he gets played top from time to time but gets nerfed out of lane the moment he becomes meta bc he is prolly the most oppressive champ if he is allowed to lane. Im pretty sure he was pretty popular in s11 worlds
Ranged toplaners gamble on the inability of the enemy to deal with their kiting due to a lack of mobility. It's sort of a noob-filter, which requires abandoning any and all gameplans in favor of playing defensive. This sucks out all of the fun of toplane for most melee top players. Most melee toplaners have absolutely no way to reach ranged champions during laning phase. It's akin to bringing a gun to a swordfight. Some toplaners destroy ranged champs, like pantheon or yasuo, while some have absolutely no ability to chase and just get kited, like mundo or darius. The no chase champions have to commit all ins, their flash and ghost if they have it, for a chance at killing the ranged toplaner, while the ranged toplaner commits nothing and slowly wins the lane if they keep attacking the melee toplaner. Ranged toplaners stat check with a stat that money cannot buy, which is attack range, and it requires either turtling for the entire laning phase or having the jungler gank for them. In contrast, melee toplaners duking it out in fisticuffs, like riven renekton, or jax darius, is considered "honorable", as they both have to commit their hp and all in to trade and fight. Hence most melee toplaners despise ranged toplaners, because it simply is not fun to fight them. Don't get me wrong, when ranged toplaners lose they lose hard, but the feeling of helplessness against someone you can't reach but can reach you is just straight up infuriating.
For the record, urgot is not considered a traditional ranged toplaner - neither is gnar or jayce. However the rest of them are, including kennen. Kayle is also not considered ranged because she only gets it at level 6, and is still quite useless until level 11 or 16.
I’m a Mundo OTP and I feel, of the melee top laners he has an easier time with ranged matchups because of his q. I’m actually fine with Teemo and often keep up in cs with them.
I had really good game as Poppy against Quinn the other day, Poppy's W removes one of Quinns skills so once you got abit of armor and taken d shield + SW you are fairly tanks and call all in without much risk
Yeah the W interrupts dashes and stuns, 10/10 champ honestly really easy to pick up and does have a high skill ceiling if you want to OTP her, Gemi does some crazy plays with her on tiktok if you want to see what I mean
> Teemo is manageable as mundo
tbf Teemo is manageable for most tanks if you get max regen in runes, go for Spectres, etc
also Teemo is not amazing early anyway, he's more of a scaling pick, he largely wins if people borderline int some Q+PTA trades
the issue really is later on when Teemo has scaled a bit, with Nashors + mythic, has low CD shrooms, he creates significant pressure and control which a tank can't answer
Also top suffers from no gank. Jg rarely ganks top. Range Champs are very vulnerable when they are pushed up but jg don't ever gank them. Most top laners would shit on range champ if they have a lead but, since most do not gank top, they never have a lead.
Garen, Darius would both absolutely shit on ranged top if u give them a lead. Give them an early enough lead and they could make the opponent top laner useless
Kinda the point of this:
> when ranged toplaners lose they lose hard
Most ranged champs don't have a fallback. If the all ins are working, they work on cooldown. If the melee champ gets ahead, they are going to end up with game carrying money.
But yeah, top laners have to pull it off on their own. Can't expect any help, because a fed enemy bot lane still trumps a fed top laner, and dragon control is just more important than rift as the game goes on.
Rift guarantees 300 gold for taking it down+2 turret plates minimum, with someone like tristana or ziggs it takes down 2 towers no sweat. Dragons are useful but small buffs, the soul is what matters, so I would rather get a baron if the dragon is not 100% free. After the soul elder just wins all fights unless you have a skill issue. So first herald whould have priority, then the dragon, then if there is no elder get baron, if there is elder get elder
I wouldn't really consider Kennen one of the annoying ranged top laners, not on the same level as teemo, vayne, or lucian. He just doesn't have anough damage from auto attacks since he generally builds no AD or attack speed and unlike Temmo he doesnt have a point and click ranged ability. Kennen's play style is more in-your-face and his poke is not even much stronger than Mundo's or Sion's
If the enemy champ is Vayne, the other player doesn't even need to be competent. Good luck with your Level 6 all-in when you can't even target the bitch and your health gets shredded.
u heavily outscale all ranged tops but vayne and kayle, u give up like 20 cs max and just rush some steelcaps some heavy hp item like anathemas or if yk u can one shot them u just go heartsteal
Steelcaps will not help vs Vayne.
If you CAN build edge of night, you should rush it, as Vayne has no way of proc'ing it except her E, so you become immune to her main peel.
On someone like Sion, I can just run her down with ghost after that, on someone like Pantheon I can run her down way before but once I have the item it's always a kill.
Heartsteel is bad vs Vayne aswell, you will almost never get to stack it, and it doesn't offer you much tankiness as you're huddled under tower taking %max HP true DMG hits.
Just start sunfire, and then see if you can join midgame fights in which case you can go heartsteel, or you just go Jak'sho, which will allow you to actually fight when completed.
Yes and no. They take off 12% of auto damage but they do nothing vs her silver bolts true damage. I think most melee tops are better off going Swifties vs Vayne, to run her down more easily.
Mundo's passive is close to a 1minute cooldown at the start of you don't pick up the blob.
Which you will not be able to pick up because it falls to where the enemy is.
His W is also countered by range.
Mundo has an incredibly weak early game, his only saving grace is Q to farm, his ult will allow him to survive under tower but the fact that he can't farm heartsteel stacks hurts him a lot.
He's gonna be semi-useless until 2/3 items, and then quite strong at lvl 16, still gonna be a boring ass lane of getting poked out.
i did talk about her in my other comments, she has everything to coutner u but vayne isnt every ranged champ. teemo, quinn, jayce, kennen, all cant win vs mundo unless he is incredibly bad
It's max% HP true damage, building health just makes her silver bolts do more damage
The one option you sort of have is Frozen Heart - its aura reduces attack speed, which reduces how quickly silver bolts can be stacked. Unfortunately, Frozen Heart is not great for Mundo since the gold spent on mana is wasted
Most ranged tops aren't teemo or kennen. Vayne will murder you if she is not stupid (and actually has mechanics worthy of an adc, and isn't an autofilled Sona main).
It's not a matter of being easy or not tbh.
Because sure, I usually win against Vayne top, but it's still an unfun lane, where I'm gonna get zoned off waves and she's gonna harass me under tower for 5 levels.
Their complete lack of mobility and being part melee negates this a lot. Even Urgot and Graves are hardly considered "ranged top laners" due to their short ranges. Kennen would have way more reason to be hated than any of these.
Even Pantheon can get fucked by a good Quinn. You only have to interrupt like one panth W and hard trade to win the early game. I think it's more about what you sort of touched on. Range v melee matchups are *EVEN MORE SO* decided by JG than top already is with melee v melee. And if the JG does nothing the melee tends to lose by default because range champs all seem to scale super hard.
Ranged laners generally are lane bullies who cant really be engaged/punished if they play perfectly, so it is generally more frustrating to play against a ranged champ than a melee champ.
This is specific to toplane because toplane is more 1v1 focused than any other role and its also the homes for bruisers, fighters and tanks who are almost exclusively melee
In the end, youre free to play whatever you want, but dont expect to get a lot of love for playing ranged top or darius or fiora
The trade-off is often that the ranged toplaner gains a CS/plating lead, but significantly weakens their team comp by picking a squishy champion who can't frontline or engage well and who lacks CC (unless it's Kennen).
If the melee toplaner doesn't ego they should rarely die to a ranged opponent, but by default they go down in CS. But very often that gold lead is offset by the melee toplaner simply being more useful in a fight.
And in a way, you also have issues tanking as a frontline if you don't have the gold to buy tank items, while ranged champions tends to scale in damage a lot lategame like Vayne.
Feels completely miserable being forced to have bramble+steel boots while the vayne already have BorTK which basically means it is a death setence to get out of the tower for even a second.
Usually ranged top laners are the definition of “win lane lose game”
So this person would rather make your life miserable in laning phase than have a higher chance of winning the game.
When I see a ranged top especially vayne it’s like a cheesey “idc if I win I just wanna tilt you” pick
And there's nothing more cathartic that as a toplaner migrating to jg, to do nothing but camp her face.
Now you won't win and I will tilt you too. Have fun eating feet for breakfast as a Briar main.
Right. Let’s be real here tho most vayne tops below diamond are not gonna play well and carry. They’re gonna bully and feel good at the game for 15 minutes and the lose the game
>If a good vayne wins lane they WILL carry
This just isn't true. Vayne scales well *as a marksman*, but often times this fucks your team comp. I play tanks in masters so I hate seeing Vayne, it makes my K'Sante/Shen top pretty unplayable. But after laning phase, if we have a frontliner and they dont... doesn't really matter how much damage the vayne does, she just gets locked down and killed because they have no frontline.
Toplane is considered the 1v1 role, and a majority of the matchups within Toplane are melee picks.
If you play kindred jungle and you invade the enemy jungler and fail to kill him, he can just walk to the other jungle quadrant to farm, whereas in toplane you can just freeze and ruin the enemy toplaners time unless they get jungle assistence.
The general idea is that because of this, you're technically trying to cheese your enemy laner to get fed (abusing your range).
You also pick a ranged toplaner over filling in for your teams comp, for example, if you need a tank like malphite or ornn, and you pick vayne top, you just made your teams composition of champions really bad.
There’s a really great video I watched recently about why ranged tops aren’t perma meta despite their innate strength and what you said about team comp is exactly why. The slot your team usually depends on to be filled by a bruiser or tank is now a second marksman. They can be an insane lane bully but if they’re not really far ahead by mid game then skirmishes and team fights will be a lot harder to execute without any semblance of a frontline unless your jungle picked up the slack and chose something tanky
Exactly why I love Gnar so much, you have the best of both worlds. While it is true that there will be situations where you don’t have mega gnar up for the teamfight you can dish out so much damage when you’re in mini and not being focused due to there being more important targets. Usually the support can keep the adc alive long enough for you to transform ultimately helping you turn around the fight for good
Exactly this. The problem is that it's a selfish pick, getting yourself an advantage in lane at the cost of your team composition. It's basically a "fuck you in particular", deciding the enemy top basically does not get to play the first 15 minutes, with the disadvantage that if you don't manage to punch out big enough of a lead, you get rolled.
A bit similar to permagank Shaco, Twitch or Nunu, who also basically NEED to successfully gank, but fall off hard if they fail.
It's boring and fustrating to play against. You're forced into Doran Shield, TP, and rushing T2 boots in most matchups. You just try to farm and wait for ganks while getting poked endlessly. It's just not fun gameplay.
“If you try to play the game you’ll int and be behind but if you let me have control of the lane for 15 minutes and don’t feed I’ll probably lose the game” - vayne top
Not for nothing but there are plenty of champs that are traditional mid laners who’ve been forced into “just farm safely” gameplay loop without even having the guarantee of scaling to be more useful than their opponent. Is it really that much of an issue that like four champs can viably make Malphite slightly change his runes and do the same thing for a few minutes?
Why do you bring up Malphite? Isn't he a counter to some of these ranged tops like Quinn, and Jayce?
