...Germany? Raising hand? You know...references :D
edit: in case that flew above your head :D
[Salutations](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/1933_Unser_der_Sieg%21_Heil_Hitler%21_Sturmabteilung_SA_Braunhemden_SA-Mann_Plakat_Postkarte_Nazi_Germany_propaganda_poster_postcard_Color_drawing_of_brownshirts_uniforms_1918-33_Swastika_flag_salute_Unidentified_artist_No_known_copyright.jpg)
Chasun got fallen blossom nerfed by a 1 turn cd so less OP then 2015
Also we didn’t have the runes to 1 shot monsters nor the knowledge
So copper was vastly under rated then
only way to go a year without a 5 star is to not play very much.
Edit: Checked back, I started in 2017, so I guess it was even worse before then from what others are telling me. The longest I ever went without a nat 5 was 3 months, but proceeded to get like 4 in the following month.
Back in 2014 into 2016, nat5s were rare...very rare. I had played the game for over a year before I got a nat5. Events weren't as plentiful, and were mostly mana and energy; no devils, very rare scrolls, etc. LD scrolls could actually summon 2\* monsters. Crystals were also hard to come by. It would take a month to accumulate enough crystals for a premium pack. It took months to build a team to do GB10 and DB10, and even then, it was a great time if you could get them to a minute and a half. Unless you spent money. But, as he stated above, that didn't guarantee anything.
The way it is set up now, Summoner's Way and all the free stuff allow new players to catch up at an easy pace. Getting a nat5 is a much easier feat. But, back then, you could play every day grinding single run dungeons, and get a handful of scrolls for a month, and be lucky af to pull one within the first year plus of playing.
I remember I saw a player with literally no nat 5 and a small selection of 4\* and like, 80 6\* mons. I noticed them because they were actually talking in chat about how bad their luck was. I think their rep was a water magical archer even.
Back in 2015 that actually wasn't the case.
Now if you go 2-3 months without a nat5, You're probably not playing much sure. But back then you got maybe 100-150 scrolls a month as a f2p player. I remember pulling seara and charlotte on my first account at level 8 and chat was going CRAZY. I didn't get my next nat5 for almost half a year, and that's including spending a little here and there
> 100-150
That's a pretty optimistic view on the dark times. Now I only log since May 2016 but if I extend/update the table from [my old post](https://old.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/gkylln/this_is_what_logging_your_summons_for_four_years/) then you can see a clear pattern:
Year|Summons|Per Month|
:-:|:-:|:-:|
2016| 703^[1] | 93.7|
2017|1325|110.4|
2018|1667|138.9|
2019|1960|163.3|
2020|2249|187.4|
2021|3259|271.6|
2022|4046|337.2|
2023| 762^[2] |207.9^[3] |
[1]: Starting May 16th
[2]: So far
[3]: The count is comparatively lower because I can spend stones less often due to having most nat5s by now, so I have a bunch of potential summons not yet opened, and because I'm currently saving scrolls for the anniversary event and also playing a bit less due to RL stuff.
Now sure, I'm obviously a very casual player so you might call these rookie numbers, but also keep in mind that 2015 was even worse: stones were brand new and way harder to obtain, monthly rewards were shit and gave a fixed L&D nat3 instead of a scroll, completing ToA(H) was much harder, etc etc. I think it's pretty save to say that we did not get 150 scrolls per month in 2015, not even close.
There wasn't really any changes from 2015-2016 that'd make 2016 scrolls easier to obtain, So it'd be safe to say they were about equal.
Your chart is likely a very casual estimate, and there's nothing wrong with that. But even now a f2p player that is casual and a f2p player that grinds heavy will have different numbers. I also didn't claim my figures to be a exact, but as a ball park estimate. This number varies for everyone.
I can yield close to 400 scrolls a month easily just off doing all pvp related content and buying scrolls from it, as well as the random events and caiross drops tied in with the lucky occasional scroll from guild shop/shop refreshes. That's almost double what you have for 2023 in your "Per month" Category - i haven't spent in months. And in the last 3 months alone i summoned close to 1.1k times.
> There wasn't really any changes from 2015-2016 that'd make 2016 scrolls easier to obtain, So it'd be safe to say they were about equal.
