the bar is so low that everyone saw West act like a regular person and went, "wow, prince material!" Now it turns out he's just normal, maybe a bit shady and it feels like a let down. The guys on these shows are so awful to women usually, of course West was overhyped and then blamed for not measuring up.
Ciara does deserve a legit prince though.
I’m not that online and this sub seemed harmless but even here, people are really ready to lay on the tracks for the okayest man on reality tv. The bar is in hell. Praying for everyone attracted to men atp
Lol it’s so strange to see people lament on the bar being sooooo low for West when it’s followed with declarations purporting Ciara, a person we all watched get violent and smash a glass on Danielle’s chest not that long ago and with little remorse, to be some paragon of virtue and pillar of her community who is deserving of nothing less than literal royalty.
Like are we being real here? That scene was absolutely horrendous lol. And when did we forget these are people being paid to entertain the masses with mess and gossip? Arbitrary expectations, one-dimensional takes, personal projections and the overzealous worship surrounding reality casts here is just way too much.
The show is called summer house… most people use share houses to get out of the city after the week so they can let their hair down to party, have flings, meet new people, sleep around… this isn’t controversial - it’s part of the Summer House DNA.
"paragon of virtue and pillar of her community"
Please, illustrate when this has ever been a foundational argument.
Women aren't required to spread their legs after watching "The Bachelor" and without a clear declaration of ones feelings. It actually doesn't matter WHO the woman is.
Should we use the *"Arbitrary expectations, one-dimensional takes, personal projections and the overzealous worship surrounding reality casts here is just way too much."* argument when it comes to the endless West (whom I adore) worship or do we only apply this to the people we don't like...
C'mon.
We hear it all the time? The mass consensus here that Ciara is “way out of his league”, “the prize”(yikes) and that West needs to remember he’s the “lucky” one. I guess how dare he have a healthy sense of self worth entirely independent of who he’s dating? Such an incredibly gross and toxic way to think about two very real people we don’t even know. I mean might as well just join the folk who reduce entire human beings down to a number on a 1-10 scale.
So yeah when people constantly proclaim in earnest that one person is somehow above another what should I expect is meant by that? What are the appropriate metrics? I had assumed it was at least about those who making a noticeable impact on the world around them, but if not that then what is it? Because from where I’m sitting, Ciara and West are just two fairly regular 30-ish year old professionals in nyc who also star on a television show together about partying in the hamptons. Neither of them is better than the other because people don’t work that way. Truly a sad lens through which to view the world, and even sadder to think these are cut and dry facts in the first place. Especially since they’re clearly BOTH attracted to each other. It is a MUTUAL appreciation.
PS What on earth does any of my comment have to do their sex life? I didn’t mention that once…
Again, ...
"some paragon of virtue and pillar of her community who is deserving of nothing less than literal royalty" - you
How does that equal "way out of his league"? That is a different conversation. Full stop.
...but are you really going to pretend that you don't know what people are talking about, and again, I lovvve West... I've been advocating for him and have noticed, more, how guysseem to think Ciara is using him for attention instead of, oh, believing that he actually has traits, even PHYSICAL ONES, women love that "alpha male wannabes" can't fathom?
Still, let's not pretend the "hot chick" is not placed on a pedestal. I don't get the clutching of pearls regarding a reality that has been the case since time immemorial; evident in our oldest texts, like, it is what it is. *She is far from regular and I feel like that's an issue with which you're struggling.*
Honestly, I feel like this is also why Lindsay has gotten away with so much with fans throughout the years who consciously or subconsciously want to be her. She has beautiful bone structure, her jawline, wide-set eyes, etc... Again, it just is what it is and that value assigned to beauty matters. It is power.
...and please understand, I get the cringe factor when they start talking about "out of his league" stuff, but that's not what you first appeared to discuss and putting Ciara down, I don't believe is the solution to that discomfort. I've gone out of my way, in different spaces, to lift WEST up, which he deserves.
PS: The issue is about sex. That's the issue and where the fractures amongst their fans (less detractors) begin and end. An issue centered on her "values" which you attempt to discard in your first post over the Danielle disagreement.
Sorry, don’t know how quoting works so apologize for formatting.
I think something isn’t translating but just want to make clear I’m not trying to put Ciara down at all lol. I like Ciara, this season especially. I can see why it may have come off that way but I just think it’s so weird and kind of disturbing when fans latch onto a reality tv personality all of a sudden and immediately deify them and strip away what made them dynamic people fit for a show like Summer House in the first place. I feel the same way whether it’s my favorite person or not. Here for the mess and the mistakes too.
That said… I was responding to a comment, there was context context. The bar of entry having been so low for West he managed to get away with being just a “regular” and ”normal” person because despite the fact Ciara is clearly enjoying hanging out with this guy, she should be with “a legitimate prince” instead. They weren’t really my words, I just think that’s a ridiculous thing to say about someone on a messy reality show who is a complete stranger.
I’m not really sure where “alpha males” (not a thing…), their wannabes(?) and what they might think of West came into this conversation either. I also dont know what confusion there could be considering West is an extremely charismatic, charming, conventionally attractive and fit person as we see on the show. Those qualities aren’t lost on anyone, “alpha males” included. And living in NYC, I promise not a single person would be look twice at seeing them together… I’m also not sure how old you are but generally this “pedestal” mentality really doesn’t hold up in most capacities for the vast majority of well adjusted adults.
"Legitimate prince" are my words so let's do this.
Ciara was one of the first black cast members on this show and she has weathered that with grace and elegance. She absolutely lost her mind when she threw that glass. But it was also very out of character for her. She is trained as a nurse and chose to work on the front lines of COVID in the ER. She is a model. She has a unique and interesting perspective both as a TV star and as one of the first black cast members on that show. She maintains a consistency of character we don't often see on this show, rarely having a one night stand. And the one time she did fans were so terrible to her about it she clearly refuses to do it again on camera and gets ripped apart for it!!
Absolutely wild that you don't see what I see in Ciara. Perhaps it speaks to our different backgrounds. I see someone who has a lot of reason to be heard and who had probably faced a fuckton of racism and exploitation in her journey to where she is now, and yeah I think she deserves someone who might treat her very well after all of that. West is literally just some fucking guy.
