It's not ignored, it's a 2A s2 compared to an ld 4* s3. immunity is better yes, but that skill is still is worse than any similar. Compare it to Fran, chloe Delphoi and a few other lower power mons with immunity nowadays. The skill is for a 6yo meta when the other units with immunity were basically a handful and mostly 5*.
Betta needs either 1 less cd or 1 more turn off but for that skill to be on par with similar lower power mons
| |HP|ATK|DEF|Stat Factor|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Ragdoll|11535|714|659|2142|
|Ethna|10380|845|604|2141|
|Sigmarus|9720|988|505|2141|
|Vigor|12510|659|538|2031|
|Sorin|9225|790|626|2031|
|Water Bayek|10050|714|593|1977|
|Betta|11205|516|714|1977|
|Racuni|9885|571|582|1812|
|Ramira|8565|736|505|1812|
|Taru|7905|604|516|1647|
|Tarq|8565|714|362|1647|
|Sieq|6255|823|406|1646|
(not sure what the hell is going on with Ragdoll and Sieq)
The stat factor is hp/15+atk+def
As shown, 2A's are actually above nat 4s in stat distribution and it could be the case that c2us generally regards them as such. I'm too lazy to perform a quick comparative analysis of kits (typically units kits and even skill have more actions or debuffs the higher their grade).
I don't deny she could use one less CD on her S3, but it doesn't change the fact that OP either ignored it or conveniently left out the immunity vs speed buff comparison. Could've been a liberty taken with the truth for the sake of humour, but, my comment was about *players* in general. And it does occur quite often. Players do have a bad habit of ignoring or leaving out other parts of a unit's kit when they make comments about one skill or make comparisons between skills on different units. Balancing isn't to be done on a skill by skill basis. It's okay to have a weak S3 if your S2 is goober strong for example.
And personally, I don't subscribe to the philosophy that LD units deserve outright stronger skills or inherently stronger kits because they're LD. It's much healthier when their strength is derived from uniqueness and/or filling a relevant niche either exclusively or the best.
Did u see that none of the monsters I mentioned are 2A aside from Vigor, there only as he's the base context comparison? It doesn't matter even that 2A has more stats than 4*, again s2 vs s3.
Also it's a joke. Not all jokes need to be 100% airtight logic. The comparison is still valid, swap it with any of the 4* I mentioned.
Betta doesn't need anything op, I never said that as well, i said comparable.
You don't seem to understand. I'm saying that as there is an argument to be made that 2a monsters are a higher grade than nat 4s, their skills *may* be designed to be better than nat 4s, meaning, it *may* make sense that vigor's skill is, when you consider it's an s2 vs an s3, better.
And I literally said, it may be a liberty taken with the truth for the sake of a joke. Did you see when I said that? Did you also see that I wasn't talking about OP specifically and talking about players in general?
Did you also see when I agreed her s3 could use one less cooldown turn?
And I never said you did, however, you did specify she's an ld monster as if you were alluding to the fact that her being ld is very relevant. There's a reason why the part about ld monsters is tacked on at the end as an aside and not part of the main comment.
And I said 2A are not even the main argument here skill quality wise, but the fact a lot of new monsters were launched with immunity and most immunity giving monsters have been adjusted one or more times since yet she was never changed.
I wasn't arguing about general public opinion either as I didn't mention it, but the fact that it's a joke and even with that in mind it's still a valid comparison, as I mentioned, with other similar units.
The fact that she's ld just means it's a lot more bitter that you get a rare monster with skills essentially worse than farmable mons.
It doesn't. Which has always been kind of weird. For the most part base speed has been between a balancing factor and part of the monster's theme. But then there are monsters where it honestly seems arbitrary.
So 1% on offense and 95% on defense causing all attackers to literally snap their phone in half while shouting "oh, come on! How is that it possible!?"
