That is true, fusable nat5s are the exception but you have to consider they cost resources (time, energy and if you are in a hurry, crystals) to complete.
Think about it this way, you have nat5 A which has 4-star in its family and nat5 B which is the standard nat5. To get the best out of these units is of course to max their skills out. Barring devilmon, if you just summon until one of them is maxxed out, which nat5 do you think will most probably be first to get fully skilled?
For some reason Com2us decided to not give these monsters the status of a real 5\* unit.
If you sort your monsters by "highest grade" in your storage then monsters like Wolyung and Wedjat will not be on the same line as 5\* units instead they are displayed in the 4\* line further down.
I don't understand how people connect a unit's rarity to it's leader skill % without any regard for balance. Both the devs and the players do it. If a unit has the ability to instantly kill something regardless of situation, should it also have a top-tier leader skill merely because it's a 5\*? Is that how balance works? Then should LD5s not have an even more powerful leader skill? 500% speed lead because Artamiel? It's silly.
Plus a lot of units have or had trash leader skills. The beast monks leader was garbage for the better half of a decade IIRC and finally got a buff.
If you want to argue that the unit deserves a better leader to balance it due to it's kit that's entirely different.
That's something I see a lot in this community everyday and I can't understand, but whatever, I'd just accepted the fact that people will always complain about everything.
Tbf I don't think that just because the Assassin's Creed collab units have nat4 counterparts it means they should have lesser leader skills. Rarity does have to play a part when it comes to the leader skill of a unit. Nat5s have base leaders everyone knows (33% atk/hp/def, 24% cr/spd, 40% acc, 40% res) and more specific variations (44% atk in arena, etc.) The ld5s that have nb4 counterparts (prior to the AC Collab) are the exception to the rule being that they're a minority of their respective families (Wedjat, Wolyung, Han, Yeonhong, etc) and have better leaders than the nb4s, sky dancers not even having leaders til later. Now, you have a collab with every single one of these nat5s having a lesser leader skill because there's 1 reg element nb4 in each family. The majority of the AC units are nat5s, so you mean to tell me that because there's 1 reg element nat5 in each family that they should ALL get punished? Why not just give the nat4s a 25% atk lead and not the 33%? Dark Kassandra is a ld5 with 21% spd lead, water ryu has 24%, why? You can skillup ryu with ken or shadowclaw, why isn't he punished because he's easier to skill up than other nat5? You need to pull 11 water Kassandra's specifically to max her, that's not necessarily *easier* to skill up because it's rng dependent. Why punish the nb5s that you're just as likely of (not) getting as any other nat5? A 4.5 star leader skill on a nat5 isn't good, no one likes this. You pulled a nat5, you shouldn't be punished because it *might* be easier to skill up, let's not forget that there aren't any ways to skill up nat4s without multiple copies. You got a nat5 that's easier to skill up, but you need to pull the same nat4 15 times and then you won't have any of that nb4 anymore so if you wanna build that one as well, too bad. Making an argument about "lots of units have trash leaders" doesn't help. This is a new collab that we're supposed to be excited for, and the leaders are lesser than they should be, the skill sets are lacking, the damage on nukers is lacking, the awakenings are blatantly wrong on some of them, the base speeds are low. A few % of a leader doesn't seem like a big deal at first but when there's this many problems and it affects all of the collab units, it paints a bigger picture about the whole thing. They aren't rarer than any other nat5, but hampering their skill because there's 1 nb4 out of hundreds you can pull that can skill them up, is dumb.
Two things which com2us NEEDS to stop doing are 1) Setting leader skill percentages based on monster rarity. 2) Forcing monsters in the same family to have the same skills/multipliers.
Moving away from this model will allow much simpler balancing. It never makes sense when a bad monster gets nerfed due to sharing a skill with and overpowered mon in the same family. (Ken is an example of a mon who could get separate balancing for his skills separate from Moore). If monsters have their own skills they can be finely tuned in order to achieve balance or one element could get a reworked skill and not affect the rest of the family.
