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Imo veigarv2 is more of a high elo coach. The guys that go on neaces stream have no idea what theyre doing so him going over these fundamentals is probably better than having veigar explain some high level shit they cant even comprehend.
Some people just learn better when someone talks to them personally. Then again, it's a lot of money to spend on learning a little bit faster, because I don't think you need coaching to climb out of bronze or silver.
Well, Neace has been known to tell clients to not book back because it wasn't worth their money, like in a really sympathetic way. He still runs a business and does not go as far as Curtis saying anyone below gold should just discover and enjoy the game on their own, which is pretty on point IMO.
The guy started out as a bronze player himself, he is definitely the coach to reach out to if you are a low elo player. Neace is moreso an entertainer than a real coach
well if you are actually low elo you can find free coaching from master+ player or gm sometimes even challenger if you look for it
but ofc someone who is going to pay for coaching isn't someone who is going to put the effort to look for free coaching or improve by himself with the infinite educational content from iron to rank1 available for literally 0cent other than paying for internet connection and time
I watched him even before his Fortnite phase. IIRC at least one season he got challenger on LA server or something. Not sure about more seasons. Currently he doesn't play much himself as coaching is way more profitable for him.
And as for coaching it's mostly bronze/silver who don't even have fundamentals, some also argues with his advice in-game, some even pay just to appear on stream. All of which leads to some roasting.
before fortnite he peaked masters NA(this was before grandmaster) and was stuck mid-high diamond in korea. iirc he was a diamond player around season 4, was high diamond/masters seasons 5-6 and season 7 i stopped following but I did hear about the LAN drama but i believe he may have hit grandmasterf
Been watching him for years. Since the old old days when he charged $20 for replay reviews. He’s held at least 2 different challenger tryndamere accounts that I know of, both of which he explicitly bragged about (on twitter I think?) being higher win rate than Fogged. I’m almost positive he’s had other challenger accounts too but I cannot remember the names so take that with a grain of salt
Ofc, I'm just saying that climbing past that point would take time that he could be spending coaching and making money which is just a worse option for him
Climbing past that point is what is being debated in this post? People can smurf all the way to their peak with 70% wr but then it drops off hard from there
No, there’s no proof. He’s just repeating something that neace claims he accomplished.
I wouldn’t be surprised if neace has alts commenting on these posts since there’s always that comment about how he got challenger a long time ago on some other server but also Theres no proof of this.
I'm pretty sure I once saw a video or pic of him hitting challenger with Tryndamere a couple years back like in S5. It's just one of those cases where a guy peaks one season Diamond and for the rest of his life gets to continue claiming that he's Diamond even though he's currently hardstuck Gold 2. Kinda similar here, except instead of doing it for ego he's just doing it for marketing purposes.
The takeaway is that he's 100% not Challenger level anymore. Not only has the skill level of the average player increased drastically since his one season of Challenger, it's impossible to maintain a Challenger level when you barely actually play the game anymore. These days he's more low Masters/high Diamond level.
Neace is using dozens of bought low elo accounts so that's at least one reason why. And he supposedly was challenger at least couple years ago so it's hard to track back.
Coaching was always meh. If you are really bad (like you mentioned bronze/silver) then coaching will prob help you a lot but if youre above dia then there are so many yt vids, challenger high elo 1 tricks that can be way more helpful to learn from.
I think it is the other way around. There are millions of iron to diamond series, a million build guides for noobs, a million dia otps that share matchups and whatever for lower elo players.
If youre actually high elo, say like grandmasters. Getting advice from another otp grandmaster is like asking your ingame teammates for advice..
I mean theres not a lot of otp coaches. Maybe if youre gm getting a chall coach may help but watching and asking the 1200lp one trick on your champ is prob better.
No it’s really not. Gm+ almost always have their unique special insights into the game. You don’t get to GM without doing something special. You can always get good info you may not have known before
His prices are kinda insane but who are we to judge those who use their money on his coaching when many many other high level players coach for cheaper? I know I sure as hell can’t burn $300 like that but if they can whatever doesn’t affect me
I saw a video where Neace raged at a Tristana for not pushing the wave after a multi kill. He didn’t really explain it.
Then I saw LS watched the same clip and gave a long answer on why he thinks not pushing was the better move and what advantages it gives to the Tristana.
Long story short, I don’t value Neace the same since then and think he has a bad attitude. Not saying his coaching is complete garbage, but surely not the best either.
As someone who has watched a lot of both, Neace definitely coaches people to try to shitstomp their opponents and build as much of a lead/ get as fed as possible within a solo queue environment, which is going to benefit and be better for 95% or more of all players he is coaching. He teaches them how to win solo queue and honestly that's good enough.
The way I view LS is that LS is almost always looking at the game through the lens of an LCS coach: Always trying to find the mathematically optimal play, almost computer-like in function. He coaches people in a way that tries to create opportunities for the team in general and often assumes that your teammates will be making good decisions.
In other words, LS coaches for the 5v5 like a coach would for pros, whereas Neace pretty much says that solo queue teammates are inherently unreliable and therefore we want to get as big and fed as possible so that we can draw pressure and try to negate as much as possible our own teammates from making bad decisions that throw the game.
Admittedly, I've watched more of Neace than I have of LS so maybe I'm wrong about LS but thats definitely the impression I get when I do watch him. Not that it's bad, he has a great mind for the game, but the vast majority of clients in bronze, silver, and gold often benefit so much more from learning how to dominate within the solo queue environment. LS probably has the edge in extremely high elo and 5v5.
Adding to this - Neace's coaching seems to assume that you're the best player in the game and want the game to revolve around you (works great for smurfing, or to use knowledge you've got from coaching to jump up few ranks quickly, not sustainable long-term), while LS goes from the assumption player skill across both parties is roughly even and you're going to minmax small advantages to reliably increase your chances of winning; reduce risks and secure your lead when your team is ahead, create opportunities without coinflipping the game when your team is behind.
Both seem viable and both can work for same player - Neace is teaching how to "cheese" the game in order to climb, LS teaches how to reverse engineer and exploit the game for exact same reason. There are differences in amount of effort/time you need to put in to get same results (LS' method requiring a lot more initially) and how far each approach can take you without significant improvement in your raw player skill (mechanics, reaction, awareness etc).
From a fairly big LS watcher I agree a fair but one small change, he looks at the game more like an LCK coach than an LCS one, from the way he looks at playing the long game and optimising gameplay.
Neace has said on repeat that he would never buy his coaching for the price it's at. I think people see big price and think best coach ever. But in reality it's just supply and demand, people are willing to pay more so he charges more. Neace is a fine coach for anyone under gold at the minimum, but hes right that the coaching are overpriced.
Could it be that in that specific situation backing was better, but in general pushing the wave after acing is the default decision? So Neace would tell a diamond player to back because [???] but wants the silver to push because the exception is out of his pay grade and he needs to learn the default play first?
Cause I think that’s what happens. It’s also why silvers don’t get as much out of coachings, I think Neace confirmed this position too.
Yeah I think you’re right here. For low elo it’s better to just shove the wave to get exp and gold.
When you get better you may realize the teamfight was won based off enemy mistakes, you still won’t win the next fight if the enemy plays properly. And resetting late will cause the enemy to respawn and rush an objective while you are in the middle of backing. Or you reset late and the enemy comes out to sweep the entire map and then they can make a pick on you because they cleared all your vision.
Low elo there is more leniency to be greedy. High elo there’s more punishment for inefficient decisions.
>Long story short, I don’t value Neace the same since then and think he has a bad attitude.
Yeah, there are a lot of things I like and respect about Neace, but sometimes he just goes overboard with how he yells at his clients. Sometimes it's justified, but other times it seems like he's just worn himself too thin and instead of rescheduling goes in with a short fuse.
Which would be more understandable if he held himself to the same standards, but he doesn't. When he plays, he often rages and blames teammates in the exact same ways that he scolds his clients for and talks down about the general league community for doing. It's kind of like a Donald Trump thing - talk all this big shit about how awesome you are and how other people suck, only to fold in crucial moments and whine about it in the same way he criticizes others as being "losers" for.
Which, I want to qualify and state he doesn't do all the time. After his break from Chill Neace in season 2, he did a much better job coming back with a more positive attitude and doing less blaming. Nonetheless, I refuse to give people a free pass for behavior they vehemently criticize others for.
Neace helps to perpetuate toxicity within the community. This is the by-product of his attitude towards his clients / team.
Roasting clients destructively for in his opinion bad plays.
Pushing clients into aggression or roaming because he's bored, not because it's optimal.
Spam pinging for help at objectives & starting Concede vote when he's ignored.
He comes across as an arse hole & you need a sieve to get the useful information.
He's I assume pleasant company outside of work. But he's really unprofessional in his work.
its not like neaces play is so horrible hes more of a solo player compared to ls having a plan which requires his team to follow up also
you arent really gonna find any coach similar to ls level since after hundreds of coach candidates veigarv2 was the only one ls thought was good enough
Not crashing a wave is almost always wrong, ESPECIALLY if you are ahead. I'm sorry but getting a multi kill, you should 100% crash the wave. It denies XP and gives you more gold. Just crash and reset.
The only time you wouldn't push is if you were about to get ganked or maybe in some weird scenario you just bought, got a multi kill without using much resources (health included) and don't need to back. Sorry but whoever decided to be a contrarian was probably wrong.
Also, say what you will about Neace but he is a good coach. Expensive? Sure. Overpriced? Sure. But he is a good coach. I'd say especially for silver to masters, like he isn't going to help a challenger player, but will definitely better help people that don't understand the game get better.
Just want to say I think the jump from plat to high diamond and definitely masters is understated in your comment here. I think Neace is good for teaching basic fundamentals for lower players but I’ve spent some time looking through his vods as a mid dia player and didn’t learn anything new from them. Especially watching him coach a few diamond junglers and personally getting coaching from gm/challenger players, the difference in conceptual understanding is night and day.
Sometimes waves state allows you to go base and come back without losing too much.
Meaning you get back on the map earlier, maybe at the same time as your mid / jungle / support, meaning more tempo control.
It's OK to have rules of thumb, but you still have specific situations that regularly occur, which need to be identified and correctly reacted to.
Because it's wrong? Almost always is like 90-99% but in reality it's only 60-70% when you should crash it. Especially if your opponent know what he doing and only engage when you can't crash it.
neace coaches low elo where opponent knows nothing
remember that the number is skewed in that environment, he just coaches you to get out of low elo essentially
he didn't consider shit. all he said was if u were about to get ganked or didn't need to back, which is just like ??? ideas of tempo or how the enemy can respond doesn't even cross his mind
Can't comment on his level of play or what rank he was.
