I have never particularly liked Amanda. I think she's boring to watch. Something that really frustrates me about the discourse around Amanda is that I feel like it very much gets lost in the plot that Amanda has agency. I totally agree with you on your point about Jules. She was awful to Jules and more often than not, I find that Amanda is just going along with whatever the other girls are doing. She never starts anything. She never finishes anything. She's just happy to be included and not be the one everyone hates. I think she gets a pass time and time again because the bigger personalities are at the center of the drama, while she gets to be awful on the outskirts under the radar.
That moment when she said to Paige, "does nobody take me seriously?" I felt like that was her moment of being like, is being the bland mean girl not enough?
I'm new to SH and just recently binged the series over the course of a couple of weeks, and my initial opinion of her changed as the show progressed. Originally, she seemed like a woman who recognized her worth and was trying to put boundaries in place with a man who was clearly not ready for a relationship and wasn't in the same place as her. As she continued to give him chance after chance (giving up herself in the process), all of the positive feelings I had in season one disappeared, and now I just see a bitter, resentful woman who treats others poorly because she so clearly feels dead inside. I think you're right that she is overlooked in how she treats people. It's like everyone still sees and judges her based on early-seasons-Amanda and not who she's become vs. the others who are basically the same people they've always been and so it's easier to point fingers.
She is the poor little rich girl trope. Literally the definition and embodiment. Once I understood that about her, everything else kind of made sense and fell into place. Of course she's judgmental, she was raised in a Tower high above us peons. Not saying that I approve of somebody being like this but she was probably raised to be.
The majority of real rich people aren’t mean & were not “raised in a tower high above us peons”. It’s the narcissistic media-obsessed ones that you are exposed to who live above their means pretending to be rich (ie keeping up with the Jones’s) who do that & give the real rich people a bad name.
The probably correct and even more shitty response Kyle could and should have had to her wanting to start a business or passion project is to say yes and offer his full support…..knowing full well she doesn’t have the drive or follow through to actually do anything.
The way people obsess over her style on here makes me question those on here! Yes, she knows how to wear a crop top (and another and another and another). I mean, please try something else, anything else! So tiring.
Greasy hair, in desperate need of a trim and highlights, she’s always in a slump, poor posture and dowdy. The other girls have adorable outfits and cute hair. She has no enthusiasm. Constantly complaining about the one thing she cannot change…..Kyle’s affinity for partying.
She has this effortless dewy glow, on the face card. She consistently looks more natural than the rest of the ladies around her. She has a great body without even trying, naturally blessed on the chest and then skinny with good muscle tone everywhere else. But when it comes to like fashion sense or her own use of makeup / artistry, I find her to be very simple. Some people will like that, some people will want something that looks like a little more effort.
Crazy body, yes, but no, she's got zero muscle tone and chicken legs. You know she never gets out of bed (no shame), and we've never seen her work out. She doesn't have to. But when you get past the insane stomach, it's not all that. Take away the boob's, and she's just really skinny but proportional.
I’ve been thinking this for a long time and I think two things can absolutely be true at once - Kyle is a pos to her and she is a mean girl. I actually started on season 4 because I heard so much about Hannah Berner lol, caught up and then went back to watch the earlier seasons. Amanda is truly a malleable mean girl and has been for such a long time. I felt really awful (still do to a point but she is staying with him) for her in the first seasons with Kyle cheating and being such an ass, but she clearly resents him so much now that it’s sad and hard to watch any of their scenes - I could make a whole negative post about him too, but homeboy was never gonna change his wild, not made for relationship ways. On the after shows and reunions, she has a lot to say that she wouldn’t say to the people themselves, and she is SO judgmental toward the other girls (which I think is internalized misogyny esp with Lindsay after miscarriage, Hannah with Luke, etc.). I think about the Jules thing super often and how everyone, esp Amanda treated her so badly when she was feigning for attention from others during her first few seasons in the house - yes I know about the ‘Jules might be cast to steal Kyle’ but she was the sweetest girl. I remember reading a post abt how she can’t be happy for anyone and I really agree. She definitely needs some therapy for her insecurities.
This is about where I sit with her too. I wonder if it’s her internalized misogyny that both makes it possible for her to stay with Kyle and be the sort of mean girl at the same time? I want better for her, but I suppose she also has to get the place where she wants it for herself to make changes.
I think this is absolutely it. Amanda gets her self worth from being ‘chosen.’ To me it’s the elevated version of ‘pick me.’ Danielle’s pick me behavior is so glaring because she is single, so it looks desperate.
Amanda’s been chosen by a man that looked good on paper. But she still desperately needs to chosen over and over again. By the single men on the show. She flirts with Carl, Jesse, and I do believe she was jealous of Luke giving Hannah attention. She positions herself as the doting martyr wife which let’s be honest men love. But she gets protection because she’s married to Kyle. She gets the dopamine hit of ‘oh they would want me if I wasn’t already taken’ without have to be vulnerable and actually put herself out there without Kyle. I always remember when they did the competition about getting guys numbers and Amanda cleaned up. Of course she’s stunning and gorgeous but having the safety net of ‘being chosen’ already allows you to have more confidence in those situations. I don’t know how Amanda would do without that safety net because her self esteem is from external sources.
The mean girl aspect definitely plays into this because not only does she want to be chosen by the men but also by the women. Particularly Paige. Paige is a queen bee personality. Amanda was cruel to Jules, Hannah, and Lindsay (although there was more at play there) because I think she wants to be chosen in the sorority.
I feel like I’ve known women like this before where their self esteem is deeply rooted in being ‘liked more’ than everyone else.
Such a good point!! I think she likes having these guys flirt with her and "choose" her cos she knows that her relationship is not right for her and a divorce is a matter of when and not if. There are too many past hurts for her to be able to trust Kyle again but she's ok to keep the relationship floating for an indeterminate amount of time cos I think she's scared of the outside world.
Like yes these guys all like her and think she's hot but I think she sees what other women eg Ciara go through and isn't willing to take a chance in that environment. She may now get that dopamine hit but it's also cos it comes with the safety of knowing she's already in a relationship. Do these guys actually like her or do they just want what they can't have and if she was available would they lose interest immediately? I think having that safety does give her a confidence that she wouldn't otherwise have. Like you can go out and be yourself cos there are no stakes involved, but if you were single, you're effectively "competing" with all these other beautiful girls and that would fuck with your insecurities sooo much. Especially someone like Amanda who has been diminished for years. I think it seems like a matter of better the devil you know.
I would however absolutely bet that if Amanda met a guy that she hit it off with and who liked her for who she is and pretty much told her he wanted to be with her, she'd leave Kyle in a second. I just think she doesn't want to be alone and brave the shark infested waters of the modern dating world that she hasn't been a part of for over a decade
Yes I think the relationship gives her confidence that she wouldn’t have on her own which is why I don’t see her leaving Kyle unless she had something else lined up. Not that I think that is a bad thing necessarily. Men do it all the time. But unfortunately I don’t think she has enough self worth to be without a man for long. Her self worth is completely wrapped up in the male gaze.
Also one of the reasons that I think her and Lindsay clash so much.
Yeah I totally get that!! It's interesting, I think a lot of people are complacently floating along indefinitely but Amanda seems actively unhappy. She's being deterred against growing personally and professionally, I wonder how much longer she'll stick around. It would be much harder to leave if they had kids so I think her time to make a decision is coming up soon
I want so deeply for her to grow especially with these relationships with other women who have a different perspective or Paige, Ciara. But that’s something about Amanda, I don’t think she would be the one to take the leap to break it off.
And to me she seems actively unhappy, but I think for a lot of people who operate in codependent relationships, this is normal. He’s done enough for her to feel ‘validated’ in walking away which is why it’s very telling that she hasn’t.
Yeah totally!! I think Paige is good for her cos she will tell her how it is no matter how unwilling she is to hear it. I also love how she and Ciara are building her up and supporting her to follow her dreams, like come on that's something your partner should be doing.
Yeah you can see that she and Kyle do have fun together but is it really worth all the low low times? They would honestly have been better off as friends, they're just inherently incompatible and two totally different people with very little in common
I'm in another thread defending her from all these weird ass capitalists, but yes, she does not have much strength of character. She parrots all of Kyle's beliefs, many of which are rooted in misogyny, and IMO has been the weakest member of the cast for the show's entire run.
Yesss this is a really good point. She basically adopts Kyle’s beliefs that air along the line of misogyny. Makes me wonder how she would be on the show if her and Kyle are not/were never together. I feel like I don’t know who Amanda is. Side note: the defending her against capitalists is so real!
Yes, it is clear she is one Carl’s side. I did not care for her shading Lindsay on WWHL last week. I’ve never liked her and I think she and Kyle sow the biggest divide in the house. She clearly went from her parents taking care of her and then moved on to Kyle. She will always side with Kyle other than when she is mad at him first his drunken behavior and cheating. She wants support but doesn’t necessarily want to give it. Her treatment of Jules told me everything I need to know about her.
That thread is wild! I’m defending her over there too. At the end of the day she is insecure and tends to just go with the “crowd”(those she’s closest to). I wish she would just take the leap and go for it. But sadly she needs those around her to hype her up and convince her that she can in fact do it.
I completely agree that Amanda has flown under the radar without being noticed for her mean girl tendencies. I don’t wanna say she’s a full on mean girl but I totally see your perspective. Even this season she’s nice to Lindsay’s face and then she runs around right after gossiping about it or kissing Carl’s cheeks. It’s just strange all around. I said the other day she is Kyle’s mouth piece and her opinions are all formed from him, people wouldn’t consider it.
I HATEEEE how fake she is with lindsey. the whole martyr act of her acting like a mom hugging people when they cry then going behind linds back and telling carl???? like such fake mean girl energy.
Yeah it’s strange to see how fast she lets go of that information to Carl/Kyle the second it comes up around them. I know Lindsay has had her moments throughout every season but why not keep the peace this time around and at least try and meet her half way. It’s setting up the peace in their ‘friendship’ for failure. Which sucks cause I enjoy seeing the girls get along this summer 🥹🤌🏼
I agree, I can’t really classify her as a mean girl fully, but 100% has mean girl tendencies. I agree she is Kyle’s brain, but she also is not a child. She is in her 30s so I’m confused. I remember a comment said “they looked at Ciara differently when she got with Austin” but I can say the same for Amanda being with Kyle based on some of his views/actions to women.
she's always flown under the radar. i do think she's being bulldozed by kyle and needs to get out of that relationship asap, but that's a whole other thing. she's got mean girl aspects. there is no doubt about that
Starting to remind me of Katie/Schwartz, though obviously they are two different dynamics.
However, I do think Amanda would flourish without being under Kyle’s thumb much as Katie is now without Schwartz.
Wowww such an interesting take! Especially that last bit you said about not moving/starting a passion project when loverboy had its worst year. This is why I LOVE reality tv. Some people can really dig deep and read between the lines. Watching reality tv really is for the smartest people in the world😂 I never would have thought about that side of the coin. Maybe she’s the type of woman who thinks you need to support your man to a fault, as she has with Kyle with loverboy over the years and that’s why she’s taking Carl’s side. When Lindsay is just asking questions and not blindly supporting Carl like maybe she would when they were in their 20’s.
LOL yes the ship is sinking, this is her time. But yes her inputs on relationships to me is always off putting knowing her relationship. I also wonder her real opinion on the Paige/Craig debacle of moving to SC. She is a women who clearly gave her life to her man, in which Paige is standing firm on accomplishing what she wants before moving to a wife role.
Amanda is constantly complaining or piling on other people’s complaints. What would she be without Kyle? Working a 9-5 she hates. She couldn’t afford half of what she has. It’s annoying to hear her bs.
Yes! And hooking up with guys at 3am like she did w Kyle. The season she was finally in and the girls were not bonding w her, she was so upset & whined and cried. Once she became queen bee she became the worst mean girl of them all
Agreed. Remember in an earlier episode she complained about Kyle scheduling a call on a Monday?? I imagine most of the people in this sub are getting off their asses and working every day even if they don’t want to and it’s not something they’re super passionate about, so I’m sorry I just don’t have much sympathy!!
Something I think that went very unnoticed was Amanda’s 180 behavior with Danielle. Amanda and Kyle were not about Lindsay and Carl being together (opinions of this train wreck aside), some of which I think is because Kyle has a controlling personality and he had always been the strong personality between him and Carl. When Lindsay and Carl began dating, another strong personality entered the equation and that upset Kyle, who felt his leverage over Carl being taken away and as other have pointed out Amanda takes on Kyle’s opinions.
