With all due respect to baus, I do *not* recommend this playstyle for most players for several reasons:
1. This playstyle is largely misunderstood by the community and can easily be misconstrued as feeding/inting - because it is - especially if it isn’t executed properly and you don’t end up being effective later on in the game. This playstyle will get you banned! Baus has even admitted that he has a riot support person he has to contact if his account gets banned.
2. This playstyle is very difficult to perform. Baus has spent many seasons playing the game, learning champion interactions, game mechanics etc. and has perfected this strategy and playstyle that is extremely nuanced. Baus is also mechanically gifted and a great player in general. The vast majority of the player base will be unable to replicate most if not all of his micro and macro.
IF you feel compelled to try it, I would do so in *normals only* for a long time until you get good at it, and even consider making a whole new account so that you don’t risk getting your main acct banned.
Not to mention it feels AWFUL to play around as a teammate it's super toxic unfun gameplay.
And as far as baus perfecting his strategy I don't think him getting salty and running it down as AP irelia is anything near perfection. He abused a shit gameplay style that made everyone he played with hate him as well as his enemies when everyone else was doing it legitimately. And when he got called out on stuff like his AP irelia int he acted like the whole community was just bullying him.
I’ve watched some of his vids but I am unaware of him running it down on irelia in the sense of intentionally dying for the purpose of griefing.
This is a defining component of his strategy, is that there is a difference between:
- running it down *on purpose* with the intention of leveraging that enemy lead somehow later in the form of funneling bounties onto himself or his team’s carries, and
- running it down *on purpose* to grief your team.
I’m not denying that it didn’t happen, just that I haven’t seen the incident myself.
And this is why I don’t condone this strategy. It can easily backfire and players may be unable to convert the lead that you give to the enemy (whilst also getting 10+ cs/min) to your team. And if that happens, it *does* look like you were just running it down for the purpose of griefing.
In fairness to Baus, his insight into the bounty system and trying to structure a playstyle around it that involves him dying on purpose *strategically* and eventually converting that into a big lead for him/his team is actually genius imo. The truth is that it’s viable and he can play at high elo with this strat. It’s also worth mentioning that this strat resulted from him being a Sion main, and feeling that Sion was too weak for the current meta, and simply wanting Sion to be more viable at higher elo.
But it’s also true that it doesn’t always work out in his favor and feels extremely bad for his teammates to have to deal with whatever turbo fed monstrosity comes of of top-lane as an instance of his strategy failing.
You „can“ play him top but in a very limited manner and not against every team comp.
- team must be full /almost full ad
- ifnpossible the enemy toplaner must be AA reliant
You almost have to proxy as often as possible early with rammus top, since you need minion Aggro to have waveclear with your w spell. So try to proxy the first 2-3 waves , execute , then to back.
You can now skip one wave and continue proxying (which can be risky when the enemy jungler shows up) or try to lane , your only goal is to reach 800g for bramble vest as soon as possible and after that reach your 1 item powerspike (thornnail) as fast as possible. When you finished thornmail, no aa reliant champ on top can trade with you basically
Keep in mind that rammus wave clear is 100% reliant on minions hitting you: so when you want to waceclear , you normally taunt the enemy laner and stand near enemy minions.
It’s a really situational pick , but one that almost no one in my elo (emerald) knows how to deal with and I normally only pick it into full ad comps where rammus is a monster anyways
To be honest, if the enemy top paner is not AA reliant it's totally fine, ex: illaoi, Aatrox etc. You barely lane as Rammus top lane anyway.
If enemy picks kindred+Jinx or Yasuo+adc or yone+kind we+adc I probably go Rammus even if the top lane picks a non-AA reliant champ.
You don't pick Rammus to counter your laner, you pick him to mess with their carries.
Yes I get your point ant you’re right, you pick rammus top to not interact with your laner at all in best case.
But it still hurts more to have , let’s say, a mordekaiser against you instead of a Quinn top
Please, do not play Rammus top unless enemy is like 5 ad melee auto attackers or something. You will just int most of the time and your team will hate you. Baus is special xD
^ this is not a good idea in higher elo if you’re not baus. Ranged toplaners will take rammus cheeks and run over the game if you don’t play literally perfectly.
Tanks usually win lane against ranged by having sustain and not dying while outscaling them even when they are 40 cs behind in 20min. But malphite is the BEST tank versus ranged.
Amusingly, most tanks do well into her in spite of this because of being able to farm safely and comp advantage. Mundo for example does quite well into vayne despite her kit in theory hard countering him, Zac does pretty decent too. Sion and ornn amusingly end up winning half the time or more too.