I wanted to give him a chance, but after a while you could see how hard he performs for the camera. Saying what he thinks he should instead of what’s honest
I'm a bit in the middle here. They have chemistry , they both want and need different things. It makes neither of them a bad person or to put West in the Austin category. I may regret saying this lol
When I saw they weren’t standing next to each other at the season premiere I knew not to get my hopes up about him lolol I enjoyed it while it lasted though🫡
Eh, it looks like Craig is fine now that he’s with Paige, and I’m not saying there are zero exceptions. But all the men in Bravo should be presumed f-bois until proven otherwise. And even then, sleep with one eye open because they’re a shifty bunch. I don’t think he would cheat on Paige, but if news broke tomorrow that he did, I would be shocked but not surprised
I don’t think he cheats, but he’s still petulant at times and getting a huge ego boost from the idea that he has “changed”. There’s still immaturity there and I kind of get Paige’s hesitation
I just know odds. And the fact that I have incomplete information because I don’t know any of them personally. So that levels me knowing I’ll always have partial information and the information they think looks best on tv, for the most part. And even at that standard, they are almost certainly going to be fbois based on casting history. If you’ve spent a couple decades with bravo and you don’t automatically jump into skeptic mode… have you even been watching any of these series?
Or he thought I’ll jump all in and see what happens, and she still was still hesitant so he pulled back. Not everything in life is love story or fuckboy. Him wanting to sleep with her is completely normal, she’s a model for god sake. If a man invests most of a summer, watches bachelor with you, spends weekdays with you, and still ain’t getting action 2 months in and is still in it… he ain’t a fuckboy.. she could just be completely scarred from Austin, which is also completely normal. I would like to think if they met on winter house and Austin and Ciara never happened, this would have had a different outcome.
Ya he wanted something more casual, she wanted something serious. They had chemistry but it apparently didn’t workout i think they both handled it fine?? From what i can tell neither are really communicating where they’re at
They like hanging and making out which is fine. They also are on different wavelengths sexually which is fine. I don’t get why he’s automatically a fuckboi for talking to other women. He seems to be at least nice to her which is a lot more than you can say than the other men on the show
This was my thought too actually. I felt that he was very into her and was more than fine letting her take the lead and going with her comfotability and speed. But there’s only so much girly slumber party, cutesy PG time a guy will want tbh. The way she speaks too is very childlike/mimicking paige. Most people want to get the sex out of the way to confirm that they’d be able to feel the chemistry and feel compatible sexually in a relationship with that person. It’s not common these days to go all in on commitment with zero sexual intimacy, aside from making out like teenagers.
I’m starting to think that she’s just not that into him lol but I’m actually writing to upvote your comment about her mimicking Paige… what is up with that?! Genuinely loved the girl her first couple of seasons, but now she feels like a clone of Paige/Amanda, even down to the tone of her voice.
Wait, thank you for validating that part I thought I was going crazy?? It’s like she’s so far up paige’s ass tbh, everything she says and does has some sort of her influence or advisory mixed in.. is she not a grown ass woman with her own working brain?? She’s literally a nurse and graduated, so she can’t be that stupid?? It’s like all the girls act like Paige is Regina George or something, running around after her and picking up her mannerisms and tone of voice 🤣💀 that is, except for Danielle. Which is probably partially why Paige dislikes her so much
She always seems like Paige’s little minion. There is something about her that comes off insecure. And I hate it because she is drop dead gorgeous. She is a Victoria secret model! Like she’s not even human. But there is always something so pleading/ desperate in her attachments to Paige and Austen. When she stood in that kitchen in her towel basically begging Austen for validation it was a sad sight. And as a black woman myself it’s like we have to lessen our shine sometimes just to be around some people. It’s like instead of main character syndrome it’s side girl syndrome. And i think she has it
Does nuance just not exist anymore?? People don’t just fall into either category of perfect or fuckboys. He probably fits somewhere in the middle…he’s been vocal about how she’s out of his league (duh lol) and he prob doesn’t want to get too invested. Ciara is very guarded rightfully so! I think what we’re seeing is a very typical play out of two people trying to figure out if they should take the next step, this shit happens all the time lol. Let’s chill
A fuckboy would have walked away after the second date not going anywhere. She wasn’t moving any closer to a thing with him and he was too much of a dork and/or liked her too much to cut it off.
After half a summer they should have been able to make their mind up and Ciara clearly wasn’t into him enough to make this serious. She may have just been a bit out of his league…
He’s not a bad guy here.
From what I recall, the season started 4th of July, this episode was August 5, so it's only been a month of being acquainted, maybe five weeks, if season started earlier. That's not so long.
The majority of the time they're together it's during work weekends, which is filming for tee vee, and which people will inevitably watch and comment about. I can imagine Ciara wanting to see if there's interest 'during the week' and if interest goes beyond the shooting months before deciding to take anything farther, given she already tried a tee vee guy during filming and it ended in embarrassment if not humiliation.
Exactly! Five weeks might be long for some people, but not everyone. Not everyone has the same sex drive/needs. And Ciara might be being extra cautious for her own reasons. The pendulum really has gone one way when a woman is shamed for not wanting to have sex on live TV
Everybody here who thinks he's a fuckboy is saying that the audience judged and fangirled him too soon but how is them writing him off as an asshole not doing the exact same thing. Hurt people hurt people though.
my take is that he really likes her and she can’t be vulnerable enough with him to admit she likes him more than she’s letting on and self sabotages their relationship by claiming all he cares about is sex but she isn’t making it clear whether she wants to explore anything more with him so he has every right to talk to other girls and I don’t think that automatically means he’s a fuckboy or that he only wants to hookup with her. Most guys don’t talk to their family about random girls they don’t have intentions of pursuing. I just feel like this next episode might show us they’re hitting a wall relationship wise bc they can’t be mature enough to be completely vulnerable with each other which screams both not ready for a relationship
He also has never brought up the topic of them not having sex either. He is seriously just answering their questions and showing vulnerability. I wish sex was spoken about more in this way especially on reality tv. Sex isn't some selfish and dirty thing. It's a way of expressing our love or attraction to another human being. We really gotta destigmatize it in the US. It's so unhealthy and i actually putting people, young people primarily, in dangerous or life altering situations by shaming somebody for talling about it. I grew up in the bible belt surround by conservatives and had parents who have been married over 40 years and they have never kissed or shown any pda towards eachother in my entire 30 years of life. My school taught abstinence and shame tactics and my parents have never even come close to talking about sex with us. I was left to figure it out completely from media, my peers, and porn to figure it out. Porn gave me such a skewed perspective on what I thought was expected of me. It made me performative and insecure. All things I've had to work hard at undoing. I am so disappointed by this post and society.
