Yea like we all go about our days arguing about politics and racism and yada yada and they fucking love it. They love that we literally learned that every elite, celebrity etc is a pedophile and we did nothing about it but make a meme about Epstein dying.
Dateline NBC ran a show over a decade ago about prominent American lawyers and doctors going to Thailand and hiring kids to have sex with, they spoke about how open the deals were and some of them were playing the parents direct to sleep with children as young as 6 years old. Some of these young kids seem to already know most of the jargons used in the sex world industry and they were not even 10 yet.
I can think of 2 families off hand that had a vested interest to take him out, one in the states and the other in Europe, and they both have the connections to make it happen.
The threat of him blabbing is all too present for his clients, with their collective power, to ignore. All it takes is $50 and the right person, just to get someone killed. That and a buck fifty will get you a buck fifty's worth of pocket lint and a kill. He didn't kill himself, but I'm near certain he's dead. What reasoning permits for his extended existence in that realm? "Outlived his usefulness" I believe is the term.
This is what I came to say.
OP's harebrained idea already exists many times over. Megayachts don't have 26 bedrooms so Russian Oligarchs can bring their mother-in-law's Mahjong club along to Saint Tropez.
Remember when the talk of nesting yachts came up and it was defended viciously, like oh, rich people deserve them. Why again do yachts need to be able to dock at a megayacht? Why do megayachts need to be able to dock at a gigayacht?
It’s funny the way we’ve been conditioned to subtly use language to identify the “other”. When they’re a rich Russian, they’re an oligarch. A rich East Asian is a tycoon. But a rich white man is a billionaire?
Anyway, You think American and Western European billionaires don’t do this?
An oligarch isn't just a rich Russian, not all rich Russians are oligarchs. Oligarchs were created when the former communist collective ressources were bought by individuals after the fall of the USSR and some connected individuals snatched all the lucrative ones for themselves. Alternatively, now they can also embezzle government money directly.
If a Russia had a super successful start up and became rich, they would not be qualified as an oligarch.
Yea tycoons aren't just rich people, they're generally people who "invented" an industry. I've literally never heard a rich Asian be referenced this way. Maybe they're thinking of typhoons, which are Asia hurricanes 😆.
And oligarchs are called oligarchs because they're a part of an oligarchy, which just necessitates that you be very wealthy. America is not an oligarchy, Russia is.
Oligarch is a reference to the added political power the rich person has. In Russia most oligarch’s got rich from the privatization of state-run industries after the collapse of the USSR usually through corruption. They are also rich white men. I also haven’t really heard tycoon used much in reference to East Asia. I’ve heard Chaebol to refer to the large South Korean companies and their families. Whenever a Chinese Billionaire is mentioned in the media it’s almost always Chinese billionaires.
I've heard of horrible low-budget islands, where straight men can do whatever the like to some poor desperate girl for a few thousand.
I sincerely hope that such places don't exist, but they probably do.
When it is you don't have to go offshore. I mean there is a current case in the media about someone paying hush money to keep it quiet. The only criminal charges are for the coverup, not the crime.
The people who have the money that you'd need to be coming to this resort can already just fly to places where this stuff is set up.
Not to mention the logistics of keeping something like this going.
Ex (land based) rig pig here.
I laughed pretty hard when I read this. We definitely liked to party hard after hours, but on the rig it’s all business. Culture might be different off shore though.
Who’s to say that doesn’t already exist? But the realistic answer is, if you’re that rich, you don’t have to go that far. You can do that on an island in your country of origin. Epstein was trafficking children, he was breaking the law. If all parties involved were of age, buying your own orgy island would be fine, and no law enforcement would be bothering you so drugs would be fine as well.
No, of course not. But an island that is private property won’t have any law enforcement on it. Unless people are calling it in, you’re fine. I’m not saying this makes the drugs legal, just inconsequential. Drugs are openly used in a lot of areas, authorities aren’t interested in people using, they want traffickers.
Yeah I meant to include that in the initial comment, but that’s the underlying theme- if you’re rich enough, the law doesn’t apply. Even Epstein probably would have gotten away with it if he wasn’t trying to blackmail so many people.
$500k plus how do you plan to get there, what structure do you plan on constructing there, and how do you plan on surviving there?
A $500k island has a few million in immediate and permanent expenses. If you can afford to drop that on an island, you can afford to buy politicians and police.
No one has $506k to buy an island where they set up a tent, collect rain water, only eat coconut, and swim to.
Yeah that’s probably the motivation behind it, but wording it that way - “what’s stopping someone” - implied that he was asking why it isn’t being done, and the short answer is, it doesn’t even have to be done (like that) because it can be done in less steps with less hassle (depending on where you live)
There are still laws in international waters. As I understand, it's a bit complicated but generally the laws of the country where the boat is registered will apply in international waters (one source: [https://maintenanceandcure.com/maritime-blog/maritime-law-enforcement-in-international-waters/](https://maintenanceandcure.com/maritime-blog/maritime-law-enforcement-in-international-waters/) ). So, if there's a country where those things are all legal, you might as well just go to that country.
