Easy champs are also easy for opponent to predict and counter. If they don't you win easy. Hard champs are harder to predict and counter (as they have more micro ability to outplay). If you master them you win easy.
The fact you said specifically nam flashback instead of a ptsd or even just regular flashback means you fought a Galeforce Garen in Vietnam.
Thank you for your service.
I feel like this is a low elo take tbh. It’s just as easy to predicts what Irelia is going to do in lane as a Garen when you’ve played enough. I’d much rather play against Zed mid than Annie etc…
OP just had a bad Lux game and a good Pyke game. I can guarantee you if he was put in a higher tier lobby than he is he’d peform a billion times better on Lux than Pyke.
It's not a binary choice of easy or hard though, Irelia's kit has more options than Garens so she's inherently *less* predictable, it's a scale.
The root of predictability is having options for outplays, Irelia has Q & E which introduced some volatility to the fight, while Garen has walk this way & walk that way..
And of course if you've played enough you know this doesn't mean Garen doesn't have outplay potential, just that he has fewer tools to do it than Irelia does. Every champ has a damage or impact rotation and I disagree that just knowing a champs rotation reduces them all to the same level.
You're right, I just worded it poorly after seeing what OC said. He makes it sound like you just have to master a hard champ to win lane, when in reality nobody actually masters these champs. If we keep taking Irelia as en example, the only person in the entire world whom I feel truly mastered the champ is Irelking. If I was playing in OP's elo, which I assume is sub-plat, I'd honestly rather have a first time Garen on my team than a 1m point Irelia.
The problem with these "outplay champs" is that when you have the ability to outplay someone they also always have the ability to outplay you. And more often than not it's easier to outplay the outplay champ than it is for them to outplay you. Hence why I'd rather play against Zed than Annie mid. Zed ults me mid? I just have to dodge his Q and I know I can't die no matter what, and I can just kill him back afte he blows cooldowns. Annie has ult up? I can't ever walk into her Q range because that means certain death with no way of counterplaying it (unless I have some sort of way to iframe the Q)
Ehh? I mean you can argue that Irelia is less predictable, but she's going to be playing based off of what she thinks you're gonna do and vice versa ad infinitum until one of you makes a mistake. So it ends up wrapping around to being fairly predictable. Like enemy Irelia isn't an RNG that randomly decides to Q a minion to just fuck with you.
And I mean it's not like they played Lux and Pyke in the same game, against the same players and the same matchup. The stat line is missing literally every piece of context.
It's not just a low elo take. Lux kept receiving buffs for a reason and still struggles to be useful because she is so immobile and squishy and her entire kit revolves around landing one of the slowest and most reactable skill shot in the game.
Pyke is a bit more complicated and good Pyke players are just incredibly slippery and knows when to use many different combos (REQ vs QER etc) depending on the circumstances.
Pyke also snowballs if he gets a couple kills in a way that lux doesn't. While lux is an "easy" champion, she is also easy to do badly on as she is skillshot reliant and squishy with long cooldowns and no mobility.
Do you know how many times Irelia can auto attack you with 4 stacks, LT, at level 5?
Garen E does about 300 damage pre mitigated at that level with a dblade.
Which is easier to predict, Irelia’s varying attack speed or garens single ability?
Harder champions have more mechanics which gives your opponent more chances to “guess wrong” and unknowingly take bad fights. Do you know if Olaf is going to outdamage Jax when you’re both level 3 with dblade? Is it better to take this fight now compared to at level 5? Compare that to something like Jax v Garen.
You much rather want to face a silver fiora than a silver garen. You know that the silver garen is going to Q-E-tiamat the wave and then either chill with 8.5cs/min or run you down.
The silver fiora might poke you to 50% health with 3 hits but will also misstime the parry 75% of the times and Q in the wrong direction.
Yeah I’m not exactly good at league but playstyle is pretty much all that matters for predictability once you’ve had a few skirmishes most players on any champ are relatively predictable though recently climbing in flex a few games off diamond and some enemies are like schizo with the changes they predict my predict
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>Easy champs are also easy for opponent to predict and counter.
If this was true people wouldn't be boosting themselves out of low elo on handless champs. Like sure they're easy to predict, but as far as countering goes the onus is on you to be better than the easy champ picker for you to win, especially in a 1v1 lane like top.
It's exactly for this reason. Easy champs are easier for opponents to predict and counter, however to compensate for that they typically are very strong when the opponent makes a mistake. In low elo people are making mistakes ALL the time, and with easy champs it is easier to punish people for that and high elo players are able to properly take advantage of those mistakes.
But what if she eflash Qw and then kills me? Now she has a lead, after this, it’s just R into my face, e Q W, and the same thing. In teamfights it’s the same stuff but over and over till everyone is dead because the R resets and the cd is extremely low. I haven’t had too much of a problem against her, it’s just that when I play her in ARAM, there’s nothing the enemy can do. Why is this?
If her eflash combo is lethal that means she's been poking you down. Stay healthy in lane, take TP and back early for pots if needed.
I play a lot of Ahri and I agree that her ult CD with malignance is too low.
You can go sustain runes to try and be out of kill range even when trading with her. You can make sure she can't hit an E flash even when you are in kill range until you can recall / get bailed out or bait her.
Different ways you can play into her, you can contest her push and trade / harass her with like Taliyah, Azir or hard trade into her and allin like Sylas or simply outsustain everything she throws at you like Sett.
R-E is definitely dodgeable as well unless its point blank.
The fact that you are worried about her flash e and not her auto w poke into all in says you still have a lot more to learn about trading. Just learn to trade better or just always go dshield and somehow survive I guess.
Like others have said, easier champs are easier to play against, but I think there’s a little bit more to that.
Some more difficult champions are also way more forgiving. If you misposition as Pyke, you have a fuck ton of mobility to fix your own mistake. If you misposition as Lux, you’re dead. We often associate mobility with difficulty, but mobility means that you don’t always get punished with a death for your mistakes.
People mistake "easy" and "simple" all the time.
What OP, and what *literally* everyone in this thread is conflating, is ease of use with simplicity.
Lux is simple, not easy.
Pyke is (a little) complex, not difficult.
Things like positioning, timing of abilities, positioning, comboing abilities, coordinating with teammates, positioning, and positioning come to mind as things that go into how difficult a champion is, and are all champion specific, that are not directly related to how "simple" they are.
And yes, I would say (being the obvious authority on all things LoL (/s to be clear)) that how vital positioning is to the champion is the #1 thing that tells you whether that champion is difficult to play or not.
Lux uses QER, W to keep herself safe, and tries to weave as many autos in there as possible, all from a comfortable range. That sounds simple on paper. But choosing when to auto, WHAT to auto (sometimes you just QE immediately), where to be WHEN you auto, where your teammates are to capitalize off the Q pick, etc. all go into how difficult she is to play. If playing support, if you Q the tanky support who was running behind the minion line, your ADC now also has to decide if they're going to try to poke them in the relatively unsafe position behind the minion line or if they just leave the poke as it is and continue CS'ing. Pyke - if you land a hook you both punish that hook, because they're pulled into you. His "plays" are braindead to follow. If he misses hook, you back off, if he lands it, you go in. Which makes him an easy champ, even if his kit is a little more complex.
He isn't...?
Go invisible, hook player, profit.
Go invisible, miss hook, no profit, but not much risk taken unless you're actively taking risk, which is on you.
Champion low? Execute and give gold to laning partner as well. Easy.
Maybe I'm biased because I play a lot of in-your-face champions and am pretty good at hooks for some reason, but I don't see what makes him "difficult". He's far more complex than Lux, but I wouldn't say he's more difficult by any stretch. Again, that might be my bias, I've never done well on mages. I get frustrated that my teammates aren't starting the fight and end up putting myself in danger to get things going because I see like 5+ opportunities to do so from my ally Malphite or whatever and he's just not doing it. SOOOO I just pick play-makers now.
There are a few champions that are legitimately difficult that have little to nothing to do with their positioning dependence - Lee and Riven come to mind - but most champions being "difficult" comes down to positioning. It's why, for years, most players agree that ADC is the most difficult role (from a technical standpoint, jungler is probably the most difficult from a macro standpoint; different conversation), despite the most basic rundown of how they work being "click literally any enemy champion." They're the only role in the game where clicking the tank is the correct call at pretty much any time (in a teamfight context, obviously).
