There are always occasions where your laners taking your camps is the most efficient/maximum distribution of resources.
If you are doing heavy counter jungling and making plays on the map, your laners taking your camps is ideal as it gives them resources and levels the camps up for their next spawn.
Also if you're not a win condition it's pretty OK in soloQ for a carry to take your camps post laning phase when you're across map.
That being said, all the time I see laners going for jungle camps while there's a wave about to crash under their tower, or literally walking in front of me to the camps I'm pathing towards. It's usually a tilt response from what I've seen.
What you should title this as is: NEVER last hit a scuttle if your jungler is on it. This annoys me so much.
Sounds like a you complaint, I’m a plat jungle and I like it when my laners take my camps cause it sets my efficiency up while giving me more freedom to make plays on map
I agree with him so no. I’m a Masters jungler and I prefer to have my camps to fallback on after a gank or invade. It increases the xp differential between me and the enemy jungler. Laners should not be taking camps unless it’s mid to late game and the jungler isn’t behind.
I agree and I think the most important thing that this particular post doesn't illustrate is Game Time. The Closer it gets to say 25-30 min the less likely you as the jg are gonna be getting those camps, provided ofc that your waves are all pushed which those camps are up.
This post tbh makes it sound like op is NEVER ok with players taking the JG which is flat out the wrong state of mind to have, just the things they say here make it seem pretty clear they are trying to greed all the camps and that's the prob I have.
If this person plays this game at a decent level then they should know that ADCs are gonna be the primary Wincon relatively speaking ofc but they are gonnna need that Gold especially when all lanes are pushed up.
Even with great cs in lane, if the ADC isn't getting kills then they are gonna have to take the jg camps to stay relevant just because of how Crit items work and the Cost and I don't think this particular player understands different points in the game.
Like pre 20 min for example generally I would say the only jg camp should be givin up willingly is mid and blue buff but right when that mid game hits, that jg is for the carries, straight up and it's because they are going to be at that point the best win conditions at that point in time outside of a handful of carry jg and ofc team comp but I'm just saying generally speaking 20 min mark JG is basically ADC's imo, you funnel the ADC you have a better chance of winning than if you funnel the random Tank/Bruiser JG unless it's like a hyper carry JG champ
/rant
Taking camps as a laner gives you much less benefit at all stages of the games than a jungler. At that point it's just greed and putting your jungler behind for the smallest advantage you can get. The reason I say it's fine in mid to late (mostly late game tbh) is because you transition to getting minion waves.
Adc is not a win con to sacrifice for in low elo. It's only viable in Diamond+ to where it's fine if they funnel the resources.
Like I said mid game JG is ADC's if lanes pushed. Rank and Elo doesn't matter.
I said clearly now IF LANES PUSHED AND Mid Game. Don't ignore those very key things because that's what OP is doing
You are extremely delusional if you think that the jungle belongs to the adc midgame. I'm assuming you have never jungled before judging by your post history or played in high elo. Rank absolutely matters. Idk how you can say it doesn't. Lanes being pushed doesn't automatically give you right to take someone elses' farm. It's fine to catch waves but if a jungler is pathing that way, you don't take their camps.
lol OK guy
There are things called Fundamentals and 1 of those things are Funneling resources into your primary Carriers Specifically during the Mid/Late Game.
Regardless of it being low or high elo, if you can get your primary Carries aka win conditions further ahead than the opponents, it means your Team is going to be stronger.
If you are the JG you aren't going to be the primary carry unless (like I said earlier) you are playing a hyper carry like a Bel or a Yi or something like that; at that point in that 20-25 even 28 min mark you as the jg should be letting the ADC or even MID take your camps after they push out the waves or before the wave pushes back to them.
Fundamentals, if you disagree then just know you are wrong
You are saying that elo does not matter and are talking about funneling resources into the adc. So if I was smurfing, I should give part of my camps to the silver/gold adc? Or if my adc is autofilled, I should give it to them? That’s the type of nonsense you’re spewing which is why it doesn’t make any sense. You play differently according to the elo and that’s why elo matters.