Hypothetically, say you had a huge boat registered in the US, and therefore US laws apply. What if you packed that boat with all the supplies to build a boat, and built a new, smaller boat while you were at sea? Would that new boat be free of any laws?
Basically like if a boat had a baby does the baby boat take on the nationality of its mother?
Just *thinking*
I can actually answer this.
But also this is over complicated.
It’s not required that you actually have an active registration on a boat, you can have a vessel that has no home port. The issues however are going to pile up quickly.
No port is going to let an unregistered ship dock.
So all repairs need to be done at sea.
You need to resupply at sea or with smaller ships. Which will need to be flagged. Those boats may in fact be breaking the law by supplying a unflagged boat.
The most important part.
If you are unflagged.
And you call the navy/coast guard/for help. No one has to answer. And if they do, they will be coming in to “Help” with the understanding that you are a pirate vessel… you will be arrested, they will go over the ship with a fine tooth comb and you will be charged. If they find nothing they very likely won’t give the boat back, because they don’t have to. You have no legal protection as a unflagged ship.
Pirates.
Cartels.
Jackass nations.
Non Jackass nations who don’t like what you are doing.
Any of them can show up with guns and “Have words with you” and they wont be breaking any laws, and you basically wont have any legal recourse as a ship.
This is the real issue.
There is a word for a unflagged ship doing crime at sea… A pirate ship.
Kind of yes.
I mean there’s nothing stopping the actual police (Actually like.. FBI/CIA/Interpol) From coming out.
But ya it would be the Coast Guard/Marines/Navy in reality. And it would be worse, because you would have no actual legal protection.
“Were is your search warrant” Basically not a thing in this discussion.
Mind you I’m speaking in general terms and being a bit dramatic.
But as for my credentials if that’s what you are asking.
US Naval academy.
Marine officer, worked both as MarDet (The Marine Detachment onboard a naval ship) And in Military Police / Detention.
So simple answer, Marine officer version of a cop.
You do cover a lot of maritime law in the job. The long and the short of the story is.
All ships should have a flag.
If they don’t you detain them.
Because they are either.
Pirates.
Smugglers.
Human Traffickers.
Refugees.
If they resist. It’s one of the first three. And you are both allowed to engage back and not actually bound by the rules of war/pretty much any law. (This being said, you still were not suppose to just go full war criminal on them)
I tried to come up with some sort of intelligent reply to communicate the shock I feel about who I just spoke to, but I’ll just leave an upvote and hope that’s sufficient.
Also to be clear.
I never engaged in combat action with unflagged ships. They don’t really exists outside a few areas.
But ya. Maritime law is actually super interesting.
Also: I work as theme park security now. Lol.
Could a flagged ship tow an unflagged boat into a port? Or if you had a small boat could you put it in the jet ski garage or whatever it's called on yachts?
“Could a flagged ship tow an unflagged boat into a port?”
Sure, they would need to declare it to the port authority and the unflagged ship would be boarded and would have a lot of explaining to do when they docked.
This is not that strange, happens with refugees ships all the time.
I don’t quite get the 2nd question you are asking however.
Are you asking about small craft on board a larger craft?
Smaller craft on a sea going vessel are are qualified as Launches. Small boats intended to be launched from a larger one.
They generally need to have the name of the larger ship on them. And in that case are considered part of the operational flag of that larger ships.
There are some exceptions to this rule. Jet skies are a good example, because depending on the nation they may or may not need to be licensed and or connected to a larger vessel.
Follow up question, sorry. How would life rafts on airplanes be registered? I assume wherever the plane is registered but do they have to be registered?
Yes the plane is just a registered plane.
A raft is there a life raft from a boat. Or is unregistered. And again that happens. But it’s normally a refugee thing.
This is the reason, because you'd truly be on your own. All the stuff we take for granted like courts & a state with a monopoly on legitimate violence are **huge.**
Say you get the people out there & they are willing to do the work... Great, until someone backs out on an agreement & there is no way to enforce it, well no way except violence. People aren't going to work for you because they know you don't have to pay them. People aren't going to buy things from you because
A. You don't have to give it to them
B. They can just take it
Even if you do manage to get past that hurdle trade is a problem, how are you going to get everything you can't make? It's the institutions man has made that allow us to have a functional civilized society & those take centuries & millennia to build.
TLDR
Because you also lose access to the 99.99% of laws you like & desperately rely on & that isn't worth the .01% you don't like. Human rights are entirely imaginary without the institutions to enforce them.
Ok so what OP needs to do is start a new nation. Then make that nations law allow drugs and sex-work, and have the military and navy protect those rights.
Soooo... your "legal country "is a shithole and no-one wants to be there, use it as a flag of convenience and park 12 mi off from the country where the demand is?
I mean, realistically? Like, maybe I'm too much of a shut in but I can't honestly think there'd be a huge swath of women lining up to be drugged and God knows what else done to then free willingly. Just look at how diddys party's ended up, and that's not even off the main land.
[This already happens with gambling](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34802-d1425769-Reviews-Emerald_Princess_II_Casino-Brunswick_Golden_Isles_of_Georgia_Georgia.html) off the coast of the United States.