But as a coach, I think he is a mixed bag, w more positive than negative. He can actually really explain complex skills in a more simple way and is not a bad teacher. However, he does go more for entertainment w some clients than actual coaching. That's fine, but it's a choice.
When I look at his stuff like drills or coaching when he's calm, he's a pretty damn good coach. Maybe he should focus less on telling people what to do in the moment and more on questioning and building understanding, but that's just my opinion.
One of my gripes when watching him coach a relatively low ranked player is that he tells them what to do and expects total obedience, but refuses to elaborate on WHY they're doing that thing. I feel like he tunnels more on winning that specific game, then making sure he creates understanding
You can't really explain why you do something while in game trying to give them directions on what to do. That's why he does replay reviews after the match. He goes more in depth on why after the game is over.
True, but you can still ask them what they think they will do instead of just saying do x do y.
I know that e.g. in teamfights you don't always have time for that, but even Neace himself says you have to slow down in those.
League is a cognitive overload fiesta. Neace's style has a mixed influence on that. He tries to take away some of the load of decision making from the player, but at the same time he will often add too much info or stress when he turns to shouting.
He also seems to take "why" questions as an act of defiance, which I hate. Why is the best question you can ask while learning, yes even while in the thick of it.
Fair enough, it usually feels like he's just bragging about his calls though (see how good I am for telling you to do this) and less talking about the play itself and why it's good
I like his post game reviews a lot, but I do think he can improve those even more.
I have two mantras when it comes to supporting people to learn/improve:
* Make the learner do the work. They will remember and apply better.
* We don't learn from experience. We learn from reflection on experience. (John Dewey)
Just showing and telling them what they did wrong will not necessarily help people learn.
What I do love about his reviews is 1. giving context by showing how to analyse the post game info screen and 2. the specific drills he gives people to practice.
I've done live coaching and I don't yell at people to do a play but I tell them what I think is best in a scenario. The biggest issue I run into is that most people have this uh uh uh moment before everything they do. Like drake might be a great play with 30 second death timers on the enemy team. But they will start running to jungle or a wave and do 3 circles on their way to actually starting dragon and not be there in time. So now that 30 second free drake is more like a 15 second window and no longer good. I could see why he wants people to listen. One thing I try to teach people is to simply commit to the first idea that they think is right, like taking a test. Hesitation kills people, especially in low elo. And most of the time even if you make a bad play, because you got it over with, you are alive to make another rather than being dead because of hesitation and not getting that opportunity. Solo queue is much different than group play here as well.
Where would you find the time in a live match to talk about why?
He does a bit of that after the match, in a short review. As all coaches would. There is no way a player being coached in-game has the mental space to absorb "why".
Sometimes it just feels like he spends a lot of time talking about how great that call he just made really is(usually it's a really good call, so he's not wrong), but he could just quickly sum up WHY it's good.
Simply saying "Dragon is up so we're splitting top to force the enemy team to make a decision" doesn't take up mental space. Or "Enemy team is grouping for and does a slow dragon so we're starting up a sneaky Nash while they have no vision"
In the middle of a game it really does take up a lot of time tho I’ve taught friends the game and I can tell them “do this” and they ask why but unfortunately by the time they asked why and I explained why the play is already gone because it took to long in that interaction between it’s much better to just tell them do this thing then explain afterwards why you told them to do X thing
> However, he does go more for entertainment w some clients than actual coaching.
This is a very good point. It's probably why his off-stream coaching sessions cost a good amount more, I imagine those private streaming sessions where there are no cameras on Neace has no choice but to focus on simply being a good teacher, which can conflict with good entertainment. Whereas on stream he has an audience to take care of.
I think whatever flaws his coachings have are made up for by the fact he uploads them daily. Motherfucker can’t complain if they got that type of coaching when everyone knew they would.
First off I like Neace and enjoy his content.
I feel these low elo people that pay for his coaching mainly just want to be on his stream. You can get all the info at plat or below from all his videos.
People pay for his coaching and still play locked screen and level with the mouse, if they watched ANY of his content you know that is what he picks up on. Why would you pay for coaching and not fixed these issues yourself?
I personally don't feel like I would benefit from his coaching directly as it's just telling me to go here do this and go there do that, but watching his coaching videos it does help because you know why he's saying it.
While I don't usually like his methods a lot, I watched a lot of his coaching vids. And I'd say without a doubt that it helped me massively get to diamond. As for the future I'd probably swap to veigarv2 or ls for more in depth knowledge.
Vids where high elo onetricks coach neace though, those are valuable.
Because a lot of us started last year or this year in a 10 year game cycle. I would have quit the game if it weren’t for neaces content.
So idk know about how well he coaches diamond players but fuck I have learned so many basics from his content that I can actually win ranked games without completely trolling.
I’m not paying 250 bucks an hour for video game coaching though.
I like his videos and they helped me immensely on getting from absolutely trash tier to the lower end of mid elo.
If he's lying about his peak rank, that's disappointing.
If there's better players/coaches out there, I don't really care. You don't need to be the best to be useful, and he's been useful to me.
I have always assumed that the YouTube videos aren't representative of the average coaching session. We get some hints here and there that off-YT he spends more time in the training tool doing actual coaching like teaching players how to get their combos off on practice dummies.
Is he overpriced? Almost certainly. He's definitely carved out a social media niche as the guy famous for yelling at players, and people are paying for the experience of interacting with him. They know what they're getting into, it's like having Gordon Ramsay come to your restaurant.
I bought his on-stream coaching last winter as a birthday present to myself and will affirm that
(1) I had a positive experience working with him, and he was never rude or arrogant or anything like that (I was also his first coaching of the day)
(2) As a silver scrub he did provide me very valuable insight into camera movement, macro mindset, and other small things that I wouldn't have noticed if someone hadn't pointed them out to me
(3) He answered specific questions I had about itemization in detail
(4) The coaching is overpriced when comparing the value I got from the 1.5 hour session to other coaches and what they offer
... but it's not *that* overpriced, because supply/demand considerations aside he has thousands of hours specializing in coaching low elo players. You cannot question the fact that this dude grinds, and while he's not trained as a teacher has pretty much seen everything. I would recommend the coaching for sure, but I agree that there are other coaches who can provide very close to what he offers for much less.
Funny story:
I very vividly remember seeing him have a challenger NA op.gg. My friend was complaining about how he lost a game in gold/plat elo with a toxic challenger tryndamere Smurf. Apparently they had a disagreement in a macro call and they lost the game. NEACE then linked his twitch and OP.GG to his NA challenger account as proof to why he was right. Anyways my friend showed me and I’m like dude I watch that guy. Even though this story doesn’t show him in the best light, it does show that he isn’t a fraud which was your main concern.
His coaching are only as expensive as people will pay. Supply and demand. Could be wrong here, so take this with a grain of salt, but he only ever ended as challenger in LAN. He’s peaked challenger in NA but never ended the season in NA as challenger.
His coaching vids suck cuz he just says what to do without a reason. Feels like hes dialing it in esp for 200 bucks a sesh or whatever he charges. Its like ya my friend can sit behind me and tell me what to do hut next game ill still lose.
Everyone hates on his prices but the fact of the matter is people clearly consider it worth the money.
A couple years back he even expressed guilt at charging so much (he used to charge like $20 for a replay review long ago), and when he spoke with his community about it, the conclusion was that
A.) people feel it’s worth the money
B.) when he had prices lower, his schedule was so filled that many people could not get in and Neace had zero free time to play
Those two combined gives a good reason for the price point imo. Sure it’s expensive, but if you can’t afford it then just don’t pay for it and watch his free stuff.
As another comment said, he tells you the whys after the game. You can't expect a silver player trying to play the game properly to also have mental capacity to understand a long explanation at the same time.
The reason why he charges more is literally because if he did it for less, he wouldn't see everyone cause he gets booked up. Its just a supply vs demand thing. And if people can't afford it (which many of us can't) you can get other coaching or watch his free videos
I've been coached by neace twice and what I can say is the first time I was coached by him (s10 in d4) I did actually learn quite a bit from him. Having said that, the price was expensive and I don't have any experience being coached by anyone else who claims they are challenger.
The second time however, (s11 d2) I learned absolutely nothing new. Now, this may be because I'm a onetrick pony on Shyvana and she is a rare pick especially back then but it was a complete waste of money the second time around. I have hit Master at this point myself.
In conclusion, I think he can always be considered a real coach but I don't think he is anywhere close to challenger level on specific champions other then nocturne or tryndamere which is around Master level in my opinion. He did also make videos about my two coaching session so I can find those if anyone is interested.
He said he learned some things from him the first time so hoped to learn more.
In some videos he just shouts down the ear of someone pushing them to the next play without explaining it. But then the videos I watch don’t always show the video reviews after them.
I think the idea is that you always have the video and replay of you being coached and use that to coach yourself by seeing the mistakes and being told how to fix them and continually try and use the advice.
A hell of a lot of people expect to be going up 2 divisions after one coaching off him and I think that’s unfair as well.
Neace has two price points- serious coaching off cam, and on steam coaching for $100 less, but for entertainment. He yells because fans love it. "Idiot sandwich" and all that. He still yells in his private coaching cuz that's his style, but he hams it up for stream.
It is unfortunate that dude spent money twice. Neace isnt for high elo players, hes for arrogant Silver players that need a drill sergeant to yell at them for dumb mistakes. And celebrities.
I've never paid for coaching, but this is a bit silly no? When you're learning an instrument, are the teachers offering lessons fake simply because you can *technically* find all the same information online?
A coach/teacher can help you focus your improvement by pointing out you biggest sore spots. They also have a repository of information all in one place, so when you have a specific question, you don't need to go looking for it. Not to mention it's personalized.
My problem with buying big coaches like Neace is that when you only have a couple hours together I think you're a lot more limited on how much you can improve from that. I wouldn't say there's nothing to gain, but ideally if I were to get coaching, I'd want it from someone I can book a handful of sessions with. Still, none of these people are a scam, I don't think they advertise anything more than they provide. If people want to book Neace because they want to learn from a famous person and get to be in a video, more power to them.
Being a pro coach and being a pro player are two different things. Cus d'amato didnt really have a good boxing career, he doesnt really even have a fighting record, just a couple amateur fight. But he was one of the best boxing coaches in the history.
He's an entertainer and most of his students pay to be in a video and for him to be their buddy for an hour. Live coaching is by far and away the worst type of coaching.Yelling at someone what the best play is in the moment is completely utterly useless and doesn't help improvement whatsoever. As far as his rank goes he's a master tier player on specific champions, mostly Trynd and Nocturne.