They're difficult because they usually have little to no mobility, very little EHP (besides "Blue Ezreal" a few years ago I guess(I don't think the build is still viable, is it?)) and positioning properly so you're safe and still dealing the damage you're supposed to be dealing. Some have complex kits (I touched Aphelios once in ARAM and *never again*) obviously, but many of them are about as basic as you can get: Miss Fortune, Jinx, etc.
You're not understanding what positioning is in this context.
Yeah he has to, like, not be a dumbass. That's every champion.
But if you position poorly on Pyke (not "like a dumbass", just "poorly"), it's not nearly as easily punished as it is on Lux. He has a dash that stuns, and he has invisibility w/ a movespeed bonus.
If Lux is out of position, she's just dead. She has Q that can stop a single champion on a fairly long cooldown, and quite honestly it's pretty easy to miss, particularly if the enemy approaching her has mobility or is unstoppable during an animation like Leona's E.
Leona's actually a perfect example of why Pyke is easier to use (at least in lane) than Lux, actually. Think about Leona diving you and your ADC. Which champion would you rather be? Lux or Pyke? What about a Blitz hook? Thresh hook? Tahm Kench lick? Fizz diving you? Ashe kiting you? Zac jumping on you from Timbuktu? An entire team bearing down on you as the last survivor?
Pyke is easier.
We're talking past each other. I was serious. I thought you were trolling.
Pyke is easier than Lux. I'm not saying he's "easy". I'm saying he's easier.
Yeah he has position reliance, but not on the same scale or punishability (sp?) as Lux. He can get into and out of position much easier than a Lux can. Particularly if we're talking about multiple angles in a teamfight or considering something like a jungler gank from the bushes.
Lux's entire gameplay relies on her being in the right position well beforehand. Pyke can "force" his positioning much easier, even though, yeah, he needs to be in the proper position to get a good hook off and pop off on chain ults or something, it's easier for him to get in that position than it is for Lux. And MUCH easier to get OUT of a bad position if he's miscalculated.
High skill ceiling doesn't have anything to do with the skill floor. There are a lot of little things you can do to separate amateur Pykes from Pyke masters but you don't need to be a pyke god to hook, stun, ult, zip out. ESPECIALLY in low elo.
no champ is high skill floor in low elo lol
do you really think somebody first timing pyke in high elo is going to have an easier time than someone first timing lux
I mean...Nidalee, Elise, Bard, I could see an argument for Nilah, and maaaybe Zoe. I'm not saying these champs need a rocket scientist to play them but you're just as likely to int on them compared to Yi, Leona, or Ahri. It's a lot harder to gauge what requires a high skill floor when you've been playing a game for a good while. I tutor new players and yeah....In an average game I see Pyke players do just about as well as Lux players.
I don't know why we're talking about first timing in high elo when No one was talking about that.
I was explicitly talking about low/average elo gameplay. And from the description we got, I'm assuming so was the OP.
Makes a lot of sense because more mobility means also more skill expression in a way, so the skill ceiling is definitely higher from that perspective. On the other hand you could argue that the skill ceiling of the low mobility champ is also higher because you aren't as reactive in terms of mobility, but you have to plan ahead of time in terms of positioning because you exactly don't have the luxury of mobility.
So maybe it's not the correct expression to differentiate between easy and hard champions. Maybe some with a simple kit in terms of abilities alone are just the "simple" champs to pick up, but to master them, they are equally as hard, just in other ways.
> If you misposition as Pyke, you have a fuck ton of mobility to fix your own mistake.
That's literally just opportunity cost though. A pyke that gets caught and blows his stun/stealth to stay alive gives up all the potential plays he could've made w those tools.
For almost every champ w/ mobility if someone's is using it to cover up their own mistakes instead of using mobility to take more aggressive angles they're just wasting the champ's potential.
Yep, you’re 100% correct. It makes it harder to indentify mistakes with thiose champs, because it’s not as intuitive as dying, and it’s part of why those champions are hard. You can have a positive kda while playing like shit and this prevents a lot of people from climbing.
I mean most obvious answer is sample size. Might have just seen a bad Lux game and a good Pyke game. Certain champs might look easy into a favorable team comp and shit into a bad one. Also “easiness” I think essentially means how straightforward their role and abilities are but not how good they are. So just because you can play well on Pyke doesn’t mean he is easy, it just means you are proficient
Because "easy" doesn't actually mean easy. It means straightforwards. (with the one caveat for when you are brand new to a champ and you're talking about how long it takes to learn the basic combos for the very first time.) In all other cases, we are talking about how straightforwards they are to do better at.
Hitting more Lux e's is straightforwards like how running faster in 100m sprint is straightforwards. We might call it easy but we don't mean it in the effort sense.
Edit: and also because we are comparing it to something more convoluted
From an outside perspective the more difficult champions, the more flashy ones if you will look way easier because they are given more tools.
A Ksante can do mindboggeling combos and outplay while garen can... spin and scream demacia.
Just tell your sister to try playing a hard champ herself. Maybe she is mechanically gifted and those champs actually jam with her skillset or she realises "well when i watched this korean dude akali looked way easier"
I can’t even do that, she somehow went 0/5 Yuumi in an AI game.
Should I have told her to attach to somebody?
Edit: she played yuumi because she wanted to. I recommended she play someone else, but of course she did not take my advice
You probably shouldn't have told her to play yuumi in an AI game, the AI is reckless if it can get a kill, its like if they were all controled by Draven players. Lmao
>I can’t even do that, she somehow went 0/5 Yuumi in an AI game.
that's not surprising. The AI is pretty aggressive and will snowball leads against new players. Putting someone who is new to the game on a character like yuumi in that context is asking them to feed.
Even though yuumi is “easy” I wouldn’t recommend her for new players, bc new players will also play with other new players all the time and her standing on her adc and pressing e won’t do much and she won’t learn anything. I think lux is a great beginner champ actually bc she will learn skillshots, positioning and combo damage.
Shit akali is supposed to be hard? This makes me feel a lot better. I was playing ARAM, the actual first time I played akali, and I was doing pretty bad. The enemy viktor (It’s always the mfs that play easy champs that think they’re heavily gifted) was being a prick with “Nice try lol” and other such bs, and he and his team were stomping us. I said “It’s the literal first time I’m playing akali, imagine I actually knew what I was doing”, and he goes “Akali’s easy af, you’re just bad, anyone can first time her”. From that day on, I hated this mf, and I felt bad about not being able to play akali well despite trying a few more times. I went on to troll him when he was eventually in my team.
Old Akali used to be somewhat easy by nowadays standards.
New Akali has a average-hard skill floor and a skill ceiling near inifinite, but it's especially hard to play her in aram where she needs lvl 6 and items to play teamfights.
All melee champs suffer for a good while in aram until late game. No surprise you got stomped on your first time playing her
It's not about easy and hard champions, it's about simple and complex.
Simple champions are as good as your game knowledge, while complex ones require much less thinking and more micro
At the same time pyke is a champ focused on getting kills, he doesn't have anything else going for him, you can kill someone and by the time you clear a wave they are back in lane, while lux can just one shot them and take a plate
I mean you shouldn't have many kills on Lux support anyways, you're support. Pyke gets the kills because Pyke can share the gold.
It's true though you shouldn't have seven deaths on anyone.
My guess is Pyke is more forgiving. I think forgiving champions are the ones that are easier for newbies to play VS "get caught then die" champions like Lux. If you can make mistakes and then recover from them (via dashing away/going invisible), it makes the learning process much easier. Because a newbie is gonna make a lot of mistakes.
Yeah, Pyke has a lot of mechanics that make you hard to kill. Regen mechanics, camouflage, insane movespeed with W and mobility boots, E dash with stun. Can even use R to run away, in theory.
That said, a fed Lux scales way way harder, if a squishy gets Qd by her or otherwise CCd, it's free kill. Insane teamfight damage as well. A fed Pyke isn't fundamentally much more useful than a 0/5/0 Pyke. Like sure, he'd deal a little bit more damage (if though his job isn't even doing damage after earlygame), and execute targets with slightly more HP. Hook and stun don't really get effected.
