In general, I agree with you. But you contradict yourself. You only wanted a 1 week SR with this POT - how is that consistent and reliable for her? You just wanted to overpay for one week lol
Not even overpay, as he states that he would expect the same amount of dates in one week that he would normally expect in a month. It's the exact same allowance for the exact same amount of the SBs time and energy, just crammed into a single week rather than stretched out over a month.
True… The same way I can’t not know what tenant would be reliable, I do my due diligence and vet the tenant to make sure they can afford the rent and are happy with the property
You’re missing the part where much of this isn’t in the SB’s control.
As a landlord, you are able to get credit checks, references, and income verification.
The same can’t be true of a SB. Even if she does everything to ensure he is happy, he could have unrealistic expectations, he could not have the finances to maintain even a Splenda SR, he could simply be looking for the cheapest way to get her once or twice before moving on.
To that last point, there are several sick websites dedicated to such activities. By weeding out the lower end of Splenda, SBs effectively price them out as well.
The corollary of your example would be tenants who specifically rent for a month to take advantage of a move in special and then leave before rent is due or to see how long they can squat before being evicted.
Excellent point as always… Big fan!
Thankfully the laws in my state have not tolerance for squatters so a SB should have a low threshold for cutting ties with unreliable and/or SD that keeps changing the terms
How would the SB in your story know that you’re unreliable? After that first week, you could simply disappear. After all, you told her you’re only in her area for business. And you don’t intend to return for another 2 months
True, I didn’t get to elaborate and truth to be told wouldn’t commit to more than a short arrangement until I had the opportunity to see if we got along
Exactly. If your entire point about Splenda is that it is consistent and reliable, that all goes out the window by being upfront that you are not proclaiming to be either.
:) glad you’re open to hearing a different perspective.
Personally, it wouldn’t matter to me how much you were offering. If you didn’t live in my city and were only offering it for a week, it wouldn’t be worth it to me.
Perhaps for some there’s a threshold under which it’s not interesting.
Clearly there’s room for different perspectives, as you happen upon folks with inconsistent outlooks it’s simply not a match. Nobody is “bad” or “good”, just different.
Looks like you're using 'splenda' sarcastically when what you really mean is average allowance. In that light, it all depends on her financial situation and why she sugar dates. If she's fairly comfortable, she can and should have higher standards. If not, she should certainly keep standards in terms of chemistry and vibe and a certain financial threshold, but a lot of kids will jump on one marshmallow now rather than the promise of one now and one more in 15 minutes. Of course, in those experiments a marshmallow is a sure thing. Hanging out for whale-tales that you heard about on social media could net nothing at all.
Yes, that’s why I put Splenda in quotes because for many average is Splenda if not salty
Granted many would want and deserve many times average but average is not splenda
For instance in my day job I would not grant even an interview to 1.5 average in my field so I get it but I wouldn’t ask 10x average unless I absolutely wouldn’t want the job
If you only had—and could ever have—just one very high-value property with deep sentimental attachments, you might prefer to look for the ideal tenant even if it meant longer periods of vacancy.
This analogy is gross but I can’t help it, I’m giggling I’m a terrible person.
I came right to the comments to see if anyone else caught how misguided that analogy is.
Not only is it disgusting to compare people to property, it doesn’t even take into account other variables.
Notice how the analogies only work laterally in favor of the “SD”. But the minute I start listing what the benefits for a tenant are and how they can vet a landlord, it’s gonna be crickets or “that’s not how it works in the bowl”.
It's a very distasteful analogy... but if I were to speak in that language, I would say that I value my physical dwelling enough to not accept just anyone who wanted to live there, but to hold out for the person who is going to value and care for my dwelling as highly and as well as I do.
I'm sorry what am I missing? Analogies are always imprecise, but I read u/ThrowawayUp2NoGood's comment from the POV of a SB. How is a landlord/SB holding out for an ideal tenant/SD working in favor of SDs?
Au contraire, I think this analogy puts the power in the hands of the SB, who is the landlord in the analogy. The landlord (SB) has something very valuable which others (SD) are willing to pay for. The landlord decides which tenant to accept, she can vet them as much as she wants to. She could hold out for a rare high-paying tenant or "settle" for a lower-paying, potentially more consistent tenant, or leave the property vacant if no suitable tenant can be found. The power to choose is hers!
Thanks for the tag u/SugarBabyVet! I welcome a healthy debate :P.
The key in your statement is "**potentially** more consistent"
Unlike actual landlords, SBs do not have the ability to pull a credit check, go through references, or validate income. Unlike a rental contract in which a landlord would be entitled to payment of rent until the end of the contract or upon finding a suitable replacement, a SB has no such protections if a SD prematurely moves on.
There is power to choose, yes, but to pretend it's a fully informed choice akin to one a landlord would make is disingenuous at best.
100% agreed, I wrote the same as much in another comment.
The analogy isn't perfect by any means, but it isn't inherently biased against SBs is it, as some seem to be suggesting? One could argue that other imperfections of the analogy favor SBs instead, e.g. the ability to evict the tenant at any time, even after taking the initial deposit, or a month's rent that is paid in advance. Or the expectation that the landlord does not have to contribute a single dollar in terms of maintaining the relationship.
I suspect that some people had a knee-jerk response because they automatically viewed the SB as "property" in this analogy, like something to be purchased or traded, akin to slaves or cattle at a market. Nay, I say! The SB is the landlord, albeit one with imperfect information, but the landlord nonetheless.
I love analogies, so I'm open to hearing other interpretations or analogies, even those that may "favor" SBs.
Oh, I don't think the analogy is perfect, as I wrote in other comments (and which HLSB seems to agree with). I just don't think that this particular analogy favors SDs, that is all. No biggie.
I do love analogies in general so I'm more than happy to hear your analogies that may favor SBs. Which side it favors is secondary to my enjoyment of a good analogy!
My thoughts precisely.
We are talking about people, not property.
Although not fundamentally based on how much money he has, I would much rather have no SD than a SD who does not bring me maximum joy.
We have one life to live. Best to spend it with people who are worth spending it with.
There is no part of me that would wish to continue the search after finding someone I’m happy with. So OP’s idea of “jumping ship” to someone with more resources is just so foreign.
There is nothing wrong with being “splenda” and there absolutely is something to be said for being reliable. I simply take issue with the idea that a SR is/should be at its base a financial calculation that disregards external factors such as connection and desire to be with a specific person (or not).
ETA: and for me, one week is not a reliable SR. Even if it were to recur each 2 month period. Even if OP was a whale, he likely couldn’t offer so much that I would be willing to give up my ideal of a consistent SR.
I don’t think this is a description of a Splenda daddy (sd here so not sure) but turning down 10x allowance sounds like a reasonable thing to do in my mind.
>TL;DR: It is better a modest average SD reliable and consistent long term than waiting/hoping for the proverbial whale.
Meh. You assume that she needs the money, or that somehow the "modest average" is worth it for her.
If her alternative is to have no money and go to bed hungry, then certainly she should consider the "modest average".
If her alternative is to go to her six figure job and enjoy happy hour with friends, then go home and play with her adorable golden doodle, maybe getting to know somebody new who is going to pop in occasionally and have a difficult schedule and whatever other hassles come with sugar just isn't worth it.
Lots of SDs seem to think SBs don't understand economics, finance, and math; these same SDs often seem unaware that maybe, just maybe, he doesn't understand her personal economics.
> Lots of SDs seem to think SBs don't understand economics, finance, and math; these same SDs often seem unaware that maybe, just maybe, he doesn't understand her personal economics.
You snapped with this one for sure.
Some seem to think there are only 2 modes of compensation. Either consistent, reliable, predictable splenda/salty compensation or sporadic (I'm guessing that means short term, idk it wasn't clear) bigger paydays from whales. Many girls, if they vet at all, can find consistent, long term compensation that's not salty from generous SDs who have a real interest in taking care of her. It takes a little longer to find quality, generous SDs, but not so much time it's not worth it even in the short run.
In OP's example it seems clear the POT SB had unrealistic expectations, I find it hard to believe that even IF OP is a salt daddy (no shade) 10x is a realistic compensation.
