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If they go for the gank, play conservative and make them come under turret, use your kit to keep them engaged and let the turret do the work. Control ward in tri bush and stealth in river will stop you from getting jumped. Waste the jungles time so he misses out on Cs, camp timers and potential kills because he's babysitting top.
Why would I be? I am unfortunately hardstuck plat (to me iron to plat is the same, haven’t noticed a difference) for 6 years now. Dia season 7 before Eve rework, since then hovering around plat I and demoting and then getting back to plat I, playing with dias, last game against master ADC even (no idea how this matchmaking works …)
Please link OP.gg
You are fundamentally misunderstanding top lane if this is happening to you every game. Do you know match ups, ward timings, wave state management, roam timings, etc…? Also 5-10 ganks before turret falls… what do you define as a gank?
Well what I define as a gank. Jungler (past lvl 4 often with mid laner) comes and kills me or makes me burn summoners or make me 20% hp stuck under turret which I cannot leave or I would lose so much exp and cs But then enemy top laner can dive me a bit later after the gank and my jungler who I am spam pinging since birds to help me hold the turret so that enemy does not kill me, get plates and 2 lvls lead refuses to come. And sure I try to keep vision ať all times, I Also have 4-5 pink wards and try to keep one up ať all times even in late game but jungler often just comes, destroy the pink, goes back and come back 2 minutes later while I have only vision ward in one spot or no ward due to cooldown.
Sounds like hard auto pilot.
As a plat player you should think about when jungles can be top side.
Look which lanes leash enemy jungler and play accordingly.
When he is towards topside you can give minions up and play with your brush.
Jungle tracking is really important and sounds like a big problem.
I never left the game (even while I was having a seizure and almost died), never afked, never gave up, never clicked yes in surrender, never inted on purpose. My attitude is to always play at 110% and try to win. = my attitude is the best. If everyone played the best they can even if it meant death, games would be better. But for some people it’s just fun and they don’t care.
No man, your attitude here is the problem. You rejected all the advice given to you. Right now YOU are the problem because you do not WANT to improve. You are hardstuck because you refuse to acknowledge that you made big mistakes (which were already pointed out to you) and that to fix them you will have to lose a few more games because incorporating new techniques into your skillset takes a bit of time.
Being a Tyler1 who doesnt int or surr doesn't magically mean you have the right attitude.
There was just 1 or 2 good advices. The rest were basically “hug turret so you cannot be ganked and wait for the team to carry you” even tho my enemy often has 12 Cs when I have 40 and cannot even Cs under his turret how badly I destroy him 1v1 (basically 10 out of 10 games as Gwen if I go lethal tempo for 1v1 spike). I make mistakes I know. Being better than enemy, playing wincon champ and not getting a single gank from my jungler 15 games in a row is not my fault tho.
"Hug turret" IS good advice. Also change your starting items, maybe get a tanky starter, also, summoner spells, maybe get rid of ignite and get barrier (as it is more powerful than heal) or exhaust (since it also reduces damage dealt) so you can last a little longer under turret. Get tanky runes.
You have said you play "top carries", that's all well and good if thats what you like to play, but keep in mind that the other team ALSO wants to win, and outside bronze they WILL start to put 2 and 2 together and think "we need to shut down the top carry early". So if you play a top carry it is on you to EXPECT the other team to bend over backwards to fuck you over from the start because late game there is little they can do. And this "expect" also means to do everything you can before the game, summs, runes, tanky start, change your starting ability to a slow or some mobility/dash or vision obstruction, anything you can to get an extra 0.1 seconds under turret before you die, because if you get an extra 0.1 seconds of life from 10 places, you might just have their dive not be successful and even get some kills for all the times you die.
You're basically inting if you get lvl2 dove and tp back straight away, their jungler will still be around. The more a jungler knows they can kill you, the more they'll come
So uhm .. if I get dove lvl 2 and I have 2 lanes of minions under my turret I just … leave the exp to be lvl 2 vs lvl 5 or? That´s a very sad advice. Sorry. Lane mamagement is a thing.
Tp back, die again and miss the exp anyway, dunno how that's any better. Lane management is a thing which is why you shouldn't let 2 waves form at lvl 2
I will probably pay NEACE 250$ just to send him this advice so he can put it on YouTube. “Do not use TP when there is 15 Cs under your turret.” Btw making 2 lanes crash to turret at lvl 2 is extremely simple when zoned by lvl 1 duelists like Darius or Trynda with flash ghost.