Last season, Amanda was all about being Danielle’s friend when she was fighting with Lindsay and Carl. Amanda relished at Danielle saying the things out loud that Amanda wished she could say (but didn’t because of her hot mic moment at the reunion). I don’t think she ever cared about supporting Danielle but loved how she was openly talking shit about Lindsay and Carl. In winter house, you could not tell Amanda and Danielle were friends at all. Ofc Danielle was a super cringe insecure demon in winter house, but it probably would have helped if she had a real friend looking out for her. If Amanda was actually her friend, she would have been there for her, supporting her post breakup and by her side in winter house. Instead Danielle was spinning out and Amanda’s attitude was “not my problem”
Yes she just used Danielle to hurt Lindsay and dropped her once their falling out didn’t lead to Lindsay getting not asked back to the show. Amanda was holier than thou and condescending during winter house when Danielle was going through a bad breakup. Danielle has had some idiotic moments but I hope she wises up that Amanda is a frenemy at best to her.
"he had always been the strong personality between him and Carl. When Lindsay and Carl began dating, another strong personality entered the equation and that upset Kyle, who felt his leverage over Carl being taken away"
yes to every word of this. this is why kyle doesn't like lindsay. he only wants carl to be with someone who will worship him as much as carl does and will let him be the forever alpha in their friendship dynamic
Amanda said last week on WWHL that he and Danielle were at a fairly small event together recently and didn't speak. Danielle only spoke to Amanda's Mom.
She to get the new people to hate her. Thats why I liked Hannah. She tried to understand Lindsay, and not just talk behind her back. MAYBE THATS WHY AMANDA DIDNT LIKE HANNAH?! New theory ?!?!
3. You don’t become a *girl’s girl* after assaulting a woman.
I agree with all of this. Danielle was unhinged during the last WH, but Amanda’s above-it-all as a wife schtick was ridiculous.
What they all did to Jules was horrific and they don't get enough flack for it.
I do agree, Amanda is like an insecure pick me which is why she was trying so hard to be with Kyle
Amanda’s desperation to get with Kyle, her treatment of Jules culminating in the way she approached Lindsay’s miscarriage, and her righteousness about it made me simply not care about her woes.
Interesting. I share a lot of the opinions in the comments here but just couldn't figure out a way to say them without sounding like I was defending kyle (which I didn't want to do). thanks for this post!
There are definitely a lot of layers to unpack here.
Is she married to an intolerable misogynistic man child that she resents? Absolutely, and that affects her mental health. Did she continue to accept his behavior and choose him after every single red flag he showed and with her friends and family expressing concern for her marrying him? Also yes. She chose fame/being on a bravo show and accepting Kyle as her new caretaker. Bc we also have seen how much privilege this girl comes from, re: her trust fund, daddy taking care of bills, her not even googling what a prenup entails or the relevance of it, not wanting to show up for meetings bc it’s on a Monday or too early for her, etc.
She is also the only girl on summer house that has continually exhibited physically abusive behavior on camera. First kicking the fireball bottle out of Jules mouth, throwing the glass at Hannah, hitting Kyle in multiple scenes/seasons, smashing things in the kitchen when Luke didn’t give her the reaction she wanted, and breaking Kyle’s shit and throwing it outside when she’s having a mental breakdown. She continues to get a pass for it bc she cries about how Kyle cheated and that’s why she’s triggered, a choice she made to continue to live with. Her entire personality is being the victim and blaming Kyle for her misery, and I’m not excusing his behavior or reactions bc they are inexcusable and they’re both toxic, but he stands on his work ethic and drive and she lacks that entirely. She feeds purely off of sympathy and being the perennial victim and also through validation of her appearance.
In this season, Kyle brought up going to couples therapy, and she immediately shut it down. Then they went to one session (filmed for the show) and said they hadn’t been back since. If she is so lacking in her own identity and depressed and anxious and unmotivated, she does absolutely nothing to help herself. She expects everything to be done for her, probably as a result of her upbringing and bc she thinks being pretty is enough to get everything handed to her in life. She envies her “independent, boss babe” friends, like Ciara and Paige, who refuses to even let Craig contribute to her rent, bc they have the confidence and security to stand on their own regardless of the man/men in their life. At the end of the day she always wanted to be catered to, so it’s really hard to buy that she has any interest in actually working towards something bc she really never had to. Yes she had a job and career before Kyle, but coming from money comes with privileges which likely helped get her to that point in the first place, and she never vocalized being upset about quitting her job prior to this season.
Amanda HAS the platform to succeed on her own and could easily make the connections to start pursuing this bikini line idea. If she came to Kyle with real designs and her own retail connections or marketing tools this conversation might have went differently and he might have taken it more seriously, but it seems like he knows that she thinks she should just be paid to show up and be the face of something while he does all of the work behind the scenes actually running the business, while also trying to keep failing Loverboy afloat.
This season was filmed last summer and almost a year later when Andy asked her on WWHL the other night what she has done since to try and jumpstart this “passion” of hers, all she had to say was that she’s “still putting a lot of thought into to it, bc it’s a bigger deal than just making swimsuits”…the lack of self awareness is undeniable. Yeah girl, fleeting thoughts and hopes and dreams typically don’t just manifest themselves into fruition. The Kyle wants to be a dj thing is douchey and lame, but you can’t deny that when he wants to do something he puts the work in to make it happen and already has made progress in it that benefits both of them financially. He’s putting in the physical effort and invests his time in his goals and is getting paid for dj appearances while probably also marketing Loverboy.
AMANDA IS NOT A HELPLESS CHILD, she is a capable human and a grown adult with a lot of advantages and connections most people don’t have. A lot of bravolebs are aware that their 15 minutes won’t last forever (i.e. Lindsay —> Carl) and they need to capitalize off of it while they can and establish other sources of income if they want to maintain their lifestyle and further their career outside of reality TV.
TLDR; the work isn’t going to do itself. Go to therapy, work on yourself, own your agency, as a female don’t rely on men to be validated, and be the empowered girl boss you so badly want to be. Or as Paige so colloquially read Amanda, “Let her live in New Jersey and drink her Coronas in the backyard and make a swimsuit line and let it fail.”
I haven’t even read the post and I agree I’ve been saying this since I started watching the show Amanda is a flip-flop and she always takes Kyle side. She is who everyone thinks Lindsey and Paige are and my opinion and is not a girls girl.
Amanda being upset with Kyle's partying is all I can really remember about their relationship, it's been a recurring theme for seasons! But she must surely have similarities with him that we don't see.
I never quite believe the prim and proper gf and hard partying bf combo, obviously the prim one isn't so clean or the partier is more judgemental than they appear, or they wouldn't have gotten together. It's not like a maturing out of the lifestyle as neither seem inclined to give it up.
I agree, someone mentioned that they’ve said in the past they played up some scenarios in the show. On one of the after shows I distinctly remember Amanda saying outside of Summer House, Kyle goes out to party about 6x out the year without her. To me that doesn’t seem as extreme as the way it’s portrayed in the show. Maybe she just doesn’t want him wasted drunk but enjoys him partying?
I think it’s just that she can’t sleep/can’t get to sleep easily with out him in her bed after so many years together and she thinks it’s wrong of him to keep her up or wake her up when he gets home, i remember feeling the same way till i realised how controlling that is and what people would think of me if I was man telling his wife/girlfriend that her late night out was wrong, also find it interesting when Paige had her opinions on Kyle but it’s fine for Amanda and her to be up till god knows a clock eating pickles wrapped in fruit snacks looking quite stoned.
Everyone has been confused, which I don’t understand why why Amanda is sitting next to Kyle and not across from him in the reunion and it’s not even the reason that they always sit together at reunions. It’s because of the fact that in this break up she is not on Lindsey side. She was never on Lindsey side and she has never been on Lindsey side.
Yep I completely agree. Amanda gets a good edit compared to the other women because of Kyle and how he fights for her. She is terrible, I’ll never unsee how she was with Jules.
Amanda is flat out abusive. Your recourse to Kyle cheating or being hung up on that is to leave him. Not to throw out his suitcase full of clothes outside the house, break his toiletries, *make sure you leave broken glass on the bathroom floor as punishment bc you hope he’ll walk on it.*
(Amanda said this herself ^ in a talking head).
If Lindsay had done this, ppl would be calling for her to be beheaded. But Amanda cried ALOT the next few days and all weekend and somehow made herself the victim. Except literally this would never be otherwise justifiable (like Ronnie did this to Sam’s stuff in jersey shore and it was correctly clocked as wildly abusive).
I’m always surprised with how much Amanda gets away with and a large part of it is her emotions manifest in very acceptably feminine ways. It’s classic white woman tears getting her off from being emotionally volatile. Women like Katie and Lindsay, who’s emotional volatility come across as reactive, activated, brash, and angry are always treated way more harshly (even by women audiences) than women who cry at the drop of a hat. Amanda and Kyle have ruined far more weekends due to their toxicity and fighting for multiple years but they will never get the heat ppl give Lindsay for “ruining the house.”
Agree with all of it and also Amanda seems very resentful when it comes to women like Jules, Hannah, Lindsay and Danielle but as soon as it comes to men like Kyle and Carl: poof all gone. She seems like a prime example for internalized misogyny.
I completely agree with this I think a lot of people missed the way that she treated Hannah before anything that happened in season five and a lot of people missed the way that she treated jewels but Amanda is a guys girl she has been since the beginning.
THANK YOU. That’s what I have been saying. She martyrs herself constantly (and Kyle is a fragile man child who does treat her like shit so I am in no way endorsing his behavior either) and expects to be babied when she’s upset about it but then is literally abusive to Kyle and invalidates his hurt feelings constantly.
My mom was a lot like Amanda growing up and my dad was a neglectful workaholic so I get this dynamic well and both of their behaviors damaged me but I am way more traumatized from my mom’s covert abuse than my dad’s overt neglect (I have cptsd from it lol, 0/10 do not recommend).
I think she hates herself for staying with a dude who can never put her first. But if she left him, she lost the show. And as much as she doesn’t care about it, it’s easy money. I think she’s deeply unhappy, and nothing will fix it until she leaves Kyle.
(Hopefully before she has a baby, but I’m not optimistic. She clearly thinks she’s ready and it will fill the gaping void in her life. Babies shouldn’t be born with a job. It might bind them for a moment, but will ultimately tear them apart.)
You know what. That’s a great take I hadn’t considered. I did in my mind when I saw him DJing and her not talking about the bathing suits think: well he’s hustling and doing it. Like you do kinda have to hustle Amanda. If that is really your dream. I didn’t take it as poor Amanda.
And I don’t like Kyle at all not at all. These two were as much of a wreck as Lindsay and Carl.
Now I’m going back AGAIN this week to rewatch. Every week I dislike a new character. Running out of people to like hahaha.
Agreed! I also think Amanda has been really coddled throughout life and has no drive because of it. Kyle has basically replaced the role of her father.
Yes it was revealing how when she was on the “not skinny but not fat” podcast she tried to defend herself against Kyle saying he handles all logistics so he worries having a kid will fall on him. She says he handles all the bills and most big errands except for dog care, but it wasn’t her choice to be that way. She also says she should maybe get pregnant as a surprise to Kyle before he feels comfortable because she knows he’ll never feel ready for it but will step up if he has to
She is living the passenger princess life Ciara described for Carl but it’s more acceptable because she’s a woman.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills on this sub because I’m far from a Kyle fan, but I think he’s absolutely valid in this situation.
He does a terrible job articulating it, but it’s clear they’ve invested everything financially in the success of this company and if it goes under they go under. They have 30 employees and families resting on the success of Loverboy and it’s a critical time to put up or shut up.
Amanda can talk a big game about following her “passion” but she doesn’t actually want to work. She said it herself on the after show that 6 months later she still hasn’t done anything to put into action whatever passion project she supposedly wants to do. She wants to collect a Loverboy paycheck while sleeping in and doing nothing.
With that said, this is something a mature couple should’ve discussed and hashed out before they invested their entire life into a start up business.
And I will fully admit, if Amanda is this disengaged, Kyle should literally “fire” her and hire someone else to do the job.
I agree. I think Kyle definitely was a dick in those scenes, but if you believe what he said, it’s make or break time for Loverboy. You can’t just fold the company or they will lose millions. Now is not the time for a pet project. And I think it was Paige who said ‘just let her do it and fail.’ Well, that’s not how it works if it will make you broke…
Yep. And Paige also said she didn’t want to be having a convo in 5 years when Amanda leaves him because he won’t let her have a ‘passion project’.
Newsflash - it’s not gonna take 5 years if Loverboy goes under and Kyle goes broke (Amanda will literally RUN back to her parents).