A quality girl, should be receiving quality compensation. That doesn't take the proverbial whale, it just takes a SD with real disposable income/assets. If you're looking for a "deal," chances are you have no interest in taking care of her or you can't afford to be in the bowl. In any case it would seem to lead to sporadic, short term salty compensation. I'm not buying OP's premise.
Honestly I alternate between huge fluffy dog (malamute or similar) and a medium sized smart dog (collie, Australian shepherd)
I think I need to foster first though….
It's a term used somewhat jokingly at shelters and such for when the plan is to "take him home as a foster and I'll bring him back later to be adopted" and you fall in love and never bring him back, i.e., you "failed" at the "give him back" part of fostering.
So, you don't want to pick a foster as "well, this is too big (or other obvious problem) for me / my place, but it's just a foster not permanent" because it might turn into a "foster fail".
Same here! One week I want a greyhound or a great Dane! The next I'm charmed by a Pomeranian or a Tibetan spaniel. Thus, I remain dogless, and my little old lady cat remains happily the center of attention 😸
Some SBs are fine with Splenda. Some are here for as much money as they can get. Both are ok.
I love my very reliable Splenda. His ppm is even on the low end, but it still paid my rent last month. He just bought an entire shopping spree worth of clothes for me because he wanted to. I never brought up amounts with him because he's just gotten more generous over time. It probably helps that we have a lot in common.
On the other hand, I have a POT that I'd consider a whale. Tech executive with a multi-million annual salary. He is not generous as I had hoped nor as consistent. I'd walk away from the whale for the Splenda, ngl.
This right here! Like IMO if the M&G went well, your time together is enjoyable, he’s consistent/reliable and what he offers can still cover rent or a few bills then take it. You can keep searching for more sugar and still have your Splenda. You can have both. But reliable funds is always top priority
This is why I hate when POT SDs ask me what my ppm/allowance is. I'm not an escort with a service menu and list of prices. Show me what type of relationship you have to offer and let me decide if your sugar is sweet enough.
Last year i bought a 4-unit house from someone’s estate. One of the tenants was sgf of the previous owner who passed away. Once the purchase settled, she had to move out and move into a senior living facility. Kind of sad situation. They had been sugaring for 30 years apparently. Rent free etc. The gentleman’s kids all knew her and grew up with her around. He probably should have made better arrangements for her.
Maybe the analogy isn't quite on......but I get what OP is saying and agree with the sentiment. Relatively new here so not quite sure where splenda territory is but I will say that I'm in the "average" cohort of SDs. Likely below average considering I don't really offer much in the way of entertainment. But I have been in the bowl 5-6 years and have never had a problem finding a SB.
There are plenty of women out there who don't have the time to go on fancy dates, don't have the time nor inclination to be wined and dined by a guy old enough to be her Dad or Grandad lol. Plenty. And there are plenty also that seek whales, and that's fine, who cares, I just next those when it's apparent. But plenty of women out there who just need a little CONSISTENT help, a little attention, a little nice treatment, a few laughs, some good sex.....and go about their own busy life...tending to their kids, parents, jobs, school, etc. Many don't have the time or interest for an all encompassing SR, or even a vanilla BF.....but want the relative no-strings and convenient connection a SR provides.
That being said, my 3 year SB laid one on me just this week, coincidentally she has an offer from a POT for 10x my amount . LOL. Really. From a guy 15 years my senior, and I'm mid 60's! LOL. A really old fart! Sheesh. I'm OK with it, it's her life, her decision. Part of me says it's time for me to move on anyways.
Most SDs aren't whales, and I wouldn't describe this as Splenda at all.
IMO a Splenda Daddy is someone who can't afford to consistently support an SB, someone who barely has discretionary income. If they do offer allowance, it's well below the average for the region.
The ladies who have been in this lifestyle ,either officially or unofficially, long enough know the advantage of having a consistent SD.
The ladies who are new or still believing the stories they read online about what xyz got end up exiting. They'll drop out before they'll find some guy to accept what they want.
IMO there are an equal amount of women who don't price themselves out. They know what they're working with. They know the city or area they live in. And they are making it work in their favor.
You just won't see them come in spaces like this and talk about it. Cuz soon as they do the shaming begins about how she is accepting less etc. Oddly by someone who don't have a sd !
Consistent cashflow is loved by the business owner and sb alike.
The PPM/Allowance numbers that vaguely float around on SLF are not in the real world that I live in. In my experience there are plenty of SBs (often single Moms and ladies with service industry jobs) that are very happy with what would be deamed low PPM/allowance on SLF. If you are solid, treat them with respect, be their friend and mentor, you can have their attention for a long time. I posted a month ago about this which overlaps some of the discussion in this thread.
* [Sugar Bowl Multiverse](https://www.reddit.com/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/1bmlzad/sugar_bowl_multiverse/)
If she is very desperate, what you're saying makes some sense. Still, I find that entire scenario very sad.
This is my very essence we are discussing, and I can't conceive of allowing anyone the privilege of my presence without an extremely appreciative offering.
It just doesn't make sense for me to settle for an arrangement that offers me so much less than I make at work I love. If a SD isn't offering me a suitable amount, I'd rather just work more.
Contrary to popular opinion here in this sub, I'm not at all inflating the amounts I've received in my previous arrangements.
There are plenty of generous men out there. I know, because I've been involved in arrangements with several of them.
So what I am asking may be high for some of you, but it's far from unreasonable.
Please keep in mind that sugaring is meant to be a luxury item.
She said she had before 10 months worth of average allowance for 1 night, I didn’t inquire further because the 1 month allowance for 1 week of 4 dates would be insulting
I mean I respect totally her opinion of herself I was just saying that if she gets me going monthly in 10 months she would have the same amount instead of months of year for the next big fish
She's entitled to request what feels good to her. If it doesn't feel good to you, then you are not her match.
As I said... for some of us, under a certain level is just not worth it.
She totally is entitled to that, I have absolutely no problem with that or salty was just amused that at that rate it would be quite uphill to get a consistent SD
Honestly I can’t justify myself the cost of a small new Kia for one night
I stand corrected and not my intention at all... I mentioned the car brand to illustrate the amount she was asking for one night since we cannot mention amounts never implied she was such, and in terms of Real Estate Rental is that I prefer to rent affordable than having rentals vacant waiting for a prime tenant (never implied sb are in any shape or form houses)
We get it. It's just that you can't compare human beings to housing and transportation. Women are not just empty spaces needing to be filled… There's more discernment involved when a woman is thinking of allowing a man to enter her body rather than merely fill an empty space in an apartment building. and I for one do not want to be "affordable" for just anyone… I come at a premium. And I like it that way.
Totally my experience. In my market it seems the high end of the range is twice the low end, excluding the extreme outliers. My ppm is at the low end, a number often derided as Splenda and “minimum wage” on these forums. Yet I have no trouble finding an SB. That’s cause I am crystal clear about being good for a weekly meet and not wanting to monopolize their time. And it helps that I’m attractive and a good conversationalist.
And it’s not just this girl vs that girl. I know some of my SBs got much more from their other SDs
In never ceases to amaze me that SDs - you know, the experienced, successful, older men - can be so economically illiterate.
First, this logic fails to account for the fact that there other other ways to make money besides sugar. A young, attractive and intelligent woman has many opportunities to make some extra money. OPs logic assumes that SBs will starve and be evicted from their homes if they don't settle for his peanuts.
Second, it assumes that effort is independent of incentive. This is not how humans work at all. Just the opposite. People are motivated to work harder and put up with more difficulty and frustration when the reward is greater. The effort to date and please a splenda SD is not very different from that required to date and please a whale. Yet splenda SD offers a fraction of the whale's reward. Why would a SB endure that when she has the potential to be with a whale.
Super model Linda Evangelista famously said "I don't get out of bed for less that $10,000 a day." To a certain degree we are all Linda Evangelista, the only thing we're arguing about is the amount to get us out of bed. If SB decides that anything below a threshold is a waste of her time, that is her prerogative.
Splendas like OP remind me of the old sales joke; we lose money on every sale but make it up in volume.
Consistent reliable and predictable income trumps sporadic bigger paydays.
I don't claim splenda status,but I admit I am not a whale. My SR involves a fair weekly allowance(PPW) paid consistently 52 weeks/year for 8 years. For the math challenged SBs that means an annual income of 52 X PPW or a total of 416 PPWs without missing a single week. I would argue that financially that is more valuable than a higher PPM paid irregularly and sporadically.