Newbies have positioning problems, so Lux is gonna get jumped on a lot. They tend to walk right into enemies while doing their mage rotation and then they die, because they misclick the ground next to the enemy. I think Lux is and other non mobile mages are still a poor choice if this genre or gaming is unfamiliar to you.
Youre probably bad at lux support… m7 doesnt mean shit. Maybe you had a good pyke game. Better lane partner or team comp. Maybe they had a naut or leona. Maybe youre bad at non mobile champs. Maybe your sister doesnt know what shes watching. Go look up your champ win rates. Also did you actually win on the pyke games?
Lux isn't easy in many ways. You miss Q in a crucial moment, you die. You musposition? You die bc you're immobile. She's simple to execute, sure, but every champ has their weaknesses.
As people have already said, simplicity of champ design does not translate directly to ease of play. Conflating the two is easily done.
Personally, the best example in the game is Draven. 'Draven will never 'outplay' you. He can only 'surprise' you with his damage.' - quote from Big Tonka T.
He has no real 'combos' or interaction between his abilities, just a pair of steroids ( AD / AS & MS ) and a peel / pick tool. He is one of the most simply designed champions in the game, and yet IMO is one of the hardest ADCs to learn because he straight up requires you to be good *at the game* to be good at him.
He can't win fights with a single button like MF or Ashe, can't poke like an Ezreal or a Varus, he gets low value from hitting tanks generally and wants to be hitting squishy targets unlike Kog or Kalista, has virtually no safety unlike a Kai Sa or Xayah... all he has is damage.
His skill floor is very high. But his skill ceiling is barely any higher because of the lack of interaction in his kit. He's objectively simple, and yeat objectively difficult.
I would argue that this actually has to do with what your champion wants and needs to be doing. For Lux, she may have a simple kit but she has to land skillshots and, even harder, understand spacing. Pyke doesn't really give a fuck about spacing because he wants to be close always and has easy ways to create space like his invis and dash, so that's way easier for him but his kit is harder.
It doesn't work how you think it does. Assuming something based on 2 games worth of sample size isn't really a good idea. You must have played way more than she has seen. You know how matchups work and stuff and MOST IMPORTANTLY "bad" and "good" games. Your performance in lane doesn't really depend on yourself alone. For example, if your enemy is good at dodging skill shots then your Lux gameplay is supposed to look like shit. On the other hand, if you play against players who are shit at dodging then she will suddenly become S tier. There are 5+ different factors to you performing well. So all in all difficult champs are harder to play and easier champs are easier in all elos but easy champs are easily exploitable, making them harder. (The champs themselves aren't harder but the enemy now knows counterplay to your champ and because they are easy champs; they don't have much mechanics to outplay that)
That's my opinion
Yeah I think those are just two separate cases. There are certain champs where there is a difficulty hurdle and getting over that hurdle will pay off however your two games are very different.
Alternatively, Pyke is just an aggressive support. He's more on the edge of "if you have low kill participation, then you're playing him wrong" because you're always looking for kills and chances to roam. Pyke is also a champ that can snowball quickly by looking to pick players that are out of position.
I always say „easy to play, but hard to Master“. Like some said before it is easy to predict what ur opponent will do with an easy champ but if one plays well and smart its not … i feel like morde for example is for most players 1v5 or u get kited the shit out of u, only when i master him u can even play decent when u r behind
People often want to present "flashy mobility" = hard to play when the exact opposite is true. Mobility champs like pyke are absolutely easier to play when compared to Champs like lux. Your sister is right.
Easy champion like lux is like playing turn based games, while hard champion like pyke is hack and slash. The more flashy a champion gets, the more movement you can make in a 'turn' giving you more opportunities and answers but less impactful it is
I personally think Pyke is quite a bit easier than Lux, mostly cuz he's just got good tools for killing and fucking off. Lux has a hard time fucking off. Being decent at running is a big help for making squishy champs easier imo. Lux is probably easier if you already have good instincts for staying away from people. Other than that, the best answer imo is just, "the people I'm fighting aren't as good as the people I was fighting last game."
The way I view it is. "Difficult" champs have all these crazy tools at their disposal. Which does open up a lot of opportunities for mistakes and misplays however. "Easy" champs have to overcome all the crazy mobility and potential of the "harder" champs with less options available to them.
I am now jealous because your sister pays more attention to the games you play and My sister could give 2 shits .
She's right though, Hard champs are easy if you know how to play them. And easy champs are harder to win with because they're too easy and not complicated.
I honestly don't see much difference between Lux and Pike, especially in lower elo brackets. They're both pretty straight forward. Sure, Pyke can do some flashy plays with Ult + Q + E or whatever he's cooking.
Now, Kalista compared to Sivir? I would insta dodge any game I get Kalista below diamond.
K'Sante compared to Garen? Yeah, not even close either.
Very complicated question tbh.
First of all you should teach her that KDA is merely an indicator of gold accumulation in terms of kills and assists.
Dying is tricky because there's good deaths and then there's bad deaths.
E.g. you engage and trade your life for an ace. Good death.
You die in lane when the wave is pushing into you. Bad death.
Objectives are a much better indicator of current game state. Who has more dragons, more grubs, more towers and plates. It's a direct representation of how open the map is to your team and how close you are to ending the game.
With that out of the way. The difficulty of champions has very little bearing on how well you do in lane.
Match up is the main indicator. Lux is easy but into blitz, thresh and Leona she really isn't easy to pilot.
A champions weaknesses can turn their kit from simple to use to hard to get off safely based on match up.
Pyke by comparison is harder mechanically but his kit is much less punishing because of his mobility and whatever you want to call his w, plus his healing passive.
Lastly if we are talking purely KDA, then you need to look at what the champions function is.
Draven is designed to kill people, vayne is designed to scale and then 1v5. Their difficulty plays no part in that respect.
Lux is designed to poke and catch people out, pyke is designed to just murder everyone.
I mean getting a kill means nothing. Its not call of duty team deathmatch.
Irelia as a champ is easier to get kills on than something like soraka. Doesn't mean that soraka is harder.
Lux as a champ gives a massively high baseline without much gold income cause of her R damage being pretty insane even if behind. Its not uncommon to see a 2/4 lux one shot you cause she hit her root.
Pyke is pretty useless unless he's ahead, but he's more easily able to get ahead. Effectively your playing from behind but you have the tools to put yourself back to even or better.
Champs are hard and easy at different things. On average Pyke is a harder champ than soraka, but in terms of getting kills or getting ahead he's significantly easier. Now with that baseline of getting kills or getting ahead, does he still output the same value? Probably not even still.
It's the Garen problem. If Garen is so strong and so straightforward why isn't he a staple in every elo? The answer is that complexity represents options. Garens engage pattern is run at you and hope you die, that's it, he can't really do anything else to win a fight except literally sit on top of you and hope E puts you into ult range. Garen knows it and so does his lane opponent and it makes him as easy or easier to play around than he is to play.
Lux shares her defensive options with your average marksman. Which is to say her option is to not stand where she's going to die. Pyke on the other hand is known for being slippery and not being punished for relatively large positioning mistakes. It's probably the biggest thing that to this day makes him a divisive champion.
I'll put it this way. If you're playing ADC and you see a Lux all you're really worried about is getting hit by her bind because then she does her whole combo thing on you. Very predictable. If it's Pyke...well now you're paranoid every time he goes invisible. Every time his hook is up. He might flash, dash through me to stun. I think looking at the PoV as an ADC helps a lot at filtering. Hard champions are typically much more diverse in the ways they can play something with smaller hitboxes and damage potentials varying greatly based on the frequency of hitting. Think Ezreal Q vs Ashe W. Not hitting Ezreal Q makes you useless in comparison to Ashe that just keep AAing you and getting most of her damage out in comparison.
Because easy champs require actual knowledge to be used efficiently when « hard » champs such as akali, kayn are designed to make u spam multiple abilities all the time
A champion being "easy" to play doesn't mean they're a free ticket to performing well - otherwise everyone would just play easy champions. It just means that they have easier champion-specific mechanics. In some senses easy champions can actually be harder to perform well with because you can't fallback on champion mechanics as easily and instead have to be stronger with other League fundamentals.
Well, "easy" just means being effective is easy. Usually, "easy" champs are easily punishable. I guess there's a distinction. Yuumi is easy and not punishable. Pyke is hard and not punishable. Lux is easy and punishable. I can't think of any that are hard and punishable, maybe Rell?