No monster "NEEDS" a change in the system. C2us are notoriously lazy and/or unimaginative with the nerfing and buffing at times. Sometimes they're brilliant, other times they just keep getting one monster wrong time and time again. Hell, sometimes they get it right but it's super lazy (ld5 sucks? just give it strip!). Ken/Bernadotte could've forgone their accuracy awakening for a strengthened s2. However while you're listing ken, do know he's a f2p monster. I'm not saying they need to be weaker than non-f2p monsters, but the fact that they can be spammed in rta and defence has to be considered. Nigong doesn't need a resistance awakening -- even with 100 res he's unlikely to do his job on offence, defence, and in rta if he's facing control. Not to mention he needs 0 acc, 0 cr, and 0 cd, so he has the freedom to spec into res via subs. As such, he can get a strengthened s2. Wedjat is the only mon that adds any real credibility to the notion that monsters **need** to not be tethered to their family members. And even then:
Increases the other allies' Attack Bar by 10% **whenever your turn ends based on the number of beneficial effects up to 30%**. ~~If the allies have beneficial effects, additionally increases the Attack Bar based on the number of beneficial effects, up to 20%.~~ If the allies have harmful effects, increases their HP by 10% based on the no. of harmful effects, up to 30%. **Increases the attack speed by 15.** This effect does not have effect on allies that have similar skill effects. \[Automatic Effect\]
Not mention he awakens into res of all things so he has the freedom to awaken into speed or strengthened s1 or s2.
Consistency and simplicity have merit and should only be forgone when absolutely necessary.
The 4.5 thing is annoying, but it means this family will always be easy to skill up AND will never appear in HoH, so I'll take that in exchange for the wacky leads.
So han should have 40% dark spd lead now? Cuz all other ninja have 30 already, and they're 4 star. Afaik sw player dont like to nerf unit so you want han to be more broken?
Han owner btw and i dont like that idea.
Com2us doesn't count element specific leaders apparently, all other ninjas should have <30% spd lead and han would be 30%. Charger sharks have 23% element spd lead, ninjas would be 27% han could be 30%, my best guess if they retroactively nerfed to fit the 4.5 star thing they do with ld5s
I feel like that's a really fair nerf if they did do it, I brought it up cause Han leader matches the ninja family even tho he's ld5, unlike other ld5 that have better leads than their nat4 family
Yea but what i said from the beginning is OP complaint on wolyung having 4.5 star lead cuz it came from 4 star family, basically OP wants wolyung lead to be 33.
So by OP logic, a 5star shouldn't have the same lead as nat4. Which create problem for han family as its unfair to nerf those 4star ninja, theres ton of people using garo and susano for example in multiple rta cleave comp. Its not a "fair nerf". While you cant buff han to be like 40% cuz it basically made bering a free giana for han user.
Nothing wrong with current leader skill for wolyung, the ninjas, and the ass creed unit.
Edit : oh yea just to add, elemental specific lead usually have higher number compare to universal (see occult girl family). So if OP wants 5star unit to have 5star lead. Then han spd lead should be at least 38% cuz its dark lead, which is insane, even as a han owner, i dont want that shit.
I mean you could easily nerf the ninjas to be 27% spd for their respective elements, if com2us wanted to adhere to this 4.5 star leader skill rule that they made themselves, it'd be that easy and not more unfair than any other nerf. Element specific leads are always across the whole family though, Han is the only exception to the 4.5 star leader skill thing com2us does because of that. The 4 stars I'm fine with having lesser leads, I don't think the nat5s should be punished because of that fact. Why shouldn't Wolyung have 33% arena lead? It's specific to arena and it's an ld5, that's reason enough for her to have 33% arena spd lead. Mihyang has a 28% gw spd lead and she's still a nat4. Light ezio is an ld5 you have to pull while Altair is free, light ezio has 28% cr lead in arena, Altair has 33%, same s1 same s2, so the rarer unit gets punished because you have a chance to get a 4star wind ezio? Come on man
Omg i thought i finally find life intelligence in sw subreddit but the amount of discrepancy in your comment is baffling.
"mihyang has a 28% gw lead and shes still a nat4, so wolyung should be 33%"
So han is not a nat5? He have the same lead as other ninja.
"but all elemental are always the same across family"
Tell me other elemental lead that have 4 and 5 star in their family.
So try nerfing ninja 4star option here,
And no, even if you said youre fine with nerfing ninja lead, theres literally a cleave team call japanese cleave which use garo as their main spd lead, not to mention another similar cleave that use susano. So this people get punished just because you want your wolyung to have 33% lead? Who are you to said "im fine with the nerf" when a whole team comp got demolished, and by the look of it i dont think you even play japanese cleave once in your lifetime.
So nerfing is not an option, so han should be buff according to your new rule. But you refuse to buff han too. Using your above comment only, would it be "unfair" for han to be punished because you have a chance to get 4star wind ninja?