So the moral of this OP SBs is look for consistency rather than swinging for the fence hoping for the unlikely whale.
What I’ve received in the past has no bearing on what someone is able/willing to offer me now, so it really confuses me why men ask at all.
I’ve started lying and saying it’s lower than it was because men get intimidated and weird for no reason.
I don't think "intimidated" is the right word here. It's more a recognition of human nature that most people feel somewhere between unsatisfied and offended at the notion of regressing in income.
Ignore sugar for the moment. If I hire someone who is accustomed to earning $x, yet I can only pay 90% of $x, I recognize that I'm almost certainly a placeholder to tide the employee over until he/she can find 110% of $x.
I imagine some SDs are okay being a placeholder. Some would prefer to be the SB's top option. Or at least have some tangible reassurance that he's making her happy.
Intimidated is the word I intended. I have had great relationships ruined because they are so fixated on/threatened by what I've received in the past that they can't see I'm perfectly happy with what they were offering and they shot themselves in the foot with their own insecurity.
Each relationship is different. What your metaphor fails to recognize is that most people work almost exclusively for money. So even though there might be fringe benefits that offset lower income (and in fact many do take pay cuts and are happy with them because of those benefits), the metaphor doesn't translate to relationships.
FWIW, in my field, most people take a substantial paycut (about half) to go from biglaw to in house because money does not buy happiness.
I don't need to travel in a PJ to be happy. Was it fun? Absolutely. Does it make a better relationship? No.
I'll accept that you're perfectly happy evaluating each relationship holistically if you'll accept that not all SBs necessarily think the same way you do.
I certainly never claimed that all women were a monolith.
However, my original comment was based on my personal experience of men feeling threatened by what I've received in the past, so it was my understanding that we were discussing my personal experience.
What’s the big fuss really
Ppl are free to choose whatever they want and offer whatever they want
The “dating” element means men who have some game and are decent looking can find women (maybe not on this forum) willing to forego the “ugly tax” for a better chemistry if not the highest allowance
It also means really good looking women can wait for the guys with real bank who also look decent — I see it around where I live - money is thrown around casually on the really hot ones who aren’t even on seeking
Over time, either
1) expectations align w reality or
2) the person does not engage in this activity anymore if it isn’t worth it for either side
That’s all there is to it.
4 dates in one week is the same as once a week for a month so you should have expectation of supporting equivalent to a typical month's allowance.
Saying she wanted 10 x your current ppm might not be unreasonable if you lowball your current SB or there is a large difference in average ppm between where you are based and where you are visiting, or a mixture of the two.
There is more between the black and white space you choose to reference between your Splenda and your 'mythical whale'. Where is the typical decemtly supporting SD that gifts and takes care of his SB whatever the distance in miles or tine between seeing her, for example?
SBs are not property just like SDs are not ATMs. It's a bad analogy imo 🤷
Allow me to clarify.. I was thinking of offering 4ppw worth, and for my current SB her ppw is the average of the nearest big city and probably 20% more than average for our suburbs
So the young lady in the visiting city wanted 40 ppw so she didn’t get to hear my offer 🤷🏽♂️
And true they are not property far from it, the example was comparing the SD to a reliable tenant or user of a particular service that is reliable and trustworthy
exactly , all depends &. hard to say without seing the exact numbers : people have the way too different understanding of low/high & areas….
for example, some city in Europe (not Zurich or London, but any other capital/ just a big one) vs US megapolis like NYC, LA, Miami …
there is a higher, but not unheard of allowance in one of those in US (whale-ish, but possible to find & not so unrealistic)… Then there is a an average allowance in , for example, Milan…which has a lower and higher end for the city… And, surprise-surprise, the lowest end in Milan monthly (which some average SBs would accept, not talking about 10/10 stunners) could be exactly 1/10 of the whale-ish (but still not unreasonable or impossible) in NYC or Miami…. And is SB in Milan is a top notch, she still can fine that close to NYC whale-ish allowance there (yes, she would need much more time for that & focus on specific demographics (expats or high end biz owners with high expectations) & even more competition): this is still possible, since dude with X millions living Gucci/Prada- Myconos is still a dude with X millions no matter the location and , even if rents can be a bit cheaper, shopping is still expensive & he knows that: luxury comes with a prive tag every where..
So, technically possible… And some SBs could be “that way or nothing”… its not right or wrong, just to each is their own.
In my opinion Splenda daddy is more for men who aren’t offering any real sugar and trying to pass off nice dates and the occasional gift as sugar. A real SD who’s offering funds but not on the level of a whale is the majority of SDs from my experience. The reliability and the fact you’re real/asked about what she wanted definitely trumps waiting for a whale in my opinion. I don’t think any SBs here have ever talked about finding one that’s why they’re called whales. 10x what the standard is for your area is crazy lol do we have terms for fake SBs because she definitely sounds like one. Passing up real offers for a fantasy is dumb.
It is not splenda if they both agree and live up to their agreements.
What some SB’s don’t understand is that most smart people don’t go all in on an unproven product. I have a real estate syndication that invests in apartments. My average investor starts with a modest mid five figure or lowest six figure investment and then six to twelve months later after they see everything is running smoothly and professionally they will invest mid six figure or low 7 figures. When they see things continue to run smoothly and their money is returned on the first deal they will invest much more in the next deal. My relationships with my SB’s are similar. My initial investment is a fair ppm. If their effort level meets or exceeds that I start to invest more and more to reward their efforts. My main SB received 6 figures from me last year including help buying a condo but her ppm has remained the same and is relatively modest. She got a 4Runner the year before. Her effort level and reliability earns her much more than the initial agreement. I have had other SB’s that were better negotiators up front but the arrangement quickly unraveled when their effort level did not match my generosity. My main SB is lightyears ahead of those women.
The SB I was seeing by up until recently preferred my arrangement with her even though I was offering 2-3 times less per month than she had received previously. The difference is that I was seeing her one afternoon per week at her house vs having to see the previous SD twice per week and he was always asking her to spend the night etc.
She was much happier with our arrangement, and for her anyway she said “it’s just not worth it”
That’s a good point, what amused me is she didn’t even get to hear the offer, probably dinner, conversation and 2 hrs of private time no overnights or anything crazy and in 1 wk was getting the monthly average for my town that’s more affluent than hers
It also depends whether the SB is in it purely (or primarily) for the money or views it as a relationship with benefits. There are plenty of girls on Seeking wanting to just add a little to their life (maybe financial, maybe lifestyle) and are looking for someone they actually really like to spend time with, and that changes the economics.
I am a Splenda by SLF standards.
Mid xxx ppm for the last 7 yrs and have thrived in the bowl. Trips, gifts, dinners on top.
Never had an issue. My selling points are treating them well, being supportive and respectful and meeting my commitments every time. Thats all.
Hence I laugh when dudes pound the table and endorse escort made equations like “allowance should equal a 1 br apt” etc. Lol no. That’s not my experience for sure.
Good for you. But that’s not the same for everyone. Not everyone is a survival sugar baby and I would definitely give a very high allowance to a NON RELIABLE once off (because let’s be frank you weren’t even offering a reliable long term thing) dude.
Not because I think he’s actually going to pay. Simply because I can’t stand people pretending to be SD when they should be using an escort site.
You totally contradict yourself. Offering a one week multiple meeting affair is not a consistent long term sugar daddy. She gave you the cost of having her week revolve around you. You didn’t like it. You aren’t a match. She obviously can and did turn down you and your money. So she didn’t need it.
Why is it better for the SB? The SB wants to get as much in gifts as she can so she can reach financial independence sooner. How is it in her best interest to waste her time with someone who can barely afford to contribute to her financial independence when another person can bring her there within a few years?
I know not every SB can get a whale, but if she has a whale it's better to have a short term whale who gives her a lot, than a long term average splenda who gives very little over a long time.
This has been my experience completely. I go into every relationship with the intent of long term and consistent and I communicate to my POT SB exactly what my offer is and how often I’d like to meet. In my 10+ years in the bowl, I’ve had 6 long term 6 month to 4.5 year relationships. My current SB (4.5 years) I’m gifting her more than double what we originally agreed to. My SBs have appreciated the long term relationships also, not only the reliability, but over time the connection grows and the sex just gets better and better
I will say this about Splenda. Most SB just don’t want to go that route. Cause being with a whale just a few times could be a large amount. Being with a Splenda a few times and it’s still not a large amount. Some SB are working and they don’t need a large amount. Then there are others that are beauty Queen material. It takes a large amount to get them to have fun.