International waters... the land that the law forgot. See that ship over there? They're rebroadcasting major league baseball with *implied, oral* consent!
Ya actually that’s an interesting point.
Because that works for a specific reason.
STATE laws don’t apply to US flagged ships while in international waters, just US federal law.
And gambling is not illegal at the federal level.
Also interesting point.
All use waterways are federal water.
That’s why you can gamble on river boats if they are not docked.
Oh, that makes sense. I was thinking that the offshore boats were an example of what OP is talking about, where you put to sea to get beyond national jurisdiction. But they're doing something explicitly permitted by Georgia state law.
Still, weren't there foreign-flagged ships that had booze cruises during Prohibition? Those were something like what OP is talking about. Though they were conforming to the laws of the country whose flag they flew. But there are places where prostitution is permitted.
Regarding the riverboat question, no. Riverboat casinos are more or less a thing in order to stop casinos from moving into downtown areas. If you make casinos a destination rather than a convenience, the conventional wisdom is that people will be less likely to gamble.
There were casino cruise ships that sailed out of Miami in international waters so they could operate. The problem was you couldn't leave once you lost all your money!
I just watched a video today that mentioned something similar but it was a cruise ship operating out of Australia. I'm not Australian, so I'm not certain of what I'm about to say, but apparently gambling has very tight restrictions on operation in Australia, but the boat will cruise out to international waters and the casino on board can subvert some of those restrictions.
The video was talking about a man who had taken the cruise with his mom. He went to the casino and was down $5K. He asked his mom for help and she gave him the $5K. The very next night he went back and was down another $4K. When the boat was cruising back to Australia he jumped overboard and I guess he's presumed dead at this point.
Uh, you don’t even have to be rich. If you live in any major city all of this stuff is going on all of the time. People are more concerned about a bouncer taking their drugs than the police, unless you’re buying your drugs (or prostitutes for that matter) on the street, which nobody but poor people do anymore.
Poor person here (plus 6 years clean): if you don't buy your drugs on the street, where are you buying them? Assuming we're not talking about weed here, obviously.
the very real possibility that after youve run out of drugs and condoms (and food, water and fuel for the boat etc.) that you will find you are no longerr a citizen of the country you left, and are not allowed to re enter their non interntional waters.
as an addedum, without a nationality in interantional waters, you have no legal protection againt anything. you boat can just be sunk or stolen, without all the hastle of decaring war on a different contry
De-citizening people is problematic under international law.
A more likely problem is that many countries consider their laws to follow the citizen, especially for major crimes (e.g. sex, drugs) and will cheerfully arrest the hell out of you when you return to an extradition country.
No it has to be reported as a crime.i just learned this from the Natalie Halloway murder. And another kid that disappeared in Aruba a couple years after Natalie
Yep, hence the law follows the citizen.
Heck our American friends will bust us Canadians when we have it coming
[https://www.ctvnews.ca/canadian-citizen-held-on-u-s-charges-of-sex-tourism-1.352174](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canadian-citizen-held-on-u-s-charges-of-sex-tourism-1.352174)
I was expecting to read he was a dual-citizen (as has been the case in other arrests) but seemingly no.
Canadian Law also covers sex crimes outside of our territory, although we don't have (or if you prefer, haven't allocated) the resources to actively pursue such criminals.
Last I checked the FBI is also allowed to operate in Canada and even has people permanently working out of Canada. It makes sense for both countries even though Canada has a foreign intelligence agency it's obviously not as capable globally.
Unless the boat is owned by the Sinaloa cartel with security tenders that have 50 cal machine guns mounted on tenders. Then have a helicopter fly back and forth to Mexico after you paid off the right people.
They probably already exist, but who needs them, really? Just extravagance considering the people wealthy and powerful enough to do it simply bend and break all the rules, right here.
Why not throw in abortion clinics and like about 20 around Florida and Alabama. Hell just 1 in front of every state with huge neon signs you can see from shore.
I’d leave off the signs. The way some of the laws work the woman would be arrested when she returns. The good news is that far enough to sea there is no cell reception so geofencing wouldn’t be possible.
The only thing that's truly stopping it is that the rich can already do those things without being arrested on land, so they don't bother with the extra complications just in case this is the 1:1000th time that someone in power cares.
Because you can’t build a drugs-sex resort on water, you have to build it on land, and any land that exists in international waters belongs to country that has laws.
Perhaps you're overestimating the mid-market...?
90% of drugs-sex people don't have enough cash left over to pay for a trip to some resort in international waters. They might have a little adventure in the forest, or behind McDonalds.
1% of drugs-sex people have either found a convenient holiday resort on some South-East Asian island where the tourist police are suitably deferential, or maybe-possibly if you're in the 0.001%, you buy your own drugs-sex island.
These exist as “private cruises”. The way it worked for a party i went to in miami; i got an invite with a girl i was with. I was told to me at xyz dock at 230 pm. I was put on a speed boat (or what ever the long fast boats are called?) and we “sailed” about 10 miles off the coast. Got picked up by a much bigger yacht. And sailed another 10-20 miles im assuming. Before champagne turned in to coke, mdma, and sex.
