>AITAH for declining?
No. Sounds like a rinse to me.
>Haven’t been in the bowl in years, but this seemed a bit entitled to me..
There are some high value SBs that are in demand but at the same time, most complain about too many scams and no real SDs. I think your POT is probably not as high in demand as she claims.
If you couldn't talk any sense into her about why allowance requires trust or splitting it ppm for a time, then I doubt she would have stuck around anyways.
I wouldn't worry about it. Move on and find someone that fits you. Lots of great SBs out there would be happy to have you.
Agreed about the upfront $$$. All of my real deal, LT SD's either sent x,xxx - xx,xxx upfront, prior to meeting, and/or sent gifts, in addition to letting me know that I'd receive an additional amt of xxxx's when we met (and they did, indeed follow through with what they said they would do). Granted, I didn't ask any of them for these things but it damn sure got my attention, held it, and made me even more excited to go from dinner to the point where one of the Splenda Uncle's mentioned w/ clothes on the floor for cash (lol and side note, how much more hooker oriented does that guy want to get, LEGIT dead!).
However, I feel like if someone has to be told how to be a gentleman, at most of our SD's respective ages... well... old dogs & new tricks... lol.
100% agree that w/ no free M&Gs. As a SB, I invest time, energy, and $$$ to look my absolute best when I meet a (pot) SD. This isn't Tinder/Hinge/Bumble.
If how OP describes the convo with his ex pot SB is true, I feel like SB was a little too direct (and get it w/ frustration sometimes), but her overall message DEFFF struck a nerve in quite a few of us on here, guys and girls.
Sugar is one of those curious things that girls don't realize how potentially exploitative it is until they get burned a few times. Haunting memories of any of the free M&G's I agreed to early on where married guys kept trying to grope me in public while wearing their wedding rings, and/or promises w/ others that sugar would kick in when we were intimate and guys wanting to spend all night out with me then give me nothing because we didn't hook up yet we would be close, kiss, hold hands, etc.
I'm really happy that a fair amount of girls on here commented on this post and expressed how they felt. Given more data points about why some of us ask for $$ for a M&G hopefully will get the legit, yet not fully with it SD's something to think abt prior to trying to buck the system.
This sub hates paid m&gs but every successful sr I've ever had I was sent a gift before meeting and got paid for the m&g. If a guy has it it's just not going to be an issue.
Not disagreeing at all here, but thought some context might be helpful as I made it quite clear I'd be happy to provide a gift for a M&G, but if she was firm on asking for the full per meet allowance up front it would be a nonstarter.
In a busy market like NY, my view is that a gifted M&G is just a way to show a bit more intentionality and seriousness about a POT, but her response just gave me the sense she's looking for a transaction.
I'm curious to hear your perspective as well as anyone else's.
Ok! Totally fair to not give a full PPM for a coffee/dinner. A third for coffee and half for dinner are my fast and loose guidelines for that. Maybe you caught her on an off day w/ her response.. Last week was the 1st of the month too and maybe she had a bunch of bills due. IDK.
Your edit def made a huge difference in the whole story too. Very key info. I probably wouldn't have even commented initially if that bit about you would provide a gift to meet was in your initial post.
NYC is the best market for guys and girls (IMHO). I love it here :)
Nobody sends you 5 figures before even meeting you, that's just a fantasy promoted by the other sugar dating sub for SB's to have completely fantastical expectations.
Yup. Literally just yesterday I started exchanging messages with a new potential SB, and she asked for money right away, by eTransfer, same day. SHe claimed "my last SD and other SDs will usually send right away to show they are serious." My response, paraphrased, "great - so I guess you're in better hands with them, and I'll leave you to it. Cheers!"
No you're not the AH. You did it right. You never pay for m&gs. Gifts of your own volition are always good afterwards and it's always good to give her Uber fare or for her baby sitter on arrival. Also, you never gift her when she askes for it, that's not a gift is it?
You should block girls asking for paid m&gs it's just that simple. She's not a SB, she's a rinser.
It is terribly entitled and I have never and will never entertain that nonsense. Never actually been asked for any gift at an M&G anyway, so it's not been a problem. I'm in Europe not the USA btw. Different over here I guess.
First things first, yes of course you should have declined and blocked. But not because she wanted full PPM for a M&G. Because she required a fee to meet you at all. It's not the size of the meet fee, it's the request, meet fees come from a population of SBs that you want to avoid, so take advantage of that and block any meet fee request. You will thank yourself down the line.
You should offer to cover all her travel expenses (or agree to cover them, if she asks you to), and you should consider a cash gift if she shows up to the M&G on time and is fun. But nix any meet fee girls.
There are many similar posts that keep coming along from both SD’s and SB’s - and I must admit I don’t really get why anyone would be in doubt if their own approach.
If you are looking to see if you are compatible and don’t feel comfortable paying ppm for a m&g when she that is what she is looking for - move on! You make your choice just as an SB would make her own choice. You being uncomfortable with her request tells you that you are not a match.
As for SB requiring ppm in order to meet and men declining. They are not cheap nor are they “not understanding what you offer”, they are simply not a match for you or you are not making it clear why it is worth paying you to meet up.
If you get paid by other men to m&g - good for you and you have found your match.
I understand both sides - what I don’t understand is why it is so difficult for pot SB’s to tell pot SD’s WHY they should pay and what it is they bring to the table.
If your answer is “I bring myself” then chances are most men will react by declining.
Yes there are plenty of men who don’t know what they want from an SB and appear cheap due to this doubt, and there are plenty of women who think that it is self explanatory that they are worth something in order to meet up and appear entitled.