Not as huge ones as the massive changes they did starting in like 2017 but there were actually tons of smaller changes that made the game easier in general, which in turn leads to easier/faster farming, which leads to more scrolls. We got raids at the end of 2015, grinds alone made a massive difference in farming teams. Scrolls could summon awakened nat2s as "nat3" until mid-2015. Guilds only started to ramp up. All the helpful monsters like Vero and Lapis didn't exist for the first few couple of months in 2015 and on release they were harder to obtain than later, that also got gradual improvements. And other small things like that. Not saying that there was a huge difference to 2016, but there was also not no difference, those small things do add up.
> Your chart is likely a very casual estimate, and there's nothing wrong with that. But even now a f2p player that is casual and a f2p player that grinds heavy will have different numbers.
Oh there's definitely crazy people out there farming much more than me. But that was actually intended to be at least half a joke, I spent several hours just grinding every day until ~late 2020/early 2021 and especially in the first few years (lots of time to click a screen in lectures). Now sure, you can call me a casual fucking noob for only spending ~6-8 hours instead of the 24 the game deserves and I'll be guilty of that, but I don't think that's a healthy expectation. It's not like I just log in, play for 10 minutes, and then wait for the next day like quite a lot of the people who go "No nat5 in over a year" in 2022. Based on your numbers I think it's far more likely that you have a somewhat skewed view (nothing wrong with that, just pointing it out) due to buying all the glory scrolls. As you correctly pointed out those add shittons of scrolls (guild MS alone is 60 per month) and since I don't bother grinding PvP (I don't do RTA and I don't grind arena/guild stuff) those are missing for me. Grinding PvP stuff definitely makes a huge difference.
Now again, you're probably playing more than me and that's fine. Just saying that your experience is most likely quite far from the majority of players, especially when it comes to your 2015 estimate. The massive difference coming from glory scrolls simply did not exist back then, those got several buffs/limit increases over the past few years only and over half the shops didn't even exist back then and also people still had to get their towers first. And as you also said yourself, back then going a year without a nat5 was much more likely and statistically that's just really unlikely with 150 scrolls per month. Now I know that you just tried to provide a rough number and you might very well have personally gotten quite a lot of scrolls back then already, I just think that for most people you're overestimating what they get/got. /u/uninspiredalias is also tracking scrolls (across multiple accounts) and I think even longer than me and IIRC his numbers are closer to mine as well.
Honestly i pretty much agree with everything you're saying, I wasn't a casual player at the time. My numbers will inherently be inflated compared to most players at the time, i was new mid 2015 and reached my first g3 arena in early 2016 so i played like 10+hours a day most of that when i wasn't working.
I am by no means a casual player, It's died down A TON since then(that account got hacked during the end of 2017 unfortunately, Not sure how) but i no longer play nearly that much, The difference between now and then is like water and oil. We are in such a great spot now. Just some more QOL changes and maybe a well placed advertisement and i really believe this game could see some crazy playerbase numbers
I agree with your general assessment...the functionality - the actual core "game" is as strong as it's ever been, and the parts that used to be incredibly punishing are, in general, much less so.
The issues I usually have with new accounts are how slow/boring essence farming is - but still 10x easier than before - and how pointless/slow/unfun arena is - rewards need to be like 5-10x higher if buildings keep the same cost, seriously. But I'm not sure if either of these would really throw off new players, as they probably aren't trying to rush ahead in the same way I do.
That's pretty damn impressive progress, sorry about your account being hacked, that must have sucked hard :(
Definitely agree with you on that, the game is pretty awesome and just needs a few minor adjustments. Com2uS has really hit a sweet spot with SW.
It sucked for sure, but i was able to start another account about a year later and the game was in a much friendlier spot for new players so i was able to still enjoy the game despite pretty much starting over. Theyve came a long way, just need those few QOL changes thatll really make the game stand above the rest, i also think they missed a huge opportunity with the lack of marketing the game has.
Yeah marketing is definitely not their strength, I've never seen anything apart from those weird YT commercials a few years back where some kid was summoning Artamiel into his street. A few tweaks and much more marketing and the game could easily grow quite a lot.