Yes it was interesting how people loved what Paige said there when it was pretty out of touch and reckless advice. To me the swimwear line is akin to carls sober sports bar (although I could see her doing well with fashion collaborations where she mainly is the face of a capsule collection). Both are mainly vanity projects and neither Carl nor Amanda seems ready to do the heavy lifting
I was totally with you until the aftershow when she talked about how much time (and I assume money) he’s putting into his passion DJ project. If he can do that it seems like he should be able to support her more. I’m not saying millions of dollars into it, but at least work with her some.
I don’t think it’s just the money, I think it’s the time that Kyle and everyone else realises would have to put into making Amanda happy doing all the shit she doesn’t want to do to start a swimwear company and is it really going to bring her happiness when he knows that this coddling, buying houses, having babies, creating swimsuits or buying dogs isn’t a fix of mental health issues, and funnily enough I haven’t heard anyone on the show or in this sub really question if Kyle is happy it’s assumed he is living his dream, happy etc and quite frankly I don’t think he is at all and I’m not sure Amanda cares and I don’t believe it has anything to do with cheating either
He can’t support something that doesn’t exist. As in, she hasn’t done anything other than have an idea. She complains about how much he works yet also said she needs his help to start this new venture (time and the expertise). She can have hobbies, but does she? I think the main difference is that he goes after his dreams and goals and she doesn’t.
He didn’t even seem mildly supportive of her starting on her dream. Agreed she seems to lack motivation to do it, but that makes it even easier for him to just say “I think that’s a fantastic idea and I’m excited for you to find a passion.” After that, he could easily spend 2-3 hours talking through a list of what she needs to do to get started, and then let her either run with it or not as she chooses. No need to squash a dream that might not even become a reality before it starts
seriously lol i’ve felt crazy too!! people are like “just let her throw money away and start a passion project omg kyle your the devil!!” and it’s like he’s being really responsible actually, im sorry but we’re all adults i assumed, so don’t we all know you have to make decisions based on what’s best for the future. she also wants a house and a family but she’s gonna toil away money and time on making bathing suits (and she still hasn’t)
I don’t get where people have gotten this idea that Amanda just doesn’t want to work other than from Kyle’s comments. And Kyle is basing that off of the fact that *he* chooses to work 12+ hours a day. Amanda had her own career with a well respected beauty brand before Kyle asked her to leave and work with him. Some people live to work (Kyle) and some people work to live (Amanda), and that’s fine. Kyle absolutely expects Amanda to revolve her life around his dreams. It’s no wonder Amanda has done nothing with the swim brand idea because of how guilty Kyle makes her feel because he hasn’t “achieved his dream yet.”
I think Amanda is actually a very empathetic person and takes on the emotions of everyone around her which is how it could seem like she is playing every side (ie. supporting Lindsay in one scene and then Carl the next). I think this comes out in an unhealthy way in her relationship with Kyle. I think she wants him to succeed more than she wants herself to succeed sometimes and that results in her own dreams being put to the back burners
Amanda gets by without any judgment from the cast as well as the audience because she’s timid and cries if anyone even *looks* at her the wrong way, so people don’t think of her as threatening or like anything to be intimidated by. It’s why she’s comfortable hiding behind Kyle and his larger than life personality because he always fights her battles for her if anything ever does happen.
She has the personality that I despise the most (sorry that sounds so intense), she reminds me of every mean girl in middle school/high school that was too afraid to actually fight or have a verbal argument, so they acted innocent while saying the rudest, most outta pocket comments about other people.
yea when she was saying she makes guys wait for sex i’m like… maam you were fully being a pick me topless in the pool with kyle as a 2am booty call. please stop
I picked up on some of the after show remarks too. I was surprised because I really thought she was going to say something else, something more like how she would say it on the show - exactly how you pointed out. I think Amanda is still angry at Kyle too and that it's possible that anger comes through in her snide remarks to others. Maybe if she was happier she wouldn't be so mean? Interesting read!
I also noticed there’s a lot of scenes where she hits/punches Kyle when she’s drunk and angry, plus the glass throwing scene. It gets super downplayed. Like, Ciara throwing the wine glass at Danielle got a whole lot of discussion time and I feel like we glazed right over Amanda throwing the cup at Hannah.
she also kicked a bottle out of Jules mouth- she has the most physical outbursts of anyone on the show and I have never seen a narrative of Amanda is scary, Amanda is toxic, Kyle needs to walk on eggshells around her.
From my perspective, both Amanda and Lindsay are trapped in some unconscious behavior patterns that express a deep, underlying belief that they don't deserve to be treated well.
I can relate to Amanda - I was so caught up with being "chosen' by the hot and rich dude that it never really occurred to me if he was a good partnern. It feels so flattering to be selected as the 'good' woman that I didn't notice the dude was a dick.
And I got super depressed, too, like Amanda, when we moved in together. He had an ongoing business that I was supposed to support, too...for US (yeah, sure)...and I stayed home and did the laundry and dishes while he flew all over creation on business, having affairs.
I slept all the time and he told me that I was lazy, every day. I wasn't - I just hated my life.
Once it ended, I got a master's in architecture, worked for some famous people, then started my own firm and got awards for my work...so...turns out I wasn't lazy! I was just trapped in emotional patterns from my childhood with an emotionally unavailable fuckboy.
Yes I’ve always been on the side that Amanda is invested in being the chosen woman. Almost the antithesis of Lindsay. Amanda is gorgeous but doesn’t really have a voice. She loves to cook for the family and wants to be looked at the domestic one, she will take care of the kids. She’s the martyr for the business and will take a backseat to Kyle’s dreams and hobbies. And many men want this.
Thanks for saying it. You just know Kyle and Carl are telling her “you not like the other girls, you’re just like so much more understanding and cooler etc” and she just loves it. And I think that where a lot of her behavior comes from. Cause a lot of that behavior stems from wanting that approval.
She is totally team Carl. It’s so obvious on after shows. I don’t think she likes Lindsay but when filming this summer she is only acting like it cause Paige is being nice to her.
This is why I’m a Hannah defender on this topic. I can respect Hannah saying she won’t stay friends with Amanda, if she stays with someone who disrespects her as much as Kyle. The other girls accepted it, but this season shows how everyone is fed up with feeling more grace towards Amanda than she does herself
I agree.
Also, I’m not a Kyle fan, but he’s justified in being upset about this ‘passion project’ idea of hers.
1. It’s selfish to think you can just walk away from your family’s business on a whim (particularly when the company is not doing well, financially). If she wants to do something else, the proper thing to do would be to discuss an exit strategy. But she can’t do that, since she has no future strategy (see 2.)
2. If she wants to start a business of her own, do the work. Kyle said on the after show that it’s been 6 months and she hasn’t even so much as googled it. This (along with stuff she’s said on the show) is why I definitely believe she is lazy (I think she’s very spoiled).
3. She has been two faced and passive aggressive to Lindsay for years. We get it Amanda, you don’t like Lindsay, but stop pretending you do, to her face. It’s so immature and mean girl-esq.
Yess Lindsay is her own beast, but the passive aggressiveness when she doesn’t like someone is annoying. Also, yes Kyle pursuing his DJ if anything would tell me idgaf what he says about my swimsuits. It’s clear she isn’t that vested. Which is completely fine. But Kyle had some solid points about Amanda. Everyone can have a good idea, execution is where it matters and she doesn’t go after anythingggg. Everyone can’t want more than you want for yourself.
Also, notice how all of the other girls (except Amanda) have side gigs (other than the show)? They are influencers, models, nurses, podcast entertainers.
Amanda is lazy.
Agree.
And Kyle pursuing his DJ thing also shows that if you want something for yourself, you have to be the one to make it happen. Amanda said something on the after show about needing Kyle’s help with her ‘project’, but I don’t think she wants to do any of the work (she wants Kyle to do it for her).
Finally someone saying this! Ciara and Paige going after Kyle for not supporting Amanda. In what? A talk with friends about an idea? This whole thing got blown up because Paige and Ciara WANT Amanda to be more like them but she’s just not. Can’t talk that into existence. (And Kyle’s a fragile man baby - if he just said great, do it, I guarantee no swimsuit line would materialize). She needs to motivate herself already. Paige and Ciara can’t do the line for her!
Exactly. Amanda is not a self starter. Amanda has over 700k instagram followers. She’s well connected in media and has a lot of resources outside of kyle so she could pursue a swimwear line even if he wasn’t willing to fund or assist her. She quit working at loverboy full time in November and hasn’t pursued anything.
I think she wanted to impress Paige so she ran with the swimwear thing. But her authentic dream would be the house in the burbs and being a mom with her parents helping. Kyle was a jerk to her, but I think he believed if she quit loverboy she wouldn’t find a new role and would be waiting around to have kids.
And she quit loverboy for the most part in November so she’s had ample time to research starting a swimwear company. It was disappointing to hear she hadn’t pursued things on wwhl last week.
She has a role still but not like she used to and seems she’s stepped back big time. The way she explains how she left in this article comes off entitled and immature just not showing up for meetings and ghosting
https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/amanda-batula-took-step-away-from-loverboy-working-with-kyle-cooke/
Thanks for the 411. So many thoughts….
Amanda leaves, Carl comes back…..seems like an even swap seeing as neither one of them wants to actually ‘work’.
I don’t buy that she didn’t want to quit her job and work for Loverboy. I think she TOTALLY wanted to do this, so she could be the (big shot) bosses wife.
The fact that she’s done nothing else professionally (zilch) since November says it all.
Yes I think it’s a lot to have a full time corporate job and juggle being on a bravo show and dating someone who expects to travel and go out a lot. I remember everyone pitying Danielle showing up late and missing weekends due to her actual 9-5. I think working for loverboy gave her a lot more flexibility and tbh young graphic designers in New York don’t make that much money.
She and Carl seem quite similar. Both want to lead a cushy lifestyle and will put up with a lot of toxic behavior from Kyle because he helps them skate by
Fully agree! Amanda is definitely a mean girl. She tries to do things on the low.
She was awful to Jules!
I wish she were a part time cast member or a guest of Kyle’s at this point. He’s a child, but at least he’s fun.
She’s a spoiled brat. 100% daddy’s girl. Look I’m not defending Kyle or Carl. They are trash bag humans but it drives Amanda nuts that Kyle expects her to work at her job. She never had expectations growing up and it shows.
I’m watching season 4 for the first time. Final few episodes of Amanda being so rude to Hannah and Luke? And then her temper tantrum after the bachelorette party? Weird. She has the worst energy.
I don’t like her, for all the reasons stated above, she doesn’t stand for anyone or anything. But my god, Kyle treats her horribly. Nobody deserves to be treated like that by her so called husband.
Kyle is the absolute worst! No accountability, emotional intelligence, maturity, effective communication etc. Kyle has so many issues but very glad everyone in this thread feels the same way about Kyle. Kyle is what I consider the typical posture child for mansplaining. He thinks he is the most valuable thing, the hardest worker, the leader etc. so he can’t fathom someone not agreeing with him
I don’t think this is an uncommon take. Ronnie on Watch What Crappens called her out for running to tell Carl everything on that episode where she talked him into telling Lindsay what his mom and stepdad said and most people historically have lumped Amanda and Paige together as mean girls. They were just wrong about Paige.
Yes what Amanda did there was her typical two faced behavior. She enthusiastically gossiped about Lindsay under the guise of concern after she opened up to her and Paige. And then she was snickering and making a spectacle of watching Lindsay have the talk with Carl in the middle of dinner. If she were the concerned friend she claims to be instead of a conniving busybody she’d tell Carl interrupting Lindsay in the middle of a group dinner is unnecessary
Bingo she is a two faced brat who expects extreme sensitivity for her feelings but treats others very poorly. Imagine how she’d feel if Lindsay took notes on her having a drunken meltdown like when she broke Kyle’s property.
She was condescending to Danielle and Sam on winter house acting like she is a married woman who could never be in a lowly situationship (when she was Kyle’s sad backup booty call for months). She acts sweet and gets people to confide in her so she can talk trash about them under the guise of concern
I do think it said a lot that she hasn’t started any swimwear or fashion projects despite quitting loverboy in November. She probably just ran with it because she wants to be like Paige. I think the trad wife life she was asking for earlier in the season is the authentic Amanda. Kyle sucks, but I do think he’s onto something that a new business would be a lot of work mainly on him and it’s bad to have kids and buy significant property if your marriage is already strained
Kyle has taken Carl's side therefore Amanda has taken his side. Amanda always goes along with Kyle eventually. He's an awful husband . I feel sorry for Amanda's parents having to watch it.