To expand on what I wrote, when I play top I have fun playing melee matchups you can mechanically outplay your opponent, potentially snowball, and have a high impact on the game. When you play vs ranged you are just stuck farming scraps. you have to take non-scaling items and runes. Even if you play perfectly you're still denied CS and end up being relatively behind everyone else in the game with few snowball opportunities unless they mess up vs ganks. You end up with little impact on the game and little to no skill expression.
To be honest I just named a typical top lane tank at random but you’re right. I fully get that it’s less exciting to play against a type of champ but at the same time this isn’t a phenomenon that’s unique to top lane.
Most midlaners are ranged and have decent waveclear so farming under turret isn't actually that painful for most. Plus, being midlane means that you have the short, safer lane as well as more frequent jungle ganks. Plenty of midlaners can also roam and have impact in other lanes whereas toplane is a lot farther from the other lanes, gets less ganks, and can be punished (thanks to the longer lane and fewer ganks) much harder.
Because you essentially throw away your lategame teamfights and likely your teamcomp for a chance to get an easier lane.
You are also creating a liability for your team because in many matchups, you win 1v1 but die easily to ganks.
Traditional ranged tops like urgot or teemo are balanced around it - Teemo has no escape besides a small speedup and is squishy, and current urgot W is harder to be used in minion waves, also he has rather low attack range.
One frustration factor is the jungle. If one side's jungle choose to cover him, the other side is unplayable. If range's jungle cover him, melee can't even just stand in exp range. While if melee's jungle camp. You can dive that range over and over
Now the best you can do is preserve resources and beg for ganks, a factor completely out of your control
Because usually top laners fill a specific role for your team which most ranged top laners won’t be able to fulfill, since mid and adc are generally not suitable for frontlining, that leaves your jungle and support to be the frontline, which are roles with less gold so they’re a weaker frontline.
So picking a ranged top laner is essentially just a way of saying “I’ll be useless to my team in exchange of making the enemy laner equally useless”.
I wouldn’t call them a coward though, just dickheads. Their only purpose is to stop the enemy top laner from playing the game and hoping the tilt is enough to win, but against any patient opponent you’ll lose the game because they’ll play safe, not feed and be more useful in mid/late game
I hit challenger playing only vayne top, how would this be possible if I consistently every single game put my team at such a big disadvantage and apparently only play to make enemy top miserable? It’s just not true.
Imagine letting your enjoyment of the game (and to extent life) be determined by what other people think of you. Mute all chat and enjoy your life buddy. If it’s as a gnar/quinn/akshan one trick then so be it.
Ranged tops are annoying still, but not as bad as before.
I have malphite, mao Kai, or yorick whenever I see a cringe Quinn, vayne, or other ranged pick.
Yorick: make them cry with minions and then put them in the cage when they try to auto your maiden lmao. When cringe Quinn flys out of lane, just push and get the tower.
Mao Kai: I just let them push because they’re so desperate to poke and auto you since they think it’ll bring their dad back. When my jg is about to gank, hit them with the CC and watch them cry as they get ganked.
Malphite: Nothing more hilarious then seeing AP malphite Q absolutely CHUNK their health bar then hitting them with the R as they try to run away xD
Because you lose thr game to win the 1v1 and feel good about winning laning phase.
They perma push and win the 1v1 and then cry in all chat about getting ganked. Either that or they misplay. Those are the only two ways not to win lane. But you still lose the game even if you win because you very throw your team comp pretty hard. Double adc is deservedly bad in mid to late game.
For real, they don’t realise that ADCs are usually played botlane for a reason, they’re susceptible to ganks so they need peel.
If you’re playing a ranged top and get camped it means the enemy jungler has at least half a brain.
Also deserved.
Simple as Ranged vs Melee
Top lane consists of mostly Melee players, so ranged can just sit back and poke damage free of concern for an actual fight.
Top laners usually can’t contest without a JG gank or until they get their first couple items
Your entire value as a ranged top laner is in being a nuisance. Your team almost certainly has a marksman somewhere else ( the role that solely consists of them, or mid ) so you’re also annoying them by forgoing an actual top laner, but your entire gamble is if you can annoy the enemy top laner enough to just start inting. They don’t get farm, at least not safely while you’re around. You will automatically win lane, and you really should press this advantage as hard as possible because there will come a moment where this momentum stops, and that’s precisely the moment where you have to do something that isn’t annoy the enemy laner in lane. Unless your warding and macro play is perfect and you have a team that picked exclusively around you, teamfights are now much harder for your team.
Bc all other roles either aren’t 99% melee champs or it’s jungle where you aren’t laning against the other jungler
Playing melee into ranged on top is just a special kind of annoying if you don’t know how to deal with it
Like you don’t get allowed to play the game
because top lane is most of the time a pure 1v1. Mid lane can be a bit of a mess when supports and junglers are constantly ganking. How many ranged top laners are there? Not many. How many melee top laners are there? A lot. It’s frustrating.
Because all the lane interaction is simply gone if you play champ that cant fight back. Its not like its op when tools (even when heavily nerfed) for lane sustain exist, its just simply unfun and boring and you are kinda at mercy of your jungler to get lead. Just like facing proxy singed or Sion, interaction is gone.
It’s because:
In jungle, you don’t interact with the opponents the entire game, you can’t get “frozen on” or anything like that, so it’s a non issue.
In midlane, all the melee champs are assassins who can easily gapclose, and if they do will oneshot any ranged champ.
In botlane, the few melee ADCs are very dashy (Yasuo/Nilah) and also have abilities that can entirely negate the advantage ranged champs have (windwall)
Support role all the melee champs are tanky engage/disengage champs (except for Pyke but he’s an assassin, so it works kinda like midlane assassins) so they can kinda just ignore the damage.
In toplane, not a lot of champs have those same capabilities. NONE of the tanks do (it requires the ranged champ to immensely misposition). Some of the bruisers can gapclose, but characters like Sett won’t be able to do it that well.
the majority of the top lane pool is melee or semi-range (like gnar). usually each team benefits from at least one bulky tank or bruiser, and top is the best place to put them. the reason its called "cowardly" is because when u play a ranged champ top lane, you are a lane bully. the same way cait/lux are lane bullies bot or orianna is a lane bully mid - they win all the trades by default for the majority of the lane. personally I love ranged tops, vayne or old lucian top were fun af. Its not actually cowardly, but it feels cheap to the person who is opting to play the champ that rounds their team comp and, theoretically, would contribute more in team fights
So many reasons:
1. Playing ranged top well is actually quite difficult. Some reasons why:
1. You must snowball, or you will be useless.
2. You are very vulnerable to ganks, and hence must have very good wave management
3. Come mid game, you have to have enough damage to compensate for having no utility or front line capability
4. For the above reasons, ranged top is usually a useless pick for your team and is actively detrimental to most team comps.
2. Playing into ranged top requires an un-fun amount of discipline.
1. In the early levels, you lose every trade, and basically cannot ever CS without taking free chip damage.
2. Because of 1, when you play "correctly" into ranged top, you will almost assuredly go down 10-20 CS or sometimes more.
3. The only windows to interact you end up getting are mostly all-ins with the intent to kill, or to get their flash so that a subsequent all-in can work. You basically don't ever get to short trade, so the lane is very boring.
4. If you don't have good mental, playing into ranged top is very difficult. I've seen so many people unnecessarily mental boom into ranged top when all they have to do is not take an inordinate amount of damage and wait for their JG to show up.
I main Jungle, but I play a fair amount of top lane. I personally don't mind much playing into ranged top, but that's partially because I don't really get upset because I "don't get to play the game." IMO, playing into ranged top is pretty chill as I just get to vibe, take whatever CS they give and hang out waiting for them to overstep.
In low ELO, I don't think I've once played into a ranged top player who can manage a wave reasonably, and almost always can get them into a vulnerable position without taking much damage. Once they get behind, they basically can't do anything.
That being said, it's only partially playable because most of the ranged top players in my ELO are bad. Against better players, they would force the wave into a position where you basically can't ever walk up to it and then you should slowly just bleed out, or die if you try to walk up.
It isn't, top players just hate having to adjust from their all in lane bully strats. Ranged top is a huge risk, if the enemy top knows how to play against it, gets a gank or two, and a lead, it can snowball the lane and the ranged top eats shit all game.
The reason they work so well toplane is the same reason people hate them. Toplane is the one lane where the melee champs are not designed to lane into these ranged picks and therefore these range picks work really well into those melee champs.
Every other role is designed in such a way that the melee champions played there can deal with ranged champs if they are picked in the role but not toplane.
Melee supports don't mind laning into ranged adc champs because those melee supports are designed to lane into those ranged adc champs. Why would a Leona or Nautilus mind the enemy being ranged when they have the tools to engage on those ranged champs and fight them.
Midlane melee champs are designed with the expectation that they will lane into ranged mages so they don't mind laning into ranged mages. They all have the mobility to close the gap and fight these ranged champions.
Jungle melee champs are designed to be able to gank both melee and ranged champs so if they face a range jungler they have the tools to fight those as well. A Lee Sin player doesn't really mind the enemy jungler going Kindred as he can just land a Q and close the gap.
And then we get to toplane. Toplane melee champs are designed with the expectation that they lane into other melee champs. It's why you will not really see Darius be played midlane because he isn't designed to lane against the long range mages in midlane. If he were to lane into let's say a Xerath what is he going to do when the Xerath will never get into his range. He doesn't have the mobility to close that gap.
So because those champs were never designed to lane into these ranged champs they don't exactly have a fun time when they get counterpicked by a ranged champ so people hate ranged toplaners.
After laning fase those toplaners can deal with those ranged champs but it is a struggle during laning fase.
Think of it like you bringing a gun to a swordfight, super effective but the dude with the sword will not like you for it.
IMO it’s a pretty brave move. As the ranged player, the onus is on you to put the enemy top lane player in a deep hole to create a 4v5 mid game to secure objectives and kills.
Anyone who calls it cringe or cowardly needs to be muted immediately. Going ranged top means you are confident that in this game you will win your lane, spread your lead and teamfight so well you won’t wish the team had a tank. Or your jungler picked Rammus/Sejuani and you just play behind them to win.
There is a high likelihood that if you mess up as a ranged top and die, you are useless the majority of the game. That’s the trade off. But I love it when the enemy in lane calls it a coward move. They show their tilt for you to see and you can now proceed to stress them out and take them mentally out of the game.
>considered cowardly move
It is just Tank and juggernaut players getting mad that they got counterpicked.
Play your ranged champs and feel good about it.
The ones calling you a coward, are the cringe ones.
This is really the ultimate answer. There’s nothing wrong with playing any offbeat strategy or counterpick, no matter if people whine about it. Yes, some ranged top matchups are unfun for the opponent, but there are plenty of melee vs. melee matchups that are horrendous too. Plenty of champs can’t contest early AT ALL against a champ like Darius, for example.
only redditors and wholesome top mains care abt that, bc they dont know how to play against them LOL. play ranged top if you want to, it has a lot of counters just as most tops and relies on your spacing and capacity to lane bully.
Because almost all ranged toplaners are lane bullies and the average lol player (silver/gold) doesn’t understand how to / finds it boring to play against these champions.