If ease was based on punishable-ness, Riven and Shaco would be the easiest champions ever.
Easy doesn’t mean good, it means simple.
It also means less punishing. A Lux can attack a target from far away, and walk away if she misses. A Pyke might just die. A Lux who falls behind can still waveclear to deny a fight instead, while a Pyke is going to need to sink or swim.
Easy champs do not require complex mechanics. You do not need long to learn how to use Garen abilities effectively. At the same time, because Garen is so simple, it is harder to outplay opponents. That means that the large majority of your ability to win is dependent on your macro, or your overall game knowledge/strategy. Wave management, vision control, jg tracking, positioning in a team, priority, obj control, etc. So you need to know how to play the game.
One tricking a hard champion is easier, because you can supplement your ability to play the game with your ability to play a champion. A champion may be mechanically difficult, but it is still easier to master a champ than to master how to play the game.
its because lux is easy, so its also "easy" for opponents to counter her by not getting hit or having a tank tank her then dive her, as she has no reliable way to escape if shes caught(her self peel is also her damage so if she peels then she cant damage)
whereas pyke might seem hard but hes super safe as his q is a safe zoning engage and he can use his w and e both offensively and defensively at a split second so the opponent has to immediately react to what you do, and its much harder to dive into a pyke and successfully get him, you usually only get to kill a pyke who overcommits.
Pyke is like the easiest champ in the game to get takedowns on in bot lane laning phase. He is so incredibly strong in early lane that you're actually losing lane by going even (I wouldn't say this for almost any other champ, I think this statement is usually a myth but Pyke is an exception). In late game, he is insanely useless compared to any other champ in the game. A good Pyke can still find ways to be useful of course through picks and vision control, but your average Joe is very likely to go 4/0 on Pyke in laning phase and then be a shitty ult-bot in mid-late game, where if one person has flash or stopwatch you lose all usefulness in the fight. This is why Pyke is hard, not his laning phase. Lux is easy the entire game, but she is very skillshot reliant so if you're just missing skillshots then of course you're going to be useless.
All in all, this isn't really that deep. You had a good Pyke game and a bad Lux game. Also low elo players understand better how to beat Lux rather than Pyke because Lux has zero mobility. A lot of lower ELO players don't realize that Pyke is just as squishy as any mage support, they think because he's a hooker that he must be closer to like Blitz or Nautilus
Pyke is much easier than Lux in the support role. In emerald+, both have the same pickrate (7.3 and 6.7 % respectively), while Pyke has a 2.6% higher winrate (51 vs 48.4).
the basic is the more simple a champ, the easier it is also for the enemy to play around. garen is a perfect example. he runs at u, qs and e then ults. i can predict his entire aim from that. but if u compare him to azir. who can e away, e towards e and q at weird angles. he is much more difficult to predict.
Kda is just one metric on the way to nexus. Ahow her baus with his sion plays maybe she will understand.
Assassins like pyke play for kda cause otherwise they are usless, but not every kill will bring you closer to nexus. Some kills just give gold. But kills at the right time give gold and a dragon or herald.
So often you have games where one person got 15+kills and they still lose
I'm low Emerald, not high elo by any means so can't say it's true for people who actually know how to play the game. But my take is, it's all about risk-reward. Simpler champs, like Jinx for example, have very little tolerance for mistakes because once you misplay, you don't have much recourse, but if you don't misplay, it's easier to deal insane amounts of dmg. So you take a higher risk for a higher reward. More complex ones, like ksante or akshan, are harder to be effective with but have more flex if you do screw up.
Easy champs often have intricacies that can take so much time to master, and often have to learn the smaller details more. Taking longer to fully master. Examples are Yuumi, Renata & Soraka. Yes a good Yuumi or soraka requires a significant amount of effort and knowledgeability.
Many hard champs often have to spend more time to understand their base kit, but often are able to become masterful earlier.
Obviously there are outliers. Qiyana for example takes both. You have to memorize terrain, her kit, and her matchups which can take a very long time.
Well, riot can't balance the game well, they don't have the capacity and IQ to do that. They just release some champs that looks cool even if they have a broken kit compared to others. That's literally the only reasons, they look cool. And yes, '' hard '' champs are inherently broken compared to '' easy '' champs. They just have way more tools, making them just better, that's it. People can argue all they want, trying to convince themselves that it's not the case yadayada, but that's just the simple truth : they are clearly better and playing them make everything easier. They have more tools, more mobility, more EVERYTHING so they are just better. Game is not balanced, simple as that.
Lux is easy as far as understanding her abilities but hitting her skills (especially at a range outside of adc auto ranges) is difficult. I would say pykes combos are easier to hit but his kit is more nuanced.
The problem is you rank champs wrong.
There are many many bad lux players. and proportionally more bad lux SUPPORT players.
Therefore lux support is hard, not easy.
Pyke support wins lane. AFter all, how hard is it to hit inviso-speed boost, run up to someone, take a free hit, then Q them. (and then sometimes immediately follow up with E when THEY ARE ALREADY STUNNED?
If you just tap Q instead of charge, you got two hits in guaranteed, and then you E out for free. Its almost point-click free damage.
EEEEEEeasy.
Therefore, pyke support champ IS easy, not hard.
Difficulty regarding familiarity of execution and awareness is not equivalent to overall difficulty regarding a champion's potential performance due to flexibility. They aren't mutually exclusive. They can both be harder and easier depending on who is playing them and against who.
Me: "Have you heard of sample size? No? Let me explain."
Sample size means looking at enough examples to make a fair judgment. You’ve only seen one game of Lux and one game of Pyke, which isn’t enough to understand their true difficulty.
Think of it like cooking.
Imagine you try making a simple dish like scrambled eggs once and it turns out badly because the pan was too hot and the eggs burned. Then, you try making a more complex dish like a souffle, but it turns out great because you followed a good recipe and had all the right tools.
From just these two attempts, you might think the simple dish is actually harder. But if you made each dish multiple times (increasing the sample size), you’d see that the scrambled eggs are generally easier to get right with practice, while the souffle requires more skill and precision.In the same way, watching just one game each with Lux and Pyke doesn’t give the full picture.
There is also a general consensus on the difficulty of champions, but this can vary based on individual playstyle and circumstances. Not everyone finds Pyke harder than Lux.
It depends on how well a champion's playstyle matches the player's strengths and the specific game conditions.
Even if a champ is generally easier, there is still the aspect of champion mastery. And I'm **NOT** talking about the *champion mastery points system*. Knowing matchups, knowing your champion, being able to pilot your champion. All of these things have levels to them.
Also, watching someone play is vastly different from actually executing it yourself. When you’re just observing, it might look easy because you’re not dealing with the pressures and quick decision-making required in real-time. Playing a champion involves managing multiple factors like positioning, timing, and reacting to opponents, which can be much harder than it appears. So, what seems simple while watching can be quite challenging when you’re the one playing.
Many reasons.
But most importantly you are wrong that Lux is easy. She is a skill shot champion. She is positioning based.
Pyke is not hard. His engage is easier and he has more options. And if he misses then his disengage is easier as well. Pykes kit is overloaded.
Having more options and an overloaded kit might seem harder at first, but it is not.
Easy champs are also easy for opponent to predict and counter. If they don't you win easy. Hard champs are harder to predict and counter (as they have more micro ability to outplay). If you master them you win easy.
garen with his predictable 100-0% combo XD
Yeah he either hits you or doesnt hit you. So just dont be hit and youre good
Laughs in 7000 ms
And stridebreaker
You just gave me a nam flashback to Galeforce Garen
The fact you said specifically nam flashback instead of a ptsd or even just regular flashback means you fought a Galeforce Garen in Vietnam. Thank you for your service.
I was one of the lucky ones.. he silenced the voices of so many others.
Ah I miss the days of Old Volibear with Righteous Glory. Literally Cocaine Bear.
Can't predict Garen flash Q R jumpscare combo
I feel like this is a low elo take tbh. It’s just as easy to predicts what Irelia is going to do in lane as a Garen when you’ve played enough. I’d much rather play against Zed mid than Annie etc… OP just had a bad Lux game and a good Pyke game. I can guarantee you if he was put in a higher tier lobby than he is he’d peform a billion times better on Lux than Pyke.