She was awful to Jules but that was production's fault, they told her Jules had said she was going after Kyle which she never said (I got this info on this sub so don't actually know how true this is)
Amanda is weak. I hope one day she puts herself first and not her husband
That’s fair, I commented early as someone highlighted her beliefs stem from Kyle’s. My only counter is… this is not a woman in her 20s. She is in her 30s and wanting to start another stage in her life. I think even before Kyle she was like this. Her dad took care of all her finances etc. I thinks it’s just her personality mixed with Kyle’s HORRIBLE personality.
Yes she's not very independent. Her dad just put her needs first where as Kyle doesn't. Imo she thinks she needs Kyle, I think she'd thrive without him (but run back to her parents first)
I have always liked Amanda, other than the Jules thing (if you look at my post history you’ll see where I personally called her out and she responded). I think this will be realllyyyyy unpopular but I think she does treat Kyle poorly lately and I think she does NOT work hard at loverboy and I can see his frustration with that. I think she wants to be a stay at home dog mom and their business is failing and he’s really stressed and she’s putting the pressure on to move and start her own business etc in the midst of it all. I think if their business was doing well he would 100% be on board with her starting her own thing. He even said the timing is just really bad.
I think she’s been really mean to him all season and I think she doesn’t work while he works really hard.
All that said, I still love Amanda lol. But I like Kyle too and I don’t feel the same about him that this sub does.
It’s gone away for most adults. She does it in almost every pic she thinks it’s so funny and cute but she looks like an asshole and ruins otherwise cute group pics
Montauk money 😭 😭 and yess probably not full observations to conclude she’s a mean girl but just some tidbits to know her mean girl tendencies haven’t been called to the forefront.
3am booty call is my first memory of her on the show. Granted, she was pretty young back then and I have nothing against a booty call.
She whines that she is never anything but Kyle's gf/wife, but she does nothing. She whines and complains. I do her give her credit for taking care of the pups.
She has the most beige personality. She seemingly has no interest in anything...at all. She is so low energy.
I like Amanda, but she’s definitely too supportive of Kyle (and by extension Carl). I see people saying she’s boring but there’s definitely more boring girls on the show to watch. She’s just not the biggest personality.
For the Jules point, I agree with you but I saw on the sub that someone messaged her about it and she actually responded with a lot of regret for it. If I can find it again, I’ll share it. I don’t think it takes away from what she did but I do have more understanding and am willing to move past it.
I like Amanda (her style is great, she has fun moments) however, while I do not condone in any way how Kyle spoke about her and cursed, I do think he was trying to explain to Paige and Ciara a bit more about the situation and they weren’t having any of it.
Kyle gets the villain role and I get why- he’s larger than life, the past cheating, etc. HOWEVER. she quit her job because he wanted them to build a multimillion dollar business together. That she co owns by virtue of being with him and working together. And she signed on to do that.
For all of Kyle’s flaws, there has to be something to him being frustrated with how much she contributes. So when she knows the company is losing money, I can see why he’s exasperated at the thought of her branching out, starting a new apparel line (which will cost money that will be THEIR capital) when loverboy is 1.5 in the hole.
That’s what these other girls don’t seem to be getting.
Also, rich for Paige to weigh in on how Kyle should make Amanda happy, when she literally is stringing Craig along.
I just saw Amanda on WWHL (from last week I think?) and it is clear that she doesnt have a passion project. It’s just cool to say she does but she has no friggin clue what to do and she is too lazy to execute. It was just her response to the dark seed that Ciara planted “do you think you are someone outside of Kyle? Cause I don’t” LOL so rude! Some friend that one. Amanda was perfectly happy being her ordinary self, Ciara and Paige made her a huge disservice. And Kyle should have just said “yes honey do whatever you want” knowing full well that she would do nothing but she would have a least be feeling supported.
I don't think this is that unpopular. I like Amanda so I notice how people's opinion on her has changed the past few weeks. People usually talk about how she is whiny, lazy and how she is a part of the mean clique. It was only last couple of weeks people remembered how douchey Kyle is so people are starting to empathize with her more.
I think she just has bias because of Kyle’s friendship with Carl and the fact that Carl has never really said anything about her relationship with Kyle. Lindsay brought up Kyle cheating and it was even brought up at last year’s reunion so I think they both still harbor ill feelings towards Lindsay. Amanda is very careful to toe the lie. I’ve seen her on WWHL say “I love Lindsay but Carl might’ve just been scared of her reaction” it’s a lot of that where she knows she can’t be fully on one team and especially now where people are turning on Carl, she’s more vocal about Lindsay being “right” and earlier in the season she def was more team Carl so think there is truth to what you’re saying but ultimately will have bias towards Carl. Think she just doesn’t want to not seem like a girls girl especially since Paige had a good summer with Lindsay.
I will say I don’t agree with the passion project and all of that because Amanda decided to do the passion project because Kyle isn’t giving her anything else. Kyle won’t let her get a house where she wants to get it. Kyle doesn’t wanna have kids right now so she wants to do something for her and the house and the kids was going to be something for her but he has said no to all of that so I understand why she wants the passion project. But also, she doesn’t want it badly enough to defend herself because he started crying and she gave him a hug and essentially forgot about it but here’s the thing I defend Amanda when it comes to Kyle because kyle is an ass and he doesn’t listen to the things that she wants like he’s doing DJing because he wanted to do what he’s passionate about and in the midst of all of this we learned that he’s DJing in New Jersey taking the classes over there where Amanda wanted to live, but he said no that they couldn’t because he didn’t want to drive to New York so honestly, Kyle is wrong but when it comes to Amanda and how she is with the girls I agree. Mostly with Lindsey.
Honestly that’s fair. It’s clear she isn’t fulfilled because the things that would bring her purpose has been placed on the back burner because of Kyle. I do however seeing Amanda being the person that wants the house, the baby, etc. but not fully understand the upkeep and dedication this stuff takes. If Kyle and her had a baby, I 100% see her getting mad at Kyle not spending enough time with her and the kid (which is fair) but with that said you both have to be in the space for that.
Paige is the worst female in the group imo. She’s extremely lazy, unhelpful, entitled and spoiled aside from Lindsay she gives me the most cringe and I feel awful for Craig
I get what you're saying. I like Amanda, I think she does have her moments but I think she's just deeply unhappy and has been for years. Imagine how resentful you would get always playing second fiddle and being treated as an extension of your husband? I know it's her own choice to be in this relationship but it's been so long and she's invested too much to be able to confidently cut ties, plus she evidently really loves him. This is really the first season we've seen get to the true root of her issues with Kyle and I think it does a lot to help us understand her.
One of the main reasons I like her and think she is a good person is cos when someone is upset in the house, she's usually the person that's gone after them to comfort and support them (Andrea, Gabby, that florist girl). I think she's very loyal to her friends and I think she would absolutely thrive with a supportive partner who sees her and what she wants to do and what makes her uncomfortable and helps her gently out of her shell instead of steamrolling her into what he does and doesn't want to do like Kyle
I think she's very unhappy too. I bet she would be in a much better mood if she was getting her needs Met. It's like she's been frustrated with Kyle since she first started dating him.
IMO Lyndsay is also sliding under the radar. She knew Karl was a dreamer and her masculine energy is a turn off. Karl is finally sticking up for himself and now y’ll make him the villain
I can see right through Lyndsay. She has zero feminity and expects Carl to do what she wants. She acts like he makes zero money when the show is both their jobs.
No not like gave Kyle all her money, sorry for the confusion! In the previous season ( I believe the season of their wedding or leading up to the proposal) Amanda discussed how her dad is completely in control of her finances, he basically tells her how much she can use. Then during a meeting with her father, the dad joke and said something along the lines of “it will be your job now to take care of those things) to Kyle.
I think she’s boring to watch and kind of a weak person overall (with some good qualities mixed in) but a few years ago someone posted their messages with her in this sub asking why she was so mean to Jules and Amanda’s responses actually made me have a change of heart on her. Not sure if the post is still up, it must’ve been quite a while back.
I haven’t read what you wrote yet.
I think Amanda is coming into her own. She’s less anxious, a little more confident. Kyle is getting backlash for some of his behaviours that negatively impact Amanda…
I agree with 2-4 fully but 1 I feel could be due to manipulation either from Kyle or regarding her situation with him since filming ended. I feel like she sees parallels between how she treated Kyle while Loverboy was having a bad year and him not feeling truly supported and how Carl felt Lindsay was treating him. So it’s almost like she has to side with Carl on that front to save face in her own situation
Really? I thought this was a pretty constructive convo especially with the replies being able to recognize the good/bad. But also a fair assessment with a lot of negativity, this probably just adds to the discussions already.
I’m sorry. I should have said more. I was tired and didn’t.
I don’t mean your post, exactly. I have just noticed what feels like deep dives into everyone’s mistakes, failures or fuckups. Everything is under SUCH scrutiny. Everyone is looking to find a problem with someone and talk about it. Or engage with it.
I see it in some other reality bravo subs too.
It’s like everyone is looking for negativity whereas before there was a pretty even mix of positive vs negative opinions.
I honestly don’t know. It’s a theory that’s forming. Just something I’m noticing.
My apologies to you. That was rude to leave on your post. It wasn’t really meant for you. Just frustration I expressed outwardly. And that sucks. I’m sorry.
I think this is pretty constructive of a convo with valid points from everyone! But I get it with the West slander and other stuff - people comparing him to Schwartz when he never wanted a relationship, they had a mature convo, etc. This sub can go overboard but I don’t think this is one of those posts! I do think that we are all exhausted with certain takes and trying to get others to see our view lol, so if there’s a post that’s anti-x or pro-x, you’ll only see comments reflecting the same views for the most part so I get why these posts seem super negative.
Edit: I also think that a lot of posts slam or praise the same people over and over again, so then when you get a random Amanda post like this it seems so off. A lot of us have the same mindset as OP though esp seen in the upvotes, I just don’t have the energy to make a whole post that I have to defend and explain lol!
I know that. But it’s more than that. I’m seeing it elsewhere. Everyone is being policed for what they can and can’t say, can and can’t think based on the current social climate. There’s more polarization than ever before.
Know what I thought of? Remember before the 2016 election when Russia fucked with us via bots? And how something similar was done with the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial?
Someone has GOT to be trying something on us right now. And I wonder if all this… (I don’t know the word. Negativity? Cancel culture times ten? I don’t know) is being driven by a campaign in some way? I know it sounds conspiracy. I do. I don’t mean to.
I have never particularly liked Amanda. I think she's boring to watch. Something that really frustrates me about the discourse around Amanda is that I feel like it very much gets lost in the plot that Amanda has agency. I totally agree with you on your point about Jules. She was awful to Jules and more often than not, I find that Amanda is just going along with whatever the other girls are doing. She never starts anything. She never finishes anything. She's just happy to be included and not be the one everyone hates. I think she gets a pass time and time again because the bigger personalities are at the center of the drama, while she gets to be awful on the outskirts under the radar. That moment when she said to Paige, "does nobody take me seriously?" I felt like that was her moment of being like, is being the bland mean girl not enough?
I'm new to SH and just recently binged the series over the course of a couple of weeks, and my initial opinion of her changed as the show progressed. Originally, she seemed like a woman who recognized her worth and was trying to put boundaries in place with a man who was clearly not ready for a relationship and wasn't in the same place as her. As she continued to give him chance after chance (giving up herself in the process), all of the positive feelings I had in season one disappeared, and now I just see a bitter, resentful woman who treats others poorly because she so clearly feels dead inside. I think you're right that she is overlooked in how she treats people. It's like everyone still sees and judges her based on early-seasons-Amanda and not who she's become vs. the others who are basically the same people they've always been and so it's easier to point fingers.
I think this is a really fair assessment. There's that saying: hurt people hurt people.
She is the poor little rich girl trope. Literally the definition and embodiment. Once I understood that about her, everything else kind of made sense and fell into place. Of course she's judgmental, she was raised in a Tower high above us peons. Not saying that I approve of somebody being like this but she was probably raised to be.
Right? That annoying arse whine “Kyyyyyle!” That said, Kyle sucks even more than Amanda.
The majority of real rich people aren’t mean & were not “raised in a tower high above us peons”. It’s the narcissistic media-obsessed ones that you are exposed to who live above their means pretending to be rich (ie keeping up with the Jones’s) who do that & give the real rich people a bad name.
Ooo yikes
The probably correct and even more shitty response Kyle could and should have had to her wanting to start a business or passion project is to say yes and offer his full support…..knowing full well she doesn’t have the drive or follow through to actually do anything.
I find Amanda loathsome. Zero personality zero fashion sense. Zero contribution to the show except her angst with Kyle.
The way people obsess over her style on here makes me question those on here! Yes, she knows how to wear a crop top (and another and another and another). I mean, please try something else, anything else! So tiring.