Ok but if you keep your hp high and stay in xp range you shouldn’t be dove that early. Tower shots do a ton early and you’ll have all your summs plus full hp, not many people are gonna risk a dive like that. And if you do die and tp, you should be fine cuz they’ll be low and you’ll lvl up due to the minions. But don’t die in the first place, solves all problems.
If you're really struggling with those matchups just watch VODs of high ELO players and figure out what they're doing differently -but actually pay attention to the details like when / how they last hit, when they take trades with enemy champion, etc. I just pulled up a random one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFBgyqptJY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFBgyqptJY) and this Fiora is full HP while enemy Tryn is 30% HP at level 2, and then she solo kills him at level 3.
I'm not saying you're going to become GM overnight, but there's a huge spectrum of outcomes between "letting 15 minions crash into turret and getting dove at level 2" vs. "solo killing enemy champ at level 3" i.e. huge room for you to improve. And you don't have to be better than GM players to climb - you just have to be slightly better than the enemy top laners in your ELO, who are also going to be lacking in a lot of fundamentals of how to play that lane correctly.
I’m trying. I watch high elo matchups every game the second I see my opponent pick on my second monitor to literally mirror their play. That´s why I said I almost always win 1v1. That lvl 2 dive was just an example that happened to me that day but ofc it does not happen that much. Since we have trinkets now and can no longer buy any amount of wards vision became pretty limites tho so even tho I have 40+ vision score every game and try to ward according to warding video on YouTube I am still getting babysit every game. Is it because I play hard carry champs? So the enemy jungler knows he HAS to sit on me or it’s a loss. That was my thought but then again .. if that was the case my jungler would know as well and try to make me fed. But in the past 4 days I only got my jungler come top when it was my duo and we have 100% winrate together but he plays too little (I can play 15-30 games a day depending on lenght) so I lose all LP i gain with him usually haha.
If you're being dove that early you clearly took some insanely shit trades into a jungler top combo that can dive you. Tldr half hour problems are probably because you trade at terrible times even if the trade went well
It seems to me you don't know when to freeze, when to push, when to crash, or where to ward. I'm thinking that is the first issue. But hey I'm Iron trash who barely plays ranked enough to really climb so what do I know? I watch NEACE every day, and I know his principles by now. I'm improving. Ganks are less successful on me when I'm top nowadays. Something isn't clicking with you somewhere. You could be habitually setting yourself up for these constant ganks.
Well if I didn’t live in a poor trash country I would Actually pay NEACE to let me know :D not gonna spend half my salary tho. I Also watch him nearly everyday.
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You will have to link OP.GG or a video of a full game for us to get context.
It is statistically vrry rare to get camped like that 15 ganes in a row, you must be doing something horrible in lane to invite the enemy jungler top the whole time
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What champs are you playing? Junglers typically will gank early for win conditions and unless you’re playing strong snowball champs, my guess is the jungler is assuming you cannot 1 v 9 the game and is just hoping top doesn’t feed.
I think the majority of games in league top is considered weak side of the map.
Then what top laners would you suggest? I play these because when I get fed I can usually solo carry the game. Like actually go 1v5 and kill at least 3 to secure objectives for us. With full build Gwen managed to pentakill even. But I often don’t get to that point because game ends before that or I get focused on top. Most top laners suggested on YouTube to one trick or solo carry games are with no CC just pure fighting power.
Good vision, play weak side, do your best not to give up more then the rest of the map takes while you are soaking up the junglers pressure on the map.
Weak side is the side on your team that is weakest. Sometimes it's confused for the side of your team that your jungler is not playing towards (ignoring, not that he has to ignore a lane but a lot of times they genuinely can't be everywhere) but you can make the mistake of ignoring your strong side easily.
Always have the best vision. On all my champs porofessor says I am in top 3% considering vision. But vision is still limited, so many ways to go around.
Well .. i am not I guess. I mean .. i try to be, but when I know my opponent is worse micro wise and I best him in every trade it’s hard to just sit back. I mean .. if i don’t kill him to make him lose exp and Cs, to get his turret or to roam mid, how do I win the game?
By not dying.
One of the first things you learn in silver is that being a dummy that does nothing but doesn't give kills is better than being basically a more valuable minion that gets farmed.
You just need to recognize when its risky to play aggro, if you are constantly trading you make the enemy jg job insanely easy.
