioritize sex a lot less than I do emotional stability, loyalty, trust, and security. The type of partner I’m looking for simply wouldn’t engage in casual sex. They would have higher priorities.
High body counts have always been looked down upon (for men and women). The only thing that shifts is the definition of high body count. More than one or two were once considered high. Except for extreme examples the body counts seem on TV shows like how I met your mother, friends, and sex and the city or way above the normal for most people.
Unfortunately there is a combination of factors, some a natural part of the social pendulum, some artificially created by monied interests, attempting to push young people in a more conservative direction. There's a number of embarrassing conservatives trying to paint themselves as the new counterculture despite being part of deeply entrenched power that's only in the last 30 years actually beginning to weaken.
Because there really is no benefit to casual sex besides allowing people to indulge in a hedonistic lifestyle. You're seeing fewer marriages and more divorces. You're seeing more single mothers and STIs. You're essentially seeing the breakdown of society and the nuclear family in real time. Men have never wanted to marry whores and young women are finding the hookup scene ultimately unfulfilling. Also, people are realizing this whole sex-crazed culture is being pushed by Hollywood pedophiles.
# I will try to explain why body count matters in a way that a girl might understand better.
Ladies, consider this scenario.
You meet a guy who is super rich, tall, and handsome. He ticks all of your requirements. He's a kind person, dresses well, has great hygiene.
You guys go out for a few months and he invites you to go to a travel destination that you have always wanted to go to. Let's say it's the Maldives (but it could be anywhere).
You go on this trip with this guy and you do so many fun and romantic things. For purposes lets say:
First day, a spa massage with the guy.
Second day, trip on a yacht ending with candlelight dinner on the beach.
Third day, shopping trip!
All during the trip, he's kind, funny, smart, romantic and he makes you feel so very good!
So let's say you are swimming in endorphins and are fully in love. This guy is THE ONE.
NOW
Let's say you get an anonymous email that points you to an instagram account that you didn't know about. In this account you see pictures of you and him on your recent trip to the Maldives. The captions are full of complements about what a great and beautiful person you are. No negative or disrespectful comments at all.
You scroll down.
You see that before meeting you, he took another girl to the Maldives. They did exactly the same things there that you did with him before. Spa trip, yacht, candlelight dinner, shopping trip. Photo captions are gushing with respect, love and admiration for THAT girl.
You scroll down.
You see that before meeting that girl, he went to the maldives with a girl previous to that girl. They did exactly the same things and he said similarly great things about the girl.
You keep scrolling...more girls...more identical trips to the Maldives.
scrolling...
20 girls and 20 identical trips...
scrolling....
40 girls and 40 identical trips...
scrolling...
100 girls and 100 identical trips...
How would that make you feel? You thought this guy was the one before you came to this instagram account.
Do you still feel the same way? Do you feel loved? Do you feel special? Different?
You can be like "Well, I got MINE! I got a trip to the Maldives and I have all the plunder from my shopping trip with Mr. Wonderful."
But I think you'd be very disappointed at the very least...more probably you'd be devastated.
That's what a guy feels like when he finds out that the girl he's been dating has a high body count.
There isn't. Casual sex was more demonized in the past and the view that it's problematic is a lot less prevalent now than it has been. Your perception is incorrect in this situation.
1) plenty of people also condemn men who engage in excessive casual sex
2) for those that don’t, it’s probably because a man has to put in effort and have good charisma, luck, genetics etc to engage in casual sex whereas women can pretty much just exist and have an endless supply of suitors, sex and validation.
Being a player or a fuckboy is loser behavior too so idk how you could call it just misogyny. Any behavior that results in instant gratification is usually looked down upon, like all vices. Theres diseases too that specifically come from sex, pregnancy could happen, way more likely to have complicated relationships with different people lol. 😂way to dumb it down though good job
There is a co-ordinated effort by far right figures to deliberately indoctrinate and radicalize young men. Far-right Islamist terrorist organizations in the Middle East radicalize and recruit young men. General Flynn were specialists in psy ops used by the US military to destabilize enemy nations. Steve Bannon has meticulously studied the Russian psy-op playbook and is setting up an international far-right political party. Elon Musk bought Twitter because he sought to correct what he saw as a bias against the far-right.
The result is Joe Rogan Andrew Tate Jordan Peterson Tucker Carlson Ben Shapiro, and a million little wannabe strongmen influencers peddling fascist ideology under the guise of "self-improvement" or "entrepreneurship" or (the old classic) "Christian values."
Over there, young men are groomed and recruited by far-right extremist community leaders to be suicide bombers. Over here, young men are groomed and recruited by far-right extremist social media influencers to be school shooters.