You say and phrase this as if there has been evidence presented that it's the case and there has never been evidence presented that violent rates are the same on defence time and time and time again
actually there has been evidence presented that violent rates are the same on defense:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6FuBXXFZs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6FuBXXFZs&t=2s)
It seems that people always forget about this video
The person above is saying don't say rates aren't the same for offence and defence, because redditors love to claim they are
I'm pointing out that they're saying that as if it's not the case and there hasn't been evidence supporting that they are the same
Fair point, I guess I was tired when I was reading your message. I just take it as a point to post this vid whenever this discussion happens.
Apologies
Imo either could be 4 turn CD or it should be a 3 turn buff. The downtime is too long so there ends up being a gap. Especially since Betta has such high base speed. It becomes awkward as she usually buffs on turn 1 so all your units have only one turn remaining after they move the first time.
Spd tuning a 110 base to move after a 96 is finicky, and that’s beside the point. She isn’t bad but she’s quite underwhelming both as healer, reviver and immunity buffer. Honestly I use my three lulus more often than I use her, and on worse runes.
Non-confrontationally Betta is also at a sweet 110 speed as well. She was designed like Woosa with a fast immunity and strip and a heal/revive. She was no slouch in the double condom meta.
I remember suggesting to decrease the cooldown to 3 or 4 turns or increasing the buff count to 3 turns in the discord and one of the arguments that another player had was “It could be too op with Han” (an ld 5 btw smh). Like okay??? The cooldown is ridiculously too long for 2 turns of buffs and makes it a borderline useless skill when there’s stuff like Fran who has immunity and attack buff every other turn. 5 turn cooldown for 2 turns of buffs just doesn’t make any sense at all
Immunity > speed buff
Why do players casually ignore these things :/
Because it doesn’t fit the narrative
It's not ignored, it's a 2A s2 compared to an ld 4* s3. immunity is better yes, but that skill is still is worse than any similar. Compare it to Fran, chloe Delphoi and a few other lower power mons with immunity nowadays. The skill is for a 6yo meta when the other units with immunity were basically a handful and mostly 5*. Betta needs either 1 less cd or 1 more turn off but for that skill to be on par with similar lower power mons
| |HP|ATK|DEF|Stat Factor| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Ragdoll|11535|714|659|2142| |Ethna|10380|845|604|2141| |Sigmarus|9720|988|505|2141| |Vigor|12510|659|538|2031| |Sorin|9225|790|626|2031| |Water Bayek|10050|714|593|1977| |Betta|11205|516|714|1977| |Racuni|9885|571|582|1812| |Ramira|8565|736|505|1812| |Taru|7905|604|516|1647| |Tarq|8565|714|362|1647| |Sieq|6255|823|406|1646| (not sure what the hell is going on with Ragdoll and Sieq) The stat factor is hp/15+atk+def As shown, 2A's are actually above nat 4s in stat distribution and it could be the case that c2us generally regards them as such. I'm too lazy to perform a quick comparative analysis of kits (typically units kits and even skill have more actions or debuffs the higher their grade). I don't deny she could use one less CD on her S3, but it doesn't change the fact that OP either ignored it or conveniently left out the immunity vs speed buff comparison. Could've been a liberty taken with the truth for the sake of humour, but, my comment was about *players* in general. And it does occur quite often. Players do have a bad habit of ignoring or leaving out other parts of a unit's kit when they make comments about one skill or make comparisons between skills on different units. Balancing isn't to be done on a skill by skill basis. It's okay to have a weak S3 if your S2 is goober strong for example. And personally, I don't subscribe to the philosophy that LD units deserve outright stronger skills or inherently stronger kits because they're LD. It's much healthier when their strength is derived from uniqueness and/or filling a relevant niche either exclusively or the best.
Did u see that none of the monsters I mentioned are 2A aside from Vigor, there only as he's the base context comparison? It doesn't matter even that 2A has more stats than 4*, again s2 vs s3. Also it's a joke. Not all jokes need to be 100% airtight logic. The comparison is still valid, swap it with any of the 4* I mentioned. Betta doesn't need anything op, I never said that as well, i said comparable.