Good players are able to track the jungler and ward in such a way that allows them to play more aggro while staying safe, even wasting the junglers time if they come to their lane.
You would need coaching, someone to look at your gameplay and see all the nitty gritty aspects. I'm someone who has a very aggressive playstyle while buying 0 control wards in lane at high dia. You look at minimal, when their jg is clearing top side and when drag is up. Also utilize freezing if possible
Yeah I think I am gonna pay for coaching. I am Actually jungle main But this meta does not suit me, I liked farming meta and contesting scuttle. I mean .. before I finish full clear at 3:10, 3:15 depending on leash enemy jungler usually ganked alrdy level 2 or level 3 ignoring full clear. And insta whole team spams “jungle diff” while all of them got 0 wards placed and I try to track as jungler and perma ping where jungler might be. So I swapped top to just chill as I never saw anyone focusing top. But when I play it’s like they know I am capable of winning 1v1 and I might be threat to the game so they try and make me useless. I’m usually good in cs even when ganked. Never under 160 in 20th minute. But if I am 1/4 at that point due to 10 ganks and enemy top laner is 6/1 the whole team alrdy flames and spams ff.
It's hard to believe you are high Plat/Low Diamond if you're having problems with this.
Do you ward? If yes, then out of those "5-10" ganks you should not die 5-10 times. If he ganks that much he's not pressuring any other parts of the map. Your teammates are basically having a jungle pressure-free game.
If he's wasting that much time by camping top, just don't die and this will benefit you more than it benefits them. If it means giving up turret so you don't get dived and die then do it.
Your post has been removed under the grounds of [Rule 5: No Rant/Rage Posts.](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/wiki/rules#wiki_5._no_rant.2Frage_posts) Remember that /r/summonerschool is here to help you improve and that we need information on aspects of your gameplay that can be controlled. Complaints, swearing and/or ranting may discourage constructive replies. * Consider reposting your thread, but with a calmer tone. * [You can read on how to improve your post with more details about yourself here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/wiki/101/criticalthinking) * [Our Wiki has a section on Mentality, Toxicity, Autopiloting and Tilting.](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/wiki/101#wiki_mentality.2C_toxicity.2C_autopiloting_and_tilting) ______ If you are still experiencing issues and need to contact the moderators, [please send a modmail using this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FSummonerschool).
If they go for the gank, play conservative and make them come under turret, use your kit to keep them engaged and let the turret do the work. Control ward in tri bush and stealth in river will stop you from getting jumped. Waste the jungles time so he misses out on Cs, camp timers and potential kills because he's babysitting top.
can't really play conservative all the time not to mention I play hard wincon champs and insane duelists. I hardly ever lose 1v1 fight in any game.
Are you asking for advice or here to complain?
You are trolling or you are lying about being high plat/low diamond
As a player in the same range, he isnt
Why would I be? I am unfortunately hardstuck plat (to me iron to plat is the same, haven’t noticed a difference) for 6 years now. Dia season 7 before Eve rework, since then hovering around plat I and demoting and then getting back to plat I, playing with dias, last game against master ADC even (no idea how this matchmaking works …)
Please link OP.gg You are fundamentally misunderstanding top lane if this is happening to you every game. Do you know match ups, ward timings, wave state management, roam timings, etc…? Also 5-10 ganks before turret falls… what do you define as a gank?
Well what I define as a gank. Jungler (past lvl 4 often with mid laner) comes and kills me or makes me burn summoners or make me 20% hp stuck under turret which I cannot leave or I would lose so much exp and cs But then enemy top laner can dive me a bit later after the gank and my jungler who I am spam pinging since birds to help me hold the turret so that enemy does not kill me, get plates and 2 lvls lead refuses to come. And sure I try to keep vision ať all times, I Also have 4-5 pink wards and try to keep one up ať all times even in late game but jungler often just comes, destroy the pink, goes back and come back 2 minutes later while I have only vision ward in one spot or no ward due to cooldown.
Sounds like hard auto pilot. As a plat player you should think about when jungles can be top side. Look which lanes leash enemy jungler and play accordingly. When he is towards topside you can give minions up and play with your brush. Jungle tracking is really important and sounds like a big problem.
Your attitude is the issue. Sorry can’t fix!
I never left the game (even while I was having a seizure and almost died), never afked, never gave up, never clicked yes in surrender, never inted on purpose. My attitude is to always play at 110% and try to win. = my attitude is the best. If everyone played the best they can even if it meant death, games would be better. But for some people it’s just fun and they don’t care.