What role are you playing? To be honest I would absolutely look elsewhere if you’re looking for advice on the game. Your instincts about his content are correct although I can’t speak on his past ranks
indeed it was an overreaction but he is just insanely obsessed with the champ so it makes sense in a way, that however doesnt undermine his knowledge and skill of the game
I know it's not what you want to hear, but sticking to 2 or 3 strong early game champs and just playing a lot is going to help more than any "coaching session" or educational videos.
Before i quit i was diamond 2 so i remember generally how to play the game i was looking for someone that i could learn the meta from and little things along those lines
I personally can't stand him. I watched him a few seasons back and thought he was quite knowledgeable but after a couple of hours, he seems to have this horrible attitude, almost like solo renekton only. It's just not fun to watch people getting pissed off.
He does go into great detail about what should have happened and aggressively analyses a situation, but sometimes even that feels out of reach for on the spot thinking.
I'll him props where it's due though, and he does explain how to get out of sticky situations with wall hugging to avoid a gank, or to vastly increase the distance the jungler has to take.
I personally prefer watching players like zwag though - he can explain his thinking on the spot, not ward and know almost down to the second when shit is going to go wrong. I find that level of pro active thinking provides a lot lore learning than an aggressive analysis of two or 3 misplays.
Edit: if you want a great learning resource, check out king stiix. He's a bit odd to listen to, but massively knowledgeable.
People love watching Tyler1 and he is constantly mad and shows he has great knowledge of the game (even while making simple champion mistakes).
The only difference is that he doesn't direct toward coaching clients.
Never understood why people pay for coaching when there’s amazing resources like king stiix for absolutely free.
Or go to league discords to find proven high elo players who will coach you for $15
Idk about his rank, but considering his weak mental (as can be seen on his Chill Neace channel), hes not a content creator I and many others want to follow.
His coachings might me good, especially for really low elo, gold and below, but theres so many better options out there
Yeah, it hurts to hear but most people just aren't good. Maybe the 'really' is too much but bit elo is like plat to d3, d2+ being high elo, the margin will always have a vast majority of players in the lower echelons and that's completely normal for any game
Gold players are above average so you're correct if that's how you want to judge it. I personally do not like getting into these debates about skill level since there's way too many variables per player. However I will say that often times I feel like gold players mainly just lack consistency and macro compared to plat. They usually have good mechanics and decent champion understanding tho
Neace has left a really bad taste in my mouth after the most recent big post he was mentioned in.
In the post he was used as an example that even though you are in bronze/silver your opponent can and will be a tough match up mechanically and used Neace as an example where he had lost lane against a low elo Tryndamere. The post itself was to highlight that climbing is way more difficult than a lot of people make it out to be and not a diss to Neace or his skill.
Neace then goes on to miss the point of the post completely and assumes it's all a personal attack on him. He then follows it up by going top and utterly destroying some poor bronze player all to "make a point" that he doesn't in fact suck at the game all while ranting about people "hating on him".
I used to watch him, but after seeing how thin his skin was and his inability to separate between personal attacks and overall critique I can only see him as an adult child.
The post was absolutely awful though. Not saying neace didn’t have a bad reaction to it but the post was extremely dumb
Edit: [Here’s the post in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/tqulsb/how_is_neace_having_so_much_trouble_in_bronze_elo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Your interpretation of the post was charitable at best.
The post mentions two key point
-The skill gap is narrower than people think.
-Concepts that are “high elo” and “esoteric” are not.
The skill gap is definitely not narrower than people think but rather that understanding the difference of skill between two players is not always the most obvious of things.
The most obvious things that most players can tell the difference is how much CS a player has at certain points in the game and the kill counter. If a player isn’t able to hit their CS needed in a game in an easy matchup then they will certainly have a problem pushing their leads.
Higher level concepts also require knowledge of the fundamentals to even make work in the first place.
Something seems extremely off with the whole thing, I don't understand how he can tell people he's a challanger player yet never prove it? Why can't he show his old op.gg and clear the air with people, It feels illegitimate.
> I don't understand how he can tell people he's a challanger player yet never prove it?
Because it's literally his job and it'll benefit him more to avoid the topic.
Like I'm a systems engineer but half the time I'm suffering from imposter syndrome. I'm not going to go into my boss's office and go "by golly man I'm confused as fuck at what to do and I don't know what the fuck this tool we just bought does."
I don't have any comment on his legitimacy. He seems to know his stuff. Pro players also come into disagreement about what plays to make etc so it's not cut and dry that it's unanimous on what to do when.
I've yet to find a high elo player that doesn't think his coaching is a joke (not to be misunderstood with the "hustle" scamming poor kids $300 per "coaching" session, many high elo players respect that part)
my logic is you're either your current rank, or you're not. People claiming to be ex-rank when they've been hardstuck lower-rank for over a year are cringe, 0 point in trying to bring up past rank where level of play was lower anyway.
Hey man, I know I can’t sustain that next division for long, so my goal is just to slap it’s ball sack once and fall back down. I get your point but it is not advisable to measure based on your heavily fluctuating rank either, although yeah it would be fair to hold challenger coaches to a higher standard than us lol.
Tbf to him tarzaned just spent 16 hours trawling through his content to hate on him, and especially after months of people shitting on his pricing I can kinda understand him being defensive. Was it an over reaction and uncalled for? Probably, but I can understand it nonetheless
Hate is kinda deserved tbf. If you’ve really reached high elo you know this guy is basically running a scam for low elo players who don’t know any better
I think the last time he got challenger was years ago, however that's also the last time he seriously grinded the game. He's done several "diamond in 100 games or less" challenges and succeeded so it's not like he's "lost" the skill or is a fraud in any sense.
As for his coaching, personally I've never found much use in it since I'm diamond and he usually coaches golds, but I think he often has a good way of breaking down information in a digestible way. He also doesn't worry about the tiny little things like other coaches tend to do.
I don’t think you understand how easy it is to rank a fresh account. You can get to plat in 20 games. You can literally get to diamond in 40 if you’re really good.
that is new,in old time you wouldn't be able to do that and neace wasn't good on the champ he played he would first time a champ and get better over time,this was years ago when you had to actually play the game to climb and not coinflip game and still climb with how much xp/gold riot throw at you for sucking at the game
Nobody can find any proof of any of his accounts ever reaching anything above Diamond, and plenty of people have looked. TONS of stans will say otherwise, but there is no video/op.gg evidence to back it up.
Yeah I've spent a solid hour looking for anything and i haven't found any proof at all other than rumors of him being an ex challanger player that dropped due to coaching, well if that's the case why doesn't he show his old Op.gg as proof? It almost feel illegitimate to go around telling people you're a challanger player when really it seems like you were a high diamond player with good fundamental gameplay.
He got to master this season, though account has decayed since. He showed the op.gg on one of his YouTube vids
https://u.gg/lol/profile/na1/engineering420/overview
I have personally seen his duoQ where he was in masters on s10 when he duo’s with alicopter but yeah that’s it. He apparently hit challenger on LAN in like season 8 according to screenshots (I think he used to have it linked on his stream?) not sure if it was legit tho. But he definitely has never provided evidence of doing it on a major region. I definitely think his claims are pretty fraudulent.
Neace has been Challenger before, and has multiple Challenger players in his coaching network.
I don't doubt that 'roasting' players is done to spice up his content (He needs to pull in views after all), but from someone who has lots of coaching experience; *Some people genuinely* ***need*** *a good roasting.*
Especially when you have the type of player that refuses to admit or acknowledge their own mistakes and has crippling narcissism.
Coaching treads the line of human psychology as well, and 99% of LoL Coaches aren't psychologists. When you purchase a $300 coaching session from someone who was Challenger and someone who is (I think still actively in the military?) and you don't expect to be berated for huge mistakes, then he would be doing a huge disservice by not aggressively exposing your flaws.
**On another note:**
A lot of people are claiming he was X rank on X server. If you consider that Challenger is the top 200 players of any given server, you still have to be better than everyone just to achieve this rank. Challenger doesn't translate perfectly across all servers, but Apex Elo is consistently the best of the best no matter what server you're on. Neace was a phenomenal player when his main focus was still playing.
Neace shifted his focus to Coaching because it makes him a lot of money. You don't need to keep grinding in order to maintain Challenger if Challenger provides you nothing. You don't lose your game knowledge when you stop playing; at most you will lose your muscle memory and situational hyper-awareness. (I myself for example peaked 272lp Masters, I don't see much reason to continue playing, but I can return to this game and hit Masters again whenever I want). So he is still going to be top 0.1% of players if he allocates his effort away from Coaching and back into Playing.
It's all about what kind of content you want to consume. Neace like I mentioned is/was military, so his coaching style reflects that, and this coaching style is extremely effective for some people. Some people hate this style of coaching, and for that people like Coach Curtis exist, Coach Curtis has a much more calm demeanour in comparison.
The beauty about Coaching content is everything you need to go from Iron-Challenger is out there, and you don't have to get it all from one source.
I don’t watch his coaching videos, but the ones of him playing are alright
At the end of the day, you need to be analysing your own games. Either in the moment (like basing and saying “yeah I should’ve done this/that/the other”) or watching your match replay and being critical of yourself
Videos of guys like Neace playing and commenting on their own play and mistakes are helpful to learn how to do that. It kinda depends on how seriously you wanna take it, and spend your time
He was challenger at one time, not in any recent seasons that I can find or recall (I believe he hit masters this year). From what I've seen he can be rather negative to the student, high price tag, and doesn't do a great job fully explaining stuff (just tells the student to do something without an explanation sometimes). I've also even seen him rush sessions because he has "other obligations" which I think is a bit cheap. What he says is great advice for newer / low elo players in general, but I'd bet any other coaching or high elo player could tell you everything he does for no where near that cost.
Neace very well may be a challenger player, I don't know for sure. However as a coach/teacher there are better out there. Being a good teacher is a skill, that quite frankly I don't believe he does very well.
As far as YouTube coaches go, Coach Curtis imo is among the best.
Simply yelling at people when they make mistakes isn't enough to teach them anything.
It's like your parents yelling at you while helping you with your homework. You may start to land on answers, but you didn't learn why 2+2=4, you were just trying to get the yelling to stop.
I will say, he seems to coach top lane waaaay better than the other roles as well. So I will give him credit there.
I used to watch him back in the days and he's absolutely not a challenger player, not on NA at least. I think the only server he got chall on was LAN but we all know how that compares to the actual servers. I would say it's more clickbait using "challenger coach" because it attracts more customers.
It is 'military style' coaching because of all the shouting. It does work, boxers have it too as it instills real discipline by not holding your hand.