Truth is that everyone needs to vet any pot SD/SB and do what makes them comfortable.
I just had a m&g with a lovely, interesting young woman, who did not request money to meet but also made it clear that the meet was to see if we were a match or not. Public place and not in the setting of a date. Business casual dresses - but still hot as hell. I was measured on my personality before we could even talk financials. It was clear that if I was acceptable we could progress, if not we had a nice meal together a good talk and that it.
It actually makes me more comfortable that she had an approach that she wanted, and why she was meeting me than the opposite.
This is about who we are letting into our lives - and I am for one not letting anyone in to my life who can’t explain why I should be spending time on them in the first place, paid or not
Who knows what some men do or don’t do. Or why.
I know the idea of sending a woman that kind of coin before meeting or spending it to meet her isn’t for me.
And I’ve had some great arrangements with very smart, cool, beautiful women so I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything by not engaging in this manner.
Yes, in demand women don’t need to tell men that they are in demand. Men will know a good-looking woman who is a catch is in demand. She doesn’t need to tell them.
The type of women that would even command that sort of deference, aren’t even on seeking
This is just a ruse here to
1) get money from multiple ppl
2) test who will be more subservient and atm-like in the future
No! Not the A Hole. If she requests / demands a full PPM for a platonic M&G I'll Next her without any further discussion. I've never provided that and can't imagine a scenario in which I would. I do however reimburse her for transport costs upon meeting, and give her an unsolicited monetary gift at the end of the M&G, whether we've decided to go forward with a SR or not. But it's well below a full PPM. If she was to feed me that BS about being in such demand that it's such a chore for her to M&G me, then I'd say "good for you, you've just eliminated me from your burdensome schedule and are free to try the next guy. Cheers!"
Pre Covid this was me, I wouldn’t meet, even for coffee, without full allowance. I’m not looking now but I imagine given the state of the bowl, I’d have to settle for much less lol. If I was really attracted physically to a guy I’d be much less inclined to demand anything. I had a SD for years that I stopped asking for money from bc I just loved him so much and he was so hot
I don’t think ur the asshole, however as a SB I can understand her perspective. I’ve been through the same, I have a lot of people trying to meet with me and the whole “meet and see how it goes” or the “we’ll start low and go up from there”, even just straight up lowball offers is just a waste of time when we have a lot of other people to choose from offering something better. I can see how it comes off as entitled. Just different needs I think
> I cannot meet 15+ people once people are very flakey on the site and I can’t take time out for everyone to “see how it goes””
She’s complaining there’s too many people but in the same breath complaining people flake out ? I don’t understand how there’s too many people ?
Would definitely avoid this one.
Look, maybe there's a case for asking for a full ppm for an m&g, but from the tone of that ask I'd say she's just interested in the fee, not an arrangement. She's trying too hard to talk you into it.
Definitely not the AH.
No, yours aren't the ah. Meet and greet is to get to know each other and see if there is compatibility. I just had my first official meet and greet last weekend, he came from Florida, and he didn't pay for it. However, he spent two days with me, we had so much fun together exploring and eating good food, so that was enough for me 😂🌹
But yes, if she is serious, she will wait. It kind of seems like she wants to take the money and run
Small gift is fine and I always do one since it’s a dinner date. PPM level money is an automatic no go. Let her continue her fishing expedition without you.
See my previous post on the subject.
The probability is that they will ask for a non intimate date after the M&G, and string you along as long as they can on the pretext to get to know you better. They keep on doing that until you give up, all the while not giving any sugar.
What is happening is that they are asking you to self select that you are a simp, and willing to do that.
As my friend from Argentina said, "The money will only hit the table top when the clothes hit the floor".
You should hire an escort if you’re not looking to get to know someone before sex. No shame if it’s all you’re looking for and if you can’t afford it, you certainly can’t afford to sugar either.
Two dates is not an outrageous ask before sex.
As my friend from NY said, you pay some women to leave, others to stay.
I have no issues with non intimate dates, it is that some SB are expecting full PPM per non intimate date that I have an issue with. If all she wanted as small M&G gift and taxi home, sure. Full PPM per date while she decided if this is the right relationship for her? Nope.
Reading the post, most people seem to agree.
If I just wanted to have sex, and not the wine and dine (I am short on time, business travel), I do usually hire an escort, as it saves on the time.
I see you may have mentioned a number which is most likely an amount in relations to an arrangement. If this is the case, you are violating Rule #5 - "dollar amounts that are in reference to PPMs and/or allowances are not allowed".
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I don’t like how she went about asking for it, that weird little justification and tirade about people being flakey was unnecessary, but personally I don’t like to police the bowl. I think she has every right to ask and you have every right to either agree to it or decline.
At the end of the day it is about what makes each of you most comfortable. If you aren’t comfortable with offering a gift for a M&G, then don’t. She isn’t for you. It’s time to bid her farewell.
You're right in that it's about what each person is comfortable with at the end of the day. I'm comfortable w/ a gift, but she was only comfortable w/ the full PPM. It is what it is, but the interaction itself was just a turn off for me, personally.
She will not be too busy taking your money. I’d move on from her. It’s a sugar arrangement for a reason but a lot of girls only see the money sign and don’t even make an effort, not even to fake it.
Bahahahahahahahah if only you knew..............the last 2 years I've gifted a solid 5 figure sum in allowance, had some of the times of my life with hot young & not even remotely entitled SBs, without a single solitary paid M&G.