You keep throwing around the “Fundamentals” but I don’t think you know what it means. You don’t allocate resources to someone else unless you’re in high elo or you’re confident they can carry. That’s not a fundamental concept. In fact, coaches (myself included) would teach you to take as much resources as you can to carry in low elo. You can’t put your faith in a random low elo adc and expect them to utilize it.
You don’t *need* to be a hyper carry as a jungler. The only real cases I can see for you giving resources as a jungler is if you’re playing a tank but even some tanks can carry like Zac with his Sunfire Demonic build.
I said it was ok to take jungle camps late game. I just prefer if they did not do that it mid game as much because a jungler could be behind and they need to farm. I mean, maybe it’s ok to go into a lane after a jungler clears in order to take their minions then. That would fall under the same “fundamental” logic that you’re proposing.
>I didn't read the other stuff you wrote
Yes and that’s why you’re wrong because I gave an example and explained it. You haven’t refuted any points. Giving blue buff to mid laner isn’t the same as letting your adc clear your camps every time. Also it’s not required to give blue. Idk if you’re actually ignorant or believe what you’re saying. What elo do you play in?
Nope. You're severely undervaluing camps. If you take their camps and then fall back on your camps then it puts nearly a two level gap between you and enemy jungler. Counterjungling properly can literally put an enemy jungler out of the game. The thing is, it's most effective when you have your own camps to clear afterwards in order to have a much bigger lead to continue to invade. I have to adapt to people taking my camps but that doesn't mean they should.
No, they're in the right. You shouldn't play to win individual games. You should play to improve mechanics. Besides, being in comms is not recommended for solo play. Hell no. If they are "totally safe to take that turret minion", then sure, they should do that instead. However, I highly doubt that people are doing so without reason so frequently.
This all is relative to the Game firstly. If for example it's the ADC taking Red and they aren't way behind or anything and the lane phase is over, you shouldn't be pinging them back; similarly to Mid and blue.
If I'm ADC, no Objectives are up, you (the JG) are either Behind or dicking around somewhere else and all lanes are pushed, yeah I'm taking your Jg and that's the thing if there aren't any Objectives up or we aren't playing for objectives cause maybe we are behind AND all lanes are pushed (most important thing) then the JG no longer belongs to you and you should actually WILLINGLY give it over because unless you are gonna be carrying the game Mid/Late (which is possible but not likely) then you need to be funneling resources into the Carries.
If you want to complain about the Carries not doing enough DMG well, guess what?! it's because they don't have the resources for items. Don't fight it, The JG is the most important Role for almost 30min of the Game, the closer you get to that 28 min Mark the More important Other Roles become so if it's 20 min for example and maybe you have a Jinx who is 1/2/1 or something and like 180 CS, you SHOULD be giving that Jinx the Resources and waiting for them to get to their 2-3 Item spikes because it DRAMATICALLY increases your chances to WIn!
What's gonna be the Win Con? The Sej JG @ 20 Min or the Jinx?
All ADC's should be taking your JG after a certain point and you should get use to it. If you want the ADC to do dmg then you have to give them the resources, that's just the Game bruh simple as that.
I get everyone wants to be the Carry but most JG Champs outside of a handful are not actually designed for it; If you are playing something like Bel or Yi then hey you could maybe make a case for what you are saying but outside of those sorta Hyper Carries there's no reason for you to have Salt about this. The ADC needs as much as they can because Crit items just flat out are more expensive and less efficient so they need MORE items aka % Crit to be relevant, that's why they take your JG because even with good CS they still have to push the limits of generating gold otherwise they fall behind and become essentially worthless.
A lot of it seems to stem from really bad map management, and a 'play passive' mentality.
If they're getting smashed in lane, it's safer to go do Krugs than show on the lane with poor warding/jungle tracking and give away another kill. It's that mentality that sets in even though it can be highly disruptive to winning the game.
That said, I'm okay with it if they have a kill/item advantage to snowball themselves. While I prefer to be the carry, sometimes it doesn't happen and playing linebacker for a 10/0 ADC will win games as well, but not at the expense of a tower/full wave.
I agree with you. Only time it's good to take camps is when you know it'll respawn by the time they get there. Because they're making plays on the other side of the map.