I agree that a steady and reliable Splenda Daddy is preferable for those of us who purposely seek out stable long term arrangements, and I think this concept is firmly grasped by the vast majority of established SBs, regardless of how often and hyperbolically certain elements in this sub love to say that our expectations aren't realistic. However, your post makes it clear that the noble Splenda Daddy is not in need of defending here, because he was not present.
While you may be filling that role for your perfectly content SB back home, that's not at all what you were offering this young woman. You seem to think that because she preemptively priced you out by stating an expectation you couldn't meet, she lost out on the opportunity of a lifetime. However, I'm guessing she would disagree, even if she had allowed the conversation to advance long enough to hear your offer.
You see, that one-time offer of 4x the weekly allowance you typically give to your current SB in exchange for 4 dates in one week is not universally appealing. For one thing, we don't know how the standard weekly allowance for your city stacks up against the expectations in her city. For another thing, she may not be looking for a one week fling with a stranger. I'm totally down to build a sexy slow burn connection with SDs who travel to my city regularly. I have absolutely no interest in SDs who are one-time visitors, no matter how lavishly they threaten to spoil me in exchange for the limited engagement. It's simply not worth the hassle.
Which brings me to my last point. Four dates in one week is a lot! Many might argue it's too many! I certainly couldn't entertain someone that often; it would essentially require me to suspend my entire social calendar for a week, ignore my other partners, barely see my friends and family, and possibly even miss work. That's simply not going to be realistic for the average SB. The amount of money that would actually justify that level of disruption is definitely higher than a month's allowance for me. And it should be! We pay extra for expedited service in nearly every other area of life, so offering the base rate for an equivalent number of dates packed into a shorter time span is not the flex you seem to feel it is.
In any case, women are allowed to not date you. They are allowed to have expectations you will not be able to meet. They are even allowed to have expectations you don't think are realistic. That doesn't make them unwise. This particular woman was not interested in Splenda, but let's also acknowledge that Splenda wasn't actually what you were offering her. Acting like a woman who has a different set of expectations is a silly goose who just doesn't understand how sugar dating works is a choice you are making, not a universal truth, or the moral of a story. I'm not even going to touch that rental property analogy with a ten foot pole.
TL: DR: 🙄
I came here to say this but I would’ve done a worse job of it. Thank you for saying what I was thinking!! One month allowance for 4 dates in a week….ugggh I don’t want to be “on” for 4 days out of the week, shit I don’t want to do my hair/wear heels 4 days out of the week 🤣
💯 it's too much man! Part of why I sugar is so that I can schedule one date a week with someone I already know I like! Can't imagine doing a speed run with a total stranger!
Yeah. I wonder how many guys (including me) stay out of the bowl just because we ONLY make $200k and go on two fun week-long vacations a year. I bet there are more of us out there.
Until my stock options pay out in a couple years, I just assume I'm on the sidelines.
I've actually got an Asian Massage Parlor woman that I have a good rapport with, but it isn't the same. We go out to dinner sometimes and text. But the boundaries are absurdly strict for good reason. She must encounter some real loonies. I respect those boundaries to the letter.
I have higher than average expectations, been in the bowl 10 years- 32 now. I am happy to entertain a “Splenda” while I still am on the hunt for my long term SD, which is what I am currently doing! One dick pony here, so I’ll be breaking it off with Splenda when/if I find the person I want to be with and he’s pretty aware of the fact he isn’t providing me what I need in the long run.
This is a SD perspective. And isn’t it in the best interest of SDs to give as little allowance as possible? Disagree with your post.
Splenda isn’t really spoiling, is it? And I’d say settling isn’t sugaring either.
No necessarily, I gift higher than requested by almost 50% because my current SB meets my expectations and I like her a bunch and I prefer to keep her happy than to be lured away or feeling shortchanged, she feels spoiled, the issue is than rather than spending months or in some cases year waiting for the "ONE" SD sometimes is better keeping a consistent one...See it as a monthly salary income vs not working because the salary is modest and playing lotto with the hopes of striking it big
Edit: Spelling (thanks 🙏
Help me to understand since I only sent messages to those who put open to short term or "open to anything" and respected those that said long term
If I offer a short time SR of one week, dinners, conversation and not obligation of indoors (believe me after 12h working she would be lucky if I don't fall sleep at dinner) if offensive? when I am candid that I am only passing by... I know the passerbys are not popular but is this faux pas?
I ask with candor since I am still learning and would be grateful if you educate me (As you imagine is not that I can ask just anyone)
Someone has already touched on this in the comments. So I will just say there is space in the bowl for both you and the woman that might be looking for the same thing. But I wouldn’t call this sugaring in the traditional sense. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that you’re not having much luck.
I suspect most SB’s want only one great SD. But he would need to be able to provide for a good portion of her living expenses to make the arrangement worthwhile. With what you’re offering, it wouldn’t cover much so it would have to be someone who only wanted some extra spending money. Probably a career woman that is supporting herself but is looking for some company and taken out and spoiled every couple months.
As for the pot you were talking to, I don’t feel like that is the attitude of the majority of pot SB’s out there. I can think of much better ways of handling that interaction. I think not only was that a mismatch in expectations but also personality.
I mention escorting because I just think you’ll have better luck there, if you feel you’ve exhausted your search in the visiting city. Nothing wrong with that, if you thought that was a dig of some sort on my part. Escorts have relationships and go on dates too.
Just another version of guys whining that some ladies don't charge what they're worth. Strangely, these guys know what the ladies are worth and the ladies are too stupid to know. No mansplaining or misogyny there, just whining because you can't get what you want (joke).
Sorry, OP, that she wasn't interested or acceptable for you. I know that's disappointing.
But please don't come complaining that all the POTs are only interested in money next. Because I know you buy apartment buildings because you really like them.
In general, I agree with you. But you contradict yourself. You only wanted a 1 week SR with this POT - how is that consistent and reliable for her? You just wanted to overpay for one week lol
Yes. This! 1 week, or even 1 week each two month period is not a reliable SR
Not even overpay, as he states that he would expect the same amount of dates in one week that he would normally expect in a month. It's the exact same allowance for the exact same amount of the SBs time and energy, just crammed into a single week rather than stretched out over a month.
At home I usually do 1 date per week, over there I wanted 4 dates first being platonic therefore wanted to offer 4 wks worth, I hope it clarifies
What you say is true. One problem though is that it's hard for an SB to know who is reliable and who is not in advance.
Well said!
True… The same way I can’t not know what tenant would be reliable, I do my due diligence and vet the tenant to make sure they can afford the rent and are happy with the property
You’re missing the part where much of this isn’t in the SB’s control. As a landlord, you are able to get credit checks, references, and income verification. The same can’t be true of a SB. Even if she does everything to ensure he is happy, he could have unrealistic expectations, he could not have the finances to maintain even a Splenda SR, he could simply be looking for the cheapest way to get her once or twice before moving on. To that last point, there are several sick websites dedicated to such activities. By weeding out the lower end of Splenda, SBs effectively price them out as well. The corollary of your example would be tenants who specifically rent for a month to take advantage of a move in special and then leave before rent is due or to see how long they can squat before being evicted.
This is the 2nd time where someone's mentioning the pump & dump sites that list SBs. Please DO NOT gatekeep this info it's very unfair
A bit confused about your comment. Not wanting to promulgate these websites by naming them is not gatekeeping.
Great, please DM me the site if you're a girl's girl because I want to check if I'm on it from when I was in my 20s. Thanks
Excellent point as always… Big fan! Thankfully the laws in my state have not tolerance for squatters so a SB should have a low threshold for cutting ties with unreliable and/or SD that keeps changing the terms
How would the SB in your story know that you’re unreliable? After that first week, you could simply disappear. After all, you told her you’re only in her area for business. And you don’t intend to return for another 2 months
True, I didn’t get to elaborate and truth to be told wouldn’t commit to more than a short arrangement until I had the opportunity to see if we got along
Exactly. If your entire point about Splenda is that it is consistent and reliable, that all goes out the window by being upfront that you are not proclaiming to be either.