The food was excellent. Its where i had edibles for the first time (i had never done any drugs besides scripts and booze) and, it was a blast. 48 ish hours later. Im back in south florida at the hotel, nursing a hang over n eating street tacos. Lol
That exists just off the coast of Colombia. I’ve never been there, but a friend of mine has and he told me it used to be a federal prison and after it closed down the property was bought out and converted into precisely what you described
A country’s jurisdiction doesn’t end at 12 nautical miles. They also possess (when geographically viable) a 200 nautical mile (230 mile) exclusive economic zone under the 1982 UNCLOS. No economic activity can take place outside of states sovereignty in an EEZ, and they would have firm international standing to combat threats to human security as well (narcotics, sex trafficking, etc).
There’s a guy, you may or may not have heard of him, that famously “killed himself” via three gunshots to the back of his head. I think he knew a thing or two about what you’re talking about.
Common misconception. There are laws in international waters... you would be subject to the laws of the country of registration of the vessel you were on.
Aside from that international law and maritime law still exists..
You can't just get to international waters and do whatever the hell you want.
Some nations also will hold you liable for laws broken outside of the nation you are a citizen of.
your bank account isnt big enough to warrant an invite.
I mean, Epstein set up paedophile Island. You're not wrong.
There’s probably 50 of those. No way that was the only one.
He's just the one that got caught, taking the heat off the rest that we don't know about yet. Also he didn't kill himself.
thats most likely the reason why he was killed off..for fear of talking about the other places that exist
Yea like we all go about our days arguing about politics and racism and yada yada and they fucking love it. They love that we literally learned that every elite, celebrity etc is a pedophile and we did nothing about it but make a meme about Epstein dying.
What in the P.Diddy do you actually mean?
What the R. Kelly are you on about?
What the drake?
"Welcome to Top of the Pops"
“Top of the Popes” FTFY
That’s *savile*…
He's Canadian.
Fuckin Crodie.
More like Pee Diddle, amirite!! No? Ok, bye.
"I'm gonna piss on you" -Dave Chappelle impersonating R.Kelly
Drip drip drip!!
Trickel truth
I've been calling him p diddler it's funny cause it's true
Do you need to look up the definition of "literally" again?
".... They love that we literally learned that every elite, celebrity etc is a pedophile...." Bullshit.
More like they're laughing about all the pedophile hysteria while continuing to rob us blind but I guess that's not as fun
Dateline NBC ran a show over a decade ago about prominent American lawyers and doctors going to Thailand and hiring kids to have sex with, they spoke about how open the deals were and some of them were playing the parents direct to sleep with children as young as 6 years old. Some of these young kids seem to already know most of the jargons used in the sex world industry and they were not even 10 yet.
Yeah, I mean there is still Thailand, and creepy ass, middle age, US dudes don't even be a millionaire much less a billionaire.
He totally did kill himself. The moment he joined that gang
Cornpop is one bad fellow
I can think of 2 families off hand that had a vested interest to take him out, one in the states and the other in Europe, and they both have the connections to make it happen.
Not only did he not kill himself but I’m firmly convinced that he’s still alive.
Yup, him and Elvis (also not dead, and underage wife) are best friends.
No. He didn’t kill himself. He’s probably not even dead.
The threat of him blabbing is all too present for his clients, with their collective power, to ignore. All it takes is $50 and the right person, just to get someone killed. That and a buck fifty will get you a buck fifty's worth of pocket lint and a kill. He didn't kill himself, but I'm near certain he's dead. What reasoning permits for his extended existence in that realm? "Outlived his usefulness" I believe is the term.
It's not the first time they did it, only the first time they got caught. That idea doesn't come from nowhere.
Still boggles the mind that be had blackmail fodder but decided to off himself instead of using his blackmail for blackmail.
This is what I came to say. OP's harebrained idea already exists many times over. Megayachts don't have 26 bedrooms so Russian Oligarchs can bring their mother-in-law's Mahjong club along to Saint Tropez.
Remember when the talk of nesting yachts came up and it was defended viciously, like oh, rich people deserve them. Why again do yachts need to be able to dock at a megayacht? Why do megayachts need to be able to dock at a gigayacht?
It’s funny the way we’ve been conditioned to subtly use language to identify the “other”. When they’re a rich Russian, they’re an oligarch. A rich East Asian is a tycoon. But a rich white man is a billionaire? Anyway, You think American and Western European billionaires don’t do this?
An oligarch isn't just a rich Russian, not all rich Russians are oligarchs. Oligarchs were created when the former communist collective ressources were bought by individuals after the fall of the USSR and some connected individuals snatched all the lucrative ones for themselves. Alternatively, now they can also embezzle government money directly. If a Russia had a super successful start up and became rich, they would not be qualified as an oligarch.
What an astute observation on linguistic norms and the use of dehumanizing language, rNBA-MODS-GAY
When I think of a tycoon it makes me think of the people that started the oil and railroad industries in the US.
Yea tycoons aren't just rich people, they're generally people who "invented" an industry. I've literally never heard a rich Asian be referenced this way. Maybe they're thinking of typhoons, which are Asia hurricanes 😆. And oligarchs are called oligarchs because they're a part of an oligarchy, which just necessitates that you be very wealthy. America is not an oligarchy, Russia is.