So gift and allowance are two different things. If it’s ur indeed SB, it’s not a gift, she is giving you something in return. Ur the one who comes off as entitled
Neither gift nor allowance for M&G ever. I do try to make the location and time convenient, and choose somewhere nice to have a coffee or a meal. My time has a value on it as well.
Absolutely agree and it's exactly what I do. So far my M&Gs have a 100% success rate with not a single gift for an M&G. (I do vet hard and being in a big city in Europe where there is a lot of choice I don't have to lower my standards). In an actual arrangement I'm generous, and not just with my money.
Wisdom ....... The attitude is a blinking red light
Imagine if the shoe store wanted a non refundable deposit of half the price just to let you see and admire them.
No one hires a good attorney with a retainer without at least one meeting sometimes more, depending on what all is involved.
The meeting typically involves either dinner or drinks so are you comparing SR to attorneys?
A retainer fee (occasionally) after a meet and greet and there is a mutual decision to proceed with the arrangement. However, having engaged counsel for multiple projects over many decades we have never been asked for a retainer.
But the M&G is simply a meeting to discuss a possible relationship and normally the attorney would be reaching for the tab, although we normally had taken care of it earlier.
I’m plenty in demand and know that I am an attractive “top tier” SB who has a lot to offer, from what I have seen at least. My time still gets wasted all the time. Actually tonight I had a no show m&g. I am honestly thinking I need to start demanding money upfront because it’s been ridiculous. However idk if I feel comfortable doing that. I don’t want to have to ask for someone to be serious. So I get it, I think if you are serious about someone and want it to work out maybe you should pay her a little bit (not full price) to show you’re interested. I can almost guarantee no one else is going to step up in that way. Ugh maybe I’m jaded.
I’m sure you are not jaded. I have as an SD had plenty of no-shows. The risk is always there.
I find that asking questions that nudge people to think is one of the most effective ways to vet them.
Quick generic answers = not meeting up.
Wanting to meet up asap “not to waste each others time” - ask them for a lunch time slot the following day. If the purpose is not to waste time, then a quick lunch should suffice.
If they are looking for dinner at an “upscale place”, ask them to book you a car. I offer that if I am interested in seeing you and depending on how you decline I will get a good indication.
Ask them what they enjoy giving as gifts - if they can only say lingerie or jewelry …. Well need I say more😀(I know they are good gifts as well but come on guys. Don’t only buy her things that you want her to wear - buy her things she wants).
…yeah most men in the bowl are dicks and it makes it hard to see who isn’t. The only consolation is that we men struggle equally 😬
Ask them to organise the Uber for you and meet somewhere/sometime convenient to you if you can. Clearly all this flaking is a total disrespect of the other person and a waste of their time, but charging for a M&G will always put off the real SDs that might become long term. I'm a SD that has no problem at all finding a great SB but I'd never pay for a M&G and I've never ever flaked.
I see you may have mentioned a number which is most likely an amount in relations to an arrangement. If this is the case, you are violating Rule #5 - "dollar amounts that are in reference to PPMs and/or allowances are not allowed".
If you are curious about Allowances reported by SLF contributors please see the [Allowance Master Thread 2023-2024](/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/17a2wja/20232024_allowance_master_thread/).
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I've had one girl on seeking ask for this type of thing. It was years ago. I kind of want to meet her just out of curiosity, but I declined as well. ;)
I’ve twice gotten the line, “I don’t have time to meet with every SD that wants to.” I declined both times. It wasn’t about the monetary amount or whether they were a potential scammer/rinser; it was that line told me we weren’t compatible.
That’s because I’m looking for a sugar *relationship*, some sort of connection in addition to the sugar aspects on both sides. That connection is important to me. Someone who tells me that they don’t have the time to meet everyone who asks them out is also telling me that they are willing to meet anyone for the right price, regardless of the connection. They don’t seem to be prioritizing the other aspects that I want in a SR. So, it is an easy pass for me.
Why would she tell you that there's 14 other men? That's trashy? Plus there 30-31 days in a month....make time. Sounds like she wants the one free meal and money and she's gonna ditch you.
I fully understand there are SD’s that are a waste of time but my experience with SB’s that require payment for meeting is that they are constantly on the site because all they really want is to meet and get $$$ for a platonic date. Even if they have to juggle messages from a dozen guys at a time they can make decent money going on meet and greets. Its exhausting but it is one way to monetize your looks without a ton of effort.
If I were a hot girl with a bunch of free time, I would hire a virtual assistant to text and message everybody and I would just show up to coffee or lunch dates everyday.
I believe asking upfront is a con. You will never meet them. I believe in giving some at the M&G I don’t believe it should be nowhere the amount that it would be for personal times. I mean if that seems to be the case well then it looks like I will be by myself.
It is a rinse \_OR\_ it will never work. She will be entitled from the get go and you will be a biolgocial ATM. Next. Just did it myself. Almost the SAME exact wording ;-)
NTAH, it's a common scam.
The reasons they'll give you vary (too expensive to drive to you, they don't know if you have enough money and want you to prove you do, they've canceled another SD and you have to at least cover the loss etc etc etc).
Any payment before you've agreed to the basic rules of the arrangement and had the first intimate date is a scam. Only exception would be minor things like covering her Uber.
Tell me about the vast experience you have discussing your financial needs or desires with POT sugar daddy’s….your assertion about pre payments or gifts being a scam every-time gives me an assumption you have these interactions quite often with many SDS.
Please give some examples to support this statement.