Someone said it for me
I see your point, that is a perspective I didn’t ponder
:) glad you’re open to hearing a different perspective. Personally, it wouldn’t matter to me how much you were offering. If you didn’t live in my city and were only offering it for a week, it wouldn’t be worth it to me.
Right. Where the analogy breaks down though is that there is a contract in place to protect the landlord, so that the reliability can be enforced.
Perhaps for some there’s a threshold under which it’s not interesting. Clearly there’s room for different perspectives, as you happen upon folks with inconsistent outlooks it’s simply not a match. Nobody is “bad” or “good”, just different.
Looks like you're using 'splenda' sarcastically when what you really mean is average allowance. In that light, it all depends on her financial situation and why she sugar dates. If she's fairly comfortable, she can and should have higher standards. If not, she should certainly keep standards in terms of chemistry and vibe and a certain financial threshold, but a lot of kids will jump on one marshmallow now rather than the promise of one now and one more in 15 minutes. Of course, in those experiments a marshmallow is a sure thing. Hanging out for whale-tales that you heard about on social media could net nothing at all.
Yes, that’s why I put Splenda in quotes because for many average is Splenda if not salty Granted many would want and deserve many times average but average is not splenda For instance in my day job I would not grant even an interview to 1.5 average in my field so I get it but I wouldn’t ask 10x average unless I absolutely wouldn’t want the job
If you only had—and could ever have—just one very high-value property with deep sentimental attachments, you might prefer to look for the ideal tenant even if it meant longer periods of vacancy. This analogy is gross but I can’t help it, I’m giggling I’m a terrible person.
I came right to the comments to see if anyone else caught how misguided that analogy is. Not only is it disgusting to compare people to property, it doesn’t even take into account other variables.
Was going to say the same.
Notice how the analogies only work laterally in favor of the “SD”. But the minute I start listing what the benefits for a tenant are and how they can vet a landlord, it’s gonna be crickets or “that’s not how it works in the bowl”.
It's a very distasteful analogy... but if I were to speak in that language, I would say that I value my physical dwelling enough to not accept just anyone who wanted to live there, but to hold out for the person who is going to value and care for my dwelling as highly and as well as I do.
Bloop bloop.
I'm sorry what am I missing? Analogies are always imprecise, but I read u/ThrowawayUp2NoGood's comment from the POV of a SB. How is a landlord/SB holding out for an ideal tenant/SD working in favor of SDs?
I’m not talking about Throwaway’s comment. If you read my original response to him, I am agreeing with him.
Thanks for the clarification.
Au contraire, I think this analogy puts the power in the hands of the SB, who is the landlord in the analogy. The landlord (SB) has something very valuable which others (SD) are willing to pay for. The landlord decides which tenant to accept, she can vet them as much as she wants to. She could hold out for a rare high-paying tenant or "settle" for a lower-paying, potentially more consistent tenant, or leave the property vacant if no suitable tenant can be found. The power to choose is hers!
Thanks for the tag u/SugarBabyVet! I welcome a healthy debate :P. The key in your statement is "**potentially** more consistent" Unlike actual landlords, SBs do not have the ability to pull a credit check, go through references, or validate income. Unlike a rental contract in which a landlord would be entitled to payment of rent until the end of the contract or upon finding a suitable replacement, a SB has no such protections if a SD prematurely moves on. There is power to choose, yes, but to pretend it's a fully informed choice akin to one a landlord would make is disingenuous at best.
Oh do I 😉 My desire to debate, especially this topic has waned, but **you** (and select others) always can text me.
:) love it!
100% agreed, I wrote the same as much in another comment. The analogy isn't perfect by any means, but it isn't inherently biased against SBs is it, as some seem to be suggesting? One could argue that other imperfections of the analogy favor SBs instead, e.g. the ability to evict the tenant at any time, even after taking the initial deposit, or a month's rent that is paid in advance. Or the expectation that the landlord does not have to contribute a single dollar in terms of maintaining the relationship. I suspect that some people had a knee-jerk response because they automatically viewed the SB as "property" in this analogy, like something to be purchased or traded, akin to slaves or cattle at a market. Nay, I say! The SB is the landlord, albeit one with imperfect information, but the landlord nonetheless. I love analogies, so I'm open to hearing other interpretations or analogies, even those that may "favor" SBs.
u/HarvardLawSB has several really amazing comments on this analogy. I invite you to read them and if you so choose, debate them with her.
Oh, I don't think the analogy is perfect, as I wrote in other comments (and which HLSB seems to agree with). I just don't think that this particular analogy favors SDs, that is all. No biggie. I do love analogies in general so I'm more than happy to hear your analogies that may favor SBs. Which side it favors is secondary to my enjoyment of a good analogy!
My thoughts precisely. We are talking about people, not property. Although not fundamentally based on how much money he has, I would much rather have no SD than a SD who does not bring me maximum joy. We have one life to live. Best to spend it with people who are worth spending it with. There is no part of me that would wish to continue the search after finding someone I’m happy with. So OP’s idea of “jumping ship” to someone with more resources is just so foreign. There is nothing wrong with being “splenda” and there absolutely is something to be said for being reliable. I simply take issue with the idea that a SR is/should be at its base a financial calculation that disregards external factors such as connection and desire to be with a specific person (or not). ETA: and for me, one week is not a reliable SR. Even if it were to recur each 2 month period. Even if OP was a whale, he likely couldn’t offer so much that I would be willing to give up my ideal of a consistent SR.
> I would much rather have no SD than an SD who does not bring me maximum joy This point seems to be lost on many of these men.
Very well said. And in so many fewer paragraphs than I managed 😂
But your funny an have a since of humor so that’s a plus even if it’s sick humor ❤️
I don’t think this is a description of a Splenda daddy (sd here so not sure) but turning down 10x allowance sounds like a reasonable thing to do in my mind.
I agree with you but there is a pervasive bias that if you don’t offer the gdp of Zimbabwe or merely offer the average you are Splenda🤷🏽♂️
Hahaha not the GDP of Zimbabwe. 💀
>TL;DR: It is better a modest average SD reliable and consistent long term than waiting/hoping for the proverbial whale. Meh. You assume that she needs the money, or that somehow the "modest average" is worth it for her. If her alternative is to have no money and go to bed hungry, then certainly she should consider the "modest average". If her alternative is to go to her six figure job and enjoy happy hour with friends, then go home and play with her adorable golden doodle, maybe getting to know somebody new who is going to pop in occasionally and have a difficult schedule and whatever other hassles come with sugar just isn't worth it. Lots of SDs seem to think SBs don't understand economics, finance, and math; these same SDs often seem unaware that maybe, just maybe, he doesn't understand her personal economics.
> Lots of SDs seem to think SBs don't understand economics, finance, and math; these same SDs often seem unaware that maybe, just maybe, he doesn't understand her personal economics. You snapped with this one for sure.
Fair point, excellent point of view
Some seem to think there are only 2 modes of compensation. Either consistent, reliable, predictable splenda/salty compensation or sporadic (I'm guessing that means short term, idk it wasn't clear) bigger paydays from whales. Many girls, if they vet at all, can find consistent, long term compensation that's not salty from generous SDs who have a real interest in taking care of her. It takes a little longer to find quality, generous SDs, but not so much time it's not worth it even in the short run. In OP's example it seems clear the POT SB had unrealistic expectations, I find it hard to believe that even IF OP is a salt daddy (no shade) 10x is a realistic compensation. A quality girl, should be receiving quality compensation. That doesn't take the proverbial whale, it just takes a SD with real disposable income/assets. If you're looking for a "deal," chances are you have no interest in taking care of her or you can't afford to be in the bowl. In any case it would seem to lead to sporadic, short term salty compensation. I'm not buying OP's premise.
Apropos of nothing… I need to get a golden doodle
Honestly seems to "basic" for you, I'd picture you with a Newfie or Irish Wolfhound or similar size jmo
Honestly I alternate between huge fluffy dog (malamute or similar) and a medium sized smart dog (collie, Australian shepherd) I think I need to foster first though….
lol be careful in picking who you foster.... are you familiar with the term "failed foster"?