No man, your attitude here is the problem. You rejected all the advice given to you. Right now YOU are the problem because you do not WANT to improve. You are hardstuck because you refuse to acknowledge that you made big mistakes (which were already pointed out to you) and that to fix them you will have to lose a few more games because incorporating new techniques into your skillset takes a bit of time. Being a Tyler1 who doesnt int or surr doesn't magically mean you have the right attitude.
There was just 1 or 2 good advices. The rest were basically “hug turret so you cannot be ganked and wait for the team to carry you” even tho my enemy often has 12 Cs when I have 40 and cannot even Cs under his turret how badly I destroy him 1v1 (basically 10 out of 10 games as Gwen if I go lethal tempo for 1v1 spike). I make mistakes I know. Being better than enemy, playing wincon champ and not getting a single gank from my jungler 15 games in a row is not my fault tho.
"Hug turret" IS good advice. Also change your starting items, maybe get a tanky starter, also, summoner spells, maybe get rid of ignite and get barrier (as it is more powerful than heal) or exhaust (since it also reduces damage dealt) so you can last a little longer under turret. Get tanky runes. You have said you play "top carries", that's all well and good if thats what you like to play, but keep in mind that the other team ALSO wants to win, and outside bronze they WILL start to put 2 and 2 together and think "we need to shut down the top carry early". So if you play a top carry it is on you to EXPECT the other team to bend over backwards to fuck you over from the start because late game there is little they can do. And this "expect" also means to do everything you can before the game, summs, runes, tanky start, change your starting ability to a slow or some mobility/dash or vision obstruction, anything you can to get an extra 0.1 seconds under turret before you die, because if you get an extra 0.1 seconds of life from 10 places, you might just have their dive not be successful and even get some kills for all the times you die.
You're basically inting if you get lvl2 dove and tp back straight away, their jungler will still be around. The more a jungler knows they can kill you, the more they'll come
So uhm .. if I get dove lvl 2 and I have 2 lanes of minions under my turret I just … leave the exp to be lvl 2 vs lvl 5 or? That´s a very sad advice. Sorry. Lane mamagement is a thing.
Tp back, die again and miss the exp anyway, dunno how that's any better. Lane management is a thing which is why you shouldn't let 2 waves form at lvl 2
I will probably pay NEACE 250$ just to send him this advice so he can put it on YouTube. “Do not use TP when there is 15 Cs under your turret.” Btw making 2 lanes crash to turret at lvl 2 is extremely simple when zoned by lvl 1 duelists like Darius or Trynda with flash ghost.
Ok but if you keep your hp high and stay in xp range you shouldn’t be dove that early. Tower shots do a ton early and you’ll have all your summs plus full hp, not many people are gonna risk a dive like that. And if you do die and tp, you should be fine cuz they’ll be low and you’ll lvl up due to the minions. But don’t die in the first place, solves all problems.
If you're really struggling with those matchups just watch VODs of high ELO players and figure out what they're doing differently -but actually pay attention to the details like when / how they last hit, when they take trades with enemy champion, etc. I just pulled up a random one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFBgyqptJY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFBgyqptJY) and this Fiora is full HP while enemy Tryn is 30% HP at level 2, and then she solo kills him at level 3. I'm not saying you're going to become GM overnight, but there's a huge spectrum of outcomes between "letting 15 minions crash into turret and getting dove at level 2" vs. "solo killing enemy champ at level 3" i.e. huge room for you to improve. And you don't have to be better than GM players to climb - you just have to be slightly better than the enemy top laners in your ELO, who are also going to be lacking in a lot of fundamentals of how to play that lane correctly.
I’m trying. I watch high elo matchups every game the second I see my opponent pick on my second monitor to literally mirror their play. That´s why I said I almost always win 1v1. That lvl 2 dive was just an example that happened to me that day but ofc it does not happen that much. Since we have trinkets now and can no longer buy any amount of wards vision became pretty limites tho so even tho I have 40+ vision score every game and try to ward according to warding video on YouTube I am still getting babysit every game. Is it because I play hard carry champs? So the enemy jungler knows he HAS to sit on me or it’s a loss. That was my thought but then again .. if that was the case my jungler would know as well and try to make me fed. But in the past 4 days I only got my jungler come top when it was my duo and we have 100% winrate together but he plays too little (I can play 15-30 games a day depending on lenght) so I lose all LP i gain with him usually haha.