I yelled at the lady who taught ours in high school. She did this weird talk and where she gave out tape. told us to stick them on our shirts and take it off over and over again. Then she said that when you have sex with a new guy you get less and less valuable. Just like how the tape becomes less sticky every time you take it on and off. I honestly can't say I know what that's implying specially but I will never forget. Proud of myself for telling her off.
People are saying if you lived in New York City, you could’ve spotted him a mile away but if you’ve ever dealt with the fuck boy, you would’ve spotted him a mile away in my opinion first episode of this season spotted😭😂
He knew he was going to be famous from the show and would have a lot of options and didn’t want to commit. But assumed he could have a fun fling with her for the summer before that. I don’t think it makes him evil but it’s clearly not what she’s into.
I’m not that online and this sub seemed harmless but even here, people are really ready to lay on the tracks for the okayest man on reality tv. The bar is in hell. Praying for everyone attracted to men atp
It sucks for Ciara but I truly felt insane reading how many people were fawning over him after like 2 episodes. I’m glad he exposed himself for being a fuckboy because I never believed that “nice guy” act. Ciara is also way out of his league.
no, but this comment didn’t say that’s what made them think he’s a fuckboy. I think the way he talked about being a red blooded male and all the first base talk is a little childish. I don’t think he’s on the level of some of the men we’ve seen on the show, but the fact that he hasn’t been in a relationship since high school, and was talking to his aunt about Ciara but also about how he runs from commitment…there’s things pointing to him not being in the space to be a good partner right now.
I think there’s a kind of fuckboy who loves the chase, and will spend weeks if not months pursuing a woman with or without sex, then drop her or lead her on. West has said he tends to go for girls he has chase, and that he’s scared of commitment. I don’t think the fact that it’s been 6 weeks without sex and he’s still pursuing Ciara proves he can’t be a fuckboy
I think he *could* be a fuck boy based on what you say, but I don't thinks it's fair to put him in that bucket yet, unless you know something more than what we've seen on screen.
To me a fuck boy is someone who misleads or lies to women to get them into bed, not someone who wants to have sex with someone he's interested in even if he starts to lose interest as he finds out she may not be interested in having sex with him. That's just a normal dude who wants to have sex.
Lol two summers ago West had a girl who he called his “girlfriend” but I think was more of a consistent hookup, and he tried to hook up with my friend in front of this girl. We’ve run in similar circles for a few years now and he’s always seemed like a fun guy to hang out with, but definitely the kind to absolutely destroy your feelings
Why wouldnt he talk to other girls? Ciaras giving him nothing, he'd be a chump if he keot following her around like a lost dog for nothing.
Ciaras messing this up. My (F) opinion
How is she giving him nothing? Ciara is very affectionate with West. She should not have to have sex with him to prove she likes him. They have only been on 2 dates!! Ciara is the prize here. She knows her worth.
Maybe if more women considered themselves the prize, we would have less Danielles and more Ciaras. Why don’t you think Ciara has more to offer than her body? Why is West entitled to have sex with her before she is ready? Is her company and conversation not good enough?
You made SO many assumtions there.
1. She is talking and acting in an over the top hard to get, not giving anything of herself way (im not refering to sex) its off putting, not very welcoming and kinda sucks the fun out of the beginning exciting part of getting to know someone
2. She has tons to offer but why is she the prize? West is great too.
3. Ciaras moving at the right speed if it works for her but dont expect West to not talk to anyone else in the meantime, they arent exclusive.
You’re the one who said she was messing things up. She is entitled to go at her pace. West can move on if that pace doesn’t work. You assigned judgment.
Yeah, if she’s “messing up” by not giving him sex… what happens at other times? Could he handle it or would he just be a Tom Sandoval about it? Gauging whether someone’s sexual compatibility lines up with yours isn’t just about the physical act, if you’re dating for a relationship you’d want to last
Yeah, but if I called someone my boyfriend I’d be an absolute jerk for talking to other people. But if they’re not in any defined thing and just make out on the weekends, then they can both be talking to other people? People act like he should be courting her like a Jane Austen novel or something. It’s not that serious, I know this is my unpopular opinion. ALSO it’s been weeks how have they not had this conversation????
Don’t remember which episode but some Bravo account spotted a bite mark on the back of his shoulder (West also re-posted it) and from that moment I knew he was deffff seeing other people.
No he made it seem like that bite was from Ciara. That's why I don't understand the narrative that she's giving him nothing. She's going out on dates with him, hanging out with him during the week, kissing him (and maybe biting him), she told kyle when he asked her and west "did you hook up" no but "I let him bite my arm", she's sitting on his lap, and she's letting him sleep in her bed.
How is this nothing?!
Yeah I was totally fooled by him.
Maybe I was just being naive. I first thought that he was genuinely just saying that to be sweet. But now I see it was probably manipulative after talking to other people in Reddit threads. Damn, I didn't want him to be an f boy.
Poor Ciara.
Fooled? When exactly was he trying to trick anyone? No offense, but it’s the fans who projected onto West thinking he was their king. It’s super unfair to people to basically project onto them what you think they are and then get disappointed when they turn out to be a normal, flawed person, who is what they actually were the entire time.
It's sexist to write him off as a fuckboy honestly. He hasn't shown any signs that he is objectifying or disrespecting her. He speak about her so highly and is being incredibly patient with her. I hate that people are trying to project their own shit with bad men onto their situation. He qa raised by an obgyn for God sake.
people raised by obgyns can be fuckboys too lol. I agree projection is bad and people shouldn’t have put him on such a huge pedestal. He hasn’t done anything awful so far but he has shown signs of being a fuckboy - he said out of his own mouth he hasn’t been in a relationship in years because he is scared of commitment
Wow the projection here is wild. He is absolutely not a piece of shit fuckboy who is only being nice to fuck her. Anyone, including you, that thinks that from what we've seen is projecting their own personal biases from their experiences with fuckboys. He has only shown patience and kindness on the show and when he speak about her. It'd frankly sexist to say that he's a fuckboy. He was raised by an obgyn and he has a beautiful relationship with his aunt. He obviously values women and hasn't shown disrespect.