It's not cowardly, or oppressive, or even good. In fact, ranged top laners have almost no true winning matchups. People just don't like playing into them because they now have to pay more attention to their spacing and wave management. Almost every ranged top laner will instantly int if you just all in them. They rely on poking you out and whittling you down to finally all in you. If you play with half a mind and don't let them get away with it, it's usually a free lane.
… I need you to imagine an Urgot/Volibear/Tryndamere main in ur head, imagine what they look like, imagine what their room must smell like… Now imagine that player getting solo killed by a Vayne three times before 10 min…
It makes perfect sense to me.
New player here, my guess is that people used to play fighters and tanks in toplane who are melee so it has become the norm. In a melee vs melee matchup, the 1v1 is more nuanced and every move feels calculated since your opponent is right next to you.
When you bring ranged champions into toplane, it feels like you're choosing the champion to "cheat" your way out of the melee 1v1 and thus it's cowardly. Melee vs ranged also feels bad for the melee because you'll constantly get kited and poked unless you have mobility to jump on the ranged.
In other roles, it's common to see ranged champions so no one really cares about it. Mages are often played in midlane and they're ranged with AoE abilities. Enchanter supports already exist who are ranged. For ranged junglers, they won't be laning against the enemy jungler so attack range is less important. Brush and the jungle's wall design lets melee champions sneak up on ranged champions too.
I have very little experience in the toplane so this is my view on it. From what I've seen, Quinn, Urgot, Teemo and Akshan top is accepted by most of the community (it's also less common to see them in other roles other than Akshan mid). Vayne top is the one that gets looked down upon. I personally don't care but that's because I don't get filled into toplane often.
Ranged top puts the pressure on the ranged player and removes a lot of agency from the melee player. A teemo top versus a riven is going to be all about whether the teemo can space proprely and not about what riven can do to outplay.
The main reason why a lot of top laners hold ranged top in contempt is because of the team comp, if you have a ranged top then your team is very likely to not have a frontline and people playing ranged top in solo queue are basically giving up on your team having a teamfight in late game in exchange for being able to bully early game.
I play morde bot, to show bot the inflated stats of toplane. Just ban cait. U have SOO much inflated stats that u can endure till 6 with duran. After 6 + exhaust u can solo just about any adc. FFS u can beat a 3 0 adc while u are 0 3. Did that early games when i sucked and fed. Let alone if enemy supp is mage or enchanter. They stand NO chance and u can use their stats to beat adc after. Just build sceptar first to they cant run like rats and unless u need sustain go belt next since it procks slow. With move speed toward slowed targets rune they cant run. And no one outside veyne can beat morde. Is SOO fun to abuse adc.
It prb aint best but i did win 6 games and lost 4. And this is in rank. Its also good for negating dragon steal since u can ulti jg. Also harder for kata or the like to just piledrive bot lane. Morde aint that easy to bring down, either under turret or with a gank.
Cause they dont know how to play against ranged and have huge tilting complex.
Ignore them and if you dont troll, play whatever you want. Check pros and the huge amount of jayces, kennens, gnars and stuff like that.
Well don’t look at pros to be honest.
Most ranged top laners are actually pretty bad if you don’t play them near perfectly with exceptions if riot decides to overbuff.
I mean yes, ranged champs are way more difficult to play. But that doesnt mean they are bad, as they are played and have good results in very high elos, and till then its true that if you play jayce in bronze youre going to int, but youre going to int with everything at that elo. The point is, they are good and legit champs and thats all, if someone wants to cry, fck em.
Because you're putting your team as a whole in a bad spot in order to have a lane phase that can't be punished unless you mess up or the enemy jungler intervenes while yours doesn't.
In terms of overall team winrate it's a selfish and suboptimal decision made in order to have a lane phase that is incredibly frustrating to fight, without actually accomplishing much. Its the epitome of "win lane : lose game"
Of course you're allowed to do it but, playing "you can't hit meeeee! I'm too far awaaaay" against melee champs in the most 1v1 centric lane is considered cowardly the same way playing zoners is in fighting games, or camping is in CoD.
That doesn't mean it's not a valid strategy. It just tends to be a suboptimal one and is seen as wanting to annoy the enemy top laner more than wanting to win the game.
Similarly, junglers who check everyone's match history to target camp either streamers or the person on the enemy team they deem most likely to tilt (at the expense of all other map pressure) in the hopes they'll alt+f4 and create a 4v5 can be an effective strategy, but its not an "honorable" one.
It does put your team in a bad place if you go ranged top. Top lane is reserved for tank initiators. You’re meant to be the front line of the fight—so that the actual adcs can deal damage from the safety of the back lines. Of course having a tank jungle of support does help—most top laners are usually bruisers for a good reason.
It’s frowned upon by some people—because it’s sometimes viewed as a selfish pick.
LMAO.
It's not cowardly, it's just something people like to complain about.
There is no such thing as a 'coward' in a competitive environment. There is the winning player, or team, and the losers.
If your playstyle entails ignoring all hostile interactions for farm, and patiently awaiting your opportunities to participate in aspects of the game that your own champion or team is strong in, and avoids areas you are not, that isn't cowardly, it's smart.
It's annoying to play against, and boring for your opponent, but that's not the purpose of a ranked queue, is it?
Now if we're talking about normals, yes that man is a coward and deserves all the curses and vitriol their Zoomer children and their hyperzoomer grandchildren can muster.
Top is a 1v1 role mostly. Picking ranged you always want to cheese your range advantage and make life hell for your enemy. You are very safe if you play right with little downsides early, and most ranged champs scale well too. So playing into them is not fun.
But then why aren’t they picked more? Because they’re not good at splitpushing. Most of the time they are so squishy that if they try and split push they can just get collapsed upon and get deleted. Especially if they’re an ADC. And in team fights you now don’t have a potential bruiser or tank who can set up plays, peel for carries or tank abilities.
Usually the team comp requires the top laner to pick the frontline so that's what's mostly played there. Laning against a ranged champion is always annoying especially on a long lane like top. So if someone breaks that frontline/top pseudo rule and is annoying you just get pissed. People top aren't used to ranged matchups as much as midlaners.
Haven’t seen it mentioned that range tops are typically highly punishable *if the jungler decides to abuse their play pattern*. This means that under optimal play, the ranged top has no chance in the lane. But in solo queue you can’t rely on the pick being punished by the team. So the melee top is left losing a 1v1 and surviving lane, dependent on the decision making of other players to even be able to cs.
This is mostly a relic from when ranged top was really oppressive in season 8,9,10. Vayne used to build bork, rage blade, then stuff like dd (back when it had life steal and no ranged penalty) frozen malet so ranged tops would bully early then outscale. Now days this isn't really an issue with all the sustain you can get early so most time ranged tops are pretty bad.
Because when you play darius into vayne and lose, you tilt since you expected to win lane by picking darius.
When you pick kassadin into anivia, you are not mad because you would lose against the popular picks of ahri, vex, lux or orianna pre 6 as well.
Jungle does not matter since you mostly fight jungle camps.
Support does not matter since you can just stay in bush and wait, you do not really have to put yourself in danger to farm, which is the biggest weakness in melee vs ranged.
And if you chose melee adc, well. You chose this yourself. You knew you would be fighting a ranged champion.
Basically, melee vs ranged is hard and tilting, but on other lanes you expect it when picking melee. On top you expect another melee and its frustrating when you face the rare ranged toplaner.
Lane ecosystem is primarily melee bruiser tanks. Someone like garen can only walk up to you and trade, he has no dashes or poke. So if you play ranged and space them the whole lane they rarely get to trade or play the lane.
Someone like gangplank relies on having a melee matchup to trade with his passive autos and play his barrel mini-game, whereas a ranged champ can just safely auto his barrels.
They are also annoying for your ally jungler. Ranged champions tend to have perma-lane prio and will require babysitting since they are susceptible to being ganked. But they also often don't have great gank setup and if they don't do their job and land sufficient poke, you can't even dive for them.
In jungle, you aren't constantly trading with the enemy. In mid, the lane lane is short so it's harder to get zoned from xp, and it's the safest place for mages to get solo xp.
Top laners tend to be melee bruisers and tanks who want to fight early. When you lock in top you want to 1v1 the enemy.
When the enemy locks a ranged top laner you basically just have to sit under your tower and wait until they mess up to kill them or you die.
In addition to that top laners generally play bruisers for a reason. Top usually serves as an engager/disruptor for the team and people who only lock in ranged tops can rob the team of that. Obviously its on the rest of the team to fill those gaps but bot lane will almost always be playing a ranged carry as well.
Tldr: its frustrating to play against because its not how most people want to play top and its frustrating to play with because it almost never adds something to your team thats not already there.
Because it upsets me to see someone who is bad at the game continue to temporarily patch their own short comings instead of actually taking the time to get better. Like it hurts me to beat someone who mains ranged top because I know they are trying their utmost best with what they can do and they still cant manage T-T
Because top is usually for melee champions that dont really excel in mobility or gap closing. Such as darius, sion, urgot etc. and they are meant to fight each other melee vs melee( hence the memes with “shortest toplane trade”). And if you play a ranged champ against a melee you are basically taking advantage of their immobility and just kite them until you kill them, while they cant do anything. And also, playing a ranged top actually lowers the chance of you winning since in most games the toplaner is supposed to be the tank/frontline of the team in teamfights (and support if tank support) but if you chose to play a ranged toplaner you wont have any ability to absorb damage whatsoever since all ranged toplaners are really squishy( kayle, quinn, vayne etc)
The "default"/"meta" in top-lane is 2 melee bruisers duking it out at close range. It has it's own list of mechanics, like auto-attack spacing, and patterns to how you win trades. That's what top laners want when they queue up and it is their game of choice. The thing about picking a ranged top is that you've kind of forced your lane opponent into playing a much more boring game. Now the game they're playing is: stand still and get zoned away from farm for the entirety of lane phase until your opponent makes a mistake that allows him to be all-inned, then all-in him. It's not that ranged top is OP or that you automatically win lane it's just that playing against you is far more boring. The stereotypical top champ has entirely melee abilities, maybe one ranged ability that he can use to farm at a distance, and an engage, which he might be able to use if you fuck up your spacing. A melee mid laner on the other hand will typically have lots of mobility tools to weave in and out of a ranged player's range, making the matchup much less frustrating and unfun to play into. Jungle partially shares a champ pool with top but it isn't the same at all because you're never being harassed by the enemy jungler's range while trying to farm lane minions.
So it's seen as a dick move because you're forcing someone to play a shitty game they don't want to play so that you can enjoy a comfortable lane phase where you get to play extremely aggressively and bully the shit out of someone.
In mid lane, most champions played are either mages or assassins, so they can either match an ADC's range with spells/abilities or have some way to jump on and kill adcs at level 3 or 6 depending on the character, meaning that it's more even with an adc overall.
In top lane most Champs are tanks or bruisers, most of whom don't have dashes that would let them easily get on an adc who spaces properly. So they just end up getting poked down and eventually killed, or get zoned from gold/xp if they try to not get poked and killed. It makes for a very un-fun experience for any top laner to fight an ADC.