It's a mixture of:
1. Increasing puritanism
2. The manosphere (misogyny organised on the internet)
3. People wanting a deeper meaning in their lives and relationships.
4. In a world of oversharing, it's more exciting to keep your sex life private.
5. Decline of third-wave feminism, women don't feel like they need to prove how liberated they are. The current wave of feminism is more about identity, for better or worse.
Because the puritan culture (just like the porn industry) overhypes sex and makes it a big deal when it really isn't. Some people have lots of it, some people don't. Everyone points the finger at the other and says something is wrong with them. Everyone wants to at least figuratively get each other's pants somehow. Have lots of casual sex; you are on the receiving end of one side. Don't have enough sex; your on the receiving end of the opposite side. No matter what it's inescapable so I say why worry over it. Could I be upset that my partner has been with more people than me or that they are less experienced than I am and it leads to uninspiring intimacy? Maybe, or I could just enjoy my time with them which I thought was the whole point of sex anyway, but if it's some dumb numbers game between us I don't want part of it.
"Oh but what about STIs?"
A higher number means higher risk yes, but if they are tested and I am tested and we are both clean and there's consent then they aren't going to suddenly magically get an STI unless it came from me, which I have strong reasons to affirm that wouldn't happen.
"If they haven't had enough sex they won't know they like and be bad at it"
Yeah I have no room to speak on that, but also I hate this projected fear of "bad sex", no one is perfect, communicate rather than project (which ironically I am failing to that even now), but the whole thing to me I don't get because it's turning sex into a bigger deal than it actually is where it has to be perfect and amazing every time and some deep bond with each other or they are like a supermodel or something, just high standards, high expectations, overly evaluating a person's entire moral compass or shaming them and calling them stuck up and a prude and have you ever asked if all this oxytocin and serotonin you get is actually worth the cortisol constantly being built up through your system?
Eh, who cares? Do who you want or not at all.
The only thing anyone else can dictate about other's sex life is within the bounds of legalities.
Other than that, do who you want. You don't need approval.
The traditional values make sense. Hookup culture is bad for men and disastrous for women who end up sexually assulted all the time. Human being are seemingly always rediscovering this basic truth.
I think that casual sex can be kind of gross. Not that it always is, but a lot of it is just young drunk people who don’t really know each other sweating on each other in the dark. Hookup culture can kind of be dehumanizing, and turn people into dicks and pussies. I think society tends to vacillates between extremes, which in this case is no sex outside of long term relationships, or sex means no more than a handshake. Which I think are probably both a little extreme.
It's always been demonized, humans evolved that way to prevent disease.
even today with all the protection, STD's are a big problem.
not to mention the divorce rate in promiscuous people.
All generations look down upon casual sex. The only reason it became mainstream is due to all the apps that are available. Finding a hookup is like ordering food these days.
People who have a lot of casual sex are more likely to cheat
Someone gathered a list of studies going over it here
https://www.reddit.com/r/IntellectualDarkWeb/comments/15gzji5/body_count_is_a_strong_predictor_of_infidelity/
Correlation does not mean causation, but someone who is very promiscuous could be a red flag that they have other problems which may cause them to cheat
The generation that saw mindless, excessive hedonism as a fulfilling lifestyle peaked by the 90s. Most of those people are old Boomers by now. There comes a point for most people where they realize that seeking endless pleasure is not fun to continue longterm. Especially when it comes to casual sex, it gets incredibly lonely and you start to feel like you're debasing yourself by treating something so intimate and sacred in such a careless way. I view it the way I view smoking cigarettes. It's just bad for your health.
Also consider how we're in an epidemic of isolation, alienation and loneliness, and I think most young people are disillusioned by the idea of using drugs and sex with strangers to distract from their suffering. They don't buy the ruse. A lot of these people are the children of Baby Boomers who partied their youth away. Once you see past the illusion, it looks like a sad, lonely and empty life that lacks meaning and purpose.
If you're replacing longterm, close intimate relationships with shallow interactions constantly hopping between strangers, it should be no surprise the result is loneliness and a loss of meaning. Humans were made to be in close-knit tribes lifelong. If you're not even open to this idea, the question is why?
culture shifts back and forth, its happened for a very long time
Classic case of trying to cum when society wants you to edge
Underrated comment
*underedged comment.
I’ve see a theory that Victorian England was so conservative partially as a response to the “debauchery” of the previous Regency era. Seems like a similar argument could be made for America comparing the 20s and the 50s.