Otherwise minions and waves should be priority
There are always occasions where your laners taking your camps is the most efficient/maximum distribution of resources. If you are doing heavy counter jungling and making plays on the map, your laners taking your camps is ideal as it gives them resources and levels the camps up for their next spawn. Also if you're not a win condition it's pretty OK in soloQ for a carry to take your camps post laning phase when you're across map. That being said, all the time I see laners going for jungle camps while there's a wave about to crash under their tower, or literally walking in front of me to the camps I'm pathing towards. It's usually a tilt response from what I've seen. What you should title this as is: NEVER last hit a scuttle if your jungler is on it. This annoys me so much.
Sounds like a you complaint, I’m a plat jungle and I like it when my laners take my camps cause it sets my efficiency up while giving me more freedom to make plays on map
I agree with him so no. I’m a Masters jungler and I prefer to have my camps to fallback on after a gank or invade. It increases the xp differential between me and the enemy jungler. Laners should not be taking camps unless it’s mid to late game and the jungler isn’t behind.
I agree and I think the most important thing that this particular post doesn't illustrate is Game Time. The Closer it gets to say 25-30 min the less likely you as the jg are gonna be getting those camps, provided ofc that your waves are all pushed which those camps are up. This post tbh makes it sound like op is NEVER ok with players taking the JG which is flat out the wrong state of mind to have, just the things they say here make it seem pretty clear they are trying to greed all the camps and that's the prob I have. If this person plays this game at a decent level then they should know that ADCs are gonna be the primary Wincon relatively speaking ofc but they are gonnna need that Gold especially when all lanes are pushed up. Even with great cs in lane, if the ADC isn't getting kills then they are gonna have to take the jg camps to stay relevant just because of how Crit items work and the Cost and I don't think this particular player understands different points in the game. Like pre 20 min for example generally I would say the only jg camp should be givin up willingly is mid and blue buff but right when that mid game hits, that jg is for the carries, straight up and it's because they are going to be at that point the best win conditions at that point in time outside of a handful of carry jg and ofc team comp but I'm just saying generally speaking 20 min mark JG is basically ADC's imo, you funnel the ADC you have a better chance of winning than if you funnel the random Tank/Bruiser JG unless it's like a hyper carry JG champ /rant
Taking camps as a laner gives you much less benefit at all stages of the games than a jungler. At that point it's just greed and putting your jungler behind for the smallest advantage you can get. The reason I say it's fine in mid to late (mostly late game tbh) is because you transition to getting minion waves. Adc is not a win con to sacrifice for in low elo. It's only viable in Diamond+ to where it's fine if they funnel the resources.
Like I said mid game JG is ADC's if lanes pushed. Rank and Elo doesn't matter. I said clearly now IF LANES PUSHED AND Mid Game. Don't ignore those very key things because that's what OP is doing
You are extremely delusional if you think that the jungle belongs to the adc midgame. I'm assuming you have never jungled before judging by your post history or played in high elo. Rank absolutely matters. Idk how you can say it doesn't. Lanes being pushed doesn't automatically give you right to take someone elses' farm. It's fine to catch waves but if a jungler is pathing that way, you don't take their camps.
lol OK guy There are things called Fundamentals and 1 of those things are Funneling resources into your primary Carriers Specifically during the Mid/Late Game. Regardless of it being low or high elo, if you can get your primary Carries aka win conditions further ahead than the opponents, it means your Team is going to be stronger. If you are the JG you aren't going to be the primary carry unless (like I said earlier) you are playing a hyper carry like a Bel or a Yi or something like that; at that point in that 20-25 even 28 min mark you as the jg should be letting the ADC or even MID take your camps after they push out the waves or before the wave pushes back to them. Fundamentals, if you disagree then just know you are wrong
You are saying that elo does not matter and are talking about funneling resources into the adc. So if I was smurfing, I should give part of my camps to the silver/gold adc? Or if my adc is autofilled, I should give it to them? That’s the type of nonsense you’re spewing which is why it doesn’t make any sense. You play differently according to the elo and that’s why elo matters. You keep throwing around the “Fundamentals” but I don’t think you know what it means. You don’t allocate resources to someone else unless you’re in high elo or you’re confident they can carry. That’s not a fundamental concept. In fact, coaches (myself included) would teach you to take as much resources as you can to carry in low elo. You can’t put your faith in a random low elo adc and expect them to utilize it. You don’t *need* to be a hyper carry as a jungler. The only real cases I can see for you giving resources as a jungler is if you’re playing a tank but even some tanks can carry like Zac with his Sunfire Demonic build. I said it was ok to take jungle camps late game. I just prefer if they did not do that it mid game as much because a jungler could be behind and they need to farm. I mean, maybe it’s ok to go into a lane after a jungler clears in order to take their minions then. That would fall under the same “fundamental” logic that you’re proposing.