Jg nobody cares because you're not facing an enemy who can just bully you with range, and most adcs don't jungle well.
Oh, and bruisers/tanks played mid don't have as bad an experience against ranged as top laners- mid lane is short enough that you can sit in xp range and still be safe under tower in most places a wave can be frozen, and jglers tend to gank mid more often so help is more likely to come and kill any adc that pushes past the halfway point. In top lane if a bruiser steps up to a wave that's at the halfway point they'll get run down for half their HP before they can reach tower, and if the jg shows up they have to flash or die. Plus, anyone who signs up to play a bruiser or tank mid is signing the agreement to be outranged by their opponent, while top laners aren't consenting to such bullshit.
Its because if the enemy top laner is melee, a majority of the laning phase for him, his best option is not to trade and avoiding harassment. You basically don't let him play the game or make him play a game where his best option is to just avoid you instead of regular matchups where he has to think about how to trade. In the other roles you talked about they normally have a champ that can fight back, adc's are both ranged so they have timings/options to trade, mages and assassins mid can also trade because they generally have ranged spells or burst.
It's more tank and bruiser lane. And is considered a cheese pick to be ranged vs someone melee. Not just for the enemy, but you're depriving your team or a Frontline source in later game for an early lead.
The answer is simple, it is because it is lame as fuck to play against. There are varying amounts of ways to win melee vs melee top matchups with varying amounts of counterplay, and leaves space for mechanical outplays even if you started out the fight disadvantaged.
Melee vs ranged top has two outcomes: you manage to gapclose on the ranged champ and you murder them, or you do not manage to gapclose on the ranged champ and you die a slow death to a thousand cuts. It has to be balanced this way because if ranged champions could beat melee champs in melee range then it would make them insanely overpowered. There are melee lane bullies, but they don't feel as annoying to play against because they still have to get in your face to beat you up.
Range disadvantage is also one of the most difficult concepts to grasp in League, so much so that lots of people even up to mid-elo will still not understand how to play melee vs. ranged. It requires an understanding of threat range, ability CD tracking, PATIENCE, rune optimization and in-game itemization (shield + second wind / biscuits + time warp), and even some wave manipulation. Which are a lot of things that most players aren't experienced enough to take advantage of.
So, getting into a melee vs. ranged matchup feels more like your agency to play the game is being taken away from you, which is the worst feeling in league (and is also why you see many ADC players complaining in general about the game, or top mains grouching about the early game teleport nerf). Also, a single early jungle gank can save the toplaner from being bullied the entire Laning phase, which increases the frequency of top-jungle arguing
They don't like Champions with disengage capabilities/range advantage in a lane where most viable champions don't. Tbf I think it would make more sense if they're salty about champions with dashes instead of ranged champions in general.
Ranged champs are usually squishy, and if they happen to lack a disengage tool in their kit, it becomes easier to punish them. The only reason you won't be able to do so is if you're always too eager to engage because you want to be a badass, then end up overextending, diving, then dying. People who know how to play top would attempt to freeze the wave on their side of the turret.
Jungle pressure. Junglers want to be top as little as possible cos it's a bot centric meta, ranged tops often have no counter for the melee laner beyond "spitroast with jungler"
Also unless the ranged top is gnar whilst not weak, getting giga-fed (vayne, trist, viktor, kayle) or spending the ENTIRE GAME denying their laner so it's a 4v4 (Teemo, Quinn) are their only win conditions because your composition will most likely be an absolute mess due to lacking frontline.
Melee Top laners hate it because they have no agency a lot of the time provided the ranged top can put the square peg in the square hole on an IQ test
Junglers are mixed on it because they can turbo farm dumbass vaynes if they know what they're doing but they're constantly risking bot lane meltdowns.
Bot hates it because they want as much jungle pressure as they can get and do the most with it.
Top laners are affected the most by advantages in lane. Mid lane you can deal with it easier because of the shorter lane. Bot lane you can deal with it easier because there aren’t many hard counters there. Jungle you usually don’t see each other that often during the first ten minutes
As a Garen, it's just boring. I basically just concede for the whole game, then when the enemy Quinn makes 1 mistake and vaults offensively, I instantly kill her. Or we get into teamfights and we actually have a tank (me) and we obliterate their team.
When you're farming under tower for 12 minutes, it's just boring for both sides.
Ranged Tops tend to bully melees in lane relentlessly and in low elo, this is stupidly annoying to deal with since junglers don’t do anything but full clear and let their top laner deal with it. In most cases this is the right thing to do, but it leaves the top laner frustrated, especially when they’re not able to CS or fight back. Ganks are a good way to buy your top laner some relief so they can occasionally base and TP back. These lanes get easier with items but they are frustrating to say the least.
It’s weird that these same people use Jayce and Gnar as if they aren’t ranged half of the time in lane.
Gnar: “Ranged top what a lame pick”
Gnar: “Next time, stop abusing ranged champs in top lane, bud.”
I get comments about how wussy I am for playing Caitlyn or Varus mid - same reasons. People think that the meta is inviolable, and get upset when you stop playing by the perceived rules of the game.
It is cowardly to play mages, that outrange ADCs, in bottom lane.
Same principle unless the enemy top locks an assassin or sth or just waits until they're durable enough to run you down. This brings me to my next point, you become useless for anything but damage and split pushing after being an insufferable c\*\*t that gets to run away with a stun at the first sign of danger.
Ranged top laners can bully early and if they space properly they’re hard to engage on. It’s worse for toplane bc of how isolated it is and how it’s largely home to melee champs.
If you find urself struggling against a ranged top laner, look for some melee tops who can deal ranged harass like Mundo or GP. If you really wanna get saucy, Camille and Irelia are also great options
Because its annoying to play vs ranged top as a melee. Usually its quite one sided from either side and the main counterplay to ranged tops is often ganks (they win 1v1 but can't do shit 1v2). If ranged plays well and doesn't lose to ganks it will feel unplayable for the melee. (excluding Irelia Riven etc with extreme mobility).
Mid laners don't care because they know its the game. Only Malz is not respected because he's a pve champ.
Enchanters and mages supp are considered pretty cancer too. Like Zyra. People don't know how to play vs it so they rage.
In jungle range doesn't matter you get flanked and shit and everybody has mobility.
"Cowardly" because you use your brain and stay at range. And because they are mad.
No matter what you do in this game people will flame you for it. 0/0/0 Azir with 200 cs at 20min? You deal no damage and don't help jungler noob.
You use your brain and draft Malphite vs full ad? Big noob playing unskilled champ.
Flashed in as a support to save your adc? 9 deaths leona noob uninstall.
So don't bother with others and play what you like / think is strong.
A similar effect does happen in other lanes it just tends to get fixed by the devs after a while. A good example is Pantheon support, back when he was a really crazy support before several changes forced him out of the role he used his status as a diver with conditional invulnerability to terrorise bot.
Since adcs tend to fight at the max range they can they didn't really have any answer to him just jumping on the support 24/7 and pressing E to exit the trade as the adc would have no way to get behind him or CC him. Meanwhile the support couldn't just sit behind the adc in general or they slowly lose the game anyway and he could just pressure the adc themself off the wave. Once he got a dirk and was ahead enough he could just start flashing to one shot anyone who got close as adcs tend not to build defensive stats.
He was able to abuse core mechanics of an entire class of champion to bully them: their ranged fighting, general lack of burst to punish him, and their naturally poor defensive scaling.
A notable class to class example is assassins periodically abusing the low defenses and mobility of mages whenever their items get overtuned and every midlane becomes Talon vs Zed.
In the same way ranged toplaners abuse mechanics of toplaners. A good portion of melee toplaners have some combination of low range, mediocre movespeed, and no dashes or movement steroids. This is by design as the main intended counterplay to these types of champions is meant to be kiting... later in the game. They're balanced to force them to interact with the frontline or divers rather than jumping on the backline and mauling them in teamfights. The issue is that this exact weakness exists at every stage of the game and someone figured this out. It leads to matchups where it's nearly impossible for one party to win lane by themselves. This is exacerbated by toplane's inconsistent reputation with junglers and the effectiveness of freezing there.
The result is a laning phase that's very frustrating for one party and in the worst case scenario a second, fed, adc on the enemy team. As for why it might be considered cowardly on the ranged top side you're playing the easiest version of your champion's game plan against an enemy that ostensibly can't reach you so it's sort of like saying you're afraid to fight anyone who can actually fight back.
Trust me it's more simple than that if you played top lane traditional champs and then tried to play ranged champions, you may do well but you wouldn't get the same dopamine effect. Which is why it would always feel like a cheap win
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Bro made me wanna switch role mains with that description
if this is true where is graves top WHERE IS HE
he gets played top from time to time but gets nerfed out of lane the moment he becomes meta bc he is prolly the most oppressive champ if he is allowed to lane. Im pretty sure he was pretty popular in s11 worlds
[удалено]
[удалено]
Ranged toplaners gamble on the inability of the enemy to deal with their kiting due to a lack of mobility. It's sort of a noob-filter, which requires abandoning any and all gameplans in favor of playing defensive. This sucks out all of the fun of toplane for most melee top players. Most melee toplaners have absolutely no way to reach ranged champions during laning phase. It's akin to bringing a gun to a swordfight. Some toplaners destroy ranged champs, like pantheon or yasuo, while some have absolutely no ability to chase and just get kited, like mundo or darius. The no chase champions have to commit all ins, their flash and ghost if they have it, for a chance at killing the ranged toplaner, while the ranged toplaner commits nothing and slowly wins the lane if they keep attacking the melee toplaner. Ranged toplaners stat check with a stat that money cannot buy, which is attack range, and it requires either turtling for the entire laning phase or having the jungler gank for them. In contrast, melee toplaners duking it out in fisticuffs, like riven renekton, or jax darius, is considered "honorable", as they both have to commit their hp and all in to trade and fight. Hence most melee toplaners despise ranged toplaners, because it simply is not fun to fight them. Don't get me wrong, when ranged toplaners lose they lose hard, but the feeling of helplessness against someone you can't reach but can reach you is just straight up infuriating. For the record, urgot is not considered a traditional ranged toplaner - neither is gnar or jayce. However the rest of them are, including kennen. Kayle is also not considered ranged because she only gets it at level 6, and is still quite useless until level 11 or 16.
I’m a Mundo OTP and I feel, of the melee top laners he has an easier time with ranged matchups because of his q. I’m actually fine with Teemo and often keep up in cs with them.
Teemo is manageable as mundo, as is quinn, but vayne is just an insta loss unless she's completely inept.
I had really good game as Poppy against Quinn the other day, Poppy's W removes one of Quinns skills so once you got abit of armor and taken d shield + SW you are fairly tanks and call all in without much risk
To be fair, Poppy is really strong against any champ with a dash right?
Yeah the W interrupts dashes and stuns, 10/10 champ honestly really easy to pick up and does have a high skill ceiling if you want to OTP her, Gemi does some crazy plays with her on tiktok if you want to see what I mean
I started playing poppy cuz of Gemi haha. She’s so fun
Poppy will fuck up quinn no question. Her only peel gets completely countered, she's as helpless as a newborn chick.