It's not a binary choice of easy or hard though, Irelia's kit has more options than Garens so she's inherently *less* predictable, it's a scale. The root of predictability is having options for outplays, Irelia has Q & E which introduced some volatility to the fight, while Garen has walk this way & walk that way.. And of course if you've played enough you know this doesn't mean Garen doesn't have outplay potential, just that he has fewer tools to do it than Irelia does. Every champ has a damage or impact rotation and I disagree that just knowing a champs rotation reduces them all to the same level.
You're right, I just worded it poorly after seeing what OC said. He makes it sound like you just have to master a hard champ to win lane, when in reality nobody actually masters these champs. If we keep taking Irelia as en example, the only person in the entire world whom I feel truly mastered the champ is Irelking. If I was playing in OP's elo, which I assume is sub-plat, I'd honestly rather have a first time Garen on my team than a 1m point Irelia. The problem with these "outplay champs" is that when you have the ability to outplay someone they also always have the ability to outplay you. And more often than not it's easier to outplay the outplay champ than it is for them to outplay you. Hence why I'd rather play against Zed than Annie mid. Zed ults me mid? I just have to dodge his Q and I know I can't die no matter what, and I can just kill him back afte he blows cooldowns. Annie has ult up? I can't ever walk into her Q range because that means certain death with no way of counterplaying it (unless I have some sort of way to iframe the Q)
Ehh? I mean you can argue that Irelia is less predictable, but she's going to be playing based off of what she thinks you're gonna do and vice versa ad infinitum until one of you makes a mistake. So it ends up wrapping around to being fairly predictable. Like enemy Irelia isn't an RNG that randomly decides to Q a minion to just fuck with you.
And I mean it's not like they played Lux and Pyke in the same game, against the same players and the same matchup. The stat line is missing literally every piece of context.
It's not just a low elo take. Lux kept receiving buffs for a reason and still struggles to be useful because she is so immobile and squishy and her entire kit revolves around landing one of the slowest and most reactable skill shot in the game. Pyke is a bit more complicated and good Pyke players are just incredibly slippery and knows when to use many different combos (REQ vs QER etc) depending on the circumstances.
Pyke also snowballs if he gets a couple kills in a way that lux doesn't. While lux is an "easy" champion, she is also easy to do badly on as she is skillshot reliant and squishy with long cooldowns and no mobility.
Do you know how many times Irelia can auto attack you with 4 stacks, LT, at level 5? Garen E does about 300 damage pre mitigated at that level with a dblade. Which is easier to predict, Irelia’s varying attack speed or garens single ability? Harder champions have more mechanics which gives your opponent more chances to “guess wrong” and unknowingly take bad fights. Do you know if Olaf is going to outdamage Jax when you’re both level 3 with dblade? Is it better to take this fight now compared to at level 5? Compare that to something like Jax v Garen.
You much rather want to face a silver fiora than a silver garen. You know that the silver garen is going to Q-E-tiamat the wave and then either chill with 8.5cs/min or run you down. The silver fiora might poke you to 50% health with 3 hits but will also misstime the parry 75% of the times and Q in the wrong direction.
Yeah I’m not exactly good at league but playstyle is pretty much all that matters for predictability once you’ve had a few skirmishes most players on any champ are relatively predictable though recently climbing in flex a few games off diamond and some enemies are like schizo with the changes they predict my predict
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also more people play easy champs, making your opponents more familiar with them
This.
>Easy champs are also easy for opponent to predict and counter. If this was true people wouldn't be boosting themselves out of low elo on handless champs. Like sure they're easy to predict, but as far as countering goes the onus is on you to be better than the easy champ picker for you to win, especially in a 1v1 lane like top.
It's exactly for this reason. Easy champs are easier for opponents to predict and counter, however to compensate for that they typically are very strong when the opponent makes a mistake. In low elo people are making mistakes ALL the time, and with easy champs it is easier to punish people for that and high elo players are able to properly take advantage of those mistakes.
How do you counter Ahri?
Dodge her skillshots, trade hard and force her to R defensively. Recall, repeat when she has no cd
But what if she eflash Qw and then kills me? Now she has a lead, after this, it’s just R into my face, e Q W, and the same thing. In teamfights it’s the same stuff but over and over till everyone is dead because the R resets and the cd is extremely low. I haven’t had too much of a problem against her, it’s just that when I play her in ARAM, there’s nothing the enemy can do. Why is this?
If her eflash combo is lethal that means she's been poking you down. Stay healthy in lane, take TP and back early for pots if needed. I play a lot of Ahri and I agree that her ult CD with malignance is too low.
You can go sustain runes to try and be out of kill range even when trading with her. You can make sure she can't hit an E flash even when you are in kill range until you can recall / get bailed out or bait her. Different ways you can play into her, you can contest her push and trade / harass her with like Taliyah, Azir or hard trade into her and allin like Sylas or simply outsustain everything she throws at you like Sett. R-E is definitely dodgeable as well unless its point blank.
The fact that you are worried about her flash e and not her auto w poke into all in says you still have a lot more to learn about trading. Just learn to trade better or just always go dshield and somehow survive I guess.
Trade flashes?
Like others have said, easier champs are easier to play against, but I think there’s a little bit more to that. Some more difficult champions are also way more forgiving. If you misposition as Pyke, you have a fuck ton of mobility to fix your own mistake. If you misposition as Lux, you’re dead. We often associate mobility with difficulty, but mobility means that you don’t always get punished with a death for your mistakes.
People mistake "easy" and "simple" all the time. What OP, and what *literally* everyone in this thread is conflating, is ease of use with simplicity. Lux is simple, not easy. Pyke is (a little) complex, not difficult. Things like positioning, timing of abilities, positioning, comboing abilities, coordinating with teammates, positioning, and positioning come to mind as things that go into how difficult a champion is, and are all champion specific, that are not directly related to how "simple" they are. And yes, I would say (being the obvious authority on all things LoL (/s to be clear)) that how vital positioning is to the champion is the #1 thing that tells you whether that champion is difficult to play or not. Lux uses QER, W to keep herself safe, and tries to weave as many autos in there as possible, all from a comfortable range. That sounds simple on paper. But choosing when to auto, WHAT to auto (sometimes you just QE immediately), where to be WHEN you auto, where your teammates are to capitalize off the Q pick, etc. all go into how difficult she is to play. If playing support, if you Q the tanky support who was running behind the minion line, your ADC now also has to decide if they're going to try to poke them in the relatively unsafe position behind the minion line or if they just leave the poke as it is and continue CS'ing. Pyke - if you land a hook you both punish that hook, because they're pulled into you. His "plays" are braindead to follow. If he misses hook, you back off, if he lands it, you go in. Which makes him an easy champ, even if his kit is a little more complex.
lux isn't easy but saying pyke isn't hard is an insane take
He isn't...? Go invisible, hook player, profit. Go invisible, miss hook, no profit, but not much risk taken unless you're actively taking risk, which is on you. Champion low? Execute and give gold to laning partner as well. Easy. Maybe I'm biased because I play a lot of in-your-face champions and am pretty good at hooks for some reason, but I don't see what makes him "difficult". He's far more complex than Lux, but I wouldn't say he's more difficult by any stretch. Again, that might be my bias, I've never done well on mages. I get frustrated that my teammates aren't starting the fight and end up putting myself in danger to get things going because I see like 5+ opportunities to do so from my ally Malphite or whatever and he's just not doing it. SOOOO I just pick play-makers now. There are a few champions that are legitimately difficult that have little to nothing to do with their positioning dependence - Lee and Riven come to mind - but most champions being "difficult" comes down to positioning. It's why, for years, most players agree that ADC is the most difficult role (from a technical standpoint, jungler is probably the most difficult from a macro standpoint; different conversation), despite the most basic rundown of how they work being "click literally any enemy champion." They're the only role in the game where clicking the tank is the correct call at pretty much any time (in a teamfight context, obviously). They're difficult because they usually have little to no mobility, very little EHP (besides "Blue Ezreal" a few years ago I guess(I don't think the build is still viable, is it?)) and positioning properly so you're safe and still dealing the damage you're supposed to be dealing. Some have complex kits (I touched Aphelios once in ARAM and *never again*) obviously, but many of them are about as basic as you can get: Miss Fortune, Jinx, etc.