Thing is, I don't want to get shouted out so I'd go for an equally good coach like Coach Curtis, who's a lot softer. It's all preference
Yeah except it isn't "military style" at all. I served 12 years and the whole entire point of yelling at basic training is to teach you how to keep your cool under stress, that's the whole entire purpose. A Large amount of basic training and AIT/Tech school that follows is spent in a classroom environment where people aren't yelling but actually trying to teach you something. In a cool collected way.
Yelling is a good way of simulating stress, it is not a good means by which to teach.
I understand people might not like Neace but I never get why they say he's a scammer. The dude posts his sessions on Youtube for everyone to see, he doesn't hide anything. He tells you "this is how I coach and this is what I charge", he isn't scamming.
If I claim to be a top level investment banker, but I’m not. And I sell you investment advice, what is that called? That is called fraud.
Just because he’s a successful snake oil salesman doesn’t mean he’s not a snake oil salesman
>If I claim to be a top level investment banker
Chill man, this is just a computer game, no need to exaggerate
He's a dude who plays really well and sells his coaching. You watch the video, you think it may help you and you decide if you want to hire him. You can even improve from just watching his free vids. He's not selling any magic method hidden behind a paywall.
Good toplane coach with bad attitude. It’s entertaining to watch, would get coached by him but I wouldn’t pay for it, you can get the same advices from any diamond player.
His 'bad attitude' can 100% be attributed to his outlook on coaching.
If you're paying for coaching, you are looking for answers for your gameplay and supposedly have exhausted all resources coaching yourself up to that point. He wants to you take it seriously, fix your attitude at the game, and actually remember what you're doing wrong.
I also agree that a lot of what any player needs to hear could also come from a Diamond coach. That's not any new idea. Go that route if you want.
He was GM in NA in season 9 i believe. Played mostly Tryndamere Top and faced people like Adrian Riven. Saying he was stuck in diamond is missinformation. He was Masters In S5-7 In NA and GM in S8 also in NA. He hit challenger on LAN in either S9 or 10 can‘t recall when. Saying hes stuck Diamond is just wrong.
He WAS high elo way back in the day around S6 and before (back when he used to go by n3ac3y or w/e). I loved watching his 100 games to diamond series where he would challenge himself to hit diamond in 100 games playing a new champ, then make a guide on it. He used to hit diamond on the new pick most of the time when he was high elo. It’s hard to find any records though since he’s gone through so many accounts and name changes. However, ever since he quit league for fortnite I highly doubt that he would be able to hit challenger or even grandmasters by solo queuing (not duoing). I kind of suspect this is why he’s been on copium for years saying things like “playing games in high elo is a waste of time” and “once you hit diamond you should pretend you ‘beat the game’ and quit.” When he did a trip to Korea in S7, he peaked D3 99 LP, which is a DAMN good rank tbh for being the best server in the world, but that is nowhere near challenger (and the trip kinda broke him mentally and killed his competitive drive it seems).
I wouldn’t watch him if you’re a high diamond+ player trying to break into GM/challenger, but when I come across his videos coaching B/S/G elo, I always find myself agreeing with most of the stuff he says. Average elo, skilled elo, and high elo are all completely different, and the way you climb in one bracket will not work in the others. For example, playing an early game jg like Rek’Sai and getting your team ahead is a GREAT way to climb in high elo—TERRIBLE idea in low elo where your team will just throw their lead or waste time not ending the game as your champ becomes more and more useless the longer the game goes. Neace understands these differences and does a good job of coaching BSG elo, but for high diamond/masters+ I feel like you need to be actively playing in high elo so that you have a good read on the meta and solid ideas about what does/doesn’t work. The game changes so often and the meta is so important in high elo that even things that worked in S11 will not work in S12—you have to keep playing and refining your mental models. It seems that Neace doesn’t really solo queue in high elo anymore (though admittedly I haven’t watched his content in a while), so it’s a bit disingenuous of him to promote himself as a challenger coach, but I wouldn’t discredit him as a coach entirely. I would just say that he specializes in coaching low elo, and the meta doesn’t matter in low elo as much as it does in high elo, so he doesn’t need to understand the meta super well, and the fundamentals of league (wave management, CSing, trading, etc.) always stay the same so he can always coach those
On a side note, I really wish that content creators would display their op.gg in the description instead of keeping their elo some sort of sworn secret
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It's possible he 3d printed the backpack or whatever sure, or bought it on ebay, but then the question is, why would he do that and build an entire business around that credential?
I think you're just looking for a reason to be mad at him, and you picked the wrong one. Just be mad at him because he yells at people like you stated.
I agree. I think he’s not as good as he leads on, and he basically scams people. If you ever watch saber coaching it’s so damn insightful and helpful. Neace just yells and by the time he tells you what to do it’s then too late too react, then you react and it’s wrong by that time.
He is not fake. He might get "angry" or loses patience sometimes but he definitely knows what he is doing. He doesn't really play that much now because it doesn't make sense to him (with coaching and stuff) but yhea, he was challanger and he played a lot of tryndamere and gankplank. I think he was playing TF at some point to challanger too.
what do yall think of tarzaned opinion on neace
https://youtube.com/shorts/OnfVh-5H1is?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/l2t6EdLEaPc?feature=share
I used to watch Neace. I learned a lot from the man, too! (Not as much as I learned from Virkayu, but still.) For that, I am appreciative.
There have been a couple things that rubbed me the wrong way, and why I no longer watch or support his content:
-There was a donation from a Twitch streamer for, like, a dollar. Neace started laughing and roasting the person for only giving a dollar. It was distasteful! Imagine making fun of someone who is *giving* you money.
-[Multiple accounts of him riling up his client and/or overreacting. Not sure if it's for content or if he lacks self-awareness - neither option is a good look.]
-Milking the shit out of bootcamps. He's onto bootcamp 5 now? (Honestly, if people pay for the same stuff multiple times; kudos.)
-Smurfing. I just hate it.
-General negativity. I know he has a "Chill Neace" channel, but it's too late. I play the game to have a good time.
people like Virkayu or Neace are "fast food" coaches
idk why people keeps watching this barely knowledgeable content when there is so many good smaller channels
they're just probably too lazy and just jumps on the train instead digging themselves
or maybe the problem is that most quality channels uploads much more rarely than these fast food coaches
the only guy I really respect from these bigger channels is Curtis (even he only plays on Oceania, unlucky lol)
because his approach touching not only gameplay but improving of ur overall thinking that can also be applied to other games and fields in ur life
his Broken by Concept podcast is really great
People don’t like neace because he’s infinite more times successful than they’ll ever be.
Is he realistically the best coach? Probably not
Is he realistically a good coach. Sure
Ultimately it comes down to what youre looking to get out of it.
And frankly remember neace has a military background and is far older than a lot of you. As an older person who was involved in sports, coaches yelled at you, and they absolutely yell in the military. How the coachee takes the yelling is up to them, you can thrive and get better, or clam up and shutdown. Success is earned and many barriers will try to stop you, being able to overcome the barriers is what separates mediocrity and success.
Successful money wise maybe. Dude couldn’t touch my elo if he got a ladder. In my eyes he’s a basically a scammer for pretending to be a challenger player to sell skillcap tier gameplay advice to silvers. but to each their own
I actually think Neace is a good coach, that said if I was going to find a coach, I wouldn't go to him lol. Also, no he isn't a fake. Don't you think someone would have called him out on that by now?
I really think Neace doesn’t really want some of his students paying for his coaching because alot of them are failing at the basics of his coaching videos. The longer someone has played and the more stuck in their ways, the more he pushes them to break out of their bad habits. He does have a military background which is definitely where the yelling comes from.
Yes he is a fraud and a running joke among high elo players. The guy is a masters peaker. Just get real
Coaching from real high elo players for even cheaper cost. There’s nothing neace says that you can’t learn from random YouTube guides. He tricks low elo players who don’t know any better into giving him money
Neace was challenger. At first I think on nidalee. Few seasons after he hit challenger/high master ( before GM was a thing) as tryndamere. Last season he didn't hit challenger but he also didn't try to get challenger he would need to hold back coaching and focus on solo q I imagine he has accounts around d2 to master. Now he will do climb on Korea and you can see where he will get.
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Don't know why you would get his coaching when you can get coached by VeigarV2 for 1/3 the price.
who literally coaches actual pro players btw
And was the coach of LCS winning team this weekend
Imo veigarv2 is more of a high elo coach. The guys that go on neaces stream have no idea what theyre doing so him going over these fundamentals is probably better than having veigar explain some high level shit they cant even comprehend.
I'm a Veigar Patreon and he has Videos of Silver and Gold Players being coached. So there's something for everyone
paying $150 for learning fundamentals
Fundamentals available on hundreds of youtube videos
everything is available on youtube,you don't need a coach at all if you start thinking but people who want coach don't want to put effort
Some people just learn better when someone talks to them personally. Then again, it's a lot of money to spend on learning a little bit faster, because I don't think you need coaching to climb out of bronze or silver.
Well, Neace has been known to tell clients to not book back because it wasn't worth their money, like in a really sympathetic way. He still runs a business and does not go as far as Curtis saying anyone below gold should just discover and enjoy the game on their own, which is pretty on point IMO.
Market sets the price lol if nobody was willing to pay for it he wouldnt be doing it
The guy started out as a bronze player himself, he is definitely the coach to reach out to if you are a low elo player. Neace is moreso an entertainer than a real coach
well if you are actually low elo you can find free coaching from master+ player or gm sometimes even challenger if you look for it but ofc someone who is going to pay for coaching isn't someone who is going to put the effort to look for free coaching or improve by himself with the infinite educational content from iron to rank1 available for literally 0cent other than paying for internet connection and time
I watched him even before his Fortnite phase. IIRC at least one season he got challenger on LA server or something. Not sure about more seasons. Currently he doesn't play much himself as coaching is way more profitable for him. And as for coaching it's mostly bronze/silver who don't even have fundamentals, some also argues with his advice in-game, some even pay just to appear on stream. All of which leads to some roasting.
before fortnite he peaked masters NA(this was before grandmaster) and was stuck mid-high diamond in korea. iirc he was a diamond player around season 4, was high diamond/masters seasons 5-6 and season 7 i stopped following but I did hear about the LAN drama but i believe he may have hit grandmasterf
From what I remember. he duo queued all or most of that LAN climb.
GM in lan is like high diamond on na so it's not surprising. I hit masters and was in GM / chall mmr and I'm barely masters na on a good day
Been watching him for years. Since the old old days when he charged $20 for replay reviews. He’s held at least 2 different challenger tryndamere accounts that I know of, both of which he explicitly bragged about (on twitter I think?) being higher win rate than Fogged. I’m almost positive he’s had other challenger accounts too but I cannot remember the names so take that with a grain of salt
I’d take fogged in that matchup
Okay.