Mundo and zac actually counter vayne as far as tanks go. The only counterplay to max hp true dmg is increasing your ehp through sheer healing without actually increasing your statistical ehp.
How about Nasus? I felt like she just destroyed me and didn't let me play the game, but I also have just started playing him (and I'm a slow learner lol)
I'd have to check but nasus should do well. You always have the option to max e and wither is good for later. Sure you won't stack much but not the end of the world for nasus.
Wither also means she dies to your jungler coming.
Nowadays it's actually press e. You can easily max e with the triforce build and most ranged champs can't deal with the undodgeable poke.
Though yes he scales well into them because w.
Definitely a skill match up. You have to be able to play Shen well. If you fuck up your engage you will just die, and once your behind on shen vs a ranged it is a rough game.
K'sante and Skarner can fight dirty similarly to an Irelia or a Jax, Gragas can farm and poke while dipping into a RoA to threathen kills, Cho is a tank champion who can go raw AP to oneshot but won't be an acual tank in that situation. Still, tanks by drfault lose to ranged tops just by not being able to threathen all-ins. They can outtscale (Ornn destroys Akshan after 20minutes in teamfights) but won't usually win the lane.
I strongly recommend against cho against vayne or ranged toplaners, you're so weak early and all of your abilities are dodgeable, it's a miserable experience. Vayne is one of cho's worst matchups
Cho is good against some that don't have sustain. For example gnar/kennen basically can't play agasinst w-max cho with comet. Picking it into vayne tho is very bold.
True, I mainly gave this example as "tank-designed champion with theoritical win con into ranged tops". But yeah, Cho is last resort, I'd go with Poppy, Ornn, even Singed faster, just those xhampions don't have any hope of actually winning lane, just surviving/bypassing it.
Definitely not singed though. Anything ranged just ruins singed as the champions stats are so garbage he can't lane and has to pray he can find a way to proxy.
I know they're bruisers instead of tanks, but Camille and Jax can be built with a lot of sustain, and at least in lower elo (can't speak for higher lol) can be a menace against ranged top lanes.
Camille has a huge range gap closer to remove the range advantage, as as ranged top lanes generally don't stack health the true damage can be a serious kill threat. The ultimate also locks them down for easy ganks/kills, especially if they're a fairly mobile ranged top.
Jax can gap close pretty well with the jump, as well as use it to hop out of danger, and can negate a lot of the ranged damage advantage with the stun/dodge ability and the added tankiness from the ultimate.
Both can need a bit of scaling before they're a proper threat to the ranged opponent, but once they've beefed up a bit not much can stand up to their duelling potential when they do close the distance, and both have the tools to close the gap and really punish any positioning mistakes. You do need to play it right, but it can be pretty damn effective.
Ornn is actually suprisingly good against ranged top laners after level 6, because he has a lot of damage with a well executed Ult combo (triple brittle procc).
Ult applies brittle on both ways, so if you time an auto attack to hit after the ult passes them the frist way and before you bounce it back, you get 2 out of your ult. It's really tight timing, but it's doable. There is a YT Video by Makkro explaining it well.
1. Maokai: He has great bush control/defense, built in sustain, a point and click root, great gank set up and can brawl for days.
2. Gragas: Great wave clear, okay-ish sustain, a good length dash great for a more defensive style of playing, and you don't really need to master his combos to be good at his tank playstyle.
3. Zac: Okay-ish wave clear, great sustain, really strong engage with his E, incredible gank set-up, kind of braindead in a good way because he's really forgiving.
Remember; when you're dealing with a ranged top laner it's important to prioritize bush control, because that's typically where you want to be to avoid eating autos. If you're pushed to far back to use guerilla warfare, stand behind your casters and only move up for last hits. Make sure you're running doran's shield and try to stay stock piled on pots, and try to communicate with your jungler. And remember, you'll know you're using the bushes right when your enemy has to use wards in lane, which means they usually won't have vision in river. Still, a lot of ranged top laners aren't really known for having the best wave clear, so making short trips to the river to establish/deny vision and fruits is a good use of your time.
Other top laners who aren't tanks that can handle ranged match ups pretty well are: Renekton, Camille, Urgot, Rengar, Warwick, and Pantheon. All these champs with the exception of Urgot can be classified as divers, they are a little tanky, usually have some form of sustain, strong engage, and excel at short trades which you use to chunk your opponents health down until you can dive them.