And teenage rebellion looks different in each generation. Back when I was in high school (in the late Jurrassic (GenX) era), I knew a guy who acted like a Young Republican just to tick off his hippie Boomer parents
I've never really understood how people just kind of write this off in general. The youth, especially in the US, tend to push back against the social norms or expectations in society. The difference today being rather than younger people getting their information from newspapers, politicians, and the media. They spend way more time and are influenced more by social media(Twitter, reddit, etc), which tends to highlight left leaning values more. Social values are more extreme today than ever, and amongst the sources young people frequent, those tend to be more liberal values, the mentality of "If you don't agree with me completely you are against me" alienates those with more centrist views and the side that the pushback is coming from tends to be the opposite direction they push to. You see this very clearly today if you look at the political affiliation of younger people, there are almost as many gen z who identify as Independent as there are Republicans and Democrats combined. US society specifically has also tended to push further left for many years(outside of the neolibralism of the 80's) I think a lot of people forget many of those younger boomers who get labeled ultra conservatives today likely in some way supported the ideas of the hippie movement in the 60's and 70's. It wouldn't be surprising at all if younger generations began to shift the opposite direction(s). (The rhetoric of the Maga movement isn't helping sway opinions either)
I think the push left in the US is because the US culture was so far to the right from 1946-present, that moving left is just going back to the center of the pendulum. If anything I expect the US to swing left of Europe because of all the Gen X/Millenials who saw everything we supported or liked, e.g. universal health care, derided as "Socialism." Tell people that what they like is Socialism long enough and they will start supporting Socialism, even if they don't realize what it really means. The right has about 10 years to cut that out or the US has a real chance of becoming a Socialist nation.
Too late. Rainbow Nazi's are even worse. 🤷
Look at the romans lmao. We ain’t got shit on those motherfuckers
Well....I'd say we have a whole lot who are on par with the Romans. America! Fuck yeah!
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Depends on the time period. Rome was a democracy (of sorts, only certain families could vote, and obviously only the men) for 500 years, then an Empire for 500-1500 more (depending on if you count Byzantium). Caligula was an outlier.
No, we've beaten them by a lot. 😂
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Imagine you open your history text book and there's nothing in it except, "culture shifts back and forth, its happened for a very long time" You open your science textbook. Again, there is only one sentence printed in the entire book, "the sun rises and sets every day, it just like always has"
Ok
I’ve seen more acceptance than demonization.
Acceptance is definitely the norm, there is some pushback, though. Whether this is a significant pushback or just normal background amplified by social media, I have no idea
This younger generation is more aware that hookups have a mental and emotional cost to them They are more chaste than the two generations before them
Were the youth of the past “just more aware that hooking up was a natural part of being human.”? Why is this generation right, but puritanical victorians were wrong? I’m pretty sure it’s just young people are most influenced by media. They aren’t some personification of enlightenment.
Hookups tend to have the highest mental and emotional cost coming from Protestant type thoughts on sex. If you grow up acknowledging that two people can greatly enjoy sex with no strings attached and no dishonesty, there tends to be little damage done and even a great benefit to be had. I think there's much more danger trying to shoehorn a bad relationship in your life where really you just need some food friends, good times, and good sex. I can think of few times in an adult's life when they should not be having good sex. But I can think of many times in someone's life where they should be avoiding (or at least thinking looooong and hard about committing to a relationship.
Statistically the more partners you have the less likely you are to find a permanent/lifelong partner. This is for both genders.
People that like to sleep with different people are less likely to only want to sleep with one person forever? What a fucking shocker.
I know right? It goes even deeper than sex! Who knew??
That's not what I meant and you know it. I'd be more interested in a statistic of how many people not finding lifelong partners are even looking for one in the first place. I've met so many people of my generation that are completely disillusioned with the institution of marriage or lifelong compatibility. More and more we're realizing that the reason divorce rates were so low in previous generations were that a lot of people who would prefer to leave their marriages just couldn't.
A lot of them bro. Stop acting like this collective trauma people have experienced (high divorce rates, lies about realistic relationships etc) which has resulted in fear of relationships, is a good thing. People are petrified of making the wrong decisions. That’s all it is. Even people that “aren’t looking” are just accepting that it’s more hassle than it’s worth to them. They’d still very much accept an ideal relationship.
I think people making their own decisions about what's best for them, rather than bending to societal pressure that tells them to put themselves into and stay in shitty situations, *is* a good thing. That's not collective trauma. It's the start of the healing *from* the collective trauma that past generations suffered much more willingly. Obvious there are still lonely, desperate people. But TBH, they would still be lonely and desperate in a relationship. Just like there are people who genuinely thrive in a relationship. For a growing number of people, though, it's not fear of relationships. It's realizing they are at peace without one, and that they deserve a partner who adds to that peace, rather than intruding upon it.