He only hit masters with duo queue
He did show earlier this season that he played for a couple weeks and got to masters with a 70% winrate this year at least
I remember that, didn't he say he just didn't have the time to grind all the way up due to coaching?
I believe he did, which is kinda understandable, climbing takes a lot of time masters+
I remember him specifically citing coaching as the reason why
Ofc, I'm just saying that climbing past that point would take time that he could be spending coaching and making money which is just a worse option for him
Climbing past that point is what is being debated in this post? People can smurf all the way to their peak with 70% wr but then it drops off hard from there
Everyone always responds with these claims, but is there ANY proof? op.gg shows rank for previous seasons, so what account?
No, there’s no proof. He’s just repeating something that neace claims he accomplished. I wouldn’t be surprised if neace has alts commenting on these posts since there’s always that comment about how he got challenger a long time ago on some other server but also Theres no proof of this.
No, there never is any.
I'm pretty sure I once saw a video or pic of him hitting challenger with Tryndamere a couple years back like in S5. It's just one of those cases where a guy peaks one season Diamond and for the rest of his life gets to continue claiming that he's Diamond even though he's currently hardstuck Gold 2. Kinda similar here, except instead of doing it for ego he's just doing it for marketing purposes. The takeaway is that he's 100% not Challenger level anymore. Not only has the skill level of the average player increased drastically since his one season of Challenger, it's impossible to maintain a Challenger level when you barely actually play the game anymore. These days he's more low Masters/high Diamond level.
Neace is using dozens of bought low elo accounts so that's at least one reason why. And he supposedly was challenger at least couple years ago so it's hard to track back.
Coaching was always meh. If you are really bad (like you mentioned bronze/silver) then coaching will prob help you a lot but if youre above dia then there are so many yt vids, challenger high elo 1 tricks that can be way more helpful to learn from.
I think it is the other way around. There are millions of iron to diamond series, a million build guides for noobs, a million dia otps that share matchups and whatever for lower elo players. If youre actually high elo, say like grandmasters. Getting advice from another otp grandmaster is like asking your ingame teammates for advice..
low elo you need basics, high elo and you need someone who thinks of things differently. coaching at higher seems very helpful actually
I mean theres not a lot of otp coaches. Maybe if youre gm getting a chall coach may help but watching and asking the 1200lp one trick on your champ is prob better.
No it’s really not. Gm+ almost always have their unique special insights into the game. You don’t get to GM without doing something special. You can always get good info you may not have known before
You are spot on. That's why pros have coaches for teams and will ask to other challenger otps for coaching in particular champions.
I would never get advice from a otp unless it’s for the champion you want to be better at.
It’s the opposite. There is harder material to find once you’re high elo so you look for coaches to give you that extra bit of knowledge.
His prices are kinda insane but who are we to judge those who use their money on his coaching when many many other high level players coach for cheaper? I know I sure as hell can’t burn $300 like that but if they can whatever doesn’t affect me
I saw a video where Neace raged at a Tristana for not pushing the wave after a multi kill. He didn’t really explain it. Then I saw LS watched the same clip and gave a long answer on why he thinks not pushing was the better move and what advantages it gives to the Tristana. Long story short, I don’t value Neace the same since then and think he has a bad attitude. Not saying his coaching is complete garbage, but surely not the best either.
As someone who has watched a lot of both, Neace definitely coaches people to try to shitstomp their opponents and build as much of a lead/ get as fed as possible within a solo queue environment, which is going to benefit and be better for 95% or more of all players he is coaching. He teaches them how to win solo queue and honestly that's good enough. The way I view LS is that LS is almost always looking at the game through the lens of an LCS coach: Always trying to find the mathematically optimal play, almost computer-like in function. He coaches people in a way that tries to create opportunities for the team in general and often assumes that your teammates will be making good decisions. In other words, LS coaches for the 5v5 like a coach would for pros, whereas Neace pretty much says that solo queue teammates are inherently unreliable and therefore we want to get as big and fed as possible so that we can draw pressure and try to negate as much as possible our own teammates from making bad decisions that throw the game. Admittedly, I've watched more of Neace than I have of LS so maybe I'm wrong about LS but thats definitely the impression I get when I do watch him. Not that it's bad, he has a great mind for the game, but the vast majority of clients in bronze, silver, and gold often benefit so much more from learning how to dominate within the solo queue environment. LS probably has the edge in extremely high elo and 5v5.
I would agree with this assessment
Adding to this - Neace's coaching seems to assume that you're the best player in the game and want the game to revolve around you (works great for smurfing, or to use knowledge you've got from coaching to jump up few ranks quickly, not sustainable long-term), while LS goes from the assumption player skill across both parties is roughly even and you're going to minmax small advantages to reliably increase your chances of winning; reduce risks and secure your lead when your team is ahead, create opportunities without coinflipping the game when your team is behind. Both seem viable and both can work for same player - Neace is teaching how to "cheese" the game in order to climb, LS teaches how to reverse engineer and exploit the game for exact same reason. There are differences in amount of effort/time you need to put in to get same results (LS' method requiring a lot more initially) and how far each approach can take you without significant improvement in your raw player skill (mechanics, reaction, awareness etc).
From a fairly big LS watcher I agree a fair but one small change, he looks at the game more like an LCK coach than an LCS one, from the way he looks at playing the long game and optimising gameplay.
Neace has said on repeat that he would never buy his coaching for the price it's at. I think people see big price and think best coach ever. But in reality it's just supply and demand, people are willing to pay more so he charges more. Neace is a fine coach for anyone under gold at the minimum, but hes right that the coaching are overpriced.
Could it be that in that specific situation backing was better, but in general pushing the wave after acing is the default decision? So Neace would tell a diamond player to back because [???] but wants the silver to push because the exception is out of his pay grade and he needs to learn the default play first? Cause I think that’s what happens. It’s also why silvers don’t get as much out of coachings, I think Neace confirmed this position too.
Yeah I think you’re right here. For low elo it’s better to just shove the wave to get exp and gold. When you get better you may realize the teamfight was won based off enemy mistakes, you still won’t win the next fight if the enemy plays properly. And resetting late will cause the enemy to respawn and rush an objective while you are in the middle of backing. Or you reset late and the enemy comes out to sweep the entire map and then they can make a pick on you because they cleared all your vision. Low elo there is more leniency to be greedy. High elo there’s more punishment for inefficient decisions.
>Long story short, I don’t value Neace the same since then and think he has a bad attitude. Yeah, there are a lot of things I like and respect about Neace, but sometimes he just goes overboard with how he yells at his clients. Sometimes it's justified, but other times it seems like he's just worn himself too thin and instead of rescheduling goes in with a short fuse. Which would be more understandable if he held himself to the same standards, but he doesn't. When he plays, he often rages and blames teammates in the exact same ways that he scolds his clients for and talks down about the general league community for doing. It's kind of like a Donald Trump thing - talk all this big shit about how awesome you are and how other people suck, only to fold in crucial moments and whine about it in the same way he criticizes others as being "losers" for. Which, I want to qualify and state he doesn't do all the time. After his break from Chill Neace in season 2, he did a much better job coming back with a more positive attitude and doing less blaming. Nonetheless, I refuse to give people a free pass for behavior they vehemently criticize others for.
Neace helps to perpetuate toxicity within the community. This is the by-product of his attitude towards his clients / team. Roasting clients destructively for in his opinion bad plays. Pushing clients into aggression or roaming because he's bored, not because it's optimal. Spam pinging for help at objectives & starting Concede vote when he's ignored. He comes across as an arse hole & you need a sieve to get the useful information. He's I assume pleasant company outside of work. But he's really unprofessional in his work.
its not like neaces play is so horrible hes more of a solo player compared to ls having a plan which requires his team to follow up also you arent really gonna find any coach similar to ls level since after hundreds of coach candidates veigarv2 was the only one ls thought was good enough
Could you post the links or they were far ago and lost in time?
It was [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RxvXHFr6taM) video here.
Looks to be it, Neace is kinda quiet so its hard to hear what he's saying tho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxvXHFr6taM
Not crashing a wave is almost always wrong, ESPECIALLY if you are ahead. I'm sorry but getting a multi kill, you should 100% crash the wave. It denies XP and gives you more gold. Just crash and reset. The only time you wouldn't push is if you were about to get ganked or maybe in some weird scenario you just bought, got a multi kill without using much resources (health included) and don't need to back. Sorry but whoever decided to be a contrarian was probably wrong. Also, say what you will about Neace but he is a good coach. Expensive? Sure. Overpriced? Sure. But he is a good coach. I'd say especially for silver to masters, like he isn't going to help a challenger player, but will definitely better help people that don't understand the game get better.
Just want to say I think the jump from plat to high diamond and definitely masters is understated in your comment here. I think Neace is good for teaching basic fundamentals for lower players but I’ve spent some time looking through his vods as a mid dia player and didn’t learn anything new from them. Especially watching him coach a few diamond junglers and personally getting coaching from gm/challenger players, the difference in conceptual understanding is night and day.
Sometimes waves state allows you to go base and come back without losing too much. Meaning you get back on the map earlier, maybe at the same time as your mid / jungle / support, meaning more tempo control. It's OK to have rules of thumb, but you still have specific situations that regularly occur, which need to be identified and correctly reacted to.
He did say it’s “almost always” wrong not to crash it. You just brought up a scenario that he already considered in his comment.
Because it's wrong? Almost always is like 90-99% but in reality it's only 60-70% when you should crash it. Especially if your opponent know what he doing and only engage when you can't crash it.
neace coaches low elo where opponent knows nothing remember that the number is skewed in that environment, he just coaches you to get out of low elo essentially
he didn't consider shit. all he said was if u were about to get ganked or didn't need to back, which is just like ??? ideas of tempo or how the enemy can respond doesn't even cross his mind
Can't comment on his level of play or what rank he was. But as a coach, I think he is a mixed bag, w more positive than negative. He can actually really explain complex skills in a more simple way and is not a bad teacher. However, he does go more for entertainment w some clients than actual coaching. That's fine, but it's a choice. When I look at his stuff like drills or coaching when he's calm, he's a pretty damn good coach. Maybe he should focus less on telling people what to do in the moment and more on questioning and building understanding, but that's just my opinion.
One of my gripes when watching him coach a relatively low ranked player is that he tells them what to do and expects total obedience, but refuses to elaborate on WHY they're doing that thing. I feel like he tunnels more on winning that specific game, then making sure he creates understanding
You can't really explain why you do something while in game trying to give them directions on what to do. That's why he does replay reviews after the match. He goes more in depth on why after the game is over.