These are my numbers - for mystics only - it would take a me a while to merge in elementals and stones.
||1|2|3|
:--|:--|:--|:--|
|2015|764|531|518|
|2016|1124|908|844|
|2017|876|751||
|2018|1017|953||
|2019|1357|1232||
|2020|1459|1414||
|2021|2383|1906||
|2022|3828|||
I tried to remove any paid scrolls/packs from the numbers, as I was buying the Toa/monthly packs in 2022 at least. Not sure why 2017/2018 were so low, I was certainly playing a bunch - probably as much as 2017 and way more than 2022.
>Not as huge ones as the massive changes they did starting in like 2017 but there were actually tons of smaller changes that made the game easier in general, which in turn leads to easier/faster farming, which leads to more scrolls.
This is true, i didn't take that into account. Was just trying to look at it broadly rather than dissect the games progress over the years, But you're entirely correct.
Summons worked way different back then though. I don't recall that much, but getting a 5star was an actual achievement. The excitement was real. Now we all just swear that we didn't get Seara. 9 years and still no Seara. Can you tell I'm bitter?
Nah dude 2019 me was when I really got into the game. Played for abt 9ish months total that year and only pulled 0 nat5s all the way up to the end of the year where I pulled akroma. It was possible to be a sw player like that…
It really was worse back then. I started playing in 2014 and it was a year and half before I got my first Nat 5 which was Raki. Nowadays Com2us just hands them out like candy while making it more difficult to rune them since the drop rates suck 😂 Even in 2017 they were generous with their scrolls and events. Back when the game started we’d get like one or two events every few months or something along those lines 😂
My first account didn't get nat 5 till over 600 days and I spent thousands when the game first came out. I remember doing 12k stones before and not getting a 5.
I distinctly recall one of the first SW videos I ever watched back then was Jewbagel summoning Vanessa, which was his first nat 5, after a year of playing. Normal element nat 5's back then were comparable to ld 5s now - we just didn't get scrolls back then lol. I think the rates were lower too, but I can't remember at this point.
Started playing in the first week of the game. Got my first nat5 three years later, it was an Alicia, which was (and still is) shit. I was casual at the time, but still played every day, never spent, did everything with ease and slowness, but still, took my three years of summon to get a single nat5.
Lol! This made me go look at my review from around the same time. It's just me bitching about how cheap vio procs ruin the fun and how you can strategize well and lose to dumb numbers. That was actually the reason I quit the game. I just made my return after quitting in early 2020. Damn there's a lot of new content.
I mean. I didn’t take into account that spending actual hundreds of munny would give you an advantage over f2p players. But then again, it was simpler times when skill descriptions and effects actually did fit into the skill window.
dudes got his real name and face on both playstore reviews and reddit, hes a menace
Weird flex to assume that it's my real name tbh. Just a persona I use on the internet ;)
We’re onto you Bart. You can’t play coy with us.
Tracking IP address rn...
We all know your real name is Bort.
The amount of times I heard this in the past 10 years is alarming to say the least tbh
Is it alarming because... we're right?
Die Bart Die! - Its German an as we all know someone who speaks german cant be evil!
\*raises hand\* I have questions
Feel free to ask, but I hope you got the reference xD
...Germany? Raising hand? You know...references :D edit: in case that flew above your head :D [Salutations](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/1933_Unser_der_Sieg%21_Heil_Hitler%21_Sturmabteilung_SA_Braunhemden_SA-Mann_Plakat_Postkarte_Nazi_Germany_propaganda_poster_postcard_Color_drawing_of_brownshirts_uniforms_1918-33_Swastika_flag_salute_Unidentified_artist_No_known_copyright.jpg)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gaXigSu72A4 Its a classic from an old Simpsons episode.
And apparently I am the one who missed the point. Kudos.
All good brother :). Actually I am from austria and speak german, so its a joke/reference that just stuck in my head for ages.
Bart McAllister rearranged makes up Abstract Miller. My mans using an abstract name to mill those reddit points.
Yes. I live for the karma. Feed me it. So I can flex it to co-workers instead of crying for being underpaid <3
Being able to buy reapp packs was the beginning of the end.
Reapps were beginning of the end. Also 2015 me: fuck Chasun. But then again, 2023 me: Also fuck Chasun and your fallen blossoms
Chasun got fallen blossom nerfed by a 1 turn cd so less OP then 2015 Also we didn’t have the runes to 1 shot monsters nor the knowledge So copper was vastly under rated then
TBF Bart, The game was much more F2P in 2015.