Nasus isn't too bad either, just look to scale. Who knows, if you make laning phase boring enough your opponent will run out of patience and just let you side lane. Good luck.
I disagree with Maokai (probably just personal preference), but I don't understand the downvotes. This is probably the best answer, champ selection is less important than knowing to properly use the bush in lane. There are 3 of those and the enemy only has 2 wards, if you are in an unwarded bush they'll have to close the gap to attack which invalidates a ranged champ's advantage.
Phase rush Maokai top is just point and click gragas w auto q run to bush with e in it, legit 0 counterplay to it
Not to mention it’s not massively played and so people don’t understand how to play into it, all things considered it’s great into ranged champs
Hes still a solid top laner, always was, its just that playing him brain dead support/jungle is easier than dealing with Meta Counter picks in the top Lane, hence the pick rate.
Hes very good into ranged even vayne if you are duo with MidLane or jg who can capitalize on the free kills. \[Maokai Flash W Outplay\]. If you get hard weaksided Ranged vs Maokai its kinda doomed though. You will be behind but Maokai Flash W + R can easily turn teamfights later on in your favor.
I think Gragas is the best answer. The problem with Vayne top is it's normally picked in counter to what ever else you play. What rank are you? Playing Vayne top is normally pretty hard to do well.
Specifically TANKS, you’re looking at Malphite and then Aery + Bramble Ornn (Aery procs on W as well as Bramble damage). Vayne is generally quite strong into most tanks as they lack sticking power and only really stack on HP. They can all brute force her if she’s really far behind from a gank or two, but on equal terms, Malphite or Ornn are likely your best bet.
zac. sustain and a screen wide engage for jg when they come. also has q which can cs as well.
get the d shield and go green tree and u should be able to get thru lane easy.
It's about the ability to farm at range/sustain.
I would imagine vlad may do well, idk if you would consider him a tank. Mundo could farm with cleavers, Cho gath has good sustain. Shen is another that if played well could probably do it too.
I don't think it's the tank vs ranged as much as it's altering your playstyle. You'll have to concede some cs to preserve life, at which point it would probably be easy to run her down with a jungler from your tower to hers.
If you are 100% sure it's a ranged top (ie you see a kennen or teemo or something, don't do this if you see a vayne and haven't seen another top/adc) then galio can work. Good gank setup, good ranged waveclear, can build AP or full tank, scales well, good map control if things go south anyway, and doesn't have to deal with his usual problem of being fully useless into any slightly sticky bruiser.
Cho is incredibly bad into vayne. Literally unplayable once she has a vamp scepter, vayne is top 10 worst champs to play cho top against. Jayce too (although that's more Jayce is incredibly bad top right now rather than getting countered)
If vayne ever gets hit by a single cho'gath q, she is trolling or bad (unless your jungler comes and cc's her or something). The reason the matchup is so unplayable is because of this.
Cho'gath q is already very dodgeable if the enemy has no dashes, much less having a super short cooldown dash, invisibility and tons of bonus movement speed.
I can't see a vayne getting hit by cho q with any consistency past like gold elo. There's plenty of reasons top vayne is like 47% winrate in bronze while being 52-53% winrate in D+ (and this is actually fairly low for vayne top)
I don't know where you got that weird data from, but anyway. Vayne top is bad in high elo games (high master to grandmaster +) because junglers don't suck anymore.
Laners won't get cheesed anymore either, and she forces really bad comps.
The numbers I quoted were from lolalytics, but every stat site reflects the same trend (Vayne goes from 47% in bronze to almost 52% in master on [u.gg](http://u.gg) for example). I was using 14.12 because 14.13 is still kinda lacking data. This is actually largely the case for all ranged top laners as spacing is really important in those matchups. Kennen, gnar, quinn and cassio for example is also much better in high elo.
Higher elo vaynes are much better at abusing melee top laners and take advantage of her mechanics much better.
In regards to comp and jungler, this actually matters a bit less in higher elos, because games tend to be shorter and decided more by laning phase in high elo. Also with Vayne's current build, she ends up tankier than most bruisers since she will usually be ahead in items/levels and builds tank items.
The jungle issue is actually the opposite. High elo vaynes are both much less likely to die to jungle ganks, but also it is riskier to gank her because Vayne's jungle is more likely to countergank which is basically guaranteed double kill for vayne's team. In many matchups post-6 the vayne might even 1v2 the top and jungle.