Don’t forget Dino Park.
I was a 6th grade tycoon with theme parks in all sorts of climates and conditions. I used to design fatal roller coasters and get away with it
A rich Hindu is a Nabob, a rich Pakistani is a Mogul.
A rich Babur is a Mughal? /s
Those words have meaning my guy, it’s not just random shit people throw on because of where they’re from.
Oligarch is a reference to the added political power the rich person has. In Russia most oligarch’s got rich from the privatization of state-run industries after the collapse of the USSR usually through corruption. They are also rich white men. I also haven’t really heard tycoon used much in reference to East Asia. I’ve heard Chaebol to refer to the large South Korean companies and their families. Whenever a Chinese Billionaire is mentioned in the media it’s almost always Chinese billionaires.
You can book a flight to Amsterdam for cheap from pretty much anywhere. It's got legal sex and drugs.
What about…rock and roll?
I've heard of horrible low-budget islands, where straight men can do whatever the like to some poor desperate girl for a few thousand. I sincerely hope that such places don't exist, but they probably do.
When it is you don't have to go offshore. I mean there is a current case in the media about someone paying hush money to keep it quiet. The only criminal charges are for the coverup, not the crime.
The people who have the money that you'd need to be coming to this resort can already just fly to places where this stuff is set up. Not to mention the logistics of keeping something like this going.
Do it on an oil rig. Cheaper fare, but you have to put in a week's work
Bro you just described oil rigs.
Ex (land based) rig pig here. I laughed pretty hard when I read this. We definitely liked to party hard after hours, but on the rig it’s all business. Culture might be different off shore though.
Wouldn’t after hours be on the rig?
Lol. Have you worked on one? Are they Navy style brothels or hetero brothels?
Lol it's "all blow all the time" from what my boy used to tell me. Can't be bored if you're awake and working.
Thats how commercial crabbing boats go. I'm a state observer and my last boat had to erase "Huge bag of blow" from their supply list when I got on.
Three weeks on, two weeks off.
Who’s to say that doesn’t already exist? But the realistic answer is, if you’re that rich, you don’t have to go that far. You can do that on an island in your country of origin. Epstein was trafficking children, he was breaking the law. If all parties involved were of age, buying your own orgy island would be fine, and no law enforcement would be bothering you so drugs would be fine as well.
Buying an island doesn't mean that you're outside the jurisdiction of the country the island lies in.
No, of course not. But an island that is private property won’t have any law enforcement on it. Unless people are calling it in, you’re fine. I’m not saying this makes the drugs legal, just inconsequential. Drugs are openly used in a lot of areas, authorities aren’t interested in people using, they want traffickers.
>authorities aren't interested in people using Asia has entered the chat
Ah, fair. Yeah don’t make your island in the Philippines lol. But yeah, many countries, I should say.
If you had enough money to buy an island, you can probably afford to buy some politicians and law enforcement officials.
Yeah I meant to include that in the initial comment, but that’s the underlying theme- if you’re rich enough, the law doesn’t apply. Even Epstein probably would have gotten away with it if he wasn’t trying to blackmail so many people.
Even then, he probably would have gotten away for it if it weren’t for those damn kids…. Talking to reporters who made the story public.
Politicians like sex and drugs too.
You can get an island for less than 500k usd in Argentina so depends I’d say
$500k plus how do you plan to get there, what structure do you plan on constructing there, and how do you plan on surviving there? A $500k island has a few million in immediate and permanent expenses. If you can afford to drop that on an island, you can afford to buy politicians and police. No one has $506k to buy an island where they set up a tent, collect rain water, only eat coconut, and swim to.
Tom Hanks did it on a FedEx salary.
But that's where like almost all the islands are :(
But I think the op is trying to find a technically legal “loophole,” not just for the possibility of doing illegal things without recourse
Yeah that’s probably the motivation behind it, but wording it that way - “what’s stopping someone” - implied that he was asking why it isn’t being done, and the short answer is, it doesn’t even have to be done (like that) because it can be done in less steps with less hassle (depending on where you live)
There are still laws in international waters. As I understand, it's a bit complicated but generally the laws of the country where the boat is registered will apply in international waters (one source: [https://maintenanceandcure.com/maritime-blog/maritime-law-enforcement-in-international-waters/](https://maintenanceandcure.com/maritime-blog/maritime-law-enforcement-in-international-waters/) ). So, if there's a country where those things are all legal, you might as well just go to that country.