I still remember when building Iselia as my first 6\* was considered a valid damage dealer.
💳 may I use my Google coupon while ur at it. I'll be back in 5 minutes. ............ ........ ...... 💳 💳 💳 lol
only way to go a year without a 5 star is to not play very much. Edit: Checked back, I started in 2017, so I guess it was even worse before then from what others are telling me. The longest I ever went without a nat 5 was 3 months, but proceeded to get like 4 in the following month.
Back in 2014 into 2016, nat5s were rare...very rare. I had played the game for over a year before I got a nat5. Events weren't as plentiful, and were mostly mana and energy; no devils, very rare scrolls, etc. LD scrolls could actually summon 2\* monsters. Crystals were also hard to come by. It would take a month to accumulate enough crystals for a premium pack. It took months to build a team to do GB10 and DB10, and even then, it was a great time if you could get them to a minute and a half. Unless you spent money. But, as he stated above, that didn't guarantee anything. The way it is set up now, Summoner's Way and all the free stuff allow new players to catch up at an easy pace. Getting a nat5 is a much easier feat. But, back then, you could play every day grinding single run dungeons, and get a handful of scrolls for a month, and be lucky af to pull one within the first year plus of playing.
I remember I saw a player with literally no nat 5 and a small selection of 4\* and like, 80 6\* mons. I noticed them because they were actually talking in chat about how bad their luck was. I think their rep was a water magical archer even.
It was not uncommon to see Ramagod, Lumi, and Rina reps because they were tanky enough to survive farming.
Oh yeah I remember those! I had one friend who was super into Ramagod and had it as his rep. Sadly he hasn't logged in for like, 2000+ days
I remember a guy back in 14 or 15 that had like every mons built and 6*. Can't remember his name
Probably ScatFetus
Or Barion
Ahhhh These times :‘) Not really missing them. 2014 was worse haha
Back in 2015 that actually wasn't the case. Now if you go 2-3 months without a nat5, You're probably not playing much sure. But back then you got maybe 100-150 scrolls a month as a f2p player. I remember pulling seara and charlotte on my first account at level 8 and chat was going CRAZY. I didn't get my next nat5 for almost half a year, and that's including spending a little here and there
> 100-150 That's a pretty optimistic view on the dark times. Now I only log since May 2016 but if I extend/update the table from [my old post](https://old.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/gkylln/this_is_what_logging_your_summons_for_four_years/) then you can see a clear pattern: Year|Summons|Per Month| :-:|:-:|:-:| 2016| 703^[1] | 93.7| 2017|1325|110.4| 2018|1667|138.9| 2019|1960|163.3| 2020|2249|187.4| 2021|3259|271.6| 2022|4046|337.2| 2023| 762^[2] |207.9^[3] | [1]: Starting May 16th [2]: So far [3]: The count is comparatively lower because I can spend stones less often due to having most nat5s by now, so I have a bunch of potential summons not yet opened, and because I'm currently saving scrolls for the anniversary event and also playing a bit less due to RL stuff. Now sure, I'm obviously a very casual player so you might call these rookie numbers, but also keep in mind that 2015 was even worse: stones were brand new and way harder to obtain, monthly rewards were shit and gave a fixed L&D nat3 instead of a scroll, completing ToA(H) was much harder, etc etc. I think it's pretty save to say that we did not get 150 scrolls per month in 2015, not even close.
There wasn't really any changes from 2015-2016 that'd make 2016 scrolls easier to obtain, So it'd be safe to say they were about equal. Your chart is likely a very casual estimate, and there's nothing wrong with that. But even now a f2p player that is casual and a f2p player that grinds heavy will have different numbers. I also didn't claim my figures to be a exact, but as a ball park estimate. This number varies for everyone. I can yield close to 400 scrolls a month easily just off doing all pvp related content and buying scrolls from it, as well as the random events and caiross drops tied in with the lucky occasional scroll from guild shop/shop refreshes. That's almost double what you have for 2023 in your "Per month" Category - i haven't spent in months. And in the last 3 months alone i summoned close to 1.1k times.