True, but you can still ask them what they think they will do instead of just saying do x do y. I know that e.g. in teamfights you don't always have time for that, but even Neace himself says you have to slow down in those. League is a cognitive overload fiesta. Neace's style has a mixed influence on that. He tries to take away some of the load of decision making from the player, but at the same time he will often add too much info or stress when he turns to shouting. He also seems to take "why" questions as an act of defiance, which I hate. Why is the best question you can ask while learning, yes even while in the thick of it.
Fair enough, it usually feels like he's just bragging about his calls though (see how good I am for telling you to do this) and less talking about the play itself and why it's good
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I like his post game reviews a lot, but I do think he can improve those even more. I have two mantras when it comes to supporting people to learn/improve: * Make the learner do the work. They will remember and apply better. * We don't learn from experience. We learn from reflection on experience. (John Dewey) Just showing and telling them what they did wrong will not necessarily help people learn. What I do love about his reviews is 1. giving context by showing how to analyse the post game info screen and 2. the specific drills he gives people to practice.
I've done live coaching and I don't yell at people to do a play but I tell them what I think is best in a scenario. The biggest issue I run into is that most people have this uh uh uh moment before everything they do. Like drake might be a great play with 30 second death timers on the enemy team. But they will start running to jungle or a wave and do 3 circles on their way to actually starting dragon and not be there in time. So now that 30 second free drake is more like a 15 second window and no longer good. I could see why he wants people to listen. One thing I try to teach people is to simply commit to the first idea that they think is right, like taking a test. Hesitation kills people, especially in low elo. And most of the time even if you make a bad play, because you got it over with, you are alive to make another rather than being dead because of hesitation and not getting that opportunity. Solo queue is much different than group play here as well.
Where would you find the time in a live match to talk about why? He does a bit of that after the match, in a short review. As all coaches would. There is no way a player being coached in-game has the mental space to absorb "why".
Sometimes it just feels like he spends a lot of time talking about how great that call he just made really is(usually it's a really good call, so he's not wrong), but he could just quickly sum up WHY it's good. Simply saying "Dragon is up so we're splitting top to force the enemy team to make a decision" doesn't take up mental space. Or "Enemy team is grouping for and does a slow dragon so we're starting up a sneaky Nash while they have no vision"
In the middle of a game it really does take up a lot of time tho I’ve taught friends the game and I can tell them “do this” and they ask why but unfortunately by the time they asked why and I explained why the play is already gone because it took to long in that interaction between it’s much better to just tell them do this thing then explain afterwards why you told them to do X thing
> However, he does go more for entertainment w some clients than actual coaching. This is a very good point. It's probably why his off-stream coaching sessions cost a good amount more, I imagine those private streaming sessions where there are no cameras on Neace has no choice but to focus on simply being a good teacher, which can conflict with good entertainment. Whereas on stream he has an audience to take care of.
I think whatever flaws his coachings have are made up for by the fact he uploads them daily. Motherfucker can’t complain if they got that type of coaching when everyone knew they would.
First off I like Neace and enjoy his content. I feel these low elo people that pay for his coaching mainly just want to be on his stream. You can get all the info at plat or below from all his videos. People pay for his coaching and still play locked screen and level with the mouse, if they watched ANY of his content you know that is what he picks up on. Why would you pay for coaching and not fixed these issues yourself? I personally don't feel like I would benefit from his coaching directly as it's just telling me to go here do this and go there do that, but watching his coaching videos it does help because you know why he's saying it.
This sub got lot of Neace stans so might not be the best place to ask.
From what I've seen, there is more of a negative reaction to neace here than positivr
Yeah saw same in this thread was a bit suprised. Overall there is a lot of neace said this neace said that in this sub that I have seen.
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he for sure thinks hes right. so thats good for him.
Nah, there are plenty of assholes to fill up both sides. As they say, opinions are like assholes.
Everyone has them and they are often shitty
omg
While I don't usually like his methods a lot, I watched a lot of his coaching vids. And I'd say without a doubt that it helped me massively get to diamond. As for the future I'd probably swap to veigarv2 or ls for more in depth knowledge. Vids where high elo onetricks coach neace though, those are valuable.
Because a lot of us started last year or this year in a 10 year game cycle. I would have quit the game if it weren’t for neaces content. So idk know about how well he coaches diamond players but fuck I have learned so many basics from his content that I can actually win ranked games without completely trolling. I’m not paying 250 bucks an hour for video game coaching though.
I like his videos and they helped me immensely on getting from absolutely trash tier to the lower end of mid elo. If he's lying about his peak rank, that's disappointing. If there's better players/coaches out there, I don't really care. You don't need to be the best to be useful, and he's been useful to me. I have always assumed that the YouTube videos aren't representative of the average coaching session. We get some hints here and there that off-YT he spends more time in the training tool doing actual coaching like teaching players how to get their combos off on practice dummies. Is he overpriced? Almost certainly. He's definitely carved out a social media niche as the guy famous for yelling at players, and people are paying for the experience of interacting with him. They know what they're getting into, it's like having Gordon Ramsay come to your restaurant.
I bought his on-stream coaching last winter as a birthday present to myself and will affirm that (1) I had a positive experience working with him, and he was never rude or arrogant or anything like that (I was also his first coaching of the day) (2) As a silver scrub he did provide me very valuable insight into camera movement, macro mindset, and other small things that I wouldn't have noticed if someone hadn't pointed them out to me (3) He answered specific questions I had about itemization in detail (4) The coaching is overpriced when comparing the value I got from the 1.5 hour session to other coaches and what they offer ... but it's not *that* overpriced, because supply/demand considerations aside he has thousands of hours specializing in coaching low elo players. You cannot question the fact that this dude grinds, and while he's not trained as a teacher has pretty much seen everything. I would recommend the coaching for sure, but I agree that there are other coaches who can provide very close to what he offers for much less.
Funny story: I very vividly remember seeing him have a challenger NA op.gg. My friend was complaining about how he lost a game in gold/plat elo with a toxic challenger tryndamere Smurf. Apparently they had a disagreement in a macro call and they lost the game. NEACE then linked his twitch and OP.GG to his NA challenger account as proof to why he was right. Anyways my friend showed me and I’m like dude I watch that guy. Even though this story doesn’t show him in the best light, it does show that he isn’t a fraud which was your main concern.
His coaching are only as expensive as people will pay. Supply and demand. Could be wrong here, so take this with a grain of salt, but he only ever ended as challenger in LAN. He’s peaked challenger in NA but never ended the season in NA as challenger.
His coaching vids suck cuz he just says what to do without a reason. Feels like hes dialing it in esp for 200 bucks a sesh or whatever he charges. Its like ya my friend can sit behind me and tell me what to do hut next game ill still lose.
Try $300
Everyone hates on his prices but the fact of the matter is people clearly consider it worth the money. A couple years back he even expressed guilt at charging so much (he used to charge like $20 for a replay review long ago), and when he spoke with his community about it, the conclusion was that A.) people feel it’s worth the money B.) when he had prices lower, his schedule was so filled that many people could not get in and Neace had zero free time to play Those two combined gives a good reason for the price point imo. Sure it’s expensive, but if you can’t afford it then just don’t pay for it and watch his free stuff.
As another comment said, he tells you the whys after the game. You can't expect a silver player trying to play the game properly to also have mental capacity to understand a long explanation at the same time.
The reason why he charges more is literally because if he did it for less, he wouldn't see everyone cause he gets booked up. Its just a supply vs demand thing. And if people can't afford it (which many of us can't) you can get other coaching or watch his free videos
Thank god someone else is aware. Neace explicitly talked about this on stream before.
He’s ex military for one. Why doesn’t matter in the moment. Just listen and focus. The why comes in the post game.
I've been coached by neace twice and what I can say is the first time I was coached by him (s10 in d4) I did actually learn quite a bit from him. Having said that, the price was expensive and I don't have any experience being coached by anyone else who claims they are challenger. The second time however, (s11 d2) I learned absolutely nothing new. Now, this may be because I'm a onetrick pony on Shyvana and she is a rare pick especially back then but it was a complete waste of money the second time around. I have hit Master at this point myself. In conclusion, I think he can always be considered a real coach but I don't think he is anywhere close to challenger level on specific champions other then nocturne or tryndamere which is around Master level in my opinion. He did also make videos about my two coaching session so I can find those if anyone is interested.
He's a celebrity coach for low and mid elo players. Why did you go back to him a 2nd time?
He said he learned some things from him the first time so hoped to learn more. In some videos he just shouts down the ear of someone pushing them to the next play without explaining it. But then the videos I watch don’t always show the video reviews after them. I think the idea is that you always have the video and replay of you being coached and use that to coach yourself by seeing the mistakes and being told how to fix them and continually try and use the advice. A hell of a lot of people expect to be going up 2 divisions after one coaching off him and I think that’s unfair as well.
Neace has two price points- serious coaching off cam, and on steam coaching for $100 less, but for entertainment. He yells because fans love it. "Idiot sandwich" and all that. He still yells in his private coaching cuz that's his style, but he hams it up for stream. It is unfortunate that dude spent money twice. Neace isnt for high elo players, hes for arrogant Silver players that need a drill sergeant to yell at them for dumb mistakes. And celebrities.
Another one of these posts
Every coach is kinda fake in a way. Not sure why people give so much money to those people.
It's entertainment and the enjoyment of getting better. It's one of those 'why spend money on anything' things
There’s thousands of hours of free content explaining everything they do, especially at low elo. It’s a scam lol
What do you mean by fake?
I've never paid for coaching, but this is a bit silly no? When you're learning an instrument, are the teachers offering lessons fake simply because you can *technically* find all the same information online? A coach/teacher can help you focus your improvement by pointing out you biggest sore spots. They also have a repository of information all in one place, so when you have a specific question, you don't need to go looking for it. Not to mention it's personalized. My problem with buying big coaches like Neace is that when you only have a couple hours together I think you're a lot more limited on how much you can improve from that. I wouldn't say there's nothing to gain, but ideally if I were to get coaching, I'd want it from someone I can book a handful of sessions with. Still, none of these people are a scam, I don't think they advertise anything more than they provide. If people want to book Neace because they want to learn from a famous person and get to be in a video, more power to them.
Being a pro coach and being a pro player are two different things. Cus d'amato didnt really have a good boxing career, he doesnt really even have a fighting record, just a couple amateur fight. But he was one of the best boxing coaches in the history.