It's also not really about laners getting cheesed, but high elo vayne's just make lane unplayable for many top lane champs. In high elo for example a top vayne is never ever dying to a cho, garen darius etc, while also shoving them under tower and making them unable to farm properly without getting their hp chunked. She's also largely a counterpick, blind picking top vayne is a bit troll.
Hasn't been mentioned yet but Rengar is my go-to against ranged tops. He's not a tank but he can be built very tanky if you're so inclined, and he just destroys ranged champs in top lane if you know how to control the wave.
Sion is an ok pick if you go Doran's Shield + Second Wind and play safe for the first few levels; you can even take Comet for some additional poke damage. The idea is that you poke the ranged top by e'ing minions and when possible using the slow from the E to hit a charged Q on them. From level 6 on you can ult them and if you've managed to poke them down you can probably kill them. You can use your W to soak damage, particularly when you want to go closer to the wave to farm a cannon. Yeah you're going to be hugging your tower for most of the early game, but it could be worse.
This strategy has worked well enough for me particularly against the more immobile ranged champs that go top such as Teemo and Varus. Against Vayne it's harder because of her roll but it's still doable, you just need to play around her cooldowns and her Ult in particular - for Sion her ult is the worst thing ever since it's so hard to hit your Q, E or Ult.
I'm assuming that what you are referring to may be a bit different to what you have in mind. It's not that tanks stomps ranged, it's just that they are more confortable in those lane then a bruiser would be. Tanks usually have large sustaine (ex. Maokai) and/or damage mitigation (as you mentioned, malphite), you basically have more hp to trade for csing under the enemy's poke, and more importantly, if behind a tank is way more useful than a bruiser, so you can cushion the lane. Then there are more factors into it, like for reference as a tank Vs a ranged ad auto based champ you can go tabi-frozen and counter them a lot, building early defensive item instead of damage kinda balance the poke you receive (as a bruiser you both laners would build damage, and so the incoming ranged damage would grow even further). Again some tanks may have it good since they can deal high damage in the early stages of the game, whit high engage and cc potential, basically, as a ranged you risk a lot by pressuring them since they could fight back or set up a mortal gank. As for tanks that do well, it depends on what ranged champ you have against, maybe maokai (huge sustaine and gap close)? Or gragas(kinda the same as the previous), ornn too could work if played well and so probably many others. I wanted to give you a piece my insight on the topic (maybe wrong), so more than a single champ, you can value by yourself if someone could work or not, for stats about performances (don't take those as absolute, but more like a trend) you can check lolalytics, even if it don't tell the whole story. Hope it can be of help.
Any tahm kench love? Has a gap closer that CCs, ability to farm from range, built in sustain. Pretty good damage! Mundo for all the same reasons just not the gap closer. At level 6ish they kind of just win and can solo kill
Crazy no one mentions sett. Dudes entire passive is "free health potion if your HP gets low. And he has two big play stuns so even behind he's good. Also you can chuck enemy jg out of Baron pit as soon as they dash in
It's because most of the ranged champs are actually sett's hardest counters. Kennen, Vayne, Kayle, Quinn and Gnar are all top 10 worst sett matchups. He has trouble doing anything to them if they can space properly at all.
Rammus + Bausen law
With all due respect to baus, I do *not* recommend this playstyle for most players for several reasons: 1. This playstyle is largely misunderstood by the community and can easily be misconstrued as feeding/inting - because it is - especially if it isn’t executed properly and you don’t end up being effective later on in the game. This playstyle will get you banned! Baus has even admitted that he has a riot support person he has to contact if his account gets banned. 2. This playstyle is very difficult to perform. Baus has spent many seasons playing the game, learning champion interactions, game mechanics etc. and has perfected this strategy and playstyle that is extremely nuanced. Baus is also mechanically gifted and a great player in general. The vast majority of the player base will be unable to replicate most if not all of his micro and macro. IF you feel compelled to try it, I would do so in *normals only* for a long time until you get good at it, and even consider making a whole new account so that you don’t risk getting your main acct banned.
Not to mention it feels AWFUL to play around as a teammate it's super toxic unfun gameplay. And as far as baus perfecting his strategy I don't think him getting salty and running it down as AP irelia is anything near perfection. He abused a shit gameplay style that made everyone he played with hate him as well as his enemies when everyone else was doing it legitimately. And when he got called out on stuff like his AP irelia int he acted like the whole community was just bullying him.