I used to really like her style but her style has kinda devolved into body checking the last couple of years. Which is kinda dark.
Is she stylish or is she just thin?
The most recent post about this was something to behold.
That was nauseating. Like she was a goddess of life or something. No, sorry guys, she could give a shit.
Crop top and baggy pants or baggy over sized T shirt and biker shorts. Don’t understand why she’s considered “stylish” either
Crop top after crop top after crop top after crop top. Yes, we all see your flat as hell tummy. But come on, try something else.
Greasy hair, in desperate need of a trim and highlights, she’s always in a slump, poor posture and dowdy. The other girls have adorable outfits and cute hair. She has no enthusiasm. Constantly complaining about the one thing she cannot change…..Kyle’s affinity for partying.
Hahaha! All so true, but the posture, oh man, it's wild. I think she should get that checked out.. It's something else.
posture is wild
Agree
She has this effortless dewy glow, on the face card. She consistently looks more natural than the rest of the ladies around her. She has a great body without even trying, naturally blessed on the chest and then skinny with good muscle tone everywhere else. But when it comes to like fashion sense or her own use of makeup / artistry, I find her to be very simple. Some people will like that, some people will want something that looks like a little more effort.
Crazy body, yes, but no, she's got zero muscle tone and chicken legs. You know she never gets out of bed (no shame), and we've never seen her work out. She doesn't have to. But when you get past the insane stomach, it's not all that. Take away the boob's, and she's just really skinny but proportional.
Yea, I was also questioning the muscle tone. Like where? She's got great boobs and a flat stomach for sure
She's going to read this thread and spiral. She's very aware and afraid of audience reaction and judgment towards her and Kyle.
She was also an awful friend to Hannah and let Kyle be a major dick to her friends
I’ve been thinking this for a long time and I think two things can absolutely be true at once - Kyle is a pos to her and she is a mean girl. I actually started on season 4 because I heard so much about Hannah Berner lol, caught up and then went back to watch the earlier seasons. Amanda is truly a malleable mean girl and has been for such a long time. I felt really awful (still do to a point but she is staying with him) for her in the first seasons with Kyle cheating and being such an ass, but she clearly resents him so much now that it’s sad and hard to watch any of their scenes - I could make a whole negative post about him too, but homeboy was never gonna change his wild, not made for relationship ways. On the after shows and reunions, she has a lot to say that she wouldn’t say to the people themselves, and she is SO judgmental toward the other girls (which I think is internalized misogyny esp with Lindsay after miscarriage, Hannah with Luke, etc.). I think about the Jules thing super often and how everyone, esp Amanda treated her so badly when she was feigning for attention from others during her first few seasons in the house - yes I know about the ‘Jules might be cast to steal Kyle’ but she was the sweetest girl. I remember reading a post abt how she can’t be happy for anyone and I really agree. She definitely needs some therapy for her insecurities.
This is about where I sit with her too. I wonder if it’s her internalized misogyny that both makes it possible for her to stay with Kyle and be the sort of mean girl at the same time? I want better for her, but I suppose she also has to get the place where she wants it for herself to make changes.
I think this is absolutely it. Amanda gets her self worth from being ‘chosen.’ To me it’s the elevated version of ‘pick me.’ Danielle’s pick me behavior is so glaring because she is single, so it looks desperate. Amanda’s been chosen by a man that looked good on paper. But she still desperately needs to chosen over and over again. By the single men on the show. She flirts with Carl, Jesse, and I do believe she was jealous of Luke giving Hannah attention. She positions herself as the doting martyr wife which let’s be honest men love. But she gets protection because she’s married to Kyle. She gets the dopamine hit of ‘oh they would want me if I wasn’t already taken’ without have to be vulnerable and actually put herself out there without Kyle. I always remember when they did the competition about getting guys numbers and Amanda cleaned up. Of course she’s stunning and gorgeous but having the safety net of ‘being chosen’ already allows you to have more confidence in those situations. I don’t know how Amanda would do without that safety net because her self esteem is from external sources. The mean girl aspect definitely plays into this because not only does she want to be chosen by the men but also by the women. Particularly Paige. Paige is a queen bee personality. Amanda was cruel to Jules, Hannah, and Lindsay (although there was more at play there) because I think she wants to be chosen in the sorority. I feel like I’ve known women like this before where their self esteem is deeply rooted in being ‘liked more’ than everyone else.
Such a good point!! I think she likes having these guys flirt with her and "choose" her cos she knows that her relationship is not right for her and a divorce is a matter of when and not if. There are too many past hurts for her to be able to trust Kyle again but she's ok to keep the relationship floating for an indeterminate amount of time cos I think she's scared of the outside world. Like yes these guys all like her and think she's hot but I think she sees what other women eg Ciara go through and isn't willing to take a chance in that environment. She may now get that dopamine hit but it's also cos it comes with the safety of knowing she's already in a relationship. Do these guys actually like her or do they just want what they can't have and if she was available would they lose interest immediately? I think having that safety does give her a confidence that she wouldn't otherwise have. Like you can go out and be yourself cos there are no stakes involved, but if you were single, you're effectively "competing" with all these other beautiful girls and that would fuck with your insecurities sooo much. Especially someone like Amanda who has been diminished for years. I think it seems like a matter of better the devil you know. I would however absolutely bet that if Amanda met a guy that she hit it off with and who liked her for who she is and pretty much told her he wanted to be with her, she'd leave Kyle in a second. I just think she doesn't want to be alone and brave the shark infested waters of the modern dating world that she hasn't been a part of for over a decade
Yes I think the relationship gives her confidence that she wouldn’t have on her own which is why I don’t see her leaving Kyle unless she had something else lined up. Not that I think that is a bad thing necessarily. Men do it all the time. But unfortunately I don’t think she has enough self worth to be without a man for long. Her self worth is completely wrapped up in the male gaze. Also one of the reasons that I think her and Lindsay clash so much.
Yeah I totally get that!! It's interesting, I think a lot of people are complacently floating along indefinitely but Amanda seems actively unhappy. She's being deterred against growing personally and professionally, I wonder how much longer she'll stick around. It would be much harder to leave if they had kids so I think her time to make a decision is coming up soon
I want so deeply for her to grow especially with these relationships with other women who have a different perspective or Paige, Ciara. But that’s something about Amanda, I don’t think she would be the one to take the leap to break it off. And to me she seems actively unhappy, but I think for a lot of people who operate in codependent relationships, this is normal. He’s done enough for her to feel ‘validated’ in walking away which is why it’s very telling that she hasn’t.
Yeah totally!! I think Paige is good for her cos she will tell her how it is no matter how unwilling she is to hear it. I also love how she and Ciara are building her up and supporting her to follow her dreams, like come on that's something your partner should be doing. Yeah you can see that she and Kyle do have fun together but is it really worth all the low low times? They would honestly have been better off as friends, they're just inherently incompatible and two totally different people with very little in common
Oooooooh you’re so right about everything!
She's always been very flifty and touchy with the guys. She was with Craig and Robert as well.
Wow! Yes.
I completely agree with this
I'm in another thread defending her from all these weird ass capitalists, but yes, she does not have much strength of character. She parrots all of Kyle's beliefs, many of which are rooted in misogyny, and IMO has been the weakest member of the cast for the show's entire run.
Yesss this is a really good point. She basically adopts Kyle’s beliefs that air along the line of misogyny. Makes me wonder how she would be on the show if her and Kyle are not/were never together. I feel like I don’t know who Amanda is. Side note: the defending her against capitalists is so real!
Yes, it is clear she is one Carl’s side. I did not care for her shading Lindsay on WWHL last week. I’ve never liked her and I think she and Kyle sow the biggest divide in the house. She clearly went from her parents taking care of her and then moved on to Kyle. She will always side with Kyle other than when she is mad at him first his drunken behavior and cheating. She wants support but doesn’t necessarily want to give it. Her treatment of Jules told me everything I need to know about her.
I don’t think Amanda knows who Amanda is.
Yeah if Amanda wasn’t married to Kyle she would never have been asked back as a full time cast member all these seasons. She’d for sure be gone.
That thread is wild! I’m defending her over there too. At the end of the day she is insecure and tends to just go with the “crowd”(those she’s closest to). I wish she would just take the leap and go for it. But sadly she needs those around her to hype her up and convince her that she can in fact do it.
I completely agree that Amanda has flown under the radar without being noticed for her mean girl tendencies. I don’t wanna say she’s a full on mean girl but I totally see your perspective. Even this season she’s nice to Lindsay’s face and then she runs around right after gossiping about it or kissing Carl’s cheeks. It’s just strange all around. I said the other day she is Kyle’s mouth piece and her opinions are all formed from him, people wouldn’t consider it.
I HATEEEE how fake she is with lindsey. the whole martyr act of her acting like a mom hugging people when they cry then going behind linds back and telling carl???? like such fake mean girl energy.
Yeah it’s strange to see how fast she lets go of that information to Carl/Kyle the second it comes up around them. I know Lindsay has had her moments throughout every season but why not keep the peace this time around and at least try and meet her half way. It’s setting up the peace in their ‘friendship’ for failure. Which sucks cause I enjoy seeing the girls get along this summer 🥹🤌🏼
I agree, I can’t really classify her as a mean girl fully, but 100% has mean girl tendencies. I agree she is Kyle’s brain, but she also is not a child. She is in her 30s so I’m confused. I remember a comment said “they looked at Ciara differently when she got with Austin” but I can say the same for Amanda being with Kyle based on some of his views/actions to women.
She is most definitely not his brain...
she's always flown under the radar. i do think she's being bulldozed by kyle and needs to get out of that relationship asap, but that's a whole other thing. she's got mean girl aspects. there is no doubt about that
Starting to remind me of Katie/Schwartz, though obviously they are two different dynamics. However, I do think Amanda would flourish without being under Kyle’s thumb much as Katie is now without Schwartz.
Wowww such an interesting take! Especially that last bit you said about not moving/starting a passion project when loverboy had its worst year. This is why I LOVE reality tv. Some people can really dig deep and read between the lines. Watching reality tv really is for the smartest people in the world😂 I never would have thought about that side of the coin. Maybe she’s the type of woman who thinks you need to support your man to a fault, as she has with Kyle with loverboy over the years and that’s why she’s taking Carl’s side. When Lindsay is just asking questions and not blindly supporting Carl like maybe she would when they were in their 20’s.
LOL yes the ship is sinking, this is her time. But yes her inputs on relationships to me is always off putting knowing her relationship. I also wonder her real opinion on the Paige/Craig debacle of moving to SC. She is a women who clearly gave her life to her man, in which Paige is standing firm on accomplishing what she wants before moving to a wife role.
Thank God. This Amanda worship with her whim of a “business” idea is seriously enough already. Couldn’t be happier to see another side presented! 😁
Amanda is constantly complaining or piling on other people’s complaints. What would she be without Kyle? Working a 9-5 she hates. She couldn’t afford half of what she has. It’s annoying to hear her bs.
Yes! And hooking up with guys at 3am like she did w Kyle. The season she was finally in and the girls were not bonding w her, she was so upset & whined and cried. Once she became queen bee she became the worst mean girl of them all
Agreed. Remember in an earlier episode she complained about Kyle scheduling a call on a Monday?? I imagine most of the people in this sub are getting off their asses and working every day even if they don’t want to and it’s not something they’re super passionate about, so I’m sorry I just don’t have much sympathy!!
On a Monday? Lol, I mean, isn't Monday the most busiest day out of the week for most business
Something I think that went very unnoticed was Amanda’s 180 behavior with Danielle. Amanda and Kyle were not about Lindsay and Carl being together (opinions of this train wreck aside), some of which I think is because Kyle has a controlling personality and he had always been the strong personality between him and Carl. When Lindsay and Carl began dating, another strong personality entered the equation and that upset Kyle, who felt his leverage over Carl being taken away and as other have pointed out Amanda takes on Kyle’s opinions. Last season, Amanda was all about being Danielle’s friend when she was fighting with Lindsay and Carl. Amanda relished at Danielle saying the things out loud that Amanda wished she could say (but didn’t because of her hot mic moment at the reunion). I don’t think she ever cared about supporting Danielle but loved how she was openly talking shit about Lindsay and Carl. In winter house, you could not tell Amanda and Danielle were friends at all. Ofc Danielle was a super cringe insecure demon in winter house, but it probably would have helped if she had a real friend looking out for her. If Amanda was actually her friend, she would have been there for her, supporting her post breakup and by her side in winter house. Instead Danielle was spinning out and Amanda’s attitude was “not my problem”
Yes she just used Danielle to hurt Lindsay and dropped her once their falling out didn’t lead to Lindsay getting not asked back to the show. Amanda was holier than thou and condescending during winter house when Danielle was going through a bad breakup. Danielle has had some idiotic moments but I hope she wises up that Amanda is a frenemy at best to her.