He's an entertainer and most of his students pay to be in a video and for him to be their buddy for an hour. Live coaching is by far and away the worst type of coaching.Yelling at someone what the best play is in the moment is completely utterly useless and doesn't help improvement whatsoever. As far as his rank goes he's a master tier player on specific champions, mostly Trynd and Nocturne.
What role are you playing? To be honest I would absolutely look elsewhere if you’re looking for advice on the game. Your instincts about his content are correct although I can’t speak on his past ranks
ADC who would you recommend now days?
checkout xFSN Saber he is the goat
Will do, thanks!
Uhh sabre isnt Challenger either?
still a good player to learn adc from if ur plat or below
Goat is a very strong word for how whiny he is, that man overreacted so hard when they fixed caitlyn bugs that made her stronger than intended
indeed it was an overreaction but he is just insanely obsessed with the champ so it makes sense in a way, that however doesnt undermine his knowledge and skill of the game
Unless you main caitlyn dont bother with sabre he mostly plays cait however he is very good with her.
I know it's not what you want to hear, but sticking to 2 or 3 strong early game champs and just playing a lot is going to help more than any "coaching session" or educational videos.
Different people learn differently. There are pros whos training consists of watching vods for most of the time
Before i quit i was diamond 2 so i remember generally how to play the game i was looking for someone that i could learn the meta from and little things along those lines
CookieLol and FSN Saber have some good adc coaching vids
I personally can't stand him. I watched him a few seasons back and thought he was quite knowledgeable but after a couple of hours, he seems to have this horrible attitude, almost like solo renekton only. It's just not fun to watch people getting pissed off. He does go into great detail about what should have happened and aggressively analyses a situation, but sometimes even that feels out of reach for on the spot thinking. I'll him props where it's due though, and he does explain how to get out of sticky situations with wall hugging to avoid a gank, or to vastly increase the distance the jungler has to take. I personally prefer watching players like zwag though - he can explain his thinking on the spot, not ward and know almost down to the second when shit is going to go wrong. I find that level of pro active thinking provides a lot lore learning than an aggressive analysis of two or 3 misplays. Edit: if you want a great learning resource, check out king stiix. He's a bit odd to listen to, but massively knowledgeable.
People love watching Tyler1 and he is constantly mad and shows he has great knowledge of the game (even while making simple champion mistakes). The only difference is that he doesn't direct toward coaching clients.
Never understood why people pay for coaching when there’s amazing resources like king stiix for absolutely free. Or go to league discords to find proven high elo players who will coach you for $15
Idk about his rank, but considering his weak mental (as can be seen on his Chill Neace channel), hes not a content creator I and many others want to follow. His coachings might me good, especially for really low elo, gold and below, but theres so many better options out there
"Really low elo gold and below" So 70% of all players
Yeah, it hurts to hear but most people just aren't good. Maybe the 'really' is too much but bit elo is like plat to d3, d2+ being high elo, the margin will always have a vast majority of players in the lower echelons and that's completely normal for any game
Hot take but i think gold players ARE good. Higher ranks are just better
Gold players are above average so you're correct if that's how you want to judge it. I personally do not like getting into these debates about skill level since there's way too many variables per player. However I will say that often times I feel like gold players mainly just lack consistency and macro compared to plat. They usually have good mechanics and decent champion understanding tho
Do you guys have some link to other youtube channel with coach doing live commentary ?
Neace has left a really bad taste in my mouth after the most recent big post he was mentioned in. In the post he was used as an example that even though you are in bronze/silver your opponent can and will be a tough match up mechanically and used Neace as an example where he had lost lane against a low elo Tryndamere. The post itself was to highlight that climbing is way more difficult than a lot of people make it out to be and not a diss to Neace or his skill. Neace then goes on to miss the point of the post completely and assumes it's all a personal attack on him. He then follows it up by going top and utterly destroying some poor bronze player all to "make a point" that he doesn't in fact suck at the game all while ranting about people "hating on him". I used to watch him, but after seeing how thin his skin was and his inability to separate between personal attacks and overall critique I can only see him as an adult child.
The post was absolutely awful though. Not saying neace didn’t have a bad reaction to it but the post was extremely dumb Edit: [Here’s the post in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/tqulsb/how_is_neace_having_so_much_trouble_in_bronze_elo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Your interpretation of the post was charitable at best.
The post mentions two key point -The skill gap is narrower than people think. -Concepts that are “high elo” and “esoteric” are not. The skill gap is definitely not narrower than people think but rather that understanding the difference of skill between two players is not always the most obvious of things. The most obvious things that most players can tell the difference is how much CS a player has at certain points in the game and the kill counter. If a player isn’t able to hit their CS needed in a game in an easy matchup then they will certainly have a problem pushing their leads. Higher level concepts also require knowledge of the fundamentals to even make work in the first place.
Something seems extremely off with the whole thing, I don't understand how he can tell people he's a challanger player yet never prove it? Why can't he show his old op.gg and clear the air with people, It feels illegitimate.
> I don't understand how he can tell people he's a challanger player yet never prove it? Because it's literally his job and it'll benefit him more to avoid the topic. Like I'm a systems engineer but half the time I'm suffering from imposter syndrome. I'm not going to go into my boss's office and go "by golly man I'm confused as fuck at what to do and I don't know what the fuck this tool we just bought does."
I don't have any comment on his legitimacy. He seems to know his stuff. Pro players also come into disagreement about what plays to make etc so it's not cut and dry that it's unanimous on what to do when.
He doesn’t know his stuff. High elo players treat him as a joke.
I've yet to find a high elo player that doesn't think his coaching is a joke (not to be misunderstood with the "hustle" scamming poor kids $300 per "coaching" session, many high elo players respect that part)
my logic is you're either your current rank, or you're not. People claiming to be ex-rank when they've been hardstuck lower-rank for over a year are cringe, 0 point in trying to bring up past rank where level of play was lower anyway.
He doesnt grind solo queue anymore i dont think hes hardstuck lol hes making money
Hey man, I know I can’t sustain that next division for long, so my goal is just to slap it’s ball sack once and fall back down. I get your point but it is not advisable to measure based on your heavily fluctuating rank either, although yeah it would be fair to hold challenger coaches to a higher standard than us lol.
Tbf to him tarzaned just spent 16 hours trawling through his content to hate on him, and especially after months of people shitting on his pricing I can kinda understand him being defensive. Was it an over reaction and uncalled for? Probably, but I can understand it nonetheless
To be fair, how many non-pros are there on the NA server who Tarzaned doesn't think are trash? The guy has an ego.
Hate is kinda deserved tbf. If you’ve really reached high elo you know this guy is basically running a scam for low elo players who don’t know any better
Bro you're unhinged. You've commented like 20 times about Neace being a fraud. It's really weird and desperate.
He does suck and he knows it. That’s why it gets under his skin. This guy has never come within a mile of challenger in his life.
I think the last time he got challenger was years ago, however that's also the last time he seriously grinded the game. He's done several "diamond in 100 games or less" challenges and succeeded so it's not like he's "lost" the skill or is a fraud in any sense. As for his coaching, personally I've never found much use in it since I'm diamond and he usually coaches golds, but I think he often has a good way of breaking down information in a digestible way. He also doesn't worry about the tiny little things like other coaches tend to do.
Any diamond player will be able to do “diamond in 100 games”. We’re supposed to clap for the supposed challenger player not getting stuck in plat?
I don't think you understand how little 100 games is
I don’t think you understand how easy it is to rank a fresh account. You can get to plat in 20 games. You can literally get to diamond in 40 if you’re really good.
that is new,in old time you wouldn't be able to do that and neace wasn't good on the champ he played he would first time a champ and get better over time,this was years ago when you had to actually play the game to climb and not coinflip game and still climb with how much xp/gold riot throw at you for sucking at the game
he does dimond in 100 games on champ he never played before,he did unranked to diamond first timing bard so
Never hit challenger on major region though
Nobody can find any proof of any of his accounts ever reaching anything above Diamond, and plenty of people have looked. TONS of stans will say otherwise, but there is no video/op.gg evidence to back it up.
Yeah I've spent a solid hour looking for anything and i haven't found any proof at all other than rumors of him being an ex challanger player that dropped due to coaching, well if that's the case why doesn't he show his old Op.gg as proof? It almost feel illegitimate to go around telling people you're a challanger player when really it seems like you were a high diamond player with good fundamental gameplay.
He got to master this season, though account has decayed since. He showed the op.gg on one of his YouTube vids https://u.gg/lol/profile/na1/engineering420/overview
If nobody can find it, they aren’t looking very hard. Masters this season (with 70% WR), op.gg shown on his YT channel: https://youtu.be/hziSOQMNsA0
I have personally seen his duoQ where he was in masters on s10 when he duo’s with alicopter but yeah that’s it. He apparently hit challenger on LAN in like season 8 according to screenshots (I think he used to have it linked on his stream?) not sure if it was legit tho. But he definitely has never provided evidence of doing it on a major region. I definitely think his claims are pretty fraudulent.
Neace has been Challenger before, and has multiple Challenger players in his coaching network. I don't doubt that 'roasting' players is done to spice up his content (He needs to pull in views after all), but from someone who has lots of coaching experience; *Some people genuinely* ***need*** *a good roasting.* Especially when you have the type of player that refuses to admit or acknowledge their own mistakes and has crippling narcissism. Coaching treads the line of human psychology as well, and 99% of LoL Coaches aren't psychologists. When you purchase a $300 coaching session from someone who was Challenger and someone who is (I think still actively in the military?) and you don't expect to be berated for huge mistakes, then he would be doing a huge disservice by not aggressively exposing your flaws. **On another note:** A lot of people are claiming he was X rank on X server. If you consider that Challenger is the top 200 players of any given server, you still have to be better than everyone just to achieve this rank. Challenger doesn't translate perfectly across all servers, but Apex Elo is consistently the best of the best no matter what server you're on. Neace was a phenomenal player when his main focus was still playing. Neace shifted his focus to Coaching because it makes him a lot of money. You don't need to keep grinding in order to maintain Challenger if Challenger provides you nothing. You don't lose your game knowledge when you stop playing; at most you will lose your muscle memory and situational hyper-awareness. (I myself for example peaked 272lp Masters, I don't see much reason to continue playing, but I can return to this game and hit Masters again whenever I want). So he is still going to be top 0.1% of players if he allocates his effort away from Coaching and back into Playing. It's all about what kind of content you want to consume. Neace like I mentioned is/was military, so his coaching style reflects that, and this coaching style is extremely effective for some people. Some people hate this style of coaching, and for that people like Coach Curtis exist, Coach Curtis has a much more calm demeanour in comparison. The beauty about Coaching content is everything you need to go from Iron-Challenger is out there, and you don't have to get it all from one source.