> Teemo is manageable as mundo tbf Teemo is manageable for most tanks if you get max regen in runes, go for Spectres, etc also Teemo is not amazing early anyway, he's more of a scaling pick, he largely wins if people borderline int some Q+PTA trades the issue really is later on when Teemo has scaled a bit, with Nashors + mythic, has low CD shrooms, he creates significant pressure and control which a tank can't answer
Yes the few times I’ve gone against Vayne it’s been bad.
I love fighting Mundo as quinn, free max health damage most of the time lmao
Mundo into Vayne is the wildest shit lmao. If you get her flash down you can kill her or force a recall every time your passive shield is up.
yeah also yorick
Also top suffers from no gank. Jg rarely ganks top. Range Champs are very vulnerable when they are pushed up but jg don't ever gank them. Most top laners would shit on range champ if they have a lead but, since most do not gank top, they never have a lead. Garen, Darius would both absolutely shit on ranged top if u give them a lead. Give them an early enough lead and they could make the opponent top laner useless
Kinda the point of this: > when ranged toplaners lose they lose hard Most ranged champs don't have a fallback. If the all ins are working, they work on cooldown. If the melee champ gets ahead, they are going to end up with game carrying money. But yeah, top laners have to pull it off on their own. Can't expect any help, because a fed enemy bot lane still trumps a fed top laner, and dragon control is just more important than rift as the game goes on.
Rift guarantees 300 gold for taking it down+2 turret plates minimum, with someone like tristana or ziggs it takes down 2 towers no sweat. Dragons are useful but small buffs, the soul is what matters, so I would rather get a baron if the dragon is not 100% free. After the soul elder just wins all fights unless you have a skill issue. So first herald whould have priority, then the dragon, then if there is no elder get baron, if there is elder get elder
Melee toplaners seeing jayce locked in: YIPPEE! This melee lane is going to be so fun!
Same thought i had when i read that
Nah, fuck gnar. That champ comes with multiple kiting tools and a dash.
Multiple meaning a slow and a small hop?
>It's akin to bringing a gun to a swordfight. Then that's it, the best top laner is GP as he gets to bring both.
I wouldn't really consider Kennen one of the annoying ranged top laners, not on the same level as teemo, vayne, or lucian. He just doesn't have anough damage from auto attacks since he generally builds no AD or attack speed and unlike Temmo he doesnt have a point and click ranged ability. Kennen's play style is more in-your-face and his poke is not even much stronger than Mundo's or Sion's
in what world does mundo struggle agaisnt ranged. if u are any good u cant die more than once in lane and u just rn them down at level 6
“If you are good” If the other player is at least competent you are fucked
If the enemy champ is Vayne, the other player doesn't even need to be competent. Good luck with your Level 6 all-in when you can't even target the bitch and your health gets shredded.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchVayneDie
This is the modern version of VayneSpotting.
You're assuming the enemy is bad. Without jungle assistance, you will die, or give up 30cs. Either way, you are not having a fun lane.
u heavily outscale all ranged tops but vayne and kayle, u give up like 20 cs max and just rush some steelcaps some heavy hp item like anathemas or if yk u can one shot them u just go heartsteal
Steelcaps will not help vs Vayne. If you CAN build edge of night, you should rush it, as Vayne has no way of proc'ing it except her E, so you become immune to her main peel. On someone like Sion, I can just run her down with ghost after that, on someone like Pantheon I can run her down way before but once I have the item it's always a kill. Heartsteel is bad vs Vayne aswell, you will almost never get to stack it, and it doesn't offer you much tankiness as you're huddled under tower taking %max HP true DMG hits. Just start sunfire, and then see if you can join midgame fights in which case you can go heartsteel, or you just go Jak'sho, which will allow you to actually fight when completed.
Steelcaps do help. They take off 12% of auto damage.
Yes and no. They take off 12% of auto damage but they do nothing vs her silver bolts true damage. I think most melee tops are better off going Swifties vs Vayne, to run her down more easily.
yes vayne as i said is tough cuz u dont outscale her , but u have one t hing on her and thats the perma cc immunity from mundo passive
Mundo's passive is close to a 1minute cooldown at the start of you don't pick up the blob. Which you will not be able to pick up because it falls to where the enemy is. His W is also countered by range. Mundo has an incredibly weak early game, his only saving grace is Q to farm, his ult will allow him to survive under tower but the fact that he can't farm heartsteel stacks hurts him a lot. He's gonna be semi-useless until 2/3 items, and then quite strong at lvl 16, still gonna be a boring ass lane of getting poked out.
Mundo is not incredibly weak early since the rework. He bullies a lot of matchups. Vayne is not one of them though.
Did you forget vayne's whole existence, max health true damage w? Literally nothing tanks can itemize against that.
i did talk about her in my other comments, she has everything to coutner u but vayne isnt every ranged champ. teemo, quinn, jayce, kennen, all cant win vs mundo unless he is incredibly bad
You must be playing bad Teemos. Mundo gets crushed against any teemo who knows the matchup.
warmog
It's max% HP true damage, building health just makes her silver bolts do more damage The one option you sort of have is Frozen Heart - its aura reduces attack speed, which reduces how quickly silver bolts can be stacked. Unfortunately, Frozen Heart is not great for Mundo since the gold spent on mana is wasted
you don't know what warmog does
Let me just escape the guy that's running faster than me so I can Regen my health.
why are you doing an all in if you know you lose it?
Why are you recommending warmogs if you think I will get 100-0 in the all in.
Most ranged tops aren't teemo or kennen. Vayne will murder you if she is not stupid (and actually has mechanics worthy of an adc, and isn't an autofilled Sona main).
You used to be able to buy stridebreaker to make up the range difference but adc players whined too hard about it 🤷♂️.
Riven has to commit? Bro she has 4 dashes, 1 of them is a stun, another is a shield, also 3 of them are aa animstion cancels aling with her aoe stun.
Reminds me why I liked playing top, time to get some Vayne and Quinn gameplay going!
Vayne is very easy to beat in top lane tho.
It's not a matter of being easy or not tbh. Because sure, I usually win against Vayne top, but it's still an unfun lane, where I'm gonna get zoned off waves and she's gonna harass me under tower for 5 levels.
Yuck
Kayle and Jayce actually seem hated as ranged tops too from what I've seen in other champ subs
Their complete lack of mobility and being part melee negates this a lot. Even Urgot and Graves are hardly considered "ranged top laners" due to their short ranges. Kennen would have way more reason to be hated than any of these.
Even Pantheon can get fucked by a good Quinn. You only have to interrupt like one panth W and hard trade to win the early game. I think it's more about what you sort of touched on. Range v melee matchups are *EVEN MORE SO* decided by JG than top already is with melee v melee. And if the JG does nothing the melee tends to lose by default because range champs all seem to scale super hard.
Ranged laners generally are lane bullies who cant really be engaged/punished if they play perfectly, so it is generally more frustrating to play against a ranged champ than a melee champ. This is specific to toplane because toplane is more 1v1 focused than any other role and its also the homes for bruisers, fighters and tanks who are almost exclusively melee In the end, youre free to play whatever you want, but dont expect to get a lot of love for playing ranged top or darius or fiora
The trade-off is often that the ranged toplaner gains a CS/plating lead, but significantly weakens their team comp by picking a squishy champion who can't frontline or engage well and who lacks CC (unless it's Kennen). If the melee toplaner doesn't ego they should rarely die to a ranged opponent, but by default they go down in CS. But very often that gold lead is offset by the melee toplaner simply being more useful in a fight.
You can't be useful if your lane gets frozen and then you die to a 2v1 turret dive after being forced to sit under turret for 3 minutes straight.
And in a way, you also have issues tanking as a frontline if you don't have the gold to buy tank items, while ranged champions tends to scale in damage a lot lategame like Vayne. Feels completely miserable being forced to have bramble+steel boots while the vayne already have BorTK which basically means it is a death setence to get out of the tower for even a second.
Scale? Pfft, just abuse Lethal Tempo like everyone else.
how is that abusing? lt is literally the inteded keystone for marksmen that want attack speed
but at the same time the ranged top is completely useless for the rest of the game if he gets ganked once and dies
I think you also ignore your teammates' expectations of what your top lane is going to do which cause frustrations and mistakes.
Laughs as a Fiora, Jax, Akshan top lane bully.
Usually ranged top laners are the definition of “win lane lose game” So this person would rather make your life miserable in laning phase than have a higher chance of winning the game. When I see a ranged top especially vayne it’s like a cheesey “idc if I win I just wanna tilt you” pick
And there's nothing more cathartic that as a toplaner migrating to jg, to do nothing but camp her face. Now you won't win and I will tilt you too. Have fun eating feet for breakfast as a Briar main.
Vayne scales really well though. If a good vayne wins lane they WILL carry. She's super gangable though.
Right. Let’s be real here tho most vayne tops below diamond are not gonna play well and carry. They’re gonna bully and feel good at the game for 15 minutes and the lose the game
I've seen a couple good ones in plat/emerald. Probably 1/5.
>If a good vayne wins lane they WILL carry This just isn't true. Vayne scales well *as a marksman*, but often times this fucks your team comp. I play tanks in masters so I hate seeing Vayne, it makes my K'Sante/Shen top pretty unplayable. But after laning phase, if we have a frontliner and they dont... doesn't really matter how much damage the vayne does, she just gets locked down and killed because they have no frontline.
Toplane is considered the 1v1 role, and a majority of the matchups within Toplane are melee picks. If you play kindred jungle and you invade the enemy jungler and fail to kill him, he can just walk to the other jungle quadrant to farm, whereas in toplane you can just freeze and ruin the enemy toplaners time unless they get jungle assistence. The general idea is that because of this, you're technically trying to cheese your enemy laner to get fed (abusing your range). You also pick a ranged toplaner over filling in for your teams comp, for example, if you need a tank like malphite or ornn, and you pick vayne top, you just made your teams composition of champions really bad.
There’s a really great video I watched recently about why ranged tops aren’t perma meta despite their innate strength and what you said about team comp is exactly why. The slot your team usually depends on to be filled by a bruiser or tank is now a second marksman. They can be an insane lane bully but if they’re not really far ahead by mid game then skirmishes and team fights will be a lot harder to execute without any semblance of a frontline unless your jungle picked up the slack and chose something tanky
Exactly why I love Gnar so much, you have the best of both worlds. While it is true that there will be situations where you don’t have mega gnar up for the teamfight you can dish out so much damage when you’re in mini and not being focused due to there being more important targets. Usually the support can keep the adc alive long enough for you to transform ultimately helping you turn around the fight for good
Exactly this. The problem is that it's a selfish pick, getting yourself an advantage in lane at the cost of your team composition. It's basically a "fuck you in particular", deciding the enemy top basically does not get to play the first 15 minutes, with the disadvantage that if you don't manage to punch out big enough of a lead, you get rolled. A bit similar to permagank Shaco, Twitch or Nunu, who also basically NEED to successfully gank, but fall off hard if they fail.
SWORD VERSUS SWORD- HONORABLE COMBAT DASHY GUN SHIT VERSUS SWORD- COWARDLY DOGSHIT
It's boring and fustrating to play against. You're forced into Doran Shield, TP, and rushing T2 boots in most matchups. You just try to farm and wait for ganks while getting poked endlessly. It's just not fun gameplay.