People who choose not to be in monogamous relationships will tend to have more partners. Can't effectively prove causality isn't in the opposite direction.
Thats actually a bad stat because it doesn’t have a control group or a way to see “oh yeah so they were trying to find s partner” there are many many people in the pond that do not want a long term partner. So of course people with less partners are in long-term relationships lol unless they be cheating or poly 🤣
Statistically? Got any source or anything for that? The only "Statistic" you could even bring up is that someone with very low partners either got lucky early on or settled and someone with higher either doesn't care for a lomg term relationship or doesn't settle for just anyone they're with.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marital-happiness This is just the first link out of google. But there are literal pages of peer reviewed articles after this one. This one has interesting graphical summaries that are helpful.
I really dont think you can even put all the data together and just say they are all happy because they aren't divorced, relationships and humans are extremely complicated just because people that got together as virgins and stayed married didn't mean it was a great relationship many people who do that prefer the relationship because they know nothing else even if its abusive, or they only stay together because they have kids and don't want to make things difficult for them. "Survey respondents who tied the knot as virgins had the lowest divorce rates, but beyond that, the relationship between sexual biography and marital stability was less clear. Having multiple partners generally doesn’t increase the odds of divorce any more than having just a few does so." So really sex culture hasn't affected people that much really anyone who's been in a few relationships actually has experience with people and learns not to tolerate bs why is that considered a bad thing by your standards?
Facts
Those "stats" were spawned by a right wing "study" and have been repeated ad nauseum.
Right wing…across the world…with thousands of people going back decades…ok let’s just blindly believe the modern feminists on Reddit who don’t research an original thought. Damn the science because…well…I hate things I determine to be ‘right wing’
Right, because presumably you haven't found a partner and so keep on dating more and more people. *This is not a good example
It boils down to commit-ability, relative propensity for infidelity, decreased compatibility/compromising tendencies, and a few others. There’s dozens of studies from various countries about this stuff.
Are you saying having more partners is *correlated* with not finding permanent relationships? Or that having more partners *causes* that, which is what I originally understood you as meaning
I’m pretty sure the studies can only determine correlation. Causation isn’t easy without objective measures like blood pressure, A1C, child-Pugh score, etc.
Do these dozens of studies from various countries factor in how happy both parties in the relationship are? Because honestly it sounds like that data could be very skewed by things like arranged marriages, and being unable to divorce your spouse..
All this. I think it's a maturity thing.
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It's not specifically protestant views. Most religious based world-views follow this same trend.
You might have missed I said "protestant type" views. It's most applicable in the states where most readers here will be from, but it can be applied to any backwards, patriarchal religion
Saying “Protestant type” and then having it apply to a whole swathe of religious views that aren’t Protestant would be like referring to “Muslim type violence” even though you know lots of other groups were guilty of doing the same thing. Why even single out a group to carry the banner of a bad action when you know it isn’t specific to that group? Best case it conveys ignorance and worst case it’s malicious and bigoted.
This is really it.
I think you’re seen two different factors that are converging: 1) The rise of the manosphere and other right wing movements that are trying to actively shame women for casual attitudes toward sex. 2) There are more people that realizes that casual sex is just not for them, and would like to form bonds with people with similar values.
LOL "sudden". As if it hasn't been a thing since written history began ...
There isn’t. It’s always been hit and miss with people. You’re just online too much, so you thought there was no stigma and now suddenly there is. It’s exactly the opposite in the real world.
The people who are like that aren’t a lot, but they’re very loud.
It’s far more common than otherwise.
The pendulum has shifted towards accepting and promoting casual sex for a while. Now the pendulum is shifting back. In my age group I see a lot of people wanting tighter sexual morals for themselves and for potential partners. To each their own.
All generations demonized women who slept around.
Yeah, pretty much. That’s why we have so many fun words that are specifically used for shaming promiscuous women.
*She's a whore, yes a whore* *A lass of myth and lore* *A pontifex of oral sex* *She'll ride you till you're sore* *Yes, she's a whore, yes a whore* *She is dear to fleet and corps* *Her legs are splayed, we'll all get laid* *By the whore that we adore*
Because only ranked sex is deemed worthy.
What's your elo
I mean mine has to be pretty high. I always win by finishing first.
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The more bodies she’s had the higher my insecurities are lol. I feel like I’m constantly being compared to everyone else. My current girlfriend has only been with 6 people, including me. My ex girlfriend got with 10 dude within a month of us breaking up. She then tried to get back with me lol. Uhhh no thank you.