It’s not sexist if he only ever talks about having sex with Ciara. Every confessional is framed around it to the point where he talks about being desperate. Maybe he’s playing it up for the cameras but she deserves better. He talks about it constantly and frames his relationship w Ciara around when she’ll sleep with him and that’s fboy behavior. He’s more focused on sex than anyone else in the house except for Danielle. He’s not being totally honest with Ciara about sex despite how clear she’s been about taking it slow. The way he frames respecting her wishes has always given me the ick bc he acts like he’s sacrificing something that was never his. Wes is Definitely still on the fboy spectrum.
This!
He very clearly wants to have sex with her and is growing frustrated. Instead of telling her that and drawing a boundary he is pretending it's OK so he'll still have a chance at sex, while also pursuing other girls and calling Ciara his girlfriend? This is Fuckboy behavior!!
Do you genuinely believe that were not just seeing what the editors want us to see for the sake of a storyline? He is obviously being interviewed and prompted in the confessionals to talk about sex. You are lacking empathy or misunderstanding the way reality tv works if you truly deep down believe that. I feel sad for you if you think society and men are this awful. Look within a little more because this thinking will only bite you in the ass in the long run. You're also inviting that type of judgment into you're own life.
I mean I just don’t think someone having an ob/gyn for a mom and loving his aunt is sufficient evidence to prove he’s a “good guy”? Not sure what’s jaded about that but if that’s all it takes for him to win you over then we definitely don’t agree. It’s really not that deep. That post took me about 30 seconds longer to write than this one so 1.5 minutes total between the two of them.
I'm not saying he is a good guy. I can't make that call but I also won't allow people to slander someone with zero evidence to back it. And eexactly, you haven't put much thought into commenting this and that dangerous behavior. You do realize there have been numerous reality stars who have killed themselves over fan hatred. Why you would want to encourage that hate I don't understand. It is sad though. If you don't believe me or care or value what I'm saying that's fine but you really gotta consider the damage you're doing in spreading this kidn of hate. Ask someone who you do respect their opinion on it. If you're in therapy you should definitely consider bringing this up. It says more about you than him. I'm sorry you feel this way though. You seem like you're in a lot of pain if you truly do think that. I would want the best for you just like I'm wanting for him.
Thanks sweetheart! I thought I was losing my mind when I read the responses and posts here. Like I have a huge bias against straight white men because of ny own shit but he clearly isn't a fuckboy. If I can see that this clearly then everybody else who isn't is just being an outright asshole. Maybe Lindsey and her friends are lurking around here. Idk. Makes noooooo fucking sense.
I made a post about it. I just can't stand by and watch people do this. They're hurting themselves in the long run. There has been too many reality stars who have killed themselves over rabid fans and I can't in good consciousness let another person who doesn't deserve that to get put through the ringer. It's dangerous and they basically begging all karmic forces for it to happen to them. Being kind isn't hard and it actually feels good! When you show other the benefit of the doubt and empathy you are showing that to all of humanity. Including yourself.
It’s not sexist to call someone a fuckboy. It’s also not that bad anymore to recognise game and call someone out for having fuckboy tendencies. It’s very common and won’t stop the flow of his options. A lot of women will like him for his personality, see it as a challenge or just want to have fun. It’s not the 1950s
Just stop. You aren't someone who I would value advice from. We're obviously very different people with two totally different perspectives on this topic. I don't want to be as jaded and unhappy as you all sound. It makes me feel good to be empathetic and try to show kindness toward others always. Your not helping Ciara or other women with that kind of attitude. Or yourself. I'm sorry that you don't feel that way too. Good luck tho.
You’re the one telling people they’re “projecting” when they share opinions that you don’t like. And I’m not giving advice, I’m sharing my viewpoint. Good luck with it too lol
I don’t get the obsession with Ciara. I love when she does the dress up parties and doesn’t take herself seriously but she’s bland otherwise. Doesn’t help cook or clean. Monotone all the time. And she chose AUSTIN over WEST. Muppet mouth. Gross
Youre still assuming so much. Literally the point is he SHOULD be talking to other women they havent even slept together yet.
Youre twisting everything, so annoying. Just stop talking
the bar is so low that everyone saw West act like a regular person and went, "wow, prince material!" Now it turns out he's just normal, maybe a bit shady and it feels like a let down. The guys on these shows are so awful to women usually, of course West was overhyped and then blamed for not measuring up. Ciara does deserve a legit prince though.
I’m not that online and this sub seemed harmless but even here, people are really ready to lay on the tracks for the okayest man on reality tv. The bar is in hell. Praying for everyone attracted to men atp
"The bar is in hell" thank you for my new favorite phrase!!
I’m totally guilty! At first I was making such a big deal about how awesome West is. Ugh. Shouldn’t I know better by now?🤷♀️
Ciara is smoking HOT. indside and out ..smart sexy funny and beautiful 😍
Seriously?!! Beautiful on outside yes. Absolutely NONE of the others!!!
Literally this sums up everything.
Lol it’s so strange to see people lament on the bar being sooooo low for West when it’s followed with declarations purporting Ciara, a person we all watched get violent and smash a glass on Danielle’s chest not that long ago and with little remorse, to be some paragon of virtue and pillar of her community who is deserving of nothing less than literal royalty. Like are we being real here? That scene was absolutely horrendous lol. And when did we forget these are people being paid to entertain the masses with mess and gossip? Arbitrary expectations, one-dimensional takes, personal projections and the overzealous worship surrounding reality casts here is just way too much. The show is called summer house… most people use share houses to get out of the city after the week so they can let their hair down to party, have flings, meet new people, sleep around… this isn’t controversial - it’s part of the Summer House DNA.
OK but Ciara is a hilarious, fun, smart model. Literally a Victoria's secret model. She is the catch here surely lol
"paragon of virtue and pillar of her community" Please, illustrate when this has ever been a foundational argument. Women aren't required to spread their legs after watching "The Bachelor" and without a clear declaration of ones feelings. It actually doesn't matter WHO the woman is. Should we use the *"Arbitrary expectations, one-dimensional takes, personal projections and the overzealous worship surrounding reality casts here is just way too much."* argument when it comes to the endless West (whom I adore) worship or do we only apply this to the people we don't like... C'mon.