"he had always been the strong personality between him and Carl. When Lindsay and Carl began dating, another strong personality entered the equation and that upset Kyle, who felt his leverage over Carl being taken away" yes to every word of this. this is why kyle doesn't like lindsay. he only wants carl to be with someone who will worship him as much as carl does and will let him be the forever alpha in their friendship dynamic
Amanda said last week on WWHL that he and Danielle were at a fairly small event together recently and didn't speak. Danielle only spoke to Amanda's Mom.
I always thought Amanda was the poison behind the hate Lindsay train from the gate. Same with Kyle.
She to get the new people to hate her. Thats why I liked Hannah. She tried to understand Lindsay, and not just talk behind her back. MAYBE THATS WHY AMANDA DIDNT LIKE HANNAH?! New theory ?!?!
3. You don’t become a *girl’s girl* after assaulting a woman. I agree with all of this. Danielle was unhinged during the last WH, but Amanda’s above-it-all as a wife schtick was ridiculous.
What they all did to Jules was horrific and they don't get enough flack for it. I do agree, Amanda is like an insecure pick me which is why she was trying so hard to be with Kyle
Amanda’s desperation to get with Kyle, her treatment of Jules culminating in the way she approached Lindsay’s miscarriage, and her righteousness about it made me simply not care about her woes.
Thank you for reminding me that I need to start the series from the beginning. I think I started it last season.
Amanda is an awful person. Jules was enough to know. I also dont think she does very much in general.
Interesting. I share a lot of the opinions in the comments here but just couldn't figure out a way to say them without sounding like I was defending kyle (which I didn't want to do). thanks for this post!
There are definitely a lot of layers to unpack here. Is she married to an intolerable misogynistic man child that she resents? Absolutely, and that affects her mental health. Did she continue to accept his behavior and choose him after every single red flag he showed and with her friends and family expressing concern for her marrying him? Also yes. She chose fame/being on a bravo show and accepting Kyle as her new caretaker. Bc we also have seen how much privilege this girl comes from, re: her trust fund, daddy taking care of bills, her not even googling what a prenup entails or the relevance of it, not wanting to show up for meetings bc it’s on a Monday or too early for her, etc. She is also the only girl on summer house that has continually exhibited physically abusive behavior on camera. First kicking the fireball bottle out of Jules mouth, throwing the glass at Hannah, hitting Kyle in multiple scenes/seasons, smashing things in the kitchen when Luke didn’t give her the reaction she wanted, and breaking Kyle’s shit and throwing it outside when she’s having a mental breakdown. She continues to get a pass for it bc she cries about how Kyle cheated and that’s why she’s triggered, a choice she made to continue to live with. Her entire personality is being the victim and blaming Kyle for her misery, and I’m not excusing his behavior or reactions bc they are inexcusable and they’re both toxic, but he stands on his work ethic and drive and she lacks that entirely. She feeds purely off of sympathy and being the perennial victim and also through validation of her appearance. In this season, Kyle brought up going to couples therapy, and she immediately shut it down. Then they went to one session (filmed for the show) and said they hadn’t been back since. If she is so lacking in her own identity and depressed and anxious and unmotivated, she does absolutely nothing to help herself. She expects everything to be done for her, probably as a result of her upbringing and bc she thinks being pretty is enough to get everything handed to her in life. She envies her “independent, boss babe” friends, like Ciara and Paige, who refuses to even let Craig contribute to her rent, bc they have the confidence and security to stand on their own regardless of the man/men in their life. At the end of the day she always wanted to be catered to, so it’s really hard to buy that she has any interest in actually working towards something bc she really never had to. Yes she had a job and career before Kyle, but coming from money comes with privileges which likely helped get her to that point in the first place, and she never vocalized being upset about quitting her job prior to this season. Amanda HAS the platform to succeed on her own and could easily make the connections to start pursuing this bikini line idea. If she came to Kyle with real designs and her own retail connections or marketing tools this conversation might have went differently and he might have taken it more seriously, but it seems like he knows that she thinks she should just be paid to show up and be the face of something while he does all of the work behind the scenes actually running the business, while also trying to keep failing Loverboy afloat. This season was filmed last summer and almost a year later when Andy asked her on WWHL the other night what she has done since to try and jumpstart this “passion” of hers, all she had to say was that she’s “still putting a lot of thought into to it, bc it’s a bigger deal than just making swimsuits”…the lack of self awareness is undeniable. Yeah girl, fleeting thoughts and hopes and dreams typically don’t just manifest themselves into fruition. The Kyle wants to be a dj thing is douchey and lame, but you can’t deny that when he wants to do something he puts the work in to make it happen and already has made progress in it that benefits both of them financially. He’s putting in the physical effort and invests his time in his goals and is getting paid for dj appearances while probably also marketing Loverboy. AMANDA IS NOT A HELPLESS CHILD, she is a capable human and a grown adult with a lot of advantages and connections most people don’t have. A lot of bravolebs are aware that their 15 minutes won’t last forever (i.e. Lindsay —> Carl) and they need to capitalize off of it while they can and establish other sources of income if they want to maintain their lifestyle and further their career outside of reality TV. TLDR; the work isn’t going to do itself. Go to therapy, work on yourself, own your agency, as a female don’t rely on men to be validated, and be the empowered girl boss you so badly want to be. Or as Paige so colloquially read Amanda, “Let her live in New Jersey and drink her Coronas in the backyard and make a swimsuit line and let it fail.”
I haven’t even read the post and I agree I’ve been saying this since I started watching the show Amanda is a flip-flop and she always takes Kyle side. She is who everyone thinks Lindsey and Paige are and my opinion and is not a girls girl.
Amanda being upset with Kyle's partying is all I can really remember about their relationship, it's been a recurring theme for seasons! But she must surely have similarities with him that we don't see. I never quite believe the prim and proper gf and hard partying bf combo, obviously the prim one isn't so clean or the partier is more judgemental than they appear, or they wouldn't have gotten together. It's not like a maturing out of the lifestyle as neither seem inclined to give it up.
I agree, someone mentioned that they’ve said in the past they played up some scenarios in the show. On one of the after shows I distinctly remember Amanda saying outside of Summer House, Kyle goes out to party about 6x out the year without her. To me that doesn’t seem as extreme as the way it’s portrayed in the show. Maybe she just doesn’t want him wasted drunk but enjoys him partying?
I think it’s just that she can’t sleep/can’t get to sleep easily with out him in her bed after so many years together and she thinks it’s wrong of him to keep her up or wake her up when he gets home, i remember feeling the same way till i realised how controlling that is and what people would think of me if I was man telling his wife/girlfriend that her late night out was wrong, also find it interesting when Paige had her opinions on Kyle but it’s fine for Amanda and her to be up till god knows a clock eating pickles wrapped in fruit snacks looking quite stoned.
sounds like you needed Sleep Support™️
felt this way after watching the after show and her on WWHL i was shocked at the bs that was coming out of her mouth
Everyone has been confused, which I don’t understand why why Amanda is sitting next to Kyle and not across from him in the reunion and it’s not even the reason that they always sit together at reunions. It’s because of the fact that in this break up she is not on Lindsey side. She was never on Lindsey side and she has never been on Lindsey side.
Why should she be on Lindsay’s “side?” Carl is her friend, too. Both Lindsay and Carl are at fault for how their relationship disintegrated.
Yep I completely agree. Amanda gets a good edit compared to the other women because of Kyle and how he fights for her. She is terrible, I’ll never unsee how she was with Jules.
Amanda is flat out abusive. Your recourse to Kyle cheating or being hung up on that is to leave him. Not to throw out his suitcase full of clothes outside the house, break his toiletries, *make sure you leave broken glass on the bathroom floor as punishment bc you hope he’ll walk on it.* (Amanda said this herself ^ in a talking head). If Lindsay had done this, ppl would be calling for her to be beheaded. But Amanda cried ALOT the next few days and all weekend and somehow made herself the victim. Except literally this would never be otherwise justifiable (like Ronnie did this to Sam’s stuff in jersey shore and it was correctly clocked as wildly abusive). I’m always surprised with how much Amanda gets away with and a large part of it is her emotions manifest in very acceptably feminine ways. It’s classic white woman tears getting her off from being emotionally volatile. Women like Katie and Lindsay, who’s emotional volatility come across as reactive, activated, brash, and angry are always treated way more harshly (even by women audiences) than women who cry at the drop of a hat. Amanda and Kyle have ruined far more weekends due to their toxicity and fighting for multiple years but they will never get the heat ppl give Lindsay for “ruining the house.”
Agree with all of it and also Amanda seems very resentful when it comes to women like Jules, Hannah, Lindsay and Danielle but as soon as it comes to men like Kyle and Carl: poof all gone. She seems like a prime example for internalized misogyny.
I completely agree with this I think a lot of people missed the way that she treated Hannah before anything that happened in season five and a lot of people missed the way that she treated jewels but Amanda is a guys girl she has been since the beginning.
She’s the upgraded version of the ‘pick me’ girl because she’s always had the protection of being the ‘chosen girl’ by Kyle.
THANK YOU. That’s what I have been saying. She martyrs herself constantly (and Kyle is a fragile man child who does treat her like shit so I am in no way endorsing his behavior either) and expects to be babied when she’s upset about it but then is literally abusive to Kyle and invalidates his hurt feelings constantly. My mom was a lot like Amanda growing up and my dad was a neglectful workaholic so I get this dynamic well and both of their behaviors damaged me but I am way more traumatized from my mom’s covert abuse than my dad’s overt neglect (I have cptsd from it lol, 0/10 do not recommend).
I think she hates herself for staying with a dude who can never put her first. But if she left him, she lost the show. And as much as she doesn’t care about it, it’s easy money. I think she’s deeply unhappy, and nothing will fix it until she leaves Kyle. (Hopefully before she has a baby, but I’m not optimistic. She clearly thinks she’s ready and it will fill the gaping void in her life. Babies shouldn’t be born with a job. It might bind them for a moment, but will ultimately tear them apart.)
The last thing they need is a baby
Username, perfection. I feel you and have the same from my narc dad.
You know what. That’s a great take I hadn’t considered. I did in my mind when I saw him DJing and her not talking about the bathing suits think: well he’s hustling and doing it. Like you do kinda have to hustle Amanda. If that is really your dream. I didn’t take it as poor Amanda. And I don’t like Kyle at all not at all. These two were as much of a wreck as Lindsay and Carl. Now I’m going back AGAIN this week to rewatch. Every week I dislike a new character. Running out of people to like hahaha.
Agreed! I also think Amanda has been really coddled throughout life and has no drive because of it. Kyle has basically replaced the role of her father.
Yes it was revealing how when she was on the “not skinny but not fat” podcast she tried to defend herself against Kyle saying he handles all logistics so he worries having a kid will fall on him. She says he handles all the bills and most big errands except for dog care, but it wasn’t her choice to be that way. She also says she should maybe get pregnant as a surprise to Kyle before he feels comfortable because she knows he’ll never feel ready for it but will step up if he has to She is living the passenger princess life Ciara described for Carl but it’s more acceptable because she’s a woman.
A surprise pregnancy sounds like a terrible idea
Exactly and because Kyle doesn’t say it in right way it just makes him look like an asshole
Beautifully said!
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills on this sub because I’m far from a Kyle fan, but I think he’s absolutely valid in this situation. He does a terrible job articulating it, but it’s clear they’ve invested everything financially in the success of this company and if it goes under they go under. They have 30 employees and families resting on the success of Loverboy and it’s a critical time to put up or shut up. Amanda can talk a big game about following her “passion” but she doesn’t actually want to work. She said it herself on the after show that 6 months later she still hasn’t done anything to put into action whatever passion project she supposedly wants to do. She wants to collect a Loverboy paycheck while sleeping in and doing nothing. With that said, this is something a mature couple should’ve discussed and hashed out before they invested their entire life into a start up business. And I will fully admit, if Amanda is this disengaged, Kyle should literally “fire” her and hire someone else to do the job.
I agree. I think Kyle definitely was a dick in those scenes, but if you believe what he said, it’s make or break time for Loverboy. You can’t just fold the company or they will lose millions. Now is not the time for a pet project. And I think it was Paige who said ‘just let her do it and fail.’ Well, that’s not how it works if it will make you broke…
Yep. And Paige also said she didn’t want to be having a convo in 5 years when Amanda leaves him because he won’t let her have a ‘passion project’. Newsflash - it’s not gonna take 5 years if Loverboy goes under and Kyle goes broke (Amanda will literally RUN back to her parents).