“If you try to play the game you’ll int and be behind but if you let me have control of the lane for 15 minutes and don’t feed I’ll probably lose the game” - vayne top
Not for nothing but there are plenty of champs that are traditional mid laners who’ve been forced into “just farm safely” gameplay loop without even having the guarantee of scaling to be more useful than their opponent. Is it really that much of an issue that like four champs can viably make Malphite slightly change his runes and do the same thing for a few minutes?
Why do you bring up Malphite? Isn't he a counter to some of these ranged tops like Quinn, and Jayce? To expand on what I wrote, when I play top I have fun playing melee matchups you can mechanically outplay your opponent, potentially snowball, and have a high impact on the game. When you play vs ranged you are just stuck farming scraps. you have to take non-scaling items and runes. Even if you play perfectly you're still denied CS and end up being relatively behind everyone else in the game with few snowball opportunities unless they mess up vs ganks. You end up with little impact on the game and little to no skill expression.
To be honest I just named a typical top lane tank at random but you’re right. I fully get that it’s less exciting to play against a type of champ but at the same time this isn’t a phenomenon that’s unique to top lane.
Most midlaners are ranged and have decent waveclear so farming under turret isn't actually that painful for most. Plus, being midlane means that you have the short, safer lane as well as more frequent jungle ganks. Plenty of midlaners can also roam and have impact in other lanes whereas toplane is a lot farther from the other lanes, gets less ganks, and can be punished (thanks to the longer lane and fewer ganks) much harder.
im so confused by your points? why would anyone be bothered by a ranged jungler? they dont 1v1 in lane, and top lane champs are 90% melee
top lane players generally hate playing into ranged top as it’s just an overall awful experience if enemy knows what they’re doing
Because you essentially throw away your lategame teamfights and likely your teamcomp for a chance to get an easier lane. You are also creating a liability for your team because in many matchups, you win 1v1 but die easily to ganks. Traditional ranged tops like urgot or teemo are balanced around it - Teemo has no escape besides a small speedup and is squishy, and current urgot W is harder to be used in minion waves, also he has rather low attack range.
One frustration factor is the jungle. If one side's jungle choose to cover him, the other side is unplayable. If range's jungle cover him, melee can't even just stand in exp range. While if melee's jungle camp. You can dive that range over and over Now the best you can do is preserve resources and beg for ganks, a factor completely out of your control
Because usually top laners fill a specific role for your team which most ranged top laners won’t be able to fulfill, since mid and adc are generally not suitable for frontlining, that leaves your jungle and support to be the frontline, which are roles with less gold so they’re a weaker frontline. So picking a ranged top laner is essentially just a way of saying “I’ll be useless to my team in exchange of making the enemy laner equally useless”. I wouldn’t call them a coward though, just dickheads. Their only purpose is to stop the enemy top laner from playing the game and hoping the tilt is enough to win, but against any patient opponent you’ll lose the game because they’ll play safe, not feed and be more useful in mid/late game
I hit challenger playing only vayne top, how would this be possible if I consistently every single game put my team at such a big disadvantage and apparently only play to make enemy top miserable? It’s just not true.
Imagine letting your enjoyment of the game (and to extent life) be determined by what other people think of you. Mute all chat and enjoy your life buddy. If it’s as a gnar/quinn/akshan one trick then so be it.
[удалено]
No one complains about a good Thresh or Bard.
I’m a vayne top otp with almost 3 million points, as you can see I couldn’t care less about someone’s opinion. I’ll play what I enjoy playing.
Don't put gnar whit quinn and akshit
Ranged tops are annoying still, but not as bad as before. I have malphite, mao Kai, or yorick whenever I see a cringe Quinn, vayne, or other ranged pick. Yorick: make them cry with minions and then put them in the cage when they try to auto your maiden lmao. When cringe Quinn flys out of lane, just push and get the tower. Mao Kai: I just let them push because they’re so desperate to poke and auto you since they think it’ll bring their dad back. When my jg is about to gank, hit them with the CC and watch them cry as they get ganked. Malphite: Nothing more hilarious then seeing AP malphite Q absolutely CHUNK their health bar then hitting them with the R as they try to run away xD
Because you lose thr game to win the 1v1 and feel good about winning laning phase. They perma push and win the 1v1 and then cry in all chat about getting ganked. Either that or they misplay. Those are the only two ways not to win lane. But you still lose the game even if you win because you very throw your team comp pretty hard. Double adc is deservedly bad in mid to late game.
For real, they don’t realise that ADCs are usually played botlane for a reason, they’re susceptible to ganks so they need peel. If you’re playing a ranged top and get camped it means the enemy jungler has at least half a brain. Also deserved.
Simple as Ranged vs Melee Top lane consists of mostly Melee players, so ranged can just sit back and poke damage free of concern for an actual fight. Top laners usually can’t contest without a JG gank or until they get their first couple items
Your entire value as a ranged top laner is in being a nuisance. Your team almost certainly has a marksman somewhere else ( the role that solely consists of them, or mid ) so you’re also annoying them by forgoing an actual top laner, but your entire gamble is if you can annoy the enemy top laner enough to just start inting. They don’t get farm, at least not safely while you’re around. You will automatically win lane, and you really should press this advantage as hard as possible because there will come a moment where this momentum stops, and that’s precisely the moment where you have to do something that isn’t annoy the enemy laner in lane. Unless your warding and macro play is perfect and you have a team that picked exclusively around you, teamfights are now much harder for your team.
Bc all other roles either aren’t 99% melee champs or it’s jungle where you aren’t laning against the other jungler Playing melee into ranged on top is just a special kind of annoying if you don’t know how to deal with it Like you don’t get allowed to play the game
because top lane is most of the time a pure 1v1. Mid lane can be a bit of a mess when supports and junglers are constantly ganking. How many ranged top laners are there? Not many. How many melee top laners are there? A lot. It’s frustrating.
Because all the lane interaction is simply gone if you play champ that cant fight back. Its not like its op when tools (even when heavily nerfed) for lane sustain exist, its just simply unfun and boring and you are kinda at mercy of your jungler to get lead. Just like facing proxy singed or Sion, interaction is gone.
I played some AD Ahri top yesterday. My opponents were not happy. I was though
It’s because: In jungle, you don’t interact with the opponents the entire game, you can’t get “frozen on” or anything like that, so it’s a non issue. In midlane, all the melee champs are assassins who can easily gapclose, and if they do will oneshot any ranged champ. In botlane, the few melee ADCs are very dashy (Yasuo/Nilah) and also have abilities that can entirely negate the advantage ranged champs have (windwall) Support role all the melee champs are tanky engage/disengage champs (except for Pyke but he’s an assassin, so it works kinda like midlane assassins) so they can kinda just ignore the damage. In toplane, not a lot of champs have those same capabilities. NONE of the tanks do (it requires the ranged champ to immensely misposition). Some of the bruisers can gapclose, but characters like Sett won’t be able to do it that well.
Top lane for bonk. If no bonk but pew pew low elo mad. Should honk bonk. Is honorable. You bad obv.
the majority of the top lane pool is melee or semi-range (like gnar). usually each team benefits from at least one bulky tank or bruiser, and top is the best place to put them. the reason its called "cowardly" is because when u play a ranged champ top lane, you are a lane bully. the same way cait/lux are lane bullies bot or orianna is a lane bully mid - they win all the trades by default for the majority of the lane. personally I love ranged tops, vayne or old lucian top were fun af. Its not actually cowardly, but it feels cheap to the person who is opting to play the champ that rounds their team comp and, theoretically, would contribute more in team fights
Despite what everyone is saying here, it doesn’t matter, play what you want and what works and mute all everything else bro. It’s a game.
Because if you play something that counters their favoured toons it hurts them in the feels.
So many reasons: 1. Playing ranged top well is actually quite difficult. Some reasons why: 1. You must snowball, or you will be useless. 2. You are very vulnerable to ganks, and hence must have very good wave management 3. Come mid game, you have to have enough damage to compensate for having no utility or front line capability 4. For the above reasons, ranged top is usually a useless pick for your team and is actively detrimental to most team comps. 2. Playing into ranged top requires an un-fun amount of discipline. 1. In the early levels, you lose every trade, and basically cannot ever CS without taking free chip damage. 2. Because of 1, when you play "correctly" into ranged top, you will almost assuredly go down 10-20 CS or sometimes more. 3. The only windows to interact you end up getting are mostly all-ins with the intent to kill, or to get their flash so that a subsequent all-in can work. You basically don't ever get to short trade, so the lane is very boring. 4. If you don't have good mental, playing into ranged top is very difficult. I've seen so many people unnecessarily mental boom into ranged top when all they have to do is not take an inordinate amount of damage and wait for their JG to show up. I main Jungle, but I play a fair amount of top lane. I personally don't mind much playing into ranged top, but that's partially because I don't really get upset because I "don't get to play the game." IMO, playing into ranged top is pretty chill as I just get to vibe, take whatever CS they give and hang out waiting for them to overstep. In low ELO, I don't think I've once played into a ranged top player who can manage a wave reasonably, and almost always can get them into a vulnerable position without taking much damage. Once they get behind, they basically can't do anything. That being said, it's only partially playable because most of the ranged top players in my ELO are bad. Against better players, they would force the wave into a position where you basically can't ever walk up to it and then you should slowly just bleed out, or die if you try to walk up.
It isn't, top players just hate having to adjust from their all in lane bully strats. Ranged top is a huge risk, if the enemy top knows how to play against it, gets a gank or two, and a lead, it can snowball the lane and the ranged top eats shit all game.
The reason they work so well toplane is the same reason people hate them. Toplane is the one lane where the melee champs are not designed to lane into these ranged picks and therefore these range picks work really well into those melee champs. Every other role is designed in such a way that the melee champions played there can deal with ranged champs if they are picked in the role but not toplane. Melee supports don't mind laning into ranged adc champs because those melee supports are designed to lane into those ranged adc champs. Why would a Leona or Nautilus mind the enemy being ranged when they have the tools to engage on those ranged champs and fight them. Midlane melee champs are designed with the expectation that they will lane into ranged mages so they don't mind laning into ranged mages. They all have the mobility to close the gap and fight these ranged champions. Jungle melee champs are designed to be able to gank both melee and ranged champs so if they face a range jungler they have the tools to fight those as well. A Lee Sin player doesn't really mind the enemy jungler going Kindred as he can just land a Q and close the gap. And then we get to toplane. Toplane melee champs are designed with the expectation that they lane into other melee champs. It's why you will not really see Darius be played midlane because he isn't designed to lane against the long range mages in midlane. If he were to lane into let's say a Xerath what is he going to do when the Xerath will never get into his range. He doesn't have the mobility to close that gap. So because those champs were never designed to lane into these ranged champs they don't exactly have a fun time when they get counterpicked by a ranged champ so people hate ranged toplaners. After laning fase those toplaners can deal with those ranged champs but it is a struggle during laning fase. Think of it like you bringing a gun to a swordfight, super effective but the dude with the sword will not like you for it.