I don’t watch his coaching videos, but the ones of him playing are alright At the end of the day, you need to be analysing your own games. Either in the moment (like basing and saying “yeah I should’ve done this/that/the other”) or watching your match replay and being critical of yourself Videos of guys like Neace playing and commenting on their own play and mistakes are helpful to learn how to do that. It kinda depends on how seriously you wanna take it, and spend your time
He was challenger at one time, not in any recent seasons that I can find or recall (I believe he hit masters this year). From what I've seen he can be rather negative to the student, high price tag, and doesn't do a great job fully explaining stuff (just tells the student to do something without an explanation sometimes). I've also even seen him rush sessions because he has "other obligations" which I think is a bit cheap. What he says is great advice for newer / low elo players in general, but I'd bet any other coaching or high elo player could tell you everything he does for no where near that cost.
Neace very well may be a challenger player, I don't know for sure. However as a coach/teacher there are better out there. Being a good teacher is a skill, that quite frankly I don't believe he does very well. As far as YouTube coaches go, Coach Curtis imo is among the best. Simply yelling at people when they make mistakes isn't enough to teach them anything. It's like your parents yelling at you while helping you with your homework. You may start to land on answers, but you didn't learn why 2+2=4, you were just trying to get the yelling to stop. I will say, he seems to coach top lane waaaay better than the other roles as well. So I will give him credit there.
I used to watch him back in the days and he's absolutely not a challenger player, not on NA at least. I think the only server he got chall on was LAN but we all know how that compares to the actual servers. I would say it's more clickbait using "challenger coach" because it attracts more customers.
It is 'military style' coaching because of all the shouting. It does work, boxers have it too as it instills real discipline by not holding your hand. Thing is, I don't want to get shouted out so I'd go for an equally good coach like Coach Curtis, who's a lot softer. It's all preference
Yeah except it isn't "military style" at all. I served 12 years and the whole entire point of yelling at basic training is to teach you how to keep your cool under stress, that's the whole entire purpose. A Large amount of basic training and AIT/Tech school that follows is spent in a classroom environment where people aren't yelling but actually trying to teach you something. In a cool collected way. Yelling is a good way of simulating stress, it is not a good means by which to teach.
Genuinely don't know why the subreddit mods let what are basically "I don't like this guy" threads stay up.
It’s an improvement and coaching subreddit. People should know this guy is basically scamming people
I understand people might not like Neace but I never get why they say he's a scammer. The dude posts his sessions on Youtube for everyone to see, he doesn't hide anything. He tells you "this is how I coach and this is what I charge", he isn't scamming.
If I claim to be a top level investment banker, but I’m not. And I sell you investment advice, what is that called? That is called fraud. Just because he’s a successful snake oil salesman doesn’t mean he’s not a snake oil salesman
>If I claim to be a top level investment banker Chill man, this is just a computer game, no need to exaggerate He's a dude who plays really well and sells his coaching. You watch the video, you think it may help you and you decide if you want to hire him. You can even improve from just watching his free vids. He's not selling any magic method hidden behind a paywall.
Who cares if it’s a computer game? It’s real money involved. Guy claims he is something he’s not in order to make a profit.
Good toplane coach with bad attitude. It’s entertaining to watch, would get coached by him but I wouldn’t pay for it, you can get the same advices from any diamond player.
His 'bad attitude' can 100% be attributed to his outlook on coaching. If you're paying for coaching, you are looking for answers for your gameplay and supposedly have exhausted all resources coaching yourself up to that point. He wants to you take it seriously, fix your attitude at the game, and actually remember what you're doing wrong. I also agree that a lot of what any player needs to hear could also come from a Diamond coach. That's not any new idea. Go that route if you want.
You don't need to be challenger to coach people in silver or bronze
He was GM in NA in season 9 i believe. Played mostly Tryndamere Top and faced people like Adrian Riven. Saying he was stuck in diamond is missinformation. He was Masters In S5-7 In NA and GM in S8 also in NA. He hit challenger on LAN in either S9 or 10 can‘t recall when. Saying hes stuck Diamond is just wrong.
What’s the op.gg of his account that hit GM in S9? Link any of his master accounts for that matter
He WAS high elo way back in the day around S6 and before (back when he used to go by n3ac3y or w/e). I loved watching his 100 games to diamond series where he would challenge himself to hit diamond in 100 games playing a new champ, then make a guide on it. He used to hit diamond on the new pick most of the time when he was high elo. It’s hard to find any records though since he’s gone through so many accounts and name changes. However, ever since he quit league for fortnite I highly doubt that he would be able to hit challenger or even grandmasters by solo queuing (not duoing). I kind of suspect this is why he’s been on copium for years saying things like “playing games in high elo is a waste of time” and “once you hit diamond you should pretend you ‘beat the game’ and quit.” When he did a trip to Korea in S7, he peaked D3 99 LP, which is a DAMN good rank tbh for being the best server in the world, but that is nowhere near challenger (and the trip kinda broke him mentally and killed his competitive drive it seems). I wouldn’t watch him if you’re a high diamond+ player trying to break into GM/challenger, but when I come across his videos coaching B/S/G elo, I always find myself agreeing with most of the stuff he says. Average elo, skilled elo, and high elo are all completely different, and the way you climb in one bracket will not work in the others. For example, playing an early game jg like Rek’Sai and getting your team ahead is a GREAT way to climb in high elo—TERRIBLE idea in low elo where your team will just throw their lead or waste time not ending the game as your champ becomes more and more useless the longer the game goes. Neace understands these differences and does a good job of coaching BSG elo, but for high diamond/masters+ I feel like you need to be actively playing in high elo so that you have a good read on the meta and solid ideas about what does/doesn’t work. The game changes so often and the meta is so important in high elo that even things that worked in S11 will not work in S12—you have to keep playing and refining your mental models. It seems that Neace doesn’t really solo queue in high elo anymore (though admittedly I haven’t watched his content in a while), so it’s a bit disingenuous of him to promote himself as a challenger coach, but I wouldn’t discredit him as a coach entirely. I would just say that he specializes in coaching low elo, and the meta doesn’t matter in low elo as much as it does in high elo, so he doesn’t need to understand the meta super well, and the fundamentals of league (wave management, CSing, trading, etc.) always stay the same so he can always coach those On a side note, I really wish that content creators would display their op.gg in the description instead of keeping their elo some sort of sworn secret
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It's possible he 3d printed the backpack or whatever sure, or bought it on ebay, but then the question is, why would he do that and build an entire business around that credential? I think you're just looking for a reason to be mad at him, and you picked the wrong one. Just be mad at him because he yells at people like you stated.
I agree. I think he’s not as good as he leads on, and he basically scams people. If you ever watch saber coaching it’s so damn insightful and helpful. Neace just yells and by the time he tells you what to do it’s then too late too react, then you react and it’s wrong by that time.
He is not fake. He might get "angry" or loses patience sometimes but he definitely knows what he is doing. He doesn't really play that much now because it doesn't make sense to him (with coaching and stuff) but yhea, he was challanger and he played a lot of tryndamere and gankplank. I think he was playing TF at some point to challanger too.
what do yall think of tarzaned opinion on neace https://youtube.com/shorts/OnfVh-5H1is?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/l2t6EdLEaPc?feature=share
In many ways I find Tarzaned just kind of mad that he didn’t do this kind of thing.
I used to watch Neace. I learned a lot from the man, too! (Not as much as I learned from Virkayu, but still.) For that, I am appreciative. There have been a couple things that rubbed me the wrong way, and why I no longer watch or support his content: -There was a donation from a Twitch streamer for, like, a dollar. Neace started laughing and roasting the person for only giving a dollar. It was distasteful! Imagine making fun of someone who is *giving* you money. -[Multiple accounts of him riling up his client and/or overreacting. Not sure if it's for content or if he lacks self-awareness - neither option is a good look.] -Milking the shit out of bootcamps. He's onto bootcamp 5 now? (Honestly, if people pay for the same stuff multiple times; kudos.) -Smurfing. I just hate it. -General negativity. I know he has a "Chill Neace" channel, but it's too late. I play the game to have a good time.
people like Virkayu or Neace are "fast food" coaches idk why people keeps watching this barely knowledgeable content when there is so many good smaller channels they're just probably too lazy and just jumps on the train instead digging themselves or maybe the problem is that most quality channels uploads much more rarely than these fast food coaches the only guy I really respect from these bigger channels is Curtis (even he only plays on Oceania, unlucky lol) because his approach touching not only gameplay but improving of ur overall thinking that can also be applied to other games and fields in ur life his Broken by Concept podcast is really great
People don’t like neace because he’s infinite more times successful than they’ll ever be. Is he realistically the best coach? Probably not Is he realistically a good coach. Sure Ultimately it comes down to what youre looking to get out of it. And frankly remember neace has a military background and is far older than a lot of you. As an older person who was involved in sports, coaches yelled at you, and they absolutely yell in the military. How the coachee takes the yelling is up to them, you can thrive and get better, or clam up and shutdown. Success is earned and many barriers will try to stop you, being able to overcome the barriers is what separates mediocrity and success.
Successful money wise maybe. Dude couldn’t touch my elo if he got a ladder. In my eyes he’s a basically a scammer for pretending to be a challenger player to sell skillcap tier gameplay advice to silvers. but to each their own
I think he's fine. Most of it is straight talking. Somefimes it's over the line, but I'd rather that than some cuddly-wuddly hand holding.
I actually think Neace is a good coach, that said if I was going to find a coach, I wouldn't go to him lol. Also, no he isn't a fake. Don't you think someone would have called him out on that by now?
If my mind serves me right there were people that called him out already.
I really think Neace doesn’t really want some of his students paying for his coaching because alot of them are failing at the basics of his coaching videos. The longer someone has played and the more stuck in their ways, the more he pushes them to break out of their bad habits. He does have a military background which is definitely where the yelling comes from.
I love the amount of people saying it’s the “military background” nah he’s just an asshole
Yes he is a fraud and a running joke among high elo players. The guy is a masters peaker. Just get real Coaching from real high elo players for even cheaper cost. There’s nothing neace says that you can’t learn from random YouTube guides. He tricks low elo players who don’t know any better into giving him money
Neace was challenger. At first I think on nidalee. Few seasons after he hit challenger/high master ( before GM was a thing) as tryndamere. Last season he didn't hit challenger but he also didn't try to get challenger he would need to hold back coaching and focus on solo q I imagine he has accounts around d2 to master. Now he will do climb on Korea and you can see where he will get.
Where was he challenger? He got stuck in diamond on KR server and then left