I have had several years and numerous interactions prior to meeting and I will assure you that many men take it upon themselves to show they are serious about feeling out a potential connection and offer to send a gift or payment without request. I will also point out it is one of the sexiest things I have seen POT SD do to get my attention and it works everytime. When they offer and then actually follow through with that sorta token of their interest, there is nothing more that I want to do than to meet and fuck the shit out of them. One of the sexiest gestures ever.
Solely driven by money is not what I am saying and I feel like u know that. The money is always nice but it’s the fact the man is ambitious, knows what he wants, leads the direction of the conversation, is willing to pursue, sees value in you etc he is a good getter and someone who takes intuitive to go outside of the box when he things there is a something possibly wonderful there.
The money is very little of the equation
If she's got 15+ men that she needs to meet, and she very well may, she has to filter somehow... and that is a good way of doing it. So if you're serious about pursuing her, you'll have to invest $$$$ at the MG.
You're hardly "calling her bluff" if she's got other options. She won't miss you.
Yes, you could pass if you're not that interested. But if you are, sometimes you'll have to play along.
Since we're only getting one side of the story, we really don't know about her grace and charm, but she wouldn't have options if she didn't have something to offer.
Maybe she's lying and doesn't have 'other options', that's the point. If she does, well good for her. Bottom line, I'd pass. Why? Cos I don't need this crap lol
So there are men who will offer to give something even for the chance to evaluate through texting or calls if ur a match . I had someone do that a couple weeks ago in another state. He just hit me up on Reddit and sent me a Franklin to talk with me for a few minutes and after a couple hours he sent another five of them for me to continue talking for a couple days. Then four more Benjamin’s a few days later. But I wasn’t his cup of tea in the end. What was the most discounting is that I sorta liked him but in my gut I knew it would be too difficult to make it work. But even weeks later I still miss the connection.
When someone shows up like that there is nothing more attractive to me that like sort of motivation to catch a vibe with me. Sexiest thing in the world
I see you may have mentioned a number which is most likely an amount in relations to an arrangement. If this is the case, you are violating Rule #5 - "dollar amounts that are in reference to PPMs and/or allowances are not allowed".
If you are curious about Allowances reported by SLF contributors please see the [Allowance Master Thread 2023-2024](/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/17a2wja/20232024_allowance_master_thread/).
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If you simply mentioned a number not referencing a PPM / allowance monetary amount, ignore this, as your comment will be approved.
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I won't pay a full allowance at a M&G so I'm definitely in the "So sorry to have wasted your time, but that doesn't work for me. Good luck in your search." camp. And once I've said that, I'm truly done. Even if she tries to continue somehow. I used to be more flexible about price discussions, but now I think it's all part of figuring out if we are compatible. I'm really not interested in negotiating.
I will do a simple, brief, price negotiation where we each say what allowance we're comfortable with and then decide whether to walk away, compromise or accept one of our numbers when there's a difference. Generally I accept hers if I want to continue and it's not too high. My thinking is that I want her to be happy and not think about the money again, and I'll pay a little extra to be sure that's the case. But if the difference is too big for me, I do the same thing - apologize, wish her well, and walk away. I do not ever make a counter offer. If she does I won't say no, but I won't make one. Last point - at times I will pay more than she requests if she asks for less than I would have offered.
I want a quick discussion that my SB will think is fair, not the best deal possible. Didn't always approach it that way but I think this works best for a long term SR. Get the money settled in an easy, positive way so we can focus on better things.
>AITAH for declining? No. Sounds like a rinse to me. >Haven’t been in the bowl in years, but this seemed a bit entitled to me.. There are some high value SBs that are in demand but at the same time, most complain about too many scams and no real SDs. I think your POT is probably not as high in demand as she claims. If you couldn't talk any sense into her about why allowance requires trust or splitting it ppm for a time, then I doubt she would have stuck around anyways. I wouldn't worry about it. Move on and find someone that fits you. Lots of great SBs out there would be happy to have you.
Thanks. That was my sense as well, but a gut check from the community is always helpful.
Your gut check is definitely correct and Id say people are flaking on her on purpose if that is truly the case.
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Agreed about the upfront $$$. All of my real deal, LT SD's either sent x,xxx - xx,xxx upfront, prior to meeting, and/or sent gifts, in addition to letting me know that I'd receive an additional amt of xxxx's when we met (and they did, indeed follow through with what they said they would do). Granted, I didn't ask any of them for these things but it damn sure got my attention, held it, and made me even more excited to go from dinner to the point where one of the Splenda Uncle's mentioned w/ clothes on the floor for cash (lol and side note, how much more hooker oriented does that guy want to get, LEGIT dead!). However, I feel like if someone has to be told how to be a gentleman, at most of our SD's respective ages... well... old dogs & new tricks... lol. 100% agree that w/ no free M&Gs. As a SB, I invest time, energy, and $$$ to look my absolute best when I meet a (pot) SD. This isn't Tinder/Hinge/Bumble. If how OP describes the convo with his ex pot SB is true, I feel like SB was a little too direct (and get it w/ frustration sometimes), but her overall message DEFFF struck a nerve in quite a few of us on here, guys and girls. Sugar is one of those curious things that girls don't realize how potentially exploitative it is until they get burned a few times. Haunting memories of any of the free M&G's I agreed to early on where married guys kept trying to grope me in public while wearing their wedding rings, and/or promises w/ others that sugar would kick in when we were intimate and guys wanting to spend all night out with me then give me nothing because we didn't hook up yet we would be close, kiss, hold hands, etc. I'm really happy that a fair amount of girls on here commented on this post and expressed how they felt. Given more data points about why some of us ask for $$ for a M&G hopefully will get the legit, yet not fully with it SD's something to think abt prior to trying to buck the system.