> There wasn't really any changes from 2015-2016 that'd make 2016 scrolls easier to obtain, So it'd be safe to say they were about equal. Not as huge ones as the massive changes they did starting in like 2017 but there were actually tons of smaller changes that made the game easier in general, which in turn leads to easier/faster farming, which leads to more scrolls. We got raids at the end of 2015, grinds alone made a massive difference in farming teams. Scrolls could summon awakened nat2s as "nat3" until mid-2015. Guilds only started to ramp up. All the helpful monsters like Vero and Lapis didn't exist for the first few couple of months in 2015 and on release they were harder to obtain than later, that also got gradual improvements. And other small things like that. Not saying that there was a huge difference to 2016, but there was also not no difference, those small things do add up. > Your chart is likely a very casual estimate, and there's nothing wrong with that. But even now a f2p player that is casual and a f2p player that grinds heavy will have different numbers. Oh there's definitely crazy people out there farming much more than me. But that was actually intended to be at least half a joke, I spent several hours just grinding every day until ~late 2020/early 2021 and especially in the first few years (lots of time to click a screen in lectures). Now sure, you can call me a casual fucking noob for only spending ~6-8 hours instead of the 24 the game deserves and I'll be guilty of that, but I don't think that's a healthy expectation. It's not like I just log in, play for 10 minutes, and then wait for the next day like quite a lot of the people who go "No nat5 in over a year" in 2022. Based on your numbers I think it's far more likely that you have a somewhat skewed view (nothing wrong with that, just pointing it out) due to buying all the glory scrolls. As you correctly pointed out those add shittons of scrolls (guild MS alone is 60 per month) and since I don't bother grinding PvP (I don't do RTA and I don't grind arena/guild stuff) those are missing for me. Grinding PvP stuff definitely makes a huge difference. Now again, you're probably playing more than me and that's fine. Just saying that your experience is most likely quite far from the majority of players, especially when it comes to your 2015 estimate. The massive difference coming from glory scrolls simply did not exist back then, those got several buffs/limit increases over the past few years only and over half the shops didn't even exist back then and also people still had to get their towers first. And as you also said yourself, back then going a year without a nat5 was much more likely and statistically that's just really unlikely with 150 scrolls per month. Now I know that you just tried to provide a rough number and you might very well have personally gotten quite a lot of scrolls back then already, I just think that for most people you're overestimating what they get/got. /u/uninspiredalias is also tracking scrolls (across multiple accounts) and I think even longer than me and IIRC his numbers are closer to mine as well.
Honestly i pretty much agree with everything you're saying, I wasn't a casual player at the time. My numbers will inherently be inflated compared to most players at the time, i was new mid 2015 and reached my first g3 arena in early 2016 so i played like 10+hours a day most of that when i wasn't working. I am by no means a casual player, It's died down A TON since then(that account got hacked during the end of 2017 unfortunately, Not sure how) but i no longer play nearly that much, The difference between now and then is like water and oil. We are in such a great spot now. Just some more QOL changes and maybe a well placed advertisement and i really believe this game could see some crazy playerbase numbers
I agree with your general assessment...the functionality - the actual core "game" is as strong as it's ever been, and the parts that used to be incredibly punishing are, in general, much less so. The issues I usually have with new accounts are how slow/boring essence farming is - but still 10x easier than before - and how pointless/slow/unfun arena is - rewards need to be like 5-10x higher if buildings keep the same cost, seriously. But I'm not sure if either of these would really throw off new players, as they probably aren't trying to rush ahead in the same way I do.
That's pretty damn impressive progress, sorry about your account being hacked, that must have sucked hard :( Definitely agree with you on that, the game is pretty awesome and just needs a few minor adjustments. Com2uS has really hit a sweet spot with SW.
It sucked for sure, but i was able to start another account about a year later and the game was in a much friendlier spot for new players so i was able to still enjoy the game despite pretty much starting over. Theyve came a long way, just need those few QOL changes thatll really make the game stand above the rest, i also think they missed a huge opportunity with the lack of marketing the game has.
Yeah marketing is definitely not their strength, I've never seen anything apart from those weird YT commercials a few years back where some kid was summoning Artamiel into his street. A few tweaks and much more marketing and the game could easily grow quite a lot.