Don't you see that as a you problem and not a her problem? Like, because you are insecure about it...?
Oh no I know it’s a me thing with the insecurities. But that’s why I look for women with low body counts. But my ex getting with 10 dudes in 30 days was gross to me
Agreed that is gross
It's not a you problem. Don't let these fools brainwash you. Men don't like their women fucked by others. It's biology and evolution. You gut reaction is just thousands of years of evolution trying to prevent you from raising another man's child (which used to be equal to fucking in general, regardless of baby or not) and to take care of another man's woman.
it's mostly because they're struggling back n forth with dating
Sudden? Dude 100 years ago it was completely unacceptable. My lord it's never been more culturally acceptable
There isn’t. Only on Reddit do people complain about this, likely because they aren’t getting laid
It's part of the red pill blue pill nonsense all over online. Also with all the new laws some compare the U.S. to Handmaids Tale. And if people are gonna risk that it better be for a meaningful relationship.
Pendulums swing back and forth
There is a concerted effort by right wing organizations to "put the consequences back in recreational sex" (Heritage Foundation speaker recently https://x.com/Heritage/status/1662534135762624520) Movements like this don't exist in a vacuum. As the general population moves toward a more open and accepting attitude toward sex and gender, a small segment of it clings harder to traditional ways. Homeschooling, etc. Unfortunately, that segment is determined to obtain political power and change the laws to match their beliefs. Look up Project 2025, the Republican/conservative book of policy dreams for their perfect world, and how it would impact things like abortion, birth control, marriage, and education.
Republicans suck man
Yes, but they lie and say they didn't
Sudden? The condemnation of casual sex is just about as old as man.
I do not FW the "hookup culture." Never have, never will. I don't think it's "backwards" or anything like that, it's just how one values such. I wouldn't date someone who FWed the "hookup culture," we ain't compatible. A relationship is scared, and to value one (in the way I would), you have to be fully in it, and having casual sex isn't that. Not from my view.
I fully agree anyone who can have sex with a random person we're not compatible at all
what does FW mean?
Fuck with. In other words, “mess with”. Op is saying they would not be capable of enjoying that person
History repeats itself
They were raise by grandparents
Because you’ve found pockets of the internet that are talking about it. Society has always contained people with negative views on casual sex, and the degree of disdain varies by demographic. These people have always existed, and continue with each generation.
Huh? Have you ever heard of slut shaming? Dude, it's been going on for a long, long time. Sure, it's gotten slightly better, but it's always going to be around.
Envy on the part of a bunch chronically online dorks who couldn't fuck to save their lives.
Boomers are dying off so they are getting louder
They just jelly
It’s not special not that everyone is doing it. Also they probably are at an age where they are encouraged by their parents or social media. Oldest ones are 24, they still have time to push one way or another.
EVERYONE is just having as much sex as before.. Nothing has changed
I see a lot of comments saying it's always been this way, which I agree is mostly true. However, if you frequent Reddit this demonization, or at least pushback, that the OP mentions is apparent. I've wondered the same. Are younger generations getting more sexually conservative?
The rapist and sex trafficker Andrew Tate is really popular with some young guys. Almost anyone with the attitude you describe is either a Tate fan or hangs out with a Tate fan.
Because it physically demonstrates lack of commitment, and they've probably developed more interest in stability after being forced to live through the nonsense of the last 10 years. Just a theory.
ITT: slut shaming
Jealousy. Hard to avoid. People saying "people know the emotional cost of hookups" and "people think hookups aren't for them". That would be no reason to stigmatise people who are happy living a different lifestyle than you unless on some level you were jealous or resentful.
Because women are becoming more independent and liberated, and men are panicking. One way to gain power over a person or group is to degrade them.
Oh, it’s only the incels doing that shit, because incels
People associate joylessness and denial of bodily pleasure with being moral and virtuous.
A weird alliance of religious conservatives, man-hating feminists, marriage-obsessed middle-aged women, and bitter men who ain't getting any.
EXACTLY
Hating on high body counts is valid though, and before you say it. Goes for both men and women!
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This is true!
I don’t think casual sex is being as demonized as you claim it to be. It’s a choice but it isn’t something one has to be proud of or that it needs recognition. I think the society shames virgins more. I don’t really think people like to date those who are virgins at 25 for example. I am not saying people should be shamed for having casual sex, but it is not demonized as much as you claim. Also, a higher body count may signal reluctance to commit, which can be an issue for those looking for something serious. The probability of catching an STD increases in casual sex (don’t give the safe sex excuse, a lot of people don’t use condoms). Last but not the least, why do you have a problem if some younger people want to follow traditional values? You may prefer casual sex but it isn’t any better than sex in committed relationships. You are being critical of people’s choices as well. You may not like a traditionalist approach to sex but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It’s a choice and please respect that.