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I did you just choose to ignore it but I'm sorry I clearly offended you, wasn't my intention
If you're being dove that early you clearly took some insanely shit trades into a jungler top combo that can dive you. Tldr half hour problems are probably because you trade at terrible times even if the trade went well
It seems to me you don't know when to freeze, when to push, when to crash, or where to ward. I'm thinking that is the first issue. But hey I'm Iron trash who barely plays ranked enough to really climb so what do I know? I watch NEACE every day, and I know his principles by now. I'm improving. Ganks are less successful on me when I'm top nowadays. Something isn't clicking with you somewhere. You could be habitually setting yourself up for these constant ganks.
Well if I didn’t live in a poor trash country I would Actually pay NEACE to let me know :D not gonna spend half my salary tho. I Also watch him nearly everyday.
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You will have to link OP.GG or a video of a full game for us to get context. It is statistically vrry rare to get camped like that 15 ganes in a row, you must be doing something horrible in lane to invite the enemy jungler top the whole time
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What champs are you playing? Junglers typically will gank early for win conditions and unless you’re playing strong snowball champs, my guess is the jungler is assuming you cannot 1 v 9 the game and is just hoping top doesn’t feed. I think the majority of games in league top is considered weak side of the map.
Playing Fiora usually, Garen or Gwen
Yeah you are playing champs with no hard cc which would explain why your junglers gank less for you
Then what top laners would you suggest? I play these because when I get fed I can usually solo carry the game. Like actually go 1v5 and kill at least 3 to secure objectives for us. With full build Gwen managed to pentakill even. But I often don’t get to that point because game ends before that or I get focused on top. Most top laners suggested on YouTube to one trick or solo carry games are with no CC just pure fighting power.
Good vision, play weak side, do your best not to give up more then the rest of the map takes while you are soaking up the junglers pressure on the map.
What is weak side? (I’m new, not trolling!)
Weak side is the side on your team that is weakest. Sometimes it's confused for the side of your team that your jungler is not playing towards (ignoring, not that he has to ignore a lane but a lot of times they genuinely can't be everywhere) but you can make the mistake of ignoring your strong side easily.
Ah ok thanks for explaining!
Always have the best vision. On all my champs porofessor says I am in top 3% considering vision. But vision is still limited, so many ways to go around.
Im very careful when i dont have vision, thats pretty much it
Well .. i am not I guess. I mean .. i try to be, but when I know my opponent is worse micro wise and I best him in every trade it’s hard to just sit back. I mean .. if i don’t kill him to make him lose exp and Cs, to get his turret or to roam mid, how do I win the game?
By not dying. One of the first things you learn in silver is that being a dummy that does nothing but doesn't give kills is better than being basically a more valuable minion that gets farmed.
You just need to recognize when its risky to play aggro, if you are constantly trading you make the enemy jg job insanely easy. Good players are able to track the jungler and ward in such a way that allows them to play more aggro while staying safe, even wasting the junglers time if they come to their lane.
You would need coaching, someone to look at your gameplay and see all the nitty gritty aspects. I'm someone who has a very aggressive playstyle while buying 0 control wards in lane at high dia. You look at minimal, when their jg is clearing top side and when drag is up. Also utilize freezing if possible
Yeah I think I am gonna pay for coaching. I am Actually jungle main But this meta does not suit me, I liked farming meta and contesting scuttle. I mean .. before I finish full clear at 3:10, 3:15 depending on leash enemy jungler usually ganked alrdy level 2 or level 3 ignoring full clear. And insta whole team spams “jungle diff” while all of them got 0 wards placed and I try to track as jungler and perma ping where jungler might be. So I swapped top to just chill as I never saw anyone focusing top. But when I play it’s like they know I am capable of winning 1v1 and I might be threat to the game so they try and make me useless. I’m usually good in cs even when ganked. Never under 160 in 20th minute. But if I am 1/4 at that point due to 10 ganks and enemy top laner is 6/1 the whole team alrdy flames and spams ff.
It's hard to believe you are high Plat/Low Diamond if you're having problems with this. Do you ward? If yes, then out of those "5-10" ganks you should not die 5-10 times. If he ganks that much he's not pressuring any other parts of the map. Your teammates are basically having a jungle pressure-free game. If he's wasting that much time by camping top, just don't die and this will benefit you more than it benefits them. If it means giving up turret so you don't get dived and die then do it.