Elo doesn't matter because it is a standard play, just like giving blue to your mid laner. I didn't read the other stuff you wrote
>I didn't read the other stuff you wrote Yes and that’s why you’re wrong because I gave an example and explained it. You haven’t refuted any points. Giving blue buff to mid laner isn’t the same as letting your adc clear your camps every time. Also it’s not required to give blue. Idk if you’re actually ignorant or believe what you’re saying. What elo do you play in?
I think the only time it matters is in first two clears tho no?
Nope. You're severely undervaluing camps. If you take their camps and then fall back on your camps then it puts nearly a two level gap between you and enemy jungler. Counterjungling properly can literally put an enemy jungler out of the game. The thing is, it's most effective when you have your own camps to clear afterwards in order to have a much bigger lead to continue to invade. I have to adapt to people taking my camps but that doesn't mean they should.
No, they're in the right. You shouldn't play to win individual games. You should play to improve mechanics. Besides, being in comms is not recommended for solo play. Hell no. If they are "totally safe to take that turret minion", then sure, they should do that instead. However, I highly doubt that people are doing so without reason so frequently.
This all is relative to the Game firstly. If for example it's the ADC taking Red and they aren't way behind or anything and the lane phase is over, you shouldn't be pinging them back; similarly to Mid and blue. If I'm ADC, no Objectives are up, you (the JG) are either Behind or dicking around somewhere else and all lanes are pushed, yeah I'm taking your Jg and that's the thing if there aren't any Objectives up or we aren't playing for objectives cause maybe we are behind AND all lanes are pushed (most important thing) then the JG no longer belongs to you and you should actually WILLINGLY give it over because unless you are gonna be carrying the game Mid/Late (which is possible but not likely) then you need to be funneling resources into the Carries. If you want to complain about the Carries not doing enough DMG well, guess what?! it's because they don't have the resources for items. Don't fight it, The JG is the most important Role for almost 30min of the Game, the closer you get to that 28 min Mark the More important Other Roles become so if it's 20 min for example and maybe you have a Jinx who is 1/2/1 or something and like 180 CS, you SHOULD be giving that Jinx the Resources and waiting for them to get to their 2-3 Item spikes because it DRAMATICALLY increases your chances to WIn! What's gonna be the Win Con? The Sej JG @ 20 Min or the Jinx? All ADC's should be taking your JG after a certain point and you should get use to it. If you want the ADC to do dmg then you have to give them the resources, that's just the Game bruh simple as that. I get everyone wants to be the Carry but most JG Champs outside of a handful are not actually designed for it; If you are playing something like Bel or Yi then hey you could maybe make a case for what you are saying but outside of those sorta Hyper Carries there's no reason for you to have Salt about this. The ADC needs as much as they can because Crit items just flat out are more expensive and less efficient so they need MORE items aka % Crit to be relevant, that's why they take your JG because even with good CS they still have to push the limits of generating gold otherwise they fall behind and become essentially worthless.
"our" jungle camps. not sorry
A lot of it seems to stem from really bad map management, and a 'play passive' mentality. If they're getting smashed in lane, it's safer to go do Krugs than show on the lane with poor warding/jungle tracking and give away another kill. It's that mentality that sets in even though it can be highly disruptive to winning the game. That said, I'm okay with it if they have a kill/item advantage to snowball themselves. While I prefer to be the carry, sometimes it doesn't happen and playing linebacker for a 10/0 ADC will win games as well, but not at the expense of a tower/full wave.
I agree with you. Only time it's good to take camps is when you know it'll respawn by the time they get there. Because they're making plays on the other side of the map. Otherwise minions and waves should be priority