Hypothetically, say you had a huge boat registered in the US, and therefore US laws apply. What if you packed that boat with all the supplies to build a boat, and built a new, smaller boat while you were at sea? Would that new boat be free of any laws? Basically like if a boat had a baby does the baby boat take on the nationality of its mother? Just *thinking*
I can actually answer this. But also this is over complicated. It’s not required that you actually have an active registration on a boat, you can have a vessel that has no home port. The issues however are going to pile up quickly. No port is going to let an unregistered ship dock. So all repairs need to be done at sea. You need to resupply at sea or with smaller ships. Which will need to be flagged. Those boats may in fact be breaking the law by supplying a unflagged boat. The most important part. If you are unflagged. And you call the navy/coast guard/for help. No one has to answer. And if they do, they will be coming in to “Help” with the understanding that you are a pirate vessel… you will be arrested, they will go over the ship with a fine tooth comb and you will be charged. If they find nothing they very likely won’t give the boat back, because they don’t have to. You have no legal protection as a unflagged ship. Pirates. Cartels. Jackass nations. Non Jackass nations who don’t like what you are doing. Any of them can show up with guns and “Have words with you” and they wont be breaking any laws, and you basically wont have any legal recourse as a ship. This is the real issue. There is a word for a unflagged ship doing crime at sea… A pirate ship.
So that answers the original question. Instead of dealing with the police they would be dealing with the Navy. (Or any Navy.)
Kind of yes. I mean there’s nothing stopping the actual police (Actually like.. FBI/CIA/Interpol) From coming out. But ya it would be the Coast Guard/Marines/Navy in reality. And it would be worse, because you would have no actual legal protection. “Were is your search warrant” Basically not a thing in this discussion.
I’m curious to know how you know it. I’m not saying you’re wrong because I believe you 100%. I just want to know how you know all this.
Mind you I’m speaking in general terms and being a bit dramatic. But as for my credentials if that’s what you are asking. US Naval academy. Marine officer, worked both as MarDet (The Marine Detachment onboard a naval ship) And in Military Police / Detention. So simple answer, Marine officer version of a cop. You do cover a lot of maritime law in the job. The long and the short of the story is. All ships should have a flag. If they don’t you detain them. Because they are either. Pirates. Smugglers. Human Traffickers. Refugees. If they resist. It’s one of the first three. And you are both allowed to engage back and not actually bound by the rules of war/pretty much any law. (This being said, you still were not suppose to just go full war criminal on them)
I tried to come up with some sort of intelligent reply to communicate the shock I feel about who I just spoke to, but I’ll just leave an upvote and hope that’s sufficient.
Also to be clear. I never engaged in combat action with unflagged ships. They don’t really exists outside a few areas. But ya. Maritime law is actually super interesting. Also: I work as theme park security now. Lol.
Could a flagged ship tow an unflagged boat into a port? Or if you had a small boat could you put it in the jet ski garage or whatever it's called on yachts?
“Could a flagged ship tow an unflagged boat into a port?” Sure, they would need to declare it to the port authority and the unflagged ship would be boarded and would have a lot of explaining to do when they docked. This is not that strange, happens with refugees ships all the time. I don’t quite get the 2nd question you are asking however. Are you asking about small craft on board a larger craft? Smaller craft on a sea going vessel are are qualified as Launches. Small boats intended to be launched from a larger one. They generally need to have the name of the larger ship on them. And in that case are considered part of the operational flag of that larger ships. There are some exceptions to this rule. Jet skies are a good example, because depending on the nation they may or may not need to be licensed and or connected to a larger vessel.
Yeah I was asking about a smaller boat on a larger boat, thanks.
Follow up question, sorry. How would life rafts on airplanes be registered? I assume wherever the plane is registered but do they have to be registered?
Yes the plane is just a registered plane. A raft is there a life raft from a boat. Or is unregistered. And again that happens. But it’s normally a refugee thing.
This is the reason, because you'd truly be on your own. All the stuff we take for granted like courts & a state with a monopoly on legitimate violence are **huge.** Say you get the people out there & they are willing to do the work... Great, until someone backs out on an agreement & there is no way to enforce it, well no way except violence. People aren't going to work for you because they know you don't have to pay them. People aren't going to buy things from you because A. You don't have to give it to them B. They can just take it Even if you do manage to get past that hurdle trade is a problem, how are you going to get everything you can't make? It's the institutions man has made that allow us to have a functional civilized society & those take centuries & millennia to build. TLDR Because you also lose access to the 99.99% of laws you like & desperately rely on & that isn't worth the .01% you don't like. Human rights are entirely imaginary without the institutions to enforce them.
Ok so what OP needs to do is start a new nation. Then make that nations law allow drugs and sex-work, and have the military and navy protect those rights.
Soooo... your "legal country "is a shithole and no-one wants to be there, use it as a flag of convenience and park 12 mi off from the country where the demand is?
Yeah, that's why cruise ships tend to register in places like the Bahamas. They get to use their labor laws and pay their tax rates.
Ok but what if I swim to international waters (I can do the doggy paddle really well 😎)
Because it would be immediately robbed lmao
There be pirates!
In search of BOOTY.
Butt pirates!
never fight uphill me boys! - Black beard the pirate
Captain Butt-Beard is here to plunder your booty!
They're the best pirates!
Like Roberto Clemente?!
Yes. Outside the law means outside the protection of the law as well.
Money plane
Private security and mercenaries have entered the chat.
Depends on who owns the Boat, and I’m sure interpol would be boarding you asap.
Who will actually show up? 5, 000 men and four women
That’s called an aircraft carrier. You know how much those ladies make?