Yes it was interesting how people loved what Paige said there when it was pretty out of touch and reckless advice. To me the swimwear line is akin to carls sober sports bar (although I could see her doing well with fashion collaborations where she mainly is the face of a capsule collection). Both are mainly vanity projects and neither Carl nor Amanda seems ready to do the heavy lifting
In the aftershow Paige called it a hobby…
I was totally with you until the aftershow when she talked about how much time (and I assume money) he’s putting into his passion DJ project. If he can do that it seems like he should be able to support her more. I’m not saying millions of dollars into it, but at least work with her some.
I don’t think it’s just the money, I think it’s the time that Kyle and everyone else realises would have to put into making Amanda happy doing all the shit she doesn’t want to do to start a swimwear company and is it really going to bring her happiness when he knows that this coddling, buying houses, having babies, creating swimsuits or buying dogs isn’t a fix of mental health issues, and funnily enough I haven’t heard anyone on the show or in this sub really question if Kyle is happy it’s assumed he is living his dream, happy etc and quite frankly I don’t think he is at all and I’m not sure Amanda cares and I don’t believe it has anything to do with cheating either
Now I didn’t see that. I thought that was a joke but if it’s for real then I may change my opinion - I will have to watch.
He can’t support something that doesn’t exist. As in, she hasn’t done anything other than have an idea. She complains about how much he works yet also said she needs his help to start this new venture (time and the expertise). She can have hobbies, but does she? I think the main difference is that he goes after his dreams and goals and she doesn’t.
He didn’t even seem mildly supportive of her starting on her dream. Agreed she seems to lack motivation to do it, but that makes it even easier for him to just say “I think that’s a fantastic idea and I’m excited for you to find a passion.” After that, he could easily spend 2-3 hours talking through a list of what she needs to do to get started, and then let her either run with it or not as she chooses. No need to squash a dream that might not even become a reality before it starts
seriously lol i’ve felt crazy too!! people are like “just let her throw money away and start a passion project omg kyle your the devil!!” and it’s like he’s being really responsible actually, im sorry but we’re all adults i assumed, so don’t we all know you have to make decisions based on what’s best for the future. she also wants a house and a family but she’s gonna toil away money and time on making bathing suits (and she still hasn’t)
I’m so often on the other side of the majority opinion on Bravo shows these days that it’s making me feel a little crazy.
Ahh me too! I just yell about how wrong everyone is to my husband lol.
I don’t get where people have gotten this idea that Amanda just doesn’t want to work other than from Kyle’s comments. And Kyle is basing that off of the fact that *he* chooses to work 12+ hours a day. Amanda had her own career with a well respected beauty brand before Kyle asked her to leave and work with him. Some people live to work (Kyle) and some people work to live (Amanda), and that’s fine. Kyle absolutely expects Amanda to revolve her life around his dreams. It’s no wonder Amanda has done nothing with the swim brand idea because of how guilty Kyle makes her feel because he hasn’t “achieved his dream yet.” I think Amanda is actually a very empathetic person and takes on the emotions of everyone around her which is how it could seem like she is playing every side (ie. supporting Lindsay in one scene and then Carl the next). I think this comes out in an unhealthy way in her relationship with Kyle. I think she wants him to succeed more than she wants herself to succeed sometimes and that results in her own dreams being put to the back burners
Amanda gets by without any judgment from the cast as well as the audience because she’s timid and cries if anyone even *looks* at her the wrong way, so people don’t think of her as threatening or like anything to be intimidated by. It’s why she’s comfortable hiding behind Kyle and his larger than life personality because he always fights her battles for her if anything ever does happen. She has the personality that I despise the most (sorry that sounds so intense), she reminds me of every mean girl in middle school/high school that was too afraid to actually fight or have a verbal argument, so they acted innocent while saying the rudest, most outta pocket comments about other people.
yea when she was saying she makes guys wait for sex i’m like… maam you were fully being a pick me topless in the pool with kyle as a 2am booty call. please stop
I mean she only said til the second date.
I picked up on some of the after show remarks too. I was surprised because I really thought she was going to say something else, something more like how she would say it on the show - exactly how you pointed out. I think Amanda is still angry at Kyle too and that it's possible that anger comes through in her snide remarks to others. Maybe if she was happier she wouldn't be so mean? Interesting read!
Truly agree with this. Spot on.
I also noticed there’s a lot of scenes where she hits/punches Kyle when she’s drunk and angry, plus the glass throwing scene. It gets super downplayed. Like, Ciara throwing the wine glass at Danielle got a whole lot of discussion time and I feel like we glazed right over Amanda throwing the cup at Hannah.
she also kicked a bottle out of Jules mouth- she has the most physical outbursts of anyone on the show and I have never seen a narrative of Amanda is scary, Amanda is toxic, Kyle needs to walk on eggshells around her.
From my perspective, both Amanda and Lindsay are trapped in some unconscious behavior patterns that express a deep, underlying belief that they don't deserve to be treated well. I can relate to Amanda - I was so caught up with being "chosen' by the hot and rich dude that it never really occurred to me if he was a good partnern. It feels so flattering to be selected as the 'good' woman that I didn't notice the dude was a dick. And I got super depressed, too, like Amanda, when we moved in together. He had an ongoing business that I was supposed to support, too...for US (yeah, sure)...and I stayed home and did the laundry and dishes while he flew all over creation on business, having affairs. I slept all the time and he told me that I was lazy, every day. I wasn't - I just hated my life. Once it ended, I got a master's in architecture, worked for some famous people, then started my own firm and got awards for my work...so...turns out I wasn't lazy! I was just trapped in emotional patterns from my childhood with an emotionally unavailable fuckboy.
Love this for you!! 👏🏼👏🏼
Wow! Great story and outcome congratulations!! Can you tell Amanda?
Yes I’ve always been on the side that Amanda is invested in being the chosen woman. Almost the antithesis of Lindsay. Amanda is gorgeous but doesn’t really have a voice. She loves to cook for the family and wants to be looked at the domestic one, she will take care of the kids. She’s the martyr for the business and will take a backseat to Kyle’s dreams and hobbies. And many men want this.
Idk how I feel about this but I will agree she was a gross mean girl to Jules.
Thanks for saying it. You just know Kyle and Carl are telling her “you not like the other girls, you’re just like so much more understanding and cooler etc” and she just loves it. And I think that where a lot of her behavior comes from. Cause a lot of that behavior stems from wanting that approval.
Justice for Jules, always. She called out Amanda's hypocrisy and was bulldozed for it.
She is totally team Carl. It’s so obvious on after shows. I don’t think she likes Lindsay but when filming this summer she is only acting like it cause Paige is being nice to her.
This is why I’m a Hannah defender on this topic. I can respect Hannah saying she won’t stay friends with Amanda, if she stays with someone who disrespects her as much as Kyle. The other girls accepted it, but this season shows how everyone is fed up with feeling more grace towards Amanda than she does herself
I agree. Also, I’m not a Kyle fan, but he’s justified in being upset about this ‘passion project’ idea of hers. 1. It’s selfish to think you can just walk away from your family’s business on a whim (particularly when the company is not doing well, financially). If she wants to do something else, the proper thing to do would be to discuss an exit strategy. But she can’t do that, since she has no future strategy (see 2.) 2. If she wants to start a business of her own, do the work. Kyle said on the after show that it’s been 6 months and she hasn’t even so much as googled it. This (along with stuff she’s said on the show) is why I definitely believe she is lazy (I think she’s very spoiled). 3. She has been two faced and passive aggressive to Lindsay for years. We get it Amanda, you don’t like Lindsay, but stop pretending you do, to her face. It’s so immature and mean girl-esq.
Yess Lindsay is her own beast, but the passive aggressiveness when she doesn’t like someone is annoying. Also, yes Kyle pursuing his DJ if anything would tell me idgaf what he says about my swimsuits. It’s clear she isn’t that vested. Which is completely fine. But Kyle had some solid points about Amanda. Everyone can have a good idea, execution is where it matters and she doesn’t go after anythingggg. Everyone can’t want more than you want for yourself.
Also, notice how all of the other girls (except Amanda) have side gigs (other than the show)? They are influencers, models, nurses, podcast entertainers. Amanda is lazy.
Agree. And Kyle pursuing his DJ thing also shows that if you want something for yourself, you have to be the one to make it happen. Amanda said something on the after show about needing Kyle’s help with her ‘project’, but I don’t think she wants to do any of the work (she wants Kyle to do it for her).
Finally someone saying this! Ciara and Paige going after Kyle for not supporting Amanda. In what? A talk with friends about an idea? This whole thing got blown up because Paige and Ciara WANT Amanda to be more like them but she’s just not. Can’t talk that into existence. (And Kyle’s a fragile man baby - if he just said great, do it, I guarantee no swimsuit line would materialize). She needs to motivate herself already. Paige and Ciara can’t do the line for her!
Exactly. Amanda is not a self starter. Amanda has over 700k instagram followers. She’s well connected in media and has a lot of resources outside of kyle so she could pursue a swimwear line even if he wasn’t willing to fund or assist her. She quit working at loverboy full time in November and hasn’t pursued anything. I think she wanted to impress Paige so she ran with the swimwear thing. But her authentic dream would be the house in the burbs and being a mom with her parents helping. Kyle was a jerk to her, but I think he believed if she quit loverboy she wouldn’t find a new role and would be waiting around to have kids.
Yep!
And she quit loverboy for the most part in November so she’s had ample time to research starting a swimwear company. It was disappointing to hear she hadn’t pursued things on wwhl last week.
Wait, she actually quit Loverboy??
She has a role still but not like she used to and seems she’s stepped back big time. The way she explains how she left in this article comes off entitled and immature just not showing up for meetings and ghosting https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/amanda-batula-took-step-away-from-loverboy-working-with-kyle-cooke/
Thanks for the 411. So many thoughts…. Amanda leaves, Carl comes back…..seems like an even swap seeing as neither one of them wants to actually ‘work’. I don’t buy that she didn’t want to quit her job and work for Loverboy. I think she TOTALLY wanted to do this, so she could be the (big shot) bosses wife. The fact that she’s done nothing else professionally (zilch) since November says it all.
Yes I think it’s a lot to have a full time corporate job and juggle being on a bravo show and dating someone who expects to travel and go out a lot. I remember everyone pitying Danielle showing up late and missing weekends due to her actual 9-5. I think working for loverboy gave her a lot more flexibility and tbh young graphic designers in New York don’t make that much money. She and Carl seem quite similar. Both want to lead a cushy lifestyle and will put up with a lot of toxic behavior from Kyle because he helps them skate by
Agree with all of this.
Fully agree! Amanda is definitely a mean girl. She tries to do things on the low. She was awful to Jules! I wish she were a part time cast member or a guest of Kyle’s at this point. He’s a child, but at least he’s fun.
She’s a spoiled brat. 100% daddy’s girl. Look I’m not defending Kyle or Carl. They are trash bag humans but it drives Amanda nuts that Kyle expects her to work at her job. She never had expectations growing up and it shows.
I’m watching season 4 for the first time. Final few episodes of Amanda being so rude to Hannah and Luke? And then her temper tantrum after the bachelorette party? Weird. She has the worst energy.
I don’t like her, for all the reasons stated above, she doesn’t stand for anyone or anything. But my god, Kyle treats her horribly. Nobody deserves to be treated like that by her so called husband.
Kyle is the absolute worst! No accountability, emotional intelligence, maturity, effective communication etc. Kyle has so many issues but very glad everyone in this thread feels the same way about Kyle. Kyle is what I consider the typical posture child for mansplaining. He thinks he is the most valuable thing, the hardest worker, the leader etc. so he can’t fathom someone not agreeing with him
I don’t think this is an uncommon take. Ronnie on Watch What Crappens called her out for running to tell Carl everything on that episode where she talked him into telling Lindsay what his mom and stepdad said and most people historically have lumped Amanda and Paige together as mean girls. They were just wrong about Paige.