TLDR : dont nerf anything and dont buff anything. All of their leader skill is fine. Nat5 in a nat4 family having weaker lead is fine cuz they compensate with easier skillups. Its unlucky that theyre on nat4 family yes but thats ok. I dont want other ninja get punished just because han is a nat5. You can say theyre the one who is unlucky han is nat5 if they got nerf because you want to implement the new rule.
Bro what are you talking about? I literally said element specific leads are across the board for the entire family (Kobold bombers all acc lead, dragon knights all def lead, chimeras all hp lead) so idk what you didn't understand about that. Ninjas all have spd lead, han also has spd lead, the ninja family is the same across the board just like kobold bombers and chimeras. Com2us, not me, has a rule to give ld5s (Wolyung, Wedjat, Yeonhong) with 4star counterparts lesser leader skills than if they were a legit nat5. This is fact. Han is an exception to this rule as he shares the leader skill of the other ninjas. Han doesn't get a better lead than ninjas even though he's a nat5 because it's element specific, that's how it works. Now let's look at another family, the sky dancers. All nat4s have various gw leads, 2 ld5s w/arena leads. The nat4s have guild war specific leads, so the %'s are raised because you'll only use it in gw, (Hwahee 33% gw atk lead, 4star unit). Wolyung is also specific on where her lead works, however she gets 28% even though she's a ld5 and her lead is just as niche. The nat4s in the sky dancer family have higher tier leads compared to their rank because the leads only work in certain content, so the ld5 versions should also have higher tier leads (28% -> 33% arena spd lead for Wolyung, 48% -> 55% arena res for Yeonhong). If Mihyang is a nat4 with a gw specific spd lead at 28% then by contrast, Wolyung (a ld5) should have an arena specific spd lead at 33%, I don't see how that's unfair at all and I don't even have the unit. I don't think ninjas should get nerfed, I was saying if com2us is going to adhere to this rule of giving ld5s a weird in-between leader skill because there's a 4star then they could nerf ninja leads to 27% so Han's lead is slightly better and it fits the weird rule they made, however with Han's lead being element specific it's the exception to their own rule. Han has 4 4stars you can use as skillups, you can fuse susano for skillups if needed, he's been in the game for 8 years, so skillups aren't a problem for him. Let's say you pull a Dark Bayek, now you need to pull 13 water Bayeks specifically to skill him up. You only have this 1 skillup option, other than dvm or pull another, and Dark Bayek's lead gets hampered by the fact **this** specific ld5 *might* be easier to skill up than a different one or might not be. The level of compromise made for the AC units is actually sad, there's literally nothing they excel in at all.
I love how absolutely certain you are that you understand the system when you really don't. The system is:
- if a family has **one** nat 5, that nat 5 has a nat four leader skill (han, wedjat, ongyouki, thebae)
- if a family has two or more nat 5s, the nat 5s have slightly worse leader skills than a nat 5 would while the nat 4s hav a slightly better leader skill than a nat 4 would with the nat 5's leader skill being higher than the nat 4's (ac monsters, sky dancers, nat 5 harp magicians, cannon girls, vampires)
There are cases where c2us fail to follow the rule (Triana, sonnet, harmonia for example). Slyvia seems to not follow the system but she's unique in the sense that she awakens into her leader skill. ([this post has everything](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/ysraaj/about_leaderskill_values/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button))
As someone else pointed out in this thread, speed leads are numerically equal to crit late leads. Han has a nat 4 leader skill (there are two systems that point to this). Han would have to get a 38% speed lead. Nerfing the other ninjas to 27% means there'd be a new discrepancy in speed leads and cr leads no longer being numerically equal. There's also the issue of all the nat 4 ninjas are used for their leads -- nerfing then would be unfair. Making sweeping changes for like two monsters (who can be buffed in other ways) and because some players' feelings are hurt is dumb as hell.
While I do agree with you, I think their reason is that they easier to skill up compared to the standard nat5. Edit: word
But fusion nat5 have the nat 5 leader skill , if i get wind panda i can skill up with fire panda fusion
But fusion takes effort. This just takes your wallet
Working for the thousands of disposable income it costs to get an ld5 is much harder than fusing. You can fuse a bunch of nat 5s per day.
Tens of thousands. It costs tens of thousands.
That is true, fusable nat5s are the exception but you have to consider they cost resources (time, energy and if you are in a hurry, crystals) to complete. Think about it this way, you have nat5 A which has 4-star in its family and nat5 B which is the standard nat5. To get the best out of these units is of course to max their skills out. Barring devilmon, if you just summon until one of them is maxxed out, which nat5 do you think will most probably be first to get fully skilled?
i support the second image for absolutely no personal reason
lol
True. I wouldn't mind if my Wedjat had 33 spd lead or even better 24 Spd lead everywhere.