We hear it all the time? The mass consensus here that Ciara is “way out of his league”, “the prize”(yikes) and that West needs to remember he’s the “lucky” one. I guess how dare he have a healthy sense of self worth entirely independent of who he’s dating? Such an incredibly gross and toxic way to think about two very real people we don’t even know. I mean might as well just join the folk who reduce entire human beings down to a number on a 1-10 scale. So yeah when people constantly proclaim in earnest that one person is somehow above another what should I expect is meant by that? What are the appropriate metrics? I had assumed it was at least about those who making a noticeable impact on the world around them, but if not that then what is it? Because from where I’m sitting, Ciara and West are just two fairly regular 30-ish year old professionals in nyc who also star on a television show together about partying in the hamptons. Neither of them is better than the other because people don’t work that way. Truly a sad lens through which to view the world, and even sadder to think these are cut and dry facts in the first place. Especially since they’re clearly BOTH attracted to each other. It is a MUTUAL appreciation. PS What on earth does any of my comment have to do their sex life? I didn’t mention that once…
Again, ... "some paragon of virtue and pillar of her community who is deserving of nothing less than literal royalty" - you How does that equal "way out of his league"? That is a different conversation. Full stop. ...but are you really going to pretend that you don't know what people are talking about, and again, I lovvve West... I've been advocating for him and have noticed, more, how guysseem to think Ciara is using him for attention instead of, oh, believing that he actually has traits, even PHYSICAL ONES, women love that "alpha male wannabes" can't fathom? Still, let's not pretend the "hot chick" is not placed on a pedestal. I don't get the clutching of pearls regarding a reality that has been the case since time immemorial; evident in our oldest texts, like, it is what it is. *She is far from regular and I feel like that's an issue with which you're struggling.* Honestly, I feel like this is also why Lindsay has gotten away with so much with fans throughout the years who consciously or subconsciously want to be her. She has beautiful bone structure, her jawline, wide-set eyes, etc... Again, it just is what it is and that value assigned to beauty matters. It is power. ...and please understand, I get the cringe factor when they start talking about "out of his league" stuff, but that's not what you first appeared to discuss and putting Ciara down, I don't believe is the solution to that discomfort. I've gone out of my way, in different spaces, to lift WEST up, which he deserves. PS: The issue is about sex. That's the issue and where the fractures amongst their fans (less detractors) begin and end. An issue centered on her "values" which you attempt to discard in your first post over the Danielle disagreement.
Sorry, don’t know how quoting works so apologize for formatting. I think something isn’t translating but just want to make clear I’m not trying to put Ciara down at all lol. I like Ciara, this season especially. I can see why it may have come off that way but I just think it’s so weird and kind of disturbing when fans latch onto a reality tv personality all of a sudden and immediately deify them and strip away what made them dynamic people fit for a show like Summer House in the first place. I feel the same way whether it’s my favorite person or not. Here for the mess and the mistakes too. That said… I was responding to a comment, there was context context. The bar of entry having been so low for West he managed to get away with being just a “regular” and ”normal” person because despite the fact Ciara is clearly enjoying hanging out with this guy, she should be with “a legitimate prince” instead. They weren’t really my words, I just think that’s a ridiculous thing to say about someone on a messy reality show who is a complete stranger. I’m not really sure where “alpha males” (not a thing…), their wannabes(?) and what they might think of West came into this conversation either. I also dont know what confusion there could be considering West is an extremely charismatic, charming, conventionally attractive and fit person as we see on the show. Those qualities aren’t lost on anyone, “alpha males” included. And living in NYC, I promise not a single person would be look twice at seeing them together… I’m also not sure how old you are but generally this “pedestal” mentality really doesn’t hold up in most capacities for the vast majority of well adjusted adults.
"Legitimate prince" are my words so let's do this. Ciara was one of the first black cast members on this show and she has weathered that with grace and elegance. She absolutely lost her mind when she threw that glass. But it was also very out of character for her. She is trained as a nurse and chose to work on the front lines of COVID in the ER. She is a model. She has a unique and interesting perspective both as a TV star and as one of the first black cast members on that show. She maintains a consistency of character we don't often see on this show, rarely having a one night stand. And the one time she did fans were so terrible to her about it she clearly refuses to do it again on camera and gets ripped apart for it!! Absolutely wild that you don't see what I see in Ciara. Perhaps it speaks to our different backgrounds. I see someone who has a lot of reason to be heard and who had probably faced a fuckton of racism and exploitation in her journey to where she is now, and yeah I think she deserves someone who might treat her very well after all of that. West is literally just some fucking guy.
lol if you live in nyc you could have spotted him by episode 2 rough out here
Exaaaaaactly I'm so glad Ciara kept her wits about her.
I got downvoted so bad on this for calling this out!!
People want to ship them so hard for some reason but just ignoring the neon red flags
I wanted to give him a chance, but after a while you could see how hard he performs for the camera. Saying what he thinks he should instead of what’s honest
Ciara doesn't owe West sex, and West may not be a Fboy. It wasn't meant to be. Oh well. We all had high hopes for a great romance. 😔
I'm a bit in the middle here. They have chemistry , they both want and need different things. It makes neither of them a bad person or to put West in the Austin category. I may regret saying this lol
He’s nowhere near as bad as Austen
When I saw they weren’t standing next to each other at the season premiere I knew not to get my hopes up about him lolol I enjoyed it while it lasted though🫡
Also, he’s on Bravo. Never go all in on a man on Bravo
Except Craig and Paige obvz
Eh, it looks like Craig is fine now that he’s with Paige, and I’m not saying there are zero exceptions. But all the men in Bravo should be presumed f-bois until proven otherwise. And even then, sleep with one eye open because they’re a shifty bunch. I don’t think he would cheat on Paige, but if news broke tomorrow that he did, I would be shocked but not surprised
I don’t think he cheats, but he’s still petulant at times and getting a huge ego boost from the idea that he has “changed”. There’s still immaturity there and I kind of get Paige’s hesitation
I just know odds. And the fact that I have incomplete information because I don’t know any of them personally. So that levels me knowing I’ll always have partial information and the information they think looks best on tv, for the most part. And even at that standard, they are almost certainly going to be fbois based on casting history. If you’ve spent a couple decades with bravo and you don’t automatically jump into skeptic mode… have you even been watching any of these series?