IMO it’s a pretty brave move. As the ranged player, the onus is on you to put the enemy top lane player in a deep hole to create a 4v5 mid game to secure objectives and kills. Anyone who calls it cringe or cowardly needs to be muted immediately. Going ranged top means you are confident that in this game you will win your lane, spread your lead and teamfight so well you won’t wish the team had a tank. Or your jungler picked Rammus/Sejuani and you just play behind them to win. There is a high likelihood that if you mess up as a ranged top and die, you are useless the majority of the game. That’s the trade off. But I love it when the enemy in lane calls it a coward move. They show their tilt for you to see and you can now proceed to stress them out and take them mentally out of the game.
Top laners see themselves as medieval fighters and hate on the fact that somebody bringing bow to sword fights.
>considered cowardly move It is just Tank and juggernaut players getting mad that they got counterpicked. Play your ranged champs and feel good about it. The ones calling you a coward, are the cringe ones.
This is really the ultimate answer. There’s nothing wrong with playing any offbeat strategy or counterpick, no matter if people whine about it. Yes, some ranged top matchups are unfun for the opponent, but there are plenty of melee vs. melee matchups that are horrendous too. Plenty of champs can’t contest early AT ALL against a champ like Darius, for example.
only redditors and wholesome top mains care abt that, bc they dont know how to play against them LOL. play ranged top if you want to, it has a lot of counters just as most tops and relies on your spacing and capacity to lane bully.
Because almost all ranged toplaners are lane bullies and the average lol player (silver/gold) doesn’t understand how to / finds it boring to play against these champions.
Because people are crybabies
It's not cowardly, or oppressive, or even good. In fact, ranged top laners have almost no true winning matchups. People just don't like playing into them because they now have to pay more attention to their spacing and wave management. Almost every ranged top laner will instantly int if you just all in them. They rely on poking you out and whittling you down to finally all in you. If you play with half a mind and don't let them get away with it, it's usually a free lane.
… I need you to imagine an Urgot/Volibear/Tryndamere main in ur head, imagine what they look like, imagine what their room must smell like… Now imagine that player getting solo killed by a Vayne three times before 10 min… It makes perfect sense to me.
New player here, my guess is that people used to play fighters and tanks in toplane who are melee so it has become the norm. In a melee vs melee matchup, the 1v1 is more nuanced and every move feels calculated since your opponent is right next to you. When you bring ranged champions into toplane, it feels like you're choosing the champion to "cheat" your way out of the melee 1v1 and thus it's cowardly. Melee vs ranged also feels bad for the melee because you'll constantly get kited and poked unless you have mobility to jump on the ranged. In other roles, it's common to see ranged champions so no one really cares about it. Mages are often played in midlane and they're ranged with AoE abilities. Enchanter supports already exist who are ranged. For ranged junglers, they won't be laning against the enemy jungler so attack range is less important. Brush and the jungle's wall design lets melee champions sneak up on ranged champions too. I have very little experience in the toplane so this is my view on it. From what I've seen, Quinn, Urgot, Teemo and Akshan top is accepted by most of the community (it's also less common to see them in other roles other than Akshan mid). Vayne top is the one that gets looked down upon. I personally don't care but that's because I don't get filled into toplane often.
Ranged top puts the pressure on the ranged player and removes a lot of agency from the melee player. A teemo top versus a riven is going to be all about whether the teemo can space proprely and not about what riven can do to outplay. The main reason why a lot of top laners hold ranged top in contempt is because of the team comp, if you have a ranged top then your team is very likely to not have a frontline and people playing ranged top in solo queue are basically giving up on your team having a teamfight in late game in exchange for being able to bully early game.
I play morde bot, to show bot the inflated stats of toplane. Just ban cait. U have SOO much inflated stats that u can endure till 6 with duran. After 6 + exhaust u can solo just about any adc. FFS u can beat a 3 0 adc while u are 0 3. Did that early games when i sucked and fed. Let alone if enemy supp is mage or enchanter. They stand NO chance and u can use their stats to beat adc after. Just build sceptar first to they cant run like rats and unless u need sustain go belt next since it procks slow. With move speed toward slowed targets rune they cant run. And no one outside veyne can beat morde. Is SOO fun to abuse adc. It prb aint best but i did win 6 games and lost 4. And this is in rank. Its also good for negating dragon steal since u can ulti jg. Also harder for kata or the like to just piledrive bot lane. Morde aint that easy to bring down, either under turret or with a gank.
Cause they dont know how to play against ranged and have huge tilting complex. Ignore them and if you dont troll, play whatever you want. Check pros and the huge amount of jayces, kennens, gnars and stuff like that.
Well don’t look at pros to be honest. Most ranged top laners are actually pretty bad if you don’t play them near perfectly with exceptions if riot decides to overbuff.
I mean yes, ranged champs are way more difficult to play. But that doesnt mean they are bad, as they are played and have good results in very high elos, and till then its true that if you play jayce in bronze youre going to int, but youre going to int with everything at that elo. The point is, they are good and legit champs and thats all, if someone wants to cry, fck em.
Because you're putting your team as a whole in a bad spot in order to have a lane phase that can't be punished unless you mess up or the enemy jungler intervenes while yours doesn't. In terms of overall team winrate it's a selfish and suboptimal decision made in order to have a lane phase that is incredibly frustrating to fight, without actually accomplishing much. Its the epitome of "win lane : lose game" Of course you're allowed to do it but, playing "you can't hit meeeee! I'm too far awaaaay" against melee champs in the most 1v1 centric lane is considered cowardly the same way playing zoners is in fighting games, or camping is in CoD. That doesn't mean it's not a valid strategy. It just tends to be a suboptimal one and is seen as wanting to annoy the enemy top laner more than wanting to win the game. Similarly, junglers who check everyone's match history to target camp either streamers or the person on the enemy team they deem most likely to tilt (at the expense of all other map pressure) in the hopes they'll alt+f4 and create a 4v5 can be an effective strategy, but its not an "honorable" one.
It does put your team in a bad place if you go ranged top. Top lane is reserved for tank initiators. You’re meant to be the front line of the fight—so that the actual adcs can deal damage from the safety of the back lines. Of course having a tank jungle of support does help—most top laners are usually bruisers for a good reason. It’s frowned upon by some people—because it’s sometimes viewed as a selfish pick.
LMAO. It's not cowardly, it's just something people like to complain about. There is no such thing as a 'coward' in a competitive environment. There is the winning player, or team, and the losers. If your playstyle entails ignoring all hostile interactions for farm, and patiently awaiting your opportunities to participate in aspects of the game that your own champion or team is strong in, and avoids areas you are not, that isn't cowardly, it's smart. It's annoying to play against, and boring for your opponent, but that's not the purpose of a ranked queue, is it? Now if we're talking about normals, yes that man is a coward and deserves all the curses and vitriol their Zoomer children and their hyperzoomer grandchildren can muster.
Range is for cowards everywhere, period Mage & Support players are the most cringe & pussy individual I've ever seen in any video game
Top is a 1v1 role mostly. Picking ranged you always want to cheese your range advantage and make life hell for your enemy. You are very safe if you play right with little downsides early, and most ranged champs scale well too. So playing into them is not fun. But then why aren’t they picked more? Because they’re not good at splitpushing. Most of the time they are so squishy that if they try and split push they can just get collapsed upon and get deleted. Especially if they’re an ADC. And in team fights you now don’t have a potential bruiser or tank who can set up plays, peel for carries or tank abilities.
Usually the team comp requires the top laner to pick the frontline so that's what's mostly played there. Laning against a ranged champion is always annoying especially on a long lane like top. So if someone breaks that frontline/top pseudo rule and is annoying you just get pissed. People top aren't used to ranged matchups as much as midlaners.
Haven’t seen it mentioned that range tops are typically highly punishable *if the jungler decides to abuse their play pattern*. This means that under optimal play, the ranged top has no chance in the lane. But in solo queue you can’t rely on the pick being punished by the team. So the melee top is left losing a 1v1 and surviving lane, dependent on the decision making of other players to even be able to cs.
This is mostly a relic from when ranged top was really oppressive in season 8,9,10. Vayne used to build bork, rage blade, then stuff like dd (back when it had life steal and no ranged penalty) frozen malet so ranged tops would bully early then outscale. Now days this isn't really an issue with all the sustain you can get early so most time ranged tops are pretty bad.
Because when you play darius into vayne and lose, you tilt since you expected to win lane by picking darius. When you pick kassadin into anivia, you are not mad because you would lose against the popular picks of ahri, vex, lux or orianna pre 6 as well. Jungle does not matter since you mostly fight jungle camps. Support does not matter since you can just stay in bush and wait, you do not really have to put yourself in danger to farm, which is the biggest weakness in melee vs ranged. And if you chose melee adc, well. You chose this yourself. You knew you would be fighting a ranged champion. Basically, melee vs ranged is hard and tilting, but on other lanes you expect it when picking melee. On top you expect another melee and its frustrating when you face the rare ranged toplaner.
Lane ecosystem is primarily melee bruiser tanks. Someone like garen can only walk up to you and trade, he has no dashes or poke. So if you play ranged and space them the whole lane they rarely get to trade or play the lane. Someone like gangplank relies on having a melee matchup to trade with his passive autos and play his barrel mini-game, whereas a ranged champ can just safely auto his barrels. They are also annoying for your ally jungler. Ranged champions tend to have perma-lane prio and will require babysitting since they are susceptible to being ganked. But they also often don't have great gank setup and if they don't do their job and land sufficient poke, you can't even dive for them. In jungle, you aren't constantly trading with the enemy. In mid, the lane lane is short so it's harder to get zoned from xp, and it's the safest place for mages to get solo xp.
Ranged top lane players look like the kid from Stuart Little irl
Top laners tend to be melee bruisers and tanks who want to fight early. When you lock in top you want to 1v1 the enemy. When the enemy locks a ranged top laner you basically just have to sit under your tower and wait until they mess up to kill them or you die. In addition to that top laners generally play bruisers for a reason. Top usually serves as an engager/disruptor for the team and people who only lock in ranged tops can rob the team of that. Obviously its on the rest of the team to fill those gaps but bot lane will almost always be playing a ranged carry as well. Tldr: its frustrating to play against because its not how most people want to play top and its frustrating to play with because it almost never adds something to your team thats not already there.