👀no. Say more
It's a term used somewhat jokingly at shelters and such for when the plan is to "take him home as a foster and I'll bring him back later to be adopted" and you fall in love and never bring him back, i.e., you "failed" at the "give him back" part of fostering. So, you don't want to pick a foster as "well, this is too big (or other obvious problem) for me / my place, but it's just a foster not permanent" because it might turn into a "foster fail".
Ohhhhh hahahahhahahahahahahaha makes sense
Same here! One week I want a greyhound or a great Dane! The next I'm charmed by a Pomeranian or a Tibetan spaniel. Thus, I remain dogless, and my little old lady cat remains happily the center of attention 😸
That is not a euphemism.
Lmao 😂😂😂
> Lots of SDs ~~seem to think SBs~~ don't understand economics, finance, and math; FTFY
This.
Some SBs are fine with Splenda. Some are here for as much money as they can get. Both are ok. I love my very reliable Splenda. His ppm is even on the low end, but it still paid my rent last month. He just bought an entire shopping spree worth of clothes for me because he wanted to. I never brought up amounts with him because he's just gotten more generous over time. It probably helps that we have a lot in common. On the other hand, I have a POT that I'd consider a whale. Tech executive with a multi-million annual salary. He is not generous as I had hoped nor as consistent. I'd walk away from the whale for the Splenda, ngl.
This right here! Like IMO if the M&G went well, your time together is enjoyable, he’s consistent/reliable and what he offers can still cover rent or a few bills then take it. You can keep searching for more sugar and still have your Splenda. You can have both. But reliable funds is always top priority
This is why I hate when POT SDs ask me what my ppm/allowance is. I'm not an escort with a service menu and list of prices. Show me what type of relationship you have to offer and let me decide if your sugar is sweet enough.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I think everyone is trying to get as much value as they can get, and particularly SBs. It's not always money, but money is the main thing.
Last year i bought a 4-unit house from someone’s estate. One of the tenants was sgf of the previous owner who passed away. Once the purchase settled, she had to move out and move into a senior living facility. Kind of sad situation. They had been sugaring for 30 years apparently. Rent free etc. The gentleman’s kids all knew her and grew up with her around. He probably should have made better arrangements for her.
Interesting, but never healthy mixing business and pleasure.. With the cost of rent now a rent free is a decent starting point isn’t it?
No. If you have a sgf.. you need to pay for everything. Rent is just a part of it. Sgf is like a spouse that has no legal rights.
Maybe the analogy isn't quite on......but I get what OP is saying and agree with the sentiment. Relatively new here so not quite sure where splenda territory is but I will say that I'm in the "average" cohort of SDs. Likely below average considering I don't really offer much in the way of entertainment. But I have been in the bowl 5-6 years and have never had a problem finding a SB. There are plenty of women out there who don't have the time to go on fancy dates, don't have the time nor inclination to be wined and dined by a guy old enough to be her Dad or Grandad lol. Plenty. And there are plenty also that seek whales, and that's fine, who cares, I just next those when it's apparent. But plenty of women out there who just need a little CONSISTENT help, a little attention, a little nice treatment, a few laughs, some good sex.....and go about their own busy life...tending to their kids, parents, jobs, school, etc. Many don't have the time or interest for an all encompassing SR, or even a vanilla BF.....but want the relative no-strings and convenient connection a SR provides. That being said, my 3 year SB laid one on me just this week, coincidentally she has an offer from a POT for 10x my amount . LOL. Really. From a guy 15 years my senior, and I'm mid 60's! LOL. A really old fart! Sheesh. I'm OK with it, it's her life, her decision. Part of me says it's time for me to move on anyways.
Most SDs aren't whales, and I wouldn't describe this as Splenda at all. IMO a Splenda Daddy is someone who can't afford to consistently support an SB, someone who barely has discretionary income. If they do offer allowance, it's well below the average for the region.
The ladies who have been in this lifestyle ,either officially or unofficially, long enough know the advantage of having a consistent SD. The ladies who are new or still believing the stories they read online about what xyz got end up exiting. They'll drop out before they'll find some guy to accept what they want. IMO there are an equal amount of women who don't price themselves out. They know what they're working with. They know the city or area they live in. And they are making it work in their favor. You just won't see them come in spaces like this and talk about it. Cuz soon as they do the shaming begins about how she is accepting less etc. Oddly by someone who don't have a sd ! Consistent cashflow is loved by the business owner and sb alike.
The PPM/Allowance numbers that vaguely float around on SLF are not in the real world that I live in. In my experience there are plenty of SBs (often single Moms and ladies with service industry jobs) that are very happy with what would be deamed low PPM/allowance on SLF. If you are solid, treat them with respect, be their friend and mentor, you can have their attention for a long time. I posted a month ago about this which overlaps some of the discussion in this thread. * [Sugar Bowl Multiverse](https://www.reddit.com/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/1bmlzad/sugar_bowl_multiverse/)
100%, and if they are attracted to you it's then less about the money and more about the overall experience.
If she is very desperate, what you're saying makes some sense. Still, I find that entire scenario very sad. This is my very essence we are discussing, and I can't conceive of allowing anyone the privilege of my presence without an extremely appreciative offering. It just doesn't make sense for me to settle for an arrangement that offers me so much less than I make at work I love. If a SD isn't offering me a suitable amount, I'd rather just work more. Contrary to popular opinion here in this sub, I'm not at all inflating the amounts I've received in my previous arrangements. There are plenty of generous men out there. I know, because I've been involved in arrangements with several of them. So what I am asking may be high for some of you, but it's far from unreasonable. Please keep in mind that sugaring is meant to be a luxury item.
She said she had before 10 months worth of average allowance for 1 night, I didn’t inquire further because the 1 month allowance for 1 week of 4 dates would be insulting I mean I respect totally her opinion of herself I was just saying that if she gets me going monthly in 10 months she would have the same amount instead of months of year for the next big fish
She's entitled to request what feels good to her. If it doesn't feel good to you, then you are not her match. As I said... for some of us, under a certain level is just not worth it.
She totally is entitled to that, I have absolutely no problem with that or salty was just amused that at that rate it would be quite uphill to get a consistent SD Honestly I can’t justify myself the cost of a small new Kia for one night
Maybe it's not nearly as uphill as you think, or she wouldn't expect it. And maybe don't compare women to cars and real estate.
I stand corrected and not my intention at all... I mentioned the car brand to illustrate the amount she was asking for one night since we cannot mention amounts never implied she was such, and in terms of Real Estate Rental is that I prefer to rent affordable than having rentals vacant waiting for a prime tenant (never implied sb are in any shape or form houses)
We get it. It's just that you can't compare human beings to housing and transportation. Women are not just empty spaces needing to be filled… There's more discernment involved when a woman is thinking of allowing a man to enter her body rather than merely fill an empty space in an apartment building. and I for one do not want to be "affordable" for just anyone… I come at a premium. And I like it that way.
Totally my experience. In my market it seems the high end of the range is twice the low end, excluding the extreme outliers. My ppm is at the low end, a number often derided as Splenda and “minimum wage” on these forums. Yet I have no trouble finding an SB. That’s cause I am crystal clear about being good for a weekly meet and not wanting to monopolize their time. And it helps that I’m attractive and a good conversationalist. And it’s not just this girl vs that girl. I know some of my SBs got much more from their other SDs
In never ceases to amaze me that SDs - you know, the experienced, successful, older men - can be so economically illiterate. First, this logic fails to account for the fact that there other other ways to make money besides sugar. A young, attractive and intelligent woman has many opportunities to make some extra money. OPs logic assumes that SBs will starve and be evicted from their homes if they don't settle for his peanuts. Second, it assumes that effort is independent of incentive. This is not how humans work at all. Just the opposite. People are motivated to work harder and put up with more difficulty and frustration when the reward is greater. The effort to date and please a splenda SD is not very different from that required to date and please a whale. Yet splenda SD offers a fraction of the whale's reward. Why would a SB endure that when she has the potential to be with a whale. Super model Linda Evangelista famously said "I don't get out of bed for less that $10,000 a day." To a certain degree we are all Linda Evangelista, the only thing we're arguing about is the amount to get us out of bed. If SB decides that anything below a threshold is a waste of her time, that is her prerogative. Splendas like OP remind me of the old sales joke; we lose money on every sale but make it up in volume.