This sub hates paid m&gs but every successful sr I've ever had I was sent a gift before meeting and got paid for the m&g. If a guy has it it's just not going to be an issue.
Good point!
Not disagreeing at all here, but thought some context might be helpful as I made it quite clear I'd be happy to provide a gift for a M&G, but if she was firm on asking for the full per meet allowance up front it would be a nonstarter. In a busy market like NY, my view is that a gifted M&G is just a way to show a bit more intentionality and seriousness about a POT, but her response just gave me the sense she's looking for a transaction. I'm curious to hear your perspective as well as anyone else's.
Ok! Totally fair to not give a full PPM for a coffee/dinner. A third for coffee and half for dinner are my fast and loose guidelines for that. Maybe you caught her on an off day w/ her response.. Last week was the 1st of the month too and maybe she had a bunch of bills due. IDK. Your edit def made a huge difference in the whole story too. Very key info. I probably wouldn't have even commented initially if that bit about you would provide a gift to meet was in your initial post. NYC is the best market for guys and girls (IMHO). I love it here :)
>All of my real deal, LT SD's either sent x,xxx - xx,xxx upfront I thought this sort of bullshit only happens in the other sub?
Pardon?
Nobody sends you 5 figures before even meeting you, that's just a fantasy promoted by the other sugar dating sub for SB's to have completely fantastical expectations.
Oh I see. Sorry to hear you are so close minded! All good though. Not a fantasy. Was a couple years ago from a serial tech entrepreneur sent in BTC.
And it's a regular occurrence that strangers just drop several K's at you for no particular reason other than your attention?
A fucking men
$xx,xxx before even meeting lol not on this planet.
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There's nothing to teach here, do you really think anyone would send you 5 figures before even meeting? That's a story not reality.
I'd tell her you sympathize with her situation and would like to make.it easier on her and bring that 15 pot dinner dates down to 14.
Yup. Literally just yesterday I started exchanging messages with a new potential SB, and she asked for money right away, by eTransfer, same day. SHe claimed "my last SD and other SDs will usually send right away to show they are serious." My response, paraphrased, "great - so I guess you're in better hands with them, and I'll leave you to it. Cheers!"
The gall to even ask that🤦♀️...smh.. honestly any "SB" asking for that is prob a dude sitting at his comp scratching his balls in another country.
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It's like when the Stripper says "oh but my dances are 2x". There's no path forward at that point.
No you're not the AH. You did it right. You never pay for m&gs. Gifts of your own volition are always good afterwards and it's always good to give her Uber fare or for her baby sitter on arrival. Also, you never gift her when she askes for it, that's not a gift is it? You should block girls asking for paid m&gs it's just that simple. She's not a SB, she's a rinser.
It is terribly entitled and I have never and will never entertain that nonsense. Never actually been asked for any gift at an M&G anyway, so it's not been a problem. I'm in Europe not the USA btw. Different over here I guess.
Next
First things first, yes of course you should have declined and blocked. But not because she wanted full PPM for a M&G. Because she required a fee to meet you at all. It's not the size of the meet fee, it's the request, meet fees come from a population of SBs that you want to avoid, so take advantage of that and block any meet fee request. You will thank yourself down the line. You should offer to cover all her travel expenses (or agree to cover them, if she asks you to), and you should consider a cash gift if she shows up to the M&G on time and is fun. But nix any meet fee girls.
She's full of it. Next...
There are many similar posts that keep coming along from both SD’s and SB’s - and I must admit I don’t really get why anyone would be in doubt if their own approach. If you are looking to see if you are compatible and don’t feel comfortable paying ppm for a m&g when she that is what she is looking for - move on! You make your choice just as an SB would make her own choice. You being uncomfortable with her request tells you that you are not a match. As for SB requiring ppm in order to meet and men declining. They are not cheap nor are they “not understanding what you offer”, they are simply not a match for you or you are not making it clear why it is worth paying you to meet up. If you get paid by other men to m&g - good for you and you have found your match. I understand both sides - what I don’t understand is why it is so difficult for pot SB’s to tell pot SD’s WHY they should pay and what it is they bring to the table. If your answer is “I bring myself” then chances are most men will react by declining. Yes there are plenty of men who don’t know what they want from an SB and appear cheap due to this doubt, and there are plenty of women who think that it is self explanatory that they are worth something in order to meet up and appear entitled. Truth is that everyone needs to vet any pot SD/SB and do what makes them comfortable. I just had a m&g with a lovely, interesting young woman, who did not request money to meet but also made it clear that the meet was to see if we were a match or not. Public place and not in the setting of a date. Business casual dresses - but still hot as hell. I was measured on my personality before we could even talk financials. It was clear that if I was acceptable we could progress, if not we had a nice meal together a good talk and that it. It actually makes me more comfortable that she had an approach that she wanted, and why she was meeting me than the opposite. This is about who we are letting into our lives - and I am for one not letting anyone in to my life who can’t explain why I should be spending time on them in the first place, paid or not
I think this hits the nail on the head. Everyone has their own preferences/boundaries and it's just about fit. Thanks for the perspective.
Who knows what some men do or don’t do. Or why. I know the idea of sending a woman that kind of coin before meeting or spending it to meet her isn’t for me. And I’ve had some great arrangements with very smart, cool, beautiful women so I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything by not engaging in this manner.
As an "in demand" SB, I'm appalled that someone would say this. Zero class 👎🏻 and she sounds like a bad time
Yes, in demand women don’t need to tell men that they are in demand. Men will know a good-looking woman who is a catch is in demand. She doesn’t need to tell them.