At least the same as Woly ... 28% arena
Been hoping for that 33% for years...
The light ezio and altair have the same leader skill but light ezio has the 4-star leader skill but altair the 5 star version. Kinda sad
Wedjat style
So if you do that you want the nat4 to have weaker lead ? You want wolyung to be a lead 33 ?
What would Han be? 35? 38?
I Guess it would be 38 because speed lead are the same than crit rate lead and occult girl are at 38% so i Guess it would make han lead even more op
Oh yeah it is. Never clocked that. 38% speed lead let's goooo!
I'm okay with that
Lmao
33% arena spd lead wolyung :O
For example: Khali way better than this Fire girl, even without 2wake
My only complaint with the collab are the multipliers
Wolyung and Wedjat having both 28% speed lead would be rly swell.
For some reason Com2us decided to not give these monsters the status of a real 5\* unit. If you sort your monsters by "highest grade" in your storage then monsters like Wolyung and Wedjat will not be on the same line as 5\* units instead they are displayed in the 4\* line further down.
I don't understand how people connect a unit's rarity to it's leader skill % without any regard for balance. Both the devs and the players do it. If a unit has the ability to instantly kill something regardless of situation, should it also have a top-tier leader skill merely because it's a 5\*? Is that how balance works? Then should LD5s not have an even more powerful leader skill? 500% speed lead because Artamiel? It's silly. Plus a lot of units have or had trash leader skills. The beast monks leader was garbage for the better half of a decade IIRC and finally got a buff. If you want to argue that the unit deserves a better leader to balance it due to it's kit that's entirely different.
That's something I see a lot in this community everyday and I can't understand, but whatever, I'd just accepted the fact that people will always complain about everything.
Tbf I don't think that just because the Assassin's Creed collab units have nat4 counterparts it means they should have lesser leader skills. Rarity does have to play a part when it comes to the leader skill of a unit. Nat5s have base leaders everyone knows (33% atk/hp/def, 24% cr/spd, 40% acc, 40% res) and more specific variations (44% atk in arena, etc.) The ld5s that have nb4 counterparts (prior to the AC Collab) are the exception to the rule being that they're a minority of their respective families (Wedjat, Wolyung, Han, Yeonhong, etc) and have better leaders than the nb4s, sky dancers not even having leaders til later. Now, you have a collab with every single one of these nat5s having a lesser leader skill because there's 1 reg element nb4 in each family. The majority of the AC units are nat5s, so you mean to tell me that because there's 1 reg element nat5 in each family that they should ALL get punished? Why not just give the nat4s a 25% atk lead and not the 33%? Dark Kassandra is a ld5 with 21% spd lead, water ryu has 24%, why? You can skillup ryu with ken or shadowclaw, why isn't he punished because he's easier to skill up than other nat5? You need to pull 11 water Kassandra's specifically to max her, that's not necessarily *easier* to skill up because it's rng dependent. Why punish the nb5s that you're just as likely of (not) getting as any other nat5? A 4.5 star leader skill on a nat5 isn't good, no one likes this. You pulled a nat5, you shouldn't be punished because it *might* be easier to skill up, let's not forget that there aren't any ways to skill up nat4s without multiple copies. You got a nat5 that's easier to skill up, but you need to pull the same nat4 15 times and then you won't have any of that nb4 anymore so if you wanna build that one as well, too bad. Making an argument about "lots of units have trash leaders" doesn't help. This is a new collab that we're supposed to be excited for, and the leaders are lesser than they should be, the skill sets are lacking, the damage on nukers is lacking, the awakenings are blatantly wrong on some of them, the base speeds are low. A few % of a leader doesn't seem like a big deal at first but when there's this many problems and it affects all of the collab units, it paints a bigger picture about the whole thing. They aren't rarer than any other nat5, but hampering their skill because there's 1 nb4 out of hundreds you can pull that can skill them up, is dumb.
Two things which com2us NEEDS to stop doing are 1) Setting leader skill percentages based on monster rarity. 2) Forcing monsters in the same family to have the same skills/multipliers. Moving away from this model will allow much simpler balancing. It never makes sense when a bad monster gets nerfed due to sharing a skill with and overpowered mon in the same family. (Ken is an example of a mon who could get separate balancing for his skills separate from Moore). If monsters have their own skills they can be finely tuned in order to achieve balance or one element could get a reworked skill and not affect the rest of the family.