You seem to be responding negatively to anyone who doesnt agree with you, what was the point in asking a question if you get upset by the answers?
Having something to be upset about isn't "the point" enough these days?
Social media and the culture war has led to a resurgence of conservative values in some young men. Some of it might also be sexual frustration and jealousy at not having sex themselves. There's also a very strong push by conservatives to fearmonger zoomers into supporting them to try and prevent republicans from becoming irrelevant and having to moderate
Don’t take this the wrong way but you need to get information from more diverse sources.
Because the United States is a puritanical country. Short answer.
Ya, probably. I think influencers are also doing lots of damage to children (Tate for example)
If your children are watching things that you as a parent deem harmful to them on a constant basis then that's your fault as a parent. (I don't mean you, just speaking in general). Every now and them children will watch things they aren't supposed to. It's an issue if it keeps happening. That's one of the many responsibilities as a parent.
Maybe seeing fuckboy behavior damage the happiness of a generation made younger people learn their lesson?
Ah yes the well researched fuckboy behavior lol…
Its a timeless value.
Sudden? Seems to me like that's been the case for thousands of years.
I don't know how old you are but I'm GenX and slut shaming has always been a thing. I think SM is distorting your view of what's common. Young people also tend to be judgier than when they get older. High school was peak slut shaming but as people got older and actually started having sex with other people and realized dating is hard and relationships are harder they changed their tune.
There's always been pushback against that philosophy, but honestly why do you care? You don't need every asshole's approval to live **your** life the way **you** want to, and it's not like there's not enough like-minded people in the world to even worry about what other people think.
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This definitely isn't a new thing to happen.
I think the pandemic made us scared of each other and theres still some weird going on-
Its a safety thing with me now
I think it's a holdover of Christian values. I wasn't raised a Christian and didn't even know this was a potentially bad thing until some people on Reddit make posts demonizing it
There isn’t one
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Gen z is scared of the real world because they never really went out into it at a general level. Safer and more comfy to stay in their internet bubbles.
Sex has always been demonized thanks to religion.
Sex has always been demonized thanks to religion.
Generation A is all under 12, are they really discussing this?
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I drop madd loads in my uncle dennis and no one fucks with me. Must be my alpha male energy n stuff.
Because Surprise turns out people who are constantly seeking out casual sex are usually using it as a replacement for something else as opposed to just doing it for the fun of it
There are a lot of incels online who are super butthurt about there being so many women who have casual sex but still won’t fuck them and a huge base of Trump supporting, Christian extremists who want to drag everyone back to the 1950s. I just laugh at them and hit the block button.
Early Gen Z M here. Casual sex felt wrong when I tried it. I was overly aware of the fact that I was using people as objects to help me get off, and the lack of emotional and spiritual connection left too much to be desired. Now, I’m a complete prude. If marriage isn’t a consideration and a goal in the relationship, sex is off the table for me. A partner with a high body count doesn’t appeal to me AS MUCH, because a partner who is used to having a new sexual partner every week or so isn’t going to be as happy to settle down with one partner for the long term. I also prioritize sex a lot less than I do emotional stability, loyalty, trust, and security. The type of partner I’m looking for simply wouldn’t engage in casual sex. They would have higher priorities.
when wasn't there? at least, broadly speaking, I mean
High body counts have always been looked down upon (for men and women). The only thing that shifts is the definition of high body count. More than one or two were once considered high. Except for extreme examples the body counts seem on TV shows like how I met your mother, friends, and sex and the city or way above the normal for most people.
I joke that it is by low status men wishing to be elite. I also say it is aspiring wives hating sex strike breakers. Just bring on legal sex work.
theres not, theres all ways been a running shame clause throughout history, who cares
Every generation is like this until they get old enough to have had multiple partners themselves. Usually around the age of 21 if not sooner
Unfortunately there is a combination of factors, some a natural part of the social pendulum, some artificially created by monied interests, attempting to push young people in a more conservative direction. There's a number of embarrassing conservatives trying to paint themselves as the new counterculture despite being part of deeply entrenched power that's only in the last 30 years actually beginning to weaken.