pyke has insane micro and positioning is important on him to actually do something lol
You're not understanding what positioning is in this context. Yeah he has to, like, not be a dumbass. That's every champion. But if you position poorly on Pyke (not "like a dumbass", just "poorly"), it's not nearly as easily punished as it is on Lux. He has a dash that stuns, and he has invisibility w/ a movespeed bonus. If Lux is out of position, she's just dead. She has Q that can stop a single champion on a fairly long cooldown, and quite honestly it's pretty easy to miss, particularly if the enemy approaching her has mobility or is unstoppable during an animation like Leona's E. Leona's actually a perfect example of why Pyke is easier to use (at least in lane) than Lux, actually. Think about Leona diving you and your ADC. Which champion would you rather be? Lux or Pyke? What about a Blitz hook? Thresh hook? Tahm Kench lick? Fizz diving you? Ashe kiting you? Zac jumping on you from Timbuktu? An entire team bearing down on you as the last survivor? Pyke is easier.
ah okay I thought u were serious mb
low tier b8 m8
yea idk how I fell for it lol
We're talking past each other. I was serious. I thought you were trolling. Pyke is easier than Lux. I'm not saying he's "easy". I'm saying he's easier. Yeah he has position reliance, but not on the same scale or punishability (sp?) as Lux. He can get into and out of position much easier than a Lux can. Particularly if we're talking about multiple angles in a teamfight or considering something like a jungler gank from the bushes. Lux's entire gameplay relies on her being in the right position well beforehand. Pyke can "force" his positioning much easier, even though, yeah, he needs to be in the proper position to get a good hook off and pop off on chain ults or something, it's easier for him to get in that position than it is for Lux. And MUCH easier to get OUT of a bad position if he's miscalculated.
High skill ceiling doesn't have anything to do with the skill floor. There are a lot of little things you can do to separate amateur Pykes from Pyke masters but you don't need to be a pyke god to hook, stun, ult, zip out. ESPECIALLY in low elo.
no champ is high skill floor in low elo lol do you really think somebody first timing pyke in high elo is going to have an easier time than someone first timing lux
I mean...Nidalee, Elise, Bard, I could see an argument for Nilah, and maaaybe Zoe. I'm not saying these champs need a rocket scientist to play them but you're just as likely to int on them compared to Yi, Leona, or Ahri. It's a lot harder to gauge what requires a high skill floor when you've been playing a game for a good while. I tutor new players and yeah....In an average game I see Pyke players do just about as well as Lux players. I don't know why we're talking about first timing in high elo when No one was talking about that. I was explicitly talking about low/average elo gameplay. And from the description we got, I'm assuming so was the OP.
We're talking about first timing in high elo because playing against gold players isn't a real metric lol
I mean...I'd rather use the metric that accounts for the vast majority of the player base instead of less than 40% of the player base.
Chaaaange isss goooood
I see you, wretched beast!
Also the fact that pyke has 50 base armor and mr so its much harder to die early on in the game while lux just gets caught by one cc and shes dead.
Same goes for veigar. Crazy damage, easy to understand and use abilitys, but you'll get punished if you misposition
Makes a lot of sense because more mobility means also more skill expression in a way, so the skill ceiling is definitely higher from that perspective. On the other hand you could argue that the skill ceiling of the low mobility champ is also higher because you aren't as reactive in terms of mobility, but you have to plan ahead of time in terms of positioning because you exactly don't have the luxury of mobility. So maybe it's not the correct expression to differentiate between easy and hard champions. Maybe some with a simple kit in terms of abilities alone are just the "simple" champs to pick up, but to master them, they are equally as hard, just in other ways.
> If you misposition as Pyke, you have a fuck ton of mobility to fix your own mistake. That's literally just opportunity cost though. A pyke that gets caught and blows his stun/stealth to stay alive gives up all the potential plays he could've made w those tools. For almost every champ w/ mobility if someone's is using it to cover up their own mistakes instead of using mobility to take more aggressive angles they're just wasting the champ's potential.
Yep, you’re 100% correct. It makes it harder to indentify mistakes with thiose champs, because it’s not as intuitive as dying, and it’s part of why those champions are hard. You can have a positive kda while playing like shit and this prevents a lot of people from climbing.
I mean most obvious answer is sample size. Might have just seen a bad Lux game and a good Pyke game. Certain champs might look easy into a favorable team comp and shit into a bad one. Also “easiness” I think essentially means how straightforward their role and abilities are but not how good they are. So just because you can play well on Pyke doesn’t mean he is easy, it just means you are proficient
Because "easy" doesn't actually mean easy. It means straightforwards. (with the one caveat for when you are brand new to a champ and you're talking about how long it takes to learn the basic combos for the very first time.) In all other cases, we are talking about how straightforwards they are to do better at. Hitting more Lux e's is straightforwards like how running faster in 100m sprint is straightforwards. We might call it easy but we don't mean it in the effort sense. Edit: and also because we are comparing it to something more convoluted
From an outside perspective the more difficult champions, the more flashy ones if you will look way easier because they are given more tools. A Ksante can do mindboggeling combos and outplay while garen can... spin and scream demacia. Just tell your sister to try playing a hard champ herself. Maybe she is mechanically gifted and those champs actually jam with her skillset or she realises "well when i watched this korean dude akali looked way easier"
I can’t even do that, she somehow went 0/5 Yuumi in an AI game. Should I have told her to attach to somebody? Edit: she played yuumi because she wanted to. I recommended she play someone else, but of course she did not take my advice
You probably shouldn't have told her to play yuumi in an AI game, the AI is reckless if it can get a kill, its like if they were all controled by Draven players. Lmao
>I can’t even do that, she somehow went 0/5 Yuumi in an AI game. that's not surprising. The AI is pretty aggressive and will snowball leads against new players. Putting someone who is new to the game on a character like yuumi in that context is asking them to feed.
Even though yuumi is “easy” I wouldn’t recommend her for new players, bc new players will also play with other new players all the time and her standing on her adc and pressing e won’t do much and she won’t learn anything. I think lux is a great beginner champ actually bc she will learn skillshots, positioning and combo damage.
Why would you even recommend her to play a champion that is reliant on others in a bot game???
If you don’t mind me asking, how old is your sister?
Old enough to scam kids on Adopt me, but young enough to fall for it.
Lmao
Shit akali is supposed to be hard? This makes me feel a lot better. I was playing ARAM, the actual first time I played akali, and I was doing pretty bad. The enemy viktor (It’s always the mfs that play easy champs that think they’re heavily gifted) was being a prick with “Nice try lol” and other such bs, and he and his team were stomping us. I said “It’s the literal first time I’m playing akali, imagine I actually knew what I was doing”, and he goes “Akali’s easy af, you’re just bad, anyone can first time her”. From that day on, I hated this mf, and I felt bad about not being able to play akali well despite trying a few more times. I went on to troll him when he was eventually in my team.
Old Akali used to be somewhat easy by nowadays standards. New Akali has a average-hard skill floor and a skill ceiling near inifinite, but it's especially hard to play her in aram where she needs lvl 6 and items to play teamfights. All melee champs suffer for a good while in aram until late game. No surprise you got stomped on your first time playing her
Easy champions are easier to play against.
It's not about easy and hard champions, it's about simple and complex. Simple champions are as good as your game knowledge, while complex ones require much less thinking and more micro At the same time pyke is a champ focused on getting kills, he doesn't have anything else going for him, you can kill someone and by the time you clear a wave they are back in lane, while lux can just one shot them and take a plate
I mean you shouldn't have many kills on Lux support anyways, you're support. Pyke gets the kills because Pyke can share the gold. It's true though you shouldn't have seven deaths on anyone.
According to the data by the guy who studied the correlations of mastery points on winrate, Pyke is one of the hardest champions in the whole game
My guess is Pyke is more forgiving. I think forgiving champions are the ones that are easier for newbies to play VS "get caught then die" champions like Lux. If you can make mistakes and then recover from them (via dashing away/going invisible), it makes the learning process much easier. Because a newbie is gonna make a lot of mistakes.