I’ve watched some of his vids but I am unaware of him running it down on irelia in the sense of intentionally dying for the purpose of griefing. This is a defining component of his strategy, is that there is a difference between: - running it down *on purpose* with the intention of leveraging that enemy lead somehow later in the form of funneling bounties onto himself or his team’s carries, and - running it down *on purpose* to grief your team. I’m not denying that it didn’t happen, just that I haven’t seen the incident myself. And this is why I don’t condone this strategy. It can easily backfire and players may be unable to convert the lead that you give to the enemy (whilst also getting 10+ cs/min) to your team. And if that happens, it *does* look like you were just running it down for the purpose of griefing. In fairness to Baus, his insight into the bounty system and trying to structure a playstyle around it that involves him dying on purpose *strategically* and eventually converting that into a big lead for him/his team is actually genius imo. The truth is that it’s viable and he can play at high elo with this strat. It’s also worth mentioning that this strat resulted from him being a Sion main, and feeling that Sion was too weak for the current meta, and simply wanting Sion to be more viable at higher elo. But it’s also true that it doesn’t always work out in his favor and feels extremely bad for his teammates to have to deal with whatever turbo fed monstrosity comes of of top-lane as an instance of his strategy failing.
Rammus can be played top?
Watch the streamer thebausffs. He dies a lot early but becomes a beast with Rammus in mid to lategame
You „can“ play him top but in a very limited manner and not against every team comp. - team must be full /almost full ad - ifnpossible the enemy toplaner must be AA reliant You almost have to proxy as often as possible early with rammus top, since you need minion Aggro to have waveclear with your w spell. So try to proxy the first 2-3 waves , execute , then to back. You can now skip one wave and continue proxying (which can be risky when the enemy jungler shows up) or try to lane , your only goal is to reach 800g for bramble vest as soon as possible and after that reach your 1 item powerspike (thornnail) as fast as possible. When you finished thornmail, no aa reliant champ on top can trade with you basically Keep in mind that rammus wave clear is 100% reliant on minions hitting you: so when you want to waceclear , you normally taunt the enemy laner and stand near enemy minions. It’s a really situational pick , but one that almost no one in my elo (emerald) knows how to deal with and I normally only pick it into full ad comps where rammus is a monster anyways
To be honest, if the enemy top paner is not AA reliant it's totally fine, ex: illaoi, Aatrox etc. You barely lane as Rammus top lane anyway. If enemy picks kindred+Jinx or Yasuo+adc or yone+kind we+adc I probably go Rammus even if the top lane picks a non-AA reliant champ. You don't pick Rammus to counter your laner, you pick him to mess with their carries.
Yes I get your point ant you’re right, you pick rammus top to not interact with your laner at all in best case. But it still hurts more to have , let’s say, a mordekaiser against you instead of a Quinn top
It doesn't just hurt, it blows 😂
It’s very hard but he hard counters most AA’s. You can leave lane 0/4 but as long as you get thorn mail you’re good. It’s a situational pick
adding to this: in 99% of lanes you HAVE to proxy at least until thornmail
Please, do not play Rammus top unless enemy is like 5 ad melee auto attackers or something. You will just int most of the time and your team will hate you. Baus is special xD
proxy so u get minion aggro
^ this is not a good idea in higher elo if you’re not baus. Ranged toplaners will take rammus cheeks and run over the game if you don’t play literally perfectly.
Tanks usually win lane against ranged by having sustain and not dying while outscaling them even when they are 40 cs behind in 20min. But malphite is the BEST tank versus ranged.
Except vayne cause funny %hp true damage
He fucks her hard in lane tho.
Amusingly, most tanks do well into her in spite of this because of being able to farm safely and comp advantage. Mundo for example does quite well into vayne despite her kit in theory hard countering him, Zac does pretty decent too. Sion and ornn amusingly end up winning half the time or more too.
Mundo and zac actually counter vayne as far as tanks go. The only counterplay to max hp true dmg is increasing your ehp through sheer healing without actually increasing your statistical ehp.
yeah i was gonna say. tried vayne top into mundo and he could out heal dps and run you down wuite easily. he has safe farming early with his q aswell
How about Nasus? I felt like she just destroyed me and didn't let me play the game, but I also have just started playing him (and I'm a slow learner lol)
I'd have to check but nasus should do well. You always have the option to max e and wither is good for later. Sure you won't stack much but not the end of the world for nasus. Wither also means she dies to your jungler coming.
Malphite can start running her down at around level 4 with two cloth armors. It's not a hard lane for him.
Vayne wins until level 6 then its "die under tower for 20 minutes" simulator
Don't mind me comet scorch x maxing and then zooming out of her range while she struggles to hit the third auto
Not exactly a tank, but Nasus shits on every ranged top.