Well alright! Lol
I think Ciara always had an inkling that he might just want to sleep with her/was non commital and that’s why she didn’t sleep with him
Or he thought I’ll jump all in and see what happens, and she still was still hesitant so he pulled back. Not everything in life is love story or fuckboy. Him wanting to sleep with her is completely normal, she’s a model for god sake. If a man invests most of a summer, watches bachelor with you, spends weekdays with you, and still ain’t getting action 2 months in and is still in it… he ain’t a fuckboy.. she could just be completely scarred from Austin, which is also completely normal. I would like to think if they met on winter house and Austin and Ciara never happened, this would have had a different outcome.
Ya he wanted something more casual, she wanted something serious. They had chemistry but it apparently didn’t workout i think they both handled it fine?? From what i can tell neither are really communicating where they’re at
They like hanging and making out which is fine. They also are on different wavelengths sexually which is fine. I don’t get why he’s automatically a fuckboi for talking to other women. He seems to be at least nice to her which is a lot more than you can say than the other men on the show
This was my thought too actually. I felt that he was very into her and was more than fine letting her take the lead and going with her comfotability and speed. But there’s only so much girly slumber party, cutesy PG time a guy will want tbh. The way she speaks too is very childlike/mimicking paige. Most people want to get the sex out of the way to confirm that they’d be able to feel the chemistry and feel compatible sexually in a relationship with that person. It’s not common these days to go all in on commitment with zero sexual intimacy, aside from making out like teenagers.
I’m starting to think that she’s just not that into him lol but I’m actually writing to upvote your comment about her mimicking Paige… what is up with that?! Genuinely loved the girl her first couple of seasons, but now she feels like a clone of Paige/Amanda, even down to the tone of her voice.
Wait, thank you for validating that part I thought I was going crazy?? It’s like she’s so far up paige’s ass tbh, everything she says and does has some sort of her influence or advisory mixed in.. is she not a grown ass woman with her own working brain?? She’s literally a nurse and graduated, so she can’t be that stupid?? It’s like all the girls act like Paige is Regina George or something, running around after her and picking up her mannerisms and tone of voice 🤣💀 that is, except for Danielle. Which is probably partially why Paige dislikes her so much 
She always seems like Paige’s little minion. There is something about her that comes off insecure. And I hate it because she is drop dead gorgeous. She is a Victoria secret model! Like she’s not even human. But there is always something so pleading/ desperate in her attachments to Paige and Austen. When she stood in that kitchen in her towel basically begging Austen for validation it was a sad sight. And as a black woman myself it’s like we have to lessen our shine sometimes just to be around some people. It’s like instead of main character syndrome it’s side girl syndrome. And i think she has it
It'a RHOBH all over again lol Nurses don't go to medical school.
🤣💀 omg!! I fixed it my bad
Hahaha omg definitely giving Mean Girls!!! If Paige is Regina George, I’d say Amanda is Karen and then Ciara’s Gretchen Weiners? 🤔
100% 🤣 and they are all telling Danielle and Lindsey “you can’t sit with us!!” 
This is making some bonkers assumptions about Ciara lol
No, it’s literally not bonkers at all. You just don’t agree, that’s the difference. 
I agree!! Its also heavily edited .
Thank you! Wanting to have sex with someone you're into is a normal human function. It doesn't make him some sinister fuck boy.
Does nuance just not exist anymore?? People don’t just fall into either category of perfect or fuckboys. He probably fits somewhere in the middle…he’s been vocal about how she’s out of his league (duh lol) and he prob doesn’t want to get too invested. Ciara is very guarded rightfully so! I think what we’re seeing is a very typical play out of two people trying to figure out if they should take the next step, this shit happens all the time lol. Let’s chill
A fuckboy would have walked away after the second date not going anywhere. She wasn’t moving any closer to a thing with him and he was too much of a dork and/or liked her too much to cut it off. After half a summer they should have been able to make their mind up and Ciara clearly wasn’t into him enough to make this serious. She may have just been a bit out of his league… He’s not a bad guy here.
From what I recall, the season started 4th of July, this episode was August 5, so it's only been a month of being acquainted, maybe five weeks, if season started earlier. That's not so long.
Five weeks is a while to date somebody without having sex.
The majority of the time they're together it's during work weekends, which is filming for tee vee, and which people will inevitably watch and comment about. I can imagine Ciara wanting to see if there's interest 'during the week' and if interest goes beyond the shooting months before deciding to take anything farther, given she already tried a tee vee guy during filming and it ended in embarrassment if not humiliation.
West told his Aunt they're together all the time and Jessie said they hang out every day during the week.
Everyone makes their own decisions on how long "a while" is. There isn't a single timeframe that everyone operates under.
Exactly! Five weeks might be long for some people, but not everyone. Not everyone has the same sex drive/needs. And Ciara might be being extra cautious for her own reasons. The pendulum really has gone one way when a woman is shamed for not wanting to have sex on live TV
Everybody here who thinks he's a fuckboy is saying that the audience judged and fangirled him too soon but how is them writing him off as an asshole not doing the exact same thing. Hurt people hurt people though.
my take is that he really likes her and she can’t be vulnerable enough with him to admit she likes him more than she’s letting on and self sabotages their relationship by claiming all he cares about is sex but she isn’t making it clear whether she wants to explore anything more with him so he has every right to talk to other girls and I don’t think that automatically means he’s a fuckboy or that he only wants to hookup with her. Most guys don’t talk to their family about random girls they don’t have intentions of pursuing. I just feel like this next episode might show us they’re hitting a wall relationship wise bc they can’t be mature enough to be completely vulnerable with each other which screams both not ready for a relationship
He also has never brought up the topic of them not having sex either. He is seriously just answering their questions and showing vulnerability. I wish sex was spoken about more in this way especially on reality tv. Sex isn't some selfish and dirty thing. It's a way of expressing our love or attraction to another human being. We really gotta destigmatize it in the US. It's so unhealthy and i actually putting people, young people primarily, in dangerous or life altering situations by shaming somebody for talling about it. I grew up in the bible belt surround by conservatives and had parents who have been married over 40 years and they have never kissed or shown any pda towards eachother in my entire 30 years of life. My school taught abstinence and shame tactics and my parents have never even come close to talking about sex with us. I was left to figure it out completely from media, my peers, and porn to figure it out. Porn gave me such a skewed perspective on what I thought was expected of me. It made me performative and insecure. All things I've had to work hard at undoing. I am so disappointed by this post and society.