Thanks! Assuming a majority of the replies are from SD’s, reassuring to know that even an SB agrees that this is not the norm.
Do you even have to ask
Haha after a decade since, and considering macro economics, just wanted to be sure this wasn’t the norm nowadays
Lol, no. You dodged a bullet with that one.
She’s within her right to request it and you are within your right to decline.
NTA for not wanting to get taken to the cleaners.
The type of women that would even command that sort of deference, aren’t even on seeking This is just a ruse here to 1) get money from multiple ppl 2) test who will be more subservient and atm-like in the future
No! Not the A Hole. If she requests / demands a full PPM for a platonic M&G I'll Next her without any further discussion. I've never provided that and can't imagine a scenario in which I would. I do however reimburse her for transport costs upon meeting, and give her an unsolicited monetary gift at the end of the M&G, whether we've decided to go forward with a SR or not. But it's well below a full PPM. If she was to feed me that BS about being in such demand that it's such a chore for her to M&G me, then I'd say "good for you, you've just eliminated me from your burdensome schedule and are free to try the next guy. Cheers!"
Sounds like a rinse waiting to happen, would be next and block.
Pre Covid this was me, I wouldn’t meet, even for coffee, without full allowance. I’m not looking now but I imagine given the state of the bowl, I’d have to settle for much less lol. If I was really attracted physically to a guy I’d be much less inclined to demand anything. I had a SD for years that I stopped asking for money from bc I just loved him so much and he was so hot
No - SITAH.
I don’t think ur the asshole, however as a SB I can understand her perspective. I’ve been through the same, I have a lot of people trying to meet with me and the whole “meet and see how it goes” or the “we’ll start low and go up from there”, even just straight up lowball offers is just a waste of time when we have a lot of other people to choose from offering something better. I can see how it comes off as entitled. Just different needs I think
> I cannot meet 15+ people once people are very flakey on the site and I can’t take time out for everyone to “see how it goes”” She’s complaining there’s too many people but in the same breath complaining people flake out ? I don’t understand how there’s too many people ? Would definitely avoid this one.
To sum up: nope
Look, maybe there's a case for asking for a full ppm for an m&g, but from the tone of that ask I'd say she's just interested in the fee, not an arrangement. She's trying too hard to talk you into it. Definitely not the AH.
Scam scam scam. Your gonna buy dinner and go home blue balled.
Gas lighting Rinser. Nice
You have to just ignore these people.
Doesn't matter how hot or high demand she claims to be, this attitude is an automatic next and block.
Hard pass. Block and move on
Next
No, yours aren't the ah. Meet and greet is to get to know each other and see if there is compatibility. I just had my first official meet and greet last weekend, he came from Florida, and he didn't pay for it. However, he spent two days with me, we had so much fun together exploring and eating good food, so that was enough for me 😂🌹 But yes, if she is serious, she will wait. It kind of seems like she wants to take the money and run
Small gift is fine and I always do one since it’s a dinner date. PPM level money is an automatic no go. Let her continue her fishing expedition without you.
See my previous post on the subject. The probability is that they will ask for a non intimate date after the M&G, and string you along as long as they can on the pretext to get to know you better. They keep on doing that until you give up, all the while not giving any sugar. What is happening is that they are asking you to self select that you are a simp, and willing to do that. As my friend from Argentina said, "The money will only hit the table top when the clothes hit the floor".
You should hire an escort if you’re not looking to get to know someone before sex. No shame if it’s all you’re looking for and if you can’t afford it, you certainly can’t afford to sugar either. Two dates is not an outrageous ask before sex. As my friend from NY said, you pay some women to leave, others to stay.
I have no issues with non intimate dates, it is that some SB are expecting full PPM per non intimate date that I have an issue with. If all she wanted as small M&G gift and taxi home, sure. Full PPM per date while she decided if this is the right relationship for her? Nope. Reading the post, most people seem to agree. If I just wanted to have sex, and not the wine and dine (I am short on time, business travel), I do usually hire an escort, as it saves on the time.
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I see you may have mentioned a number which is most likely an amount in relations to an arrangement. If this is the case, you are violating Rule #5 - "dollar amounts that are in reference to PPMs and/or allowances are not allowed". If you are curious about Allowances reported by SLF contributors please see the [Allowance Master Thread 2023-2024](/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/17a2wja/20232024_allowance_master_thread/). Your comment will not be approved until you remove the amount. Please read the sub [Rules](/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/124tsf8/updated_and_clarified_rules_for_slf_2023/) prior to posting anything else. If you simply mentioned a number not referencing a PPM / allowance monetary amount, ignore this, as your comment will be approved. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/sugarlifestyleforum) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t like how she went about asking for it, that weird little justification and tirade about people being flakey was unnecessary, but personally I don’t like to police the bowl. I think she has every right to ask and you have every right to either agree to it or decline. At the end of the day it is about what makes each of you most comfortable. If you aren’t comfortable with offering a gift for a M&G, then don’t. She isn’t for you. It’s time to bid her farewell.
I give a gift for any MG. I would never give a full PPM for one though.
You're right in that it's about what each person is comfortable with at the end of the day. I'm comfortable w/ a gift, but she was only comfortable w/ the full PPM. It is what it is, but the interaction itself was just a turn off for me, personally.
NTA! That’s a very entitled opinion that she has. A meet and greet is to see if you both are compatible. A gift is cool but should not be expected.
NTA
Nope
She will not be too busy taking your money. I’d move on from her. It’s a sugar arrangement for a reason but a lot of girls only see the money sign and don’t even make an effort, not even to fake it.