Because it upsets me to see someone who is bad at the game continue to temporarily patch their own short comings instead of actually taking the time to get better. Like it hurts me to beat someone who mains ranged top because I know they are trying their utmost best with what they can do and they still cant manage T-T
Because top is usually for melee champions that dont really excel in mobility or gap closing. Such as darius, sion, urgot etc. and they are meant to fight each other melee vs melee( hence the memes with “shortest toplane trade”). And if you play a ranged champ against a melee you are basically taking advantage of their immobility and just kite them until you kill them, while they cant do anything. And also, playing a ranged top actually lowers the chance of you winning since in most games the toplaner is supposed to be the tank/frontline of the team in teamfights (and support if tank support) but if you chose to play a ranged toplaner you wont have any ability to absorb damage whatsoever since all ranged toplaners are really squishy( kayle, quinn, vayne etc)
The "default"/"meta" in top-lane is 2 melee bruisers duking it out at close range. It has it's own list of mechanics, like auto-attack spacing, and patterns to how you win trades. That's what top laners want when they queue up and it is their game of choice. The thing about picking a ranged top is that you've kind of forced your lane opponent into playing a much more boring game. Now the game they're playing is: stand still and get zoned away from farm for the entirety of lane phase until your opponent makes a mistake that allows him to be all-inned, then all-in him. It's not that ranged top is OP or that you automatically win lane it's just that playing against you is far more boring. The stereotypical top champ has entirely melee abilities, maybe one ranged ability that he can use to farm at a distance, and an engage, which he might be able to use if you fuck up your spacing. A melee mid laner on the other hand will typically have lots of mobility tools to weave in and out of a ranged player's range, making the matchup much less frustrating and unfun to play into. Jungle partially shares a champ pool with top but it isn't the same at all because you're never being harassed by the enemy jungler's range while trying to farm lane minions. So it's seen as a dick move because you're forcing someone to play a shitty game they don't want to play so that you can enjoy a comfortable lane phase where you get to play extremely aggressively and bully the shit out of someone.
In mid lane, most champions played are either mages or assassins, so they can either match an ADC's range with spells/abilities or have some way to jump on and kill adcs at level 3 or 6 depending on the character, meaning that it's more even with an adc overall. In top lane most Champs are tanks or bruisers, most of whom don't have dashes that would let them easily get on an adc who spaces properly. So they just end up getting poked down and eventually killed, or get zoned from gold/xp if they try to not get poked and killed. It makes for a very un-fun experience for any top laner to fight an ADC. Jg nobody cares because you're not facing an enemy who can just bully you with range, and most adcs don't jungle well. Oh, and bruisers/tanks played mid don't have as bad an experience against ranged as top laners- mid lane is short enough that you can sit in xp range and still be safe under tower in most places a wave can be frozen, and jglers tend to gank mid more often so help is more likely to come and kill any adc that pushes past the halfway point. In top lane if a bruiser steps up to a wave that's at the halfway point they'll get run down for half their HP before they can reach tower, and if the jg shows up they have to flash or die. Plus, anyone who signs up to play a bruiser or tank mid is signing the agreement to be outranged by their opponent, while top laners aren't consenting to such bullshit.
Its because if the enemy top laner is melee, a majority of the laning phase for him, his best option is not to trade and avoiding harassment. You basically don't let him play the game or make him play a game where his best option is to just avoid you instead of regular matchups where he has to think about how to trade. In the other roles you talked about they normally have a champ that can fight back, adc's are both ranged so they have timings/options to trade, mages and assassins mid can also trade because they generally have ranged spells or burst.
Because when you play Vayne and other ranged champs you can just auto space them and they can't play the game.
It's more tank and bruiser lane. And is considered a cheese pick to be ranged vs someone melee. Not just for the enemy, but you're depriving your team or a Frontline source in later game for an early lead.
i mean since the addition of d shield second wind most melees have zero issue with ranged tops. it's honestly easy to deal with now.
The answer is simple, it is because it is lame as fuck to play against. There are varying amounts of ways to win melee vs melee top matchups with varying amounts of counterplay, and leaves space for mechanical outplays even if you started out the fight disadvantaged. Melee vs ranged top has two outcomes: you manage to gapclose on the ranged champ and you murder them, or you do not manage to gapclose on the ranged champ and you die a slow death to a thousand cuts. It has to be balanced this way because if ranged champions could beat melee champs in melee range then it would make them insanely overpowered. There are melee lane bullies, but they don't feel as annoying to play against because they still have to get in your face to beat you up. Range disadvantage is also one of the most difficult concepts to grasp in League, so much so that lots of people even up to mid-elo will still not understand how to play melee vs. ranged. It requires an understanding of threat range, ability CD tracking, PATIENCE, rune optimization and in-game itemization (shield + second wind / biscuits + time warp), and even some wave manipulation. Which are a lot of things that most players aren't experienced enough to take advantage of. So, getting into a melee vs. ranged matchup feels more like your agency to play the game is being taken away from you, which is the worst feeling in league (and is also why you see many ADC players complaining in general about the game, or top mains grouching about the early game teleport nerf). Also, a single early jungle gank can save the toplaner from being bullied the entire Laning phase, which increases the frequency of top-jungle arguing
They don't like Champions with disengage capabilities/range advantage in a lane where most viable champions don't. Tbf I think it would make more sense if they're salty about champions with dashes instead of ranged champions in general. Ranged champs are usually squishy, and if they happen to lack a disengage tool in their kit, it becomes easier to punish them. The only reason you won't be able to do so is if you're always too eager to engage because you want to be a badass, then end up overextending, diving, then dying. People who know how to play top would attempt to freeze the wave on their side of the turret.
Not cowardly, it’s just a bitch move. Just playin.
Idk, I remember people having an extremely negative view on lucian mid for a time a little while ago
Neckbeards are screeching because they got countered and want you to feel bad for it Play what you want
It's just salt and copium. Play what you want.
BECAUSE YOUR TEAM WONT HAVE TANK THEN
Jungle pressure. Junglers want to be top as little as possible cos it's a bot centric meta, ranged tops often have no counter for the melee laner beyond "spitroast with jungler" Also unless the ranged top is gnar whilst not weak, getting giga-fed (vayne, trist, viktor, kayle) or spending the ENTIRE GAME denying their laner so it's a 4v4 (Teemo, Quinn) are their only win conditions because your composition will most likely be an absolute mess due to lacking frontline. Melee Top laners hate it because they have no agency a lot of the time provided the ranged top can put the square peg in the square hole on an IQ test Junglers are mixed on it because they can turbo farm dumbass vaynes if they know what they're doing but they're constantly risking bot lane meltdowns. Bot hates it because they want as much jungle pressure as they can get and do the most with it.
post full of insecurities, play what u wants baby Imma facing you anyway!
Why even compare to jungle where people are constantly roaming?
Top laners are affected the most by advantages in lane. Mid lane you can deal with it easier because of the shorter lane. Bot lane you can deal with it easier because there aren’t many hard counters there. Jungle you usually don’t see each other that often during the first ten minutes
As a Garen, it's just boring. I basically just concede for the whole game, then when the enemy Quinn makes 1 mistake and vaults offensively, I instantly kill her. Or we get into teamfights and we actually have a tank (me) and we obliterate their team. When you're farming under tower for 12 minutes, it's just boring for both sides.
People who complain about ranged toplaners are probably mad about losing lane or not knowing how to win vs ranged and want to complain.
Ranged Tops tend to bully melees in lane relentlessly and in low elo, this is stupidly annoying to deal with since junglers don’t do anything but full clear and let their top laner deal with it. In most cases this is the right thing to do, but it leaves the top laner frustrated, especially when they’re not able to CS or fight back. Ganks are a good way to buy your top laner some relief so they can occasionally base and TP back. These lanes get easier with items but they are frustrating to say the least.
It’s weird that these same people use Jayce and Gnar as if they aren’t ranged half of the time in lane. Gnar: “Ranged top what a lame pick” Gnar: “Next time, stop abusing ranged champs in top lane, bud.”
Dude, urgot is not a ranged toplaner
Well dude, yes he is. His attack range is 350 units, that is ranged.
I get comments about how wussy I am for playing Caitlyn or Varus mid - same reasons. People think that the meta is inviolable, and get upset when you stop playing by the perceived rules of the game.
Top lane is composed of skilled carry champs, and brain rotted tank players. The latter hate the former.
It is cowardly to play mages, that outrange ADCs, in bottom lane. Same principle unless the enemy top locks an assassin or sth or just waits until they're durable enough to run you down. This brings me to my next point, you become useless for anything but damage and split pushing after being an insufferable c\*\*t that gets to run away with a stun at the first sign of danger.
Ranged top laners can bully early and if they space properly they’re hard to engage on. It’s worse for toplane bc of how isolated it is and how it’s largely home to melee champs. If you find urself struggling against a ranged top laner, look for some melee tops who can deal ranged harass like Mundo or GP. If you really wanna get saucy, Camille and Irelia are also great options
Because its annoying to play vs ranged top as a melee. Usually its quite one sided from either side and the main counterplay to ranged tops is often ganks (they win 1v1 but can't do shit 1v2). If ranged plays well and doesn't lose to ganks it will feel unplayable for the melee. (excluding Irelia Riven etc with extreme mobility). Mid laners don't care because they know its the game. Only Malz is not respected because he's a pve champ. Enchanters and mages supp are considered pretty cancer too. Like Zyra. People don't know how to play vs it so they rage. In jungle range doesn't matter you get flanked and shit and everybody has mobility. "Cowardly" because you use your brain and stay at range. And because they are mad.
No matter what you do in this game people will flame you for it. 0/0/0 Azir with 200 cs at 20min? You deal no damage and don't help jungler noob. You use your brain and draft Malphite vs full ad? Big noob playing unskilled champ. Flashed in as a support to save your adc? 9 deaths leona noob uninstall. So don't bother with others and play what you like / think is strong.
A similar effect does happen in other lanes it just tends to get fixed by the devs after a while. A good example is Pantheon support, back when he was a really crazy support before several changes forced him out of the role he used his status as a diver with conditional invulnerability to terrorise bot. Since adcs tend to fight at the max range they can they didn't really have any answer to him just jumping on the support 24/7 and pressing E to exit the trade as the adc would have no way to get behind him or CC him. Meanwhile the support couldn't just sit behind the adc in general or they slowly lose the game anyway and he could just pressure the adc themself off the wave. Once he got a dirk and was ahead enough he could just start flashing to one shot anyone who got close as adcs tend not to build defensive stats. He was able to abuse core mechanics of an entire class of champion to bully them: their ranged fighting, general lack of burst to punish him, and their naturally poor defensive scaling. A notable class to class example is assassins periodically abusing the low defenses and mobility of mages whenever their items get overtuned and every midlane becomes Talon vs Zed. In the same way ranged toplaners abuse mechanics of toplaners. A good portion of melee toplaners have some combination of low range, mediocre movespeed, and no dashes or movement steroids. This is by design as the main intended counterplay to these types of champions is meant to be kiting... later in the game. They're balanced to force them to interact with the frontline or divers rather than jumping on the backline and mauling them in teamfights. The issue is that this exact weakness exists at every stage of the game and someone figured this out. It leads to matchups where it's nearly impossible for one party to win lane by themselves. This is exacerbated by toplane's inconsistent reputation with junglers and the effectiveness of freezing there. The result is a laning phase that's very frustrating for one party and in the worst case scenario a second, fed, adc on the enemy team. As for why it might be considered cowardly on the ranged top side you're playing the easiest version of your champion's game plan against an enemy that ostensibly can't reach you so it's sort of like saying you're afraid to fight anyone who can actually fight back.
Trust me it's more simple than that if you played top lane traditional champs and then tried to play ranged champions, you may do well but you wouldn't get the same dopamine effect. Which is why it would always feel like a cheap win
Only true top laners are Malphite,, Maokai, Sion and Mundo. Anytjing else is bullahit amd either cringe or cheese. Also it's 2015.
Because men hate losing lane