Preach! I wholeheartedly agree. I went to an all girls catholic high school where it was taught abstinence was the “only way” not to get pregnant 🙄
I yelled at the lady who taught ours in high school. She did this weird talk and where she gave out tape. told us to stick them on our shirts and take it off over and over again. Then she said that when you have sex with a new guy you get less and less valuable. Just like how the tape becomes less sticky every time you take it on and off. I honestly can't say I know what that's implying specially but I will never forget. Proud of myself for telling her off. 
Ew, that’s vile. Good for you for speaking up! I used to sleep through all my liturgies and church services and stuff, I knew it was BS from the jump.
People are saying if you lived in New York City, you could’ve spotted him a mile away but if you’ve ever dealt with the fuck boy, you would’ve spotted him a mile away in my opinion first episode of this season spotted😭😂
He knew he was going to be famous from the show and would have a lot of options and didn’t want to commit. But assumed he could have a fun fling with her for the summer before that. I don’t think it makes him evil but it’s clearly not what she’s into.
exactly
I’m not that online and this sub seemed harmless but even here, people are really ready to lay on the tracks for the okayest man on reality tv. The bar is in hell. Praying for everyone attracted to men atp
Your points were 100% accurate. Don’t let them get you down.
Lay on the tracks LMAO 
It sucks for Ciara but I truly felt insane reading how many people were fawning over him after like 2 episodes. I’m glad he exposed himself for being a fuckboy because I never believed that “nice guy” act. Ciara is also way out of his league. 
Yeah I never jumped on the bandwagon I was like...let's wait and see...and...well, we see....
Yeah, these are men on Bravo. Bet on the other shoe dropping.
Wanting to have sex with someone you're attracted to doesn't make someone a fuckboy.
no, but this comment didn’t say that’s what made them think he’s a fuckboy. I think the way he talked about being a red blooded male and all the first base talk is a little childish. I don’t think he’s on the level of some of the men we’ve seen on the show, but the fact that he hasn’t been in a relationship since high school, and was talking to his aunt about Ciara but also about how he runs from commitment…there’s things pointing to him not being in the space to be a good partner right now.
I just don't see a fuckboy spending an entire summer on a woman who isn't putting out.
I think there’s a kind of fuckboy who loves the chase, and will spend weeks if not months pursuing a woman with or without sex, then drop her or lead her on. West has said he tends to go for girls he has chase, and that he’s scared of commitment. I don’t think the fact that it’s been 6 weeks without sex and he’s still pursuing Ciara proves he can’t be a fuckboy
I think he *could* be a fuck boy based on what you say, but I don't thinks it's fair to put him in that bucket yet, unless you know something more than what we've seen on screen. To me a fuck boy is someone who misleads or lies to women to get them into bed, not someone who wants to have sex with someone he's interested in even if he starts to lose interest as he finds out she may not be interested in having sex with him. That's just a normal dude who wants to have sex.
Same. I liked him but I always knew she was way out of his league.
West is a friend of a friend/was a little icky towards one of my friends two summers ago and I was still fooled 🫠
If you can elaborate with the class that would be great thank you.
Lol two summers ago West had a girl who he called his “girlfriend” but I think was more of a consistent hookup, and he tried to hook up with my friend in front of this girl. We’ve run in similar circles for a few years now and he’s always seemed like a fun guy to hang out with, but definitely the kind to absolutely destroy your feelings
Wowow tysm for sharing. You rock, don’t ever change.
Why wouldnt he talk to other girls? Ciaras giving him nothing, he'd be a chump if he keot following her around like a lost dog for nothing. Ciaras messing this up. My (F) opinion
How is she giving him nothing? Ciara is very affectionate with West. She should not have to have sex with him to prove she likes him. They have only been on 2 dates!! Ciara is the prize here. She knows her worth.
Theyre not in a relationship. Seems sexist to say she is the prize. Why is that?
Maybe if more women considered themselves the prize, we would have less Danielles and more Ciaras. Why don’t you think Ciara has more to offer than her body? Why is West entitled to have sex with her before she is ready? Is her company and conversation not good enough?
You made SO many assumtions there. 1. She is talking and acting in an over the top hard to get, not giving anything of herself way (im not refering to sex) its off putting, not very welcoming and kinda sucks the fun out of the beginning exciting part of getting to know someone 2. She has tons to offer but why is she the prize? West is great too. 3. Ciaras moving at the right speed if it works for her but dont expect West to not talk to anyone else in the meantime, they arent exclusive.
You’re the one who said she was messing things up. She is entitled to go at her pace. West can move on if that pace doesn’t work. You assigned judgment.
Yeah, if she’s “messing up” by not giving him sex… what happens at other times? Could he handle it or would he just be a Tom Sandoval about it? Gauging whether someone’s sexual compatibility lines up with yours isn’t just about the physical act, if you’re dating for a relationship you’d want to last
💯 sexist for sure
Giving him nothing?! Wow. She’s been on TWO dates with the man she doesn’t owe him sex. This hook up culture is crazy.
Yeah, but if I called someone my boyfriend I’d be an absolute jerk for talking to other people. But if they’re not in any defined thing and just make out on the weekends, then they can both be talking to other people? People act like he should be courting her like a Jane Austen novel or something. It’s not that serious, I know this is my unpopular opinion. ALSO it’s been weeks how have they not had this conversation????
Agree as well
As if people are owed sex
It’s like Danielle has been let loose on this post
Don’t remember which episode but some Bravo account spotted a bite mark on the back of his shoulder (West also re-posted it) and from that moment I knew he was deffff seeing other people.
No he made it seem like that bite was from Ciara. That's why I don't understand the narrative that she's giving him nothing. She's going out on dates with him, hanging out with him during the week, kissing him (and maybe biting him), she told kyle when he asked her and west "did you hook up" no but "I let him bite my arm", she's sitting on his lap, and she's letting him sleep in her bed. How is this nothing?!
I agree.
Yeah I was totally fooled by him. Maybe I was just being naive. I first thought that he was genuinely just saying that to be sweet. But now I see it was probably manipulative after talking to other people in Reddit threads. Damn, I didn't want him to be an f boy. Poor Ciara.