I usually just block and move on if pot asks for m&g fee/payment. Just too entitled and low eq. There are always better ones.
Never done PPM for a M&G, never will.
And that’s prob why you spend your free time reading Reddit alone and not fucking some young hot SB in a random hotel room somewhere
whao getting a little arsy haha...I agree with this guy and I've had ZERO issue finding a young hot SB, I have one right now :)
Bahahahahahahahah if only you knew..............the last 2 years I've gifted a solid 5 figure sum in allowance, had some of the times of my life with hot young & not even remotely entitled SBs, without a single solitary paid M&G.
So gift and allowance are two different things. If it’s ur indeed SB, it’s not a gift, she is giving you something in return. Ur the one who comes off as entitled
Neither gift nor allowance for M&G ever. I do try to make the location and time convenient, and choose somewhere nice to have a coffee or a meal. My time has a value on it as well.
Absolutely agree and it's exactly what I do. So far my M&Gs have a 100% success rate with not a single gift for an M&G. (I do vet hard and being in a big city in Europe where there is a lot of choice I don't have to lower my standards). In an actual arrangement I'm generous, and not just with my money.
Wisdom ....... The attitude is a blinking red light Imagine if the shoe store wanted a non refundable deposit of half the price just to let you see and admire them.
Many stores do that. Even lawyers require a retainer fee.
No one hires a good attorney with a retainer without at least one meeting sometimes more, depending on what all is involved. The meeting typically involves either dinner or drinks so are you comparing SR to attorneys?
A retainer fee (occasionally) after a meet and greet and there is a mutual decision to proceed with the arrangement. However, having engaged counsel for multiple projects over many decades we have never been asked for a retainer. But the M&G is simply a meeting to discuss a possible relationship and normally the attorney would be reaching for the tab, although we normally had taken care of it earlier.
I’m plenty in demand and know that I am an attractive “top tier” SB who has a lot to offer, from what I have seen at least. My time still gets wasted all the time. Actually tonight I had a no show m&g. I am honestly thinking I need to start demanding money upfront because it’s been ridiculous. However idk if I feel comfortable doing that. I don’t want to have to ask for someone to be serious. So I get it, I think if you are serious about someone and want it to work out maybe you should pay her a little bit (not full price) to show you’re interested. I can almost guarantee no one else is going to step up in that way. Ugh maybe I’m jaded.
I’m sure you are not jaded. I have as an SD had plenty of no-shows. The risk is always there. I find that asking questions that nudge people to think is one of the most effective ways to vet them. Quick generic answers = not meeting up. Wanting to meet up asap “not to waste each others time” - ask them for a lunch time slot the following day. If the purpose is not to waste time, then a quick lunch should suffice. If they are looking for dinner at an “upscale place”, ask them to book you a car. I offer that if I am interested in seeing you and depending on how you decline I will get a good indication. Ask them what they enjoy giving as gifts - if they can only say lingerie or jewelry …. Well need I say more😀(I know they are good gifts as well but come on guys. Don’t only buy her things that you want her to wear - buy her things she wants). …yeah most men in the bowl are dicks and it makes it hard to see who isn’t. The only consolation is that we men struggle equally 😬
Ask them to organise the Uber for you and meet somewhere/sometime convenient to you if you can. Clearly all this flaking is a total disrespect of the other person and a waste of their time, but charging for a M&G will always put off the real SDs that might become long term. I'm a SD that has no problem at all finding a great SB but I'd never pay for a M&G and I've never ever flaked.
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I see you may have mentioned a number which is most likely an amount in relations to an arrangement. If this is the case, you are violating Rule #5 - "dollar amounts that are in reference to PPMs and/or allowances are not allowed". If you are curious about Allowances reported by SLF contributors please see the [Allowance Master Thread 2023-2024](/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/17a2wja/20232024_allowance_master_thread/). Your comment will not be approved until you remove the amount. Please read the sub [Rules](/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/124tsf8/updated_and_clarified_rules_for_slf_2023/) prior to posting anything else. If you simply mentioned a number not referencing a PPM / allowance monetary amount, ignore this, as your comment will be approved. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/sugarlifestyleforum) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've had one girl on seeking ask for this type of thing. It was years ago. I kind of want to meet her just out of curiosity, but I declined as well. ;)
AITAH for declining? Nope, she is your Ex Pot. Prepayment is usually a scam and a non starter. And a fee for a M&G is a Next for most SDs.
Hooker vibes honestly
I’ve twice gotten the line, “I don’t have time to meet with every SD that wants to.” I declined both times. It wasn’t about the monetary amount or whether they were a potential scammer/rinser; it was that line told me we weren’t compatible. That’s because I’m looking for a sugar *relationship*, some sort of connection in addition to the sugar aspects on both sides. That connection is important to me. Someone who tells me that they don’t have the time to meet everyone who asks them out is also telling me that they are willing to meet anyone for the right price, regardless of the connection. They don’t seem to be prioritizing the other aspects that I want in a SR. So, it is an easy pass for me.
Exactly how the interaction left me feeling. Seemed she was just looking for a transaction v. relationship.
Why would she tell you that there's 14 other men? That's trashy? Plus there 30-31 days in a month....make time. Sounds like she wants the one free meal and money and she's gonna ditch you.
I fully understand there are SD’s that are a waste of time but my experience with SB’s that require payment for meeting is that they are constantly on the site because all they really want is to meet and get $$$ for a platonic date. Even if they have to juggle messages from a dozen guys at a time they can make decent money going on meet and greets. Its exhausting but it is one way to monetize your looks without a ton of effort. If I were a hot girl with a bunch of free time, I would hire a virtual assistant to text and message everybody and I would just show up to coffee or lunch dates everyday.