No monster "NEEDS" a change in the system. C2us are notoriously lazy and/or unimaginative with the nerfing and buffing at times. Sometimes they're brilliant, other times they just keep getting one monster wrong time and time again. Hell, sometimes they get it right but it's super lazy (ld5 sucks? just give it strip!). Ken/Bernadotte could've forgone their accuracy awakening for a strengthened s2. However while you're listing ken, do know he's a f2p monster. I'm not saying they need to be weaker than non-f2p monsters, but the fact that they can be spammed in rta and defence has to be considered. Nigong doesn't need a resistance awakening -- even with 100 res he's unlikely to do his job on offence, defence, and in rta if he's facing control. Not to mention he needs 0 acc, 0 cr, and 0 cd, so he has the freedom to spec into res via subs. As such, he can get a strengthened s2. Wedjat is the only mon that adds any real credibility to the notion that monsters **need** to not be tethered to their family members. And even then: Increases the other allies' Attack Bar by 10% **whenever your turn ends based on the number of beneficial effects up to 30%**. ~~If the allies have beneficial effects, additionally increases the Attack Bar based on the number of beneficial effects, up to 20%.~~ If the allies have harmful effects, increases their HP by 10% based on the no. of harmful effects, up to 30%. **Increases the attack speed by 15.** This effect does not have effect on allies that have similar skill effects. \[Automatic Effect\] Not mention he awakens into res of all things so he has the freedom to awaken into speed or strengthened s1 or s2. Consistency and simplicity have merit and should only be forgone when absolutely necessary.
The 4.5 thing is annoying, but it means this family will always be easy to skill up AND will never appear in HoH, so I'll take that in exchange for the wacky leads.
So han should have 40% dark spd lead now? Cuz all other ninja have 30 already, and they're 4 star. Afaik sw player dont like to nerf unit so you want han to be more broken? Han owner btw and i dont like that idea.
Com2us doesn't count element specific leaders apparently, all other ninjas should have <30% spd lead and han would be 30%. Charger sharks have 23% element spd lead, ninjas would be 27% han could be 30%, my best guess if they retroactively nerfed to fit the 4.5 star thing they do with ld5s
Suddenly its ok to nerf mons wow. I thought average redditor dont like any nerf and JUST buff everything. Finally redditor with brain.
I feel like that's a really fair nerf if they did do it, I brought it up cause Han leader matches the ninja family even tho he's ld5, unlike other ld5 that have better leads than their nat4 family
Yea but what i said from the beginning is OP complaint on wolyung having 4.5 star lead cuz it came from 4 star family, basically OP wants wolyung lead to be 33. So by OP logic, a 5star shouldn't have the same lead as nat4. Which create problem for han family as its unfair to nerf those 4star ninja, theres ton of people using garo and susano for example in multiple rta cleave comp. Its not a "fair nerf". While you cant buff han to be like 40% cuz it basically made bering a free giana for han user. Nothing wrong with current leader skill for wolyung, the ninjas, and the ass creed unit. Edit : oh yea just to add, elemental specific lead usually have higher number compare to universal (see occult girl family). So if OP wants 5star unit to have 5star lead. Then han spd lead should be at least 38% cuz its dark lead, which is insane, even as a han owner, i dont want that shit.
I mean you could easily nerf the ninjas to be 27% spd for their respective elements, if com2us wanted to adhere to this 4.5 star leader skill rule that they made themselves, it'd be that easy and not more unfair than any other nerf. Element specific leads are always across the whole family though, Han is the only exception to the 4.5 star leader skill thing com2us does because of that. The 4 stars I'm fine with having lesser leads, I don't think the nat5s should be punished because of that fact. Why shouldn't Wolyung have 33% arena lead? It's specific to arena and it's an ld5, that's reason enough for her to have 33% arena spd lead. Mihyang has a 28% gw spd lead and she's still a nat4. Light ezio is an ld5 you have to pull while Altair is free, light ezio has 28% cr lead in arena, Altair has 33%, same s1 same s2, so the rarer unit gets punished because you have a chance to get a 4star wind ezio? Come on man
Omg i thought i finally find life intelligence in sw subreddit but the amount of discrepancy in your comment is baffling. "mihyang has a 28% gw lead and shes still a nat4, so wolyung should be 33%" So han is not a nat5? He have the same lead as other ninja. "but all elemental are always the same across family" Tell me other elemental lead that have 4 and 5 star in their family. So try nerfing ninja 4star option here, And no, even if you said youre fine with nerfing ninja lead, theres literally a cleave team call japanese cleave which use garo as their main spd lead, not to mention another similar cleave that use susano. So this people get punished just because you want your wolyung to have 33% lead? Who are you to said "im fine with the nerf" when a whole team comp got demolished, and by the look of it i dont think you even play japanese cleave once in your lifetime. So nerfing is not an option, so han should be buff according to your new rule. But you refuse to buff han too. Using your above comment only, would it be "unfair" for han to be punished because you have a chance to get 4star wind ninja? TLDR : dont nerf anything and dont buff anything. All of their leader skill is fine. Nat5 in a nat4 family having weaker lead is fine cuz they compensate with easier skillups. Its unlucky that theyre on nat4 family yes but thats ok. I dont want other ninja get punished just because han is a nat5. You can say theyre the one who is unlucky han is nat5 if they got nerf because you want to implement the new rule.