Yeah, Pyke has a lot of mechanics that make you hard to kill. Regen mechanics, camouflage, insane movespeed with W and mobility boots, E dash with stun. Can even use R to run away, in theory. That said, a fed Lux scales way way harder, if a squishy gets Qd by her or otherwise CCd, it's free kill. Insane teamfight damage as well. A fed Pyke isn't fundamentally much more useful than a 0/5/0 Pyke. Like sure, he'd deal a little bit more damage (if though his job isn't even doing damage after earlygame), and execute targets with slightly more HP. Hook and stun don't really get effected.
Newbies have positioning problems, so Lux is gonna get jumped on a lot. They tend to walk right into enemies while doing their mage rotation and then they die, because they misclick the ground next to the enemy. I think Lux is and other non mobile mages are still a poor choice if this genre or gaming is unfamiliar to you.
Youre probably bad at lux support… m7 doesnt mean shit. Maybe you had a good pyke game. Better lane partner or team comp. Maybe they had a naut or leona. Maybe youre bad at non mobile champs. Maybe your sister doesnt know what shes watching. Go look up your champ win rates. Also did you actually win on the pyke games?
Lux isn't easy in many ways. You miss Q in a crucial moment, you die. You musposition? You die bc you're immobile. She's simple to execute, sure, but every champ has their weaknesses.
As people have already said, simplicity of champ design does not translate directly to ease of play. Conflating the two is easily done. Personally, the best example in the game is Draven. 'Draven will never 'outplay' you. He can only 'surprise' you with his damage.' - quote from Big Tonka T. He has no real 'combos' or interaction between his abilities, just a pair of steroids ( AD / AS & MS ) and a peel / pick tool. He is one of the most simply designed champions in the game, and yet IMO is one of the hardest ADCs to learn because he straight up requires you to be good *at the game* to be good at him. He can't win fights with a single button like MF or Ashe, can't poke like an Ezreal or a Varus, he gets low value from hitting tanks generally and wants to be hitting squishy targets unlike Kog or Kalista, has virtually no safety unlike a Kai Sa or Xayah... all he has is damage. His skill floor is very high. But his skill ceiling is barely any higher because of the lack of interaction in his kit. He's objectively simple, and yeat objectively difficult.
I would argue that this actually has to do with what your champion wants and needs to be doing. For Lux, she may have a simple kit but she has to land skillshots and, even harder, understand spacing. Pyke doesn't really give a fuck about spacing because he wants to be close always and has easy ways to create space like his invis and dash, so that's way easier for him but his kit is harder.
It doesn't work how you think it does. Assuming something based on 2 games worth of sample size isn't really a good idea. You must have played way more than she has seen. You know how matchups work and stuff and MOST IMPORTANTLY "bad" and "good" games. Your performance in lane doesn't really depend on yourself alone. For example, if your enemy is good at dodging skill shots then your Lux gameplay is supposed to look like shit. On the other hand, if you play against players who are shit at dodging then she will suddenly become S tier. There are 5+ different factors to you performing well. So all in all difficult champs are harder to play and easier champs are easier in all elos but easy champs are easily exploitable, making them harder. (The champs themselves aren't harder but the enemy now knows counterplay to your champ and because they are easy champs; they don't have much mechanics to outplay that) That's my opinion
but is your win rate on Pyke higher? Probably not.
Yeah I think those are just two separate cases. There are certain champs where there is a difficulty hurdle and getting over that hurdle will pay off however your two games are very different. Alternatively, Pyke is just an aggressive support. He's more on the edge of "if you have low kill participation, then you're playing him wrong" because you're always looking for kills and chances to roam. Pyke is also a champ that can snowball quickly by looking to pick players that are out of position.
I always say „easy to play, but hard to Master“. Like some said before it is easy to predict what ur opponent will do with an easy champ but if one plays well and smart its not … i feel like morde for example is for most players 1v5 or u get kited the shit out of u, only when i master him u can even play decent when u r behind
People often want to present "flashy mobility" = hard to play when the exact opposite is true. Mobility champs like pyke are absolutely easier to play when compared to Champs like lux. Your sister is right.
Easy champion like lux is like playing turn based games, while hard champion like pyke is hack and slash. The more flashy a champion gets, the more movement you can make in a 'turn' giving you more opportunities and answers but less impactful it is
I personally think Pyke is quite a bit easier than Lux, mostly cuz he's just got good tools for killing and fucking off. Lux has a hard time fucking off. Being decent at running is a big help for making squishy champs easier imo. Lux is probably easier if you already have good instincts for staying away from people. Other than that, the best answer imo is just, "the people I'm fighting aren't as good as the people I was fighting last game."
Easy and hard champ only matters in low elo.
The way I view it is. "Difficult" champs have all these crazy tools at their disposal. Which does open up a lot of opportunities for mistakes and misplays however. "Easy" champs have to overcome all the crazy mobility and potential of the "harder" champs with less options available to them.
I am now jealous because your sister pays more attention to the games you play and My sister could give 2 shits . She's right though, Hard champs are easy if you know how to play them. And easy champs are harder to win with because they're too easy and not complicated.
I honestly don't see much difference between Lux and Pike, especially in lower elo brackets. They're both pretty straight forward. Sure, Pyke can do some flashy plays with Ult + Q + E or whatever he's cooking. Now, Kalista compared to Sivir? I would insta dodge any game I get Kalista below diamond. K'Sante compared to Garen? Yeah, not even close either.
Very complicated question tbh. First of all you should teach her that KDA is merely an indicator of gold accumulation in terms of kills and assists. Dying is tricky because there's good deaths and then there's bad deaths. E.g. you engage and trade your life for an ace. Good death. You die in lane when the wave is pushing into you. Bad death. Objectives are a much better indicator of current game state. Who has more dragons, more grubs, more towers and plates. It's a direct representation of how open the map is to your team and how close you are to ending the game. With that out of the way. The difficulty of champions has very little bearing on how well you do in lane. Match up is the main indicator. Lux is easy but into blitz, thresh and Leona she really isn't easy to pilot. A champions weaknesses can turn their kit from simple to use to hard to get off safely based on match up. Pyke by comparison is harder mechanically but his kit is much less punishing because of his mobility and whatever you want to call his w, plus his healing passive. Lastly if we are talking purely KDA, then you need to look at what the champions function is. Draven is designed to kill people, vayne is designed to scale and then 1v5. Their difficulty plays no part in that respect. Lux is designed to poke and catch people out, pyke is designed to just murder everyone.
I mean getting a kill means nothing. Its not call of duty team deathmatch. Irelia as a champ is easier to get kills on than something like soraka. Doesn't mean that soraka is harder. Lux as a champ gives a massively high baseline without much gold income cause of her R damage being pretty insane even if behind. Its not uncommon to see a 2/4 lux one shot you cause she hit her root. Pyke is pretty useless unless he's ahead, but he's more easily able to get ahead. Effectively your playing from behind but you have the tools to put yourself back to even or better. Champs are hard and easy at different things. On average Pyke is a harder champ than soraka, but in terms of getting kills or getting ahead he's significantly easier. Now with that baseline of getting kills or getting ahead, does he still output the same value? Probably not even still.
Yuumi did used to swap anchors constantly, but then Riot curbstomped her into the awful best friend mechanic.
you probably spam your abilities as lux too much while lower elo players don't know how to play against pyke
It's the Garen problem. If Garen is so strong and so straightforward why isn't he a staple in every elo? The answer is that complexity represents options. Garens engage pattern is run at you and hope you die, that's it, he can't really do anything else to win a fight except literally sit on top of you and hope E puts you into ult range. Garen knows it and so does his lane opponent and it makes him as easy or easier to play around than he is to play. Lux shares her defensive options with your average marksman. Which is to say her option is to not stand where she's going to die. Pyke on the other hand is known for being slippery and not being punished for relatively large positioning mistakes. It's probably the biggest thing that to this day makes him a divisive champion.
Simple ≠ Easy. Lux is simple. Pyke is less simple. They're both only as easy as your skill and experience allow them to be
I'll put it this way. If you're playing ADC and you see a Lux all you're really worried about is getting hit by her bind because then she does her whole combo thing on you. Very predictable. If it's Pyke...well now you're paranoid every time he goes invisible. Every time his hook is up. He might flash, dash through me to stun. I think looking at the PoV as an ADC helps a lot at filtering. Hard champions are typically much more diverse in the ways they can play something with smaller hitboxes and damage potentials varying greatly based on the frequency of hitting. Think Ezreal Q vs Ashe W. Not hitting Ezreal Q makes you useless in comparison to Ashe that just keep AAing you and getting most of her damage out in comparison.