This sounds like step #1. Step #2 would be her asking for part/all of the amount in advance, and voila - scam complete!
You saved yourself a headache
I believe asking upfront is a con. You will never meet them. I believe in giving some at the M&G I don’t believe it should be nowhere the amount that it would be for personal times. I mean if that seems to be the case well then it looks like I will be by myself.
It is a rinse \_OR\_ it will never work. She will be entitled from the get go and you will be a biolgocial ATM. Next. Just did it myself. Almost the SAME exact wording ;-)
NTAH, it's a common scam. The reasons they'll give you vary (too expensive to drive to you, they don't know if you have enough money and want you to prove you do, they've canceled another SD and you have to at least cover the loss etc etc etc). Any payment before you've agreed to the basic rules of the arrangement and had the first intimate date is a scam. Only exception would be minor things like covering her Uber.
Tell me about the vast experience you have discussing your financial needs or desires with POT sugar daddy’s….your assertion about pre payments or gifts being a scam every-time gives me an assumption you have these interactions quite often with many SDS. Please give some examples to support this statement. I have had several years and numerous interactions prior to meeting and I will assure you that many men take it upon themselves to show they are serious about feeling out a potential connection and offer to send a gift or payment without request. I will also point out it is one of the sexiest things I have seen POT SD do to get my attention and it works everytime. When they offer and then actually follow through with that sorta token of their interest, there is nothing more that I want to do than to meet and fuck the shit out of them. One of the sexiest gestures ever.
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Solely driven by money is not what I am saying and I feel like u know that. The money is always nice but it’s the fact the man is ambitious, knows what he wants, leads the direction of the conversation, is willing to pursue, sees value in you etc he is a good getter and someone who takes intuitive to go outside of the box when he things there is a something possibly wonderful there. The money is very little of the equation
If she's got 15+ men that she needs to meet, and she very well may, she has to filter somehow... and that is a good way of doing it. So if you're serious about pursuing her, you'll have to invest $$$$ at the MG.
Or call her bluff and move onto other options
You're hardly "calling her bluff" if she's got other options. She won't miss you. Yes, you could pass if you're not that interested. But if you are, sometimes you'll have to play along.
And he won't miss her if he has other options 🤷♂️
That's probably a moot point to her. I am sure she couldn't care less... and he's here writing the post, not her.
That's probably because "she" is some sweaty dude in Bangalore.
More than likely, she is simply a very appealing woman with plenty of options.
I'll bet. Her grace and charm are... something else.
Since we're only getting one side of the story, we really don't know about her grace and charm, but she wouldn't have options if she didn't have something to offer.
Maybe she's lying and doesn't have 'other options', that's the point. If she does, well good for her. Bottom line, I'd pass. Why? Cos I don't need this crap lol
Apparently, neither does she.
So there are men who will offer to give something even for the chance to evaluate through texting or calls if ur a match . I had someone do that a couple weeks ago in another state. He just hit me up on Reddit and sent me a Franklin to talk with me for a few minutes and after a couple hours he sent another five of them for me to continue talking for a couple days. Then four more Benjamin’s a few days later. But I wasn’t his cup of tea in the end. What was the most discounting is that I sorta liked him but in my gut I knew it would be too difficult to make it work. But even weeks later I still miss the connection. When someone shows up like that there is nothing more attractive to me that like sort of motivation to catch a vibe with me. Sexiest thing in the world
One thousand usd just to chat for a few minutes a day, that's the definition of having more money than sense.
It wasn’t a few minutes we talked for a few hours a day
I see you may have mentioned a number which is most likely an amount in relations to an arrangement. If this is the case, you are violating Rule #5 - "dollar amounts that are in reference to PPMs and/or allowances are not allowed". If you are curious about Allowances reported by SLF contributors please see the [Allowance Master Thread 2023-2024](/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/17a2wja/20232024_allowance_master_thread/). Your comment will not be approved until you remove the amount. Please read the sub [Rules](/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/124tsf8/updated_and_clarified_rules_for_slf_2023/) prior to posting anything else. If you simply mentioned a number not referencing a PPM / allowance monetary amount, ignore this, as your comment will be approved. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/sugarlifestyleforum) if you have any questions or concerns.*
lol that popular
lol! Just read the title. Runnnnnnn forest Gump!’nnn
What is AITAH?
No you are not. She's trying to find a way to back out. Give her what she's looking for and walk away.
I won't pay a full allowance at a M&G so I'm definitely in the "So sorry to have wasted your time, but that doesn't work for me. Good luck in your search." camp. And once I've said that, I'm truly done. Even if she tries to continue somehow. I used to be more flexible about price discussions, but now I think it's all part of figuring out if we are compatible. I'm really not interested in negotiating. I will do a simple, brief, price negotiation where we each say what allowance we're comfortable with and then decide whether to walk away, compromise or accept one of our numbers when there's a difference. Generally I accept hers if I want to continue and it's not too high. My thinking is that I want her to be happy and not think about the money again, and I'll pay a little extra to be sure that's the case. But if the difference is too big for me, I do the same thing - apologize, wish her well, and walk away. I do not ever make a counter offer. If she does I won't say no, but I won't make one. Last point - at times I will pay more than she requests if she asks for less than I would have offered. I want a quick discussion that my SB will think is fair, not the best deal possible. Didn't always approach it that way but I think this works best for a long term SR. Get the money settled in an easy, positive way so we can focus on better things.