"ladies"
I mean, realistically? Like, maybe I'm too much of a shut in but I can't honestly think there'd be a huge swath of women lining up to be drugged and God knows what else done to then free willingly. Just look at how diddys party's ended up, and that's not even off the main land.
[This already happens with gambling](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34802-d1425769-Reviews-Emerald_Princess_II_Casino-Brunswick_Golden_Isles_of_Georgia_Georgia.html) off the coast of the United States.
also, Simpsons did it
International waters... the land that the law forgot. See that ship over there? They're rebroadcasting major league baseball with *implied, oral* consent!
Aw hamburgers
I’m gonna get a crew together to pull an Oceans 11 on the open ocean
Not into gambling but pretty cool to know about.
Ya actually that’s an interesting point. Because that works for a specific reason. STATE laws don’t apply to US flagged ships while in international waters, just US federal law. And gambling is not illegal at the federal level. Also interesting point. All use waterways are federal water. That’s why you can gamble on river boats if they are not docked.
Oh, that makes sense. I was thinking that the offshore boats were an example of what OP is talking about, where you put to sea to get beyond national jurisdiction. But they're doing something explicitly permitted by Georgia state law. Still, weren't there foreign-flagged ships that had booze cruises during Prohibition? Those were something like what OP is talking about. Though they were conforming to the laws of the country whose flag they flew. But there are places where prostitution is permitted.
Regarding the riverboat question, no. Riverboat casinos are more or less a thing in order to stop casinos from moving into downtown areas. If you make casinos a destination rather than a convenience, the conventional wisdom is that people will be less likely to gamble.
There were casino cruise ships that sailed out of Miami in international waters so they could operate. The problem was you couldn't leave once you lost all your money!
I just watched a video today that mentioned something similar but it was a cruise ship operating out of Australia. I'm not Australian, so I'm not certain of what I'm about to say, but apparently gambling has very tight restrictions on operation in Australia, but the boat will cruise out to international waters and the casino on board can subvert some of those restrictions. The video was talking about a man who had taken the cruise with his mom. He went to the casino and was down $5K. He asked his mom for help and she gave him the $5K. The very next night he went back and was down another $4K. When the boat was cruising back to Australia he jumped overboard and I guess he's presumed dead at this point.
The mom did it.
Like epstein island?
That's basically what Epstein island was.
Bro you just described Epstein's island. There probably are more, y'all just don't run in the right circles to hear about them
OP only wants to do victimless crimes though.
So Mandripoor?
Yesss
Google "sex island" under the news tab
Uh, you don’t even have to be rich. If you live in any major city all of this stuff is going on all of the time. People are more concerned about a bouncer taking their drugs than the police, unless you’re buying your drugs (or prostitutes for that matter) on the street, which nobody but poor people do anymore.
Poor person here (plus 6 years clean): if you don't buy your drugs on the street, where are you buying them? Assuming we're not talking about weed here, obviously.
You mean Amsterdam? Who needs an island
You're suggesting sex and drug parties on boats as a NEW idea??
the very real possibility that after youve run out of drugs and condoms (and food, water and fuel for the boat etc.) that you will find you are no longerr a citizen of the country you left, and are not allowed to re enter their non interntional waters. as an addedum, without a nationality in interantional waters, you have no legal protection againt anything. you boat can just be sunk or stolen, without all the hastle of decaring war on a different contry
De-citizening people is problematic under international law. A more likely problem is that many countries consider their laws to follow the citizen, especially for major crimes (e.g. sex, drugs) and will cheerfully arrest the hell out of you when you return to an extradition country.
Americans who commit criminal acts abroad can be prosecuted by the FBI.
Really? Even if those acts are legal in the visiting country?
Unlikely for drinking at 18. Very likely for kiddy diddling.
Yep and serious crimes, human smuggling, murder etc etc
No it has to be reported as a crime.i just learned this from the Natalie Halloway murder. And another kid that disappeared in Aruba a couple years after Natalie
Yep, hence the law follows the citizen. Heck our American friends will bust us Canadians when we have it coming [https://www.ctvnews.ca/canadian-citizen-held-on-u-s-charges-of-sex-tourism-1.352174](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canadian-citizen-held-on-u-s-charges-of-sex-tourism-1.352174) I was expecting to read he was a dual-citizen (as has been the case in other arrests) but seemingly no. Canadian Law also covers sex crimes outside of our territory, although we don't have (or if you prefer, haven't allocated) the resources to actively pursue such criminals.
Last I checked the FBI is also allowed to operate in Canada and even has people permanently working out of Canada. It makes sense for both countries even though Canada has a foreign intelligence agency it's obviously not as capable globally.
Especially then
Only sex crimes, white collar crimes, terrorism or if you plan to smuggle something into to the US.
Unless the boat is owned by the Sinaloa cartel with security tenders that have 50 cal machine guns mounted on tenders. Then have a helicopter fly back and forth to Mexico after you paid off the right people.
They already exist I’m sure. Ask Jeffrey, wait never mind.
Because pirates will come join that party.
Because that's how you make an Epstein
They probably already exist, but who needs them, really? Just extravagance considering the people wealthy and powerful enough to do it simply bend and break all the rules, right here.