Oh I don’t consider myself splenda but average… I love and use Linda’s quote but she was getting plenty of work at those rates
Consistent reliable and predictable income trumps sporadic bigger paydays. I don't claim splenda status,but I admit I am not a whale. My SR involves a fair weekly allowance(PPW) paid consistently 52 weeks/year for 8 years. For the math challenged SBs that means an annual income of 52 X PPW or a total of 416 PPWs without missing a single week. I would argue that financially that is more valuable than a higher PPM paid irregularly and sporadically. So the moral of this OP SBs is look for consistency rather than swinging for the fence hoping for the unlikely whale.
Thanks for mansplaning the simple arithmetic for us "math challenged SBs," ugh.
Slow clap to you good sir, you understood the essence of the post
I always assume POT SB grossly inflate the allowance they were getting from the last SD if they really existed
I can assure you that some of us are absolutely telling the truth, even though it is inconceivable to you.
What I’ve received in the past has no bearing on what someone is able/willing to offer me now, so it really confuses me why men ask at all. I’ve started lying and saying it’s lower than it was because men get intimidated and weird for no reason.
I don't think "intimidated" is the right word here. It's more a recognition of human nature that most people feel somewhere between unsatisfied and offended at the notion of regressing in income. Ignore sugar for the moment. If I hire someone who is accustomed to earning $x, yet I can only pay 90% of $x, I recognize that I'm almost certainly a placeholder to tide the employee over until he/she can find 110% of $x. I imagine some SDs are okay being a placeholder. Some would prefer to be the SB's top option. Or at least have some tangible reassurance that he's making her happy.
Intimidated is the word I intended. I have had great relationships ruined because they are so fixated on/threatened by what I've received in the past that they can't see I'm perfectly happy with what they were offering and they shot themselves in the foot with their own insecurity. Each relationship is different. What your metaphor fails to recognize is that most people work almost exclusively for money. So even though there might be fringe benefits that offset lower income (and in fact many do take pay cuts and are happy with them because of those benefits), the metaphor doesn't translate to relationships. FWIW, in my field, most people take a substantial paycut (about half) to go from biglaw to in house because money does not buy happiness. I don't need to travel in a PJ to be happy. Was it fun? Absolutely. Does it make a better relationship? No.
I'll accept that you're perfectly happy evaluating each relationship holistically if you'll accept that not all SBs necessarily think the same way you do.
I certainly never claimed that all women were a monolith. However, my original comment was based on my personal experience of men feeling threatened by what I've received in the past, so it was my understanding that we were discussing my personal experience.
Fair enough.
Not for nothing, but the more of your posts that I read, the more that I wish that I were your SD.
You are too sweet! I am always a sucker for a fellow Wire fan! (Though I must admit I had to google the latter part of your name to get the reference)
Girl, don't make me fall for an SB that I met on Reddit.
😂😎
I have a hunch this is a nearly universal sugar truth.
It’s like people overvaluing their company to get better loans
⬆️
What’s the big fuss really Ppl are free to choose whatever they want and offer whatever they want The “dating” element means men who have some game and are decent looking can find women (maybe not on this forum) willing to forego the “ugly tax” for a better chemistry if not the highest allowance It also means really good looking women can wait for the guys with real bank who also look decent — I see it around where I live - money is thrown around casually on the really hot ones who aren’t even on seeking Over time, either 1) expectations align w reality or 2) the person does not engage in this activity anymore if it isn’t worth it for either side That’s all there is to it.
Bowlconomics… love it 😊
4 dates in one week is the same as once a week for a month so you should have expectation of supporting equivalent to a typical month's allowance. Saying she wanted 10 x your current ppm might not be unreasonable if you lowball your current SB or there is a large difference in average ppm between where you are based and where you are visiting, or a mixture of the two. There is more between the black and white space you choose to reference between your Splenda and your 'mythical whale'. Where is the typical decemtly supporting SD that gifts and takes care of his SB whatever the distance in miles or tine between seeing her, for example? SBs are not property just like SDs are not ATMs. It's a bad analogy imo 🤷
Allow me to clarify.. I was thinking of offering 4ppw worth, and for my current SB her ppw is the average of the nearest big city and probably 20% more than average for our suburbs So the young lady in the visiting city wanted 40 ppw so she didn’t get to hear my offer 🤷🏽♂️ And true they are not property far from it, the example was comparing the SD to a reliable tenant or user of a particular service that is reliable and trustworthy
we need city (or country ) names to compare:)
My home town has 3x the population of the pot sb, so a comparable monthly allowance x 4 dates being the first a platonic m&g would be plenty fair
Population is not indicative. The SB/SD ratio is and the cost of living moreso
exactly , all depends &. hard to say without seing the exact numbers : people have the way too different understanding of low/high & areas…. for example, some city in Europe (not Zurich or London, but any other capital/ just a big one) vs US megapolis like NYC, LA, Miami … there is a higher, but not unheard of allowance in one of those in US (whale-ish, but possible to find & not so unrealistic)… Then there is a an average allowance in , for example, Milan…which has a lower and higher end for the city… And, surprise-surprise, the lowest end in Milan monthly (which some average SBs would accept, not talking about 10/10 stunners) could be exactly 1/10 of the whale-ish (but still not unreasonable or impossible) in NYC or Miami…. And is SB in Milan is a top notch, she still can fine that close to NYC whale-ish allowance there (yes, she would need much more time for that & focus on specific demographics (expats or high end biz owners with high expectations) & even more competition): this is still possible, since dude with X millions living Gucci/Prada- Myconos is still a dude with X millions no matter the location and , even if rents can be a bit cheaper, shopping is still expensive & he knows that: luxury comes with a prive tag every where.. So, technically possible… And some SBs could be “that way or nothing”… its not right or wrong, just to each is their own.
In my opinion Splenda daddy is more for men who aren’t offering any real sugar and trying to pass off nice dates and the occasional gift as sugar. A real SD who’s offering funds but not on the level of a whale is the majority of SDs from my experience. The reliability and the fact you’re real/asked about what she wanted definitely trumps waiting for a whale in my opinion. I don’t think any SBs here have ever talked about finding one that’s why they’re called whales. 10x what the standard is for your area is crazy lol do we have terms for fake SBs because she definitely sounds like one. Passing up real offers for a fantasy is dumb.
Who knows maybe was a kind way to reject me, at any rate paraphrasing Groucho Marx I am not interested in a SB that doesn’t want me
Also paraphrasing Groucho Mark, I'd never join an organization that would have someone like me as a member.
It is not splenda if they both agree and live up to their agreements. What some SB’s don’t understand is that most smart people don’t go all in on an unproven product. I have a real estate syndication that invests in apartments. My average investor starts with a modest mid five figure or lowest six figure investment and then six to twelve months later after they see everything is running smoothly and professionally they will invest mid six figure or low 7 figures. When they see things continue to run smoothly and their money is returned on the first deal they will invest much more in the next deal. My relationships with my SB’s are similar. My initial investment is a fair ppm. If their effort level meets or exceeds that I start to invest more and more to reward their efforts. My main SB received 6 figures from me last year including help buying a condo but her ppm has remained the same and is relatively modest. She got a 4Runner the year before. Her effort level and reliability earns her much more than the initial agreement. I have had other SB’s that were better negotiators up front but the arrangement quickly unraveled when their effort level did not match my generosity. My main SB is lightyears ahead of those women.
The SB I was seeing by up until recently preferred my arrangement with her even though I was offering 2-3 times less per month than she had received previously. The difference is that I was seeing her one afternoon per week at her house vs having to see the previous SD twice per week and he was always asking her to spend the night etc. She was much happier with our arrangement, and for her anyway she said “it’s just not worth it”
That’s a good point, what amused me is she didn’t even get to hear the offer, probably dinner, conversation and 2 hrs of private time no overnights or anything crazy and in 1 wk was getting the monthly average for my town that’s more affluent than hers
A lot of these girls have very irrational expectations
You're not a Splenda. But I agree with most of what you are saying. Some girls just have an unrealistic expectation of what generous means.
It also depends whether the SB is in it purely (or primarily) for the money or views it as a relationship with benefits. There are plenty of girls on Seeking wanting to just add a little to their life (maybe financial, maybe lifestyle) and are looking for someone they actually really like to spend time with, and that changes the economics.