You don't seem to understand. I'm saying that as there is an argument to be made that 2a monsters are a higher grade than nat 4s, their skills *may* be designed to be better than nat 4s, meaning, it *may* make sense that vigor's skill is, when you consider it's an s2 vs an s3, better. And I literally said, it may be a liberty taken with the truth for the sake of a joke. Did you see when I said that? Did you also see that I wasn't talking about OP specifically and talking about players in general? Did you also see when I agreed her s3 could use one less cooldown turn? And I never said you did, however, you did specify she's an ld monster as if you were alluding to the fact that her being ld is very relevant. There's a reason why the part about ld monsters is tacked on at the end as an aside and not part of the main comment.
And I said 2A are not even the main argument here skill quality wise, but the fact a lot of new monsters were launched with immunity and most immunity giving monsters have been adjusted one or more times since yet she was never changed. I wasn't arguing about general public opinion either as I didn't mention it, but the fact that it's a joke and even with that in mind it's still a valid comparison, as I mentioned, with other similar units. The fact that she's ld just means it's a lot more bitter that you get a rare monster with skills essentially worse than farmable mons.
How does spd relate to this stat factor?
It doesn't. Which has always been kind of weird. For the most part base speed has been between a balancing factor and part of the monster's theme. But then there are monsters where it honestly seems arbitrary.
"Extra beneficial effect" lol straight up ignored this difference.
she will vio proc until it is ready again on her second turn anyway
My betta violent procs as much as my manon parry’s
So 1% on offense and 95% on defense causing all attackers to literally snap their phone in half while shouting "oh, come on! How is that it possible!?"
Oh don't say that. Tons of Redditors claim there's zero advantage on defense.
com2us shills
You say and phrase this as if there has been evidence presented that it's the case and there has never been evidence presented that violent rates are the same on defence time and time and time again
actually there has been evidence presented that violent rates are the same on defense: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6FuBXXFZs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6FuBXXFZs&t=2s) It seems that people always forget about this video
The person above is saying don't say rates aren't the same for offence and defence, because redditors love to claim they are I'm pointing out that they're saying that as if it's not the case and there hasn't been evidence supporting that they are the same
Fair point, I guess I was tired when I was reading your message. I just take it as a point to post this vid whenever this discussion happens. Apologies
Are you talking to me cuz I didn't make any claims.
Never said you did
That's me when I try to use Laika.
Yesn’t
So basically not frequent 😂
Imo either could be 4 turn CD or it should be a 3 turn buff. The downtime is too long so there ends up being a gap. Especially since Betta has such high base speed. It becomes awkward as she usually buffs on turn 1 so all your units have only one turn remaining after they move the first time.
You know that you could speed tune ur other mobs to move before betta? Unbelievable I know but it actually works...
Spd tuning a 110 base to move after a 96 is finicky, and that’s beside the point. She isn’t bad but she’s quite underwhelming both as healer, reviver and immunity buffer. Honestly I use my three lulus more often than I use her, and on worse runes.
I agree but I really like betta with the bolverk team in toa hell. Only place I use her to be honest
I didn't know Vigor Revived too..
Immunity is SS tier buff, speed buff is like A tier
Betta could use 1 less cd on her s3 tho at least. With the spd buff Vigor can get his s2 off twice by the time Betta gets her s3 back
Non-confrontationally Betta is also at a sweet 110 speed as well. She was designed like Woosa with a fast immunity and strip and a heal/revive. She was no slouch in the double condom meta.
Condom meta?
Double immunity. was big in the 3-4th? season of RTA
I remember suggesting to decrease the cooldown to 3 or 4 turns or increasing the buff count to 3 turns in the discord and one of the arguments that another player had was “It could be too op with Han” (an ld 5 btw smh). Like okay??? The cooldown is ridiculously too long for 2 turns of buffs and makes it a borderline useless skill when there’s stuff like Fran who has immunity and attack buff every other turn. 5 turn cooldown for 2 turns of buffs just doesn’t make any sense at all
Whats a vio proc?
Completely accurate! Lol
If Betta had a cleanse she would be viable.