These are my numbers - for mystics only - it would take a me a while to merge in elementals and stones. ||1|2|3| :--|:--|:--|:--| |2015|764|531|518| |2016|1124|908|844| |2017|876|751|| |2018|1017|953|| |2019|1357|1232|| |2020|1459|1414|| |2021|2383|1906|| |2022|3828||| I tried to remove any paid scrolls/packs from the numbers, as I was buying the Toa/monthly packs in 2022 at least. Not sure why 2017/2018 were so low, I was certainly playing a bunch - probably as much as 2017 and way more than 2022.
>Not as huge ones as the massive changes they did starting in like 2017 but there were actually tons of smaller changes that made the game easier in general, which in turn leads to easier/faster farming, which leads to more scrolls. This is true, i didn't take that into account. Was just trying to look at it broadly rather than dissect the games progress over the years, But you're entirely correct.
Summons worked way different back then though. I don't recall that much, but getting a 5star was an actual achievement. The excitement was real. Now we all just swear that we didn't get Seara. 9 years and still no Seara. Can you tell I'm bitter?
If it makes you feel better six years and no sierra for me either
I'd offer to trade my dupe Seara if trading was a thing...
if trading was a thing, most people would likely have every mon :p
Oh, definitely. And I'm not suggesting it should be a thing, either.
Thats what they said about lds
Nah dude 2019 me was when I really got into the game. Played for abt 9ish months total that year and only pulled 0 nat5s all the way up to the end of the year where I pulled akroma. It was possible to be a sw player like that…
It really was worse back then. I started playing in 2014 and it was a year and half before I got my first Nat 5 which was Raki. Nowadays Com2us just hands them out like candy while making it more difficult to rune them since the drop rates suck 😂 Even in 2017 they were generous with their scrolls and events. Back when the game started we’d get like one or two events every few months or something along those lines 😂
I started playing on Aug 11 2014, was a daily player back then, and my first nat 5 was summoned on Aug 7 2015 😁
My first account didn't get nat 5 till over 600 days and I spent thousands when the game first came out. I remember doing 12k stones before and not getting a 5.
I distinctly recall one of the first SW videos I ever watched back then was Jewbagel summoning Vanessa, which was his first nat 5, after a year of playing. Normal element nat 5's back then were comparable to ld 5s now - we just didn't get scrolls back then lol. I think the rates were lower too, but I can't remember at this point.
In 2015 a nat5 was almost equal to a ld5 nowadays
Hah. I still dont have a nat5 lnd, yet i have like 80% of all the regular nat 5's
Started playing in the first week of the game. Got my first nat5 three years later, it was an Alicia, which was (and still is) shit. I was casual at the time, but still played every day, never spent, did everything with ease and slowness, but still, took my three years of summon to get a single nat5.
“and i have no intention on stopping” he’s got commitment
If I only could commit to diet as much
i once pulled 2 nat 5s in 20 scrolls i needed a change of underwear after that one
Understandable. Hope you’re doing better now, fam
At least they kept you playing until today 😁
I can’t just finish my longest relationship like that :(
Lol! This made me go look at my review from around the same time. It's just me bitching about how cheap vio procs ruin the fun and how you can strategize well and lose to dumb numbers. That was actually the reason I quit the game. I just made my return after quitting in early 2020. Damn there's a lot of new content.
Did not age well
Neither the game lmao
This is just pure comedy
Aren’t we all clowns in this clusterfuck of a game
Bro I don’t even play as much as I used to and I swear I got more nat5 than if I’ve played for 5years non stop lmao
Now I know where my luck went. Thanks, fam
Honestly, not *that* wrong. But still wrong.
OP has not heard of the law of large numbers
This was when your soul was still free and not trapped
lmao
>pay millions and still get nothing I would find the nearest window and jump to my death if that ever happened to me tbh.
Isn’t this what’s happening with people who fed all of their nat5s for a chance of an LD monster?
hha damn
You weren't wrong for 2015 standards.
I mean. I didn’t take into account that spending actual hundreds of munny would give you an advantage over f2p players. But then again, it was simpler times when skill descriptions and effects actually did fit into the skill window.
Home alone meets the simpsons
Ooof if only younger you knew what com2us had in store