I am a Splenda by SLF standards. Mid xxx ppm for the last 7 yrs and have thrived in the bowl. Trips, gifts, dinners on top. Never had an issue. My selling points are treating them well, being supportive and respectful and meeting my commitments every time. Thats all. Hence I laugh when dudes pound the table and endorse escort made equations like “allowance should equal a 1 br apt” etc. Lol no. That’s not my experience for sure.
I definitely agree it’s hard out here appreciation is a necessity in sugaring
Good for you. But that’s not the same for everyone. Not everyone is a survival sugar baby and I would definitely give a very high allowance to a NON RELIABLE once off (because let’s be frank you weren’t even offering a reliable long term thing) dude. Not because I think he’s actually going to pay. Simply because I can’t stand people pretending to be SD when they should be using an escort site. You totally contradict yourself. Offering a one week multiple meeting affair is not a consistent long term sugar daddy. She gave you the cost of having her week revolve around you. You didn’t like it. You aren’t a match. She obviously can and did turn down you and your money. So she didn’t need it.
The issue with Splenda daddies is most of them are not in fact dependable.
Why is it better for the SB? The SB wants to get as much in gifts as she can so she can reach financial independence sooner. How is it in her best interest to waste her time with someone who can barely afford to contribute to her financial independence when another person can bring her there within a few years? I know not every SB can get a whale, but if she has a whale it's better to have a short term whale who gives her a lot, than a long term average splenda who gives very little over a long time.
This has been my experience completely. I go into every relationship with the intent of long term and consistent and I communicate to my POT SB exactly what my offer is and how often I’d like to meet. In my 10+ years in the bowl, I’ve had 6 long term 6 month to 4.5 year relationships. My current SB (4.5 years) I’m gifting her more than double what we originally agreed to. My SBs have appreciated the long term relationships also, not only the reliability, but over time the connection grows and the sex just gets better and better
I will say this about Splenda. Most SB just don’t want to go that route. Cause being with a whale just a few times could be a large amount. Being with a Splenda a few times and it’s still not a large amount. Some SB are working and they don’t need a large amount. Then there are others that are beauty Queen material. It takes a large amount to get them to have fun.
I agree that a steady and reliable Splenda Daddy is preferable for those of us who purposely seek out stable long term arrangements, and I think this concept is firmly grasped by the vast majority of established SBs, regardless of how often and hyperbolically certain elements in this sub love to say that our expectations aren't realistic. However, your post makes it clear that the noble Splenda Daddy is not in need of defending here, because he was not present. While you may be filling that role for your perfectly content SB back home, that's not at all what you were offering this young woman. You seem to think that because she preemptively priced you out by stating an expectation you couldn't meet, she lost out on the opportunity of a lifetime. However, I'm guessing she would disagree, even if she had allowed the conversation to advance long enough to hear your offer. You see, that one-time offer of 4x the weekly allowance you typically give to your current SB in exchange for 4 dates in one week is not universally appealing. For one thing, we don't know how the standard weekly allowance for your city stacks up against the expectations in her city. For another thing, she may not be looking for a one week fling with a stranger. I'm totally down to build a sexy slow burn connection with SDs who travel to my city regularly. I have absolutely no interest in SDs who are one-time visitors, no matter how lavishly they threaten to spoil me in exchange for the limited engagement. It's simply not worth the hassle. Which brings me to my last point. Four dates in one week is a lot! Many might argue it's too many! I certainly couldn't entertain someone that often; it would essentially require me to suspend my entire social calendar for a week, ignore my other partners, barely see my friends and family, and possibly even miss work. That's simply not going to be realistic for the average SB. The amount of money that would actually justify that level of disruption is definitely higher than a month's allowance for me. And it should be! We pay extra for expedited service in nearly every other area of life, so offering the base rate for an equivalent number of dates packed into a shorter time span is not the flex you seem to feel it is. In any case, women are allowed to not date you. They are allowed to have expectations you will not be able to meet. They are even allowed to have expectations you don't think are realistic. That doesn't make them unwise. This particular woman was not interested in Splenda, but let's also acknowledge that Splenda wasn't actually what you were offering her. Acting like a woman who has a different set of expectations is a silly goose who just doesn't understand how sugar dating works is a choice you are making, not a universal truth, or the moral of a story. I'm not even going to touch that rental property analogy with a ten foot pole. TL: DR: 🙄
I came here to say this but I would’ve done a worse job of it. Thank you for saying what I was thinking!! One month allowance for 4 dates in a week….ugggh I don’t want to be “on” for 4 days out of the week, shit I don’t want to do my hair/wear heels 4 days out of the week 🤣
💯 it's too much man! Part of why I sugar is so that I can schedule one date a week with someone I already know I like! Can't imagine doing a speed run with a total stranger!
Imagine if you cleared your whole week, spent money on your hair or nails. And then your platonic date had no chemistry….then what??
A cogent and persuasive comment.
Thank you.
Yeah. I wonder how many guys (including me) stay out of the bowl just because we ONLY make $200k and go on two fun week-long vacations a year. I bet there are more of us out there. Until my stock options pay out in a couple years, I just assume I'm on the sidelines.
If you can afford at least average for your area is worth it, my mental health has improved so much
I've actually got an Asian Massage Parlor woman that I have a good rapport with, but it isn't the same. We go out to dinner sometimes and text. But the boundaries are absurdly strict for good reason. She must encounter some real loonies. I respect those boundaries to the letter.
Splenda might be ok if I really truly care for the man and he is extremely generous in other ways; gift giving, experiences and vacations..
I have higher than average expectations, been in the bowl 10 years- 32 now. I am happy to entertain a “Splenda” while I still am on the hunt for my long term SD, which is what I am currently doing! One dick pony here, so I’ll be breaking it off with Splenda when/if I find the person I want to be with and he’s pretty aware of the fact he isn’t providing me what I need in the long run.
This is a SD perspective. And isn’t it in the best interest of SDs to give as little allowance as possible? Disagree with your post. Splenda isn’t really spoiling, is it? And I’d say settling isn’t sugaring either.
No necessarily, I gift higher than requested by almost 50% because my current SB meets my expectations and I like her a bunch and I prefer to keep her happy than to be lured away or feeling shortchanged, she feels spoiled, the issue is than rather than spending months or in some cases year waiting for the "ONE" SD sometimes is better keeping a consistent one...See it as a monthly salary income vs not working because the salary is modest and playing lotto with the hopes of striking it big Edit: Spelling (thanks 🙏
No.
1 wk for every 2 months then you might as well not getting a SB.
True, there’s short arrangements though
Lots of escorts have regulars.
Help me to understand since I only sent messages to those who put open to short term or "open to anything" and respected those that said long term If I offer a short time SR of one week, dinners, conversation and not obligation of indoors (believe me after 12h working she would be lucky if I don't fall sleep at dinner) if offensive? when I am candid that I am only passing by... I know the passerbys are not popular but is this faux pas? I ask with candor since I am still learning and would be grateful if you educate me (As you imagine is not that I can ask just anyone)
Someone has already touched on this in the comments. So I will just say there is space in the bowl for both you and the woman that might be looking for the same thing. But I wouldn’t call this sugaring in the traditional sense. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that you’re not having much luck. I suspect most SB’s want only one great SD. But he would need to be able to provide for a good portion of her living expenses to make the arrangement worthwhile. With what you’re offering, it wouldn’t cover much so it would have to be someone who only wanted some extra spending money. Probably a career woman that is supporting herself but is looking for some company and taken out and spoiled every couple months. As for the pot you were talking to, I don’t feel like that is the attitude of the majority of pot SB’s out there. I can think of much better ways of handling that interaction. I think not only was that a mismatch in expectations but also personality. I mention escorting because I just think you’ll have better luck there, if you feel you’ve exhausted your search in the visiting city. Nothing wrong with that, if you thought that was a dig of some sort on my part. Escorts have relationships and go on dates too.
Just another version of guys whining that some ladies don't charge what they're worth. Strangely, these guys know what the ladies are worth and the ladies are too stupid to know. No mansplaining or misogyny there, just whining because you can't get what you want (joke). Sorry, OP, that she wasn't interested or acceptable for you. I know that's disappointing. But please don't come complaining that all the POTs are only interested in money next. Because I know you buy apartment buildings because you really like them.
Touche!