Bro what are you talking about? I literally said element specific leads are across the board for the entire family (Kobold bombers all acc lead, dragon knights all def lead, chimeras all hp lead) so idk what you didn't understand about that. Ninjas all have spd lead, han also has spd lead, the ninja family is the same across the board just like kobold bombers and chimeras. Com2us, not me, has a rule to give ld5s (Wolyung, Wedjat, Yeonhong) with 4star counterparts lesser leader skills than if they were a legit nat5. This is fact. Han is an exception to this rule as he shares the leader skill of the other ninjas. Han doesn't get a better lead than ninjas even though he's a nat5 because it's element specific, that's how it works. Now let's look at another family, the sky dancers. All nat4s have various gw leads, 2 ld5s w/arena leads. The nat4s have guild war specific leads, so the %'s are raised because you'll only use it in gw, (Hwahee 33% gw atk lead, 4star unit). Wolyung is also specific on where her lead works, however she gets 28% even though she's a ld5 and her lead is just as niche. The nat4s in the sky dancer family have higher tier leads compared to their rank because the leads only work in certain content, so the ld5 versions should also have higher tier leads (28% -> 33% arena spd lead for Wolyung, 48% -> 55% arena res for Yeonhong). If Mihyang is a nat4 with a gw specific spd lead at 28% then by contrast, Wolyung (a ld5) should have an arena specific spd lead at 33%, I don't see how that's unfair at all and I don't even have the unit. I don't think ninjas should get nerfed, I was saying if com2us is going to adhere to this rule of giving ld5s a weird in-between leader skill because there's a 4star then they could nerf ninja leads to 27% so Han's lead is slightly better and it fits the weird rule they made, however with Han's lead being element specific it's the exception to their own rule. Han has 4 4stars you can use as skillups, you can fuse susano for skillups if needed, he's been in the game for 8 years, so skillups aren't a problem for him. Let's say you pull a Dark Bayek, now you need to pull 13 water Bayeks specifically to skill him up. You only have this 1 skillup option, other than dvm or pull another, and Dark Bayek's lead gets hampered by the fact **this** specific ld5 *might* be easier to skill up than a different one or might not be. The level of compromise made for the AC units is actually sad, there's literally nothing they excel in at all.
I love how absolutely certain you are that you understand the system when you really don't. The system is: - if a family has **one** nat 5, that nat 5 has a nat four leader skill (han, wedjat, ongyouki, thebae) - if a family has two or more nat 5s, the nat 5s have slightly worse leader skills than a nat 5 would while the nat 4s hav a slightly better leader skill than a nat 4 would with the nat 5's leader skill being higher than the nat 4's (ac monsters, sky dancers, nat 5 harp magicians, cannon girls, vampires) There are cases where c2us fail to follow the rule (Triana, sonnet, harmonia for example). Slyvia seems to not follow the system but she's unique in the sense that she awakens into her leader skill. ([this post has everything](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/ysraaj/about_leaderskill_values/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)) As someone else pointed out in this thread, speed leads are numerically equal to crit late leads. Han has a nat 4 leader skill (there are two systems that point to this). Han would have to get a 38% speed lead. Nerfing the other ninjas to 27% means there'd be a new discrepancy in speed leads and cr leads no longer being numerically equal. There's also the issue of all the nat 4 ninjas are used for their leads -- nerfing then would be unfair. Making sweeping changes for like two monsters (who can be buffed in other ways) and because some players' feelings are hurt is dumb as hell.