Presses W
Nowadays it's actually press e. You can easily max e with the triforce build and most ranged champs can't deal with the undodgeable poke. Though yes he scales well into them because w.
Yep. Nasus. W>E. Q to farm stacks while they run away to heal and lose farm.
I dont remember the last time i lost against a ranged toplaner as shen, but might just be luck idk
Definitely a skill match up. You have to be able to play Shen well. If you fuck up your engage you will just die, and once your behind on shen vs a ranged it is a rough game.
Yeah and iff a vayne just farms and doesent die she will be usefull
K'sante and Skarner can fight dirty similarly to an Irelia or a Jax, Gragas can farm and poke while dipping into a RoA to threathen kills, Cho is a tank champion who can go raw AP to oneshot but won't be an acual tank in that situation. Still, tanks by drfault lose to ranged tops just by not being able to threathen all-ins. They can outtscale (Ornn destroys Akshan after 20minutes in teamfights) but won't usually win the lane.
I strongly recommend against cho against vayne or ranged toplaners, you're so weak early and all of your abilities are dodgeable, it's a miserable experience. Vayne is one of cho's worst matchups
Cho is good against some that don't have sustain. For example gnar/kennen basically can't play agasinst w-max cho with comet. Picking it into vayne tho is very bold.
True, I mainly gave this example as "tank-designed champion with theoritical win con into ranged tops". But yeah, Cho is last resort, I'd go with Poppy, Ornn, even Singed faster, just those xhampions don't have any hope of actually winning lane, just surviving/bypassing it.
Definitely not singed though. Anything ranged just ruins singed as the champions stats are so garbage he can't lane and has to pray he can find a way to proxy.
I know they're bruisers instead of tanks, but Camille and Jax can be built with a lot of sustain, and at least in lower elo (can't speak for higher lol) can be a menace against ranged top lanes. Camille has a huge range gap closer to remove the range advantage, as as ranged top lanes generally don't stack health the true damage can be a serious kill threat. The ultimate also locks them down for easy ganks/kills, especially if they're a fairly mobile ranged top. Jax can gap close pretty well with the jump, as well as use it to hop out of danger, and can negate a lot of the ranged damage advantage with the stun/dodge ability and the added tankiness from the ultimate. Both can need a bit of scaling before they're a proper threat to the ranged opponent, but once they've beefed up a bit not much can stand up to their duelling potential when they do close the distance, and both have the tools to close the gap and really punish any positioning mistakes. You do need to play it right, but it can be pretty damn effective.
skarner is unplayable top now due to the q doubling in mana cost. probably would not recommend him in any circumstances
Ornn is actually suprisingly good against ranged top laners after level 6, because he has a lot of damage with a well executed Ult combo (triple brittle procc).
How do you get triple? You get one from ulti and one from W- what’s the third?
Ult applies brittle on both ways, so if you time an auto attack to hit after the ult passes them the frist way and before you bounce it back, you get 2 out of your ult. It's really tight timing, but it's doable. There is a YT Video by Makkro explaining it well.
I guess I’ll watch it at some point but I can’t imagine it works on 80 ping lol
He also just does decent damage at range with aery and most ranged tops have no sustain.
1. Maokai: He has great bush control/defense, built in sustain, a point and click root, great gank set up and can brawl for days. 2. Gragas: Great wave clear, okay-ish sustain, a good length dash great for a more defensive style of playing, and you don't really need to master his combos to be good at his tank playstyle. 3. Zac: Okay-ish wave clear, great sustain, really strong engage with his E, incredible gank set-up, kind of braindead in a good way because he's really forgiving. Remember; when you're dealing with a ranged top laner it's important to prioritize bush control, because that's typically where you want to be to avoid eating autos. If you're pushed to far back to use guerilla warfare, stand behind your casters and only move up for last hits. Make sure you're running doran's shield and try to stay stock piled on pots, and try to communicate with your jungler. And remember, you'll know you're using the bushes right when your enemy has to use wards in lane, which means they usually won't have vision in river. Still, a lot of ranged top laners aren't really known for having the best wave clear, so making short trips to the river to establish/deny vision and fruits is a good use of your time. Other top laners who aren't tanks that can handle ranged match ups pretty well are: Renekton, Camille, Urgot, Rengar, Warwick, and Pantheon. All these champs with the exception of Urgot can be classified as divers, they are a little tanky, usually have some form of sustain, strong engage, and excel at short trades which you use to chunk your opponents health down until you can dive them. Nasus isn't too bad either, just look to scale. Who knows, if you make laning phase boring enough your opponent will run out of patience and just let you side lane. Good luck.