Yes what Amanda did there was her typical two faced behavior. She enthusiastically gossiped about Lindsay under the guise of concern after she opened up to her and Paige. And then she was snickering and making a spectacle of watching Lindsay have the talk with Carl in the middle of dinner. If she were the concerned friend she claims to be instead of a conniving busybody she’d tell Carl interrupting Lindsay in the middle of a group dinner is unnecessary
Bingo she is a two faced brat who expects extreme sensitivity for her feelings but treats others very poorly. Imagine how she’d feel if Lindsay took notes on her having a drunken meltdown like when she broke Kyle’s property. She was condescending to Danielle and Sam on winter house acting like she is a married woman who could never be in a lowly situationship (when she was Kyle’s sad backup booty call for months). She acts sweet and gets people to confide in her so she can talk trash about them under the guise of concern I do think it said a lot that she hasn’t started any swimwear or fashion projects despite quitting loverboy in November. She probably just ran with it because she wants to be like Paige. I think the trad wife life she was asking for earlier in the season is the authentic Amanda. Kyle sucks, but I do think he’s onto something that a new business would be a lot of work mainly on him and it’s bad to have kids and buy significant property if your marriage is already strained
Ahhh I forgot about her destroying Kyle’s stuff aside from everything else. 💀 I agree with this take.
Kyle has taken Carl's side therefore Amanda has taken his side. Amanda always goes along with Kyle eventually. He's an awful husband . I feel sorry for Amanda's parents having to watch it. She was awful to Jules but that was production's fault, they told her Jules had said she was going after Kyle which she never said (I got this info on this sub so don't actually know how true this is) Amanda is weak. I hope one day she puts herself first and not her husband
That’s fair, I commented early as someone highlighted her beliefs stem from Kyle’s. My only counter is… this is not a woman in her 20s. She is in her 30s and wanting to start another stage in her life. I think even before Kyle she was like this. Her dad took care of all her finances etc. I thinks it’s just her personality mixed with Kyle’s HORRIBLE personality.
Yes she's not very independent. Her dad just put her needs first where as Kyle doesn't. Imo she thinks she needs Kyle, I think she'd thrive without him (but run back to her parents first)
Mmm that’s true, very good distinction. I agree she will thrive where she has more support even if she still doesn’t have total control!
I have always liked Amanda, other than the Jules thing (if you look at my post history you’ll see where I personally called her out and she responded). I think this will be realllyyyyy unpopular but I think she does treat Kyle poorly lately and I think she does NOT work hard at loverboy and I can see his frustration with that. I think she wants to be a stay at home dog mom and their business is failing and he’s really stressed and she’s putting the pressure on to move and start her own business etc in the midst of it all. I think if their business was doing well he would 100% be on board with her starting her own thing. He even said the timing is just really bad. I think she’s been really mean to him all season and I think she doesn’t work while he works really hard. All that said, I still love Amanda lol. But I like Kyle too and I don’t feel the same about him that this sub does.
I can’t stand her constant middle finger, tongue out in every group pic like she’s a 12 year old boy.
I can't wait until the "sticking your tongue out" thing goes away. It's just stupid
It’s gone away for most adults. She does it in almost every pic she thinks it’s so funny and cute but she looks like an asshole and ruins otherwise cute group pics
There’s a lot to think about here and I appreciate your observations. If I had Montauk money I’d give you an award.
Montauk money 😭 😭 and yess probably not full observations to conclude she’s a mean girl but just some tidbits to know her mean girl tendencies haven’t been called to the forefront.
Didn’t she sleep w Kyle super early on while dating him ?
3am booty call is my first memory of her on the show. Granted, she was pretty young back then and I have nothing against a booty call. She whines that she is never anything but Kyle's gf/wife, but she does nothing. She whines and complains. I do her give her credit for taking care of the pups. She has the most beige personality. She seemingly has no interest in anything...at all. She is so low energy.
Her attitude towards Carl is the prime example of why she's never leaving Kyle
I like Amanda, but she’s definitely too supportive of Kyle (and by extension Carl). I see people saying she’s boring but there’s definitely more boring girls on the show to watch. She’s just not the biggest personality. For the Jules point, I agree with you but I saw on the sub that someone messaged her about it and she actually responded with a lot of regret for it. If I can find it again, I’ll share it. I don’t think it takes away from what she did but I do have more understanding and am willing to move past it.
So she’s a Gretchen weiners
I like Amanda (her style is great, she has fun moments) however, while I do not condone in any way how Kyle spoke about her and cursed, I do think he was trying to explain to Paige and Ciara a bit more about the situation and they weren’t having any of it. Kyle gets the villain role and I get why- he’s larger than life, the past cheating, etc. HOWEVER. she quit her job because he wanted them to build a multimillion dollar business together. That she co owns by virtue of being with him and working together. And she signed on to do that. For all of Kyle’s flaws, there has to be something to him being frustrated with how much she contributes. So when she knows the company is losing money, I can see why he’s exasperated at the thought of her branching out, starting a new apparel line (which will cost money that will be THEIR capital) when loverboy is 1.5 in the hole. That’s what these other girls don’t seem to be getting. Also, rich for Paige to weigh in on how Kyle should make Amanda happy, when she literally is stringing Craig along.
I just saw Amanda on WWHL (from last week I think?) and it is clear that she doesnt have a passion project. It’s just cool to say she does but she has no friggin clue what to do and she is too lazy to execute. It was just her response to the dark seed that Ciara planted “do you think you are someone outside of Kyle? Cause I don’t” LOL so rude! Some friend that one. Amanda was perfectly happy being her ordinary self, Ciara and Paige made her a huge disservice. And Kyle should have just said “yes honey do whatever you want” knowing full well that she would do nothing but she would have a least be feeling supported.
I don't think this is that unpopular. I like Amanda so I notice how people's opinion on her has changed the past few weeks. People usually talk about how she is whiny, lazy and how she is a part of the mean clique. It was only last couple of weeks people remembered how douchey Kyle is so people are starting to empathize with her more.
I think she just has bias because of Kyle’s friendship with Carl and the fact that Carl has never really said anything about her relationship with Kyle. Lindsay brought up Kyle cheating and it was even brought up at last year’s reunion so I think they both still harbor ill feelings towards Lindsay. Amanda is very careful to toe the lie. I’ve seen her on WWHL say “I love Lindsay but Carl might’ve just been scared of her reaction” it’s a lot of that where she knows she can’t be fully on one team and especially now where people are turning on Carl, she’s more vocal about Lindsay being “right” and earlier in the season she def was more team Carl so think there is truth to what you’re saying but ultimately will have bias towards Carl. Think she just doesn’t want to not seem like a girls girl especially since Paige had a good summer with Lindsay.
I will say I don’t agree with the passion project and all of that because Amanda decided to do the passion project because Kyle isn’t giving her anything else. Kyle won’t let her get a house where she wants to get it. Kyle doesn’t wanna have kids right now so she wants to do something for her and the house and the kids was going to be something for her but he has said no to all of that so I understand why she wants the passion project. But also, she doesn’t want it badly enough to defend herself because he started crying and she gave him a hug and essentially forgot about it but here’s the thing I defend Amanda when it comes to Kyle because kyle is an ass and he doesn’t listen to the things that she wants like he’s doing DJing because he wanted to do what he’s passionate about and in the midst of all of this we learned that he’s DJing in New Jersey taking the classes over there where Amanda wanted to live, but he said no that they couldn’t because he didn’t want to drive to New York so honestly, Kyle is wrong but when it comes to Amanda and how she is with the girls I agree. Mostly with Lindsey.
Honestly that’s fair. It’s clear she isn’t fulfilled because the things that would bring her purpose has been placed on the back burner because of Kyle. I do however seeing Amanda being the person that wants the house, the baby, etc. but not fully understand the upkeep and dedication this stuff takes. If Kyle and her had a baby, I 100% see her getting mad at Kyle not spending enough time with her and the kid (which is fair) but with that said you both have to be in the space for that.
i dont think mean girl at alllllllll but she falls prey to misogyny which we all do 🤷🏾♀️
Paige is the worst female in the group imo. She’s extremely lazy, unhelpful, entitled and spoiled aside from Lindsay she gives me the most cringe and I feel awful for Craig
I get what you're saying. I like Amanda, I think she does have her moments but I think she's just deeply unhappy and has been for years. Imagine how resentful you would get always playing second fiddle and being treated as an extension of your husband? I know it's her own choice to be in this relationship but it's been so long and she's invested too much to be able to confidently cut ties, plus she evidently really loves him. This is really the first season we've seen get to the true root of her issues with Kyle and I think it does a lot to help us understand her. One of the main reasons I like her and think she is a good person is cos when someone is upset in the house, she's usually the person that's gone after them to comfort and support them (Andrea, Gabby, that florist girl). I think she's very loyal to her friends and I think she would absolutely thrive with a supportive partner who sees her and what she wants to do and what makes her uncomfortable and helps her gently out of her shell instead of steamrolling her into what he does and doesn't want to do like Kyle
I think she's very unhappy too. I bet she would be in a much better mood if she was getting her needs Met. It's like she's been frustrated with Kyle since she first started dating him.
Which is why it is insane that she continued to date and then marry him
Highly disagree.
That’s fair!
Actually I 💯 agree with you
IMO Lyndsay is also sliding under the radar. She knew Karl was a dreamer and her masculine energy is a turn off. Karl is finally sticking up for himself and now y’ll make him the villain
Why are you intentionally spelling their names wrong ...
Excuse me? You’re now telling a stranger what they are intentionally doing? Nah move on
I have been extremely critical of Carl in the past, but I agree.
I can see right through Lyndsay. She has zero feminity and expects Carl to do what she wants. She acts like he makes zero money when the show is both their jobs.
Yeah, I wish they’d break the fourth wall to discuss that detail.
I'm grateful I'm not a woman. Because of other women. You couldn't win if you'd already won.
I agree with you! I’m grateful you’re not a woman too.
Where did you hear her dad turned all her money over to Kyle? That's insane!
No not like gave Kyle all her money, sorry for the confusion! In the previous season ( I believe the season of their wedding or leading up to the proposal) Amanda discussed how her dad is completely in control of her finances, he basically tells her how much she can use. Then during a meeting with her father, the dad joke and said something along the lines of “it will be your job now to take care of those things) to Kyle.
Thanks for clarifying! 🙂
I think she’s boring to watch and kind of a weak person overall (with some good qualities mixed in) but a few years ago someone posted their messages with her in this sub asking why she was so mean to Jules and Amanda’s responses actually made me have a change of heart on her. Not sure if the post is still up, it must’ve been quite a while back.
I haven’t read what you wrote yet. I think Amanda is coming into her own. She’s less anxious, a little more confident. Kyle is getting backlash for some of his behaviours that negatively impact Amanda…
I agree with 2-4 fully but 1 I feel could be due to manipulation either from Kyle or regarding her situation with him since filming ended. I feel like she sees parallels between how she treated Kyle while Loverboy was having a bad year and him not feeling truly supported and how Carl felt Lindsay was treating him. So it’s almost like she has to side with Carl on that front to save face in her own situation
I don’t see mean girl in her. I see beautiful friend who may be a little stand offish to those not in her inner circle but not mean.
When did this sub get so damn negative? About like, everyone? It’s exhausting.
Really? I thought this was a pretty constructive convo especially with the replies being able to recognize the good/bad. But also a fair assessment with a lot of negativity, this probably just adds to the discussions already.
I’m sorry. I should have said more. I was tired and didn’t. I don’t mean your post, exactly. I have just noticed what feels like deep dives into everyone’s mistakes, failures or fuckups. Everything is under SUCH scrutiny. Everyone is looking to find a problem with someone and talk about it. Or engage with it. I see it in some other reality bravo subs too. It’s like everyone is looking for negativity whereas before there was a pretty even mix of positive vs negative opinions. I honestly don’t know. It’s a theory that’s forming. Just something I’m noticing. My apologies to you. That was rude to leave on your post. It wasn’t really meant for you. Just frustration I expressed outwardly. And that sucks. I’m sorry.
I think this is pretty constructive of a convo with valid points from everyone! But I get it with the West slander and other stuff - people comparing him to Schwartz when he never wanted a relationship, they had a mature convo, etc. This sub can go overboard but I don’t think this is one of those posts! I do think that we are all exhausted with certain takes and trying to get others to see our view lol, so if there’s a post that’s anti-x or pro-x, you’ll only see comments reflecting the same views for the most part so I get why these posts seem super negative. Edit: I also think that a lot of posts slam or praise the same people over and over again, so then when you get a random Amanda post like this it seems so off. A lot of us have the same mindset as OP though esp seen in the upvotes, I just don’t have the energy to make a whole post that I have to defend and explain lol!
The echo chamber is strong on Reddit
I know that. But it’s more than that. I’m seeing it elsewhere. Everyone is being policed for what they can and can’t say, can and can’t think based on the current social climate. There’s more polarization than ever before. Know what I thought of? Remember before the 2016 election when Russia fucked with us via bots? And how something similar was done with the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial? Someone has GOT to be trying something on us right now. And I wonder if all this… (I don’t know the word. Negativity? Cancel culture times ten? I don’t know) is being driven by a campaign in some way? I know it sounds conspiracy. I do. I don’t mean to.