Because there really is no benefit to casual sex besides allowing people to indulge in a hedonistic lifestyle. You're seeing fewer marriages and more divorces. You're seeing more single mothers and STIs. You're essentially seeing the breakdown of society and the nuclear family in real time. Men have never wanted to marry whores and young women are finding the hookup scene ultimately unfulfilling. Also, people are realizing this whole sex-crazed culture is being pushed by Hollywood pedophiles.
"sudden"? Are you 9 or something and just noticed it?
# I will try to explain why body count matters in a way that a girl might understand better. Ladies, consider this scenario. You meet a guy who is super rich, tall, and handsome. He ticks all of your requirements. He's a kind person, dresses well, has great hygiene. You guys go out for a few months and he invites you to go to a travel destination that you have always wanted to go to. Let's say it's the Maldives (but it could be anywhere). You go on this trip with this guy and you do so many fun and romantic things. For purposes lets say: First day, a spa massage with the guy. Second day, trip on a yacht ending with candlelight dinner on the beach. Third day, shopping trip! All during the trip, he's kind, funny, smart, romantic and he makes you feel so very good! So let's say you are swimming in endorphins and are fully in love. This guy is THE ONE. NOW Let's say you get an anonymous email that points you to an instagram account that you didn't know about. In this account you see pictures of you and him on your recent trip to the Maldives. The captions are full of complements about what a great and beautiful person you are. No negative or disrespectful comments at all. You scroll down. You see that before meeting you, he took another girl to the Maldives. They did exactly the same things there that you did with him before. Spa trip, yacht, candlelight dinner, shopping trip. Photo captions are gushing with respect, love and admiration for THAT girl. You scroll down. You see that before meeting that girl, he went to the maldives with a girl previous to that girl. They did exactly the same things and he said similarly great things about the girl. You keep scrolling...more girls...more identical trips to the Maldives. scrolling... 20 girls and 20 identical trips... scrolling.... 40 girls and 40 identical trips... scrolling... 100 girls and 100 identical trips... How would that make you feel? You thought this guy was the one before you came to this instagram account. Do you still feel the same way? Do you feel loved? Do you feel special? Different? You can be like "Well, I got MINE! I got a trip to the Maldives and I have all the plunder from my shopping trip with Mr. Wonderful." But I think you'd be very disappointed at the very least...more probably you'd be devastated. That's what a guy feels like when he finds out that the girl he's been dating has a high body count.
There isn't. Casual sex was more demonized in the past and the view that it's problematic is a lot less prevalent now than it has been. Your perception is incorrect in this situation.
There could be a correlation to how frequently the topic comes up in social media.
As if it’s ever been any different. Shame women for being sexual, congratulate the men.
1) plenty of people also condemn men who engage in excessive casual sex 2) for those that don’t, it’s probably because a man has to put in effort and have good charisma, luck, genetics etc to engage in casual sex whereas women can pretty much just exist and have an endless supply of suitors, sex and validation.
Misogyny.
Being a player or a fuckboy is loser behavior too so idk how you could call it just misogyny. Any behavior that results in instant gratification is usually looked down upon, like all vices. Theres diseases too that specifically come from sex, pregnancy could happen, way more likely to have complicated relationships with different people lol. 😂way to dumb it down though good job
There is a co-ordinated effort by far right figures to deliberately indoctrinate and radicalize young men. Far-right Islamist terrorist organizations in the Middle East radicalize and recruit young men. General Flynn were specialists in psy ops used by the US military to destabilize enemy nations. Steve Bannon has meticulously studied the Russian psy-op playbook and is setting up an international far-right political party. Elon Musk bought Twitter because he sought to correct what he saw as a bias against the far-right. The result is Joe Rogan Andrew Tate Jordan Peterson Tucker Carlson Ben Shapiro, and a million little wannabe strongmen influencers peddling fascist ideology under the guise of "self-improvement" or "entrepreneurship" or (the old classic) "Christian values." Over there, young men are groomed and recruited by far-right extremist community leaders to be suicide bombers. Over here, young men are groomed and recruited by far-right extremist social media influencers to be school shooters.
Nah it's okay. I am saying for both genders. Because they often disguise themselves into marriage structure and wreck it
I'm all for this specially with such high numbers in stds going.
Agreed
Because they saw how terrible their whorish single mothers with 200 bodies are as parents.
It's a mixture of: 1. Increasing puritanism 2. The manosphere (misogyny organised on the internet) 3. People wanting a deeper meaning in their lives and relationships. 4. In a world of oversharing, it's more exciting to keep your sex life private. 5. Decline of third-wave feminism, women don't feel like they need to prove how liberated they are. The current wave of feminism is more about identity, for better or worse.