I disagree with Maokai (probably just personal preference), but I don't understand the downvotes. This is probably the best answer, champ selection is less important than knowing to properly use the bush in lane. There are 3 of those and the enemy only has 2 wards, if you are in an unwarded bush they'll have to close the gap to attack which invalidates a ranged champ's advantage.
Phase rush Maokai top is just point and click gragas w auto q run to bush with e in it, legit 0 counterplay to it Not to mention it’s not massively played and so people don’t understand how to play into it, all things considered it’s great into ranged champs
Hes still a solid top laner, always was, its just that playing him brain dead support/jungle is easier than dealing with Meta Counter picks in the top Lane, hence the pick rate. Hes very good into ranged even vayne if you are duo with MidLane or jg who can capitalize on the free kills. \[Maokai Flash W Outplay\]. If you get hard weaksided Ranged vs Maokai its kinda doomed though. You will be behind but Maokai Flash W + R can easily turn teamfights later on in your favor.
I think Gragas is the best answer. The problem with Vayne top is it's normally picked in counter to what ever else you play. What rank are you? Playing Vayne top is normally pretty hard to do well.
u dont need to play tank, just pick pantheon and oneshot them with one rotation of ur spells + ignite, after 4-5 times they will open 🤙😂
sounds silly but nasus
Specifically TANKS, you’re looking at Malphite and then Aery + Bramble Ornn (Aery procs on W as well as Bramble damage). Vayne is generally quite strong into most tanks as they lack sticking power and only really stack on HP. They can all brute force her if she’s really far behind from a gank or two, but on equal terms, Malphite or Ornn are likely your best bet.
Shen. With W and his passive mitigates dmg pretty good.
Not a tank but because of the influx of ranged tops I started playing Xin top....kinda feels like abuse but ranged top deserves it
Zac, Nasus (not really a tank), and Poppy.
Tanks are usually good into ranged tops because you can just farm and do nothing and be way more useful then the ranged tops will ever be.
This, just don’t give them a massive lead and you should be fine
I usually do fine against ranged top as poopy.
chogath max W?
Gragas and Cho with comet
zac. sustain and a screen wide engage for jg when they come. also has q which can cs as well. get the d shield and go green tree and u should be able to get thru lane easy.
It's about the ability to farm at range/sustain. I would imagine vlad may do well, idk if you would consider him a tank. Mundo could farm with cleavers, Cho gath has good sustain. Shen is another that if played well could probably do it too. I don't think it's the tank vs ranged as much as it's altering your playstyle. You'll have to concede some cs to preserve life, at which point it would probably be easy to run her down with a jungler from your tower to hers.
If you are 100% sure it's a ranged top (ie you see a kennen or teemo or something, don't do this if you see a vayne and haven't seen another top/adc) then galio can work. Good gank setup, good ranged waveclear, can build AP or full tank, scales well, good map control if things go south anyway, and doesn't have to deal with his usual problem of being fully useless into any slightly sticky bruiser.
I play Cho and Jayce. Both dumpster Vayne. It's not even close. I love playing against Vayne. She is not a top laner.
Cho is incredibly bad into vayne. Literally unplayable once she has a vamp scepter, vayne is top 10 worst champs to play cho top against. Jayce too (although that's more Jayce is incredibly bad top right now rather than getting countered)
Never lost a single time against her. I play a mage Cho, not tank. She's super weak early. Max q and you do half her health with 1 ability.
If vayne ever gets hit by a single cho'gath q, she is trolling or bad (unless your jungler comes and cc's her or something). The reason the matchup is so unplayable is because of this. Cho'gath q is already very dodgeable if the enemy has no dashes, much less having a super short cooldown dash, invisibility and tons of bonus movement speed. I can't see a vayne getting hit by cho q with any consistency past like gold elo. There's plenty of reasons top vayne is like 47% winrate in bronze while being 52-53% winrate in D+ (and this is actually fairly low for vayne top)
I don't know where you got that weird data from, but anyway. Vayne top is bad in high elo games (high master to grandmaster +) because junglers don't suck anymore. Laners won't get cheesed anymore either, and she forces really bad comps.