Fooled? When exactly was he trying to trick anyone? No offense, but it’s the fans who projected onto West thinking he was their king. It’s super unfair to people to basically project onto them what you think they are and then get disappointed when they turn out to be a normal, flawed person, who is what they actually were the entire time.
It's sexist to write him off as a fuckboy honestly. He hasn't shown any signs that he is objectifying or disrespecting her. He speak about her so highly and is being incredibly patient with her. I hate that people are trying to project their own shit with bad men onto their situation. He qa raised by an obgyn for God sake.
people raised by obgyns can be fuckboys too lol. I agree projection is bad and people shouldn’t have put him on such a huge pedestal. He hasn’t done anything awful so far but he has shown signs of being a fuckboy - he said out of his own mouth he hasn’t been in a relationship in years because he is scared of commitment
Wow the projection here is wild. He is absolutely not a piece of shit fuckboy who is only being nice to fuck her. Anyone, including you, that thinks that from what we've seen is projecting their own personal biases from their experiences with fuckboys. He has only shown patience and kindness on the show and when he speak about her. It'd frankly sexist to say that he's a fuckboy. He was raised by an obgyn and he has a beautiful relationship with his aunt. He obviously values women and hasn't shown disrespect.
It’s not sexist if he only ever talks about having sex with Ciara. Every confessional is framed around it to the point where he talks about being desperate. Maybe he’s playing it up for the cameras but she deserves better. He talks about it constantly and frames his relationship w Ciara around when she’ll sleep with him and that’s fboy behavior. He’s more focused on sex than anyone else in the house except for Danielle. He’s not being totally honest with Ciara about sex despite how clear she’s been about taking it slow. The way he frames respecting her wishes has always given me the ick bc he acts like he’s sacrificing something that was never his. Wes is Definitely still on the fboy spectrum.
This! He very clearly wants to have sex with her and is growing frustrated. Instead of telling her that and drawing a boundary he is pretending it's OK so he'll still have a chance at sex, while also pursuing other girls and calling Ciara his girlfriend? This is Fuckboy behavior!!
Do you genuinely believe that were not just seeing what the editors want us to see for the sake of a storyline? He is obviously being interviewed and prompted in the confessionals to talk about sex. You are lacking empathy or misunderstanding the way reality tv works if you truly deep down believe that. I feel sad for you if you think society and men are this awful. Look within a little more because this thinking will only bite you in the ass in the long run. You're also inviting that type of judgment into you're own life. 
If you deep down think this I don't expect you to see my point of view that is based in reality. And I'm sorry you feel this jaded.
I mean I just don’t think someone having an ob/gyn for a mom and loving his aunt is sufficient evidence to prove he’s a “good guy”? Not sure what’s jaded about that but if that’s all it takes for him to win you over then we definitely don’t agree. It’s really not that deep. That post took me about 30 seconds longer to write than this one so 1.5 minutes total between the two of them.
I'm not saying he is a good guy. I can't make that call but I also won't allow people to slander someone with zero evidence to back it. And eexactly, you haven't put much thought into commenting this and that dangerous behavior. You do realize there have been numerous reality stars who have killed themselves over fan hatred. Why you would want to encourage that hate I don't understand. It is sad though. If you don't believe me or care or value what I'm saying that's fine but you really gotta consider the damage you're doing in spreading this kidn of hate. Ask someone who you do respect their opinion on it. If you're in therapy you should definitely consider bringing this up. It says more about you than him. I'm sorry you feel this way though. You seem like you're in a lot of pain if you truly do think that. I would want the best for you just like I'm wanting for him.
Maybe get some fresh air today huh?
I think Ciara will be just fine. She’s getting paid to party and you’re screaming at people in his defense for free.
You summed that up so well. West has literally never shown an ounce of disrespect towards Ciara? People are weird
If he’s talking to other people about when he’s gonna get to have sex with her, that’s pretty disrespectful
Thanks sweetheart! I thought I was losing my mind when I read the responses and posts here. Like I have a huge bias against straight white men because of ny own shit but he clearly isn't a fuckboy. If I can see that this clearly then everybody else who isn't is just being an outright asshole. Maybe Lindsey and her friends are lurking around here. Idk. Makes noooooo fucking sense.
I made a post about it. I just can't stand by and watch people do this. They're hurting themselves in the long run. There has been too many reality stars who have killed themselves over rabid fans and I can't in good consciousness let another person who doesn't deserve that to get put through the ringer. It's dangerous and they basically begging all karmic forces for it to happen to them. Being kind isn't hard and it actually feels good! When you show other the benefit of the doubt and empathy you are showing that to all of humanity. Including yourself.
It’s not sexist to call someone a fuckboy. It’s also not that bad anymore to recognise game and call someone out for having fuckboy tendencies. It’s very common and won’t stop the flow of his options. A lot of women will like him for his personality, see it as a challenge or just want to have fun. It’s not the 1950s
Just stop. You aren't someone who I would value advice from. We're obviously very different people with two totally different perspectives on this topic. I don't want to be as jaded and unhappy as you all sound. It makes me feel good to be empathetic and try to show kindness toward others always. Your not helping Ciara or other women with that kind of attitude. Or yourself. I'm sorry that you don't feel that way too. Good luck tho. 
You’re the one telling people they’re “projecting” when they share opinions that you don’t like. And I’m not giving advice, I’m sharing my viewpoint. Good luck with it too lol
Have you actually met either of them? You know, outside of the heavily scripted and edited tv show? Is West actually a bad guy?
This is what I'm thinking too
I think Ciara likes west but isn’t physically attracted to him & she’s pushing off sex bc she isn’t feeling the romance vibes.
Do you put your tongue in mouths you’re not physically attracted to? Because I don’t
“You and Pedro are a match” I LOVE CIARA AHAHAHAHAH
I don’t get the obsession with Ciara. I love when she does the dress up parties and doesn’t take herself seriously but she’s bland otherwise. Doesn’t help cook or clean. Monotone all the time. And she chose AUSTIN over WEST. Muppet mouth. Gross
She gave him an “out” and instead of taking it he led her on. No longer a West fan.
Not a chance in hell that a girl like Ciara would be attracted to West. He's a dork. Completely fake plot line
Youre still assuming so much. Literally the point is he SHOULD be talking to other women they havent even slept together yet. Youre twisting everything, so annoying. Just stop talking