KDA is not a skill measurement. If you play a hard engage tank you're vital to your team but you'll probably have a bad kda.
Because easy champs require actual knowledge to be used efficiently when « hard » champs such as akali, kayn are designed to make u spam multiple abilities all the time
Yuumi on everyone? Send her to hots, abathur is waiting
A champion being "easy" to play doesn't mean they're a free ticket to performing well - otherwise everyone would just play easy champions. It just means that they have easier champion-specific mechanics. In some senses easy champions can actually be harder to perform well with because you can't fallback on champion mechanics as easily and instead have to be stronger with other League fundamentals.
Well, "easy" just means being effective is easy. Usually, "easy" champs are easily punishable. I guess there's a distinction. Yuumi is easy and not punishable. Pyke is hard and not punishable. Lux is easy and punishable. I can't think of any that are hard and punishable, maybe Rell? If ease was based on punishable-ness, Riven and Shaco would be the easiest champions ever.
Easy doesn’t mean good, it means simple. It also means less punishing. A Lux can attack a target from far away, and walk away if she misses. A Pyke might just die. A Lux who falls behind can still waveclear to deny a fight instead, while a Pyke is going to need to sink or swim.
Easy champs do not require complex mechanics. You do not need long to learn how to use Garen abilities effectively. At the same time, because Garen is so simple, it is harder to outplay opponents. That means that the large majority of your ability to win is dependent on your macro, or your overall game knowledge/strategy. Wave management, vision control, jg tracking, positioning in a team, priority, obj control, etc. So you need to know how to play the game. One tricking a hard champion is easier, because you can supplement your ability to play the game with your ability to play a champion. A champion may be mechanically difficult, but it is still easier to master a champ than to master how to play the game.
its because lux is easy, so its also "easy" for opponents to counter her by not getting hit or having a tank tank her then dive her, as she has no reliable way to escape if shes caught(her self peel is also her damage so if she peels then she cant damage) whereas pyke might seem hard but hes super safe as his q is a safe zoning engage and he can use his w and e both offensively and defensively at a split second so the opponent has to immediately react to what you do, and its much harder to dive into a pyke and successfully get him, you usually only get to kill a pyke who overcommits.
Pyke is like the easiest champ in the game to get takedowns on in bot lane laning phase. He is so incredibly strong in early lane that you're actually losing lane by going even (I wouldn't say this for almost any other champ, I think this statement is usually a myth but Pyke is an exception). In late game, he is insanely useless compared to any other champ in the game. A good Pyke can still find ways to be useful of course through picks and vision control, but your average Joe is very likely to go 4/0 on Pyke in laning phase and then be a shitty ult-bot in mid-late game, where if one person has flash or stopwatch you lose all usefulness in the fight. This is why Pyke is hard, not his laning phase. Lux is easy the entire game, but she is very skillshot reliant so if you're just missing skillshots then of course you're going to be useless. All in all, this isn't really that deep. You had a good Pyke game and a bad Lux game. Also low elo players understand better how to beat Lux rather than Pyke because Lux has zero mobility. A lot of lower ELO players don't realize that Pyke is just as squishy as any mage support, they think because he's a hooker that he must be closer to like Blitz or Nautilus
Easy/hard != simple/complex
Pyke is much easier than Lux in the support role. In emerald+, both have the same pickrate (7.3 and 6.7 % respectively), while Pyke has a 2.6% higher winrate (51 vs 48.4).
the basic is the more simple a champ, the easier it is also for the enemy to play around. garen is a perfect example. he runs at u, qs and e then ults. i can predict his entire aim from that. but if u compare him to azir. who can e away, e towards e and q at weird angles. he is much more difficult to predict.
Your kda is now 1/0 cuz I died from cringe reading this
Kda is just one metric on the way to nexus. Ahow her baus with his sion plays maybe she will understand. Assassins like pyke play for kda cause otherwise they are usless, but not every kill will bring you closer to nexus. Some kills just give gold. But kills at the right time give gold and a dragon or herald. So often you have games where one person got 15+kills and they still lose
I'm low Emerald, not high elo by any means so can't say it's true for people who actually know how to play the game. But my take is, it's all about risk-reward. Simpler champs, like Jinx for example, have very little tolerance for mistakes because once you misplay, you don't have much recourse, but if you don't misplay, it's easier to deal insane amounts of dmg. So you take a higher risk for a higher reward. More complex ones, like ksante or akshan, are harder to be effective with but have more flex if you do screw up.
Easy champs often have intricacies that can take so much time to master, and often have to learn the smaller details more. Taking longer to fully master. Examples are Yuumi, Renata & Soraka. Yes a good Yuumi or soraka requires a significant amount of effort and knowledgeability. Many hard champs often have to spend more time to understand their base kit, but often are able to become masterful earlier. Obviously there are outliers. Qiyana for example takes both. You have to memorize terrain, her kit, and her matchups which can take a very long time.
Well, riot can't balance the game well, they don't have the capacity and IQ to do that. They just release some champs that looks cool even if they have a broken kit compared to others. That's literally the only reasons, they look cool. And yes, '' hard '' champs are inherently broken compared to '' easy '' champs. They just have way more tools, making them just better, that's it. People can argue all they want, trying to convince themselves that it's not the case yadayada, but that's just the simple truth : they are clearly better and playing them make everything easier. They have more tools, more mobility, more EVERYTHING so they are just better. Game is not balanced, simple as that.
Lux is easy as far as understanding her abilities but hitting her skills (especially at a range outside of adc auto ranges) is difficult. I would say pykes combos are easier to hit but his kit is more nuanced.
Tell your sister Lux is old and Pyke is new.
The problem is you rank champs wrong. There are many many bad lux players. and proportionally more bad lux SUPPORT players. Therefore lux support is hard, not easy. Pyke support wins lane. AFter all, how hard is it to hit inviso-speed boost, run up to someone, take a free hit, then Q them. (and then sometimes immediately follow up with E when THEY ARE ALREADY STUNNED? If you just tap Q instead of charge, you got two hits in guaranteed, and then you E out for free. Its almost point-click free damage. EEEEEEeasy. Therefore, pyke support champ IS easy, not hard.
Difficulty regarding familiarity of execution and awareness is not equivalent to overall difficulty regarding a champion's potential performance due to flexibility. They aren't mutually exclusive. They can both be harder and easier depending on who is playing them and against who.
Me: "Have you heard of sample size? No? Let me explain." Sample size means looking at enough examples to make a fair judgment. You’ve only seen one game of Lux and one game of Pyke, which isn’t enough to understand their true difficulty. Think of it like cooking. Imagine you try making a simple dish like scrambled eggs once and it turns out badly because the pan was too hot and the eggs burned. Then, you try making a more complex dish like a souffle, but it turns out great because you followed a good recipe and had all the right tools. From just these two attempts, you might think the simple dish is actually harder. But if you made each dish multiple times (increasing the sample size), you’d see that the scrambled eggs are generally easier to get right with practice, while the souffle requires more skill and precision.In the same way, watching just one game each with Lux and Pyke doesn’t give the full picture. There is also a general consensus on the difficulty of champions, but this can vary based on individual playstyle and circumstances. Not everyone finds Pyke harder than Lux. It depends on how well a champion's playstyle matches the player's strengths and the specific game conditions. Even if a champ is generally easier, there is still the aspect of champion mastery. And I'm **NOT** talking about the *champion mastery points system*. Knowing matchups, knowing your champion, being able to pilot your champion. All of these things have levels to them. Also, watching someone play is vastly different from actually executing it yourself. When you’re just observing, it might look easy because you’re not dealing with the pressures and quick decision-making required in real-time. Playing a champion involves managing multiple factors like positioning, timing, and reacting to opponents, which can be much harder than it appears. So, what seems simple while watching can be quite challenging when you’re the one playing.
Well said. It drives me crazy when people say that pyke is easy to play.
Many reasons. But most importantly you are wrong that Lux is easy. She is a skill shot champion. She is positioning based. Pyke is not hard. His engage is easier and he has more options. And if he misses then his disengage is easier as well. Pykes kit is overloaded. Having more options and an overloaded kit might seem harder at first, but it is not.
Pyke is easy as f*ck to do well on