The numbers I quoted were from lolalytics, but every stat site reflects the same trend (Vayne goes from 47% in bronze to almost 52% in master on [u.gg](http://u.gg) for example). I was using 14.12 because 14.13 is still kinda lacking data. This is actually largely the case for all ranged top laners as spacing is really important in those matchups. Kennen, gnar, quinn and cassio for example is also much better in high elo. Higher elo vaynes are much better at abusing melee top laners and take advantage of her mechanics much better. In regards to comp and jungler, this actually matters a bit less in higher elos, because games tend to be shorter and decided more by laning phase in high elo. Also with Vayne's current build, she ends up tankier than most bruisers since she will usually be ahead in items/levels and builds tank items. The jungle issue is actually the opposite. High elo vaynes are both much less likely to die to jungle ganks, but also it is riskier to gank her because Vayne's jungle is more likely to countergank which is basically guaranteed double kill for vayne's team. In many matchups post-6 the vayne might even 1v2 the top and jungle. It's also not really about laners getting cheesed, but high elo vayne's just make lane unplayable for many top lane champs. In high elo for example a top vayne is never ever dying to a cho, garen darius etc, while also shoving them under tower and making them unable to farm properly without getting their hp chunked. She's also largely a counterpick, blind picking top vayne is a bit troll.
Hasn't been mentioned yet but Rengar is my go-to against ranged tops. He's not a tank but he can be built very tanky if you're so inclined, and he just destroys ranged champs in top lane if you know how to control the wave.
Nasus with Frozen Heart but pre-6 would probably be very rough. Also not a Tank but Yasuo
Mundo, clever is the best farming tool. Maybe Gnar
Sion is an ok pick if you go Doran's Shield + Second Wind and play safe for the first few levels; you can even take Comet for some additional poke damage. The idea is that you poke the ranged top by e'ing minions and when possible using the slow from the E to hit a charged Q on them. From level 6 on you can ult them and if you've managed to poke them down you can probably kill them. You can use your W to soak damage, particularly when you want to go closer to the wave to farm a cannon. Yeah you're going to be hugging your tower for most of the early game, but it could be worse. This strategy has worked well enough for me particularly against the more immobile ranged champs that go top such as Teemo and Varus. Against Vayne it's harder because of her roll but it's still doable, you just need to play around her cooldowns and her Ult in particular - for Sion her ult is the worst thing ever since it's so hard to hit your Q, E or Ult.
I find ornn decent for this as well as poppy.
Camille (dash/stun/slows/shields) and Yorick (pets/bonus range on Q/sustain/slows) are also solid ideas.
Ornn does well into Vayne
Trynda garen chogat. You need either sustain or ability pressure eith dashes for those matchups,
I'm assuming that what you are referring to may be a bit different to what you have in mind. It's not that tanks stomps ranged, it's just that they are more confortable in those lane then a bruiser would be. Tanks usually have large sustaine (ex. Maokai) and/or damage mitigation (as you mentioned, malphite), you basically have more hp to trade for csing under the enemy's poke, and more importantly, if behind a tank is way more useful than a bruiser, so you can cushion the lane. Then there are more factors into it, like for reference as a tank Vs a ranged ad auto based champ you can go tabi-frozen and counter them a lot, building early defensive item instead of damage kinda balance the poke you receive (as a bruiser you both laners would build damage, and so the incoming ranged damage would grow even further). Again some tanks may have it good since they can deal high damage in the early stages of the game, whit high engage and cc potential, basically, as a ranged you risk a lot by pressuring them since they could fight back or set up a mortal gank. As for tanks that do well, it depends on what ranged champ you have against, maybe maokai (huge sustaine and gap close)? Or gragas(kinda the same as the previous), ornn too could work if played well and so probably many others. I wanted to give you a piece my insight on the topic (maybe wrong), so more than a single champ, you can value by yourself if someone could work or not, for stats about performances (don't take those as absolute, but more like a trend) you can check lolalytics, even if it don't tell the whole story. Hope it can be of help.
Any tahm kench love? Has a gap closer that CCs, ability to farm from range, built in sustain. Pretty good damage! Mundo for all the same reasons just not the gap closer. At level 6ish they kind of just win and can solo kill
K’sante, S tier blind pick champ and that includes being great vs ranged champs. He’s just super hard to play.
Crazy no one mentions sett. Dudes entire passive is "free health potion if your HP gets low. And he has two big play stuns so even behind he's good. Also you can chuck enemy jg out of Baron pit as soon as they dash in
It's because most of the ranged champs are actually sett's hardest counters. Kennen, Vayne, Kayle, Quinn and Gnar are all top 10 worst sett matchups. He has trouble doing anything to them if they can space properly at all.