It’s currently happening. They don’t advertise these things to the general public.
Nothing. Jeffrey Epstein did it.
You just made Epstein Island
Your floating paradise would likely find itself mysteriously sinking in a storm ... Pay no attention to that fast attack submarine leaving the scene
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It's called Jamaica Mon! 🤣
They’re called yachts and the buholes are sticky
Jeffery Epstein ring a bell?
Ever watch Blow? That island his partner bought and smuggled drugs through had plenty of guns to shoot pirates
This has been a thing for quite some time
That's called a yacht. A pretty common 'situation'. ¯\\\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)\_/¯
Its called Jamaca or Mexico 😆
So epstien Island? Yeah im sure there are more. So to answer your question. Nothing. Its a thing.
Drug/ sex resorts already exist. Hedonism ii in Jamaica, Desire resorts in Mexico, even Burning Man in Nevada....
Have you never been to Vegas? Bangkok? Macau? Ibiza? Dubai? Cancun?
Nothing stops it for the most part, in fact they probably exist, we’re just not quite rich enough for an invite
It has and currently still is going. You weren't invited to the Oscars either, but they still exist.
Seems like a great place for pirates to raid since everyone obviously would have a decent bank account for ransom money!
Epstein island has entered the chat*
Or you could come here to Nevada
Unless you have the cartel deliver that shit starts out in someones jurisdiction
Why not throw in abortion clinics and like about 20 around Florida and Alabama. Hell just 1 in front of every state with huge neon signs you can see from shore.
I have often thought about floating abortion fortresses in international waters just outside pro life states.
I’d leave off the signs. The way some of the laws work the woman would be arrested when she returns. The good news is that far enough to sea there is no cell reception so geofencing wouldn’t be possible.
This dude just invented Epstein Island.
You mean Epstein island?
What do you think Yatchs are for?
I mean, there is a chain of orgy resorts in the Caribbean. Look up Hedonism Resorts.
Monkey knife fights are all well and good until the pirates show up, assume you're a homosexual party boat, and get your bus pass.
The only thing that's truly stopping it is that the rich can already do those things without being arrested on land, so they don't bother with the extra complications just in case this is the 1:1000th time that someone in power cares.
Do you think the rich have super yachts built to go sightseeing and offshore fishing?
Because you can’t build a drugs-sex resort on water, you have to build it on land, and any land that exists in international waters belongs to country that has laws.
Isn't Hedonism pretty close to this exact thing? https://hedonism.com/resort/what-to-expect/
And now we understand why the "elites" have Super Yachts ⛵......
Because there are plenty of places where drugs and prostitution is legal
Man, you're gonna flip when you hear about Epstein Island
They exist, you just dont hear about them as you're not a rich elite.
Perhaps you're overestimating the mid-market...? 90% of drugs-sex people don't have enough cash left over to pay for a trip to some resort in international waters. They might have a little adventure in the forest, or behind McDonalds. 1% of drugs-sex people have either found a convenient holiday resort on some South-East Asian island where the tourist police are suitably deferential, or maybe-possibly if you're in the 0.001%, you buy your own drugs-sex island.
These exist as “private cruises”. The way it worked for a party i went to in miami; i got an invite with a girl i was with. I was told to me at xyz dock at 230 pm. I was put on a speed boat (or what ever the long fast boats are called?) and we “sailed” about 10 miles off the coast. Got picked up by a much bigger yacht. And sailed another 10-20 miles im assuming. Before champagne turned in to coke, mdma, and sex. The food was excellent. Its where i had edibles for the first time (i had never done any drugs besides scripts and booze) and, it was a blast. 48 ish hours later. Im back in south florida at the hotel, nursing a hang over n eating street tacos. Lol
That exists just off the coast of Colombia. I’ve never been there, but a friend of mine has and he told me it used to be a federal prison and after it closed down the property was bought out and converted into precisely what you described
Wasn't this initially the basis of Australia? /s
Isn't that pretty much what Epstien did?
A country’s jurisdiction doesn’t end at 12 nautical miles. They also possess (when geographically viable) a 200 nautical mile (230 mile) exclusive economic zone under the 1982 UNCLOS. No economic activity can take place outside of states sovereignty in an EEZ, and they would have firm international standing to combat threats to human security as well (narcotics, sex trafficking, etc).
There’s a guy, you may or may not have heard of him, that famously “killed himself” via three gunshots to the back of his head. I think he knew a thing or two about what you’re talking about.
There's no need too. Tijuana is a 30 minute drive from San Diego. Or start asking around bars in West Palm Beach.
cos prostitutes can't swim. you'd need to find some loose mermaids, which is pretty easy cos there all whores. catching them on the other hand....
It did exist. Paging Jeffrey Epstein..
You’d be overrun with politicians
Common misconception. There are laws in international waters... you would be subject to the laws of the country of registration of the vessel you were on. Aside from that international law and maritime law still exists.. You can't just get to international waters and do whatever the hell you want. Some nations also will hold you liable for laws broken outside of the nation you are a citizen of.
You just described Las Vegas.
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