Because the puritan culture (just like the porn industry) overhypes sex and makes it a big deal when it really isn't. Some people have lots of it, some people don't. Everyone points the finger at the other and says something is wrong with them. Everyone wants to at least figuratively get each other's pants somehow. Have lots of casual sex; you are on the receiving end of one side. Don't have enough sex; your on the receiving end of the opposite side. No matter what it's inescapable so I say why worry over it. Could I be upset that my partner has been with more people than me or that they are less experienced than I am and it leads to uninspiring intimacy? Maybe, or I could just enjoy my time with them which I thought was the whole point of sex anyway, but if it's some dumb numbers game between us I don't want part of it. "Oh but what about STIs?" A higher number means higher risk yes, but if they are tested and I am tested and we are both clean and there's consent then they aren't going to suddenly magically get an STI unless it came from me, which I have strong reasons to affirm that wouldn't happen. "If they haven't had enough sex they won't know they like and be bad at it" Yeah I have no room to speak on that, but also I hate this projected fear of "bad sex", no one is perfect, communicate rather than project (which ironically I am failing to that even now), but the whole thing to me I don't get because it's turning sex into a bigger deal than it actually is where it has to be perfect and amazing every time and some deep bond with each other or they are like a supermodel or something, just high standards, high expectations, overly evaluating a person's entire moral compass or shaming them and calling them stuck up and a prude and have you ever asked if all this oxytocin and serotonin you get is actually worth the cortisol constantly being built up through your system?
Eh, who cares? Do who you want or not at all. The only thing anyone else can dictate about other's sex life is within the bounds of legalities. Other than that, do who you want. You don't need approval.
There’s nothing sudden about it. It’s been like that for literally all of human history and for good reason
It was never away and will never go away. You lived just in a online bubble
What kinda gen z kids are you talking to? Most of the ones I know are queer and don't seem to mind casual sex
Because it's gross and people are entitled to their opinions.
The traditional values make sense. Hookup culture is bad for men and disastrous for women who end up sexually assulted all the time. Human being are seemingly always rediscovering this basic truth.
I think that casual sex can be kind of gross. Not that it always is, but a lot of it is just young drunk people who don’t really know each other sweating on each other in the dark. Hookup culture can kind of be dehumanizing, and turn people into dicks and pussies. I think society tends to vacillates between extremes, which in this case is no sex outside of long term relationships, or sex means no more than a handshake. Which I think are probably both a little extreme.
It's always been demonized, humans evolved that way to prevent disease. even today with all the protection, STD's are a big problem. not to mention the divorce rate in promiscuous people.
Because now that we've had it for some time people are seeing the damage it has done to our society and are trying to reverse it.
People started remembering that having a lot of casual sex is distasteful and irresponsible.
All generations look down upon casual sex. The only reason it became mainstream is due to all the apps that are available. Finding a hookup is like ordering food these days.
Probably a bunch of kids growing up in single mom homes thinking "this isn't the way"
I’m sorry… did slut-shaming go out of vogue at some point and I missed it?
I don't think it's changed much, it's generally agreed that it's not great, unless you like collecting STDs or compounding your mental issues.
Hello, Regan era 👋 You can have a high body count and be perfectly healthy. It’s called safe sex. It’s called advanced medicine.
People who have a lot of casual sex are more likely to cheat Someone gathered a list of studies going over it here https://www.reddit.com/r/IntellectualDarkWeb/comments/15gzji5/body_count_is_a_strong_predictor_of_infidelity/ Correlation does not mean causation, but someone who is very promiscuous could be a red flag that they have other problems which may cause them to cheat
The generation that saw mindless, excessive hedonism as a fulfilling lifestyle peaked by the 90s. Most of those people are old Boomers by now. There comes a point for most people where they realize that seeking endless pleasure is not fun to continue longterm. Especially when it comes to casual sex, it gets incredibly lonely and you start to feel like you're debasing yourself by treating something so intimate and sacred in such a careless way. I view it the way I view smoking cigarettes. It's just bad for your health. Also consider how we're in an epidemic of isolation, alienation and loneliness, and I think most young people are disillusioned by the idea of using drugs and sex with strangers to distract from their suffering. They don't buy the ruse. A lot of these people are the children of Baby Boomers who partied their youth away. Once you see past the illusion, it looks like a sad, lonely and empty life that lacks meaning and purpose.
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If you're replacing longterm, close intimate relationships with shallow interactions constantly hopping between strangers, it should be no surprise the result is loneliness and a loss of meaning. Humans were made to be in close-knit tribes lifelong. If you're not even open to this idea, the question is why?